November 21, 2023 • 55 mins
This week, we bring you the first ever live recording of You and Me Both before a sold-out audience at Symphony Space in New York City. Hillary was joined by singer, actor, and three time Tony Award winner Patti LuPone, while writer and comedian Amber Ruffin served as MC.
Patti is best known for her roles in the Broadway productions of “Company”, “Gypsy”, “Sweeney Todd”, “Anything Goes”, and “Evita”, among others. She’s also appeared in many films and television shows, including, most recently, Beau Is Afraid, and the forthcoming Marvel miniseries Agatha: Coven of Chaos. She’s currently putting together a new concert: “Patti LuPone: A Life in Notes”. Patti and Hillary talk about her early music education on Long Island and at Julliard, the challenges of performing in “Evita”, and why these days you will find her everywhere but on Broadway, as she seeks out new theatrical experiences as a performer and theatergoer. Together with Hillary, she laughs, she cries, and then she sings!
Event MC Amber Ruffin is an Emmy and WGA Award nominated writer and performer for NBC’s “Late Night with Seth Meyers” and her own “The Amber Ruffin Show.” She and her sister, Lacey, co-authored the New York Times bestseller You’ll Never Believe What Happened to Lacey: Crazy Stories of Racism and The World Record Book of Racist Stories, and they now co-host the podcast, The Amber & Lacey, Lacey & Amber Show! Amber is also writing a revival of the musical “The Wiz” which began touring America this fall and lands on Broadway in the spring of 2024. She joined Hillary and Patti for an audience Q&A.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to a very special episode of You and Me Both.
You know, just about a week ago, I had the
pleasure of taping our first ever live show in front
of a standing room only audience at Symphony Space in
New York City. Joining me was my very special guest,
(00:23):
Patty Lapone, with some help from one of my favorite comedians,
Amber Ruffin, who served as our MC. So buckle up
and enjoy the show. First you'll hear from Amber Ruffin.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
It is my pleasure to introduce a bona fide Broadway legend,
the three time Tony Award winning actress singer Patty Lapone
and former Secretary of State and podcast host Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Whoa, whoa, this is so excited everybody. I want to
thank my friend and one of the most genuinely funny
and wonderful human beings, Amber Ruffin for being with us,
(01:14):
and Amber will be back out later. But I have
to tell you this is like a dream come true
for me. Number one, we are doing the very first
live version of my podcast, You and Me Both, and
I could not think of a better person to do
(01:38):
that with than the one and only Patty LuPone. So
Patty welcome to this sold out audience here at Symphony Space.
And when I was thinking, you heard Amber talking about
(01:58):
how when Chelsea and I did uh gutsy and we
interviewed a lot of gutsy women who embodies gutsy more
than Patty and her spunk, her heart, her talent.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I mean, it is just an amazing combination.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So I'm going to dive right in and I actually
read your autobiography. You certainly have a lot of experience
on stages literally all over. You know, I'm happy to
be here interviewing you, but honestly, it's always been my
dream to sing.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Really yes, well, then.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
You should sing tonight. I an'll have to sing. You
should sing tonight. You should sing tonight. Oh no, Hilary,
you should say Now, I.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Had to make the confession because it would end the
show early, and so we can't do that. But later
you're gonna have the real treat of hearing her saying.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I looked at the pictures in your wonderful autobiography I
read about your life, and I'm so pleased that the
sag after an actors strike has finished so that you
could actually talk about a lot of the things You've done.
(03:21):
It's perfect. Last Frand Dresser. That's all I've got to say.
God bless Frand Dresser. So let's start at the very beginning.
You were born on Long Island, Northport.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Right, Northport.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, So tell us a little bit about your family,
because it turns out that you had a kind of
pool of talent inside your own family.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well, my mother and my father were not at all
in show business. In fact, my father expected us all
to be teachers, and my mother was just a Long
Island housewife. I'm of Italian descent, and when my parents
were growing up, there was a great deal of prejudice.
My grandparents wanted their kids, both sides, the Patties and
the Loupons, to be American. My name is made up
(04:08):
of my parents' last name. My dad's LuPone, my mother's
a Patsy, so they wanted their kids to be American.
So my mother really showed business was the farthest thing
from her mind for her kids. But she was the
one that actually started it by enrolling me in a
dance class. And my brother Bobby saw me in a
huli skirt and fell in love with the hula skirt,
(04:28):
and he started dancing. That's the truth.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, but in fact, didn't you form a group later?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yes, we did, because we had we had first it
was Miss Marguerite Dance Studio. Then it was Donald and
Rosalie Grant Dance Studio. Then it was the Andrea and
Bonnie and their friend Betty Dance Studio and Andre and Bonnie.
Andre was it was French. It was so kind of
exotic and wonderful, and he's a French accent, and he
put my brothers and I did an adagio waltz. My
(04:58):
brother Bobby and I did a tango. We actually competed
at Jones's speech. We won third prize. I still have
the trophy. So it was sort of even though my
mother never she actually was famous as saying to my
brother and I, it upsets me that you flip from
job to job. Yuh mau. Yeah, that's the way it goes.
(05:22):
But because she had no clue about about show business.
But she was the one that introduced us, and Bobby
and I both found our place. Yeah, it was a calling.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
But you know, I actually love that story because it's
a story of a certain time and a certain place
and going from those dance studios and those other opportunities.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
And I love the story that stories you.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Tell about your rather unusual audition for Juilliard. I mean,
here is this young girl, you were still a young girl,
and let it be said you hated school except for music.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Right, No, it's not in hate school. I was lucky
to go to a high school, an elementary, a junior high,
and a high school where music was an integral part
of our education as important as English, math and science.
We all studied and we also with the third grade
was marched into the Ocean Avenue Elementary School. There were
two posters on the wall band instruments orchestra instruments, and
(06:25):
our music teachers said pick an instrument, and we learned
started to learn how to read music in the third
grade and we carry that all the way through high school.
So kudos to the Northport school system for instilling music
into our lives. It breaks my heart that there isn't music.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
It breaks my heart in school.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And you know, when you think about it, because that
used to be the norm, you would have, you know, music,
you might even have music appreciation because I can remember
in third grade we had a music teacher who would
come in and she would introduce us to things we would.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Never have known about.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I remember having her tell us about Aida and playing
from the score.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I'm in third grade. What do I know?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I know nothing about opera, nothing at all.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
But now so many kids don't have that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So it's really important to, you know, remind everybody that
it used to be much more common, and it gave
so many kids a chance to find themselves, find their
talents or enhance what they need.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
And the arts are the soul of a nation.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, you've done your part to try to, you know,
deliver a lot to a lot of happy people. And
I want to go back to this audition at Juilliard
because here you are in high school and you do
have support from some teachers and some other adults in
your life.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And what did you decide to do?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I knew what I was going to do. I actually
I wanted to be a rock and roller because I
grew up in the age of rock and roll. But
whenever I opened my mouths to sing a rock and
roll so I sounded like ethel Mermons, so that wasn't
going to work. But still I'm a closet rocker, so
I knew that my I knew at a very young age.
(08:11):
First of all, I remember when I was sixteen saying,
my career is in Europe, and of course it hasn't been.
But I've always felt more European than American, and I
always wanted my career to be I wanted to sing
in Europe, and I knew what I was going to do.
I knew that I wouldn't end up on the Broadway
musical stage. I just knew that. So it's not that
I hated school. It's just that I knew where my
(08:31):
focus was. And when my junior high school guidance counselor
asked me what I wanted to major in in high school,
I said music. He said, you can't. Why did you
ask me then? And ultimately what I did do was
skip every other class and just went to the music classes.
I don't know how I graduated. They wanted me out,
so that's how I got out, and then Julliard, and
(08:53):
then my mother wanted me to go to a college,
and I went n and I moved to New York City,
found one hundred dollars a month, five floor walk up
railroad flat on East nineteenth and Second Avenue, and got
a job at the Ginza at waitress, and I auditioned
for Broadway musicals. My brother Bobby was attending the dance
(09:16):
division of Juilliard. He said they were starting a drama division,
and I only auditioned for my mother and my brother.
I did not want to go to college, and my
audition was I didn't even care. I picked the most
obvious classical speech, the most obvious contemporary speech. I went
at the time, we were hippie, so I was in
a granny dress with granny shoes and granny glasses. And
(09:37):
when I did my it was Kate's epulogue from Taming
of the Shrew five fi on that threatening on Kim Brown,
dark knot scornful glances at thy lord, thy Master. When
I finished the speech, John Hausman came to the foot
of the stage and said, I don't think that's what
Shakespeare had in mind. And I frankly couldn't care less.
(10:04):
So I did that, and I did Dolly Levi's money
speech from the Matchmaker, and then there was a lot
of silence out there, and of course I couldn't see them.
Then somebody shouted out an improv, which is I got
a rejection letter from the drama division of the Juilliard School.
So I went over to opened up a mailbox, pulled
out the letter, opened it up, read it, throw it
over my shoulder.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's what got me in.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
That's what got me in.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
And didn't you say John Houseman? Did you say John Houseman?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah? Okay, mister Housman, mister Houseman to me, yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
For people, who was John Houseman? Because not everybody remembers well.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
John Housman was a very powerful producer in the Mercury Theater.
He worked with Orson Wells. He was a frightening man
when I met him, and he was the co artistic
director of the initial drama division of the Juilliard School.
The Julliard School used to the Julliard School of Music,
(11:01):
but in order for them to move down to Lincoln Center,
they had to become a complete performing arts swing, so
they had to add a drama division. And Peter Mennon,
who was the president of the Juilliard School of Music,
was not happy that we would now have actors in
the building, and John Housman and Peter Manon did not
get along at all. But John was also frightening to me.
(11:25):
I mean, he was a very imposing man, and he
it was difficult, It was scary to be in that school.
It was a brutal education.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And one of the people who you were in that
school with was someone who I think became your boyfriend
for a number of years, right, Kevin Klein.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yes, yeah, he was my boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And that's all we'll.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Hear about that.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Ladies and gentlemen, moving right along.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
So you get out of Juilliard, but you're still part
of a almost a kind of acting company, right, And
you performed nearly anywhere, anytime anybody asked, and it was
apparently an amazing, full immersion experience for you.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
It was you know, acting as a craft, and a
craft takes training, and we were given the golden opportunity
to hone our craft. We learned what we could at Juilliard,
and Juilliard was our class was sort of the guinea
pigs of the entire acting experience. What they wanted was
(12:42):
to break the psyche down of an American actor and
form the Juilliard actor that could be a classical actor,
a contemporary actor, act in every particular styles, restoration, Jacko Beean,
Elizabethan modern, and be able to work with Russian directors,
French directors, American directors. So in school we were inundated
(13:04):
with technique, not so much acting classes, but a lot
of technique. When John put us on display on our
third year, mal Guso, who was a critic, second string
critic for the New York Times, said, keep this company together,
don't break them up, which was John's q. To keep
this company together. So when we graduated from Juilliard, he
handed us an equity card and a seat on a
dominical bus and we toured the shows that we had
(13:27):
been performing in our third and fourth years with sets
that weren't built to tour. That was the first problem,
and we had been trained to do three shows and
on the fourth the performance fell apart. We didn't know
how to maintain and so we got lessons that no
(13:48):
actors get any more, which is a pity because we
were armed to the teeth with technique, so that when
somebody says something to me, I don't go no, I
can't do that. At a fear, I say, yeah, I
can do that because I want to. Whether I know
how to do it or not, I have the technique
(14:08):
to figure it out. And if I fail, that's okay.
That was the other thing that techniques allows. The technique
allows you to fail because you know, you can figure
something out.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I think that's incredible for people to hear, because it's
not just about acting, it's about life. Yeah, and you know,
being equipped, you know, having skills putting yourself in new situations,
oftentimes difficult ones. You're constantly learning, You're constantly honing who
(14:39):
you are, and for that, you were honing who you
became as an actor. And I read with just almost
open mouthed wonder at how you all were willing to
do anything, take on any challenge, you know, just to
fulfill that craft of being an actor.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
I think it has to be a passion. That's it,
you know. I have tremendous problems with the younger performers
today that say I can't basically or it's too hard.
You have to love it and you have to want
to be challenged in anything. I'm not just talking about theater.
You have to want to be challenged in order to
(15:20):
grow because you love what you're doing and you want
to learn. That's the other thing you want to learn.
And I have to I have to say in many
of these cases, I think maybe that the younger generation
is fearful, and fear is a crippler. And if you
don't admit your fear, embrace your fear, then you will
put up blocks. I can't do that. I won't do that.
(15:43):
My character wouldn't let me do that. What the fuck? Sorry,
my character, you know what I'm saying. So, but and
I think that I think fear. I think we don't
acknowledge fear enough in our own lives or in our
whatever it is we do. And if if we David
Mammott said this, dare to live in the area where
(16:04):
you do not know what's going on. That's the area
you learn. That's the area where things start to pop,
things start to blossom. When you admit you are not
in control.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Then you learn you make yourself vulnerable and you kind
of take a leap of faith, almost, don't you.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
We're taking a quick break. Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Well, the first time I ever saw you on a
stage was in your breakthrough role in Avida. Okay, that
was back in nineteen seventy nine when you played Ava perone. Now,
you were cast over a lot of really big names,
(17:02):
famous names, people.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Who were vying for that role, but they picked you.
Why do you think they picked you?
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I I don't know. Actually, I know that Joanna Merlin
got rest her soul was house casting director. Joanna had
seen us in the acting company, and she knew I
could act. She didn't know whether I could sing, and
so my auditions were primarily whether I could sing. And
(17:32):
I think that Hal would have preferred someone that was unknown.
Prince help Prince would have preferred someone that was unknown
to have the control that he needed for this particular piece.
I mean, I'm just speculating that if there was a
bigger name, there might have been ego clashes. I don't know.
It's a very difficult part. Mandy and I actually because
(17:54):
Mandy went to Juliet as well Patinkin. Mandy and I
were able to connect the dots in because it's only exposition,
and then she did this, and then she did that,
and then she did this, and then she did that
and then she died. You know, It's like, but it's exposition.
There's very little conflict. There's very little drama in that.
So Mandy and I were able to figure out how
to connect the dots and make it dramatic because we
(18:15):
had training as actors and the singing was the thing
that killed me.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
And I.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Said it afterwards, and how I was very upset with
me for saying it. But it was a terrible experience
because I couldn't sing it, and it took such willpower.
I willed my voice every single night, and I couldn't fail.
I would not allow myself to fail. I would figure
this out. This is where I belonged on the Broadway
(18:45):
musical stage. This is a role you can play. You
just have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
And when you're talking about how difficult it was, it's
because of the scoring. It's because of the saying, oh,
you have to hit. It's because of the breathing that
is so hard in between those notes.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Right, it sits, and I'm sure there's singers out there.
It sings in a sopranos passagio. And the passaggio is
if if there's a rubber band and you stretch the
rubber band, the weakest part of the rubber band is
the passaggio in a voice. It goes from chest to head.
It's just the weakest part. That's where all the money
notes were, right in the place where you hit it
(19:24):
wrong one night, it's going to affect your voice for
the rest of there's somebody in the audience now that
was in my castmatee in Ivita, and he can tell
you every story because one of my closest friends in Ivita,
Peter Marinos, who was my support backstage, who was my
support in life with Salma Stretta, because he saw what
I was going through and it was the singing. The
(19:47):
singing is so well. The first time I heard the
concept score with Julie Comington, David Essex and Colin Wilkinson,
this guy hates women. It was, it was, It was
so difficult, and Well gave me a tape with four
speeches from the Casa Rozata and the first two the
voice and this is the comparison. Is only the tone,
(20:10):
you guys, It's only the tone. You know, that pin
that that that Sarah Palin has and Marjorie Taylor Green
has that wason, she had that ping and so you
have to pu you have to imbue the music with
(20:37):
that quality in order to get across. He supports you,
for he loves you, understands you, is one of you,
you know, and those notes the d's, d's, e's, f's,
and g's, and you have to in order to convince
an audience. The death Camisado's an audience. Why she's such
a cult figure, you cannot sing it lyrically. And that
(20:58):
was the thing that was killing me, frankly. And what
happened and I got through New York, Mandy left and
I went, oh. And it was very difficult when Mandy
left because he was my rock. But when I left,
Tyler Gatchell, the general manager, came he said, why are
you leaving? It said, because I've lost my sense of humor.
The role was so controversial. My applause used to dip
(21:21):
after Mandy's and I would go down going it's because
I'm so good in the part. Literally it would dip
out because they were so ambiguous on what they felt
about Ivita Parron. So I had lost my sense of humor.
I got to get out of here. Then the woman
that played Ivita and Australia, and she was talking the
(21:42):
part it knocked every Evita out. It's such a brutal score.
So they called me and they said would you come down?
And I thought, well, I'm never going to get asked
to sing in Australia again? Why not? And then I
said to my general manager Howard Haynes, Are you buying
my performance? I don't know where that came from, and
he said yes. And when I got to Australia, they
(22:04):
were doing everything on the opposite foot, and I went,
I'm not learning what you're doing. You're going to learn
what I'm doing. I didn't have that much time to
go back into a part and a part that scared
me to death, and now I'm in the part with
a brilliant company of just the most wonderful people in
(22:26):
the world, and there was no pressure to prove myself.
I wasn't in New York, one of the cruelest environments
if you were a performer. I wasn't in New York.
I didn't have to deal with critics that were cruel.
David Mammmett said this as well, he doesn't care what
the critics say as long as he knows they love
the theater. I'm not sure our critics have ever loved
(22:49):
the theater.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, this was really revelatory to me because watching you
do this performance, which you know I have vivid memories
of all those years ago, there was no sense at
all how difficult it was.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I mean, you.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Inhabited that role, your arms up in that big v
that you know, just was thrilling. I was not, frankly,
you know, taken by the controversy over her, but I
know that there was a lot of controversy there. And
so you won a Tony Award, how difficult it was,
and you won a Tony Award and you entered Broadway
(23:30):
history and you were literally on your way because people
were just knocked out by your performance and you were too,
but they gave you a Tony for it.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
But it's interesting because you know, there was a time
in our Broadway legacy where leading ladies were celebrated and
then leading men were celebrated, and I was in the
period where leading men were celebrated. Mikael Barishnikov and Gregory
Hines and Mandy and David Agdenstein all went off to Hollywood.
(24:03):
That did not happen for me. It was a controversial character.
It was a character that people were upset was being
glorified on stage because she harbored the Nazis. The Patanistas
harbored the Nazis. And so I had a very difficult
time after I left Dvita getting work.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I wanted people to hear that, because that is not
what anyone would think who loves the theater loves you.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
That it was.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
It was kind of a shock.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I mean, there you were with this Tony Award and
you didn't have the kind of offers that shot to
come now.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
And the thing. The other thing was, I remember, so
leave you Chule as a god Risisol He's a Romanian director,
and I find that I prefer European directors to American
directors because of their concepts, because they come in with
these fantastic ideas that you have to fulfill and leave
you was doing his world famous As You Like It
(25:01):
at the Guthrie and he wanted me to play Rosalind.
And he came to the dressing room with Margot Harley,
who is now one of the producers of the Acting Company,
and he said, will you play Rosalind and As You
Like It? And I said yes. And when I left Ivita,
that was my next role. And I was sort of
admonished by my agents by taking a role at the Guthrie.
(25:27):
What are you doing? And I said, I'm going back
to my roots. I'm going back to what I was
trained for theater. And so I went back to my
roots and it.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
To feel that really, you know, rejuvenated you totally totally yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I mean it's it's it's something that I would I
would do today. Well, for instance, I don't think I'll
ever go back to Broadway because I don't know what
Broadway is anymore. That doesn't mean I won't be on
the stage in New York, but i'll be downtown. I'll
be east of Broadway, I'll be west of Bay, I'll
be north of Broadway, I'll be south of Broadway. But
I don't think Broadway is sustainable anymore. I don't know
(26:08):
where Broadway is. I think it's the circus Las Vegas
and Disneyland, I and nobody. You can't have a show
that runs. I was talking to Amber. You heard me
talking to Amber. Some like it hot closing with those reviews,
What is going on? I don't understand it. So you
can't sustain anything. You cannot sustain something, so it breaks
(26:31):
your heart. And my heart will continue to be broken
because I'll probably be in more bombs, you know, on
more flops whatever, but at least I will be doing something.
I'm here to recommend ja Ja's African hair bray and
Stereophonic to non for profit productions that are what theater
(26:53):
should be in this city.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Oh, you've got a great response to that.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Patty.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So you were talking about how you like European directors.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You've obviously been on Broadway, you've also been in the
West End in London. What's the difference and and and
tell us a little bit about how you compare the experiences.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Well, I don't think there's any difference. I think if
you put on something good, audiences will react the same
way because we're really the same person, you know what
I mean, it's it's and so the Well, I'll tell
you a story when I did lems in London, and
this was Royal Shakespeare Company actors who were doing Shakespeare,
not musicals, and I was the only musical person. I'm
(27:34):
one of my favorite two stories, one of my favorite
John Carrod and Trevor Nunn. We're telling me Nopati when
you sing I dreamed a dream, you tell it to
the audience. I looked at them, What did they think
they brought over here? They said, yeah, I know, yeah,
I know what you're supposed to do. You brought me
over here. But but so Trevor Nunn, it's the first
(27:56):
preview and Trevor Nunn calls us all to the stage
and he goes. You know that the Royal Shakespeare audience
will not be used to a musical, and do not
expect the kind of response you get when you do
Shakespeare at the end of the show, literally, And so
(28:18):
I think, if you give people what they want, or
you move an audience, the audience is transcended. Everybody will
respond the same way. So I find no difference in
London audiences and New York audiences. It's you go to
the theater for a reason and if you are more
than satisfied you you react that way.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Well, you've also done a lot of work in TV
and film.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You know, you had these hilarious cameos in Lena Dunham's
TV series Girls, you were a four hundred and fifty
year old witch in the upcoming Marvel mini series Agatha
Coven of Chaos, and then there's this part as Mona,
(29:05):
a pretty cruel and manipulative mother in the film bo
Is Afraid, which came out this past spring.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So what would it like being in a Marvel mini series?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Well, okay, I have to talk about First of all,
I give up my equity card and I think I'm
sitting in my apartment in at the kitchen table going
I wonder what dire action my career is going to
go in ring Hello, Marvel calling Marvel, called am my agents.
I said, well, she said, talk to these people. Jack
(29:37):
Schaefer created wand Division? Did anybody see WandaVision? Jack is brilliant.
She is the creator of one Division. She has a
three picture deal with Marvel. She spun off Catherine Hahn's
character Agatha. So we are the second installment of this triad,
and we are a coven of witches. And is Catherine
(30:02):
Aubrey Plaza shares Amida Ali on me and Joe Locke
from heart Stoppers. And it was one of the best
experiences I have ever had in my career because of
Jack and Catherine, who were our leaders. It was a
(30:23):
set filled with respect, support, love and trust and we
as women and poor Joe, we as women bonded and
we still are bonded, and we are a coven and
it's coming out next Halloween. We we finished you and
we finished right under the strike. And Jack came into
(30:46):
my trailer and well, basically, when is this coming out?
She said, A year from now? I'm reserving my walker,
but it was an incredible experience, and she's an incredible writer.
So I don't know whether I've had a Marvel experience.
I've had a Jack Schaeffer experience, which is incredible.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah. Well, I have a couple of lightning round questions here.
All right, what is the favorite role you've ever played?
Speaker 4 (31:14):
I don't have one. It's too limiting.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, it's that's that's a fair thing.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeas too limiting.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Are there roles that you've had that you thought should
have won an award that didn't?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Oh? Yeah, every single one of them.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
So so just just just tell us all okay, you've
got what three Tony's? Yeah, okay, what are the other two?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
For one?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
We know it's a Vita, but Madame Rose in.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Gypsy and Evita and Joanne and company jo in a company?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
D Do you have any interest ever directing?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
I don't think I'm smart enough to direct, I don't
think i'm fond enough to direct, and I don't think
I have the patience to direct. But I do give
what are quote unquote master classes to singers when I'm
on the road, and they're not master classes. I am
a master of nothing because I am still learning. But
I am an audience member and I have experience, and
(32:19):
so I'm able to tell young kids what they're doing
that isn't engaging an audience, it's not engaging me. And
I'm your audience, and I can see them transforming to
I can see them learning when I tell them. And
it's the simplest stand still. And it's as simple as
change the key. Where's your power? And your power is
(32:41):
stillness and the right key boom, nothing else. You're free.
You're free when your voice is free. You don't have
to do this. And it's the hardest thing to stand still.
But where do we all look when we're on stage.
We're looking at the stillest person on stage, wondering why
they're thinking. We're not looking everybody that's moving around. We're
(33:04):
wondering what he's doing, which is nothing, which is everything?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Oh wow, I love that.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Well, if not directing, you know, coaching, teaching, you know,
something that really gives you a chance to, you know,
talk about all these experiences and all these skills and
everything that you've learned.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
And I love to give it back because I have
to say, there's so much talent on the stage I
love going to the theater, and I'm seeing not great
stuff except for the two that I've mentioned, But what's
on the stage, the actors and the singers and the
dancers on the stage are extraordinary and they deserve better material.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Well, before we get to the great treat of you
singing for us, I want to just also mention that,
you know, during this amazing career.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Of yours, you're also a mom.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
How I've always wondered, because it is such a demanding
work schedule when you're in a in a play, how
did you balance, you know, raising your son Josh with
everything else you had to do?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
How did you do it?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Same way you did?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
It your job was so much tougher than mine. Every
single job you've had is so much tougher than mine. Well,
you know, right back at you.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
But I did learn that Josh also sings an X
and you've had a chance to perform together.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
What was that like? Well, it sees my son, and
I'm worried for him, you know what I mean? You know,
and I don't know what Chelsea wanted to do, But
Josh grew up in a star dressing room and he
wanted to be on the stage. He wants to work
in the theater, he wants to work in film. That's
where he grew up. That's what he wants to do.
And if you say no, they're gonna do it anyway.
(35:08):
And so I worry for him in today's world period,
whether it's show business or just walking down the street.
You know, to be with him on stage is so sweet.
It's so sweet. And I just hope all of you
out there that are of that age, in your thirties
and trying to make it in this business, I wish
you all the best of luck and courage, courage, courage.
(35:32):
Something will happen, something will change. We will make it. Oh,
I could cry.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I also, really I want to thank you for your
activism and how outspoken you are in case you haven't noticed,
especially you're being outspoken against the anti LGBTQ legislation and
(36:01):
because you know that's something that you chose to do
and you've been a really necessary voice.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Well, thank you, you know. And I don't think I'm
doing anything extraordinary. It's just that I have family and
friends in the LGBTQ community and I love them, and
I am protecting my friends and my family, and this
is this is insanity. We're in insane times right now,
(36:33):
and this is insanity.
Speaker 7 (36:36):
I don't know what this is about, but it's it's
so distressed, so much cruelty, oh and so much you know,
fear and hatred and anger and insecurity, and it really
is almost hard to understand how we got to where
we are.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, I don't. I mean, I keep wondering. I mean,
I'm seventy four years old, and I don't know what
I expected when I was forty what I would be
like when I was seventy four. But I never expected this.
I never expected the PTSD that I live with daily
to be as extreme. I never expected that I'm on
the verge of tears all the time. I never expected
(37:16):
that I would be as terrorized as I am. I
didn't expect to live out the rest of my life
in this kind of life fear. I don't, And so
I will speak up. I will because it's an injustice
to us. All I don't. I can't make cancer tails
of anything. Why is love such a underestimated word, a
(37:40):
dirty word, and hate such a powerful word? Why isn't
love a more powerful word than hate? And why are
people that just love each other being tormented. You're all closeted.
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And talking about, you know, plays, musicals, history, things that
can break your heart, try to give you hope afterwards.
You know, I've recently signed on to help this incredible
musical about the American suffrage movement.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Sucks, and you know, it's a part of our history
that people don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I mean, you know, women were thrown in jail for
wanting to vote, they were force fed when they went
on hunger strikes. And when people try to, you know,
literally eliminate huge chunks of our history, I just get
more determined we're going to tell the story.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Well, I don't understand, in the richest and most progressive
country in the world, why we are so adamant of suppressing.
I don't understand that why we don't keep moving forward.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I don't understand that people want to pull us back.
I don't get absolutely get it.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Well, you know, I know you are currently preparing a
new concert, Patty Lapone, A Life in Notes, that will
be at Carnegie Hall in April.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Well, I mean, I'm sure a lot of you know that.
I just I do a lot of concert work, which
was always you know, we do, those of us that
go unemployed to supplement our income with concert work, cabaret
and concert work. And I love doing the concert work.
And Joseph Fulk and my musical director is right there, Hello, darling.
He's getting to play. But Joe, Josephin and Scott Whitman
(39:45):
and I and Jeffrey Richmond have done these shows for
several years, and this one I didn't want it to
be about Broadway. I wanted to be about the touchstones,
musical touchstones in my life growing up on Long Island.
You know, we all have a song. We all have
several songs in our lives that we know where we
were when we heard that song and what we felt.
(40:07):
And so I'm looking to create a show. We're all
looking to create a show where the songs are the
stuff that I grew up with and that meant something
to me. We're struggling right now. I grew up in
the fifties in America. We had won a war, the
middle class was thriving, but all the music were about
teenage car crashes. Teen Angel patches, she dies, she drowns herself,
(40:34):
Teen Angel goes running back to the room. The ring
is she gets hit by a train. It's like everybody's
dying in cars in the fifties. So I you know
that we're looking at those songs from my past. Also,
when I moved to New York City and you know,
was a pothead and a hippie and heard Lilac Wine
for the first time. Lilac Wine written in nineteen forty nine,
(40:59):
but Nina Simons singing Lilac Wine, I will never forget
hearing that song for the first time in my life.
I think I was eighteen, free in New York City
and I heard Lilac Wine and I can see the
smoke haze, I can see that, you know. But it's
those kind of songs that meant something to me growing up.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
But everybody can relate to that.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And as a special trait for our audience, I believe
you've got a song that you will sing.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Can you set it up?
Speaker 4 (41:30):
And yeah, it's been cut from the show. But also
you guys, I was nervous to do this. I have
to tell you, Hillary, I was nervous to do this.
I feel like I feel very emotional lately, and I
you know, I think the world is deeply affecting me,
So forgive me. But I am tearful when I sing
(41:52):
this song, and I'm going to try not to cry.
Am I supposed to God?
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Any sing any.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Just ah?
Speaker 8 (42:00):
Falcon ladies and tell men, the sound of applause is delicious.
Speaker 9 (42:16):
It's a thrill to have the world at your feet.
The praise of the crowd is exciting. But I've learned
that is not what makes our life complete. There's one
thing you can do for the rest of your days
that's worth.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
More than applause, the screaming crowd, the bookcase. Make someone happy,
make just wan someone happy, Make just one.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Heart the heart you say to wah, a smither cheers you.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
One face that lies when it nears.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
You once saw your reading.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
To fin.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
If you win, it comes and goals in a minute.
Where's the real stuff in life? To clean to lorne
is the answer?
Speaker 8 (43:34):
Someone to lie is the answer.
Speaker 6 (43:38):
Wants you fall the build a world around them, someone happy,
Make just one someone happy, and you who we'll be happy?
Speaker 4 (43:57):
To hon is the answer.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Someone to love is the answer. What to fall that build.
Speaker 6 (44:26):
Your world around them by.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
Somewhat happy, Make just what somewhat happy, and you will
be happy to.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Lethb.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Wow, well you made a lot of someone's happy Amber.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I'm so glad you're Backy.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
And you know, Amber is a glass is half full
to a glasses overflowing kind of person.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
And you're a Broadway uh, you know, star in your
own right.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
You co wrote the script to Some Like It Hot,
and now you're updating the script for the Broadway revival.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Of The Wiz.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Tell us what that's like. Do you remember seeing the
Wiz as a kid?
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
I was talking to someone and I realized that I
could say this. I've never known life without the Wiz.
Someone was asking me, Yeah, you remember your first experience? No,
do you remember the first time you watched the news?
Speaker 4 (46:05):
No? So I don't.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I've just always known life with the Whiz and it's
always been a huge part of I mean, I feel
like it. I feel like I'm not making this up.
And that it came on NBC's on Sundays when I
was little, I think, I think that's true. But I
know what's true is when you're sick and staying home
from school after you watch The Price is Right, you
(46:29):
would get the the VCR tape of The Wiz and
you would watch that.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
You know. Amber also has a podcast. She hosts The
Amber and Lacey Lacy and Amber Show. Lacey is your
sister Lacy?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Where you at?
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Man?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Is Lacy here today? Okay?
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Also, you know you guys have written books together. You've
been you've been talking. I guess since you could both talk?
And was it like doing that with your sister?
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Lacey is horrible? So everybody who's sitting by her, I am.
So we have so much fun. We wrote a book
called You'll Never Believe It Happened to Lacey Crazy Stories
about racism? And she yeah, yeah, that person's like, oh,
no versism, they know, but we The book is just
(47:23):
all the unbelievable stories that are crazy and racists that
have happened to Lacey that are funny.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
And it's just the funny.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
One example, one quick example, so man, Lacey was she added,
this was a while ago, and she was paying with
a check someplace. Now a million years ago, you could
get black history checks and they had like Malcolm ex and.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
And so.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
She pays for this check, she gives into the catcher.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
The casher goes, I didn't know you could get your
picture on checks. And the person on the check is
Harriet Tubman. It's not like a rendition of it.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
It's the picture you're thinking of. There's the only one.
There's just like a million stories like that.
Speaker 9 (48:19):
A lot.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Better to laugh, I guess right. So, Amber, I think
you've got some questions for us from the audience.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Okay, so the audience asked a lot of thoughtful questions.
Derek asked a question. I'm very interested in the answer
for Patty. We hear that Aubrey Plaza is your roommate.
How has that been working out?
Speaker 4 (48:45):
It's been great. Aubrey and I, you know, were part
of the Covin rebonded. Aubrey's making her theatrical debut downtown
at the Lucia Ortel and Danny and the Deep Lucy
with Christopher Abbott. Aubrey has never been on stage before,
and I felt her responsibility for taking care of her.
(49:08):
She had no idea what rehearsal technicals, rehearsal en previews
was about. And I have loved watching her explore and
discover what it is to be a stage actor. And
I have in fact taken care of her. I have
(49:28):
in fact done her laundry.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
And made her soup.
Speaker 4 (49:36):
And I have a funny picture of us brushing our teeth.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
That is its own TV show and I cannot wait
to watch it. And then a question from Jeff, Hillary
and Patty. You've both been passed over for roles where
you were hands down, where you were hands down the
most qualified, slashed talented candidates. Jeff's question is how do
(50:10):
you maintain grounded and motivated to stay in the game
and not give up in the face of defeat.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
That's heavy, heavy duty.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
You look for ways to kind of keep going that
you enjoy, that give you satisfaction. It's kind of like
what Patty was talking about at the beginning of her
acting career. You keep moving forward, you keep looking for
new opportunities, you learn from you know, the defeats, the mistakes,
You pick yourself.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Up and it is just a part of life.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Maybe you don't fail on the global stage, but you know,
everybody fails. Everybody falls. Everybody has to decide whether to
get back up. And I can highly recommend get back up.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
And keep going.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
And it is not only better for you, it really
annoys your adversaries.
Speaker 4 (51:23):
Who says I've maintained All I'll say is it hurts
and you gotta go work through the pain. You gotta
find the you know, the reason to keep going and
learn the lesson. And if there is a lesson to
learn and tell them they made a big mistake. Every
(51:44):
fucking day, you just keep getting better. That's the mistake
they made. But you just keep getting better. Hllary.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
A lot of people are wondering who would play you
in the musical version of your life.
Speaker 4 (52:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
You're ready. You want to, I mean, you want to
get your card back.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
I don't need my card to be on Broadway. That
is the best kept secret on Broadway. You can work
on Broadway without being a member of equity.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Then I have a lot of possibilities. Yeah, yeah, First
somebody has to write it.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
I'll write it.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
You play Hillary with pleasure and I'd be honored. Okay,
it's gonna be great. It's a hit.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
From Christy.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
And this is our last question we have today.
Speaker 4 (52:38):
It's for both of you. What is the one thing
you most admire in each other? May I say Hilary's
uncompromising resilience? Yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yeah, I like both those words. I like both those words.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
And for me, looking at Patty and looking at her
life and looking at her incredible passion and energy.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
It really is that that gutsiness.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
It's that sense that I am here, whether you like
it or not, as somebody who has seen her on
the stage, somebody who admires her outspokenness, somebody who also
hates cell phones interrupting.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
When you're trying to talk to people. For all those reasons.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Gutsiness I mean, and that to me is a really
high form of life accomplishment.
Speaker 4 (53:44):
Thank you, Thank.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Well.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
I honestly I think we could go on and on,
but you know, we got to, unfortunately bring it to
a close. And yeah, I know that's why I feel,
but I want to thank everybody for coming tonight. It
means the world to us to be able to talk
and have such an incredibly responsive audience out there. Thank
(54:14):
both Patty and Amber for who they are and how
exciting it is to talk to them. Thank Joseph Falcon.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Who played the piano.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Thanks to Symphony Space and iHeart Podcasts, but mostly thanks
to all of you for turning out tonight to see
this remarkable woman and to give us a chance to
learn more about her and her extraordinary career. And keep
(54:46):
in mind next April, Carnegie Hall and then for Amber.
Keep in mind Amber's Whiz is coming back.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Thank you all very much.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
You and Me Both is brought to you by iHeart Podcasts.
We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo,
with help from Kuma Abadeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsey Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz,
Laura Olin, Lona Valmorro.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
And Lily Weber.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Our engineer is Zach McNeice, and the original music is
by Forrest Gray. If you like You and Me Both,
tell someone else about it. And if you're not already
a subscriber, what are you waiting for? You can subscribe
to You and Me Both on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week
I'm Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to a very special episode of You and Me Both.
You know, just about a week ago, I had the
pleasure of taping our first ever live show in front
of a standing room only audience at Symphony Space in
New York City. Joining me was my very special guest,
(00:23):
Patty Lapone, with some help from one of my favorite comedians,
Amber Ruffin, who served as our MC. So buckle up
and enjoy the show. First you'll hear from Amber Ruffin.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
It is my pleasure to introduce a bona fide Broadway legend,
the three time Tony Award winning actress singer Patty Lapone
and former Secretary of State and podcast host Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Whoa, whoa, this is so excited everybody. I want to
thank my friend and one of the most genuinely funny
and wonderful human beings, Amber Ruffin for being with us,
(01:14):
and Amber will be back out later. But I have
to tell you this is like a dream come true
for me. Number one, we are doing the very first
live version of my podcast, You and Me Both, and
I could not think of a better person to do
(01:38):
that with than the one and only Patty LuPone. So
Patty welcome to this sold out audience here at Symphony Space.
And when I was thinking, you heard Amber talking about
(01:58):
how when Chelsea and I did uh gutsy and we
interviewed a lot of gutsy women who embodies gutsy more
than Patty and her spunk, her heart, her talent.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I mean, it is just an amazing combination.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So I'm going to dive right in and I actually
read your autobiography. You certainly have a lot of experience
on stages literally all over. You know, I'm happy to
be here interviewing you, but honestly, it's always been my
dream to sing.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Really yes, well, then.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
You should sing tonight. I an'll have to sing. You
should sing tonight. You should sing tonight. Oh no, Hilary,
you should say Now, I.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Had to make the confession because it would end the
show early, and so we can't do that. But later
you're gonna have the real treat of hearing her saying.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I looked at the pictures in your wonderful autobiography I
read about your life, and I'm so pleased that the
sag after an actors strike has finished so that you
could actually talk about a lot of the things You've done.
(03:21):
It's perfect. Last Frand Dresser. That's all I've got to say.
God bless Frand Dresser. So let's start at the very beginning.
You were born on Long Island, Northport.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Right, Northport.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, So tell us a little bit about your family,
because it turns out that you had a kind of
pool of talent inside your own family.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well, my mother and my father were not at all
in show business. In fact, my father expected us all
to be teachers, and my mother was just a Long
Island housewife. I'm of Italian descent, and when my parents
were growing up, there was a great deal of prejudice.
My grandparents wanted their kids, both sides, the Patties and
the Loupons, to be American. My name is made up
(04:08):
of my parents' last name. My dad's LuPone, my mother's
a Patsy, so they wanted their kids to be American.
So my mother really showed business was the farthest thing
from her mind for her kids. But she was the
one that actually started it by enrolling me in a
dance class. And my brother Bobby saw me in a
huli skirt and fell in love with the hula skirt,
(04:28):
and he started dancing. That's the truth.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, but in fact, didn't you form a group later?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yes, we did, because we had we had first it
was Miss Marguerite Dance Studio. Then it was Donald and
Rosalie Grant Dance Studio. Then it was the Andrea and
Bonnie and their friend Betty Dance Studio and Andre and Bonnie.
Andre was it was French. It was so kind of
exotic and wonderful, and he's a French accent, and he
put my brothers and I did an adagio waltz. My
(04:58):
brother Bobby and I did a tango. We actually competed
at Jones's speech. We won third prize. I still have
the trophy. So it was sort of even though my
mother never she actually was famous as saying to my
brother and I, it upsets me that you flip from
job to job. Yuh mau. Yeah, that's the way it goes.
(05:22):
But because she had no clue about about show business.
But she was the one that introduced us, and Bobby
and I both found our place. Yeah, it was a calling.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
But you know, I actually love that story because it's
a story of a certain time and a certain place
and going from those dance studios and those other opportunities.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
And I love the story that stories you.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Tell about your rather unusual audition for Juilliard. I mean,
here is this young girl, you were still a young girl,
and let it be said you hated school except for music.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Right, No, it's not in hate school. I was lucky
to go to a high school, an elementary, a junior high,
and a high school where music was an integral part
of our education as important as English, math and science.
We all studied and we also with the third grade
was marched into the Ocean Avenue Elementary School. There were
two posters on the wall band instruments orchestra instruments, and
(06:25):
our music teachers said pick an instrument, and we learned
started to learn how to read music in the third
grade and we carry that all the way through high school.
So kudos to the Northport school system for instilling music
into our lives. It breaks my heart that there isn't music.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
It breaks my heart in school.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And you know, when you think about it, because that
used to be the norm, you would have, you know, music,
you might even have music appreciation because I can remember
in third grade we had a music teacher who would
come in and she would introduce us to things we would.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Never have known about.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I remember having her tell us about Aida and playing
from the score.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I'm in third grade. What do I know?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I know nothing about opera, nothing at all.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
But now so many kids don't have that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So it's really important to, you know, remind everybody that
it used to be much more common, and it gave
so many kids a chance to find themselves, find their
talents or enhance what they need.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
And the arts are the soul of a nation.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, you've done your part to try to, you know,
deliver a lot to a lot of happy people. And
I want to go back to this audition at Juilliard
because here you are in high school and you do
have support from some teachers and some other adults in
your life.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And what did you decide to do?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I knew what I was going to do. I actually
I wanted to be a rock and roller because I
grew up in the age of rock and roll. But
whenever I opened my mouths to sing a rock and
roll so I sounded like ethel Mermons, so that wasn't
going to work. But still I'm a closet rocker, so
I knew that my I knew at a very young age.
(08:11):
First of all, I remember when I was sixteen saying,
my career is in Europe, and of course it hasn't been.
But I've always felt more European than American, and I
always wanted my career to be I wanted to sing
in Europe, and I knew what I was going to do.
I knew that I wouldn't end up on the Broadway
musical stage. I just knew that. So it's not that
I hated school. It's just that I knew where my
(08:31):
focus was. And when my junior high school guidance counselor
asked me what I wanted to major in in high school,
I said music. He said, you can't. Why did you
ask me then? And ultimately what I did do was
skip every other class and just went to the music classes.
I don't know how I graduated. They wanted me out,
so that's how I got out, and then Julliard, and
(08:53):
then my mother wanted me to go to a college,
and I went n and I moved to New York City,
found one hundred dollars a month, five floor walk up
railroad flat on East nineteenth and Second Avenue, and got
a job at the Ginza at waitress, and I auditioned
for Broadway musicals. My brother Bobby was attending the dance
(09:16):
division of Juilliard. He said they were starting a drama division,
and I only auditioned for my mother and my brother.
I did not want to go to college, and my
audition was I didn't even care. I picked the most
obvious classical speech, the most obvious contemporary speech. I went
at the time, we were hippie, so I was in
a granny dress with granny shoes and granny glasses. And
(09:37):
when I did my it was Kate's epulogue from Taming
of the Shrew five fi on that threatening on Kim Brown,
dark knot scornful glances at thy lord, thy Master. When
I finished the speech, John Hausman came to the foot
of the stage and said, I don't think that's what
Shakespeare had in mind. And I frankly couldn't care less.
(10:04):
So I did that, and I did Dolly Levi's money
speech from the Matchmaker, and then there was a lot
of silence out there, and of course I couldn't see them.
Then somebody shouted out an improv, which is I got
a rejection letter from the drama division of the Juilliard School.
So I went over to opened up a mailbox, pulled
out the letter, opened it up, read it, throw it
over my shoulder.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's what got me in.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
That's what got me in.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
And didn't you say John Houseman? Did you say John Houseman?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah? Okay, mister Housman, mister Houseman to me, yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
For people, who was John Houseman? Because not everybody remembers well.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
John Housman was a very powerful producer in the Mercury Theater.
He worked with Orson Wells. He was a frightening man
when I met him, and he was the co artistic
director of the initial drama division of the Juilliard School.
The Julliard School used to the Julliard School of Music,
(11:01):
but in order for them to move down to Lincoln Center,
they had to become a complete performing arts swing, so
they had to add a drama division. And Peter Mennon,
who was the president of the Juilliard School of Music,
was not happy that we would now have actors in
the building, and John Housman and Peter Manon did not
get along at all. But John was also frightening to me.
(11:25):
I mean, he was a very imposing man, and he
it was difficult, It was scary to be in that school.
It was a brutal education.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And one of the people who you were in that
school with was someone who I think became your boyfriend
for a number of years, right, Kevin Klein.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yes, yeah, he was my boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And that's all we'll.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Hear about that.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Ladies and gentlemen, moving right along.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
So you get out of Juilliard, but you're still part
of a almost a kind of acting company, right, And
you performed nearly anywhere, anytime anybody asked, and it was
apparently an amazing, full immersion experience for you.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
It was you know, acting as a craft, and a
craft takes training, and we were given the golden opportunity
to hone our craft. We learned what we could at Juilliard,
and Juilliard was our class was sort of the guinea
pigs of the entire acting experience. What they wanted was
(12:42):
to break the psyche down of an American actor and
form the Juilliard actor that could be a classical actor,
a contemporary actor, act in every particular styles, restoration, Jacko Beean,
Elizabethan modern, and be able to work with Russian directors,
French directors, American directors. So in school we were inundated
(13:04):
with technique, not so much acting classes, but a lot
of technique. When John put us on display on our
third year, mal Guso, who was a critic, second string
critic for the New York Times, said, keep this company together,
don't break them up, which was John's q. To keep
this company together. So when we graduated from Juilliard, he
handed us an equity card and a seat on a
dominical bus and we toured the shows that we had
(13:27):
been performing in our third and fourth years with sets
that weren't built to tour. That was the first problem,
and we had been trained to do three shows and
on the fourth the performance fell apart. We didn't know
how to maintain and so we got lessons that no
(13:48):
actors get any more, which is a pity because we
were armed to the teeth with technique, so that when
somebody says something to me, I don't go no, I
can't do that. At a fear, I say, yeah, I
can do that because I want to. Whether I know
how to do it or not, I have the technique
(14:08):
to figure it out. And if I fail, that's okay.
That was the other thing that techniques allows. The technique
allows you to fail because you know, you can figure
something out.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I think that's incredible for people to hear, because it's
not just about acting, it's about life. Yeah, and you know,
being equipped, you know, having skills putting yourself in new situations,
oftentimes difficult ones. You're constantly learning, You're constantly honing who
(14:39):
you are, and for that, you were honing who you
became as an actor. And I read with just almost
open mouthed wonder at how you all were willing to
do anything, take on any challenge, you know, just to
fulfill that craft of being an actor.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
I think it has to be a passion. That's it,
you know. I have tremendous problems with the younger performers
today that say I can't basically or it's too hard.
You have to love it and you have to want
to be challenged in anything. I'm not just talking about theater.
You have to want to be challenged in order to
(15:20):
grow because you love what you're doing and you want
to learn. That's the other thing you want to learn.
And I have to I have to say in many
of these cases, I think maybe that the younger generation
is fearful, and fear is a crippler. And if you
don't admit your fear, embrace your fear, then you will
put up blocks. I can't do that. I won't do that.
(15:43):
My character wouldn't let me do that. What the fuck? Sorry,
my character, you know what I'm saying. So, but and
I think that I think fear. I think we don't
acknowledge fear enough in our own lives or in our
whatever it is we do. And if if we David
Mammott said this, dare to live in the area where
(16:04):
you do not know what's going on. That's the area
you learn. That's the area where things start to pop,
things start to blossom. When you admit you are not
in control.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Then you learn you make yourself vulnerable and you kind
of take a leap of faith, almost, don't you.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
We're taking a quick break. Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Well, the first time I ever saw you on a
stage was in your breakthrough role in Avida. Okay, that
was back in nineteen seventy nine when you played Ava perone. Now,
you were cast over a lot of really big names,
(17:02):
famous names, people.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Who were vying for that role, but they picked you.
Why do you think they picked you?
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I I don't know. Actually, I know that Joanna Merlin
got rest her soul was house casting director. Joanna had
seen us in the acting company, and she knew I
could act. She didn't know whether I could sing, and
so my auditions were primarily whether I could sing. And
(17:32):
I think that Hal would have preferred someone that was unknown.
Prince help Prince would have preferred someone that was unknown
to have the control that he needed for this particular piece.
I mean, I'm just speculating that if there was a
bigger name, there might have been ego clashes. I don't know.
It's a very difficult part. Mandy and I actually because
(17:54):
Mandy went to Juliet as well Patinkin. Mandy and I
were able to connect the dots in because it's only exposition,
and then she did this, and then she did that,
and then she did this, and then she did that
and then she died. You know, It's like, but it's exposition.
There's very little conflict. There's very little drama in that.
So Mandy and I were able to figure out how
to connect the dots and make it dramatic because we
(18:15):
had training as actors and the singing was the thing
that killed me.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
And I.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Said it afterwards, and how I was very upset with
me for saying it. But it was a terrible experience
because I couldn't sing it, and it took such willpower.
I willed my voice every single night, and I couldn't fail.
I would not allow myself to fail. I would figure
this out. This is where I belonged on the Broadway
(18:45):
musical stage. This is a role you can play. You
just have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
And when you're talking about how difficult it was, it's
because of the scoring. It's because of the saying, oh,
you have to hit. It's because of the breathing that
is so hard in between those notes.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Right, it sits, and I'm sure there's singers out there.
It sings in a sopranos passagio. And the passaggio is
if if there's a rubber band and you stretch the
rubber band, the weakest part of the rubber band is
the passaggio in a voice. It goes from chest to head.
It's just the weakest part. That's where all the money
notes were, right in the place where you hit it
(19:24):
wrong one night, it's going to affect your voice for
the rest of there's somebody in the audience now that
was in my castmatee in Ivita, and he can tell
you every story because one of my closest friends in Ivita,
Peter Marinos, who was my support backstage, who was my
support in life with Salma Stretta, because he saw what
I was going through and it was the singing. The
(19:47):
singing is so well. The first time I heard the
concept score with Julie Comington, David Essex and Colin Wilkinson,
this guy hates women. It was, it was, It was
so difficult, and Well gave me a tape with four
speeches from the Casa Rozata and the first two the
voice and this is the comparison. Is only the tone,
(20:10):
you guys, It's only the tone. You know, that pin
that that that Sarah Palin has and Marjorie Taylor Green
has that wason, she had that ping and so you
have to pu you have to imbue the music with
(20:37):
that quality in order to get across. He supports you,
for he loves you, understands you, is one of you,
you know, and those notes the d's, d's, e's, f's,
and g's, and you have to in order to convince
an audience. The death Camisado's an audience. Why she's such
a cult figure, you cannot sing it lyrically. And that
(20:58):
was the thing that was killing me, frankly. And what
happened and I got through New York, Mandy left and
I went, oh. And it was very difficult when Mandy
left because he was my rock. But when I left,
Tyler Gatchell, the general manager, came he said, why are
you leaving? It said, because I've lost my sense of humor.
The role was so controversial. My applause used to dip
(21:21):
after Mandy's and I would go down going it's because
I'm so good in the part. Literally it would dip
out because they were so ambiguous on what they felt
about Ivita Parron. So I had lost my sense of humor.
I got to get out of here. Then the woman
that played Ivita and Australia, and she was talking the
(21:42):
part it knocked every Evita out. It's such a brutal score.
So they called me and they said would you come down?
And I thought, well, I'm never going to get asked
to sing in Australia again? Why not? And then I
said to my general manager Howard Haynes, Are you buying
my performance? I don't know where that came from, and
he said yes. And when I got to Australia, they
(22:04):
were doing everything on the opposite foot, and I went,
I'm not learning what you're doing. You're going to learn
what I'm doing. I didn't have that much time to
go back into a part and a part that scared
me to death, and now I'm in the part with
a brilliant company of just the most wonderful people in
(22:26):
the world, and there was no pressure to prove myself.
I wasn't in New York, one of the cruelest environments
if you were a performer. I wasn't in New York.
I didn't have to deal with critics that were cruel.
David Mammmett said this as well, he doesn't care what
the critics say as long as he knows they love
the theater. I'm not sure our critics have ever loved
(22:49):
the theater.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, this was really revelatory to me because watching you
do this performance, which you know I have vivid memories
of all those years ago, there was no sense at
all how difficult it was.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I mean, you.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Inhabited that role, your arms up in that big v
that you know, just was thrilling. I was not, frankly,
you know, taken by the controversy over her, but I
know that there was a lot of controversy there. And
so you won a Tony Award, how difficult it was,
and you won a Tony Award and you entered Broadway
(23:30):
history and you were literally on your way because people
were just knocked out by your performance and you were too,
but they gave you a Tony for it.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
But it's interesting because you know, there was a time
in our Broadway legacy where leading ladies were celebrated and
then leading men were celebrated, and I was in the
period where leading men were celebrated. Mikael Barishnikov and Gregory
Hines and Mandy and David Agdenstein all went off to Hollywood.
(24:03):
That did not happen for me. It was a controversial character.
It was a character that people were upset was being
glorified on stage because she harbored the Nazis. The Patanistas
harbored the Nazis. And so I had a very difficult
time after I left Dvita getting work.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I wanted people to hear that, because that is not
what anyone would think who loves the theater loves you.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
That it was.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
It was kind of a shock.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I mean, there you were with this Tony Award and
you didn't have the kind of offers that shot to
come now.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
And the thing. The other thing was, I remember, so
leave you Chule as a god Risisol He's a Romanian director,
and I find that I prefer European directors to American
directors because of their concepts, because they come in with
these fantastic ideas that you have to fulfill and leave
you was doing his world famous As You Like It
(25:01):
at the Guthrie and he wanted me to play Rosalind.
And he came to the dressing room with Margot Harley,
who is now one of the producers of the Acting Company,
and he said, will you play Rosalind and As You
Like It? And I said yes. And when I left Ivita,
that was my next role. And I was sort of
admonished by my agents by taking a role at the Guthrie.
(25:27):
What are you doing? And I said, I'm going back
to my roots. I'm going back to what I was
trained for theater. And so I went back to my
roots and it.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
To feel that really, you know, rejuvenated you totally totally yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I mean it's it's it's something that I would I
would do today. Well, for instance, I don't think I'll
ever go back to Broadway because I don't know what
Broadway is anymore. That doesn't mean I won't be on
the stage in New York, but i'll be downtown. I'll
be east of Broadway, I'll be west of Bay, I'll
be north of Broadway, I'll be south of Broadway. But
I don't think Broadway is sustainable anymore. I don't know
(26:08):
where Broadway is. I think it's the circus Las Vegas
and Disneyland, I and nobody. You can't have a show
that runs. I was talking to Amber. You heard me
talking to Amber. Some like it hot closing with those reviews,
What is going on? I don't understand it. So you
can't sustain anything. You cannot sustain something, so it breaks
(26:31):
your heart. And my heart will continue to be broken
because I'll probably be in more bombs, you know, on
more flops whatever, but at least I will be doing something.
I'm here to recommend ja Ja's African hair bray and
Stereophonic to non for profit productions that are what theater
(26:53):
should be in this city.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Oh, you've got a great response to that.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Patty.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So you were talking about how you like European directors.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You've obviously been on Broadway, you've also been in the
West End in London. What's the difference and and and
tell us a little bit about how you compare the experiences.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Well, I don't think there's any difference. I think if
you put on something good, audiences will react the same
way because we're really the same person, you know what
I mean, it's it's and so the Well, I'll tell
you a story when I did lems in London, and
this was Royal Shakespeare Company actors who were doing Shakespeare,
not musicals, and I was the only musical person. I'm
(27:34):
one of my favorite two stories, one of my favorite
John Carrod and Trevor Nunn. We're telling me Nopati when
you sing I dreamed a dream, you tell it to
the audience. I looked at them, What did they think
they brought over here? They said, yeah, I know, yeah,
I know what you're supposed to do. You brought me
over here. But but so Trevor Nunn, it's the first
(27:56):
preview and Trevor Nunn calls us all to the stage
and he goes. You know that the Royal Shakespeare audience
will not be used to a musical, and do not
expect the kind of response you get when you do
Shakespeare at the end of the show, literally, And so
(28:18):
I think, if you give people what they want, or
you move an audience, the audience is transcended. Everybody will
respond the same way. So I find no difference in
London audiences and New York audiences. It's you go to
the theater for a reason and if you are more
than satisfied you you react that way.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Well, you've also done a lot of work in TV
and film.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You know, you had these hilarious cameos in Lena Dunham's
TV series Girls, you were a four hundred and fifty
year old witch in the upcoming Marvel mini series Agatha
Coven of Chaos, and then there's this part as Mona,
(29:05):
a pretty cruel and manipulative mother in the film bo
Is Afraid, which came out this past spring.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So what would it like being in a Marvel mini series?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Well, okay, I have to talk about First of all,
I give up my equity card and I think I'm
sitting in my apartment in at the kitchen table going
I wonder what dire action my career is going to
go in ring Hello, Marvel calling Marvel, called am my agents.
I said, well, she said, talk to these people. Jack
(29:37):
Schaefer created wand Division? Did anybody see WandaVision? Jack is brilliant.
She is the creator of one Division. She has a
three picture deal with Marvel. She spun off Catherine Hahn's
character Agatha. So we are the second installment of this triad,
and we are a coven of witches. And is Catherine
(30:02):
Aubrey Plaza shares Amida Ali on me and Joe Locke
from heart Stoppers. And it was one of the best
experiences I have ever had in my career because of
Jack and Catherine, who were our leaders. It was a
(30:23):
set filled with respect, support, love and trust and we
as women and poor Joe, we as women bonded and
we still are bonded, and we are a coven and
it's coming out next Halloween. We we finished you and
we finished right under the strike. And Jack came into
(30:46):
my trailer and well, basically, when is this coming out?
She said, A year from now? I'm reserving my walker,
but it was an incredible experience, and she's an incredible writer.
So I don't know whether I've had a Marvel experience.
I've had a Jack Schaeffer experience, which is incredible.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah. Well, I have a couple of lightning round questions here.
All right, what is the favorite role you've ever played?
Speaker 4 (31:14):
I don't have one. It's too limiting.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, it's that's that's a fair thing.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeas too limiting.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Are there roles that you've had that you thought should
have won an award that didn't?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Oh? Yeah, every single one of them.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
So so just just just tell us all okay, you've
got what three Tony's? Yeah, okay, what are the other two?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
For one?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
We know it's a Vita, but Madame Rose in.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Gypsy and Evita and Joanne and company jo in a company?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
D Do you have any interest ever directing?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
I don't think I'm smart enough to direct, I don't
think i'm fond enough to direct, and I don't think
I have the patience to direct. But I do give
what are quote unquote master classes to singers when I'm
on the road, and they're not master classes. I am
a master of nothing because I am still learning. But
I am an audience member and I have experience, and
(32:19):
so I'm able to tell young kids what they're doing
that isn't engaging an audience, it's not engaging me. And
I'm your audience, and I can see them transforming to
I can see them learning when I tell them. And
it's the simplest stand still. And it's as simple as
change the key. Where's your power? And your power is
(32:41):
stillness and the right key boom, nothing else. You're free.
You're free when your voice is free. You don't have
to do this. And it's the hardest thing to stand still.
But where do we all look when we're on stage.
We're looking at the stillest person on stage, wondering why
they're thinking. We're not looking everybody that's moving around. We're
(33:04):
wondering what he's doing, which is nothing, which is everything?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Oh wow, I love that.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Well, if not directing, you know, coaching, teaching, you know,
something that really gives you a chance to, you know,
talk about all these experiences and all these skills and
everything that you've learned.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
And I love to give it back because I have
to say, there's so much talent on the stage I
love going to the theater, and I'm seeing not great
stuff except for the two that I've mentioned, But what's
on the stage, the actors and the singers and the
dancers on the stage are extraordinary and they deserve better material.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Well, before we get to the great treat of you
singing for us, I want to just also mention that,
you know, during this amazing career.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Of yours, you're also a mom.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
How I've always wondered, because it is such a demanding
work schedule when you're in a in a play, how
did you balance, you know, raising your son Josh with
everything else you had to do?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
How did you do it?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Same way you did?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
It your job was so much tougher than mine. Every
single job you've had is so much tougher than mine. Well,
you know, right back at you.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
But I did learn that Josh also sings an X
and you've had a chance to perform together.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
What was that like? Well, it sees my son, and
I'm worried for him, you know what I mean? You know,
and I don't know what Chelsea wanted to do, But
Josh grew up in a star dressing room and he
wanted to be on the stage. He wants to work
in the theater, he wants to work in film. That's
where he grew up. That's what he wants to do.
And if you say no, they're gonna do it anyway.
(35:08):
And so I worry for him in today's world period,
whether it's show business or just walking down the street.
You know, to be with him on stage is so sweet.
It's so sweet. And I just hope all of you
out there that are of that age, in your thirties
and trying to make it in this business, I wish
you all the best of luck and courage, courage, courage.
(35:32):
Something will happen, something will change. We will make it. Oh,
I could cry.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I also, really I want to thank you for your
activism and how outspoken you are in case you haven't noticed,
especially you're being outspoken against the anti LGBTQ legislation and
(36:01):
because you know that's something that you chose to do
and you've been a really necessary voice.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Well, thank you, you know. And I don't think I'm
doing anything extraordinary. It's just that I have family and
friends in the LGBTQ community and I love them, and
I am protecting my friends and my family, and this
is this is insanity. We're in insane times right now,
(36:33):
and this is insanity.
Speaker 7 (36:36):
I don't know what this is about, but it's it's
so distressed, so much cruelty, oh and so much you know,
fear and hatred and anger and insecurity, and it really
is almost hard to understand how we got to where
we are.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, I don't. I mean, I keep wondering. I mean,
I'm seventy four years old, and I don't know what
I expected when I was forty what I would be
like when I was seventy four. But I never expected this.
I never expected the PTSD that I live with daily
to be as extreme. I never expected that I'm on
the verge of tears all the time. I never expected
(37:16):
that I would be as terrorized as I am. I
didn't expect to live out the rest of my life
in this kind of life fear. I don't, And so
I will speak up. I will because it's an injustice
to us. All I don't. I can't make cancer tails
of anything. Why is love such a underestimated word, a
(37:40):
dirty word, and hate such a powerful word? Why isn't
love a more powerful word than hate? And why are
people that just love each other being tormented. You're all closeted.
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And talking about, you know, plays, musicals, history, things that
can break your heart, try to give you hope afterwards.
You know, I've recently signed on to help this incredible
musical about the American suffrage movement.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Sucks, and you know, it's a part of our history
that people don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I mean, you know, women were thrown in jail for
wanting to vote, they were force fed when they went
on hunger strikes. And when people try to, you know,
literally eliminate huge chunks of our history, I just get
more determined we're going to tell the story.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Well, I don't understand, in the richest and most progressive
country in the world, why we are so adamant of suppressing.
I don't understand that why we don't keep moving forward.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I don't understand that people want to pull us back.
I don't get absolutely get it.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Well, you know, I know you are currently preparing a
new concert, Patty Lapone, A Life in Notes, that will
be at Carnegie Hall in April.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Well, I mean, I'm sure a lot of you know that.
I just I do a lot of concert work, which
was always you know, we do, those of us that
go unemployed to supplement our income with concert work, cabaret
and concert work. And I love doing the concert work.
And Joseph Fulk and my musical director is right there, Hello, darling.
He's getting to play. But Joe, Josephin and Scott Whitman
(39:45):
and I and Jeffrey Richmond have done these shows for
several years, and this one I didn't want it to
be about Broadway. I wanted to be about the touchstones,
musical touchstones in my life growing up on Long Island.
You know, we all have a song. We all have
several songs in our lives that we know where we
were when we heard that song and what we felt.
(40:07):
And so I'm looking to create a show. We're all
looking to create a show where the songs are the
stuff that I grew up with and that meant something
to me. We're struggling right now. I grew up in
the fifties in America. We had won a war, the
middle class was thriving, but all the music were about
teenage car crashes. Teen Angel patches, she dies, she drowns herself,
(40:34):
Teen Angel goes running back to the room. The ring
is she gets hit by a train. It's like everybody's
dying in cars in the fifties. So I you know
that we're looking at those songs from my past. Also,
when I moved to New York City and you know,
was a pothead and a hippie and heard Lilac Wine
for the first time. Lilac Wine written in nineteen forty nine,
(40:59):
but Nina Simons singing Lilac Wine, I will never forget
hearing that song for the first time in my life.
I think I was eighteen, free in New York City
and I heard Lilac Wine and I can see the
smoke haze, I can see that, you know. But it's
those kind of songs that meant something to me growing up.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
But everybody can relate to that.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And as a special trait for our audience, I believe
you've got a song that you will sing.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Can you set it up?
Speaker 4 (41:30):
And yeah, it's been cut from the show. But also
you guys, I was nervous to do this. I have
to tell you, Hillary, I was nervous to do this.
I feel like I feel very emotional lately, and I
you know, I think the world is deeply affecting me,
So forgive me. But I am tearful when I sing
(41:52):
this song, and I'm going to try not to cry.
Am I supposed to God?
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Any sing any.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Just ah?
Speaker 8 (42:00):
Falcon ladies and tell men, the sound of applause is delicious.
Speaker 9 (42:16):
It's a thrill to have the world at your feet.
The praise of the crowd is exciting. But I've learned
that is not what makes our life complete. There's one
thing you can do for the rest of your days
that's worth.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
More than applause, the screaming crowd, the bookcase. Make someone happy,
make just wan someone happy, Make just one.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Heart the heart you say to wah, a smither cheers you.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
One face that lies when it nears.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
You once saw your reading.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
To fin.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
If you win, it comes and goals in a minute.
Where's the real stuff in life? To clean to lorne
is the answer?
Speaker 8 (43:34):
Someone to lie is the answer.
Speaker 6 (43:38):
Wants you fall the build a world around them, someone happy,
Make just one someone happy, and you who we'll be happy?
Speaker 4 (43:57):
To hon is the answer.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Someone to love is the answer. What to fall that build.
Speaker 6 (44:26):
Your world around them by.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
Somewhat happy, Make just what somewhat happy, and you will
be happy to.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Lethb.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Wow, well you made a lot of someone's happy Amber.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I'm so glad you're Backy.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
And you know, Amber is a glass is half full
to a glasses overflowing kind of person.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
And you're a Broadway uh, you know, star in your
own right.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
You co wrote the script to Some Like It Hot,
and now you're updating the script for the Broadway revival.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Of The Wiz.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Tell us what that's like. Do you remember seeing the
Wiz as a kid?
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
I was talking to someone and I realized that I
could say this. I've never known life without the Wiz.
Someone was asking me, Yeah, you remember your first experience? No,
do you remember the first time you watched the news?
Speaker 4 (46:05):
No? So I don't.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I've just always known life with the Whiz and it's
always been a huge part of I mean, I feel
like it. I feel like I'm not making this up.
And that it came on NBC's on Sundays when I
was little, I think, I think that's true. But I
know what's true is when you're sick and staying home
from school after you watch The Price is Right, you
(46:29):
would get the the VCR tape of The Wiz and
you would watch that.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
You know. Amber also has a podcast. She hosts The
Amber and Lacey Lacy and Amber Show. Lacey is your
sister Lacy?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Where you at?
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Man?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Is Lacy here today? Okay?
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Also, you know you guys have written books together. You've
been you've been talking. I guess since you could both talk?
And was it like doing that with your sister?
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Lacey is horrible? So everybody who's sitting by her, I am.
So we have so much fun. We wrote a book
called You'll Never Believe It Happened to Lacey Crazy Stories
about racism? And she yeah, yeah, that person's like, oh,
no versism, they know, but we The book is just
(47:23):
all the unbelievable stories that are crazy and racists that
have happened to Lacey that are funny.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
And it's just the funny.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
One example, one quick example, so man, Lacey was she added,
this was a while ago, and she was paying with
a check someplace. Now a million years ago, you could
get black history checks and they had like Malcolm ex and.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
And so.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
She pays for this check, she gives into the catcher.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
The casher goes, I didn't know you could get your
picture on checks. And the person on the check is
Harriet Tubman. It's not like a rendition of it.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
It's the picture you're thinking of. There's the only one.
There's just like a million stories like that.
Speaker 9 (48:19):
A lot.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Better to laugh, I guess right. So, Amber, I think
you've got some questions for us from the audience.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Okay, so the audience asked a lot of thoughtful questions.
Derek asked a question. I'm very interested in the answer
for Patty. We hear that Aubrey Plaza is your roommate.
How has that been working out?
Speaker 4 (48:45):
It's been great. Aubrey and I, you know, were part
of the Covin rebonded. Aubrey's making her theatrical debut downtown
at the Lucia Ortel and Danny and the Deep Lucy
with Christopher Abbott. Aubrey has never been on stage before,
and I felt her responsibility for taking care of her.
(49:08):
She had no idea what rehearsal technicals, rehearsal en previews
was about. And I have loved watching her explore and
discover what it is to be a stage actor. And
I have in fact taken care of her. I have
(49:28):
in fact done her laundry.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
And made her soup.
Speaker 4 (49:36):
And I have a funny picture of us brushing our teeth.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
That is its own TV show and I cannot wait
to watch it. And then a question from Jeff, Hillary
and Patty. You've both been passed over for roles where
you were hands down, where you were hands down the
most qualified, slashed talented candidates. Jeff's question is how do
(50:10):
you maintain grounded and motivated to stay in the game
and not give up in the face of defeat.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
That's heavy, heavy duty.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
You look for ways to kind of keep going that
you enjoy, that give you satisfaction. It's kind of like
what Patty was talking about at the beginning of her
acting career. You keep moving forward, you keep looking for
new opportunities, you learn from you know, the defeats, the mistakes,
You pick yourself.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Up and it is just a part of life.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Maybe you don't fail on the global stage, but you know,
everybody fails. Everybody falls. Everybody has to decide whether to
get back up. And I can highly recommend get back up.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
And keep going.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
And it is not only better for you, it really
annoys your adversaries.
Speaker 4 (51:23):
Who says I've maintained All I'll say is it hurts
and you gotta go work through the pain. You gotta
find the you know, the reason to keep going and
learn the lesson. And if there is a lesson to
learn and tell them they made a big mistake. Every
(51:44):
fucking day, you just keep getting better. That's the mistake
they made. But you just keep getting better. Hllary.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
A lot of people are wondering who would play you
in the musical version of your life.
Speaker 4 (52:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
You're ready. You want to, I mean, you want to
get your card back.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
I don't need my card to be on Broadway. That
is the best kept secret on Broadway. You can work
on Broadway without being a member of equity.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Then I have a lot of possibilities. Yeah, yeah, First
somebody has to write it.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
I'll write it.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
You play Hillary with pleasure and I'd be honored. Okay,
it's gonna be great. It's a hit.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
From Christy.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
And this is our last question we have today.
Speaker 4 (52:38):
It's for both of you. What is the one thing
you most admire in each other? May I say Hilary's
uncompromising resilience? Yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yeah, I like both those words. I like both those words.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
And for me, looking at Patty and looking at her
life and looking at her incredible passion and energy.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
It really is that that gutsiness.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
It's that sense that I am here, whether you like
it or not, as somebody who has seen her on
the stage, somebody who admires her outspokenness, somebody who also
hates cell phones interrupting.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
When you're trying to talk to people. For all those reasons.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Gutsiness I mean, and that to me is a really
high form of life accomplishment.
Speaker 4 (53:44):
Thank you, Thank.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Well.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
I honestly I think we could go on and on,
but you know, we got to, unfortunately bring it to
a close. And yeah, I know that's why I feel,
but I want to thank everybody for coming tonight. It
means the world to us to be able to talk
and have such an incredibly responsive audience out there. Thank
(54:14):
both Patty and Amber for who they are and how
exciting it is to talk to them. Thank Joseph Falcon.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Who played the piano.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Thanks to Symphony Space and iHeart Podcasts, but mostly thanks
to all of you for turning out tonight to see
this remarkable woman and to give us a chance to
learn more about her and her extraordinary career. And keep
(54:46):
in mind next April, Carnegie Hall and then for Amber.
Keep in mind Amber's Whiz is coming back.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Thank you all very much.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
You and Me Both is brought to you by iHeart Podcasts.
We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo,
with help from Kuma Abadeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsey Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz,
Laura Olin, Lona Valmorro.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
And Lily Weber.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Our engineer is Zach McNeice, and the original music is
by Forrest Gray. If you like You and Me Both,
tell someone else about it. And if you're not already
a subscriber, what are you waiting for? You can subscribe
to You and Me Both on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week
Host
Hillary Clinton
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