September 8, 2026 • 52 mins
Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci talk about Aaron Judge and Shohei Ohtani being the biggest stories in baseball right now. Ohtani will not prepare to pitch but the biggest concern is his hitting slump at the plate. Aaron Judge is cleared to return and Tom notes how well Judge performs in Yankee Stadium. Why are the Brewers such a fun team to watch? Tom explains why it may seem like every pitcher is throwing 100mph.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there and welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's the Book of Joe podcast with me, Tom Berducci,
and of course, Joe Madden. And Joe, in a minute,
I want to talk about the best team in baseball.
But it's funny how We're getting back to where we
began this season. If you got your Sports Illustrated baseball
preview issue, you saw Shohei Otani and Aaron Judge on
(00:38):
the cover. It took me a long time to make
that happen, Joe, but we got them together. It was
the first time they got a picture together in the
same place. And here we are with three weeks left
in the season, and they're the major storylines. Otani, because
he is done pitching for the year, and Judge, because
he is back in in the Yankees lineup this week
(01:00):
for the first time in more than three months. Joe,
let me start with Otani because in some ways the
news is good for the Dodgers because he's not going
to try to get himself in shape to pitch again.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That seemed to be holding him back both physically and offensively.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
But on the same token, man, I kind of miss
the two-way show and how much fun that was last year.
So show a really has been slumping his last 96
at bats he's got like 19 hits or something really
struggling for a few weeks uh give me your take
on Shohei Joe because I think the Dodgers they listen
(01:38):
they're a deep lineup but they need Shohei to be
an impact hitter and he hasn't been that hitter here for.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
The last couple of weeks but he will um I
really believe that I haven't watched enough to know with
the problem is normally when he gets in trouble he
gets in a pull mode real heavy pull mode he
gets a lot of rollover ground balls I don't know
if that's what's going on maybe a little bit of
chase comes part of that too and if he's been
seeing more left-handers with good stuff in the latter part
(02:04):
of the game that all normally would be the equation
I think however I don't care I mean when it
gets really important he's going to show up obviously there
you look at them and they've It almost is like
they've been mediocre all season, yet they are where they're
at within the standings and what they're going to do
in the playoffs, et cetera. So, yeah, I just have
(02:25):
so much faith in this guy. Too bad about the pitching.
I think in some ways that might be gnawing at
him a bit.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I'm not sure. However, whatever he's doing right now, okay.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
But just heads up because that just means the numbers
are going to come back to him at some point.
He's going to find that little slot. And all of
a sudden the balls, when he starts flying to center field,
left center field, like more to the middle of the field, far,
that's when he gets really good.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Is there any argument to just put him on the IL?
Shohei talked to the media after the game Monday night. And,
you know, he basically said, listen, I can't completely heal
while I'm playing in games.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But at the same time, I want to help this team.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Um offensively he just doesn't look the same because he
has not been healthy it's been a series of injuries
i mean it's been neck it's been elbow it's been
uh the knee biceps you name it um just not
explosive in the box um i'm assuming as they always
do the dodgers check with shohei he knows himself so
(03:26):
well that this is the best course moving forward you
mentioned the dodgers position it is important for them to
make sure they don't play in the first round, get
one of the top two seeds. I'm sure they've thought
about giving Shohei two weeks off completely to just heal.
But in this case, I guess, Joe, you've had him
as a player. You defer to Shohei and knowing his body.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, he's really altruistic with this whole thing. I mean,
he knows when he's in the lineup, the team is better.
He knows that. It's not in a cocky way.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
It's just fact.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And he's there to play baseball and he's there to
play every day. That's just what he signed up to do.
So that's part of the makeup. That's just who he is.
He's got this strong sense of duty and he's got
to be there and he's got to play, et cetera.
So I, again, I hear what you're saying regarding all
the different injuries, the little forest fires, little campfires that
(04:23):
he's got going on within his body. However, dang, I just,
I have to be in the room with them, talk
to them. I mean, I always felt we had a
good conversation. I'm sure they do there now with David
and Andrew and everybody else. Just sit in a room,
and not a crowded room, just him, you, maybe another guy,
not many, and just find out exactly what's going on
(04:44):
and try to come to the best conclusion on how
to move this thing forward. Because after all, their ultimate
goal is to win the World Series again. So if
that does require some time off, that would so be it.
But Again, I have always listened to him. He's always
been straight up in the past, and I don't think
that's going to change right now.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Well, he's got a lot of time, I think, between
now and when the Dodgers play, especially if they get
a first-round bye in the postseason. So I do expect
he'll be much better than he's been the last three
weeks without having to even kind of the mental drain
of trying to prepare himself to pitch again and get back.
And it is, and you've seen it firsthand, I don't
(05:22):
think people can appreciate what it takes for him in
between starts, get himself ready to pitch. The recovery it
takes pitchers at the same time you're going out there
as the DH and getting on base, you know, 40%
of the time. It's been a grind. So simplifying it,
I think you probably will see the best of Shohei.
It may take a bit, you know, but I do
(05:43):
think you're right, Joe, as we get to October, he'll
be the same old Shohei. The same old Aaron Judge.
What can we expect, Joe? This guy now has missed
more than three months of the season. There's no minor
league rehab. He did not want to go out. As
you know, Joe, in today's world, you have these traject
machines that can simulate major league pitching.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
You get in there and hit off of that. He
did hit off the field on Monday.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Actually did a couple of times on the road trip
to the West Coast. So no minor league rehab assignments
for Aaron Judge. It's, you know, no, no balls in
the range. Just get up there on the first tee
and get, let it, let it fly.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
What can we expect of Aaron judge after missing more
than three months?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I still like, listen, they, they're all the players are
dictating this and they don't think they need to do whatever,
but the rehab is not, it's just beyond just reps
at the, in the batter's box. It's about ups and
downs themselves. If he, is he going to play the outfield?
If he is, it's just, you know, standing on your
feet for that many innings. I mean, a lot of the,
When we did rehab with anybody, position players, you would
(06:49):
always break them in slowly, especially when he's been out
as long as he has. You would come back maybe
three innings, then five innings, then seven innings, then nine innings,
and you would have a DH day in between that. Now,
I know they consider that not important anymore, but we'll
find out. I mean, I'm sure he's been staying in
shape as much as he can, whatever, but the injury
did kind of slow his whole body down. So that's
(07:11):
part of it that nobody talks about enough is just
the physical issues strain of being up and down. And
I'm here to tell you, folks, I know baseball players,
you think, stand around a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Maybe they do, or we did.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
However, if you're an everyday major league player, that really
wears your butt down. And if you talk about the catching,
that's a whole different situation. So I think that has
to be considered also, I would expect, regarding the machines, whatever.
It's all about timing, because that's just one speed coming
at you that gets you ready for velocity. But that's
the Warren Spahn thing, hitting is timing, pitching is the
(07:45):
upsetting of timing, and that's harder to replicate, and I
know the machines could vary that. I get all that,
but it's just different.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
It just is.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
My experience has been sometimes, or many times, if I
remember correctly, and sometimes you think you do, but you don't,
that he may come out hot. He may come out hot,
but then you kind of settle in after maybe a
week or 10 days, just based on the other things,
like your body all of a sudden starts getting sore, tired,
quicker than because I just haven't built back up, uh,
(08:14):
like I would in spring training.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
And that's where spring training is so important.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And in my mind's eye, spring training is not too long.
So that's the, uh, that's what I'm seeing right now.
That's what I think.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So that's my concern where my concerns would lie.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Uh, really good points, Joe, because I think the average
fan doesn't understand that, that being out there in spikes
on the field for, you know, two and a half
to three hours, night after night after night, um, It
sounds crazy, but there has to be some sort of
training for that. You just don't do it after not
doing it for three months. That's one of the concerns. Now,
(08:49):
Aaron Boone has talked about they're going to have to
decide whether you play him a game, arrest him, play
him a game, arrest him, and then back him up
two in a row. Or maybe you just play him
for five innings and then six innings and then seven innings.
That's sort of, they're trying to decide what is the
best course forward with Aaron Judge. It's interesting to see
(09:12):
how they'll put some governors on him, at least in
the first week or two in playing time. And then
you mentioned playing the outfield. Aaron Judge wants to play
the outfield. There's no question about it. I think with
a left-handed starter, if and when they face left-handed starter,
I think he will be the DH because you can
sit Luis Garcia Jr.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Hasn't really hit lefties. so Rice plays first base.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But I do think he's, for the majority of the time,
Aaron Judge is going to be in right field for
the Yankees. And I've got some concerns about that, short
and long term, Joe. I think at 6'8, in his mid-30s,
and you look at his injury history, almost all of
his injuries have been related to playing defense.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
They've talked to him about being, quote-unquote, smart on defense.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I mean, when this guy leaves his body at 280 pounds,
uh we've seen it we've seen it a couple of
times uh you know bad things can happen and he
said he's going to be smart and i get it
you don't have john carlos stanton back this year um
but but i do think longer term the yankees are
gonna have to think about getting him more reps uh
as a dh as much as he doesn't want to
(10:17):
do that and he is a really good right fielder
um But I do think, Joe, your general point here
is that a guy's coming off the I.L. after missing
three and a half months of baseball. He's going right
back in with a minor league assignment. Handling the physical
side of it on a night after night basis, it'll
be it'll be a challenge for the Yankees.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
More than you know, I mean, if they if they
want to do the break him in kind of slowly
thing on a major league level, that could be problematic, too.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I'm sure they would start him.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And if you want to go three, five, seven, whatever
they want to do, if in fact they do that,
they're you're still going to possibly miss out at the
end of the game when it's really important too, although
every at-bat is important.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
You know, you can score your, what is it, I.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Think the winning team normally scores more runs in one
inning than the losing team scores all game. I think
it's been a stat out of the past that I remember.
So there's no saying that the latter part of the
game is more important than the first part. You could
win a game on the first swing, the first at-bat
of the game, won nothing, whatever. So I don't really
necessarily buy that. It's just a matter of, You don't
(11:18):
want to bring him off the bench and try to
figure out how to have him play in the latter
part of the game. I think the warm-up period for that,
what he's doing in the clubhouse, would be very uncomfortable
for him. It's not what he's used to doing. It's
just not part of the fabric there. So interesting.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
We'll watch it.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I guess they're figuring we'd rather have at least two
or three at-bats out of Judge here and take him
out of the game as opposed to have none out
of him and have him go play in Wilkes-Barre, Scranton
for a bit, and then come back in a week.
So they're trying to analytically establish what's the better thing
for them to do regarding potential production. Even if it's
(11:56):
more limited now with us, it's better than if he's not.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Here at all.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
By the way, the Yankees, while Judge was out, they
went 45-39. That's pretty darn good. That's a testament to
how good their pitching has been. I mean, the Yankees'
pitching has just been spectacular this year. During that time,
Judge was out six games over. 500 while hitting.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
227.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
They were the second worst offensive team in baseball while
he was out ahead of only the Angels.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So it's a credit.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
This Yankees team overall, Joe, if you look at them
in a postseason environment, is a different Yankee team.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
This is a team, even with Judge there.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I think is going to rely more on their pitching,
especially their starting pitching, to try to get through multiple
rounds of the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And when you, when a guy like that goes down
and everybody's, where do we replace his numbers? Sometimes you
replace it in other ways. You catch the ball. I
don't know to what extent Lombard has helped. I don't
even know what the record is. I know he's been
hurt more recently, but you got to catch the ball
and you got to pitch it really well in order to,
I think, make up for the loss of a guy
(13:07):
like that.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
He's really hard to replace.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Normally when you get, when you do, lose a player
of Judge's caliber, which is like the highest, and let's
even go the rung below that, somebody that's really significantly good,
you're normally going to try to platoon that somehow. And
that's still difficult to get that proper matchup, going to
platoon advantages that's like to be referred to today. So yeah,
(13:31):
all those things are factored in play. Good for them,
bully for them. But when your guy goes down, it's really,
for me, important to pitch it and catch it to
make up for whatever the lack of his offense may.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Show up as.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well, this week the Yankees get the Rockies and the
Mets at home.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Aaron Judge, by the way, has had 596 career games
at Yankee Stadium. So he's going to get to 600
career games at Yankee Stadium.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I took a look at this. He has 199 homers
in 596 games at Yankee Stadium. 172 games, 199 homers.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So he hits a home run basically almost one out
of every three games that he plays at Yankee Stadium,
which is absolutely crazy. Looking at the highest slugging percentage
in any ballpark all time for guys that played at
least 600 games in a ballpark. Number one, no surprise,
Babe Ruth, the house that Ruth built, right? Yankee Stadium, 697.
(14:31):
Number two, Hank Greenberg at Briggs Stadium, Tiger Stadium. Number
three is Jimmy Foxx at the old Scheib Park in Philly.
Number four is Ted Williams at Fenway Park. And number
five is Aaron Judge at Yankee Stadium. Ruth Greenberg, Fox, Williams, Judge.
(14:51):
That's the company this guy keeps. I mean, he is
so dangerous at Yankee Stadium. And this is not going
to surprise you, Joe. Looking at where he hits his
home runs at Yankee Stadium, he has more home runs
to the opposite field than he does to the pole
side or straight away.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
I was going to ask you that, I swear.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I mean, as you were describing all this, especially the
new Yankee Stadium, it was still part of it in
the old Yankee Stadium, but the new stadium, really that
right field porch and.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Bully for him. I mean, that makes you a better hitter.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
It's probably a part of why he's be, you know, overall,
he's a really good hitter, not just a good power hitter.
When you have a righty or lefty, it's just like,
what was it? What was green?
Speaker 4 (15:36):
The guy with the red socks, the outfielder green.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Mike Greenwell, left-handed hitter.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, he wore it out. I thought Mo Vaughn wore
it out.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I don't think Ted did.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
But to get that opposite field attraction, it's big in
regards to making you a better hitter.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
And I think it did it with him. I've always
believed that.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Opposite field gap to me as a young hitting coach.
When I get guys that can do that, I really– God,
that would just turn me on. I can say Garrett Anderson,
Jimmy Edmonds, Timmy Salmon, even a fellow by the name
of Bobby Rosa. Bobby probably brought up Bobby in the past.
He ended up playing a lot in Japan. Really good hitter.
But coming up to the Angel organization, we had some guys.
(16:19):
We had some really nice guys even back in the
80s and 90s. And as a hitting coach, if I
had a young hitter, Damian Easley, that could drive the
opposite field gap, damn, that was just like that really
perked me up because I thought, as it's easier to
teach somebody to pull the ball than it is to
really drive oppo gap. And if you drive oppo gap,
you have better plate coverage, more difficult to mess with
(16:41):
as a pitcher, et cetera, et cetera. So good for him.
Good for him for taking advantage of it. But I
was wondering that as you started bringing up those numbers.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And speaking of Ted Williams, I got a real good
comp for you. Kyle Schwarber and Ted Williams, what they
have in common. But first, I mentioned we need to
talk about the best team in baseball. And it's not
the Los Angeles Dodgers. We'll do that right after this
on The Book of Joe. Welcome back to The Book
(17:21):
of Joe. Joe, you must watch the Milwaukee Brewers play
baseball and have a flashback to some of your raised teams.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I mean, how fun are they to watch?
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Don't you love it?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
You know, and I know Murph real well, and we've
had so many good conversations, he and I, and you
watch them play, and it's the right way to play.
That style of baseball never gets old. That replenishes itself. Annually,
they do rely on great pitching. Got some good bullpen dudes,
but it's just the effort and the mindset with which
(17:53):
they play. I mean, for me, like, if you get
an opportunity to manage today and today's game, if your
first spring training day With your position players, I would
ask them.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
To do one thing and one.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I would really believe in something I've done in the past.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Run hard to first base. Make good turns.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Let's go first to third, second to home, first to home,
on the ball and the gap. These are the kind
of things. Defensively, I need you to give me really
good work on defense every day. Anything, the small ball component, okay,
you three guys, you're going to probably be hitting in
the bottom of the batting order. I need you to
move the baseball. I need you to really understand the
safety squeeze. et cetera, et cetera. These are the kind
(18:32):
of things that they kick you in the shins. And
when you have shin kickers, it's a pain in the
butt on a nightly basis. They're very hard to prepare against.
They adapt and adjust during the course.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Of the game.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
They play with the mindset. I mean, you talk about culture,
and everybody laughs at that. I mean, when you use
the word culture, what does that mean? Well, I'll tell
you what it means. You have a method of operation
that everybody buys into. That's what culture is. And that's
what they got. That's what they got. You can look
at other teams. and non-successful teams annually, and they got
none of that.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
They don't have a, like when you walk into there.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Here comes Tom Perducci walking into the Brewers locker room,
and you just either got traded there, you've just been
brought up, and you say you do something off-color towards
the rest of the group, and somebody's going to walk
up to you and say, listen, Tom, we don't do
that here. And that's really important when you get people
that are able to, not the manager, not even the
coaching staff within the group, they say, we don't.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Do that here.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
That's not how we played here. When you get guys being,
and I'm sure Yelich is one of those guys.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
There in Milwaukee. That is valuable.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
God, is that invaluable. So that's what they got. Besides
a manager that knows what he knows and he's not
afraid to answer tough questions or whatever. He's a doorknob, man.
He's blunt. He's straightforward. And that's all good. And that's
why they're so successful. And yes, that's why I like
(19:55):
watching them.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, you're absolutely right about Yelich, by the way. He
absolutely is one of those guys. And that culture you
talk about, it only works when you have the right
manager who's able to establish it and maintain it and
make sure you remind players what's important. And you're absolutely
right that Murph is that guy. And it's kind of
like you, he's not afraid to sit people and to
(20:18):
let people know when they have not met the standard
of the organization.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And he will call players out. And I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And there's too much, I call it kowtowing if you want,
but there's too much, you know, stroking of players when
they do wrong and not holding that accountable doesn't mean
you have to insult them, but it means you, do
have to make them aware that you're below the standard
that we've established. And Murph is able to do that.
I think that's why he's such a good manager. And also,
(20:47):
he can play a style of baseball, as you referenced there, Joe.
A lot of teams can't because his players have bought in.
So if he asks a guy to bunt, the guy
is not going to say, why are you asking me
to bunt?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
He's going to say, this is what we do to
win a ballgame.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So you know I've been big for the last five,
six years, Joe, on you need power to win a
World Series. And it certainly has played out that way.
The Milwaukee Brewers are last in the major leagues in
home runs. They're trying to do something that hasn't been
done since 2015 Kansas City Royals. And that's win a
World Series with like bottom of the barrel power. I'm
talking about bottom five in Major League Baseball. It just
(21:24):
has not happened in today's game where there are fewer hits.
But you look at the way the Brewers play and
it's not just bunting, of course. they steal bases or
second and stolen bases. They're actually third and runs because
they have a high on base percentage. They take walks,
they move runners, they steal bases. They turn singles into doubles.
I watched their game Monday. I'm not sure if you
(21:45):
caught it, Joe against Craig council, Chicago Cubs.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And by the way, they absolutely own the Cubs.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
They just won the season series, which means their eight
game lead in the division is essentially a nine game
lead because a tiebreaker would go to Milwaukee and The
Cubs just can't get by the Brewers. I mean, they
had a game in hand with Matthew Boyd.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
On the mound.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Council tried to stretch Boyd as long as he could,
lead off walking the eighth inning up one, but he
left them out there.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
And before you know it, you know, the fire is lit,
and here they come.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
The Cubs' bullpen has been an absolute problem for Craig Council,
and the Brewers win the game.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
But how they won the game is interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Jackson Churio gets up there with two runners on base, second, third,
with Ryan Zephyrjohn on the mound throwing a billion. He
takes a 99 mile an hour fastball above the strike
zone with two strikes. And he absolutely tomahawks it. He
had to be looking for this, Joe, the way he
got on it. And he punches an opposite field ground
(22:45):
ball single to right field. It's one of the most
amazing things I've seen. 99 above the strike zone. This year, hitters,
when they see a fastball 99 plus out of the
strike zone, above the strike zone, We're hitting 065. And
this guy not only gets on top of it, he
just pushes a base hit on the ground to right
(23:06):
field to run score. Then he steals second base. And
then a couple more walks and then a sacrifice fly.
It was the way the Brewers play baseball.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
It was just so much fun to watch.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
As you said, I'd like to think that this this formula.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Can win multiple rounds in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
The other thing, Joe, I want to get your thoughts
on this is obviously the Miz is incredible, right?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And you love it whenever he gets the ball.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
They're 14 and five when he takes the ball. The
stuff maybe is down a slight tick in the last
four or five start. Nothing to worry about. But beyond that,
you've got Logan Henderson. You've got Kyle Harrison, who's really
hit a wall here at the end of the season.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
They're thinking about. using him either as a bullpen or.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Just as a short start guy with a bulk guy
behind him, they're not going to line up three, four deep.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So, listen, their bullpen is great. I get it.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
But they're going to have to beat you very unconventionally
when it comes to especially a seven-game series.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I guess we're talking about analog baseball.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Very much so.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
I'm sitting here listening to you go through the litany of– Oh,
they're pluses, and it's just analog stuff, man.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
It's stuff you could feel. You could see it.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's nothing hidden in a report that somehow is directed
towards the players before the game. You're describing real baseball. Yes,
that's who they are. That is their culture. And I
did happen to just see the video of the latter
part of the game. And the thing about when Cheerios
(24:44):
hit the single, were the– Cubs up by one or
two runs.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
At that point.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, the Cubs were up by one run. No outs.
Second and third, they played the infield in. Ultra aggressive move.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, I saw that, and I was kind of, I
don't know, that's a tough one. I mean, I understand
you're trying to win the game, and maybe you're trying
to take a chance there, but with zero outs, that's tough.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
See, the thing is, you don't want.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
To lose the lead right there, and you'd have to
really watch that in person and And again, knowing that
they didn't like their bullpenner's part, there's all kinds of
a myriad of different reasons that went into that decision
right there, not just obviously the infield was playing in.
There was a lot of thought put into that, I'm sure.
So I found that curious but understandable under different circumstances.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, I think, Joe, he must be thinking that, you know,
we don't even want a tie game here.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
With our bullpen against their bullpen, we're going to lose
that match. We're on the road.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So the other team's going to get the last at bat.
I think it was throwing all the chips on the table.
It was a very risky move, but as you said,
I kind of get some of the unconventional reasons why
you might be super aggressive there.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
I might have done the same thing.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
That's what I was trying to, you know, I was
looking at all that, and from the video, I couldn't
tell outs and the exact score, so you clarified that
for me. So, yes, there is some gray area there
as to why you would want to do it as
opposed to, Playing back, because I was really aggressive about
playing the infield in, even in the first inning.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
That run counts. That run matters.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
And if you have a sinker ball pitcher up there,
and if I play my infield in, and all of
a sudden we cut the run down at the plate
or the guy doesn't go, that's one less run for them.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
We have to make up later part of the game.
I can't remember how.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Many times post-game I would think, okay, how did that
run factor into the game where they didn't score it?
And oftentimes it was huge. So it's a one-run league, man.
You've got to win those one-run games in. They talk
about bullpens being the mitigating factor regarding winning.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Or losing one-run games.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
A lot of times it might be an innocuous decision
like that early that you've got to go back to
and realize that that was really a big factor. Mizoroski
and the rest of the group, yeah, I mean, I
didn't realize Henderson was struggling right now.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
But anyway, they can back off a couple of these
guys a little bit.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
What next superstar they have waiting in the wings to
drop in there. But I do believe, I have a
lot of faith that they will. They may have to
downshift a little bit right now, and they'll do it properly.
But the team on the field, man, they are. They
are swarmers. They're like the 2002 Angels, which is one
of my favorite teams ever, regarding just swarm, swarm. I
(27:29):
don't know how many times we batted around the batting order.
We had some pop, but my God, did we put
the ball in play. It's just a really healthy way
to play the game of baseball, and it can be
taught to any group, not just the Brewers or whatever.
It can be taught to any group to play the
game that way. It requires, like you suggested, a steady hand,
(27:51):
staying on top of things. Don't permit things to fester
when they're not going well or somebody wants to go rogue.
Don't permit that. You've got to call them on it
right now. Back of the neck, no, we don't do
that here. So that's what they're doing. They'll figure it out.
They'll downshift, and then they'll shift back up to sixth gear,
and they're going to be fine.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I want to see those Brewers alternate uniforms that say
shin kickers on them.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
That would be awesome.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
That's pretty sweet, yes. I love shin kickers. I love
shin kickers, man.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
You just have to be careful saying it. That's all.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
I was very careful before I said it.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, and how about those guys in the ninth inning
protecting that lead? Of course, PCA Pete Crow Armstrong did
hit number 41. Just crazy that he just turned around
McGill's fastball.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
But Luis Lara in right field makes a catch at
the wall.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I don't know if it was going out, but it
was just an incredible athletic catch, well-timed at the wall.
And then Jackson Chirio ends the game with a diving
catch in left field. The corner outfielders are, what, 22
and 21 years old.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I mean, it's just crazy. But athleticism... galore.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
On that team garrett mitchell in center field is an
absolute beast athletically uh that that's one of the better
outfielders about outfields i've seen boston i know has a
great one too but um they can beat you in
a lot of different ways and and don't sleep on
their defense as.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Well absolutely i i love that stuff i gosh a
good outfield i mean reminiscing recently with somebody you know
even like i was so fortunate with the angels when
you had garrett uh timmy And Jimmy Anderson, and here
comes Darren Erstad, Sashang into the mix. You look at
the Mariners, they had Griffey and Buhner, and all of
a sudden Vince Coleman shows up, and all of a
(29:39):
sudden they overtake you. There were so many good outfields. outfields,
not outfielders, back in, I think in the 90s, 80s
and 90s. I'd like to sit down and start writing
the names out per outfield. Compared to now, I mean, now,
you know, I don't know that they're as dominant outfielders
(30:01):
as they're supposed to be. That was a dominant position
was outfield. That's where you wanted, you know, of course
your center fielder had to play defense, but your corner
guys had to bang. And there was a lot of
that going on. And so the names you mentioned here
with Milwaukee, and of course the Red Sox have really.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Picked it up.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
But a lot of times you'll just see outfielders like,
you know, platoon advantage outfielders out there as opposed to
guys that just do it on a daily basis.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
And that was the thing.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
And every time you write that lineup down, you wanted
bangers out there, man. You wanted guys that could, you know,
change the game around very quickly. I don't know that, again,
we've talked about this before, where they've taken outfielders and
put them on the infield at shortstop, whatever, because they
want more offense out of that position. I don't know
if that has something to do with it or not.
But give me like an outfield group that can run
(30:50):
it down, really run it down, and could bang it
a little bit. Because when you write those names down,
whenever I had to put 7, 8, 9, you know,
the positionality in my batting order as I'm writing down
a lineup. And I saw particularly 7 and 9 towards
the bottom of the batting order.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
I didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I got a question for you about managers and body
language because the camera loves Craig Council, especially when he
plays the Milwaukee Brewers. And you know, Joe, there's nothing
more challenging for a manager than when you have a
bullpen that you don't fully trust, that you're not sure
where the answers are. And the end game for the
Chicago Cubs right now is certainly in flux.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
You don't have certainty.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
You really love that just kind of plug and play,
whether it's 7-8-9 or even if it's just 8-9. It
doesn't matter who's batting, where the lineup is. You know
where you're ending the game. The Cubs don't have that.
And they really haven't had it all year. And the
camera loves Craig Council because he wears his emotions on
his sleeve. It reminds me of when Larry Boa was
(31:55):
managing the Phillies. Uh, the camera would always find him.
You know, Craig is going to go back down to
the tunnel. He thinks he is out of camera view,
but that's not the case in today's game. Uh, you know,
he's talking to anybody who's next to him. He's shaking
his head. He's running his fingers through his hair. You
can almost see that the anxiety and the pain he's
going through his game slip away.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
As a manager. Joe, were you aware of that? Listen, I,
everybody has to be who they are. And I'm not
saying it's a bad thing at all.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Um, But I know a lot of players have told me,
especially relief pitchers, you never want to let the other
team see you sweat. Being a manager, do you feel
responsible for your body language? I did.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I do. But it was easy for me because that's
just how I was. You're so lost in your own thoughts,
and you just know things are going to go awry.
I might say something under my breath to somebody standing
next to me, but the last thing I wanted to
do was to– demonstrate, obviously, physically, either joy is another
(32:59):
part of it. You could smile, but I used to
watch other dugouts. And this is where it really came
obvious to me. When I was a roving instructor, as
a roving instructor in the middle, late 80s into the
early 90s, you get to go to a different team
every five days, six days, something like that. And I
would always watch the other team's managers. Because that's what
(33:20):
I wanted to do. And it was really obvious to me,
the stoic guys, you never knew what they were thinking.
And the other guys that you always knew what they
were thinking. And like you just said, I don't know
if it's good or bad or indifferent.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I don't even know what it is.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
But I kind of respected and admired those that I
never knew what they were thinking. That was a guy
that you just didn't know, obviously. That's just what I'm saying.
You just didn't know where this dude was coming from.
And you didn't know if he really was on. You're
going to give him credit for being on top of things.
as because he's not emotional. So that's just the way
(33:53):
I've always was. And I watch, you know, I watch
celebratories coming in, high-fiving managers, high-fiving hitters coming in. Listen,
I would shake somebody's hand, I'd pat them on the butt, whatever.
But I'm always into the next pitch. What's going on now?
Whatever's happening right now. So to me, I was always aware, hyper-aware,
(34:14):
like I said, this goes back to the 80s, of
I don't want the other team to see me one
way or another, it's got to be absolutely a flat
line or neutral. And I thought that was the best
way to go about it. And that was my best
way to maintain my level of focus and concentration regarding
what was going on and how I can stay there.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
It makes sense to me. And again, council has to
be who he is. I, of course, what I want,
first of all, is authenticity.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It just, it's a good perspective, Joe, about not giving
anything away because you can see that game slipping away
from Craig council. And I, if you're in Milwaukee and
you looked on across the other side, you're thinking we
got them, we got them right where we want them.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
But again, that's a function of the bullpen.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
You worried about Chicago as a playoff team, especially when
it comes to their pitching.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Yeah. I mean, yes, in general.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yes. I mean, they've, they've had their real hot and
hots and colds. I mean, they've, they've been like a faucet.
I mean, once you run and turn it to one side,
it's extremely hot. Then it gets extremely cold. I mean,
Bregman's really picked it up, which is wonderful. I mean, Pete,
I'd love to see Pete continue this into the postseason.
My God, he's at that point every time he swings
(35:24):
the bat, it looks like it's a homer.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
And it's short and it's quick and it's precise.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Suzuki's done okay, whatever, but I believe that Armstrong and
Bregman are really going to have to sustain what they've
been doing. I like Bush in a very quiet way.
We're talking offense. They do catch the ball, no doubt
about it, and that's a big part of them. But
a bullpen, and anybody asks me about the 2016 Cubs,
I say we cannot win that without a Roldis Chapman,
(35:51):
and that is an absolute fact. Without him, without Mariano Rivera,
I mean, the Yankees weren't as dominant because Rivera made
everybody before him better. That would be my biggest concern
if I'm the Cubbies going into this whole thing.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
How do we finish games?
Speaker 3 (36:05):
With the Rays in 2008, we started the season with Percy,
Troy Percival. He was older, and he got hurt, and
eventually we were bullpenned by a committee. We got to
the series... But it wasn't easy. And then it was
Grant Balfour and J.P. Howell. Danny Wheeler really picked up
a lot of that. And eventually Price, he got thrown
in the mix. So maybe that's what they got to do.
They got to figure out somebody, a youngster with a
(36:28):
great arm, that they could just throw into that mix.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
Maybe at the end of the game. I don't know
what they got in the minor leagues.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
But David Price was an ace for us out of
the bullpen in 2008. Something that we did not have.
Frankie Rodriguez with the Angels in 2002. We had a
nice bullpen. But when Frankie got there, my God, everything changed.
So they're going to have to figure that out. They
need a little bit more dynamic person method in that bullpen,
I think, to take the pressure off some of the
(36:56):
other guys.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Maybe you take Clay Holmes and put him back into
the bullpen.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Stuff certainly plays there. We know that.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Not a bad thought. Not a bad thought, Coach.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Well, the Brewers, by the way, have six different pitchers
who have hit 100 miles an hour this year.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I've got a stat for you on... pitchers.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
We throw a hundred miles an hour, which might surprise you. Uh,
unless you've been watching a lot of baseball this year,
then you will not be surprised. I'll give you that
right after this on the book of Joe. Welcome back
(37:39):
to the book of Joe. If it seems like every
game there's somebody thrown a hundred miles an hour, uh,
It's true.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
It's actually happening. This is the first.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Time in the history of baseball that there are more pitches,
100 miles an hour than there are games played.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
So it literally happens every night. Here's what's interesting, Joe.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
I mentioned the Brewers with six, of course, Mizoroski is
just a hundred mile an hour pitching machine.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
The Brewers already. And like by far I've thrown more.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Pitches, a hundred miles an hour than any team in
recorded history. It's not even close. But what really strikes me, Joe,
is that two years ago, MLB released that special report
on pitcher injuries.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
They spent a couple years.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Looking into this, and they found that one of the
biggest risks for all these pitchers breaking down was increased velocity,
and that's without modulation, meaning guys are redlining all the time.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
They're maxing out with their velocity.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Since then, and this is incredible to me, that since
last season, the number of pitches 100 miles an hour
have increased dramatically. 47% year over year. We're going to
have more than 5,000 pitches this year at 100 miles
an hour plus. There's 91 pitchers so far who have
(38:55):
hit 100 miles an hour. A 47% increase in elite velocity,
100 plus. When I looked at these numbers, I knew
it was up. I didn't know it was up by
that much. They just keep coming and coming and coming.
Antonio Sensatella. of formerly the Rockies, joins the Brewers. He's
(39:16):
throwing 100 now. He's 31 years old.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
He's been a while. It's not just these kids coming up.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
The ability to now teach velocity, at least extra velocity,
is so prevalent in the game that it's not unusual
to see multiple pitchers in the same game hitting 100
miles an hour.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Okay, why the Brewers?
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Why are the brewers are they at the what is
the secret sauce number one number two i'd like to
see a breakdown of the 100 plus mile an hour
guys i'd like to see their numbers just just curiously.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Well you know what's interesting joe you look overall at
the batting average on 100 plus it's 173 this year
And you're thinking, well, they're seeing more 100. Guys must
be hitting 100 a little bit better. It's gone down
the last two years, the batting average on 100 plus.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
It's tough.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
I mean, if the ball is that quick, it's so
hard to square that up. There's no question about that.
But numbers, I mean, like how successful are these pitchers?
Their longevity, how many years do they pitch? Are they
part of a winning team? And you're looking like with
the Cubbies right now, they're just dying to get somebody
to to finish the game and they can't find anybody
apparently to do that. So I, I, again, I don't
(40:24):
even know why I'm, what I'm thinking yet, but I
would just like to see that to see any kind
of a thread involvement regarding success.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
Is it successful?
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Is it just fun and cool to say throw a
hundy or is it actually successful for the player in
the organization? Not only just like right now in August
or September of this year, but also down the road,
could we, is it sustainable for a period of time
where these guys, could actually be counted on for years
and be functionally good relief pitchers. I'd be curious about that.
(40:54):
That'd be kind of an interesting write-up for me, I think.
So anyway, but back to the Brewers. I mean, why
do they, what is their secret sauce? A couple of
years ago was spin with the Astros, where the Astros
started doing that. And that was always a little bit
of a kitchen aid in that one there too, regarding
how to get the spin up. So it's just, again,
I don't have any real good, any things about this
(41:15):
other than questions raising internally based on what you just
said and, um, and just see if there's any pertinency there.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
That's all.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Uh, the brewer's secret sauce is, uh, the H and
H carwash.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Did you ever hear Murph talk about that? The H
and H carwash.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Uh, apparently there was a place in El Paso, Texas,
the H and H carwash, which is actually a breakfast
place with a carwash attached to it, which was like
the place to go to when your team and the
miners came through El Paso. Uh, so he's got, his
pitching coach is Chris hook and the pitching coordinator is
Jim Henderson, hook and Henderson, thereby the H and H carwash.
(41:52):
So the, the brewers have just, they've done this every year.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
My goodness. And it's not just velocity.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
It's, you know, I like call Harrison gets there after
being with the giants and the red Sox pitches better
than ever. They're kind of like Tampa Bay, uh, where they,
they pick up these guys and they wind up being
better for the brewers than they were anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
So, uh, their secret sauce is the H and H carwash.
Good old-fashioned coaching.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, that's it. That's what I was just going to say.
In a way, it's a communication thing. It's a communication factor.
It's the ability to present information to these players. But
while you're doing that, they're not getting uptight about it.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
They're able to breathe. They believe you. This is right.
This is good.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
And it's almost like you would say this and then
maybe stay out of the way and permit this player
to be the player without a whole lot of interference.
would be my bet um players or pitchers or whatever
they are that have not been successful when they go
somewhere no of course they want to give it to
me man what do you got what am i missing
here what do you guys see that nobody else has
spoken to me about yes that's number one and that
(42:57):
probably they probably do a good job of that analytically
and that's you know with maddie there arnold i would
bet that it's they're pretty pretty good shape with that
but then after that it's the bedside manner really matters
a lot um So I'm just curious about all of that.
That'd be interesting to see. I don't know these guys,
but I would bet that their bedside manner and the
way they approach, there's probably a high level of confidence, obviously,
(43:20):
but there's also got to be a nice level of
humor and also accountability. There's like the secret sauce ingredients
in regards to being a good coach.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
But I'm happy to hear that, the H & H thing.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Of course, Murph would come up with it, but bully
for them for figuring that stuff out.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Yeah, and sometimes it's not always mechanical. It can be
pitch sequencing and choices. Like Sensatella, his four-seamer was getting waffled.
He basically doesn't throw anymore. He's become a sinker-cutter guy,
just moving a ball left and right at the bottom
of the zone at 95-plus. And as I said, he
hit 100 with a sinker for the first time in
(43:57):
his career since joining Milwaukee. I mentioned, I promised you
a stat that links Kyle Schwarber with Ted Williams.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I love this one, Joe. It's kind of an opportunistic thing,
but the fact.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
That you can relate it to just two guys in
the history of the game is pretty cool. Kyle Schwarber
hit a home run the other day, a game in
which Jesus Lozardo threw his first complete game. The Phillies
won one to nothing. And it was Schwarber's home run
that allowed Lozardo actually to stay in that game, finish it,
get the win, his first complete game.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
He was awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Through 109 pitches, but Kyle Schwarber joined Ted Williams as
the only hitters to five times hit a home run
in a one to nothing game.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Ted Williams, Kyle Schwarber. I mean, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
It's coincidental, but, um, Kyle Schwarber is our new Ted Williams.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Of course he is.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Um, except for the batting average, but, um, But, I mean,
you know, Schwerb's, gosh, I mean, I watched it very closely.
I just saw him this year in the Cub Convention.
Same dude. He was in great shape when I saw him.
He didn't even look as big or imposing. He just
looked like he was, you know, compact and strong. He
just slows things down so well. He just, wow, he
(45:18):
could strike out five times, and then he goes, go home,
sit down, watch an episode of Seinfeld, come back the
next day. He's going to be exactly the same guy.
and he thinks he's going to hit five home runs today.
He just doesn't lose that confidence. So he's got this way,
a great way about him that translates daily. And his
(45:40):
confidence doesn't really get nicked a whole lot, even through
bad times, which I think is spectacular. So he's got
the flair for the dramatic. He's proven that already. But nothing, obviously,
both sides pitched really well.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
And he got the guy. He got him.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
But that's Like you said, it's kind of an abstract,
interesting stat, but the company's pretty good for him.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And by the way, I'm sure you loved the way
that Don Mattingly trusted Jesus Lizardo.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
There's a one-out walk in the ninth inning. One-nothing game.
You've got a guy who throws a billion in your
bullpen in Duran. And I get it, Drake Baldwin left
on left. He leaves Lizardo in the game, but Lizardo
punches out Baldwin and then gets Ozzie Albies on a
fly ball to end it. So, give Don Mattingly credit
because you were talking about a guy who had never
(46:28):
thrown a complete game in the major leagues and Jesus
Lizardo and the pitch count was manageable, but you're talking
about a one nothing game against your division rival.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
It's kind of a must win.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
If you think about winning a division, you don't want
to fall another game behind the Braves. The tying run
is on first base winning run in the box or
go ahead, run in the box. And he stuck with
his starting pitcher to get the 26th and 27th outs
when Jesus Lizardo was never in that position before. And Joe,
I thought about you immediately and doing things with Jake
(47:01):
Arrieta and.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Many other guys in your career.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Once they run that marathon and they've gotten that 27th
out and they shook the handle, all their teammates on
the field after that.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Last out, that's a changed picture.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
And Don Mattingly, he's got himself a beast right now
by showing confidence in Jesus Lizardo and saying, I'm trusting
my guy and not doing the knee jerk reaction, which is.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
That's why we have a closer. It's his job. This
is the way we always do it.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I hate that response from managers when they think about
bringing in a closer and he blows the game.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
That's the way we always do it. Watch the game.
In this case, he did, and he trusted Lizardo.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Wrote it down as you were talking about. Mine once
stretched as a difficult time going back to its original form.
Now I've got to watch Lizardo's next start and the
start after that and see if the beast has been–
kind of blossomed from this one particular moment. The other part,
Albies is way better. Not way better, but he's a
better right-handed hitter than lefty.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Oh, yeah, he's way better.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Yeah, I mean, so leave him in on Albies, who
could go deep at any time. There's a guy, not
a big guy, but gosh, does he have some pop. So, again,
you're going against the grain right there by letting him
pitch to Albies as the last out of the game.
I totally believe in everything you just described there, seeing
the minor leagues, seeing on the big leagues. It looks
almost like council, again, having the bad bullpen, but leaving
(48:22):
Boyd in there to try to circumvent the last part
of the game also. Part of that may have been
rooted in the fact he didn't really have a lot
of faith in anybody. Nevertheless, I liked it. Just need
to see more of it. And you'll never know if
these guys can do it or not unless you give
them opportunity. And then all of a sudden you do
unleash the beast and now you really got something. So
I got to definitely watch Lizardo's next start.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Well, you always go nine for us, Joe, here on
the Book of Joe, and it's time for you to
close out your own game.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
What do you got for us today?
Speaker 3 (48:51):
I'm with David Grohl, Foo Fighters, right? It's pretty interesting,
and I brought it up once today, analog, analog baseball.
You and I have been talking about this for a bit,
and then all of a sudden today, a big part
of our discussion has been the Brewers, who are definitely
(49:13):
an analog team in spite of their digital front office,
they're analog on the field.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
Maybe that's the.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Best way to be the digital up top and be
analog down below. Uh, a perfect balance. But here's from
David Grohl. A lot of the records you buy, there's
nothing you can hold in your hand. It's all ones
and zeros. This digital cloud floating in the ether. But
with analog albums, you can hold it in your hand.
(49:41):
in analog baseball, you can hold it in your hand,
you can see it, you could watch it, you could
feel it and you know exactly what's going on. And
it's as opposed to the digital pregame and, and the
fact that it's given so much credit for success, which
I totally disagree with.
Speaker 4 (49:58):
I agree with and disagree with it. There's, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
About it that can be, can really lend or become
a big part of your success. But players, man, their skillset,
who's on the field, um, And as Wes Westrom once
told me, because I was sitting with him at an
Arizona State baseball game back in the early 80s, and
Jim Brock was the manager of the Arizona State team,
(50:21):
very famous. And I said to Wes, I said, God,
Arizona State has got all the horses. And then Wes
looked at me and says, yeah, but you have to
have the right jockey. And that always stuck with me.
So I know that's probably an old phrase, but true.
So But yeah, let's see if we could figure this out,
how to separate the digital and analog worlds and give
(50:44):
them both their places where they're both beneficial. They both
need to be utilized to have a successful group. And
let's get out of this 500 or less than 500
world where teams still have an opportunity to get to
the playoffs with mediocre or less.
Speaker 4 (51:01):
Than mediocre play.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
So maybe the answer is let's be digital up top
and analog on the bottom.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
I think that's our phrase of the day, digital up top,
analog on the bottom.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
Why not? I mean, it's fun, too. I mean, don't, fun.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
I mean, when you have fun with what you're doing,
we all know it, whatever you've done in your life,
when you're really having a blast doing it where it's
really not working, it's something you wake up to do,
even though it is your job and you're getting paid
for it and it's the way you survive, but nevertheless,
it's absolutely fun to do it.
Speaker 4 (51:37):
Now you got it.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
It's fun to kick the big guy in the shins.
Speaker 4 (51:42):
That's right. Shin kickers.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Great stuff, Joe. We'll see you next time on The
Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
See you, brother.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there and welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's the Book of Joe podcast with me, Tom Berducci,
and of course, Joe Madden. And Joe, in a minute,
I want to talk about the best team in baseball.
But it's funny how We're getting back to where we
began this season. If you got your Sports Illustrated baseball
preview issue, you saw Shohei Otani and Aaron Judge on
(00:38):
the cover. It took me a long time to make
that happen, Joe, but we got them together. It was
the first time they got a picture together in the
same place. And here we are with three weeks left
in the season, and they're the major storylines. Otani, because
he is done pitching for the year, and Judge, because
he is back in in the Yankees lineup this week
(01:00):
for the first time in more than three months. Joe,
let me start with Otani because in some ways the
news is good for the Dodgers because he's not going
to try to get himself in shape to pitch again.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That seemed to be holding him back both physically and offensively.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
But on the same token, man, I kind of miss
the two-way show and how much fun that was last year.
So show a really has been slumping his last 96
at bats he's got like 19 hits or something really
struggling for a few weeks uh give me your take
on Shohei Joe because I think the Dodgers they listen
(01:38):
they're a deep lineup but they need Shohei to be
an impact hitter and he hasn't been that hitter here for.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
The last couple of weeks but he will um I
really believe that I haven't watched enough to know with
the problem is normally when he gets in trouble he
gets in a pull mode real heavy pull mode he
gets a lot of rollover ground balls I don't know
if that's what's going on maybe a little bit of
chase comes part of that too and if he's been
seeing more left-handers with good stuff in the latter part
(02:04):
of the game that all normally would be the equation
I think however I don't care I mean when it
gets really important he's going to show up obviously there
you look at them and they've It almost is like
they've been mediocre all season, yet they are where they're
at within the standings and what they're going to do
in the playoffs, et cetera. So, yeah, I just have
(02:25):
so much faith in this guy. Too bad about the pitching.
I think in some ways that might be gnawing at
him a bit.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I'm not sure. However, whatever he's doing right now, okay.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
But just heads up because that just means the numbers
are going to come back to him at some point.
He's going to find that little slot. And all of
a sudden the balls, when he starts flying to center field,
left center field, like more to the middle of the field, far,
that's when he gets really good.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Is there any argument to just put him on the IL?
Shohei talked to the media after the game Monday night. And,
you know, he basically said, listen, I can't completely heal
while I'm playing in games.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But at the same time, I want to help this team.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Um offensively he just doesn't look the same because he
has not been healthy it's been a series of injuries
i mean it's been neck it's been elbow it's been
uh the knee biceps you name it um just not
explosive in the box um i'm assuming as they always
do the dodgers check with shohei he knows himself so
(03:26):
well that this is the best course moving forward you
mentioned the dodgers position it is important for them to
make sure they don't play in the first round, get
one of the top two seeds. I'm sure they've thought
about giving Shohei two weeks off completely to just heal.
But in this case, I guess, Joe, you've had him
as a player. You defer to Shohei and knowing his body.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, he's really altruistic with this whole thing. I mean,
he knows when he's in the lineup, the team is better.
He knows that. It's not in a cocky way.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
It's just fact.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And he's there to play baseball and he's there to
play every day. That's just what he signed up to do.
So that's part of the makeup. That's just who he is.
He's got this strong sense of duty and he's got
to be there and he's got to play, et cetera.
So I, again, I hear what you're saying regarding all
the different injuries, the little forest fires, little campfires that
(04:23):
he's got going on within his body. However, dang, I just,
I have to be in the room with them, talk
to them. I mean, I always felt we had a
good conversation. I'm sure they do there now with David
and Andrew and everybody else. Just sit in a room,
and not a crowded room, just him, you, maybe another guy,
not many, and just find out exactly what's going on
(04:44):
and try to come to the best conclusion on how
to move this thing forward. Because after all, their ultimate
goal is to win the World Series again. So if
that does require some time off, that would so be it.
But Again, I have always listened to him. He's always
been straight up in the past, and I don't think
that's going to change right now.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Well, he's got a lot of time, I think, between
now and when the Dodgers play, especially if they get
a first-round bye in the postseason. So I do expect
he'll be much better than he's been the last three
weeks without having to even kind of the mental drain
of trying to prepare himself to pitch again and get back.
And it is, and you've seen it firsthand, I don't
(05:22):
think people can appreciate what it takes for him in
between starts, get himself ready to pitch. The recovery it
takes pitchers at the same time you're going out there
as the DH and getting on base, you know, 40%
of the time. It's been a grind. So simplifying it,
I think you probably will see the best of Shohei.
It may take a bit, you know, but I do
(05:43):
think you're right, Joe, as we get to October, he'll
be the same old Shohei. The same old Aaron Judge.
What can we expect, Joe? This guy now has missed
more than three months of the season. There's no minor
league rehab. He did not want to go out. As
you know, Joe, in today's world, you have these traject
machines that can simulate major league pitching.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
You get in there and hit off of that. He
did hit off the field on Monday.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Actually did a couple of times on the road trip
to the West Coast. So no minor league rehab assignments
for Aaron Judge. It's, you know, no, no balls in
the range. Just get up there on the first tee
and get, let it, let it fly.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
What can we expect of Aaron judge after missing more
than three months?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I still like, listen, they, they're all the players are
dictating this and they don't think they need to do whatever,
but the rehab is not, it's just beyond just reps
at the, in the batter's box. It's about ups and
downs themselves. If he, is he going to play the outfield?
If he is, it's just, you know, standing on your
feet for that many innings. I mean, a lot of the,
When we did rehab with anybody, position players, you would
(06:49):
always break them in slowly, especially when he's been out
as long as he has. You would come back maybe
three innings, then five innings, then seven innings, then nine innings,
and you would have a DH day in between that. Now,
I know they consider that not important anymore, but we'll
find out. I mean, I'm sure he's been staying in
shape as much as he can, whatever, but the injury
did kind of slow his whole body down. So that's
(07:11):
part of it that nobody talks about enough is just
the physical issues strain of being up and down. And
I'm here to tell you, folks, I know baseball players,
you think, stand around a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Maybe they do, or we did.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
However, if you're an everyday major league player, that really
wears your butt down. And if you talk about the catching,
that's a whole different situation. So I think that has
to be considered also, I would expect, regarding the machines, whatever.
It's all about timing, because that's just one speed coming
at you that gets you ready for velocity. But that's
the Warren Spahn thing, hitting is timing, pitching is the
(07:45):
upsetting of timing, and that's harder to replicate, and I
know the machines could vary that. I get all that,
but it's just different.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
It just is.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
My experience has been sometimes, or many times, if I
remember correctly, and sometimes you think you do, but you don't,
that he may come out hot. He may come out hot,
but then you kind of settle in after maybe a
week or 10 days, just based on the other things,
like your body all of a sudden starts getting sore, tired,
quicker than because I just haven't built back up, uh,
(08:14):
like I would in spring training.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
And that's where spring training is so important.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And in my mind's eye, spring training is not too long.
So that's the, uh, that's what I'm seeing right now.
That's what I think.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So that's my concern where my concerns would lie.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Uh, really good points, Joe, because I think the average
fan doesn't understand that, that being out there in spikes
on the field for, you know, two and a half
to three hours, night after night after night, um, It
sounds crazy, but there has to be some sort of
training for that. You just don't do it after not
doing it for three months. That's one of the concerns. Now,
(08:49):
Aaron Boone has talked about they're going to have to
decide whether you play him a game, arrest him, play
him a game, arrest him, and then back him up
two in a row. Or maybe you just play him
for five innings and then six innings and then seven innings.
That's sort of, they're trying to decide what is the
best course forward with Aaron Judge. It's interesting to see
(09:12):
how they'll put some governors on him, at least in
the first week or two in playing time. And then
you mentioned playing the outfield. Aaron Judge wants to play
the outfield. There's no question about it. I think with
a left-handed starter, if and when they face left-handed starter,
I think he will be the DH because you can
sit Luis Garcia Jr.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Hasn't really hit lefties. so Rice plays first base.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But I do think he's, for the majority of the time,
Aaron Judge is going to be in right field for
the Yankees. And I've got some concerns about that, short
and long term, Joe. I think at 6'8, in his mid-30s,
and you look at his injury history, almost all of
his injuries have been related to playing defense.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
They've talked to him about being, quote-unquote, smart on defense.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I mean, when this guy leaves his body at 280 pounds,
uh we've seen it we've seen it a couple of
times uh you know bad things can happen and he
said he's going to be smart and i get it
you don't have john carlos stanton back this year um
but but i do think longer term the yankees are
gonna have to think about getting him more reps uh
as a dh as much as he doesn't want to
(10:17):
do that and he is a really good right fielder
um But I do think, Joe, your general point here
is that a guy's coming off the I.L. after missing
three and a half months of baseball. He's going right
back in with a minor league assignment. Handling the physical
side of it on a night after night basis, it'll
be it'll be a challenge for the Yankees.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
More than you know, I mean, if they if they
want to do the break him in kind of slowly
thing on a major league level, that could be problematic, too.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I'm sure they would start him.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And if you want to go three, five, seven, whatever
they want to do, if in fact they do that,
they're you're still going to possibly miss out at the
end of the game when it's really important too, although
every at-bat is important.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
You know, you can score your, what is it, I.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Think the winning team normally scores more runs in one
inning than the losing team scores all game. I think
it's been a stat out of the past that I remember.
So there's no saying that the latter part of the
game is more important than the first part. You could
win a game on the first swing, the first at-bat
of the game, won nothing, whatever. So I don't really
necessarily buy that. It's just a matter of, You don't
(11:18):
want to bring him off the bench and try to
figure out how to have him play in the latter
part of the game. I think the warm-up period for that,
what he's doing in the clubhouse, would be very uncomfortable
for him. It's not what he's used to doing. It's
just not part of the fabric there. So interesting.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
We'll watch it.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I guess they're figuring we'd rather have at least two
or three at-bats out of Judge here and take him
out of the game as opposed to have none out
of him and have him go play in Wilkes-Barre, Scranton
for a bit, and then come back in a week.
So they're trying to analytically establish what's the better thing
for them to do regarding potential production. Even if it's
(11:56):
more limited now with us, it's better than if he's not.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Here at all.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
By the way, the Yankees, while Judge was out, they
went 45-39. That's pretty darn good. That's a testament to
how good their pitching has been. I mean, the Yankees'
pitching has just been spectacular this year. During that time,
Judge was out six games over. 500 while hitting.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
227.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
They were the second worst offensive team in baseball while
he was out ahead of only the Angels.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So it's a credit.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
This Yankees team overall, Joe, if you look at them
in a postseason environment, is a different Yankee team.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
This is a team, even with Judge there.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I think is going to rely more on their pitching,
especially their starting pitching, to try to get through multiple
rounds of the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And when you, when a guy like that goes down
and everybody's, where do we replace his numbers? Sometimes you
replace it in other ways. You catch the ball. I
don't know to what extent Lombard has helped. I don't
even know what the record is. I know he's been
hurt more recently, but you got to catch the ball
and you got to pitch it really well in order to,
I think, make up for the loss of a guy
(13:07):
like that.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
He's really hard to replace.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Normally when you get, when you do, lose a player
of Judge's caliber, which is like the highest, and let's
even go the rung below that, somebody that's really significantly good,
you're normally going to try to platoon that somehow. And
that's still difficult to get that proper matchup, going to
platoon advantages that's like to be referred to today. So yeah,
(13:31):
all those things are factored in play. Good for them,
bully for them. But when your guy goes down, it's really,
for me, important to pitch it and catch it to
make up for whatever the lack of his offense may.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Show up as.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well, this week the Yankees get the Rockies and the
Mets at home.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Aaron Judge, by the way, has had 596 career games
at Yankee Stadium. So he's going to get to 600
career games at Yankee Stadium.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I took a look at this. He has 199 homers
in 596 games at Yankee Stadium. 172 games, 199 homers.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So he hits a home run basically almost one out
of every three games that he plays at Yankee Stadium,
which is absolutely crazy. Looking at the highest slugging percentage
in any ballpark all time for guys that played at
least 600 games in a ballpark. Number one, no surprise,
Babe Ruth, the house that Ruth built, right? Yankee Stadium, 697.
(14:31):
Number two, Hank Greenberg at Briggs Stadium, Tiger Stadium. Number
three is Jimmy Foxx at the old Scheib Park in Philly.
Number four is Ted Williams at Fenway Park. And number
five is Aaron Judge at Yankee Stadium. Ruth Greenberg, Fox, Williams, Judge.
(14:51):
That's the company this guy keeps. I mean, he is
so dangerous at Yankee Stadium. And this is not going
to surprise you, Joe. Looking at where he hits his
home runs at Yankee Stadium, he has more home runs
to the opposite field than he does to the pole
side or straight away.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
I was going to ask you that, I swear.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I mean, as you were describing all this, especially the
new Yankee Stadium, it was still part of it in
the old Yankee Stadium, but the new stadium, really that
right field porch and.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Bully for him. I mean, that makes you a better hitter.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
It's probably a part of why he's be, you know, overall,
he's a really good hitter, not just a good power hitter.
When you have a righty or lefty, it's just like,
what was it? What was green?
Speaker 4 (15:36):
The guy with the red socks, the outfielder green.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Mike Greenwell, left-handed hitter.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, he wore it out. I thought Mo Vaughn wore
it out.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I don't think Ted did.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
But to get that opposite field attraction, it's big in
regards to making you a better hitter.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
And I think it did it with him. I've always
believed that.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Opposite field gap to me as a young hitting coach.
When I get guys that can do that, I really– God,
that would just turn me on. I can say Garrett Anderson,
Jimmy Edmonds, Timmy Salmon, even a fellow by the name
of Bobby Rosa. Bobby probably brought up Bobby in the past.
He ended up playing a lot in Japan. Really good hitter.
But coming up to the Angel organization, we had some guys.
(16:19):
We had some really nice guys even back in the
80s and 90s. And as a hitting coach, if I
had a young hitter, Damian Easley, that could drive the
opposite field gap, damn, that was just like that really
perked me up because I thought, as it's easier to
teach somebody to pull the ball than it is to
really drive oppo gap. And if you drive oppo gap,
you have better plate coverage, more difficult to mess with
(16:41):
as a pitcher, et cetera, et cetera. So good for him.
Good for him for taking advantage of it. But I
was wondering that as you started bringing up those numbers.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And speaking of Ted Williams, I got a real good
comp for you. Kyle Schwarber and Ted Williams, what they
have in common. But first, I mentioned we need to
talk about the best team in baseball. And it's not
the Los Angeles Dodgers. We'll do that right after this
on The Book of Joe. Welcome back to The Book
(17:21):
of Joe. Joe, you must watch the Milwaukee Brewers play
baseball and have a flashback to some of your raised teams.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I mean, how fun are they to watch?
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Don't you love it?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
You know, and I know Murph real well, and we've
had so many good conversations, he and I, and you
watch them play, and it's the right way to play.
That style of baseball never gets old. That replenishes itself. Annually,
they do rely on great pitching. Got some good bullpen dudes,
but it's just the effort and the mindset with which
(17:53):
they play. I mean, for me, like, if you get
an opportunity to manage today and today's game, if your
first spring training day With your position players, I would
ask them.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
To do one thing and one.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I would really believe in something I've done in the past.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Run hard to first base. Make good turns.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Let's go first to third, second to home, first to home,
on the ball and the gap. These are the kind
of things. Defensively, I need you to give me really
good work on defense every day. Anything, the small ball component, okay,
you three guys, you're going to probably be hitting in
the bottom of the batting order. I need you to
move the baseball. I need you to really understand the
safety squeeze. et cetera, et cetera. These are the kind
(18:32):
of things that they kick you in the shins. And
when you have shin kickers, it's a pain in the
butt on a nightly basis. They're very hard to prepare against.
They adapt and adjust during the course.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Of the game.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
They play with the mindset. I mean, you talk about culture,
and everybody laughs at that. I mean, when you use
the word culture, what does that mean? Well, I'll tell
you what it means. You have a method of operation
that everybody buys into. That's what culture is. And that's
what they got. That's what they got. You can look
at other teams. and non-successful teams annually, and they got
none of that.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
They don't have a, like when you walk into there.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Here comes Tom Perducci walking into the Brewers locker room,
and you just either got traded there, you've just been
brought up, and you say you do something off-color towards
the rest of the group, and somebody's going to walk
up to you and say, listen, Tom, we don't do
that here. And that's really important when you get people
that are able to, not the manager, not even the
coaching staff within the group, they say, we don't.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Do that here.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
That's not how we played here. When you get guys being,
and I'm sure Yelich is one of those guys.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
There in Milwaukee. That is valuable.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
God, is that invaluable. So that's what they got. Besides
a manager that knows what he knows and he's not
afraid to answer tough questions or whatever. He's a doorknob, man.
He's blunt. He's straightforward. And that's all good. And that's
why they're so successful. And yes, that's why I like
(19:55):
watching them.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, you're absolutely right about Yelich, by the way. He
absolutely is one of those guys. And that culture you
talk about, it only works when you have the right
manager who's able to establish it and maintain it and
make sure you remind players what's important. And you're absolutely
right that Murph is that guy. And it's kind of
like you, he's not afraid to sit people and to
(20:18):
let people know when they have not met the standard
of the organization.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And he will call players out. And I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And there's too much, I call it kowtowing if you want,
but there's too much, you know, stroking of players when
they do wrong and not holding that accountable doesn't mean
you have to insult them, but it means you, do
have to make them aware that you're below the standard
that we've established. And Murph is able to do that.
I think that's why he's such a good manager. And also,
(20:47):
he can play a style of baseball, as you referenced there, Joe.
A lot of teams can't because his players have bought in.
So if he asks a guy to bunt, the guy
is not going to say, why are you asking me
to bunt?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
He's going to say, this is what we do to
win a ballgame.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So you know I've been big for the last five,
six years, Joe, on you need power to win a
World Series. And it certainly has played out that way.
The Milwaukee Brewers are last in the major leagues in
home runs. They're trying to do something that hasn't been
done since 2015 Kansas City Royals. And that's win a
World Series with like bottom of the barrel power. I'm
talking about bottom five in Major League Baseball. It just
(21:24):
has not happened in today's game where there are fewer hits.
But you look at the way the Brewers play and
it's not just bunting, of course. they steal bases or
second and stolen bases. They're actually third and runs because
they have a high on base percentage. They take walks,
they move runners, they steal bases. They turn singles into doubles.
I watched their game Monday. I'm not sure if you
(21:45):
caught it, Joe against Craig council, Chicago Cubs.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And by the way, they absolutely own the Cubs.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
They just won the season series, which means their eight
game lead in the division is essentially a nine game
lead because a tiebreaker would go to Milwaukee and The
Cubs just can't get by the Brewers. I mean, they
had a game in hand with Matthew Boyd.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
On the mound.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Council tried to stretch Boyd as long as he could,
lead off walking the eighth inning up one, but he
left them out there.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
And before you know it, you know, the fire is lit,
and here they come.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
The Cubs' bullpen has been an absolute problem for Craig Council,
and the Brewers win the game.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
But how they won the game is interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Jackson Churio gets up there with two runners on base, second, third,
with Ryan Zephyrjohn on the mound throwing a billion. He
takes a 99 mile an hour fastball above the strike
zone with two strikes. And he absolutely tomahawks it. He
had to be looking for this, Joe, the way he
got on it. And he punches an opposite field ground
(22:45):
ball single to right field. It's one of the most
amazing things I've seen. 99 above the strike zone. This year, hitters,
when they see a fastball 99 plus out of the
strike zone, above the strike zone, We're hitting 065. And
this guy not only gets on top of it, he
just pushes a base hit on the ground to right
(23:06):
field to run score. Then he steals second base. And
then a couple more walks and then a sacrifice fly.
It was the way the Brewers play baseball.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
It was just so much fun to watch.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
As you said, I'd like to think that this this formula.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Can win multiple rounds in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
The other thing, Joe, I want to get your thoughts
on this is obviously the Miz is incredible, right?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And you love it whenever he gets the ball.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
They're 14 and five when he takes the ball. The
stuff maybe is down a slight tick in the last
four or five start. Nothing to worry about. But beyond that,
you've got Logan Henderson. You've got Kyle Harrison, who's really
hit a wall here at the end of the season.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
They're thinking about. using him either as a bullpen or.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Just as a short start guy with a bulk guy
behind him, they're not going to line up three, four deep.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So, listen, their bullpen is great. I get it.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
But they're going to have to beat you very unconventionally
when it comes to especially a seven-game series.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I guess we're talking about analog baseball.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Very much so.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
I'm sitting here listening to you go through the litany of– Oh,
they're pluses, and it's just analog stuff, man.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
It's stuff you could feel. You could see it.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's nothing hidden in a report that somehow is directed
towards the players before the game. You're describing real baseball. Yes,
that's who they are. That is their culture. And I
did happen to just see the video of the latter
part of the game. And the thing about when Cheerios
(24:44):
hit the single, were the– Cubs up by one or
two runs.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
At that point.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, the Cubs were up by one run. No outs.
Second and third, they played the infield in. Ultra aggressive move.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, I saw that, and I was kind of, I
don't know, that's a tough one. I mean, I understand
you're trying to win the game, and maybe you're trying
to take a chance there, but with zero outs, that's tough.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
See, the thing is, you don't want.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
To lose the lead right there, and you'd have to
really watch that in person and And again, knowing that
they didn't like their bullpenner's part, there's all kinds of
a myriad of different reasons that went into that decision
right there, not just obviously the infield was playing in.
There was a lot of thought put into that, I'm sure.
So I found that curious but understandable under different circumstances.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, I think, Joe, he must be thinking that, you know,
we don't even want a tie game here.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
With our bullpen against their bullpen, we're going to lose
that match. We're on the road.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So the other team's going to get the last at bat.
I think it was throwing all the chips on the table.
It was a very risky move, but as you said,
I kind of get some of the unconventional reasons why
you might be super aggressive there.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
I might have done the same thing.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
That's what I was trying to, you know, I was
looking at all that, and from the video, I couldn't
tell outs and the exact score, so you clarified that
for me. So, yes, there is some gray area there
as to why you would want to do it as
opposed to, Playing back, because I was really aggressive about
playing the infield in, even in the first inning.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
That run counts. That run matters.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
And if you have a sinker ball pitcher up there,
and if I play my infield in, and all of
a sudden we cut the run down at the plate
or the guy doesn't go, that's one less run for them.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
We have to make up later part of the game.
I can't remember how.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Many times post-game I would think, okay, how did that
run factor into the game where they didn't score it?
And oftentimes it was huge. So it's a one-run league, man.
You've got to win those one-run games in. They talk
about bullpens being the mitigating factor regarding winning.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Or losing one-run games.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
A lot of times it might be an innocuous decision
like that early that you've got to go back to
and realize that that was really a big factor. Mizoroski
and the rest of the group, yeah, I mean, I
didn't realize Henderson was struggling right now.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
But anyway, they can back off a couple of these
guys a little bit.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
What next superstar they have waiting in the wings to
drop in there. But I do believe, I have a
lot of faith that they will. They may have to
downshift a little bit right now, and they'll do it properly.
But the team on the field, man, they are. They
are swarmers. They're like the 2002 Angels, which is one
of my favorite teams ever, regarding just swarm, swarm. I
(27:29):
don't know how many times we batted around the batting order.
We had some pop, but my God, did we put
the ball in play. It's just a really healthy way
to play the game of baseball, and it can be
taught to any group, not just the Brewers or whatever.
It can be taught to any group to play the
game that way. It requires, like you suggested, a steady hand,
(27:51):
staying on top of things. Don't permit things to fester
when they're not going well or somebody wants to go rogue.
Don't permit that. You've got to call them on it
right now. Back of the neck, no, we don't do
that here. So that's what they're doing. They'll figure it out.
They'll downshift, and then they'll shift back up to sixth gear,
and they're going to be fine.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I want to see those Brewers alternate uniforms that say
shin kickers on them.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
That would be awesome.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
That's pretty sweet, yes. I love shin kickers. I love
shin kickers, man.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
You just have to be careful saying it. That's all.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
I was very careful before I said it.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, and how about those guys in the ninth inning
protecting that lead? Of course, PCA Pete Crow Armstrong did
hit number 41. Just crazy that he just turned around
McGill's fastball.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
But Luis Lara in right field makes a catch at
the wall.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I don't know if it was going out, but it
was just an incredible athletic catch, well-timed at the wall.
And then Jackson Chirio ends the game with a diving
catch in left field. The corner outfielders are, what, 22
and 21 years old.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I mean, it's just crazy. But athleticism... galore.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
On that team garrett mitchell in center field is an
absolute beast athletically uh that that's one of the better
outfielders about outfields i've seen boston i know has a
great one too but um they can beat you in
a lot of different ways and and don't sleep on
their defense as.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Well absolutely i i love that stuff i gosh a
good outfield i mean reminiscing recently with somebody you know
even like i was so fortunate with the angels when
you had garrett uh timmy And Jimmy Anderson, and here
comes Darren Erstad, Sashang into the mix. You look at
the Mariners, they had Griffey and Buhner, and all of
a sudden Vince Coleman shows up, and all of a
(29:39):
sudden they overtake you. There were so many good outfields. outfields,
not outfielders, back in, I think in the 90s, 80s
and 90s. I'd like to sit down and start writing
the names out per outfield. Compared to now, I mean, now,
you know, I don't know that they're as dominant outfielders
(30:01):
as they're supposed to be. That was a dominant position
was outfield. That's where you wanted, you know, of course
your center fielder had to play defense, but your corner
guys had to bang. And there was a lot of
that going on. And so the names you mentioned here
with Milwaukee, and of course the Red Sox have really.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Picked it up.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
But a lot of times you'll just see outfielders like,
you know, platoon advantage outfielders out there as opposed to
guys that just do it on a daily basis.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
And that was the thing.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
And every time you write that lineup down, you wanted
bangers out there, man. You wanted guys that could, you know,
change the game around very quickly. I don't know that, again,
we've talked about this before, where they've taken outfielders and
put them on the infield at shortstop, whatever, because they
want more offense out of that position. I don't know
if that has something to do with it or not.
But give me like an outfield group that can run
(30:50):
it down, really run it down, and could bang it
a little bit. Because when you write those names down,
whenever I had to put 7, 8, 9, you know,
the positionality in my batting order as I'm writing down
a lineup. And I saw particularly 7 and 9 towards
the bottom of the batting order.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
I didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I got a question for you about managers and body
language because the camera loves Craig Council, especially when he
plays the Milwaukee Brewers. And you know, Joe, there's nothing
more challenging for a manager than when you have a
bullpen that you don't fully trust, that you're not sure
where the answers are. And the end game for the
Chicago Cubs right now is certainly in flux.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
You don't have certainty.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
You really love that just kind of plug and play,
whether it's 7-8-9 or even if it's just 8-9. It
doesn't matter who's batting, where the lineup is. You know
where you're ending the game. The Cubs don't have that.
And they really haven't had it all year. And the
camera loves Craig Council because he wears his emotions on
his sleeve. It reminds me of when Larry Boa was
(31:55):
managing the Phillies. Uh, the camera would always find him.
You know, Craig is going to go back down to
the tunnel. He thinks he is out of camera view,
but that's not the case in today's game. Uh, you know,
he's talking to anybody who's next to him. He's shaking
his head. He's running his fingers through his hair. You
can almost see that the anxiety and the pain he's
going through his game slip away.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
As a manager. Joe, were you aware of that? Listen, I,
everybody has to be who they are. And I'm not
saying it's a bad thing at all.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Um, But I know a lot of players have told me,
especially relief pitchers, you never want to let the other
team see you sweat. Being a manager, do you feel
responsible for your body language? I did.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I do. But it was easy for me because that's
just how I was. You're so lost in your own thoughts,
and you just know things are going to go awry.
I might say something under my breath to somebody standing
next to me, but the last thing I wanted to
do was to– demonstrate, obviously, physically, either joy is another
(32:59):
part of it. You could smile, but I used to
watch other dugouts. And this is where it really came
obvious to me. When I was a roving instructor, as
a roving instructor in the middle, late 80s into the
early 90s, you get to go to a different team
every five days, six days, something like that. And I
would always watch the other team's managers. Because that's what
(33:20):
I wanted to do. And it was really obvious to me,
the stoic guys, you never knew what they were thinking.
And the other guys that you always knew what they
were thinking. And like you just said, I don't know
if it's good or bad or indifferent.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I don't even know what it is.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
But I kind of respected and admired those that I
never knew what they were thinking. That was a guy
that you just didn't know, obviously. That's just what I'm saying.
You just didn't know where this dude was coming from.
And you didn't know if he really was on. You're
going to give him credit for being on top of things.
as because he's not emotional. So that's just the way
(33:53):
I've always was. And I watch, you know, I watch
celebratories coming in, high-fiving managers, high-fiving hitters coming in. Listen,
I would shake somebody's hand, I'd pat them on the butt, whatever.
But I'm always into the next pitch. What's going on now?
Whatever's happening right now. So to me, I was always aware, hyper-aware,
(34:14):
like I said, this goes back to the 80s, of
I don't want the other team to see me one
way or another, it's got to be absolutely a flat
line or neutral. And I thought that was the best
way to go about it. And that was my best
way to maintain my level of focus and concentration regarding
what was going on and how I can stay there.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
It makes sense to me. And again, council has to
be who he is. I, of course, what I want,
first of all, is authenticity.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It just, it's a good perspective, Joe, about not giving
anything away because you can see that game slipping away
from Craig council. And I, if you're in Milwaukee and
you looked on across the other side, you're thinking we
got them, we got them right where we want them.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
But again, that's a function of the bullpen.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
You worried about Chicago as a playoff team, especially when
it comes to their pitching.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Yeah. I mean, yes, in general.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yes. I mean, they've, they've had their real hot and
hots and colds. I mean, they've, they've been like a faucet.
I mean, once you run and turn it to one side,
it's extremely hot. Then it gets extremely cold. I mean,
Bregman's really picked it up, which is wonderful. I mean, Pete,
I'd love to see Pete continue this into the postseason.
My God, he's at that point every time he swings
(35:24):
the bat, it looks like it's a homer.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
And it's short and it's quick and it's precise.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Suzuki's done okay, whatever, but I believe that Armstrong and
Bregman are really going to have to sustain what they've
been doing. I like Bush in a very quiet way.
We're talking offense. They do catch the ball, no doubt
about it, and that's a big part of them. But
a bullpen, and anybody asks me about the 2016 Cubs,
I say we cannot win that without a Roldis Chapman,
(35:51):
and that is an absolute fact. Without him, without Mariano Rivera,
I mean, the Yankees weren't as dominant because Rivera made
everybody before him better. That would be my biggest concern
if I'm the Cubbies going into this whole thing.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
How do we finish games?
Speaker 3 (36:05):
With the Rays in 2008, we started the season with Percy,
Troy Percival. He was older, and he got hurt, and
eventually we were bullpenned by a committee. We got to
the series... But it wasn't easy. And then it was
Grant Balfour and J.P. Howell. Danny Wheeler really picked up
a lot of that. And eventually Price, he got thrown
in the mix. So maybe that's what they got to do.
They got to figure out somebody, a youngster with a
(36:28):
great arm, that they could just throw into that mix.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
Maybe at the end of the game. I don't know
what they got in the minor leagues.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
But David Price was an ace for us out of
the bullpen in 2008. Something that we did not have.
Frankie Rodriguez with the Angels in 2002. We had a
nice bullpen. But when Frankie got there, my God, everything changed.
So they're going to have to figure that out. They
need a little bit more dynamic person method in that bullpen,
I think, to take the pressure off some of the
(36:56):
other guys.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Maybe you take Clay Holmes and put him back into
the bullpen.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Stuff certainly plays there. We know that.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Not a bad thought. Not a bad thought, Coach.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Well, the Brewers, by the way, have six different pitchers
who have hit 100 miles an hour this year.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I've got a stat for you on... pitchers.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
We throw a hundred miles an hour, which might surprise you. Uh,
unless you've been watching a lot of baseball this year,
then you will not be surprised. I'll give you that
right after this on the book of Joe. Welcome back
(37:39):
to the book of Joe. If it seems like every
game there's somebody thrown a hundred miles an hour, uh,
It's true.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
It's actually happening. This is the first.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Time in the history of baseball that there are more pitches,
100 miles an hour than there are games played.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
So it literally happens every night. Here's what's interesting, Joe.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
I mentioned the Brewers with six, of course, Mizoroski is
just a hundred mile an hour pitching machine.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
The Brewers already. And like by far I've thrown more.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Pitches, a hundred miles an hour than any team in
recorded history. It's not even close. But what really strikes me, Joe,
is that two years ago, MLB released that special report
on pitcher injuries.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
They spent a couple years.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Looking into this, and they found that one of the
biggest risks for all these pitchers breaking down was increased velocity,
and that's without modulation, meaning guys are redlining all the time.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
They're maxing out with their velocity.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Since then, and this is incredible to me, that since
last season, the number of pitches 100 miles an hour
have increased dramatically. 47% year over year. We're going to
have more than 5,000 pitches this year at 100 miles
an hour plus. There's 91 pitchers so far who have
(38:55):
hit 100 miles an hour. A 47% increase in elite velocity,
100 plus. When I looked at these numbers, I knew
it was up. I didn't know it was up by
that much. They just keep coming and coming and coming.
Antonio Sensatella. of formerly the Rockies, joins the Brewers. He's
(39:16):
throwing 100 now. He's 31 years old.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
He's been a while. It's not just these kids coming up.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
The ability to now teach velocity, at least extra velocity,
is so prevalent in the game that it's not unusual
to see multiple pitchers in the same game hitting 100
miles an hour.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Okay, why the Brewers?
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Why are the brewers are they at the what is
the secret sauce number one number two i'd like to
see a breakdown of the 100 plus mile an hour
guys i'd like to see their numbers just just curiously.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Well you know what's interesting joe you look overall at
the batting average on 100 plus it's 173 this year
And you're thinking, well, they're seeing more 100. Guys must
be hitting 100 a little bit better. It's gone down
the last two years, the batting average on 100 plus.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
It's tough.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
I mean, if the ball is that quick, it's so
hard to square that up. There's no question about that.
But numbers, I mean, like how successful are these pitchers?
Their longevity, how many years do they pitch? Are they
part of a winning team? And you're looking like with
the Cubbies right now, they're just dying to get somebody
to to finish the game and they can't find anybody
apparently to do that. So I, I, again, I don't
(40:24):
even know why I'm, what I'm thinking yet, but I
would just like to see that to see any kind
of a thread involvement regarding success.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
Is it successful?
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Is it just fun and cool to say throw a
hundy or is it actually successful for the player in
the organization? Not only just like right now in August
or September of this year, but also down the road,
could we, is it sustainable for a period of time
where these guys, could actually be counted on for years
and be functionally good relief pitchers. I'd be curious about that.
(40:54):
That'd be kind of an interesting write-up for me, I think.
So anyway, but back to the Brewers. I mean, why
do they, what is their secret sauce? A couple of
years ago was spin with the Astros, where the Astros
started doing that. And that was always a little bit
of a kitchen aid in that one there too, regarding
how to get the spin up. So it's just, again,
I don't have any real good, any things about this
(41:15):
other than questions raising internally based on what you just
said and, um, and just see if there's any pertinency there.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
That's all.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Uh, the brewer's secret sauce is, uh, the H and
H carwash.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Did you ever hear Murph talk about that? The H
and H carwash.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Uh, apparently there was a place in El Paso, Texas,
the H and H carwash, which is actually a breakfast
place with a carwash attached to it, which was like
the place to go to when your team and the
miners came through El Paso. Uh, so he's got, his
pitching coach is Chris hook and the pitching coordinator is
Jim Henderson, hook and Henderson, thereby the H and H carwash.
(41:52):
So the, the brewers have just, they've done this every year.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
My goodness. And it's not just velocity.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
It's, you know, I like call Harrison gets there after
being with the giants and the red Sox pitches better
than ever. They're kind of like Tampa Bay, uh, where they,
they pick up these guys and they wind up being
better for the brewers than they were anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
So, uh, their secret sauce is the H and H carwash.
Good old-fashioned coaching.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, that's it. That's what I was just going to say.
In a way, it's a communication thing. It's a communication factor.
It's the ability to present information to these players. But
while you're doing that, they're not getting uptight about it.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
They're able to breathe. They believe you. This is right.
This is good.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
And it's almost like you would say this and then
maybe stay out of the way and permit this player
to be the player without a whole lot of interference.
would be my bet um players or pitchers or whatever
they are that have not been successful when they go
somewhere no of course they want to give it to
me man what do you got what am i missing
here what do you guys see that nobody else has
spoken to me about yes that's number one and that
(42:57):
probably they probably do a good job of that analytically
and that's you know with maddie there arnold i would
bet that it's they're pretty pretty good shape with that
but then after that it's the bedside manner really matters
a lot um So I'm just curious about all of that.
That'd be interesting to see. I don't know these guys,
but I would bet that their bedside manner and the
way they approach, there's probably a high level of confidence, obviously,
(43:20):
but there's also got to be a nice level of
humor and also accountability. There's like the secret sauce ingredients
in regards to being a good coach.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
But I'm happy to hear that, the H & H thing.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Of course, Murph would come up with it, but bully
for them for figuring that stuff out.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Yeah, and sometimes it's not always mechanical. It can be
pitch sequencing and choices. Like Sensatella, his four-seamer was getting waffled.
He basically doesn't throw anymore. He's become a sinker-cutter guy,
just moving a ball left and right at the bottom
of the zone at 95-plus. And as I said, he
hit 100 with a sinker for the first time in
(43:57):
his career since joining Milwaukee. I mentioned, I promised you
a stat that links Kyle Schwarber with Ted Williams.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I love this one, Joe. It's kind of an opportunistic thing,
but the fact.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
That you can relate it to just two guys in
the history of the game is pretty cool. Kyle Schwarber
hit a home run the other day, a game in
which Jesus Lozardo threw his first complete game. The Phillies
won one to nothing. And it was Schwarber's home run
that allowed Lozardo actually to stay in that game, finish it,
get the win, his first complete game.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
He was awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Through 109 pitches, but Kyle Schwarber joined Ted Williams as
the only hitters to five times hit a home run
in a one to nothing game.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Ted Williams, Kyle Schwarber. I mean, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
It's coincidental, but, um, Kyle Schwarber is our new Ted Williams.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Of course he is.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Um, except for the batting average, but, um, But, I mean,
you know, Schwerb's, gosh, I mean, I watched it very closely.
I just saw him this year in the Cub Convention.
Same dude. He was in great shape when I saw him.
He didn't even look as big or imposing. He just
looked like he was, you know, compact and strong. He
just slows things down so well. He just, wow, he
(45:18):
could strike out five times, and then he goes, go home,
sit down, watch an episode of Seinfeld, come back the
next day. He's going to be exactly the same guy.
and he thinks he's going to hit five home runs today.
He just doesn't lose that confidence. So he's got this way,
a great way about him that translates daily. And his
(45:40):
confidence doesn't really get nicked a whole lot, even through
bad times, which I think is spectacular. So he's got
the flair for the dramatic. He's proven that already. But nothing, obviously,
both sides pitched really well.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
And he got the guy. He got him.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
But that's Like you said, it's kind of an abstract,
interesting stat, but the company's pretty good for him.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And by the way, I'm sure you loved the way
that Don Mattingly trusted Jesus Lizardo.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
There's a one-out walk in the ninth inning. One-nothing game.
You've got a guy who throws a billion in your
bullpen in Duran. And I get it, Drake Baldwin left
on left. He leaves Lizardo in the game, but Lizardo
punches out Baldwin and then gets Ozzie Albies on a
fly ball to end it. So, give Don Mattingly credit
because you were talking about a guy who had never
(46:28):
thrown a complete game in the major leagues and Jesus
Lizardo and the pitch count was manageable, but you're talking
about a one nothing game against your division rival.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
It's kind of a must win.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
If you think about winning a division, you don't want
to fall another game behind the Braves. The tying run
is on first base winning run in the box or
go ahead, run in the box. And he stuck with
his starting pitcher to get the 26th and 27th outs
when Jesus Lizardo was never in that position before. And Joe,
I thought about you immediately and doing things with Jake
(47:01):
Arrieta and.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Many other guys in your career.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Once they run that marathon and they've gotten that 27th
out and they shook the handle, all their teammates on
the field after that.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Last out, that's a changed picture.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
And Don Mattingly, he's got himself a beast right now
by showing confidence in Jesus Lizardo and saying, I'm trusting
my guy and not doing the knee jerk reaction, which is.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
That's why we have a closer. It's his job. This
is the way we always do it.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I hate that response from managers when they think about
bringing in a closer and he blows the game.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
That's the way we always do it. Watch the game.
In this case, he did, and he trusted Lizardo.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Wrote it down as you were talking about. Mine once
stretched as a difficult time going back to its original form.
Now I've got to watch Lizardo's next start and the
start after that and see if the beast has been–
kind of blossomed from this one particular moment. The other part,
Albies is way better. Not way better, but he's a
better right-handed hitter than lefty.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Oh, yeah, he's way better.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Yeah, I mean, so leave him in on Albies, who
could go deep at any time. There's a guy, not
a big guy, but gosh, does he have some pop. So, again,
you're going against the grain right there by letting him
pitch to Albies as the last out of the game.
I totally believe in everything you just described there, seeing
the minor leagues, seeing on the big leagues. It looks
almost like council, again, having the bad bullpen, but leaving
(48:22):
Boyd in there to try to circumvent the last part
of the game also. Part of that may have been
rooted in the fact he didn't really have a lot
of faith in anybody. Nevertheless, I liked it. Just need
to see more of it. And you'll never know if
these guys can do it or not unless you give
them opportunity. And then all of a sudden you do
unleash the beast and now you really got something. So
I got to definitely watch Lizardo's next start.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Well, you always go nine for us, Joe, here on
the Book of Joe, and it's time for you to
close out your own game.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
What do you got for us today?
Speaker 3 (48:51):
I'm with David Grohl, Foo Fighters, right? It's pretty interesting,
and I brought it up once today, analog, analog baseball.
You and I have been talking about this for a bit,
and then all of a sudden today, a big part
of our discussion has been the Brewers, who are definitely
(49:13):
an analog team in spite of their digital front office,
they're analog on the field.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
Maybe that's the.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Best way to be the digital up top and be
analog down below. Uh, a perfect balance. But here's from
David Grohl. A lot of the records you buy, there's
nothing you can hold in your hand. It's all ones
and zeros. This digital cloud floating in the ether. But
with analog albums, you can hold it in your hand.
(49:41):
in analog baseball, you can hold it in your hand,
you can see it, you could watch it, you could
feel it and you know exactly what's going on. And
it's as opposed to the digital pregame and, and the
fact that it's given so much credit for success, which
I totally disagree with.
Speaker 4 (49:58):
I agree with and disagree with it. There's, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
About it that can be, can really lend or become
a big part of your success. But players, man, their skillset,
who's on the field, um, And as Wes Westrom once
told me, because I was sitting with him at an
Arizona State baseball game back in the early 80s, and
Jim Brock was the manager of the Arizona State team,
(50:21):
very famous. And I said to Wes, I said, God,
Arizona State has got all the horses. And then Wes
looked at me and says, yeah, but you have to
have the right jockey. And that always stuck with me.
So I know that's probably an old phrase, but true.
So But yeah, let's see if we could figure this out,
how to separate the digital and analog worlds and give
(50:44):
them both their places where they're both beneficial. They both
need to be utilized to have a successful group. And
let's get out of this 500 or less than 500
world where teams still have an opportunity to get to
the playoffs with mediocre or less.
Speaker 4 (51:01):
Than mediocre play.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
So maybe the answer is let's be digital up top
and analog on the bottom.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
I think that's our phrase of the day, digital up top,
analog on the bottom.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
Why not? I mean, it's fun, too. I mean, don't, fun.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
I mean, when you have fun with what you're doing,
we all know it, whatever you've done in your life,
when you're really having a blast doing it where it's
really not working, it's something you wake up to do,
even though it is your job and you're getting paid
for it and it's the way you survive, but nevertheless,
it's absolutely fun to do it.
Speaker 4 (51:37):
Now you got it.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
It's fun to kick the big guy in the shins.
Speaker 4 (51:42):
That's right. Shin kickers.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Great stuff, Joe. We'll see you next time on The
Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
See you, brother.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
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