September 26, 2019 • 40 mins
With the Eagles taking on the Packers, Doug tells you why Carson Wentz doesn’t deserve blame for Philadelphia’s slow start. He talks to NFL Insider Jason La Canfora about Chargers RB Melvin Gordon ending his contract hold out. Plus, Cy Young winner and World Series champ Barry Zito joins the show to talk about his struggle with life after baseball and his incredible career.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
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(00:22):
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(00:44):
Jason lock Camp four is gonna join us in fifteen minutes.
Oh what a holdout, it was, Sir Melvin Gordon right like,
it's not quite Antonio Brown here. Take thirty million dollars
from me, but no, take a million dollars and you're
kind of right back in uh the place you were
before the season began. So Melvin Gordon will report to
the Chargers today. Not likely not to play this weekend,
(01:07):
although again in the you should have played this weekend
if you're trying to get paid. They're playing the Dolphins,
arguably the worst team in the Nation Football League. You
would think could have reported earlier this week just shows
what a terrible plan it was tonight Thursday Night Football.
And I am very, very jealous. I have never been
(01:28):
to lambeau Field. I want to go to lambeau Field.
The game is on Fox. I probably could have gone
and gotten sideline passes. But the deadweight I'm dragging is
all of you. Right, Let's just be honest, it's all
of you. Ramos won't get on a plane music so
fiance he's got him sh Buyer, who's from Wisconsin, never
(01:52):
offered up his parents basement for us to hang in.
And we can't go anywhere without Elijah. He's the head
of digital here and he comes rolling in two minutes
for the show and he's like, we can't go to
Green Bay because I gotta do stuff from here. I
where I'm I'm an l A guy. So I'm super
jealous of of of the Fox crew tonight. But there
(02:13):
is something interesting about these games, right, There's something super interesting.
And here's what it is. We make outlandish and bold
statements about these games, even though it's Thursday night football,
even though there's less time to prepare. Why because they're
the only game on right. Like, I got a question
(02:36):
for you. I asked, the prevailing wisdom, is Carson Wentz
playing great? Why? Because well, we've seen some red zone highlights,
we've seen some regular highlights. We've seen Twitter and people saying,
look at the numbers, he's not playing all that well.
I asked Daniel Jeremiah from the NFL Network about why
(02:58):
Carson Paul, Carson Way, Carson Palm are also not playing well,
but he's also not playing football. Why Carson Wentz isn't
playing well? He had this to say, I think Carson
Wentz played really well. I think he's played like M
v P caliber level. Well, that's seven drop balls in
that game the other day. I think he's the least
of their problems. They can't rush the passer. That's that's
(03:19):
their that's their issue right now. They've got to find
a way to get home because, in Jim Schwartz's defense,
if your front four doesn't get home, I mean, that's
the that's the that's the lifeblood of that scheme. So
they don't have the secondary personnel on the outside of
the corner position to hold up if their fronts not
getting home. And uh and right now that hasn't happened.
So that's that's issue number one for the Philadelphia Eagles. Yeah.
(03:40):
J J ruhar Sega Whiteside, the kid from Stanford, dropped
a forty yard bomb from Wentz fourth and fifteen forty
nine seconds remaining as they trailed by three. This followed
uh an O p I call on Darren Sprawls, which
was an absolute. See he threw it back shoulder to
(04:01):
Darren Sprawls on fourth and five and Darren Sprails just
pushed off to get open and probably didn't have to
because it's a back shoulder throw. There were other drops
in the game, and you go back even the Atlanta game,
remember one to Go Nelson Aglar dropped an absolute a
seed touchdown pass in his hands against Cover two. Or
then you go to the final offensive play where Zach Hurtz,
(04:24):
you know, runs a little little dig route and is
short of the sticks on fourth down. But because and
look that was a Sunday night game. We did watch
that game. But because there is so much else going on,
on Sundays. We're not hyper focused. We're not hyper focused,
(04:45):
whereas on a Thursday night, the first Thursday night on
Fox Buck Aikman, Um and Crew and company. Well, we're
gonna pay attention be because it's wins who would have
won the highest We don't win the hipan the m
v P two years ago. They did win the Super
Bowl two years ago against the former m v P
(05:08):
with a new offense that also isn't clicking. We're gonna
make huge outlandish statements. Packers win a night four, No,
Packers lose a night all of a sudden, there's issues
with their offense not fitting um Aaron Rodgers. Eagles lose
tonight one in three, look at the Cowboys three and oh,
(05:29):
they're never gonna win the division. Will make outlandish statements
based upon tonight. But but we we've done this with Wentz.
Even when they had Nick Foles right like, they could
have kept Nick Foles. They could have kept Nick Foles
as the only the backup they could have part of
ways with Carson Wentz. But they gave Carson Wentz the
(05:52):
biggest contract at the time we've ever seen the sport.
Why because they know he's a dude, they're well aware,
they know exactly what they have, exactly what his ceiling is.
They didn't overvalue it. Okay, he may not be as
incredible guy as Nick Foles. Stick Fols is like a
you've worked with some of these guys that zero people
(06:13):
on Earth don't like him. And because because he's kind
of been through the ringer in the NFL I mean,
Frankly played for Jeff Fisher as his coachman. There you go, right,
offensive offensive system of Jeff Fishers. Hey, you guys, go
out and get open. We'll see if we can get
you the ball. I like Jeff Fisher, but that offense
Jared Goff and uh and Nick Foles might tell you otherwise.
(06:39):
So I just I look at this and I say,
the Eagles know they have a stud, so too to
the Packers. Packers have a better defense than the Eagles
right now. The Eagles haven't been healthy without all Sean
Jeffrey and de Sean Jackson. Of course, Joshan Jeffrey is
supposed to be back tonight. It should be a great
football game. The Packers should win playing at home, and
they haven't done anything offensive in their defense is way
(07:02):
better than most people expected it. By the way, why
I picked them to go to the Super Bowl because
I knew I've seen what they've done defensively, and everyone
I know in the NFL is like, you know, it's
a really good defensive coordinator as Mike Petton, like he's legit.
But whatever happens to night will be massive overstatement night.
And if you don't believe me, think about what's happened
(07:25):
in all of these standalone games. Marcus Mariotte is done, why, well,
he played terrible last Thursday night. Jacksonville is back. Why
because they were Saxonville last Thursday night. I mean Sunday night.
We're ripping the Browns because the Browns the Monday night
before they played the Jets. But the sun and night
(07:46):
most recently, they they look like a flawed team. You know,
Monday after the Jets, it was boy the Jet. The
Giants are stupid to let O b J go because
ob J went crazy. Not you know, the Jets really stink.
They were on the third quarterback. So this is kind
of the nature of the beast, and it happens with
(08:09):
any of these standalone games. Happens in college football, right
like a Notre Dame game that's at two thirty Eastern
time and gets covered up by all the SEC and
Big ten, Big twelve games. Not that big a deal.
Night game under lights against an SEC FO where everybody's watching,
and it was only up against I think Texas and
Oklhoma State on Network TV. Now you're like, oh, Notre
(08:30):
Dame is pretty good. Yeah, well, they were pretty good
in the semifinals last year, maybe better than Alabama. They're
pretty good two years ago against Georgia. Standalone games seem
to matter more in terms of the narrative. Maybe not
the reality of the sport, but the narrative. Carson Wentz
has been playing well, his wide receivers and defensive line
(08:52):
have been playing poorly. We'll see how he plays tonight.
Aaron Rodgers hasn't been playing great. The offense hasn't been
in rhythm. But of course if he plays well tonight,
all just forgotten why I stand alone game against the
Eagles and people think the Eagles defense is better than
it actually is. I mean, even if one in three
(09:13):
their season wouldn't be over. Remember they have the Giants
and the Redskins in their division. That's four wins. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Doug got Leap
Show weekdays at noon eastern three pm Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Jason Lackham
forward joins us in The Doug got Leap Show on
Fox Sports Radio. UM. I think nationally the narrative has
(09:35):
been that Carson Wentz isn't playing that well. Then we
see how many drops that they've had leading the league
and drop seven last week, a couple of game changers
in both of the past two games. Um, are the
Eagles concerned at all? Jason, No, no, no, no, no. Um,
they from a personnel standpoint haven't been able to be
who they'd like to be. That was a team I
(09:56):
saw him in the summer. I was like, my gosh,
the d line, the receivers, the tight ends, they're they're
deeper than they need and you know what now they're
not weeks in and they're not They literally couldn't run
certain packages, a lot of them, you know, from midway
through that Atlanta game and then also last week just
because they didn't they didn't have enough guys they could
(10:17):
trust at some of those very positions I noted, But
Carson Wentz kept them in all those games, made enough
plays frankly to win those games. And you factor in
injuries and some hit the offensive line as well, and
and mental mistakes and physical mistakes that others made. UM,
and you know that that's that, that's all it'll take.
(10:39):
UM And you know, in a lot of weeks. Um,
but no, they they I mean carr if you wire,
if you've watched these games, I mean Carson wentz Is
And if anything, maybe he's doing a little too much
at times, but understandably so because of you know, the
limitations that they've had from a roster standpoint at certain points. Um.
(11:00):
But no, they paid him for a reason, and um,
he's gonna be very very good for a long time.
On the other side, Aaron Rodgers offense stinks right, averaging
five yards five plays per possession, bottom league in almost
every offensive category. I'm wondering if Aaron Rodgers will really
Wayne Brady. And and by that I mean, like, look,
(11:22):
Wayne Brady, whose line is it? Anyway? He's amazing right
when it's improv he's incredible. Wayne Brady has never been
any in anything scripted that's decent at all. And you
know the way in which this new offense works is
they kind of want to stick to the script relatively speaking,
and Rogers seems to be struggling sticking to the script. No,
(11:44):
the whole offense is struggling. UM. I mean, like, if
anybody thinks Matt Lafleur was some offensive genius last year
in Tennessee, I would love to see the empirical evidence
on film or through a box score, or especially through
any sort of breakdown of trends and tendencies that would
make you think. So he ran the ball more than um,
(12:07):
you know, exotic smass mouth Mike mclarkey ran the ball.
He ran the ball more on first down and pretty
much anybody in the league. Um. And now he's got
a very different toy at quarterback, but I think some
of those tendencies are the same. And they're going to
have to to figure some things out. They've been bailed
out by the turnovers. Their points are off takeaways. They've
got a plus eight turnover ratio already. I don't believe
(12:29):
that's sustainable. Um, And they've needed and like all those points.
I mean they're three and oh, but they're going thirty
out three and out thirty percent at the time. UM.
Their yards per play in the second half, the second
worst in the league to only the Jets five point
nine yards per play. As the game flow changes and
as you get off your script, they haven't had anything
(12:50):
that's really working for him outside of the occasional long
run that they might spring. Um. I have some concerns
about that. The defense, though, is much better, and a
you know, much like Cleveland. They all just sort of,
you know, are putting this thing together and it's in
the very early stages. But a quarterback that good, I mean, yeah,
I don't. I mean, I know he's not what he
(13:12):
was five years ago, just physically and some of the
injuries he's had and everything. But you know, great left tackle,
really solid offensive line, um enough around him. They shouldn't
be being compared to the Jets offense in any way,
shape or form, and their numbers are a lot closer
than the Jets um than you would think. In a
lot of key metrics, I would say, there's nowhere to
(13:32):
go but up, and it probably will. UM, But I don't.
I just again, I go back to those interviews and
how four hours with Matt Lafleur had them convinced that
he's the guy for the next ten years. That one
left me scratching my head and we'll just have to
see how that plays out. Jason looking forward joining us
in the Doug Gotlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. You know,
(13:52):
so oftentimes we we we want to we want to
believe that there's a new era in the NFL. Guys
can hold out, can have power, can force their way out.
Jayalen Ramsey hasn't been traded now today Melvin Gordon is
back with the l A Chargers. Uh, let's start with
Melvin Gordon. The held out, hold out gone wrong. I
know his people are trying to sell it as well.
(14:14):
It could be unrestricted free agent at the end of
the year, but they can just franchise tag him. He
just lost. He just lost in this thing. Nothing really
has changed other than he lost. Yeah. I mean he's healthy,
which I guess you could say, well, he might have
got hurt in camp, and he might have got hurt
in the first three weeks. But there was not a
whole lot to be gained here. Trade never looked all
that viable and the current climate, especially with the financial
(14:35):
compensation attached, the Chargers weren't just going to give him away.
And it was pretty clear that he had to come
back this year, you know, by November, or he wouldn't
be able to play this year and he would be
right back where he started, you know, a year older,
but same a free agent status, you know, same accrued seasons,
playing on the exact same contract. That would have just
told So, no, there wasn't a whole lot to be gained,
(15:00):
to be honest with you, Um, it's one thing to
be you know, a Levian Bell, who you know is
when those coming off years in Pittsburgh where he was
doing things in terms of scrimmage yards that very few
guys have done. Um, you know. It's it's one thing
to be in Antonio Brown with a Hall of Fame resume.
It's it's another to be you know, a top ten
(15:21):
running back and a guy everybody loves and a dude
who's selfless and has played through injuries and is super
physical and has evolved in the passing game. But no
one's gonna say, you know, make the argument that Melvin
Gordon is one of the top five in the world
at what he does. Um, some of these other guys
in different situations could, Um, but I do. I will
say this, Like the bottom line is he's going to
make the Chargers a better football team, and that team
(15:44):
easily could be owing three if not for Adam Vin Terry.
And they've had the lead at halftime every week, yet
they're like twentieth in the league and rushing attempts, which
tells me they didn't trust the running game all that
much without him and a big, physical back like him,
with some of these leads could could certainly have helped
with them technic some of this stuff, staying more balanced,
um and and trying to impose their will only the
(16:04):
other team's defense, which given the state of their offensive line, UM,
they're not doing in the passing game so much. Yeah,
I look, I think they're the better team because of it.
But I think that that Melvin Gordon lost, he didn't
gain much of anything. I mean, I'm with you. If anything,
they also don't understand the coming back today. Should have
come back at the start of this week. At least
he could have gotten in on the you know the
everybody wants this is a stat pad game, right, you're
(16:26):
taking on the Miami Dolphin. Um, all right, let's let's
talk Jalen Ramsey. Now he's left the team because he's
having another kid. The Doug Marons got his back saying
this is a pre planned deal. But you know he
first he had a cold, then he had a bad back.
Now he's missed the team. Yeah, I mean they've got issues. Um,
there's issues between the player and the team. I don't
(16:48):
think that's a revelation. It dates back to last year.
It was accentuated with sort of the almost flippant nature
which the team declared, we're not paying this dude. Um,
and it manifests that it's off from the sidelines, you know,
a few weeks ago for all the sea and then
he had a combustible meeting with the team president Tom
Coughlin on top of that, and you know, not getting
(17:10):
two ones for him in the span of like three days.
Was it couldn't be like okay, Genie back in the bottom, Sorry, dude,
you know, just play it out like that. That's that
wasn't gonna fly, and it would be naive to think
that was going to fly. Um. I a lot of
time still now between now and the trade deadline. I
suspect that we see something every week unusual between Jalen
(17:32):
Ramsey and the Jags because he's not happy and he
lets you know, a long time ago, he wasn't happy
and he's not inclined to do a deal there, and
he thinks there's way more money on field and elsewhere
somewhere else, And by entertaining the trade demands, um, he
feels like he's close to the other side of the
rainbow than ever. So you know, sort of figuring this
out and squashing it or placating him on the fly
(17:55):
with something other than a trade isn't going to be easy. Uh. Yes.
So ultimately, does he stick and does he come back
and play? I mean I don't. I think for all sides,
it may not make sense for him to play this week.
He's barely been in the building, he's missed practice, um,
and you know, he gets hurt, and obviously it's it's
(18:16):
a lose for everybody, lose for him, lose for the team,
and you know, lose for their future of the Jags
because of what you might be able to get in
trade for a player who I don't ever think is
signing a long term extension there. Um, I think it
still ends up in the trade. I do. Jason lackett
Ford Joinius Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
(18:37):
I want to ask you about Lamar Jackson. You know
you've been bullish on Lamar. The Ravens have been bullish
on Lamar, and the numbers at the end of the
day against Kansa City didn't look at looked at bad.
The reality was there are two jump balls that weren't
good decisions that he got bailed out on and he
was back to the struggles in the short and intermediate
passing game, which is the you know, it's it's really
(18:57):
these two these teams at the bottom. Arizona's tear horible,
Miami's terrible. It's really hard to tell how good anybody
is when you play them. Where, where are they where?
What do they legitimately think? Lamar Jackson is eleven yards
per game on offense. I can tell you that it's
number one in the league. They scored four touchdowns on
the road. Um, they couldn't stop anybody, you know, uh,
(19:19):
And not that you're going to contain mahomes. But as
as much as they talk about their defense, and as
much as they told everybody in the media who would
fly into town or in my case, drive over the
facility watched them practice and say you had nobody who
will come close to Russian the pastor this year other
than at Judean. And that secondary might look really good
on paper right now, but it's long in the tooth
and some key spots. Jimmy Smith has always hurt. Cavin
(19:42):
Young has always hurt. The hurt again. And you will
get picked apart by anything other than average quarterbacks. Anybody
above average is gonna be going to pick you apart
because you're gonna have to bring six or seven to
get home. I think that's the reality. I mean, they
when they when they when they ran, when they got
back into twelve and thirty personnel in the second half,
they ran the ball down their throats and they got
(20:03):
back in the game. I think they came out a
little too cute and thinking we're gonna trade points and
we're gonna throw to set up the run um. That
kid is not going to be perfect, but I don't.
I mean from an offensive standpoint, they gotta get more
receivers involved in Hollywood like, it's not perfect, but the
problem and if there is a problem there, it's on
(20:24):
the other side of the ball. Because they're gonna score
mid twenties or low thirties on a lot of teams
in this league. Like, I don't know they're gonna do
that to New England, but they're gonna do it with
a lot of teams in this leagu They're gonna do
it with every team in their division. But can they
do You have to bring six to get any pressure
because if you do the Mahomes the Bradies, they're gonna
slay you. And that that's where I think the rubber
(20:47):
will meet the road with this team. Okay, how bad
are the problems with the Browns? Talk to me, Talk
to me a couple of weeks, um at one and two.
I'm not gonna go too crazy, but this is a
big game for them with Baltimore. UM. And I just
mentioned some of the flaws in Baltimore's defense, And is
this a get right game, um for for Baker Mayfield.
(21:10):
You know, Odell is a guy who they haven't played
them that much, but when they have played them in
the past, Um, he's he's destroyed them. Do they get
established or you know, do they do some different things
with Nick Chubb? Do they run more screens and quick
stuff and and up tempo quick stuff to try to
mitigate some of the issues with the offensive line. Um,
you know, we'll see this next four game stretch is
(21:31):
pretty daunting. I think they've got San Francisco, Seattle, and
New England after this. Uh, you go one and three
in that span. It's it's late. You know, it's late,
early two and five. I don't think they're gonna be
able to to get off the mat to the extent
that you're talking playoffs. Um, so let's see man again
very early there. I'm not gonna go crazy. The defense
(21:52):
has been absolutely stellar for the most part, and they
have the pieces on offense to be better than than
what they are. Do I think it would sense for them,
and would have made sense all along, to have Todd
Monkin call the plays and let Freddie do everything else
a head coach has to do. I do, Um. Do
I understand his unwillingness to entertain that three games into
(22:12):
his head coaching career, I do do. I think this
doesn't excuse me. The next four games go really bad
and we're at the middle of the year. Do I think, um,
that's gonna be something that he's facing more of. Absolutely,
you're only gonna have Tom Monkin for one year and
all likely, and I think he's gonna be a head
coach college a pro somewhere next year. You might as
(22:34):
well let him do what he does best and what
he's done much longer than the head coach has done. Yeah. No,
I I agree. It's one of the of the of
the risks they took hiring an inexperienced coach, but then
allowing that inexperienced coach to also call called plays something
that he's not terribly experiencing at all. Was those are
two to what seems like fatal flaws. Uh, thus far
(22:58):
Jason Luckham for a CBS Sports join us here on
the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Um, you know,
I look around this league and I do wonder, have
we seen the last cam of Cam Newton in the
Carolina Panther uniform too? Quicker reaction what happened in Arizona
last week? I think that's one where I think we'll
(23:21):
probably have our answer come there by week. Um that
you know, as I was reporting last week, this was
at least a several weeks situation. They were not going
to put Cam back there in a week or two
have him reaggravate that thing. And now we're going to
a specialist every week, and it's an ongoing saga. So
Kyle Allen is going to get to three games at
the very least. At this point, I think he's gonna
(23:42):
get They have a game in week six in London.
You're not gonna bring Cam back and practice, you know
what I mean, on all these different surfaces. You're not
used to halfway across the world and have him come
back for that game. And then you've got extended break
after that, where I think if Kyle Allen keeps producing
the way he is, then it goes from a medical
situation to kind of like Lamar and Flacco last year,
(24:02):
where you know, it was Flacco's hint was going to
be a good three four weeks probably no matter what,
and then it got the week, you know, five and
six weeks and Lamar's rolling, and it was even though
they didn't admitute the time for another two or three weeks,
it was already a football decision. And then it gets
around the being obvious. Now I don't I don't know
how this kid's gonna perform um, but I'm super intrigued
by him. The more work I do on him, the
(24:24):
more people I talked to about him, the less I
think that he's a too too hit wonder or I guess,
in this case, a two game wonder. Yeah, me too.
I'm fascinated to see exactly what happens next. And they
do have some really good personnel around him, which feels
like he fits better than Camp fits in terms of
pushing the ball downfield the more and Curtis Samuel and
those guys. Um, it was it was pretty impressive. Um.
(24:49):
I mean to your point, you know about Baltimore, they
Caroline's offense against Arizona looked better than Baltimore. You know,
the Baltimore game against Arizona was where Lamar had a
run for one twenty. Uh So, you know, I can't
I can't discount what Kyle Ollen did on the road
against an NFL team. I mean, I'm not gonna go
crazy about it, but it fits with the narrative I'm
(25:09):
hearing about what his high end potential might be if
everything goes right. Can you think of a bigger one
eighty than what Giants fans have done with Daniel Jones.
I mean, it was pretty wild being in the city
on Sunday and being in studio and you know, we're right,
you know, fifty seventh and tents, and you know, all
(25:30):
the guys on the crew and lighting guys and camera
guys and floor guys. There's a lot of hardcore Giants
fans who have basically just been sort of sitting on
their hands and gutting it out through these games the
last four years because there's been nothing to see here.
And I mean we almost had people screaming on air
a couple of times doing highlights because people, you know,
like the crew, everybody was just incredibly fired. I mean
(25:52):
energy in the city and the being in a cab
going to Penn Station and watching people coming out of
bars with their giant stuff on High five and it
was palpable, man um. And I just think people at
this point, we're just beaten down and ready for something else.
Like if we're not gonna be any good, let's just
be good different. Let's be good athletic, let's be good
booting out, let's be good slinging at fifty yards. I mean,
(26:15):
let's you know, if we're gonna be bad, and we're
gonna be bad, let's be bad in all those different
ways rather than what this has become. Um. And you know,
the kid has yet to show anything other than uh
significant potential. But I don't think that excuses the twenty
three and a half million dollars to ELI, all the
reps this kid didn't get in the summer because you
(26:37):
had ELI, Um some of the personnelity changes you've made
and the guys you've passed on the last couple of
years because you have ELI, and the fact that they
hedged their bets as long as they could possibly hedge them.
You can't. You can't act like there was great conviction
or this was the plan all along. Otherwise you would
have reallocated assets from draft trade and financially in a
(26:59):
much different way than they did. So they can't have
it both ways in that regard. But if this kid
is who he looks like he might be, nobody's gonna
care a year from now. Awesome stuff. Jason Lacamphora from
CBS Sports. Tell everybody in that studio, I said hello,
and we'll talk. We'll talk soon. Sounds good, but thank you.
Be sure to catch live edition. So the Doug Got
Leaps show week days at noon eastern three pm Pacific.
(27:21):
He's a cy Young Award winner, a World Series champion,
he's bury Zito. He joins us on the Doug gott
Leap Show. In his new book is called Curveball How
I Discovered Fulfillment after Chasing fortune and fame. Barry, thanks
so much for taking time. I want to get into
your new book in a moment. But with the A's
clinching a playoff spot last night, what what memories are
stirred up for you? Yeah? Well, first, I mean, you know,
(27:44):
Billy Bean and and all the way down they've just
figured out some type of formula for you know, having
having good quality budgets and and even better teams and
somehow they just managed to do it every year. I mean,
it's just incredible for me. So um, you know, all
those good link stirrup when I start watching them going
into playoffs again. And that's what we were doing in
(28:04):
two thousand and all those years. And uh, you know,
there's just nothing like playoff baseball, and especially in the coliseum. Man, Yeah,
you mentioned nothing like playoff baseball where every pitch does
in fact matter. Um, if you could take a pit
is there a pitch you would take back from the
playoffs that year? Oh? Yeah, I would take Uh, let's see,
(28:25):
it was two thousand and three. Uh, and it was
Game five of the A L d S. I was
pitching against Pedro Martinez and I gave up a three
run homer to Manny Ramirez. I'll never forget it. He
uh he hit the homer, and I was watching the
ball go over the left field wall, and of course
I turned back around, you know, five seconds later, and
he's not even a first base yet. So of course
I'm like, come on, man, get around those bases. But
(28:46):
I definitely would have taken that pitch back when when
you realize some of the things those hitters were doing
back in the day, Is there is there any uh,
is there any negative feelings about about the level of fairness,
about the level level playing field lack thereof you know,
It's funny because on this side of it, yeah, I
mean I definitely, I definitely do wish that, you know,
it was more of an even playing field, you know,
(29:07):
And that was kind of as I was coming up
and through most of my career was was in that era,
and of course at the time, we just didn't know.
It was just baseball as usual. And you know, I
think everything kind of happens perfectly the way I should
and we always learned from our mistakes and what we
can do better in the future. But um, I'm just
glad I didn't know at the time you went through
something a friend of mine went through in San Francisco,
(29:28):
where you want a World Series ring, but you didn't
pitch for the World series for somebody who's as accomplished
as you are, and you want to great pictures in
your era in the game. What's that like emotionally to
go through? I mean, it was the hardest time in
my life, you know, And and I get into these
kind of really dark details in the book about you know,
(29:49):
I lost my mother in o AID and I lost
my father in thirteen. But you know, I gotta be honest,
nothing rocked me to the core, like you know, being
left off that World Series roster and watching my him
when the exact World Series that I was paid to
bring over there, you know, to bring them to as
a giant, and uh, you know, for me, it kind
of it just cracked my whole worldview. Everything I thought
(30:11):
I knew about life and and myself just fell apart.
And you know I had to pick those pieces back up.
Good books called Curveball by Berries, you know, how I
discovered true fulfillment after chasing fortune and fame. He joins
us in the Doug Gotlip Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
A good portion of it is dedicated to your relationship
with your father. What was what was he like with
when you were growing up. Yeah, I mean, you know,
(30:34):
my father was an incredible, you know, loving, supportive father,
and you know, he had his own kind of darkness
that he came from. He actually was a product of
a rape back when he was born. His his mother
was a fourteen year old girl who actually got assaulted
by her stepfather. And so, you know, writing a little
bit about where he came from and the shame that
he grew up in, and of course they were trying
(30:55):
to hide him in the back of the you know,
in the house in New York when family would come over,
because he was kind of just a forgotten child, and so,
you know, he had his own journeys with self worth,
and I think he unconsciously, you know, transferred those onto me,
and so I ended up trying to perform, you know,
for approval to him and the world in my career.
You know. It's interesting. So, so my dad obviously did
(31:16):
not have that sort of upbringing. But he was you know,
he was a walk on in college playing basketball, and
he became a high school coach, became a college coach,
and like he was, he was my mentor growing up.
And I don't know, you know, he passed away a
couple of years ago. I don't know. You know, some
would say he tried to live through me. Um. I
(31:36):
just think he tried to give me opportunities he he
thought he deserved and he didn't get. But it wasn't
It was a it was a complex relationship and it's
one now. My son is a left handed pitcher. He's
a very good athlete, and it's one that's really as
a father, how do you parent in comparison to how
your dad parented? Yeah, I mean it's a great question.
(31:57):
And I think that you know, as as parents that
were one children, you know, we try to undo some
of the damage that was done to us, even if
it was unconscious by our parents. And you know, for me,
I might go a little too far on the side of,
you know, don't push him into anything, because I know
some of the the you know, the backlash I guess
in me that happened from you know, almost on a
military schedule, you know, practicing baseball for so many years. Um,
(32:20):
So for me, I I you know, I want my
son to do what he loves. And of course I'm
going to give him every every opportunity and all the support.
But I just don't want him to forget that, you know,
sports or whatever he gets into is you know, not
as important as as family and God and the real
stuff in life. You know, how did you how did
you find how do you find peace? Yeah? So for me,
(32:42):
you know, I get into a little bit of the
spiritual background for me, but I was raised in kind
of a different upbringing. And of course, you know, if
we focus on this and work hard enough, you know,
and we can we can have anything we want, you know,
if we just work hard enough. And so that was great,
you know, to see the world like that while I
was winning cy Young's and oak and but when everything
begin to collapse around me, you know in San Francisco, Uh,
(33:05):
I needed I needed help. I mean, I couldn't rely
on myself anymore. And and it took me a lot
of pain to get to that point where I could
admit that. But once I did, you know, in came
this kind of this greater strength and this relationship with God.
And you know, I think I was just too uh,
too cocky and arrogant to ever ask for help. What
about your music? How is? How has that helped? The
(33:26):
music was always a cathartic thing for me. You know,
I'd come home after these bad games for years in
San Francisco and pick up the guitar and just you know,
strum some chords or write some you know, some lyrics
or something and sing some melodies. And that was always
something that just balanced me because uh, well, you know,
I got into some other bad habits trying to escape
all the pain as well. But I don't know where
(33:48):
I'd be without that guitar. I'll tell you what, what's
the worst haven you get into? Um? I think trying
to escape all the you know, childhood, the military type
of practice regiment. You know, I got into some heavy
drugs in high school and selling drugs, and and then
you know, as an adult, I got into you know,
abusing certain things drugs and alcohol and and you know, um,
(34:11):
chasing women and just really hoping that everything would give
me that peace and contentment that I wanted. And of
course it wasn't anywhere. I thought it was going to
be in mansions and sports cars, and it was nowhere
to be found. Really and so how and so in addition,
you have religion, you have your kids, but you also
have your wife. How does how does that? How she
brought you balance? She just for me, She would just
(34:34):
enabled me to have perspective and to realize that, you know,
I had this death grip on you know, being successful
in the world and I needed that so bad, or
at least I thought I did. And so she really
helped me just to understand that, you know, there's this beautiful,
loving presence that you know, that I can come to
for help. And um, she actually told me one day,
(34:56):
I was surrounded in my you know, five or six
self help books, you know, from Barnes and Noble. I
was just on the bed reading all of them at
the same time, and she said, you need to put
all those books away and just read this book. And she,
you know, she handed me a Bible and that was
kind of the first time I ever did that. And
it was really interesting. Yeah, it's it's it's it's fascinating,
like like, this is a writing this book and it
(35:17):
had to be what was it? I mean, I'm sure
it was cathartic on some levels, But what's what's the
process like of going through so many, uh, really difficult
details at times to read when you consider what's being shared,
you know. For me, I mean, I just feel like
being authentic, being vulnerable, you know, those are the things
that that we can all identify with it. And I
(35:38):
know that when other people tell their story and they
just they don't hold anything back and they just talk
about the you know, the darkest, you know, worst corners
of their life and and things that you know, maybe
before they were ashamed to mention. I feel very connected
and I see myself in the story, and so that
was my goal, was just to share everything and you know,
talk about the worst times when you know, as rooting
(36:00):
against my own team, you know, because my ego was
just panicking and you know, just bad dark stuff. But um,
I feel like there's so much growth we can make
as as people, you know, when we share that stuff.
All Right, I gotta ask l baseball questions here. Yeah, Uh,
the curveball, right, I mean, you're forever known for having
one of the remarkable curveballs in Major League Baseball history.
(36:23):
All right, you you're you're on the mound, you're in
the stretch. Um, take me through the process of throwing
a curveball. Yeah, so you know, um, well you just
have to obviously, you gotta have confidence in it, you
gotta trust it. But more than anything, it's just about rotation. Um.
The faster you make that ball rotate and the tighter
you know, it spins on that axis, the more it's
(36:45):
going to cut through the air and drop. So you know,
for me, whenever I lost my curveball, I would actually
tape two baseballs together with athletic tape and try to
flip it so it perfectly rotated end over end. And uh,
you know, my thought process was pulled down on that
scene as hard as you possibly can and hear that
perfect little you know, that noise right off the top
(37:06):
of that scene right there. Yeah. The So obviously it's
not with you as I tended to. It's a what
is it? What I'm trying to think? Six twelve to six?
So what's your what's your grip? Like? My grip was
actually learned how to throw that pitch from this book
called The Art of Pitching that Tom Siever wrote, and
(37:26):
as a kid I picked it up and there was
a picture of a curveball, but it was gripped by
a right handed pitcher, and so I gripped it with
my left hand and probably got it backwards, and I
ended up holding it, you know, differently than I hold Thanny,
than I've ever met, you know, a curveball pitcher in
my life. But it worked for me and the way
I gripped it as I just held it on the
left side of the horseshoe, and I would split the
(37:46):
scene with my first and second finger, and most pictures
would throw it off their second finger, but I threw
it off my first finger. Huh, that is interesting. Most
of them are our second fingers. So there's a little
Jimmie Hendricks to it. Right like Jimmie Hendricks left handed,
and he would instead of a left handing guitar, did
he play the guitar upside down? Wasn't that? Wasn't that his?
I think that that was his thing. So there's a
little bit. There's a little bit of that, and how
(38:07):
you learn to play a creer like instead of learning
to throw a curveball like a lefty, you learned throw
a curveball like a right even though you're left handed.
That's great, that's totally dead on man. Yeah, I think
he picked he I think he played a right handed
guitar upside down because that's the only one he could
afford at the time and it just worked out perfect
for him. Um. What what is that feeling like to
throw the perfect curveball where you literally see the guy's
(38:29):
knees buckle or they just there think maybe they're thinking fastball,
especially it's a it's a lefty and he thinks it's
coming right at him. What is, honest to goodness, what's
that feeling like? Yeah? I mean that there was really
no film like that in the world. Um, and I
think for me it was it was one thing to
make the left hander kind of buckle and duck out
of the way because he thought he was getting hit
with the ball, you know, in the head or the shoulder.
(38:50):
But when you could make the right handed hitter get
the jelly legs and flinch, that's when you knew something
was right. Man. That is is so awesome. Um. You
obviously ended your career as an a you know the
seven innings, uh in your last season coming back through
through through triple A. UM playoff season, they're back Bocchi Bocchi.
(39:11):
By the way, he's gonna retire, which is just crazy, right,
I mean, just amazing a guy I thought would never
although when you see him move to the mountain back
you realize why he's he's shutting it down. Um, will
you do you still have a love for baseball? Like
do you? Because I know some guys when things end poorly,
they don't they won't watch anymore. Playoff baseball aser on
will you watch? Yeah? Absolutely, Man, I'm so grateful that
(39:35):
I have a good relationship with the game. And you know,
fans may not understand how you know it feels sometimes
when you you don't really do all the things you
want to do in your career, and you know, even
with you know, financial freedom and uh World Series rings,
you know, it can be hard to watch the game
because it's a reminder of what you didn't do. But
for me, I'm really at a place where I can
(39:55):
accept my story, you know, the good and the bad,
and know that I'm better for it. And man, baseball
just it's it's it calms me down when it's on
in the house. Man, I just feel something just goes down.
My blood pressure goes down. I think well. In the
book is the redemption of two thousand twelve, obviously, the
trials and tribulations you know, before and after the two
thousand ten playoffs, the stuff with your dad, the superstardom
(40:17):
and finding purpose in your life. It's an amazing book
and I can't believe you were man enough to share
it with the world. It's called Curveball How I Discovered
True Fulfillment After Chasing Fortune and Fame, authored by cy
Young Award winner and two time World Series Champion Barry Zito.
Very great to catch up. Thanks so much for joining us, Doug,
thanks so much for having me
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for the Doug Gottlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
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(00:22):
of the Doug Gotlive Show on Fox Sports Radio. Boom
Up America. Doug Gottleib Show, Fox Sports Radio, brought to
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(00:44):
Jason lock Camp four is gonna join us in fifteen minutes.
Oh what a holdout, it was, Sir Melvin Gordon right like,
it's not quite Antonio Brown here. Take thirty million dollars
from me, but no, take a million dollars and you're
kind of right back in uh the place you were
before the season began. So Melvin Gordon will report to
the Chargers today. Not likely not to play this weekend,
(01:07):
although again in the you should have played this weekend
if you're trying to get paid. They're playing the Dolphins,
arguably the worst team in the Nation Football League. You
would think could have reported earlier this week just shows
what a terrible plan it was tonight Thursday Night Football.
And I am very, very jealous. I have never been
(01:28):
to lambeau Field. I want to go to lambeau Field.
The game is on Fox. I probably could have gone
and gotten sideline passes. But the deadweight I'm dragging is
all of you. Right, Let's just be honest, it's all
of you. Ramos won't get on a plane music so
fiance he's got him sh Buyer, who's from Wisconsin, never
(01:52):
offered up his parents basement for us to hang in.
And we can't go anywhere without Elijah. He's the head
of digital here and he comes rolling in two minutes
for the show and he's like, we can't go to
Green Bay because I gotta do stuff from here. I
where I'm I'm an l A guy. So I'm super
jealous of of of the Fox crew tonight. But there
(02:13):
is something interesting about these games, right, There's something super interesting.
And here's what it is. We make outlandish and bold
statements about these games, even though it's Thursday night football,
even though there's less time to prepare. Why because they're
the only game on right. Like, I got a question
(02:36):
for you. I asked, the prevailing wisdom, is Carson Wentz
playing great? Why? Because well, we've seen some red zone highlights,
we've seen some regular highlights. We've seen Twitter and people saying,
look at the numbers, he's not playing all that well.
I asked Daniel Jeremiah from the NFL Network about why
(02:58):
Carson Paul, Carson Way, Carson Palm are also not playing well,
but he's also not playing football. Why Carson Wentz isn't
playing well? He had this to say, I think Carson
Wentz played really well. I think he's played like M
v P caliber level. Well, that's seven drop balls in
that game the other day. I think he's the least
of their problems. They can't rush the passer. That's that's
(03:19):
their that's their issue right now. They've got to find
a way to get home because, in Jim Schwartz's defense,
if your front four doesn't get home, I mean, that's
the that's the that's the lifeblood of that scheme. So
they don't have the secondary personnel on the outside of
the corner position to hold up if their fronts not
getting home. And uh and right now that hasn't happened.
So that's that's issue number one for the Philadelphia Eagles. Yeah.
(03:40):
J J ruhar Sega Whiteside, the kid from Stanford, dropped
a forty yard bomb from Wentz fourth and fifteen forty
nine seconds remaining as they trailed by three. This followed
uh an O p I call on Darren Sprawls, which
was an absolute. See he threw it back shoulder to
(04:01):
Darren Sprawls on fourth and five and Darren Sprails just
pushed off to get open and probably didn't have to
because it's a back shoulder throw. There were other drops
in the game, and you go back even the Atlanta game,
remember one to Go Nelson Aglar dropped an absolute a
seed touchdown pass in his hands against Cover two. Or
then you go to the final offensive play where Zach Hurtz,
(04:24):
you know, runs a little little dig route and is
short of the sticks on fourth down. But because and
look that was a Sunday night game. We did watch
that game. But because there is so much else going on,
on Sundays. We're not hyper focused. We're not hyper focused,
(04:45):
whereas on a Thursday night, the first Thursday night on
Fox Buck Aikman, Um and Crew and company. Well, we're
gonna pay attention be because it's wins who would have
won the highest We don't win the hipan the m
v P two years ago. They did win the Super
Bowl two years ago against the former m v P
(05:08):
with a new offense that also isn't clicking. We're gonna
make huge outlandish statements. Packers win a night four, No,
Packers lose a night all of a sudden, there's issues
with their offense not fitting um Aaron Rodgers. Eagles lose
tonight one in three, look at the Cowboys three and oh,
(05:29):
they're never gonna win the division. Will make outlandish statements
based upon tonight. But but we we've done this with Wentz.
Even when they had Nick Foles right like, they could
have kept Nick Foles. They could have kept Nick Foles
as the only the backup they could have part of
ways with Carson Wentz. But they gave Carson Wentz the
(05:52):
biggest contract at the time we've ever seen the sport.
Why because they know he's a dude, they're well aware,
they know exactly what they have, exactly what his ceiling is.
They didn't overvalue it. Okay, he may not be as
incredible guy as Nick Foles. Stick Fols is like a
you've worked with some of these guys that zero people
(06:13):
on Earth don't like him. And because because he's kind
of been through the ringer in the NFL I mean,
Frankly played for Jeff Fisher as his coachman. There you go, right,
offensive offensive system of Jeff Fishers. Hey, you guys, go
out and get open. We'll see if we can get
you the ball. I like Jeff Fisher, but that offense
Jared Goff and uh and Nick Foles might tell you otherwise.
(06:39):
So I just I look at this and I say,
the Eagles know they have a stud, so too to
the Packers. Packers have a better defense than the Eagles
right now. The Eagles haven't been healthy without all Sean
Jeffrey and de Sean Jackson. Of course, Joshan Jeffrey is
supposed to be back tonight. It should be a great
football game. The Packers should win playing at home, and
they haven't done anything offensive in their defense is way
(07:02):
better than most people expected it. By the way, why
I picked them to go to the Super Bowl because
I knew I've seen what they've done defensively, and everyone
I know in the NFL is like, you know, it's
a really good defensive coordinator as Mike Petton, like he's legit.
But whatever happens to night will be massive overstatement night.
And if you don't believe me, think about what's happened
(07:25):
in all of these standalone games. Marcus Mariotte is done, why, well,
he played terrible last Thursday night. Jacksonville is back. Why
because they were Saxonville last Thursday night. I mean Sunday night.
We're ripping the Browns because the Browns the Monday night
before they played the Jets. But the sun and night
(07:46):
most recently, they they look like a flawed team. You know,
Monday after the Jets, it was boy the Jet. The
Giants are stupid to let O b J go because
ob J went crazy. Not you know, the Jets really stink.
They were on the third quarterback. So this is kind
of the nature of the beast, and it happens with
(08:09):
any of these standalone games. Happens in college football, right
like a Notre Dame game that's at two thirty Eastern
time and gets covered up by all the SEC and
Big ten, Big twelve games. Not that big a deal.
Night game under lights against an SEC FO where everybody's watching,
and it was only up against I think Texas and
Oklhoma State on Network TV. Now you're like, oh, Notre
(08:30):
Dame is pretty good. Yeah, well, they were pretty good
in the semifinals last year, maybe better than Alabama. They're
pretty good two years ago against Georgia. Standalone games seem
to matter more in terms of the narrative. Maybe not
the reality of the sport, but the narrative. Carson Wentz
has been playing well, his wide receivers and defensive line
(08:52):
have been playing poorly. We'll see how he plays tonight.
Aaron Rodgers hasn't been playing great. The offense hasn't been
in rhythm. But of course if he plays well tonight,
all just forgotten why I stand alone game against the
Eagles and people think the Eagles defense is better than
it actually is. I mean, even if one in three
(09:13):
their season wouldn't be over. Remember they have the Giants
and the Redskins in their division. That's four wins. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Doug got Leap
Show weekdays at noon eastern three pm Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Jason Lackham
forward joins us in The Doug got Leap Show on
Fox Sports Radio. UM. I think nationally the narrative has
(09:35):
been that Carson Wentz isn't playing that well. Then we
see how many drops that they've had leading the league
and drop seven last week, a couple of game changers
in both of the past two games. Um, are the
Eagles concerned at all? Jason, No, no, no, no, no. Um,
they from a personnel standpoint haven't been able to be
who they'd like to be. That was a team I
(09:56):
saw him in the summer. I was like, my gosh,
the d line, the receivers, the tight ends, they're they're
deeper than they need and you know what now they're
not weeks in and they're not They literally couldn't run
certain packages, a lot of them, you know, from midway
through that Atlanta game and then also last week just
because they didn't they didn't have enough guys they could
(10:17):
trust at some of those very positions I noted, But
Carson Wentz kept them in all those games, made enough
plays frankly to win those games. And you factor in
injuries and some hit the offensive line as well, and
and mental mistakes and physical mistakes that others made. UM,
and you know that that's that, that's all it'll take.
(10:39):
UM And you know, in a lot of weeks. Um,
but no, they they I mean carr if you wire,
if you've watched these games, I mean Carson wentz Is
And if anything, maybe he's doing a little too much
at times, but understandably so because of you know, the
limitations that they've had from a roster standpoint at certain points. Um.
(11:00):
But no, they paid him for a reason, and um,
he's gonna be very very good for a long time.
On the other side, Aaron Rodgers offense stinks right, averaging
five yards five plays per possession, bottom league in almost
every offensive category. I'm wondering if Aaron Rodgers will really
Wayne Brady. And and by that I mean, like, look,
(11:22):
Wayne Brady, whose line is it? Anyway? He's amazing right
when it's improv he's incredible. Wayne Brady has never been
any in anything scripted that's decent at all. And you
know the way in which this new offense works is
they kind of want to stick to the script relatively speaking,
and Rogers seems to be struggling sticking to the script. No,
(11:44):
the whole offense is struggling. UM. I mean, like, if
anybody thinks Matt Lafleur was some offensive genius last year
in Tennessee, I would love to see the empirical evidence
on film or through a box score, or especially through
any sort of breakdown of trends and tendencies that would
make you think. So he ran the ball more than um,
(12:07):
you know, exotic smass mouth Mike mclarkey ran the ball.
He ran the ball more on first down and pretty
much anybody in the league. Um. And now he's got
a very different toy at quarterback, but I think some
of those tendencies are the same. And they're going to
have to to figure some things out. They've been bailed
out by the turnovers. Their points are off takeaways. They've
got a plus eight turnover ratio already. I don't believe
(12:29):
that's sustainable. Um, And they've needed and like all those points.
I mean they're three and oh, but they're going thirty
out three and out thirty percent at the time. UM.
Their yards per play in the second half, the second
worst in the league to only the Jets five point
nine yards per play. As the game flow changes and
as you get off your script, they haven't had anything
(12:50):
that's really working for him outside of the occasional long
run that they might spring. Um. I have some concerns
about that. The defense, though, is much better, and a
you know, much like Cleveland. They all just sort of,
you know, are putting this thing together and it's in
the very early stages. But a quarterback that good, I mean, yeah,
I don't. I mean, I know he's not what he
(13:12):
was five years ago, just physically and some of the
injuries he's had and everything. But you know, great left tackle,
really solid offensive line, um enough around him. They shouldn't
be being compared to the Jets offense in any way,
shape or form, and their numbers are a lot closer
than the Jets um than you would think. In a
lot of key metrics, I would say, there's nowhere to
(13:32):
go but up, and it probably will. UM, But I don't.
I just again, I go back to those interviews and
how four hours with Matt Lafleur had them convinced that
he's the guy for the next ten years. That one
left me scratching my head and we'll just have to
see how that plays out. Jason looking forward joining us
in the Doug Gotlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. You know,
(13:52):
so oftentimes we we we want to we want to
believe that there's a new era in the NFL. Guys
can hold out, can have power, can force their way out.
Jayalen Ramsey hasn't been traded now today Melvin Gordon is
back with the l A Chargers. Uh, let's start with
Melvin Gordon. The held out, hold out gone wrong. I
know his people are trying to sell it as well.
(14:14):
It could be unrestricted free agent at the end of
the year, but they can just franchise tag him. He
just lost. He just lost in this thing. Nothing really
has changed other than he lost. Yeah. I mean he's healthy,
which I guess you could say, well, he might have
got hurt in camp, and he might have got hurt
in the first three weeks. But there was not a
whole lot to be gained here. Trade never looked all
that viable and the current climate, especially with the financial
(14:35):
compensation attached, the Chargers weren't just going to give him away.
And it was pretty clear that he had to come
back this year, you know, by November, or he wouldn't
be able to play this year and he would be
right back where he started, you know, a year older,
but same a free agent status, you know, same accrued seasons,
playing on the exact same contract. That would have just
told So, no, there wasn't a whole lot to be gained,
(15:00):
to be honest with you, Um, it's one thing to
be you know, a Levian Bell, who you know is
when those coming off years in Pittsburgh where he was
doing things in terms of scrimmage yards that very few
guys have done. Um, you know. It's it's one thing
to be in Antonio Brown with a Hall of Fame resume.
It's it's another to be you know, a top ten
(15:21):
running back and a guy everybody loves and a dude
who's selfless and has played through injuries and is super
physical and has evolved in the passing game. But no
one's gonna say, you know, make the argument that Melvin
Gordon is one of the top five in the world
at what he does. Um, some of these other guys
in different situations could, Um, but I do. I will
say this, Like the bottom line is he's going to
make the Chargers a better football team, and that team
(15:44):
easily could be owing three if not for Adam Vin Terry.
And they've had the lead at halftime every week, yet
they're like twentieth in the league and rushing attempts, which
tells me they didn't trust the running game all that
much without him and a big, physical back like him,
with some of these leads could could certainly have helped
with them technic some of this stuff, staying more balanced,
um and and trying to impose their will only the
(16:04):
other team's defense, which given the state of their offensive line, UM,
they're not doing in the passing game so much. Yeah,
I look, I think they're the better team because of it.
But I think that that Melvin Gordon lost, he didn't
gain much of anything. I mean, I'm with you. If anything,
they also don't understand the coming back today. Should have
come back at the start of this week. At least
he could have gotten in on the you know the
everybody wants this is a stat pad game, right, you're
(16:26):
taking on the Miami Dolphin. Um, all right, let's let's
talk Jalen Ramsey. Now he's left the team because he's
having another kid. The Doug Marons got his back saying
this is a pre planned deal. But you know he
first he had a cold, then he had a bad back.
Now he's missed the team. Yeah, I mean they've got issues. Um,
there's issues between the player and the team. I don't
(16:48):
think that's a revelation. It dates back to last year.
It was accentuated with sort of the almost flippant nature
which the team declared, we're not paying this dude. Um,
and it manifests that it's off from the sidelines, you know,
a few weeks ago for all the sea and then
he had a combustible meeting with the team president Tom
Coughlin on top of that, and you know, not getting
(17:10):
two ones for him in the span of like three days.
Was it couldn't be like okay, Genie back in the bottom, Sorry, dude,
you know, just play it out like that. That's that
wasn't gonna fly, and it would be naive to think
that was going to fly. Um. I a lot of
time still now between now and the trade deadline. I
suspect that we see something every week unusual between Jalen
(17:32):
Ramsey and the Jags because he's not happy and he
lets you know, a long time ago, he wasn't happy
and he's not inclined to do a deal there, and
he thinks there's way more money on field and elsewhere
somewhere else, And by entertaining the trade demands, um, he
feels like he's close to the other side of the
rainbow than ever. So you know, sort of figuring this
out and squashing it or placating him on the fly
(17:55):
with something other than a trade isn't going to be easy. Uh. Yes.
So ultimately, does he stick and does he come back
and play? I mean I don't. I think for all sides,
it may not make sense for him to play this week.
He's barely been in the building, he's missed practice, um,
and you know, he gets hurt, and obviously it's it's
(18:16):
a lose for everybody, lose for him, lose for the team,
and you know, lose for their future of the Jags
because of what you might be able to get in
trade for a player who I don't ever think is
signing a long term extension there. Um, I think it
still ends up in the trade. I do. Jason lackett
Ford Joinius Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
(18:37):
I want to ask you about Lamar Jackson. You know
you've been bullish on Lamar. The Ravens have been bullish
on Lamar, and the numbers at the end of the
day against Kansa City didn't look at looked at bad.
The reality was there are two jump balls that weren't
good decisions that he got bailed out on and he
was back to the struggles in the short and intermediate
passing game, which is the you know, it's it's really
(18:57):
these two these teams at the bottom. Arizona's tear horible,
Miami's terrible. It's really hard to tell how good anybody
is when you play them. Where, where are they where?
What do they legitimately think? Lamar Jackson is eleven yards
per game on offense. I can tell you that it's
number one in the league. They scored four touchdowns on
the road. Um, they couldn't stop anybody, you know, uh,
(19:19):
And not that you're going to contain mahomes. But as
as much as they talk about their defense, and as
much as they told everybody in the media who would
fly into town or in my case, drive over the
facility watched them practice and say you had nobody who
will come close to Russian the pastor this year other
than at Judean. And that secondary might look really good
on paper right now, but it's long in the tooth
and some key spots. Jimmy Smith has always hurt. Cavin
(19:42):
Young has always hurt. The hurt again. And you will
get picked apart by anything other than average quarterbacks. Anybody
above average is gonna be going to pick you apart
because you're gonna have to bring six or seven to
get home. I think that's the reality. I mean, they
when they when they when they ran, when they got
back into twelve and thirty personnel in the second half,
they ran the ball down their throats and they got
(20:03):
back in the game. I think they came out a
little too cute and thinking we're gonna trade points and
we're gonna throw to set up the run um. That
kid is not going to be perfect, but I don't.
I mean from an offensive standpoint, they gotta get more
receivers involved in Hollywood like, it's not perfect, but the
problem and if there is a problem there, it's on
(20:24):
the other side of the ball. Because they're gonna score
mid twenties or low thirties on a lot of teams
in this league. Like, I don't know they're gonna do
that to New England, but they're gonna do it with
a lot of teams in this leagu They're gonna do
it with every team in their division. But can they
do You have to bring six to get any pressure
because if you do the Mahomes the Bradies, they're gonna
slay you. And that that's where I think the rubber
(20:47):
will meet the road with this team. Okay, how bad
are the problems with the Browns? Talk to me, Talk
to me a couple of weeks, um at one and two.
I'm not gonna go too crazy, but this is a
big game for them with Baltimore. UM. And I just
mentioned some of the flaws in Baltimore's defense, And is
this a get right game, um for for Baker Mayfield.
(21:10):
You know, Odell is a guy who they haven't played
them that much, but when they have played them in
the past, Um, he's he's destroyed them. Do they get
established or you know, do they do some different things
with Nick Chubb? Do they run more screens and quick
stuff and and up tempo quick stuff to try to
mitigate some of the issues with the offensive line. Um,
you know, we'll see this next four game stretch is
(21:31):
pretty daunting. I think they've got San Francisco, Seattle, and
New England after this. Uh, you go one and three
in that span. It's it's late. You know, it's late,
early two and five. I don't think they're gonna be
able to to get off the mat to the extent
that you're talking playoffs. Um, so let's see man again
very early there. I'm not gonna go crazy. The defense
(21:52):
has been absolutely stellar for the most part, and they
have the pieces on offense to be better than than
what they are. Do I think it would sense for them,
and would have made sense all along, to have Todd
Monkin call the plays and let Freddie do everything else
a head coach has to do. I do, Um. Do
I understand his unwillingness to entertain that three games into
(22:12):
his head coaching career, I do do. I think this
doesn't excuse me. The next four games go really bad
and we're at the middle of the year. Do I think, um,
that's gonna be something that he's facing more of. Absolutely,
you're only gonna have Tom Monkin for one year and
all likely, and I think he's gonna be a head
coach college a pro somewhere next year. You might as
(22:34):
well let him do what he does best and what
he's done much longer than the head coach has done. Yeah. No,
I I agree. It's one of the of the of
the risks they took hiring an inexperienced coach, but then
allowing that inexperienced coach to also call called plays something
that he's not terribly experiencing at all. Was those are
two to what seems like fatal flaws. Uh, thus far
(22:58):
Jason Luckham for a CBS Sports join us here on
the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Um, you know,
I look around this league and I do wonder, have
we seen the last cam of Cam Newton in the
Carolina Panther uniform too? Quicker reaction what happened in Arizona
last week? I think that's one where I think we'll
(23:21):
probably have our answer come there by week. Um that
you know, as I was reporting last week, this was
at least a several weeks situation. They were not going
to put Cam back there in a week or two
have him reaggravate that thing. And now we're going to
a specialist every week, and it's an ongoing saga. So
Kyle Allen is going to get to three games at
the very least. At this point, I think he's gonna
(23:42):
get They have a game in week six in London.
You're not gonna bring Cam back and practice, you know
what I mean, on all these different surfaces. You're not
used to halfway across the world and have him come
back for that game. And then you've got extended break
after that, where I think if Kyle Allen keeps producing
the way he is, then it goes from a medical
situation to kind of like Lamar and Flacco last year,
(24:02):
where you know, it was Flacco's hint was going to
be a good three four weeks probably no matter what,
and then it got the week, you know, five and
six weeks and Lamar's rolling, and it was even though
they didn't admitute the time for another two or three weeks,
it was already a football decision. And then it gets
around the being obvious. Now I don't I don't know
how this kid's gonna perform um, but I'm super intrigued
by him. The more work I do on him, the
(24:24):
more people I talked to about him, the less I
think that he's a too too hit wonder or I guess,
in this case, a two game wonder. Yeah, me too.
I'm fascinated to see exactly what happens next. And they
do have some really good personnel around him, which feels
like he fits better than Camp fits in terms of
pushing the ball downfield the more and Curtis Samuel and
those guys. Um, it was it was pretty impressive. Um.
(24:49):
I mean to your point, you know about Baltimore, they
Caroline's offense against Arizona looked better than Baltimore. You know,
the Baltimore game against Arizona was where Lamar had a
run for one twenty. Uh So, you know, I can't
I can't discount what Kyle Ollen did on the road
against an NFL team. I mean, I'm not gonna go
crazy about it, but it fits with the narrative I'm
(25:09):
hearing about what his high end potential might be if
everything goes right. Can you think of a bigger one
eighty than what Giants fans have done with Daniel Jones.
I mean, it was pretty wild being in the city
on Sunday and being in studio and you know, we're right,
you know, fifty seventh and tents, and you know, all
(25:30):
the guys on the crew and lighting guys and camera
guys and floor guys. There's a lot of hardcore Giants
fans who have basically just been sort of sitting on
their hands and gutting it out through these games the
last four years because there's been nothing to see here.
And I mean we almost had people screaming on air
a couple of times doing highlights because people, you know,
like the crew, everybody was just incredibly fired. I mean
(25:52):
energy in the city and the being in a cab
going to Penn Station and watching people coming out of
bars with their giant stuff on High five and it
was palpable, man um. And I just think people at
this point, we're just beaten down and ready for something else.
Like if we're not gonna be any good, let's just
be good different. Let's be good athletic, let's be good
booting out, let's be good slinging at fifty yards. I mean,
(26:15):
let's you know, if we're gonna be bad, and we're
gonna be bad, let's be bad in all those different
ways rather than what this has become. Um. And you know,
the kid has yet to show anything other than uh
significant potential. But I don't think that excuses the twenty
three and a half million dollars to ELI, all the
reps this kid didn't get in the summer because you
(26:37):
had ELI, Um some of the personnelity changes you've made
and the guys you've passed on the last couple of
years because you have ELI, and the fact that they
hedged their bets as long as they could possibly hedge them.
You can't. You can't act like there was great conviction
or this was the plan all along. Otherwise you would
have reallocated assets from draft trade and financially in a
(26:59):
much different way than they did. So they can't have
it both ways in that regard. But if this kid
is who he looks like he might be, nobody's gonna
care a year from now. Awesome stuff. Jason Lacamphora from
CBS Sports. Tell everybody in that studio, I said hello,
and we'll talk. We'll talk soon. Sounds good, but thank you.
Be sure to catch live edition. So the Doug Got
Leaps show week days at noon eastern three pm Pacific.
(27:21):
He's a cy Young Award winner, a World Series champion,
he's bury Zito. He joins us on the Doug gott
Leap Show. In his new book is called Curveball How
I Discovered Fulfillment after Chasing fortune and fame. Barry, thanks
so much for taking time. I want to get into
your new book in a moment. But with the A's
clinching a playoff spot last night, what what memories are
stirred up for you? Yeah? Well, first, I mean, you know,
(27:44):
Billy Bean and and all the way down they've just
figured out some type of formula for you know, having
having good quality budgets and and even better teams and
somehow they just managed to do it every year. I mean,
it's just incredible for me. So um, you know, all
those good link stirrup when I start watching them going
into playoffs again. And that's what we were doing in
(28:04):
two thousand and all those years. And uh, you know,
there's just nothing like playoff baseball, and especially in the coliseum. Man, Yeah,
you mentioned nothing like playoff baseball where every pitch does
in fact matter. Um, if you could take a pit
is there a pitch you would take back from the
playoffs that year? Oh? Yeah, I would take Uh, let's see,
(28:25):
it was two thousand and three. Uh, and it was
Game five of the A L d S. I was
pitching against Pedro Martinez and I gave up a three
run homer to Manny Ramirez. I'll never forget it. He
uh he hit the homer, and I was watching the
ball go over the left field wall, and of course
I turned back around, you know, five seconds later, and
he's not even a first base yet. So of course
I'm like, come on, man, get around those bases. But
(28:46):
I definitely would have taken that pitch back when when
you realize some of the things those hitters were doing
back in the day, Is there is there any uh,
is there any negative feelings about about the level of fairness,
about the level level playing field lack thereof you know,
It's funny because on this side of it, yeah, I
mean I definitely, I definitely do wish that, you know,
it was more of an even playing field, you know,
(29:07):
And that was kind of as I was coming up
and through most of my career was was in that era,
and of course at the time, we just didn't know.
It was just baseball as usual. And you know, I
think everything kind of happens perfectly the way I should
and we always learned from our mistakes and what we
can do better in the future. But um, I'm just
glad I didn't know at the time you went through
something a friend of mine went through in San Francisco,
(29:28):
where you want a World Series ring, but you didn't
pitch for the World series for somebody who's as accomplished
as you are, and you want to great pictures in
your era in the game. What's that like emotionally to
go through? I mean, it was the hardest time in
my life, you know, And and I get into these
kind of really dark details in the book about you know,
(29:49):
I lost my mother in o AID and I lost
my father in thirteen. But you know, I gotta be honest,
nothing rocked me to the core, like you know, being
left off that World Series roster and watching my him
when the exact World Series that I was paid to
bring over there, you know, to bring them to as
a giant, and uh, you know, for me, it kind
of it just cracked my whole worldview. Everything I thought
(30:11):
I knew about life and and myself just fell apart.
And you know I had to pick those pieces back up.
Good books called Curveball by Berries, you know, how I
discovered true fulfillment after chasing fortune and fame. He joins
us in the Doug Gotlip Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
A good portion of it is dedicated to your relationship
with your father. What was what was he like with
when you were growing up. Yeah, I mean, you know,
(30:34):
my father was an incredible, you know, loving, supportive father,
and you know, he had his own kind of darkness
that he came from. He actually was a product of
a rape back when he was born. His his mother
was a fourteen year old girl who actually got assaulted
by her stepfather. And so, you know, writing a little
bit about where he came from and the shame that
he grew up in, and of course they were trying
(30:55):
to hide him in the back of the you know,
in the house in New York when family would come over,
because he was kind of just a forgotten child, and so,
you know, he had his own journeys with self worth,
and I think he unconsciously, you know, transferred those onto me,
and so I ended up trying to perform, you know,
for approval to him and the world in my career.
You know. It's interesting. So, so my dad obviously did
(31:16):
not have that sort of upbringing. But he was you know,
he was a walk on in college playing basketball, and
he became a high school coach, became a college coach,
and like he was, he was my mentor growing up.
And I don't know, you know, he passed away a
couple of years ago. I don't know. You know, some
would say he tried to live through me. Um. I
(31:36):
just think he tried to give me opportunities he he
thought he deserved and he didn't get. But it wasn't
It was a it was a complex relationship and it's
one now. My son is a left handed pitcher. He's
a very good athlete, and it's one that's really as
a father, how do you parent in comparison to how
your dad parented? Yeah, I mean it's a great question.
(31:57):
And I think that you know, as as parents that
were one children, you know, we try to undo some
of the damage that was done to us, even if
it was unconscious by our parents. And you know, for me,
I might go a little too far on the side of,
you know, don't push him into anything, because I know
some of the the you know, the backlash I guess
in me that happened from you know, almost on a
military schedule, you know, practicing baseball for so many years. Um,
(32:20):
So for me, I I you know, I want my
son to do what he loves. And of course I'm
going to give him every every opportunity and all the support.
But I just don't want him to forget that, you know,
sports or whatever he gets into is you know, not
as important as as family and God and the real
stuff in life. You know, how did you how did
you find how do you find peace? Yeah? So for me,
(32:42):
you know, I get into a little bit of the
spiritual background for me, but I was raised in kind
of a different upbringing. And of course, you know, if
we focus on this and work hard enough, you know,
and we can we can have anything we want, you know,
if we just work hard enough. And so that was great,
you know, to see the world like that while I
was winning cy Young's and oak and but when everything
begin to collapse around me, you know in San Francisco, Uh,
(33:05):
I needed I needed help. I mean, I couldn't rely
on myself anymore. And and it took me a lot
of pain to get to that point where I could
admit that. But once I did, you know, in came
this kind of this greater strength and this relationship with God.
And you know, I think I was just too uh,
too cocky and arrogant to ever ask for help. What
about your music? How is? How has that helped? The
(33:26):
music was always a cathartic thing for me. You know,
I'd come home after these bad games for years in
San Francisco and pick up the guitar and just you know,
strum some chords or write some you know, some lyrics
or something and sing some melodies. And that was always
something that just balanced me because uh, well, you know,
I got into some other bad habits trying to escape
all the pain as well. But I don't know where
(33:48):
I'd be without that guitar. I'll tell you what, what's
the worst haven you get into? Um? I think trying
to escape all the you know, childhood, the military type
of practice regiment. You know, I got into some heavy
drugs in high school and selling drugs, and and then
you know, as an adult, I got into you know,
abusing certain things drugs and alcohol and and you know, um,
(34:11):
chasing women and just really hoping that everything would give
me that peace and contentment that I wanted. And of
course it wasn't anywhere. I thought it was going to
be in mansions and sports cars, and it was nowhere
to be found. Really and so how and so in addition,
you have religion, you have your kids, but you also
have your wife. How does how does that? How she
brought you balance? She just for me, She would just
(34:34):
enabled me to have perspective and to realize that, you know,
I had this death grip on you know, being successful
in the world and I needed that so bad, or
at least I thought I did. And so she really
helped me just to understand that, you know, there's this beautiful,
loving presence that you know, that I can come to
for help. And um, she actually told me one day,
(34:56):
I was surrounded in my you know, five or six
self help books, you know, from Barnes and Noble. I
was just on the bed reading all of them at
the same time, and she said, you need to put
all those books away and just read this book. And she,
you know, she handed me a Bible and that was
kind of the first time I ever did that. And
it was really interesting. Yeah, it's it's it's it's fascinating,
like like, this is a writing this book and it
(35:17):
had to be what was it? I mean, I'm sure
it was cathartic on some levels, But what's what's the
process like of going through so many, uh, really difficult
details at times to read when you consider what's being shared,
you know. For me, I mean, I just feel like
being authentic, being vulnerable, you know, those are the things
that that we can all identify with it. And I
(35:38):
know that when other people tell their story and they
just they don't hold anything back and they just talk
about the you know, the darkest, you know, worst corners
of their life and and things that you know, maybe
before they were ashamed to mention. I feel very connected
and I see myself in the story, and so that
was my goal, was just to share everything and you know,
talk about the worst times when you know, as rooting
(36:00):
against my own team, you know, because my ego was
just panicking and you know, just bad dark stuff. But um,
I feel like there's so much growth we can make
as as people, you know, when we share that stuff.
All Right, I gotta ask l baseball questions here. Yeah, Uh,
the curveball, right, I mean, you're forever known for having
one of the remarkable curveballs in Major League Baseball history.
(36:23):
All right, you you're you're on the mound, you're in
the stretch. Um, take me through the process of throwing
a curveball. Yeah, so you know, um, well you just
have to obviously, you gotta have confidence in it, you
gotta trust it. But more than anything, it's just about rotation. Um.
The faster you make that ball rotate and the tighter
you know, it spins on that axis, the more it's
(36:45):
going to cut through the air and drop. So you know,
for me, whenever I lost my curveball, I would actually
tape two baseballs together with athletic tape and try to
flip it so it perfectly rotated end over end. And uh,
you know, my thought process was pulled down on that
scene as hard as you possibly can and hear that
perfect little you know, that noise right off the top
(37:06):
of that scene right there. Yeah. The So obviously it's
not with you as I tended to. It's a what
is it? What I'm trying to think? Six twelve to six?
So what's your what's your grip? Like? My grip was
actually learned how to throw that pitch from this book
called The Art of Pitching that Tom Siever wrote, and
(37:26):
as a kid I picked it up and there was
a picture of a curveball, but it was gripped by
a right handed pitcher, and so I gripped it with
my left hand and probably got it backwards, and I
ended up holding it, you know, differently than I hold Thanny,
than I've ever met, you know, a curveball pitcher in
my life. But it worked for me and the way
I gripped it as I just held it on the
left side of the horseshoe, and I would split the
(37:46):
scene with my first and second finger, and most pictures
would throw it off their second finger, but I threw
it off my first finger. Huh, that is interesting. Most
of them are our second fingers. So there's a little
Jimmie Hendricks to it. Right like Jimmie Hendricks left handed,
and he would instead of a left handing guitar, did
he play the guitar upside down? Wasn't that? Wasn't that his?
I think that that was his thing. So there's a
little bit. There's a little bit of that, and how
(38:07):
you learn to play a creer like instead of learning
to throw a curveball like a lefty, you learned throw
a curveball like a right even though you're left handed.
That's great, that's totally dead on man. Yeah, I think
he picked he I think he played a right handed
guitar upside down because that's the only one he could
afford at the time and it just worked out perfect
for him. Um. What what is that feeling like to
throw the perfect curveball where you literally see the guy's
(38:29):
knees buckle or they just there think maybe they're thinking fastball,
especially it's a it's a lefty and he thinks it's
coming right at him. What is, honest to goodness, what's
that feeling like? Yeah? I mean that there was really
no film like that in the world. Um, and I
think for me it was it was one thing to
make the left hander kind of buckle and duck out
of the way because he thought he was getting hit
with the ball, you know, in the head or the shoulder.
(38:50):
But when you could make the right handed hitter get
the jelly legs and flinch, that's when you knew something
was right. Man. That is is so awesome. Um. You
obviously ended your career as an a you know the
seven innings, uh in your last season coming back through
through through triple A. UM playoff season, they're back Bocchi Bocchi.
(39:11):
By the way, he's gonna retire, which is just crazy, right,
I mean, just amazing a guy I thought would never
although when you see him move to the mountain back
you realize why he's he's shutting it down. Um, will
you do you still have a love for baseball? Like
do you? Because I know some guys when things end poorly,
they don't they won't watch anymore. Playoff baseball aser on
will you watch? Yeah? Absolutely, Man, I'm so grateful that
(39:35):
I have a good relationship with the game. And you know,
fans may not understand how you know it feels sometimes
when you you don't really do all the things you
want to do in your career, and you know, even
with you know, financial freedom and uh World Series rings,
you know, it can be hard to watch the game
because it's a reminder of what you didn't do. But
for me, I'm really at a place where I can
(39:55):
accept my story, you know, the good and the bad,
and know that I'm better for it. And man, baseball
just it's it's it calms me down when it's on
in the house. Man, I just feel something just goes down.
My blood pressure goes down. I think well. In the
book is the redemption of two thousand twelve, obviously, the
trials and tribulations you know, before and after the two
thousand ten playoffs, the stuff with your dad, the superstardom
(40:17):
and finding purpose in your life. It's an amazing book
and I can't believe you were man enough to share
it with the world. It's called Curveball How I Discovered
True Fulfillment After Chasing Fortune and Fame, authored by cy
Young Award winner and two time World Series Champion Barry Zito.
Very great to catch up. Thanks so much for joining us, Doug,
thanks so much for having me
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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