August 11, 2026 • 48 mins
Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci look at the current standings and the surprising number of wins that it could take to push into the postseason. What does Joe think is 'wrong' with the Dodgers at the moment? Tom looks back at the career of Tim Anderson, who announced his retirement after 10 seasons. For the first time in 3 years, Shohei Ohtani is not the MVP favorite. Who is the new favorite and can he win the award?
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Daron, welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast
with me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Men Joe
wrened what they call the dog days of August. We
(00:27):
were just talking. You might call them the biblical days too.
When it comes to these sheets of rain and heat
and humidity. I mean, I guess is what's living in
the tropics is like how you handle it?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, I'm sweating a little bit. It is.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
It's tropic thunder up here in northeastern Pennsylvania. We were
just a couple of golf and we were talking about
the golf tournaments and how HoTT it spin out of
this and it's really the first world problems, right, really tough,
but it's been it's been different. It's I think I'm
kind of reminiscent of going to the Dominican Republic or
any place way south, or even Florida. Florida gets some
(01:01):
magnificent rainstorm, but then it's combined with humidity and it's
a multiple shower.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Kind of day.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I want to know if you're sweating when it comes
to the Los Angeles Dodgers, because I don't know.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Watching them play the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I know they're the Dodgers and they'll be fine and
when all is said and done.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
But are they a little more vulnerable?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I say that because they're in the danger of not
getting one of the first two seeds in the National League.
Now you could say, listen, it happened last year, right
they had to play Cincinnati in the first round. Didn't
hurt them at all because they wound up winning the
World Series. It's a little bit different this year. I
mean Cincinnati kind of backdoor into the postseason. Last year
weren't a great team. You might find yourself playing at
(01:46):
Philadelphia Phillies in a wildcard round if you don't get
one of those first two buys. And right now they
actually trail the Braves for that second seed in the NL.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Give me thumbnail sketch.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And where the Dodgers are at right now? You watch
them a lot, you know, Schooble just you know, picked
up the headline. He's made two starts for them. Looked, okay,
give me the temperature of where the Dodgers are.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I mean this in the most non combative way. They're
kind of like baseball board right now. They'll they'll snap
out of it, I believe from their recent successes and
even the beginning of this year kicking butt, et cetera,
et cetera, getting school, but which is like, what else
could they have done better than that?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I just think they're like in.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
That baseball board moment you talked about August right now,
and it is tough. Sometimes I don't even know what
their schedules look like, bouncing back and forth between east
and West. I'm not sure, but those things kind of happen.
So that's all I'm seeing right now. I think they'll
they'll write the ship, They'll they'll turn this that dimmer
switch back up to full bore, and then they'll start
(02:51):
playing like they can as the season gets into September.
And actually, like, I don't even know if they've been
in hot weather. I just I don't know that much
about I do watch them, but I don't even watch
where they're at. So yeah, I just think it's a
baseball board concept right now. This is the time of
the years. I wrote something down as you began the
conversation about the American Allegian Week, which I used to
(03:12):
do annually, whether it was with the Rays or the Cubs.
I nay even did it. I think once with the Angels.
That's where you just show up and you play. You
just like I picked a week in the middle to
the end of August. I just had on a homestand
guys would just show up five o'clock, put your uniform on.
I very rarely utilize the phrase I don't care. That's
(03:36):
not a good phrase, but just do what you need
to do to get ready, because I really don't care
what that is. I just I want a fresh body
of fresh mind, and that's to me the best way
to snap out of these things. Everybody they start panicking,
Oh my god, what's wrong. I mean, it's we need
to work harder, we need to give them more information
or whatever, all this this this crazy stuff. They just
(03:59):
need to clear their minds a little bit. They make
sure that their bodies are rested, they feel good. So
this is why I thought American Legion Week was so
great at this time of the month during the year.
Is just show up and play the game at baseball
like we did when we were kids, where we did
not require so much extra batting practice, looking at videos, whatever,
(04:19):
whatever seems to be the jour right now. I think
it's this is the time of the year. Go about,
you go throwback, you know, kick the bench, shake hands,
play the game. And if they did something like that
right now, I think that would really revitalize them.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I always liked that idea, Joe, and I think today's game.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
There's a lot of players would have a hard time
with that.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean that the stuff that goes on, the amount
of hitting they do, off, all the different machines that
they do.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And they do it every day.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
It's crazy how much goes on that people don't see
because obviously it's done now.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
And these these new facilities that the teams.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Have, especially in their home ballparks, that can accommodate so
many different players in so many different ways in the
pregame work.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
But I love the idea.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's a good way to just kind of relax the
mind and the body as well. Where is the Dodgers Listen,
Kyle Tucker, Mookie Betts, Tayo Hernandez.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
They're all having down years. I'm not sure that's going
to turn around.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Mooki is one of those guys to me though, that
he's a playmaker in a big moment, you know, he's
going to get the hit, he's going to make the
playoff defense.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
You just don't worry about him.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
But I think on the day to day basis, the
game has definitely declined a bit, especially when it comes
to Mooki hitting fastballs, and Tucker, to me, just he's
got a very unorthodox swing and it's just has not
been right this whole year for whatever reason.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
So vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I mean, that's probably going a little too far, Joe,
But I do think that there's things that this team
needs to do before they get to the postseason.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I do think getting that first buy is a big thing.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know a lot of people say just get in,
but I've talked to Dave Roberts about this and he said, no,
our goal is to get that buy in the first round.
That really does set up your pitching. Doesn't mean you
can't go through it the way the Dodgers did last year,
And I do think they're going to wind up them
in Milwaukee with the top two seeds in the National League.
And as far as school bol goes pretty much on
(06:09):
point of what we expected here.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
He's a very emotional guy.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
First home start was Monday night, kind of sprayed the
fastball a little bit. Two starts under one hundred pitches
in each one, not a lot of length. I expected
that that's the way they're going to ride him. Here
going to October, and you've got Otani resuming a throwing program.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Now he's going to come back as an opener.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
And I think they just backdated from the postseason to now,
almost like a spring training throwing progression program. And I
do think there'll be a six inning guy by the
time we get to October. So listen, if you're going
into October with hell, I don't even know how you
would order these guys, Joe Schoolable, Otani, snell Yamamoto, who's
going to take him out right?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And again, vulnerable compared to who? I guess you know.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
The Padres right it themselves a little bit. Actually, the
Diamondbacks have righted themselves a little bit. But who are
they vulnerable compared to whatever these other teams are. It
would be a situation where one of the other suitors
just get blazing hot at the right time would be
the only way to beat them. And then if you
go into the other divisions you talked about the Phillies,
(07:12):
et cetera, I don't know. I just when it comes
down to pure talent and like you just you just
mentioned it, pitching talent. I know there's other teams that
have made themselves somewhat better on the mound to face
the Dodger in the lineup, but vulnerable compared to who's
who's the group that really is able to ascend past them.
And I think again it's the fact that some of
(07:33):
these other teams have not done winning World Series, et cetera,
that there's still that carrot still out there that might
possibly motivate them a click more than the Dodgers who
are just trying to do like about three in a
row now.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
But that's it. I I you know, a really good
guy you just mentioned to me.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
You mentioned, you know, Betts and Freddie and Tucker and whomever.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Else they have.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
These guys are just they have that other level ability.
They really do have a switch that I think that
can be turned on again. I would just really want
to make sure that they're rested mentally and physically as
much as they possibly can be before we get to
September when you may have to take the whip out
a little bit. But these guys are so good at
(08:15):
what they do, and the really to me, the mind
is what controls success. In the mind this time of
the year is with control success in combined with the
fact that you're just not out of gas. There are
no gas stations to pull up to along the way.
When when somebody really gets to the point that they're
saturated to the that they just have nothing left, that's difficult.
(08:37):
So you've got to be aware of that. So I
just think if they do this right right now, meaning
back off just a little bit, permit them some latitude
mentally and physically, I think they'll be fined by September.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Well, you have to respect the Milwaukee Brewers as a
team most likely in the National League to take them out,
just because they have the best record in baseball, they
have the best run differential in baseball, and you know
they don't have to put the pedal to the floor
to finish out this season. You're seeing them basically turning
Jacob Misearowski into a Sunday pitcher, you know, pitching once
a week to make sure that he is fresh, because
(09:10):
they have to win his starts in my book, to
run through the postseason environment. And there's a good chance
that he can do that, so you respect what they do,
although they're trying to do it without much power.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And we talk about this a lot. It's been six.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Years now where the teams in the top three or
four and home run hitting have won the World Series.
It's hard for them to go through all these rounds
without changing the game with a swing or two.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
But Milwaukee have to respect the way that they play baseball.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
After that, I think Joe, you and I have also
had a lot of respect for the Phillies as a
postseason team. Now they're going to have to grind just
to get into the postseason. There's no guarantee that they're in.
It's not like they can start backing off of people.
And here's the thing. When I look at the Phillies show,
when they start one of their big three in the rotation,
you know, Sanchez, Wheeler, Luzardo, they're forty.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Eight and nineteen.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
When it's anybody else, there's sixteen and thirty seven, sixteen
thirty seven from the four and five spots in the rotation.
They you know, they brought back Andrew Painter from the
minor leagues. You know he used to throw like an
iron mic, completely over the top it looks to me
like they've dropped his arm angle about ten degrees and
the fastball maybe is a little less hittable than it
(10:21):
was before. Still slugging over six hundred against his fastball.
And if you break him down, Joe, and I know
you look at these things. His release point for his
fastball and his breaking stuff, it varies by like four
or five inches. It's a big difference. You'd much rather
have that ball coming out of the same slot. So
stuff wise is good. I just think hitrors kind of
see his stuff straight over the top guy with different
(10:43):
release points more than they should.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
So listen, do you get fifth started to win the
World Series? No, but you're gonna need everybody. But I
still to get into the postseason.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
But I still think the Phillies are a team that
in a short series, especially a five game series, and
they pushed the Dodgers last year that they're a team
capable of taking out La Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I would.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Watching Painter a little bit more recently, I didn't really
realize the difference between the slots. But that's so recognizable
at home plate. I mean, for those that are listening
that you've really not done that it is. And then
that's that's because the kid's got a good arm, but
he's been getting beaten up pretty badly. He looked walking
off the mound the other and that was that last
night or the night before. But did he look more
(11:27):
confident walking off the money? You know, he had better results?
So I don't know, you know what's going on there.
I know he came in with a lot of value
who and it just hasn't been realized.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
But I just liked the look better.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And then this is my thing watching somebody's body language stuff.
He looked a little bit more confident walking from the
mound to the to the dugout because obviously he had
better results. But that stuff is really identifiable. And then
going back to the Rais and the Brewers that is,
but the Brewers are Tampa Bay North and the Razor
(11:59):
Milwaukee South. This is like in the mirror kind of stuff.
And I would love that's the series I'd like to see.
And I know you talked about the power and et cetera.
I watched a little bit of the Rays in the
athletics last night and how they came back and at
a big inning late Damn, they're just they're just playing it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Right right now. They have a lot of energy on
the field. Simpson.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I like him a lot, regardless of where he's hot
or cold. And he provides that one of those energy
guys you know. And then of Kevin Harrows. I mean
this kid, his swinging batspeed, and even as a third
basement he's just sending I there's a lot to like
there too.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But they are.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
This is like when you look in the mirror, they're
seeing each other. So it's from from a purely entertainment
perspective and actually all possibly even just from an ability perspective.
These they may be the two most interesting teams to
watch play a World Series this year.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
It'll be an interesting stretch run.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
It's crazy that twenty two of the thirty teams are
within five games of a playoff spot.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yeah, I mean, listen, you've got the Tigers. They're in it.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
After trading two starting pitchers schoobl in miz they actually
have this is crazy, the best run differential in the
American League. The Texas Rangers hold the third wildcard spot.
They've been outscored by thirty runs and they're a game
over five hundred. The Minnesota Twins are game and a
half out of a wildcard spot. They're two games under
(13:28):
five hundred, been outscored by thirty one runs. I have
no idea, Joe, what's going to happen in the American League.
I really don't. I mean, you may have a team
get in with eighty two or eighty three wins and
that keeps everybody in play.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I don't even know who's good, who's in it, who's not.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
My rule of thumb tends to be at least get
over five hundred and then I'll take you seriously as
a playoff team. Until then, you know, you got to
prove to me that you're an actual contender.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
This is like Pete Roselle's MLB right back in.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
All he wanted was a competitive five hundred kind of
a thing everybody able to possible at the end of
the year, be part of the dance. That's what's happening
right now. And it's been unintentionally intentional. The way it's
turned out just based on the fact, like we've talked about,
so many organizations just want to mirror each other, the
(14:19):
fact that nobody really wants to step out.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You could say that the race stepped out. They're different.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
The Brewers are different than the normal beat of MLB,
the Dodgers because of their combination of being able to
sign big names while still developing really good players. So
it's just it's like, it's not a surprise, And I
was looking at the standings today, actually gosh like teams
(14:44):
that are under five hundred still within reach of a
wild card situation. But there's when you look at the
teams you have to climb to get there. It becomes
more unlikely because somebody has to really take off. They
have to go Red Sox on you, and somebody's got
a totally tank in order for this kind of stuff
to happen. Whereas when teams are at the part of
the year, the records are who they are, like mister
(15:06):
Parcel says, so you just hard to expect a team
that's mediocre or less than to all of a sudden
become better than. It just doesn't normally work out that way.
So whatever you're seeing right now is going to pretty
hold true. I think right about now, from now to
the end of the year, again, the Red Sox have
already been the team that has done the abnormal breakaway.
(15:27):
It's hard to see that somebody else although the Poudreis
have become a little bit more interesting right now.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I'm looking at the Diamondbacks.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I watched them a little bit on video today and
they got a little energy going on there. They got
some stuff, and Aaron Ood's having a decent year. I
think his ops is right around seven fifty. He's sending
some homers. When this guy came up, he was outstanding.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So there's it's.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Almost like the Latter Day Long Gloria when they brought
long Ago in out there. Kind of the same kind
of a guy. So I'm seeing some energy out of
them also. So there's a couple interesting groups. But the
people that are below five hundred buying for a wild
card spot, and there's other layers of those sub five
(16:10):
hundred teams that's just going to be like a lucky
break or two at the.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
End of the year.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I don't see any of them really getting hot to
the point that they looked like what the Red Sox did.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I'm with you on Arizona, by the way. They look
really good.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And now Kevin Ginkel, whose stuff had been down, is
really bounced back last two outings. It looks like he's
going to become Tory Lebello's closer. It's been that good
and he's certainly when he's right, has that kind of stuff,
especially with the slider. I would definitely buy stocking the
Diamondbacks the way that they're playing and in the American League. Listen,
two years ago, the Tigers had the run to get
(16:42):
into the postseason after trading Jack Flaherty. People didn't see
that coming. Last year it was Cleveland. The Guardians had
an amazing run to get back in it and catch
Clee Detroit.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I just don't see anybody breaking out from that pack.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So again, I'm expecting, if you can get to eighty three,
you got a good shot at making the postseason as
a third wildcard in the American League. Joe, I'm not
sure if you caught it, but there was a hirement
announcement on Monday, a former batting champion calling it quits.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
We'll talk about that decision and what.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
It means for baseball these days right after this on
the Book of Joe. Welcome Back to the Book of Joe.
Tim Anderson called the quits Joe. I mean he had
(17:34):
not been playing this year. Released last year by the Angels.
He is a former batting champion, the guy with more
than a thousand major league hits.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Very interesting career.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And what's interesting was if you heard Tim Anderson and
he was on a conference call promoting the Field of
Dreams game this week. Because when you think of Tim Anderson,
at least me, I first think about his home run,
walk off home run in the first Field of Dreams games.
It's the most cinematic, most visually beautiful baseball game I've
ever seen. I really mean that, a home run into
the cornfield with the fireworks going overhead. Just crazy, finished
(18:10):
to a crazy game. But Tim Anderson talked about the
stress of playing and he said, I'm even nervous talking
right now about the game of baseball, like it caused
him some anxiety. And this we're talking about a two
time All Star and a batting champion with a thousand hits,
very accomplished in the game. I thought it was very
revealing and honest from Tim Anderson. I say this about
(18:34):
Tim Anderson, Joe, he was a guy who put the
ball in play on the ground. If he started his
career in today's game, I'm sure somebody would have brought
him into a lab and said, you've got to get
the ball in the air, so he did win a
bag title. Was, as I said, an all star, a
really good shortstop for a long time, basically never walked.
I mean this guy walked one hundred and fifty three
(18:56):
times in ten years. Talk about fifteen walks a year.
Less than one time a week. Tim Anderson would take
a walk.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
But he had a way of shooting the ball to
the other side of the field.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And yes, a major ground ball hitter without a ton
of power, but the White Sox did wooden with him
a couple of times got to the postseason. He did
hit over four hundred when he got to the postseason
and seven career postseason games. All in all, a really
good major league career, but kind of an old skills,
old school skills type of hitter, more than the pulseide,
(19:27):
get the ball in the air kind of hitter.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, his home runs would be like kind of line
drives if I remember properly. Well, you're just describing a
guy just based on observation. I would never have thought
that was a concern of his being anxious or fast
about certain things, beause he always had that a little
bit of flambayants about him. The way he played exuberance.
(19:51):
Maybe that was a method just to disguise things. I
don't know, but yeah, I would never have guessed that
he had those kind of personal issues, or he thought
that he did at least. But you're right, a lot
of ground balls, a lot of swinging man, a lot
of swing, but like at times swinging the ball would
fall somewhere and get through a hole whatever. As a shortstop,
I always just thought that if you could just corral
(20:11):
his game a little bit, take a little bit of
the listen. I've never want to take anybody's joy out
of the game. That's not the point. Just to like
I used to tell Gary disar scene on all my
infielders with the Angels and the instructional, I want a
very boring infield, lack of chrome, pick up the ball,
take your proper steps, throw to the first baseman chest high.
(20:34):
That's all I wanted out of my infielders. I wanted
a very boring defense and guys like him. I always
thought that if we could just make him a little
bit more boring, it might benefit him. But again, I
never even would consider the fact that he had any
other kind of issues other than he was very confident.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
But good for him.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I mean too, you know when guys are just totally
bleed honesty, it's it's always very attractive. Just talking about
the situation. That's that's kind of interesting. But good for him.
I like to meet him now. I never really thought
about that in the past, but your description of him
and I was reacted to all this makes him even
(21:12):
more interesting to me.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, he was a seventeenth overall pick back in twenty
seventeen by the White Sox out of East Central Community
College in Mississippi. And you mentioned something, Joe that caught
my attention. You know, he had a way of that,
those ground balls finding a hole.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I looked at Tim Anderson's batting average on balls in play,
and I hate it when people just dismissed batting average
on balls and play as pure luck.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Oh, he's got a low batting average on balls and play.
It's bound to turn around because he's just been unlucky.
That's too simple. Tim Anderson hit three p forty five
when he puts the ball in play, and why he
hit ground balls that were hard and they did find
holes when he hit the ball hard on the ground. Listen,
major league hitters do not want to hit the ball
(22:00):
on the ground, They want to hit line drives. I
get that, But by putting the ball in play and
by being so darn aggressive, he did find a lot
of holes so he needed and did have a high
batting average on balls and play.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
It wasn't luck, It's just the way he played.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And I looked at this in terms of the highest
batting average on balls and play when you think about
guys who played and he did, I think more than
four thousand played appearances. It's the fifth highest, you know,
and number one of the lists was your guy, Rod Carew.
I can't say Rod Carew was lucky on balls in play, right,
(22:38):
And this is since World War Two. I don't think
we have the records going back that far. But it's
the same batting average three forty five for Tim Anderson
that Aaron Judge has, So I think there was something
to his game.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
And again, in today's game, that doesn't necessarily play.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
People want to see more walks, they want to see
more pull side balls in the air. But it worked
for Tim Anderson for a long time until it didn't.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
And Joe, this is what I want to ask you about.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I look at the aging curve of middle infielders, and
they age quickly.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
This year qualified.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Middle infielders age thirty two and older, only one of
them is above average as a hitter, and we're using
adjusted ops. One hundred is average and that'ska tell Marte
with the Diamondbacks only one and you look at a
lot of the guys I mentioned Mookie Betts, Bogart's Trevor
story has been heard. Trey Turner man to me, middle
(23:37):
infielders age quickly, and when it goes, it goes. I
don't know if that's something that that's been part of
your observation, Joe.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Does that include second basement too, or your say middle enfielder.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yeah, that includes second basement.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I mean, look at Marcus Simeon the way he struggled
the last couple of years.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
I mean, these guys tend not to be that big.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Although shortstops are getting much bigger these days and play
a lot and it's a hard, grueling, physically demanding position.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Back in the day, shortstops were just there to catch
the ball right, and if you got a lot of
offense out of them, wonderful. Like Dick Groat, I'm going
way back now. It was one of those offensive middle infielders.
But then again, the Cardinals go to the World Series
with dal Maxwell a short stop. I mean that's who
I got a chance to speak with last winter, by
the way, or two winters ago, which really made.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
My He's got like five rings, by the way. Yeah,
all the Cardinals in the athletics listen.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I could start talking about him, Eddie Spiezio, Jerry Bouchick,
Phil Gagliano, all the different backup infielders for the Cardinals
that I.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Was in love with.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
But I never realized that it was so precipitous the fall. No,
you're right though, ruling the demanding position, A lot of
it is mental to a lot of movement per pitch,
a lot of responsibility just running out for cutoffs and relays,
a lot of demand on accuracy just arm strength and
accuracy is a combined because you cannot have any kind
(25:00):
of babble normally at shortstop and complete to play it
for a space. There's a lot of exactness about that
position that really requires a lot of focus.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You know, Cal Ripken, I mean Cal was an.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Anomaly, kind of a dude period, just by the fact
he played so many games in a Row, but a
lot of his success was positioning. He was very acrit
Here's a kind of guy that was not over stressed
with anything at a real relaxed way of playing, which
I think is important to longevity. Also the detension free
method of playing any game. So I haven't really glommed
(25:33):
onto that. I have not really focused on realizing that.
I'm just as you were talking. I'm thinking about infielder's, infielders,
middle guys that sustained for a period of time, and
I think maybe some of the old time guys, but
there was a different kind of requirement about those people
compared to today's game. And this is going back to one
other thing you talked about hard ground balls and line
drives with Anderson. That was a refrain Rick Down, who
(25:56):
was a very no longer with us. Ricus was a
really good hitting coach. Started at Las Vegas, Freddie Dallamore.
They were quite a dynamic duo's college coaches and Matt
Williams and that group came out of there. That was
refrain that we used a lot with the Angels in
the minor leagues in the eighties, was to hit hard
(26:17):
ground balls and line drives and stay out of the air.
I mean, let's except for the guys that really had
some serious pop, but that was completely different method we wanted.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Line. Of course, line drives, everybody loves those.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
But the hard ground ball was not frowned upon, not choppers,
not slow rollers, not you know, the rollover with a
guy I guess cookie and all of a sudden just
rolls his hands too quickly and as a fungo to
shortstop or third base, that's not the point. But the
guy that could really maintain his hands and his wrists
through the swing and propel a really hard ground ball,
he was desirable. He was very desirable. So all of
(26:54):
these things interesting. I didn't again, a didn't realize the decline,
never thought about it, really, the decline of middle infielders.
And then on the other side of it, the hitting
philosophy was completely different. Back then, stay out of the air.
Sty out of the air was a refrain unless you
had some serious pop.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Speaking of old school, the other day, Tory Leavello, Diamondbacks manager,
let his starting pitcher at Wardo Rodriguez throw one hundred
and fifteen pitches. God bless to you, Joe. It doesn't
sound like a lot into me. In today's game.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
This is amazing. It was only the fifth game all
year in which a pitcher threw one hundred and fifteen pitches.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
It's just crazy. I you know, the barrier. Once pitch
counts became the vogue thing in baseball, it used to
be one hundred and twenty. It's down to one hundred
and ten. Now you rarely see someone throw.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
One hundred and ten pitches.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
In fact, there's only been fourteen games this year where
a pitcher reached one hundred and ten pitches fourteen. If
you go back just ten years, there were four hundred
and eleven games with one hundred and ten pitches. And
if you want to go back to the stone age
of fifteen years ago, was not that long ago. I
(28:04):
mean that's when Nathan of all these careers began. So
it's not like we're going back to old has Radbourne
or Warren spun. If you go back just fifteen years
to twenty eleven, there were nine hundred nineteen.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Games with one hundred and ten pitches.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
We've gone from nine hundred and nineteen to fourteen in
just fifteen years. It's a completely different game. It's a
max out game. And to help explain this, Joe. I
actually looked at the average fastball velocity by inning in
a Major League game, and from the first to the
(28:41):
ninth inning, the first is lowest and the ninth inning
is the highest. The modulation back then, fifteen years ago
was more than two miles per hour. Now it's almost
half of a mile an hour point six.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Miles per hour.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So there is no modulation that the starting pitcher in
the first inning is throwing harder than the closer did
in the ninth inning fifteen years ago. And it happens
throughout the game. So this is the game that we
have and it's not going back.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
So I'm just trying to create the connection between the
Ecumenical Council and analytics. You know, back in the was
the sixties when the Catholic Church changes a lot of
their rules and regulations and you mean.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Like no more Latin mess exactly. I E.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
So how does that How does that compare to the
point is the Catholic Church changed at that point and
baseball change with the advent of analytics at the point where,
like you said, it ain't going back.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Is it better? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I hear that it is, but I don't necessarily agree
with that. I don't even know if you can compe it.
And what's better, what's worst. I think it's just what
suits your your own mental picture of what the game
should look like and how it should be played, and
what is important, what's not important, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So that's all it is.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
It's just it's just a method it's methodology, it's it's
what's being sought after. Back then, these kind of things
were not it wasn't considered as important to the modulation.
We just wanted starters that can go the third time
through the bat, and we wanted to stay out.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Of the bullpen.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Back then, you wanted to get into the bullpen as
quickly as you could, and now you want to stay
out of the bullpen. And it's just completely reversed it.
I mean, that was part of the structure.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I wrote this thing on hitting in the eighties, and
part of it was to wear down the starting pitching
as much as you can by being more selective at
the play. Thus you're going to get into their bullpen sooner,
which was like underbelly.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Like the fifth, sixth, seventh inning.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
You wanted those guys in the game my god, you
wanted that because normally that they were less stand and
you would get some really good work done. And then
the eighth and ninth any game, guys became moot because
you built up your lead. Yeah, it's just a completely
different version. And I've always talked I used to love
playing the game backward too, meaning I wanted strong stuff
at the backside and if I could get if you
(31:01):
could get to these guys, you felt like it was
kind of a lockdown situation. But I never ran away
from the point that I wanted more out of the starters.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I did. I always did. I when you're.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Managing a game, when you come to the formula component
to it like this, this happens, and this happens, and
this happens. Trying to piece together outs at the end
of the game and feel six you know that you
could do it on a nightly basis successfully needing four innings.
My god, that was a horrible thought, six, seventh, eighth,
and ninth, trying to piece that together with the lead
(31:33):
successfully nightly. Maybe that's a part of this five hundred world.
I don't know, but it was hard. It was really hard.
I love my man. At least if my guy could
get into the seventh inning and you got like two plus,
not so bad. But when your guy can give you
seven your starter, that's your guy eighth and the ninth,
and he become a lot more wow palatable mentally and
(31:56):
something that I thought was more sustainable, sustainable over a
period of time where you could be more successful.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So all those again, I still believe that's the right
way to do it.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I don't think that that should ever become out of vogue,
to have a starter to buy at least for seven
every time he goes out there. I don't think it's
inconceivable to think that you can teach your minor league
starters to pitch a third time through a batting order
by not just airing out everything out from.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
The first pitch on.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
There's ways to get this done that I think you
may actually see more teams plus five hundred in a
more comfortable position right now as opposed to this way
of trying to piece together six five, six innings every night.
I'm telling you, man, and last point, the reason why
it's acceptable when it doesn't work is because that's the
way it's been built, and it's not been built that
(32:49):
way by a manager or a pitching coach.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
It's been built that way.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Analytically, in July, major league starting pitchers averaged five point
three innings per start. That's the lowest and the month
of in the history of this game. There were only
two complete games thrown in July, Dylan Cease and Yeshobu Yamamoto.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
That's the first time in July there's been so few
complete games. And I get this, Joe, that the way
pitchers pitched in today's game, it is about swing and miss,
It is about maxing out from the very first pitch
of the game.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
It's a much more rigorous physical endeavor that it's ever been,
and the torque on these arms is crazy because of
how hard they throw. But I just don't believe in,
you know, a cookie cutter approach where if you have,
you know, take five starters per team times thirty teams,
that you can treat all one fifty the same way.
(33:50):
That there's not a few guys out there who can
modulate their stuff, who know how to pitch the third
time through the lineup, who still can be strong through
one hundred and fifteen, one hundred and twenty pitches, let's
saying you do that every start, but in certain scenarios.
But it's like there's this hard barrier, this hard stop
for everybody.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Now, that's what I don't get.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And I've talked to Edward Edward of Rodriguez, and he
has not had a complete game in his career and
he wants to finish games and he's asking Tory Leavella
to let him do that. He's gonna have to have
a lower pitch count than one fifteen to do that.
But the point from my point of view, Joe, is
that there are certain guys who can do it. I
think the vast majority can't. And I'm not saying we
(34:31):
you know, it was a better game back then. I'm
not saying that at all. I just think that there
are some guys out there who you can trust to
manage their stuff and take your team through the seventh
or eighth inning with one hundred and twenty pitches.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, that's that's I'm telling you.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I Again, everybody is on this has the same playbook,
and how is it working out for most of them? Again,
if five hundred becomes the objective this time of the year,
so that you know, at least to the trade deadline
so that we could consider ourselves.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Viable at least to make a wild car run. That's
a poor objective. I don't understand that objective.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
I mean, for me, like I've talked about, it's always
been about breaking out and you want to get too good.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Start that.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I want to get five above five hundred. Then I
want to be ten above five hundred. Fifteen twenty you
had to be at least while I was working at
least twenty games above five hundred. It seems to be
even considered to get invited to the dance twenty five over. Yeah,
you're in pretty good shape, but that's not even considered.
I mean, it's like that's such an considered an anomaly
(35:31):
right now where that was a part, Like the first
year I think we went with the Cubbies to the
playoffs fifteen, I think we had like ninety seven wins
and we were behind Pittsburgh and Saint Louis in our
division with the number of wins that we had. Why
is this considered such the right way to do things?
Of mediocrity is the result. I don't get that. I
don't get that, and what you are receiving, what's occurring
(35:54):
is exactly what the desire is, and that's to be
five hundred. Why don't you desire to be more than that?
And okay, how do I do that? Well, if everybody's
looking and doing the same thing and we're all getting
the same result, I mean, there's an extended definition of
insanity right there that could be applied to this, I think. So,
I just I don't get it. I don't get it
the Dodgers, of course, there's the anomaly teams, but then
(36:16):
you look at the Rays and the Brewers, and again
they have zagged when everybody else is zigging and it's
working for them.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It just makes no sense to me.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
That you want to attract five innings starting pitchers and
have to put together four innings on a nightly basis
out of your bullpen.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I think you're going to be successful.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
That's insane, not only from the fact that these guys
have to be perfect again, but then the wear and
tear of doing this often enough that these guys become
fatigued and they become less stand by the end of
the season.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Hey, good stuff, Joe, I got some news for you
as it relates to the National League MVP sho Hey
Otani is no longer the favorite.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
To win that award? Can you believe it? We'll explain
who it is and why right after this.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
I'm a book of Joe, Well, Joe, It's something that
hasn't happened in the last three years. Show Hey, Otani
is not the favorite at this point to win NL MVP.
(37:22):
That role now belongs to Pete crow Armstrong of the
Chicago Cubs, who has a higher war and if you
follow any of the betting sites, a better chance of
winning the MVP than show Hey. Now we mentioned show
Hayes resumed his throwing program. He's already made fourteen starts
and he'll be back on the mound before this year
(37:43):
is out, and probably a handful more starts left in
his season. So, by no means rule that guy out.
I tell people all the time, he's one of those freaks.
He keeps having our jaws drop. You know, don't put
anything past him. So, by no means am I saying
PCA is going to win this award. But for the
(38:04):
first time, really it's a race in the National League
between show Hey and PCA. I'm just blown away by
Pete crow Armstrong and his continued level of growth, especially
when it comes to plate discipline, hitting, left handed pitching,
and now the power. PCA is a slugger. If you
look at his hitting profile right now. For a guy
(38:25):
who I thought, you know, kind of looked like Corey
Patterson as a center fielder for the Cubs, he looks
like Kyle Schwarber now in terms of his pull side
in the air, the way he drives a baseball, the
authority in which he's hitting the baseball. He's a full
blown slugger right now, who also is stealing more than
twenty bags and playing what might be the best defensive
center field in all of baseball.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
That's what Show hayes up against this time. We've got
a race here in the MVP.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Joe, I got a couple of times. First of all,
does anybody tell show.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Hey that I think he knows it says.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
If he reads that, he could we could be in
for quite a rest of August September. If he knows that,
like you said, he probably does. He's heard that. So
heads up on Show. If that really sinks in with him,
which I think it will, just heads up, you might
see the best last six weeks of his season you've
ever seen number two. I really like Pete. I've gotten
(39:17):
to know him going to Chicago. I had a great
conversation with him last January at the Cup conventions, just
he and I ended up in backstage for a bit,
and god, I really liked him. He he's a baseball historian.
He loves the game, he knows what's happened before, he
knows his place, all these different things he's entertaining, He's humble,
(39:38):
is very It's just a really nice package of positive
components for him.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I like him. Would not be disappointed.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I mean, show hey and I go back, and I
don't really have never really worked with Pete, but I've
had great conversation that would be there's nothing wrong with that.
This guy would represent all of that very well. So
this is interesting and I definitely will follow this more closely.
But then that my other text with all this with Pete,
You're describing him, and I'm thinking of Steve Finley and
(40:09):
Brady Anderson, you know, and when he started popping, I.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Mean, really, it's like a lot like Finn. I don't
know what you know.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
I know, Finn has like one of the leads the
world in triples, some kind of record with triples, and
then Brady Anderson. I know he put together that one
fifty home run season, but you know, Bill Wise not
that big. I mean, although Brady got really strong that year.
But I think Steve Finley is a real good comp
for Pete just thinking about it, because Finn and I
got to be good friends when he was with the Angels.
(40:40):
We spoke all the time. I still when I see him,
it's a great conversation. Took us out to dinner one
time at a great restaurant on Long Island.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
That's my comp. I mean, I'm thinking, like, never Steve
Finley was.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Never really considered an MVP candidate, was he or did
he ever get close?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Do you know that?
Speaker 1 (40:56):
No, Steve Finley, by the time he was twenty eight,
had not hit more than eight home runs in a season, okay,
and he started banging thirty of him almost on an
annual basis, so a little I think the comp is
is dead on though. You're talking about you know, fast
twitch guys play center field, can run, who grow into
(41:17):
power in PCA's case, and he's grown into it very quickly.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Like the real angular, strong face lithe bodies. Yeah, I mean,
that's that's I'm sticking to that. I I that's as
you were describing him. I thought of Finn's He's like Finn,
maybe maturing earlier than maybe Finn did, but very similar
in his ability.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
While we've reached that point of the show Joe where
you take us home with some words of wisdom, what
do you got for us today to end this episode
of the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Well, I guess probably, like always everything kind of if
you weave it enough, it'll attach. But the thing that
I was thinking about today was just a summer in general,
the summer of twenty six. I had a lot of
responsibilities myself this year, with whether it was Cup Convention,
going to the cub Reunion and all the It's definitely
like these all these charity golf tournaments, dates on your calendar,
(42:08):
having to go here, go there. But it's something that
I always when I, you know, sometimes you just don't want.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You just don't want to have to move, get on
a plane, whatever, go. But I always would say afterwards,
we follow I checked that box, we follow through. So
I was looking that up today and Eddie Rickenbacker pretty famous, dude,
I can give you a six word formula for success.
Think things through, then follow through. And I would say
(42:33):
that all these successful people that we're talking about, whether
it's Show, whether it's Pete, whether Finn in the background,
Brady Anderson, all these different really talk about the Dodgers
infield while they're not successful right now, or whether they're
slumping of the Phillies. But among all these I think
there's a common thread among all really successful people. And
(42:54):
it was encapsulated in this quote that I got today.
There was others that I liked, but I like this
one because it was succinct. I can give you a
six word formula for success. Things through and then following through,
follow through, Because like when you go to like I'll
go somewhere, We're going to go somewhere, and other people
have said they're going to go, and then they don't go.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Just say I'm not going to go. Now.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Sometimes there's a legitimate reason, absolutely things pop up, no question,
but all of a suddenhen people just yeah, I don't
want to go. It's it's too inconvenient. That to me
is that's the wrong answer. So I love that, and
I think all these successful people we talked about today,
they will think things true and then they're going to
follow through.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah, I think you're talking about reliability.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
That is so important, right that, And you know some
people are super reliable, others not so much. And again
getting back to what we talked about the beginning, the Dodgers,
their reliability to me is what separates them, and they
take nothing for granted.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
They're very well repaired.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
I agree with you they're kind of going through a
little bit of the doldrums here. It happens in the
course of the season. We've seen it with the Yankees
every summer as well. But when it comes to coming
through and following through in the big moments. You know,
it's a cliche to say baseball players and teams are
battle tested, but they certainly are. They rise to moments
when they need to rise, you know, going back when
(44:13):
they were on the ropes against the Padres and the
Division Series a couple of years ago, last year a
Game seven. Of course, it's not like this is a
juggernaut that they're just steamrolling people through the postseason. But
they follow through in the big moments and that's why
they're still even though it hasn't been a great last
couple of weeks for them, the chalk in major League Baseball.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
That's put on me because that when you're as you're
saying all that reminds me of the quote that we
use today. That's what that's the that's the essence. That's
the importance of the everyday player. And I don't know
that people give that enough credit. Like I was thinking
about Garrett Anderson, Jay always answered the bell you do.
You could write that name in there. You know he's
(44:57):
going to go out there. You know what to expect,
blah blah blah, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The guys,
that's it, and it's really hard to do baseball. They
standing around a lot. It's such a mental grind, and
even standing around could be physical. So that really is
a great I think things through them fall through. That's
a really good description of the everyday player, the guy that,
(45:20):
for a variety of different reasons, realizes the importance that
I have signed on to do this. I want to
be out there. I need to be out there. This
has bothered me today, but I'm going to play somehow.
And you know what, that little bump, bruise, whatever kind
of goes away via adrenaline during the course of the game,
and the player that shows up that checks that box
is a difference maker. So talking about your dud the Dodgers,
(45:43):
how many of those does are difference makers just by
being in that lineup, just when the opposition has to
see Betts, Freeman, Talker O, Tawny Smith, all these guys
that they have over there, Hernanez. That matters even if
you're not playing well and if your batting average is
not what it needs to be. The combination of those
(46:04):
names and showing up puts pressure on the other side.
And the game is such an ebb and flow kind
of a situation. You just never know when you're gonna
catch fire. Where are that seminal moment's going to occur
that all of a sudden, the whole world changes. So
don't underestimate the everyday player and the impact that he has.
And then when you have a group of names that
when they're when they're listed together, the impact it has
(46:27):
on that group being successful or the intimidation it has
on the other side.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
I got one more name for you in that van.
What do you got, Matt Olsen Grave. You know, I
think we spend so much time looking at rate stats
that if you talk to people like you, managers around
the game, the reliable player who's in that lineup and
producing on a reliable basis is so valuable.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
And Matt Olson, to me, is the epitome of that.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
He got dude, never misses a game and is still
very productive. And Freddie Freeman is along those same lines
of course as well. I think that tends to be
overrated by some of the MVP voters or just analysts
in the game. But when you talk to managers, knowing
you can count on that player that no matter what
he might be feeling that day, he's not even gonna
(47:17):
tell you that something's barking. You just counted him to
be in the lineup and you want him up there
with a runner on second base.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Different animal.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Those are different animals, And that's why the Yankees can
win so many World Series. That's why they can be
that good on an annual basis. They didn't have just
one of those guys. That's several of those guys on
an annual basis. And you know when a team maybe
wins and all of a sudden falls off the next year,
they don't have Michael Jordan, they don't have a Larry Bird.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
They don't have a Derek Jeter within the group. That's
you need the freak.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Yeah, you need the freak to be within that group
to be annually consistent. And then when you have several
of them on the same team that that really, you know,
speaks to success, bleeds for success.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
That's all.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
That's all a necessary ingredient to be great on an
annual basis and not just for one season.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
Think it through and follow through.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's it, baby.
Speaker 4 (48:13):
Good words of advice, Joe, great.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Job, See you buddy, Thank you man.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
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The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Daron, welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast
with me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Men Joe
wrened what they call the dog days of August. We
(00:27):
were just talking. You might call them the biblical days too.
When it comes to these sheets of rain and heat
and humidity. I mean, I guess is what's living in
the tropics is like how you handle it?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, I'm sweating a little bit. It is.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
It's tropic thunder up here in northeastern Pennsylvania. We were
just a couple of golf and we were talking about
the golf tournaments and how HoTT it spin out of
this and it's really the first world problems, right, really tough,
but it's been it's been different. It's I think I'm
kind of reminiscent of going to the Dominican Republic or
any place way south, or even Florida. Florida gets some
(01:01):
magnificent rainstorm, but then it's combined with humidity and it's
a multiple shower.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Kind of day.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I want to know if you're sweating when it comes
to the Los Angeles Dodgers, because I don't know.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Watching them play the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I know they're the Dodgers and they'll be fine and
when all is said and done.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
But are they a little more vulnerable?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I say that because they're in the danger of not
getting one of the first two seeds in the National League.
Now you could say, listen, it happened last year, right
they had to play Cincinnati in the first round. Didn't
hurt them at all because they wound up winning the
World Series. It's a little bit different this year. I
mean Cincinnati kind of backdoor into the postseason. Last year
weren't a great team. You might find yourself playing at
(01:46):
Philadelphia Phillies in a wildcard round if you don't get
one of those first two buys. And right now they
actually trail the Braves for that second seed in the NL.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Give me thumbnail sketch.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And where the Dodgers are at right now? You watch
them a lot, you know, Schooble just you know, picked
up the headline. He's made two starts for them. Looked, okay,
give me the temperature of where the Dodgers are.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I mean this in the most non combative way. They're
kind of like baseball board right now. They'll they'll snap
out of it, I believe from their recent successes and
even the beginning of this year kicking butt, et cetera,
et cetera, getting school, but which is like, what else
could they have done better than that?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I just think they're like in.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
That baseball board moment you talked about August right now,
and it is tough. Sometimes I don't even know what
their schedules look like, bouncing back and forth between east
and West. I'm not sure, but those things kind of happen.
So that's all I'm seeing right now. I think they'll
they'll write the ship, They'll they'll turn this that dimmer
switch back up to full bore, and then they'll start
(02:51):
playing like they can as the season gets into September.
And actually, like, I don't even know if they've been
in hot weather. I just I don't know that much
about I do watch them, but I don't even watch
where they're at. So yeah, I just think it's a
baseball board concept right now. This is the time of
the years. I wrote something down as you began the
conversation about the American Allegian Week, which I used to
(03:12):
do annually, whether it was with the Rays or the Cubs.
I nay even did it. I think once with the Angels.
That's where you just show up and you play. You
just like I picked a week in the middle to
the end of August. I just had on a homestand
guys would just show up five o'clock, put your uniform on.
I very rarely utilize the phrase I don't care. That's
(03:36):
not a good phrase, but just do what you need
to do to get ready, because I really don't care
what that is. I just I want a fresh body
of fresh mind, and that's to me the best way
to snap out of these things. Everybody they start panicking,
Oh my god, what's wrong. I mean, it's we need
to work harder, we need to give them more information
or whatever, all this this this crazy stuff. They just
(03:59):
need to clear their minds a little bit. They make
sure that their bodies are rested, they feel good. So
this is why I thought American Legion Week was so
great at this time of the month during the year.
Is just show up and play the game at baseball
like we did when we were kids, where we did
not require so much extra batting practice, looking at videos, whatever,
(04:19):
whatever seems to be the jour right now. I think
it's this is the time of the year. Go about,
you go throwback, you know, kick the bench, shake hands,
play the game. And if they did something like that
right now, I think that would really revitalize them.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I always liked that idea, Joe, and I think today's game.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
There's a lot of players would have a hard time
with that.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean that the stuff that goes on, the amount
of hitting they do, off, all the different machines that
they do.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And they do it every day.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
It's crazy how much goes on that people don't see
because obviously it's done now.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
And these these new facilities that the teams.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Have, especially in their home ballparks, that can accommodate so
many different players in so many different ways in the
pregame work.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
But I love the idea.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's a good way to just kind of relax the
mind and the body as well. Where is the Dodgers Listen,
Kyle Tucker, Mookie Betts, Tayo Hernandez.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
They're all having down years. I'm not sure that's going
to turn around.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Mooki is one of those guys to me though, that
he's a playmaker in a big moment, you know, he's
going to get the hit, he's going to make the
playoff defense.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
You just don't worry about him.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
But I think on the day to day basis, the
game has definitely declined a bit, especially when it comes
to Mooki hitting fastballs, and Tucker, to me, just he's
got a very unorthodox swing and it's just has not
been right this whole year for whatever reason.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
So vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I mean, that's probably going a little too far, Joe,
But I do think that there's things that this team
needs to do before they get to the postseason.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I do think getting that first buy is a big thing.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know a lot of people say just get in,
but I've talked to Dave Roberts about this and he said, no,
our goal is to get that buy in the first round.
That really does set up your pitching. Doesn't mean you
can't go through it the way the Dodgers did last year,
And I do think they're going to wind up them
in Milwaukee with the top two seeds in the National League.
And as far as school bol goes pretty much on
(06:09):
point of what we expected here.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
He's a very emotional guy.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
First home start was Monday night, kind of sprayed the
fastball a little bit. Two starts under one hundred pitches
in each one, not a lot of length. I expected
that that's the way they're going to ride him. Here
going to October, and you've got Otani resuming a throwing program.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Now he's going to come back as an opener.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
And I think they just backdated from the postseason to now,
almost like a spring training throwing progression program. And I
do think there'll be a six inning guy by the
time we get to October. So listen, if you're going
into October with hell, I don't even know how you
would order these guys, Joe Schoolable, Otani, snell Yamamoto, who's
going to take him out right?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And again, vulnerable compared to who? I guess you know.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
The Padres right it themselves a little bit. Actually, the
Diamondbacks have righted themselves a little bit. But who are
they vulnerable compared to whatever these other teams are. It
would be a situation where one of the other suitors
just get blazing hot at the right time would be
the only way to beat them. And then if you
go into the other divisions you talked about the Phillies,
(07:12):
et cetera, I don't know. I just when it comes
down to pure talent and like you just you just
mentioned it, pitching talent. I know there's other teams that
have made themselves somewhat better on the mound to face
the Dodger in the lineup, but vulnerable compared to who's
who's the group that really is able to ascend past them.
And I think again it's the fact that some of
(07:33):
these other teams have not done winning World Series, et cetera,
that there's still that carrot still out there that might
possibly motivate them a click more than the Dodgers who
are just trying to do like about three in a
row now.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
But that's it. I I you know, a really good
guy you just mentioned to me.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
You mentioned, you know, Betts and Freddie and Tucker and whomever.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Else they have.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
These guys are just they have that other level ability.
They really do have a switch that I think that
can be turned on again. I would just really want
to make sure that they're rested mentally and physically as
much as they possibly can be before we get to
September when you may have to take the whip out
a little bit. But these guys are so good at
(08:15):
what they do, and the really to me, the mind
is what controls success. In the mind this time of
the year is with control success in combined with the
fact that you're just not out of gas. There are
no gas stations to pull up to along the way.
When when somebody really gets to the point that they're
saturated to the that they just have nothing left, that's difficult.
(08:37):
So you've got to be aware of that. So I
just think if they do this right right now, meaning
back off just a little bit, permit them some latitude
mentally and physically, I think they'll be fined by September.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Well, you have to respect the Milwaukee Brewers as a
team most likely in the National League to take them out,
just because they have the best record in baseball, they
have the best run differential in baseball, and you know
they don't have to put the pedal to the floor
to finish out this season. You're seeing them basically turning
Jacob Misearowski into a Sunday pitcher, you know, pitching once
a week to make sure that he is fresh, because
(09:10):
they have to win his starts in my book, to
run through the postseason environment. And there's a good chance
that he can do that, so you respect what they do,
although they're trying to do it without much power.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And we talk about this a lot. It's been six.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Years now where the teams in the top three or
four and home run hitting have won the World Series.
It's hard for them to go through all these rounds
without changing the game with a swing or two.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
But Milwaukee have to respect the way that they play baseball.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
After that, I think Joe, you and I have also
had a lot of respect for the Phillies as a
postseason team. Now they're going to have to grind just
to get into the postseason. There's no guarantee that they're in.
It's not like they can start backing off of people.
And here's the thing. When I look at the Phillies show,
when they start one of their big three in the rotation,
you know, Sanchez, Wheeler, Luzardo, they're forty.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Eight and nineteen.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
When it's anybody else, there's sixteen and thirty seven, sixteen
thirty seven from the four and five spots in the rotation.
They you know, they brought back Andrew Painter from the
minor leagues. You know he used to throw like an
iron mic, completely over the top it looks to me
like they've dropped his arm angle about ten degrees and
the fastball maybe is a little less hittable than it
(10:21):
was before. Still slugging over six hundred against his fastball.
And if you break him down, Joe, and I know
you look at these things. His release point for his
fastball and his breaking stuff, it varies by like four
or five inches. It's a big difference. You'd much rather
have that ball coming out of the same slot. So
stuff wise is good. I just think hitrors kind of
see his stuff straight over the top guy with different
(10:43):
release points more than they should.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
So listen, do you get fifth started to win the
World Series? No, but you're gonna need everybody. But I
still to get into the postseason.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
But I still think the Phillies are a team that
in a short series, especially a five game series, and
they pushed the Dodgers last year that they're a team
capable of taking out La Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I would.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Watching Painter a little bit more recently, I didn't really
realize the difference between the slots. But that's so recognizable
at home plate. I mean, for those that are listening
that you've really not done that it is. And then
that's that's because the kid's got a good arm, but
he's been getting beaten up pretty badly. He looked walking
off the mound the other and that was that last
night or the night before. But did he look more
(11:27):
confident walking off the money? You know, he had better results?
So I don't know, you know what's going on there.
I know he came in with a lot of value
who and it just hasn't been realized.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
But I just liked the look better.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And then this is my thing watching somebody's body language stuff.
He looked a little bit more confident walking from the
mound to the to the dugout because obviously he had
better results. But that stuff is really identifiable. And then
going back to the Rais and the Brewers that is,
but the Brewers are Tampa Bay North and the Razor
(11:59):
Milwaukee South. This is like in the mirror kind of stuff.
And I would love that's the series I'd like to see.
And I know you talked about the power and et cetera.
I watched a little bit of the Rays in the
athletics last night and how they came back and at
a big inning late Damn, they're just they're just playing it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Right right now. They have a lot of energy on
the field. Simpson.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I like him a lot, regardless of where he's hot
or cold. And he provides that one of those energy
guys you know. And then of Kevin Harrows. I mean
this kid, his swinging batspeed, and even as a third
basement he's just sending I there's a lot to like
there too.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But they are.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
This is like when you look in the mirror, they're
seeing each other. So it's from from a purely entertainment
perspective and actually all possibly even just from an ability perspective.
These they may be the two most interesting teams to
watch play a World Series this year.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
It'll be an interesting stretch run.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
It's crazy that twenty two of the thirty teams are
within five games of a playoff spot.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yeah, I mean, listen, you've got the Tigers. They're in it.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
After trading two starting pitchers schoobl in miz they actually
have this is crazy, the best run differential in the
American League. The Texas Rangers hold the third wildcard spot.
They've been outscored by thirty runs and they're a game
over five hundred. The Minnesota Twins are game and a
half out of a wildcard spot. They're two games under
(13:28):
five hundred, been outscored by thirty one runs. I have
no idea, Joe, what's going to happen in the American League.
I really don't. I mean, you may have a team
get in with eighty two or eighty three wins and
that keeps everybody in play.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I don't even know who's good, who's in it, who's not.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
My rule of thumb tends to be at least get
over five hundred and then I'll take you seriously as
a playoff team. Until then, you know, you got to
prove to me that you're an actual contender.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
This is like Pete Roselle's MLB right back in.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
All he wanted was a competitive five hundred kind of
a thing everybody able to possible at the end of
the year, be part of the dance. That's what's happening
right now. And it's been unintentionally intentional. The way it's
turned out just based on the fact, like we've talked about,
so many organizations just want to mirror each other, the
(14:19):
fact that nobody really wants to step out.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You could say that the race stepped out. They're different.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
The Brewers are different than the normal beat of MLB,
the Dodgers because of their combination of being able to
sign big names while still developing really good players. So
it's just it's like, it's not a surprise, And I
was looking at the standings today, actually gosh like teams
(14:44):
that are under five hundred still within reach of a
wild card situation. But there's when you look at the
teams you have to climb to get there. It becomes
more unlikely because somebody has to really take off. They
have to go Red Sox on you, and somebody's got
a totally tank in order for this kind of stuff
to happen. Whereas when teams are at the part of
the year, the records are who they are, like mister
(15:06):
Parcel says, so you just hard to expect a team
that's mediocre or less than to all of a sudden
become better than. It just doesn't normally work out that way.
So whatever you're seeing right now is going to pretty
hold true. I think right about now, from now to
the end of the year, again, the Red Sox have
already been the team that has done the abnormal breakaway.
(15:27):
It's hard to see that somebody else although the Poudreis
have become a little bit more interesting right now.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I'm looking at the Diamondbacks.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I watched them a little bit on video today and
they got a little energy going on there. They got
some stuff, and Aaron Ood's having a decent year. I
think his ops is right around seven fifty. He's sending
some homers. When this guy came up, he was outstanding.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So there's it's.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Almost like the Latter Day Long Gloria when they brought
long Ago in out there. Kind of the same kind
of a guy. So I'm seeing some energy out of
them also. So there's a couple interesting groups. But the
people that are below five hundred buying for a wild
card spot, and there's other layers of those sub five
(16:10):
hundred teams that's just going to be like a lucky
break or two at the.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
End of the year.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I don't see any of them really getting hot to
the point that they looked like what the Red Sox did.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I'm with you on Arizona, by the way. They look
really good.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And now Kevin Ginkel, whose stuff had been down, is
really bounced back last two outings. It looks like he's
going to become Tory Lebello's closer. It's been that good
and he's certainly when he's right, has that kind of stuff,
especially with the slider. I would definitely buy stocking the
Diamondbacks the way that they're playing and in the American League. Listen,
two years ago, the Tigers had the run to get
(16:42):
into the postseason after trading Jack Flaherty. People didn't see
that coming. Last year it was Cleveland. The Guardians had
an amazing run to get back in it and catch
Clee Detroit.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I just don't see anybody breaking out from that pack.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So again, I'm expecting, if you can get to eighty three,
you got a good shot at making the postseason as
a third wildcard in the American League. Joe, I'm not
sure if you caught it, but there was a hirement
announcement on Monday, a former batting champion calling it quits.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
We'll talk about that decision and what.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
It means for baseball these days right after this on
the Book of Joe. Welcome Back to the Book of Joe.
Tim Anderson called the quits Joe. I mean he had
(17:34):
not been playing this year. Released last year by the Angels.
He is a former batting champion, the guy with more
than a thousand major league hits.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Very interesting career.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And what's interesting was if you heard Tim Anderson and
he was on a conference call promoting the Field of
Dreams game this week. Because when you think of Tim Anderson,
at least me, I first think about his home run,
walk off home run in the first Field of Dreams games.
It's the most cinematic, most visually beautiful baseball game I've
ever seen. I really mean that, a home run into
the cornfield with the fireworks going overhead. Just crazy, finished
(18:10):
to a crazy game. But Tim Anderson talked about the
stress of playing and he said, I'm even nervous talking
right now about the game of baseball, like it caused
him some anxiety. And this we're talking about a two
time All Star and a batting champion with a thousand hits,
very accomplished in the game. I thought it was very
revealing and honest from Tim Anderson. I say this about
(18:34):
Tim Anderson, Joe, he was a guy who put the
ball in play on the ground. If he started his
career in today's game, I'm sure somebody would have brought
him into a lab and said, you've got to get
the ball in the air, so he did win a
bag title. Was, as I said, an all star, a
really good shortstop for a long time, basically never walked.
I mean this guy walked one hundred and fifty three
(18:56):
times in ten years. Talk about fifteen walks a year.
Less than one time a week. Tim Anderson would take
a walk.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
But he had a way of shooting the ball to
the other side of the field.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And yes, a major ground ball hitter without a ton
of power, but the White Sox did wooden with him
a couple of times got to the postseason. He did
hit over four hundred when he got to the postseason
and seven career postseason games. All in all, a really
good major league career, but kind of an old skills,
old school skills type of hitter, more than the pulseide,
(19:27):
get the ball in the air kind of hitter.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, his home runs would be like kind of line
drives if I remember properly. Well, you're just describing a
guy just based on observation. I would never have thought
that was a concern of his being anxious or fast
about certain things, beause he always had that a little
bit of flambayants about him. The way he played exuberance.
(19:51):
Maybe that was a method just to disguise things. I
don't know, but yeah, I would never have guessed that
he had those kind of personal issues, or he thought
that he did at least. But you're right, a lot
of ground balls, a lot of swinging man, a lot
of swing, but like at times swinging the ball would
fall somewhere and get through a hole whatever. As a shortstop,
I always just thought that if you could just corral
(20:11):
his game a little bit, take a little bit of
the listen. I've never want to take anybody's joy out
of the game. That's not the point. Just to like
I used to tell Gary disar scene on all my
infielders with the Angels and the instructional, I want a
very boring infield, lack of chrome, pick up the ball,
take your proper steps, throw to the first baseman chest high.
(20:34):
That's all I wanted out of my infielders. I wanted
a very boring defense and guys like him. I always
thought that if we could just make him a little
bit more boring, it might benefit him. But again, I
never even would consider the fact that he had any
other kind of issues other than he was very confident.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
But good for him.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I mean too, you know when guys are just totally
bleed honesty, it's it's always very attractive. Just talking about
the situation. That's that's kind of interesting. But good for him.
I like to meet him now. I never really thought
about that in the past, but your description of him
and I was reacted to all this makes him even
(21:12):
more interesting to me.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, he was a seventeenth overall pick back in twenty
seventeen by the White Sox out of East Central Community
College in Mississippi. And you mentioned something, Joe that caught
my attention. You know, he had a way of that,
those ground balls finding a hole.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I looked at Tim Anderson's batting average on balls in play,
and I hate it when people just dismissed batting average
on balls and play as pure luck.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Oh, he's got a low batting average on balls and play.
It's bound to turn around because he's just been unlucky.
That's too simple. Tim Anderson hit three p forty five
when he puts the ball in play, and why he
hit ground balls that were hard and they did find
holes when he hit the ball hard on the ground. Listen,
major league hitters do not want to hit the ball
(22:00):
on the ground, They want to hit line drives. I
get that, But by putting the ball in play and
by being so darn aggressive, he did find a lot
of holes so he needed and did have a high
batting average on balls and play.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
It wasn't luck, It's just the way he played.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And I looked at this in terms of the highest
batting average on balls and play when you think about
guys who played and he did, I think more than
four thousand played appearances. It's the fifth highest, you know,
and number one of the lists was your guy, Rod Carew.
I can't say Rod Carew was lucky on balls in play, right,
(22:38):
And this is since World War Two. I don't think
we have the records going back that far. But it's
the same batting average three forty five for Tim Anderson
that Aaron Judge has, So I think there was something
to his game.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
And again, in today's game, that doesn't necessarily play.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
People want to see more walks, they want to see
more pull side balls in the air. But it worked
for Tim Anderson for a long time until it didn't.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
And Joe, this is what I want to ask you about.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I look at the aging curve of middle infielders, and
they age quickly.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
This year qualified.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Middle infielders age thirty two and older, only one of
them is above average as a hitter, and we're using
adjusted ops. One hundred is average and that'ska tell Marte
with the Diamondbacks only one and you look at a
lot of the guys I mentioned Mookie Betts, Bogart's Trevor
story has been heard. Trey Turner man to me, middle
(23:37):
infielders age quickly, and when it goes, it goes. I
don't know if that's something that that's been part of
your observation, Joe.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Does that include second basement too, or your say middle enfielder.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yeah, that includes second basement.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I mean, look at Marcus Simeon the way he struggled
the last couple of years.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
I mean, these guys tend not to be that big.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Although shortstops are getting much bigger these days and play
a lot and it's a hard, grueling, physically demanding position.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Back in the day, shortstops were just there to catch
the ball right, and if you got a lot of
offense out of them, wonderful. Like Dick Groat, I'm going
way back now. It was one of those offensive middle infielders.
But then again, the Cardinals go to the World Series
with dal Maxwell a short stop. I mean that's who
I got a chance to speak with last winter, by
the way, or two winters ago, which really made.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
My He's got like five rings, by the way. Yeah,
all the Cardinals in the athletics listen.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I could start talking about him, Eddie Spiezio, Jerry Bouchick,
Phil Gagliano, all the different backup infielders for the Cardinals
that I.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Was in love with.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
But I never realized that it was so precipitous the fall. No,
you're right though, ruling the demanding position, A lot of
it is mental to a lot of movement per pitch,
a lot of responsibility just running out for cutoffs and relays,
a lot of demand on accuracy just arm strength and
accuracy is a combined because you cannot have any kind
(25:00):
of babble normally at shortstop and complete to play it
for a space. There's a lot of exactness about that
position that really requires a lot of focus.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You know, Cal Ripken, I mean Cal was an.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Anomaly, kind of a dude period, just by the fact
he played so many games in a Row, but a
lot of his success was positioning. He was very acrit
Here's a kind of guy that was not over stressed
with anything at a real relaxed way of playing, which
I think is important to longevity. Also the detension free
method of playing any game. So I haven't really glommed
(25:33):
onto that. I have not really focused on realizing that.
I'm just as you were talking. I'm thinking about infielder's, infielders,
middle guys that sustained for a period of time, and
I think maybe some of the old time guys, but
there was a different kind of requirement about those people
compared to today's game. And this is going back to one
other thing you talked about hard ground balls and line
drives with Anderson. That was a refrain Rick Down, who
(25:56):
was a very no longer with us. Ricus was a
really good hitting coach. Started at Las Vegas, Freddie Dallamore.
They were quite a dynamic duo's college coaches and Matt
Williams and that group came out of there. That was
refrain that we used a lot with the Angels in
the minor leagues in the eighties, was to hit hard
(26:17):
ground balls and line drives and stay out of the air.
I mean, let's except for the guys that really had
some serious pop, but that was completely different method we wanted.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Line. Of course, line drives, everybody loves those.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
But the hard ground ball was not frowned upon, not choppers,
not slow rollers, not you know, the rollover with a
guy I guess cookie and all of a sudden just
rolls his hands too quickly and as a fungo to
shortstop or third base, that's not the point. But the
guy that could really maintain his hands and his wrists
through the swing and propel a really hard ground ball,
he was desirable. He was very desirable. So all of
(26:54):
these things interesting. I didn't again, a didn't realize the decline,
never thought about it, really, the decline of middle infielders.
And then on the other side of it, the hitting
philosophy was completely different. Back then, stay out of the air.
Sty out of the air was a refrain unless you
had some serious pop.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Speaking of old school, the other day, Tory Leavello, Diamondbacks manager,
let his starting pitcher at Wardo Rodriguez throw one hundred
and fifteen pitches. God bless to you, Joe. It doesn't
sound like a lot into me. In today's game.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
This is amazing. It was only the fifth game all
year in which a pitcher threw one hundred and fifteen pitches.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
It's just crazy. I you know, the barrier. Once pitch
counts became the vogue thing in baseball, it used to
be one hundred and twenty. It's down to one hundred
and ten. Now you rarely see someone throw.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
One hundred and ten pitches.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
In fact, there's only been fourteen games this year where
a pitcher reached one hundred and ten pitches fourteen. If
you go back just ten years, there were four hundred
and eleven games with one hundred and ten pitches. And
if you want to go back to the stone age
of fifteen years ago, was not that long ago. I
(28:04):
mean that's when Nathan of all these careers began. So
it's not like we're going back to old has Radbourne
or Warren spun. If you go back just fifteen years
to twenty eleven, there were nine hundred nineteen.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Games with one hundred and ten pitches.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
We've gone from nine hundred and nineteen to fourteen in
just fifteen years. It's a completely different game. It's a
max out game. And to help explain this, Joe. I
actually looked at the average fastball velocity by inning in
a Major League game, and from the first to the
(28:41):
ninth inning, the first is lowest and the ninth inning
is the highest. The modulation back then, fifteen years ago
was more than two miles per hour. Now it's almost
half of a mile an hour point six.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Miles per hour.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So there is no modulation that the starting pitcher in
the first inning is throwing harder than the closer did
in the ninth inning fifteen years ago. And it happens
throughout the game. So this is the game that we
have and it's not going back.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
So I'm just trying to create the connection between the
Ecumenical Council and analytics. You know, back in the was
the sixties when the Catholic Church changes a lot of
their rules and regulations and you mean.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Like no more Latin mess exactly. I E.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
So how does that How does that compare to the
point is the Catholic Church changed at that point and
baseball change with the advent of analytics at the point where,
like you said, it ain't going back.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Is it better? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I hear that it is, but I don't necessarily agree
with that. I don't even know if you can compe it.
And what's better, what's worst. I think it's just what
suits your your own mental picture of what the game
should look like and how it should be played, and
what is important, what's not important, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So that's all it is.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
It's just it's just a method it's methodology, it's it's
what's being sought after. Back then, these kind of things
were not it wasn't considered as important to the modulation.
We just wanted starters that can go the third time
through the bat, and we wanted to stay out.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Of the bullpen.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Back then, you wanted to get into the bullpen as
quickly as you could, and now you want to stay
out of the bullpen. And it's just completely reversed it.
I mean, that was part of the structure.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I wrote this thing on hitting in the eighties, and
part of it was to wear down the starting pitching
as much as you can by being more selective at
the play. Thus you're going to get into their bullpen sooner,
which was like underbelly.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Like the fifth, sixth, seventh inning.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
You wanted those guys in the game my god, you
wanted that because normally that they were less stand and
you would get some really good work done. And then
the eighth and ninth any game, guys became moot because
you built up your lead. Yeah, it's just a completely
different version. And I've always talked I used to love
playing the game backward too, meaning I wanted strong stuff
at the backside and if I could get if you
(31:01):
could get to these guys, you felt like it was
kind of a lockdown situation. But I never ran away
from the point that I wanted more out of the starters.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I did. I always did. I when you're.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Managing a game, when you come to the formula component
to it like this, this happens, and this happens, and
this happens. Trying to piece together outs at the end
of the game and feel six you know that you
could do it on a nightly basis successfully needing four innings.
My god, that was a horrible thought, six, seventh, eighth,
and ninth, trying to piece that together with the lead
(31:33):
successfully nightly. Maybe that's a part of this five hundred world.
I don't know, but it was hard. It was really hard.
I love my man. At least if my guy could
get into the seventh inning and you got like two plus,
not so bad. But when your guy can give you
seven your starter, that's your guy eighth and the ninth,
and he become a lot more wow palatable mentally and
(31:56):
something that I thought was more sustainable, sustainable over a
period of time where you could be more successful.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So all those again, I still believe that's the right
way to do it.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I don't think that that should ever become out of vogue,
to have a starter to buy at least for seven
every time he goes out there. I don't think it's
inconceivable to think that you can teach your minor league
starters to pitch a third time through a batting order
by not just airing out everything out from.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
The first pitch on.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
There's ways to get this done that I think you
may actually see more teams plus five hundred in a
more comfortable position right now as opposed to this way
of trying to piece together six five, six innings every night.
I'm telling you, man, and last point, the reason why
it's acceptable when it doesn't work is because that's the
way it's been built, and it's not been built that
(32:49):
way by a manager or a pitching coach.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
It's been built that way.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Analytically, in July, major league starting pitchers averaged five point
three innings per start. That's the lowest and the month
of in the history of this game. There were only
two complete games thrown in July, Dylan Cease and Yeshobu Yamamoto.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
That's the first time in July there's been so few
complete games. And I get this, Joe, that the way
pitchers pitched in today's game, it is about swing and miss,
It is about maxing out from the very first pitch
of the game.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
It's a much more rigorous physical endeavor that it's ever been,
and the torque on these arms is crazy because of
how hard they throw. But I just don't believe in,
you know, a cookie cutter approach where if you have,
you know, take five starters per team times thirty teams,
that you can treat all one fifty the same way.
(33:50):
That there's not a few guys out there who can
modulate their stuff, who know how to pitch the third
time through the lineup, who still can be strong through
one hundred and fifteen, one hundred and twenty pitches, let's
saying you do that every start, but in certain scenarios.
But it's like there's this hard barrier, this hard stop
for everybody.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Now, that's what I don't get.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And I've talked to Edward Edward of Rodriguez, and he
has not had a complete game in his career and
he wants to finish games and he's asking Tory Leavella
to let him do that. He's gonna have to have
a lower pitch count than one fifteen to do that.
But the point from my point of view, Joe, is
that there are certain guys who can do it. I
think the vast majority can't. And I'm not saying we
(34:31):
you know, it was a better game back then. I'm
not saying that at all. I just think that there
are some guys out there who you can trust to
manage their stuff and take your team through the seventh
or eighth inning with one hundred and twenty pitches.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, that's that's I'm telling you.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I Again, everybody is on this has the same playbook,
and how is it working out for most of them? Again,
if five hundred becomes the objective this time of the year,
so that you know, at least to the trade deadline
so that we could consider ourselves.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Viable at least to make a wild car run. That's
a poor objective. I don't understand that objective.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
I mean, for me, like I've talked about, it's always
been about breaking out and you want to get too good.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Start that.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I want to get five above five hundred. Then I
want to be ten above five hundred. Fifteen twenty you
had to be at least while I was working at
least twenty games above five hundred. It seems to be
even considered to get invited to the dance twenty five over. Yeah,
you're in pretty good shape, but that's not even considered.
I mean, it's like that's such an considered an anomaly
(35:31):
right now where that was a part, Like the first
year I think we went with the Cubbies to the
playoffs fifteen, I think we had like ninety seven wins
and we were behind Pittsburgh and Saint Louis in our
division with the number of wins that we had. Why
is this considered such the right way to do things?
Of mediocrity is the result. I don't get that. I
don't get that, and what you are receiving, what's occurring
(35:54):
is exactly what the desire is, and that's to be
five hundred. Why don't you desire to be more than that?
And okay, how do I do that? Well, if everybody's
looking and doing the same thing and we're all getting
the same result, I mean, there's an extended definition of
insanity right there that could be applied to this, I think. So,
I just I don't get it. I don't get it
the Dodgers, of course, there's the anomaly teams, but then
(36:16):
you look at the Rays and the Brewers, and again
they have zagged when everybody else is zigging and it's
working for them.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It just makes no sense to me.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
That you want to attract five innings starting pitchers and
have to put together four innings on a nightly basis
out of your bullpen.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I think you're going to be successful.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
That's insane, not only from the fact that these guys
have to be perfect again, but then the wear and
tear of doing this often enough that these guys become
fatigued and they become less stand by the end of
the season.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Hey, good stuff, Joe, I got some news for you
as it relates to the National League MVP sho Hey
Otani is no longer the favorite.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
To win that award? Can you believe it? We'll explain
who it is and why right after this.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
I'm a book of Joe, Well, Joe, It's something that
hasn't happened in the last three years. Show Hey, Otani
is not the favorite at this point to win NL MVP.
(37:22):
That role now belongs to Pete crow Armstrong of the
Chicago Cubs, who has a higher war and if you
follow any of the betting sites, a better chance of
winning the MVP than show Hey. Now we mentioned show
Hayes resumed his throwing program. He's already made fourteen starts
and he'll be back on the mound before this year
(37:43):
is out, and probably a handful more starts left in
his season. So, by no means rule that guy out.
I tell people all the time, he's one of those freaks.
He keeps having our jaws drop. You know, don't put
anything past him. So, by no means am I saying
PCA is going to win this award. But for the
(38:04):
first time, really it's a race in the National League
between show Hey and PCA. I'm just blown away by
Pete crow Armstrong and his continued level of growth, especially
when it comes to plate discipline, hitting, left handed pitching,
and now the power. PCA is a slugger. If you
look at his hitting profile right now. For a guy
(38:25):
who I thought, you know, kind of looked like Corey
Patterson as a center fielder for the Cubs, he looks
like Kyle Schwarber now in terms of his pull side
in the air, the way he drives a baseball, the
authority in which he's hitting the baseball. He's a full
blown slugger right now, who also is stealing more than
twenty bags and playing what might be the best defensive
center field in all of baseball.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
That's what Show hayes up against this time. We've got
a race here in the MVP.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Joe, I got a couple of times. First of all,
does anybody tell show.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Hey that I think he knows it says.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
If he reads that, he could we could be in
for quite a rest of August September. If he knows that,
like you said, he probably does. He's heard that. So
heads up on Show. If that really sinks in with him,
which I think it will, just heads up, you might
see the best last six weeks of his season you've
ever seen number two. I really like Pete. I've gotten
(39:17):
to know him going to Chicago. I had a great
conversation with him last January at the Cup conventions, just
he and I ended up in backstage for a bit,
and god, I really liked him. He he's a baseball historian.
He loves the game, he knows what's happened before, he
knows his place, all these different things he's entertaining, He's humble,
(39:38):
is very It's just a really nice package of positive
components for him.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I like him. Would not be disappointed.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I mean, show hey and I go back, and I
don't really have never really worked with Pete, but I've
had great conversation that would be there's nothing wrong with that.
This guy would represent all of that very well. So
this is interesting and I definitely will follow this more closely.
But then that my other text with all this with Pete,
You're describing him, and I'm thinking of Steve Finley and
(40:09):
Brady Anderson, you know, and when he started popping, I.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Mean, really, it's like a lot like Finn. I don't
know what you know.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
I know, Finn has like one of the leads the
world in triples, some kind of record with triples, and
then Brady Anderson. I know he put together that one
fifty home run season, but you know, Bill Wise not
that big. I mean, although Brady got really strong that year.
But I think Steve Finley is a real good comp
for Pete just thinking about it, because Finn and I
got to be good friends when he was with the Angels.
(40:40):
We spoke all the time. I still when I see him,
it's a great conversation. Took us out to dinner one
time at a great restaurant on Long Island.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
That's my comp. I mean, I'm thinking, like, never Steve
Finley was.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Never really considered an MVP candidate, was he or did
he ever get close?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Do you know that?
Speaker 1 (40:56):
No, Steve Finley, by the time he was twenty eight,
had not hit more than eight home runs in a season, okay,
and he started banging thirty of him almost on an
annual basis, so a little I think the comp is
is dead on though. You're talking about you know, fast
twitch guys play center field, can run, who grow into
(41:17):
power in PCA's case, and he's grown into it very quickly.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Like the real angular, strong face lithe bodies. Yeah, I mean,
that's that's I'm sticking to that. I I that's as
you were describing him. I thought of Finn's He's like Finn,
maybe maturing earlier than maybe Finn did, but very similar
in his ability.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
While we've reached that point of the show Joe where
you take us home with some words of wisdom, what
do you got for us today to end this episode
of the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Well, I guess probably, like always everything kind of if
you weave it enough, it'll attach. But the thing that
I was thinking about today was just a summer in general,
the summer of twenty six. I had a lot of
responsibilities myself this year, with whether it was Cup Convention,
going to the cub Reunion and all the It's definitely
like these all these charity golf tournaments, dates on your calendar,
(42:08):
having to go here, go there. But it's something that
I always when I, you know, sometimes you just don't want.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You just don't want to have to move, get on
a plane, whatever, go. But I always would say afterwards,
we follow I checked that box, we follow through. So
I was looking that up today and Eddie Rickenbacker pretty famous, dude,
I can give you a six word formula for success.
Think things through, then follow through. And I would say
(42:33):
that all these successful people that we're talking about, whether
it's Show, whether it's Pete, whether Finn in the background,
Brady Anderson, all these different really talk about the Dodgers
infield while they're not successful right now, or whether they're
slumping of the Phillies. But among all these I think
there's a common thread among all really successful people. And
(42:54):
it was encapsulated in this quote that I got today.
There was others that I liked, but I like this
one because it was succinct. I can give you a
six word formula for success. Things through and then following through,
follow through, Because like when you go to like I'll
go somewhere, We're going to go somewhere, and other people
have said they're going to go, and then they don't go.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Just say I'm not going to go. Now.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Sometimes there's a legitimate reason, absolutely things pop up, no question,
but all of a suddenhen people just yeah, I don't
want to go. It's it's too inconvenient. That to me
is that's the wrong answer. So I love that, and
I think all these successful people we talked about today,
they will think things true and then they're going to
follow through.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah, I think you're talking about reliability.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
That is so important, right that, And you know some
people are super reliable, others not so much. And again
getting back to what we talked about the beginning, the Dodgers,
their reliability to me is what separates them, and they
take nothing for granted.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
They're very well repaired.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
I agree with you they're kind of going through a
little bit of the doldrums here. It happens in the
course of the season. We've seen it with the Yankees
every summer as well. But when it comes to coming
through and following through in the big moments. You know,
it's a cliche to say baseball players and teams are
battle tested, but they certainly are. They rise to moments
when they need to rise, you know, going back when
(44:13):
they were on the ropes against the Padres and the
Division Series a couple of years ago, last year a
Game seven. Of course, it's not like this is a
juggernaut that they're just steamrolling people through the postseason. But
they follow through in the big moments and that's why
they're still even though it hasn't been a great last
couple of weeks for them, the chalk in major League Baseball.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
That's put on me because that when you're as you're
saying all that reminds me of the quote that we
use today. That's what that's the that's the essence. That's
the importance of the everyday player. And I don't know
that people give that enough credit. Like I was thinking
about Garrett Anderson, Jay always answered the bell you do.
You could write that name in there. You know he's
(44:57):
going to go out there. You know what to expect,
blah blah blah, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The guys,
that's it, and it's really hard to do baseball. They
standing around a lot. It's such a mental grind, and
even standing around could be physical. So that really is
a great I think things through them fall through. That's
a really good description of the everyday player, the guy that,
(45:20):
for a variety of different reasons, realizes the importance that
I have signed on to do this. I want to
be out there. I need to be out there. This
has bothered me today, but I'm going to play somehow.
And you know what, that little bump, bruise, whatever kind
of goes away via adrenaline during the course of the game,
and the player that shows up that checks that box
is a difference maker. So talking about your dud the Dodgers,
(45:43):
how many of those does are difference makers just by
being in that lineup, just when the opposition has to
see Betts, Freeman, Talker O, Tawny Smith, all these guys
that they have over there, Hernanez. That matters even if
you're not playing well and if your batting average is
not what it needs to be. The combination of those
(46:04):
names and showing up puts pressure on the other side.
And the game is such an ebb and flow kind
of a situation. You just never know when you're gonna
catch fire. Where are that seminal moment's going to occur
that all of a sudden, the whole world changes. So
don't underestimate the everyday player and the impact that he has.
And then when you have a group of names that
when they're when they're listed together, the impact it has
(46:27):
on that group being successful or the intimidation it has
on the other side.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
I got one more name for you in that van.
What do you got, Matt Olsen Grave. You know, I
think we spend so much time looking at rate stats
that if you talk to people like you, managers around
the game, the reliable player who's in that lineup and
producing on a reliable basis is so valuable.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
And Matt Olson, to me, is the epitome of that.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
He got dude, never misses a game and is still
very productive. And Freddie Freeman is along those same lines
of course as well. I think that tends to be
overrated by some of the MVP voters or just analysts
in the game. But when you talk to managers, knowing
you can count on that player that no matter what
he might be feeling that day, he's not even gonna
(47:17):
tell you that something's barking. You just counted him to
be in the lineup and you want him up there
with a runner on second base.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Different animal.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Those are different animals, And that's why the Yankees can
win so many World Series. That's why they can be
that good on an annual basis. They didn't have just
one of those guys. That's several of those guys on
an annual basis. And you know when a team maybe
wins and all of a sudden falls off the next year,
they don't have Michael Jordan, they don't have a Larry Bird.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
They don't have a Derek Jeter within the group. That's
you need the freak.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Yeah, you need the freak to be within that group
to be annually consistent. And then when you have several
of them on the same team that that really, you know,
speaks to success, bleeds for success.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
That's all.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
That's all a necessary ingredient to be great on an
annual basis and not just for one season.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
Think it through and follow through.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's it, baby.
Speaker 4 (48:13):
Good words of advice, Joe, great.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Job, See you buddy, Thank you man.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
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Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.