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May 15, 2020 116 mins

Doug thinks the stars of Major League Baseball are making a mistake with the way they are handling the debate over returning to play. He also reacts to Aaron Rodgers’ first public comments since the Packers drafted QB Jordan Love in the 1st round. Plus, Packers Insider Aaron Nagler joins the show to tell Doug if the Packers have enough weapons on offense for Rodgers to succeed.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Doug gott Leap Show podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday three to
six Eastern twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for the Doug got Leave Show
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the I Heart Radio app by searching
fs R. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Hey, welcome

(00:26):
in to the Friday Podcast. Quite the show we have
for you. Aaron Rodgers spoke, We listened. Aaron Nagler from
Cheesehead TV joins us, so to John Middlecoff, former NFL
Scout three Out podcast host, and Corey Peters really talented
defensive lineman and a brilliant guy from the Arizona Cardinals
joins us. First though, I want to get to baseball

(00:47):
and some of the things that players have been saying
about the deal they're trying to strike to get back
on the field. Boom America, Doug Got Leave Show, Fox
Sports Radio, Quarantine Day number. I don't know. I don't
know a lot more than we thought, less than forever.
There you go, Welcome in. Um, I got a great

(01:09):
Carol Baskin story for you. Oh you're like, wait, what
I'm in. I know right, I'm in not not? Uh.
Corey Peter is gonna join us. UH Cardinals. A defensive
lineman John middle Cauf will join us from her Scout
three and out host on a great podcast which you
should download. Aaron nil is gonna join us. He is
the president of Cheesehead Nation. She's had TV. Aaron Rodgers

(01:34):
speaking to the media today, will react to what he says,
especially in regards to the Jordan Love draft pick upcoming.
And there's a lot to get to. We have the
final two episodes of The Last Dance, which will not
only culminate in the walkoff game winning shot in Game
six of the ninety eight finals, but people might have

(01:56):
forgotten the nineties seven finals. Also in Utah, Game five
was the flu game in which Jordan had thirty eight
under the weather. On some level, we'll find out more
details about that, I'm sure on Sunday. Also, in reviewing
all the stats, I had forgotten that Jordan's who had
left shots short before in Game six, shot the ball

(02:16):
fairly poorly. One of the reasons he held his follow
through that iconic photo was because he was reminding himself
he had left it short, which is what should tell kids. Right.
It goes back to the fundamentals of hoop. You want
to make sure you don't leave it shorthold that follow
through lett or as they say, billy hole hoil. Let's
just say says it in a white man can't jump,

(02:37):
Gotta let a breathe, Gotta let a breathe sometimes. Um
Jordan had forty five in his final game in the
Build Bulls uniform. Forty five was a number significant he
warred after his dad passed away when he returned to baseball,
returned from baseball anywhere, because that was the first number
his dad saw him play in. Just having to have

(02:58):
forty five as his last game is a remember the
Chicago Bulls. Um, all right, there's a there's there's a
lot to get to here. Let me start with baseball.
Who continues to butcher this thing? Not because they're not
gonna play. They're gonna play once you start getting to
details of a breakdown, you're gonna play. But because of

(03:22):
what Blake Snell said and the reaction to what Blake
Snell said. First, if you missed Blake Snell, for people
who don't follow based on a daily basis, he won
the Cy Young Award. Honestly, I would guess least known
Cy Young Award living in America? Is that fair? Like
if I went through and I started naming guys in
one second where you're like, oh yeah, like Felix Fernandez Kingfish,

(03:47):
who of course finished up his run with the Seattle Mariners.
Remember he won it one year like a thirteen wins
or something like that. Something crazy because his because his
all all of his metrics were through the roof. They
played with a bad team. Felix Hernandez. You know, Blake
Snell has not yet climbed that mount. Any plays in

(04:09):
Tampa whatever, but Blake Snell is an outstanding player. He
last year's side a long term deal five years, fifty
million dollars, but the money doesn't really kick in until
next year. Here was Blake Snell on Instagram going back
to yesterday. If I'm gonna play, I should we get
the money I signed to be getting paid. I should
not begin half of what I'm getting paid because the

(04:29):
season is couldn't half on top of a thirty three
percent cut of the half that's already there. On top
of that is getting taxed. So imagine how much I'm
actually making to play, you know what I'm saying. And
on top of that, so all that money's gone, and
now I play risk in my life. And what if
I get the rona? On top of half, I get
the rona. Guess what happens with that? Oh yeah, that's stay.

(04:50):
That's in my body forever. That damage is not gonna
be like the damage that was done in my body.
That's gonna be there forever. Okay, like listen, all of this,
all of these are reasonable concerns. I don't think he's
being unreasonable, but I do think that there's a disconnect
with one the rest of society. Thirty six million people unemployed,
many people furloughed, so they don't actually get to claim unemployment.

(05:14):
But there's also this disconnect of you don't have a
real job, my friend, not just in terms of the
level of pay, but in a real job. When that
place shuts down, nobody gets paid. And these contracts are
not long, not binding. They have what we told you yesterday,

(05:35):
a forced MAJORI clause, active god clause, and anything you
thought you were gonna make, you weren't gonna make. The
The disconnect continues with guys like Bryce Harper. He told
the NBC Sports Philadelphia, he ain't lying, He's speaking the truth. Bro,
I ain't ad at him. Somebody's got to say it.

(05:55):
At least he manned up and said it. Good for him.
I love style, guys, based one of the best lefties
in the game. What part of what he said do
you agree with? Is it the giving back money? Because
nobody likes giving back money. Everybody know he's gotten a
call from the boss either telling them they're going to
or we'd sure like you too, but we can't ask
you too because of the nature of our relationship. Give

(06:16):
back some money. Here's Nolan Arnado far more balanced. Maybe
it's because he's a so cal told Ken Rosenthal, Fox Sports.
I think he was being Honest's just being really made
a lot of good points. There are some points he
made that were true, that are facts. A lot gets
misperceived trying to get the public to understand us. It's
not gonna work very well in our favor. I guarantee

(06:36):
that if you read the comments, you're probably thinking, you
don't have to work twelve hours a day. You're not
the only one without a job. You still get paid.
These people have a right to say that that that's
the big thing, Like, look, we I do I understand
especially and like Snell is not a veteran. He doesn't

(06:56):
have kids in school from private school or moving around
the country because switching baseball teams and you know, like, look,
Blake SNeW is going to make a whole hell of
a lot of money the next couple of years. That
is guaranteed locked in stone, Like it's actually worse off
for these guys like Mookie Betts and Aaron Judge who
are yet to sign the big deal. And no one
knows what the next deals are gonna look like, because

(07:18):
no one knows what baseball financially will look like when
we're done. But Rob Bamford said, if they don't have
a season, they estimate the total loss for the owners
at four billion dollars or billion dollars. That that's not
just a hey, let's let's start playing together and everybody's fine,

(07:39):
Like do you understand if you're if there's a negative
four million, yes, you'll save money in taxes in the future,
save money in taxes because you can write off that loss.
But it's actually a real loss and you've got to
get to cash positive. You just do. I've I've read
people I've read where people say, well, you know, the

(08:00):
value of a franchise continues to go up. First of all,
that ain't true. Who's got the money outside of Jeff
Bezos to buy a franchise right now? And why do
you have to sell a franchise? Can't you run a
franchise and not off not and not operate as a
as a loser every time you follow your books? So

(08:24):
I I understand the the anger that comes from Major
League Baseball and the Players Association, who, look, this happened,
and they're a year away but starting to deal with
the upcoming expiring collective barn agreement, one which for the
first time in history they didn't feel like they got
the better end of a deal. I understand that. And

(08:47):
you're just sitting there going like, wait, I'm I'm not
making as much money and they want me to take
an additional haircut even if we come back and play.
How does that make sense. Well, they're not gonna have
fans in the stands. The luxury boxes can't be sold,
the parking can't be sold to concessions. We still owe

(09:11):
people money, the bills still remain relatively the same, only
there isn't necessarily the the income. This is an evolving situation,
which which which requires an evolving partnership between players and owners. Look,
I'm I'm not saying you give in the owners say X,

(09:33):
and you sign for X. It's a negotiation. But the
idea that it's unreasonable to ask for a greater giveback
when now that we have more information and now it
appears to be a probability even likelihood, that they play
baseball without fans in the stands. So you contract the season,

(09:54):
you eliminate the fans and oh yeah, by the way,
all of those sponsors. First of all, Like I don't
think what people understand is it's not just the purchase
of the seats and of the boxes, all of that
in stadium signage. Unless it can be seen on a
TV camera, you're gonna have to give all that give

(10:15):
the money back or have to make good for years
to come, which will make your books off in the future.
So in this evolving situation, you have to be reasonable
and say, we hear you're willing to make a deal.
We want to make this work. We're not giving back
all our money. We want to mutually absorb some of

(10:37):
these losses and understand that long term we're always gonna
play and there's always gonna be baseball. We want to
get back on the field. We don't want to sign
some terrible deal and and rush into it. But this
idea of complaining about losing money for services that are
aren't rendered when you have plenty of people that are
losing jobs simply because well scientists said you got to

(10:59):
shut it down for the safety of yourself and the
safety of others. And look, I get it. I get
the idea of hey, I could go out and I
get to Rhona and maybe I never get well. One
there isn't the statistical data that says it's a likelihood
right at your age, in your physical condition, it's not

(11:19):
a likelihood that you either one get sick and even
less likely that it becomes sort of some sort of
lasting damage. And to maybe most importantly, do you realize
that you are never actually safe previously? Do do you
realize that I'm not saying that that that the coronavirus
was out there, but there's plenty of other things that
were out there that we haven't limited people's access to

(11:43):
a ballpark, and not even talking about firearms I'm talking
about viruses that are that are out there. Plenty of
other things that can happen to any American and we
we want to view it as freedom, but that freedom
also does not protect us nearly as much as other countries.
You know, stars was out there, Other viruses were out there.

(12:06):
We didn't have masks, we didn't have this sort of protection,
and they were as in some cases more deadly. Granted
didn't touch down. The United States didn't have these sorts
of numbers. But the idea that hey, I'm not going
back to him a percent safe. I hate to break
it to you, but once once somebody goes into a
school and shoots second graders, nobody is safe. I guess

(12:30):
it's the assumption of safety. It's maybe the beauty to
living in our country. But you are an entertainment based enterprise, right,
That's that's what being a baseball player. You are an entertainer.
And with any entertainer that has a live concert, if
you can't have people in the building, you're gonna take

(12:53):
a loss. How great loss. That's a negotiation. But this
I'm speaking the troops, Yeah, from your perspective, your perspective,
because what they could do is they could cut you
guys all loose and end up in court and say, hey,
there's this forced MAJORI clause in everybody's contract. Act of God.

(13:16):
Put you out on the free agent market where you
think I'm gonna get paid, and then you start to
realize that all of those millionaire billionaire owners that you
think are just made of money are gonna sit there
and go like, hey, I'm four billion in the hole.
I'm gonna pay guys as little as possible. Just put
any sort of product out there, get people in the stands,

(13:37):
and get cash. Positive before I ever think about investing
in a left hand picture. No matter how good and
he's good, he's really good, how good he is, he
ain't lying, bro, speaking the truth. Bro, here's the truth.
You're not in the real business. It doesn't mean you
have to somehow be happy to be there and take

(13:58):
any sort of offer, But negotiating in public when the
public is losing their job and by the way, losing
value in their four oh one k on a daily
basis probably not smart play when you need that same
public to wrap their arms around you. If and when
you return this season or whenever you return to playing baseball,
coming up next, Did you see that a star quarterbacks

(14:25):
home is for sale? There comes a time when it
makes sense to move on from a star quarterback, even
one that's relatively in his prime. Has that time come
for one quarterback we discussed next. Be sure to catch
the live edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays
at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports

(14:47):
Radio and the I Heart Radio Whap. Aaron Rodgers talking
to the media will bring you some of his comments
at the top of the hour. There were rumors speed
of quarterbacks in the NFC North. There were rumors about
the Lilions potentially trading staff for Matthew Stafford this year
for the opportunity draft to a tongue of Viaoa. Stafford
reworked his contract in two thousand order to lower the capit,

(15:09):
but essentially made his contract untradeable at the time because
the Lions would have had million dollars in dead money
as of now. That would no longer be the case
after the two thousand and twenty season. So I guess
the question becomes, if you are the Lions, do you
consider trading Matt Stafford coming off of an injury plague season? Um.

(15:29):
A couple of different things too that I need you
to take into account. I saw this and it was
really interesting. His um, his home is up for sale.
It's it's right on the lake in Detroit. It's on
a body of water, and it's pretty spectacle, pretty spectacular
house by anyone's standards. And look, I want to make

(15:50):
sure that this is clear. When I had robbed Parker
on a couple days ago, I made fun of Detroit.
Detroit's easy to make fun of because well, I do
think it. There's parts of it that are scary that
I'm not not a huge fan of. The suburbs of
Detroit are spectacular. I have friends that lived there that rave, rave,
rave about them. But his wife basically said, hey, look,

(16:10):
we're about to have our fourth child. We're gonna have
four under four, and we have a that house has
a pool and is right by a big body of water.
No thanks. That's about his real and his honest uh honest,
A A take from a mom as possible. It's one
of the reasons that you gotta be careful about putting
in a pool in your house, Like, oh, put in

(16:30):
a pool, want to have a pool? A pool doesn't
necessarily make your house more valuable in many ways. A
pool at times, especially if there's no pool covering or
pool fence, many ways, it can limit the viability of
selling your home. This is we're doing real estate one
on one here in the Gottlieb Show. Right yesterday we
did let's stay, we did mortgages. They will do pools.

(16:52):
So what we do here? So I guess the question
becomes like, do you move on from Matt Stafford? My
answer is, let's see, right, let's see. I know, I look,
I understand. If they have another bad season, there's a
chance of Bob Quinn's fired. There's a chance of Matt
Patricians fired. There's a chance of Matt they move on

(17:13):
from Matt Stafford. Everything's on the table. They got off
to a decent start than just besieged by injuries. They
hadn't solved the running back issue last year. Really didn't
have a ton, uh nearly enough offensive weapons for him.
But this is a wait and see year. A super

(17:35):
talented guy who has not won a playoff game. Although
we we kind of quickly forget when they played against
Dallas in the playoffs. I don't know how many years
ago that was they did not get the best end
of the officiating that unless they lost the game. That's
how big those those playoff losses can be. It's like, now, well,
Matt staff for doing a game he played well. I

(17:55):
felt like there's some shaky officiating in that call in
that game. Calvin Johnson retired a little bit early. They've
had injuries. You know, you go through a coaching change
where they're trying to completely change the culture. Personally, I
don't think they move on from Matt Stafford. But this
will be a proven year because at the end of

(18:16):
this year that that dead cap money for being traded
goes away. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter
noon Pacific. Corey Peters joins us in The Doug Gotlip
Show on Fox Sport Trader. First, Corey, how are you, Oh, Corey,
how are you? I'm doing well? Um, Corey Peters. Peters

(18:39):
defensive tackle Arizona Cardinals. A lot to talk about with
their club, but I want to start with this. So
you were you a big reader when you were a kid.
I'm alwaysn't a big reader, but my parents, uh, you know,
made me read thirty minutes sometimes an hour day and
I hated it. But um, as I've gotten older and
I'm starting to travel more, um, you know that's what

(18:59):
I do a lot of my free time. I do
a lot when we're traveling on planes and stuff like that. So, UM,
I really learned to read for enjoyment now. Um And
and hopefully that's something I could pass home to kids.
But it's it's it's amazing you point that out. My
son's eleven, little jock and doesn't love reading, and we

(19:19):
make him read a half hour a day and try
and tell him how how important it is. Um. And
right now he's reading Maze Runner, which he actually likes,
but still like every day it's a fight. Was there
a book that you read that you remember like this
got me to where I actually kind of liked reading. Um.
I don't think I ever got to that point in childhood.

(19:40):
You know, I remember reading a lot of the Goose
Bump series and stuff like that. Um, but you know,
mostly it's come later in life, after college. And you know,
I read a lot in college for school, and I
think that kind of started that process. And um, you know,
as I got more free time, as an adult. You know,
I started to do it more for in Jordan Clary

(20:01):
Peter Joyance on The Doug Oatlop Show on Fox Sports Trail. Okay,
so now how does your book club work now with
students not on campus. Well, so previously we you know,
we would go to UM High School and meet in
the classroom, bring food and UM, the kids will get
the books and we will meet every couple of weeks
and you know, discuss the books and just kind of

(20:21):
let the conversation flows as will UM. And then now
we're going to be doing that. I'm kind of through
a virtual platform UM and open it up to all
Arizona High School students UM to sign up and hopefully,
you know, we'll be able to reach more kids UM,
have a wide arrange of diversity, UM, and you know,
really get some good conversation from and allow these kids

(20:44):
to get more reading material. UM. Get some free books
to them, UM, and hopefully they'll enjoy it and and
get something from it. Clar Peter Joyance and The Doug
Otlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. UM, I of the
things I wouldn't want to do stop your off in practice.
Obviously you haven't had to have O t A S
and practice looks like it's a long long time off.

(21:06):
But man, you go out and add new Hopkins to
go along with Kyler, Murray and all the other weapons. Uh,
does feel like the offense those guys are pretty set
in terms of having some dudes right. Yeah, I'm super
excited about it. I couldn't believe it when I read it,
UM that we were able to get Hopkins. Uh, definitely
a top receiver in the league. It's gonna make everything,

(21:26):
um that much easier for Kyler. He's going to develop
even more in the second year. So I'm looking forward
to it. I'm expecting a very exciting show, UM, a
lot of points being scored. But you know, right now
everything is just on paper, so there's still a lot
of work between now and you know now and where
we need to go UM, and hopefully, you know, we'll
get back to work soon and be able to start

(21:48):
that process. No, no, I listen, I and I understand
that it's a long way off, but I mean everybody wasn't,
at least nationally, we were all impressed by Kyler. For you,
as a defensive line and when when was there a
point in which you're like Okay, this kid can do
it well, you know, just on day one, you know,
stepping into the starting offense and just showing the control

(22:10):
of it and not being intimidated by that situation. You know,
I was a believer right off the bat. Obviously, you know,
what he put together as a college career was you know,
as impressive as anybody, So you have to respect that.
But coming in and bringing that confidence and that swag
to living obviously it's a live arm and super athletic
and you know, um one of my favorite players to watch.

(22:33):
So I'm super excited about his potential um and I
think you know, the sky was the limit for him.
You guys gave up the most yards of any team
defensively per game in the NFL. Yarde doesn't matter that much, right,
It's about you gotta get turnovers, but you're lower to
middle of the pack. It's about you know, red zone percentage,
about third down percentage. But still part of it signifies

(22:54):
when you run the air raid offense, when you play
the way that that you guys are gonna play, the
deep sense is gonna have to change, have to evolve
to be on the field. How much of adjustment was
it for you because even in Arizona for these past
couple of years, you've been through so many different systems. Yeah, well,
I think you know, the failures of the defense last
year is totally you know, on the defense, and it

(23:16):
just wasn't good enough, you know, So, um, we got
to do a better job. I'm happy that the team
has addressed some of those knees and draft I'm happy
with Isaiah Simmons. I think that's a crazy still for
us that late in the draft. Um. You know, in
my opinion, just watching him play at Clemson, he's one
of the most talented players. Now I don't evaluate college talent,

(23:37):
but you know, when I watched Clemson play, that's who
I noticed. So I was extremely excited about that. Um,
And I'm just excited to get back to work and
thinking that, you know, we can write the ship and
if we can put the two sides together, I think
we're gonna be a very dangerous team. It's interesting because
you guys have like of the if you if you
were to say, okay, have you heard of or is

(23:58):
this guy you got chance Ler yourself, Patrick Peterson, Buddha
Baker is a super talented guy like you guys have
some dudes. What's it going to take to get this
group to come together? Well, I think, you know, our
problem has been inconsistency, and obviously at times we've played
at you know, really high levels. UM channel is led
the Lei and sacks. You know, he's probably been one

(24:21):
of the most productive pass rushers. You know, P two's
resume speaks for itself. UM. So, I think we've had
some success. He's just been inconsistency. And where there's inconsistency,
it's gonna be hard to string together win. So, um,
I think our main focus is just trying to build
a defense that's stronger all across the board. Um and
more consistent is the biggest thing. What is the uh,

(24:43):
what's the hobby that you've picked up during quarantine that
you hadn't done previously? Madden on Xbox? I mean, I'm
spending way too much time on video games. I didn't
play video games at all before this. Okay, So when
you play are you the Cardinals? Are you yourself? Did
you create another player to go along with the Corey
Peters like? I mean, like, look, I like to play
his defensive lineman and let the computer take care of

(25:05):
the rest. But but what's your setup? Like, I'm a
I'm a ground and pound this guy. So you know,
I played with the Vikings, some I played with the
forty nine and some I even played at the Titans song,
So you know, I like to run the ball. If
if they can't stop the run, I won't go a
pass at all. I like it. I like it. I'm
I'm with you. I think you're running the Especially we

(25:27):
play against kids like my Again, I play against my son.
He's like, man, you're it's boring. You keep running the football.
Is like, I'm running it right down the field is
what I'm doing. It seemed to work for the Niners
in the NFC Championship. It's gonna work for me in
in in Madden. Um are you doing? You're going for walks, Like,
how do you how are you able to stay in
physical condition? Well, the parks here in Arizona open, so

(25:51):
you know I go to the parks um in the
morning and just get my run on. And um, you know,
I lift in in the garage and just you know,
find creative way to make your work. You're pumping up
the music in the garage. You like firing, You're firing
it up, and it's super super loud to where the
neighbors like a ray. How loud is the music in
the garage? I clank it pretty loud, but the neighbors.

(26:13):
The neighbors don't bother me too much over here. Um,
nobody really says anything too Yeah, well, you're in Arizona.
Might be a lot of old people or very spread
out as well. Um, okay, so what's the playlist when
you're working out? I mean, are you going hardcore rap?
You're going metal? You know, like the old college weight room,
which what's what's Honestly, I just I just put my

(26:34):
phone on shuffle. Sometimes it's R and B, sometimes it's wrap.
The wrap up prefer is more like back backpack wrap,
what I would call backpack wrap. So j Cole can
be lamar that type of rap um and then I
like R and B two, So you know, I just
kind of let it ride and whatever comes comes, and
you know, just getting my workout on kind of hard
to hack squads to Kalid, though, I just gotta point

(26:55):
out right like you're a little kids, all right. Now
we're gonna back. Now we're gonna get big. Now we're
gonna get you gotta, you gotta once in a while.
You do have to skip every once in a while
and listen. This is a great program. Corey Peters playbook
of course, it's Peter's Education and Richmond program. It's a
virtual book club. You can find out about it online. Corey.

(27:16):
Continued health and success and thanks so much for joining us,
Corey Peters joining us in the Doug Gotlip Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. UM. I know when Ramos lifts weights,
he likes to lift to heavy heavy, heavy metal, heavy
heavy like death metal, hardcore, Doug, And that's what I

(27:36):
always say, hard hardcore music. When you when you get
your when you get your lift on, and right now
music is lifting wine with his fiancee and four walks
a day. When you get your lift on? What is
it to? Um? I mean it kind of changes sometimes
some rock and roll, maybe some Jimmy Hendrix or something
like that Hendricks left handing guitars, yes, maybe some some

(28:00):
more like modern E d M. You know, just it
all kind of changes going to modern E d M. Yeah,
I mean like more modern music. Is there another kind
of Is there an older E d M that I'm
not I'm kidding, Yes, there's there's uh E l O
is kind of old school E d M if you
will all right, all right, I didn't know if you
guys were Metallica going enter stanment D right. I feel

(28:26):
like college weight rooms now obviously it's changed. And I
went to school when when you go to school in Oklahoma,
you're you're not the South, you're not the Midwest, you're
not the West. You're just kind of there, right, But
a lot of college weight rooms that you know, you've
got the the assistant strength coaches usually kind of control
what's going on in there, and it tends to be

(28:47):
a lot of Metallica is big. There will be some
and look, I went to school during one of the
dark eras of rap, back when dudes were bowty, bowdy, rowdy, rowdy,
right megam's say Magham say no not no, not like
this is just terrible. Whereas I feel like rap for
the most part, is evolved. Although they all kind of
sound like the Drake stuff. I'm sounding like the Drake style.

(29:10):
I don't know, I do. I'm the same thing. I
like a shuffle. The problem with the shuffle is on
my phone, you'll get some country, you get some R
and B and you can't shuffle quick enough. You're like, man,
let's get to the next song. Alright, coming up next,
two franchise quarterbacks changing teams. Find out next. Fox Sports
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot

(29:31):
com and within the I Heart Radio app search f
s R to listen live Doug Olive show Fox Sports Radio.
I think, uh, Aaron Rodgers seems to not understand what
insurances for. We'll get to that. I mean, for a
guy who tries to tell you on on Farmers, he's
a farmer's guy, right, farmer's insurance, I'm not sure he

(29:52):
knows what what insurances for. I'll explain upcoming, and we
gotta get to this. Um. This is an interesting angle
a way of looking at it that the NFL is
at least proposing proposing that teams are rewarded with moving

(30:12):
up in draft position if they hire minority general managers
are head coaches in a way of trying to fix
uh the ratio, which is is not what the NFL
wants uh heading forward. I mean it's a it's a discussion.
We gotta have amazing, really interesting idea our thanks to

(30:36):
Corey Peters Joyce. Let's get to a game. This is
game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show. By the way,
the Angels are among the teams planning to announce furloughs,
likely in June. Red's announced they will have furloughs, joining
the Rays and Marlins who started this month. Teams pay

(30:57):
about four million to eight million per month and employe salaries. Right, So, like, look,
baseball players, I get it. You're like, dude, I want
to come back and play, but there's some risk there,
and would you prefer to be furloughed. It's almost as
if it's hard to pay people without games, and equally

(31:19):
hard to pay people without games that actually have fans there, right,
crazy concept. Now, now let's get to Dann Bayer, Dan, Doug,
the game today is psychic. Alright, psychic. I actually have
a question after one of my psychic questions that I'll
it'll it'll be it'll be in two questions, just to
prepare for that psychic after saying today, quote you can

(31:41):
only control what you can control, and quote will Aaron
Rodgers retire as a Green Bay Packer? It's gonna happen. Huh, Yes,
I mean, he said he was surprised, especially because he
wants to play, you know, into his forties. But like, look,
you haven't. Everybody has insurance, right You gain insurance your
car again, insurancey house, renters, insurance, maybe have dental. I
hopefully that's one of the things that when you're furloughed,

(32:03):
one of the things that you're able to your company
can still pay for your insurance even if they're not
paying your salary. That's what the packers bought. Packers bought
insurance in case blank. That's what people call insurance, right
in case something goes wrong, So you need insurance. That
completely makes sense to me. As you touched on earlier,
psychic Will Matthew Stafford and his career as a Lion

(32:24):
as the quarterback put his house up for sale yesterday. Um,
I do believe he continues to be a Lion. I
I think they'll turn somewhat of the corner. I don't
I'm not convinced that the Vikings are going to be
as good as they've been. I like their talent, but
I thought Stefanskis Stefanski did a really good job demanding

(32:45):
that they ran the football and another new offense, another
new style, another new weapon. I don't know. Um, and
then I look at the Bears and I'm not convinced
that the Bears turned the corner. I think the lines
are right there. As a playoff remember there's another playoff
team as well, I think the lines will be right there,
and I think he'll keep his job. I may put
this up on Twitter, but here's my question. This is

(33:08):
and and I'm sorry to put you on the spot,
but name you're top two or top three quarterback of
all time that played for only one team. Oh good,
good question. And it's kind of on the heels of this. Yeah,
Brady hasn't, Kurt Warner hasn't, Joe Antana hasn't. Um, yeah,

(33:29):
Brett Farve hasn't. Right, like you kind of go through.
You're like, okay, so John Elway, John number one, Um Marino,
Dan the Man. That's a great nickname. I am Dan.
Not if your name is Dan, because you hear it
all the time. But if everybody goes Dan the Man,

(33:50):
You're like, yeah, it's kind of a cool nickname. All Right,
they don't go Dan the Boy the Man. I'll take
Dan the Man overass. Yeah, what up? Did it's up, bro,
It's up, bro bro Um. Okay, So I got La,
I got Marino hold on thinking right, oh, this is

(34:15):
Eli Manning. Yeah, but big big Ben, big Ben Eli
parliament Um think it's very very unique. Yeah, that's how
I got psychic, Well, perfect transition. Will Mike Tomlin face
any discipline from the NFL for the envelope to James Harrison,

(34:36):
that's why you give cash, brother, They know chasing no
cash and they're like, the difference in that and the
Saints is the Saints were warned. Okay, it was a
program that they had going. They were warned, and they
go and then there's audio of them saying we're gonna
pay you, and then video and audio of them taking
out bred Farve and coming over the sidelines saying, give
me my money. Like, can we point out it's a

(34:58):
little bit different than bounty Gate? Yes, right, music. I
was talking to Dan about this during the break. I
don't know if it's just me. I've seen a lot
of shows and listen to several shows today. Am I
like the only one who has almost nothing to say
about a very old story that seems to have no
significance to anything. But because we're short on content. People

(35:21):
are like, should the Saints be pissed? Should the NFL
look into this. I'm just like, I don't really think
it matters at this point. It doesn't. But the only
reason is because the Saints, I mean, the Saints feel
like that's what set him back for three years right there.
The Saints are mad about everything that I ever understand.
I understand, I understand. I'm telling you, like, you're not

(35:43):
a fan of the Saints, you're not Sean Payne, and
you think you don't think like any reasonable person if
I was like, hey, stop doing that, and you're like,
a right, no problem, No, no, no, stop doing it.
It's gonna be punishment. Then you keep doing it. And
then we said, hey, you kept doing that thing I
told you to stop doing and it's gonna hurt other
pool You're like not and do it like yeah, we
actually have audio and video of you doing it, like

(36:05):
you're good, right, you know. I agree. I I think
it's like the cops saying, like, you know, like look, dude,
this is the street corner. I know you're just talking
whatever you know, and it was just selling Weed's no
big deal. You can buy down the street. Legal, Like,
just stop doing it, like, I no problem. Come back
a week later, you're still selling weed. Like, oh and
so we'd like we actually have you on videos. Well,

(36:27):
I know, I agree with you. I think the Saints
got punished justifiably sore. So that's why this whole thing
that they're trying to draw comparison. Plus it's like, what
are we doing here? Plus it was during and it
was during a time in which the league was dealing
with a concussion lawsuit. Al Right, Like this is why
everybody lacks context. You have to understand the time. It's

(36:48):
like the Scottie Pippen was underpaid thing. Dude, Michael Jordan
was underpaid all but the last two years of his career.
Magic Johnson's had a twenty year, twenty five million dollar deal. Okay,
that's just how the league worked back then. It was
cup is totally different, all right, Dan, get it, give
me a coup more? Okay, alright, psychic, what sport returning
will have the biggest impact NBA? All right, psychic because

(37:11):
of the MLB shutdown. Will the Astros ever feel the
wrath from fans for their sign stealing scandal? Yeah, they can't.
Boof they're not there, right, Yeah, that's what is going
to just blow over. There's nothing. No, they would not
feel the wrath that they probably should have. Finally, psychic,
what type of ratings will Fox get on Sunday as
a NASCAR returns to real racing at Darlington's I think
pretty good, pretty good, pretty pretty good, well above their

(37:34):
normal ratings for this time of year. This is game
time on the Duck Gotli Show. That does everybody understand
what I'm saying about the Saints. It's not that I'm
not like I I understand they think they were done wrong.
The it um what's that mom? Marvin Um, Harrison h

(37:56):
James Harrison. One can't prove it. There's no audio, no video.
They're gonna everybody's gonna deny it. Probably in cash. I'm
guessing it kind of happened. But like comparing the two
and saying that the same thing, they're not. You gotta
give and you're in my position, you gotta give context.
It was during a time which the NFL was being
sued for what they thought was gonna be two billion

(38:16):
dollars for the concussion lawsuit. All right, the Saints had
won a Super Bowl that Greg Williams, who was a
to everybody sort of guy. They were doing it, they
were told not to do it, and then they found
out they were doing it and waving it in their faces.
So it's not the same thing. Aaron Rodgers spoke, and

(38:37):
like when E. F. Hutton speaks, you listen, We'll tell
you what to hear next. Be sure to catch the
live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three
p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the I Heart Radio. Ah app What Off Tug Gottlip
Show Fox Sports Radio. One of the amazing things about

(38:58):
our country. And you know, one of the things we
do is like I'm gonna say something negative about our country.
I don't like it, gonna lose somewhere else. I've actually
lived other places. I like this one best. And I
was born here, I'm a citizen here and pay taxes here,
so I'm cool with staying it's not a perfect place.
It can be better. Um. And one of the things

(39:21):
we struggle with is having all of our citizens ensured right.
And I don't know if it's a right, but you
do have the right to medical care. And I don't
need to get into the politics of who said what,
Like this has been an issue for a long, long time,

(39:41):
long time. How to do it? It's not really my job.
I have my own theories. That's not what this is about.
I mean, like, look if you if I'm walking across
Suppolito Boulevard is right out this window, and I get
hit by a car and I don't have insurance, They're
still going to treat me. It's still gonna take me
the ambulance to the hospital, and the doctors are still

(40:03):
going to treat me. Right. The only difference when you
have insurances, the insurance is gonna pay for it, where
when you don't have insurance, now gets tricky. You will
get treated, somebody will pay for it, and if you
can't afford it, somebody else will, and somebody else is
show taxpayer. So it's the same thing, only with insurance.
He had preventative care and insurances in case something goes wrong. Right,

(40:28):
you ever heard that what it described as that's what
the packers bought with the draft. That's what the packers
bought with the draft. They're not replacing Aaron Rodgers, They're
buying insurance because Aaron Rodgers getting older. It thirty six
years old. He wasn't perfect last year. Some people thought

(40:50):
it was his new offense and his wide receivers. Some
people thought it was Aaron Rodgers. They about insurance. Today
was the first day we heard Aaron Rodgers speak after
the draft to the media. Did so in a conference call.
Here's what his reaction was to the Jordan love Peck.
I was wanting the draft, um and I think, you know,
the general re accident at first was surprised. I think

(41:11):
like many people. You know, obviously, I'm not going to
say that I was thrilled by by the pick necessarily,
but I understand the organization is thinking not only about
the present but about the future. Here's his thoughts in
the future, his future with the Packers. Well, I think
what it does is just reinforced kind of the the
the adage that you can only control what you can control,

(41:33):
and it's always been, you know, a mantra for myself.
I think any you know, any great athlete, there's things
are just out of our control. That obviously is something
it's very important to me. But I think it is
is definitely telling at this point that that is truly, uh,
something that's out of my control of what I can
control is how I play, and making that decision at

(41:56):
some point a very hard one. You know, if if
I were to retie are in the organization's timetable, then
it's an easy decision, but still comes a time where
I still feel like I can play at a high
level and and my body feels great. You know, then
there's you know other guys have have have gone on
and played elsewhere, honestly, like this is what we build
Aaron Rodgers as yesterday we talked about he and Richard Sherman.

(42:20):
Is he being delicate with his words? Yes? Is he
being honest? You better believe it. You better believe it.
But what he said he is wanted. Like he didn't
say I love the pick. He said like it wasn't.
I'm not gonna say it's thrilled. But you know, he
went on to say, you know, he had some good

(42:40):
conversations with Jordan, like he's not gonna be a jerk.
It's more about like really, and then he talked about
the decision. He's saying, I'd like to remain with the packers,
but under if their timeline is two or three years,
and then I'm out. What if I'm playing well, then
decision becomes hard. I think Jordan loves a aid insurance plan.

(43:01):
If Aaron Rodgers stinks or starts to age, um, you
have a younger guy who will learn under him, who
definitely has some talent but needs some time to refine.
If Aaron Rodgers is great and wants to keep playing
and they can extend his deal, the pick doesn't lose value.
You'll be able to get a first round pick for
a quarterback who's training and hasn't played and everybody thinks

(43:23):
has talent. Here's Aaron Rodgers on how much longer he
wants to play. The goal is obviously to play in
my forties. That hasn't teams. That's kind of what I've
been talking about for the last few years. But you know,
I know the key for that is is my physical body,
and that's what I focus on. That's really my motivations
to give myself physically the opportunity to play as long
as I want to play, and that's going to be

(43:44):
my continuing motivation. Yeah, Aaron Rodgers said he feels like
a kid throwing the football at the park and you
stay at home workouts. He indicated he has a small
group of so Cow based players he's worked with. I
don't know. I like, I understand that some of you
want to read his body language here that he's upset,

(44:04):
feel like he's a powder or whatever. But aren't the
things that he's saying much like that of Michael Jordan's right,
He's he's gotten. People have questioned or criticized him in
the past for criticizing others ability to know the playbook
and to bring the energy and intensity and practice. Hasn't

(44:26):
he He wants the franchise to be better. You know,
he knows he's had to rework his body. Here's a
guy who, like Michael Jordan's, came back early from injury
when he didn't have to remember broke his collar bone,
and he came back early at a rod installed in
the second because he broke his collar bone again. He's

(44:46):
played hurt, he's come back early. He's uh. You know,
we talked about with Brandon Weeden yesterday. By BIA estimation,
I would agree, the most talented player to ever play
the quarterback position. He's shown the ABIB to be clutch,
to play in bad weather in good weather, with the
running game without running game like he's great and he's
telling you that he's disappointed and telling you that he

(45:08):
wants to call his own shot of when he retires.
And they're like, maybe we don't. I don't know. I
just I find myself like him even more because, unlike
so many other guys, he's not telling us what we
want to hear. He's telling us what the truth is
and letting us figure it out. That was the disconnect

(45:29):
with Russell Wilson the Seahawks is that Russell Wilson always
says the right thing, always says the right thing, Like, look,
do you want to know why Colin Kaepernick wasn't a
Seahawk when he visited there? Russell Wilson killed that. Well,
know why Cam Newton won't be a backup for the Seahawks.
Russell Wilson ain't gonna have that. But he would never
say that publicly. That's just not who he is. It's
not how he wants him to be presented. He wants

(45:52):
you know, man, he's did the same thing. You mean
to tell me that all of these people came out
and defend of Eli Manning, the GM the coach get fired.
There's a really like a revolt because they're pulling Eli
Manning in a season which they weren't going to go
to the playoffs, They weren't going anywhere. Do you mean
to tell me that wasn't the behind the scenes work

(46:13):
of the Manning family. Of course it was, of course
it was, which I think makes makes Aaron Rodgers uh
look even better. Harder to take. Honesty is hard to take,
but it's something at the end of day year sitting
there going like that was an honest answer. That was
a real, real honest answer. It becomes super enduring coming

(46:40):
up next to college football world is divided, not just
the haves and the have nots. It's the play or
stay home. We'll get to that. I'm coming next. Be
sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific Doug Otlip Show,
Fox Sports Radio. We gotten to this weird place where like,

(47:04):
what was the old Abraham Lincoln? Do you know Abraham
Lincoln's house divided quote? Do you know that one um music?
Do you know that one Ramos? You guys? Are you
guys aware of it? You see if you can get
can you get it? Yeah? Well, I mean I looked
it up, oh man, a house divided against itself cannot

(47:29):
stand right, Abraham Lincoln. I don't know how Abraham Lincoln spoke,
but I would assume it was like a house divided
against itself. Cannot stand how that sounded? That sound presidential?
He actually was very softer that because if you watch
the movie Lincoln with Daniel Dave lewis, well so then

(47:51):
so Daniel Day Lewis portraying him two d years later
means that's how it was. There was some sort of
he was method acting at the time. True, that is true.
Dandylis is an awesome actor, but he's probably so annoying
to be around when he's filming because he's doing the
method acting thing. He could address me, addressed me as
President Lincoln. Sorry, Daniel Day can you pass me with

(48:13):
the assault that's President Lincoln to you? Yes? Yes, uh,
subject by a yes. I was gonna say. The reason
that they know is they found a voicemail that he
left in Hello Margaret, this is President Lincoln. You know Abraham. Yes. Uh,

(48:36):
when you get a moment, if you would call me
back on the telephone phone number is phone number is sixteen,
like me the president president back then by the way,
they had to actually tell people to leave a message.
Now that you don't. Now everybody knows what the tone means,
leave a message to the town. I've done this my

(48:58):
entire life. I know House I wanted to be. I
want this to be Abraham Lincoln's voice. House divided amongst
itself cannot stand Abraham Lincoln. That's basically what's happening with
college football. Basically. On one side, you have the SEC

(49:20):
is like, hey, just means more getting back in. Let's
go go win championship. On the other side, you got
the Pack twelve. You know, it's still trying to figure
out the cow state system, which is not a bunch
of you know, there's only three Division one schools San
Jose State, San Diego State, Fresno State that that had

(49:40):
Vision one football programs. But you know right now they're
not gonna have campus classes on campus with a couple
of exceptions, and we don't know what's gonna do with
football program is the Pack twelve. You know, Oregon schools
organs like, hey, we're not gonna have people in the
stands till October, Like, yeah, we play Ohio State on
the twelfth of September. What that's gonna kill the city

(50:02):
of Eugene, and we don't know what it looks like.
Then you have the super cautious, you have the lets go.
George is open, Florida is open, Oklahoma is coming open.
Speaking of Oklahoma, their head coach Lincoln Riley, was responding
to SEC presidents holding a vote to bring student athletes

(50:23):
back on a campus June first. Here's Lincoln Riley. I
think it would be completely irresponsible for us to bring
bring these guys in. You know, in my opinion, we
need to bring them in as late as we possibly
can before we play season. Every day early that we
bring them in is a day we could have gotten better.
It's a day we could have learned more about the virus.

(50:43):
It's a day PP maybe gets better. It's a day
closer to a vaccine. It's a day that are testing
equipment and testing capabilities get better. And it's just not
worth it. And uh so we got to be patient.
We get one shot at this and we've got to
do it right. I first thing, I understand, respect the perspective.

(51:06):
I want to bring this up, okay, and this is
this is a big thing for me. I've been paying attention,
and I'm just like you, I don't know what the
truth is. Right, He's not wrong in what he's saying. Well,
there's one part that's wrong. We're not going to have
a vaccine for college football season. Okay. If you want

(51:26):
to have college football and have fans there and have vaccine,
you're not gonna have a college football season this year.
We understand that. Are we all good on that? Right?
Is there a possibility you do the one in a
million thing? Sure, But for the most part, the vaccine
takes eighteen months on average, even with the best and

(51:47):
the brightest and people throwing money at it. You just
can't speed up science like this, all right, So you
gotta eliminate the idea of a vaccine, and a vaccine
was never a part of the discussion. We are moving
the goalposts because when we started this quarantine is like, hey,
we gotta flatten the curve. The question is did we

(52:07):
flattened the curve enough? Have we stayed out long enough
so that the curve is flattened? Obviously people are rambunctious,
ambitious to get back out there. I saw they opened
up casinos in uh in the state of Oklahoma, right,
what could possibly go wrong there? I mean, the videos amazing,

(52:29):
including one guy going like no, I don't even know
hand sanitizer, walking in like yes, that shouldn't really be
a choice here. But anyway, here's where I'm going to
offer a differing opinion while respecting his Okay, look, both
sides are okay. This is how democracy works. You say
your side, I say my side. We we go back

(52:52):
and forth. We could even argue we'd come to blows
if you want, or we can just kind of stand
up and say this way, and then a bunch of
people vote, and whoever has the most votes that's who wins. Right,
That's how That's how it's supposed to work. And if
you lose, you go like that sucks. I lost, all right.
We gotta get behind it and make contingency plans of
something else goes wrong. And if you win, you're not
supposed to be a jerk about going out one you're

(53:13):
a loser. Unfortunately, we've taken the other tact. So here's
here's my perspective on it. I don't think we just
get one shot at I think getting a back on
campus is not a good it's a great thing. It's
a great idea, and I'll tell you why, Because there

(53:34):
are going to be some people at universities who pop
up as positives. There are gonna be some people who
have already had it, who have antibodies. We're gonna learn
more about it. We're gonna learn more about how it
spreads throughout a team, how we can treat athletes if
we get like because if you first of all, there's
they're just as likely to get sick when they're at
home as they are when they're on campus. We do

(53:57):
realize that, right Like, if a kid grows up in
the state of Oklahoma, Let's say he lives in Mustang.
There are some great names of towns in Oklahoma. No water,
No water Oklahoma. Anyway, say kid grows up in Mustang, Oklahoma,
or in Yukon, Oklahoma. Yukon is the home of Garth
Brooks where he grew up. Right now, Oklahoma is relatively open.

(54:21):
What do you think he has a greater chance of
getting better medical care, Okay, more testing under the watchful
eyes supervision of trained professionals at the University of Oklahoma.
Or in Mustang, Oklahoma, where if he's gonna work out,
it's gonna be at the high school gym if they
can sneak in there, or in somebody's in somebody's garage.

(54:43):
If he's gonna go run, it's gonna be on the field.
If he's gonna go eat, it's not gonna be in
the protective environment of a university. Um, what's it called
when they have a not just dining hall, when they
have a what's what's the meal called? God? Why am I?
Why am I blanking on it? A training table? Or
is it going down to Sonic or going to Brahms

(55:03):
and grabbing a burger on takeout where you can't control
the cook, the person who brings it out, your mom,
your dad, your brother, You go grab the bag. Germs
are still transmitted like you're not you're not. The guys
aren't in a bubble at home, and then you put
them on campus, you're like, Okay, you're free with all
these germs. It's not how it actually works. Both environments

(55:25):
are not super sealed off. And oh yeah, by the way,
if they do get sick, we can learn about Hey,
if we can we isolate a guy, can we treat
him as it spread the entire team? Do we build
her immunity through the team. If we wait until the
last possible second, go like all right, August one, and
then one kid pops out sick, we're all gonna freak

(55:45):
out when when the truth is and this is the
really really hard one. Hey, it's the really really hard one.
The truth is that most people's immune system not compromised
immune system. But you wouldn't be a college athlete if

(56:06):
you had a compromised immune system. Right, you had an
autoimmune disease, You're probably not a college football player. Probably not.
But most people's immune system develops antibodies and eventually beats
whatever viruses go through our body. And and the more
we try and make everybody into Bubba Boy, the worst
it actually becomes when we put them back into the

(56:28):
real world. I respect Lincoln Riley. He is trying to
protect him. He's trying to say what's smart and balanced
and have patience and take a breath and not rush
kids back to campus. There is another side, which is
it's not that Clay Travis all this is blown out
of proportion. No, that's what I'm saying. It's bad. It
spreads way worse than the police. Don't compare it to

(56:48):
the flu, because what people don't realize is that a
whole number of thirty four thousand people died from the
flu last year. They're using they're using a metric to
find that number. Okay, they they're they're they're using math
to find that number. That is not an exact count.
But even with that exact count, that's over an entire year.
Despite the fact we've had social distancing for two months,

(57:11):
We've had over eighty thou people in our country die
from this new virus. So it spreads way more. It's
way more dangerous than than people are letting on. I
understand respectful of it, but if we're if we're going
to phase two and eventually to phase three, you really
need to tell me you're not actually safer with the

(57:31):
student athletes in the protective environment of a college campus
as opposed to at home. I totally disagree. Fox Sports
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app search f
s R to listen live. I gotta talk with John
Mihokoff about this proposal. Okay, uh buy? Or do you

(57:54):
have a second? I mean, I'm listening for people to understand.
Dan does our show, has his own show on Sundays.
He also does local updates as well. So he's like,
does you have a second Okay middle coffee with us.
I'm here, Okay, I want people to understand. Okay, go
ahead with with this proposal about minority candidates for for
coaching front office, quarterbacks coach. Go ahead, lad out for

(58:14):
us again. So the team, if you would hire a
minority head coach, you would move up six spots into
this proposal in the third round from where your pick is.
If you hire a minority general manager, you would move
up ten spots. If you hired both, you could actually
move up sixteen spots in the NFL draft from your

(58:36):
original spot in the third round. The NFL also saying
with the quarterbacks coach, because they feel that there hasn't
been attention given to minorities in that specific position, that
you would get a compensatory fourth round pick if you
hired a person of color as your quarterbacks coach. Thanks
so much, Dan, John Middle Coff. You're you're a former
scout and the nash Football League. Your thoughts on that,

(58:59):
I mean, I heard when was it? It was? It
was Wednesday, you were on the rants. It was excellent. Actually,
I was listening to about Lamar Jackson and LeBatard. I
was in the car in the afternoon and I was
listening on the radio, and you hit it right on
the head. I I worked in the NFL for three years.
I worked in college football at Fresnon State for two.
I I honestly, I swear to god, I never heard

(59:21):
race come up one time. Black coaches, white coaches, player
It never came up one time. And I think coaches,
now you could argue they hire. One argument that I
think is fair is sometimes guys hire their friends. People
are comfortable with. That is not arguable. But if you
told any coach from Andy Reid to Lincoln Riley to whoever,

(59:44):
this guy is your best option for position whatever, you
can win with this guy, they don't even care. They
do not mind. Now my issue with that is, so
let's say I I'm the forty Niners and we have
a bad year, right, you know, we win six games
and I'm in the Spa wherever in the third round,
and just because you hired a guy of color, you

(01:00:04):
get to jump me in the round. You know. That's now,
when I first saw the proposal before I heard the
details right there, it didn't say the rounds because right
away I thought, well, it's gonna sound a lot better.
No chance is the first round? Clearly not not even
the second round. It's the third round. Is it worth
it for these teams even to argue over this? But

(01:00:25):
is this like a solution? Is this gonna change that much?
I I would doubt it. But back to your point,
And I know people love the race element of players
and even coaches, Like did Hugh Jackson get fired because
he was a black guy? Just like did Jim tom Sewell,
like no one cares, Nobody gives a crap. What if

(01:00:49):
you win? You win? It's pretty black and white. When's
the last time a coach got fired and we thought,
you know what, that guy got a raw deal. I
just rarely, if anything, it happens with like guys that
like hard bought when he was like forced out. It
never happens with losers because we watch you and you suck.
Right now, again, I get the hiring practices, They want
the forced guys in the spots, but I don't know.

(01:01:14):
I don't pretend to have a solution on this, but
I don't think this is going to change that much.
I don't either, I don't need to. Like you go through,
there's been a lot of actually there's a lot of
African American coaches have been fired. Um there there there
was the one year it was like a vance Joseph
Hugh Jacks. Joseph was a bad coach. I know he

(01:01:36):
was bad. Um and then who is that who what's
his name? Got one year in Arizona? Um with with
wils Well. But I'd say I would say hired out
of nowhere Steve Kine met the guy on the beach,
like no one was gonna hire the guys the head
coach their own fault. Yes, Um, look I would I
would point out that that before the Jets, Um, what's

(01:01:59):
the same? Who's down with with Tampa? Todd? Right? Like
I don't think Todd Bowles got a great guy. I
don't think it was a great gig with the Jets.
And you know they tried to tank, they switched GMS.
But he didn't lose his job because he was African American.
He lost his job because they he was hired by
a different GM and they didn't win games. I think

(01:02:19):
I think one thing that the league is wants to
change is the perception like black coaches aren't smart enough schemers.
The thing with Todd Bowles, for example, he's wildly known
as like one of the best defensive minds in football's
he he took a bad job. That that's really that's
when he comes out. Wasn't part of the main problem.

(01:02:41):
GM was bad. And you know what, I was around
Todd for a year and Tilly there. He just might
not be a head coach. Not every guy is the
lead dog. Some people are number two. And you know
the great thing about the the NFL. Do you know
what the number two in the NFL makes a defensive coordinator.
The average salary for a defensive coordinator in the league
is over seven figures. Majority of him may close to two.
The majority of offensive coordinators, I think there were two guys. I'dlie.

(01:03:05):
Every defensive coordinator in two thousand nineteen made over a million.
There were two offensive coordinators. And remember a lot of
head coaches now called plays, so that means a lot
offensive coordinators aren't even play callers. There are only two
of them that made under a million. We act like
these number two jobs are digging ditches, Like you become
a millionaire, you signed three four guaranteed they're great jobs,

(01:03:25):
They're fantastic. Well, look, there's a bunch of different layers
to this. Okay, First, like some of this is the
Eric B. Enemy thing where people like I don't get it.
Eric B. Enemy is offensive coordinator of the Kansa City Chiefs.
You know, they win the Super Bowl. He can't get
a job like Okay, but have you asked other general
managers why they didn't hire him? Right? And and they've like,

(01:03:49):
he didn't get offered the job with Colorado where he
played and he was a star player where he had
been previously, you know, and he's he's not seen at
this point as a guy who people want to be
their head coach like I. I don't know, I like I.
Here's the here's the big thing is, look if those jobs,
all of these jobs, which if you open it up

(01:04:09):
to anybody, Okay, what happens is we say, well half
the league, or more than half the league is African American.
Wy aren't the coaching staff? Why aren't the front offices?
Because it doesn't take the same athletic acumen to be
anybody A man, a woman can can should be able
to be in a front office of the nation football legue.
I would prefer somebody with a football background of some level,

(01:04:29):
having coached or played or studied their entire life, man
or woman otherwise. But if you open up to the
entire population, well, awll of a sudden, the ratio has
changed dramatically. And that's I think one of the reasons
that ratio has changed dramatically, especially for the front office. Well,
like an example on Eric the Enemy is that he's
had kind of this knock on him over the years.
You know, he's been tough to deal with, a little
rough around the edge. I'll give you a couple examples

(01:04:52):
of a couple of old, krusty white guys in Bruce
Arians and Mike Zimmer. It took them till I think
late fifties, and maybe Arias was sick to be by
the time he got a head job. Because when you
have that knock, you're not Sometimes there's another grade. Sometimes
it helps, you know, and you could say I'm not
like this, but to be a kiss. Ask some of

(01:05:12):
these young guys and what they, you know, look like
Sean McVeigh. I get it. But if those guys suck,
like if Zach Taylor is terrible. For another year, he
will get fired. You know, everyone just gets fired if
you if you win, you don't, and if you lose,
you get fired. Whether you're black, white, or yellow, it
does not matter what. No one even thinks about that. No,
it's a it's a it's a difficult one. Um. I

(01:05:34):
even take Flora Brian Flores, who's African Americans in Miami.
I had a GM tell me the year before he
got the job. He's like, you know who's gonna be
a good head coach? Is Flores. And I said this
on air, but he's like a year away, right, And
I was like, well, what's that mean. He's like, it's
no different than a backup quarterback or than you know,
a guy in college. It's just it's gonna take another

(01:05:55):
year of kind of seasoning and and you can and
you can see it, and you can you can see it.
So um and Brian Flores is And I don't think
Brian Flores got the job because he's black. He got
the job because he did a hell of a job
turning around that Patriots defense and now he's doing a
really good job trying to turn around the Dolphins. I

(01:06:15):
do think that creating relationships between front office people and
and and and African American coaches former players as well.
The other part is like do former do former players
want to come back and be low level coaches and
work their way up the food chain. That's a big thing,
you know that. I I say more and more, the

(01:06:36):
more money they make, the less likely that's gonna happen.
A lot of those guys that like, dude, I played
football my whole life. I'm done, I'm I'm just I'm done,
I'm cooked, I don't want to do it. And the
guys that become coaches are the guys that aren't good
enough to make it, but still really really love the game.
What one issue I have, and I just think it
makes no sense, is when a team like the Raiders

(01:06:57):
several years ago locked in on John Gruden or the
Panthers like this year with Matt Rule. You know years ago,
it happened when I was in Philly with Chip Kelly.
Why do you even have to pretend, like in a
in a business, if you lock in on one individual one,
it's clear. Why why do you have to pretend that
I have it? But but again, my my logic to

(01:07:19):
it is I actually think that's important. I think the
Roney rule works because again it does. It's not you
don't necessarily get that job, but you bring the internet.
You get to meet people when the guy gets to
go through. If you've ever gone through an interview process,
which I have for being a coach, you learn more
from that process than you do from anything else. You're like, man,
I wish you would have done this, which would have
done that. Additionally, you create potentially a positive relationship where

(01:07:41):
you're sitting there going and all these guys talk, right,
all these gms talk their friends with other people in league, like, hey,
you know I talked to this Flora's cat is really good. Man.
You should take a look at him for your job.
Like I'm you know, I don't know. We like we
we just didn't fit well we needed but he was
really he impressed the hell out of me. That's I Actually,
I think the Reney world totally works. I think people
I think people don't under they they underestimate how important

(01:08:04):
those interviews actually are. See I I would agree if
and I don't know, like Al Davis was king of this,
he interviewed like fifteen people just stealing information. Do you
think most teams when they interview a Rooney Rule candidate
that they know they're not going to hire, take that
interview seriously. I do I do. I think if they do,
then that it's definitely work. I think, well, look, I

(01:08:24):
think the good gms take everything seriously. The good gms
don't give a crap about where a guy played or
what the color of skin is. And I think a
lot of these were We're we are getting rid of
the dumb you know, the dumb g GM smart does
in fact win And the ones I've talked to, you know,
they sit there and they want to evaluate and take
everything because you never know, when you think you know

(01:08:45):
the answer, you actually don't. You're kind of you're kind
of guessing. Um, I want to ask you really quickly
about Aaron Rodgers, John, do we have This is what
Aaron Rodgers had. I thought this was to me, it
was really really honest what he said. This is what
Aaron Rodgers said about the Jordan Love draft pick. I
was watching the draft, um, and I think, you know,
the general reaction that first was was surprised. I think,
like many people. You know, obviously, I'm not going to

(01:09:06):
say that I was thrilled by by the pick necessarily,
but I understand the organization is thinking not only about
the present but about the future. What do you think, Yeah,
I think he's real. They're being pretty candid, and I
think it was most of our reactions it was it
was a wow moment um. I would imagine he'd been told,

(01:09:28):
you know, like either guy and he's paid like it,
So it had to be a little shocking to him
because the contract doesn't allow them to get rid of them.
And I saw some other quotes on Twitter that were
basically like, you know, I had hoped to kind of
finish my career here. Now it's just like I have
to come to griffs with there are other things on
the table, right, I mean, this is this might not

(01:09:49):
be finite, Like I'm for sure this guy is gonna
replace me. Who knows, he might suck, but no, that
it's an option in the guys that I technically work
for and play for. His mind, you know, I think
they're just it had to be a little humbling, you know,
for a guy that you know doesn't always act that humbled, right, Yeah,
But I I thought, like, look, here's what I think
is endearing about it. I thought he was professional. I

(01:10:10):
thought he's professional, but I also thought he sounded honest.
Whereas you know, there's some talk about Russell Wilson and
the trade maybe to Cleveland a couple of years ago,
and Ciarro wanting out or whatever. Look, I think Russell
Wilson's crazy talents. I think he's awesome, but I don't
think that people in the league believe he is who
he purports himself to be. And as flawed as as

(01:10:32):
you may think of Aaron Rodgers and how he handles things,
he is authentic in as much as you can be
in his position. Yeah, there there were never any stories
about teammates on defense yelling Aaron Rodgers you suck at practice, right, Yes,
and because you couldn't, so there was a resentment there,
and there's there's also never been a story about the

(01:10:55):
Packers never thought about trading Aaron Rodgers for the number
one overall pick, like that never cross their mind several
years ago in the peak of his powers. Also, you
could argue that tells you a little something about like
Pete and John. Definitely definitely last Thing, Last Dance, last
two episodes coming up. Are you more excited about the
Flu game? Or the final shot. I'm more excited about

(01:11:17):
that Indiana Pacers series. I remember vividly coming back from
Thedega Bay listening to it. Remember they were down right
in the second half in that game, in Game seven,
and it kind of felt like they were gonna lose.
I remember vividly listening to it on the radio, and
my buddy Noah's in his dad's car. We were driving
back and it was like, are they gonna lose in
the Eastern Conference Finals. I have a lot of respect

(01:11:40):
for I was a big King's fan and John sock
and used to kick our butt uh in, like when
the Kings are trying to get over the hump. But
those Indiana Pacers teams, man, I had a lot of
respect for them. They were like the I felt like
they were the better version of like the Nicks, a
little more complete because they had that They had the
brute strank, but they also could really shoot and Reggie
was just so I'm excited to see that the Pacer

(01:12:02):
wrangle because the Jazz like, I never ever felt like
the Bulls are gonna lose the Jazz plus no, but
nobody like that unless you're a jazz fan. Nobody liked
the jazz. They just were like, do you think Karl
Malone an all time overrated guy? Are just properly kind
of rated? I think he's I mean like, look, he's
the second all time leading scorer in NBA history. If
you use that stat, I think he's overrated. How about

(01:12:22):
John Starr? How about Love? I love John? I love
John Stockton because one thing people forget is how many
big shots that he made. I feel like, I feel
like Stockton gets a little underrated because like of the
with the Isaiah Thomas should have been on the team,
no one thing Stockton shouldn't been on the team. He
was unquestionably the best point guard in the league at

(01:12:42):
that time. We gotta run mental great stuff, dude, Thanks
for joining us. Be sure to catch the live edition
of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m.
Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I
Heart Radio WAPP every day this time the Dutta Show
Fox Sports Trader, and we play for you a portion
of it of the show on Fox Sports Trading or
Fox Sports when we call it. This was a great interview.

(01:13:07):
Clayton Kershaw was holding his kid and then teaching Dan
Patrick about how to throw a curveball. H He also
joined DP and the Dan Netts talking about Blake Stiles
coming it was probably a little bold and what he said,
but you know, I think what where he's coming from.
We've already made a pay concession. You know, we're gonna
get paid pro rated based on the season, so we

(01:13:28):
play eighty one games where they get half our pay.
We agreed to that already, and I know guys kind
of felt like that was what we decided, you know,
as a union. Obviously, with no fans changes things, I
guess for some owners, but we're still playing the same game.
All I can say about everything is if it deems
medically that we're able to play and we can't figure
out the business side of it between the two sides,

(01:13:48):
it's not gonna look good on anybody. So if we
do figure out medically, I'm pretty optimistic that we can play.
I am too, And I would only say this about
either Blake's now really more Clayton Kershaw's comments. If you think,
or if anybody thinks that the bottom line is anywhere
near the same, if there is no git, there are

(01:14:10):
no fans, you're crazy, right, do you have any idea
how expensive it is not just to normally feel the
professional baseball team and you're probably gonna have to have
some minor league clubs that that that play at your
spring training site because they're not gonna have games. But
you have to have a depth at your roster. But
you're you're not gonna have fans, and then you're gonna

(01:14:32):
have to have all this medical staff and all this testing,
like that's not just free. So yeah, you agreed to
appropriated salary based upon the idea that eventually you would
have fans there. They're talking about not having fans there,
so that changes things. That changes, that changes the math completely.
We already be to a pay cut. Sorry, you might

(01:14:53):
have to take another one, right like with with our
the way it works here, I don't know how to
make everybody is different. Like executives have decided to take
a pay cut, um, I believe through the end of
the year. But some people are asked to just hey, listen,
just for the summer, this is what we're gonna do,
and then we're gonna reassess and see how bad it is.
Then al right, what are you gonna do? I know

(01:15:15):
you already put me on furlough for two weeks in
the summer. You can't put me on furlough for the
fall because because because I said so, I already agreed
to it for a low before, like and we still
haven't recovered, we're not making money. You kind of got
you know, you kind of get this, just like uh,
Glenn Garry Glen Ross right, third prices you fired hit

(01:15:37):
the brick spow. So I I like, I thought Clayton
Curshaw is kind of a measured response. I think he's
very understanding. But I also think that they're looking at
this thing and they're going like, it's gonna cost how much? Right?
Have you ever gotten one of those situations like, no problem,
I got the budget. When you said this is like
building a house. I've never built the house, but everybody

(01:15:58):
tells me costs over represent costs over runs. Yeah, sure,
we got this much money for a house. Cool. We
get the loan for the house, we got the construction
loan whatever. Like That's at some point they go like, well,
we went over. The women went over. Well, we can
even stop now or keep going. You have to keep going.
This is the opposite. We can either stop now or

(01:16:19):
start playing we start playing, we have no fans. We
have to have all this medical testing, We have to
go to a different facility just to make sure. We
have to constantly test you. We have to hire all
these people to make sure everything's clean, and then we
can't have any fans here, you know. And oh, by
the way, we're furlowing people who normally do the day

(01:16:39):
to day operations. They're getting no money. Would you prefer that?
Of course? And they're not pulling in the nine figure contract.
Their paychecks actually go to their mortgages, to their car payments.
So I just you have to be reasonable and understand
that these are unforeseen times. And I agree with what
Clayton so I said, we can't figure out because the

(01:17:01):
business side, like what are we It's gonna look terrible.
That doesn't mean you give into all of their demands,
but you gotta be reasonable with your approach, Okay. Aaron
Rodgers talked about his future, talked about Jordan's love, talked
about his feelings with the club's first round draft pick,
and he spoke from a position of what I think

(01:17:22):
is honesty. Do you believe him, do you like him?
And will it work? Find out Next to the Doug
Godlip Show. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio in the I Heart Radio
Whap What Tug Godlip Show Fox Sports Radio. Aaron Egler

(01:17:46):
is gonna join us in twenty five minutes. He of
cheese Head DV Fame. Yeah, my my Bear's accent kind
of sounds like a packer's accent. At the same time,
what do you think of my bear Sacks sent there?
John Ramos is not bad there, right, It's actually pretty good. Yeah,
you know the and then you know, all you gotta

(01:18:07):
do is you gotta change it up there. If you
want to make it more of like a Wisconsin kind
of accent there, you gotta gotta make it, you know,
change it there. And you talk about Aaron Rodgers and
the Packers in their drafting of Jordan's Love. Yeah, that's
what you gotta do. That's what you gotta do. Um,

(01:18:27):
we'll get to that in a second. I we are
all fired up about the Last Last Dance documentary. That
is Last Dance Episode ten, Episode nine to me is
more important in terms of legend building myth building. Nine

(01:18:49):
the one. I'll tell you why, up coming in in
ten minutes. Let me get to this. Aaron Rodgers. Aaron
Rodgers was supposedly ticked off, upset mad. He's mad though,
according to a spokesperson Brett Farve, uh he doesn't have

(01:19:10):
to be a mentor to Jordan's love, and he's there
to win games and the Packers want him to end
his career elsewhere. These are all people speaking on Aaron Rodgers. Behalf.
We think, we don't know, you know what we do know.
We heard from Aaron Rodgers today. Here's what he said
about the Jordan Luppick. I was watching the draft, um,
and I think, you know, generally accident. At first, was

(01:19:30):
was surprised. I think like many people. You know. Obviously,
I'm not going to say that I was thrilled by
by the pick necessarily, but I understand the organization is
thinking not only about the president but about the future. Yeah, um,
about the president, but also about the future. His here
his thoughts on the future with the Packers. Well, I
think what it does is just reinforced kind of the

(01:19:52):
the the adage that you can only control what you
can control, and it's always been you know, a mantra
for myself, Like any you know, any great athlete, there's
things that are just out of our control. That obviously
is this something is very important to me. But I
think it is is definitely telling at this point that
that is truly, uh, something that's out of my control

(01:20:14):
of what I can't control is how I play, and
making that decision at some point a very hard one.
You know, if if I were to retire on the
organization's timetable, then it's an easy decision. But if there
comes a time where I still feel like I can
play at a high level and and my body feels great,
you know, then there's you know, other guys have have
have gone on and played elsewhere. Al Right, So what

(01:20:35):
his read is the organization's timetable is two or three years, right,
you know, three years max? That would be he'd be
thirty eight going on thirty nine in the off season.
Am I wrong? That's a completely reasonable way for an
organization to look at it, isn't it. And it's a
very reasonable way for Aaron Rodgers to look at it.

(01:20:57):
I want to make that decision in two or three
years a very difficult one. The only way to do
that play great football, not poud about it. Just go
out and play, do my job, stay healthy, and then
you do make it a hard decision. But I think
the Packers bought themselves insurance in case he's bad before

(01:21:19):
that ninth birthday. And that insurance is it's it's like
a you know, not all insurance. Do you actually pay
and not get any of the money back? Do you
guys know that there's a kind of insurance that I
like to call rich people insurance where it's a life
insurance policy but it becomes an investment vehicle. Do you

(01:21:43):
guys know about that? Any of this? Right? Because none
of us make that much money. This is a cowherd
level type stuff, right where you make so much money
that you pay a huge sum in a premium, but
after five years you can actually get collect on that
interest and after a certain amoun of time you can
get all that money back. What the Packers are doing okay,

(01:22:05):
Because the Packers in the next three years, short term,
the next two years, excuse me, short term, they have insurance.
If Aaron Rodgers goes down, Jordan's love is not gonna
be ready, but at least he'll have learned he can
sling the football. So and then at the end of
three years, now of a sudden you can decide whether
or not you want to cash in that insurance and
retire Aaron Rodgers or cashing the value of the insurance

(01:22:27):
policy in Jordan's Love by moving him to another team.
Jordan's Love came out of schol after his junior year.
He's very much unrefined. But like I look at it
and I go in three years. In three years, do
you think Jordan's loves value goes down or up? Of

(01:22:48):
course they'll go up unless he can't play dead in
a Cowboy movie, in a preseason game where he literally
can't throw a football. Anyone who's reasonable will think, well,
he's training her own Rogers's training. Matt la Fleur, he's
worked with the Green Bay Packers. Probably pretty good, and
most guys look really good in preseason games. Most guys

(01:23:10):
it's it's it's one of those living insurance policies that's
an investment vehicle more so than your your classic um,
your classic old school. Hey, you're paying and if you
don't die during this you know term life insurance during
the next a right term life, well then you just

(01:23:36):
lose that money. That's not what they're doing. And I
thought that Aaron Rodders, this is one of the most
endearing parts about him, was he told zero lies. He
wasn't fluff hey, but he wasn't a jerk. He was
very measured and reasonable. He doesn't he knows he can't
be nor does he want to be traded. It's just hey,

(01:23:58):
I was surprised. Probably could have gotten wide receiver instead
they got insurance. Their timeline for me is two or
three years. I want to make it really hard for
them to show me the door. That's what we're all
supposed to do at work, all right, When when my
contract is up, I want to make it really really
hard for them to go. You know, we might be overplaced,

(01:24:22):
godly with a cheaper guy, younger guy, or a different guy. Right,
that's how you're supposed to view it. You keep working,
you keep getting motivated, because there's always somebody who wants
to take your job, and we'll do it for less.
I'm not sure what world you live in, but the
world of business is cutthroat, and the second that you

(01:24:46):
cannot achieve the level of of success that you're paid for,
you become replaceable, Especially in this day and age, and
when you're at the price point there in Roger's la right,
it's not like you're like now Avery Rodgers slipping a
little bit. But at least he's only making ten fifteen
million dollars, Like, Nope, not close making in the thirties.

(01:25:09):
You're gonna make top dollar. Gotta play top dollar. You
get plenty of time, you got plenty of plenty of
of rope. He's not close to ready, and over the
next two or three years they'll evaluate. He wants to
make that decision tougher. I respect Aaron Rodgers, not just
for being a professional, which I knew he would be,
And he talked about talking to Jordan's love. He thinks

(01:25:30):
they had similar upbringings into the football world, similar rise
to prominence, but also for being honest. He didn't sit
there and go like, I saw that pick and I
love that pick. I love this, I love he didn't
do Jon Gruden. I love that guy. I want to
coach that guy. I want to work with that guy.
As all he said, He's like, I was surprised, but
that's the business. Totally reasonable, all right, coming up next, um,

(01:25:57):
I think we're gonna be hyper focused on Jordan's last
game in Utah, in his last game in a Bulls uniform.
But to me, Sunday is going to be about the
Flu Game. I'll explain next. Be sure to catch the
live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three
p m. Easter noon Pacific, broadcasting live from the studios

(01:26:19):
of Fox Sports Radio. Here's Doug Godlieb Doug Olive Show,
Fox Sports Radio. So Sunday is going to be the
culmination of The Last Dance, the ten part documentary series
focused on the last year of Michael Jordan's with the

(01:26:40):
Chicago Bulls, was culminated in his sixth NBA title by
my estimation, and I think most people like that's when
his NBA career ended. I know he came back and
played parts of two seasons with the Washington Wizards, but
he was in ownership, he was in the front office,
and it wasn't like a real legit comeback the way

(01:27:03):
it was with the Bulls. But whatever, if you want
to say his career kept going, you wouldn't technically be wrong. Um,
all of that said, all of that said, uh, I
think the Flu Game is bigger in terms of myth
building yes, Jordan's hit his last shot, and his last

(01:27:28):
shot was part of a personal six point binge that
brought the Bulls behind from behind to win on the
road against the Utah Jazz. He hit the game winning
shot over Brian Russell, held the follow through, and put
the stake in the hearts of all Utah Jazz fans.
That did happen, did happen, and they did come from

(01:27:53):
behind to beat the Indiana Pacers in Game seven in
the Eastern Conference Finals. That that will be focused on,
but Game five of the nineties seven Finals, Jordan's looked ill,
acted ill. We were told he was sick. He was ill,

(01:28:15):
He had an ice pack on his neck. He just
looked physically worn down, beaten. He looks sick. It was relatable,
it was human. It was man. That dude looks bad,
and he gave him thirty eight. Gave him thirty eight.
I don't know like of the game of the moments

(01:28:35):
that I remember from Michael Jordan's career. Of course, I
remember hitting the glass game winning shot, holding the following through.
It was tight. Of course. I remember with North Carolina
hitting the shot to give him the lead before Freddy
Brown turned the ball over at the other end for Georgeown.
We mistaken late through it to I think James Worthy,

(01:28:57):
of course. I remember Michael Jordan's six three in Boston Garden.
I remember the spin reverse flip against the the New
York Knicks, A great move. Remember the losses to the Pistons,
the Pistons not shaking hands. I remember him passing to
Paxson and beating the Lakers. Remember the up and under
in Game two against the Lakers, probably the most famous
move he made an NBA Finals, even though it really

(01:29:19):
doesn't make sense. Why didn't he just dunked the ball
and nobody jumped? Right? Remember all those things. The Flu Game,
to me, was more about who he was as a player,
indomitable will, indomitable will on the road, more difficult in altitude,

(01:29:43):
more difficult, sick, more difficult, and yet he found a way, right,
he found a way. I don't know BI or T two.
What's what's the game that you believe is most synonymous
with Michael Jordan's the game? What's the Flu game? Of?

(01:30:05):
Of just of a whole game? Right? Mhm? Because there's
the shot again? No, but I mean, but but but
the game? Okay, so the game is the one. Yeah,
the Flu game is the is the one that's that's
most memorable. Um yeah, I mean I think that there
are a bunch of other shots, but and the and
the sixty three point game against the Celtics. Um I'm

(01:30:27):
looking at m um like I just what answer do
you want? You know, whatever? Whatever, He's honest to you. Like, again,
that's Dan. That's the big thing. Like like there there's
different things. People remember different things about different players, right,
Like when I think of like your old Seahawks, Okay,

(01:30:49):
my greatest memory of those old Seahawks teams really was
the Bo Jackson game, which is right? Was was that's
because Bo Jackson ran out you know, I ran out
the out the stadium, ninety one yard touchdown on like
a pitch to the left right then he ran over
Brian Bosworth. But your members are completely different. I remember,
you know, my memories of different games are different. I'm
just trying to think, what when you if I said

(01:31:11):
Michael Jordan's you would say some people think dunk contest,
you know, and you're like, which dunk contest? Like, well,
it's probably duncts in Chicago Stadium, you know, a duel
with with a duel with Dominick Wilkins. So what so
it is the Flu game, the one the one game?
Like this is I guess this is part of the
issue of of looking at Do I remember anything from

(01:31:32):
the Calves game outside of the shot against Elo? Uh? No?
How much of the finals Game six against the Jazz
do I remember? No? But the Flu game as a whole.
Uh that would be it. I remember because it did
like the Portland Trailblazers, the game one of the two
NBA Finals, Yeah, I mean like that that sticks with me.

(01:31:54):
But um, you know, for as you said, for obvious
reasons of what's different, weren't the three point lines you
know that were they in? Then? Was that the second
time round when they were the three point lines? And
I think they three point lines were closer than during
the Portland show Blazed series. It wasn't mentioned, but that
was that was part of the story. Was that's when
the three point shot became a bigger shot in the NBA.
Robert or made Robert Roy's careers. He started shooting threes.

(01:32:18):
But I remember that the three point line was moved
in for those couple of years. But yes, and if
you if you watched um, the last episode when they
focused on that or what it was three or four
episodes brow they kind of dared him to shoot. He
had not had the reputation as three point shooter and
he's just like whack wack wackwack whack, and he made
six of them. Obviously. That was a memorable game. Yeah,

(01:32:38):
I remember the Knicks fifty five when he came back
in the garden, like his second game back, that was crazy,
Like how about the dude goes from looking terrible against
the Pacers the second game back he dropped double nickel
in the garden like what. Fox Sports Radio has the
best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within

(01:33:00):
the I Heart Radio app search f s R to
listen live. Okay, I want to play for you this
that Lincoln Riley sound and and give you my honest
thoughts on it and by I'd love your opinion as
well YouTube music. I know buyer uh for those of
you who if you're driving around this weekend, I was
just keep it here to Fox Sports Radio. Dan show
is really good. Our weekend shows are outstanding. Just an
awesome kind of potpourri of different opinions, UM, and this

(01:33:24):
is gonna be something everybody's talking about, right. They're opening
up facilities in the NBA. UM. Now, there's all kinds
of different things that you have, Like even for us,
did you guys see the the forehead the thermometer outside
that you have to kind of go through. And there's
different testing you've got to go through to get into
the building. So they're different protocol for different buildings and whatever.

(01:33:45):
They're talking about bringing the SEC bringing players back on
campus June one. Here's head coach of Oklahoma Lincoln Riley.
I think it would be completely irresponsible for us to
bring bring these guys in. You know, in my opinion,
we need to bring them in as late as we
possibly can and before we play season. Every day early
that we bring them in is a day we could

(01:34:06):
have gotten better. It's a day we could have learned
more about the virus. It's a day PP maybe gets better.
It's a day closer to vaccine. It's a day that
are testing equipment and testing capabilities get better. And it's
just not worth it. And uh so we gotta be patient.
We get one shot at this and we've got to
do it right. I completely understand what Lincoln Riley is saying. Okay,

(01:34:30):
in that listen, what's the rush? Why do we have
to get kids back? We got to figure out how
to how to how to handle this virus before we
decide to go hell on wheels, full head of steam
towards you know, next season. There's a bunch of issues

(01:34:51):
though with it. And here's here in lies the rub
I am not to the side where I think open
up the floodgates and let everybody out, and we got
hurt community and whatever. But the I if you're waiting
for a vaccine, you're not going to have a college
football season. You're waiting for a vaccine, you're not going
to have a college football season. It was never about

(01:35:12):
a vaccine. It was about it was about the curve,
flattening the curve. And the only question is how we
flattened enough to where we can slowly go back to
our regular lives or do we have to maintain full
social distancing or some sort of hybrid, which is what
we're doing in the phase two in most in many states.
The other part two it is like, look, players aren't

(01:35:35):
in a bubble at home. College athletes are not in
a they're not sitting at home in a bubble so
that there are no germs and no possibility of being infected,
whereas if they get to Oklahoma's campus, they can be
in at least some form of a bubble. And oh yeah,
by the way, we can get a better sense of Hey,

(01:35:55):
if one kid gets sick, can we quarantine him? If
they all get sick, to they get her immunity, can
we treat it? Do they already have and do they
have antibodies? Have some of them already had it? That
age of of of of person generally not really at risk.
They're just not and they're definitely not anymore at risk

(01:36:15):
on a college campus than the word at home. Now,
the problem is liability. I understand, like nobody wants to
get sued. Or if a kid gets sick and then
God forbid, something terrible happens to him or happens to
his career, then he sues Oklahoma. I understand that liability
is the reason that cal State universities are going online
for the fall. It's the reason that everybody else is
being super cautious because no one who gets are ass sued.

(01:36:38):
He can't be insured and you gotta pay through the nose.
I get it, But the reality of it is, we're
not really waiting on a vaccine. The reality of it
is of it is they're no less safe on campus
than they are at home because they're likely not maintaining
social distancing at home. There's not the medical care at home,

(01:36:58):
there's not the testing at home him, and they're not
in a bubble at home. So I get what he's
saying and the idea of it only getting one shot,
but I actually think that's the wrong way of looking
at it. If we wait until say August, what a
kid gets sick, everybody will freak out. You send everybody
at home. You don't wanna do that, Bring him and

(01:37:20):
bring him to campus. Guy gets sick, you treat him,
gets back out there. All right, let's let's let's change
the topic. Here's what Aaron Rodgers said on a conference
call earlier today in regards to the Jordan Love draft pick.
I was watching the draft, um and I think, you know,
generally accident at first, was was surprised. I think like

(01:37:41):
many people. You know. Obviously I'm not gonna say that
I was thrilled by by the pick necessarily, but I
understand the organization is thinking not only about the president,
but about the future. Uh. This is Aaron Eggler who
joins us now on the Doug Otlip Show on Fox
Sports Radio. He's the president, owner everything of Cheesehead TV.

(01:38:02):
He's the head cheesehead for all the Cheesehead nation out there.
What's your reaction to how Aaron Rodgers handled the conference
call today. I think he was on point and it
really wasn't surprising in any way, shape or form. Obviously,
the one sentence that everyone has glommed onto already online
is the what the sound by you just played about

(01:38:22):
not being thrilled? Well, of course he's not thrilled. He
was on the radio that morning talking about hopefully getting
another weapon. You know, I understand, of course he's disappointed.
But I thought, for the most part, overall in that call,
he was on point. He was professional, He was complimentary
not only of Jordan's love but all of his teammates.
I think this idea that Aaron Rodger was going to

(01:38:45):
come out and be all kumbaya. He's too much of
a competitor. He knows why this choice was made, he
knows what this means for his future, So of course
he got his You know, he wasn't thrilled. I totally
understand that. But as he also said in Nightcliff there
looking out for the long term viability of the franchise,
that is literally the general manager's job. And look, if

(01:39:06):
there's anybody who knows what Jordan's love is about to
go through, it's Aaron Rodgers. And I think Aaron is
going to be a much better mentor to Jordan's than
Brett was. There. Did he do a good enough job
putting out the virtual fire and firestone that had had
been caused by the pick? I mean, yeah, as much
as he can. I mean, the problem with the fact

(01:39:27):
that we're all quarantined now is that the content generators
have to uh continually feed the beast, so to speak.
And now this will have another couple of days and
or weeks of of life because now he's spoken, whereas
if he had come out a week or two ago,
we'd probably be done with this subject. But it is
something that's going to be picked over and talked about

(01:39:49):
ad nauseum for the next probably a couple of years,
until they do try to make the transition. But I
thought he, you know, like I said, he did about
as well as could be done in that situation. He
was an consummate professional and that's exactly what you would
expect from Aaron Rodgers. I agree, And I even liked
the wording uh where he said, like, look, basically, the

(01:40:09):
organization has a timeline. I'd like to make that that
that decision difficult, right, And the timeline is probably three
years right after definitely after two seasons, likely more likely
after three seasons, they'll have to make that call. And
I feel like, I like, and I don't know if
you have life insurance, like there's term life and I
don't know if it's called it's called like you know
what the whole life policy is, right where at some

(01:40:31):
point it's an investment vehicle more so than just life insurance.
That's what the Packers did here because if Aaron, if
Aaron Rodgers is great for the next two or three years,
or in the third year he's awesome, they can move
that that Jordan Love pick at any time and likely
get another first round pick and return. Well. And that's
the thing too, right, I mean it as much as

(01:40:51):
he would never admit it. And he was asked about
external motivations and chips on your shoulder, et cetera. This
does put the ball on his court, ball out, so
to speak. And if he does to make it a
difficult a difficult decision. But if he is fair to Midland,
and you know, for whatever reason, even last year he

(01:41:12):
had great numbers, there's nobody would deny that. But for him,
for what we're used to, for his the level of
play we've seen from him in the past, if he
doesn't even begin to approach that, it becomes a little
bit easier for the organization to at least publicly sell
the idea of all right, it's been two years, Jordan's ready,
it's time to make the move. Whereas if, like you say,

(01:41:34):
if he's if he's leading them to deep playoff runs,
super Bowls and putting up insane numbers winning m vps,
then it makes it a totally different conversation. And that's
something obviously it's a great problem to have, uh, But
that it does, like I said, put the onus on
Rogers a little bit. But also a big part of

(01:41:54):
this equation comes down to how Jordan's love develops and
is he as good as he ceiling as high as
the Packers seem to think it is yeah, I I totally, um,
I totally agree with you. Aaron Nagler joining us on
the Doug Gotlief Show on Fox Sports Radio. Hey, didn't
they signed Devin Funches? They did, Indeed, they're big offseason.

(01:42:16):
I just I guess, I guess I don't. It's like, look,
he's a he's a big body. Uh, he's been well
traveled now going from Carolina to the Colts, now now
over over to to the to the Packers. I guess
my thing is like they got zero credit for signing
Devin Funches, Like, well, you need to add you know,
they have to talented young wide receivers. They got a
top ten wide receiver in the game, and they added

(01:42:38):
a big bodied wide receiver. Like, I'm not really I
don't totally understand. I kind of don't really understand why
everybody's so freaking out that they didn't pick a wide
receiver late in the first round. Do you understand, because
that's the draft industrial complex been banging the drum for
three months about how they have to draft a wide receiver,
and then when they don't do what the draft industrial

(01:42:58):
complex has dictated to be done, then the draft industrial
complex freaks out and fans freak out because that's all
they've been doing for three months is I can't wait
to see which wide receiver we get, and then when
they don't get a wide receiver, fans get upset. But
I'm with you. I think they've got all the talent
they need to make another deep run, especially when you
look at Jay Sternberger, Josiah Deguara, their third round pick.

(01:43:21):
Those interchangeable parts of tight end, especially Sternberger. People are
sleeping on that kid. I'm telling you he is going
to be a weapon, and I think, uh, the Packers
know what they have. Everyone outside the building is going
to be aware sooner rather than later. Yeah, I'm with
you and motivated. Aaron Rodgers is the best kind. It
doesn't hurt that best kind of very rouge. What what

(01:43:42):
are we supposed to make of his relationship with Farv?
Like they weren't boys than they made up? Now Farv
is doing the interview circuit but acting as if he's
the spokesman for Aaron Rodgers. It is he, I mean
in the sense that think they obviously spoke. Brett said

(01:44:03):
as much. Um after the pick. You know, I would
never presume to think that Aaron is sending Brett out
there to send a message. I think Brett, in his
recent kind of whirlwind press tour, so to speak, I
think he's very much projecting what he went through to
what Aaron Rodgers is about to go through. Um. You know,
I did ask Aaron about a documentary that he is,

(01:44:25):
I guess making still making when he went down to
Brett's place in Mississippi a couple of summers ago. Brett
mentioned that he brought up camera crew in tow and Uh,
he was a little coy with his answer. But there's
something brewing there now. I don't know what it's about.
I don't know what the focus is. It would be
very interesting to find out that the whole subject of
the documentary is the passing of a torch, not only

(01:44:45):
from Brett to Aaron, but now from Aaron to Jordan's.
But we'll just have to wait and see on that.
But you know, Brett and Aaron are close, There's no
doubt about it. And it has been amazing to watch
If if for, if you were anywhere near Falsis five
Lombardi back from two thous an eight to see where
this has gone. The journey of those two have gone
through is pretty amazing. Um I I what I don't

(01:45:07):
understand is I don't understand why winning and mentoring has
to be exclusive, Like, oh, they certainly yeah, they certainly
don't write. But what what what what we're Farve made
it seem like it did, and fans definitely think it
it does, right, you know how I was supposed to
have mentor's here to win games, Like, he doesn't have
to hold his hand, but he can be way better

(01:45:29):
to him than Farve was to him. I mean, And
that's the thing I think, because of that experience, Aaron
will be very not going to say, hyper sensitive, but
he is going to be very aware of tune to
what his public anything, whether it's something a quote, whether
how he interacts with Jordan on the practice field that
you know, all those practices it's in training camp are

(01:45:49):
all open to the public. Um I think he'll be
very invested in making sure that, however the relationship gets
off or you know, develops, that he's giving Jordan's the
support that maybe he didn't feel when he was tutoring
under Brett. But hey, you know, to Brett's point back
in the day, he is correct. The contract does not

(01:46:11):
state it's my job to help out the guy who's
here to take my job. You know I can't. I
can't hate too much on that, but I can't. I
can't either. But in the day I get it. You know, yes,
But if we remember back in fairness, it's also the
contract doesn't state you can think about retiring, then not retire,
think about retiring, not retire, then retire, and go like, hey, wait,

(01:46:31):
I don't want to retire right like? I love bred Far,
no doubt, I love bred Far. But it was it
was a year leader remember who you all remember the dance?
No doubt about. Uh were you one of the cheeseheads
in the bars in Wisconsin yesterday? I was not well.
I live in New York City. I know. I don't
know if I know if you got it. I know

(01:46:52):
if you get that got a dodge when this thing
went down? No, no, I want I watched from afar. Man. Look,
if you tell people in Wisconsin the bars open, they're
going to go to the bar, it doesn't matter what's
go pandemic, forget it. Did you tell me the bar
is open? People in Wisconsin, they're going to the bar.
Do you like the man Manitoba minute? Guy mate the

(01:47:15):
Charlie Barren. Charlie is a friend. Love love Charlie. Charlie.
Charlie is the best. He is awesome. I think I
gotta have him on. He is all. He is hilarious.
I watched all his stuff on Facebook. Charlie barrens, by
the ways, comedian. He does the Man Man Talk minute,
and it is. If you haven't seen it, you will
you will pee your pants? Uh laughing? All right, listen,
be safe. I know New York City is starting to

(01:47:37):
get get better, get things opened up. Thanks so much
for joining us. Absolutely, thank That's the president of Cheesehead Nation,
Aaron Negler from Cheesehead TV. Charlie barrens, you guys ever
seen that stuff? Oh my gosh, is it funny? Oh?
Really really funny. Aaron Negler and all of our guests
today joined us some Discover Card guest hotline gets credit

(01:47:59):
scorecards day and if you're not Discovered customer, include your
Phyco credit scord and checking your scorecard won't hurt your credit.
Learn more discover dot com slash credit scorecard limitations apply.
There could be some huge changes coming to the NFL.
I'll share them with your next be sure to catch
the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at
three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio

(01:48:20):
and the I Heart Radio a app. Well, let's get
to the press. The press, Dann by what he got?
Do find it interesting? And how we when you were
talking earlier about what's the one game you remember of
Michael Jordan, and not to make this a Jordan and
Lebron game, but when I mentioned, you know, I think

(01:48:41):
the sixty three point game of Jordan is a game
that a lot of people remember. And it's just all right.
That was Game two of the first round series lost
to the Boston Celtics with Lebron's like case, I look
back at, you know, you look back at the championships,
you look back at, you know, the twenty six finals,
but it's a Game five against the Pistons in the

(01:49:02):
oh seven Eastern Conference finals of you know when when
he goes nuts. So these just the point being of
these guys who we think are the greatest of all
times or goats or whatever, sometimes when you look at
their games, it's games that didn't have anything to do
with them. Winning a title is the stuff that you remember.
So anyway, just was was thinking about it, thinking about

(01:49:23):
this as well. The NFL network reporting that owners will
vote on a proposal that would award teams with higher
draft picks if they hire minorities in the positions of
head coach and general manager. Yeah, I just this is
one of those um where both sides seem to be
upset at the idea of it, right, Like Rob Parker said,
it was was he said, embarrassing. Um some along those lines,

(01:49:47):
I've heard other others come out like, you know, like
if you're African American, like, is this how you want
to get a job, if you're you know, if you're
if you think the NFL's current system is good, you're like, wait,
what does that say? You know, what does that say
to non minority candidates who have earned the right to
get those jobs? Like, like the NFL has has quietly

(01:50:08):
they have an intern minority internship program. It's really important
to get more black former players, coaches or whatever into
front offices in the football offices and allow them to
climb that ladder. I think the quarterback thing will slowly
solve itself, because look, we we went through a time,

(01:50:30):
you know, and before that where most quarterbacks. Most NFL
quarterbacks were white. Now the league's almost it's almost half.
It's not with the starting quarterbacks. It's like thirteen last year,
so almost half. I think slowly it's it's the former
But the problem is the former players. They make so
much money, they don't want to do it. They don't
want to they don't want to climb the ladder, if

(01:50:52):
you will. The don't want to do internship or a
low level position they wanted. So it's obviously a problem
where the NFL wouldn't be trying to fix the problem.
I just don't know if a league mandate like this
helps make it any better. It probably does, uh and
if both sides don't like it or probably go through now.

(01:51:12):
I follow up on a story that evolved over the
last eight hours. In speaking with the Miami Herald and
Fox Sports sixty in Miami, the attorney for Seahawks corner
Quentin Dunbar tells Andy Slater that his clients has letters
from alleged victims that say Dunbar was not involved in
Wednesday's alleged armed robbery at a party in Miramar, Florida.

(01:51:33):
The arrest warrant still is out for Dunbar as police
want him to turn himself in. Same with DeAndre Baker
the New York Giants who was facing the armed robbery
charges as well. But maybe a different twist to the
story of what went down Wednesday night. Yeah, I think
there's there's clearly more to it. Um, don't get me wrong.
It sounds like they're dumbasses, one more than the other.

(01:51:55):
You know, Brandishing a firearm is stupid, and taking other
people's stuff is really really stupid, even if turns out
that it was some of it was their stuff, right
the old O J. Simpson who went to jail for
stealing his own stuff back, Um, you know, like let
the authorities get involved, that's what it is. But I
would guess that Dunbar ends up because he wasn't seen
as having a weapon, and now you have people writing letters.

(01:52:19):
I would guess that this will be one which maybe
he skates on some coronavirus stuff, if you will. The
Mid American Conferences notified schools that football teams won't be
allowed to stay in hotels prior to home games. You
see that a lot with teams getting together prior to
their games. They won't be allowing that also travel rosters
for the MAC has have been trimmed from seventy six

(01:52:41):
to seventy. Uh no, bigger waste of money than staying
in a hotel for a home game. Right, stupid, but
it's done. I know everybody does it. I remember doing
in college, going this is the dumbest, and we sued
to sneak out and gonna go stay at our own
place for like, this is dumb. Basically better than my
own back. Yeah, well to be able to the ability
to check on guys whatever, But like, look, if you

(01:53:03):
have guys that you gotta check on, they shouldn't be
on your team. Bowling Green has eliminated their baseball program
as the school tries to trim two million dollars off
of their athletic budget. This is going to save them
about five hundred thousand dollars. Players will remain on scholarship
at the school. If they choose to stay at b
G s U would not transferred to another school. That's
a bummer. That's a bummer. Probably better off stand even

(01:53:25):
with no baseball, right, probably end up being more beneficial,
But I stink. This is the new economy is gonna
look really different on college campuses The Athletic reports the
NBA is set to lose nine hundred million dollars in
TV money if they don't have the NBA playoffs. They
have they will have the NBA Playoffs this summer. That's
when you get the nine or million, like it's close
to a billion. That's a lot of money. Lakers getting

(01:53:46):
the okay from l A County to open up their
practice facilities starting tomorrow. Who's the guy who called that one?
By the way, who's the guy who said May fifteen,
and they'll get an essential business pass? That would be.
That would be because what happens is everybody's like, oh
there again, Like, oh listen, if you actually read the
l A Times article, there's still slow roll in the
open and oh yeah, by the way, you can get

(01:54:06):
kind of an essential business you know, passport if you will.
So yeah, whoo. Sports is u c l A is
focused on a hiring Boston College A d Martin Jarman
to be the Bruins athletic director to replace that Dan Guerrero.
It's an odd one, the one, right, Yeah, well I'm
not too fresh on a d S so I can't

(01:54:27):
but but well, I mean just the question is you're
gonna come. By the way, Martin Jarmon's really well regarded
thirty nine year old who he's been at Ohio State
and in Michigan State. Also African American, Like I just
the the only question becomes, um and I think he
played whoop to. I think he played at U n

(01:54:49):
C Wilmington's, might have played for Brad Brown l at
UNC Wilmington's. Like this is a real up and coming dude. Um.
The only thing is just no l A ties, no
U C l A ties at all all? How does
how does that work out? We've got NASCAR racing this
weekend from Darlington also getting going this weekend, Doug. The
German Bundesliga resumes play Saturday, no fans, Players and coaches

(01:55:13):
also having to deal with new rules. Players will not
be allowed to hug each other, shake hands, or even
spit on the pitch. Coaches will be wearing masks, They
can only remove them when shouting instructions to players and
have to be a reasonable distance away. More than twenty
tests will be conducted on players, coaches, and team officials
in an effort to complete the season, and the AP

(01:55:34):
reports they're not even sure if they're gonna be able
to complete it, but they're gonna start to try on Saturday.
Well that's the press, get out there and pressed that
the press. I don't know if you got to this story. Okay,
but a handwriting expert, handwriting expert, UH believes that documents

(01:55:54):
that were allegedly signed by Carol Baskin's late husband were traced.
Someone traced it from their marital records. Don Lewis, of course,
UH died or he's disappeared. No one's ever found him.
And now remember his will was changed, and some signatures
are apparently traced. It's not a difficult call. Florida based

(01:56:17):
analyst Thomas Vastrick wrote, not a difficult call, Carol Baskin. UH.
This weekend you'll watch the Last Last Dances. Rusty LaRue
will join us to tell us what it was really like.
That's upcoming Monday on The Doug Otlip Show, Fox Sports
Radio
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Doug Gottlieb

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