November 21, 2018 • 36 mins
Dan Beyer and Bucky Brooks fill in for Doug and tell you if high scoring offenses will lead teams to a Super Bowl. They also have doubts about the Bears and if they can make a playoff run. Greg Cosell from NFL Films joins the show to tell them if the NFL is transforming into all offense.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug gottli Show on Fox Sports Radio on
this Thanksgiving Eve. So glad to have you with us
for the next three hours. We will have you covered
from here, there, and everywhere, including the debut of a
brand new game here on The Doug Gottlieb Show featuring
(00:44):
myself in Bucky Brooks. We'll get to all that later on.
But it's Bucky, It's it's a new day. And I'm
not just talking about it being November one. We are
now in day too of what is the new NFL.
You had BC and a D and now we are
in what the new NFL is after what the Chiefs
(01:05):
and Rams did last night. This I don't care what
you saw previously in the last ninety nine years of
the National Football League. Right now we are in day
two of the new NFL if you believe what everybody
is trying to tell you, because in the last thirty
six hours since that Rams Chiefs game came to an end,
(01:25):
there seems to just be this message, this overload of
conversation that this is the way that the NFL is heading,
and maybe this is the way that the NFL is Well,
are we even close to that? I mean yes and no. Yes,
regular season football has forever changed. The new rules, the
(01:46):
emphasis on the passing game. It's more advantageous to put
the ball in the air. Um, you've seen more teams
be very aggressive using the past to kind of drive
the offense. Uh, points are up, ushdowns are up. Passing
efficiency for all quarterbacks across the board are typically up.
And so we're seeing these things that are going to
(02:07):
happen in record number in terms of the number passes
that may break five thousand yards, the amount of pastors
that are with a passer rating over one hundred. So, yes,
it's a new time. But I think the people that
are really studying the game will look and see that
oval ball still wins, the running game still matters. Teams
(02:28):
that are really good playing complimentary ball, meaning they play offense, defense,
special teams. They make sure that all of those units
are working uh together to make sure they win games.
Those teams are still gonna be the ones that stand
at the end of the season. I see, and I'm
with you. I don't I don't buy any of this.
I how often in our times do we have a
(02:49):
fifty four ball game? This is what the third highest
scoring game in the history of the NFL. The highest
scoring game was a thirty point blowout. So the point
being is this was a game where you talk about
a perfect storm happening. Maybe of how an offense operates,
how a defense operates. That's what we got at the
l A Coliseum on Monday night. I agree with you
(03:13):
of of of how teams would attack. I just even
agree of of what history has shown us with great
teams in the National Football League. And and if this
is the new way of the NFL, Bucky, and if
this is a way that things are going to transform,
I think it makes everybody else on the other side
of the coin, the teams that like to run the
ball and play defense have an even better chance at
(03:36):
winning a Super Bowl. So your favorite team, Seattle, Yes,
they're the only team in the National Football League that
runs the ball on more than of their offensive snaps.
Pet Carroll has remade the Seattle Seahawks and the image
that made them the Super Bowl champion and got them
almost to the point of being able to win back
(03:56):
to back. Not since then four teen have we seen
teams that have been north of the fifty percent mark
when it comes to running. The reason why that counter
tactic will work when you begin to go all in
on passing, like everyone goes all in offensively, you have
all your little guys on the field, you're throwing the
ball all over the yard, uh, defensively. What people then
(04:19):
do to stop passing teams lighter, quicker pass rushers, smaller
linebackers so they can cover in space, more dbs on
the field. So now when you have all those small,
fast guys, they can't really deal with the big physical
nature of a team that is steady when it comes
to the running game. Also, it is easier to slow
(04:40):
the game down than to speed the game up. So
the teams that run the ball can really slow down
the clock. They can play keep away. And what we
haven't seen in regular season ball yet, but we'll start
seeing as we get into December January playoff games, teams
will use their offense to play as their best defense.
They won't let teams like the Rams, the Chiefs, and
(05:03):
even to a lesser stent to New Orleans Saints, they
won't let them run them up with their offense and
all that tempo because they all kind of play half
court basketball like Wisconsin as opposed to going up and
down the floor. He's Bucky Brooks, I'm Dan Buyer. We
are in for Doug gottlie Pure on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
One Cowboys owner Jerry Jones at his weekly radio show
on one oh five point three The Fan in Dallas
(05:25):
yesterday had comments about how you keep up with the
not keeping up with the Joneses, but with the Rams
and Chiefs, if you will, of the NFL. This was
the Cowboys owner on how his team would be able
to compete with the Rams and Chiefs. I don't know
if you were able to see the Rams Chiefs game
last night, but it was an offensive showing when you
look at your team and the way they're playing, now,
(05:46):
do you see yourself able to compete on the level
of these two teams? The last night I don't ever
see us in an air out like that. I see
us really controlling the ball when we're playing at our
best if we got didn't shoot ats, and if you
recall back in Romo's days, we were in shoot ats
and we could shoot out with the best. Having said
(06:07):
all of that, I think that we can compete because
it wouldn't be the same type of game, I believe,
and because if you just assume that you got to
score fifty four points to win a ball game, then
nothing we've seen says we can play at that kind
of level. And that's Jerry Jones going along with what
you were saying, Bucky, And I think with the Cowboys
(06:28):
and their specific example, maybe when we only thought that
they were like a couple of years ago and they
went got the thirteen and three and the number one seed,
it seems so dependent on their offense running downhill and
wearing out an opponent. Now, a team like Dallas, yeah,
in a shootout, it's not gonna work. But both sides
of the ball, Dallas is pretty strong. So I'll match
(06:50):
up against the Rams. Are Chiefs would benefit a team
like Dallas as long as it doesn't get out of
hand early. Yeah, I think there are a couple of
teams and this is why the tournament will be so fast.
In the playoffs tourament, that's like we all call it
the playoffs, but when you're in football, you just call
it the tournament. Now, it should be fascinating because contrasting
(07:10):
styles make fights. And the teams that can go into
the playoffs, the Carolina Panthers, UH, the Washington Redskins if
they get into, Dallas Cowboys, UH, the Seattle Seahawks if
they make it in. All of those teams have the
opportunity to slow the game down and to control the
game with their offense, which will also make their defense
(07:31):
play better. And one of the reasons, like you alluded
to the Old Cowboys a couple of years ago, one
of the reasons why the Cowboys were able to kind
of secure the nube seed and have the record that
they had is because their offense was actually their best defense.
The more the offense has the ball, the fewer snaps
your defense is exposed to. And for a team that
is a high powered offense, the worst thing that can
(07:51):
happen to them is to be stuck on the sideline.
A guy like a Sean McVeigh and Andy Reid. A
guy who has a bunch of players on the play
sheet that they want to get to. When they're rendered
on the sideline, it drives them crazy. It actually makes
them change the way that they go about it. And
so I was with the Carolina Panthers working as a
scout when we knocked off the Greatest Show on Turf
(08:13):
on the way to Super Bowl thirty eight. And what
we did in that game, John Fox decided that he
wanted to play turtle. Turtle means slow the game down
from beginning to end. So what he had instructed Jake
Delane to do is take the play clock down to
five seconds on each and every snap. He said, we
want to shrink this game to make them feel like
(08:34):
what it is like to be in a tight game
in the fourth quarter. When you get into the playoffs
and strategy becomes an even bigger part of winning games,
you will see people find a way to use the
clock to keep those high powered offenses on the sideline
and to make it a tighter game. Kind of like
basketball slows down in the playoffs. Football does the same thing.
And I think you mentioned the Rams, they're perfect example. Yeah,
(08:57):
they got the one super Bowl win, but it was
just two super Bowls. They go one and one in
that spot twenty years ago. You look at the Minnesota Vikings.
We were setting records with Randall Cunningham and when Randy
Moss first onto the scene in a one game scenario
knocked off by the Falcons. The greatest offense we've may
be seen in the last five years. Peyton Manning's record
setting season that he had with the Denver Broncos ends
(09:19):
up in defeats in the Super Bowl in a loss
that was just demolished by the Seahawk. So when you
see these great offenses, to your point, they don't end
up winning super Bowls. And when I look at the
the the stats balance seems to be so much a
part of it. And I used Dallas as the example
because maybe they've taken a step back with how great
(09:40):
the offensive line was, but the the defense and the
defensive front has seemed to raise. And if you look
at recent history. Putting some numbers together before the show,
we realized that the Super Bowl winners, you've just got
to be pretty good in both categories. You can't be
twenty three in total points and you can't be twenty
eight in total points allowed on defense, like the Rams
(10:01):
in Chiefs are if you're gonna want to win the
Super Bowl, history shows that that just doesn't work. It
doesn't work now. Defense, the way defense is played in
the league now is completely different than. Uh, the traditional
metrics that we used to measure by a lot of
people want to measure in total yards. The categories that
you really have to look at and you pointed to
points allowed turnovers. Those are the two biggest deciding factors.
(10:23):
How well do you play in the red zone? Can
you keep teams from scoring seven and make them kick
field goals? And can you get the ball back? Uh?
The turnover margin is really the biggest thing and part
of the reason. On Monday night, I tweeted like, look,
I don't know if either one of these teams can
win giving up fifty burgers because it's little to do
about their defense, but more to do about their offense
(10:44):
and giving the ball away. The number one deciding factor
in football is the turnover margin. If you just win
the giveaway takeaway battle by plus one, you win sixty
percent of your games. If you win in by plus two,
you went about seventy two to seventy, and if it
goes up to plus three, you're you're talking about eighty
five or higher. So by just taking care of the ball,
(11:04):
it increases your chances of winning. And so when the
Rams and the Chiefs engaged in a loosey goosey affair
where it was exciting to watch, but you saw a
lot of turnovers, it's gonna be hard for them to
win games when they turn the ball over. The last
bad defense that I could remember that won a Super
Bowl was and I know the Eagles last year in
the shootout with the Patriots, But the last bad defense,
(11:27):
and I'm using it in quotations, would be the Saints
stats wise, but turnover wise, when they won the Super
Bowl over the cold set season, they were seconds. They
were up there, and you know, it was was funny
about you talked about the Eagles because the immediate pushback
was like, well, in the Super Bowl, uh, the philip
Eagles gave up over six hundred yards or whatever. But
coming into the game, the Eagles finished in the top
(11:50):
four in defense and most categories. The game got away
from them and it was crazy. But even then they
still didn't give up fifty points. It comes down to turnovers.
It comes down to being able to control the game,
and so the teams that are best position to win
the Super Bowl, which is why a lot of people
are heavy on the New Orleans Saints. The Saints are
a high powered offense, but they control the game with
(12:12):
the running game Albacamar mark Ingram. They are one of
the top rushing teams and they make it very very
hard because once they jump up on you, they didn't
consult the game away with the running game. See where
not believers. It's the old NFL. That's the way it is.
There is no new NFL to talk about. He's Bucky Brooks.
I'm Dan Buyer. We are in for Doug Gotliep here
on the Doug Gottlieb Show. If you want to reach
us on Twitter. Be sure to catch live editions of
(12:34):
The Doug got Leap Show weekdays in noon eastern three
pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart
Radio app. Talk NFL and a whole lot more. Has
covered the NFL for a long time, and you can
hear him on the Doomsday Podcast and we hear from
him every single week. You're on the Doug gott Leap Show.
It's ed Ward or ed Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks so much
for coming on today. Happy Thanksgiving to you, and it's
(12:55):
part of my personal holiday tradition. I'll be covering the
Cowboys and Redskins tomorrow at Jerry World from the sidelines
for Westwood One. All right, not too shabby. This is
this is a question that I always give people who
cover the Lions game or the Cowboys things. Have you
ever done a Lions game in Detroit? I know you're
based in Dallas in so many years there, but have
(13:17):
you ever gone to Detroit for a Thanksgiving game? Not
for a Thanksgiving. I've covered plenty of games in Detroit
and Pontiacts, but never for thanks Well, then this is
my question since you haven't and I haven't either, But
could anything beat the spread of what the Cowboys put
out for their meal to the media on Thanksgiving? Is
that I am counting heavily on Jerry tomorrow to provide
(13:40):
and so forth, because it's not happening here at home.
I would think that the Cowboys spread would just be amazing.
But anyway, you know when when when When Jerry first
took over, he he followed the tradition of tech Shram,
who really believed in, you know, catering to and taking
care of the media and being received as a really
high class organization. And every home game featured hand carved
(14:03):
prime rib uh that is no longer the case crushed
the budget on that, but he does provide well for
the holidays. All right, Well, let's let's get to the action.
Bucky and I just started the show talking about this
new NFL that that we like to call. Bucky put
a lot of numbers and saying, pump the brakes. Hold on,
this isn't the new NFL. But from Monday's game between
(14:25):
the Rams and Chiefs, what do you take from that
that shows that the NFL may be changing? Well, I mean,
I think there it's a little bit of an aberration
from from the standpoint of not not many teams have
the philosophy that we saw on display between Kansas City
UM and the Rams. You know. One of the interesting
(14:46):
things that that Andy Reid did you know, and he said,
it's odd to see that a sixty year old NFL
coach would be sort of on the cutting edge of
this revolution in the NFL, if that's what it is. Um.
But remember that last year or the year before last,
you know when he had Alex Smith and he drafted
Patrick Mahomes. He had hired to make two mysterious hires.
(15:09):
One of them was Brad Children's and Brad Schildress was
assigned an odd title analyst of Spread Game UH formations.
And he hired Chris Ault, who had coached UH the
University of Nevada Las Vegas, I'm sorry, the University of
m Navantoino and had coached Colin Kaepernick. So that's the
direction he was obviously going. And he wanted to educate
(15:30):
himself on that and and obviously he's done so to
great degree. Not everybody has this philosophy. Not everybody has
the kind of personnel that these two teams have. I
think probably there's five teams in the NFL who could
get in a scoring contest with the Chiefs and the
Rams and feel comfortable about their chances. And that would
be UH that those three teams, plus um, maybe the
(15:53):
Pittsburgh Steelers and on occasion in New England Patriots because
they scored forty three and beat the Chiefs. UM by yeah,
it's I mean, the NFL is all for this, this
is what they want to do. And I could see
more teams going this direction. The Bears are going to
go this direction because that's why they hired Naggie and
drafted Trabisky. That's the kind of offense both of them
are going to be best prepared for. But they'll be
(16:16):
more coaches hired who coach spread in the spread system,
because that's what the players in high school and college do,
and that's where the NFL gets its players, you know it.
It's interesting that you bring that up because Jerry Jones
has some very interesting comments when it came to a
couple of different things about Dallas. He talked about the
new league and how the Cowboys couldn't necessarily play the
(16:37):
same style as the Rams. But I want to focus
on this comment that he made about a Mariy Cooper
and he liken Mariy Cooper's impact to the impact that
Michael Irvin had on MMM Smith. Haven't seen a Mary
Cooper in Dallas for three weeks. What is this presence
done for that Cowboys offense? Well, um, I don't think
there's any questions. First of all, you have to realize
(16:59):
that every time something good happens in Dallas, Jerry starts
comparing into something from the nineties Cowboys Super Bowl dynasties.
That's just how he's wired, um and and and beyond that. Obviously,
he has a lot invested in trying to justify trading
a first round draft pick for a Mari Cooper because
most people think he was not worth more than a two,
(17:20):
and at the trading deadline there were nine players traded nobody,
but Cooper went for more than a three. So he's
got a lot of interest in justifying the trade. That
being said, I don't think it's coincidental that Dak Prescott's
UH three best completion percentage games have occurred with a
Mari Cooper in a Cowboys uniform. I don't think it's
(17:41):
a coincidence that Ezekiel Elliott's UH running rushing statistics have
gone up measurably per carry since a Mari Cooper's in
a Cowboys uniform. I think there's no question that he
has He has changed the equation for the Cowboys offense.
He sometimes gets covers that allows Prescott to go somewhere else,
(18:03):
and it certainly provides him somewhere to look where he's
pretty confident his number one receiver is going to get open.
And I think he proved last week that he can
make the contested catch that has we haven't seen much
in Dallas this year. So I think he's made a difference.
You know, the fact that he's only twenty. I think
this was a stat that amazed me. Guys uh And
I'm not trying to justify the Mari Cooper trade, um,
(18:25):
but among all of the twenty four year old receivers
at the end at twenty four or younger receivers in
the nfl A, Mari Cooper has the most receiving yards,
more than Tyreek Hill uh and more than uh Stefon Diggs,
the other two twenty four year old receivers that he
would be compared to. So I think he's a good player.
I think he's made a difference. I don't think he's
an elite guy as far as the top ten player
(18:46):
at this point, and I don't think he's Michael Urvin.
And I know that Dak Prescott's not Troy him Edward
are joining us here on Fox Sports Radio, and yet
still that first round pick. He has made a difference.
You could visibly see it on that team. He has
made a difference. What about the team that they're playing
on Thursday, is it a benefit for Washington to have
a short week where maybe Dallas can't figure out Colton
McCoy Or is is is Washington at a disadvantage at
(19:10):
the short week because now Colton McCoy is the starter. Well,
I think all of the teams that have to travel
for Thanksgiving are had a huge disadvantage. Is they're the
most disadvantaged teams in the league, even though now there's
a lot of Thursday night games within the Thursday afternoon games,
so they have less recovery time they have to travel.
And in the case of the Redskins, you know they'd
already they already have more players on injured reserve and
(19:33):
more missed start games than any other team in football.
And now they're dealing with, you know, the emotional loss
of their quarterback to this gruesome injury that they all witnessed. Um.
And now Cool McCoy is, you know, a competent backup player.
That's why Jake Gruten has him. And you know he's
outlasted Kirk Cousins, and he outlasted r G three for
(19:54):
a reason. Um, and this is the reason. And the
last time that he won a game as the starter
was in were keen and it was against Alice in Dallas,
so he's capable of doing it, especially for a team
where you know the the outcome of the game is
unlikely to be dependent on how he performed. This is
a team that's gonna run the football with Adrian Peterson, uh,
(20:14):
and they're gonna play great defense and try and contain
Ezekiel Elliott like they did the last time, and try
and create some turnovers, which they do better than any
team in football. So that's their formula. So I don't
think a lot is gonna be placed on McCoy. And
he made the point that he thinks he'll be better
prepared that he would be for most opponents because they
just played the Cowboys back in Week seven, so he
went through that whole week of preparation. Obviously didn't play
(20:37):
in the game. Um, but but he knows what they
think of their players and and and and how they
feel like they match up and so forth. So has
you've been around the league a long time, and so
I want to pick your brain on this situation that's
taken place up in Green Bay. Uh. It seems like
Mike McCarthy and the Green Bay Packers may be headed
for a divorce at the end of the season. What
(20:57):
is your take on Mike McCarthy and the job that
he's in Green Bay throughout the years, and do you
think there's any way he can salvage his job repairing
his relationship with Aaron Rodgers. Well, I mean, I think
it is. I think there's always been a certain amount
of tension between Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy. And we've
all seen situations, um where that's occurred, and it's been
(21:18):
overcome and maybe it's even been a good thing. Uh.
You know, it existed between Joe Montana and Bill Walsh. Uh,
it existed between Chuck Nole and Terry Bradshaw. Uh. It's
it's totally uh a commonplace in the NFL, as you
well know. Um. And I don't think it's been a
destructive thing in Green Bay. The thing that and I
(21:40):
think people will lose track of, you know, what McCarthy
has done in Green Bay from a standpoint of developing receivers,
developing Aaron Jones, the running back. His problem, I think
is that ultimately everybody looks at it into the cheez,
how can you have Aaron Rodgers all these years? The
best quarterback arguably in the game for over a decade
and only win and go to one Super Bowl? How
(22:02):
is that possible? Um And And I think he's probably
been overly dependent on Aaron Rodgers. You know, we we
saw the game the other night. I mean, he gets
away from Aaron Jones and dominating. He and Davante Adams
are the dominant figures in the offense in the first half,
and then Aaron Jones basically goes away in the second half.
And some of that Rodgers deciding on where to go
with the football, but a lot of it is McCarthy.
(22:24):
As much as he talks about wanting to have balance
and then that's the best way to protect the quarterback
and assist the quarterback, he just never seems to really
follow through with that. Um And, I think he's had
a long time in Green Bay, and if he doesn't
win the division, then I could certainly see them moving
on to somebody else. But I think Mike McCarthy is
an awful good, awfully good coach, and I don't think
(22:44):
he'll be on the street for long. Quick last one
for me, as Edward or joins us here on Fox Sports.
Ready on the Doug Gottlip Show, he's Bucky Brooks. I'm
Dan Buyer. Do you believe in the bears third best
record right now in the NFC? That went over the
Vikings on Sunday? I mentioned the Robinsky injury earlier, but
do you believe in what Chicago's doing? Well? I'd like
to see it for for a little bit longer. And
(23:05):
I talked to a lot of people in the NFL
who weren't big fans of Mitch Troubinsky when he came
into the league. Um, obviously Ryan Pace was a big
believer because he made a trade, traded a lot to
move up one spot to ensure that the Bears got him.
Uh And then when he made the Khalil Mack trade,
the thing I said was, hey, you know he he
doesn't have to worry about Khalil Mack, doesn't have to,
(23:27):
you know, justify the trade. Traubinsky is the one who
has to justify the trade. Trabinsky is the one who
has to win. And and they won, and they've had
some They finally have won back to back games in
the division for the first time in like ten years.
So I think that that makes a statement about their
readiness to contend in their own division. Certainly, I think
it'll be interesting to see them when they play the
(23:49):
Rams in a couple of weeks whether their defense can
uh create the kind of game that their offense is
capable of winning. At this point, if if they're gonna
give up forty five or fifty points, I don't know
that Trabisky and the Bears offense is gonna be able
to do that. If they can holp something, then then
it's probably the kind of game that they can win.
I think that that matchup will tell us a lot
(24:10):
about this team, but certainly it's a team that's on
the rise in a division where it hasn't been much
of a factor in recent years. He'll be on the
sidelines for the Thanksgiving affair between the Redskins and Cowboys
tomorrow for Westwood One. Make sure you listen to the
Doomsday podcast. Edward Or, thanks again, ed and again, Happy
Thanksgiving to you and yours and we appreciate it. We'll
do it again soon. Well, Happy holiday to you guys too,
(24:32):
and I look forward to the next opportunity. Thanks very much.
Edward Or, a long time reporter for the National Football League,
joining us here on the Doug gott Leap Show. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Doug got Leap
Show week days in noon eastern three pm Pacific. Are
good friend from NFL Films. Greg Grisel joins us year
on Fox Sports Radio. Hey, great, good to talk to
you again, gentlemen. How are you doing? We are doing well.
(24:52):
We touched a bit on the games that are gonna
be taking place tomorrow. So my first question to you
with that triple header, who's effected more with the quarterback change?
Chase Daniel in for Mitchell Trubisky and the Bears likely
against the Lions for the Colt McCoy starting for Washington.
Now that Alex Smith has done for the year, what
seems affected more by the injury? Oh, I would say,
(25:16):
to be honest with you, I'm I think the difference
for Chicago will be this. What Daniel can't do that
Drubisky has done well is make second reaction improvisational plays
and cause defenses have to react to that. For instance, Minnesota,
UH this past week they had a number of plays
in which they spied on true Whisky. Defenses would not
(25:36):
do that to Daniel. But as far as the schemes
and the past game concepts. I don't think Matt Naggie
will change that at all. I think he's a strong
believer in his system and he'll believe that Naggy, that
Daniel who's been with him before, can run that system.
So I don't think there'll be a big change in
what they do. UH. As far as Washington, I think
(25:58):
it'll be interesting because one thing about Alex Smith throughout
his career is it had to be really well defined
for him to throw balls at the intermediate levels. And
I think McCoy is actually a more aggressive thrower, and
I think he'll probably turn it loose. Uh within the
concepts of Jake Gruden. Then Alex Smith has up to
this point in the season. You know, Greg, I want
(26:20):
to go back to the Monday Night game, because the
Monday Night game seemed to be an ushering end of
a new league based on how outsiders viewed it. When
but when you looked at the tape and you looked
at the game, and you looked at the rams and
how the kann CD Chiefs play, are you in under
the mindset of the impression that the league is changing
because teams are throwing it all over the yard? What
(26:41):
was your takeaway from that game as relates to like
the trends in the league. Uh, you know, I think
things change, Bucky, and you know this, you study the
league as well for a long time. I think things
do change. I don't think they change in a revolutionary
way the way some people believe that they do. Um.
I can go back to when Mike mart started lining
(27:02):
up three and four wide receivers on first down, and
that seemed revolutionary at the time. Now, obviously that's part
of the NFL. Just like uh, you know, I think
there'll be some things that are happening now that will
be part of the league. UM. I think it was
a game with two really good offenses against for the
most part, two not very good defenses, and I think
(27:26):
it was just one of those games. I think there's
a people element to this as well as a tactical element,
particularly when you talk about the Chiefs um the Rams
to me, and I don't know how you feel, Buck.
You study this really hard as well. I don't think
what the Rams do is particularly revolutionary. I think that
they've taken some things and tweaked them, but I don't
think they're doing anything that has not been seen before
(27:50):
or is is you know, so unique that that it's
changing the game? You know, I think they do tight splits.
I think they do outside zone run action. I think
they do jet sweep action. They expand the field horizontally,
they stretch it vertically, and they create space in the middle.
I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see
that as revolutionary. Maybe great cost join us here on
(28:12):
Fox Sports Radio. Maybe you've answered the question. Who's tougher
to copycat than the Chiefs are the Rams? If you're
another team, well, I think you can copy what the
Rams do, and a lot of teams do. They're trying to.
You see a lot more tight or minus splits with
wide receivers in the league. And you know, that's something
that I know Bucky has talked about a lot and
written about a lot, because there's there's specific advantages that
(28:34):
that gives you and and I think it makes it
more difficult for defenses. Um, as far as the Chiefs,
you know, I think the Chiefs are very much a
people offense that is well schemed. Um. Patrick Mahomes is
a really really dynamic thrower of the football. There's not
a lot of guys and sometimes we oversee this. But
(28:56):
I think in the case of Mahomes, it's true there's
not a lot of guys who can throw it like
Drick Mahomes. But then you get to the people business.
You have Kelsey, you have Hill, you have Hunt. You
know even I mean Sammy Watkins has not played much
the last couple of weeks, but you could look at
Sammy Watkins as the fourth weapon in that offense. So, uh,
(29:17):
you know, I know there's been a lot of talking, Bucky.
You've probably talked about this too, about people saying that
NFL coaches don't know how to deal with this and
they should take a page from college coaches. That's all
well and good, but it's still a people business at times,
and the Chiefs just have really good people. Now, I
think you hit the nail on the head. Uh had
(29:37):
an old coach tell me as players not plays. The
kan City Chiefs offense is a player offense based on
the guys that they have. They build around their talents
and they come away to make it work with the Rams.
The Rams are doing stuff that Joe Gibbs used to
do back with the Redskins in terms of like x
over z Over's fourth flow, play action at that other stuff. So, uh,
(30:01):
it is unique and seeing teams copy from that. I
think the one thing that does come from watching those
teams play, good coaches can really elevate the way your
quarterback plays. I agree when I look at New Orleans
and I'm looking at what Drew Brees is doing, how
much is Sean Payton helping Drew Brees play at a
high level at this age? Well, I think we've said
(30:21):
that for a lot of years. I mean, you know,
and again, I think Drew Brees has been really special
for a lot of years, and we can say that, hey,
maybe this year he's even a little better. But I
don't think he's any different necessarily. I think what they
what teams have really done and and this is something
I've really noticed on tape with all teams, but I
think these Saints are uniquely equipped to handle this is
(30:44):
you see so many teams now attack the boundary side
of the field, the short side of the field, because
what happens with defenses is even when they're playing his
Zonn concepts, they tend to match up to the boundary
side of the field. And when the Saints put Kamara
and very often Michael Thomas to that short side of
the field, of boundary side, which they do quite a bit.
(31:05):
It's really difficult to match up. Kamara, to me, is
such a nightmare player for defense is to have to
match up to um. You know, I know he doesn't
carry twenty times a game, but I think his talent
is is really special, even as a runner and and
certainly we know as a receiver. But you know, that's
another part of the game that changes, this sort of
(31:25):
focus on attacking the boundary side of the field and dictating,
you know, creating and dictating matchups. Greg go Sell of
NFL Films joining us here on the Doug Gottlib Show.
He's Bucky Brooks. I'm Dan Buyer in for Doug today.
What about the team the Saints just beat. That'd be
the Philadelphia Eagles. We touched on it a bit earlier
in the show. But why haven't they been able to
get Golden Tate involved since he was acquired via a
(31:47):
trade and get that running game going. What's the problem
with the Eagles? You know, it's very difficult for me
to be speak about the Golden Tate. We heard Mike
grow make a comment about it earlier this week. I
was a little surprised and missed a find by that comment,
but you know, he certainly is there every day coaching
the players. I think overall, the Eagles don't have very
(32:07):
many dimensions on the offensive side of the ball. And
I think because they're a Super Bowl champion, uh and
obviously you can't take that away from him, there's this
sense that they're a great team. But I think when
you look at the Eagles, they're very limited at running back.
They have no vertical dimension whatsoever offensively, and I think
it's very hard in today's NFL to be dynamic offensively
(32:28):
without a vertical dimension. Their tight end is really good,
but he's a certain kind of tight end. In other words,
he can't do what let's say Travis Kelsey can do
as far as matchups and stretching the field. Um Alshon
Jeffrey is a nice receiver, but but again there's no
dynamic element to him. So I think they're very limited
offensively without the needed dimensions to be that good, you know,
(32:51):
and in in terms of another offense that appears to
be very, very limited and not dynamic. The conversation in
Green Bay with Mike mc arthy and Aaron Rodgers. Uh
people are saying Mike McCarthy is not doing enough for
Aaron Rodgers. When you look at the tape of the Packers,
what do you see from their offense? Well, I think, Bucky,
they've always been and I know you you've studied as well.
(33:13):
I think they've always been more based in the past
game on individual isolation routes as opposed to route integration
with two three man route concepts. And then then it
comes down to people. And I think Davante Adams is
a very good receiver who can line up anywhere in
the formation, but they haven't had much in recent years.
Cobb has been in and out of the lineup. I
(33:34):
think he's a good slot receiver win healthy, but now
we don't know what he is because he hasn't been
healthy that much. Um. Obviously, they've got the kid Val
desk handling, who is a vertical dimension and a strider
who I think can give them something, but he needs
to be worked in. Uh So, I think that's always
been the issue, is the fact that they just haven't
(33:56):
had receivers who in a sense can win one on
one and create separ ration on a consistent basis. Because
that's what they ask their receivers to do for the
most part. And you know, you go back to teams
that have had really good receivers. You think back to
the Colts with Peyton Manning. They did a lot of
isolation routes, one on one individual routes, but they had
Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and then you can win those,
(34:17):
and then you had a quarterback who would always throw
the ball. Aaron Rodgers is a very unique quarterback because
he'll leave things on the field and make something out
of nothing. But there's also at times he'll make nothing
out of something because he's not necessarily a rhythm player
at his core. Greg Coseel joining us here on Fox
Sports Radio. I'm Dan Buyer, He's Bucky brooks Is. We're
(34:37):
in for Doug today. We touched on this earlier with
the Bears third best record in the NFC. Do you
think they're the third best team in the NFC? Uh.
I think they're very good on defense. Uh, they can
rush the quarterback. I think that to me. Vic Fangio
is as good as there is with what he does. Uh.
(34:57):
In the secondary, I mean when you talk about sort
of coverage disguise man coverage, matsub matchups, own principles, blurring
the coverage lines. Uh, because all he's hoping for is
that the quarterback has to wait that extra beat because
with Mac, with Hicks, uh, they can get to the quarterback.
So I think they're really good on defense. Um, you know, offensively,
(35:19):
they're clearly a work in progress. I mean, they've got
a young quarterback who's still erratic, still up and down. Um,
their run game is not quite you know what it
what they'd like it to be. I'm sure. So I
think I think their offense is a week to week proposition,
and I think their defense is very good. He's Greg
co Sell of NFL Films. We appreciate the time, Greg,
(35:40):
thanks so much. Have a great Thanksgiving, and uh yeah,
enjoy the turkey and football tomorrow. I will be eating
a lot tomorrow, guys. That's my goal. That's my objective,
and I'm you know what I'm gonna. I'm gonna reach
that objective. You know, it's not just tomorrow, it's my
goal every single day. Well, I try not to do that,
but you know, hey, we all have our own priorities.
Hit Greg, have a great thanks guys, have a great
(36:01):
antae
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug gottli Show on Fox Sports Radio on
this Thanksgiving Eve. So glad to have you with us
for the next three hours. We will have you covered
from here, there, and everywhere, including the debut of a
brand new game here on The Doug Gottlieb Show featuring
(00:44):
myself in Bucky Brooks. We'll get to all that later on.
But it's Bucky, It's it's a new day. And I'm
not just talking about it being November one. We are
now in day too of what is the new NFL.
You had BC and a D and now we are
in what the new NFL is after what the Chiefs
(01:05):
and Rams did last night. This I don't care what
you saw previously in the last ninety nine years of
the National Football League. Right now we are in day
two of the new NFL if you believe what everybody
is trying to tell you, because in the last thirty
six hours since that Rams Chiefs game came to an end,
(01:25):
there seems to just be this message, this overload of
conversation that this is the way that the NFL is heading,
and maybe this is the way that the NFL is Well,
are we even close to that? I mean yes and no. Yes,
regular season football has forever changed. The new rules, the
(01:46):
emphasis on the passing game. It's more advantageous to put
the ball in the air. Um, you've seen more teams
be very aggressive using the past to kind of drive
the offense. Uh, points are up, ushdowns are up. Passing
efficiency for all quarterbacks across the board are typically up.
And so we're seeing these things that are going to
(02:07):
happen in record number in terms of the number passes
that may break five thousand yards, the amount of pastors
that are with a passer rating over one hundred. So, yes,
it's a new time. But I think the people that
are really studying the game will look and see that
oval ball still wins, the running game still matters. Teams
(02:28):
that are really good playing complimentary ball, meaning they play offense, defense,
special teams. They make sure that all of those units
are working uh together to make sure they win games.
Those teams are still gonna be the ones that stand
at the end of the season. I see, and I'm
with you. I don't I don't buy any of this.
I how often in our times do we have a
(02:49):
fifty four ball game? This is what the third highest
scoring game in the history of the NFL. The highest
scoring game was a thirty point blowout. So the point
being is this was a game where you talk about
a perfect storm happening. Maybe of how an offense operates,
how a defense operates. That's what we got at the
l A Coliseum on Monday night. I agree with you
(03:13):
of of of how teams would attack. I just even
agree of of what history has shown us with great
teams in the National Football League. And and if this
is the new way of the NFL, Bucky, and if
this is a way that things are going to transform,
I think it makes everybody else on the other side
of the coin, the teams that like to run the
ball and play defense have an even better chance at
(03:36):
winning a Super Bowl. So your favorite team, Seattle, Yes,
they're the only team in the National Football League that
runs the ball on more than of their offensive snaps.
Pet Carroll has remade the Seattle Seahawks and the image
that made them the Super Bowl champion and got them
almost to the point of being able to win back
(03:56):
to back. Not since then four teen have we seen
teams that have been north of the fifty percent mark
when it comes to running. The reason why that counter
tactic will work when you begin to go all in
on passing, like everyone goes all in offensively, you have
all your little guys on the field, you're throwing the
ball all over the yard, uh, defensively. What people then
(04:19):
do to stop passing teams lighter, quicker pass rushers, smaller
linebackers so they can cover in space, more dbs on
the field. So now when you have all those small,
fast guys, they can't really deal with the big physical
nature of a team that is steady when it comes
to the running game. Also, it is easier to slow
(04:40):
the game down than to speed the game up. So
the teams that run the ball can really slow down
the clock. They can play keep away. And what we
haven't seen in regular season ball yet, but we'll start
seeing as we get into December January playoff games, teams
will use their offense to play as their best defense.
They won't let teams like the Rams, the Chiefs, and
(05:03):
even to a lesser stent to New Orleans Saints, they
won't let them run them up with their offense and
all that tempo because they all kind of play half
court basketball like Wisconsin as opposed to going up and
down the floor. He's Bucky Brooks, I'm Dan Buyer. We
are in for Doug gottlie Pure on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
One Cowboys owner Jerry Jones at his weekly radio show
on one oh five point three The Fan in Dallas
(05:25):
yesterday had comments about how you keep up with the
not keeping up with the Joneses, but with the Rams
and Chiefs, if you will, of the NFL. This was
the Cowboys owner on how his team would be able
to compete with the Rams and Chiefs. I don't know
if you were able to see the Rams Chiefs game
last night, but it was an offensive showing when you
look at your team and the way they're playing, now,
(05:46):
do you see yourself able to compete on the level
of these two teams? The last night I don't ever
see us in an air out like that. I see
us really controlling the ball when we're playing at our
best if we got didn't shoot ats, and if you
recall back in Romo's days, we were in shoot ats
and we could shoot out with the best. Having said
(06:07):
all of that, I think that we can compete because
it wouldn't be the same type of game, I believe,
and because if you just assume that you got to
score fifty four points to win a ball game, then
nothing we've seen says we can play at that kind
of level. And that's Jerry Jones going along with what
you were saying, Bucky, And I think with the Cowboys
(06:28):
and their specific example, maybe when we only thought that
they were like a couple of years ago and they
went got the thirteen and three and the number one seed,
it seems so dependent on their offense running downhill and
wearing out an opponent. Now, a team like Dallas, yeah,
in a shootout, it's not gonna work. But both sides
of the ball, Dallas is pretty strong. So I'll match
(06:50):
up against the Rams. Are Chiefs would benefit a team
like Dallas as long as it doesn't get out of
hand early. Yeah, I think there are a couple of
teams and this is why the tournament will be so fast.
In the playoffs tourament, that's like we all call it
the playoffs, but when you're in football, you just call
it the tournament. Now, it should be fascinating because contrasting
(07:10):
styles make fights. And the teams that can go into
the playoffs, the Carolina Panthers, UH, the Washington Redskins if
they get into, Dallas Cowboys, UH, the Seattle Seahawks if
they make it in. All of those teams have the
opportunity to slow the game down and to control the
game with their offense, which will also make their defense
(07:31):
play better. And one of the reasons, like you alluded
to the Old Cowboys a couple of years ago, one
of the reasons why the Cowboys were able to kind
of secure the nube seed and have the record that
they had is because their offense was actually their best defense.
The more the offense has the ball, the fewer snaps
your defense is exposed to. And for a team that
is a high powered offense, the worst thing that can
(07:51):
happen to them is to be stuck on the sideline.
A guy like a Sean McVeigh and Andy Reid. A
guy who has a bunch of players on the play
sheet that they want to get to. When they're rendered
on the sideline, it drives them crazy. It actually makes
them change the way that they go about it. And
so I was with the Carolina Panthers working as a
scout when we knocked off the Greatest Show on Turf
(08:13):
on the way to Super Bowl thirty eight. And what
we did in that game, John Fox decided that he
wanted to play turtle. Turtle means slow the game down
from beginning to end. So what he had instructed Jake
Delane to do is take the play clock down to
five seconds on each and every snap. He said, we
want to shrink this game to make them feel like
(08:34):
what it is like to be in a tight game
in the fourth quarter. When you get into the playoffs
and strategy becomes an even bigger part of winning games,
you will see people find a way to use the
clock to keep those high powered offenses on the sideline
and to make it a tighter game. Kind of like
basketball slows down in the playoffs. Football does the same thing.
And I think you mentioned the Rams, they're perfect example. Yeah,
(08:57):
they got the one super Bowl win, but it was
just two super Bowls. They go one and one in
that spot twenty years ago. You look at the Minnesota Vikings.
We were setting records with Randall Cunningham and when Randy
Moss first onto the scene in a one game scenario
knocked off by the Falcons. The greatest offense we've may
be seen in the last five years. Peyton Manning's record
setting season that he had with the Denver Broncos ends
(09:19):
up in defeats in the Super Bowl in a loss
that was just demolished by the Seahawk. So when you
see these great offenses, to your point, they don't end
up winning super Bowls. And when I look at the
the the stats balance seems to be so much a
part of it. And I used Dallas as the example
because maybe they've taken a step back with how great
(09:40):
the offensive line was, but the the defense and the
defensive front has seemed to raise. And if you look
at recent history. Putting some numbers together before the show,
we realized that the Super Bowl winners, you've just got
to be pretty good in both categories. You can't be
twenty three in total points and you can't be twenty
eight in total points allowed on defense, like the Rams
(10:01):
in Chiefs are if you're gonna want to win the
Super Bowl, history shows that that just doesn't work. It
doesn't work now. Defense, the way defense is played in
the league now is completely different than. Uh, the traditional
metrics that we used to measure by a lot of
people want to measure in total yards. The categories that
you really have to look at and you pointed to
points allowed turnovers. Those are the two biggest deciding factors.
(10:23):
How well do you play in the red zone? Can
you keep teams from scoring seven and make them kick
field goals? And can you get the ball back? Uh?
The turnover margin is really the biggest thing and part
of the reason. On Monday night, I tweeted like, look,
I don't know if either one of these teams can
win giving up fifty burgers because it's little to do
about their defense, but more to do about their offense
(10:44):
and giving the ball away. The number one deciding factor
in football is the turnover margin. If you just win
the giveaway takeaway battle by plus one, you win sixty
percent of your games. If you win in by plus two,
you went about seventy two to seventy, and if it
goes up to plus three, you're you're talking about eighty
five or higher. So by just taking care of the ball,
(11:04):
it increases your chances of winning. And so when the
Rams and the Chiefs engaged in a loosey goosey affair
where it was exciting to watch, but you saw a
lot of turnovers, it's gonna be hard for them to
win games when they turn the ball over. The last
bad defense that I could remember that won a Super
Bowl was and I know the Eagles last year in
the shootout with the Patriots, But the last bad defense,
(11:27):
and I'm using it in quotations, would be the Saints
stats wise, but turnover wise, when they won the Super
Bowl over the cold set season, they were seconds. They
were up there, and you know, it was was funny
about you talked about the Eagles because the immediate pushback
was like, well, in the Super Bowl, uh, the philip
Eagles gave up over six hundred yards or whatever. But
coming into the game, the Eagles finished in the top
(11:50):
four in defense and most categories. The game got away
from them and it was crazy. But even then they
still didn't give up fifty points. It comes down to turnovers.
It comes down to being able to control the game,
and so the teams that are best position to win
the Super Bowl, which is why a lot of people
are heavy on the New Orleans Saints. The Saints are
a high powered offense, but they control the game with
(12:12):
the running game Albacamar mark Ingram. They are one of
the top rushing teams and they make it very very
hard because once they jump up on you, they didn't
consult the game away with the running game. See where
not believers. It's the old NFL. That's the way it is.
There is no new NFL to talk about. He's Bucky Brooks.
I'm Dan Buyer. We are in for Doug Gotliep here
on the Doug Gottlieb Show. If you want to reach
us on Twitter. Be sure to catch live editions of
(12:34):
The Doug got Leap Show weekdays in noon eastern three
pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart
Radio app. Talk NFL and a whole lot more. Has
covered the NFL for a long time, and you can
hear him on the Doomsday Podcast and we hear from
him every single week. You're on the Doug gott Leap Show.
It's ed Ward or ed Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks so much
for coming on today. Happy Thanksgiving to you, and it's
(12:55):
part of my personal holiday tradition. I'll be covering the
Cowboys and Redskins tomorrow at Jerry World from the sidelines
for Westwood One. All right, not too shabby. This is
this is a question that I always give people who
cover the Lions game or the Cowboys things. Have you
ever done a Lions game in Detroit? I know you're
based in Dallas in so many years there, but have
(13:17):
you ever gone to Detroit for a Thanksgiving game? Not
for a Thanksgiving. I've covered plenty of games in Detroit
and Pontiacts, but never for thanks Well, then this is
my question since you haven't and I haven't either, But
could anything beat the spread of what the Cowboys put
out for their meal to the media on Thanksgiving? Is
that I am counting heavily on Jerry tomorrow to provide
(13:40):
and so forth, because it's not happening here at home.
I would think that the Cowboys spread would just be amazing.
But anyway, you know when when when When Jerry first
took over, he he followed the tradition of tech Shram,
who really believed in, you know, catering to and taking
care of the media and being received as a really
high class organization. And every home game featured hand carved
(14:03):
prime rib uh that is no longer the case crushed
the budget on that, but he does provide well for
the holidays. All right, Well, let's let's get to the action.
Bucky and I just started the show talking about this
new NFL that that we like to call. Bucky put
a lot of numbers and saying, pump the brakes. Hold on,
this isn't the new NFL. But from Monday's game between
(14:25):
the Rams and Chiefs, what do you take from that
that shows that the NFL may be changing? Well, I mean,
I think there it's a little bit of an aberration
from from the standpoint of not not many teams have
the philosophy that we saw on display between Kansas City
UM and the Rams. You know. One of the interesting
(14:46):
things that that Andy Reid did you know, and he said,
it's odd to see that a sixty year old NFL
coach would be sort of on the cutting edge of
this revolution in the NFL, if that's what it is. Um.
But remember that last year or the year before last,
you know when he had Alex Smith and he drafted
Patrick Mahomes. He had hired to make two mysterious hires.
(15:09):
One of them was Brad Children's and Brad Schildress was
assigned an odd title analyst of Spread Game UH formations.
And he hired Chris Ault, who had coached UH the
University of Nevada Las Vegas, I'm sorry, the University of
m Navantoino and had coached Colin Kaepernick. So that's the
direction he was obviously going. And he wanted to educate
(15:30):
himself on that and and obviously he's done so to
great degree. Not everybody has this philosophy. Not everybody has
the kind of personnel that these two teams have. I
think probably there's five teams in the NFL who could
get in a scoring contest with the Chiefs and the
Rams and feel comfortable about their chances. And that would
be UH that those three teams, plus um, maybe the
(15:53):
Pittsburgh Steelers and on occasion in New England Patriots because
they scored forty three and beat the Chiefs. UM by yeah,
it's I mean, the NFL is all for this, this
is what they want to do. And I could see
more teams going this direction. The Bears are going to
go this direction because that's why they hired Naggie and
drafted Trabisky. That's the kind of offense both of them
are going to be best prepared for. But they'll be
(16:16):
more coaches hired who coach spread in the spread system,
because that's what the players in high school and college do,
and that's where the NFL gets its players, you know it.
It's interesting that you bring that up because Jerry Jones
has some very interesting comments when it came to a
couple of different things about Dallas. He talked about the
new league and how the Cowboys couldn't necessarily play the
(16:37):
same style as the Rams. But I want to focus
on this comment that he made about a Mariy Cooper
and he liken Mariy Cooper's impact to the impact that
Michael Irvin had on MMM Smith. Haven't seen a Mary
Cooper in Dallas for three weeks. What is this presence
done for that Cowboys offense? Well, um, I don't think
there's any questions. First of all, you have to realize
(16:59):
that every time something good happens in Dallas, Jerry starts
comparing into something from the nineties Cowboys Super Bowl dynasties.
That's just how he's wired, um and and and beyond that. Obviously,
he has a lot invested in trying to justify trading
a first round draft pick for a Mari Cooper because
most people think he was not worth more than a two,
(17:20):
and at the trading deadline there were nine players traded nobody,
but Cooper went for more than a three. So he's
got a lot of interest in justifying the trade. That
being said, I don't think it's coincidental that Dak Prescott's
UH three best completion percentage games have occurred with a
Mari Cooper in a Cowboys uniform. I don't think it's
(17:41):
a coincidence that Ezekiel Elliott's UH running rushing statistics have
gone up measurably per carry since a Mari Cooper's in
a Cowboys uniform. I think there's no question that he
has He has changed the equation for the Cowboys offense.
He sometimes gets covers that allows Prescott to go somewhere else,
(18:03):
and it certainly provides him somewhere to look where he's
pretty confident his number one receiver is going to get open.
And I think he proved last week that he can
make the contested catch that has we haven't seen much
in Dallas this year. So I think he's made a difference.
You know, the fact that he's only twenty. I think
this was a stat that amazed me. Guys uh And
I'm not trying to justify the Mari Cooper trade, um,
(18:25):
but among all of the twenty four year old receivers
at the end at twenty four or younger receivers in
the nfl A, Mari Cooper has the most receiving yards,
more than Tyreek Hill uh and more than uh Stefon Diggs,
the other two twenty four year old receivers that he
would be compared to. So I think he's a good player.
I think he's made a difference. I don't think he's
an elite guy as far as the top ten player
(18:46):
at this point, and I don't think he's Michael Urvin.
And I know that Dak Prescott's not Troy him Edward
are joining us here on Fox Sports Radio, and yet
still that first round pick. He has made a difference.
You could visibly see it on that team. He has
made a difference. What about the team that they're playing
on Thursday, is it a benefit for Washington to have
a short week where maybe Dallas can't figure out Colton
McCoy Or is is is Washington at a disadvantage at
(19:10):
the short week because now Colton McCoy is the starter. Well,
I think all of the teams that have to travel
for Thanksgiving are had a huge disadvantage. Is they're the
most disadvantaged teams in the league, even though now there's
a lot of Thursday night games within the Thursday afternoon games,
so they have less recovery time they have to travel.
And in the case of the Redskins, you know they'd
already they already have more players on injured reserve and
(19:33):
more missed start games than any other team in football.
And now they're dealing with, you know, the emotional loss
of their quarterback to this gruesome injury that they all witnessed. Um.
And now Cool McCoy is, you know, a competent backup player.
That's why Jake Gruten has him. And you know he's
outlasted Kirk Cousins, and he outlasted r G three for
(19:54):
a reason. Um, and this is the reason. And the
last time that he won a game as the starter
was in were keen and it was against Alice in Dallas,
so he's capable of doing it, especially for a team
where you know the the outcome of the game is
unlikely to be dependent on how he performed. This is
a team that's gonna run the football with Adrian Peterson, uh,
(20:14):
and they're gonna play great defense and try and contain
Ezekiel Elliott like they did the last time, and try
and create some turnovers, which they do better than any
team in football. So that's their formula. So I don't
think a lot is gonna be placed on McCoy. And
he made the point that he thinks he'll be better
prepared that he would be for most opponents because they
just played the Cowboys back in Week seven, so he
went through that whole week of preparation. Obviously didn't play
(20:37):
in the game. Um, but but he knows what they
think of their players and and and and how they
feel like they match up and so forth. So has
you've been around the league a long time, and so
I want to pick your brain on this situation that's
taken place up in Green Bay. Uh. It seems like
Mike McCarthy and the Green Bay Packers may be headed
for a divorce at the end of the season. What
(20:57):
is your take on Mike McCarthy and the job that
he's in Green Bay throughout the years, and do you
think there's any way he can salvage his job repairing
his relationship with Aaron Rodgers. Well, I mean, I think
it is. I think there's always been a certain amount
of tension between Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy. And we've
all seen situations, um where that's occurred, and it's been
(21:18):
overcome and maybe it's even been a good thing. Uh.
You know, it existed between Joe Montana and Bill Walsh. Uh,
it existed between Chuck Nole and Terry Bradshaw. Uh. It's
it's totally uh a commonplace in the NFL, as you
well know. Um. And I don't think it's been a
destructive thing in Green Bay. The thing that and I
(21:40):
think people will lose track of, you know, what McCarthy
has done in Green Bay from a standpoint of developing receivers,
developing Aaron Jones, the running back. His problem, I think
is that ultimately everybody looks at it into the cheez,
how can you have Aaron Rodgers all these years? The
best quarterback arguably in the game for over a decade
and only win and go to one Super Bowl? How
(22:02):
is that possible? Um And And I think he's probably
been overly dependent on Aaron Rodgers. You know, we we
saw the game the other night. I mean, he gets
away from Aaron Jones and dominating. He and Davante Adams
are the dominant figures in the offense in the first half,
and then Aaron Jones basically goes away in the second half.
And some of that Rodgers deciding on where to go
with the football, but a lot of it is McCarthy.
(22:24):
As much as he talks about wanting to have balance
and then that's the best way to protect the quarterback
and assist the quarterback, he just never seems to really
follow through with that. Um And, I think he's had
a long time in Green Bay, and if he doesn't
win the division, then I could certainly see them moving
on to somebody else. But I think Mike McCarthy is
an awful good, awfully good coach, and I don't think
(22:44):
he'll be on the street for long. Quick last one
for me, as Edward or joins us here on Fox Sports.
Ready on the Doug Gottlip Show, he's Bucky Brooks. I'm
Dan Buyer. Do you believe in the bears third best
record right now in the NFC? That went over the
Vikings on Sunday? I mentioned the Robinsky injury earlier, but
do you believe in what Chicago's doing? Well? I'd like
to see it for for a little bit longer. And
(23:05):
I talked to a lot of people in the NFL
who weren't big fans of Mitch Troubinsky when he came
into the league. Um, obviously Ryan Pace was a big
believer because he made a trade, traded a lot to
move up one spot to ensure that the Bears got him.
Uh And then when he made the Khalil Mack trade,
the thing I said was, hey, you know he he
doesn't have to worry about Khalil Mack, doesn't have to,
(23:27):
you know, justify the trade. Traubinsky is the one who
has to justify the trade. Trabinsky is the one who
has to win. And and they won, and they've had
some They finally have won back to back games in
the division for the first time in like ten years.
So I think that that makes a statement about their
readiness to contend in their own division. Certainly, I think
it'll be interesting to see them when they play the
(23:49):
Rams in a couple of weeks whether their defense can
uh create the kind of game that their offense is
capable of winning. At this point, if if they're gonna
give up forty five or fifty points, I don't know
that Trabisky and the Bears offense is gonna be able
to do that. If they can holp something, then then
it's probably the kind of game that they can win.
I think that that matchup will tell us a lot
(24:10):
about this team, but certainly it's a team that's on
the rise in a division where it hasn't been much
of a factor in recent years. He'll be on the
sidelines for the Thanksgiving affair between the Redskins and Cowboys
tomorrow for Westwood One. Make sure you listen to the
Doomsday podcast. Edward Or, thanks again, ed and again, Happy
Thanksgiving to you and yours and we appreciate it. We'll
do it again soon. Well, Happy holiday to you guys too,
(24:32):
and I look forward to the next opportunity. Thanks very much.
Edward Or, a long time reporter for the National Football League,
joining us here on the Doug gott Leap Show. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Doug got Leap
Show week days in noon eastern three pm Pacific. Are
good friend from NFL Films. Greg Grisel joins us year
on Fox Sports Radio. Hey, great, good to talk to
you again, gentlemen. How are you doing? We are doing well.
(24:52):
We touched a bit on the games that are gonna
be taking place tomorrow. So my first question to you
with that triple header, who's effected more with the quarterback change?
Chase Daniel in for Mitchell Trubisky and the Bears likely
against the Lions for the Colt McCoy starting for Washington.
Now that Alex Smith has done for the year, what
seems affected more by the injury? Oh, I would say,
(25:16):
to be honest with you, I'm I think the difference
for Chicago will be this. What Daniel can't do that
Drubisky has done well is make second reaction improvisational plays
and cause defenses have to react to that. For instance, Minnesota,
UH this past week they had a number of plays
in which they spied on true Whisky. Defenses would not
(25:36):
do that to Daniel. But as far as the schemes
and the past game concepts. I don't think Matt Naggie
will change that at all. I think he's a strong
believer in his system and he'll believe that Naggy, that
Daniel who's been with him before, can run that system.
So I don't think there'll be a big change in
what they do. UH. As far as Washington, I think
(25:58):
it'll be interesting because one thing about Alex Smith throughout
his career is it had to be really well defined
for him to throw balls at the intermediate levels. And
I think McCoy is actually a more aggressive thrower, and
I think he'll probably turn it loose. Uh within the
concepts of Jake Gruden. Then Alex Smith has up to
this point in the season. You know, Greg, I want
(26:20):
to go back to the Monday Night game, because the
Monday Night game seemed to be an ushering end of
a new league based on how outsiders viewed it. When
but when you looked at the tape and you looked
at the game, and you looked at the rams and
how the kann CD Chiefs play, are you in under
the mindset of the impression that the league is changing
because teams are throwing it all over the yard? What
(26:41):
was your takeaway from that game as relates to like
the trends in the league. Uh, you know, I think
things change, Bucky, and you know this, you study the
league as well for a long time. I think things
do change. I don't think they change in a revolutionary
way the way some people believe that they do. Um.
I can go back to when Mike mart started lining
(27:02):
up three and four wide receivers on first down, and
that seemed revolutionary at the time. Now, obviously that's part
of the NFL. Just like uh, you know, I think
there'll be some things that are happening now that will
be part of the league. UM. I think it was
a game with two really good offenses against for the
most part, two not very good defenses, and I think
(27:26):
it was just one of those games. I think there's
a people element to this as well as a tactical element,
particularly when you talk about the Chiefs um the Rams
to me, and I don't know how you feel, Buck.
You study this really hard as well. I don't think
what the Rams do is particularly revolutionary. I think that
they've taken some things and tweaked them, but I don't
think they're doing anything that has not been seen before
(27:50):
or is is you know, so unique that that it's
changing the game? You know, I think they do tight splits.
I think they do outside zone run action. I think
they do jet sweep action. They expand the field horizontally,
they stretch it vertically, and they create space in the middle.
I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see
that as revolutionary. Maybe great cost join us here on
(28:12):
Fox Sports Radio. Maybe you've answered the question. Who's tougher
to copycat than the Chiefs are the Rams? If you're
another team, well, I think you can copy what the
Rams do, and a lot of teams do. They're trying to.
You see a lot more tight or minus splits with
wide receivers in the league. And you know, that's something
that I know Bucky has talked about a lot and
written about a lot, because there's there's specific advantages that
(28:34):
that gives you and and I think it makes it
more difficult for defenses. Um, as far as the Chiefs,
you know, I think the Chiefs are very much a
people offense that is well schemed. Um. Patrick Mahomes is
a really really dynamic thrower of the football. There's not
a lot of guys and sometimes we oversee this. But
(28:56):
I think in the case of Mahomes, it's true there's
not a lot of guys who can throw it like
Drick Mahomes. But then you get to the people business.
You have Kelsey, you have Hill, you have Hunt. You
know even I mean Sammy Watkins has not played much
the last couple of weeks, but you could look at
Sammy Watkins as the fourth weapon in that offense. So, uh,
(29:17):
you know, I know there's been a lot of talking, Bucky.
You've probably talked about this too, about people saying that
NFL coaches don't know how to deal with this and
they should take a page from college coaches. That's all
well and good, but it's still a people business at times,
and the Chiefs just have really good people. Now, I
think you hit the nail on the head. Uh had
(29:37):
an old coach tell me as players not plays. The
kan City Chiefs offense is a player offense based on
the guys that they have. They build around their talents
and they come away to make it work with the Rams.
The Rams are doing stuff that Joe Gibbs used to
do back with the Redskins in terms of like x
over z Over's fourth flow, play action at that other stuff. So, uh,
(30:01):
it is unique and seeing teams copy from that. I
think the one thing that does come from watching those
teams play, good coaches can really elevate the way your
quarterback plays. I agree when I look at New Orleans
and I'm looking at what Drew Brees is doing, how
much is Sean Payton helping Drew Brees play at a
high level at this age? Well, I think we've said
(30:21):
that for a lot of years. I mean, you know,
and again, I think Drew Brees has been really special
for a lot of years, and we can say that, hey,
maybe this year he's even a little better. But I
don't think he's any different necessarily. I think what they
what teams have really done and and this is something
I've really noticed on tape with all teams, but I
think these Saints are uniquely equipped to handle this is
(30:44):
you see so many teams now attack the boundary side
of the field, the short side of the field, because
what happens with defenses is even when they're playing his
Zonn concepts, they tend to match up to the boundary
side of the field. And when the Saints put Kamara
and very often Michael Thomas to that short side of
the field, of boundary side, which they do quite a bit.
(31:05):
It's really difficult to match up. Kamara, to me, is
such a nightmare player for defense is to have to
match up to um. You know, I know he doesn't
carry twenty times a game, but I think his talent
is is really special, even as a runner and and
certainly we know as a receiver. But you know, that's
another part of the game that changes, this sort of
(31:25):
focus on attacking the boundary side of the field and dictating,
you know, creating and dictating matchups. Greg go Sell of
NFL Films joining us here on the Doug Gottlib Show.
He's Bucky Brooks. I'm Dan Buyer in for Doug today.
What about the team the Saints just beat. That'd be
the Philadelphia Eagles. We touched on it a bit earlier
in the show. But why haven't they been able to
get Golden Tate involved since he was acquired via a
(31:47):
trade and get that running game going. What's the problem
with the Eagles? You know, it's very difficult for me
to be speak about the Golden Tate. We heard Mike
grow make a comment about it earlier this week. I
was a little surprised and missed a find by that comment,
but you know, he certainly is there every day coaching
the players. I think overall, the Eagles don't have very
(32:07):
many dimensions on the offensive side of the ball. And
I think because they're a Super Bowl champion, uh and
obviously you can't take that away from him, there's this
sense that they're a great team. But I think when
you look at the Eagles, they're very limited at running back.
They have no vertical dimension whatsoever offensively, and I think
it's very hard in today's NFL to be dynamic offensively
(32:28):
without a vertical dimension. Their tight end is really good,
but he's a certain kind of tight end. In other words,
he can't do what let's say Travis Kelsey can do
as far as matchups and stretching the field. Um Alshon
Jeffrey is a nice receiver, but but again there's no
dynamic element to him. So I think they're very limited
offensively without the needed dimensions to be that good, you know,
(32:51):
and in in terms of another offense that appears to
be very, very limited and not dynamic. The conversation in
Green Bay with Mike mc arthy and Aaron Rodgers. Uh
people are saying Mike McCarthy is not doing enough for
Aaron Rodgers. When you look at the tape of the Packers,
what do you see from their offense? Well, I think, Bucky,
they've always been and I know you you've studied as well.
(33:13):
I think they've always been more based in the past
game on individual isolation routes as opposed to route integration
with two three man route concepts. And then then it
comes down to people. And I think Davante Adams is
a very good receiver who can line up anywhere in
the formation, but they haven't had much in recent years.
Cobb has been in and out of the lineup. I
(33:34):
think he's a good slot receiver win healthy, but now
we don't know what he is because he hasn't been
healthy that much. Um. Obviously, they've got the kid Val
desk handling, who is a vertical dimension and a strider
who I think can give them something, but he needs
to be worked in. Uh So, I think that's always
been the issue, is the fact that they just haven't
(33:56):
had receivers who in a sense can win one on
one and create separ ration on a consistent basis. Because
that's what they ask their receivers to do for the
most part. And you know, you go back to teams
that have had really good receivers. You think back to
the Colts with Peyton Manning. They did a lot of
isolation routes, one on one individual routes, but they had
Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and then you can win those,
(34:17):
and then you had a quarterback who would always throw
the ball. Aaron Rodgers is a very unique quarterback because
he'll leave things on the field and make something out
of nothing. But there's also at times he'll make nothing
out of something because he's not necessarily a rhythm player
at his core. Greg Coseel joining us here on Fox
Sports Radio. I'm Dan Buyer, He's Bucky brooks Is. We're
(34:37):
in for Doug today. We touched on this earlier with
the Bears third best record in the NFC. Do you
think they're the third best team in the NFC? Uh.
I think they're very good on defense. Uh, they can
rush the quarterback. I think that to me. Vic Fangio
is as good as there is with what he does. Uh.
(34:57):
In the secondary, I mean when you talk about sort
of coverage disguise man coverage, matsub matchups, own principles, blurring
the coverage lines. Uh, because all he's hoping for is
that the quarterback has to wait that extra beat because
with Mac, with Hicks, uh, they can get to the quarterback.
So I think they're really good on defense. Um, you know, offensively,
(35:19):
they're clearly a work in progress. I mean, they've got
a young quarterback who's still erratic, still up and down. Um,
their run game is not quite you know what it
what they'd like it to be. I'm sure. So I
think I think their offense is a week to week proposition,
and I think their defense is very good. He's Greg
co Sell of NFL Films. We appreciate the time, Greg,
(35:40):
thanks so much. Have a great Thanksgiving, and uh yeah,
enjoy the turkey and football tomorrow. I will be eating
a lot tomorrow, guys. That's my goal. That's my objective,
and I'm you know what I'm gonna. I'm gonna reach
that objective. You know, it's not just tomorrow, it's my
goal every single day. Well, I try not to do that,
but you know, hey, we all have our own priorities.
Hit Greg, have a great thanks guys, have a great
(36:01):
antae
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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