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June 24, 2024 39 mins

Brian Noe & Jason Martin fill in for the guys and talk about the disdain for Caitlin Clark among her peers and her rivalry with Angel Reese, the outlook for J.J. Redick with the Lakers, the levels of pressure for young QBs in the NFL, and much more!

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Airings rating Win and Jonas Knox on
Fox Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
So we had some WNBA action yesterday again we had
the third installment of the WNBA Rivalry, which is Angel
Reese and Caitlin Clark. The Chicago Sky got the win. Jason,
So Angel Reese, She's now got her first win against
Caitlin Clark in the WNBA. Caitlyn has a two to

(00:35):
one record, but the Sky beat the Fever yesterday.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
And look, Angel Reese played great.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
She had twenty five point sixteen rebounds, had a great game,
a big bucket in the final minute. Was that you,
Jason or is that a week from mute? Okay, I
didn't know if that was from it was a SoundBite
or a human being. Yeah, it's yeah, one of those things.
I was like, man, j Mart's excited here. For a second,
I thought this really stood out to me. Jason, I'm

(01:02):
curious where you stand on this. But Caitlyn Clark just
plays a more entertaining, entertaining style of basketball, Like a
lot of this has been turned into something much more
complicated than it needs to be, which is, oh, what
is this all, all of this hype, and you know,
all these flowers being thrown at Caitlyn Clark's Clark's feet

(01:27):
have something to do with race and YadA YadA. It's like,
it's way more simple in my mind than that. I
think that Angel Reese is a good basketball player. She
doesn't play as entertaining of a style. She's largely a rebounder.
She'll get some close range buckets from time to time.
But Caitlyn Clark's bombing threes that that's more interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I'd rather watch.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Steph Curry hit threes than watch Rudy Gobert rebound, you
know what I mean, Like, if you think that it's
more exciting to watch Jared Allen of the Calves, like
I have twelve rebounds compared to Damian Lillard hit logo threes.
We just have different versions of what's entertaining, and so
I think a large part of it is that is

(02:11):
just stylistically, Caitlin Clark plays an entertain, entertaining brand of basketball,
and that fuels a lot of her popularity. I don't
know why that's so hard to understand for some people.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
I mean, I definitely think that's part of it. I mean,
I'd rather watch Steph than Ben Wallace, and that I
think is what Aaron Torres compared my partner on Saturday nights.
I think that's who he compared Angel Reese a little
bit too in terms of her game and stuff. But yeah,
twenty five and sixteen. The one thing that they do
need in the w is for someone like, if there's

(02:43):
going to be a rivalry, the other person has to
be pretty good. And I don't know what Angel Reese
is going to be like throughout a career, but twenty
five and sixteen, with probably a pretty decent audience watching
that game, like for their standards, I would say that's
a net plus. And surprisingly enough, you didn't have like
that moment where Angel Reese is trying to drift off

(03:06):
of you know, the NASCAR winning car of Caitlin Clark
and doing something to stay relevant. She actually stayed relevant
with what you did on the floor. Yeah, and that's
a positive. You know. I think there's different levels of
where some of this comes from in terms of the popularity.
I think you're right, she does have the step effect.
She does have it. I mean you saw it yesterday.

(03:29):
She was you know, more assist than scoring in a
lot of respects yesterday, but her assists were very good,
and she's an excellent passer, so that's another thing to travel.
She's a flashy passer in addition to a fast paced
player who drains threes from thirty feet if she has to,
and that's always I think going to be exciting, even

(03:50):
now in an era where we see way too many
threes in my opinion, And now I've become a commotion
who believes the three point line should just almost be
erased to see whether an we get back to actually
playing fundamental basketball on all levels. But I think it's
different when you talk about why she's popular and then
why she is And I don't care what they say

(04:12):
why they don't like her in the w NBA, because
I think are there's different answers to those questions. But
your point is valid in terms of why she's popular.
I think a large part of that doesn't have to
do with you know, her race or those kinds of factors,
has to do with her brand of basketball, right well.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I mean, I think compare her to other white w
NBA players from the past, whether it's Diana Tarassi or
Rebecca Lobo, or you could go on and on with
stars that were never as big of stars as Caitlin
Clark is, and you ask yourself, why is it? Well,
it's not the race card, right, they're white, but they

(04:51):
weren't as popular. Why is that? Well, stylistically, their games
weren't the same. Again, she hit five threes yesterday. This
is a small portion of a call from Ryan Ruco
on ESPNO.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
A logo three. I'm with you where listen.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
If we're talking NBA and they're jacking up threes team wise,
it's tough to watch thirty five forty threes being tossed
up there and they hit maybe twenty five percent on
an off night.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
You know that's not enjoyabad.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
That's that's awful basketball to watch, really entertaining it all.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
It's tough. It's a tough watch.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
But if you watch whoever it is in the NBA,
if it's Damian Lillard or Steph Curry or Kyrie irving
some of the threes that he hits, Luca in his
step backs, if you see a proficient three point shooter,
it's exciting. It does make you say wow, especially with
the logo range with Caitlin or some of the NBA players,

(05:49):
it's a wow. It's not a wow to see Angel
Reese did the dirty work and grabbed an offensive rebound.
You know, it's it's just different levels of entertainment value.
And I love what you said about the NASCAR comparison.
That is beautiful right there, where Angel sometimes does use
Caitlin to try to sling shot past her on the

(06:12):
final lap, and yesterday she didn't have to do that.
She played so well. Props to her. But I don't
think we can gloss over that. If you're looking, it's
turned into like Caitlyn Clark has been reduced to Ah,
she's a white girl and that's why she's so popular.
And it's like, are you serious right in now? Look
at her game stylistically and she is the most prolific

(06:32):
scorer in college basketball history, Like, how can we still
be talking solely about race?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
That doesn't make sense to me at all.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's just bringing it
down to the wrong place. I mean, I'm sure that
there is a factor in that, just in some fans,
but I don't think that most people look at Caitlin
Clark can see that. I don't think that most people,
just most fans because she never made it a thing.
It's not like they look at it and see her
sexuality and see that she's, you know, a heaterosexual. But

(07:03):
I do think, like I said, I think there's a difference.
And I said this on Saturday night on my show
with Anon Torres, and I was going to be kind
of careful about it, and it was just kind of like, well,
I just think it just I think it's fair to
say this. I think that one of the biggest issues
for Caitlin Clark as it relates to the league itself,
is that she does not bring with her the ability

(07:26):
to share the message they want shared because of I
think that. I think, let me just ask you a
hypothetical question and you can you can punt on it
or just feel free not to answer it, but I
think it's valid. What do you think the feeling is
in the WNBA amidst her contemporaries, amidst other players and

(07:50):
some of this vitrio and all that. What do you
think the difference is if she's gay and not straight.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's a really interesting question, you know what. My my
honest answer is it would be different, but I don't
think it would be as different as some would anticipate.
I think most of this is fueled not because ah, man,
this straight girl. I think it's fueled from why is
she getting all this attention?

Speaker 4 (08:16):
Right?

Speaker 2 (08:16):
And so that would still be the same whether she's
gay or straight. She's just getting a lot of attention
and a lot of players, if you listen to their comments,
it's all like, why is she getting all this shine
and we're not. There's more to the WNBA than just
one player. You've literally heard Angel Reese say those exact words,

(08:38):
you've heard her say, I want people to know they're
watching because of me and not just one player. Of course,
he's talking about Caitlin Clark. So I think most of
this has been fueled by we should be getting attention too,
not just her. And I don't think that changes at
all with her sexual orientation.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
Well I can understand that to an extent. But she's
she's the face of the league, Okay. I don't think
there's any question about that. She's the most popular athlete
by a wide margin, that they've ever had in the WNBA.
She might be the first one you look at and
say she's truly marketable. There's a maybe a smattering of

(09:17):
others that had some degree of potential and they've gone
on to show that. Yes, I mean there's charisma there,
there's talent there, like a Candas Parker for example. She's
great on TV, just a lot of ability and a
multifaceted person in Kandas Parker, But no one is close
to the supernova level of popularity that you look at
when you think of Caitlin Clark, and she's the standard

(09:40):
bearer for the WNBA, and I don't think that they
look at it from a talent perspective. I think they
say she's not the one that's supposed to be the
face of this league. And I think there is something
to it. I think that she has a few characteristics
about her that make her the wrong messenger for what

(10:00):
they want. I think that's a shame, but I think
it's a factor. Maybe it's not the biggest factor. I
don't know. I believe it is a significant contributor to
the perception of her, because what these other women are
arguing about, why are you just caring about this now
and we've been here for three four years. It's like, right,

(10:21):
but you mentioned it yourself. You talked about the entertaining
brand of basketball that Caitlin Clark brings. That's certainly part
of it. And the story that kind of took a
life of its own against Angel Rees last year, not
this year, but last year in the NCAA Tournament. But
a lot of this is just I may not be
an expert on basketball, and that's why I don't like

(10:41):
when people tell me I need to pay attention to
this analyst and this analyst that I've been watching this
league for a long time. I don't have to know
basketball to know entertainment. I don't have to know the
intricacies of the women's game to know whether or not
that's a good viewing experience, and historically it has not been,
and honestly it's still is not. And that's why I

(11:03):
don't think you have a league. You have Caitlyn Clark
versus insert name here. That's that's generally what you've got.
And Angel Reese, to her credit, I think quietly understands
that she can kind of drift off this. That's why
I used that NASCAR analogy earlier, That's why. And she
recognizes that because it works for her in the past,

(11:26):
and so she's actually trying to create something so that now,
oh well, Angel Rees and Caitlin Clark are playing. That's
different than Caitlin Clark versus anybody else. And again, to
her credit, I think she understands that there is entertainment
in all of this, and so she's soaking it up.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
You know, it's interesting because this was something that Angel
Reese said earlier this month about the WNBA, and of
course alluding to Caitlin Clark.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
I'll look back at.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Twenty years and be like, yeah, the reason why we
watching women's basketball is not just.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Because of one person. It's because of me too, and
I much try to realize that.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Okay, right, So she's obviously talking about Angel Reese talk
about Kaitlyn Clark. But Angel Reese is straight, you know
what I mean. So this isn't fueled by this straight girl,
Caitlyn Clark. It's not fueled by that at all. And
Angel Reese has been the most outspoken against Caitlyn Clark

(12:22):
and she has the rivalry with her, and that isn't
fueled at all by Caitlyn Clark's sexual orientation. So I
don't think it would change that much. I think most
of this isn't fueled by well, Caitlin straight. It's Caitlyn
is getting all this shine, and a lot of players
are like, why am I not getting attention?

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Why is this only about her? And it turns into
that largely.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
I think your question is excellent, and I do think
for some it would change it a bit. Let's just
say Caitlin Clark is gay, and it probably wouldn't be
as negative with fellow players. But I don't think that
would just all go away and vanish if she's still getting.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
All my night. Okay, so it might not all right.
What I really said this weekend was you can be
one of the two things that she happens to be,
but being both of them can be a bigger problem
if you want to be the face of the league.
Because we've had a lot of, you know, very talented
white women that have played in the WNBA, Sue Bird

(13:27):
for example. The list goes on and on. The vast
majority of them also are gay. So let's just take
it the other just from the flip side again, I'm
just asking how hypothetical questions about how she's perceived within
the league amongst teammates. This isn't a fan This isn't
a fan comment or anything like that. If Caitlyn Clark
were still straight but black. Okay, so she's Angel Reese

(13:49):
at this point. Do you think it's the same, because
I don't. I think there is the fact that she
happens to be both of those two things. She fits
into both of those two categories. I think that makes
them grit their teeth at her because she is not
going to again be able to deliver the message she's
the wrong person to carry the flag because there are

(14:10):
different things about that leak that they want pushed. There's
an ideology I think in their brains and in their
hearts that they want push that she's not gonna push.
And I mean, look at how often you know they
are attempting to bait her and she her only response
is every time she has to take the high road.
And I think she knows it because if she does
anything else, they're going to use it against her. I

(14:33):
feel like, so she's just not giving them any rooms.
She's just basically dropping hot coals on them every time
by taking the high road to saying oh yeah, it's fine,
I as a basketball play, you know whatever like that,
and just moving on from it. I think there is
more to it. And if you look at just if
you look at how it's gone for her in the
league and how many people are doing something that seems

(14:56):
a little bit more to her and then complaining when
someone notices, is it to me? There is at least
a substantial degree of vitriol coming to her from the
league because she doesn't represent what they kind of would
like for their standard bearer to represent.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
I don't buy it. I don't, and I'll tell you why.
Let's play the what if game? Super fast? Okay, and
you've played the game, and I like it is a
what if she was gay? At what would be the
feeling around the league? Maybe at times there would be
less vitriol? Okay, I buy that. What if she was black? Okay,

(15:32):
maybe there'd be a little bit less vitriol if that happened. Possibly,
what if she wasn't uber popular? It would be completely different.
That's what I feel like is fueling the most part
of this negativity is let's just say she's you know,
she's talked about, but she isn't just drooled over it, oh,

(15:55):
Caitlin Cluk, she's not selling out arenas and all this stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
I think that would change it the most.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
So I think the negativity is mostly fueled by she's
just so super popular and most of these players are
sick and tired of it.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
I think that. I mean, I get that, I get that,
and my last comment would just be given that right,
given her popularity, that's where if she were some things
that she is not one in particular, I think I
think that's where it is. Like one of the things
about Kaitlyn Clark is before we didn't even know what

(16:31):
her orientation was because it was never really a thing.
We didn't know about it at Iowa and it's only
kind of come to the four in the last couple
of months. I've seen some articles written and things like
that about it. So it wasn't a real big factor
and it's never It's really never to be in terms
of just the general talk about Caitlin Clark, and I

(16:52):
think that's it. I think she's not going to go
out there. It doesn't feel like and defend. She's not
gonna go to the Megan repeat route. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (17:02):
No, Yeah, That's That's where I'm coming from, is they
would rather have an activist, I feel like, be their
big star. That's a finally a breakaway star. The fact
that she's popular adds to it because she can't then
spread the message that they would like spread.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
Hey, what's up everybody?

Speaker 5 (17:33):
It's me three time pro bowler LeVar Arrington, and I
couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called Up
on Game? What is Up on Game? You asked, along
with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Hutchman, Zada and Super
Bowl champion Yep, that's right, Plexico Birds. You can only
name a show with that type of talent on it.
Up on Game We're going to be sharing our real

(17:55):
life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up on
Game with me Lebar Arrington, TJ. Houtchman's Ada, and Plexico
Burds on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
get your podcasts from.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
So the biggest story in sports, I would say, is
still the same thing that it's been now for not
quite a week. Because you could go back to the
NBA Finals and talk about that. But I don't know
that that was a particularly compelling series that had a
particularly compelling result, And I don't know how many like
grand Takes there are, even though I think maybe the
next segment we can get into you know, what does

(18:35):
this mean for the Eastern Conference and who's in a
position to actually challenge Boston if anybody. But I think
it's still JJ Reddi. I think that's still probably the
most interesting thing that's happening in sports. And soon as
the finals ends and he's done with TV, then here
it comes. And just the way that this all played out,
with the the Woj bomb that wasn't and everything happened

(19:00):
with the athletic and they got dragged, it felt like
we I look back on it now, Brian, the conspiracy
theorist in me, says, Woljarewski didn't like the fact that
Sham's got that scoop. They don't like each other because
they're constantly competing and they're both uber competitive, and there've
been articles written about how neither one of them has
lives because they can't afford to have life because of
the possibility of breaking news and all these other kinds

(19:22):
of things. So I just gotdn't feel like Woja almost
dropped that out of nowhere that Danny Hurley deal to
try and take something off of Sham's less than twenty
four hours before that, saying Reddick was nearing a deal,
and it ends up being Reddick anyway. I don't think
many people know Yukon as deeply as my broadcast partner

(19:43):
on Saturday, who's an alumni as well as just you know,
college basketball is how he's made his hey pretty much
his entire career. And he said he never thought for
a second that Danny Hurley was going anywhere, and he
thought it was a story that had no legitimacy from
the get go.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I'd still think it's a monster story. I just look
at this with Reddick being with the Lakers, and the
question that I have in my mind, Jason, is what
would any coach like You could put Spolstra there with
the Lakers. You could put Pop there with the Lakers,
you could put Tyloo there with the Lakers with the

(20:21):
roster that they have. And I don't want to make
it out to be trash, because it's certainly not. You've
got Lebron still playing at a high level. Anthony Davis,
you got some decent role players, but holes on the roster,
and in a loaded West, absolutely loaded, what do you
think the best head coaches could do with that roster?
I think the lakers ceiling would be conference finals, and

(20:45):
that might be generous. It's most likely second round. They
lost in the first round, granted to the defending champion Nuggets.
But think about this. The Nuggets lost to the Timberwolves,
the Timberwolves lost to the MAVs, the MAVs lost to
the Celtics. So if you look at it from that perspective,
the Lakers are far away with the roster they have

(21:06):
from doing significant.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Damage in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
And so that's where I come in where I hear
all this stuff of like, what's up with Reddick? He
hasn't even been an assistant coach and he's a head coach.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
I hear that.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
But the way the season's gonna play out, the Lakers
are gonna have some good moments and then they're not
gonna do jack in the playoffs, assuming they're there because
they were a playing team last season. But I look
at it, I don't think this is a Redick thing.
I think this is a roster thing, and I think
some of the best head coaches in the game they
wouldn't be able to do wonders with this Laker roster either.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
No, I agree with that. I mean there was maybe
a c average if you were just trying to look
at it from like a GPA standpoint. The Lakers are
like a cucus, Like they're not an f But you
talk about a loaded West, not just a loaded West,
but a loaded young West. Yeah, guys that are in
their prime or just now entering their prime. And then

(22:02):
you have your two best players with the Lakers. Ones
often hurt and he's not exactly a spring chicken, and
the other one is, you know, the elder statesman of
the league, who's just gonna he's but he's still gonna
be out of there pretty soon. Reddick has to know
coming in that this is gonna take time. And then
the question is how much time is he going to
be granted, especially after Lebron leaves, because you will never

(22:26):
convince me that Lebron was not involved in that coaching search.
When it ends up being his podcast host that ends
up getting that job, I just I don't see it.
And then that leads to another question that I'm gonna
throw out there, and then we can go to break
and we can come back and we can address this
side of the issue as it relates to Reddick and

(22:48):
the Lakers. Is the guy that co hosts the podcast
gonna listen to the guy that hosts the podcast? One
in the suit? Is the one in the in the
basketball uniform? Going to listen to the one in the suit?
Because I think that might be the biggest question of all.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Okay, Jason, So in a minute, I want to talk
about these NFL quarterbacks. If it's just standard pressure that
they're under this season. You know a lot expected from quarterbacks.
You're the face of the franchise, so forth and so
on more times than not.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Are we talking extra pressure?

Speaker 4 (23:36):
No? It's funny, like you told me we were gonna
do this, and so I wrote down I'm not going
to give them to you. I wrote down to eight
guys that I feel like are in the extra pressure Cup.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Okay, I've got twelve in the extra pressure.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
You you may you probably will be able to sell
me on some more.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Okay, all right, we'll compare notes here in a second.
The stems from Trevor Lawrence. So the Jaguars quarterback, he
got a huge contract extension, five years, two hundred million
dollars guaranteed. That's what matters. The fancy numbers are five years,
two hundred and seventy five million, right, so fifty five
million dollars per year. That ties Joe Burrow with the

(24:12):
largest average annual salary in NFL history. Now, Trevor Lawrence says, hey,
this contract extension doesn't add any pressure. And his quote
is being a starting quarterback in this league is a
big responsibility and the team goes as you go.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
And I know that.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
So I'm not going to add any pressure to myself
just based on getting this contract. It doesn't really change
what I expect of myself and what the team expects
of me. I understand where he's coming from, Jason, but
that's within the Jaguars walls, you know what I mean.
Like from the outside of JAG's headquarters.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
This absolutely adds pressure.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
If he has a sub ninety passer rating this season
like he did last season. After getting this huge extension,
the scrutiny.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Just grows and grows.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh so, there's no doubt getting this type of extension,
which a lot of people thought they overpaid and that
sort of thing, if he underperforms on top of that,
he's just gonna get scrutinized that much more. I think
this absolutely adds pressure to him.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Yeah, so I think from the nuts and bolts perspective,
the money and saying he got overpaid, I kind of
shrugged my shoulders because we know what the salary cap
is doing year after year after year. That's going to
continue to grow with new TV deals and all of
those kinds of things. So I don't think that that
is really all that relevant. But in terms of the
pressure argument, I one hundred percent agree with you, and
I actually think that they're giving him the rubber stamp

(25:36):
basically saying you're the guy. So that adds some pressure.
The Jags were better not this past year, but the
year before, and then they regressed and then they paid
him anyway, But I still think he goes back to
what he was perceived to be coming into the NFL.
I think it was the way he was talked about
in his final year at Clemson, and he's the greatest

(25:56):
quarterback prospect since Andrew Luck and John Elway and all
those kinds of things. I think eventually those expectations have
to be you have to get closer to them, and
there's still way too many turnovers or things that don't compute.
And I definitely have dropped, Like, I still think he's
a really good player with the potential will be a
great player, but I do think his ceiling is a

(26:18):
little lower than maybe the perception was coming out of college.
So he's still having to dog the fact that he
was an overall number one pick. And I can't miss
who's now getting the extension and getting what everybody's gonna
look at and say, that's still an awful lot of money.
There has to be more pressure to actually do something
on the field with those things in mind.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, okay, So if you expand it beyond Trevor Lawrence,
and we're looking at all these quarterbacks in the NFL,
who is in the extra pressure category?

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Right?

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Like most all these quarterbacks have standard pressure. Every single
one of them has pressure to perform. That's obvious. But
we're talking an additional layer for this reason or that
there's an additional layer of pressure. Give me your AFC guys.
Let's start at the AFC. Who do you have in
that con?

Speaker 4 (27:10):
I got two guys to have extra, extra, extra extra pressure,
okay to me?

Speaker 3 (27:14):
All right, yeah, Josh Allen.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
And Justin Herbert Okay. And the reason why is because
eventually a guy get to a Super Bowl. If you're
Josh Allen, like you've been on the front of Madden,
everybody's talked about it being you and Mahomes despite the
fact that Mahomes wins it every time you guys play
in the playoffs. I think the one thing that you
still have going for you if you're Josh Allen is

(27:36):
you have Sean McDermott, and he can fall on the
sword first before you do. I think Josh Allen's really good,
but it hasn't translated in the playoffs. And this the
fact that the Bills have not cashed this into at
least reached one super Bowl. Eventually those questions are coming.
As good as he is, it doesn't necessarily translate into playoffs,

(27:56):
and so I think that's one. And then Justin Herbert, Okay,
So you get rid of b In Staley, which I
think was a year too late, and ah, well, you
wasted a year of justin Herbert's career. I mean, Herbert's
done nothing in the playoffs. So now you bring in
Jim Harball, there's gonna be more eyeballs than ever before
on that franchise because of that factor. Now it's going
to be on Herbert, because I don't think that Harball

(28:18):
is gonna take the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune here,
not at first. Herbert's actually got to do something, and
he's got to do it now without Keenan Allen. He's
got to do it with new guys coming in all
over the place. And so I think those two guys,
and I think you could throw maybe one more into
that list, but I'll stick with those two and let
you take it from there. Those are the two that
I look at and say, all right, you have to

(28:39):
do something this year.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Okay, I've got a handful of other guys in the
AFC extra pressure. I think Aaron Rodgers he's in the
extra pressure category. He only played four snaps last season,
you know what I mean, and he got hurt and
being in the Mecca right, being in New York City,
number one media market, and I think there were a
lot of comparisons with Tom Brady. Tom Brady went to

(29:03):
Tampa and won a freaking Super Bowl, you know what
I mean, Like he's got to have big success in
New York and so I think there's absolutely extra pressure
with Aaron Rodgers. I think there's extra pressure with Russell Wilson.
And I think there's a tendency to sort of just
like shrug your shoulders, like we know what the deal
is now, but this is his third team.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
I considered, I consider putting him on the list, Yeah,
because this is probably last chance sterritories.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, Like the way I look at it is he
crashed and burned in Denver.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
We all know that.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
But now with Pittsburgh, with Justin Fields on the same squad,
and a lot of people think he should be the starter.
If Russell Wilson underperforms, there could be a quick hook.
And we thought of him as a sure fire Hall
of Famer, and based on what happened in Denver, if
he flames out in Pittsburgh, also, you don't look at
Russ and think, oh, yeah, I mean still the strength

(29:55):
of what he did with Seattle for basically a decade.
He's absolutely got to be in Canton. I don't think
most people think of him like that, So there's additional
pressure for him to perform in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
Can I give you my third guy? Yeah, Lamar Lamar
the same reason as Josh Allen. It hadn't translated into
the playoffs. And it's not about play style or anything else.
It's just he hadn't reached the super Bowl yet, as
great as he's been, and I don't think there is
any denying that about him or Josh Allen hadn't reached
the super Bowl yet. I mean, Burrow you could throw on,

(30:27):
but Burrow's at least reached a super Bowl. Now he
has a big year in front of him too. I
know he has a lot of pressure because there's still
a lot of expectations in Cincinnati. But the Ravens just
keep going and getting more talent. The defense continues to
play well. John Harball is still an excellent head coach,
and they get in the playoffs and somehow the Ravens
get into a situation where Lamar goes outside of what

(30:48):
he's used to. They look like they kind of get
kind of frazzled and don't play their version of football
and get beat. And a lot of that has to
fall on Lamar considering the money he's making.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah, hey, I hear you on that.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
I've got on my AFC list to other guys, Deshaun
Watson and Tua.

Speaker 4 (31:05):
Yeah too, I had written down to by the.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Way, Yeah, tu was gonna get paid huge money. And
I think the popular perception of Tua is, yeah, he's
put up some regular season numbers, but do you really
trust this guy?

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Then?

Speaker 3 (31:19):
What has he done in the playoffs?

Speaker 4 (31:20):
By the way, I think the answer that question is no.
Most peo think, yeah, you're a Dolphins guy, do you
trust him?

Speaker 2 (31:26):
It's one of those It was so disappointing to see
what he didn't do against the Chiefs. And I know
it was the Ice Bowl in present day, but we're
talking about a screen pass. He couldn't complete screen passes
in that game. So he's got to do a lot
more on the playoff stage to earn trust, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
That's a different deal.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
And Deshaun Watson, we just look at him as they
gave you two hundred and thirty million dollars guaranteed and
what have the Browns gotten exactly.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
What they deserved?

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Well, And that's the thing is we look at the
Browns and that's a really, really good roster is.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
And it's the right take.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
They made it to the playoffs and we're good in
the playoffs with Joe Flacco, who came off the couch.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
You know. And so it's like, DeShawn, hello, is this
thing on? That type of thing?

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Two hundred and thirty million dollars guaranteed if they had
just a legitimate quarterback playing there, they'd be a team
making significant noise in the playoffs. And so far DeShawn
hasn't been that guy. There's absolutely extra pressure on him.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's for sure. I mean, think
about how you would feel about the Cleveland Browns, I mean,
outside of being like an AFC Nord fan or something
of another team had they not made the Deshaun Watson move.
And you look at the rest of that roster, the
Miles Garretts, the Nick Chubbs, I mean, Stefanski's not an
unlikable coach, like everything about them is positive. But then

(32:55):
that Deshon thing is a giant anchor man that is
draft on that franchise and the more mediocre to subpar
football he plays, the larger that spotlight grows in the
wrong direction.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Yeah, huge, huge season for him and that team.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
There's no doubt. All Right, NFC, who do you have
on your NFC list? We're looking at quarterbacks extra pressure,
an additional layer of pressure, not just the standard quarterback
pressure that exists.

Speaker 4 (33:23):
Well, I didn't write him down first, but if you're there,
if you are the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys, you're
going to have a ton of pressure. So I think
Dak has to be there. The first guy I wrote down, though,
was brock Perty And reason why is because everybody thinks
the forty nine ers are fully formed and they again
get to a Super Bowl and they don't win it.

(33:44):
But because of where Purdy was drafted, he's always going
to have added pressure because he's always going to have
to prove himself to people who are who are going
to point to every poor performance he has and immediately say, yep,
this is why he was mister irrelevant. Even though he's
won a lot of games in the A League and
he's done a lot of good things, it's never going
to be enough to erase that and so when you
have all the talent around you that they do, and

(34:07):
everybody you know kneels at the football altar of Kyle
Shanahan as well, then a lot of that pressure is
going to fall on you. So I think perty is
probably top of my list.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, I'm with you on both. Dak is obvious and
Dak has put up numbers. They just haven't had playoff
success and that's a huge thing, a box that hasn't
been checked on the old quarterback resume. And right when
you're the Cowboys quarterback, everything you do is going to
be scrutinized. And I agree with Bertie. Every little thing
that he does is going to be dissected. And look,

(34:41):
I'll be honest, I've been critical of Perty too. I
think he's good. I've never said he's a dud. He's good.
I just don't think he's a difference maker. And that's
the separation right there. When he had to make the
play in the Super Bowl and had some opportunities, he
didn't make it, And I thought that overall he played
pretty well in that game. But that's the separation. When

(35:04):
Mahomes is making special plays, he's a difference maker. That's
not where perty is. I have a couple other guys
on my list in the NFC. I would go Caleb Williams,
Kirk Cousins, Bryce Young.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
Yeah. See you Actually there was one other NFC guy
that I had mentioned. You didn't put him on the list.
But by the way that kirk Cousins won, I agree
with just because of the other guy in the building,
regardless of whether or not he's going to be a
thing in the NFL or not. The fact that they
used a top ten pick yep on your position. That
immediately puts pressure on you. That's right, that immediately changes everything.

(35:40):
But the other name I put on there and then
we get back to yours is Jalen Hurts. Because the
Eagles were not the team people thought they were going
to be last year. They're bringing in a new coordinator.
We've got to see what's happening with Sirianni. But there's
a lot of new stuff that is being implemented there.
Hurts got paid as he deserved to be, but there

(36:00):
is a lot of expectation now that the Eagles get
back to being on the cusp of a Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, now that's an interesting one. The two I like
what you said about Kirk Cousins. Man, when you go
Michael Pennix junior with a top ten pick, and it's like,
oh wow, yeah, it is the dynamic completely. The deal
with Caleb Williams, I think it's a bit like Brock
Purdy just in terms of the scrutiny. Right, every little

(36:29):
tiny thing Caleb Williams does or says is going to
be picked a part.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
That's just the way.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
He's a lightning rod and people are fixated on every
little move he makes, and so he's got extra pressure
as a rookie. There's no doubt. And I think Bryce
Young with the Panthers, Man, think about this. You rewind
the last year, so c J. Stroud was amazing. The
Panthers could have had him, they didn't take him. They
took Bryce Young. Now, all of a sudden, one of

(36:58):
the picks used to leap up to get Bryce Young
is Caleb Williams with the Bears. So if Caleb plays
well and Bryce Young still isn't, now it becomes wow,
So CJ. Stroud is the truth. Caleb Williams is playing well,
and here we have stuck with Bryce Young. We had
to give up all this draft compensation to get a

(37:19):
guy who's underperforming, so his reputation is starting to be formed,
and there is extra pressure with all of those layers
on him to perform this season.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
Yeah, I mean that's true. I mean, if you're the
first overall pick, it's always gonna be that way. But
we've also been talking about Kayleb Williams since Oklahoma and
so he, very similar to Trevor Lawrence, has been in
the spotlight for a long time and there are people
vested on both sides of that that want to see
it crash and burn and succeed, and so there's gonna
be a real I don't think there's gonna be a

(37:49):
lot of neutral takes on Caleb Williams. I think you're
either gonna love him or not, and I think that
it's probably already ingrained in you before you even watch
him play, and so I think that's probably part of
this is Well, you could throw, even though like I
think he would get another chance either way, but like
you could throw like a Daniel Jones or somebody like that,

(38:09):
because I don't think they're quite in Russell Wilson territory
in terms of last chance. But the jury is it's
it's out. But in terms of like the confidence level
in a Daniel Jones is pretty low, and there's other
guys in the league that probably qualify there as well.
The only other one that I considered, even though I
don't think he was, he was a problem for them

(38:30):
last year. You know, Jared Goff got paid.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Yeah, Detroit's not It's not gonna be all right now
for Detroit to go back to being Detroit, Like Detroit
needs to be this new Detroit that is a feature
and is a contender and all this and that. That's
another name that I throw out and just say, yeah,
there's there's a lot on him, just because now there
is actual expectation there.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, it's interesting, man, And I think sometimes it turns
into it's not just hey, you haven't won playoff games.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
And that's a big part of addition. Pressure is you
got to perform.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
If you're one of the top quarterbacks, you got to
get it done in the playoffs. But going back to
the first guy that you mentioned, Josh Allen with the
Bills supporting cast is a big deal. He doesn't have
Stefan Diggs anymore. So you got Kean Coleman, who could
be good. But he's a rookie and you've got Khalil
Shakir and it's like, okay, that's my leading receiver right now.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Yeah, but you're Josh Allen, so you're supposed to be
a difference make. That's what I mean is he's not
going to get the benefit of the doubt just because
they lost that. What they're going to say is, oh, well,
I mean, what was he before Stefan Diggs gott.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
That's right, that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Underperforming Stefan Diggs made Josh Allen And yeah, so you're
supporting cast. But this way he doesn't have what Joe
Burrow has around him as a supporting cast. And the
funny thing is no one cares and no one will.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
Talk about it.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
They'll just say, get it done somehow, some way, Josh Allen.
So yeah, there's extra pressure there.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Good stuff.
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