August 29, 2023 • 37 mins
Dan and Rich filling in for Doug as they discuss the near-consensus opinion that the Arizona Cardinals are attempting to tank this season to be in position to draft Caleb Williams out of USC. NFL Analyst John Middlekauff joins Dan and Rich to discuss the Cardinals, the Cowboys and all of the other major headlines around the NFL. Plus, Isaac Lowenkron takes the guys through a game of "Rank 'Em!".
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the Doug Gotlab Show podcast. Be
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
Coal lots and lots of football to get to today.
Plus it was in the NBA, it's Erykavic and Major
League Baseball, and now it's affected the National Football League,
or should I say infected the National Football League. As
we are broadcasting live from the tierraq dot com studios
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be rich. I have the sense that there are fans
of thirty one NFL teams that just cannot wait for
the season to start in a little over a week.
And then there's the fan base of the Arizona Cardinals
that I have no idea what the heck they could
(01:00):
be feeling right.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Now, Awful, hopeless, helpless, like the season's over before it
started all would be true. We can play our ding
ding ding ding ding. Because here's the deal. What should
be ringing in all Arizona Cardinals' ears is the fact that,
in short successive order, you've put caller Murray on the
(01:25):
physically unable to perform list, you cut the only veteran
quarterback left on your roster, and Josh Dobbs looks like
he's gonna be your Game one starter. And with a
plethora of other roster moves over the past year, this
team has no hope, no future, and most likely no
(01:48):
wins at least when you look at the schedule on
paper in the foreseeable future. Because this is one of
those seasons that, quite honestly, it feels like the Arizona
Cardinals are aiming to lose in its entirety so that
they can And again, this is my speculation, this is
my conjecture. I have no inside inside the hallowed walls
(02:12):
of the of the Cardinals facility outside of my playing
time there in twenty twelve. But if it looks like
a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it's not,
if it swims like a duck, most likely it's a duck.
So if it looks like tanking, it sounds like tanking,
and they're making roster decisions to be bad at football
this season, then it probably is what it is.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
This seems to be a unifying point across across this
sports country. There are very few dissenting voices in viewing
what the Arizona Cardinals are doing and this entire offseason.
I even remember being in Phoenix at the Super Bowl
Rich and the conversations that we were having were the
(02:55):
Arizona Cardinals not only were not going to be good
this up coming season, but they were still likely on
their way down before they were ever going to go up.
Because at that point you had Kyler Murray still dealing
with the knee injury. You didn't know about the future
of DeAndre Hopkins. Well now he ends up being a
member of the Tennessee Titan, so he's no longer in Arizona.
(03:16):
James Connor is back. Buddha Baker wanted to be traded
this offseason, but he ends up returning. But it seemed
like the Cardinals needed to hit rock bottom first before
then they bounced back up. So that's not a surprise
that it's a bad season. What I think that is
such a surprise is that even when teams have bad
years or you think they're going to have bad years,
(03:39):
there is this little sliver of hope that just maybe,
just maybe your team could surprise someone. And I know
this more than anyone as a Seahawks fan. And last year,
at this point, Rich, we were saying, wait, what Gino
Smith's going to be their starting quarterback? And I know
Seattle had other pe you had dk Metgeff, you had
(04:02):
Tyler Lockett. You ended up, you know, drafting Kenneth Walker,
and you hit you know, a home run or at
least a triple with their two tackles that they drafted.
But still at this time, Rich, last year, I was
scratching my head, but I was curious. I'm like, well,
maybe Russell Wilson was just kind of toxic. Maybe this
is going to pull them together. So even though I
(04:23):
was expecting a bad season for the Seahawks, there was
still some hope. And then what do you know, they
surprised me, end up surprising the NFL and going to
the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Now I'm not saying that's what the Cardinals are doing.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
It's just that I don't remember a time Rich where
we have had a team seemingly tanking in.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
The National Football League.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
We've seen it in the NBA A bunch, we know
the A Stink, the Royal Stink, and baseball that's been
an issue for a while, But I don't ever remember
a time in the National Football League where we have
seen a team seemingly give up before the season even started.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, this is as blatant as it's ever been, at
least to my recollection. And every single move that they've
made virtually since Kyler Murray tore his ACL at the
end of last season, has led you to believe that
the Cardinals weren't exactly gearing up for a sensational campaign
in twenty twenty three. But when you make a decision
(05:20):
like cutting Colt McCoy days before the NFL season, I mean,
this isn't You're not even hiding it at this point,
col McCoy, and I understand, he's thirty six and he's
a journeyman quarterback and it's not like he's Kyler Murray even.
I mean, I get it, I get it. But cold
McCoy took every single first team snap since, including filling
(05:44):
in for Kyler Murray when he was hurt since Kyler
Murray's injury. Every single offseason snap, ran with the first
team the entire offseason, all throughout training camp, every single
spring drill, all throughout the preseason, and then all of
a sudden, he's gone. And the best you can do
is have a ten minute press conference where Jonathan Gannon
gives a whole bunch of jargonese stuff like, Hey, it's
(06:06):
a football decision. We're just doing what's best for the
football team. Really, I mean, is that true or is
this just what you're saying, because what your actions are
doing are improving what you're saying. And everybody's been in
that conversation before in their life, whether it was when
you were a little kid, or maybe it's a marital
(06:26):
relationship thing or whatever. Everybody's had the conversation where it's like, yeah,
I'm hearing what you're saying, but what you're showing me
with your actions is not aligning with what you're saying.
So there needs to be further discussion here and potentially,
and I don't know if there's a huge interest in this,
because I'm sure other teams are guilty of this and
(06:48):
maybe they don't want, you know, to throw stones, living
in glass houses, et cetera, et cetera. But could you
see the competition committee in the NFL coming together and saying, hey,
this is a little too fishy. Maybe we ought to
launch an investigation.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
It would be a big leap. And the reason I
don't see it, Rich is because of what the NFL
has been in the past and what the NFL Draft
has been in the past. Now, could this be the
first step and if we see this a couple of times,
that there could be maybe something brought up where they
(07:24):
look where the league.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Looks into it. Yeah, I think I think that could
be the case.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
The reason why I think that we're getting it now
and why this this situation has evolved to where it is.
It's not a perfect storm, because the perfect storm is
kind of everything just happening coming together all at once.
And while there are certain things that came together, what
I truly believe rich is, and you can ask the
NFL running backs about this, is the NFL has placed
(07:52):
such an importance on the quarterback position, and it's been
a long long time since we have scene maybe the
quarterback not getting a benefit. But now in the National
Football League, you feel you need a quarterback to win
and win consistently, of course, and that's completely obvious. And
(08:12):
now what do you have dangling out there? Caleb Williams
at USC.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
I get it. And that's the you know, that's that's
the apple of this.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And that's why I kind of blame the NFL is
there is now such an importance on getting that position
correct and hitting on that position. I mean, we just
saw the Colts take Anthony Richardson with a fourth overall
pick because the Texans straighted up to three and they
already drafted their quarterback, but we saw him go number
(08:40):
four with you know how, little experience but all that
raw talent. Now he's starting week one, and Bryce Young
is starting week one and CJ Stroud starting week one,
and now you have this I don't want to say
once in a generation, but let's just say it once
in a decade. Maybe Caleb Williams is that is what
is drawing the Cardinals and really could be drawing the
Rams is well to it.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
It's a race to the bottom.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Because of that prospect, because the NFL has made the
quarterback position so darn important that when there is a
prized piece like Caleb Williams. It's better for the franchise
to tank for that season to try to get that
player than anything else.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, you look around the league. Some other contenders, you know,
might be like a Washington Commanders or one of the
teams out of NFC South, whether it's Atlanta or the Bucks. Yeah,
there's a lot of teams the Rams you mentioned the Cardinals. Certainly,
there's a lot of teams that could have really awful
seasons and really didn't look to make an enormous stride
(09:38):
forward this offseason. Maybe a youth movement, you know, in
the case of Atlanta. But like, eh, it just it
sort of feels like there are certain teams that are
positioning themselves to say, hey, okay, look we want to
be competitive, but we also are aware of what's on
the other side of that first round draft pick. So
wouldn't it be cool if Dot and everybody knows what's
(10:02):
on the other side of that ellipse. I look at
what the Cardinals are doing is different though, this is
just so blatant, it's so obvious, it's so in the
face of these Cardinal fans. I think the NFL seriously
has to look at the NFL Draft I think they
have to go to a style of draft and I
never thought I would say this that more resembles what
(10:22):
the NBA does with the draft lottery. And I think
if you want to make it completely fair for fans
who are paying the salaries of these players with their
season ticket prices that they pay, and the concessions and
the gate prices for single game tickets and buying these
television packages to see all these games, like, the best
(10:43):
way you could do this is, Okay, the fourteen teams
that make the postseason, obviously they're going to be shuffled
to the bottom of each of the rounds in the
upcoming draft. But how about those remaining eighteen teams, what
do we do with them? Well, it's been a race
for the bottom every year for certain teams at the
end of the season. But how about we do this
starting from the first team that's eliminated, I mean power
(11:06):
rank it from eight from the first team out of
the postseason all the way to the thirty second team
in the league. And that first team out of the
postseason contention you get eighteen balls, the next one out
you get seventeen balls, and all the way down to
thirty two you get one, you get one, and then
we throw all the balls in the hopper and we
(11:27):
run the lottery, and so you have the best chance
actually to get the first overall pick. If you're the
first out of the playoffs. It's sort of like the
best of the worst bracket. So try to be good.
Don't try to stink out loud, because you actually hurt
your team for longer.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It's a problem with the NBAS. They rewarded the worst teams.
You know, the playing tournament has kind of taken a
little bit of that middle miss. Like you never wanted
to be the eight or nine seed because if you're
in the ninth seed, you didn't make the playoff and
you had no chance at making the or getting the
number one overall big And then if you were the
eighth seed outside of the Miami Heat this past year
and maybe a few other select seasons, you were likely
(12:04):
out after four or five games against the number one seed.
So there was not a lot of benefit in being
in the middle of the league becausey would always reward
the bottom I see, which I if that, if it
had to come to that, if we saw this in
more years, I would before something like that, because you
can't reward a team for losing, you just you can't.
And plays players don't care about that sort of stuff.
(12:26):
The players don't care about the draft, and you would
know more so than anyone because you played the game.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Rich.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
The last thing you want to, you know, the team
to do is to draft or eventual replacement, right, you know,
so trying to so trying to get that star quarterback
if you're the quarterback. Yeah, maybe it's not the greatest
thing in the world that your team gets the number
one pick and then you're ousted.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
It's job security. So I like your version of it.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
What is so crazy about this is I've heard everybody
on the same page, you know, like we all view
the Arizona Cardinals as tanking, everyone except Jason Stewart, our
executive producer, who comes at this from a completely different angle.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
I want to be that friend in the room that
always plays the devil's advocate and most people hate that guy.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
But can I just.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Kind of slow everybody down a little bit here and
you tell me if I'm crazy. And the only thing
that's going to actually prove this is you could we
could have this conversation to get it in January. But
when everybody is on the same page about something, and
Rich Ornberger is on national radio talking about what the
NFL needs to do to mitigate these things, and the
(13:35):
assumption is that the Cardinals are tanking. The assumption is
that Caleb Williams is a camp miss. I need to
remind people about the phrase tank for Tua? Was that
a camp miss? Did he even go first? Overall? I
want to remind people about the Seattle Seahawks that Dan
has already talked about last year. I think you maybe
(13:58):
could have made a compelling argument that Pete Carroll was
doing the same thing. He was screaming from the mountaintops. No,
he thought he had a pretty good team in place,
and nobody believed him. Would the Cardinals really bring in
a new head coach and a new GM to tank
right away? I remember when in baseball when they actually
had to pitch the four pitches for a walk. I
(14:21):
would always be like, why did they just make a
pitching change for the new guy to do what the
guy who they just replaced could have done throw four pitches?
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Why would they.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Bring in a new regime to immediately tank? Yeah, So,
when everybody's saying and you guys, are ninety It's like
a ninety five percent to five here. But allow me
to be the devil's advocate and you tell me that
my reasoning is off.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I like the side that you're playing, because I do
agree with you that there is a possibility that the
Arizona Cardinals feel like, honestly, what they did in moving
some picks to get Joshua Dobbs is what's best for
their football team in their future. And maybe there's an
outside chance that you're right that they're going to be
(15:05):
like Pete Carroll last offseason, screaming from the mountaintops, We're good.
We are We're actually good, and you don't believe us,
but you'll find out.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Maybe.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Here's here's the way I look at it. These are people,
These are people with jobs who are in charge of
making these decisions. And who are the people who are
making these decisions? Well, these owners hire people to make
these decisions for them, and these people need to come
to their bosses, the owners of these football teams, with plans,
and whether we'll ever get to see the emails to
prove that this is an actual tank job or not,
(15:38):
those conversations probably go a lot like this, Hey, look,
it's gonna be a rough year. Okay, we are going,
I'm sure this is uh awesome, what's his name? Awesome
for it? Going to the general, going to Michael Bidwell,
the owner of the Arizona Cardinals, and he's going, look,
this is gonna be a really bad season for us.
But here's the pitch we hang to. We stink out loud.
(16:01):
We're gonna have a little bit of trouble selling some
season tickets this season because people are gonna be aware
of what's going on. But on the other side, we
have a sunny path because Caleb Williams of USC is
going to be potentially a two time Heisman winner and
we are going to have the best shot at bring
him in into our organization. Team on three, team on three,
(16:22):
one two three, Okay, let's go.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Let's go suck.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Like to me, that's like a real legitimate conversation that
happens in front offices away from the light of day,
and there are owners who buy it. They go, yeah, honestly,
based on our salary cap restrictions and based on what
we have on our current roster, that is our best
way forward.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
So whether it's.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Tank for two or it's tank for Caleb or Tank
for whoever, because this won't be the last time this
happens to me. In order to preserve your occupation, sometimes
you've got to do the wrong thing to do the
right thing, and it doesn't feel good. Everybody's taking a
heaping scoop of humble pie over there in Arizona, but
they're hopeful that your secret season ticket sales ahead of
(17:07):
the Caleb Williams season are going to be skyrocketing past
what you're selling this this offseason.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I would also add this again, get in on it.
When he took the job, he knew what it was. Yeah,
so you know, so he knows the process, the whole
handling of Kyler Murray. And I was thinking about this,
I'm like, geez, Kyler Murray plays this year. Maybe the
Cardinals are trying to win games. Then I thought about it.
You go oh and four or whatever it is to
(17:33):
start this season with Josh Dobbs as your quarterback.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Yeah, I know he knows some of the coaches and
knows some of the scheme. Whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You still don't bring in a guy four days prior
to the start of the season and start them two
weeks later. That stuff you do in like Week fifteen.
But if you play Kyler Murray this year, you know
what else it does, Rich is it shows teams he's
back from his knee injury. So when we do stink
and we have already been Owen twelve or whatever, then
(18:01):
when we do win a couple of games with Kyler Murray,
when we trade Kyler Murray, you don't have to have
any questions about his knee into exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I think that is so smart, right because this isn't
just a plan that starts today like Okay, let's go
out there and lose every single game. No no, no, no, no,
no no, Because you want to be careful about how
you execute everything with Kyler. Make sure he's one hundred
percent before he goes out there. Make sure that he's
a tradable candidate, especially with the amount of salary that's
(18:27):
going to come with him. You're going to offload that
to I don't know, I mean, name the quarterback needy
team out there who might be interested. The Commanders. You know,
there's going to be a team this offseason or potentially
before the trade deadline that's going to be interested in
Kyler Murray. So if that's the case, man like I
think this. I think this had to be a plan
(18:49):
that was hatched in the dark back rooms of the
Arizona Cardinals front office that will never reach the light
of day, but ultimately we all know what's going on.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports Radio. He's Rich Hoarrenberger,
the NFL VET. I'm Dan Beyer sitting in for Doug.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Today.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Former NFL scout and host of the Three and Out podcast,
John Middlecoff joins us to talk. You know, we're talking
to NFL and Rich and I just spent the last
eighteen minutes or so John talking about this Arizona Cardinals situation,
and I feel like the whole world is united in
this tanking belief of what's happening in Phoenix right now
(19:38):
are in Glendale.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
What would be a reason? Is there any reason?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Is maybe the better question on why Colt McCoy would
be released in favor of Josh Dobbs or a fifth
round bank?
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Could you make.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Any sense to make it look like the Cardinals aren't
just throwing in the towel on this season.
Speaker 7 (19:57):
Well one, he's injured, right, he had been banged up,
he got hurt last year. He's ben hurts rout his career.
He's older. Listen, I think if you had cut Carson
Palmer at the end of his career or some established starter.
I mean, we're talking Colt McCoy. I'm going to push
back in the tanking. Who really cares? I mean, does
(20:19):
it really matter that they're going to try to win
games in the season. They're just not going to because
they're terrible and I can't put that. Listen. I don't
know if this head coach is going to be any good,
but this is not his fault. I mean, that team's
in shamples. They should blow it up. It was not
the GM now that gave Kyler Murray that contract, which
(20:40):
is insanity, which is going to you know, be in
albatrosh on their team. But aren't they starting. I mean,
I'm not super locked into their roster, but a rookie
like that's the guy they drafted, you might as well
see what you got. I have absolutely no problem with
it at all. They haven't even played a game yet.
Let's see how it plays out.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I don't look, I definitely appreciate that standpoint, but I
think what we're more talking about is less about maybe
Jonathan Gannon or the perception of tanking. It's more of
roster construction. I get in your opinion, was there any
better way to go about this? Like, for example, you know,
(21:24):
cutting Colt McCoy seemed awfully suspicious after taking every single
first team rep. You know, since Kyler Murray injured himself.
You know it just again, I don't know if I
necessarily disagree with you that it isn't a path forward
and that people will overreact to tanking in general. But
from a competitive standpoint, and for the fan base, you know,
(21:47):
the people who buy the season tickets and pay the
concessions and all that stuff, it's it's a tough putt
to say, hey, we're looking forward to a competitive twenty
twenty three when you see all the moves that they made.
Speaker 7 (22:00):
Thing though, is like they're not looking for a competitive
twenty twenty three. And if you're a season ticket holder,
you know, you kind of see what happened the last
couple of years and the reason why they were going
to blow it up. The other thing is just from
a personnel standpoint, you know, it's I guess not normal
to start a fifth round pick, but when you are
easily one of the worst rosters in the league and
(22:21):
a lot of guys they've gotten rid of, Like Cole
McCoy was their guy, but they inherit him. They trade
Isaiah Simmons, that's not their guy. I mean, isn't that
pretty normal protocol? I mean, this team was terrible last year, right,
It's one thing to go in and if you the
coach gets fired because you lose in the first round
in the playoffs and blow everything up, Like when the
Eagles hired Siriani, they still had a lot of pieces.
This team, you know, was kind of smoke and mirrors
(22:44):
really and ever since that eight and one started a
couple of years ago. But like maybe they think that
what's going to look on this fifth round quarterback and
it's not like they have nobody behind. They traded for
a guy who's played in the league, who has you know,
showed some success of just being a functional back up
quarterback in Joshua Dobbs. Right, So you know, Colt McCoy,
you're talking about thirty eight year old journeyman backup. I
(23:07):
just I can't get warped up on cutting Colt McCoy,
who listen. I like the guy. I've been watching his
career since he was in college. But I think we're
acting a little bit like this is cutting. I don't know,
just some established starter and that's just not the case.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
John Middlecoff joining us here on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Should Dak Prescott be concerned about the acquisition of Trey
Lance in Dallas?
Speaker 7 (23:29):
No, I mean Trey Lance is two years away best
case scenario from being a year away to be able
to do what Dak Prescott can do on a bad game.
Dak Prescott's in a different universe as a player than
Trey Lance. To me, Jerry Oil salesman likes doing deals
wheeler and dealer, Dak Prescott, I mean, I heard you.
(23:54):
I was talking to Gottlieb yesterday and he asked me
if he saw some similarities in when they drafted Jordan Love.
If you remember, like once Aaron met Jordan Love, he
didn't have a problem with the person. He saw one
play realized this guy has no chance of taking him down.
It was just the mindset of drafting a first round quarterback.
They traded a fourth round pick, which Dallas is good.
(24:14):
You're talking about a pick at what past one hundred
and twenty. You're paying a guy a couple million dollars
is just the ultimate flyer. He's a third and listen,
I'm guilty of this, so I'm not acting like this
to you guys. We have never ever in the history
of the league discussed a third string quarterback as much
as Trey Lance, and I think that's about to die
(24:35):
because you're never going to hear about it anymore because
Cooper rushes the backup Trey Lance. I don't exactly know
how McCarthy runs practice, but you know, part of the
reason Shanahan got rid of them is because their second
string quarterback runs the scout team. So your third string
quarterback just stands there and it didn't make any sense, right.
But Trey Lance and Dak Prescott, the only thing they
have in common is they both play quarterback. And listen,
(24:57):
I'm not some Dak Prescott truther here. I questioned once
he started making huge money, you know, but he's still
whatever the ten to eleven twelve best quarterback. Trey Lance
couldn't be out to Sam Darnell on the forty nine
or so I think this discussion. I don't blame you.
I did it too, It's just it's outrageous.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, completely agree with you. John Middlcoff joining us here
on the Doug gott Lieb Show Fox Sports Radio. You know,
I'm thinking to myself, John, when I think about who
could potentially appear in the Super Bowl, I'm having a
hard time picturing anybody other than the Chiefs and the Eagles,
Like it feels like those are the two best rosters
(25:38):
on paper heading into this season and the close seconds,
I mean, outside of say the forty nine ers. I
guess he can make an argument for the Bills, but
we've seen that story so many times already between the
Chiefs and the Bills that I'm having a hard time
imagining anybody else playing in the final game. Convince me
otherwise if you can.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
Yeah, I've kind of been saying there's like a tier,
and I think in fairness to the Chiefs, they just
got to be on their own tier. I mean, they're
currently in their version of what the Patriots with Belichick
and Brady did with Andy and Mahomes. And I know you,
you know us out here on the West Coast. We
watched the AFC West closely that they have on that division,
which is good.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
You know.
Speaker 7 (26:18):
So I think if you put them on their own
tier and then in that next tier, to me, I
would put the Eagles, the Niners, the Cowboys, the Bills,
and the Bengals, And to me, it's all about health
wise going into the playoffs, how you're playing now. The
difference obviously between the two AFC teams is like if
bro or Allen catch just on a heater, you know
(26:38):
they easily can carry their team to the super Bowl
and win it. Just because those guys are just elite players.
I think when you look at the flip side, you
know the forty nine ers will see I mean, they
have an unknown at quarterback and I'm rooting for him.
Willie Sneve said the other day it reminds him when
he was playing with Drew Brees, Like clearly the forty
nine Ers and Shanahan loved the guy. But he's got
to prove it. He's the question mark, right and he's
(27:01):
already been injured. And obviously Dak Prescott, who last year
had the game of his career and just an unrel
I mean at any level, an unreal game in a
playoff game, but that Tampa Bay team was terrible and
then for the second straight year struggled against the forty
nine ers, who in fairness are in e leite defense.
But that's who you gotta play. So I would say
that it's the forty nine Ers, the Cowboys, the Eagles,
(27:23):
and the other thing with Jalen, Like, obviously the forty
nine er or I mean, excuse me, the Eagles roster
is awesome. They lost a couple of coordinators. You know, Jalen,
no one can argue what he did last year and
how awesome he was in the Super Bowl and just
he just got to read a couple of stories or
talk to anyone that knows the guy. He's an easy
person to root for because all his intangibles, but being
a great player right is doing it year in year out,
(27:46):
year in year out. So it's there is pressure on
him now that he's gotten this money. It'll be interesting,
you know how they handle that. But I mean they
got half of George's roster defensively that they should be better.
I actually think that when you look at the East,
the other team, I'm not putting on that tier because
they kind of got shoved around by the Cowboys and
definitely by the Eagles. I do think the Giants could
be a little better. You know, if you remember, you know,
(28:08):
years ago when Alex when Harbaugh first got there and
then he just gave him confidence and then Alex never
looked back. Now, he was never going to be some
top five quarterback, but Alex Smith became a really, really
good starter. Daniel Jones has more physical attributes than Alex,
and I think there are a lot of similarities in
terms of, like to the academic background. The guy's a genius.
(28:29):
He's a good athlete. People love him. He just now
you get him Darren Waller, you got Saquon you know,
his signed that franchise tender really early, so he's been
in camp the whole time. They drafted the guy. Highatt
if Dave Ball to me is like the next obviously
he's the coach of the Year last year. But I mean,
if he becomes you know another Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan
(28:51):
and you know Sean Payton, Andy Reid, which it feels
like a lot of people would bet on that over
the next ten years. Maybe they're just gonna be really good,
and they got a lot of young talents should be
as sending right. They had high draft picks the last
couple of years, definitely two years ago when they draft
the offensive linees and the defensive lineman from Morgan. So
I'm pretty intrigued by the Giants. I thought they were
a little flash in the pan last year, but their
(29:13):
off season was awesome. And it's a coach quarterback league,
and if the coach is really good and the quarterback
just keeps, you know, I don't know if he's a
forty million dollars player, but I'm bullish on Daniel Jones.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I really like the Giants as well.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And for the record, I also don't believe that Trey
Lance is a threat to Dack. But I did have
to ask John Middlekoff the question if he thought Trey
Lance was a threat to Dack. So there was no
that was not leaning an opinion in there anyway. I
was just presenting it on the plates for John Middlekoff's open.
Speaker 7 (29:43):
Well. One thing, one thing's clear, and this is and
I've been saying this now since the trade happened. No
one until he ever proves that he's like a legit,
high end starter, which is going to be very very
difficult for him to do just because he's never gonna
get a chance to play. Is ever going to care
about him like the forty nine ers did right give
and what they traded for him. So Mike McCarthy, Jerry
even admitted, I don't know if he gave it. You know,
(30:05):
Jerry gives us seven press conferences a week, so it's
hard to tell what day he gave it. But after
the trade he said he didn't tell Mike. Now, Mike
claimed that he liked him coming out of the draft,
but after Will Greer, you know, looked like Peyton Manning
meets Tom Brady in that preseason game. You can tell
Mike was a little shock, like he you know, I
can imagine Mike if Trey Lance trade never would have happened,
probably pounding the table. Let's keep this guy as their
(30:26):
third quarterback right behind Cooper Rush and obviously Dak Prescott.
So we all know that if the coach listen, Jerry
is in this weird scenarious situation because he's a GM
and he's the owner. But it's not like Jerry the
practice every day. It's not like Jerry's running the scout
team that if Mike doesn't want to operate with this guy,
Trey Lance actually could get less work with the Cowboys
(30:47):
than he even did it with the forty nine ers
when people thought he was getting screwed.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Yeah, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Oh what a career. What a career, John. We appreciate
the time. Hit him straight. We'll talk to you again
next week.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Thanks so much, you guys, take it easy.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I just had to terrify, you know, one of the
things that broadcasting rich they say, you know, get to
the questions quick, don't ramble on.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
You know. I didn't feel my opinion was needed in
that situation.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I just felt Middlekoff thought that I was saying Trey
Lance is a threat to Dak Prescott.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Yeah, I had to defend my ground.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I do think, and look, I'm not a Trey Lance apologist.
I don't think that he did a particularly good job
when he got his opportunities in San Francisco and he
was hurt. I mean, durability is your most important ability,
whether you can control that or not. But I do
feel like there's a little bit of messaging from Jerry
Jones because not only did he trade for Trey Lance
(31:38):
and give a fourth rounder to the San Francisco forty
nine ers for whatever that's worth. Well, it's worth a
fourth rounder. But he also made a comment this week
on radio where he was talking about how back when
Jalen Hurts was coming out of the draft, he strongly
considered drafting him. So all of that happens in one week,
(31:58):
and we're left to just assume that Jerry Jones is
one hundred percent satisfied and and and and happy with
Dak's performances lately. It just sort of feels like he's
trying he's trying to stoke the fire a little bit.
He's trying to do the thing that the Green Bay
Packers did with Aaron Rodgers while they still had him.
(32:20):
And guess what I mean from an individual play standpoint,
with Rogers, at least it worked. I mean, he ended
up winning the back to back MVP. So there's there's
this feeling of like, hey, Dak, we're thrilled with you,
but we just want to let you know that we
have had thoughts about what's next after Dak, And part
(32:41):
of it is because of your play, and part of
it's because of your durability. So let's see what we
can do this upcoming season.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Just wait till Jerry trades for Kyler Murray next offseason.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
That'll be great. Gosh.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Doug gottlib Show, Fox Sports Radio. No Doug, he was
in for the Herd earlier today, So you got Rich
Ornberger and me Dan Beyer sitting in for Dougs.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
We are hanging out on this Tuesday. Can't do it alone.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
John Romos this year, as is Jason Stewart and our
good buddy Isaac longen Kron brings us a game play.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
This is game Time Game High on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Game Time is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Progressive
makes bundling easy and affordable. Get a multi policy discount
by combining your motorcycle, RV, boat, ATV and more all
your protection in one place. Bundle and save at Progressive
dot com. Isaac, what do we got today?
Speaker 8 (33:41):
Get ready for your one, two threes and three two ones?
Rank them all right. We'll start by having you guys
rank the top three grouchiest coaches in sports. You can
either go current or present, whatever grouchy direction you want.
Some possibilities, of course, well.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
I got I've got one. I got one right off
the top. Yeah, but I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I think Popovich is like I think Papovich is more
grouchy than Belichick.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
Let's go live to San Antonio, Texas, where coach Papovich
himself is standing by for his reaction.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
I have any idea what you're talking about?
Speaker 3 (34:23):
All right? Can I finish my statement.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Well, validated, vindicated? Yes?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
How about uh, how about coach Knight out there in
Hoo's your land? I mean, have you forgotten about him?
Speaker 4 (34:40):
I mean I tried to, sorry, Doug.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Be consistent assault on the players and the officials and
the folding chairs court side. I mean Bobby Knight. That
that sounds like pretty much number one with a bullet.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I thought we were doing active. So that's why that
that's why I didn't know if it was all time.
But yeah, I would agree with you that that Bob
Knight would be number one.
Speaker 8 (35:05):
All right, give me it was give me one more?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Oh boy? I mean Belichick has gotten grouchier and grouchier
as the years ago. Every single time you hear from me,
he's talking about Well, I mean, that's how you have
twenty years of success, you know. I mean, I mean,
I think Belichick has to be up there, at least
with the media.
Speaker 8 (35:24):
All Right, there's a there's a top three that can't
be beat. Sorry to leave out mister happy pants Nick Saban,
by the way, but he got edged out by Bob. Okay,
just because of time contral Just because of time constraints.
I'm gonna have you guys pick the next ranking. We
can either go top three best stadiums, ballparks, or arenas
for food, or we can rank the top three worst stadium, ballpark,
(35:51):
slash arena, parking lots in terms of traffic or atmosphere.
So what do you guys? What would you guys rather
rank parking lots or food?
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Rich? You take it?
Speaker 8 (36:01):
I think food, right, all right, go for it.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Okay, mine is gonna have a decidedly San Diego slant.
But I mean, look up both of these places in
some of the foods that they have available to them,
They're outrageous. So Snapdragon Stadium just opened a year ago
and it has everything you could ever want. Barbecue, tacos,
I mean the list goes on and on. In Peco Park,
(36:25):
Peco Park, where the Padres play is an unbelievable You
could get like these these oh my gosh, burgundy pepper
brisket nachos that will just blow your doors off. And
outside of that, I would say I've had some pretty
good food out East Yankee Stadium is up there for me.
What do you got?
Speaker 8 (36:45):
Buyer ye stand up for Wisconsin, Dan Secret.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Stadium Sauce is a big popular one at the Amfam
formerly Miller Park. But I'm gonna just say this, when
you have the Cotton Bowl in the state far of
Texas and everything is fried, I know it made you
be for one game.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Give me the Cotton Bowl and what goes on in October.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
Game?
Speaker 6 (37:06):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
I thought we were going to preview college football in
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Ohken Traermone Frere, He's Rich Ornberger, I'm Dan Beyer oh Man.
Did he deserve it or not? That's the question, and
it's next here on Fox Sports Radio.
Thanks for listening to the Doug Gotlab Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five,
twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching apps.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Coal lots and lots of football to get to today.
Plus it was in the NBA, it's Erykavic and Major
League Baseball, and now it's affected the National Football League,
or should I say infected the National Football League. As
we are broadcasting live from the tierraq dot com studios
tiraq dot com. We'll help you get there at unmatched selection, fast,
(00:39):
free shipping, free road hazard protection, and over ten thousand
recommended installers tireq dot com the way tire buying should
be rich. I have the sense that there are fans
of thirty one NFL teams that just cannot wait for
the season to start in a little over a week.
And then there's the fan base of the Arizona Cardinals
that I have no idea what the heck they could
(01:00):
be feeling right.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Now, Awful, hopeless, helpless, like the season's over before it
started all would be true. We can play our ding
ding ding ding ding. Because here's the deal. What should
be ringing in all Arizona Cardinals' ears is the fact that,
in short successive order, you've put caller Murray on the
(01:25):
physically unable to perform list, you cut the only veteran
quarterback left on your roster, and Josh Dobbs looks like
he's gonna be your Game one starter. And with a
plethora of other roster moves over the past year, this
team has no hope, no future, and most likely no
(01:48):
wins at least when you look at the schedule on
paper in the foreseeable future. Because this is one of
those seasons that, quite honestly, it feels like the Arizona
Cardinals are aiming to lose in its entirety so that
they can And again, this is my speculation, this is
my conjecture. I have no inside inside the hallowed walls
(02:12):
of the of the Cardinals facility outside of my playing
time there in twenty twelve. But if it looks like
a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it's not,
if it swims like a duck, most likely it's a duck.
So if it looks like tanking, it sounds like tanking,
and they're making roster decisions to be bad at football
this season, then it probably is what it is.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
This seems to be a unifying point across across this
sports country. There are very few dissenting voices in viewing
what the Arizona Cardinals are doing and this entire offseason.
I even remember being in Phoenix at the Super Bowl
Rich and the conversations that we were having were the
(02:55):
Arizona Cardinals not only were not going to be good
this up coming season, but they were still likely on
their way down before they were ever going to go up.
Because at that point you had Kyler Murray still dealing
with the knee injury. You didn't know about the future
of DeAndre Hopkins. Well now he ends up being a
member of the Tennessee Titan, so he's no longer in Arizona.
(03:16):
James Connor is back. Buddha Baker wanted to be traded
this offseason, but he ends up returning. But it seemed
like the Cardinals needed to hit rock bottom first before
then they bounced back up. So that's not a surprise
that it's a bad season. What I think that is
such a surprise is that even when teams have bad
years or you think they're going to have bad years,
(03:39):
there is this little sliver of hope that just maybe,
just maybe your team could surprise someone. And I know
this more than anyone as a Seahawks fan. And last year,
at this point, Rich, we were saying, wait, what Gino
Smith's going to be their starting quarterback? And I know
Seattle had other pe you had dk Metgeff, you had
(04:02):
Tyler Lockett. You ended up, you know, drafting Kenneth Walker,
and you hit you know, a home run or at
least a triple with their two tackles that they drafted.
But still at this time, Rich, last year, I was
scratching my head, but I was curious. I'm like, well,
maybe Russell Wilson was just kind of toxic. Maybe this
is going to pull them together. So even though I
(04:23):
was expecting a bad season for the Seahawks, there was
still some hope. And then what do you know, they
surprised me, end up surprising the NFL and going to
the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Now I'm not saying that's what the Cardinals are doing.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
It's just that I don't remember a time Rich where
we have had a team seemingly tanking in.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
The National Football League.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
We've seen it in the NBA A bunch, we know
the A Stink, the Royal Stink, and baseball that's been
an issue for a while, But I don't ever remember
a time in the National Football League where we have
seen a team seemingly give up before the season even started.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, this is as blatant as it's ever been, at
least to my recollection. And every single move that they've
made virtually since Kyler Murray tore his ACL at the
end of last season, has led you to believe that
the Cardinals weren't exactly gearing up for a sensational campaign
in twenty twenty three. But when you make a decision
(05:20):
like cutting Colt McCoy days before the NFL season, I mean,
this isn't You're not even hiding it at this point,
col McCoy, and I understand, he's thirty six and he's
a journeyman quarterback and it's not like he's Kyler Murray even.
I mean, I get it, I get it. But cold
McCoy took every single first team snap since, including filling
(05:44):
in for Kyler Murray when he was hurt since Kyler
Murray's injury. Every single offseason snap, ran with the first
team the entire offseason, all throughout training camp, every single
spring drill, all throughout the preseason, and then all of
a sudden, he's gone. And the best you can do
is have a ten minute press conference where Jonathan Gannon
gives a whole bunch of jargonese stuff like, Hey, it's
(06:06):
a football decision. We're just doing what's best for the
football team. Really, I mean, is that true or is
this just what you're saying, because what your actions are
doing are improving what you're saying. And everybody's been in
that conversation before in their life, whether it was when
you were a little kid, or maybe it's a marital
(06:26):
relationship thing or whatever. Everybody's had the conversation where it's like, yeah,
I'm hearing what you're saying, but what you're showing me
with your actions is not aligning with what you're saying.
So there needs to be further discussion here and potentially,
and I don't know if there's a huge interest in this,
because I'm sure other teams are guilty of this and
(06:48):
maybe they don't want, you know, to throw stones, living
in glass houses, et cetera, et cetera. But could you
see the competition committee in the NFL coming together and saying, hey,
this is a little too fishy. Maybe we ought to
launch an investigation.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
It would be a big leap. And the reason I
don't see it, Rich is because of what the NFL
has been in the past and what the NFL Draft
has been in the past. Now, could this be the
first step and if we see this a couple of times,
that there could be maybe something brought up where they
(07:24):
look where the league.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Looks into it. Yeah, I think I think that could
be the case.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
The reason why I think that we're getting it now
and why this this situation has evolved to where it is.
It's not a perfect storm, because the perfect storm is
kind of everything just happening coming together all at once.
And while there are certain things that came together, what
I truly believe rich is, and you can ask the
NFL running backs about this, is the NFL has placed
(07:52):
such an importance on the quarterback position, and it's been
a long long time since we have scene maybe the
quarterback not getting a benefit. But now in the National
Football League, you feel you need a quarterback to win
and win consistently, of course, and that's completely obvious. And
(08:12):
now what do you have dangling out there? Caleb Williams
at USC.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
I get it. And that's the you know, that's that's
the apple of this.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And that's why I kind of blame the NFL is
there is now such an importance on getting that position
correct and hitting on that position. I mean, we just
saw the Colts take Anthony Richardson with a fourth overall
pick because the Texans straighted up to three and they
already drafted their quarterback, but we saw him go number
(08:40):
four with you know how, little experience but all that
raw talent. Now he's starting week one, and Bryce Young
is starting week one and CJ Stroud starting week one,
and now you have this I don't want to say
once in a generation, but let's just say it once
in a decade. Maybe Caleb Williams is that is what
is drawing the Cardinals and really could be drawing the
Rams is well to it.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
It's a race to the bottom.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Because of that prospect, because the NFL has made the
quarterback position so darn important that when there is a
prized piece like Caleb Williams. It's better for the franchise
to tank for that season to try to get that
player than anything else.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, you look around the league. Some other contenders, you know,
might be like a Washington Commanders or one of the
teams out of NFC South, whether it's Atlanta or the Bucks. Yeah,
there's a lot of teams the Rams you mentioned the Cardinals. Certainly,
there's a lot of teams that could have really awful
seasons and really didn't look to make an enormous stride
(09:38):
forward this offseason. Maybe a youth movement, you know, in
the case of Atlanta. But like, eh, it just it
sort of feels like there are certain teams that are
positioning themselves to say, hey, okay, look we want to
be competitive, but we also are aware of what's on
the other side of that first round draft pick. So
wouldn't it be cool if Dot and everybody knows what's
(10:02):
on the other side of that ellipse. I look at
what the Cardinals are doing is different though, this is
just so blatant, it's so obvious, it's so in the
face of these Cardinal fans. I think the NFL seriously
has to look at the NFL Draft I think they
have to go to a style of draft and I
never thought I would say this that more resembles what
(10:22):
the NBA does with the draft lottery. And I think
if you want to make it completely fair for fans
who are paying the salaries of these players with their
season ticket prices that they pay, and the concessions and
the gate prices for single game tickets and buying these
television packages to see all these games, like, the best
(10:43):
way you could do this is, Okay, the fourteen teams
that make the postseason, obviously they're going to be shuffled
to the bottom of each of the rounds in the
upcoming draft. But how about those remaining eighteen teams, what
do we do with them? Well, it's been a race
for the bottom every year for certain teams at the
end of the season. But how about we do this
starting from the first team that's eliminated, I mean power
(11:06):
rank it from eight from the first team out of
the postseason all the way to the thirty second team
in the league. And that first team out of the
postseason contention you get eighteen balls, the next one out
you get seventeen balls, and all the way down to
thirty two you get one, you get one, and then
we throw all the balls in the hopper and we
(11:27):
run the lottery, and so you have the best chance
actually to get the first overall pick. If you're the
first out of the playoffs. It's sort of like the
best of the worst bracket. So try to be good.
Don't try to stink out loud, because you actually hurt
your team for longer.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It's a problem with the NBAS. They rewarded the worst teams.
You know, the playing tournament has kind of taken a
little bit of that middle miss. Like you never wanted
to be the eight or nine seed because if you're
in the ninth seed, you didn't make the playoff and
you had no chance at making the or getting the
number one overall big And then if you were the
eighth seed outside of the Miami Heat this past year
and maybe a few other select seasons, you were likely
(12:04):
out after four or five games against the number one seed.
So there was not a lot of benefit in being
in the middle of the league becausey would always reward
the bottom I see, which I if that, if it
had to come to that, if we saw this in
more years, I would before something like that, because you
can't reward a team for losing, you just you can't.
And plays players don't care about that sort of stuff.
(12:26):
The players don't care about the draft, and you would
know more so than anyone because you played the game.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Rich.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
The last thing you want to, you know, the team
to do is to draft or eventual replacement, right, you know,
so trying to so trying to get that star quarterback
if you're the quarterback. Yeah, maybe it's not the greatest
thing in the world that your team gets the number
one pick and then you're ousted.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
It's job security. So I like your version of it.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
What is so crazy about this is I've heard everybody
on the same page, you know, like we all view
the Arizona Cardinals as tanking, everyone except Jason Stewart, our
executive producer, who comes at this from a completely different angle.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
I want to be that friend in the room that
always plays the devil's advocate and most people hate that guy.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
But can I just.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Kind of slow everybody down a little bit here and
you tell me if I'm crazy. And the only thing
that's going to actually prove this is you could we
could have this conversation to get it in January. But
when everybody is on the same page about something, and
Rich Ornberger is on national radio talking about what the
NFL needs to do to mitigate these things, and the
(13:35):
assumption is that the Cardinals are tanking. The assumption is
that Caleb Williams is a camp miss. I need to
remind people about the phrase tank for Tua? Was that
a camp miss? Did he even go first? Overall? I
want to remind people about the Seattle Seahawks that Dan
has already talked about last year. I think you maybe
(13:58):
could have made a compelling argument that Pete Carroll was
doing the same thing. He was screaming from the mountaintops. No,
he thought he had a pretty good team in place,
and nobody believed him. Would the Cardinals really bring in
a new head coach and a new GM to tank
right away? I remember when in baseball when they actually
had to pitch the four pitches for a walk. I
(14:21):
would always be like, why did they just make a
pitching change for the new guy to do what the
guy who they just replaced could have done throw four pitches?
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Why would they.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Bring in a new regime to immediately tank? Yeah, So,
when everybody's saying and you guys, are ninety It's like
a ninety five percent to five here. But allow me
to be the devil's advocate and you tell me that
my reasoning is off.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I like the side that you're playing, because I do
agree with you that there is a possibility that the
Arizona Cardinals feel like, honestly, what they did in moving
some picks to get Joshua Dobbs is what's best for
their football team in their future. And maybe there's an
outside chance that you're right that they're going to be
(15:05):
like Pete Carroll last offseason, screaming from the mountaintops, We're good.
We are We're actually good, and you don't believe us,
but you'll find out.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Maybe.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Here's here's the way I look at it. These are people,
These are people with jobs who are in charge of
making these decisions. And who are the people who are
making these decisions? Well, these owners hire people to make
these decisions for them, and these people need to come
to their bosses, the owners of these football teams, with plans,
and whether we'll ever get to see the emails to
prove that this is an actual tank job or not,
(15:38):
those conversations probably go a lot like this, Hey, look,
it's gonna be a rough year. Okay, we are going,
I'm sure this is uh awesome, what's his name? Awesome
for it? Going to the general, going to Michael Bidwell,
the owner of the Arizona Cardinals, and he's going, look,
this is gonna be a really bad season for us.
But here's the pitch we hang to. We stink out loud.
(16:01):
We're gonna have a little bit of trouble selling some
season tickets this season because people are gonna be aware
of what's going on. But on the other side, we
have a sunny path because Caleb Williams of USC is
going to be potentially a two time Heisman winner and
we are going to have the best shot at bring
him in into our organization. Team on three, team on three,
(16:22):
one two three, Okay, let's go.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Let's go suck.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Like to me, that's like a real legitimate conversation that
happens in front offices away from the light of day,
and there are owners who buy it. They go, yeah, honestly,
based on our salary cap restrictions and based on what
we have on our current roster, that is our best
way forward.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
So whether it's.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Tank for two or it's tank for Caleb or Tank
for whoever, because this won't be the last time this
happens to me. In order to preserve your occupation, sometimes
you've got to do the wrong thing to do the
right thing, and it doesn't feel good. Everybody's taking a
heaping scoop of humble pie over there in Arizona, but
they're hopeful that your secret season ticket sales ahead of
(17:07):
the Caleb Williams season are going to be skyrocketing past
what you're selling this this offseason.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I would also add this again, get in on it.
When he took the job, he knew what it was. Yeah,
so you know, so he knows the process, the whole
handling of Kyler Murray. And I was thinking about this,
I'm like, geez, Kyler Murray plays this year. Maybe the
Cardinals are trying to win games. Then I thought about it.
You go oh and four or whatever it is to
(17:33):
start this season with Josh Dobbs as your quarterback.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Yeah, I know he knows some of the coaches and
knows some of the scheme. Whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You still don't bring in a guy four days prior
to the start of the season and start them two
weeks later. That stuff you do in like Week fifteen.
But if you play Kyler Murray this year, you know
what else it does, Rich is it shows teams he's
back from his knee injury. So when we do stink
and we have already been Owen twelve or whatever, then
(18:01):
when we do win a couple of games with Kyler Murray,
when we trade Kyler Murray, you don't have to have
any questions about his knee into exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I think that is so smart, right because this isn't
just a plan that starts today like Okay, let's go
out there and lose every single game. No no, no, no, no,
no no, Because you want to be careful about how
you execute everything with Kyler. Make sure he's one hundred
percent before he goes out there. Make sure that he's
a tradable candidate, especially with the amount of salary that's
(18:27):
going to come with him. You're going to offload that
to I don't know, I mean, name the quarterback needy
team out there who might be interested. The Commanders. You know,
there's going to be a team this offseason or potentially
before the trade deadline that's going to be interested in
Kyler Murray. So if that's the case, man like I
think this. I think this had to be a plan
(18:49):
that was hatched in the dark back rooms of the
Arizona Cardinals front office that will never reach the light
of day, but ultimately we all know what's going on.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports Radio. He's Rich Hoarrenberger,
the NFL VET. I'm Dan Beyer sitting in for Doug.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Today.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Former NFL scout and host of the Three and Out podcast,
John Middlecoff joins us to talk. You know, we're talking
to NFL and Rich and I just spent the last
eighteen minutes or so John talking about this Arizona Cardinals situation,
and I feel like the whole world is united in
this tanking belief of what's happening in Phoenix right now
(19:38):
are in Glendale.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
What would be a reason? Is there any reason?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Is maybe the better question on why Colt McCoy would
be released in favor of Josh Dobbs or a fifth
round bank?
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Could you make.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Any sense to make it look like the Cardinals aren't
just throwing in the towel on this season.
Speaker 7 (19:57):
Well one, he's injured, right, he had been banged up,
he got hurt last year. He's ben hurts rout his career.
He's older. Listen, I think if you had cut Carson
Palmer at the end of his career or some established starter.
I mean, we're talking Colt McCoy. I'm going to push
back in the tanking. Who really cares? I mean, does
(20:19):
it really matter that they're going to try to win
games in the season. They're just not going to because
they're terrible and I can't put that. Listen. I don't
know if this head coach is going to be any good,
but this is not his fault. I mean, that team's
in shamples. They should blow it up. It was not
the GM now that gave Kyler Murray that contract, which
(20:40):
is insanity, which is going to you know, be in
albatrosh on their team. But aren't they starting. I mean,
I'm not super locked into their roster, but a rookie
like that's the guy they drafted, you might as well
see what you got. I have absolutely no problem with
it at all. They haven't even played a game yet.
Let's see how it plays out.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I don't look, I definitely appreciate that standpoint, but I
think what we're more talking about is less about maybe
Jonathan Gannon or the perception of tanking. It's more of
roster construction. I get in your opinion, was there any
better way to go about this? Like, for example, you know,
(21:24):
cutting Colt McCoy seemed awfully suspicious after taking every single
first team rep. You know, since Kyler Murray injured himself.
You know it just again, I don't know if I
necessarily disagree with you that it isn't a path forward
and that people will overreact to tanking in general. But
from a competitive standpoint, and for the fan base, you know,
(21:47):
the people who buy the season tickets and pay the
concessions and all that stuff, it's it's a tough putt
to say, hey, we're looking forward to a competitive twenty
twenty three when you see all the moves that they made.
Speaker 7 (22:00):
Thing though, is like they're not looking for a competitive
twenty twenty three. And if you're a season ticket holder,
you know, you kind of see what happened the last
couple of years and the reason why they were going
to blow it up. The other thing is just from
a personnel standpoint, you know, it's I guess not normal
to start a fifth round pick, but when you are
easily one of the worst rosters in the league and
(22:21):
a lot of guys they've gotten rid of, Like Cole
McCoy was their guy, but they inherit him. They trade
Isaiah Simmons, that's not their guy. I mean, isn't that
pretty normal protocol? I mean, this team was terrible last year, right,
It's one thing to go in and if you the
coach gets fired because you lose in the first round
in the playoffs and blow everything up, Like when the
Eagles hired Siriani, they still had a lot of pieces.
This team, you know, was kind of smoke and mirrors
(22:44):
really and ever since that eight and one started a
couple of years ago. But like maybe they think that
what's going to look on this fifth round quarterback and
it's not like they have nobody behind. They traded for
a guy who's played in the league, who has you know,
showed some success of just being a functional back up
quarterback in Joshua Dobbs. Right, So you know, Colt McCoy,
you're talking about thirty eight year old journeyman backup. I
(23:07):
just I can't get warped up on cutting Colt McCoy,
who listen. I like the guy. I've been watching his
career since he was in college. But I think we're
acting a little bit like this is cutting. I don't know,
just some established starter and that's just not the case.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
John Middlecoff joining us here on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Should Dak Prescott be concerned about the acquisition of Trey
Lance in Dallas?
Speaker 7 (23:29):
No, I mean Trey Lance is two years away best
case scenario from being a year away to be able
to do what Dak Prescott can do on a bad game.
Dak Prescott's in a different universe as a player than
Trey Lance. To me, Jerry Oil salesman likes doing deals
wheeler and dealer, Dak Prescott, I mean, I heard you.
(23:54):
I was talking to Gottlieb yesterday and he asked me
if he saw some similarities in when they drafted Jordan Love.
If you remember, like once Aaron met Jordan Love, he
didn't have a problem with the person. He saw one
play realized this guy has no chance of taking him down.
It was just the mindset of drafting a first round quarterback.
They traded a fourth round pick, which Dallas is good.
(24:14):
You're talking about a pick at what past one hundred
and twenty. You're paying a guy a couple million dollars
is just the ultimate flyer. He's a third and listen,
I'm guilty of this, so I'm not acting like this
to you guys. We have never ever in the history
of the league discussed a third string quarterback as much
as Trey Lance, and I think that's about to die
(24:35):
because you're never going to hear about it anymore because
Cooper rushes the backup Trey Lance. I don't exactly know
how McCarthy runs practice, but you know, part of the
reason Shanahan got rid of them is because their second
string quarterback runs the scout team. So your third string
quarterback just stands there and it didn't make any sense, right.
But Trey Lance and Dak Prescott, the only thing they
have in common is they both play quarterback. And listen,
(24:57):
I'm not some Dak Prescott truther here. I questioned once
he started making huge money, you know, but he's still
whatever the ten to eleven twelve best quarterback. Trey Lance
couldn't be out to Sam Darnell on the forty nine
or so I think this discussion. I don't blame you.
I did it too, It's just it's outrageous.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, completely agree with you. John Middlcoff joining us here
on the Doug gott Lieb Show Fox Sports Radio. You know,
I'm thinking to myself, John, when I think about who
could potentially appear in the Super Bowl, I'm having a
hard time picturing anybody other than the Chiefs and the Eagles,
Like it feels like those are the two best rosters
(25:38):
on paper heading into this season and the close seconds,
I mean, outside of say the forty nine ers. I
guess he can make an argument for the Bills, but
we've seen that story so many times already between the
Chiefs and the Bills that I'm having a hard time
imagining anybody else playing in the final game. Convince me
otherwise if you can.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
Yeah, I've kind of been saying there's like a tier,
and I think in fairness to the Chiefs, they just
got to be on their own tier. I mean, they're
currently in their version of what the Patriots with Belichick
and Brady did with Andy and Mahomes. And I know you,
you know us out here on the West Coast. We
watched the AFC West closely that they have on that division,
which is good.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
You know.
Speaker 7 (26:18):
So I think if you put them on their own
tier and then in that next tier, to me, I
would put the Eagles, the Niners, the Cowboys, the Bills,
and the Bengals, And to me, it's all about health
wise going into the playoffs, how you're playing now. The
difference obviously between the two AFC teams is like if
bro or Allen catch just on a heater, you know
(26:38):
they easily can carry their team to the super Bowl
and win it. Just because those guys are just elite players.
I think when you look at the flip side, you
know the forty nine ers will see I mean, they
have an unknown at quarterback and I'm rooting for him.
Willie Sneve said the other day it reminds him when
he was playing with Drew Brees, Like clearly the forty
nine Ers and Shanahan loved the guy. But he's got
to prove it. He's the question mark, right and he's
(27:01):
already been injured. And obviously Dak Prescott, who last year
had the game of his career and just an unrel
I mean at any level, an unreal game in a
playoff game, but that Tampa Bay team was terrible and
then for the second straight year struggled against the forty
nine ers, who in fairness are in e leite defense.
But that's who you gotta play. So I would say
that it's the forty nine Ers, the Cowboys, the Eagles,
(27:23):
and the other thing with Jalen, Like, obviously the forty
nine er or I mean, excuse me, the Eagles roster
is awesome. They lost a couple of coordinators. You know, Jalen,
no one can argue what he did last year and
how awesome he was in the Super Bowl and just
he just got to read a couple of stories or
talk to anyone that knows the guy. He's an easy
person to root for because all his intangibles, but being
a great player right is doing it year in year out,
(27:46):
year in year out. So it's there is pressure on
him now that he's gotten this money. It'll be interesting,
you know how they handle that. But I mean they
got half of George's roster defensively that they should be better.
I actually think that when you look at the East,
the other team, I'm not putting on that tier because
they kind of got shoved around by the Cowboys and
definitely by the Eagles. I do think the Giants could
be a little better. You know, if you remember, you know,
(28:08):
years ago when Alex when Harbaugh first got there and
then he just gave him confidence and then Alex never
looked back. Now, he was never going to be some
top five quarterback, but Alex Smith became a really, really
good starter. Daniel Jones has more physical attributes than Alex,
and I think there are a lot of similarities in
terms of, like to the academic background. The guy's a genius.
(28:29):
He's a good athlete. People love him. He just now
you get him Darren Waller, you got Saquon you know,
his signed that franchise tender really early, so he's been
in camp the whole time. They drafted the guy. Highatt
if Dave Ball to me is like the next obviously
he's the coach of the Year last year. But I mean,
if he becomes you know another Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan
(28:51):
and you know Sean Payton, Andy Reid, which it feels
like a lot of people would bet on that over
the next ten years. Maybe they're just gonna be really good,
and they got a lot of young talents should be
as sending right. They had high draft picks the last
couple of years, definitely two years ago when they draft
the offensive linees and the defensive lineman from Morgan. So
I'm pretty intrigued by the Giants. I thought they were
a little flash in the pan last year, but their
(29:13):
off season was awesome. And it's a coach quarterback league,
and if the coach is really good and the quarterback
just keeps, you know, I don't know if he's a
forty million dollars player, but I'm bullish on Daniel Jones.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I really like the Giants as well.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And for the record, I also don't believe that Trey
Lance is a threat to Dack. But I did have
to ask John Middlekoff the question if he thought Trey
Lance was a threat to Dack. So there was no
that was not leaning an opinion in there anyway. I
was just presenting it on the plates for John Middlekoff's open.
Speaker 7 (29:43):
Well. One thing, one thing's clear, and this is and
I've been saying this now since the trade happened. No
one until he ever proves that he's like a legit,
high end starter, which is going to be very very
difficult for him to do just because he's never gonna
get a chance to play. Is ever going to care
about him like the forty nine ers did right give
and what they traded for him. So Mike McCarthy, Jerry
even admitted, I don't know if he gave it. You know,
(30:05):
Jerry gives us seven press conferences a week, so it's
hard to tell what day he gave it. But after
the trade he said he didn't tell Mike. Now, Mike
claimed that he liked him coming out of the draft,
but after Will Greer, you know, looked like Peyton Manning
meets Tom Brady in that preseason game. You can tell
Mike was a little shock, like he you know, I
can imagine Mike if Trey Lance trade never would have happened,
probably pounding the table. Let's keep this guy as their
(30:26):
third quarterback right behind Cooper Rush and obviously Dak Prescott.
So we all know that if the coach listen, Jerry
is in this weird scenarious situation because he's a GM
and he's the owner. But it's not like Jerry the
practice every day. It's not like Jerry's running the scout
team that if Mike doesn't want to operate with this guy,
Trey Lance actually could get less work with the Cowboys
(30:47):
than he even did it with the forty nine ers
when people thought he was getting screwed.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Yeah, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Oh what a career. What a career, John. We appreciate
the time. Hit him straight. We'll talk to you again
next week.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Thanks so much, you guys, take it easy.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I just had to terrify, you know, one of the
things that broadcasting rich they say, you know, get to
the questions quick, don't ramble on.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
You know. I didn't feel my opinion was needed in
that situation.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I just felt Middlekoff thought that I was saying Trey
Lance is a threat to Dak Prescott.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Yeah, I had to defend my ground.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I do think, and look, I'm not a Trey Lance apologist.
I don't think that he did a particularly good job
when he got his opportunities in San Francisco and he
was hurt. I mean, durability is your most important ability,
whether you can control that or not. But I do
feel like there's a little bit of messaging from Jerry
Jones because not only did he trade for Trey Lance
(31:38):
and give a fourth rounder to the San Francisco forty
nine ers for whatever that's worth. Well, it's worth a
fourth rounder. But he also made a comment this week
on radio where he was talking about how back when
Jalen Hurts was coming out of the draft, he strongly
considered drafting him. So all of that happens in one week,
(31:58):
and we're left to just assume that Jerry Jones is
one hundred percent satisfied and and and and happy with
Dak's performances lately. It just sort of feels like he's
trying he's trying to stoke the fire a little bit.
He's trying to do the thing that the Green Bay
Packers did with Aaron Rodgers while they still had him.
(32:20):
And guess what I mean from an individual play standpoint,
with Rogers, at least it worked. I mean, he ended
up winning the back to back MVP. So there's there's
this feeling of like, hey, Dak, we're thrilled with you,
but we just want to let you know that we
have had thoughts about what's next after Dak, And part
(32:41):
of it is because of your play, and part of
it's because of your durability. So let's see what we
can do this upcoming season.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Just wait till Jerry trades for Kyler Murray next offseason.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
That'll be great. Gosh.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Doug gottlib Show, Fox Sports Radio. No Doug, he was
in for the Herd earlier today, So you got Rich
Ornberger and me Dan Beyer sitting in for Dougs.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
We are hanging out on this Tuesday. Can't do it alone.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
John Romos this year, as is Jason Stewart and our
good buddy Isaac longen Kron brings us a game play.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
This is game Time Game High on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Game Time is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Progressive
makes bundling easy and affordable. Get a multi policy discount
by combining your motorcycle, RV, boat, ATV and more all
your protection in one place. Bundle and save at Progressive
dot com. Isaac, what do we got today?
Speaker 8 (33:41):
Get ready for your one, two threes and three two ones?
Rank them all right. We'll start by having you guys
rank the top three grouchiest coaches in sports. You can
either go current or present, whatever grouchy direction you want.
Some possibilities, of course, well.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
I got I've got one. I got one right off
the top. Yeah, but I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I think Popovich is like I think Papovich is more
grouchy than Belichick.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
Let's go live to San Antonio, Texas, where coach Papovich
himself is standing by for his reaction.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
I have any idea what you're talking about?
Speaker 3 (34:23):
All right? Can I finish my statement.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Well, validated, vindicated? Yes?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
How about uh, how about coach Knight out there in
Hoo's your land? I mean, have you forgotten about him?
Speaker 4 (34:40):
I mean I tried to, sorry, Doug.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Be consistent assault on the players and the officials and
the folding chairs court side. I mean Bobby Knight. That
that sounds like pretty much number one with a bullet.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I thought we were doing active. So that's why that
that's why I didn't know if it was all time.
But yeah, I would agree with you that that Bob
Knight would be number one.
Speaker 8 (35:05):
All right, give me it was give me one more?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Oh boy? I mean Belichick has gotten grouchier and grouchier
as the years ago. Every single time you hear from me,
he's talking about Well, I mean, that's how you have
twenty years of success, you know. I mean, I mean,
I think Belichick has to be up there, at least
with the media.
Speaker 8 (35:24):
All Right, there's a there's a top three that can't
be beat. Sorry to leave out mister happy pants Nick Saban,
by the way, but he got edged out by Bob. Okay,
just because of time contral Just because of time constraints.
I'm gonna have you guys pick the next ranking. We
can either go top three best stadiums, ballparks, or arenas
for food, or we can rank the top three worst stadium, ballpark,
(35:51):
slash arena, parking lots in terms of traffic or atmosphere.
So what do you guys? What would you guys rather
rank parking lots or food?
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Rich? You take it?
Speaker 8 (36:01):
I think food, right, all right, go for it.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Okay, mine is gonna have a decidedly San Diego slant.
But I mean, look up both of these places in
some of the foods that they have available to them,
They're outrageous. So Snapdragon Stadium just opened a year ago
and it has everything you could ever want. Barbecue, tacos,
I mean the list goes on and on. In Peco Park,
(36:25):
Peco Park, where the Padres play is an unbelievable You
could get like these these oh my gosh, burgundy pepper
brisket nachos that will just blow your doors off. And
outside of that, I would say I've had some pretty
good food out East Yankee Stadium is up there for me.
What do you got?
Speaker 8 (36:45):
Buyer ye stand up for Wisconsin, Dan Secret.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Stadium Sauce is a big popular one at the Amfam
formerly Miller Park. But I'm gonna just say this, when
you have the Cotton Bowl in the state far of
Texas and everything is fried, I know it made you
be for one game.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Give me the Cotton Bowl and what goes on in October.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
Game?
Speaker 6 (37:06):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
I thought we were going to preview college football in
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Ohken Traermone Frere, He's Rich Ornberger, I'm Dan Beyer oh Man.
Did he deserve it or not? That's the question, and
it's next here on Fox Sports Radio.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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