August 4, 2026 • 48 mins
Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci watched the MLB Trade deadline come and go. The Yankees need to pivot, so what moves will they be making? The Dodgers made the biggest move and Tom explains why the deal for Tarik Skubal wasn't just about money. This year, pitching was a big focus and the Cubs and Padres geared up for postseason hopes. Tom is also excited to see two active teams that haven't been in the playoff mix for a while.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey there, and welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
It's Tom Berducci back with Joe Madden and Joe. We've
got a trade deadline edition of the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
How'd you survive Trade deadline Day?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well, I was, you know, I kept popping up, kept
popping up even the day before. So obviously with school
boys starting the whole thing, yeah, I was kind of
interested because I thought there was there's so many teams
potentially involved right now because of the way the leagues
are set up with the wild cars, et cetera, So
there was more involvement kind of like you know, you
think teams you thought would do something did and like
(00:50):
you know, the Raised normally stand patt even when I
was there, we'd get close. And one of the biggest
acquisitions we made was Chad Bradford after the August one
deadline or September thirty one deadline. He was like a
waiver guy at that time. He's very influential. So I think,
you know, the teams that you thought were going to
do something did and like the Mets really unloaded, even
the Angels for the first time unloaded some really nice players.
(01:12):
So that was my thought watching this whole thing unfold,
that the group that you thought would.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Did, yeah, a lot to get to, and we'll get
to most of, not all of it, including the way
the Dodgers. I think it was an absolute steal for
them to get Derek Scoogle from Milwaukee, which I don't
think had a really good deadline at all. But let
me start with the New York Yankees, Joe, because everybody
thought they, well, they do need a catcher, especially right
hitting catcher. Seven catchers were traded, two of them actually twice.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
The Yankees got none of them.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Instead, they got Luis Garcia Junior, who actually was leading
the National League and slugging, who's got a stroke which
he rebuilt that actually is perfect for Yankee Stadium right now.
And Elliott Robbos right handed hitting outfielder who also as
a right handed hitter, is perfect for Yankee Stadium because
he hits the ball the other way, which is a
little bit of insurance against the injuries to John Carlos, Stanton,
(02:08):
Cody Bellinger, and Aaron Judge.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
But actually the bigger move.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Came later on when they demoted Anthony Volpi and Jason Dominguez,
and they're handing the shortstop job to George Lombard Junior,
twenty one years old. I actually love this move, Joe.
I mean, I know you like Cabriira. I like Caviira.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I don't think he's.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
An everyday major league shortstop through a Pennant winning team.
And that's what the Yankees aspirations are as far as
finding Garcia and Ramos here, I mean, let's face facts here.
The Yankees gave runway to Dominguez and Spencer Jones to
their hype prospects, and they weren't good enough quite honestly.
(02:51):
You know, Deminguez, he's a career two to twenty three
hitter against four seam fastballs, below average hitter, below average defender.
Spencer Jones against pitches ninety five and above. This year,
he's seen one hundred and thirty seven of them. He's
won for twenty seven. The swing's too long, that needs
a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So we hear all the.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Time about Yankees prospects and prospects in general.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
They're so overhyped. I'm sorry they had to pivot. Now.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
The next hot thing for the Yankees is coming up.
I actually like this deal, George Lombard Junior. It seems
to be a finished product. With every what everybody says,
the main thing is he's a true defender at shortstop.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And I will bring you back to nineteen eighty six, Joe.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I'm going back into the time machine, when the New
York Mets had a heck of a team, but they
really didn't have a solid shortstop. And in September, first
week of September, they brought up twenty one year old
Kevin Elster and they said, kid, go pick it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And the guy had what G.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Michael said, the best hands he ever saw on a shortstop.
And that's who George Lombard is right now. Whatever he hits,
the Yankees will be happy with it. But he's going
to solidify a position that they have not been able
to solidify ever thought, ever since they thought Anthony Volpi
was the answer, and he's not. I've been feeling at
this point, Joe, his time of the Yankees is done.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It's time to move on. He needs to change the scenery.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
They gave him a lot of room here and he
never really did establish that job. From time to time
he did, but not certainly for the way the Yankees thought.
So Yankees move On made some major trades, but the
biggest move is calling up a twenty one year old
to play shortstop at a Pennant race in New York.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
What do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I loved it too. I've never seen the kid play.
I just read about him all the time. He's been
playing right down the street up here in scrant I'm
looking north right now. I never even got to see him,
but I like it. It's like Addison Russell. That's what
I'm seeing right there. Addie came up. May made a
huge difference for us. I never I love Hobby Bias,
but I've always liked him better at second base I did.
(04:55):
I still think he's one of the best I've seen. Anyhow,
that's not either here in nor there. I do like
it a lot. I else. I saw il star in
the minor leagues in Jackson, Mississippi, and he is he
was that good. I was not surprised by that move
back in the day because I was actually managing in
the Texas League when it was all coming down. So anyhow,
I think it's a great move. Domingos and Volpei I
agreed for a players from what I'm seeing so far,
(05:17):
dimingus hits left handed, okay, right handed not very good,
not a good swing, and then the defense is lacking.
And I think the defense with Volpe is lacking. I
think they've just been really trying to sell them hard.
It seems like a great both seemed like wonderful young man. Absolutely,
but I just I agree with you. It's just they're
probably going to be moved on from I'll defend Jones
(05:38):
a little bit. I'm liking every time I see him,
I like him a little bit better. I don't know
where they contrived swing comes from, because I've seen videos
of him from a year or two back where his
hands were set differently. I really believe they're going through
the Shahill Tany mimicking phase. They just want them to
look like shows setting up. I think so anyway, that's
(05:58):
I think he has gotten a little bit better, and
I thought that was okay to keep him. Now. Finally, Garcia,
I like these guys. When I saw the god Carseesa,
you got to be kidding me. And I know he's
more recently on center stage, but like this guy, I've
been watching them all year. I mean, I like a
lot of the hitters down there in Washington. They might
(06:21):
know something we don't know. Maybe these return they got
maybe better than I know. But this guy can hit,
and he's got some pop, and he is built for
Yankee Stadium. He's not afraid to pull the ball. On
the other side, Ramos, every time I see this guy,
he's doing something good. I you know, he's stocky, strong,
kind of a looking guy, know how tall he is,
but he's kind of like a Willie Horton kind of
a bill for me. And ball comes off hot. So
(06:44):
there's a platoon situation in there somewhere for them, you know,
Jones and Ramos. Maybe until it gets settled in I'd
have to look at this more deeply. But overall, I
like what the Yankees did. I think they sent down
the right guys. I think they brought up the right
guy and their trade helps them. I mean, these guys
can hit. I think these guys can be very influential offensively.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I agree with you on all those points.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
And I do think the Yankees are to point now
as a postseason team that they really fortified their depth.
And I think you're looking at a team that could
pinch hit in a postseason environment for the third baseman,
for the catcher, possibly the short stop depending on how
Lombard hits the ground offensively, and maybe even center field
(07:27):
with Grisham. So you're gonna need these balances right and left,
and I think they did a good job of fortifying that.
And I'm not sure whether this Joe is none of
us know this, whether this is also insurance for Aaron Judge,
Like when is he coming back and what is he
We still don't know. It's one of the great mysteries
of this season. I mean, he's essentially walking out of treadmill.
(07:49):
There's no baseball activities going on. We're talking about two
months plus now from this stress.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Fracture in the rib.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So listen, I don't think they can win a Pennant
or a World Series without him. It's a matter of
when he gets back and how much you know, experience
and game action.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
He's able to get in before October gets here.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, this is I mean I read today where Cash
was saying, Brian was saying the fact that he fully
expects them to come back. I think I read that right,
and I could understand the optimism, and I think when
they say that they're they're they're going to be fine
with like mid September, almost like the old call ups,
the September call up kind of a situation, even waiting
a little bit longer, because they just I think they
(08:28):
believe in they know that they could withstand an assault
and get to the playoffs. They just eat him for
the playoffs. And who knows, they might have even been thinking
this might be a good thing, because he's had a
history of not doing that greatly in the playoffs, and
they're looking at this break is something that might actually
permit him to catch fire at the right time. So
they know better than we know regarding exactly what's going
(08:50):
on there. The fact that he's only walking, you know,
baseball activities. It's not going to happen August. It's not
he's not playing in August. So I think they're pointing
for the September call up kind of a thing, and
they're more poignantly looking at the playoffs and that it's
okay because I think they looking at the whole league,
the division, I mean the Rays. Of course they did
a couple of things with themselves, but the Yankees and
(09:11):
the race should pretty much hold onto those two spots.
I know the Yankees are sending, I mean the Red
Sox are I'm still listen. I like what the Red
Sox have done, obviously everybody does. I love it, but
I'm still waiting for a shoot to drop a little
bit because this terror is just like unreasonable. So that
may occur at some point also, But I think the Yankees,
when they look at overall and then they get into
their computer stuff and start doing percentages analytically, they're gonna, yeah,
(09:35):
we're still in pretty good shape, so they're gonna be
patient with Judge.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Let's move on to the Dodgers. They made obviously the
biggest deal of the trade deadline. We'd been talking about
it for months and months. Trek Scooble.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
They pick up from the Milwaukee Brewers.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And there's a lot of people out there this happens
every time the Dodgers acquire a big name, and it
happens seemingly every week, are.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Talking about how the Dodgers are bad for baseball.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
They wind up with everybody, of course, they have so
much money, blah blah blah. This is not the move
to make that argument. Trek schoolbl was a trade acquisition.
What it is is not We'll get to this later on.
It's not an affirmation that the Dodgers have more money
to spend than everybody else. It's an affirmation that they
have a monster player development system and they were outsmarting
(10:19):
just about every other team in baseball. Here's what they
gave up for Terrek schouobl the prize of the free
agent market, of the trade market. River Ryan is a
pitcher who's turning twenty eight years old. He's older than
Juan Soto, and he's coming off Tommy John surgery and
he's thrown a grand total of twenty major league innings.
(10:41):
This is not a kid. This is a former guy.
They got a former eleventh round pick they picked up
in a trade for Matt Batty, who's a reserve outfielder
from Belmont College.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Also in the deal Zayir Hope.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
He's a guy they picked up from the Chicago Cubs
in a deal when they needed to dump the salary
of Michael Bush.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And then they traded Brady Smith, who.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Is a guy they drafted at a high school pitcher
in the third round. I mean, think about that, Joe,
You're getting one of the best pictures of this generation
and You're trading two guys you have picked up on
minor deals with from other teams and a third rounder.
Now you're telling me there's no other team out there,
(11:27):
and I'm looking at you Milwaukee Brewers, who could not
better that deal. I mean, come on, and again, this
deal was made two days before the deadline. You know
what's with not using the time you have to bid
up the price? Here, I'm sorry they did okay on school, Well,
you got to do better than okay. I like River Ryan,
(11:50):
I got to do better than the guy who's turning
twenty eight years old and coming off Tommy John surgery
as one of the headliners. So Milwaukee, No, they didn't
de trait did not do well on this. I'm saying
Milwaukee because I think the brow should have done much
better than what the Dodgers put on the table, should
go all in the way they did for Sabbathia back
in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, they must analytically they liked some of these guys
a River Ryan twenty eight. For me, that's kind of
like an optimal age. However, coming off Tommy John, they
must have some wonderful numbers on this fil Somebody loves them.
They must have loved them going to the draft a
couple of years ago and they didn't get him something
like that, But that somebody's in love right there, hope.
(12:34):
It's interesting when I read about him. I don't know,
I never saw him, but it's an interesting makeup when
I read like an incredible bat speed, strong looking kid.
And then the last kid you talked about the picture
I don't know really much about. It's almost like, was
it more about getting rid of school? But they're worrying
about what they were going to get in return, I
(12:55):
because they're not going to sign him, and maybe the
other teams. Who knows what was offered? I mean, we
just don't know, And maybe it just was really equally
not so sexy. They just didn't like it. You'd like
to know the all of the turndowns. I'm requited trades here.
What would really happen there? Who was offered? Why did
you say no? It'd be kind of interesting to know
(13:15):
why did you say yes to this one? If you
could actually get in the room, Because like I said,
there's a lot of ifs involved with this. But at
the end of the day, I would believe somebody there
loved the pitcher Ryan. Somebody did, and I think somebody's
madly and le say what hope with being with the Cubs.
There's Scotty Harris had been there. I know Scotty probably
(13:36):
has a little bit of insight on him, probably talking
to the Cubs directly while this was going on, somebody
that he knows in the background there. So there's some
proprietary information that the Tiggers had they feel in regards
to why they did this, and we'll see it plays out.
But again i'd love to see what else was offered,
so you could really get into the scrutiny.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, I mean word was that they asked the Yankees
for George Lombard junior, and that's not going to happen.
I mean, sure, you're not going to give up your
number one prospect for two months of Trek schoubl with
no guarantees you signed them.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's you start with those asking prices. But yeah, it's
a great point. We don't know what else really was
on the table for the Tigers, but I think it's
just an okay haul. And again I just didn't get
having that deal done with two days before the deadline.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
But it speaks to what you said. I mean, Scotti.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Harris must have really liked these players that were on
the table from the Dodgers and decided, why wait, we
like these guys.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
But here's my here's my.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Trade Joe for the Dodgers. That really does explain what
money can do for you. This is Dodger nomics because
they operate differently than everybody else. Did you see they
picked up Chris Bubach for the Oyles. Yes, left handed pitcher,
You like them, right, of course, yes I do. Yeah,
guy was an All Star last year. But right now
(15:03):
he's on the il. We just started the throwing program,
probably doesn't come back until September.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
He is now the sixth left hander in the Dodger
postseason bullpen. The Royals dumped them for a twenty five
year old relief pitcher the Dodgers had signed in the
offseason to a minor league deal who had been let
go by the Athletics, so it really wasn't getting much
in return. They just didn't want the salary for a
team that's out of it and a free agent to
(15:32):
be The Dodgers not just pick up his salary, but
because they also have to pay the luxury tax penalty.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
They're way over the last threshold.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
They're paying booh bitch three point eight four million dollars
to pitch maybe one month of the regular season and maybe,
and I say maybe be on the postseason roster, in
the hierarchy of their bullpen in the postseason, because you
think Justin Verbleski is going to be in a bullpen, right,
(16:02):
Eric Lower probably going to be a bullpen. You have
Alex Vesia, you have Tanner Scott, you have Jack Dryer.
To me, they're all better options than a boo bitch
coming off the il and pitching at the end of
the year.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
So the Dodgers took.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Basically a four million dollar flyer on a guy who
might not get an important out for this season because
we know they're going to the postseason winning the division.
And then it's what are you going to do in
the postseason? And if you're the sixth left handed a bullpen,
I don't get it. But this is what the Dodgers
can do. And he's a free agent, so it's not
like they added him, you know, for insurance for next year.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, they like to play the long game. Though. It
made me think of Tommy Edmund when they picked him up.
I loved Tommy Edmund with the Cardinals, I did, and
they picked him up. They're very patient, and of course
he's actually paid off very heavily for them. I just
that that's they're willing. They're they're willing and able to
play the long game right here. They just could be patient, Okay,
if it doesn't work out, they I'm certain they feel
(17:00):
confident they're going to be able to sign him in
the offseason. There's they got a life him that much,
or the fact that they didn't give up that much
in return, and how much are they going to be
on the hook for for the rest of the year
salary wise? Is it? Is it a heavy?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I mean that's what I mean, including the luxury tax
because they have to pay one hundred and ten percent tax.
The salary plus tax is three point eight four million dollars.
I mean, they're like the rich guy who walks in
to a boating place and buys a yacht without even
asking what the sticker price is.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You need it, you want it, you get it. It's
that simple.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
They can do that, that's right. So they're playing a
long game here. There's there's something they love about him,
They're looking down the road. They feel very confident. Why
wouldn't he sign with the Dodgers? Actually, why would he
not sign with us?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You mean like Trek Scooble too.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, exactly what they have to sign with us. There's
no why would they go anywhere else. First of all,
we could afford it to give them what they want.
We've done all the numbers, We've talked to the appropriate people,
and of course they're going to stay with us. So
there are long gamers. I mean, that's that's always been
Andrew's gig, you know, is it his time, investment, banking,
et cetera. So I'm listening to all this, I'm hearing
(18:08):
all this. They don't care. I don't think they really
care if he doesn't pitch this year, because they wanted
for next year and maybe the next two or three
years after that, and they feel very confident about it.
That's what I'm hearing.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Hey, there was so much that went on, and to me,
one of the headlines of the trade deadline was the
number of starting pitchers that were dealt.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Last year was reliever palooza.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Everybody was doubling down on lateening leverage, guys. This year
it was all about starting pitchers, and a couple of teams
really stood out, including the Chicago Cubs and San Diego Padres.
We'll talk about them next on the book of Joe.
(18:59):
All Right, Joe Starting pitching in the major leagues. It's
everybody's looking for starting pitching.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
This time of the year.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And it's like a self fulfilling prophecy because they don't
develop pitchers, because they put limits on pitch counts, because
they don't pitch them as often, because guys throw super
hard max velocity all the time. They're running out of
pitchers to start games in July, and so of course
they're looking for starting pitching.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I'm talking about the better teams in baseball really.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Short on starting pitching, and it starts with the Cubs
and the Padres. The Cubs, actually, and I've never seen
this before, leading up to the deadline, they added six
pitchers to their major league staff and fronting the rotation
now are Kevin Gosman and Clay Holmes. This is a
team that didn't have a whole lot of swing and
miss in the rotation, actually the entire staff. What do
(19:51):
you think of how the Cubs, who also earlier added
Aaron Savali, David Peterson, you know in the bullpen, Zephyr
John came over from the Angels, Braxton Garrett from Marlins.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
What do you think of the remake of the Cubs staff.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
I think they believe they don't necessarily have to go
after the swing and miss guys. They just want guys
that maybe could put the ball on the ground and
let their defense players just let their defense play in general,
So I think they have a different attitude going into
this with what they're looking for, guys that are probably healthy,
you know, homes coming off the injury. Right now, Gosman's
been pretty much healthy. So I think I think their
(20:30):
defense ties into this decision making a lot. I was
watching highlightshrom last night. Suzuki made a throw from the
right field wall to nail Tucker at second base. Was
a beautiful thing. And then Ramirez a bullet down a
third base line by Bahes. I think it was God
would I don't. I've never seen him before, Ramirez, but anyway,
they I know that they're statistically they are the defensive
(20:52):
gems of the National League, I believe, so I think
they're they're the way they shopped was a little bit different.
It wasn't the typical method of shopping these days, we're
looking for swing and miss. They're okay with the ball
being put in play because they're going to run it
down somehow. So I think that was part of that.
Homes is going to be fresh, and apparently he's been
looking good in his rehabs. I've been a Gosmin fan
for a bit. I didn't like him in first when
(21:14):
he was with Baltimore because I thought he was like
a four five innie guy a lot of pitches. At
that time, we didn't really have the devastating splitter. We
just had a big fastball for the times. And then
he added this splitter and deception and whatever to go
with this fastball. And I think he's going to develop
some nice crust on him over the last couple of years.
So I like what they did. I like what the
Cubs did a lot, and I think they're playing into
(21:35):
their strength.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And I thought the Padres are one of the big
winners at the deadline. You know, for a while there
we kept hearing about possibly trading Mason Miller. Best closer
on the planet, Adrian Modejone, young lefty throws a bazillion instead,
of course they do it again.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
They're all in now.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
They are playing better, and they played really well up
to the deadline in the last couple of weeks. But
that's a team that had the third fewest innings from
starting pitching. We know their bullpen is lights out. It
is great, and their plan was to win postseason games
relying on bullpen games essentially, you know, very short starts,
but we'll just bullpen you to death with our depth.
(22:14):
But now they picked up Robbie Ray and Casey Mice,
two veterans starting pitchers, both throwing the ball well. Huge pickups,
at least for me looking at the padres, I'm not
sure they still have enough offense, but it's been better lately.
But Joe, this is a team now with Michael King,
Robbie Ray, and Casey Mize and like I said, the deepest,
(22:37):
best bullpen in baseball behind them. I think they just
became a nightmare matchup for anybody in a postseason environment
if they get in.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, when you have capable starters like that in a
short series, it does make a difference. And like you said,
I believe starting pitching drives the engine I've always said
that when it was with the Rays and the Cubs.
I mean, look at the World Series Cubies and all
the starts that we made in twenty sixteen, and how
many starters it took to get all those innings. I
think six seven guys maybe at the most. I think
(23:06):
that's overlooking. And before when you were talking about the
acquisition of pitchers, I had already written down the word develop,
and then you popped it in there to develop our
own develop your own starting pitching because you're always wanting
to find it. Right now, It's it's crazy how this
thing works. It's almost like nobody knows how to develop
it anymore. We're just gonna go out and buy it.
But yeah, I think the padres, the position players have
(23:28):
gotten better. They're getting more production out of certain guys,
which is uh you would think was gonna happen, but man,
they were like dead in the water for a bit.
Who knows, who knows? So yeah, Ray and Maze definitely
give them a different appearance, but that kind of back
end where you could work backwards in the game. Sometimes
if your starter is really the other starters may not
give them the kind of innings they're looking for. So yeah,
(23:49):
they they definitely have to be considered in to mix.
Anybody's in the mix. I mean almost what is like,
how many percentage of the teams in baseball right now
are in the mix based on the way this schedule,
not scheduled standings work and all cards, et cetera. So
I think there was great move on their part, but yeah,
i'd like I'd still like to see a dedication of
developing starting pitching to reoccur within Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's a great thing to bring up because you think
about where are the reinforcements for starting pitchers coming from
the minor leagues this time of year. Well, they're not
coming because most of those kids are on governors as
far as their workloads and innings. So you can't just
promote and starting a young starting pitcher to pitch down
the stretch. They're more likely to be shut down than
be promoted. So you know, again it's a self fulfilling
(24:34):
prophecy the way the system is set up that you're
going to run out of starting pitching. And by the way,
this is an incredible stat and I know you and
I both love starting pitching and think that's the backbone
of championships. Do you realize that last year in the postseason,
relief pitchers through more innings than starting pitchers, and relief
pitchers won more games than starting pitchers. Starting pitchers had
(24:57):
a losing record, relief pitchers had a winning record. Starting
pitchers through only forty eight percent of all innings in
the postseason in last year.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Man times have changed.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
How about the thing I'd started to dislike when you
got to the playoff games just leave in games in general,
especially towards the end of the year, somebody would walk
in your office and say, how many yuts do you
think your starter is going to get tonight? And like
they'd make a guest like fourteen fifteen, sixteen outs, you know,
other was like little less than five or five innings,
maybe five plus. They used to really bother me, it did.
(25:30):
It's like, again you're talking about the self fulfilling prophecy.
You train people to be mediocre. That's what they've been doing,
training mediocrity by not I don't want to use word push,
just permit, permit guys to get better. And again the
thing about the third time to the batting order, and
it can be at times substantiated by statistics. But I
(25:50):
know there are times when you do pull a starting
pitcher the other team says thank you because that guy's
really locked in and on that night, and then furthermore,
it really elongates your bullpen. They last longer, they're they're
fresher in August, here comes September, and of course the playoffs.
So all of this stuff, man, it's just it bothers me.
I really don't believe the methods utilized right now are
(26:12):
proper or right. After all, all these relief pitches that
are so good they hit the fan pretty fast, they
don't stick around for a long period of time. There's
always a new kid on the block every year, it seems,
and they're always trying to develop new relievers because they
feel like they can, because it's a it's a finite
number of innings, find a number of pitches. They feel
better about that. Throw hard if you get hurt. We
got another one of these guys in a tunic can somewhere.
(26:35):
So it's just got to change at some point, and
it's there, it's there to be done. Gosman Holmes. There's
others like that. You know, if you build the right
defense and get these guys to pitch and teach them
how to get through the third time through the batting,
which to me would mean not showing your entire repertoire
in the first two times through. Save something, develop something
(26:57):
that you can be kept in your back pocket, and
it just might be velocity later by not just the
air out empty in the tank early on any game.
There's so much, There's so much to be discussed right here.
I'm so looking forward to the organization that commits to
develop a starting pitching in the minor leagues and takes
the raps off with these ridiculous pitch numbers and pitch
counts that really there's no substance to it other than
(27:20):
somebody created a formula and they think it's accurate, but
it's not.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, I mean, we're talking about Trek Scoob, but one
of the best pitchers in baseball. He is the prototypical
modern ace and you're going to see it with the
Dodgers in the postseason. Trek school Ball has made one
hundred and fifty major league starts only eleven times as
he gone over one hundred pitches. He has twice pitched
winner go home games, double elimination games, last game full
(27:44):
of a full complement of postseason series, and left those
games with eighty six and ninety two pitches. His era
in his career after the sixth inning is four point
six zho. But you know what, he's not going to
pitch the seventh inning.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
For the Dodgers.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
They're going to go out there and say, give me
six innings eighteen ounce in your book, Joe, uh, And
we've got a whole bevy of hard throwers right and
left behind you to batch up for the rest of
the game.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, listen, I again, that's just that's part of pitchability.
Earlier in the game. I James Shields, Like you know,
I love James Shields. Shields. It really was a he
was a horse. He turned into an ace. The way
I described it was, I don't want you to work
so hard for your outs early in the game. I'm
good with the well located fastball early. That elicits a
(28:35):
first or second pitch out. When you have to start
tricking hitters early with the everything that you got, that's
that's part of where the tank gets empty a little
bit sooner and again you're showing everybody everything that you have.
So when I had pictures that this is my uh,
this is my my thoughts, my words. When they had
to work too hard to get hitters out early, I
(28:55):
was always concerned about that because that would catch up,
and you're there, gonna be about a five inning guy tonight.
The numbers are going to get high and heavy, et cetera,
et cetera. I it's a mentality. How do we get
guys out earlier in the game without having to empty
out the tank. Chields one night gave up four points.
I think it was to somebody at the Trump might
(29:17):
have been Detroit, I can't remember exactly who. You gave
a couple of hits on homers. They said, don't stop
throwing your fastball, stay with it. Just make better pitches
with your fastball and get earlier count outs. I saw
Tim Belcher do the same thing years ago, and I
love Tim Belcher's one of my favorite Alzheimers. I gave
it four points early at Anaheim again against the Royals,
(29:38):
I think it was, and then he's there in the
seventh righth inning and they only still only had four runs.
I mean, these are the kind of things that I
think it would be nurtured. It's a mental toughness, it's
a method of operation, it's a believability, and these kind
of things can work. It's about not only just throwing
your fastball, your pitch, whatever, but throwing it in the
spot that you want to and eliciting soft contact, early
(30:01):
count outs. That's how guys pitch more deeply the game,
I believe.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Let's talk about another of your former teams, Joe, the
Tampa bay Rays. You brought them up with SHIELDSZ, and
now it looks like they want Freddy Peralta to be
starting one of their postseason games. I am not a
big believer in trading for a pitcher who needs fixing.
This happened to the Orioles a couple of years ago
with Trevor Rodgers. Now they eventually got him right. But
(30:26):
when you're in a pennant race and the guy's making
nine or ten starts for you down the stretch, you
don't have a lot of time to fix somebody. And
Freddy Parolta needs fixing. He's a drop and drive pitcher
who's completely lost the extension in his delivery, has not
been using his legs. He's much more upright, and I know,
we talk about fastball Freddy, and he's lost the perceived
velocity at his fastball because he doesn't have the same extension.
(30:48):
But his change up numbers are actually even worse than
the fastball because he's not finishing that pitch. Now here's
my caveat. If there's somebody who needs fixing, especially with
a changeup, send him to Kyle Snyder in the race.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
They are unbelievable the Razor.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I'm throwing more change ups than any team in recorded history.
I'm talking about going back to two thousand and eight.
They're over twenty percent change ups. You see what Snyder
has done with Brian Baker, turned him into an all star,
a journeyman pitcher basically on the change up. McClanahan, Martinez
raspuses the way this team just excels at deadening the baseball.
(31:26):
I've got a sense that Freddie Parolta can be fixed
in a short period of time. It's a big ass
but I think based on the raised track record, they
can do that. So I didn't love the trade, but
I do like the fit that if there's something to
be gained at a Freddie perolt in a short period
of time, The Rays can do it.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Cobb, Shields, Hellickson. You talk about change ups, I mean
Cobb had this vulcan pitch. It's the weirdest change up
split whatever it was. When Alex Cobb was on, he
might have been the dirtiest of all down there. And
of course Shields you could throw that change up underneath
any right handed hitter, and Jeremy it was more of
a straight change up with a lot of backspin on it.
(32:07):
There was one time I think he listened at more
infield pop ups than anybody in the in the league.
I thought that was kind of an interesting number. Change
up is wonderful and I don't understand why more groups
don't do that. Fastball change up should be your first
two pitches, I believe. Then after that then you start
working on the other things. Some guys, I still love
the curveball third, if you actually could, if your arm
(32:29):
could work in a manner that you could actually flip
up there a real curveball. I think the slider cutter
is for those that can't throw a curveball. First. So again,
I love fastball, change up, curveball, legitimate, real and the
thing I've learned about curveballs because anytime I saw a
really good curveball, I would always go up to whomever
it was, including Burt Blylove, and show me your grip
(32:50):
the grip was. There was always something slightly unconventional or
often about a good curve pitcher with a good curveball
and his grip, what he did with his thumb. I
was always curious about that. Some would put the ball
that themb on the side of the ball as opposed
underneath the ball. It was really cool stuff. But fastball,
change up curveball. Now, if you cannot move the baseball
(33:11):
via curveball, let's start talking about slider, cutter, those kind
of pitches. Then of course splitter, which is a wonderful pitch.
But I was always concerned about arm injuries with young
pitchers when that was thrown too often too early in
their careers, because young kidters are going to chase that
all the time, and thus you might get a false positive.
And then they they by doing throwing a lot of
(33:32):
splits for forkballs. Young they do not develop their fastball
and fastball location and command. So this is all interconnected.
I'm a big believer in all that. I think it's
an easy, tried and true to almost if you want
to copy and paste and take somewhere else, I would,
But the change up, man, and it's a pitch that's
not going to be devastating on your arm. It's just
(33:54):
based on grip and just throw the ball and you
get all this wonderful movement off of it. Look at
Kyle Hendricks. For years, I watched that first pitch. You
throw eighty five eighty six mine hour fastball, and the
hitter would take it like and then we'd be called
the strike and they'd look in at the end pire
like you're right, and then you throw the change up
off of that. So I could go on and on
(34:14):
about this, but that, to me is the right way.
And yes, I'm curious to see because I know they
have an idea what they'd like to do with Freddie
before they ever get them. So let's just wait and.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
See two more teams I want to hit real quickly, Joe,
because it's great to see them in the not just
the playoff hunt, but getting involved the trade deadline. The
Pittsburgh Pirates and the Chicago White Sox. It's been a
while since we can talk about those teams being contenders
and adding at the deadline rather than selling the Pirates, obviously,
their biggest need has been their bullpen. They've given away
(34:45):
way too many games late. Great offense, one of the
best in baseball actually, but have been really giving away
games with the lack of shutdown at the back end.
They picked up four veteran relief pitchers, starting actually a
week or two ago with Ron Malerinaccio picked up from
the Padres. But they added Camillo Daval who struggled with
(35:07):
the Yankees, Kirby Yates certainly got a lot of experience
closing games, and Luke Weaver, who's having a fantastic year
with the New York Mets. The Chicago White Sox, the
fifth youngest White Sox team in the history, the youngest
team in fifty years in Chicago, added Luis Castillo, which
I thought was a great fit veteran pitcher, and Brenton
(35:28):
Doyle goal glove caliber centerfielder from the Rockies. You probably
could not have gotten a couple of years ago. Give
me your grades and how you thought the Pirates and
the White Sox did addressing their needs.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
You know the thing with the Pirates, I've had Kirby Kirby,
I had Kirby Yates with the Rays before he became Kirby,
and I loved them back then. He's a good kid
man and he's kind of a tough guy. I don't
I haven't watched enough of him this year, but I
just based on guts and you know, all that kind
of sinew and all that kind of good stuff. I
like him for that. Weaver, I think throwing the ball
(36:00):
really well. See Waiver to me, like when that guy's
with the Yankee, he's not you know, last year whatever
or the year before, he was really good, and I
think he had started to get back to that. I
think he started regaining his confidence this year, so even
more than Yates. I like Weaver to close, but I
don't even know how they're gonna do that there. Dotel.
I think it was important that he got out of
New York. I mean, this guy was pretty good and
(36:22):
then he gots there and he's not so good. And Marnascio,
I yeah, I've not seen enough of him to give
you a solid one because he's on that West Coast stuff.
But I like the Yates. We were thin, and I
think I'm curious with Dotel. As soon as I saw
that happen, I mein Okay, he's out of the city.
Maybe he could breathe right now. He's got a big arm.
(36:43):
My god, you look at when the ball goes up
there and all of a sudden it gets turned around.
How how I mean, there's something something weirdly missing with him.
So like I liked that. I think the parts did
themself some good stuff right there, Castillo. I have again,
here's a guy when he was with Cincinnati. My god,
was he good. He goes to Seattle. He's good, but
not like dominant like he had in so I again
(37:05):
he had. There's another guy with a really good change up,
and he had a big fastball, and he liked pitching
deeply into games. And I liked him for all that
those reasons. So you probably know better than I what
he looks like this year. But I've always been a
fan of his. But I was curious in that White
Sox ballpark, et cetera. I just have I just don't
know where he's at. And Doyle not many at beast.
(37:27):
He's been hurt then, right, I mean I saw that, Yeah,
he's been hurt. So the defense there is going to
play for them big. They need that. And so I
overall overarching. I like with the parts with their bullpen.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Joe, We're going to take a quick break when we
get back. I really want to tap into your inner scout.
I have a theory about when you're making a deal
and multiplayer deals, what you should be asking for and
how it's different in today's game. We'll do that right
after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
It was Larry Lukeno, the great late former baseball executive,
who used to tell his general managers, Hey, when you
make a deal, always see if you can have them
throw in a picture like you agree on the framework
of a deal.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Just get somebody from a ball, rookie ball, just get
another arm.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I actually think that's changed, Joe, because there's so many
guys out there who just throw hard like flyers on pictures.
I'm talking about that. I would say nowadays, throw in
a shortstop. Give me a great athlete. I can move
them anywhere on the field, we can develop them. He's
a great athlete. We got some what clay to work with.
And to that extent, I want to tell you about
(38:51):
two shortstops that nobody even saw or paid attention to
who are dealt at the deadline, because not many shortstops
were traded. I mean, there were a lot of rumors
about Seeger and c J. Adams, Abrams and this guy,
and none of this stops got traded. But there were
young shortstops. And when I say young, I'm talking about teenagers.
(39:11):
In the trade for Robbie Ray, the Giants got Jennille Hernandez,
who's seventeen years old. He grew up in Cuba, moved
to dr at thirteen, where he started training. He was
signed by the Padres in January of twenty six for
one point four million dollars. Eight months later, he's traded
(39:37):
to the Giants. But I can top that one. I've
never heard of this before. A sixteen year old was traded.
Sixteen years old Carlos Vielma. He was in the Doyle trade,
going for the White Sox to the Rockies. He was playing,
He just obviously signed this year out of Venezuela. He
was playing in the Dominican Summer League with a five
(39:59):
to eight on base percentage.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Sixteen years old at least traded. I've never heard of
that before. So that's my theory.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Get me a shortstop, even if he's sixteen years old
and should be playing on a JV high school team.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Well, you're right, go up the middle. It's always that
was a Gene Thompson thing. Always got up the middle.
They could always be moved. Apparently they've been on this kid.
Apparently somebody on there loves him, and I would almost
bet they got out bid in the first place for him, possibly,
but I understand that kind of to want to acquire
(40:36):
him based on that on base percentage alone, that would
be kind of crazy. I don't know what he looks
like on the field at all, but there's I'm certain
that there's a lot of bells and whistles involved in
this that they like already. And then for the group
to give him up, they just that's typically just you
said he went from the Padres right to the Giants. Correct.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Oh no, that sixteen year old went from the White
Sox to the Rockies. Okay, venteen year old went from
the Padres to the Giants. I'm sorry, the guy is
much younger, Yeah, much younger.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, I get it. But when you're in, when you're
in an opportunity, you're gonna have to give up something
to get something that you really want that that kind
of makes sense. So and then there's so much room
down the road for failure or even more success. But
this just tells me there's they were all over these kids. Uh,
there's somebody they trust a lot from the scouting side
of things that that took a look at these guys,
(41:31):
and that's how you swing a deal like this. But
the team that's given them up, they're they're knocking on
a door in away, so they they they're gonna they
have to bleed a little bit sometimes. But again, I
love if, in fact they trusted their scouts on this one.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
I kind of dig that you're one hundred percent right.
I believe that.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
I'm sure it was a case where you know, obviously
they scouted this kid and didn't get them in that
international signing period. And it reminds me a very similar
story where one year the Dodgers were looking for relief
help at the day line and they wanted Josh Fields
from the Astros right handed reliever as a setup guy,
and the Astros asked for this guy, Alvarez, and the
(42:14):
Dodgers had just signed a pitcher named Alvarez for more
than three million dollars, and the Dodgers came back and said, no,
we're not trading him. We've got three million dollars invested
in him, and we're not trading.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
An arm like that. And the Astros came back and.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Said, no, no, no, not that Alvarez, the hitter Alvarez,
guy by the name of jor Don Alvarez, and the
Dodgers said, oh, okay, we can do that. And it
was all because of the scout the Astros had, and
I forget his name, but it was the guy that
was looking at Alvarez, worked him out down in South
Florida and wanted to get him signed, but the Astros
(42:53):
lost out to the Dodgers. So the scout was still
pushing to sign Alvarez, who at that point had not
played an affiliated game with the Dodgers. The Dodgers traded
you were Don Alvarez before he put on a uniform
for them, And it was all because the original scout
for the Astros didn't give up on him, even though
the Dodgers originally signed him a few months later. That's
(43:15):
who they asked for. You talk about a great get,
So you're absolutely right in this case. And I think
most cases when you're talking about these especially international free agents,
these teams that somebody saw him very young and love
something about him and continued to push to get a
player like that.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Scouts fall in love. Brother, we fall in love. You
just do, and you get a guy that you absolutely
must have and if you lose, if you don't, you
will follow him. And if he gets released or whatever
the trade comes up, you're definitely going to push for
the organization to get him again. I mean, for me,
(43:51):
I think my first love as a scout, weirdly might
have been a guy by named Sean Hilligis. Oh. Yeah,
it was a picture that I saw in Grand Junction
and I saw him pitch eight to eight hitters, got
one out, knocked out of the game, Middle Georgia. He's
for Pennsylvania. I didn't even realize that at the time,
(44:11):
but put him in for the draft and we drafted him,
and then the January Draft and he goes out and
he pitches in the summer ball and strikes out like
I don't know, there's a what twenty one hitters at
seven inning game. He struck out like sixteen or seventeen
out of twenty one batters. That so Larry Hams calls me,
which just signed. Of course I would sign him, but
(44:33):
he did not want the money. Then he goes first pick. No,
that was in a June draft. Then he goes first pick,
first round of the January draft. The next year, Tim
Sammy Timmy Salmon fell in love with Timothy as in
Chad Curtis. I mean, Chad was another guy I pushed
so hard. We didn't ge him to the forty sixth
round because Bob Fontane Junior says, now he'll be there,
he'll be there, he'll be there. Bobby was right, but
I was glad we got him. I was standing what
(44:55):
happened to Chad afterwards. But really a good talent. So
you fall in love, you do. It's no different than
falling in love with the dogg or a woman whatever.
I mean. You you just you just can't get it
out of your mind, and that's that's what happens. So
I could absolutely see that being part of this scenario here.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Well, the lesson from this trade deadline is how valuable
starting pitching is, and the gold is trying to find
someone who's going to start a postseason game for you
at this time of year and last year, only two
pitchers acquired at the deadline started a postseason game, Shane
Bieber for the.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Jays Zach Lyttel for the Reds.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
I got a feeling there's probably a half dozen starting
pitchers who are acquired at the deadline who will start
a postseason game this year, starting with famously Trek Scooble.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
So that's my lesson, Joe.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I always turned to you at this time as we
end this edition of the Book of Joe, for a.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Bigger lesson, a life lesson, if you will. What do
you got for us today?
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Dante Alieri, a little Italian.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Boy, wasn't he traded in that Blue Jays Astros deal?
Oh that's alec Arraghetti.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Yeah, they were tree there considering him for I think
Michelangelo or da Vinci at that point, but they they
held the I think Florence, the Florence Paisanos held their
held titles. Anyhow, I thought this would make the most sense.
A mighty flame follow with a tiny spark. So every
team out there was looking for the tiny spark right
(46:26):
now regarding uh, you know, acquisitions, how do we get there?
When we get there, what's gonna make a difference. So
we talked about all these really sexy names, and I'm
just going to go back to the one we talked
about almost originally. I like what the Yankees did with Garcia, Ramos.
I know it's not the starting pitcher, and Lombard. I
like what they did there. I think those three players
(46:46):
can have a huge impact on them, especially like we're
talking about without Stanton or Judge or whatever. So I
I I like that. And these these are those are
the tiny sparks. Schoob is like a flame or like
a Gosman Holmes. Uh, those are like large, They're beyond
a brush fire. There's almost the forest fire. Those are
(47:08):
really bright fires. But these guys are like these are
the tiny sparks that I'm curious to watch because I've
been watching. I always watched the Nationals all year. This
kid Garcia comes up, bam, he would just pop a ball.
So that he did yesterday, that was a line drive.
And then Ramos, like you said, the right central right
opposite apple gap power to me is something I always
(47:31):
thought was very interesting in young hitters and especially right
handed guys. So anyhow, that's the spark. I think the
Yankees did pretty good here. And of course Lombard, so
they mighty flame fall with a tiny spark. Let's see
what happens.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I love that idea because it happens again and again.
I'll go back to famously, when the Giants picked up
a utility guy from the Colorado Rockies the deadline.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Nobody paid attention to it.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Marco Scutero played so well he hit about three sixty
four for the Giants. He played so well that he
got a new nickname, Blockbuster.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
So we'll find out who the.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
Blockbusters are out of this deadline this year, which tiny
Flame erupts?
Speaker 3 (48:12):
And Aligiari Dante is, of course the divine comedy. I
couldn't remember, but then I did. He was pretty solid.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Well done, Joe, We'll see you next time. I'm the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
See your brother, take care.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey there, and welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
It's Tom Berducci back with Joe Madden and Joe. We've
got a trade deadline edition of the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
How'd you survive Trade deadline Day?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well, I was, you know, I kept popping up, kept
popping up even the day before. So obviously with school
boys starting the whole thing, yeah, I was kind of
interested because I thought there was there's so many teams
potentially involved right now because of the way the leagues
are set up with the wild cars, et cetera, So
there was more involvement kind of like you know, you
think teams you thought would do something did and like
(00:50):
you know, the Raised normally stand patt even when I
was there, we'd get close. And one of the biggest
acquisitions we made was Chad Bradford after the August one
deadline or September thirty one deadline. He was like a
waiver guy at that time. He's very influential. So I think,
you know, the teams that you thought were going to
do something did and like the Mets really unloaded, even
the Angels for the first time unloaded some really nice players.
(01:12):
So that was my thought watching this whole thing unfold,
that the group that you thought would.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Did, yeah, a lot to get to, and we'll get
to most of, not all of it, including the way
the Dodgers. I think it was an absolute steal for
them to get Derek Scoogle from Milwaukee, which I don't
think had a really good deadline at all. But let
me start with the New York Yankees, Joe, because everybody
thought they, well, they do need a catcher, especially right
hitting catcher. Seven catchers were traded, two of them actually twice.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
The Yankees got none of them.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Instead, they got Luis Garcia Junior, who actually was leading
the National League and slugging, who's got a stroke which
he rebuilt that actually is perfect for Yankee Stadium right now.
And Elliott Robbos right handed hitting outfielder who also as
a right handed hitter, is perfect for Yankee Stadium because
he hits the ball the other way, which is a
little bit of insurance against the injuries to John Carlos, Stanton,
(02:08):
Cody Bellinger, and Aaron Judge.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
But actually the bigger move.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Came later on when they demoted Anthony Volpi and Jason Dominguez,
and they're handing the shortstop job to George Lombard Junior,
twenty one years old. I actually love this move, Joe.
I mean, I know you like Cabriira. I like Caviira.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I don't think he's.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
An everyday major league shortstop through a Pennant winning team.
And that's what the Yankees aspirations are as far as
finding Garcia and Ramos here, I mean, let's face facts here.
The Yankees gave runway to Dominguez and Spencer Jones to
their hype prospects, and they weren't good enough quite honestly.
(02:51):
You know, Deminguez, he's a career two to twenty three
hitter against four seam fastballs, below average hitter, below average defender.
Spencer Jones against pitches ninety five and above. This year,
he's seen one hundred and thirty seven of them. He's
won for twenty seven. The swing's too long, that needs
a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So we hear all the.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Time about Yankees prospects and prospects in general.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
They're so overhyped. I'm sorry they had to pivot. Now.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
The next hot thing for the Yankees is coming up.
I actually like this deal, George Lombard Junior. It seems
to be a finished product. With every what everybody says,
the main thing is he's a true defender at shortstop.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And I will bring you back to nineteen eighty six, Joe.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I'm going back into the time machine, when the New
York Mets had a heck of a team, but they
really didn't have a solid shortstop. And in September, first
week of September, they brought up twenty one year old
Kevin Elster and they said, kid, go pick it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And the guy had what G.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Michael said, the best hands he ever saw on a shortstop.
And that's who George Lombard is right now. Whatever he hits,
the Yankees will be happy with it. But he's going
to solidify a position that they have not been able
to solidify ever thought, ever since they thought Anthony Volpi
was the answer, and he's not. I've been feeling at
this point, Joe, his time of the Yankees is done.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It's time to move on. He needs to change the scenery.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
They gave him a lot of room here and he
never really did establish that job. From time to time
he did, but not certainly for the way the Yankees thought.
So Yankees move On made some major trades, but the
biggest move is calling up a twenty one year old
to play shortstop at a Pennant race in New York.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
What do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I loved it too. I've never seen the kid play.
I just read about him all the time. He's been
playing right down the street up here in scrant I'm
looking north right now. I never even got to see him,
but I like it. It's like Addison Russell. That's what
I'm seeing right there. Addie came up. May made a
huge difference for us. I never I love Hobby Bias,
but I've always liked him better at second base I did.
(04:55):
I still think he's one of the best I've seen. Anyhow,
that's not either here in nor there. I do like
it a lot. I else. I saw il star in
the minor leagues in Jackson, Mississippi, and he is he
was that good. I was not surprised by that move
back in the day because I was actually managing in
the Texas League when it was all coming down. So anyhow,
I think it's a great move. Domingos and Volpei I
agreed for a players from what I'm seeing so far,
(05:17):
dimingus hits left handed, okay, right handed not very good,
not a good swing, and then the defense is lacking.
And I think the defense with Volpe is lacking. I
think they've just been really trying to sell them hard.
It seems like a great both seemed like wonderful young man. Absolutely,
but I just I agree with you. It's just they're
probably going to be moved on from I'll defend Jones
(05:38):
a little bit. I'm liking every time I see him,
I like him a little bit better. I don't know
where they contrived swing comes from, because I've seen videos
of him from a year or two back where his
hands were set differently. I really believe they're going through
the Shahill Tany mimicking phase. They just want them to
look like shows setting up. I think so anyway, that's
(05:58):
I think he has gotten a little bit better, and
I thought that was okay to keep him. Now. Finally, Garcia,
I like these guys. When I saw the god Carseesa,
you got to be kidding me. And I know he's
more recently on center stage, but like this guy, I've
been watching them all year. I mean, I like a
lot of the hitters down there in Washington. They might
(06:21):
know something we don't know. Maybe these return they got
maybe better than I know. But this guy can hit,
and he's got some pop, and he is built for
Yankee Stadium. He's not afraid to pull the ball. On
the other side, Ramos, every time I see this guy,
he's doing something good. I you know, he's stocky, strong,
kind of a looking guy, know how tall he is,
but he's kind of like a Willie Horton kind of
a bill for me. And ball comes off hot. So
(06:44):
there's a platoon situation in there somewhere for them, you know,
Jones and Ramos. Maybe until it gets settled in I'd
have to look at this more deeply. But overall, I
like what the Yankees did. I think they sent down
the right guys. I think they brought up the right
guy and their trade helps them. I mean, these guys
can hit. I think these guys can be very influential offensively.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I agree with you on all those points.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
And I do think the Yankees are to point now
as a postseason team that they really fortified their depth.
And I think you're looking at a team that could
pinch hit in a postseason environment for the third baseman,
for the catcher, possibly the short stop depending on how
Lombard hits the ground offensively, and maybe even center field
(07:27):
with Grisham. So you're gonna need these balances right and left,
and I think they did a good job of fortifying that.
And I'm not sure whether this Joe is none of
us know this, whether this is also insurance for Aaron Judge,
Like when is he coming back and what is he
We still don't know. It's one of the great mysteries
of this season. I mean, he's essentially walking out of treadmill.
(07:49):
There's no baseball activities going on. We're talking about two
months plus now from this stress.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Fracture in the rib.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So listen, I don't think they can win a Pennant
or a World Series without him. It's a matter of
when he gets back and how much you know, experience
and game action.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
He's able to get in before October gets here.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, this is I mean I read today where Cash
was saying, Brian was saying the fact that he fully
expects them to come back. I think I read that right,
and I could understand the optimism, and I think when
they say that they're they're they're going to be fine
with like mid September, almost like the old call ups,
the September call up kind of a situation, even waiting
a little bit longer, because they just I think they
(08:28):
believe in they know that they could withstand an assault
and get to the playoffs. They just eat him for
the playoffs. And who knows, they might have even been thinking
this might be a good thing, because he's had a
history of not doing that greatly in the playoffs, and
they're looking at this break is something that might actually
permit him to catch fire at the right time. So
they know better than we know regarding exactly what's going
(08:50):
on there. The fact that he's only walking, you know,
baseball activities. It's not going to happen August. It's not
he's not playing in August. So I think they're pointing
for the September call up kind of a thing, and
they're more poignantly looking at the playoffs and that it's
okay because I think they looking at the whole league,
the division, I mean the Rays. Of course they did
a couple of things with themselves, but the Yankees and
(09:11):
the race should pretty much hold onto those two spots.
I know the Yankees are sending, I mean the Red
Sox are I'm still listen. I like what the Red
Sox have done, obviously everybody does. I love it, but
I'm still waiting for a shoot to drop a little
bit because this terror is just like unreasonable. So that
may occur at some point also, But I think the Yankees,
when they look at overall and then they get into
their computer stuff and start doing percentages analytically, they're gonna, yeah,
(09:35):
we're still in pretty good shape, so they're gonna be
patient with Judge.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Let's move on to the Dodgers. They made obviously the
biggest deal of the trade deadline. We'd been talking about
it for months and months. Trek Scooble.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
They pick up from the Milwaukee Brewers.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And there's a lot of people out there this happens
every time the Dodgers acquire a big name, and it
happens seemingly every week, are.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Talking about how the Dodgers are bad for baseball.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
They wind up with everybody, of course, they have so
much money, blah blah blah. This is not the move
to make that argument. Trek schoolbl was a trade acquisition.
What it is is not We'll get to this later on.
It's not an affirmation that the Dodgers have more money
to spend than everybody else. It's an affirmation that they
have a monster player development system and they were outsmarting
(10:19):
just about every other team in baseball. Here's what they
gave up for Terrek schouobl the prize of the free
agent market, of the trade market. River Ryan is a
pitcher who's turning twenty eight years old. He's older than
Juan Soto, and he's coming off Tommy John surgery and
he's thrown a grand total of twenty major league innings.
(10:41):
This is not a kid. This is a former guy.
They got a former eleventh round pick they picked up
in a trade for Matt Batty, who's a reserve outfielder
from Belmont College.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Also in the deal Zayir Hope.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
He's a guy they picked up from the Chicago Cubs
in a deal when they needed to dump the salary
of Michael Bush.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And then they traded Brady Smith, who.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Is a guy they drafted at a high school pitcher
in the third round. I mean, think about that, Joe,
You're getting one of the best pictures of this generation
and You're trading two guys you have picked up on
minor deals with from other teams and a third rounder.
Now you're telling me there's no other team out there,
(11:27):
and I'm looking at you Milwaukee Brewers, who could not
better that deal. I mean, come on, and again, this
deal was made two days before the deadline. You know
what's with not using the time you have to bid
up the price? Here, I'm sorry they did okay on school, Well,
you got to do better than okay. I like River Ryan,
(11:50):
I got to do better than the guy who's turning
twenty eight years old and coming off Tommy John surgery
as one of the headliners. So Milwaukee, No, they didn't
de trait did not do well on this. I'm saying
Milwaukee because I think the brow should have done much
better than what the Dodgers put on the table, should
go all in the way they did for Sabbathia back
in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, they must analytically they liked some of these guys
a River Ryan twenty eight. For me, that's kind of
like an optimal age. However, coming off Tommy John, they
must have some wonderful numbers on this fil Somebody loves them.
They must have loved them going to the draft a
couple of years ago and they didn't get him something
like that, But that somebody's in love right there, hope.
(12:34):
It's interesting when I read about him. I don't know,
I never saw him, but it's an interesting makeup when
I read like an incredible bat speed, strong looking kid.
And then the last kid you talked about the picture
I don't know really much about. It's almost like, was
it more about getting rid of school? But they're worrying
about what they were going to get in return, I
(12:55):
because they're not going to sign him, and maybe the
other teams. Who knows what was offered? I mean, we
just don't know, And maybe it just was really equally
not so sexy. They just didn't like it. You'd like
to know the all of the turndowns. I'm requited trades here.
What would really happen there? Who was offered? Why did
you say no? It'd be kind of interesting to know
(13:15):
why did you say yes to this one? If you
could actually get in the room, Because like I said,
there's a lot of ifs involved with this. But at
the end of the day, I would believe somebody there
loved the pitcher Ryan. Somebody did, and I think somebody's
madly and le say what hope with being with the Cubs.
There's Scotty Harris had been there. I know Scotty probably
(13:36):
has a little bit of insight on him, probably talking
to the Cubs directly while this was going on, somebody
that he knows in the background there. So there's some
proprietary information that the Tiggers had they feel in regards
to why they did this, and we'll see it plays out.
But again i'd love to see what else was offered,
so you could really get into the scrutiny.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, I mean word was that they asked the Yankees
for George Lombard junior, and that's not going to happen.
I mean, sure, you're not going to give up your
number one prospect for two months of Trek schoubl with
no guarantees you signed them.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's you start with those asking prices. But yeah, it's
a great point. We don't know what else really was
on the table for the Tigers, but I think it's
just an okay haul. And again I just didn't get
having that deal done with two days before the deadline.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
But it speaks to what you said. I mean, Scotti.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Harris must have really liked these players that were on
the table from the Dodgers and decided, why wait, we
like these guys.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
But here's my here's my.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Trade Joe for the Dodgers. That really does explain what
money can do for you. This is Dodger nomics because
they operate differently than everybody else. Did you see they
picked up Chris Bubach for the Oyles. Yes, left handed pitcher,
You like them, right, of course, yes I do. Yeah,
guy was an All Star last year. But right now
(15:03):
he's on the il. We just started the throwing program,
probably doesn't come back until September.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
He is now the sixth left hander in the Dodger
postseason bullpen. The Royals dumped them for a twenty five
year old relief pitcher the Dodgers had signed in the
offseason to a minor league deal who had been let
go by the Athletics, so it really wasn't getting much
in return. They just didn't want the salary for a
team that's out of it and a free agent to
(15:32):
be The Dodgers not just pick up his salary, but
because they also have to pay the luxury tax penalty.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
They're way over the last threshold.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
They're paying booh bitch three point eight four million dollars
to pitch maybe one month of the regular season and maybe,
and I say maybe be on the postseason roster, in
the hierarchy of their bullpen in the postseason, because you
think Justin Verbleski is going to be in a bullpen, right,
(16:02):
Eric Lower probably going to be a bullpen. You have
Alex Vesia, you have Tanner Scott, you have Jack Dryer.
To me, they're all better options than a boo bitch
coming off the il and pitching at the end of
the year.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
So the Dodgers took.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Basically a four million dollar flyer on a guy who
might not get an important out for this season because
we know they're going to the postseason winning the division.
And then it's what are you going to do in
the postseason? And if you're the sixth left handed a bullpen,
I don't get it. But this is what the Dodgers
can do. And he's a free agent, so it's not
like they added him, you know, for insurance for next year.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, they like to play the long game. Though. It
made me think of Tommy Edmund when they picked him up.
I loved Tommy Edmund with the Cardinals, I did, and
they picked him up. They're very patient, and of course
he's actually paid off very heavily for them. I just
that that's they're willing. They're they're willing and able to
play the long game right here. They just could be patient, Okay,
if it doesn't work out, they I'm certain they feel
(17:00):
confident they're going to be able to sign him in
the offseason. There's they got a life him that much,
or the fact that they didn't give up that much
in return, and how much are they going to be
on the hook for for the rest of the year
salary wise? Is it? Is it a heavy?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I mean that's what I mean, including the luxury tax
because they have to pay one hundred and ten percent tax.
The salary plus tax is three point eight four million dollars.
I mean, they're like the rich guy who walks in
to a boating place and buys a yacht without even
asking what the sticker price is.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You need it, you want it, you get it. It's
that simple.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
They can do that, that's right. So they're playing a
long game here. There's there's something they love about him,
They're looking down the road. They feel very confident. Why
wouldn't he sign with the Dodgers? Actually, why would he
not sign with us?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You mean like Trek Scooble too.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, exactly what they have to sign with us. There's
no why would they go anywhere else. First of all,
we could afford it to give them what they want.
We've done all the numbers, We've talked to the appropriate people,
and of course they're going to stay with us. So
there are long gamers. I mean, that's that's always been
Andrew's gig, you know, is it his time, investment, banking,
et cetera. So I'm listening to all this, I'm hearing
(18:08):
all this. They don't care. I don't think they really
care if he doesn't pitch this year, because they wanted
for next year and maybe the next two or three
years after that, and they feel very confident about it.
That's what I'm hearing.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Hey, there was so much that went on, and to me,
one of the headlines of the trade deadline was the
number of starting pitchers that were dealt.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Last year was reliever palooza.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Everybody was doubling down on lateening leverage, guys. This year
it was all about starting pitchers, and a couple of teams
really stood out, including the Chicago Cubs and San Diego Padres.
We'll talk about them next on the book of Joe.
(18:59):
All Right, Joe Starting pitching in the major leagues. It's
everybody's looking for starting pitching.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
This time of the year.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And it's like a self fulfilling prophecy because they don't
develop pitchers, because they put limits on pitch counts, because
they don't pitch them as often, because guys throw super
hard max velocity all the time. They're running out of
pitchers to start games in July, and so of course
they're looking for starting pitching.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I'm talking about the better teams in baseball really.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Short on starting pitching, and it starts with the Cubs
and the Padres. The Cubs, actually, and I've never seen
this before, leading up to the deadline, they added six
pitchers to their major league staff and fronting the rotation
now are Kevin Gosman and Clay Holmes. This is a
team that didn't have a whole lot of swing and
miss in the rotation, actually the entire staff. What do
(19:51):
you think of how the Cubs, who also earlier added
Aaron Savali, David Peterson, you know in the bullpen, Zephyr
John came over from the Angels, Braxton Garrett from Marlins.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
What do you think of the remake of the Cubs staff.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
I think they believe they don't necessarily have to go
after the swing and miss guys. They just want guys
that maybe could put the ball on the ground and
let their defense players just let their defense play in general,
So I think they have a different attitude going into
this with what they're looking for, guys that are probably healthy,
you know, homes coming off the injury. Right now, Gosman's
been pretty much healthy. So I think I think their
(20:30):
defense ties into this decision making a lot. I was
watching highlightshrom last night. Suzuki made a throw from the
right field wall to nail Tucker at second base. Was
a beautiful thing. And then Ramirez a bullet down a
third base line by Bahes. I think it was God
would I don't. I've never seen him before, Ramirez, but anyway,
they I know that they're statistically they are the defensive
(20:52):
gems of the National League, I believe, so I think
they're they're the way they shopped was a little bit different.
It wasn't the typical method of shopping these days, we're
looking for swing and miss. They're okay with the ball
being put in play because they're going to run it
down somehow. So I think that was part of that.
Homes is going to be fresh, and apparently he's been
looking good in his rehabs. I've been a Gosmin fan
for a bit. I didn't like him in first when
(21:14):
he was with Baltimore because I thought he was like
a four five innie guy a lot of pitches. At
that time, we didn't really have the devastating splitter. We
just had a big fastball for the times. And then
he added this splitter and deception and whatever to go
with this fastball. And I think he's going to develop
some nice crust on him over the last couple of years.
So I like what they did. I like what the
Cubs did a lot, and I think they're playing into
(21:35):
their strength.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And I thought the Padres are one of the big
winners at the deadline. You know, for a while there
we kept hearing about possibly trading Mason Miller. Best closer
on the planet, Adrian Modejone, young lefty throws a bazillion instead,
of course they do it again.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
They're all in now.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
They are playing better, and they played really well up
to the deadline in the last couple of weeks. But
that's a team that had the third fewest innings from
starting pitching. We know their bullpen is lights out. It
is great, and their plan was to win postseason games
relying on bullpen games essentially, you know, very short starts,
but we'll just bullpen you to death with our depth.
(22:14):
But now they picked up Robbie Ray and Casey Mice,
two veterans starting pitchers, both throwing the ball well. Huge pickups,
at least for me looking at the padres, I'm not
sure they still have enough offense, but it's been better lately.
But Joe, this is a team now with Michael King,
Robbie Ray, and Casey Mize and like I said, the deepest,
(22:37):
best bullpen in baseball behind them. I think they just
became a nightmare matchup for anybody in a postseason environment
if they get in.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, when you have capable starters like that in a
short series, it does make a difference. And like you said,
I believe starting pitching drives the engine I've always said
that when it was with the Rays and the Cubs.
I mean, look at the World Series Cubies and all
the starts that we made in twenty sixteen, and how
many starters it took to get all those innings. I
think six seven guys maybe at the most. I think
(23:06):
that's overlooking. And before when you were talking about the
acquisition of pitchers, I had already written down the word develop,
and then you popped it in there to develop our
own develop your own starting pitching because you're always wanting
to find it. Right now, It's it's crazy how this
thing works. It's almost like nobody knows how to develop
it anymore. We're just gonna go out and buy it.
But yeah, I think the padres, the position players have
(23:28):
gotten better. They're getting more production out of certain guys,
which is uh you would think was gonna happen, but man,
they were like dead in the water for a bit.
Who knows, who knows? So yeah, Ray and Maze definitely
give them a different appearance, but that kind of back
end where you could work backwards in the game. Sometimes
if your starter is really the other starters may not
give them the kind of innings they're looking for. So yeah,
(23:49):
they they definitely have to be considered in to mix.
Anybody's in the mix. I mean almost what is like,
how many percentage of the teams in baseball right now
are in the mix based on the way this schedule,
not scheduled standings work and all cards, et cetera. So
I think there was great move on their part, but yeah,
i'd like I'd still like to see a dedication of
developing starting pitching to reoccur within Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's a great thing to bring up because you think
about where are the reinforcements for starting pitchers coming from
the minor leagues this time of year. Well, they're not
coming because most of those kids are on governors as
far as their workloads and innings. So you can't just
promote and starting a young starting pitcher to pitch down
the stretch. They're more likely to be shut down than
be promoted. So you know, again it's a self fulfilling
(24:34):
prophecy the way the system is set up that you're
going to run out of starting pitching. And by the way,
this is an incredible stat and I know you and
I both love starting pitching and think that's the backbone
of championships. Do you realize that last year in the postseason,
relief pitchers through more innings than starting pitchers, and relief
pitchers won more games than starting pitchers. Starting pitchers had
(24:57):
a losing record, relief pitchers had a winning record. Starting
pitchers through only forty eight percent of all innings in
the postseason in last year.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Man times have changed.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
How about the thing I'd started to dislike when you
got to the playoff games just leave in games in general,
especially towards the end of the year, somebody would walk
in your office and say, how many yuts do you
think your starter is going to get tonight? And like
they'd make a guest like fourteen fifteen, sixteen outs, you know,
other was like little less than five or five innings,
maybe five plus. They used to really bother me, it did.
(25:30):
It's like, again you're talking about the self fulfilling prophecy.
You train people to be mediocre. That's what they've been doing,
training mediocrity by not I don't want to use word push,
just permit, permit guys to get better. And again the
thing about the third time to the batting order, and
it can be at times substantiated by statistics. But I
(25:50):
know there are times when you do pull a starting
pitcher the other team says thank you because that guy's
really locked in and on that night, and then furthermore,
it really elongates your bullpen. They last longer, they're they're
fresher in August, here comes September, and of course the playoffs.
So all of this stuff, man, it's just it bothers me.
I really don't believe the methods utilized right now are
(26:12):
proper or right. After all, all these relief pitches that
are so good they hit the fan pretty fast, they
don't stick around for a long period of time. There's
always a new kid on the block every year, it seems,
and they're always trying to develop new relievers because they
feel like they can, because it's a it's a finite
number of innings, find a number of pitches. They feel
better about that. Throw hard if you get hurt. We
got another one of these guys in a tunic can somewhere.
(26:35):
So it's just got to change at some point, and
it's there, it's there to be done. Gosman Holmes. There's
others like that. You know, if you build the right
defense and get these guys to pitch and teach them
how to get through the third time through the batting,
which to me would mean not showing your entire repertoire
in the first two times through. Save something, develop something
(26:57):
that you can be kept in your back pocket, and
it just might be velocity later by not just the
air out empty in the tank early on any game.
There's so much, There's so much to be discussed right here.
I'm so looking forward to the organization that commits to
develop a starting pitching in the minor leagues and takes
the raps off with these ridiculous pitch numbers and pitch
counts that really there's no substance to it other than
(27:20):
somebody created a formula and they think it's accurate, but
it's not.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, I mean, we're talking about Trek Scoob, but one
of the best pitchers in baseball. He is the prototypical
modern ace and you're going to see it with the
Dodgers in the postseason. Trek school Ball has made one
hundred and fifty major league starts only eleven times as
he gone over one hundred pitches. He has twice pitched
winner go home games, double elimination games, last game full
(27:44):
of a full complement of postseason series, and left those
games with eighty six and ninety two pitches. His era
in his career after the sixth inning is four point
six zho. But you know what, he's not going to
pitch the seventh inning.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
For the Dodgers.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
They're going to go out there and say, give me
six innings eighteen ounce in your book, Joe, uh, And
we've got a whole bevy of hard throwers right and
left behind you to batch up for the rest of
the game.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, listen, I again, that's just that's part of pitchability.
Earlier in the game. I James Shields, Like you know,
I love James Shields. Shields. It really was a he
was a horse. He turned into an ace. The way
I described it was, I don't want you to work
so hard for your outs early in the game. I'm
good with the well located fastball early. That elicits a
(28:35):
first or second pitch out. When you have to start
tricking hitters early with the everything that you got, that's
that's part of where the tank gets empty a little
bit sooner and again you're showing everybody everything that you have.
So when I had pictures that this is my uh,
this is my my thoughts, my words. When they had
to work too hard to get hitters out early, I
(28:55):
was always concerned about that because that would catch up,
and you're there, gonna be about a five inning guy tonight.
The numbers are going to get high and heavy, et cetera,
et cetera. I it's a mentality. How do we get
guys out earlier in the game without having to empty
out the tank. Chields one night gave up four points.
I think it was to somebody at the Trump might
(29:17):
have been Detroit, I can't remember exactly who. You gave
a couple of hits on homers. They said, don't stop
throwing your fastball, stay with it. Just make better pitches
with your fastball and get earlier count outs. I saw
Tim Belcher do the same thing years ago, and I
love Tim Belcher's one of my favorite Alzheimers. I gave
it four points early at Anaheim again against the Royals,
(29:38):
I think it was, and then he's there in the
seventh righth inning and they only still only had four runs.
I mean, these are the kind of things that I
think it would be nurtured. It's a mental toughness, it's
a method of operation, it's a believability, and these kind
of things can work. It's about not only just throwing
your fastball, your pitch, whatever, but throwing it in the
spot that you want to and eliciting soft contact, early
(30:01):
count outs. That's how guys pitch more deeply the game,
I believe.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Let's talk about another of your former teams, Joe, the
Tampa bay Rays. You brought them up with SHIELDSZ, and
now it looks like they want Freddy Peralta to be
starting one of their postseason games. I am not a
big believer in trading for a pitcher who needs fixing.
This happened to the Orioles a couple of years ago
with Trevor Rodgers. Now they eventually got him right. But
(30:26):
when you're in a pennant race and the guy's making
nine or ten starts for you down the stretch, you
don't have a lot of time to fix somebody. And
Freddy Parolta needs fixing. He's a drop and drive pitcher
who's completely lost the extension in his delivery, has not
been using his legs. He's much more upright, and I know,
we talk about fastball Freddy, and he's lost the perceived
velocity at his fastball because he doesn't have the same extension.
(30:48):
But his change up numbers are actually even worse than
the fastball because he's not finishing that pitch. Now here's
my caveat. If there's somebody who needs fixing, especially with
a changeup, send him to Kyle Snyder in the race.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
They are unbelievable the Razor.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I'm throwing more change ups than any team in recorded history.
I'm talking about going back to two thousand and eight.
They're over twenty percent change ups. You see what Snyder
has done with Brian Baker, turned him into an all star,
a journeyman pitcher basically on the change up. McClanahan, Martinez
raspuses the way this team just excels at deadening the baseball.
(31:26):
I've got a sense that Freddie Parolta can be fixed
in a short period of time. It's a big ass
but I think based on the raised track record, they
can do that. So I didn't love the trade, but
I do like the fit that if there's something to
be gained at a Freddie perolt in a short period
of time, The Rays can do it.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Cobb, Shields, Hellickson. You talk about change ups, I mean
Cobb had this vulcan pitch. It's the weirdest change up
split whatever it was. When Alex Cobb was on, he
might have been the dirtiest of all down there. And
of course Shields you could throw that change up underneath
any right handed hitter, and Jeremy it was more of
a straight change up with a lot of backspin on it.
(32:07):
There was one time I think he listened at more
infield pop ups than anybody in the in the league.
I thought that was kind of an interesting number. Change
up is wonderful and I don't understand why more groups
don't do that. Fastball change up should be your first
two pitches, I believe. Then after that then you start
working on the other things. Some guys, I still love
the curveball third, if you actually could, if your arm
(32:29):
could work in a manner that you could actually flip
up there a real curveball. I think the slider cutter
is for those that can't throw a curveball. First. So again,
I love fastball, change up, curveball, legitimate, real and the
thing I've learned about curveballs because anytime I saw a
really good curveball, I would always go up to whomever
it was, including Burt Blylove, and show me your grip
(32:50):
the grip was. There was always something slightly unconventional or
often about a good curve pitcher with a good curveball
and his grip, what he did with his thumb. I
was always curious about that. Some would put the ball
that themb on the side of the ball as opposed
underneath the ball. It was really cool stuff. But fastball,
change up curveball. Now, if you cannot move the baseball
(33:11):
via curveball, let's start talking about slider, cutter, those kind
of pitches. Then of course splitter, which is a wonderful pitch.
But I was always concerned about arm injuries with young
pitchers when that was thrown too often too early in
their careers, because young kidters are going to chase that
all the time, and thus you might get a false positive.
And then they they by doing throwing a lot of
(33:32):
splits for forkballs. Young they do not develop their fastball
and fastball location and command. So this is all interconnected.
I'm a big believer in all that. I think it's
an easy, tried and true to almost if you want
to copy and paste and take somewhere else, I would,
But the change up, man, and it's a pitch that's
not going to be devastating on your arm. It's just
(33:54):
based on grip and just throw the ball and you
get all this wonderful movement off of it. Look at
Kyle Hendricks. For years, I watched that first pitch. You
throw eighty five eighty six mine hour fastball, and the
hitter would take it like and then we'd be called
the strike and they'd look in at the end pire
like you're right, and then you throw the change up
off of that. So I could go on and on
(34:14):
about this, but that, to me is the right way.
And yes, I'm curious to see because I know they
have an idea what they'd like to do with Freddie
before they ever get them. So let's just wait and.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
See two more teams I want to hit real quickly, Joe,
because it's great to see them in the not just
the playoff hunt, but getting involved the trade deadline. The
Pittsburgh Pirates and the Chicago White Sox. It's been a
while since we can talk about those teams being contenders
and adding at the deadline rather than selling the Pirates, obviously,
their biggest need has been their bullpen. They've given away
(34:45):
way too many games late. Great offense, one of the
best in baseball actually, but have been really giving away
games with the lack of shutdown at the back end.
They picked up four veteran relief pitchers, starting actually a
week or two ago with Ron Malerinaccio picked up from
the Padres. But they added Camillo Daval who struggled with
(35:07):
the Yankees, Kirby Yates certainly got a lot of experience
closing games, and Luke Weaver, who's having a fantastic year
with the New York Mets. The Chicago White Sox, the
fifth youngest White Sox team in the history, the youngest
team in fifty years in Chicago, added Luis Castillo, which
I thought was a great fit veteran pitcher, and Brenton
(35:28):
Doyle goal glove caliber centerfielder from the Rockies. You probably
could not have gotten a couple of years ago. Give
me your grades and how you thought the Pirates and
the White Sox did addressing their needs.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
You know the thing with the Pirates, I've had Kirby Kirby,
I had Kirby Yates with the Rays before he became Kirby,
and I loved them back then. He's a good kid
man and he's kind of a tough guy. I don't
I haven't watched enough of him this year, but I
just based on guts and you know, all that kind
of sinew and all that kind of good stuff. I
like him for that. Weaver, I think throwing the ball
(36:00):
really well. See Waiver to me, like when that guy's
with the Yankee, he's not you know, last year whatever
or the year before, he was really good, and I
think he had started to get back to that. I
think he started regaining his confidence this year, so even
more than Yates. I like Weaver to close, but I
don't even know how they're gonna do that there. Dotel.
I think it was important that he got out of
New York. I mean, this guy was pretty good and
(36:22):
then he gots there and he's not so good. And Marnascio,
I yeah, I've not seen enough of him to give
you a solid one because he's on that West Coast stuff.
But I like the Yates. We were thin, and I
think I'm curious with Dotel. As soon as I saw
that happen, I mein Okay, he's out of the city.
Maybe he could breathe right now. He's got a big arm.
(36:43):
My god, you look at when the ball goes up
there and all of a sudden it gets turned around.
How how I mean, there's something something weirdly missing with him.
So like I liked that. I think the parts did
themself some good stuff right there, Castillo. I have again,
here's a guy when he was with Cincinnati. My god,
was he good. He goes to Seattle. He's good, but
not like dominant like he had in so I again
(37:05):
he had. There's another guy with a really good change up,
and he had a big fastball, and he liked pitching
deeply into games. And I liked him for all that
those reasons. So you probably know better than I what
he looks like this year. But I've always been a
fan of his. But I was curious in that White
Sox ballpark, et cetera. I just have I just don't
know where he's at. And Doyle not many at beast.
(37:27):
He's been hurt then, right, I mean I saw that, Yeah,
he's been hurt. So the defense there is going to
play for them big. They need that. And so I
overall overarching. I like with the parts with their bullpen.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Joe, We're going to take a quick break when we
get back. I really want to tap into your inner scout.
I have a theory about when you're making a deal
and multiplayer deals, what you should be asking for and
how it's different in today's game. We'll do that right
after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
It was Larry Lukeno, the great late former baseball executive,
who used to tell his general managers, Hey, when you
make a deal, always see if you can have them
throw in a picture like you agree on the framework
of a deal.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Just get somebody from a ball, rookie ball, just get
another arm.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I actually think that's changed, Joe, because there's so many
guys out there who just throw hard like flyers on pictures.
I'm talking about that. I would say nowadays, throw in
a shortstop. Give me a great athlete. I can move
them anywhere on the field, we can develop them. He's
a great athlete. We got some what clay to work with.
And to that extent, I want to tell you about
(38:51):
two shortstops that nobody even saw or paid attention to
who are dealt at the deadline, because not many shortstops
were traded. I mean, there were a lot of rumors
about Seeger and c J. Adams, Abrams and this guy,
and none of this stops got traded. But there were
young shortstops. And when I say young, I'm talking about teenagers.
(39:11):
In the trade for Robbie Ray, the Giants got Jennille Hernandez,
who's seventeen years old. He grew up in Cuba, moved
to dr at thirteen, where he started training. He was
signed by the Padres in January of twenty six for
one point four million dollars. Eight months later, he's traded
(39:37):
to the Giants. But I can top that one. I've
never heard of this before. A sixteen year old was traded.
Sixteen years old Carlos Vielma. He was in the Doyle trade,
going for the White Sox to the Rockies. He was playing,
He just obviously signed this year out of Venezuela. He
was playing in the Dominican Summer League with a five
(39:59):
to eight on base percentage.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Sixteen years old at least traded. I've never heard of
that before. So that's my theory.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Get me a shortstop, even if he's sixteen years old
and should be playing on a JV high school team.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Well, you're right, go up the middle. It's always that
was a Gene Thompson thing. Always got up the middle.
They could always be moved. Apparently they've been on this kid.
Apparently somebody on there loves him, and I would almost
bet they got out bid in the first place for him, possibly,
but I understand that kind of to want to acquire
(40:36):
him based on that on base percentage alone, that would
be kind of crazy. I don't know what he looks
like on the field at all, but there's I'm certain
that there's a lot of bells and whistles involved in
this that they like already. And then for the group
to give him up, they just that's typically just you
said he went from the Padres right to the Giants. Correct.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Oh no, that sixteen year old went from the White
Sox to the Rockies. Okay, venteen year old went from
the Padres to the Giants. I'm sorry, the guy is
much younger, Yeah, much younger.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, I get it. But when you're in, when you're
in an opportunity, you're gonna have to give up something
to get something that you really want that that kind
of makes sense. So and then there's so much room
down the road for failure or even more success. But
this just tells me there's they were all over these kids. Uh,
there's somebody they trust a lot from the scouting side
of things that that took a look at these guys,
(41:31):
and that's how you swing a deal like this. But
the team that's given them up, they're they're knocking on
a door in away, so they they they're gonna they
have to bleed a little bit sometimes. But again, I
love if, in fact they trusted their scouts on this one.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
I kind of dig that you're one hundred percent right.
I believe that.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
I'm sure it was a case where you know, obviously
they scouted this kid and didn't get them in that
international signing period. And it reminds me a very similar
story where one year the Dodgers were looking for relief
help at the day line and they wanted Josh Fields
from the Astros right handed reliever as a setup guy,
and the Astros asked for this guy, Alvarez, and the
(42:14):
Dodgers had just signed a pitcher named Alvarez for more
than three million dollars, and the Dodgers came back and said, no,
we're not trading him. We've got three million dollars invested
in him, and we're not trading.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
An arm like that. And the Astros came back and.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Said, no, no, no, not that Alvarez, the hitter Alvarez,
guy by the name of jor Don Alvarez, and the
Dodgers said, oh, okay, we can do that. And it
was all because of the scout the Astros had, and
I forget his name, but it was the guy that
was looking at Alvarez, worked him out down in South
Florida and wanted to get him signed, but the Astros
(42:53):
lost out to the Dodgers. So the scout was still
pushing to sign Alvarez, who at that point had not
played an affiliated game with the Dodgers. The Dodgers traded
you were Don Alvarez before he put on a uniform
for them, And it was all because the original scout
for the Astros didn't give up on him, even though
the Dodgers originally signed him a few months later. That's
(43:15):
who they asked for. You talk about a great get,
So you're absolutely right in this case. And I think
most cases when you're talking about these especially international free agents,
these teams that somebody saw him very young and love
something about him and continued to push to get a
player like that.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Scouts fall in love. Brother, we fall in love. You
just do, and you get a guy that you absolutely
must have and if you lose, if you don't, you
will follow him. And if he gets released or whatever
the trade comes up, you're definitely going to push for
the organization to get him again. I mean, for me,
(43:51):
I think my first love as a scout, weirdly might
have been a guy by named Sean Hilligis. Oh. Yeah,
it was a picture that I saw in Grand Junction
and I saw him pitch eight to eight hitters, got
one out, knocked out of the game, Middle Georgia. He's
for Pennsylvania. I didn't even realize that at the time,
(44:11):
but put him in for the draft and we drafted him,
and then the January Draft and he goes out and
he pitches in the summer ball and strikes out like
I don't know, there's a what twenty one hitters at
seven inning game. He struck out like sixteen or seventeen
out of twenty one batters. That so Larry Hams calls me,
which just signed. Of course I would sign him, but
(44:33):
he did not want the money. Then he goes first pick. No,
that was in a June draft. Then he goes first pick,
first round of the January draft. The next year, Tim
Sammy Timmy Salmon fell in love with Timothy as in
Chad Curtis. I mean, Chad was another guy I pushed
so hard. We didn't ge him to the forty sixth
round because Bob Fontane Junior says, now he'll be there,
he'll be there, he'll be there. Bobby was right, but
I was glad we got him. I was standing what
(44:55):
happened to Chad afterwards. But really a good talent. So
you fall in love, you do. It's no different than
falling in love with the dogg or a woman whatever.
I mean. You you just you just can't get it
out of your mind, and that's that's what happens. So
I could absolutely see that being part of this scenario here.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Well, the lesson from this trade deadline is how valuable
starting pitching is, and the gold is trying to find
someone who's going to start a postseason game for you
at this time of year and last year, only two
pitchers acquired at the deadline started a postseason game, Shane
Bieber for the.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Jays Zach Lyttel for the Reds.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
I got a feeling there's probably a half dozen starting
pitchers who are acquired at the deadline who will start
a postseason game this year, starting with famously Trek Scooble.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
So that's my lesson, Joe.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I always turned to you at this time as we
end this edition of the Book of Joe, for a.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Bigger lesson, a life lesson, if you will. What do
you got for us today?
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Dante Alieri, a little Italian.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Boy, wasn't he traded in that Blue Jays Astros deal?
Oh that's alec Arraghetti.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Yeah, they were tree there considering him for I think
Michelangelo or da Vinci at that point, but they they
held the I think Florence, the Florence Paisanos held their
held titles. Anyhow, I thought this would make the most sense.
A mighty flame follow with a tiny spark. So every
team out there was looking for the tiny spark right
(46:26):
now regarding uh, you know, acquisitions, how do we get there?
When we get there, what's gonna make a difference. So
we talked about all these really sexy names, and I'm
just going to go back to the one we talked
about almost originally. I like what the Yankees did with Garcia, Ramos.
I know it's not the starting pitcher, and Lombard. I
like what they did there. I think those three players
(46:46):
can have a huge impact on them, especially like we're
talking about without Stanton or Judge or whatever. So I
I I like that. And these these are those are
the tiny sparks. Schoob is like a flame or like
a Gosman Holmes. Uh, those are like large, They're beyond
a brush fire. There's almost the forest fire. Those are
(47:08):
really bright fires. But these guys are like these are
the tiny sparks that I'm curious to watch because I've
been watching. I always watched the Nationals all year. This
kid Garcia comes up, bam, he would just pop a ball.
So that he did yesterday, that was a line drive.
And then Ramos, like you said, the right central right
opposite apple gap power to me is something I always
(47:31):
thought was very interesting in young hitters and especially right
handed guys. So anyhow, that's the spark. I think the
Yankees did pretty good here. And of course Lombard, so
they mighty flame fall with a tiny spark. Let's see
what happens.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I love that idea because it happens again and again.
I'll go back to famously, when the Giants picked up
a utility guy from the Colorado Rockies the deadline.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Nobody paid attention to it.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Marco Scutero played so well he hit about three sixty
four for the Giants. He played so well that he
got a new nickname, Blockbuster.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
So we'll find out who the.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
Blockbusters are out of this deadline this year, which tiny
Flame erupts?
Speaker 3 (48:12):
And Aligiari Dante is, of course the divine comedy. I
couldn't remember, but then I did. He was pretty solid.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Well done, Joe, We'll see you next time. I'm the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
See your brother, take care.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
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