3 & Out - Myles Garrett requests a trade, NFL heads down under, Chip Kelly gets a bag

John dives into the news of the day that saw Myle Garrett request a trade out of Cleveland despite his love for the city. John talks about what teams will be interested in trading for Garrett, and how big of a haul will Cleveland get if they do indeed trade him. Next, John discusses a few of the topics that Roger Goodell talked about during his press conference at the Super Bowl and if we will see a game in Australia in 2025-2026.

Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment.

5:45 - Myles Garrett requests a trade

24:05 - NFL to go down-under

30:45 - Chip Kelly gets PAID

36:47 - Chasing Challenges 

45:41 - Mailbag

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on, everybody, how are we doing?
It's me John Middlecoff. Hopefully everyone's having a great day.

(00:22):
Three now podcasts. Super Bowl week. We got a lot
going on. If you're listening this in the morning, I
might be uh, might be up on a bird flying
to New Orleans. So the next podcast probably happened from
a hotel room down close to Bourbon Street, talking a
little ball, taking in the festivity, see what's going on.
Excited for the week, got buddies from both teams there.

(00:45):
We got some business to attend to. I think we
got a volume party. So it should be a busy
couple days of eating some gumbo, maybe having a few cocktails,
and talking some ball with the People's supposed to be nice.
I'm gonna bring some shorts. Talk to one of my
budd he's on the Chiefs today. I was like, what's
the weather. He's like, it's hot or shorts and T
shirts to the practice today. I was sweating. It's like,

(01:06):
damn like that. So excited for some warm weather and
to talk a little football. But I mean the story
of the day, at least football wise, Miles Garrett has
asked for a trade, so we will dive into that.
Some other NFL topics. A lot going on around the NFL.
Oh Roger spoke, the NFL is going to Australia, and

(01:28):
Chip Kelly talking about getting the bag, especially no state
income tax Vegas. They gave him a lot of money.
And we'll do a little mail bag at John Middlecoff
at John Middlecoff. Fire in those dms. Get your questions
answered here on the show. And if you listen on
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I was texting with Colin. He's doing okay. We're recording

(01:49):
a podcast tomorrow. Supposed to do it today, but he's
resting and we will talk. I'll talk to him tomorrow
officially for a podcast. Make sure you subscribe the YouTube page.
All of our content is up there as well, and
we'll just keep firing out podcasts, rocking and rolling. Other
than that, Yeah, let's roll. But first, you know, I

(02:11):
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(03:14):
is usually how a marquee superstar, highly paid a great
player of his generation, is typically supposed to get moved.
Now Miles Garrett hasn't been moved yet, but typically there
is a trade request, because that's usually the only reason
you trade an all time great player in the peak
of his powers, he demands to get traded, and you're like,

(03:36):
you know what, we'll just sell high on this. It's
not worth the energy that it will take to massage
this relationship. And on the flip side, sometimes a player
just gets to a point where it's like, you know,
I've had enough. I've given you eight years. Most of
them have been just pretty incredible. And Miles Garrett had
I love it when a guy puts out a letter

(03:58):
or just some words, a couple of paragraphs when he's
requesting a trade. The first sentence, or usually the first
like I would say, seven or eight sentences, are like,
this place is meant everywhere. This is where my firstborn
son was born, took his first steps and called me daddy.
You the fans have been the heartbeat of not just

(04:19):
this team, but of my success of us as an organization.
You guys mean I've grown up as a man under
your watch. You just go on and on and on,
and then the last line is always with that being said,
I've officially requested to be traded from the Cleveland Browns,
come get me. Let's put in your offers now to

(04:42):
Andrew Berry, I'm ready for a new challenge. So never
fall to the player. Been there for a long time,
given them a lot, and it does feel like it's time.
When you look at Miles Garrett, he is just an
elite player, and really since twenty eighteen he has been
an All Pro every single year, first second team. Obviously
he won a Defensive Player of the Year a couple

(05:03):
of years ago. He's everything you want an edge rusher
in terms of size, the physical characteristics, the blue chip nature.
He's the number one overall pick, the speed, the athleticism,
the burst. I mean he's he's a pass rusher who
is made in a lab. And we argue a lot
on this show. Is obviously quarterback. If you can get

(05:23):
a starting quarterback, and definitely a star quarterback, they always
are number one on the hierarchy. Who's number two? You know?
Is it a left tackle? You could argue right tackle.
Is it just a tackle or a pass rusher. I
don't think there's any difference between the two. I would
have him. You know, two A and two B. Tell
me who the better prospect is? Right? If you tell me,

(05:44):
it's like a solid pass rusher, an elite tackle. I'll
take the offensive tackle. If you tell me it's Miles
Garrett and it's a solid starter, I'll take Miles Garrett.
Those two positions are a must. Ideally you get both
of them. You get a good tackle and you get
a star rusher, right, And that's what Miles Garrett is.
And I think sometimes when you've been in Cleveland, when
you've seen the dysfunction, and at the end of the day,

(06:04):
what Miles Garrett knows. They're stuck. Why Because Deshaun Watson
is an anchor on the franchise and it's something that
in you know, in his career, it's going to weigh
him down. He could have a thirty sax season. It
doesn't matter because they've guaranteed this guy so much money.
They guaranteed at the time, Miles Garrett a historical Hall,

(06:27):
you know what, it didn't matter. He produced, and he dominated,
and he became the defensive player of the year and
he Pro Bowls All Pros. Like that's what you want
when you pay a guy a premium, you want them
to respond and be the best player on the field.
And we see that around the NFL all the time, right.
The Minnesota Vikings gave Justin Jefferson all that money here
one it's like, jeez god, this guy's good. The Cowboys

(06:49):
gave Ceedee Lamb all that money, Like, jeez my god,
I want this guy on my team. And that's what
you want when you pay these guys the unlimited amount
of cash that they're now making because of the revenue
in the NFL. And Miles Garrett is everything you want
in a super high pick. He becomes a superstar player.
But when you're in a dysfunctional organization, these guys eventually,

(07:10):
even when they you know, money can buy loyalty, let's
face it, but there comes to a breaking point where
it's like this sucks. Now. Part of this is he
wants a new contract as well, and it's time to
pay him. So if you are going to trade for
Miles Garrett, you're then gonna double down more than likely
and give him, you know, one hundred and twenty to
one hundred and forty million dollars guaranteed. I actually don't

(07:30):
think it's that crazy to me. His historical comp I
kind of looked around. Free agency began in the early nineties,
and one of the big biggest free first free agents
and really a guy that changed the game was Reggie White. Now,
when Reggie White went to the Green Bay Packers, he
was older than Miles Garrett is today. Miles Garrett turned

(07:52):
twenty nine in December, so he will basically play the
majority of next season at twenty nine years old. Reggie
White during his Packer career was basically thirty one, thirty
two to thirty seven, thirty eight years old. So it
was like in his early to mid to late thirties
is when he played for the Green Bay Packers and
every single year he was a Pro Bowler and a
first or second team All Pro. And that's when Pro

(08:14):
Bowls matter, not when they just became the participation award
where it's like who's in this? You're like, oh yeah, Drake,
mac Jones, Trey Lance, like what is going? How is
this happening? It's like, no, that was a day. Like
when I was a kid, you made the Pro Bowl,
you were an elite players. Like NBA All Star Game,
same thing, right, And the NBA All Star Game still

(08:35):
is that the best players go. Now they may not
play and they definitely do not now, but the Pro
Bowl now you have no clue who is going to accept.
Most of them would rather go to Cancun with their
wife or girlfriend or just go play golf. But Reggie
White was signed and from thirty two to thirty eight
years old, for six years, he was worth every penny,
and he solidified his Hall of Fame career and obviously

(08:59):
was a huge, huge part of the Packers turning that
franchise around with Brett fav and Mike Holngngrint and winning
a Super Bowl and going to another. So I think
when you look at Miles Garrett, this is not one
of those Lucas situations where all these teams are like,
you know, guys, you could have called us, We'd have
offered you a shitload. We'd have offered you so much

(09:19):
it would have been hard to hang up the phone
even if you didn't, you know, you wanted Anthony Davis
that bat. You would have not slept well at night
with our offer on the table, right, And I think
that's what every team in the league is going to
call about Miles Garrett, every single one, and there are
going to be I would imagine ten to fifteen that

(09:40):
are going to be ultra aggressive. You're talking first round picks.
You're talking second round Picktu're talking players like willing to
play ball. And this isn't just playoff teams like it's
easy to go. Well, the Green Bay Packers or the
Washington Commanders. I think average to below average teams are
going to get involved because it's like, well, we give
you you can make a long list of the ability

(10:04):
to make a package to land this guy, and when
the dust settles, I would say minimum you're getting a one,
several twos, maybe a three, and some players. It is
going to blow your socks off, and more than likely
they're going to start the offer. You know, if you're
on the Cleveland side, is like multiple ones, multiple twos
and a player. Now it gets a little complicated because

(10:26):
of the money that you have to pay him and
his age. If this was a guy after his first
you know, aka's rookie contract, you know you'd be talking
about like three first round picks. But because you know
you're talking about eighth, ninth, tenth year guy going into
his thirties, you know, maybe you only get one one,
but to me, it's a ton of twos, threes, uh players.

(10:48):
You know, it wouldn't shock me at all they got
multiple ones and too and players. So the amount that
you're not only going to ask, the amount that you're
gonna end up getting is going to be a shitload.
It's a lot like real estate right certain markets, you
can start the bidding at whatever number, it's only gonna
go up because that is a desired neighborhood. And when

(11:09):
you talk about a pass rusher, you're talking about probably
you could argue the most desired pass rusher in the NFL.
I mean, honestly, his only negative is that he's almost thirty.
But if you look at it like Reggie White, you know,
the thing with Luca is like, yeah, we think he's fat.
That's I never want that to be a conversation with
my GM or my coach about my superstar player. Though

(11:32):
he's like the if he's fat, he's like the greatest
fat player I've ever seen. But like when you look
at Miles Garrett, no one worries like I wonder about
his conditioning. I remember a couple of years ago when
the highlights came out, he was playing like the YMCA
pickup basketball and it was like is that Lebron James
And it was Miles Garrett like dunking on people. I mean,
he looked like an NBA player, and Cleveland immediately came

(11:54):
out it was like, you cannot do that. Obviously they're
worried about him, like chattering a knee or an ankle,
But his highlights on the basketball court athletically look like
a high end NBA athlete, and he's a defensive end.
So like from a physicality standpoint, from a genetic standpoint,
I don't think anyone's worried, like I wonder if Miles
Garrett's gonna put on some weight as he gets olders.

(12:16):
The only thing you worry about with older players are
susceptibility to injuries, and to me, he looked like a
pretty durable player. And Reggie White clearly was looking at
his time his tenure in Green Bay from you know,
he basically turned thirty two in Green Bay through thirty eight,
was playing all the time, was not missing games. So
I don't know if you if you trade for Miles Garrett,

(12:38):
you're thinking he's gonna play for you till thirty eight.
But I think it's realistic to think I can get
four years out of a first team All Pro like
that's the level in which he gives me at that position.
So teams are gonna be very, very interested, and to me,
like the playoff teams, you know, it gets complicated, right
if you are the Lions, for example, you just a

(13:00):
lot of guys on your team. You just paid a
ton of guys on your team. In the first couple
of years, their salary cap number is a little lower
because you can finagle the books that way, but in
a couple of years it's all gonna hit. And you
also have a guy in Aiden Hutchinson, assuming that he
comes back healthy and he was just a broken leg,
like he's gonna need to get paid in a year.
So like to me, they were a team, like I'd

(13:21):
give two ones for him right now, and who knows,
maybe they do it. I think the Green Bay Packers
are a team. Speaking of Reggie White, who should be
all in on this guy. I see the Washington Commanders
mentioned a lot on the interweb, and I see both
sides of it. It's like, well, when you get Jayden Daniels,
you might as well double the bleep down. And when
you get Jayden Daniels, like this is part of like

(13:42):
hitting a quarterback, go all in now. The thing I
would say, is you know your your draft picks you
would still like to use, Like, if it's gonna cost
you two ones, you know you have a bunch of money.
Now you're not gonna be able to sign a guy
in free agency remotely as good as Miles Garrett. But
couldn't we utilize signing the best free agents and even

(14:04):
quote unquote overpaying and then also using our draft picks,
which we've proven to be pretty good at only through
a short period of time here, Like, I gotta be
pretty confident that I'm gonna nail some of those picks.
But these are conversations that you're gonna have long in heart,
Like if you're Cleveland, I don't think you're opposed to
trading them in the AFC if the offer is right,

(14:25):
but like, you're not trading them in your division. You're
not trading to the Baltimore Ravens. You're not trading them
to the can S Chiefs. You know, the Patriots are
a team that I see, you know mentioned a lot.
I think the problem for the shitty teams is I
don't think you can trade them with a straight face
to your fans without getting a first round pick in
twenty twenty five in this upcoming draft. And if you're

(14:47):
the Patriots, given how terrible you are, you have a
ton of money, but you are terrible, Like, I don't
think you can give the fourth pick form because you're
not You're not a player away from being a player
away from being three players away. But if you're Washington,
I think you go, well, couldn't we just buy some
free agents offensively, maybe a T Higgins, bring Zach Ertz back,

(15:08):
you know, draft a running back in the third round.
Let's just go all in for Miles Garrett. I think
you'd have to think long and hard. So to me, Washington, Detroit,
Green Bay, you know the Rams are always sniffing around.
I would say the Eagles as well. We know Howie's
relationship with Andrew Berry, so I understand Cleveland going, you

(15:31):
know what, we don't want to trade you. And that
seems like a consistent theme. There gets to a point
where you're in such a shitty position because of the
Deshaun Watson contract. You kind of have a chance to
reset your whole franchise. And it's not like you're trading
this guy after his rookie contract. He's given you defensive
player of the year, all these all pros like you

(15:51):
can still sell him really really high right in a
year or two if something gets weird, if you were
to get injured, his value could get cut in half
of them immediately. So, given your situation with the anchor
of Watson's contract, do you have this super high pick.
Maybe it's not the worst thing in the world to
just nuke this thing, so I Cleveland can say whatever

(16:16):
they want. My guess is that Miles Garrett ends up
getting traded before or right around free agency. This ain't
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Speaker 1 (18:05):
Some other stuff in the NFL Today, Florio reported that
the owners want to get this eighteen game schedule on
the books like happening in the next two to three years,
and they hope to get it solidified by the end
of twenty twenty five, so it's going to be a
huge push. I would imagine if some of these owners

(18:26):
meetings happened, that conversation is going to grow and grow
and grow. Now Goodell pushback and said that we haven't
had any serious conversations about that. I think it's an
easy thing to kind of lie about. Listen, we know
the eighteen game schedule is coming. I think the only
question is does it come in twenty twenty seven or

(18:46):
does it come in twenty and thirty. If I was
a betting man, the way the NFL operates, once they
put their mind to something, they usually get it. And
I also think their negotiation with the players is pretty easy.
It's more money for you, like it's just another check.
It just brings in more revenue. So I would guess
the latest was twenty five. The twenty twenty eight we

(19:09):
have an eighteen game schedule, you know, Gooddell says, like
and listen, I they're going to Australia in two years
for the first time they've been to Australia since nineteen
ninety nine, and that was a preseason game. All signs
point to it being the Eagles, who one of their
star players Jordan Malatta Australian guy, and and the Los

(19:32):
Angeles rams I do think. You know, one theory I
had with the NFL is this next whenever they get
into business in seven eight years to re up the
television deal. It's clear that TV is going to be
dramatically different. Just think about the way that we consume.
I know, for this, like I watch a lot of CBS,

(19:53):
ABC and NBC because I watch football and golf, right
and basketball, and I watch sports. But if I didn't,
I would even my YouTube TV. I would be much
more inclined to just watch Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, whatever
it may be, and just watch the shows that they

(20:14):
bring to the table. Because I think about when it's
not about me. When I get into my bed at
night and we go, let's watch something. We do not
go to YouTube TV to see what's on any of
the channels. Right, I wonder what's playing on ESPNA night.
I wonder what's on even just Bravo or whatever show
she would watch. We go to Netflix, we go to Hulu,

(20:35):
we go to Paramount Plus or Amazon Prime. Now those
take shows from some of those networks, obviously, but the
NFL's know, DEMI they see where all this is trending.
So part of going international because I keep going like
what's the point if they're not gonna move the Jags
over to London, Like, why are they so dead set
on doing this? Well, they want to continue to grow

(20:55):
the fan base because guess what when they sign they
do in the Netflix couple games right now on Christmas?
What about when they sign a package? So every week
two games on Sunday morning and afternoon are on Netflix. Well,
where can Netflix broadcast do all over the world? So
they would like people in the UK, they would like

(21:16):
people in Australia, they would like people in you name it, Brazil,
Southern America, in Asia to watch the games. So their
strategy again this is just an educated guess here. The
expansion of these games over there is just to build
the audience for the streamers. So when they send the

(21:37):
Giants and the Jacks, even when they send the shitty
games over the course of the years, that eventually win
Netflix or Apple or whoever gets these packages, and it's
no longer just on CBS like it is now that
those people over there can watch it. Why because they
have access to Netflix just like you and I do.
It's why Jake Paul and Mike Tyson did such massive numbers.

(22:00):
It wasn't just dudes in Texas and Los Angeles and
Seattle watching. It was a twenty eight year old dude
or a thirty eight year old dude or a forty
eight year old dude in fucking Australia, or or in
Germany or in San Sebastian, Spain, like I dropped out.
I've been there once. Pretty cool place. Highly recommend it.
But that my point is that I think that's what

(22:20):
they're doing here. It's not about putting teams over there.
It's about building the audience for the streamers. And that's
why he said he wants to start a flag football league.
That I just wrote, Lol, start a flag football league.
And maybe I'm underestimating it. I know a lot of
kids play flag football now. I mean flag football has
always been around, Like when I was in college, intermural
football was not tackle as flag was. To seeing Rogers

(22:44):
say the flag football thing, this has made me laugh.
He he hammered the Brady thing with Fox and the
Raiders is a non issue, and he was very impressed
with how Brady bounced it. I really don't think he cares.
The only way that I see it becoming an issue
is if other owners make it a big deal and

(23:05):
until they do that, like Roger doesn't care because you
get one of the most famous guys in league history
on your broadcast, which whether he's good or bad, it
doesn't matter, it's still positive for the league. He's not
that bad, but I mean he's watchable, and they clearly
just you know, I think you like having a good
relationship with your super superstar players. He claimed that the

(23:26):
chiefs officiating conversation is a ridiculous theory and things on
the internet can grow to a life of their own.
He's not wrong, but so yeah, you know Roger, he's
this is a big week for him. This is when
this is you know, in the business of the NFL,
they have a lot of people that spend a lot
of money and obviously the TV partners, you know, there's

(23:49):
a huge week for Fox, but also all their beer sponsors,
all the people that are a part of their operation
that spend a lot of money. For the individual teams,
this is the week when you bring them and their
executive team and the teams that work on the projects
for you, and you wine and dine them and they
get to enjoy and they get the VIP experience and

(24:09):
that's when you hear people say this is a corporate event.
That's what they mean as a corporate event, because the
corps lights, the bud lights, the verizons, the you fucking
name it, who spend millions of dollars and sign one
hundred million dollars long term deals with the league, Like
this is really about them. And then kind of the

(24:30):
two fan bases of the of the teams, but like
the number one goal for the league is to make
sure those people have a good time. Chip Kelly we
talked about it yesterday. I was a little befuddled, might
be the right word. Perplexed, just don't really see the fit.
I think it's a little weird with Pete and Chip

(24:52):
also was a little taken back. The Chip would keep
bouncing around, kind of like an NBA player. That's just
a mercenary. And then I I saw that Albert Breer
reported that he got six million dollars a year and
Chip Kelly is now the highest paid coordinator in the NFL.
People are gonna think I'm a hater, and there's nothing

(25:14):
else I can say to debunk that. But I don't
know how your take couldn't be that is absurd. That
is insanity. Vic Fangioe, who I think was the highest
paid coordinator before this, making a little over four million dollars,
I would say, Howie, listen, you're gonna have to talk
to Jeffrey for me because I can't coach Super Bowl

(25:37):
till I make more than Chip Kelly. Chip Kelly's worked
in the NFL for four seasons. One of them is
the worst season the history of the San Francisco forty
nine ers, like literally statistically the worst season in the
history of the franchise. The previous season in Philadelphia with
games left on the schedule, Big Dom had to escort

(25:57):
him out of the building. And I get that. He
just won national championship with Ohio State. Who has like
an unlimited great players, who has a receiver that we
all agree who's nineteen years old, would be I don't
know if he'd be the number one overall pick in
this draft A dual carter probably still would because the
defensive end, but this could be a top five pick.
They have multiple they have just star players everywhere, and yeah,

(26:18):
their offense decent. I saw him when he played the
Michigan Wolverines. Who who's their coordinator? Oh yeah, an NFL guy,
Wink Martindale beat the fuck out of him? How does
it make any sense? I don't get it. And the
other thing, clearly it's not like Chip just like I
really want to work in the NFL, right Because he's
making two and a half million dollars at Ohio State,
you know, the average coordinator like him, he's got, you know,

(26:40):
some leverage because if he makes okay, it's like, hey,
we'll pay you three three and a half million dollars.
In what world do you have to pay him six
million dollars? So it shows you like, did he really
want the job? Or did you just pay him a
three year contract worth eighteen million dollars? Like, yeah, I
can't turn that down. I just think I think it's crazy.
And I applauded the higher with Pete Carroll. Obviously I

(27:00):
love the John Spytech higher, but being forced to give
Chip Kelly the highest contract in the history of the NFL,
Like I saw Todd Munkin, who listen, we can nitpick
all we want in these playoff games? In what world?
Who just signed a new contract? Could Todd Munkin, as
an NFL coordinator has been doing it for a long
time make less money than Chip Kelly. I would imagine

(27:21):
a lot of owners are like, what are we doing here?
It's one thing when you give a guy like Spagnola
who's done it at the highest level, one you championships
and it's all It's clear, right because a lot of
coordinators in the NFL are head coaches, so they're in
a different bucket. But let's go Spags. If Chip Kelly's
were six, what spags worth twenty? I mean one of

(27:44):
Chip Kelly's flaws when he was in the NFL as
a head coach, last offensive coordinator, his teams didn't do
that well against physical defenses. They got tossed around. Why
it's a little soft. Now you can say the game
has changed a little bit since then. Not totally wrong,
and Chip has I would They continues to attempt to innovate.
But six million dollars. I feel like right now the

(28:07):
Raiders because they've made so much more money moving to Vegas.
They got this influx of cash with Brady and all
these venture capitalist guys. This is a place where coaches
go to rop them like Mark, you just how could
you go? Yeah, this is listen, I'm not here to
medal not here to medal. If you wanted to give
six million dollars to Spagnola, to Kevin O'Connell, to whoever

(28:28):
the brightest young coordinator is who's kicking ass taking names.
I could be convinced, but this guy is crazy. I mean,
it's insanity. I think Joe Burrow, speaking of money, I
think he's trying to kind of go like Lebron on
the Bengals. He gave He was interviewed the other day

(28:48):
on Series XM, and he basically said that I feel
like we can retain all of our star players I Jamar,
Chase t Higgins, and Trey Henderson. The problem is and
Duke Tobin and the Bengals ownership have talked about like
we can't pay six guys off top of the market money.
That's not really the way the business works. And they're

(29:09):
not totally wrong, and I understand where Joe Burrow is
coming from, like obviously Chase is going nowhere, but I
do not want to lose the other two guys. And
if you're Joe Burrow, you definitely don't want to lose
to t Higgins because that impacts you and you're no dummy,
you know how hard it is to find a guy
like Hendrickson. I think he's trying to do it, but
like you know, this is not the NBA, and this
is a situation where I don't know if it's gonna change.

(29:32):
You're dealing with an old, stubborn owner, like you're dealing
with a guy who it was very difficult for him
to change with you, and you are a quarterback and
it's clear how hard it is to find that position.
I think you'd got to listen. We'll find another T Higgins.
And I don't even know if he's totally wrong on
that because I saw a report today I think from
Jeremy Fowler, the T Higgins is gonna want thirty plus

(29:54):
million dollars a year. Well, if he wants thirty plus
million dollars a year, what's Jamar Chase gonna want fifty?
And I saw it last year like if forty nineers
could do it over, they just want to trade a
Brandon I before the draft, that would have been the
right move. So you got to be very careful with
paying your number two wide receiver or the guy giving
you number two production. But I do think with Hendrickson,

(30:15):
what are you gonna do? What the guy walk out
of the building, you'd be nuts. I think Joe Burrow
is starting to realize, like, guys, I see some of
these teams. I mean, I got the Raiders. The fucking
Raiders are giving Chip Kelly six million dollars a year
to call offense. We better figure out how to generate
some money here because it used to be like the
Raiders in the Bengals, poorest teams in the league. Well
they ain't the Raiders anymore. So, Mike brown Man, pressure

(30:39):
is on. I want to do something new here and
I want to welcome you to Chasing Challenges and it's
brought to you by my friends at Microsoft and in
the NFL. Just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles
is key to success. Microsoft empowers business decisions make business

(31:00):
decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management,
and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges into opportunities. In
this segment, we'll explore some of the biggest challenges being
faced in the NFL and how these teams are going
to overcome. Whatever the challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you
with the expertise to say bring it all. This week,

(31:23):
we're discussing the challenge faced by the Eagles and the Chiefs.
And the one thing was Super Bowl Week when I
was you know, when the Super Bowl came to San Francisco,
I was working in radio, so I was working downtown
San Francisco. I was immersed that week radio row and everything,

(31:43):
and I was doing stuff on local television. So I
was just seeing the players on Monday Tuesday all over
the city. And I remember not really seeing the Broncos.
I didn't see them anywhere. And I saw the Panthers everywhere.
Remember just running into players like on the corner of streets.
They're just enjoying the experience. It's like, made it to

(32:06):
the Super Bowl. What an incredible accomplishment. And I think
it's very very difficult for certain players, especially young players,
to not be I would say, overwhelmed by the experience. Now, Luckily,
both these teams, I mean, the Chiefs win it every year.
So the Mahomes, the Chris Jones, the Kelsey's, the McDuffie's,
I mean, they got even some of their younger players.

(32:28):
But what about like Jalen Carter, Xavier Worthy, the Eagles
new draft picks, Quinnon Mitchell, Right, I mean, these guys
even though these were blue chip first round players. Jalen
Carter's won an NCAA championship. I think he won two.
Xavier Worthy was just in the college football playoffs. They

(32:50):
have been to a high level of football with a
lot of hoopla around it, but there's nothing like this.
There's nothing like this week because it's two weeks and
you spend all week there and really Monday, you practice
a little bit and I'm recording this before the thing
tonight you go to the quote unquote Media Night, which
is you know, changed a little bit over the years,

(33:13):
but still just a just a lot of hooplah and
just a lot going on on that thing. And then
you get Tuesday off and you get moments to kind
of just do whatever you want to do. And this
is New Orleans, like there is a lot to do there,
and you got family, you got cousins, you got a
lot of people in your life, and you're gonna have
to lean if you're the Eagles, obviously, the coaches can

(33:37):
tell you whatever they want, and you're gonna need the
Lane Johnson's, the Brandon Grahams, you know those guys because
Kelsey and Fletcher coxs are gone now. You know, when
they made it last time, they had a really, really
veteran team. Now they're pretty dependent on some very young players, right,
I mean Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis, Mitchell, Cooper Dejen. I mean,

(33:57):
these are clearly elite players, but this week to focus
it on football, and as pat Riley says, make the
main thing the main thing, keep the main thing the
main It can be difficult put yourself in those shoes.
If you're Xavier worthy. It's easy for mahomes In, Travis
Kelcey and these guys are We are losing already legends.

(34:18):
I feel like everywhere like I'm in the Super Bowl,
like this is freaking sweet. Probably invite some of your
boys to fight your family whoever who wants to come,
let's row. So I think it's a big challenge just
to keep everyone focused. It's not easy on the coaches,
on the players, on the veteran guys. But at the

(34:40):
end of the day, like this is the pros and
as a player, like it is somewhat on you to
try to drown out the noise, kind of keep the
tunnel vision. It's much easier said than done. So very
very interested to see how you know the young players
like what the teams do to kind of keep those
guys locked in. So that's it for this week's chasing challenges.

(35:04):
Remember Microsoft's AI solution empower you to take bold steps
and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive
your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you
can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions, and
reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft dot com slash challengers to

(35:26):
learn something more. Okay, let's do a little middle cough
mail bag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the

(35:47):
Instagram fire in those dms. I actually just saw before
I hopped on that the Rams will try to trade
Cooper Cup this offseason, aka in the next month. Basically
at the combine, I think the problem and you see
this happen with a lot of older veteran players who

(36:09):
make a lot of money but no longer produce to
that salary. Is there not really a tradable player. And
this is a guy who's battled injuries, super high character,
hard worker, still blocks his ass off, but in terms
of he makes twenty million dollars next season and he's
just not a twenty million dollars player at this point.

(36:32):
It doesn't mean that he can't have a bounce back year.
But we see this song and dance every single offseason
like they're gonna have to cut them. Cooper Cups going
to be cut, and then you know he's gonna sign
for way less than twenty million dollars and someone's gonna
hope that they can catch lighting in a bottle. He
has a big season, he stays healthy, but based on

(36:53):
his salary, he just I don't see how he's a
tradable asset, even for teams like like the Patriots, who
are gonna want like the Jets. All these teams we
get new coaches, the Raiders that are gonna want like
high character, winning players, dudes that are about the right shit,

(37:15):
practice their ass off kind of set the tone. I
don't know if I can pay twenty million dollars for that,
So I think he's just gonna get cut now. Maybe
those teams can overpay him once he's released, But you know,
Cooper Cups the first of many guys coming down the
line here that are just not going to be on
their teams. Listen to the latest mail bag, Dune is Badass.

(37:36):
Definitely check it out. Actually might I'm flying to New
Orleans in the morning. Maybe I'll download that on on
the old iPad. I probably should read a book, you know,
I always tell myself I bring a book. I got
a book right now that's been in my kind of
laptop book bag carrying case thing you know that goes
on your shoulder that like mature adults are supposed to wear.

(37:58):
It basically just sits on my on my lower in
my office the whole time. But I've had this book
never split the difference. It's like a negotiating book in
there for like three years, and every time like this
is the time I'm going to redon the plane, and
then I just don't end up watching like four episodes
of some stupid show. Question for the mailbag. Every year
in the NFL things happen that are totally unexpected. Darnold

(38:19):
is good, Washington goes the NFC championship, Dallas sucks, the
Niners suck. In twenty twenty five, what are some crazy
things you could see happen that would blindside the NFL
fans and media would be a better question for July
and August, but wanted to put this on your radar.
I do think it's difficult to do this like in February,

(38:42):
because Cooper Cup's a good example. The amount of players
that get cut before free agency that are just big
names is pretty high. And then we will see massive trades,
right like who is going to trade for Miles Garrett?
Does he get traded? Like what happens? You know? And
then obviously the quarterbacks that get drafted and move teams.

(39:05):
So I hear what you're saying. I think it's just
way too early to even think about one thing. You know,
you learn following the league and working the league and
just talking about football NonStop. It's so cliche when coaches
say this is like every year is a new year.
Every team when the season starts is different from the
previous years. And they say that not because like yeah,

(39:27):
Mahomes Kelsey, like a lot of guys are saying, you
get a lot of turnover, you know, depending on how
good and bad your team is. I mean, you're getting fifteen,
twenty thirty percent. I mean some of these teams, I
mean the Jets, some of the bad teams, the Raiders,
they're gonna be massive, massive purgase. So I think It's
just really hard to do that right now, but I

(39:47):
appreciate it. We'll definitely we're gonna need some content in
the summer, so we will do that as well. But
a lot of people are asking me, you know, I'm
a big golf better you boy, just hit the Rory
bet over the weekend. You know, I haven't been. We
haven't been doing the Golo pod. We'll start that after
super Bowl week or within the next couple weeks for sure.

(40:08):
But who I'm gambling on, because I do gamble on golf.
I do like Scotti Scheffler this week now you get him,
he's like three and a half four to one on DraftKings.
Some other guys that I like is like top tens
and twenties. Tom Kim, younger guy who who's on Tiger's
team in the TGL. He's pretty electric, young kid, kind
of small, doesn't hit that long, is actually getting longer

(40:31):
in distance. He's a really good player, and to me,
he's kind of a bright lights. He's good in the
President's Cup like, I like him a lot. This weekend
Top twenty, top ten, if you want to sprinkle and
get aggressive, top five, top you know to win it.
But to me. Listen, Scotty Scheffers, odds are pretty bad.
He's won this tournament before. I play this course a lot.

(40:52):
It's Taylor made for him in pebble. He's coming off
ripping his hand open and he's still finished, like tied
for eighth or seventh. He'll be fine. So Tom, Tom,
Kim Thigala are a couple guys I like as top
tens and twenties had to download the redownload the Graham

(41:14):
after two years of not dming, you reemphasize your belief
on not taking a top wide receiver over the line
of scrimmage. I wholeheartedly agree playing armchair GM. When Pete
took Witherspoon at five over Carter, I agreed at the
time given the character. But is this just overthinking it.

(41:34):
If he had done that, we could have moved up
for Nicks the next year instead of taking Byron Murphy.
Murphy is good, but he's not Carter. Even if we
took Paris Johnson the year after we took Cross the
left tackle feels like the Hawks and john are not
emphasizing a need we get desperate four years good backers,

(41:54):
good secondary elite pass catchers, and back obviously need a
quarterback for the future, but it's so hard to get one.
Please get me help. Let me say this. I think
when you factor in character and you factor in off
the field stuff, that's the curveball. So like they took Witherspoon,
who went healthy. He's a really, really good player. I

(42:15):
can't fault you for Pete Carroll not being comfortable with
the player. He had taken flyers before on guys. You know,
Pete's pretty liberal when it comes to like judging people's character.
I mean, they have taken some serious flyers and some
of them worked, you know. I mean early on he
got Marshawn for a fourth that worked out really well

(42:39):
and it was good fit for him. But they've also
had some Percy Harvin's. They've had some remember Malik McDowell.
I mean you would because you're a fan, but very huge.
Red Flag was a bad situation. So I think Pete
Carroll understands how important drafting Jalen Carter, but it's like

(42:59):
he didn't trust the person, and given where their franchise was,
he didn't think they were equipped to handle it. I
think if it's Lob he brings him in with Richard
Truman and that crew. So I think if he had
passed on like Jalen, I don't think he passed on
Jalen Carter, if he's just a normal character guy, if
he hadn't been in a car accident where multiple people

(43:21):
died and left the scene and then had to leave
the combine to check himself into jail. You know, I
think I give you. I give Pete Carroll a pass
on that one mail back. Theoretically, if you were a
commissioner and you were able to cut the number of
NBA games in half and only a forty, do you
think that would solve a lot of the problems that

(43:42):
the NBA has players sitting out, not carrying games, feeling insignificant.
I just don't think you can really play that game.
We do that a lot with baseball and basketball. Their sports,
their sport like, you play a lot of games in
baseball and basketball, starting in college. In college basketball you
play two to three games a week. College baseball you

(44:05):
play Tuesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. You know, a huge part
of those sports you play a ton at a young age.
You know football. Everyone tries to mimic or copy football
in terms of the setup of the lack of games.
If football could play fifty games, they would, You just

(44:25):
physically can't. I mean, it's we're stretching at eighteen. So
I think we always do play less Major League Baseball games,
play less NBA games. I don't know if that's going
to change. I hear a lot of people go go
from eighty two to seventy, Okay, then guys are still
going to sit out. So I hear what you're saying,

(44:45):
but I think that's a little overrated. Longtime listener, in
a lifelong Notre Dame fan, we obviously had an incredible run,
but I can't help but notice that the Irish never
seem to have top tier, explosive white There are some
obvious outliers, but compared to other elite programs, we never

(45:05):
seem to land the big name. What will it take
to start bringing in those top tier guys? Should Notre
Dame focus more nil on whiteouts, or as Marcus Freeman,
build a strong enough culture to stay the course with
tough defense and incredibly good run game to winnati, who
are your outliers Golden Tate, Chase, Claypool. I think it's

(45:31):
difficult because you know, for the most part. I would say,
when you think Notre Dame, you don't think sweet wideouts
and sweet dbs, right, but you're able to get really
good defensive linemen in I think you have to look
at it from an academic standpoint. You have high academic standards.
So when Stanford was really good under Harbaugh and David Shaw,

(45:52):
they didn't have that many sweet wide receivers either. Doug Baldwin,
you know Sherman was a wide receiver, moved a corner.
But they won't exactly like Marcus Freeman's plan, get a
great quarterback, dominate the line of scrimmage, and be tougher.
So I think that's just kind of the way unless
you're gonna move like you have no like Ohio Sate.
It is no academic standards or LSU or Georgia to

(46:14):
get a player into school. If you're good enough, I'm
getting you into school, period point blank. In the story,
you guys have them, and if I was a fan,
I'd be like, can we throw them away for some players?
And clearly they don't. You know, when Brian Kelly said
that I'm leaving to go to LSU too, because I

(46:34):
think I can win a national championship there. He was
simply saying, the academic requirements are lower. That's all he
was saying. He can't say that out loud, but that's
what he was saying. I can get anyone I want
into school, and I couldn't do that Notre Dame. Which
how much longer are we even going to play this
game where school even factors in, it's probably coming to
an end. What team do you think would be ideal

(46:59):
for Belichick to return to the NFL? Personally, I think
it's the Bengals. Taylor might be on his way out
if the Bengals missed the playoffs next year, and Bill
has a history of doing more with less on special
teams in defense, since the Bengals are allergic to spending
big money on anyone not named Burrell and Chase, we'll
say no. You know my hot take is gonna be

(47:20):
I don't think Bill ever comes back. I think if
Bill have success this year, and success for Bill could
be I don't know, nine to three, but it just
gains momentum and it looks like he's got something there.
I think I could just see him doing that. His
kids there, his buddy Micha Lombardi's there. I just if
I was a betting man, I would bet on Bill

(47:42):
being there for three or four years. I really would.
I could be wrong, maybe I'm naive, maybe I'm ignorant.
But if it goes well, I could see Bill Belichick
being there. Now, what if it goes back? What if
he goes six and six? Is he still desirable? I
mean probably is, but there is a chance that his

(48:04):
Belichick's name diminishes a little bit if they were to
not have a good season. It's hard to even know,
Like I mean, I don't fall college football recruiting well enough,
and it's so hard to even tell because guys changed
rosters all the time, Like is team good? Who's his quarterback?
Like what? And who knows? I mean we'll find out springball,

(48:27):
And who ares coaches? Who are is coaches? They keep
pushing back on that. It's like, well, do you have
a staff? I know he's hired some guys. What does
it take for the Bills to fire McDermott next year?
I think Sean would have to pull like a Zach
Taylor and miss the playoffs. If they continue to be
the number two seed and make it the AFC championship game,

(48:50):
you're gonna fire the guy. I just don't see it happening.
They have the same season, they do, win the AFC
East with ease, and then rattle off a couple of
playoff victories. I know we act like it's devastating, but
he's losing to Mahomes. He's losing to Mahomes and Andy Reid.
It's like he's out coached. Of course he is. Andy
Reid's a better coach. Who's out coaching Andy Reid? Not

(49:11):
John Harball, Like, who's out coaching him? I don't see
anyone out coaching him. Maybe Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh
could in a playoff game if they had a good
enough team. But those guys are better than Sean McDermott.
It's like, and you're not getting either one of those guys.
They got jobs. So who are you hiring? Elevate Joe Brady,

(49:31):
the guy that was running quarterback sneaks in the line
of scrimmage. I just don't see your options. I really don't.
I have a question for the podcast, what are your
thoughts on the Cowboys hire of Schottenheimer. The Seahawks Adam
as an offensive coordinator for three years, and in my opinion,
he was terrible and doesn't seem like a player friendly
coach or a guy that is respected by players. It

(49:54):
just seems to me that his hire as a head
coach was a lack of options by an out of
touch owner who impulsively hired him. And since the Cowboys
blew a chance at good coaching by waiting, a good
coaching hier by waiting, why wouldn't Jerry have waited a
little longer to get Kellen Moore. I just think he
would have been a better fit for the Cowboys, having
experienced in the organization. The thing I'll say about the

(50:17):
players is a bunch of Cowboys showed up to his
press conference and they were all hugging him after, and
the main one being Dak. And it's pretty clear like
Dak is pretty highly respected in that organization. So I
don't know if I could agree with you on the
player standpoint. Now, I don't know anyone with the Cowboys,
so it's not like I'm speaking beside side information, just

(50:42):
based on what I've seen, But I think a big
reason that they hired him is they thought the players
really liked them. I think that was a driving force
is They felt like, obviously Jerry can control him, and
he's relatively cheaper, but like the players like him. I
don't think he's hired if Dak Prescott and the players

(51:02):
are not on board. But yeah, I mean it's it's
an underwhelming, kind of out of left field. If I
would have told you December first that Brian Schottenheimer is
going to be their next coach, I don't think anyone
would have believed you. How do you view Kingsbury as
a head coach in the next hiring cycle. As a
Cardinal fan, I felt he had restraints on fully running

(51:24):
the offense he is running now with the Commanders. He
also has more connections in the league now to build
a staff, as I felt his position coaches were weak
when he was with the Cards. Two as an NFL scout,
were you responsible or partially responsible for finding a diamond
in the rough? I think that's fair. Maybe Cliff has grown.

(51:45):
Maybe his knowledge of knowing guys in the NFL now
is much wider given his time spent as an NFL
coach and now as an assistant. He's just got a
better quarterback, so the offense looks better. For sure. He
had a really good year. I mean, he was definitely
one of the standout coordinators in the NFL, especially non

(52:08):
head coach coordinator, and most you know, so many of
the hot offensive coordinators are also head coaches, but of
just the pure offensive coordinators, he was easily one of
the best in the NFL. I think with the Internet,
the diamond and the rough thing is something like from
the sixties, the seventies, the eighties. I just think the

(52:30):
Internet and the technology now has kind of changed the game.
Like if you run a four or two at some
little pro day that one scout is at, that information
gets out, you know, and it gets every team has
access to that. If you lead Division three as like

(52:51):
the all time leading tackler, or you know, you have
a twenty five touchdown, there's just no way to hide.
I think that is a term that pretty outdated. I
think when you see guys drafted higher than other we
have a different grade on you. But I think it
is very very rare for a player to be drafted

(53:14):
that every team in the league does not have draft
grades on which to me, a diamond in the rough.
In like the eighties, there would be guys drafted that
other teams would have never heard of. That does not
happen anymore. So I guess it's a long way. I
think it's kind of over. I mean, look at college football.

(53:35):
Think it used to happen a lot in college football.
Now with the expansion of rivals in the internet, you know,
if you get one offer, even if you're not like
a Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State guy. What if I just
get offered from San Diego State, then other teams in
my conference pay attention, then they might offer you, and
then the teams on the lower end of the power

(53:58):
force are paying attention, like who's this guy? And it's
just a trickle of you know, down effect. So it's
like it's like a domino. And I think it's just
I think the world's changed with that, and I think
most people in the NFL would agree. There is really
no such thing as a diamond in the rough. Now
there is in the sense that we believed in this guy.

(54:18):
Everyone thought he was an undrafted free agent. They laughed
at us. We took him in the fifth round and
he became a tenuere starter like that happens. But I
don't think it happens if we took this guy in
the sixth round. Half the league was like, who the
fuck is Billy Middlecoff. They're like, oh, this guy, he's
playing at Arizona Tech. Like Arizona Tech, what division is that? Oh?

(54:39):
Division four? Where'd you find this guy? Oh? This couple
guys told me about him, Like those days are over.
Question for the mailbag with the allegations against Justin Tucker,
if the Ravens had won the AFC and we're preparing
for the Super Bowl, how do you think they would
handle this situation stand him down for the game, or

(55:04):
drag out the process and say they're doing an investigation
and let him play and deal with it in the offseason.
It's a good question. I mean, obviously it's a hypothetical
we don't know the answer to. And I mean, beside
the headlines, I haven't really paid that much attention to it.
I saw, you know, the allegations came out. Justin Tucker

(55:24):
came back harder, rebuttal, and then more allegations came. I
think your equity, you know, Justin Tucker has been on
the team for what a decade longer than that, so
his equity with Harbaugh, with the owner, with Dacosta's thirty
five years old. He joined the Ravens in twenty twelve,

(55:47):
so he's been on a team fourteen fifteen years. So
I would say those John Harbaugh, a former Special teams coach,
would have a pretty good feel for him as a
guy and the equity and listen, you know everything the
guy's doing outside the building, but you got a pretty
good idea, like all these teams have legit security and
they follow these guys and Ward gets out. So it's like,

(56:09):
do you trust him? And it's just a he said
she said? So there's no way, like you can prove
any of it. But if you have no other information
saying that he's guilty and he's telling you he's innocent,
and he's been on your team for well over a decade,
I would say he's one of the more definitive Special
Teams players of my lifetime. In terms of this guy

(56:30):
you can name like who's one of the great special
teams who are the best kickers you've ever seen? Like,
his name comes up pretty fast. So if they trust him,
which I don't, you know, your guests is good as mine.
What they actually feel about him, I clearly don't not
like him. I don't I don't know necessarily about this issue,
but my guess is he would play if he's taken

(56:50):
the stance of I've done nothing, and they they would
take his word for it would be my would be
my educated guess of following football. A lot of you
guys hit me with the wind on this the name
for the fans, and I was thinking about, you know

(57:11):
a lot of you guys are firing in the DMS,
like the Outlaws, the Outliers, the Click, the Posse, the
cough Squad, the cough crew, all sorts of stuff. The
coffers made me laugh. One I did not hate was crew,

(57:33):
my crew with a K. I do think it has
to be one word. It doesn't have to be football
related either, but I think it does have to pop
off the tongue. And I used the Jim Rome one
when I was young. The clones, it just the clones.
It just kind of works, you know. I think ending

(57:54):
with an S helps the clones. You know Portnoy called
the stooleis called it forever. I think you know some
of these like the punt, the punt team right or
the whatever. I think it's hard when it's like a statement.
This one's not terrible the mailman, but I do think

(58:17):
it has to I think when it ends in s
it's a little bit better. Don't hate the mailmen. I
do like the cough crew, or just the crew with
K you could make hatch anyone that knows. Like those
golfing hats that have like the letters k R e W.
I think that would actually look kind of sick. But yeah,

(58:37):
keep firing those in again, I'm crowdsourcing this, open to ideas,
open to a lot of different ideas. I do think
one word is is very important to get it to stick. Then,
like a statement like the punting unit. I just I

(58:57):
don't hate the idea like I know where I appreciate it.
Everyone firing in those ideas, I just don't think it
really works. Again, could be wrong. I don't pretend to
have all the answers. But yeah, I'm gonna go ahead
to have dinner. Everyone, have a great day, and we'll
talk soon. So you the volume