July 31, 2023 • 41 mins
On the Monday edition of The Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Much has been said on both sides of the Jim Irsay-Jonathan Taylor story in Indianapolis. Doug sides with the Colts' owner as he agrees that the running back market is what it is and is simple economics.
Doug and Dan Beyer discuss what his happening with the Pac-12 as the sports conference seems to be seeing it's final days.
Doug explains why he is on Aaron Rodgers side in the story involving Sean Payton. NFL Writer for The Athletic Mike Sando joins Doug to talk about his recent quarterback tiers article that is out right now.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:25):
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(00:45):
Klingle's been kind enough as their marketing manager to have
us on. Thanks so much, Wahoo Nation. We do. We'll
cover college football, especially what appears to be we're on
the brink of expansion of the Big twelve and maybe
the Big Ten, and we'll see what happens with the
ACC So it definitely affects everybody in Charlottesville as well
(01:07):
as the rest of the world of sports. We have
football to get to. We'll get there in one second.
Aaron Rodgers versus Sean Payton will get to. Mike Sando's
gonna join us. He's an NFL writer for the Athletic.
He's got his quarterback tiers. I'll be interested to see
where his quarterback tiers take us. And then of course
we got a little basketball in the second hour of
the show as Rick Buker will join us and we'll
(01:30):
talk that conference expansion, conference contraction, maybe conference extinction as well.
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should be, all right. You know there's a lot of
(02:17):
back and forth at times between agents, players and teams. Hey,
but this Jonathan Taylor versus Jim Ersay with this thing
took on a whole another level of nastiness over the weekend.
Here's Jim Ersay, owner the Colts over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
If I die tonight and Jonathan Taylor's the league, no
one's gonna miss us. The league goes on. I mean,
you know, we know that the National Football rolls on.
It doesn't matter, you know who who comes and who goes.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So obviously that didn't That didn't sit well. The agent
had some comments for the Colts. There's apparently a trade
demand that was made. There's this story out there that
Jonathan Taylor checked in to Colts camp and said he
had a bad back and hurt us back in his
own private workouts. Taylor went on to social media last
(03:11):
night and said never said anything about the back, but
he shut down. He's in a negotiation. Remember he's a
second round draft pick, not a first round pick. So
there's no fifth year option. Excuse me, but there is.
There is still the franchise tag two years over for
the Colts in the back of their pocket. And the
reports are that in the contract extension talks he wants
(03:32):
sixteen million a year. And of course we're coming off
of last the last two weeks talking about these running
backs over and over and over and over again. And
what Jim Ersay said probably wasn't the smartest thing. You know,
probably wasn't the smartest thing. But if you didn't know
(03:53):
anything about Jim Ersay, he's never really said the smartest thing.
ESPN Stephen Holder actually actually asked if there was a
trade request made. He asked Jonathan Taylor, and Taylor said no.
(04:14):
But apparently after team meeting, Jonathan Taylor's trade request was
met with this from Jim Mersey. We're not trading Jonathan.
End of discussion. Not now, Not in October. Taylor was
eligible for an extension this summer after his third season
in the NFL, but the Colts, like just about every
other team in the NFL has done with star running backs,
they declined to knock him down. Now, this is an article,
(04:35):
by the way, I'm reading from Jack Bear, that's not true.
That's actually not true at all. There have been extensions
after the third year. You want to know which ones
they are? Ezekiel Elliott remember that one? Oh, I got
another one for you, Todd Gurley, how'd that work out?
(04:56):
And of course Christian McCaffrey, who Christian McCaffrey is a
great pla right great player. But there's a couple things
about Christian McCaffrey that we have to be honest and
point out. As he was traded last year to the
San Francisco forty nine ers. Christian McCaffrey, it's the highest
paid running back in the NFL. His first three years
under his rookie deal, he played every game, all sixteen.
(05:22):
A year he signs a new deal, and granted he
was a first round pick, so he had They had
him under contract from up to seven years if they
didn't want to rework his deal, right, that's the five
years of the contract, two years of franchise tag. He
plays three games, he plays seven games, and then last year,
although he played all seventeen games for two different teams
(05:43):
and had an outstanding season, the Panthers actually got better
running the football when he was traded away at a
fraction of the cost. So this is one of those
deals where we have people agents speaking about things you don't.
You don't need to You don't need to make comments
(06:05):
about about what you know, what's smart, what's not smart.
You don't need to make comments about a contract extension.
All you need to say is we want to be
a cult. We want to be a cult for the
rest of our lives. We just want, you know, what
the what the market will bear, what the market will bear.
And this ever present, ever present sends that if a
(06:28):
guy doesn't get what he wants, he can be traded.
Two things. One, this is the first thing, is somebody
else has to be willing to pay him at that market.
Maybe there is, because he's only played three years in
the league. Last year was his first year being injured again,
long term guarantee running back already injured, isn't that likely
to help happen more. But secondly, and most importantly, even
if there is another team who wants to pay him
(06:50):
sixteen million a year and was willing to trade, the
Colts don't have to because we drafted a guy in
the second round and he's achieved. He's better than what
that valuation should have been. And we have them under
contract for this year, year four, at potentially two more
years with no negotiation. We don't have to trade you.
(07:13):
And you can say, well, this is just a football thing.
That's not true. I don't know if you know this
about media contracts, and again some of them are different,
but buyer you and Jay stut you guys know this
right in media contracts, when they come to an end,
you're technically not allowed to negotiate until a specific window
(07:36):
and even after if you agree to terms on a
deal with somebody else. Like when I was at ESPN
and I six months out they told me they would
renew me. I got an offer shortly thereafter. That was
a low ball offer, and then it's not until I
think three months out where you could go and actually
shop for your new offer. Then I got a new offer.
(07:57):
Then it was kind of the back and forth competitive thing.
But after I had agreed to terms to move to CBS,
ESPN had rite a first refusal, they could have said like, nah,
we're good, we want we want you at that same
we'll pay you the exact same amount, and you're under
there's nothing you can do. Kind of their own franchise tag.
(08:17):
So every business based upon the contract, based upon the
contract that you signed, has different implications in this one.
For the Colts, they don't have to do anything. You
can say, hey, they're bad guys for not paying him,
and he'll lowball him if it's a franchise tag next year,
in a franchise tag the year before, but they don't
(08:38):
have to do any other the goodness of their heart,
businesses don't have to do that. Would you like your
running back to be motivated to succeed in part of it? Sure,
But he's also a free agent next year potentially if
they don't do the franchise tag, so he's not going
to play hard. You don't really have any leverage other
than he won't show up. And the only way to
(09:01):
strike down that leverage is your owner saying like, nah,
it doesn't matter if he holds out the whole time.
So I'm not saying I'm on team Taylor, I'm on
team Reality. Team reality is Hey, look if I got
him for one more year next year, I'm gonna pay
him ten. You know, I'll go to twelve or thirteen
(09:23):
for two years, maybe something partially guaranteed in year three.
Now that's sort of top of the market. He'll still
be very young. He's twenty four years old, so we're
talking next year's twenty five, then twenty six, twenty seven.
Then I'm probably wanting to be out of that business.
But I can also see a world which you're like, yeah,
you're really good. But the problem with running backs is
(09:47):
like the show Heyo Tani problem, and you're like, wait, what,
think about this for a second show Heyo tan He's
likely to sign a deal somewhere from five to seven
hundred million dollars. The one issue, the one thing that
should hold you back as a franchise is yes, he
does both. But if you lose him, you lose both.
(10:11):
You lose a starting top of you know, top of
the rotation pitcher, and you lose the best hitter in
your lineup. Now, it's less likely to happen in baseball
and less likely to happen to show hey, because he's
going to DH most of the time anyway, and you
know he's already had Tommy John most guys. Once you're
past that, you're past that. What's the same thing with
(10:32):
running backs? We always look at, well, he can run
and he can catch it out of the backfield. Okay,
but if you go down now, it's going to take
two guys, probably maybe three. But those three guys you
can get at a minimum rate, at a fraction of
what it costs. We are all replaceable, all of us.
And it usually comes out of one big budget. And
(10:53):
how do you fit into that budget? And the last
thing I would say is this, You can piss off
a lot lot of people. You can piss off a
lot of people, but man like, ticking off your owner
is like, that's just not a way in which you
(11:15):
are going to ultimately get your way in any business,
in any business, going directly at the owner and the
owner getting upset is not generally a way in which
anyone sees any success. You have to speak in bigger terms.
(11:37):
You have to talk about the process. You have to
talk about the running market, running back market. Whatever you do,
do not make it personal to the owner, because the
owner owns and I don't think or say would do this.
But you know, there's the old Al Davis story. He
killed Marcus Allen's career. There was supposedly different reasons, but
it's the owner got upset, and the owner made the
(11:58):
edict don't blame my arcus Allen. If the owner doesn't
want to pay you, he ain't gonna pay you anything
more than he's got to pay you. And the second
you make it personal, you don't know how people are
going to react. Like Jerry Jones with the Ezekielly thing.
You know, he got involved and he said zeke wu.
But Jerry Jones has got this. He's just a bleeding
(12:21):
heart for so many these players. And maybe the Zach
Martin thing is the first time he's going to stand
up for himself. Jim Mersey is not Jerry Jones. That's
an understatement.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
This is the best of the Don dot Leap Show
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Speaker 1 (12:42):
What Up with You? Doug gott Leeb Show, Fox Sports
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It's the way that tire buying should be. We have
I think as good an hour for you as you're
(13:02):
going to hear anywhere in radio with the press. We'll
get to all the big stories of the day. And
I'm sure Dan Beyer, who works really hard at putting
that together. Plus you have updates. We'll get there's some
injuries in the NFL. There's some signings in the NFL.
There's some trade deadline stuff in baseball. Got all that
plus got that's baseball, Rick Buker this hour. So we
have football, baseball, and then there's this with college sports.
(13:27):
Right you have college football teams reporting, and we are
in what feels like, I don't want to say D day,
D week where we're how far away feels like hours
days away from the end of the Pac twelve. And
(13:48):
what happened with Colorado leaving the Pac twelve to return
to the Big twelve. If you go back, you know
there's a new commissioner of the Pac twelve and he
has said time and again like don't worry, we got
a TV, we're working it out, we're getting there. It's
gonna happen. It's gonna happen. And at some point I
think Colorado just got frustrated over wait, We've been told
(14:10):
so many times this is gonna happen. It never actually did.
Whereas the Big twelve who took early money, and remember
that money is in the mid thirties, which is literally
half of what the Big ten's making. But it's a deal.
It's solids in place in six years and it solidifies
(14:33):
and strengthens that conference. But what had happened previously was
all the other schools the Big twelve had added, we're
all getting a raise because they were all coming from
a lower level Central Florida, Houston, Cincinnati, those schools were
all BYU. They were all added from conferences that didn't
pay out in the twenties, let alone thirties per year.
(14:58):
Getting Colorado to kind of gravel and shelf of their
feet and return to the Big twelve, that's that's a
power five to power five move. And when you factor
in what looks like the Pac twelve won't be able
to land anywhere near the payday of the Big twelve
(15:18):
because like, losing Colorado doesn't kill them, but losing SC
and losing Ucla does, Like it's you're basically on on
on uh on deathwatch. That LA market is SC is
the only thing that really matters in football and Ucla
and basketball is a huge name, but it's the LA market.
(15:42):
You know, Stanford doesn't really matter, Cow doesn't really matter.
Organ's been good, but it's Organ without SC. It's just
a organ it's just a Nike school, you dub great school,
great place, you know, and it feels like they're coach,
got them go in the right direction. But Oregon and
(16:03):
Washington specifically, they want to be in the Big Ten.
And even as a Big twelve guy, I'll tell you,
the Big Ten is considered by all in the industry
more prestigious and not just more money, more prestigious, great historical,
gigantic state institutions. They're not getting an SEC call, so
the Big Ten is the best call they could get.
(16:24):
They'd love the ass the presidents love the association. There.
What's gonna happen is the Big twelve is gonna either
have to pick one or three schools, and once once
that happens, that's it for the Pac twelve as it's
currently constituted. And then the thought is that the Big
Ten will then reach out and get Oregon and Washington.
(16:47):
And then what happens with cal and Stanford? Do they
join the Mountain West? Does the Mountain West join them?
Don't know? And then you got Oregon State, Washington State,
and they're just a victim of wrong conference. Wrong to TIWN.
You know, there's very little difference between Mississippi State and
Washington State or Oregon State, except for Mississippi State has
(17:11):
been a long standing member of the SEC. If you buyer,
let me ask you. If you're the Big Twelve and
the list of schools you can choose from to add
just one are Yukon, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, San Dieu State,
(17:32):
or UNLV. Who do you pick of those?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Just picking one? I would pick Utah? Why because I
think you have your tie in rivalry with BYU in place,
and you can also have that rivalry with Colorado, and.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Then you kind of have like a little mountain region
thing there where you got BYU, Colorado, Utah and who
much forgetting Colorade?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Well right now, that would be it. But if you
added it, which is what I think the Big Twelve
is doing. I even laid this planet on my Sunday
show with Mike Harmon yesterday, is if they expanded to
sixteen and you could add a couple of the schools
that you mentioned, you could basically have four different regions
within the Big Twelve of schools. So you would have
(18:21):
four schools. Say if you'd added both Arizona and Utah
and you expanded to sixteen, and then you added Yukon.
Maybe out east they could be together with Cincinnati and
West Virginia and UCF that then you could have natural
rivalries within the league. But of just picking the one
to expand to fourteen, I would take Utah for Arizona.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
All right, I would personally, I agree with all of that.
I think Arizona State is the one you want to add,
but I don't think I think their president wants something else.
I don't know what they're hoping for, whether it's a
or Big ten, because Arizona State gigantic alumni base, gigantic
(19:06):
and growing TV market and recruiting market. Some ties to
southern California, but more than anything, like you know, you
got one hundred thousand plus students every year. It's kind
of like a Big ten school in the state of Arizona. Arizona,
I think wants to be in the Big twelve is
a lot more like you know, Tucson is like Lubbock,
(19:26):
and it fits a lot of the profile of Big
twelve schools. I think that's the one most likely to
be added. But yeah, it does make it for a
I think they take Arizona and then they feel like
they can always get Utah and maybe get Arizona State
and then have that and then have that same reason.
It's a question of which one do you take. The
Yukon one makes sense in location and it gives them,
(19:52):
you know, they want a foothold in the New York market,
but that is not a great football forsome, no, right.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
But that basketball league, I mean it's already good. Yes,
you add Yukon to it.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Well, there's there's a there's a big discussion in that,
in that room or in the text chain whatever, Berett,
you're marking all the presidents. I think the presidents are
against Yukon just because of like, are they ever going
to like the the ability to go from where they
are in football to being competitive in the league and
(20:31):
bringing something to the table in the league as opposed
to the other options out there. Like I like San
Diego State better than Yukon because it gives you southern
California school, you know. Yeah, And I think Santego State
now it can help the last rest of the league
recruit California, But I also think that Santiye State would
have a chance to It's like it feels like sleeping
(20:54):
Giant football wise, that could really change if they got
into one of the power what could be Power four leagues,
or maybe he's only taking one school, your mark only
take one school. Because now you gotta wait to see
if the ACC fall's part. ACC falls a part. Well,
now you go, okay, let's go get Florida State to
go with UCF, and then let's right the wrong get
maybe Louisville, you know, and then you got to pick
(21:16):
one more, probably Virginia Tech that goes with West Virginia.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
That would be by my understanding, some of that could
be difficult, just because of the ACC and the breakup.
I don't think the ACC exists in thirteen years. I
think that over the next decade they're going to play
this out. But the Clemsons, the Florida States can go,
Miami could go to the SEC, North Carolina, Virginia, you know,
(21:44):
NC State, Virginia Tech can go to the Big ten,
and that's where we are. But that's mid twenty thirties
when their grant of rights expires. I don't know. I
think it's a matter of time for the ACC, but
I don't think that the ACC is for the picking
right now. Plus didn't they just like give Clemson and
Clemson and Florida State like added revenue because of what
(22:08):
they mean for college football.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
They gave they the kind of Texas to you whatever. Yes,
you know, so it's the whole thing is fascinating.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I also think, Doug, just to add on what you're saying,
like we can expect expansion. Heck, Colorado has been in
the league for one week, but the message was right now,
these were the reports, right now, the Big Twelve isn't
looking to add any more schools. And now it's a
week later and they've added another And so like I don't,
I don't believe anything that anybody says, like the Big
(22:40):
Twelve is looking to stand pad at fourteen, like I
expect them to go to expect them to go to
sixteen by the end of the month. It's just to
your point, a matter of who it's actually going to be.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Well, nobody wants to be the bad guy, you know.
They they just don't, especially among those presents, They just
don't want to be. They don't want to be this
is the one who destroyed a league, and unfortunately they're
the ones who destroyed a league. You know, don't really
know what else we can do for you, Bud, because
that's exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
The multiple missteps by the PAC twelve has just been two.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Years ago, the PAC twelve could have ended the Big twelve.
Two years ago, the PAC twelve could have ended the
Big twelve. Big twelve would not exist if the PAC
twelve had reached out, expanded, got a new got got
a new deal ahead of times they could not. And
now what would the PAC twelve is run into is
Here's here's the thing. The previous commissioner of the Big ten.
(23:41):
Excuse me how the PAC twelve, Larry Scott, he has
been crucified in many ways, rightfully so for many of
his decisions while he's there. The one thing I will
tell you that's that's underrated about Larry Scott is the
PAC twelve has never been that valuable ever ever. And
(24:01):
he got over on on Fox and ESPN and building
up a network, you know, with the seven regions or
whatever like all that stuff. There was never any numbers
to support what they got. It was during a boom time.
And now they're getting more of a realistic forecast on
what they could bring in and TV companies like we're
(24:21):
not willing to lose money on this deal. There's no
value in it to us. It's going to be really,
really interesting, going to be very very interesting. The Doug
Olip Show rose on here on Fox Sports Radio. Man
I loved I don't like conference expansion. Everybody kind of
(24:43):
knows that, but I do. I like that the league
that I played in is going to survive when so
oftentimes you know, we were told it wasn't going to survive.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
But nonetheless, Fox Sports Radio had the best sports talk
lineup in the nation yet. Catch all of our shows
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Speaker 1 (25:11):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. I just
learned Discover credit cards. This something pretty awesome. At the
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Match Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Dan Byer,
we'll hear from him in a second. We have missed him.
(25:31):
He had some personal time plus he was filling in
for other shows well, Covino and Rich. He and Monci
Bolanos co hosted, and of course my guy John Ramos,
whose team came up short after winning the districts in baseball,
still had a great year. And then Jason Stewart is
the producer, control and the whole thing. Bayer, you were,
(25:54):
I think doing Covino and Rich when we discussed the
Sean Payton thing. So Chase, do you can attest this?
And you know, social media has my back and we
have it on the old pods whatever where I said, like,
you can't do what he did. It's not right. There's
no Nathaniel Hackett wasn't good. He got fired. It was
a mess. This has all been stated and just because
(26:18):
you're right doesn't mean it's just it's not the thing
you do, especially in professional sports. It's an amateur move
in a professional arena. And I heard from j. J.
Stuh's like, yeah, he said it's true, Like we want
more guys. I understand that we in the media love it,
like dude, say it, yeah, But I'm telling you in sports,
(26:41):
like you don't do that. You don't do that. Byer,
where were you on Sean Payton's remarks when they came
out last week.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, it's kind of weird because I'm not on the
same page with you. I'm kind of just hanging out.
What I almost feel like is in no man's land
because when he said the initial comments, there were multiple
media members in New Orleans and Denver cover the team
or cover the NFL on a national basis. That's like,
this is Sean Payton. This is typical Sean Payton doing
(27:08):
his thing, knowing exactly what he is saying and taking
the pressure off of Russell Wilson and then putting it
on himself. That was a message that multiple people had said.
And then there was the Friday and I'm using the
air quotess apology because it wasn't an apology. All he
said is that he needed a filter, that he needed
to keep his personal thoughts to him, not that he
(27:28):
was wrong or felt differently about Nathaniel Hackett, but that
he just needed to be careful on what he said.
But I also thought that that was a media play.
I actually agree with Aaron Rodgers in what Rogers said
Peyton was doing in a way to kind of take
some heat off of him because on the surface, I
thought that he was maybe sticking up for Russell Wilson,
(27:50):
but Rogers points out, it seems like you're more trying
to cover your back end. So I'm kind of hanging
out in this area where I'm with Jay Stewen that
I like that he is saying it, But there were
so many different levels to the reasons why he was
saying it that it turned into an actual game.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Okay, let's listen to what Aaron Rodgers had to say.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Yeah, I love Nathaniel Hackett and those comments were very
surprising for a coach to do that to another coach.
My love for hat goes deep. You know, we had
some great years together in Green Bay, kept in touch,
love him and his family. He's an incredible family man,
incredible dad, and on the field, you know, he's arguably
my favorite coach I've ever had in the NFL. Just
(28:35):
his approach to it, how he makes it fun, how
he cares about the guys, just how he goes about
his business with respect, with leadership, with honesty, with integrity.
And it made me feel bad that someone who's accomplished
a lot in the league is that insecure that they
have to take another man down to set themselves up
for some sort of easy fall if it doesn't go
(28:57):
well for that team. This year, thought it was way
out of line and appropriate, and I think he needs
to keep Mike coaches names out of his mouth.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I love the coach's name out of his mouth obviously,
a little a little tip of the cap, if you will,
to Will Smith and that that disaster. That's what the
oscars a year and a half ago. I'm in line
with Aaron Rodgers. I always have been. Obviously, those ties
are deep between a rod and Nathaniel Hackett Doug Gottlieb
(29:26):
show here on Fox Sports Radio. Mike Sando joins us.
He writes for The Athletic and he's released his NFL
quarterback tiers this year. I want to get to that
in one second, But first, Mike, I mean, I think
we all know what Sean Payton was on some level doing,
but I can't recall that happening previously. Like there's usually
(29:48):
some amount of camaraderie between between coaches, especially ones that
have been fired. Now, Shawn's never been fired before, so
most other coaches say, you're only you know, every time
you take coaching job, you only wait to be fired.
What do you think of what he originally said and
how and if you thought it was out.
Speaker 6 (30:06):
Of line, totally out of line, Doug and I think
there's been fuge before. Okay, Jerry Glanville and Sam Weis
said way worse things about each other back in the day.
One of the favorite stories I ever wrote a few
years ago on it. Incredible, but there was a reason
for it, right, Like they had they were rivals, they
had you know, somebody had run up the score on somebody.
This is I mean, what does Sean Payton have against you,
(30:29):
Nathaniel Hackett?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Right?
Speaker 6 (30:30):
I think what's happened watching Peyton get such great success
with the Saints and it just felt like a little
ego unchecked, you know. And and even in his announcing career,
he wasn't really worried he'd give interviews and disclose information.
I remember he was just maybe he was about to
(30:51):
get the Bronco job. He was disclosing players he had
called on the Broncos during the season, and just things
that normally you'd be careful about. I think his level
of carefulness has gone away. And so now you come
to Denver, you don't have You're not accountable to anybody.
I mean, you're the boss, you can say whatever you want.
(31:13):
I think he's been in a say whatever I want
mode and just got carried away. And so there's very
few people then who would feel comfortable kind of going
back at him. But Rogers is the perfect guy with
all he's accomplished. I mean, he kind of put him
in his place in a manner that most people couldn't do.
(31:34):
So I thought Peyton probably had it coming, and I
sort of salute Rogers for what he said.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Okay, how is Aaron Rodgers viewed now? For people who
don't know your quarterback tiers? Is this just your opinion
or do you talk to other men?
Speaker 6 (31:49):
No, there's fifty people in the league that I talked to.
I think we had eight general managers, ten head coaches,
fifteen coordinators, ten outther executives. You know, some quarterback coach,
his other coaches, that sort of stuff. So we put
them into tiers. If you're a Tier one quarterback, you
don't need as much around you to win, right Patrick
Mahomes can have the guy can have a mid or
(32:12):
lower level defense. Special teams can be bad. They can
get rid of Tyreek Hill. He can roll his ankle,
and he still carries the team all the way. That's
the ultimate. He's the only unanimous Tier one guy in
the league. So you can go all the way down
to a Tier four player. We don't know enough about you.
Maybe you started five games, or we know a lot
about you, we don't think you're really a full season starter.
(32:33):
So that's kind of the range. And Rogers has been
a just about unanimous Tier one quarterback every year. This
year he slipped to the bottom. Well, he's fourth out
of five and Tier one it goes Mahomes, Joe Burrow,
Josh Allen, they're all almost unanimous Tier one. Then Rogers
is thirty votes in Tier one twenty and Tier two
(32:53):
justin Herbert a little below that, rounding out Tier one.
I thought the most interesting thing that was pointed out
to me about Rogers is that he's going to play
fourteen games on artificial turfs this year and he played
four last year. I thought that was just interesting because
you know, he is somebody who's going to turn forty
this year. There's been a little bit more injuries. He's
(33:16):
had some lower leg stuff, he's had some calf injuries.
That was interesting to me. Something that I hadn't really
thought of in projecting whether he's going to make it
through a whole season, you know, in a tough division.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, and people do forget the turf. You know, fourteen
percent more injuries, I think is the study that I saw.
And the older you are, the more wear and tear
on your body, and it's it's going to be fasting.
Where was Jalen Hurts last year.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
Jalen Hurts I believe was twentieth overall, which probably would
have put him, you know, deep into Tier three. And
so he in a short amount of time, I believe
he's gone from the thirtieth to twentieth to sixth, so
he's right on the cusp of one. He's the top
of tier two. I think that's perfect for him because
(34:03):
he probably kind of was approaching that Tier one level
last year. But you know, to really get in there,
usually you've you've got to prove it do it again.
And I think we also need to see a little
bit more of him in the two minute offense. I mean,
that hasn't been something they've really had to do. When
they had they almost got to do it in the
Super Bowl against the Chiefs, but the penalty probably took
(34:25):
him out of that late in the game, and then
you know, he had one at home against Washington that
was referenced in the column and they were able to
kind of bottle him up when they absolutely had the pass.
So I think that's perfect for him, and he certainly ascended.
Unlike almost anyway. Maybe Josh Allen is somebody who's been
able to do what he's been able to do over
a multi year period going up that high.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I mean, that's really what has to happen, right,
I mean, he's got to be able, and this year
loses Shane Steiking, right, they have some new starters. They
had an easy schedule last year, so this is kind
of a prove that last year wasn't an outlier.
Speaker 6 (35:01):
I love it for him. I think it's a perfect
spot for him, and it's respects what he's done, but
will also taking into account those things. It's been a
great team. They've been great on defense's great on the scheme.
People don't know what to do with their sneak package right,
so now everyone will be geared up for them. They
probably won't be quite as good, schedule will be a
little harder, and he'll have a little bit more adversity
and he'll get a chance to succeed against that.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Where's Deshaun Watson.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
So Deshaun Watson is barely hanging on in tier two.
He went to the bottom of Tier two from the
bottom of tier one. I think if he had looked
as bad as he looked last year for more than
the six games, he might have gone further. It was alarming,
it was concerning, and most people just said, you know,
he had a lot going on, and then it's a
long layoff. It's just a long time to be off.
(35:47):
So that's probably a little bit of a benefit of
the doubt for him in terms of, hey, we know
how good he was athletically. We don't see any reason
why he can't re attain that. But maybe it was
just a little bit difficult situation, not you know, being
part of the practice plan as much during the year
and all of that, and now we'll see. I think
it makes Cleveland such a fascinating team, like they could
(36:09):
really be in the mix, or if Deshaun Watson can't
get it back, they could really be having a lot
of turnover.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
They could, I mean, but they're not turned over quarterbacks
as he's got you know, three more years completely guarantee.
Mike Sando joins us. You go to the Athletic, you
can check out his quarterback tiers. Who will be the lowest.
That's the most surprising to people.
Speaker 6 (36:35):
Now, let me just go through these. So I just
got off for radio in San Francisco. They're wondering why
brock Purty, who's you know, had as sparkling records in
Tier four? Just need to see more. I think that's
certainly one TUA getting almost all Tier three votes, and I
think even a couple of Tier fours, I mean shows
a reflection of the durability, shows the difficulty people have
giving credit and knowing how to assign credit when you
(36:58):
suddenly have a great situation with a great play caller
and great wide receivers. I think people a little slow.
They kind of look at two and say, look, this
is all perfectly choreographed on time. Yeah, he's accurate, but
they're not given him credit for driving that offense. So
if he can do it again this year, like last
(37:19):
the whole year, I bet you he comes in he
get threatened kind of into that Kirk Cousins, you know,
low tier two type of range, but there's probably more
skepticism for him than if you just look at the statuet,
right you might expect.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Okay, who's the highest? That'll be more surprising.
Speaker 6 (37:39):
Going through this. You know, I've gotten some pushback on
Justin Herbert from some people like, wait a minute, Justin
Herbert's getting Tier one, What the heck has he done?
You know? And he's one of those guys that checks
all the boxes when you look at him. The way
I sort of explained it is the last two years,
they're twenty eighth. The Chargers are in combined Defense Special Teams,
(38:01):
they have a nineteen and fifteen record. If you look
at the teams that are below them and defense Special Teams,
they're fifty one, eighty four and one. So I think
you give that quarterback some credit for driving what success
they've had. But certainly if you look at the other
guys in Tier one, especially Mahomes to some extent Rogers Burrow,
(38:21):
they've probably had a little bit more success in the
big games.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Okay, here's a it's interesting. So who gave you the
pushback on Herbert? I do think that it's kind of
like a fan thing, Andanuacho is like the one guy
and my point when he signed the big deal last
week was no one who's like an NFL person that
I know even bad than I. They all think he's
(38:47):
That I thought of was when you get the pushback,
is that from people who voted or from from who.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
It's all this fan you know, I've always you get
so far on the inside of the stuff when you
do these projects and you're talking to people on the inside,
that's all I talk to, So you can't always predict
how someone on the outside is going to react. There's
always one or two things that gets latched onto from
this that's a surprise to me, Like, well, I didn't
know they were going to do that. So that was
(39:16):
some of the well you can't what is justin Herbert want.
I've gotten that from I don't know if it's sports
media people, just to my Twitter timeline. You know, I've
gotten some some of that on him, a little bit
of pushback, and you know, Goff, I think some people
think Goth's a little low. And I've gotten some pushback
on GoF being in Tier three from some people in
the league as well, But seventeen people put him in
(39:39):
Tier two. That's when I've heard you know, can this
guy get some credit?
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I mean, you know, what do NFL people think about
Justin Fields?
Speaker 6 (39:48):
Well, real skeptical on the ability to what he's going
to become as a passer. You know, I think there's
everyone thinks he's smart enough and he's set the right
head on his shoulders, he's going to work at it,
and of course the incredible athleticism running the ball, but
just you know, in terms of the instincts and feel
for the position and the accuracy with the passing, you know,
(40:12):
the hope is that hey, you can follow it just
Jalen Hurts, pat right, this has been done, and that
we're in an age where it's probably going to be
done more often. You know, in the past ten years ago,
fifteen years ago, Fields might go to some team and
he doesn't learn the system or doesn't do well in
that West Coast offense and he doesn't have a chance.
I think he's got a chance, but there is some
(40:33):
question about, you know, whether he can improve enough in
the passing of the football to really elevate and push
and be up to where Hurts is now.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Mike, This is great stuff. Obviously, It's what everybody loves
talking about. Quarterback tears, and you're the guy who every
year does his time, does his duty, does his due diligence.
I really appreciate you joining us.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
It's fun. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Mike Sandell join us on The Doug Gottlieb Show here
on Fox Sports Radio
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR Booming Up America.
Doug Gottlieb Show, Foxsports Radio coming to you from the
(00:25):
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(00:45):
Klingle's been kind enough as their marketing manager to have
us on. Thanks so much, Wahoo Nation. We do. We'll
cover college football, especially what appears to be we're on
the brink of expansion of the Big twelve and maybe
the Big Ten, and we'll see what happens with the
ACC So it definitely affects everybody in Charlottesville as well
(01:07):
as the rest of the world of sports. We have
football to get to. We'll get there in one second.
Aaron Rodgers versus Sean Payton will get to. Mike Sando's
gonna join us. He's an NFL writer for the Athletic.
He's got his quarterback tiers. I'll be interested to see
where his quarterback tiers take us. And then of course
we got a little basketball in the second hour of
the show as Rick Buker will join us and we'll
(01:30):
talk that conference expansion, conference contraction, maybe conference extinction as well.
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should be, all right. You know there's a lot of
(02:17):
back and forth at times between agents, players and teams. Hey,
but this Jonathan Taylor versus Jim Ersay with this thing
took on a whole another level of nastiness over the weekend.
Here's Jim Ersay, owner the Colts over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
If I die tonight and Jonathan Taylor's the league, no
one's gonna miss us. The league goes on. I mean,
you know, we know that the National Football rolls on.
It doesn't matter, you know who who comes and who goes.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So obviously that didn't That didn't sit well. The agent
had some comments for the Colts. There's apparently a trade
demand that was made. There's this story out there that
Jonathan Taylor checked in to Colts camp and said he
had a bad back and hurt us back in his
own private workouts. Taylor went on to social media last
(03:11):
night and said never said anything about the back, but
he shut down. He's in a negotiation. Remember he's a
second round draft pick, not a first round pick. So
there's no fifth year option. Excuse me, but there is.
There is still the franchise tag two years over for
the Colts in the back of their pocket. And the
reports are that in the contract extension talks he wants
(03:32):
sixteen million a year. And of course we're coming off
of last the last two weeks talking about these running
backs over and over and over and over again. And
what Jim Ersay said probably wasn't the smartest thing. You know,
probably wasn't the smartest thing. But if you didn't know
(03:53):
anything about Jim Ersay, he's never really said the smartest thing.
ESPN Stephen Holder actually actually asked if there was a
trade request made. He asked Jonathan Taylor, and Taylor said no.
(04:14):
But apparently after team meeting, Jonathan Taylor's trade request was
met with this from Jim Mersey. We're not trading Jonathan.
End of discussion. Not now, Not in October. Taylor was
eligible for an extension this summer after his third season
in the NFL, but the Colts, like just about every
other team in the NFL has done with star running backs,
they declined to knock him down. Now, this is an article,
(04:35):
by the way, I'm reading from Jack Bear, that's not true.
That's actually not true at all. There have been extensions
after the third year. You want to know which ones
they are? Ezekiel Elliott remember that one? Oh, I got
another one for you, Todd Gurley, how'd that work out?
(04:56):
And of course Christian McCaffrey, who Christian McCaffrey is a
great pla right great player. But there's a couple things
about Christian McCaffrey that we have to be honest and
point out. As he was traded last year to the
San Francisco forty nine ers. Christian McCaffrey, it's the highest
paid running back in the NFL. His first three years
under his rookie deal, he played every game, all sixteen.
(05:22):
A year he signs a new deal, and granted he
was a first round pick, so he had They had
him under contract from up to seven years if they
didn't want to rework his deal, right, that's the five
years of the contract, two years of franchise tag. He
plays three games, he plays seven games, and then last year,
although he played all seventeen games for two different teams
(05:43):
and had an outstanding season, the Panthers actually got better
running the football when he was traded away at a
fraction of the cost. So this is one of those
deals where we have people agents speaking about things you don't.
You don't need to You don't need to make comments
(06:05):
about about what you know, what's smart, what's not smart.
You don't need to make comments about a contract extension.
All you need to say is we want to be
a cult. We want to be a cult for the
rest of our lives. We just want, you know, what
the what the market will bear, what the market will bear.
And this ever present, ever present sends that if a
(06:28):
guy doesn't get what he wants, he can be traded.
Two things. One, this is the first thing, is somebody
else has to be willing to pay him at that market.
Maybe there is, because he's only played three years in
the league. Last year was his first year being injured again,
long term guarantee running back already injured, isn't that likely
to help happen more. But secondly, and most importantly, even
if there is another team who wants to pay him
(06:50):
sixteen million a year and was willing to trade, the
Colts don't have to because we drafted a guy in
the second round and he's achieved. He's better than what
that valuation should have been. And we have them under
contract for this year, year four, at potentially two more
years with no negotiation. We don't have to trade you.
(07:13):
And you can say, well, this is just a football thing.
That's not true. I don't know if you know this
about media contracts, and again some of them are different,
but buyer you and Jay stut you guys know this
right in media contracts, when they come to an end,
you're technically not allowed to negotiate until a specific window
(07:36):
and even after if you agree to terms on a
deal with somebody else. Like when I was at ESPN
and I six months out they told me they would
renew me. I got an offer shortly thereafter. That was
a low ball offer, and then it's not until I
think three months out where you could go and actually
shop for your new offer. Then I got a new offer.
(07:57):
Then it was kind of the back and forth competitive thing.
But after I had agreed to terms to move to CBS,
ESPN had rite a first refusal, they could have said like, nah,
we're good, we want we want you at that same
we'll pay you the exact same amount, and you're under
there's nothing you can do. Kind of their own franchise tag.
(08:17):
So every business based upon the contract, based upon the
contract that you signed, has different implications in this one.
For the Colts, they don't have to do anything. You
can say, hey, they're bad guys for not paying him,
and he'll lowball him if it's a franchise tag next year,
in a franchise tag the year before, but they don't
(08:38):
have to do any other the goodness of their heart,
businesses don't have to do that. Would you like your
running back to be motivated to succeed in part of it? Sure,
But he's also a free agent next year potentially if
they don't do the franchise tag, so he's not going
to play hard. You don't really have any leverage other
than he won't show up. And the only way to
(09:01):
strike down that leverage is your owner saying like, nah,
it doesn't matter if he holds out the whole time.
So I'm not saying I'm on team Taylor, I'm on
team Reality. Team reality is Hey, look if I got
him for one more year next year, I'm gonna pay
him ten. You know, I'll go to twelve or thirteen
(09:23):
for two years, maybe something partially guaranteed in year three.
Now that's sort of top of the market. He'll still
be very young. He's twenty four years old, so we're
talking next year's twenty five, then twenty six, twenty seven.
Then I'm probably wanting to be out of that business.
But I can also see a world which you're like, yeah,
you're really good. But the problem with running backs is
(09:47):
like the show Heyo Tani problem, and you're like, wait, what,
think about this for a second show Heyo tan He's
likely to sign a deal somewhere from five to seven
hundred million dollars. The one issue, the one thing that
should hold you back as a franchise is yes, he
does both. But if you lose him, you lose both.
(10:11):
You lose a starting top of you know, top of
the rotation pitcher, and you lose the best hitter in
your lineup. Now, it's less likely to happen in baseball
and less likely to happen to show hey, because he's
going to DH most of the time anyway, and you
know he's already had Tommy John most guys. Once you're
past that, you're past that. What's the same thing with
(10:32):
running backs? We always look at, well, he can run
and he can catch it out of the backfield. Okay,
but if you go down now, it's going to take
two guys, probably maybe three. But those three guys you
can get at a minimum rate, at a fraction of
what it costs. We are all replaceable, all of us.
And it usually comes out of one big budget. And
(10:53):
how do you fit into that budget? And the last
thing I would say is this, You can piss off
a lot lot of people. You can piss off a
lot of people, but man like, ticking off your owner
is like, that's just not a way in which you
(11:15):
are going to ultimately get your way in any business,
in any business, going directly at the owner and the
owner getting upset is not generally a way in which
anyone sees any success. You have to speak in bigger terms.
(11:37):
You have to talk about the process. You have to
talk about the running market, running back market. Whatever you do,
do not make it personal to the owner, because the
owner owns and I don't think or say would do this.
But you know, there's the old Al Davis story. He
killed Marcus Allen's career. There was supposedly different reasons, but
it's the owner got upset, and the owner made the
(11:58):
edict don't blame my arcus Allen. If the owner doesn't
want to pay you, he ain't gonna pay you anything
more than he's got to pay you. And the second
you make it personal, you don't know how people are
going to react. Like Jerry Jones with the Ezekielly thing.
You know, he got involved and he said zeke wu.
But Jerry Jones has got this. He's just a bleeding
(12:21):
heart for so many these players. And maybe the Zach
Martin thing is the first time he's going to stand
up for himself. Jim Mersey is not Jerry Jones. That's
an understatement.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
This is the best of the Don dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
What Up with You? Doug gott Leeb Show, Fox Sports
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It's the way that tire buying should be. We have
I think as good an hour for you as you're
(13:02):
going to hear anywhere in radio with the press. We'll
get to all the big stories of the day. And
I'm sure Dan Beyer, who works really hard at putting
that together. Plus you have updates. We'll get there's some
injuries in the NFL. There's some signings in the NFL.
There's some trade deadline stuff in baseball. Got all that
plus got that's baseball, Rick Buker this hour. So we
have football, baseball, and then there's this with college sports.
(13:27):
Right you have college football teams reporting, and we are
in what feels like, I don't want to say D day,
D week where we're how far away feels like hours
days away from the end of the Pac twelve. And
(13:48):
what happened with Colorado leaving the Pac twelve to return
to the Big twelve. If you go back, you know
there's a new commissioner of the Pac twelve and he
has said time and again like don't worry, we got
a TV, we're working it out, we're getting there. It's
gonna happen. It's gonna happen. And at some point I
think Colorado just got frustrated over wait, We've been told
(14:10):
so many times this is gonna happen. It never actually did.
Whereas the Big twelve who took early money, and remember
that money is in the mid thirties, which is literally
half of what the Big ten's making. But it's a deal.
It's solids in place in six years and it solidifies
(14:33):
and strengthens that conference. But what had happened previously was
all the other schools the Big twelve had added, we're
all getting a raise because they were all coming from
a lower level Central Florida, Houston, Cincinnati, those schools were
all BYU. They were all added from conferences that didn't
pay out in the twenties, let alone thirties per year.
(14:58):
Getting Colorado to kind of gravel and shelf of their
feet and return to the Big twelve, that's that's a
power five to power five move. And when you factor
in what looks like the Pac twelve won't be able
to land anywhere near the payday of the Big twelve
(15:18):
because like, losing Colorado doesn't kill them, but losing SC
and losing Ucla does, Like it's you're basically on on
on uh on deathwatch. That LA market is SC is
the only thing that really matters in football and Ucla
and basketball is a huge name, but it's the LA market.
(15:42):
You know, Stanford doesn't really matter, Cow doesn't really matter.
Organ's been good, but it's Organ without SC. It's just
a organ it's just a Nike school, you dub great school,
great place, you know, and it feels like they're coach,
got them go in the right direction. But Oregon and
(16:03):
Washington specifically, they want to be in the Big Ten.
And even as a Big twelve guy, I'll tell you,
the Big Ten is considered by all in the industry
more prestigious and not just more money, more prestigious, great historical,
gigantic state institutions. They're not getting an SEC call, so
the Big Ten is the best call they could get.
(16:24):
They'd love the ass the presidents love the association. There.
What's gonna happen is the Big twelve is gonna either
have to pick one or three schools, and once once
that happens, that's it for the Pac twelve as it's
currently constituted. And then the thought is that the Big
Ten will then reach out and get Oregon and Washington.
(16:47):
And then what happens with cal and Stanford? Do they
join the Mountain West? Does the Mountain West join them?
Don't know? And then you got Oregon State, Washington State,
and they're just a victim of wrong conference. Wrong to TIWN.
You know, there's very little difference between Mississippi State and
Washington State or Oregon State, except for Mississippi State has
(17:11):
been a long standing member of the SEC. If you buyer,
let me ask you. If you're the Big Twelve and
the list of schools you can choose from to add
just one are Yukon, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, San Dieu State,
(17:32):
or UNLV. Who do you pick of those?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Just picking one? I would pick Utah? Why because I
think you have your tie in rivalry with BYU in place,
and you can also have that rivalry with Colorado, and.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Then you kind of have like a little mountain region
thing there where you got BYU, Colorado, Utah and who
much forgetting Colorade?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Well right now, that would be it. But if you
added it, which is what I think the Big Twelve
is doing. I even laid this planet on my Sunday
show with Mike Harmon yesterday, is if they expanded to
sixteen and you could add a couple of the schools
that you mentioned, you could basically have four different regions
within the Big Twelve of schools. So you would have
(18:21):
four schools. Say if you'd added both Arizona and Utah
and you expanded to sixteen, and then you added Yukon.
Maybe out east they could be together with Cincinnati and
West Virginia and UCF that then you could have natural
rivalries within the league. But of just picking the one
to expand to fourteen, I would take Utah for Arizona.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
All right, I would personally, I agree with all of that.
I think Arizona State is the one you want to add,
but I don't think I think their president wants something else.
I don't know what they're hoping for, whether it's a
or Big ten, because Arizona State gigantic alumni base, gigantic
(19:06):
and growing TV market and recruiting market. Some ties to
southern California, but more than anything, like you know, you
got one hundred thousand plus students every year. It's kind
of like a Big ten school in the state of Arizona. Arizona,
I think wants to be in the Big twelve is
a lot more like you know, Tucson is like Lubbock,
(19:26):
and it fits a lot of the profile of Big
twelve schools. I think that's the one most likely to
be added. But yeah, it does make it for a
I think they take Arizona and then they feel like
they can always get Utah and maybe get Arizona State
and then have that and then have that same reason.
It's a question of which one do you take. The
Yukon one makes sense in location and it gives them,
(19:52):
you know, they want a foothold in the New York market,
but that is not a great football forsome, no, right.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
But that basketball league, I mean it's already good. Yes,
you add Yukon to it.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Well, there's there's a there's a big discussion in that,
in that room or in the text chain whatever, Berett,
you're marking all the presidents. I think the presidents are
against Yukon just because of like, are they ever going
to like the the ability to go from where they
are in football to being competitive in the league and
(20:31):
bringing something to the table in the league as opposed
to the other options out there. Like I like San
Diego State better than Yukon because it gives you southern
California school, you know. Yeah, And I think Santego State
now it can help the last rest of the league
recruit California, But I also think that Santiye State would
have a chance to It's like it feels like sleeping
(20:54):
Giant football wise, that could really change if they got
into one of the power what could be Power four leagues,
or maybe he's only taking one school, your mark only
take one school. Because now you gotta wait to see
if the ACC fall's part. ACC falls a part. Well,
now you go, okay, let's go get Florida State to
go with UCF, and then let's right the wrong get
maybe Louisville, you know, and then you got to pick
(21:16):
one more, probably Virginia Tech that goes with West Virginia.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
That would be by my understanding, some of that could
be difficult, just because of the ACC and the breakup.
I don't think the ACC exists in thirteen years. I
think that over the next decade they're going to play
this out. But the Clemsons, the Florida States can go,
Miami could go to the SEC, North Carolina, Virginia, you know,
(21:44):
NC State, Virginia Tech can go to the Big ten,
and that's where we are. But that's mid twenty thirties
when their grant of rights expires. I don't know. I
think it's a matter of time for the ACC, but
I don't think that the ACC is for the picking
right now. Plus didn't they just like give Clemson and
Clemson and Florida State like added revenue because of what
(22:08):
they mean for college football.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
They gave they the kind of Texas to you whatever. Yes,
you know, so it's the whole thing is fascinating.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I also think, Doug, just to add on what you're saying,
like we can expect expansion. Heck, Colorado has been in
the league for one week, but the message was right now,
these were the reports, right now, the Big Twelve isn't
looking to add any more schools. And now it's a
week later and they've added another And so like I don't,
I don't believe anything that anybody says, like the Big
(22:40):
Twelve is looking to stand pad at fourteen, like I
expect them to go to expect them to go to
sixteen by the end of the month. It's just to
your point, a matter of who it's actually going to be.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Well, nobody wants to be the bad guy, you know.
They they just don't, especially among those presents, They just
don't want to be. They don't want to be this
is the one who destroyed a league, and unfortunately they're
the ones who destroyed a league. You know, don't really
know what else we can do for you, Bud, because
that's exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
The multiple missteps by the PAC twelve has just been two.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Years ago, the PAC twelve could have ended the Big twelve.
Two years ago, the PAC twelve could have ended the
Big twelve. Big twelve would not exist if the PAC
twelve had reached out, expanded, got a new got got
a new deal ahead of times they could not. And
now what would the PAC twelve is run into is
Here's here's the thing. The previous commissioner of the Big ten.
(23:41):
Excuse me how the PAC twelve, Larry Scott, he has
been crucified in many ways, rightfully so for many of
his decisions while he's there. The one thing I will
tell you that's that's underrated about Larry Scott is the
PAC twelve has never been that valuable ever ever. And
(24:01):
he got over on on Fox and ESPN and building
up a network, you know, with the seven regions or
whatever like all that stuff. There was never any numbers
to support what they got. It was during a boom time.
And now they're getting more of a realistic forecast on
what they could bring in and TV companies like we're
(24:21):
not willing to lose money on this deal. There's no
value in it to us. It's going to be really,
really interesting, going to be very very interesting. The Doug
Olip Show rose on here on Fox Sports Radio. Man
I loved I don't like conference expansion. Everybody kind of
(24:43):
knows that, but I do. I like that the league
that I played in is going to survive when so
oftentimes you know, we were told it wasn't going to survive.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
But nonetheless, Fox Sports Radio had the best sports talk
lineup in the nation yet. Catch all of our shows
at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. I just
learned Discover credit cards. This something pretty awesome. At the
end of your first year, they automatically doubled all the
cash back you've earned. That's right, everything you've earned, doubled.
Cash back from trips, restaurants all doubled. Seriously, those see terms.
Take it off for yourself at Discover dot com. Slash
Match Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Dan Byer,
we'll hear from him in a second. We have missed him.
(25:31):
He had some personal time plus he was filling in
for other shows well, Covino and Rich. He and Monci
Bolanos co hosted, and of course my guy John Ramos,
whose team came up short after winning the districts in baseball,
still had a great year. And then Jason Stewart is
the producer, control and the whole thing. Bayer, you were,
(25:54):
I think doing Covino and Rich when we discussed the
Sean Payton thing. So Chase, do you can attest this?
And you know, social media has my back and we
have it on the old pods whatever where I said, like,
you can't do what he did. It's not right. There's
no Nathaniel Hackett wasn't good. He got fired. It was
a mess. This has all been stated and just because
(26:18):
you're right doesn't mean it's just it's not the thing
you do, especially in professional sports. It's an amateur move
in a professional arena. And I heard from j. J.
Stuh's like, yeah, he said it's true, Like we want
more guys. I understand that we in the media love it,
like dude, say it, yeah, But I'm telling you in sports,
(26:41):
like you don't do that. You don't do that. Byer,
where were you on Sean Payton's remarks when they came
out last week.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, it's kind of weird because I'm not on the
same page with you. I'm kind of just hanging out.
What I almost feel like is in no man's land
because when he said the initial comments, there were multiple
media members in New Orleans and Denver cover the team
or cover the NFL on a national basis. That's like,
this is Sean Payton. This is typical Sean Payton doing
(27:08):
his thing, knowing exactly what he is saying and taking
the pressure off of Russell Wilson and then putting it
on himself. That was a message that multiple people had said.
And then there was the Friday and I'm using the
air quotess apology because it wasn't an apology. All he
said is that he needed a filter, that he needed
to keep his personal thoughts to him, not that he
(27:28):
was wrong or felt differently about Nathaniel Hackett, but that
he just needed to be careful on what he said.
But I also thought that that was a media play.
I actually agree with Aaron Rodgers in what Rogers said
Peyton was doing in a way to kind of take
some heat off of him because on the surface, I
thought that he was maybe sticking up for Russell Wilson,
(27:50):
but Rogers points out, it seems like you're more trying
to cover your back end. So I'm kind of hanging
out in this area where I'm with Jay Stewen that
I like that he is saying it, But there were
so many different levels to the reasons why he was
saying it that it turned into an actual game.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Okay, let's listen to what Aaron Rodgers had to say.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Yeah, I love Nathaniel Hackett and those comments were very
surprising for a coach to do that to another coach.
My love for hat goes deep. You know, we had
some great years together in Green Bay, kept in touch,
love him and his family. He's an incredible family man,
incredible dad, and on the field, you know, he's arguably
my favorite coach I've ever had in the NFL. Just
(28:35):
his approach to it, how he makes it fun, how
he cares about the guys, just how he goes about
his business with respect, with leadership, with honesty, with integrity.
And it made me feel bad that someone who's accomplished
a lot in the league is that insecure that they
have to take another man down to set themselves up
for some sort of easy fall if it doesn't go
(28:57):
well for that team. This year, thought it was way
out of line and appropriate, and I think he needs
to keep Mike coaches names out of his mouth.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I love the coach's name out of his mouth obviously,
a little a little tip of the cap, if you will,
to Will Smith and that that disaster. That's what the
oscars a year and a half ago. I'm in line
with Aaron Rodgers. I always have been. Obviously, those ties
are deep between a rod and Nathaniel Hackett Doug Gottlieb
(29:26):
show here on Fox Sports Radio. Mike Sando joins us.
He writes for The Athletic and he's released his NFL
quarterback tiers this year. I want to get to that
in one second, But first, Mike, I mean, I think
we all know what Sean Payton was on some level doing,
but I can't recall that happening previously. Like there's usually
(29:48):
some amount of camaraderie between between coaches, especially ones that
have been fired. Now, Shawn's never been fired before, so
most other coaches say, you're only you know, every time
you take coaching job, you only wait to be fired.
What do you think of what he originally said and
how and if you thought it was out.
Speaker 6 (30:06):
Of line, totally out of line, Doug and I think
there's been fuge before. Okay, Jerry Glanville and Sam Weis
said way worse things about each other back in the day.
One of the favorite stories I ever wrote a few
years ago on it. Incredible, but there was a reason
for it, right, Like they had they were rivals, they
had you know, somebody had run up the score on somebody.
This is I mean, what does Sean Payton have against you,
(30:29):
Nathaniel Hackett?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Right?
Speaker 6 (30:30):
I think what's happened watching Peyton get such great success
with the Saints and it just felt like a little
ego unchecked, you know. And and even in his announcing career,
he wasn't really worried he'd give interviews and disclose information.
I remember he was just maybe he was about to
(30:51):
get the Bronco job. He was disclosing players he had
called on the Broncos during the season, and just things
that normally you'd be careful about. I think his level
of carefulness has gone away. And so now you come
to Denver, you don't have You're not accountable to anybody.
I mean, you're the boss, you can say whatever you want.
(31:13):
I think he's been in a say whatever I want
mode and just got carried away. And so there's very
few people then who would feel comfortable kind of going
back at him. But Rogers is the perfect guy with
all he's accomplished. I mean, he kind of put him
in his place in a manner that most people couldn't do.
(31:34):
So I thought Peyton probably had it coming, and I
sort of salute Rogers for what he said.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Okay, how is Aaron Rodgers viewed now? For people who
don't know your quarterback tiers? Is this just your opinion
or do you talk to other men?
Speaker 6 (31:49):
No, there's fifty people in the league that I talked to.
I think we had eight general managers, ten head coaches,
fifteen coordinators, ten outther executives. You know, some quarterback coach,
his other coaches, that sort of stuff. So we put
them into tiers. If you're a Tier one quarterback, you
don't need as much around you to win, right Patrick
Mahomes can have the guy can have a mid or
(32:12):
lower level defense. Special teams can be bad. They can
get rid of Tyreek Hill. He can roll his ankle,
and he still carries the team all the way. That's
the ultimate. He's the only unanimous Tier one guy in
the league. So you can go all the way down
to a Tier four player. We don't know enough about you.
Maybe you started five games, or we know a lot
about you, we don't think you're really a full season starter.
(32:33):
So that's kind of the range. And Rogers has been
a just about unanimous Tier one quarterback every year. This
year he slipped to the bottom. Well, he's fourth out
of five and Tier one it goes Mahomes, Joe Burrow,
Josh Allen, they're all almost unanimous Tier one. Then Rogers
is thirty votes in Tier one twenty and Tier two
(32:53):
justin Herbert a little below that, rounding out Tier one.
I thought the most interesting thing that was pointed out
to me about Rogers is that he's going to play
fourteen games on artificial turfs this year and he played
four last year. I thought that was just interesting because
you know, he is somebody who's going to turn forty
this year. There's been a little bit more injuries. He's
(33:16):
had some lower leg stuff, he's had some calf injuries.
That was interesting to me. Something that I hadn't really
thought of in projecting whether he's going to make it
through a whole season, you know, in a tough division.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, and people do forget the turf. You know, fourteen
percent more injuries, I think is the study that I saw.
And the older you are, the more wear and tear
on your body, and it's it's going to be fasting.
Where was Jalen Hurts last year.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
Jalen Hurts I believe was twentieth overall, which probably would
have put him, you know, deep into Tier three. And
so he in a short amount of time, I believe
he's gone from the thirtieth to twentieth to sixth, so
he's right on the cusp of one. He's the top
of tier two. I think that's perfect for him because
(34:03):
he probably kind of was approaching that Tier one level
last year. But you know, to really get in there,
usually you've you've got to prove it do it again.
And I think we also need to see a little
bit more of him in the two minute offense. I mean,
that hasn't been something they've really had to do. When
they had they almost got to do it in the
Super Bowl against the Chiefs, but the penalty probably took
(34:25):
him out of that late in the game, and then
you know, he had one at home against Washington that
was referenced in the column and they were able to
kind of bottle him up when they absolutely had the pass.
So I think that's perfect for him, and he certainly ascended.
Unlike almost anyway. Maybe Josh Allen is somebody who's been
able to do what he's been able to do over
a multi year period going up that high.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I mean, that's really what has to happen, right,
I mean, he's got to be able, and this year
loses Shane Steiking, right, they have some new starters. They
had an easy schedule last year, so this is kind
of a prove that last year wasn't an outlier.
Speaker 6 (35:01):
I love it for him. I think it's a perfect
spot for him, and it's respects what he's done, but
will also taking into account those things. It's been a
great team. They've been great on defense's great on the scheme.
People don't know what to do with their sneak package right,
so now everyone will be geared up for them. They
probably won't be quite as good, schedule will be a
little harder, and he'll have a little bit more adversity
and he'll get a chance to succeed against that.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Where's Deshaun Watson.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
So Deshaun Watson is barely hanging on in tier two.
He went to the bottom of Tier two from the
bottom of tier one. I think if he had looked
as bad as he looked last year for more than
the six games, he might have gone further. It was alarming,
it was concerning, and most people just said, you know,
he had a lot going on, and then it's a
long layoff. It's just a long time to be off.
(35:47):
So that's probably a little bit of a benefit of
the doubt for him in terms of, hey, we know
how good he was athletically. We don't see any reason
why he can't re attain that. But maybe it was
just a little bit difficult situation, not you know, being
part of the practice plan as much during the year
and all of that, and now we'll see. I think
it makes Cleveland such a fascinating team, like they could
(36:09):
really be in the mix, or if Deshaun Watson can't
get it back, they could really be having a lot
of turnover.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
They could, I mean, but they're not turned over quarterbacks
as he's got you know, three more years completely guarantee.
Mike Sando joins us. You go to the Athletic, you
can check out his quarterback tiers. Who will be the lowest.
That's the most surprising to people.
Speaker 6 (36:35):
Now, let me just go through these. So I just
got off for radio in San Francisco. They're wondering why
brock Purty, who's you know, had as sparkling records in
Tier four? Just need to see more. I think that's
certainly one TUA getting almost all Tier three votes, and I
think even a couple of Tier fours, I mean shows
a reflection of the durability, shows the difficulty people have
giving credit and knowing how to assign credit when you
(36:58):
suddenly have a great situation with a great play caller
and great wide receivers. I think people a little slow.
They kind of look at two and say, look, this
is all perfectly choreographed on time. Yeah, he's accurate, but
they're not given him credit for driving that offense. So
if he can do it again this year, like last
(37:19):
the whole year, I bet you he comes in he
get threatened kind of into that Kirk Cousins, you know,
low tier two type of range, but there's probably more
skepticism for him than if you just look at the statuet,
right you might expect.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Okay, who's the highest? That'll be more surprising.
Speaker 6 (37:39):
Going through this. You know, I've gotten some pushback on
Justin Herbert from some people like, wait a minute, Justin
Herbert's getting Tier one, What the heck has he done?
You know? And he's one of those guys that checks
all the boxes when you look at him. The way
I sort of explained it is the last two years,
they're twenty eighth. The Chargers are in combined Defense Special Teams,
(38:01):
they have a nineteen and fifteen record. If you look
at the teams that are below them and defense Special Teams,
they're fifty one, eighty four and one. So I think
you give that quarterback some credit for driving what success
they've had. But certainly if you look at the other
guys in Tier one, especially Mahomes to some extent Rogers Burrow,
(38:21):
they've probably had a little bit more success in the
big games.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Okay, here's a it's interesting. So who gave you the
pushback on Herbert? I do think that it's kind of
like a fan thing, Andanuacho is like the one guy
and my point when he signed the big deal last
week was no one who's like an NFL person that
I know even bad than I. They all think he's
(38:47):
That I thought of was when you get the pushback,
is that from people who voted or from from who.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
It's all this fan you know, I've always you get
so far on the inside of the stuff when you
do these projects and you're talking to people on the inside,
that's all I talk to, So you can't always predict
how someone on the outside is going to react. There's
always one or two things that gets latched onto from
this that's a surprise to me, Like, well, I didn't
know they were going to do that. So that was
(39:16):
some of the well you can't what is justin Herbert want.
I've gotten that from I don't know if it's sports
media people, just to my Twitter timeline. You know, I've
gotten some some of that on him, a little bit
of pushback, and you know, Goff, I think some people
think Goth's a little low. And I've gotten some pushback
on GoF being in Tier three from some people in
the league as well, But seventeen people put him in
(39:39):
Tier two. That's when I've heard you know, can this
guy get some credit?
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I mean, you know, what do NFL people think about
Justin Fields?
Speaker 6 (39:48):
Well, real skeptical on the ability to what he's going
to become as a passer. You know, I think there's
everyone thinks he's smart enough and he's set the right
head on his shoulders, he's going to work at it,
and of course the incredible athleticism running the ball, but
just you know, in terms of the instincts and feel
for the position and the accuracy with the passing, you know,
(40:12):
the hope is that hey, you can follow it just
Jalen Hurts, pat right, this has been done, and that
we're in an age where it's probably going to be
done more often. You know, in the past ten years ago,
fifteen years ago, Fields might go to some team and
he doesn't learn the system or doesn't do well in
that West Coast offense and he doesn't have a chance.
I think he's got a chance, but there is some
(40:33):
question about, you know, whether he can improve enough in
the passing of the football to really elevate and push
and be up to where Hurts is now.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Mike, This is great stuff. Obviously, It's what everybody loves
talking about. Quarterback tears, and you're the guy who every
year does his time, does his duty, does his due diligence.
I really appreciate you joining us.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
It's fun. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Mike Sandell join us on The Doug Gottlieb Show here
on Fox Sports Radio
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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