September 18, 2024 • 37 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental wealth podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. The world lost an absolute GIANT this past week. Greg Harden touched thousands of lives including, Tom Brady, Heisman Trophy winner and Super Bowl MVP Desmond Howard, and 23-time Olympic gold medalist Michael Phelps. Brady, Howard, Phelps, and other athletes credit Harden with inspiring them to overcome obstacles and achieve success in their professional and personal lives. Here is Jay’s sit down chat with Greg from last September in its entirety.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental wealth podcast
Build you from the inside out. Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental wealth podcast with Jay Glazer.
I am Jay Glazer, and we have an incredible guest
today that I cannot wait to learn from and to
have you all learn from it as well. He has
coached some of the most well known and most decorated
athletes of our time. Look, we talk mental health a lot,
and that doesn't always mean issues mental health could lead
(00:36):
to mental wealth.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
It's what you do with what goes on between your ears.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
And I always talk about you know, we have physical
coaches all the time that we all lean into, but
we need coaches for our mental health.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
As well, and there's just not too many of them
out there.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This man, though he is coached Tom Brady's, Michael Phelps,
Desmond Hours, Charles Woodson, the best of the best of
the best, and Greg Harden just came out with a
new book, Stay Sane in an Insane World.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
If as anybody who understands that it is me Greg.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I was talking about the roommates in my head, trying
to get them to play along nicely together how you
doing that?
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Oh man, life is great, and I'm just thrilled and
humbled to have an opportunity to chat with you.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Jay. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Mat So he's right there and I just want to
go back and forth in each other because we have
a lot of mutual friends working.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
But you said life was great. Did you always think
like that you ready for this? Yep, I'm too dumb
to be depressed.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I mean, I got tired of being so smart that
I was overthinking and overworking and anxious all the time.
So I decided that I really just need to simplify
things and keep it as simple as possible. And I've
been able to figure out what's working and what's not working,
and was not working I attack relentlessly.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
One of the things I loved in your book.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And we'll go back because I want people to know
your story also, But just something that really stood out
for me.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I've trained a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
In mixed martial arts, and it wasn't until a couple
of years ago Randy Couture, who's you know, my partner
doing a lot of their stuff, Who's one of the
baddest dudes on the planet.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I was getting upset with one of more fighters, Becau's.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Just over and over and over it, Like, man, how
how can I I'm explaining this?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I thought in such simple terms, and Randy pulled me aside.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And Randy's coach, he's won seven six world titles himself
and coached several other world champions, and he says, Hey,
don't tell them what you don't want, just tell them
what you do want.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And I saw that in.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Your book really like that stood out for me. One
of the first things that I read. Go a little
bit more into that about getting you know the most
out of people in the right way.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Well, it's crucial that you give people an opportunity to
tell you who they are. And if you don't ask
questions and you're in there just running your mouth telling
them what they should think and what they should do
and how they should feel, you're stupid. You've got to
find out what's important to the person you're talking to. You,
what is their dream, what is their idea, what is
their definition of success, and help them shape it in
(03:04):
such a way that they include mental fitness. See we
talk about mental health a lot, and folks, when I
first started doing this thirty forty years ago, mental health
was it.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Was hard to talk about. So I started talking about.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Mental fitness and training for it and helping them understand
that all of us are vulnerable. But if we are
serious about being a total person, there are three levels
of fitness, physical, mental, and spiritual. Now I'm not going
to define spiritual for you, but I will certainly define
(03:38):
mental for you. If there was anyone that would understand this,
Jsu and your gang and your team. You ready, if
we ask somebody from another planet to h help help
us understand physical fitness, they do.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I But if you.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Had to explain it to somebody, you'd be talking about
their strength, their endurance, their stamina, their cardiovascular And until
you say the word recovery, you don't understand fitness. And
ask people, well, then what is mental fitness? Well, they'll
go on and on and on and until they understand.
We're talking about shortening, telescoping how fast you recover.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
All of us.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Will experience trials and tribulations, all of us will be broken, hearder,
grief laws, all of these things attack us. But how
fast do you recover? Because you have to come back?
And so what we want to do is shorten Jay's
recovery time because he get you. No anxiety is going
to tack you know, depression, that's going to be talking about.
I've been waiting for your food. I got your you're tired, good,
(04:42):
come here. Your recovery time, though, is what you've shortened, Jay,
That's what you've been doing. And that's what we train
people to do. The understand the greatest and you've alluded
to it, and we've never talked, but you said it
so clearly, the greatest competition in your life. It's between
your ears. There's no greater challenge.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So you're not just talking physical recovery. And by the way,
I love it you said that, you know, argument unbreakable.
We recover you as far as we train you. I
was one of those meat headlifters and fighters who trained
four times a day and more and more more, and then,
you know, as a coach a long time ago saying, man,
if you're healthier than that guy across from you, you'll win.
But it took me, you know, obviously, a while and
to figure that out. You're not just talking the physical
(05:25):
recovery part. You're talking how do I get these guys
to mentally recover?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Bruh.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
So the everyone that came in my office was.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Not struggling with addiction or depression.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
They were trying to figure out how to be the
best possible performer they could be. So I have to
convince them that if you're training physically, you have to
train mentally, and you can't come in here like once
every six months and say I feel great. You've got
to come in and get like every chance you get.
(05:57):
You've got to be reinforced to reinvent yourself because everyone's
got baggage and letting go of yesterday's baggage or make you.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
A better athlete.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Becoming a more leading with care, compassion, and concern will
make you a better athlete. Learning to ask for help
will make you a better athlete. So we're trying to
convince somebody if they are a better person, they'll be
a better athlete. I'm going to go there, Jay, you're ready, No,
I'm gonna tell you the secret that ain't a secret.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Self love and self acceptance.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Look, all of us want four a's. We need attention,
we need affection, we need approval, and we need acceptance.
Oftentimes we settle for attention and approval, but you know,
deep down in your heart. What you want is to
be loved and to be accepted. But until you put
(06:48):
the word self in front of it, something that's missing.
Self love and self acceptance must become a mission and
obsession or you to have the breakthrough that helps you
recover even faster from those moments of despair.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Like I alluded to earlier, You've worked with Tom Brady,
Michael Philips, Charles Woodson, you know, Doesn't Howard at University
of Michigan, and I know you work with other sports
teams a lot of other people as well. But how
did your.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Journey get you there in the first place that they
started leaning into you to help them strengthen and recover
those six inches between their ears?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And what's behind the root catch.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I was invited to work with the football team at
the University of Michigan, and I infield trated a system
that was about getting the best out of people. Now,
I was invited because I was supposedly an expert on
alcohol and drugs. They asked me to come in and
give a speech. So I said, you want me to
come into a twenty minute raw rah forty minute we
(07:49):
love you, just say no to eighteen to twenty two
years old. That is the dumbest idea in the world.
I said, I say, so, let me give you the
names of some folks that might do it. And say,
but this is Michigan. I said, yeah, I went to Michigan.
There's Michigan football. Yeah, I love Michigan football. That's nice,
but that doesn't work. They know more about alcohol and
drugs than we do. And standing up in front of
the group and then you get to check a box
(08:11):
and say we did a lecture. Now I can't have
my name associated.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
With that show.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
The head coach at the time was a gentleman named
shim Becker. Shim Becker wanted to who is this fool?
Let me meet him? So I came in and suggested
to him that if he was serious, the lecture would
be this part of the program, and the whole program
would include something that didn't exist yet, integrated behavioral healthcare.
(08:40):
That's what you know about behavioral healthcare, but it didn't
have that name at the time. So I'm saying, if
I come in and talk to your team, I need
to know who the physician is. I need to know
who the sport administrator is. I need to know who
the treatment facility is going to be I need to
know how we're going to capture. If a guy raised
his hands say, oh my god, job, I just had
(09:01):
to confess I'm struggling mightily.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
What would happen to him?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
And if you can't tell me what happened to that kid,
if you're talking about you kicking him out, I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Want any parts of it. And that's how it got started.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
The next thing, you know, several years goes by and
a new athletic director comes in and says, we're not
using you effectively? Are we? I said it was a
matter of facturers not. He said, well, what would.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You do different?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I say, instead of being focused on pathology and someone
getting in trouble, we need to set it up so
a young person could talk to somebody other than a
coach about daily living problems. Because the biggest problem you
have athletes in college is they keep turning out to
be human beings. Don't tell anybody, but they're going through
(09:48):
the same crap the rest of those students are going through. Pluse.
They have a full two full time jobs being a
student and being a first class, top tier peak performing athlete.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
But who they are yet? Yes, don't get me started.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
You're three hundred pounds six foet inches tall. It looked
like a grown ass man in your kid, an adolescent
struggling to find out who you are, where you fit.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Then our needs.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So if we can give them a vehicle by which
they could just talk to somebody, continuum up there. You
can come in and talk to me about you dating
a food, or you can come in and talk about
this depression is killing me.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
That's a wide range.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Jay, my mom and daddy crazy. I think I'm gonna
kill myself tonight.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
That's a wide range.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I had a kid, This is a true story. I
had a kid who was the top tier lineman. He
was that guy, all big ten, all American, all boom
boom boom. And it's the night of the biggest game
of his life. And he says, look, been trying not
to bother you about this, but a girl I'm dating,
I mean we broke up and she's on drugs and
(11:08):
she's suicidal and she's sitting outside of my house every
night with a gun. Yeah, we got a twenty year
old kid who's trying to decide what he won't he
won't tell anybody. That's what she's doing and he doesn't
want to get her in trouble. Well, she's threatening herself,
she's threatening him, she's threatening the community.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Brah.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
So historically that's not what he've been sent in for.
Does he have a cocaine problem. No, his girlfriend has
a cocaine problem and she's crossing the line. So having
built into a system an opportunity for young people to say,
I just need to just chat, I just need to vent.
(11:53):
Tom Brady didn't come in to see me because he
was in trouble. He came in because he was confused.
That's when how it was coming in and talking about
say man, I've seen what you've done, tell me what
to do? What there's a nineteen jay Judsmin Howard studied
me for a year before he talked to me. Wow Wow.
Judsemin Howard studied me and says, look, I'm watching you
(12:17):
and like, I see what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
What you're doing.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
You're standing in front of us and you I mean,
they tell you that we have a short attention span.
They tell you that you can only talk to us
for ten minutes. You keep us for forty five minutes
straight and nobody is saying anything except responding to what
you want?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
How do you do that?
Speaker 4 (12:38):
You sometimes look like a preacher, sometimes you look like
a comedian. Then you seem like a bloody professor.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Is that on purpose?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Sir? What did you say? How are you nineteen years old?
Jay saying? I want to do that. I want to
do that. I want to command the audience. I want
to be that guy. In addition to that, I want
to be the best on the team.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So when you talk about Brady, I always say, with
Tom Man, you want to find out, you want to
be the best. Find out with the best doesn't do
more than them, And that's the secret is success?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Just how many people really want to put that work
in now? As many people want to put that work
in like Tom does. But give me what you think
makes the different than everybody else, and then be some
of the things.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
You did to help talk get to this level?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
What makes Tom Brady and a handful of other people
that you've alluded to different. They were hungry, that's predictable, right,
But they were.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Humble, hungry and humble.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Come on, Jay, I mean hungry and a bear coming
out of hibernation, but humble enough to say, school me,
coach me, they were Coachabo right, coachable, Jay, that's who
you love. The guy your Jim Coachabo, that's my guy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, who don't take offense to it?
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Absolutely, come on, no, give it to me, Give it
to me straight. They wanted it straight, No chaser, you
understand that's what they wanted. What happened with Tom was
is legendary and you'll hear me trailers and shows making
it very clear. It's nothing I can teach Tom Brady
(14:13):
about football. There's nothing I can tell Austin Matthews about hockey.
There's nothing I can tell Jay j about being all
the things. But if what I can tell Tom Brady
anyone that will listened to me, is to practice training,
rehearse giving one hundred per one hundred percent of the
(14:35):
time at everything you do, not just at MMA, not
just at lifting weights. But if you can give one
hundred percent of the stuff you don't even like, what happens.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
To you when you get to the stuff you love.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
You've got a habit of pushing yourself. Now you look
at Brady and you say, now this is wind lose
a draw. He said, oh, what does that mean? I said,
Brady is the guy that will say, yeah, you said
one hundred percent, one hundred percent of the.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Time, win, lose or draw.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I see that means that, brother, if I fight Jay
Glazer and he beats my behind and he said, damn,
I don't ever want to fight that guy. You've done
all you can do. All I'm asking you is to
do all you can do every time. And so if
we're real honest, you can't give one hundred hundred percent
(15:32):
of the time. But if it's your default mode, if
it's where you are always trying to go, if it
is in the back of your mind, if it's your
mindset is where, if it's how you roll my worst day,
it will be better than the average man's best day.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Bam. Love that man, Love that, absolutely love that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You know, these guys are not the most trusting people
who row How did he get their trust?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
You get Tom Brady trust Michael Trump's trust.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Tom Brady watched what Desmond Howard and I did, and
Desmond Howard, Desmond Howard created this secret weapon guy right
in Sports Illustrated nineteen Lotty Dottie Show. Tom watched what
Dusmond and I did and he talked to Desmond, and
Desmond said this is the guy. So he says, I
just want to chat with you because you know, I
(16:23):
know Desmond was getting ready to leave and you talk
to him. And right now I'm struggling mightily. This is
I don't know if I should stay here. Tom says,
you know, gee, I want to be the starting quarterback
at Michigan. So I'm coming to see you. And I
have to say, Tom, Tommy, I can't help you be
(16:44):
starting quarterback at Michigan, but I can help you believe
if no one else believes in your ass and who
you are and who you're going to become.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
He said, let's start right there.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
He said, let's go, Rob All, I can help you.
I don't well, the coaches don't belie.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I don't care what your coaches think. What do you think?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
How do you see yourself if they If you don't
believe in yourself, why should anybody else? He said, Oh,
this guy was so coachable, so humble, so hungry. He
would just take notes. Here's the piece You've got to decide,
Tom Brady. You've got to decide, Desmond Howard, that with
(17:24):
or without football, your life is going.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
To be amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Once you decide that, your life is going.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
To be amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Whether this crap works or not, we just increased the chances.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
That are the work. So everywhere is what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Tom Brady looks at you and you know me, I say.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
What did I just say?
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Tom?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
He said, well, you said that.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Basically, I'm more than a football player. That's all I said. Tom,
you must not define yourself as a football player. You
a man and what kind of man do you want
to be? How do you want to operate as a
human being? You got to decide you want to go
to the NFL.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
You need to screw the NFL.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
What does the NFL stand for long? Not for long?
So until you understand that football is a vehicle, a
vehicle for you to get what you want for you
for self expression. If you don't use it and play
with it and turn it intoto an adventure, you're gonna
be confused because if it's not working, you're gonna be
(18:28):
all said because football doesn't work. I need you to
be so obsessed and we're trying to figure out who
you are and who you want to become, that football
just falls in place.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Does that fall under you know?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I saw in your book. I saw it stood out
to me, your control the controllables.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yes, sir, Yes, sir, jay, I can't control what your
coaches thinking. I can't control what your coaches are gonna do.
You can't control how old is your coach Tommy h
forty five, fifty years old. What's the likelihood of your
coach change zero?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Okay? So what can you change my attitude?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
How I'm approaching it, how I'm responding to it, how
you control your response, control your reactions. That's what you
can control. You can't control them. That's what it means.
You teach people to go to the space where they
have control over something You can barely control yourself, But
you better fight for that.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
You better focus, like a laser.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Being on controlling how you respond and how you react.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
And now I'll get it to Michael Phelps.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Is Michael Phelps my dude, and I just want to
let you know Michael Phelps and I have both come
out and talk about our mental health issues, our depression, anxiety,
and it's been one of the.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Best things I think that ever could happen to either
one of us. Is he and I.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I had them on this podcast and we were so wrong,
vulnerable here and I've known each other because we did
subway commercials together about fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Set along those lines, and we lost touch when we.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Started talking about our mental health issues. Suddenly we had
a battle.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Buddy.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He reaches out to me. I reached out to him
when I'm struggling. Reached out to him when he's struggling.
He reaches out to me. We have this team, but
also we reach out to each other when we're not struggling,
so we always know. So he's very special to me
as well.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I know he is.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
When I hit him, when I told him I'm you know,
I'm having you.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
On, he said, that's my dude, that's my guy. He's
the best. So he went crazy. So I know why
he's so special. Tell me how you guys linked up.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
And what you did with him, Jay, Just segue back
to what fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
You were a totally different person.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Yes, I created a character at that everybody I thought
everybody immercial.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I was just trying to have fun to hide my pain.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
You are gifted and talented you doing I was the
sport administrator for swimming and diving and water polo, right,
and so we had to hire a new head coach
for the men's swim team. So this guy, Bob Bowman
resume shows up and I'm fascinated by this person. Now
(21:05):
I'm not thinking clearly at the time.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Michael Phelps.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I'm not even thinking that as the resume is not
saying Michael Phelps, and I'm looking at Bowman's profile, I'm saying, God,
I like this guy. We got an interview and he
comes in the interviews, I say, Hey, this is the
guy I want to hire. The rest of y'all make
your decision, but this is the guy I want to hire.
We hire Bob Bowman. Who shows up with Bob Bowman
(21:29):
Michael Phelps show Now, Michael Phelps is the volunteer assistant
coach for a college swim team and in the pool
with our guys, kicking a bus and training them. So
Bob Bowman turns out to be the most coachable coach, oxymoron,
(21:50):
the most coachable coach I've ever worked with.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Wow, that's a heck of a statement there, Broh.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I'll say it to anyone, and I've had some great coaches.
This is some great experiences with Bob Bowman said, tell
me what works what doesn't work, because it was a
different age group and population that he had never worked
with before. So he said, you know you're my administrator.
I'll listen to you. So your goes by, and he says,
you know, me and Michae are going through some challenges.
(22:21):
I mean we're talking to Michael is now eighteen nineteen
years old, and you know he hasn't had a childhood.
He was identified at twelve years old to be to
be an Olympian. By fifteen, he's in the Olympics. By
eighteen nineteen, he's back in the Olympics, kicking ass and
(22:42):
taking names. But rebellion has to take place, so he
begins to act out and like, Bob is so confused.
He's never been like this. He's always been perfect, and
yet why is this going on? And he can't understand
that he's surrogate Daddy. Who else you going rebel against Bob?
Bob's Mike Guy. I'm coaching Bob, And he said, do
(23:04):
you think he could talk to Michael. I said, a
hold on, player, Mike ain't gonna come talk to me.
He said, yeah, but but I said, I tell you
what you tell Mike that I'm fascinated with him and
want to meet him and then tell him who I've
worked with and he said, okay, Mike comes in and
uh and we're kicking it. Jay Glazer, listen carefully. I
(23:26):
treated Michael Phelps like he was a person, like he
was just another cat off the block. Stars fool, I say,
stars all the time. Come on, sit down. Let's talk
about who you are, where you're going, and how you're
gonna get this, and what are you gonna do besides
gold medals? And when are you gonna give one hundred
per cent again? Because you're not?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
And he looking at me like what I said? He
so we just would kick it. We would just kick it.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
We wouldn't talk about anything except his life, and he did.
Who gets to do that? He doesn't get to do that.
I don't care that you're all this and that you
know what's working what's not working in your life. And
that door opens up. It opens up a door to
talk about life and the pursuit of happiness. So what
(24:12):
would make you happy? Other than I said, what if
you got rich and famous?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
For real?
Speaker 4 (24:17):
What would you do with power and influence?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
JG.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
That's what I talked about to my guys. So what
happens if this turns into everything.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
You dreamed of.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Now, what are you gonna do when you're gonna let
go of daddy issues, when you're gonna go yesterday's baggage?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I said, bro, I can make you'll be a better
a better Olympian.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
If you let go of some of this crap you
dragging around everywhere you go. So I wasn't this therapist,
but I convinced him that he might need to tell this.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
So we've had a great relationship since he was a
teenager in ann Arbor trying to find himself and that's
what he was trying to do, and I was fortunate
enough to be there and he allowed me to talk
to him like he was a regular guy. I think
people like this, you know, they definitely need somebody like you,
because for me, I wasn't able to feel love from.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
The inside out because of depression anxiety. So I didn't
understand what that was.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
But as a result of that, it forced me to
go seek out and do I thought such great things
to get some love from the outside in. And I
hope they meet in the middle. But the biggest shock
to my system was quote unquote made it. I wasn't
happy my wallet was not an antidepression. Holy crowd, you
gotta be kidding me. Like bows and unicorns, like that
(25:42):
outside stuff wantn't to make me happy for the inside out?
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Where do we find out? From Jay, listen to what
you just said.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Remember I talked about the four a's, the need for attention, affection, approval,
and acceptance. I've made a fool of myself, but I've
all also risen to the highest levels possible pursuing attention, affection, approval,
and acceptance.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
That's what you did.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
That quest for the four a's leads you down this path,
which ends up being an amazing path. It doesn't cure you,
it doesn't finish you, but it sets you up to
be on a mission. Your mission comes from your challenges.
Your pain has created a monster on.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Mental health stats. No doubt, scars make me who I am,
no doubt. I don't talk about my successes, talk about
my scars. I've bragg to myself about my scars, not
my success.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And I think you know that's a big thing with
you teach people, is that, look, we're not all going
to have the success that we want. We all got scars.
If you lean in on those scars. Those could be
your superpowers.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
And so being able to help people have a clue,
and they get tired of clues.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Tell me what to do. Sometimes they say, you.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Need to obsess over self and self acceptance. You're obsessed
with everybody else's love. You're obsessing over about everybody else's acceptance.
When at some point will you deliberately and intentionally decide
I'm gonna love me, I'm gonna love me so much?
(27:18):
How I can afford to love you? Because where we
go is like how I feel about me flaws and
all flaws and all until flaws and alls is included,
that's not love and love and love till you give
it away. But the love I'm giving away is simply counterfeit. Ah, well,
(27:39):
how do I get there? Because I want to be
a loving, caring, compassionate, concerned individual, And in order to
give the love that I want to give, it has
to come from my heart. It has to be something
I can see in me. It doesn't mean it's perfect,
It will never be perfect. And the pursuit of perfection
(28:00):
and it's a fool's game. But pursuing perfection is fun.
But if you try to be perfect, you'll kill yourself,
You'll never be happy.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
We talk about the approval part.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It wasn't until this past year that I learned how
important it is for me to build up my self approval,
not approval from everybody else, but man, I'm fifty three.
I didn't learn how to start doing that till recently.
I wish I met you freaking twenty five years ago.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Bruh, Jay, I'm like fans in my mid of the
late thirties, and I'm giving all these speeches and the
lectures and talking about four a's and like I was.
For some reason, it hit me, My god, I'm almost
forty years old and I'm still seeking my father's approval.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
What am I doing?
Speaker 4 (28:46):
And so I decided that my father loved me, he
just didn't know how to show it. I decided my
father believed in me, but he didn't. His fault. He
didn't even know who his father was. No one modeled
for him how to be a daddy. And instead of
me just pissing and moaning about what he didn't do,
I had to start looking at what did he do
(29:09):
and what did he do right? And what he did wrong.
I have articulated it. I've chronicled, I've documented it, But
when am I going to allow him to be a
human being instead of Daddy, who I wounded? So I
decided my father loved me and that he thought highly
of me, and I said, I'm done with that, I
(29:30):
swear to God. Two weeks later, the phone rings. Hey,
this is your pops. Hey Dad, how you doing? He said,
I'm all right. You know what's going on? I said,
I'm surprised. Why are you calling me? He said, well,
I needed your advice. Who's this?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Really, can I speak to my father? He said, no,
you're You're funny, And I figured you know more about
this than I do. Who is this brouh? I'm flipping
out because he's never talk like this. But whatever, God
you believe in sent me a message that food. You
did the right thing for giving your father for not
(30:08):
being perfect and letting go of yesterday's baggage. My father
called and told me he loved me and it and
admired and respected me. I was, I mean on All
I did was decide two weeks ago to stop holding
him hostage to what he didn't do.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Open up your universe, right, Lord, you start attracting something
that you never thought you'd yet.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
That's beautiful, that's amazing, that's the truth. Hard for a
lot of us. Yeah, bruh. But let's think.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
About how it applies. Who thinks of MVP, who sits
something and thinks about what am I going to do next?
It comes up with stuff that's gonna save lives. Okay,
my next mission is to save more lives. Jay. That's
what you did. And so everybody run around trying to
how great you are you you can't hear that, but
(30:59):
what you can here, it's what you have done is
concrete and measurable. You've changed lives, You've saved lives, and
you did it on purpose.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
I do thank you so much. I wouldn't been able
to accept that years ago. I can now. Is that
right being of services that keeps being the blue.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
It's beautiful and I never dreamed you'd be doing this
never I didn't have those scores, I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Do it, Brod.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
If it didn't have the scars, you wouldn't be able
to look at the cat who you've shoes you've never
been in and say I can relate, And they say
I think you can. They know you can't, because Brod,
this this ain't about us. This book is not about me.
There's stories in this book, short to the point knocking
(31:47):
on your butt, stories that you will love and somebody
you don't have to read it all that you can
just open that bad boy up and a story will
pop you in your eyes.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
But there's short stories to tell people the history of
folks who are like them everybody I talk about. This
is not about athletics. This is not about stars. It's
about people struggling to find out who they are and
how to become the world's greatest expert on one subject themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Beautiful, give me before I let you go, two more questions, Yes, sir,
give me another message in this book that you want
to make sure the world can hear that I haven't
brought up.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
The most important piece is that no one can make
you feel inferior without your permission. Eleanor Roosevelt. Eleanor Roosevelt.
No one can make you feel inferior without your permission. Okay,
let me tell you what Greg rode. Your self worth
and self esteem must not be based on performance or
(32:51):
external factors. How I feel about me and got jack
to do with?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
How much money you're gonna pay me and got jacked?
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Do? How many touchdowns are?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Right?
Speaker 4 (33:01):
How I feel about me has to go beyond what
you think of me.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
What I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
I'm gonna fight for it, and you gotta be willing
to fight for it and not just hope and wish.
Is this is your podcast X rated?
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Oh, you can say whatever the fuck you want. Are
you ready for this? Jay?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Don't judge me. All right, You're in my office and
you're talking about I wish. I'm so tired of being
this way. And I would say to you, Jay, we've
been together now for like several months, maybe a couple
of years. So I want you to do an experiment.
I want you tonight. I want you to go home.
I want you to take your left hand. I want you
(33:47):
to to wish in it. I want you to take
your right hand, Jay, and I want you to shit
in it, and then come back and tell me which
one got field first. I got issues, I know, I
know I'll do it well. Wish in one hand and
should in the other, and tell me which gets filled first.
Wishing is not enough.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
You gotta fight for your sanity.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
You gotta do whatever it takes to stay sane in
this crazy world. They can't have me, they can't have you.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Jay love that, man, I love that, and we do.
We let all the external voices shape us, and they
become the truth. When they don't have to be the truth,
we can decide what that truth is.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
The voices in your here be lying you're all fucked up. Yeah,
and I am worthy.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Fuck you, I'm fucking up, but I'm good with my
fucked upness.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Now. I'm worthy of being fucked up.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Predictable, predictable, therefore manageable.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
So my last question, he is I asked every one
of my guests, give me your unbreakable moment for me.
Unbreakable is man a thing that was supposed to break
you but then't and you came to the other side
of that and as a result of that and you're
stronger forever.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
There are quite a few, but let me tell you
this one, this one piece. I think I was in
about twenty three years old, and I was living a
lifestyle that was definitely predictable in terms of what could happen.
You're going to be locked up, you're going to be dead,
you're going to be hospitalized somehow. It ain't gonna end
(35:25):
right the way you're going. And I looked, and I prayed,
and I pondered, and I said to God, if I
lived to see twenty five, if I lived to see
twenty five, there must be some purpose for my life.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Jah.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
I hit twenty five, and oops, I hadn't made a promise.
And at twenty five, I said, at twenty five, I've
been on this, I've been on a planet for a
quarter of a century. I should at least have a
clue who I am and where I'm trying to go.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
And so my first purpose was pursuit of purpose. Man.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
I love that, dude. I have love connecting with you.
I've known about you for a long time. You weren't
such a secret weapon of me. I knew about you
for a long time. I'm really glad we got a
chance to connect. Young's book Stay Sane in an insane world,
how to control the controllables and thrive. And I love
that too, because you're not just surviving, you're thriving there.
It is, man, I really appreciate it. Congratulate you on
(36:24):
that as well. That that's huge, you know. And one
thing when I, you know, wrote this book, is how
many people you end up helping and power and saving.
You don't know what is watching somewhere else, and it's
it's I just want you to be able to love
yourself up for that, because you're probably helping somebody right
now that you have no idea about.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Man.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
So make it real clear. I don't buy books. I'm
getting ready to buy your book, but I hope people
will appreciate that her picking mine up.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
But Brad, thank you.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
I am so humble and pleased to have this opportunity
to chat with you and get a.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Clue about who you are for real
Speaker 2 (37:03):
My dude, I appreciate you so much, getting Greg Harden everybody,
thank you so much, my dude,
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental wealth podcast
Build you from the inside out. Now here's Jay Glacier.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental wealth podcast with Jay Glazer.
I am Jay Glazer, and we have an incredible guest
today that I cannot wait to learn from and to
have you all learn from it as well. He has
coached some of the most well known and most decorated
athletes of our time. Look, we talk mental health a lot,
and that doesn't always mean issues mental health could lead
(00:36):
to mental wealth.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
It's what you do with what goes on between your ears.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
And I always talk about you know, we have physical
coaches all the time that we all lean into, but
we need coaches for our mental health.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
As well, and there's just not too many of them
out there.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This man, though he is coached Tom Brady's, Michael Phelps,
Desmond Hours, Charles Woodson, the best of the best of
the best, and Greg Harden just came out with a
new book, Stay Sane in an Insane World.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
If as anybody who understands that it is me Greg.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I was talking about the roommates in my head, trying
to get them to play along nicely together how you
doing that?
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Oh man, life is great, and I'm just thrilled and
humbled to have an opportunity to chat with you.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Jay. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Mat So he's right there and I just want to
go back and forth in each other because we have
a lot of mutual friends working.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
But you said life was great. Did you always think
like that you ready for this? Yep, I'm too dumb
to be depressed.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I mean, I got tired of being so smart that
I was overthinking and overworking and anxious all the time.
So I decided that I really just need to simplify
things and keep it as simple as possible. And I've
been able to figure out what's working and what's not working,
and was not working I attack relentlessly.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
One of the things I loved in your book.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And we'll go back because I want people to know
your story also, But just something that really stood out
for me.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I've trained a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
In mixed martial arts, and it wasn't until a couple
of years ago Randy Couture, who's you know, my partner
doing a lot of their stuff, Who's one of the
baddest dudes on the planet.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I was getting upset with one of more fighters, Becau's.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Just over and over and over it, Like, man, how
how can I I'm explaining this?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I thought in such simple terms, and Randy pulled me aside.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And Randy's coach, he's won seven six world titles himself
and coached several other world champions, and he says, Hey,
don't tell them what you don't want, just tell them
what you do want.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And I saw that in.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Your book really like that stood out for me. One
of the first things that I read. Go a little
bit more into that about getting you know the most
out of people in the right way.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Well, it's crucial that you give people an opportunity to
tell you who they are. And if you don't ask
questions and you're in there just running your mouth telling
them what they should think and what they should do
and how they should feel, you're stupid. You've got to
find out what's important to the person you're talking to. You,
what is their dream, what is their idea, what is
their definition of success, and help them shape it in
(03:04):
such a way that they include mental fitness. See we
talk about mental health a lot, and folks, when I
first started doing this thirty forty years ago, mental health
was it.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Was hard to talk about. So I started talking about.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Mental fitness and training for it and helping them understand
that all of us are vulnerable. But if we are
serious about being a total person, there are three levels
of fitness, physical, mental, and spiritual. Now I'm not going
to define spiritual for you, but I will certainly define
(03:38):
mental for you. If there was anyone that would understand this,
Jsu and your gang and your team. You ready, if
we ask somebody from another planet to h help help
us understand physical fitness, they do.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I But if you.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Had to explain it to somebody, you'd be talking about
their strength, their endurance, their stamina, their cardiovascular And until
you say the word recovery, you don't understand fitness. And
ask people, well, then what is mental fitness? Well, they'll
go on and on and on and until they understand.
We're talking about shortening, telescoping how fast you recover.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
All of us.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Will experience trials and tribulations, all of us will be broken, hearder,
grief laws, all of these things attack us. But how
fast do you recover? Because you have to come back?
And so what we want to do is shorten Jay's
recovery time because he get you. No anxiety is going
to tack you know, depression, that's going to be talking about.
I've been waiting for your food. I got your you're tired, good,
(04:42):
come here. Your recovery time, though, is what you've shortened, Jay,
That's what you've been doing. And that's what we train
people to do. The understand the greatest and you've alluded
to it, and we've never talked, but you said it
so clearly, the greatest competition in your life. It's between
your ears. There's no greater challenge.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So you're not just talking physical recovery. And by the way,
I love it you said that, you know, argument unbreakable.
We recover you as far as we train you. I
was one of those meat headlifters and fighters who trained
four times a day and more and more more, and then,
you know, as a coach a long time ago saying, man,
if you're healthier than that guy across from you, you'll win.
But it took me, you know, obviously, a while and
to figure that out. You're not just talking the physical
(05:25):
recovery part. You're talking how do I get these guys
to mentally recover?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Bruh.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
So the everyone that came in my office was.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Not struggling with addiction or depression.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
They were trying to figure out how to be the
best possible performer they could be. So I have to
convince them that if you're training physically, you have to
train mentally, and you can't come in here like once
every six months and say I feel great. You've got
to come in and get like every chance you get.
(05:57):
You've got to be reinforced to reinvent yourself because everyone's
got baggage and letting go of yesterday's baggage or make you.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
A better athlete.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Becoming a more leading with care, compassion, and concern will
make you a better athlete. Learning to ask for help
will make you a better athlete. So we're trying to
convince somebody if they are a better person, they'll be
a better athlete. I'm going to go there, Jay, you're ready, No,
I'm gonna tell you the secret that ain't a secret.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Self love and self acceptance.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Look, all of us want four a's. We need attention,
we need affection, we need approval, and we need acceptance.
Oftentimes we settle for attention and approval, but you know,
deep down in your heart. What you want is to
be loved and to be accepted. But until you put
(06:48):
the word self in front of it, something that's missing.
Self love and self acceptance must become a mission and
obsession or you to have the breakthrough that helps you
recover even faster from those moments of despair.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Like I alluded to earlier, You've worked with Tom Brady,
Michael Philips, Charles Woodson, you know, Doesn't Howard at University
of Michigan, and I know you work with other sports
teams a lot of other people as well. But how
did your.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Journey get you there in the first place that they
started leaning into you to help them strengthen and recover
those six inches between their ears?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And what's behind the root catch.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I was invited to work with the football team at
the University of Michigan, and I infield trated a system
that was about getting the best out of people. Now,
I was invited because I was supposedly an expert on
alcohol and drugs. They asked me to come in and
give a speech. So I said, you want me to
come into a twenty minute raw rah forty minute we
(07:49):
love you, just say no to eighteen to twenty two
years old. That is the dumbest idea in the world.
I said, I say, so, let me give you the
names of some folks that might do it. And say,
but this is Michigan. I said, yeah, I went to Michigan.
There's Michigan football. Yeah, I love Michigan football. That's nice,
but that doesn't work. They know more about alcohol and
drugs than we do. And standing up in front of
the group and then you get to check a box
(08:11):
and say we did a lecture. Now I can't have
my name associated.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
With that show.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
The head coach at the time was a gentleman named
shim Becker. Shim Becker wanted to who is this fool?
Let me meet him? So I came in and suggested
to him that if he was serious, the lecture would
be this part of the program, and the whole program
would include something that didn't exist yet, integrated behavioral healthcare.
(08:40):
That's what you know about behavioral healthcare, but it didn't
have that name at the time. So I'm saying, if
I come in and talk to your team, I need
to know who the physician is. I need to know
who the sport administrator is. I need to know who
the treatment facility is going to be I need to
know how we're going to capture. If a guy raised
his hands say, oh my god, job, I just had
(09:01):
to confess I'm struggling mightily.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
What would happen to him?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
And if you can't tell me what happened to that kid,
if you're talking about you kicking him out, I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Want any parts of it. And that's how it got started.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
The next thing, you know, several years goes by and
a new athletic director comes in and says, we're not
using you effectively? Are we? I said it was a
matter of facturers not. He said, well, what would.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You do different?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I say, instead of being focused on pathology and someone
getting in trouble, we need to set it up so
a young person could talk to somebody other than a
coach about daily living problems. Because the biggest problem you
have athletes in college is they keep turning out to
be human beings. Don't tell anybody, but they're going through
(09:48):
the same crap the rest of those students are going through. Pluse.
They have a full two full time jobs being a
student and being a first class, top tier peak performing athlete.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
But who they are yet? Yes, don't get me started.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
You're three hundred pounds six foet inches tall. It looked
like a grown ass man in your kid, an adolescent
struggling to find out who you are, where you fit.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Then our needs.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So if we can give them a vehicle by which
they could just talk to somebody, continuum up there. You
can come in and talk to me about you dating
a food, or you can come in and talk about
this depression is killing me.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
That's a wide range.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Jay, my mom and daddy crazy. I think I'm gonna
kill myself tonight.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
That's a wide range.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I had a kid, This is a true story. I
had a kid who was the top tier lineman. He
was that guy, all big ten, all American, all boom
boom boom. And it's the night of the biggest game
of his life. And he says, look, been trying not
to bother you about this, but a girl I'm dating,
I mean we broke up and she's on drugs and
(11:08):
she's suicidal and she's sitting outside of my house every
night with a gun. Yeah, we got a twenty year
old kid who's trying to decide what he won't he
won't tell anybody. That's what she's doing and he doesn't
want to get her in trouble. Well, she's threatening herself,
she's threatening him, she's threatening the community.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Brah.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
So historically that's not what he've been sent in for.
Does he have a cocaine problem. No, his girlfriend has
a cocaine problem and she's crossing the line. So having
built into a system an opportunity for young people to say,
I just need to just chat, I just need to vent.
(11:53):
Tom Brady didn't come in to see me because he
was in trouble. He came in because he was confused.
That's when how it was coming in and talking about
say man, I've seen what you've done, tell me what
to do? What there's a nineteen jay Judsmin Howard studied
me for a year before he talked to me. Wow Wow.
Judsemin Howard studied me and says, look, I'm watching you
(12:17):
and like, I see what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
What you're doing.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
You're standing in front of us and you I mean,
they tell you that we have a short attention span.
They tell you that you can only talk to us
for ten minutes. You keep us for forty five minutes
straight and nobody is saying anything except responding to what
you want?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
How do you do that?
Speaker 4 (12:38):
You sometimes look like a preacher, sometimes you look like
a comedian. Then you seem like a bloody professor.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Is that on purpose?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Sir? What did you say? How are you nineteen years old?
Jay saying? I want to do that. I want to
do that. I want to command the audience. I want
to be that guy. In addition to that, I want
to be the best on the team.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So when you talk about Brady, I always say, with
Tom Man, you want to find out, you want to
be the best. Find out with the best doesn't do
more than them, And that's the secret is success?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Just how many people really want to put that work
in now? As many people want to put that work
in like Tom does. But give me what you think
makes the different than everybody else, and then be some
of the things.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
You did to help talk get to this level?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
What makes Tom Brady and a handful of other people
that you've alluded to different. They were hungry, that's predictable, right,
But they were.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Humble, hungry and humble.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Come on, Jay, I mean hungry and a bear coming
out of hibernation, but humble enough to say, school me,
coach me, they were Coachabo right, coachable, Jay, that's who
you love. The guy your Jim Coachabo, that's my guy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, who don't take offense to it?
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Absolutely, come on, no, give it to me, Give it
to me straight. They wanted it straight, No chaser, you
understand that's what they wanted. What happened with Tom was
is legendary and you'll hear me trailers and shows making
it very clear. It's nothing I can teach Tom Brady
(14:13):
about football. There's nothing I can tell Austin Matthews about hockey.
There's nothing I can tell Jay j about being all
the things. But if what I can tell Tom Brady
anyone that will listened to me, is to practice training,
rehearse giving one hundred per one hundred percent of the
(14:35):
time at everything you do, not just at MMA, not
just at lifting weights. But if you can give one
hundred percent of the stuff you don't even like, what happens.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
To you when you get to the stuff you love.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
You've got a habit of pushing yourself. Now you look
at Brady and you say, now this is wind lose
a draw. He said, oh, what does that mean? I said,
Brady is the guy that will say, yeah, you said
one hundred percent, one hundred percent of the.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Time, win, lose or draw.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I see that means that, brother, if I fight Jay
Glazer and he beats my behind and he said, damn,
I don't ever want to fight that guy. You've done
all you can do. All I'm asking you is to
do all you can do every time. And so if
we're real honest, you can't give one hundred hundred percent
(15:32):
of the time. But if it's your default mode, if
it's where you are always trying to go, if it
is in the back of your mind, if it's your
mindset is where, if it's how you roll my worst day,
it will be better than the average man's best day.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Bam. Love that man, Love that, absolutely love that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You know, these guys are not the most trusting people
who row How did he get their trust?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
You get Tom Brady trust Michael Trump's trust.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Tom Brady watched what Desmond Howard and I did, and
Desmond Howard, Desmond Howard created this secret weapon guy right
in Sports Illustrated nineteen Lotty Dottie Show. Tom watched what
Dusmond and I did and he talked to Desmond, and
Desmond said this is the guy. So he says, I
just want to chat with you because you know, I
(16:23):
know Desmond was getting ready to leave and you talk
to him. And right now I'm struggling mightily. This is
I don't know if I should stay here. Tom says,
you know, gee, I want to be the starting quarterback
at Michigan. So I'm coming to see you. And I
have to say, Tom, Tommy, I can't help you be
(16:44):
starting quarterback at Michigan, but I can help you believe
if no one else believes in your ass and who
you are and who you're going to become.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
He said, let's start right there.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
He said, let's go, Rob All, I can help you.
I don't well, the coaches don't belie.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I don't care what your coaches think. What do you think?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
How do you see yourself if they If you don't
believe in yourself, why should anybody else? He said, Oh,
this guy was so coachable, so humble, so hungry. He
would just take notes. Here's the piece You've got to decide,
Tom Brady. You've got to decide, Desmond Howard, that with
(17:24):
or without football, your life is going.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
To be amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Once you decide that, your life is going.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
To be amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Whether this crap works or not, we just increased the chances.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
That are the work. So everywhere is what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Tom Brady looks at you and you know me, I say.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
What did I just say?
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Tom?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
He said, well, you said that.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Basically, I'm more than a football player. That's all I said. Tom,
you must not define yourself as a football player. You
a man and what kind of man do you want
to be? How do you want to operate as a
human being? You got to decide you want to go
to the NFL.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
You need to screw the NFL.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
What does the NFL stand for long? Not for long?
So until you understand that football is a vehicle, a
vehicle for you to get what you want for you
for self expression. If you don't use it and play
with it and turn it intoto an adventure, you're gonna
be confused because if it's not working, you're gonna be
(18:28):
all said because football doesn't work. I need you to
be so obsessed and we're trying to figure out who
you are and who you want to become, that football
just falls in place.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Does that fall under you know?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I saw in your book. I saw it stood out
to me, your control the controllables.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yes, sir, Yes, sir, jay, I can't control what your
coaches thinking. I can't control what your coaches are gonna do.
You can't control how old is your coach Tommy h
forty five, fifty years old. What's the likelihood of your
coach change zero?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Okay? So what can you change my attitude?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
How I'm approaching it, how I'm responding to it, how
you control your response, control your reactions. That's what you
can control. You can't control them. That's what it means.
You teach people to go to the space where they
have control over something You can barely control yourself, But
you better fight for that.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
You better focus, like a laser.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Being on controlling how you respond and how you react.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
And now I'll get it to Michael Phelps.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Is Michael Phelps my dude, and I just want to
let you know Michael Phelps and I have both come
out and talk about our mental health issues, our depression, anxiety,
and it's been one of the.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Best things I think that ever could happen to either
one of us. Is he and I.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I had them on this podcast and we were so wrong,
vulnerable here and I've known each other because we did
subway commercials together about fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Set along those lines, and we lost touch when we.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Started talking about our mental health issues. Suddenly we had
a battle.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Buddy.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He reaches out to me. I reached out to him
when I'm struggling. Reached out to him when he's struggling.
He reaches out to me. We have this team, but
also we reach out to each other when we're not struggling,
so we always know. So he's very special to me
as well.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I know he is.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
When I hit him, when I told him I'm you know,
I'm having you.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
On, he said, that's my dude, that's my guy. He's
the best. So he went crazy. So I know why
he's so special. Tell me how you guys linked up.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
And what you did with him, Jay, Just segue back
to what fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
You were a totally different person.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Yes, I created a character at that everybody I thought
everybody immercial.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I was just trying to have fun to hide my pain.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
You are gifted and talented you doing I was the
sport administrator for swimming and diving and water polo, right,
and so we had to hire a new head coach
for the men's swim team. So this guy, Bob Bowman
resume shows up and I'm fascinated by this person. Now
(21:05):
I'm not thinking clearly at the time.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Michael Phelps.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I'm not even thinking that as the resume is not
saying Michael Phelps, and I'm looking at Bowman's profile, I'm saying, God,
I like this guy. We got an interview and he
comes in the interviews, I say, Hey, this is the
guy I want to hire. The rest of y'all make
your decision, but this is the guy I want to hire.
We hire Bob Bowman. Who shows up with Bob Bowman
(21:29):
Michael Phelps show Now, Michael Phelps is the volunteer assistant
coach for a college swim team and in the pool
with our guys, kicking a bus and training them. So
Bob Bowman turns out to be the most coachable coach, oxymoron,
(21:50):
the most coachable coach I've ever worked with.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Wow, that's a heck of a statement there, Broh.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I'll say it to anyone, and I've had some great coaches.
This is some great experiences with Bob Bowman said, tell
me what works what doesn't work, because it was a
different age group and population that he had never worked
with before. So he said, you know you're my administrator.
I'll listen to you. So your goes by, and he says,
you know, me and Michae are going through some challenges.
(22:21):
I mean we're talking to Michael is now eighteen nineteen
years old, and you know he hasn't had a childhood.
He was identified at twelve years old to be to
be an Olympian. By fifteen, he's in the Olympics. By
eighteen nineteen, he's back in the Olympics, kicking ass and
(22:42):
taking names. But rebellion has to take place, so he
begins to act out and like, Bob is so confused.
He's never been like this. He's always been perfect, and
yet why is this going on? And he can't understand
that he's surrogate Daddy. Who else you going rebel against Bob?
Bob's Mike Guy. I'm coaching Bob, And he said, do
(23:04):
you think he could talk to Michael. I said, a
hold on, player, Mike ain't gonna come talk to me.
He said, yeah, but but I said, I tell you
what you tell Mike that I'm fascinated with him and
want to meet him and then tell him who I've
worked with and he said, okay, Mike comes in and
uh and we're kicking it. Jay Glazer, listen carefully. I
(23:26):
treated Michael Phelps like he was a person, like he
was just another cat off the block. Stars fool, I say,
stars all the time. Come on, sit down. Let's talk
about who you are, where you're going, and how you're
gonna get this, and what are you gonna do besides
gold medals? And when are you gonna give one hundred
per cent again? Because you're not?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
And he looking at me like what I said? He
so we just would kick it. We would just kick it.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
We wouldn't talk about anything except his life, and he did.
Who gets to do that? He doesn't get to do that.
I don't care that you're all this and that you
know what's working what's not working in your life. And
that door opens up. It opens up a door to
talk about life and the pursuit of happiness. So what
(24:12):
would make you happy? Other than I said, what if
you got rich and famous?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
For real?
Speaker 4 (24:17):
What would you do with power and influence?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
JG.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
That's what I talked about to my guys. So what
happens if this turns into everything.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
You dreamed of.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Now, what are you gonna do when you're gonna let
go of daddy issues, when you're gonna go yesterday's baggage?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I said, bro, I can make you'll be a better
a better Olympian.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
If you let go of some of this crap you
dragging around everywhere you go. So I wasn't this therapist,
but I convinced him that he might need to tell this.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
So we've had a great relationship since he was a
teenager in ann Arbor trying to find himself and that's
what he was trying to do, and I was fortunate
enough to be there and he allowed me to talk
to him like he was a regular guy. I think
people like this, you know, they definitely need somebody like you,
because for me, I wasn't able to feel love from.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
The inside out because of depression anxiety. So I didn't
understand what that was.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
But as a result of that, it forced me to
go seek out and do I thought such great things
to get some love from the outside in. And I
hope they meet in the middle. But the biggest shock
to my system was quote unquote made it. I wasn't
happy my wallet was not an antidepression. Holy crowd, you
gotta be kidding me. Like bows and unicorns, like that
(25:42):
outside stuff wantn't to make me happy for the inside out?
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Where do we find out? From Jay, listen to what
you just said.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Remember I talked about the four a's, the need for attention, affection, approval,
and acceptance. I've made a fool of myself, but I've
all also risen to the highest levels possible pursuing attention, affection, approval,
and acceptance.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
That's what you did.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
That quest for the four a's leads you down this path,
which ends up being an amazing path. It doesn't cure you,
it doesn't finish you, but it sets you up to
be on a mission. Your mission comes from your challenges.
Your pain has created a monster on.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Mental health stats. No doubt, scars make me who I am,
no doubt. I don't talk about my successes, talk about
my scars. I've bragg to myself about my scars, not
my success.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And I think you know that's a big thing with
you teach people, is that, look, we're not all going
to have the success that we want. We all got scars.
If you lean in on those scars. Those could be
your superpowers.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
And so being able to help people have a clue,
and they get tired of clues.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Tell me what to do. Sometimes they say, you.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Need to obsess over self and self acceptance. You're obsessed
with everybody else's love. You're obsessing over about everybody else's acceptance.
When at some point will you deliberately and intentionally decide
I'm gonna love me, I'm gonna love me so much?
(27:18):
How I can afford to love you? Because where we
go is like how I feel about me flaws and
all flaws and all until flaws and alls is included,
that's not love and love and love till you give
it away. But the love I'm giving away is simply counterfeit. Ah, well,
(27:39):
how do I get there? Because I want to be
a loving, caring, compassionate, concerned individual, And in order to
give the love that I want to give, it has
to come from my heart. It has to be something
I can see in me. It doesn't mean it's perfect,
It will never be perfect. And the pursuit of perfection
(28:00):
and it's a fool's game. But pursuing perfection is fun.
But if you try to be perfect, you'll kill yourself,
You'll never be happy.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
We talk about the approval part.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It wasn't until this past year that I learned how
important it is for me to build up my self approval,
not approval from everybody else, but man, I'm fifty three.
I didn't learn how to start doing that till recently.
I wish I met you freaking twenty five years ago.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Bruh, Jay, I'm like fans in my mid of the
late thirties, and I'm giving all these speeches and the
lectures and talking about four a's and like I was.
For some reason, it hit me, My god, I'm almost
forty years old and I'm still seeking my father's approval.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
What am I doing?
Speaker 4 (28:46):
And so I decided that my father loved me, he
just didn't know how to show it. I decided my
father believed in me, but he didn't. His fault. He
didn't even know who his father was. No one modeled
for him how to be a daddy. And instead of
me just pissing and moaning about what he didn't do,
I had to start looking at what did he do
(29:09):
and what did he do right? And what he did wrong.
I have articulated it. I've chronicled, I've documented it, But
when am I going to allow him to be a
human being instead of Daddy, who I wounded? So I
decided my father loved me and that he thought highly
of me, and I said, I'm done with that, I
(29:30):
swear to God. Two weeks later, the phone rings. Hey,
this is your pops. Hey Dad, how you doing? He said,
I'm all right. You know what's going on? I said,
I'm surprised. Why are you calling me? He said, well,
I needed your advice. Who's this?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Really, can I speak to my father? He said, no,
you're You're funny, And I figured you know more about
this than I do. Who is this brouh? I'm flipping
out because he's never talk like this. But whatever, God
you believe in sent me a message that food. You
did the right thing for giving your father for not
(30:08):
being perfect and letting go of yesterday's baggage. My father
called and told me he loved me and it and
admired and respected me. I was, I mean on All
I did was decide two weeks ago to stop holding
him hostage to what he didn't do.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Open up your universe, right, Lord, you start attracting something
that you never thought you'd yet.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
That's beautiful, that's amazing, that's the truth. Hard for a
lot of us. Yeah, bruh. But let's think.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
About how it applies. Who thinks of MVP, who sits
something and thinks about what am I going to do next?
It comes up with stuff that's gonna save lives. Okay,
my next mission is to save more lives. Jay. That's
what you did. And so everybody run around trying to
how great you are you you can't hear that, but
(30:59):
what you can here, it's what you have done is
concrete and measurable. You've changed lives, You've saved lives, and
you did it on purpose.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
I do thank you so much. I wouldn't been able
to accept that years ago. I can now. Is that
right being of services that keeps being the blue.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
It's beautiful and I never dreamed you'd be doing this
never I didn't have those scores, I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Do it, Brod.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
If it didn't have the scars, you wouldn't be able
to look at the cat who you've shoes you've never
been in and say I can relate, And they say
I think you can. They know you can't, because Brod,
this this ain't about us. This book is not about me.
There's stories in this book, short to the point knocking
(31:47):
on your butt, stories that you will love and somebody
you don't have to read it all that you can
just open that bad boy up and a story will
pop you in your eyes.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
But there's short stories to tell people the history of
folks who are like them everybody I talk about. This
is not about athletics. This is not about stars. It's
about people struggling to find out who they are and
how to become the world's greatest expert on one subject themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Beautiful, give me before I let you go, two more questions, Yes, sir,
give me another message in this book that you want
to make sure the world can hear that I haven't
brought up.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
The most important piece is that no one can make
you feel inferior without your permission. Eleanor Roosevelt. Eleanor Roosevelt.
No one can make you feel inferior without your permission. Okay,
let me tell you what Greg rode. Your self worth
and self esteem must not be based on performance or
(32:51):
external factors. How I feel about me and got jack
to do with?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
How much money you're gonna pay me and got jacked?
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Do? How many touchdowns are?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Right?
Speaker 4 (33:01):
How I feel about me has to go beyond what
you think of me.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
What I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
I'm gonna fight for it, and you gotta be willing
to fight for it and not just hope and wish.
Is this is your podcast X rated?
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Oh, you can say whatever the fuck you want. Are
you ready for this? Jay?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Don't judge me. All right, You're in my office and
you're talking about I wish. I'm so tired of being
this way. And I would say to you, Jay, we've
been together now for like several months, maybe a couple
of years. So I want you to do an experiment.
I want you tonight. I want you to go home.
I want you to take your left hand. I want you
(33:47):
to to wish in it. I want you to take
your right hand, Jay, and I want you to shit
in it, and then come back and tell me which
one got field first. I got issues, I know, I
know I'll do it well. Wish in one hand and
should in the other, and tell me which gets filled first.
Wishing is not enough.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
You gotta fight for your sanity.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
You gotta do whatever it takes to stay sane in
this crazy world. They can't have me, they can't have you.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Jay love that, man, I love that, and we do.
We let all the external voices shape us, and they
become the truth. When they don't have to be the truth,
we can decide what that truth is.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
The voices in your here be lying you're all fucked up. Yeah,
and I am worthy.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Fuck you, I'm fucking up, but I'm good with my
fucked upness.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Now. I'm worthy of being fucked up.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Predictable, predictable, therefore manageable.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
So my last question, he is I asked every one
of my guests, give me your unbreakable moment for me.
Unbreakable is man a thing that was supposed to break
you but then't and you came to the other side
of that and as a result of that and you're
stronger forever.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
There are quite a few, but let me tell you
this one, this one piece. I think I was in
about twenty three years old, and I was living a
lifestyle that was definitely predictable in terms of what could happen.
You're going to be locked up, you're going to be dead,
you're going to be hospitalized somehow. It ain't gonna end
(35:25):
right the way you're going. And I looked, and I prayed,
and I pondered, and I said to God, if I
lived to see twenty five, if I lived to see
twenty five, there must be some purpose for my life.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Jah.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
I hit twenty five, and oops, I hadn't made a promise.
And at twenty five, I said, at twenty five, I've
been on this, I've been on a planet for a
quarter of a century. I should at least have a
clue who I am and where I'm trying to go.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
And so my first purpose was pursuit of purpose. Man.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
I love that, dude. I have love connecting with you.
I've known about you for a long time. You weren't
such a secret weapon of me. I knew about you
for a long time. I'm really glad we got a
chance to connect. Young's book Stay Sane in an insane world,
how to control the controllables and thrive. And I love
that too, because you're not just surviving, you're thriving there.
It is, man, I really appreciate it. Congratulate you on
(36:24):
that as well. That that's huge, you know. And one
thing when I, you know, wrote this book, is how
many people you end up helping and power and saving.
You don't know what is watching somewhere else, and it's
it's I just want you to be able to love
yourself up for that, because you're probably helping somebody right
now that you have no idea about.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Man.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
So make it real clear. I don't buy books. I'm
getting ready to buy your book, but I hope people
will appreciate that her picking mine up.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
But Brad, thank you.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
I am so humble and pleased to have this opportunity
to chat with you and get a.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Clue about who you are for real
Speaker 2 (37:03):
My dude, I appreciate you so much, getting Greg Harden everybody,
thank you so much, my dude,
Fox Sports Radio News
Host
Jonas Knox
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