August 11, 2023 • 40 mins
T.J. Simers is an award-winning journalist, he wrote the popular Page Two column for years at the Los Angeles Times. He spends a few good minutes with us on the Fifth Hour podcast. T.J. became good friends with Los Angeles icons John Wooden and Vin Scully among others. He’s both respected and loathed for his firebrand style. Simers spent time hosting a sports radio show with his daughter in LA and was a panelist on ESPN’s Around the Horn. T.J. also successfully won a big money lawsuit against the LA Times. T.J. Simers writes multiple columns a week on an assortment of topics available: tjpage2.blog/. You can follow him on Twitter/X @tjsimerspage2. Follow Danny G Radio on Twitter/X @DannyGradio, Follow Big Ben on Twitter/X @BenMaller, and listen to the original "Ben Maller Show," Monday-Friday on 450+ terrestrial Fox Sports Radio affiliates, iHeart stream, and SiriusXM Radio channel 83, 2a-6a ET, 11p-3a PT!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Kubbooms.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
If you thought four hours a day, twelve hundred minutes
a week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants
of the old republic, a sol fashion of fairness. He
treats crackheads in the ghetto gutter the same as the
rich pill poppers in the penthouse.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The Clearinghouse of Hot takes break free for something special.
The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right now in
the air.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Everyway you have stumbled onto the Fifth Hour with Ben
Mahler and Danny G Radio because four hours a night
are not enough. Eight days a week, well, not this week,
eight days a week. I'll explain why coming up momentarily.
But Danny G Radio not with me this weekend. My
(00:51):
man Danny G doing some of the production work on
this podcast, but he is away from the microphones right
now as he is Daddy Gee Radio. Daddy Congratulations to
Danny and his wife on the birth of their son
last weekend. The child was born on Saturday. And rather
(01:12):
than me tell you secondhand information, We're gonna wait till
Danny gets back and he'll give us all the blow
by blow details on the birth of his son. We're
very excited for Danny Mozeltov to him and his wife there.
So congratulations. But we are back in the audio dojo
(01:32):
on this Friday. You're probably wondering where I have been.
Maybe not, Maybe you're happy. I haven't been behind the
microphones the last couple of days, so I cannot explain
what has happened. I did spend the week on the
East Coast, and there's something bubbling up, something percolating that
I am not allowed to discuss. But hopefully soon I'll
(01:55):
be able to tell you what this trip was all about.
Some exciting things coming very soon that I want to
tell you about, but I can't tell you about now.
It's not for public consumption, so stay tuned. It's a cliffhanger.
And today this is someone I wanted to get on
the fifth hour for a while. I've wanted to chat
(02:15):
with this guy. Haven't tracked him down because I haven't
put the effort in. Bad job by me, But we
have uncovered the man, the myth, the legend, one of
the great personalities in sports media over the years. Here
his name is TJ. Simers, a longtime sports columnist at
the Los Angeles Times. He's worked at a bunch of
(02:37):
different newspapers over the years, but he was at the
LA Times for a generation, most famously as the Page
two columnist. You probably saw him on ESPN back in
the day. He was a panelist on the show Around
the Horn in the early days of that show. If
you're in Los Angeles. He hosted a radio program with
his daughter, a morning drive radio show for a number
(02:59):
of years. So's done a little bit of this, a
little bit of that. But one of my favorite columnists,
and I'm not sucking up to them because, unlike so many,
especially in the Los Angeles media, that are lap dogs
for the teams and the players, TJ was an attack
dog and I loved it, and it caused him a
lot of heartache. We'll get into that, I'm sure, but
(03:21):
before we get in to that part of the story,
we must delve into the lawsuit. For the last number
of years, I have seen headlines. You've probably seen these
things too if you pay attention to the sports media world.
And there were these headlines that TJ. Seimer's had won
a lawsuit against the La Times for multiple millions of dollars.
(03:44):
So that was the big headline, TJ Simers wins. So
then a few months later, a judge or someone in
the court system. I assume a judge would say, well, no, yeah,
you don't actually get to keep the money, and then
they'd go back and they'd have an other trial, and
then TJ would win again, and he'd win a lot
(04:05):
of money, and then the same thing would happen. So
it's very difficult to win a court case multiple times,
but TJ was able to do it. So let's start
with that. TJ. Can you walk us through what happened
with this long legal battle that you had you and
your legal team there, TJ against one of the major
(04:28):
institutions of American media, the La Times. Walk me through
what it's been like for you.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Spent ten years of my life in a courtroom and
won the first trial one seven million. Then the judge said,
you know, let me think about this. Yeah you won,
but I'm not going to give you the money. We're
going to go to appeals and see what happened. Went
to appeals, and the appeals people said, yeah, you won,
(04:56):
but let's do another trial to figure out how much
money they should pay you. So we did. We did
another trial and we won fifteen million, and the judge
said on the very last day he said, you know,
instead of giving you the money, I think we're going
to do another trial and this, as you can tell,
I'm just having lots of fun with this. And we
went to a third trial. We won over a million
(05:18):
dollars and they paid off and the time, when I
say the Times paid off by that point, all in Capital,
which owns all these other newspapers register and you know,
just bought They just bought a paper. Well, San Diego Union,
which everybody thinks means they're going to put them out
(05:38):
of business. Well, they paid us over a million. They
still owe us over three million in court costs, which
I get half, but we're still waiting on that to
be adjudicated further. So it was a mess.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, And why did it take so long? What did
did did the law? Did your lawyers explain that it
seems like you won a couple of times? That should
be it? Why did they keep going back?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
The legal system is a lot like the way the
Clippers were won or run. It's just mind body, it's
not a good system that we have. I still can't
tell you why we won, and effectively felt like at
times we lost. I never was fired by the other times,
I just quit because I didn't like the leadership there
(06:24):
and what they were doing. So when we went to court,
it was very simple. Every time the jury agreed with me,
and every time the judge decided to have his own mind,
he would tell the jury, you people are the most
important people in the whole world. You give us your
time and your dedication, and then they would make their
judgment and he would go against them. So it's a
(06:48):
really screwed up world out there, and I feel badly.
I supposedly had the best lawyers in the world out there,
and so did the other side. What happens to these
poor people who get the worst lawyers. Yeah, it's just ugly.
And seeing them sit around the hallways in the courthouse.
It was in La Superior Court. I just felt so
badly for some of these people. We felt we were
(07:11):
getting screwed, and I can only imagine how badly they
take it.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, and you obviously had a great case. You ended
up winning. You beat a major media company three times, right.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Three times?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, you know how hard that is TJ to do that.
I mean, the odds of that.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I know it's hard. The odds of winning probably are
not great, but that's how you know. They never the
Times never proved a single thing where they had suggested
that I had done wrong earlier on. It was it
was just it was a case of two editors who
had their own agenda. They were later fired by the
(07:49):
La Times. But that didn't do me any good, just
a you know, a bad taste in my mouth in
the career.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah. And you, you had been there for a generation.
I mean, you were a rock of the La Times,
as so many of the guys were teaj It's got
to be odd. I mean you look at all the
people you work with there, and good newspaper people who
are no longer newspaper people because the business is just
upside down.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, the business is all about dying right now. I
mean the people at the La Times are trying to
kill the newspaper because it serves them better. They don't
have to pay for printing presses, which they're going to
have to go to Riverside starting in February to print
the paper. They don't have to pay for paper, they
don't have to pay for delivery. It's much better for
(08:36):
them if they can do a newspaper online and train
everybody to do online and then train the advertisers to
pay for it. So people in my profession of my
age right now, they're disappearing.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, it's been crazy the last ten years or so,
it's been nuts. But as far as you as a columnist, teacher,
I always love your approach to writing the page two
column at the Times because you are what I call
a rarity. You are the white whale in LA media
as far as the newspaper guys, because most of the
columnists did not really I don't know that you attacked,
(09:10):
but compared to everyone else, you were an absolute pit bull.
Why do you think TJ that we we did not
get more of your style of writing as a columnist
in LA because a lot of the guys are kind
of cheerleaders and they're not you know, they don't they're
not as critical as you ended up when you were
doing that column all those years. Why do you think
that is?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Man? It's dangerous out there. You know in those days
are online site the very top ad was from the Angels,
so here I would be writing a story about Angriarty
and Angry Arty is paying money to advertise across the
top of our sports page on the online you're you're
(09:54):
messing with powerbrokers. You know, the Dodgers have been cozy
with the power brokers in town. It's you know, look
at the Lakers are owned by in part by Patrick
Suon Jong, who's the publisher of The Times. You you,
if you get tough with people in la in sports,
(10:18):
you're going to pay the price. They have a thing
now where every day the writers are measured but by
what they call conversions. So let's say Dylan or plashke
rights their job is to get new subscribers within an
hour after their column has posted online or within an
hour after their column has been read by somebody. They
(10:41):
are even if they pay a dollar for subscription. That
makes plash g or Dylan look good. For the writers
who don't get conversions, it's like getting the merits and
being the first to be nervous about being laid off.
So then you start to ask the question, well, if
Clash he writes only about the Dodgers and USC and
(11:04):
is he doing it to panders of the editors so
he gets conversions, or is he doing it because he's
a legit columnist and that's what moves him. Right now,
it's tough decisions that everybody has to make to survive.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, it's it's crazy. I have some great TJ stories.
I want to buy you from the past. TJ. So
the first one of the first interviews I did with you,
first time I chatted with you, you were, I believe, the
NFL columnist, if I remember correctly at the times? Is
that correct? Did you cover?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
That's correct? Is correct?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
So this is probably in the nineties. I was doing
the Ben and Dave Show, the local show, and we
had you on and you did not like the questions
we asked. TJ. I remember you. You were so an.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
You've got Ben, Ben, You've gotten better. You have a
little practice doing this, so I appreciate the fact that
you ung in there.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Ahead I did, I did, But it was it was
hilarious because we had you on. I think you were
covering a Charger game or something because there were no
teams in l au were the NFL columnist. But at
that time the Rams had left and the Raiders had left.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Why is there a little laughter in your voice when
you say there were no teams in LA and you
were the NFL column.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
It's great, I mean, but we had you on and
you got really annoyed. I forget exactly. I don't even
remember what we asked you, but you hung up on
us TJ, right in the middle of the interview. It
was to this day, I still fondly remember how annoyed
you were. I'm sure it was Dave. It wasn't me,
but whatever happened, I mean you you hung up, but
it was great. One of the other stories I wanted
(12:29):
to mention was when you first took over page two.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I was out with the Dodgers quite a bit in
those days, and I believe Davey Johnson I think was
the manager at the time, but there was there was
a revolt TJ. And I remember because before every game,
the manager will come out and speak to the writers
in the dugout. I don't know if they still do
that anymore, but they'd go down. Davy would come down
and speak to the writers, and I remember, like the
(12:53):
beat writers were so upset with you because of what
you were writing about the dog for.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
My own paper, from my own paper.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Exactly, they would they would like boycott. They did. They
boycott the manager's interview because you were there and they
wouldn't talk to Davy. If I remember correctly, because you
were they were that upset with you. Do you remember that?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Oh no, that's not the accurate story. The accurate story
is that Davy was so upset with me that he
said he would never talk to me as long as
he was a manager of the Dodgers.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Okay, so he was gonna do he was.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Gonna interview with the other writers somewhere else or one
by one so he didn't have to talk to me.
As I wrote the next day, I hope I can
wait the two weeks before Davy Johnson's fired. And of
course he was, and the Dodgers wouldn't let him pull
his uh vision about not talking to me as long
(13:43):
as I was there, because when they had a scheduled interview,
I would show up and the other writers didn't let me,
turning off the manager and ending their interview sessions. They
certainly weren't pleased with that, which shows you what thunderheads
they were. They're in the newspaper business. They have to do.
They need access. They need to get to a manager.
(14:04):
You know, you can't just run and hide because the
manager is mad at one of the writers and so forth.
You need to hang together. Well, they didn't hang together,
and most of them are out of the business right now.
It's a tough business out there. If you're going to
ask Davy Johnson why his recent decision made the Dodgers
(14:24):
lose all their body language of the writers would lean
towards Davy, you know, like, well, we're not with this guy. Well, hey,
someone's got to ask him the question. Everybody is such
a happy, go lucky jeez. That must have been a
tough ball to catch in right field. All I would
say is then they issue you a glove. Haven't you
(14:45):
learned how to catch the ball? That's what we're there for.
We're there to represent the guy who's laying on the
couch going what the hell is wrong with my team?
That's our job. Yeah, and right now it's tough to do.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I agree with And I want to run this by
a TJ. Because years ago, when MLB started their websites,
and that was like the first team that ran their
own site, had hired their own writers. I had a
guy tell me that this is the future that we
you know, we're you know, it's gonna take a while,
but eventually the fans are gonna love. They're only gonna
(15:20):
want this kind of coverage. You know, that's filtered through
the teams, and here we are. It's been about a
generation since that started, and the teams all run their
own websites. We're at that point. I was raised where
I love the kind of criticism and critique that you
bring TJ. But it seems like the younger generation have
accepted the kool aid, Like, do you think that'll ever
(15:42):
go back?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
No? No, I think that's where we are. I mean,
you can blame a lot of it on ESPN and
look at who they hire to be their the voices
of reason, you know what are some of Pablo Torres
and and it is real something or other. A lot
of young guys who've never spent time in a locker
(16:04):
room and they're telling you, the viewer, what to think
about sports when they having me met the guy. That's
what I always felt as a newspaper people, even as
a columnist, I was out there every day. I wanted
to know what Kevin Brown was like personally, you know,
I wanted to know what Jeff Kent was like personally.
(16:26):
You can't do that now in many respects because they'll
try and lock you out of the clubhouse. I mean,
the first day I was on the job of the Dodgers,
Kevin Brown ordered that I leave the clubhouse and asked
Derek Hall to make sure that no Times reporters could
come into the clubhouse. And Derek Hall told him, we
(16:47):
can't do that, And Derek Hall then had a problem
with Kevin Brown. Derek Hall went on to be the
president of the Diamondbacks, and of course Kevin Brown went
home to pull a gun out his next door neighbor
for throwing leaves in his yard. But it's it's tough
to be out there right now. You don't get as
much access. If the team tells a writer, you know,
(17:09):
someone is not available. Oh okay, thank you, maybe we
can talk tomorrow. What are you talking about? My job
today is they go get that sun a bench and
talk to them. Yeah, that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
No, it's it's changed so much. And that was always
the thing, as you said, you know, if you were
the if you were criticizing somebody, you had to go.
You had to be out in the locker room. You
had to be available if they wanted to confront you
or they had an issue with you. And you're right
today it's much different now speak I'm made sure.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I made sure I was available every day after I
wrote a tough story so that some of the athlete
can say to me, you know, I thought that story sucked.
I A'm fine with that. I'm fine to vi as
the contrary opinion. I might write another column on them
next day and Hammerton even more. But you know that's
that was the way business this whole. As I was
(17:56):
explaining this conversion business at the LA Times, They've discovered
if you write slopping nice stuff about a team, they'll
get conversions. People don't want to feel good about the
Dodgers or feel good about USC here, so they don't
necessarily agree with somebody like myself writing negative stuff unless
the team is really bad. Now, I did write good
(18:19):
things about people, and what people don't realize is I
was closer to most of the owners in town, general managers,
even managers players, you know, the Manny Ramimbers of the world.
We'd only talk to me at times. Kobe and I
had a relationship where I could go out in the
court before a game and I would tell them, you know,
you're the worst three point shooter I've ever seen in
my life. Let me bring my daughter out here and
(18:41):
let her teach you how to shoot three pointers. That
night he set the NBA record for most threes. If
you go at athletes face to face, that's something they understand.
Every day they spend confronting the guy who's trying to
stop them, so they understand a reporter coming and trying
to get information from them who's at least straight. We
have too many people in the in the in the
(19:03):
business who walk up to it, like, let's say, in
the in those days, a Kobe would say, oh, you're
the best, you're the best, and and an act dumb
light when they ask a to tough question, and upstairs,
maybe in the media room, they'd be telling that that's
the worst thing. The guy can't do this, the god
can't do that. He never say it to his face.
I was called Doug Flutie, the Mission Bay Shrimp. That
(19:25):
was true. He was by Mission Bay and San Diego
and he was a.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Shrim and the whole athlete. Nobody believed in me. It's
hard to do that these days, other than social media,
because the media is pretty much in the tank. And
I there's one guy I had. There was an interaction
you had, I happened to be in the Laker locker room.
This is when Dwight Howard was on the team before.
This is the first you loved him. And I'm glad
(19:50):
you brought that because I want to bring this up
because you He was all upset that that day because
of something Stephen A or Skip Bayless had said on ESPN,
and he was really upset and you were a p
analyst on around them, so he he was all upset.
You tried to explain to him. I'm paraphrasing your TJ,
but you tried to explain to him. Listen, there's not
(20:10):
that many people that watched that show, it's okay. And
he was having none of it. Do you remember that day?
He was He was really kind of annoyed by the
whole situation. You tried to tell him, it's okay, it's
not that big a thing, and Dwight was having none
of it.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I remember days when everybody was annoyed with me, So
they get mixed up. To say that Dwight Howard was
annoyed with me one day is a little bit part
betch because it was pretty much every day.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, no, he see, but that day you were very
level headed. You like explained to him, listen, it's a
TV show. There's not that many people watching, you know,
they don't get the greatest ratings or whatever. And he
was like so he could not get over the fact
they had criticized.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Well, no athlete understands criticism. I mean, I don't know
how many athletes have come to me and said, I
thought you were my friend. Well no, I mean I
mentioned Kobe's name again. But when he had the incident
with the young lady in Colorado and everybody was taking sides,
was it sexual assault? What was it? I never said
(21:10):
a word in print because I wasn't there. I don't know.
And one of the very hyph falutant writers at the
only time said to me, how come you're not defending Kobe.
You're his friend. Hey, I stand in front of his locker.
I don't go to lunch with them, and I'm going
to dinner with him and don't go to breakfast. We
don't double date. I may know somebody better. I knew
(21:32):
Kobe probably as well as anybody in town, because at
certain times there we were talking more than most media
people and the player, and I did that with a
lot of athletes. But we're not friends. We're associates at best.
And that's hard for an athlete to understand because they're
not used to criticism. Remember a guy comes up, he's
(21:54):
into minors, he maybe gets signed for college or goes
straight to the NFL. They've all been stroked and puffed up,
and we're the first guys to come along and say,
you know, you're not so hot.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, they don't like get it. And the other TJ
story I want to run by you is every time
I go to an Angels game, I as a member
of the media, and I walk to the pearly gates
right near the foulpole there where the press box is.
I think of you, TJ. Because in my head I
don't even know if this is true or not that
Arti Marino got so upset with you and your criticism
(22:28):
that he punished the entire media by putting the press box.
There's just like makeshift press box which is right near
the right field foul pole. I feel like that's a
tribute to you, TJ. Is that a fair take on
that or no?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I believe it's a fair take. Me and I argue
about this still to this day. Artie and I had
a fabulous relationship. We drank beers up beyond center field
underneath the stadium there. You know, he brought his daughter
on our radio show and everything. But then I wrote
one column criticizing is could already be the problem? And
(23:00):
that was it stop talking to me. And when he
would see me, he would come out of his owner's box,
which was you had to pass the owner's box to
get to the press box, and Alreadie would use the
fouls language, calling me names, and I'd always yell back
at him, Wow, you're so classy, Artie. I saw him
at the Marriott with his sidekick. What is it? I
(23:25):
keep I'm taking a cal Perry, but that's not the name.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
No, but I know who you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, yeah, And he was nice to me and already
walked by, and you know, wow, it just Artie is
the most sensitive, uh big time guy that I I
think I've almost ever dealt with. And I think he
had a military background. Boy oh boy. I mean if
you you were the enemy and looked at him wrong,
(23:53):
God help you. He just uh to this moment, he's
just he's stupid, is what he is. If you're in
Anaheim and you're trying to sell your team, and that
was what it was all about. Billboard guy, you know,
chief baseball Caps cheap beer marketing. You got to sell
yourself and he hasn't done that. That's why I'm anxious
(24:15):
to see how the Otani thing pans out. I commend
him for keeping Otani at this point because I've never understood.
I know, plash people the other time is writing you
gotta trade him? Who the hell are you? You're not
a baseball owner. You don't have any money in the stake.
Already is telling the fans, I'm going to try and
(24:36):
win it. We haven't won it in so many years?
What is baseball about? Every year? Trying to win it?
And you get that close that the Angels are, why
would you purposely hurt yourself? And well, prospects you can
get prospects for the future. How often do prospects not
pan out?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Hardly?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
So that's what that's what to me, but should be
talked about in sports set of everybody you know, Oh
my god, you know, build for the future.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Whose future exactly? And another thing TJ about the I
love that you brought the prospects thing up because this
drives me nuts. I do the show during the week,
and I got people calling up and saying, Oh, you're
trade this guy, that guy, just get prospects in return.
And as you pointed out, and there's a great quote
I stole from Dusty Baker, he said, a prospect is
a suspect until proven otherwise.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Absolutely, But we are in.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
An era where it's like, no, no, you're just build
for the future. Tank. It's it's disgusting. It's the fantasy
sports element. And these people TJ many of them believe
every minor league player is going to turn out to
be the next show Hey o Tani or Mike Trout.
They are convinced of it. There is this this neurosis
(25:49):
among many fans, and it didn't used to be like that.
It's gotten really bad over the last twenty years or so. Great.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
That's a great point, by the way, I never thought
of that, the fantasy aspect of it, but that's a
great point right now. The first of all, people are
too wrapped up into their sports teams in many cases,
and most of the people you deal with in your background,
a lot of them are just work you know. I mean,
your audience is going to be over the top on
(26:16):
and they know stats, and they know this and that,
and you know, in the third inning of the nights
when the do comes out, they know all these stats
and the crazy stuff instead of just enjoying the sport
and making level headed decisions. Oh, Tani may be the
best baseball player of our lifetime. Why what hold on
(26:37):
over five more minutes? That's all hold on to them.
I mean, how many chances do you get to have
the baseball best baseball player in your lifetime in your
own home area. So I commend already and at least
trying to do that. I want to see if he
makes a run for him. And I mean no one
in the world believes that already can and sign it
TONI including me, But I'd like to to see him try,
(27:01):
because that's what my owner should do if I'm following
a baseball team.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, and I've heard that he thinks that from people
I know out there. He thinks he's actually gonna be
able to keep him because he likes playing there.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And I'll oh, don't start telling me, Ben what you've heard.
You know who you're talking to, unless you're talking to Artie.
I don't know, y, no, no, no, I don't throw
that out there. Now you're trying to play I've learned
the word. You're trying to play troll. Troll everybody.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
No, I'm just telling you that's right.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Your atrol, your troll.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Just admit it. Ben, I'm a big trull. But the
one thing about Antani that I think is going to
be the wave of the future because for a long
time baseball teams would not allow guys to pitch and hit.
It was very rare. You can only do one, you
can't do both. They weren't just talent well, they wouldn't
even give him the chance. Like I saw Dave Winfield
(27:51):
say he could have done it back in the seventies
with the the padres or whatever when he was coming
out of college. But because of Otani, and there's you
see these guys in college. You watched the College World Series.
There's guys that are this year for LSU. You saw
a guy that was a great pitcher could hit the
whole thing. I believe that Otani's gonna have a Tiger
Woods like effect TJ that we're gonna see guys in
(28:14):
the future be given the opportunity. They probably won't be
as good as Otani, but to be given the opportunity
to do both. Do you buy that or do you
not buy that?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Well, they're not going to be given that opportunity at
the major league level until after they've done it for
some time at another level. So that's one of the
built in problems. Otani was in a rare case because
he basically was almost implying that that was part of
his deal to come to the Angels. How many people
get that kind of leverage, you know, Japanese player every
(28:44):
once in a while coming over here, but by and large,
they got so much control over you and your property
to them that unless you can prove it at another level,
and you've got to work your way up. I don't
think it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I got you. I think I think it will. I'll
I think it will happen. There'll be some guys get
an opportunity. You did a radio show for a while,
They're TJ back in the day with your daughter, a
very popular show in LA and I love when you
did that because you were always like the newspaper guy
and all that and came a broadcaster. Did you inlight that?
Was it hard? Was it easy? Was it a layup
(29:19):
line or was it difficult for you.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It was very, very difficult because we were on from
six to nine. We had no six to nine in
the morning, so I'd be covering a Dodger game or
Laker game the night before and wouldn't get home until
after midnight. That's probably what made me so old. I
did it with my daughter, who had absolutely no experience.
(29:42):
But the Cimer's philosophy was take a risk in life.
So she quit her accounting job and did the radio.
But I told her on the air and off the air,
I didn't think she worked as hard ad as you
needed to do to be good in LA So that
ruffled our relationship for a little while. I had Fred
Rogan was on with us, and Fred it was a
(30:03):
tough guy to deal with. As he would tell you,
I was a tough guy to deal with. We didn't
always hit it off so and we just needed more experience.
We needed you around. Then. We needed somebody who's done
this in their entire life, who understand. I didn't want
to call up different people and ask him to come
on the show, and you're supposed to have producers for that.
(30:25):
I actually enjoyed My daughter and I did a Saturday
show or Sunday Sunday Morning show. We would have Jerry
Buss and Jeanie Buss on together. We had John Wooden
and his daughter nan on together. That's when I had
Arti Marino and his daughter on the air together. That
was more fun, more relaxed, and I would do interviews
(30:46):
for sometimes forty minutes instead of the typical radio stuff.
But it was a lifetime experience, but I wouldn't necessarily
sign up to do it again.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, and you mentioned John wood and you became good
friends with Coach Well, I.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Did one of the one of the lovely, unbelievable things
that happened in my life. I mean, he was just
and he liked it. Because I was here reverend with him.
I would only call him the names that he hated.
You know, he hated the Wizard of Westwards. So when
we did a show at an Okaia Theater, I started
(31:24):
off by saying, we've got the Wizard of Westward. Did
I told you not to say that? And he was serious,
he was mad. So I said, okay, we'll call you
Saint John. And he hated being revered like that, just
hated it. He people would literally come to him and
Genia flect when they named the post office after him
(31:44):
in Tarzana. I was with him before the event started
and I said, give me a break here. Now, you
tell me you never took a drink your whole life.
And he said nope, ever, and then all goes well.
One I went to a fraternity party and I said, well,
that was during prohibition. You broke the law. And then
(32:04):
any name but Federal post Office after you a fallin.
And he loved that. He loved that kind of stuff.
He even admitted that he gambled once on a horse
race and the horse was named Gary, Indiana, and he won.
The horse was like twenty five to one and he
won the bet. He liked talking about things that made
(32:28):
him normal. That's why they did this. If you let
me just ran for one minute here, Ben, I we did,
you know, shows at the Nokia Theater when I was
called Nicky. I don't know what it's now, but we
did Jerry Weston's our Dinner Speaker, and we had John
Wooden and Ben Scully on stage together and me it
(32:52):
was live TV. I didn't wouldn't put anything in my ear.
I told him, I'll go to commercial when I feel
like it. My family was worried that the headline next
day day was going to read cybers kills Wooden or
killed Scully because they keel over and they were unbelievable.
The only reason they agreed to do the show was
(33:12):
if I promised to be irreverend towards them. So I
was the irreverend towards them. And the next day I
got killed in email for people because I wasn't handling
them with reverence and respect. It just frightened me. You know,
we did this great thing. We raised a million dollars
for Mattel's Children Hospital at u C l A and
(33:36):
City of Hope and the Children's Hospital in LA. And
Scully did not want any tape of that show safe.
He wanted he wanted made me promise I would not
take the show. The show ended and he came to
me right away and he said, we got to get
a tape of that. That was so much fun, that
was so great. Scully had the time of his life.
(33:57):
And he had seen wood And earlier in the week
who looked like he was. He was sitting in a
wheelchair at a coliseum event, and he said to me,
how are we going to do this? You know, in
his nice way of saying that I had no experience.
He thought he was going to have to carry the
whole show. We got there and we brought a kid
up on stage who had cancer in his leg and
(34:20):
wouldn't absolutely lit up. He got tried to get out
of the wheelchair down at his knees to teach the
kid how to put his shoes and socks on like
he did as basketball players. He was having a moment
where he was just pure enjoyment, and to me, it
was the greatest thing I can ever say about Scully.
(34:40):
Scully noticed it and took a step back. It's now
the John Wooden Show, and he didn't need the spotlight,
and he deferred to as many times as he could
because he couldn't see what was happening with what and
he wheeled Wooden out to the center of the stage.
At the end of the show. It was just it
(35:00):
was just great stuff.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, And you were friends with both those guys. And
I knew Vin a little bit from the Dodger stuff
that I had done, and he was he was. I
remember one time I asked Vin, I thought when I
did Dodger talk. At first, I thought, well, Vin's probably
listening on the way home from you know.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
He listened to show tunes exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
That's what he told me. I was so devastated. It's
like I asked him one time, I said, hey, what
do you listen to? You listen to It was very cool.
He's like, yeah, listen. Yeah, he listens to the show
tunes on the way the way home. But uh, yeah,
it's great. And the lesson I guess of that story, TJ,
is you treated those guys just like you treat everyone else.
You didn't kiss up, you didn't genue flect, and they
they loved it. They wanted more, right.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
That was the key they did. They lived And you know,
with Scully, I made sure that I went to the
bathroom in Dodger Stadium before every game because Scully went.
So we would stand in the arnals next to each
other and I would get a story from Scully. He
told a Rocky Bridges story that just had me laughing
so hard that I was afraid that I pissed on
(36:01):
scully shoes, And you know, I looked down to make
sure that I hadn't caused a problem. But that's why
I went to the bathroom before every game, because I
would run into Scully and no one else would be
in there, so be just the two of us had
chance to talk. He was so good, and then you know,
we did another show. We did one on Kofax and
Torri at the Nokia Theater and I had never known Kofax.
(36:24):
I had a four hour breakfast with him the day before.
It was my first meeting, and he said, do you
ask me any question you want and I'll give you
an answer. I'm so tired of all these people saying
things about me. Let's come clean with everything. Oh okay, fine.
Asked the first four questions that I got a yes, no,
or maybe out of them. He froze the great sandy
(36:44):
Kofax pros so I said, the hell with this. I said,
you know what they tell me you were a great picture.
Henry Aaron owned you, for God's sakes, get three seventy
eight off you. He could do anything he wanted. And
that opened it up. Kofax started to tell stories, beginning
one about Aaron that made him just so human. It was.
(37:07):
It was another just fantastic moment that you could see
behind the persana, what really cool guy he is.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
That's great. Uh you I've taken a lot of your time.
You write a you're doing a blog now. Actually a
guy who we both know, Jay Christiansen, who used to
work at the La Times. Yeah, great guy, he's a
friend of mine. I love Jay. He sent me your column.
That's how I found you. You're you're doing a blog, right,
You're a couple times a week, I guess, I think.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Uh, he just did one a few minutes ago, and um,
so excited to read in the La Times tomorrow how
the women's soccer team did not not a word there
today and you know you got to do everything by
a three pm deadline or you don't make it in
the La Times and the effort to kill the paper. Yeah,
so I'm poking fun at the Times again.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
No, but I love it. And so how can people
find out? I'll put it in the description here, But
how can people? We'll find a TJ they want to
read because you you're doing the same stuff you've always done.
It's just just on your own platform there, So how
can they?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yes, it's TJ Page two, TJ t A g E.
The number two dot blog Okay, and you just go
to that, you just call that up and uh, you know,
I usually put hope fun at the La Times. And
by the way, I'm not angry at the La Times.
(38:27):
I mean they've ruined so many great journalists career because
of just what's happening in newspapers. And I did my
ordeal in courtroom. I would love to work for the
La Times. I even volunteered to Patrick soon Jung to
work for free to of course, you need to have
to donate two hundred thousand dollars the Mattel Children's Hospital UCLA,
(38:49):
but I made that offer. I love newspapers still. I
just wish I could find one in the morning.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, well, that's see, that's the problem to you. If
they Times hired you again, people might actually read it,
and then that would be a problem.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I don't know if i'd get conversions. Man, you know
you touch and go to see if I could get
any conversions.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I got you. Well, I've loved talking to TJ. Thank
you so much for your time. I appreciate it. And
I do read your column when I check it out
as often as they can.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Don't go, don't do it. Don't it's so good for
about twenty minutes, and now I get starting to blow
smoke again. No, I tell you do that with your
guests on because you you know, you're just that's your
nice you know, host of mentality. That's what it is.
I said, I'll hang up and you'll probably you know.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I'll kill you. No, no, yeah, I know that. I
seriously I wish you're one of the.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Best at doing that. And that's good. That's that's high
praise is coming for me.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Well, thank you. I appreciate it. No, no, I always
tell I said, listen, I want more people I love.
I'm not sucking up to you. I've told I've told
you in the past.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
You are to don't don't hang up on you again.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
All right, all right, I have a great day. Thank you, TJ.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Take care.
Kubbooms.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
If you thought four hours a day, twelve hundred minutes
a week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants
of the old republic, a sol fashion of fairness. He
treats crackheads in the ghetto gutter the same as the
rich pill poppers in the penthouse.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The Clearinghouse of Hot takes break free for something special.
The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right now in
the air.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Everyway you have stumbled onto the Fifth Hour with Ben
Mahler and Danny G Radio because four hours a night
are not enough. Eight days a week, well, not this week,
eight days a week. I'll explain why coming up momentarily.
But Danny G Radio not with me this weekend. My
(00:51):
man Danny G doing some of the production work on
this podcast, but he is away from the microphones right
now as he is Daddy Gee Radio. Daddy Congratulations to
Danny and his wife on the birth of their son
last weekend. The child was born on Saturday. And rather
(01:12):
than me tell you secondhand information, We're gonna wait till
Danny gets back and he'll give us all the blow
by blow details on the birth of his son. We're
very excited for Danny Mozeltov to him and his wife there.
So congratulations. But we are back in the audio dojo
(01:32):
on this Friday. You're probably wondering where I have been.
Maybe not, Maybe you're happy. I haven't been behind the
microphones the last couple of days, so I cannot explain
what has happened. I did spend the week on the
East Coast, and there's something bubbling up, something percolating that
I am not allowed to discuss. But hopefully soon I'll
(01:55):
be able to tell you what this trip was all about.
Some exciting things coming very soon that I want to
tell you about, but I can't tell you about now.
It's not for public consumption, so stay tuned. It's a cliffhanger.
And today this is someone I wanted to get on
the fifth hour for a while. I've wanted to chat
(02:15):
with this guy. Haven't tracked him down because I haven't
put the effort in. Bad job by me, But we
have uncovered the man, the myth, the legend, one of
the great personalities in sports media over the years. Here
his name is TJ. Simers, a longtime sports columnist at
the Los Angeles Times. He's worked at a bunch of
(02:37):
different newspapers over the years, but he was at the
LA Times for a generation, most famously as the Page
two columnist. You probably saw him on ESPN back in
the day. He was a panelist on the show Around
the Horn in the early days of that show. If
you're in Los Angeles. He hosted a radio program with
his daughter, a morning drive radio show for a number
(02:59):
of years. So's done a little bit of this, a
little bit of that. But one of my favorite columnists,
and I'm not sucking up to them because, unlike so many,
especially in the Los Angeles media, that are lap dogs
for the teams and the players, TJ was an attack
dog and I loved it, and it caused him a
lot of heartache. We'll get into that, I'm sure, but
(03:21):
before we get in to that part of the story,
we must delve into the lawsuit. For the last number
of years, I have seen headlines. You've probably seen these
things too if you pay attention to the sports media world.
And there were these headlines that TJ. Seimer's had won
a lawsuit against the La Times for multiple millions of dollars.
(03:44):
So that was the big headline, TJ Simers wins. So
then a few months later, a judge or someone in
the court system. I assume a judge would say, well, no, yeah,
you don't actually get to keep the money, and then
they'd go back and they'd have an other trial, and
then TJ would win again, and he'd win a lot
(04:05):
of money, and then the same thing would happen. So
it's very difficult to win a court case multiple times,
but TJ was able to do it. So let's start
with that. TJ. Can you walk us through what happened
with this long legal battle that you had you and
your legal team there, TJ against one of the major
(04:28):
institutions of American media, the La Times. Walk me through
what it's been like for you.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Spent ten years of my life in a courtroom and
won the first trial one seven million. Then the judge said,
you know, let me think about this. Yeah you won,
but I'm not going to give you the money. We're
going to go to appeals and see what happened. Went
to appeals, and the appeals people said, yeah, you won,
(04:56):
but let's do another trial to figure out how much
money they should pay you. So we did. We did
another trial and we won fifteen million, and the judge
said on the very last day he said, you know,
instead of giving you the money, I think we're going
to do another trial and this, as you can tell,
I'm just having lots of fun with this. And we
went to a third trial. We won over a million
(05:18):
dollars and they paid off and the time, when I
say the Times paid off by that point, all in Capital,
which owns all these other newspapers register and you know,
just bought They just bought a paper. Well, San Diego Union,
which everybody thinks means they're going to put them out
(05:38):
of business. Well, they paid us over a million. They
still owe us over three million in court costs, which
I get half, but we're still waiting on that to
be adjudicated further. So it was a mess.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, And why did it take so long? What did
did did the law? Did your lawyers explain that it
seems like you won a couple of times? That should
be it? Why did they keep going back?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
The legal system is a lot like the way the
Clippers were won or run. It's just mind body, it's
not a good system that we have. I still can't
tell you why we won, and effectively felt like at
times we lost. I never was fired by the other times,
I just quit because I didn't like the leadership there
(06:24):
and what they were doing. So when we went to court,
it was very simple. Every time the jury agreed with me,
and every time the judge decided to have his own mind,
he would tell the jury, you people are the most
important people in the whole world. You give us your
time and your dedication, and then they would make their
judgment and he would go against them. So it's a
(06:48):
really screwed up world out there, and I feel badly.
I supposedly had the best lawyers in the world out there,
and so did the other side. What happens to these
poor people who get the worst lawyers. Yeah, it's just ugly.
And seeing them sit around the hallways in the courthouse.
It was in La Superior Court. I just felt so
badly for some of these people. We felt we were
(07:11):
getting screwed, and I can only imagine how badly they
take it.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, and you obviously had a great case. You ended
up winning. You beat a major media company three times, right.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Three times?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, you know how hard that is TJ to do that.
I mean, the odds of that.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I know it's hard. The odds of winning probably are
not great, but that's how you know. They never the
Times never proved a single thing where they had suggested
that I had done wrong earlier on. It was it
was just it was a case of two editors who
had their own agenda. They were later fired by the
(07:49):
La Times. But that didn't do me any good, just
a you know, a bad taste in my mouth in
the career.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah. And you, you had been there for a generation.
I mean, you were a rock of the La Times,
as so many of the guys were teaj It's got
to be odd. I mean you look at all the
people you work with there, and good newspaper people who
are no longer newspaper people because the business is just
upside down.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, the business is all about dying right now. I
mean the people at the La Times are trying to
kill the newspaper because it serves them better. They don't
have to pay for printing presses, which they're going to
have to go to Riverside starting in February to print
the paper. They don't have to pay for paper, they
don't have to pay for delivery. It's much better for
(08:36):
them if they can do a newspaper online and train
everybody to do online and then train the advertisers to
pay for it. So people in my profession of my
age right now, they're disappearing.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, it's been crazy the last ten years or so,
it's been nuts. But as far as you as a columnist, teacher,
I always love your approach to writing the page two
column at the Times because you are what I call
a rarity. You are the white whale in LA media
as far as the newspaper guys, because most of the
columnists did not really I don't know that you attacked,
(09:10):
but compared to everyone else, you were an absolute pit bull.
Why do you think TJ that we we did not
get more of your style of writing as a columnist
in LA because a lot of the guys are kind
of cheerleaders and they're not you know, they don't they're
not as critical as you ended up when you were
doing that column all those years. Why do you think
that is?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Man? It's dangerous out there. You know in those days
are online site the very top ad was from the Angels,
so here I would be writing a story about Angriarty
and Angry Arty is paying money to advertise across the
top of our sports page on the online you're you're
(09:54):
messing with powerbrokers. You know, the Dodgers have been cozy
with the power brokers in town. It's you know, look
at the Lakers are owned by in part by Patrick
Suon Jong, who's the publisher of The Times. You you,
if you get tough with people in la in sports,
(10:18):
you're going to pay the price. They have a thing
now where every day the writers are measured but by
what they call conversions. So let's say Dylan or plashke
rights their job is to get new subscribers within an
hour after their column has posted online or within an
hour after their column has been read by somebody. They
(10:41):
are even if they pay a dollar for subscription. That
makes plash g or Dylan look good. For the writers
who don't get conversions, it's like getting the merits and
being the first to be nervous about being laid off.
So then you start to ask the question, well, if
Clash he writes only about the Dodgers and USC and
(11:04):
is he doing it to panders of the editors so
he gets conversions, or is he doing it because he's
a legit columnist and that's what moves him. Right now,
it's tough decisions that everybody has to make to survive.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, it's it's crazy. I have some great TJ stories.
I want to buy you from the past. TJ. So
the first one of the first interviews I did with you,
first time I chatted with you, you were, I believe, the
NFL columnist, if I remember correctly at the times? Is
that correct? Did you cover?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
That's correct? Is correct?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
So this is probably in the nineties. I was doing
the Ben and Dave Show, the local show, and we
had you on and you did not like the questions
we asked. TJ. I remember you. You were so an.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
You've got Ben, Ben, You've gotten better. You have a
little practice doing this, so I appreciate the fact that
you ung in there.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Ahead I did, I did, But it was it was
hilarious because we had you on. I think you were
covering a Charger game or something because there were no
teams in l au were the NFL columnist. But at
that time the Rams had left and the Raiders had left.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Why is there a little laughter in your voice when
you say there were no teams in LA and you
were the NFL column.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
It's great, I mean, but we had you on and
you got really annoyed. I forget exactly. I don't even
remember what we asked you, but you hung up on
us TJ, right in the middle of the interview. It
was to this day, I still fondly remember how annoyed
you were. I'm sure it was Dave. It wasn't me,
but whatever happened, I mean you you hung up, but
it was great. One of the other stories I wanted
(12:29):
to mention was when you first took over page two.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I was out with the Dodgers quite a bit in
those days, and I believe Davey Johnson I think was
the manager at the time, but there was there was
a revolt TJ. And I remember because before every game,
the manager will come out and speak to the writers
in the dugout. I don't know if they still do
that anymore, but they'd go down. Davy would come down
and speak to the writers, and I remember, like the
(12:53):
beat writers were so upset with you because of what
you were writing about the dog for.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
My own paper, from my own paper.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Exactly, they would they would like boycott. They did. They
boycott the manager's interview because you were there and they
wouldn't talk to Davy. If I remember correctly, because you
were they were that upset with you. Do you remember that?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Oh no, that's not the accurate story. The accurate story
is that Davy was so upset with me that he
said he would never talk to me as long as
he was a manager of the Dodgers.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Okay, so he was gonna do he was.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Gonna interview with the other writers somewhere else or one
by one so he didn't have to talk to me.
As I wrote the next day, I hope I can
wait the two weeks before Davy Johnson's fired. And of
course he was, and the Dodgers wouldn't let him pull
his uh vision about not talking to me as long
(13:43):
as I was there, because when they had a scheduled interview,
I would show up and the other writers didn't let me,
turning off the manager and ending their interview sessions. They
certainly weren't pleased with that, which shows you what thunderheads
they were. They're in the newspaper business. They have to do.
They need access. They need to get to a manager.
(14:04):
You know, you can't just run and hide because the
manager is mad at one of the writers and so forth.
You need to hang together. Well, they didn't hang together,
and most of them are out of the business right now.
It's a tough business out there. If you're going to
ask Davy Johnson why his recent decision made the Dodgers
(14:24):
lose all their body language of the writers would lean
towards Davy, you know, like, well, we're not with this guy. Well, hey,
someone's got to ask him the question. Everybody is such
a happy, go lucky jeez. That must have been a
tough ball to catch in right field. All I would
say is then they issue you a glove. Haven't you
(14:45):
learned how to catch the ball? That's what we're there for.
We're there to represent the guy who's laying on the
couch going what the hell is wrong with my team?
That's our job. Yeah, and right now it's tough to do.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I agree with And I want to run this by
a TJ. Because years ago, when MLB started their websites,
and that was like the first team that ran their
own site, had hired their own writers. I had a
guy tell me that this is the future that we
you know, we're you know, it's gonna take a while,
but eventually the fans are gonna love. They're only gonna
(15:20):
want this kind of coverage. You know, that's filtered through
the teams, and here we are. It's been about a
generation since that started, and the teams all run their
own websites. We're at that point. I was raised where
I love the kind of criticism and critique that you
bring TJ. But it seems like the younger generation have
accepted the kool aid, Like, do you think that'll ever
(15:42):
go back?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
No? No, I think that's where we are. I mean,
you can blame a lot of it on ESPN and
look at who they hire to be their the voices
of reason, you know what are some of Pablo Torres
and and it is real something or other. A lot
of young guys who've never spent time in a locker
(16:04):
room and they're telling you, the viewer, what to think
about sports when they having me met the guy. That's
what I always felt as a newspaper people, even as
a columnist, I was out there every day. I wanted
to know what Kevin Brown was like personally, you know,
I wanted to know what Jeff Kent was like personally.
(16:26):
You can't do that now in many respects because they'll
try and lock you out of the clubhouse. I mean,
the first day I was on the job of the Dodgers,
Kevin Brown ordered that I leave the clubhouse and asked
Derek Hall to make sure that no Times reporters could
come into the clubhouse. And Derek Hall told him, we
(16:47):
can't do that, And Derek Hall then had a problem
with Kevin Brown. Derek Hall went on to be the
president of the Diamondbacks, and of course Kevin Brown went
home to pull a gun out his next door neighbor
for throwing leaves in his yard. But it's it's tough
to be out there right now. You don't get as
much access. If the team tells a writer, you know,
(17:09):
someone is not available. Oh okay, thank you, maybe we
can talk tomorrow. What are you talking about? My job
today is they go get that sun a bench and
talk to them. Yeah, that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
No, it's it's changed so much. And that was always
the thing, as you said, you know, if you were
the if you were criticizing somebody, you had to go.
You had to be out in the locker room. You
had to be available if they wanted to confront you
or they had an issue with you. And you're right
today it's much different now speak I'm made sure.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I made sure I was available every day after I
wrote a tough story so that some of the athlete
can say to me, you know, I thought that story sucked.
I A'm fine with that. I'm fine to vi as
the contrary opinion. I might write another column on them
next day and Hammerton even more. But you know that's
that was the way business this whole. As I was
(17:56):
explaining this conversion business at the LA Times, They've discovered
if you write slopping nice stuff about a team, they'll
get conversions. People don't want to feel good about the
Dodgers or feel good about USC here, so they don't
necessarily agree with somebody like myself writing negative stuff unless
the team is really bad. Now, I did write good
(18:19):
things about people, and what people don't realize is I
was closer to most of the owners in town, general managers,
even managers players, you know, the Manny Ramimbers of the world.
We'd only talk to me at times. Kobe and I
had a relationship where I could go out in the
court before a game and I would tell them, you know,
you're the worst three point shooter I've ever seen in
my life. Let me bring my daughter out here and
(18:41):
let her teach you how to shoot three pointers. That
night he set the NBA record for most threes. If
you go at athletes face to face, that's something they understand.
Every day they spend confronting the guy who's trying to
stop them, so they understand a reporter coming and trying
to get information from them who's at least straight. We
have too many people in the in the in the
(19:03):
business who walk up to it, like, let's say, in
the in those days, a Kobe would say, oh, you're
the best, you're the best, and and an act dumb
light when they ask a to tough question, and upstairs,
maybe in the media room, they'd be telling that that's
the worst thing. The guy can't do this, the god
can't do that. He never say it to his face.
I was called Doug Flutie, the Mission Bay Shrimp. That
(19:25):
was true. He was by Mission Bay and San Diego
and he was a.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Shrim and the whole athlete. Nobody believed in me. It's
hard to do that these days, other than social media,
because the media is pretty much in the tank. And
I there's one guy I had. There was an interaction
you had, I happened to be in the Laker locker room.
This is when Dwight Howard was on the team before.
This is the first you loved him. And I'm glad
(19:50):
you brought that because I want to bring this up
because you He was all upset that that day because
of something Stephen A or Skip Bayless had said on ESPN,
and he was really upset and you were a p
analyst on around them, so he he was all upset.
You tried to explain to him. I'm paraphrasing your TJ,
but you tried to explain to him. Listen, there's not
(20:10):
that many people that watched that show, it's okay. And
he was having none of it. Do you remember that day?
He was He was really kind of annoyed by the
whole situation. You tried to tell him, it's okay, it's
not that big a thing, and Dwight was having none
of it.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I remember days when everybody was annoyed with me, So
they get mixed up. To say that Dwight Howard was
annoyed with me one day is a little bit part
betch because it was pretty much every day.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, no, he see, but that day you were very
level headed. You like explained to him, listen, it's a
TV show. There's not that many people watching, you know,
they don't get the greatest ratings or whatever. And he
was like so he could not get over the fact
they had criticized.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Well, no athlete understands criticism. I mean, I don't know
how many athletes have come to me and said, I
thought you were my friend. Well no, I mean I
mentioned Kobe's name again. But when he had the incident
with the young lady in Colorado and everybody was taking sides,
was it sexual assault? What was it? I never said
(21:10):
a word in print because I wasn't there. I don't know.
And one of the very hyph falutant writers at the
only time said to me, how come you're not defending Kobe.
You're his friend. Hey, I stand in front of his locker.
I don't go to lunch with them, and I'm going
to dinner with him and don't go to breakfast. We
don't double date. I may know somebody better. I knew
(21:32):
Kobe probably as well as anybody in town, because at
certain times there we were talking more than most media
people and the player, and I did that with a
lot of athletes. But we're not friends. We're associates at best.
And that's hard for an athlete to understand because they're
not used to criticism. Remember a guy comes up, he's
(21:54):
into minors, he maybe gets signed for college or goes
straight to the NFL. They've all been stroked and puffed up,
and we're the first guys to come along and say,
you know, you're not so hot.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, they don't like get it. And the other TJ
story I want to run by you is every time
I go to an Angels game, I as a member
of the media, and I walk to the pearly gates
right near the foulpole there where the press box is.
I think of you, TJ. Because in my head I
don't even know if this is true or not that
Arti Marino got so upset with you and your criticism
(22:28):
that he punished the entire media by putting the press box.
There's just like makeshift press box which is right near
the right field foul pole. I feel like that's a
tribute to you, TJ. Is that a fair take on
that or no?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I believe it's a fair take. Me and I argue
about this still to this day. Artie and I had
a fabulous relationship. We drank beers up beyond center field
underneath the stadium there. You know, he brought his daughter
on our radio show and everything. But then I wrote
one column criticizing is could already be the problem? And
(23:00):
that was it stop talking to me. And when he
would see me, he would come out of his owner's box,
which was you had to pass the owner's box to
get to the press box, and Alreadie would use the
fouls language, calling me names, and I'd always yell back
at him, Wow, you're so classy, Artie. I saw him
at the Marriott with his sidekick. What is it? I
(23:25):
keep I'm taking a cal Perry, but that's not the name.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
No, but I know who you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, yeah, And he was nice to me and already
walked by, and you know, wow, it just Artie is
the most sensitive, uh big time guy that I I
think I've almost ever dealt with. And I think he
had a military background. Boy oh boy. I mean if
you you were the enemy and looked at him wrong,
(23:53):
God help you. He just uh to this moment, he's
just he's stupid, is what he is. If you're in
Anaheim and you're trying to sell your team, and that
was what it was all about. Billboard guy, you know,
chief baseball Caps cheap beer marketing. You got to sell
yourself and he hasn't done that. That's why I'm anxious
(24:15):
to see how the Otani thing pans out. I commend
him for keeping Otani at this point because I've never understood.
I know, plash people the other time is writing you
gotta trade him? Who the hell are you? You're not
a baseball owner. You don't have any money in the stake.
Already is telling the fans, I'm going to try and
(24:36):
win it. We haven't won it in so many years?
What is baseball about? Every year? Trying to win it?
And you get that close that the Angels are, why
would you purposely hurt yourself? And well, prospects you can
get prospects for the future. How often do prospects not
pan out?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Hardly?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
So that's what that's what to me, but should be
talked about in sports set of everybody you know, Oh
my god, you know, build for the future.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Whose future exactly? And another thing TJ about the I
love that you brought the prospects thing up because this
drives me nuts. I do the show during the week,
and I got people calling up and saying, Oh, you're
trade this guy, that guy, just get prospects in return.
And as you pointed out, and there's a great quote
I stole from Dusty Baker, he said, a prospect is
a suspect until proven otherwise.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Absolutely, But we are in.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
An era where it's like, no, no, you're just build
for the future. Tank. It's it's disgusting. It's the fantasy
sports element. And these people TJ many of them believe
every minor league player is going to turn out to
be the next show Hey o Tani or Mike Trout.
They are convinced of it. There is this this neurosis
(25:49):
among many fans, and it didn't used to be like that.
It's gotten really bad over the last twenty years or so. Great.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
That's a great point, by the way, I never thought
of that, the fantasy aspect of it, but that's a
great point right now. The first of all, people are
too wrapped up into their sports teams in many cases,
and most of the people you deal with in your background,
a lot of them are just work you know. I mean,
your audience is going to be over the top on
(26:16):
and they know stats, and they know this and that,
and you know, in the third inning of the nights
when the do comes out, they know all these stats
and the crazy stuff instead of just enjoying the sport
and making level headed decisions. Oh, Tani may be the
best baseball player of our lifetime. Why what hold on
(26:37):
over five more minutes? That's all hold on to them.
I mean, how many chances do you get to have
the baseball best baseball player in your lifetime in your
own home area. So I commend already and at least
trying to do that. I want to see if he
makes a run for him. And I mean no one
in the world believes that already can and sign it
TONI including me, But I'd like to to see him try,
(27:01):
because that's what my owner should do if I'm following
a baseball team.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, and I've heard that he thinks that from people
I know out there. He thinks he's actually gonna be
able to keep him because he likes playing there.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And I'll oh, don't start telling me, Ben what you've heard.
You know who you're talking to, unless you're talking to Artie.
I don't know, y, no, no, no, I don't throw
that out there. Now you're trying to play I've learned
the word. You're trying to play troll. Troll everybody.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
No, I'm just telling you that's right.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Your atrol, your troll.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Just admit it. Ben, I'm a big trull. But the
one thing about Antani that I think is going to
be the wave of the future because for a long
time baseball teams would not allow guys to pitch and hit.
It was very rare. You can only do one, you
can't do both. They weren't just talent well, they wouldn't
even give him the chance. Like I saw Dave Winfield
(27:51):
say he could have done it back in the seventies
with the the padres or whatever when he was coming
out of college. But because of Otani, and there's you
see these guys in college. You watched the College World Series.
There's guys that are this year for LSU. You saw
a guy that was a great pitcher could hit the
whole thing. I believe that Otani's gonna have a Tiger
Woods like effect TJ that we're gonna see guys in
(28:14):
the future be given the opportunity. They probably won't be
as good as Otani, but to be given the opportunity
to do both. Do you buy that or do you
not buy that?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Well, they're not going to be given that opportunity at
the major league level until after they've done it for
some time at another level. So that's one of the
built in problems. Otani was in a rare case because
he basically was almost implying that that was part of
his deal to come to the Angels. How many people
get that kind of leverage, you know, Japanese player every
(28:44):
once in a while coming over here, but by and large,
they got so much control over you and your property
to them that unless you can prove it at another level,
and you've got to work your way up. I don't
think it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I got you. I think I think it will. I'll
I think it will happen. There'll be some guys get
an opportunity. You did a radio show for a while,
They're TJ back in the day with your daughter, a
very popular show in LA and I love when you
did that because you were always like the newspaper guy
and all that and came a broadcaster. Did you inlight that?
Was it hard? Was it easy? Was it a layup
(29:19):
line or was it difficult for you.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It was very, very difficult because we were on from
six to nine. We had no six to nine in
the morning, so I'd be covering a Dodger game or
Laker game the night before and wouldn't get home until
after midnight. That's probably what made me so old. I
did it with my daughter, who had absolutely no experience.
(29:42):
But the Cimer's philosophy was take a risk in life.
So she quit her accounting job and did the radio.
But I told her on the air and off the air,
I didn't think she worked as hard ad as you
needed to do to be good in LA So that
ruffled our relationship for a little while. I had Fred
Rogan was on with us, and Fred it was a
(30:03):
tough guy to deal with. As he would tell you,
I was a tough guy to deal with. We didn't
always hit it off so and we just needed more experience.
We needed you around. Then. We needed somebody who's done
this in their entire life, who understand. I didn't want
to call up different people and ask him to come
on the show, and you're supposed to have producers for that.
(30:25):
I actually enjoyed My daughter and I did a Saturday
show or Sunday Sunday Morning show. We would have Jerry
Buss and Jeanie Buss on together. We had John Wooden
and his daughter nan on together. That's when I had
Arti Marino and his daughter on the air together. That
was more fun, more relaxed, and I would do interviews
(30:46):
for sometimes forty minutes instead of the typical radio stuff.
But it was a lifetime experience, but I wouldn't necessarily
sign up to do it again.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, and you mentioned John wood and you became good
friends with Coach Well, I.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Did one of the one of the lovely, unbelievable things
that happened in my life. I mean, he was just
and he liked it. Because I was here reverend with him.
I would only call him the names that he hated.
You know, he hated the Wizard of Westwards. So when
we did a show at an Okaia Theater, I started
(31:24):
off by saying, we've got the Wizard of Westward. Did
I told you not to say that? And he was serious,
he was mad. So I said, okay, we'll call you
Saint John. And he hated being revered like that, just
hated it. He people would literally come to him and
Genia flect when they named the post office after him
(31:44):
in Tarzana. I was with him before the event started
and I said, give me a break here. Now, you
tell me you never took a drink your whole life.
And he said nope, ever, and then all goes well.
One I went to a fraternity party and I said, well,
that was during prohibition. You broke the law. And then
(32:04):
any name but Federal post Office after you a fallin.
And he loved that. He loved that kind of stuff.
He even admitted that he gambled once on a horse
race and the horse was named Gary, Indiana, and he won.
The horse was like twenty five to one and he
won the bet. He liked talking about things that made
(32:28):
him normal. That's why they did this. If you let
me just ran for one minute here, Ben, I we did,
you know, shows at the Nokia Theater when I was
called Nicky. I don't know what it's now, but we
did Jerry Weston's our Dinner Speaker, and we had John
Wooden and Ben Scully on stage together and me it
(32:52):
was live TV. I didn't wouldn't put anything in my ear.
I told him, I'll go to commercial when I feel
like it. My family was worried that the headline next
day day was going to read cybers kills Wooden or
killed Scully because they keel over and they were unbelievable.
The only reason they agreed to do the show was
(33:12):
if I promised to be irreverend towards them. So I
was the irreverend towards them. And the next day I
got killed in email for people because I wasn't handling
them with reverence and respect. It just frightened me. You know,
we did this great thing. We raised a million dollars
for Mattel's Children Hospital at u C l A and
(33:36):
City of Hope and the Children's Hospital in LA. And
Scully did not want any tape of that show safe.
He wanted he wanted made me promise I would not
take the show. The show ended and he came to
me right away and he said, we got to get
a tape of that. That was so much fun, that
was so great. Scully had the time of his life.
(33:57):
And he had seen wood And earlier in the week
who looked like he was. He was sitting in a
wheelchair at a coliseum event, and he said to me,
how are we going to do this? You know, in
his nice way of saying that I had no experience.
He thought he was going to have to carry the
whole show. We got there and we brought a kid
up on stage who had cancer in his leg and
(34:20):
wouldn't absolutely lit up. He got tried to get out
of the wheelchair down at his knees to teach the
kid how to put his shoes and socks on like
he did as basketball players. He was having a moment
where he was just pure enjoyment, and to me, it
was the greatest thing I can ever say about Scully.
(34:40):
Scully noticed it and took a step back. It's now
the John Wooden Show, and he didn't need the spotlight,
and he deferred to as many times as he could
because he couldn't see what was happening with what and
he wheeled Wooden out to the center of the stage.
At the end of the show. It was just it
(35:00):
was just great stuff.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, And you were friends with both those guys. And
I knew Vin a little bit from the Dodger stuff
that I had done, and he was he was. I
remember one time I asked Vin, I thought when I
did Dodger talk. At first, I thought, well, Vin's probably
listening on the way home from you know.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
He listened to show tunes exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
That's what he told me. I was so devastated. It's
like I asked him one time, I said, hey, what
do you listen to? You listen to It was very cool.
He's like, yeah, listen. Yeah, he listens to the show
tunes on the way the way home. But uh, yeah,
it's great. And the lesson I guess of that story, TJ,
is you treated those guys just like you treat everyone else.
You didn't kiss up, you didn't genue flect, and they
they loved it. They wanted more, right.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
That was the key they did. They lived And you know,
with Scully, I made sure that I went to the
bathroom in Dodger Stadium before every game because Scully went.
So we would stand in the arnals next to each
other and I would get a story from Scully. He
told a Rocky Bridges story that just had me laughing
so hard that I was afraid that I pissed on
(36:01):
scully shoes, And you know, I looked down to make
sure that I hadn't caused a problem. But that's why
I went to the bathroom before every game, because I
would run into Scully and no one else would be
in there, so be just the two of us had
chance to talk. He was so good, and then you know,
we did another show. We did one on Kofax and
Torri at the Nokia Theater and I had never known Kofax.
(36:24):
I had a four hour breakfast with him the day before.
It was my first meeting, and he said, do you
ask me any question you want and I'll give you
an answer. I'm so tired of all these people saying
things about me. Let's come clean with everything. Oh okay, fine.
Asked the first four questions that I got a yes, no,
or maybe out of them. He froze the great sandy
(36:44):
Kofax pros so I said, the hell with this. I said,
you know what they tell me you were a great picture.
Henry Aaron owned you, for God's sakes, get three seventy
eight off you. He could do anything he wanted. And
that opened it up. Kofax started to tell stories, beginning
one about Aaron that made him just so human. It was.
(37:07):
It was another just fantastic moment that you could see
behind the persana, what really cool guy he is.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
That's great. Uh you I've taken a lot of your time.
You write a you're doing a blog now. Actually a
guy who we both know, Jay Christiansen, who used to
work at the La Times. Yeah, great guy, he's a
friend of mine. I love Jay. He sent me your column.
That's how I found you. You're you're doing a blog, right,
You're a couple times a week, I guess, I think.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Uh, he just did one a few minutes ago, and um,
so excited to read in the La Times tomorrow how
the women's soccer team did not not a word there
today and you know you got to do everything by
a three pm deadline or you don't make it in
the La Times and the effort to kill the paper. Yeah,
so I'm poking fun at the Times again.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
No, but I love it. And so how can people
find out? I'll put it in the description here, But
how can people? We'll find a TJ they want to
read because you you're doing the same stuff you've always done.
It's just just on your own platform there, So how
can they?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yes, it's TJ Page two, TJ t A g E.
The number two dot blog Okay, and you just go
to that, you just call that up and uh, you know,
I usually put hope fun at the La Times. And
by the way, I'm not angry at the La Times.
(38:27):
I mean they've ruined so many great journalists career because
of just what's happening in newspapers. And I did my
ordeal in courtroom. I would love to work for the
La Times. I even volunteered to Patrick soon Jung to
work for free to of course, you need to have
to donate two hundred thousand dollars the Mattel Children's Hospital UCLA,
(38:49):
but I made that offer. I love newspapers still. I
just wish I could find one in the morning.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, well, that's see, that's the problem to you. If
they Times hired you again, people might actually read it,
and then that would be a problem.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I don't know if i'd get conversions. Man, you know
you touch and go to see if I could get
any conversions.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I got you. Well, I've loved talking to TJ. Thank
you so much for your time. I appreciate it. And
I do read your column when I check it out
as often as they can.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Don't go, don't do it. Don't it's so good for
about twenty minutes, and now I get starting to blow
smoke again. No, I tell you do that with your
guests on because you you know, you're just that's your
nice you know, host of mentality. That's what it is.
I said, I'll hang up and you'll probably you know.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I'll kill you. No, no, yeah, I know that. I
seriously I wish you're one of the.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Best at doing that. And that's good. That's that's high
praise is coming for me.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Well, thank you. I appreciate it. No, no, I always
tell I said, listen, I want more people I love.
I'm not sucking up to you. I've told I've told
you in the past.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
You are to don't don't hang up on you again.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
All right, all right, I have a great day. Thank you, TJ.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Take care.
Host
Ben Maller
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.