May 19, 2023 • 28 mins
Ben Maller & Danny G. have another fun Friday bonus broadcast! Two sport legend Bo Jackson has been in the news lately due to chronic hiccups. MJ Kievman, Founder & CEO of Meter Health, leads a team of world-class biotechnology researchers, who have been working hard to find a cure for Bo's type of condition. Maller asks MJ some great questions, & then fills you in on this weekend's Minnesota festivities!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Kabbooms.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
If you thought four hours a day, twelve hundred minutes
a week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants
of the old republic, a sol fashion of fairness. He
treats crackheads in the ghetto gutter the same as the
rich pill poppers in the penthouse.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The Clearinghouse of Hot takes break free for something special.
The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right now in the.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
A every way you have stumbled on the Fifth Hour
with Ben Mahler and Danny g Radio as we kick
off a very important weekend here in the middle part
of May. As this is the weekend that the Eagle
(00:49):
will land in Minnesota. We're gonna have information. If you
have not heard any of the promotion for the Malor
Meet and greet in Minnesota, We're gonna have information on
that coming up. But I wanted to do something a
little different on the podcast. I figure we have this
great platform. We have thousands and thousands of people that
(01:10):
download this podcast on a weekly basis. God bless you
and thank you for that. And things that catch my attention,
things that across my radar that I'm interested in. Why
don't we do a little bit of a deeper dive
on them and see where we can go. And one
of the stories over the last couple of weeks that
has popped into my head and I cannot, I cannot
(01:33):
get it out of my head is the life and
times of Bo Jackson. Now, you gotta understand that this
Bo Jackson story is off the wall if you didn't
hear about it, a legend in the NFL with our Raiders,
the La Raiders, the Kansas City Royals back in the
nineteen eighties. And Bo Jackson is now sixty years old
(01:56):
and is suffering from a chronic medical condition hiccups. You
probably say, well, hiccups are something that happens when you
drink too much carbonation. You know, I had it when
I was a kid, or even as an adult, back
when I used to drink soda and I'd have too
much Doctor Pepper, too much cherry Coke, I would have
the hiccups. But there is a chronic level of hiccups.
(02:17):
And Bo Jackson said he's had this condition for almost
a year. That he's had this it's wild to me. Now.
Another reason that I'm interested, not only was a child
when Bo Jackson was playing and I was amazed by
the ability to play in the NFL and baseball at
the same time. But I started out at a very
(02:39):
young age. As you may know or may not know,
and you may not care, but I started at a
very young age in radio. I was nineteen years old,
so I was only a few years removed from being
like a hart O fan. And one of my first
assignments for the station I worked at in San Diego
was to cover the California as I covered the sports scene.
(03:00):
But at that time, Bo Jackson had gone through the
major injury with the Raiders. He had retired from everything.
He came back as a baseball player. He was playing
for the California Angels. And here I am. I'm a
nineteen year old guy, and I'm interviewing Bo Jackson. And
Bo was really cool and he had a bit of
(03:24):
a stuttering problem, but he didn't mind talking. He was
very available to those dopes like me and the other
idiots in the media. So I'm interested in this, and
now to hear that Bo's been going through this, I
didn't even know this was a thing. I didn't really
know much about it. Bo talked about all these different
remedies that he's going through. So I said, you know what,
we need to get somebody on this podcast. I've got
(03:45):
to learn more about this. I need to learn more
about this. So we'll get into the Minnesota stuff. But
before we get to that, I wanted to bring on
someone who knows all and my man Danny g He
turned over some rocks, he went behind some mountains, and
we have got on the podcast. Right now, we're gonna
(04:08):
welcome in MJ. Keeveman is her name, and she has
forgotten more about hiccups than I will ever know. How
do I know that? She is the founder, She's the
CEO of a company which I believe is the only
company dedicated to researching hiccups. Hello, Yes, we talk to
(04:31):
the captains of industry on this podcast. But this boat
Jackson story fascinates me, as I explained, So let's get
into it right now. We welcome in MJ. Keeveman is
her name. Hiccups are her game. And so before we
get into the boat Jackson stuff, MJ. Tel the lay
person who's listening to this podcast, like, how does one
(04:55):
start going down a rabbit hole on the hiccups?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
How?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
How did this begin? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
So I'm the CEO of a company called meter Health,
who are a biotechnology company that's advancing science and developing
solutions for the whole spectrum of hiccups, so all the
way from the occasional hiccups that we're familiar with day
to day to chronic kickups like the one that bo
Jackson is experiencing. I got into this because I experienced
(05:22):
what I now know were likely chronic kickups back when
I was a kid. I had hiccups for about three months,
multiple bouts per day, the bouts of blasts for hours
at a time, for months on end, And that's what
got me into this space. The more that I started
researching and trying to understand what I was experiencing, the
more that I realized that it's a severely unmet medical
(05:44):
need in this space of chronic kickups. And obviously everyone
thinks of hiccups is something that always goes away with
time or with the use of home remedies, but for
millions of people worldwide, including hundreds of thousands of chemotherapy
patients per year in the US alone, hickups can be devastating,
a call of life and life threatening, and we call
those chronic kickups.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Oh yeah, I know. I think we all get hiccups occasionally.
But I remember when I was a kid, and you know,
it's always awkwardhen you're around your friends and stuff. But
how how common you gave some numbers there? How common
is this? Uh, you know day to day out of
you know, one hundred people, how many maybe it's even
more than that, But how how common is like chronic hiccups.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
When we talk about chronic kickups, we typically bucket them
into two different categories. One are chronic kickups that last
for longer than forty eight hours but are connected to
when underlying medical condition or medical treatment. So, for example,
patients can experience chronic hiccups related to chemote therapy for
weeks on ends in relation to their chemot therapy treatments,
(06:47):
but often those hiccups resolve once they're chemotherapy treatments stop.
But on the opposite side, we have what are called
intractable hiccups, and intractable hiccups are a subset of chronic
kickups that last for years and years, and doctors are
often unable to pinpoint and underlying cause that's related to
hiccups or that's causing the hiccups. And that makes them
(07:07):
extremely difficult to treat and also makes them prone to
continuing for longer. In terms of chronic hiccups related to
things like chemotherapy, millions of people experience that worldwide, but
intractable hiccups only about a thousand people experience them per
year in the US alone.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Interesting and has anyone explained? Maybe this is out there
and I'm just an idiot, but like why do why
do humans hiccup? Like what is the what is the
reason for that? Is there a good reason for it?
Is it? Does it help some way? Like why do
we do it at all?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
So my scientific co founder actually recently published on this,
and his theory is that hiccups. Hiccups occur as a
vestigial breathing pattern. So similarly to the way that we
have a primary, secondary, and a tertiary cardiac rhythm, we
also have primary, secondary, and tersiery breathing rhythms. Essentially, So
(08:03):
anytime that our body is quote shocked out of a
normal breathing pattern, or you feel is that you can't
breathe normally, you will fall into this secondary or vestigial
breathing pattern, which is a hiccup breathing pattern. He believes
that that's an evolutionary response that evolved from our amphibious
ancestors needed a way of bringing water in through the
(08:23):
gills while keeping it out of the lungs. And amphibians
have a flap of cartilage called the glottis that helps
them do exactly that. Humans also have a glottis. So
that's how we have this physiological hiccup reflex.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Wow, so we can blame the fact that we were
in the ocean. That's the reason. That's amazing to me.
I love that. That's great.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Awe, that's super interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
That is that's wild. My mind's wandering here. But let's
get to Bo Jackson. I want to I wanted to
talk to you about Bo specifically. You know, I do
a sports show and a lot of people even though
this podcast we talked to titans of industry like yourself,
but we always go through the sports windows. So Bo
Jackson legendary figure in the sporting world and all that.
(09:09):
And I saw this interview that he did when he
revealed that he's had the hiccups, and he actually missed
a very big event in Alabama at his old school,
Auburn because he didn't want to show up because he's
had the hiccups and all that for over a year
and it's it's wild. And he said that he's dabbled
in all these home remedies. And since you run a
company and you're the CEO of a company involved in
(09:32):
the hiccup world, I wanted to go through these and
get your thoughts on if they do anything at all
or they are just nonsense. So Bo Jackson said that
he tried the scare technique, and uh, what exactly is that?
For those that don't know, I assume it's kind of
obvious that you get scared and then you stop doing
(09:54):
the higgups, But does that work at all?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
That could have some scientific merit and could work for
some people anytime you want to stop the hiccups, you
want to essentially shock your breathing patterns back to normal.
I think for a lot of people, being scared wouldn't
be a subfishment stimulus for that. But it's fully possible
for some people. But in Bo Jackson's case, there's almost
no way that that would work.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, he also said he tried hanging upside down. I
think if I tried to hang upside down, MJ, I
would die, I would not be able to do it,
But BO said, he tried that you ever heard of
that working.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I've actually never heard of that as a remedy before this,
and I can't really think of a reason why that
one would work. But yeah, I have not heard of
that before.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
All right, he said, Now this one, I've heard of
drinking water. I remember when I was a kid, they
said cold water. I think was what I remember when
I was younger. Does that do anything that could provide.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Some stimulation to nerves in the roape, mouth or abdomen
that can help reset breathing patterns, or the act of
swallowing water could provide some crush So that helps you that,
But for most people, even with just occasional, everyday hiccups,
that's likely too beak of a stimulus.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
All right. Now, the other one here that he mentioned,
I really need information on this, and you're the person, MJ.
He said that he smelled the back end of a porcupine.
He claimed, Now, what the heck is this? Where would
one say, hey, this is a good idea, let's get
(11:27):
a porcupine and that will make the hiccups go away.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, I genuinely have no idea when people sent me
this interviewer of the article when it was initially coming out.
That's what they were all pointing out I have never
heard about before. I don't know if it was a joke,
but I have no what a porcupine smelled like. I
have no input on that own.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Well.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I would think anything on that end does not smell
particularly good. But why stop with a porcupine?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
You can go to the zoo and there's elephants from
Ryan Hose and you can just knock yourself out. The
other one that I remember this is for everything. Any
if you go to any of these places that have
like home remedies, they'll say apple cider vinegar that apple
cider vinegers like the magic elixir. So you are the
(12:14):
number one person to talk to when it comes to hiccups.
So does apple cider vinegar MJ work for the hiccups?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, Apple setter vinegar can be effective for the hiccups
A meter halt. We actually have a consumer product that
it's a lollipop that stop stop pickups that incorporates apple
cider vinegar. The problem with apple stader finger in a
lot of cases is that a it's very difficult for
people to drink. It tastes bad. It's kind of shocking.
But also if you have things like mouthstores from chemotherapy,
(12:44):
the acidic content of apple setter vinegar can really impact
things like mouth stores. If you have trouble swallowing, that's
going to be even more difficult to use. But apple
set of vinegar can be effective.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
All right, So we've got that, and now let's get
to the main event here. Jackson said that, and maybe
he's already had it. We have I have not gotten
an update on this as we're recording this podcast, but
both said that he was scheduled to have surgery to
cure the hiccups. This fascinates me, like, what what kind
of surgery? Uh, you think he's obviously you don't know, Bob,
(13:20):
But what do you think he's he's going to have
done here or has had done?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
If I had to guess, I would say that they'd
be performing a frenic nerve oblation surgery or some other
kind of surgery that would clip some of the key
nerves involved in the hiccup reflex. There are some other
surgical or non surgical ways that doctors might approach intractable hiccups.
Like that botox even is one orthodontic work can be another.
(13:49):
So orthodonic surgery could make an impact on intractable hiccups.
But my guests would be kind of clipping one of
those key nerves involved in the hiccup reflex.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And how long rough has that? I had never heard
of this before Bow brought it up. That's one of
the reasons I wanted to talk to you, is like,
how how long has this procedure been around? Because I
don't ever remember hearing anything about it. Maybe I'm not
in that world, you're in that world, But how how
long has that been around? Is that a long term thing?
Is more recent?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
It's been more recent if you go back a really
long time, so back towards just, you know, way further
back in history, chronic hiccups and intractable hiccups like this
have always been around. These surgical interventions are newer, so
they still aren't I guess as bold documented in terms
of how they work for the exact kind of surgery
(14:39):
that people would perform. There's just not a great kind
of diagnosis or treatment protocol for intractable hiccups. These are
newer surgeries, but they've been around at least for decades.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I got you. And is this a genetic thing or
is it something that just kind of develops randomly.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
So there can be a variety of factors. What's interesting
about intractable hiccups And the longest recorded case of intractablehiccups
ever was sixty four years. They tend to occur more
in men over the age of fifty. But what really
makes intractable hickups tricky is the fact that they can't
be linked, oftentimes to an underlying cause. So I know
(15:17):
a lot of people who I've worked with for many,
many years who have had their whole quality of life
just turned around by having intractable hiccups, Because not only
do the actual hiccups prevent their ability to socialize or
to have a job, or to eat or to sleep,
but the fact that there are so many treatment options
that either only work for a brief period of time
(15:39):
or don't work at all is also exceptionally frustrating and debilitating.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, and so you've got your company and you're working
on different solutions and all that. Do you think that
we'll have like you could take a pill or something,
or like, what do you think the end game if
there is one to make the hiccup problem go away.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, I think that for certain cases, like patients who
have chronic hiccups from chemotherapy. We're developing a pill for
that now. But in terms of intractable hiccups, that could
be something like a medical device that could also be
a pill. Trick I think in the case of intractable
hiccups is to minimize pickups as a symptom, if you will. So,
(16:22):
Obviously hiccups can be a disease in their own right,
but you want to stop someone from hiccupping while also
being able to diagnose what might be causing the underlying hiccups.
So I think managing hiccups on medication, to manage hiccups
that are intractable, is important. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I was checking out your website and then you'd mentioned
the like the lollipop, which is not a lollipop. It's
it's a medical I guess thing, right, it's to help
the the Uh, how is it different? I guess I'm
looking at it here, it looks it looks not bad
at all, Like, what what makes it so magical?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, the lollipops are only meant for occasional hiccups. So
those are the types of pickups that we get from
drinking alcohol, eating something too fast, et cetera. So hiccups
that only last for under forty eight hours. And what
helps the pop work is both the blend of ingredients
inside the pop that can send us signal back to
your brain stem where our central pattern generator for breathing
(17:22):
is and reset breathing patterns back to normal, but also
the actual mechanism of sucking on a lollipop can help
send that signal as well. It's important to note that
the kind of stimulus or the signals sent by the
lollipop are not strong enough for cases of chronic hiccups,
like for bojaction, for example. You need something much stronger
(17:43):
to continue to help reset breathing patterns back to normal.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I also saw you had you had a great some
great stats on this, which I didn't know about until
I looked at your website, but they said that a
couple of years ago was the third most searched on Google.
The third most searched healthcare term was related to hiccups.
Like this is a big Yeah, it's wild. That's wild
to me. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Everyone experiences hiccups, and I think that it's a more
prevalent problem than many of us are led to believe.
I've found that hiccups are kind of a double edged
sword in a way that if you get occasional hiccups frequently,
or if you've had chronic hiccups, then you can empathize
really well with someone who is also experiencing chronic hiccups
or hiccups that are really upsetting their everyday life. But
(18:31):
if you only get hiccups, maybe like once every two
years for thirty seconds, then you're way less likely to
be empathetic to someone who is going through that. But
I think it's a more prevalent problem than most of
us have been led to believe, especially in these medical spaces.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, for sure, I don't really get the hiccups at on.
My wife, though she gets some, you know, fairly off.
So she's like, I've gone through most of the home remedies,
Like I've done most of the home remedies myself, So
I might have to look into those lollipos. But if
people want to know more, MJ. You run. You're the
CEO of the company. People stumbled on this podcast and
(19:08):
they want to get more information, like what's the website?
Where can they go and find more information out about
all this stuff?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Do you want to know more about chronic hiccups in
our work in that space, you can go to meeter
health dot com et r health dot com. If you
want to look into Hiccapops, the lollipops at stock pickups,
you can go to hiccapops dot com. We're also available
on Amazon Outstanding.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Thank you so much for your time, m JA. I
appreciate it, Thank you, thank you so much. Appreciate that.
So turning the page. And this is a big weekend.
As we said here at the start of this podcast,
as it is meet and Greet weekend today later today,
on this Friday, I will be taking off and flying
(19:52):
from Los Angeles in the Minnesota. I'm excited about This
can be a fun weekend in Minneapolis and Saint Paul
and plan on spending a lot of time in the
great outdoors. Looking forward to that and hanging out. But
the main event is going to be the Malord Meet
and Greet. We've done a podcast on this, we had
(20:13):
spin cycle Regina on not that long ago, but I
wanted to remind you maybe you haven't listened to that
podcast or you've heard me mention the meet and greet.
You've also likely heard random people call up and ask
for information about the Mallard Meet and greet and all that.
So let me give you the details again in case
(20:33):
you are considering going, if you're in the greater Minneapolis
area or reasonable driving distance. So there are some people
that have told me they're planning on flying in and
they want to be part of this, and I'm very
grateful to those people, but I am also realistic that
for most people, if we are geographically desirable and it
(20:55):
fits in your schedule, you may consider coming out and
hang out with us. But let me tell you what
we've got planned. So nobody else has this content where
the only podcast that's talking about the Mallard Meet and greet.
Why would anyone else talk about this? But anyway, So
the Mallard Meet and greet is going to take place
at the Mermaid Inn and Event Center. That's two twenty
(21:18):
Mounds View So two two zero zero, I guess that's
twenty two hundred, twenty two hundred Mounds View Boulevard in
beautiful Moundsview, Minnesota. It is going to be tomorrow, which
is Saturday. Unless you're listening to this podcast at a
different time, it may have already happened. But the event
is scheduled for May twentieth, which, as we are doing
(21:40):
this podcast here on a Friday, that would be tomorrow.
And the reason we are doing the podcast or the show,
I should say, a meet and greet for the show
from Minnesota is just to hang out, to thank you
for supporting the show, and to say hello and introduce myself.
And if you've never been to a Malard meet and greet,
(22:03):
these have spanned the full spectrum. We have had crazy,
drunken parties with all kinds of ridiculousness that has taken place.
We have also had very small intimate meet and greets
you never know, and I've heard some amazing things. The
event has been put together by our friends spin Cycle Regina.
(22:27):
She is the hostess with the mostess. She is the
party planner. It is absolutely free to attend. We're not
charging you to attend. I have been told in recent
days to expect the unexpected. I don't know what that means.
I don't know what that means in the context of
a Mallard meet and greet. I do know that Doc
Mike is driving in from Chicago, so you got the doc.
(22:49):
I have been told that Hollering James will be making
an appearance. The Great Hollering James a legend on the show.
If you don't know Hollering James work. James has been
calling show for a number of years. He's got a
few issues, don't we all. But James is a very passionate,
hardcore Minnesota sportsman and it hasn't gone well for his teams.
(23:15):
They all suck, but doesn't stop James from screaming and shouting.
He loves being part of the show and we love
having Hollering James. The reason he got the nickname Hollering
James is because he was evicted from a house that
he was living in because he became addicted to calling
our show in the middle of the night and screaming
(23:38):
and shouting and yelling and going bonkers, and as a
result of that activity, James ended up getting evicted, so
we called him Hollering James. The name has stayed. I've
never met him, and I look forward to that, but
I really look forward to meeting everybody, and I realize
that this is always an awkward situation. I am a
(24:02):
massive introvert. That's why I went into radio as an extrovert.
I'd be in television, but I'm an introvert. And when
you're an introvert, it's odd in a lot of people
that listen to the show. It's kind of a weird thing.
You don't even know anybody you go to an event
like this. Now there are extroverts that show up, and
those people always are the star of the show to
(24:23):
these type events. But for one day, I'm going to
attempt to be an extrovert, and I will try to
go around the room and try to say hello to everybody,
And there's always that weird thing like do you who
do you approach? How do you approach them? And as
much as I'd like to make this all about me
because my name's in the title Malard Meet and Greet,
(24:44):
I would also like to point out it's really about
just hanging out with like minded people, people who are
also part of the tribe, the Malord militia, people that
have stayed up just like you have and listen to
the live radio show or used to listen a live
show and now listen to the podcast, and so just
kind of hang out and you can talk to other
(25:05):
fans of the show and people that are listeners like yourself,
and you can exchange different ideas. And we've had friendships
that have been born out of these things in the past,
and I always love when people will email me and so,
you know, I met somebody at the Boston meet and greet.
We're still friends. We hang out, you know, golf occasionally,
or we'll go out and hang out and do some
(25:26):
random activity. Some people even don't even they don't actually
meet in person, they become friends and then they're like
Facebook friends. But yeah, whatever floats your boat. Man, I'm
not who am I to judge? Sometimes those are the
best friends in the world, the cyber friends, not the
real friends. So anyway, it's it's gonna be a lot
of fun. There's gonna be a live band there. From
what I understand this, this is crazy. Doc Mike would
(25:51):
like me to be the deacon, So I guess I
will be the deacon if I follow that plan. And
we're not charging you for money. There's going to be
food available. I've never been to the Mermaid in and
event centered. There's a hotel there and if you're interested
in more information, or if you'd like to RSVP and
you want to contact our friends spin Cycle Regina. Now
(26:14):
you don't have to RSVP. It would be more convenient
for us if you did, but I realized you might
be a game time decision and it might not be
something that you're willing to commit to. So either way,
you can email at spin Cycle Regina at gmail dot com.
She is the party planner, so you can let her know.
(26:36):
She wants a rough estimate of how many people are
going to be there. I'm told there'll be a ton
of Viking fans, because why not. But there are people
coming in from Wisconsin. I've been told there's some people
from Iowa docs coming from Illinois. So you never know
who's going to show up. We did one of these
in Boston and there was a guy who's a big
(26:57):
fan of the show who drove from Toronto. We had
a guide drive from Florida with Roscoe the Parrot. David
in winter Park, Florida famously showed up, which was wild
to me, wild and crazy that he did that. And
so you never know. But it doesn't matter whether you
live right around the corner or whether you live thousands
of miles away. The fact that you are taking time
(27:19):
out of your schedule. It is the most valuable thing
you have. The most valuable thing we all have is time,
and you're going to spend some of that with me
and the friends of the show. It does mean a lot,
and so I look forward to meeting you. Hopefully you'll
be there if you can make it be great. We've
got fresh podcasts all weekend. We'll have myself and Danny
(27:40):
g will be united together on the Saturday podcast, and
then on Sunday, of course the mail Bag and I'll
be hanging out in the Twin Cities a couple of
extra days to get a little more flavor and try
to become a master of the Juicy Lucy, a ninja
of the Juicy Lucy the Great Burger which is very
(28:02):
popular and known as the Minnesota Flair. I'm not a
big seafood guest, so I'm gonna eat a lot of
juicy Lucy burgers. Have a wonderful, wonderful day today. Don't forget,
as always, tell a friend about the podcast. Email us
questions for the mail Bag Real fifth Hour at gmail
dot com, Real fifth Hour at gmail dot com, and
(28:23):
we will talk to you tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, have a
wonderful day today. As Danny g would say, later alligator.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Know that's later, Skater, Your outros are as bad as
your basketball takes.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Gotta murder, I gotta go.
Kabbooms.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
If you thought four hours a day, twelve hundred minutes
a week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants
of the old republic, a sol fashion of fairness. He
treats crackheads in the ghetto gutter the same as the
rich pill poppers in the penthouse.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The Clearinghouse of Hot takes break free for something special.
The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right now in the.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
A every way you have stumbled on the Fifth Hour
with Ben Mahler and Danny g Radio as we kick
off a very important weekend here in the middle part
of May. As this is the weekend that the Eagle
(00:49):
will land in Minnesota. We're gonna have information. If you
have not heard any of the promotion for the Malor
Meet and greet in Minnesota, We're gonna have information on
that coming up. But I wanted to do something a
little different on the podcast. I figure we have this
great platform. We have thousands and thousands of people that
(01:10):
download this podcast on a weekly basis. God bless you
and thank you for that. And things that catch my attention,
things that across my radar that I'm interested in. Why
don't we do a little bit of a deeper dive
on them and see where we can go. And one
of the stories over the last couple of weeks that
has popped into my head and I cannot, I cannot
(01:33):
get it out of my head is the life and
times of Bo Jackson. Now, you gotta understand that this
Bo Jackson story is off the wall if you didn't
hear about it, a legend in the NFL with our Raiders,
the La Raiders, the Kansas City Royals back in the
nineteen eighties. And Bo Jackson is now sixty years old
(01:56):
and is suffering from a chronic medical condition hiccups. You
probably say, well, hiccups are something that happens when you
drink too much carbonation. You know, I had it when
I was a kid, or even as an adult, back
when I used to drink soda and I'd have too
much Doctor Pepper, too much cherry Coke, I would have
the hiccups. But there is a chronic level of hiccups.
(02:17):
And Bo Jackson said he's had this condition for almost
a year. That he's had this it's wild to me. Now.
Another reason that I'm interested, not only was a child
when Bo Jackson was playing and I was amazed by
the ability to play in the NFL and baseball at
the same time. But I started out at a very
(02:39):
young age. As you may know or may not know,
and you may not care, but I started at a
very young age in radio. I was nineteen years old,
so I was only a few years removed from being
like a hart O fan. And one of my first
assignments for the station I worked at in San Diego
was to cover the California as I covered the sports scene.
(03:00):
But at that time, Bo Jackson had gone through the
major injury with the Raiders. He had retired from everything.
He came back as a baseball player. He was playing
for the California Angels. And here I am. I'm a
nineteen year old guy, and I'm interviewing Bo Jackson. And
Bo was really cool and he had a bit of
(03:24):
a stuttering problem, but he didn't mind talking. He was
very available to those dopes like me and the other
idiots in the media. So I'm interested in this, and
now to hear that Bo's been going through this, I
didn't even know this was a thing. I didn't really
know much about it. Bo talked about all these different
remedies that he's going through. So I said, you know what,
we need to get somebody on this podcast. I've got
(03:45):
to learn more about this. I need to learn more
about this. So we'll get into the Minnesota stuff. But
before we get to that, I wanted to bring on
someone who knows all and my man Danny g He
turned over some rocks, he went behind some mountains, and
we have got on the podcast. Right now, we're gonna
(04:08):
welcome in MJ. Keeveman is her name, and she has
forgotten more about hiccups than I will ever know. How
do I know that? She is the founder, She's the
CEO of a company which I believe is the only
company dedicated to researching hiccups. Hello, Yes, we talk to
(04:31):
the captains of industry on this podcast. But this boat
Jackson story fascinates me, as I explained, So let's get
into it right now. We welcome in MJ. Keeveman is
her name. Hiccups are her game. And so before we
get into the boat Jackson stuff, MJ. Tel the lay
person who's listening to this podcast, like, how does one
(04:55):
start going down a rabbit hole on the hiccups?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
How?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
How did this begin? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
So I'm the CEO of a company called meter Health,
who are a biotechnology company that's advancing science and developing
solutions for the whole spectrum of hiccups, so all the
way from the occasional hiccups that we're familiar with day
to day to chronic kickups like the one that bo
Jackson is experiencing. I got into this because I experienced
(05:22):
what I now know were likely chronic kickups back when
I was a kid. I had hiccups for about three months,
multiple bouts per day, the bouts of blasts for hours
at a time, for months on end, And that's what
got me into this space. The more that I started
researching and trying to understand what I was experiencing, the
more that I realized that it's a severely unmet medical
(05:44):
need in this space of chronic kickups. And obviously everyone
thinks of hiccups is something that always goes away with
time or with the use of home remedies, but for
millions of people worldwide, including hundreds of thousands of chemotherapy
patients per year in the US alone, hickups can be devastating,
a call of life and life threatening, and we call
those chronic kickups.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Oh yeah, I know. I think we all get hiccups occasionally.
But I remember when I was a kid, and you know,
it's always awkwardhen you're around your friends and stuff. But
how how common you gave some numbers there? How common
is this? Uh, you know day to day out of
you know, one hundred people, how many maybe it's even
more than that, But how how common is like chronic hiccups.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
When we talk about chronic kickups, we typically bucket them
into two different categories. One are chronic kickups that last
for longer than forty eight hours but are connected to
when underlying medical condition or medical treatment. So, for example,
patients can experience chronic hiccups related to chemote therapy for
weeks on ends in relation to their chemot therapy treatments,
(06:47):
but often those hiccups resolve once they're chemotherapy treatments stop.
But on the opposite side, we have what are called
intractable hiccups, and intractable hiccups are a subset of chronic
kickups that last for years and years, and doctors are
often unable to pinpoint and underlying cause that's related to
hiccups or that's causing the hiccups. And that makes them
(07:07):
extremely difficult to treat and also makes them prone to
continuing for longer. In terms of chronic hiccups related to
things like chemotherapy, millions of people experience that worldwide, but
intractable hiccups only about a thousand people experience them per
year in the US alone.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Interesting and has anyone explained? Maybe this is out there
and I'm just an idiot, but like why do why
do humans hiccup? Like what is the what is the
reason for that? Is there a good reason for it?
Is it? Does it help some way? Like why do
we do it at all?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
So my scientific co founder actually recently published on this,
and his theory is that hiccups. Hiccups occur as a
vestigial breathing pattern. So similarly to the way that we
have a primary, secondary, and a tertiary cardiac rhythm, we
also have primary, secondary, and tersiery breathing rhythms. Essentially, So
(08:03):
anytime that our body is quote shocked out of a
normal breathing pattern, or you feel is that you can't
breathe normally, you will fall into this secondary or vestigial
breathing pattern, which is a hiccup breathing pattern. He believes
that that's an evolutionary response that evolved from our amphibious
ancestors needed a way of bringing water in through the
(08:23):
gills while keeping it out of the lungs. And amphibians
have a flap of cartilage called the glottis that helps
them do exactly that. Humans also have a glottis. So
that's how we have this physiological hiccup reflex.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Wow, so we can blame the fact that we were
in the ocean. That's the reason. That's amazing to me.
I love that. That's great.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Awe, that's super interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
That is that's wild. My mind's wandering here. But let's
get to Bo Jackson. I want to I wanted to
talk to you about Bo specifically. You know, I do
a sports show and a lot of people even though
this podcast we talked to titans of industry like yourself,
but we always go through the sports windows. So Bo
Jackson legendary figure in the sporting world and all that.
(09:09):
And I saw this interview that he did when he
revealed that he's had the hiccups, and he actually missed
a very big event in Alabama at his old school,
Auburn because he didn't want to show up because he's
had the hiccups and all that for over a year
and it's it's wild. And he said that he's dabbled
in all these home remedies. And since you run a
company and you're the CEO of a company involved in
(09:32):
the hiccup world, I wanted to go through these and
get your thoughts on if they do anything at all
or they are just nonsense. So Bo Jackson said that
he tried the scare technique, and uh, what exactly is that?
For those that don't know, I assume it's kind of
obvious that you get scared and then you stop doing
(09:54):
the higgups, But does that work at all?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
That could have some scientific merit and could work for
some people anytime you want to stop the hiccups, you
want to essentially shock your breathing patterns back to normal.
I think for a lot of people, being scared wouldn't
be a subfishment stimulus for that. But it's fully possible
for some people. But in Bo Jackson's case, there's almost
no way that that would work.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, he also said he tried hanging upside down. I
think if I tried to hang upside down, MJ, I
would die, I would not be able to do it,
But BO said, he tried that you ever heard of
that working.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I've actually never heard of that as a remedy before this,
and I can't really think of a reason why that
one would work. But yeah, I have not heard of
that before.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
All right, he said, Now this one, I've heard of
drinking water. I remember when I was a kid, they
said cold water. I think was what I remember when
I was younger. Does that do anything that could provide.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Some stimulation to nerves in the roape, mouth or abdomen
that can help reset breathing patterns, or the act of
swallowing water could provide some crush So that helps you that,
But for most people, even with just occasional, everyday hiccups,
that's likely too beak of a stimulus.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
All right. Now, the other one here that he mentioned,
I really need information on this, and you're the person, MJ.
He said that he smelled the back end of a porcupine.
He claimed, Now, what the heck is this? Where would
one say, hey, this is a good idea, let's get
(11:27):
a porcupine and that will make the hiccups go away.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, I genuinely have no idea when people sent me
this interviewer of the article when it was initially coming out.
That's what they were all pointing out I have never
heard about before. I don't know if it was a joke,
but I have no what a porcupine smelled like. I
have no input on that own.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Well.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I would think anything on that end does not smell
particularly good. But why stop with a porcupine?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
You can go to the zoo and there's elephants from
Ryan Hose and you can just knock yourself out. The
other one that I remember this is for everything. Any
if you go to any of these places that have
like home remedies, they'll say apple cider vinegar that apple
cider vinegers like the magic elixir. So you are the
(12:14):
number one person to talk to when it comes to hiccups.
So does apple cider vinegar MJ work for the hiccups?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, Apple setter vinegar can be effective for the hiccups
A meter halt. We actually have a consumer product that
it's a lollipop that stop stop pickups that incorporates apple
cider vinegar. The problem with apple stader finger in a
lot of cases is that a it's very difficult for
people to drink. It tastes bad. It's kind of shocking.
But also if you have things like mouthstores from chemotherapy,
(12:44):
the acidic content of apple setter vinegar can really impact
things like mouth stores. If you have trouble swallowing, that's
going to be even more difficult to use. But apple
set of vinegar can be effective.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
All right, So we've got that, and now let's get
to the main event here. Jackson said that, and maybe
he's already had it. We have I have not gotten
an update on this as we're recording this podcast, but
both said that he was scheduled to have surgery to
cure the hiccups. This fascinates me, like, what what kind
of surgery? Uh, you think he's obviously you don't know, Bob,
(13:20):
But what do you think he's he's going to have
done here or has had done?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
If I had to guess, I would say that they'd
be performing a frenic nerve oblation surgery or some other
kind of surgery that would clip some of the key
nerves involved in the hiccup reflex. There are some other
surgical or non surgical ways that doctors might approach intractable hiccups.
Like that botox even is one orthodontic work can be another.
(13:49):
So orthodonic surgery could make an impact on intractable hiccups.
But my guests would be kind of clipping one of
those key nerves involved in the hiccup reflex.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And how long rough has that? I had never heard
of this before Bow brought it up. That's one of
the reasons I wanted to talk to you, is like,
how how long has this procedure been around? Because I
don't ever remember hearing anything about it. Maybe I'm not
in that world, you're in that world, But how how
long has that been around? Is that a long term thing?
Is more recent?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
It's been more recent if you go back a really
long time, so back towards just, you know, way further
back in history, chronic hiccups and intractable hiccups like this
have always been around. These surgical interventions are newer, so
they still aren't I guess as bold documented in terms
of how they work for the exact kind of surgery
(14:39):
that people would perform. There's just not a great kind
of diagnosis or treatment protocol for intractable hiccups. These are
newer surgeries, but they've been around at least for decades.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I got you. And is this a genetic thing or
is it something that just kind of develops randomly.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
So there can be a variety of factors. What's interesting
about intractable hiccups And the longest recorded case of intractablehiccups
ever was sixty four years. They tend to occur more
in men over the age of fifty. But what really
makes intractable hickups tricky is the fact that they can't
be linked, oftentimes to an underlying cause. So I know
(15:17):
a lot of people who I've worked with for many,
many years who have had their whole quality of life
just turned around by having intractable hiccups, Because not only
do the actual hiccups prevent their ability to socialize or
to have a job, or to eat or to sleep,
but the fact that there are so many treatment options
that either only work for a brief period of time
(15:39):
or don't work at all is also exceptionally frustrating and debilitating.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, and so you've got your company and you're working
on different solutions and all that. Do you think that
we'll have like you could take a pill or something,
or like, what do you think the end game if
there is one to make the hiccup problem go away.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, I think that for certain cases, like patients who
have chronic hiccups from chemotherapy. We're developing a pill for
that now. But in terms of intractable hiccups, that could
be something like a medical device that could also be
a pill. Trick I think in the case of intractable
hiccups is to minimize pickups as a symptom, if you will. So,
(16:22):
Obviously hiccups can be a disease in their own right,
but you want to stop someone from hiccupping while also
being able to diagnose what might be causing the underlying hiccups.
So I think managing hiccups on medication, to manage hiccups
that are intractable, is important. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I was checking out your website and then you'd mentioned
the like the lollipop, which is not a lollipop. It's
it's a medical I guess thing, right, it's to help
the the Uh, how is it different? I guess I'm
looking at it here, it looks it looks not bad
at all, Like, what what makes it so magical?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, the lollipops are only meant for occasional hiccups. So
those are the types of pickups that we get from
drinking alcohol, eating something too fast, et cetera. So hiccups
that only last for under forty eight hours. And what
helps the pop work is both the blend of ingredients
inside the pop that can send us signal back to
your brain stem where our central pattern generator for breathing
(17:22):
is and reset breathing patterns back to normal, but also
the actual mechanism of sucking on a lollipop can help
send that signal as well. It's important to note that
the kind of stimulus or the signals sent by the
lollipop are not strong enough for cases of chronic hiccups,
like for bojaction, for example. You need something much stronger
(17:43):
to continue to help reset breathing patterns back to normal.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I also saw you had you had a great some
great stats on this, which I didn't know about until
I looked at your website, but they said that a
couple of years ago was the third most searched on Google.
The third most searched healthcare term was related to hiccups.
Like this is a big Yeah, it's wild. That's wild
to me. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Everyone experiences hiccups, and I think that it's a more
prevalent problem than many of us are led to believe.
I've found that hiccups are kind of a double edged
sword in a way that if you get occasional hiccups frequently,
or if you've had chronic hiccups, then you can empathize
really well with someone who is also experiencing chronic hiccups
or hiccups that are really upsetting their everyday life. But
(18:31):
if you only get hiccups, maybe like once every two
years for thirty seconds, then you're way less likely to
be empathetic to someone who is going through that. But
I think it's a more prevalent problem than most of
us have been led to believe, especially in these medical spaces.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, for sure, I don't really get the hiccups at on.
My wife, though she gets some, you know, fairly off.
So she's like, I've gone through most of the home remedies,
Like I've done most of the home remedies myself, So
I might have to look into those lollipos. But if
people want to know more, MJ. You run. You're the
CEO of the company. People stumbled on this podcast and
(19:08):
they want to get more information, like what's the website?
Where can they go and find more information out about
all this stuff?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Do you want to know more about chronic hiccups in
our work in that space, you can go to meeter
health dot com et r health dot com. If you
want to look into Hiccapops, the lollipops at stock pickups,
you can go to hiccapops dot com. We're also available
on Amazon Outstanding.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Thank you so much for your time, m JA. I
appreciate it, Thank you, thank you so much. Appreciate that.
So turning the page. And this is a big weekend.
As we said here at the start of this podcast,
as it is meet and Greet weekend today later today,
on this Friday, I will be taking off and flying
(19:52):
from Los Angeles in the Minnesota. I'm excited about This
can be a fun weekend in Minneapolis and Saint Paul
and plan on spending a lot of time in the
great outdoors. Looking forward to that and hanging out. But
the main event is going to be the Malord Meet
and Greet. We've done a podcast on this, we had
(20:13):
spin cycle Regina on not that long ago, but I
wanted to remind you maybe you haven't listened to that
podcast or you've heard me mention the meet and greet.
You've also likely heard random people call up and ask
for information about the Mallard Meet and greet and all that.
So let me give you the details again in case
(20:33):
you are considering going, if you're in the greater Minneapolis
area or reasonable driving distance. So there are some people
that have told me they're planning on flying in and
they want to be part of this, and I'm very
grateful to those people, but I am also realistic that
for most people, if we are geographically desirable and it
(20:55):
fits in your schedule, you may consider coming out and
hang out with us. But let me tell you what
we've got planned. So nobody else has this content where
the only podcast that's talking about the Mallard Meet and greet.
Why would anyone else talk about this? But anyway, So
the Mallard Meet and greet is going to take place
at the Mermaid Inn and Event Center. That's two twenty
(21:18):
Mounds View So two two zero zero, I guess that's
twenty two hundred, twenty two hundred Mounds View Boulevard in
beautiful Moundsview, Minnesota. It is going to be tomorrow, which
is Saturday. Unless you're listening to this podcast at a
different time, it may have already happened. But the event
is scheduled for May twentieth, which, as we are doing
(21:40):
this podcast here on a Friday, that would be tomorrow.
And the reason we are doing the podcast or the show,
I should say, a meet and greet for the show
from Minnesota is just to hang out, to thank you
for supporting the show, and to say hello and introduce myself.
And if you've never been to a Malard meet and greet,
(22:03):
these have spanned the full spectrum. We have had crazy,
drunken parties with all kinds of ridiculousness that has taken place.
We have also had very small intimate meet and greets
you never know, and I've heard some amazing things. The
event has been put together by our friends spin Cycle Regina.
(22:27):
She is the hostess with the mostess. She is the
party planner. It is absolutely free to attend. We're not
charging you to attend. I have been told in recent
days to expect the unexpected. I don't know what that means.
I don't know what that means in the context of
a Mallard meet and greet. I do know that Doc
Mike is driving in from Chicago, so you got the doc.
(22:49):
I have been told that Hollering James will be making
an appearance. The Great Hollering James a legend on the show.
If you don't know Hollering James work. James has been
calling show for a number of years. He's got a
few issues, don't we all. But James is a very passionate,
hardcore Minnesota sportsman and it hasn't gone well for his teams.
(23:15):
They all suck, but doesn't stop James from screaming and shouting.
He loves being part of the show and we love
having Hollering James. The reason he got the nickname Hollering
James is because he was evicted from a house that
he was living in because he became addicted to calling
our show in the middle of the night and screaming
(23:38):
and shouting and yelling and going bonkers, and as a
result of that activity, James ended up getting evicted, so
we called him Hollering James. The name has stayed. I've
never met him, and I look forward to that, but
I really look forward to meeting everybody, and I realize
that this is always an awkward situation. I am a
(24:02):
massive introvert. That's why I went into radio as an extrovert.
I'd be in television, but I'm an introvert. And when
you're an introvert, it's odd in a lot of people
that listen to the show. It's kind of a weird thing.
You don't even know anybody you go to an event
like this. Now there are extroverts that show up, and
those people always are the star of the show to
(24:23):
these type events. But for one day, I'm going to
attempt to be an extrovert, and I will try to
go around the room and try to say hello to everybody,
And there's always that weird thing like do you who
do you approach? How do you approach them? And as
much as I'd like to make this all about me
because my name's in the title Malard Meet and Greet,
(24:44):
I would also like to point out it's really about
just hanging out with like minded people, people who are
also part of the tribe, the Malord militia, people that
have stayed up just like you have and listen to
the live radio show or used to listen a live
show and now listen to the podcast, and so just
kind of hang out and you can talk to other
(25:05):
fans of the show and people that are listeners like yourself,
and you can exchange different ideas. And we've had friendships
that have been born out of these things in the past,
and I always love when people will email me and so,
you know, I met somebody at the Boston meet and greet.
We're still friends. We hang out, you know, golf occasionally,
or we'll go out and hang out and do some
(25:26):
random activity. Some people even don't even they don't actually
meet in person, they become friends and then they're like
Facebook friends. But yeah, whatever floats your boat. Man, I'm
not who am I to judge? Sometimes those are the
best friends in the world, the cyber friends, not the
real friends. So anyway, it's it's gonna be a lot
of fun. There's gonna be a live band there. From
what I understand this, this is crazy. Doc Mike would
(25:51):
like me to be the deacon, So I guess I
will be the deacon if I follow that plan. And
we're not charging you for money. There's going to be
food available. I've never been to the Mermaid in and
event centered. There's a hotel there and if you're interested
in more information, or if you'd like to RSVP and
you want to contact our friends spin Cycle Regina. Now
(26:14):
you don't have to RSVP. It would be more convenient
for us if you did, but I realized you might
be a game time decision and it might not be
something that you're willing to commit to. So either way,
you can email at spin Cycle Regina at gmail dot com.
She is the party planner, so you can let her know.
(26:36):
She wants a rough estimate of how many people are
going to be there. I'm told there'll be a ton
of Viking fans, because why not. But there are people
coming in from Wisconsin. I've been told there's some people
from Iowa docs coming from Illinois. So you never know
who's going to show up. We did one of these
in Boston and there was a guy who's a big
(26:57):
fan of the show who drove from Toronto. We had
a guide drive from Florida with Roscoe the Parrot. David
in winter Park, Florida famously showed up, which was wild
to me, wild and crazy that he did that. And
so you never know. But it doesn't matter whether you
live right around the corner or whether you live thousands
of miles away. The fact that you are taking time
(27:19):
out of your schedule. It is the most valuable thing
you have. The most valuable thing we all have is time,
and you're going to spend some of that with me
and the friends of the show. It does mean a lot,
and so I look forward to meeting you. Hopefully you'll
be there if you can make it be great. We've
got fresh podcasts all weekend. We'll have myself and Danny
(27:40):
g will be united together on the Saturday podcast, and
then on Sunday, of course the mail Bag and I'll
be hanging out in the Twin Cities a couple of
extra days to get a little more flavor and try
to become a master of the Juicy Lucy, a ninja
of the Juicy Lucy the Great Burger which is very
(28:02):
popular and known as the Minnesota Flair. I'm not a
big seafood guest, so I'm gonna eat a lot of
juicy Lucy burgers. Have a wonderful, wonderful day today. Don't forget,
as always, tell a friend about the podcast. Email us
questions for the mail Bag Real fifth Hour at gmail
dot com, Real fifth Hour at gmail dot com, and
(28:23):
we will talk to you tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, have a
wonderful day today. As Danny g would say, later alligator.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Know that's later, Skater, Your outros are as bad as
your basketball takes.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Gotta murder, I gotta go.
Host
Ben Maller
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