On this episode of 3 & Out, John Middlekauff continues to break down the blockbuster Myles Garrett trade and what it means for both the Los Angeles Rams and Cleveland Browns moving forward.
John explains why Rams GM Les Snead has never been afraid to take major swings, how that aggressive philosophy has shaped the franchise, and why adding a player of Garrett’s caliber fits perfectly with the Rams’ approach to team building.
On the other side of the deal, John examines why Browns GM Andrew Berry ultimately decided to pull the trigger. Was it about maximizing value, resetting the roster, or recognizing where the franchise stands? John breaks down the difficult decisions that front offices face when moving elite talent and what this trade says about Cleveland’s future.
To wrap things up, it’s the Middlekauff Mailbag, with John answering your questions and offering insight on the biggest stories across the NFL.
From front-office strategy to roster construction and the fallout from one of the biggest trades of the year, it’s all covered on this episode of 3 & Out.
Follow John on Twitter, and Instagram for the latest.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume, What is going on?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
My people, John Middlecoff three, and our podcast How are
we doing? Hopefully everyone's doing as well as Miles Garrett.
You had a big smile on today. I watched Andrew
Berry's press conference in Cleveland. I watched Lesnide McVeigh with
Miles Garrett today in Los Angeles, and yeah, I I
(00:36):
was planning on just doing a big mail bag, but
I was like, I I take you about twenty four
hours one of the biggest trades in NFL history. I'll
kind of rehash some stuff that I've been thinking about,
and then we'll go into the mail bag, which the
first four or five questions are heavily on this topic anyway.
I mean, it's gotta be one of the biggest. Didn't
see that one coming on June first, that we'll ever
(00:59):
get as long as I've been doing this. So and
I'm not mad at it. I mean, you're gonna give
me a trade like that when I need to put
together a podcast in June, I'm all for it. I
could use another one this week as well, so or
next actually save it next week, save it for next week.
But yeah, that's the game plan today. You guys know,
(01:19):
the Drill. If you listen on Collins Feed, make sure
you subscribe to three and Out. We're up on Netflix.
You can hit the alert you never miss an episode.
We got any content that doesn't make it onto the podcast,
I try to put up on the YouTube channel, so
you can go check that out as well. And let's
talk some Let's talk some Rams Browns. I want to
start with less sneed and just the Rams philosophical belief
(01:46):
on how to operate. And there are two types of
people that I really admire just personally professionally. And I've
said this forever with I mean, it's much more tangible
with athletes, but anyone that knows people that own businesses,
small businesses, medium sized businesses, whatever, and they get like
their sixties or seventies, and they still show up at
(02:06):
the office all the time, and they still want to
know what's going on and they're still heavily involved. It's like, bro,
you've made all the money, you do not need to
do this, And it's like kind of all they know,
and they just kind of like being in the in
the mix. They like doing deals. You know, Tom Brady
playing at forty four, forty five years old, it's like,
why are you doing this Aaron Rodgers this year? It's
(02:27):
so yeah, he's making twenty five million dollars, but you know,
twenty five million dollars is changing his life zero percent.
Unless he's blown a bunch of money that we don't
know about, it is going to have zero material impact
on the guy's life. He just likes playing ball. Proved
it last year when he played through a broken hand,
not making that much money relative to what he was
used to making. And I hope that about myself if
(02:50):
I'm ever lucky enough to be in a position where
it's like you don't have to work, It's like, no,
I like to grind. I like to do this. And
you watch all these people and you just like, I
want to be like that and keep that mindset as
I age and the other thing. And these are the
type people that I admire the most are people with
fucking balls, people with stones, people that aren't afraid to
(03:10):
step into the batter's box and take a big swing,
because you know what, in life, nothing is guaranteed landing
Miles Garrett. Sean McVay said it today guarantees you nothing.
He even used the example, do you guys know who
the betting favorite to win the Super Bowl last year
around this time of year was he said, no, you
guys don't, none of you remember I do. It was
(03:31):
the Baltimore Ravens and they were like almost four to one.
Guess what happened. They went eight nine. They missed the playoffs.
Now based on injuries going into the season, you know,
Meta Bouquet missed the miss the season. But no one
thought the Baltimore Ravens weren't gonna make the playoffs and
John Harball would get fired. There were a lot of
really really rich people in two thousand and six and
(03:53):
two thousand and seven who did not have much by
two thousand and nine. Things change fast. This life is
not guarantee, he'd on the field. In the business world, personally,
our own health, things change on a dime immediately. But
you can't live scared, you can't function scared and less snead.
(04:13):
I looked at it yesterday for Miles Garrett, Trent McDuffie,
and Matt Stafford. They have given a twenty two first
round pick. They've given a twenty three first round pick,
which was pick six. They gave a twenty six first
round pick for McDuffie. They'll give a twenty seven first
round pick for this Miles Garrett Tray. That's four first
round picks, a second, and a third. Oh and Jared
(04:36):
Goff who was the number one overall pick, who's made
Pro Bowl since he's been in Detroit, and the defensive
rookie of the year's made back to back Pro Bowls,
including those picks for those three players, like, he is
giving up a lot to get a lot, but he
is not afraid to do that. And I think a
lot of people. I remember when I worked for a
short period of time in Corporate America. I was around
(04:59):
all these like managers who were making I mean at
the time it would have been two hundred and fifty
three hundred and four hundred grand, you know, running these
radio stations. And they never wanted upset the Apple card.
They never wanted to piss anyone off below them or
above them. They just kind of wanted to maintain the
status quo so that money kept coming in. I remember
(05:19):
being around them, and I had been in football my
entire professional career up until that point, thinking these guys
are fucking losers, like this is not working. But they
never wanted to change anything, because if they make a change,
then the bulls eyes on them and they could lose
that precious job, which ironically most of them blown out
since because the industry dramatically changed. And I'm sure many
(05:40):
of you guys, especially younger people, when you start coming up,
you get in these corporate situations. People want to hold on.
They don't want to give up because if they do
and they make a change, then everyone's looking at them.
It's easy to just maintain what is kind of working,
and nothing is kind of working like what's happening with
the Rams. They've been in the playoffs the last couple
(06:03):
of years. They've been at player two away from last
year being in the super Bowl, the previous year playing
the Commanders in the Championship Game where they would have
been favored. I mean, they've been really, really close. You
don't need to do anything, and they already made a
big splash this offseason and getting Trent McDuffie. Hell, I
even go back to the Ty Simpson thing. I don't
(06:23):
agree with the pick. I don't see the value there.
I don't think he's a long term starter in the
NFL based on what I watched this year at Alabama.
I also think the risk profile of a guy that
hasn't started that much, it's too risky to use that
value of a pick on a guy with that many
question marks. But Lesnie doesn't operate that way. He sees
enough value there to say fuck it, take a swing
(06:46):
and the other thing. And a lot of you guys
listening that are in sales, and we got the question
recently on a mail bag about a dating opportunity in
the office and the risk reward. And I was talking
to my wife about that question since and she knows
a lot of people that got married. You know, she
worked in corporate America before she got involved in real estate,
(07:10):
and she's hold multiple houses to different couples that met
through their job in the corporate setting in which she worked.
And I think sometimes when you are in a position
to make a decision and you get told or want
(07:32):
something because that's what the rams wanted, right, they wanted
Miles Garrett, they heard no. How many people that are
happily married with children that go on to live long
lives were maybe told no the first time that they
tried to get a date with their wife. How many
people in sales that end up making the biggest sale
of their career, don't get an email back the first
(07:54):
time they reach out to that potential client. They don't
get a callback, they get told no, we're not interested.
That's part of life and less sneed. And Andrew Berry
talked about this. They have been on this for years
and they have heard no over and over and over.
The majority of people say, okay, good, I'll just move on.
(08:17):
I actually saw this clip on Instagram. It was one
of those classic like reels of a podcast mixed up
and it was a guy talking like why in a
lot of different companies, salespeople make a lot more money
than the majority of people. Besides like the CEO and
maybe the CFO. Why Because they generate the most money,
they also eat the most shit. It's not an easy gig.
(08:41):
Most people do not have the mental fortitude or thick
skin to handle it. Cause even if you're a successful guy,
you're getting told no constantly. And part of being a
deal maker in any line of work and specifically pro
sports is like you're gonna be on the wrong end
of it a lot, and you know when you try
(09:02):
to make some of these deals happen. There's a reason
that all these gms say, listen, there's a lot of
discussions that don't lead to anything. There are a lot
of discussions that I reach out and I'm told that
ain't happening. Welcome to your gig. That's what you're paid
to do. And the one thing less Neat is excellent
about is being relentless of his pursuit of the things
(09:22):
he wants. And he's obviously willing to quote unquote overpay
or pay a premium to get what he wants. And
a lot of people, whether it's in football, whether it's
in the jobs you guys have, are just not because
the risk, Like I said, just go back. I remember
graduating college into the financial great financial crisis. I've met
(09:44):
so many people since that were telling me about like
how great things were in especially anyone involved in real
estate in like four h five oh six, and then
things came to a screeching halt. Well, if you were
in it five and o six, you didn't see that
thing coming, or you would have saved and you would
have got out. But everyone worked right into it and
(10:04):
got blown the fuck up. And I think less Seed
is just unafraid to get blown up because it would
have been easy to not do this. He already had
a young, ascending player that does not need to get
paid for multiple years. Now. Obviously this guy is better,
but he did not need to make this deal because
(10:25):
when you do this, it puts even more pressure on you.
Not only is everyone saying they're the betting favorite, but
how do you not win the Super Bowl. No one's
ever had the MVP and the reigning defensive Player of
the Year on the same team. It's unheard of, right,
It's I remember being a kid like Packers they had
Reggie White and Brettfarv even a couple of years before
(10:48):
Steve we forty nine Ers almost said we it was
we back then signed Dean Sanders with Steve Young, MVP
of the League, Best defensive Player Boom super Bowl. I mean,
if you have an MVP int it and a dominant
defensive player likes it becomes a little like basketball. If
you have the impact of those two guys, it's gonna
(11:08):
be hard to not be elite. And the thing with football, though,
is there's no guarantee. We've seen a lot of great
teams on paper not come to fruition. But I have
the utmost respect even if I don't agree with every
individual move over the course of the last five six years.
Some of them are easy, right. I mean, I do
(11:29):
not think they regret the Lions Stafford trade obviously, but
the Lions don't regret that trade either. And the McDuffie
trade's an easy one as well. If you're willing to
pay him pick twenty nine here give me a pro
Bowl corner. I think this one though, it's like, this
puts even more pressure on you. And the one thing
this organization does not afraid of is the spotlight in
(11:54):
the pressure. And I do think if you go back
a couple of years, this has been a pretty dramatic shift.
They got out bid once upon a time for Christian
McCaffrey because they were offering a third and fourth of
the nine ers throwing a second round pick. And I
just think this version of them is not getting out
bid for anything. And this version of them is not
(12:15):
just not calling you back because you say no. And
let's face it, a lot of people do not call
back when they hear now and then a year later,
five years later, they were just bitching a moaning and
playing the victim and complaining. It's like, yeah, life is
not that complicated. Usually successful people all have similar qualities
and McVeigh unless the tandem of willingness to the aggression
(12:41):
take big swings is very, very admirable. And speaking to
Andrew Berry, I do think I do believe him. When
they kept asking him like, why didn't you shop him,
He's like, because we were never shopping him. They just
kept calling us and asking for the player and offering
(13:05):
more and more and more, and then they got to
a point when they included Jared Vers that we couldn't
say no. The analogy that everyone uses, and I've used
it before, is like if someone knocks on your door
and offers you twenty percent more than your house is worth. Well,
if the interest rates are high and you don't have
anywhere to move and you like your house, it ain't
worth it, even if you could make a little profit.
(13:27):
Such a pain in the ass to move. But if
I knock on your door and double your home's value,
you're gonna think long and hard about it. If I
triple it, you'd be crazy to not have the moving
trucks there two days later. And I think sometimes you
get offered something that you go, well, we're going nowhere.
(13:48):
This guy still has a ton of value that if
we did shop him and he brought up a good point,
we were only going to trade him if we hit
a couple factors draft compensation. Obviously we were going to
need a young player back, and there'll probably be other
teams that could offer young, impactful players. But the unique
part about this deal is they were offering a young,
(14:11):
ascending player that plays his position. So if I just
remove Miles Garrett and someone offered me the equivalent of
verse at tight end, at wide, receiver, at corner or whatever,
I have a massive, massive hole at pass rusher, well
Jared versus not Miles Garrett. But he is a pro
Bowl to me Erro pointing up guy that should be
(14:32):
a double digit sack player for the next several years.
And I think they feel pretty good about it. And
they get a guy that's also on a cost control deal,
so an Miles gets, you know, to go to a
team that has the expectations that you feel good about.
You're not screwing a guy that has kind of been
one of the bright spots for a pretty embarrassing operation.
(14:56):
And you watch Andrew Berry and I have been very
critical because, uh, I do think sometimes like the analytically
driven general managers and sports always get a longer rope
with criticism when it comes to the media because the
media sees like they're equal in terms of intellectual capacity.
(15:18):
Andrew Berry now played college football at the in the
IVY League. I think he knows players based on his
last couple of years of doing deals. I think he's
done a really, really good job. And I've always defended him.
And I don't have inside information on this about the
Deshaun Watson thing, I'm putting that one on the owner.
(15:39):
I'm going to defend him. On the Dylan Gabriel thing.
That felt like a heavy Stefanski pick because I just
watched Stefanski sign toa I've always been even more critical
of Stefanski, who I clearly don't think those quarterbacks very
well at all. Like he did have Baker Mayfield that
he could have worked with, couldn't now maybe Baker was
a little immature, but still like it's kind of on you,
(16:02):
you know, it's like, that's your gig. And then you
wanted Dylan Gabriel, like a guy that most people would
have had as an undrafted free agent and clearly is
not an NFL quarterback. And then you immediately go to Tua.
I mean, come on, man, like, not everyone's gonna be
Patrick Mahomes, but you gotta look through a different lens.
And I watch Andrew Berry doing these deals like I
(16:25):
think he knows what he's doing. Now. From a coaching standpoint,
it's hard to get people to take their job. I mean,
years ago people thought Cassarrio was crazy. Well, no one
would take the Houston Texans job. That's why they had
to sign David Kelly. That's why they went with Lovey Smith,
who was a defensive coordinator, because it was toxic, and
then it became non toxic and they could get a
real coach. And I do think the Browns are kind
(16:48):
of laying that foundation of a lot of really good players,
a lot of young ascending players. They're just gonna have
to figure out the coach in the quarterback and maybe
Bunkin is that guy. I would probably bet against it,
but I do think their GM has proven to being really,
really dynamic. Today's show is brought to you by our
(17:15):
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(17:37):
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I believe it's the next time. And obviously, if you're
gonna bet them to win the series, it's hard to
bet against Jalen Brunson being the MVP. We have had
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(17:59):
I remember when on dra Guidala won it. I think,
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safe bet is Brunson. But they got a lot of
(18:19):
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I think this is New York's time. So same game parlays.
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(18:39):
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Let's just do some mailback questions at John Middlecoff at
John Middlecoff as the Instagram fire in those DMS questions
(19:23):
answered here on the show. Got a lot DMS blew
up yesterday. Nothing like a trade to get everyone fired up.
It's gonna be pretty heavy Browns rams questions here early
Browns fan I cannot believe. And I didn't realize this.
I saw this DM earlier in the day, and then
I watched Barry's press conference. The vibe in Cleveland, I
(19:46):
from maybe on the reddit boards, the fan message boards online,
is not positive. I cannot believe people are so upset
about Miles and the trade. I understand it's difficult to
trade away the best defensive player in football, but he's thirty,
he's a depreciating asset, and we are not in a
position to win a Super Bowl. We have a lot
of young talent. It makes so much sense to get
(20:07):
a great young player and plenty of AMMO to potentially
trade up in future drafts. After this move and the
last two drafts the Browns have had, I'm starting to
think Barry knows what he's doing. Am I crazy for
thinking that? After being so upset with Deshaun Watson as well,
many failed draft picks like Gabriel Willis, etc. Uh. I
(20:28):
do think this is the last year, like every year
that goes by with an aging player. I mean Miles
going into year ten. I don't think he's a depreciat
eighting asset. Yet he's at twenty five sacks, so his
asset value is still really strong. I thought they should
have traded him last year when he demanded the trade,
and as Andrew Barry said, we just know he kept
(20:50):
asking or people kept asking, like, what did you say
last year when they'd call you about Miles. It's like
I would tell them, no, this wasn't like we're this
isn't a Yannis situation. This also is like a Luca
situation where we couldn't stand the guy and we wanted
to get rid of him. And I traded him too,
My buddy. This was one team being relentless in their
pursuit of the asset and refusing to take no for
(21:11):
an answer and finally meeting our parameters and make it
worth it. So I would say the Travis Hunter trade
and the Miles Garrett trade which brought you two defensive
linemen who should both be multi year Pro bowlers moving forward,
for the Browns in Mason Graham and Jared Verse, Qushun Jenkins,
(21:32):
who should be a starting running back. And we'll see
what happens with these future picks. But I am in
complete agreement with the UH that Andrew Berry is doing
a good job. I am, and I can't hate this
trade at all. I thought they should have traded him
last year, But would I rather have Like, think about this,
(21:57):
Let's say the Rams would have traded pick third team
before the draft, and next year's the same package, but
instead of Jared Verse pick thirteen, would I rather have
Ruben Bain or Jared Verse? I think Jason Light would
be the first to tell you, I hope Ruben Bain
becomes Jared Verse, like he's in theory, He's kind of
(22:18):
similar type player. But like, if Ruben Bain becomes Jared Verse,
the Bucks nailed that fucking pick. So you would rather
have Jared Verse than Ruben Bay. So I think people
are conflating the value of Verse. His value is really
really high. I said it yesterday. I think they could
(22:41):
have got if they would have put Verse on the
trading block, which he clearly wasn't he just in the
negotiations they had to include him. That would the Would
the Cincinnati Bengals rather have had Dexter Lawrence coming off
of down years, had some injuries. Now Dexter's proven to
be a more dominant player than Verse when he's been
right or a guy who's making way less money cost controlled.
(23:05):
You don't need to give a contract extension to in
Jared Verse. I think it's fair to say when you
factor an age in the contract, they might've rather had
Jared Verse, but they that would have been a discussion.
They would have given picked ten Like to me, that
would have been a heavy discussion in their room. Would
you say the Rams teams that Stafford has been on
(23:26):
are quote super teams. Why doesn't this seem to impact
his image the way it does Purty hurts, Goth, etc. Well,
I think he Stafford already established himself for well over
a decade in Detroit. Right, really good player. No one
wins on shitty organizations. It doesn't happen. Larry Fitzgerald, who's
(23:46):
father just passed rip, is a great example. He's one
of the great players of all time. When he got
his couple times to play with good teams, he was
clearly like one of the greatest playoff players we'd ever see.
But he played for the Cardinals and the majority of
the time they sucked. This is not basketball where if
I'm Jokic, if I'm Luca, if I'm Lebron, if I'm Curry,
(24:10):
even if my team kind of sucks, if I'm in
my prime, we're gonna be somewhat competitive and like be
a playoff team. It might might be the eight seed,
but we're gonna be competitive in football, even if you're
the quarterback. If your organization blows as the Lions did.
I mean, they were the running joke in the league.
(24:31):
You can't overcome it. And honestly, last year they didn't
have Trent McDuffie or Miles Garrett and Stafford won the MVP.
Puka was a fifth round pick. A lot of people
could add DeVante. You know, he led the league in touchdowns,
but it wasn't like people were knocking down the doors
to give him a couple of years forty million dollars
like the Rams did. It's not like they gave him
(24:51):
one hundred and fifty million dollars. So, I this is
a super team, but the last couple of years were
not super teams. They were really defined by verse Fisk young.
All these young players that Less had just drafted. Now,
all those guys probably gonna get long term contracts. But
(25:12):
like two years ago when they went toe to toe
with the Eagles, or even last year when they're going
toe totoe with Seattle, I don't think you would call
that a superteam this year is for sure. You crush
Barry and Stefanski for years. Should they really get credit
for trading an all time talent? Like do the Raiders
get credit for taking Mendoza or the Colts for taking Luck?
(25:33):
Seems like it's not hard to be a good GM
when you're handed an all time talent. You don't get
any credit for taking Andrew Luck. Grigson used to get
mad at me because I used to shit on his
tenure with the Colts. It's like, you just don't get
credit for drafting Andrew Luck. You know, It's like that's
my mom would have done that. The Mendoza thing, you
probably don't get credit for that either. You get credit
(25:55):
for everything else. You get credit for Ashon Gent, you know,
whoever else you drafted over these couple of years, or
Linderbaum or whatever. But I'm with you you don't now
if Mendoza in Luck, you can't really compare. I mean,
Luck was dramatically better coming out of college. But I
hear what you're saying. You don't like, does Ryan Poles
(26:16):
get credit for Kayleb Williams. I think where you deserve
credit is I think the owner is very involved in
Cleveland clearly, And when you hear them continuously say one
helmet guy, one helmet guy, one helmet guy, I think
part of the reason they say that is, like, what
else do you really have to hang your hat on?
(26:37):
You know, you're watching Shador complete thirty percent of his
passes or Deshaun Watson limp around out there. It's not
like an enjoyable team to watch. But you have this
one guy who is like Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor twenty
five sacks, but like every single year you just watch
them play and when he's on, he's fun player to watch.
And I just think it's very difficult to do that,
(27:00):
and when you do that, you have to capitalize, and
I just think they did. So you don't get credit
for drafting the player. I don't think Andrew Berry drafted him,
did he? But you get credit for changing your mind
and realizing what's best for the organization, which is ultimately
your job, unless and Andrew are coming from different areas, right,
(27:24):
And I think some people I wouldn't even say greedy,
but in the back of their head it's like, one
day we could trade this guy. Well, in two years,
the value might be really shitty. He might be a
shell of himself, and you wasted your opportunity to capitalize
on the investment or capitalize on the asset. And I
(27:45):
think that they were open to it, and they kept
working the Rams, working the Rams like I don't. I
don't think this was an easy deal for the Rams
to do. I'm a lifelong Rams fan, dating back to
Saint Louis, and I have friends acting like Verse is
the next TJ. Watt. There's no question he's been highly productive,
but given his relatively limited pass rush arsenal, I think
(28:09):
his sack ceiling is probably around twelve. I would tend
to agree. I've been trying to explain to my friends
that his most likely outcome is something closer to Brandon Graham.
Not because I think Verse has the same pass rush
limitations it's like a scout here, but because so much
(28:29):
of what makes both players valuable does not necessarily show
up in the sackclum The impact games for pressures, run defense,
set in the edge, and constantly winning reps even if
the box score does not always reflect it. Graham was
extremely productive and a fantastic edge defender throughout his career.
Even if he never put up the Gotti sack totals,
his overall impact was much greater than his raw sacks.
(28:51):
A huge part of football. Winning teams have winning players
that don't necessarily show up in the box score every
single week. A big reason that Dexter Lawrence went for
pick ten is not because he's one day going to
get the Bengals fifteen sacks. It's because when he's right
for thirty forty snaps during that game, he is an
(29:14):
unmovable object and obviously has pass rush ability too. But
when he's right, his skills don't just light up the
box score like maybe a TJ. Water and Miles Garrett.
No different than some players that are great, you know,
receivers that block in the passing game or running backs
that are great in pass protection. Football is a team game.
(29:37):
This isn't golf, this isn't tennis. You know you have
to do things that do not like certain guys certain games.
Part of AJ Brown's value is he becomes a threat
even when he's not targeted. You have to allocate energy, effort,
and resources on his side of the field. So it
(29:58):
takes a lot of game planning, takes a lot of
the player's attention. Everyone on that sideline is focused on him,
and if he runs, routes hard, and plays hard, even
if he only gets three or four catches, he can
change the game. Tyreek Hill, Randy Moss, any big time
threat offensively or defensively like Miles Garrett, can have a
great game and not get a sack because he's causing
(30:20):
so much attention he can free up for everyone else.
So I'm with you. And the other thing is you
don't get much credit for because you get paid to
rush the passer. Being a good run defender really matters.
It really does. When I try to run your way
and I cannot run your way because you set the
edge and you set the tone of stoning whoever is
(30:41):
at the line of scrimmage, that matters. That's why the
Texans defense is so good because Will Anderson and daneil Hunter.
It ain't just about third and ten. First and ten,
you better buckle the fuck up because those guys are
coming and if you want to double team them, have
at it. It's on like Donkey Kong. They want it.
And that's part of being a good defensive lineman is
(31:02):
being a two way player. There are a lot of
guys that can just rush the passer on third and
twelve that there are a ton of guys throughout the
league that don't start they can do that. Guys go
on to have long careers that were later drafted picks
because they're great pass rushers. But it's hard to put
them on the field on first and ten against the
Eagles because like, we're just gonna run at you every
single play. And that's where versus good and that that matters,
(31:25):
especially in a division that gets freezing cold. You know,
the Ravens and the Steelers. I mean, the Steelers will
see what their offense looks like under McCarthy, but the
Ravens definitely want to run the ball. Uh. I guess
the big too. I got a hypothetical question on the
Garrett trade. What if Verse decided to not show up
(31:46):
in Cleveland. If I'm Verse, I think I'd be a
bit pissed. Going from LA to Cleveland is a bit wild?
Is this even a possibility? I mean, technically you could
no show, but like once this season starts, you get
paid weekly, So why would you give up that money?
And if you don't show up to the voluntary or
(32:09):
excuse me, the mandatory ota, which I think for Cleveland's
next week maybe it's in two weeks, you would get
fined and give up one hundred grand. I don't see
financially why you would do that. There is no debating
that going from the Rams to Cleveland would suck. For
two years, Jared Versus played in huge games, playoffs and
(32:30):
non playoffs. All of his games have mattered. The Browns
haven't played in a meaningful game in years, so and
I understand he's from there. I think Andrew Barry said
his sister still lives in Dayton, Ohio. But it's part
of being a pro athlete. John Hamm once famously said,
that's what the money's for. You know, we can't get traded.
(32:54):
I guess some of us technically potentially could. I guess,
depending on exactly what you do. If a company buys
your company, maybe things change dramatically, but they're part of
being an athlete. And if you don't have a no
trade clause, which no rookie kind of rookie contracts, going
to this is a possibility, you know. And it goes
the other way too. So some guys are on shitty
(33:16):
teams and it's it's why you always play hard, because
people are gonna watch you. I would say the one
thing if I was Jared Verse that would give me
it wouldn't piss me off too much. I remember Kevin
Durant did he get traded to the Suns and was
mad about the package. He thought the package should have
(33:37):
been more. It's like, bro, you're always worried about the
weirdest shit. But if you're Jared Verse, you knew that
you were the reason that they could trade for one
of the greatest players in the history of the game.
So this team doesn't like me, they love me. So
if I keep doing what I'm doing, I'm going to
get one hundred and fifty million dollars. That's that's the
(34:00):
way you'd have to shift your mind. I also think
once you've been in the league a couple of years,
wasn't he with the Rams when they got rid of
Cooper Cup like you saw that Cooper Cup was the
Super Bowl MVP, like team captain, heartbeat of the squad,
and they just cut. It's part of the business you're in,
(34:22):
and the faster you kind of become aware of it,
even if you are. I mean, I'm sure he didn't
see this coming, because nobody did. Hurt. On another pot,
the Browns won't have the fifth year option on Jared Verse.
When teams trade away a first round pick, does the
gaining team still have the fifth round option? That would
be news to me. I would when you get traded,
(34:45):
you still have the ability on their rookie contract, unless
there's some stipulation that I don't know about. In this scenario,
the Browns would have access to the fifth year option,
which they would probably be planning on picking up after
this season. But typically when you remember, trying to think
of a recent example, Sam Darnold was traded to the
(35:08):
Panthers from the Jets and they picked up his fifth
year option. The Panthers did, and then everyone thought that
they regretted it, so things changed fast. Here's a non
(35:31):
rams question. Over the last couple of years in Houston,
they've been reshaping the line and one of the most
common themes amongst the Beat reporters have been there trying
to change the culture of the unit. I believe trying
to shift that culture was a big reason they got
rid of Tunzel along with the big Capit what all
goes into changing culture in a specific unit. Is this
(35:52):
something you were a part of in Philly? How is
it different than doing it for the whole team. I
think the issue for them with Tunzel is he needed
a new contract, which I think Cassario and that group
was hesitant to give. I think they saw where the
roster was headed, who they wanted to invest resources in,
(36:13):
and Laramie still had a ton of value, and they punted.
I think they answer some questions about like Laramie's practice
habits just in terms of like he just didn't practice
all the time. And I think when your best player
doesn't practice all the time, it could be difficult. But
I think part of setting the tone for your offensive
(36:36):
line unit is whoever your best offensive lineman is, if
they set the standard of wark, ethic, of focus of
practice habits. I'd argue though, like I saw the forty
nine ers like Trent Williams, and part of it is
just old like he doesn't practice that much. So I
to me, it's on the old line coach who Cole
(36:58):
Popovich is their O line coach, who was my first
year as a JA at President State, was our starting
left or right guard. I think he got hurt Week
one and never played again. He's been into coaching now
for years. He coached for Belichick. But I've always believed
culture is the people, Like why did New England have
such a great culture because it started with Tom and
(37:22):
most of the guys that they surrounded him with, and
early on he was surrounded with are the right type guys. Rabel, Bruski,
Rodney Harrison, Logan, Mankins to Edelman to mccordy to Gronk.
I mean, these are serious motherfuckers when it comes to football.
So but you can also like the Chiefs didn't trade
(37:46):
Trent McDuffie because they didn't like Trent McDuffie. In terms
of the culture, you also have to make business decisions,
like you can't sign everybody, and at certain positions the
numbers are huge, so they're looking at it when they trade.
Tunzel was like, well, one day we're gonna have to
pay the quarterback. Potentially will Anderson's gonna cost a lot,
he did. We want to keep the Neil Hunter around.
(38:08):
You just have to make tough decisions. I just think
some decisions are just difficult and then you factor in everything. Right,
in a perfect world, would they just have Lermy Tunzel
on the team with a bunch of other new guys
who are good. Yeah, but it's hard to pull that off.
So I you remember the Chiefs traded Joe Tuney to
(38:29):
the Bears. Andy Reid like the next day was like,
he's one of, if not my favorite players I've ever coached.
But it's a business and you gotta, you know, mess
with a cap. And the reality is is guys like him,
you know, certain positions make a ton of money now.
Even guards and centers now make twenty million dollars a year.
Tunzel's making what thirty thirty five million dollars a year. Uh,
(38:52):
just listen to you discuss Claude lemwe tragedy, and you
made a comment that I was hoping you could elaborate
more on you mention you and your wife discuss your
son never having grandpas. To quickly sum up my situation,
I lost my father when I was forty one, years
old to suicide. Fast forward six years later, I'm happily married.
(39:13):
The discussion of kids comes up regularly, knowing how important
grandpa's were for me growing up. It's always in the
back of my mind knowing any potential children I may
have would be born without their grandpa's. How do you
and your wife discuss and navigate the situation with your
own child. Well, he doesn't speak English yet, so we
(39:35):
haven't broached any subjects, let alone that one. I you know,
I'm sure you could. Just there's going to come a
time when he gets friends, and he is friends, they
go to his grandparents' house, and he'll never have that opportunity.
I guess we have like my mom's alive. Her mom's alive,
so like we can go to our our grandparents' house
(39:58):
for him. But I don't know. I mean, I obviously
obviously you guys didn't know me when I was a kid.
But my mom's dad died when I was probably thirteen
fourteen years old, maybe junior high. I used to go
over to their house all the time. They lived down
the street from me and my dad's dad, Woody, who
(40:21):
lived in the Bay Area. My entire life, I was
around him all the time. You'd come to my house
a lot, we'd go to his house. He lived with
my parents at the latter stages of his life. He
lived till his mid nineties. Hopefully I get those genetics.
But he had great hair actually, so I don't know.
I mean, there's just you just sometimes you got to
(40:44):
play the cards you're delt, you know. I mean, there's
not going to be as simple. You just try to
I'm sure. I mean, sometimes we talk about some of
the lessons that her dad, who was in the FBI
for a long time, former marine, kind of taught her
and her brother. Things that she mentioned something the other day,
showed me this Instagram post about like lessons for your
(41:06):
kids about things that you know, don't put their name
on their lunch box and stuff. I mean, this is
kind of dark about kids getting abducted and stuff, but
just things that lessons that we've learned from our parents
that we passed down that way. And obviously as they
get older, you tell them about you know, your your
relationship with your father that's no longer there. But we
(41:28):
have we have not had discussions with him because he's
he wouldn't even understand. I mean, so I say this
all the time. I mean, my my big picture philosophical
life lessons for the young man will come in due time,
but as of right now, I just want the kid
to sleep and stop freaking out when he gets belly
(41:51):
aches after he drinks a bottle and screams is loud
that you could hear and you know, Utah from where
we're sitting. So we're going through right now, and I
can't even fathom any thoughts beside just trying to get
over this hump that is four and a half months.
I love football, Go Niners. Are you keeping up with
(42:13):
the World Cup? I don't really watch soccer unless they're
big games. I recently just found out that the World
Cup had one and a half point five billion views.
Do you think the streaming services will try to get
World Cup games in the future. A normal World Cup
game averages one hundred and seventy five million people. It's
a good question. Yeah, I'll watch. I mean, obviously I'll
(42:33):
watch all the USA games. I'll definitely, I mean, i'll
watch it's it's gonna be on television constantly. What I
love about a good tournament is something like this, when
it's not all Primetime. You know, you just turn on.
That's why I love golf. Thursday Friday, I just sit
(42:54):
in my office in the house wherever I'm at, first
thing in the morning, Saturday, Sunday, first thing in the morning,
always on at ESPN Plus. So when there's a game
in Philly, in Jersey, in Boston, in Florida, these games
are gonna start for me on the West Coast probably
like nine in the morning. So I'll just have a
World Cup game on, even if I don't know who's playing.
(43:16):
But I when I met Alexi Lawless maybe last year
when I when I was doing Colin, I told him
off air, I said, you know, I went to a
camp in nineteen ninety four on Stanford's campus and you
guys played Brazil, and I remember we were staying in
like the dorms and you could hear they were playing
(43:39):
at Stanford's football stadium, and I think we lost like
one to nothing or two to one. It's like a
historic game. And that's that World Cup And even Alexi
has said it made him famous. I mean, is part
of a huge He's a big personality and good talking
about soccer, but like that moment made him and these
(44:01):
I said this the other day, and people push back
of like, my expectations for us are pretty low because
every time this type stuff happens, it feels like we're
always disappointed and we go in thinking we're gonna be
like Tiger Woods or Tom Brady and then are mad
when we get bounced or don't make it to the
(44:23):
you know, out of the group. So my expectations are
really low. That being said, when we're on and I'm
not a soccer guy, I'm gonna be rooting, like I'm
gonna be glued. I feel this way with hockey. It's
like Team USA. That was some of the most riveting
television of twenty twenty six watching that group, watching them
(44:43):
take on Canada. It was unreal and if we could
ever go on a run, it would be massive. And
I think soccer Guy used to always push back against
like you don't even know that's sports. Most people in
football don't know that much about football, you know what
they do. They watch a lot of football and they
(45:05):
enjoy it. I think soccer Guy and maybe they've changed,
needs to be more inviting, like let the casuals like
me and you in and let us get mad that
we're not good enough. That's what you need.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
You need.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
The reason the Yankees and the Lakers and the Cowboys
are the biggest brands in their sports is because they
have the most casual fans as well as diehards. You know,
diehards do not carry the day. It's a big couple
of days for Fox, though, or a couple of weeks,
or however long this Cup is. It's a big day
for all these football teams or hosting you know. I
(45:41):
know the Chiefs are hosting, the Niners, the Rams. I
think all the football teams basically around the country are
hosting these games. Despite the record coaching turnover last season,
ten teams that missed the playoffs yet did not make
a change Jets, Commander, Saints, Chiefs, Colts, Bengals, Cowboys, Bucks, By, Kings, Lions.
If you were to parlay three teams at ten to
(46:04):
one to have a new coach in twenty seven, which
ones would you pick? Also, if I offered you ten
to one to predict a spot for Tomlin in twenty seven,
I do think the Jets and Browns are gonna be
teams people pick. And I was texting the three and
Out guys yesterday. I don't think either team's gonna be good,
(46:24):
but they're not bad, Like they're gonna be good bad teams.
They're going to both the Jets and the Browns are
gonna play all their games at ten am Pacific Standard
time on Sundays. As that window gets shittier, those teams
are gonna thrive there. Miami's not gonna be a good watch.
The Cardinals are gonna be a terrible watch. They have
no quarterback and their defense kind of sucks. They'll probably
(46:46):
end up trading Josh Sweat. I do think the Browns
and the Jets have a lot of good core people,
but they're probably both gonna lose a lot of games.
So is Todd Munkin and what's his name, Aaron Glenn? Like,
are those jobs kind of decent jobs next year? Would
(47:08):
Mike Tomlin be interested? Now? When I see Mike Tomlin,
I think I can see Tampa they have a good GM.
He's coached there before. I know it was a long
time ago, but I could see him wanting to be
in a little warmer weather client climate the other team.
And again, like they could be just solid and Dan
(47:31):
Quinn be fine. You know, Josh Harris is a basketball guy.
They've run through some coaches, and they've run through some people.
So Jayden Daniels, I think, would you know he's from
that general area? He played football at William and Mary.
If I was a betting man, I'd probably say dan
Quinn survives unless it got really bad like last year.
(47:54):
But I would have my bet would be the Bucks.
Would Tomlin coach the Browns? He already took shots at
Barry last year for trading Flacco the Jets New York
bright Lights. I would say teams to have openings. I
(48:15):
say the Jets, the Browns. I think Cowboys gonna be
pretty good, Lions safe, Viking safe. If the culture of
the Bengals were to miss the playoffs, those jobs would
become open, especially the Colts or or I meant the
Bengals as a Chiefs fan. With the addition of the
enemy back as OC coming from Ben Johnson as a
(48:37):
running back coach, do you believe the enemy will bring
scheme changes to the offense, such as going under center
instead of shotgun? Statistics have shown Mahomes has thrived under center,
and Walker runs way better under center as well. Well.
I'm scheduled to talk to coach reed tomorrow, so I'm
going to ask him, ask him if the emphasis of
(49:01):
going all in on Kenneth Walker and Mahomes coming back
from injury, are they going to be a run first team,
especially when you look at their wide receiver unit, I mean,
the best wide receivers currently in the clink. So my
guess would be that they be. Now, when Eric the
Enemy became the offensive coordinator at UCLA, they passed it
(49:21):
all the time. So Eric b Enemy is a running
back coach by trade, but when he was a play caller,
but he likes passing it and he was around Andy
Forever who likes to pass it too. So my guess
is we're going to see they kind of went back
to the drawing board, and maybe we see a big
change next year when it comes to the just the
(49:43):
past happy nature that the Chiefs I think can become,
and I think the wear and tear kind of ultimately
the undoing of Mahomes' acl Would you rather have your
favorite team suck cats lightning in a bottle and win
a championship but then go back to sucking think like
the Florida Miami Marlins, or have your team be competitive
(50:04):
every year but never win a title. This is a
no brainer part of sports if you're gonna be a fan,
and Woolves use football as this example because in baseball
you would much rather have a team year in, year out.
The Braves won one championship in the nineties. They were
really beside the Yankees by far the best team in
(50:26):
the nineties, and they won it one time. Are many
World Series they even make it to that the only
World Series they made it to. They make it to
one other World Series, But every single game during the
season for a decade plus, you knew they were gonna
win a lot. If you ever tried to watch a
shitty baseball team, I have it in years because I
(50:47):
don't even pay attention. The Giants are horrendous. Honestly, I
don't think the San Fansco Giants would win the College
World Series. I think if you put the Samsco Giants
in the College World Series, I don't think they would
be a lock to win, which is ironic because the
manager that they hired became famous because he won the
College World Series. But their talent sucks. They were just
(51:08):
a poorly run franchise and it's miserable, and they won
titles years ago, twenty fourteen might as well be in
eighteen eighty seven. I think you always pick being competitive always,
then if you're talking over a ten year span, because
they're just not gonna watch the games. Had a first
(51:31):
son also named him Jack. Congratulations. Anyway, I'm curious, what's
the life of a practice squad player? Have any guys
made a full career in that role? Do they make
a decent living if that is as far as they
make it in the league? And what is a day
in the life of a practice squad player? The rules
changed in twenty twenty. When I was in the league,
(51:54):
you could only you only had like several year, like
three years of practice squad eligibility, and if you were
on a bad team and they elevated you and you
played a certain number of regular season snaps, your eligibility
was done. So sometimes like a fifth round pick who
would start on the practice squad would by mid season
the team's terrible guys get injured elevate them up, and
(52:17):
then he has no practic squad eligibility, but he probably
shouldn't be a fifty three man roster player yet, and
then he like can't get a job. Well, they change
those rules. Now it's like Jason Peters at forty years
old is on a practice squad. So you can be
on a practice squad, I think in perpetuity. I'm pretty
sure you have unlimited eligibility. Don't quote me on this,
(52:38):
but it's like two hundred and eighty grand. It's like
fifteen K a week. Here's the problem. If I make
the team, if I'm an NFL you know, a second
year player, and I'm either gonna make the team or
go to the practice squad. If I make the team
and I play Week one, even if I have the
(53:00):
minimum salary, which is like nine hundred grand, that salary
is guaranteed for the season, So I'm guaranteed to get
nine hundred grand whether they cut me because I'm not
good enough, or I keep playing all season. And obviously
if I do well percentage of snaps and different incentives,
I can make more money. But if I'm on the
roster week one and I play that game, my salary
is guaranteed. If I don't make the team and I'm
(53:23):
on a practice squad, and whatever that number is, it's
like it's gone up over the years. Let's say let's
just say for argument sake, it's two hundred fifty grand
over the course of seventeen weeks. I'm a day to
day player, so whatever that number is, thirteen fourteen to
fifteen K a week, I am not guaranteed week to week.
(53:43):
I can be cut at any moment for zero dollars. Obviously,
if I every week, I make that much money, but
I'm not guaranteed the next week. So it is a
life of injuries. They need different people. It's a numbers game.
You might just get cut because they need the roster spot,
not because they don't even like you, and you don't
(54:06):
typically travel. You obviously don't play in the games. You
basically work, you know, you help service the starters on
the scout team. You're part of the meetings. You know,
like usually most teams. Let's say you win and you
(54:27):
get Monday and Tuesday off as a player. You usually
come in and lift and work out and recover or whatever,
but there's no practice or whatever. You just start watching
film on your own for the Wednesday morning. Kind of
here's the game plan. You show up to that team
meeting at seven thirty eight o'clock in the morning. You know,
like every other player, no different than Miles Garrett or
(54:48):
George Kittle or whatever. And then if you break off
into meetings, you go with your position group. And then
when you go to practice, you know, you go with
that position group to practice. And then as the different
periods of practice go from individual to group, you might
go with if they need you to service people starters.
(55:10):
Here goes the backups. You basically just do whatever you're told,
but you are not preparing to play. But you should
be because at any moment, if someone gets injured, either
in practice or through the week, they could elevate you up.
And then once you're elevated up, if it's past week one,
your salary is not even guaranteed. Going from fifteen k
(55:31):
a week to nine hundred k a year, which whatever
that math is, let's say triple thirty grand a game,
be a little more in that forty grand a game,
I can still cut you the following week. A lot
of people have started on practice squads and worked their
way up, but you got to be pretty intrinsically disciplined
(55:55):
and motivated because you're not really in the mix. You're
doing a lot of scout team, but all of a sudden,
scout team can turn into like the head coach the
GM the assistant coach is really paying attention, and then
you get an injury and the head coach sitting there
with the offensive or defensive coordinator, he's like, you got
any ideas? He's like, hey, middlecoff has been dominating us
on scout team. We take a look at this guy.
(56:17):
What do you think? And the head coach like, okay,
I'll pay a little more attention to it. And maybe
that's how it starts. Obviously, if you've been drafted by
that team, they know a lot about you. Sometimes you
just pick a guy up, put him on practice squad,
and a couple of weeks later you're like, oh, this
guy's better than I thought it's It can be difficult
depending on the team though, to really stand out in
to practice. How much stock do you put in a
(56:53):
first year head coach bump for teams looking to make
a jump. What is the difference in an impact of
a super Bowl winning coach first a first time head
coach going to a new team. Uh, it's a good question.
I would say, Well, you have a super Bowl winning coach,
they just know what they're doing. Like when Andy Reid
(57:14):
or Sean Payton or Sean McVeigh or you know the
John harball, when they walk into a meeting room, when
they go to set a practice schedule, when they run
the off season, when they run the OTAs, when they
run training camp. They've been doing it for a long time,
Like the forty nine ers and the Rams are getting
(57:34):
ready for Australia. Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan have been
head coaches for ten years, so when they build their
practices to lead up to that kind of weird travel game,
those guys are pretty comfortable doing something that is a
little uncomfortable. Where when you're a first year guy like
Ben Johnson last year, you know you're good. You know
(57:57):
you're an excellent offensive coordinator, but you've never been the
head coach. You gotta deal now with more of the
defense you got the defensive coordinator you're dealing with. There's
kind of a feeling out process. But when you're taking
over for a guy who's not good at his job,
it's easy to stand out. And then I think, you know,
like Dan Quinn his first year in Washington, the energy.
(58:18):
I think energy can be a big thing. Positive energy.
Oftentimes I don't have a great answer for that one,
to be honest with you, because every first year head
coach is so different. Sometimes you're setting the foundation, like
when Dan Hampbell took over the Lions, they were so bad.
He was just kind of setting the foundation for a
couple years later there in the NFC Championship game, Lions
(58:40):
and Michigan fan here just curious. Do you think JJ
is getting too much crap for his play in recent attitude?
I felt like at Michigan or excuse me, I felt
like Minnesota had to have drafted him further for the
person that he is and his resilience on the field.
Nothing I saw in college made him look like a
starting NFL quarterback. Shouldn't the Vikings be getting torn apart
(59:02):
for the things that they could develop him? And it's
seemingly falling apart at this point. I think they are.
I mean, I think it's it's one of the biggest
disastrous situations in the league. They drafted him in the
top fifteen, they had a team that had just won
fourteen games, They had a team that was sixty minutes
away from being the number one seed, and he was objectively,
(59:26):
like by all the metrics, terrible and the eye test
was worse. So and now he's by all accounts going
to get beat out by Kyler Murray. So I think
they've been getting destroyed. That's what the general manager got fired.
H In regard to a question though that he basically
gave me all his compliments. I don't need to read him.
It's about my Philadelphia Eagles. I'm pretty pessimistic for the
(59:48):
most part, shocker even during our Super Bowl runs. But
this season I feel a little bit more optimistic than usual.
I think the West Coast system will be a decent change.
I think Jalen will prove himself even more this season,
with or without aj Am. I crazy for this level
of optimism. Well, their team on paper is fantastic. I
mean it is. It's been that way for four years.
(01:00:09):
They have went healthy, an excellent offensive line. They have
Saquon Barkley, who's a year removed from one of the
great seasons of the history of the league. Dallas godd
are still on the team while they no longer have
aj They draft a guy in the first round. They
bring over multiple veteran guys. Devonte Smiths proven to be
a high level NFL wide receiver and this offense is
(01:00:30):
wide receiver friendly. Their defense is loaded. I mean, I
guess it's got a couple holes, you know, pass rush,
But I mean the draft they signed and traded for
Jonathan Grenard, who had a two year stretch where he
had twenty five sacks. So to go with the defensive tackles,
Jordan Davis got in way better shape, they got good
linebacker play, they got excellent defensive backs. Yeah, there's they
(01:00:56):
should be a playoff team. And then the thing with
Jalen going back to Oklahoma is just a lot of
his success has been shotgun has ben gun runs. My
two questions are this, will he just embrace this offense,
which everyone's saying the right things now, but let's see
once they get into the games, And will he use
his mobility more? If he gets back to running, he
(01:01:20):
becomes a complete player. He's never gonna sit in the
pocket and pick you apart like Joe Montana. It's not
his thing. But he is a fantastic duel threat quarterback.
And Russell Wilson got this way because I actually think
there's some similarity to the scramble ability, the deep ball accuracy.
Is Russell no longer wanted to run in Seattle. He
wanted to be Tom Brady and it felt like Jalen
(01:01:41):
kind of did that too. So you guys are not
Tom Brady, Tom count run. You guys can, especially Jalen.
Jalen's running is fantastic. He's a natural at it. He
doesn't even take big hits. So if he gets back
to that, then yeah, I mean, I think they could
easily win the division again, Yo, big Helmie, don't have
(01:02:03):
a question. Just wanted to say, love the pod, love
your style, don't change for corporate America, and fuck the haters.
We have to worry about corporate America because I guess
we do partnerships with other corporations, but that has had
no impact on anything I've ever done. I appreciate the
kind note. We will end on this. When coming into
(01:02:25):
the league, Aaron Rodgers had a very odd uh had
very odd mechanics that McCarthy got out of him. Apparently
the Steelers are quote retracting Drew Aller and uh retracting
Drew Aller everything about the quarterback position, re enacting, retracting.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Even
(01:02:46):
though I know what you mean, I'm not I'm not
sure the word matches up with what you're trying to say.
I think they're basically breaking him down and reteaching him.
I think you're I think you meant to say reteaching
and it said retracting. That's what you meant to say.
I would say the difference of Rogers is Aaron Rodgers
in college was really good. I forget if it was
(01:03:08):
his sophomore junior season, but there was a game against
USC when Pete Carroll and they hadn't lost the game
in forever where I think he completed like twenty five
straight passes and cal easily could have won the game.
Like Aaron Rodgers went toe to toe with the best
team in college football and was slicing and dice them
with his arm. Now his mechanically he just he kind
(01:03:30):
of held the ball up above his shoulders. It was
a little weird, but just from a accuracy standpoint, natural
thrower the football, he just needed to reteach, like you
don't need to hold the ball up there. And I forget.
I know he's talked about this before, exactly the reason
Tedford had him doing that. Drewald just wasn't that good
(01:03:51):
at football. That's the problem. With Drew Rowler. Aaron Rodgers
was a really good college football player. If you put
Aaron at Cal on the Penn State team these last
couple of years, they probably win the national championship or
don't lose the Notre Dame last year and don't have
the season they had this year. So I think it
(01:04:16):
could be there's two angles of this one. I don't
think you can compare the two situations because Rogers was
a much more He's a much better player coming out
of college. I do think McCarthy, though, has proven to
be really good with quarterbacks. So if you want to
be glass half full on this Drew Aler thing, which
(01:04:37):
I'm out and most people I know in football did
not like to pick and think that they crazy overdrafted him,
they do have a guy that's a quarterback. Whisper might
be a little strong, but he's he's pretty natural with
that position. If you would have said Mike Tomlin had
drafted Drew Allard, been like what a waste of a pick,
(01:05:00):
you could convince me there is a scenario in an
outcome where this where he becomes like a serviceable backup.
Because there are some teams that they would have drafted
Drew Aler that you could convince me out of the
league in like two years, like a Hackenberg type situation.
But I'm not big on taking a guy in the
third round and then having to reteach him the position
(01:05:20):
like the Eagles took the dude from Nigeria in the seventh. Okay, okay,
I could take a guy in the fifth or sixth
round in a bad draft, third round pick, it's not
I mean, got some other needs on this team to
reteach a quarterback. I think that pick was kind of crazy.
I really did. But omar Con, baby, have a good day.
(01:05:44):
Talk to you tomorrow. Say the volume.
The volume, What is going on?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
My people, John Middlecoff three, and our podcast How are
we doing? Hopefully everyone's doing as well as Miles Garrett.
You had a big smile on today. I watched Andrew
Berry's press conference in Cleveland. I watched Lesnide McVeigh with
Miles Garrett today in Los Angeles, and yeah, I I
(00:36):
was planning on just doing a big mail bag, but
I was like, I I take you about twenty four
hours one of the biggest trades in NFL history. I'll
kind of rehash some stuff that I've been thinking about,
and then we'll go into the mail bag, which the
first four or five questions are heavily on this topic anyway.
I mean, it's gotta be one of the biggest. Didn't
see that one coming on June first, that we'll ever
(00:59):
get as long as I've been doing this. So and
I'm not mad at it. I mean, you're gonna give
me a trade like that when I need to put
together a podcast in June, I'm all for it. I
could use another one this week as well, so or
next actually save it next week, save it for next week.
But yeah, that's the game plan today. You guys know,
(01:19):
the Drill. If you listen on Collins Feed, make sure
you subscribe to three and Out. We're up on Netflix.
You can hit the alert you never miss an episode.
We got any content that doesn't make it onto the podcast,
I try to put up on the YouTube channel, so
you can go check that out as well. And let's
talk some Let's talk some Rams Browns. I want to
start with less sneed and just the Rams philosophical belief
(01:46):
on how to operate. And there are two types of
people that I really admire just personally professionally. And I've
said this forever with I mean, it's much more tangible
with athletes, but anyone that knows people that own businesses,
small businesses, medium sized businesses, whatever, and they get like
their sixties or seventies, and they still show up at
(02:06):
the office all the time, and they still want to
know what's going on and they're still heavily involved. It's like, bro,
you've made all the money, you do not need to
do this, And it's like kind of all they know,
and they just kind of like being in the in
the mix. They like doing deals. You know, Tom Brady
playing at forty four, forty five years old, it's like,
why are you doing this Aaron Rodgers this year? It's
(02:27):
so yeah, he's making twenty five million dollars, but you know,
twenty five million dollars is changing his life zero percent.
Unless he's blown a bunch of money that we don't
know about, it is going to have zero material impact
on the guy's life. He just likes playing ball. Proved
it last year when he played through a broken hand,
not making that much money relative to what he was
used to making. And I hope that about myself if
(02:50):
I'm ever lucky enough to be in a position where
it's like you don't have to work, It's like, no,
I like to grind. I like to do this. And
you watch all these people and you just like, I
want to be like that and keep that mindset as
I age and the other thing. And these are the
type people that I admire the most are people with
fucking balls, people with stones, people that aren't afraid to
(03:10):
step into the batter's box and take a big swing,
because you know what, in life, nothing is guaranteed landing
Miles Garrett. Sean McVay said it today guarantees you nothing.
He even used the example, do you guys know who
the betting favorite to win the Super Bowl last year
around this time of year was he said, no, you
guys don't, none of you remember I do. It was
(03:31):
the Baltimore Ravens and they were like almost four to one.
Guess what happened. They went eight nine. They missed the playoffs.
Now based on injuries going into the season, you know,
Meta Bouquet missed the miss the season. But no one
thought the Baltimore Ravens weren't gonna make the playoffs and
John Harball would get fired. There were a lot of
really really rich people in two thousand and six and
(03:53):
two thousand and seven who did not have much by
two thousand and nine. Things change fast. This life is
not guarantee, he'd on the field. In the business world, personally,
our own health, things change on a dime immediately. But
you can't live scared, you can't function scared and less snead.
(04:13):
I looked at it yesterday for Miles Garrett, Trent McDuffie,
and Matt Stafford. They have given a twenty two first
round pick. They've given a twenty three first round pick,
which was pick six. They gave a twenty six first
round pick for McDuffie. They'll give a twenty seven first
round pick for this Miles Garrett Tray. That's four first
round picks, a second, and a third. Oh and Jared
(04:36):
Goff who was the number one overall pick, who's made
Pro Bowl since he's been in Detroit, and the defensive
rookie of the year's made back to back Pro Bowls,
including those picks for those three players, like, he is
giving up a lot to get a lot, but he
is not afraid to do that. And I think a
lot of people. I remember when I worked for a
short period of time in Corporate America. I was around
(04:59):
all these like managers who were making I mean at
the time it would have been two hundred and fifty
three hundred and four hundred grand, you know, running these
radio stations. And they never wanted upset the Apple card.
They never wanted to piss anyone off below them or
above them. They just kind of wanted to maintain the
status quo so that money kept coming in. I remember
(05:19):
being around them, and I had been in football my
entire professional career up until that point, thinking these guys
are fucking losers, like this is not working. But they
never wanted to change anything, because if they make a change,
then the bulls eyes on them and they could lose
that precious job, which ironically most of them blown out
since because the industry dramatically changed. And I'm sure many
(05:40):
of you guys, especially younger people, when you start coming up,
you get in these corporate situations. People want to hold on.
They don't want to give up because if they do
and they make a change, then everyone's looking at them.
It's easy to just maintain what is kind of working,
and nothing is kind of working like what's happening with
the Rams. They've been in the playoffs the last couple
(06:03):
of years. They've been at player two away from last
year being in the super Bowl, the previous year playing
the Commanders in the Championship Game where they would have
been favored. I mean, they've been really, really close. You
don't need to do anything, and they already made a
big splash this offseason and getting Trent McDuffie. Hell, I
even go back to the Ty Simpson thing. I don't
(06:23):
agree with the pick. I don't see the value there.
I don't think he's a long term starter in the
NFL based on what I watched this year at Alabama.
I also think the risk profile of a guy that
hasn't started that much, it's too risky to use that
value of a pick on a guy with that many
question marks. But Lesnie doesn't operate that way. He sees
enough value there to say fuck it, take a swing
(06:46):
and the other thing. And a lot of you guys
listening that are in sales, and we got the question
recently on a mail bag about a dating opportunity in
the office and the risk reward. And I was talking
to my wife about that question since and she knows
a lot of people that got married. You know, she
worked in corporate America before she got involved in real estate,
(07:10):
and she's hold multiple houses to different couples that met
through their job in the corporate setting in which she worked.
And I think sometimes when you are in a position
to make a decision and you get told or want
(07:32):
something because that's what the rams wanted, right, they wanted
Miles Garrett, they heard no. How many people that are
happily married with children that go on to live long
lives were maybe told no the first time that they
tried to get a date with their wife. How many
people in sales that end up making the biggest sale
of their career, don't get an email back the first
(07:54):
time they reach out to that potential client. They don't
get a callback, they get told no, we're not interested.
That's part of life and less sneed. And Andrew Berry
talked about this. They have been on this for years
and they have heard no over and over and over.
The majority of people say, okay, good, I'll just move on.
(08:17):
I actually saw this clip on Instagram. It was one
of those classic like reels of a podcast mixed up
and it was a guy talking like why in a
lot of different companies, salespeople make a lot more money
than the majority of people. Besides like the CEO and
maybe the CFO. Why Because they generate the most money,
they also eat the most shit. It's not an easy gig.
(08:41):
Most people do not have the mental fortitude or thick
skin to handle it. Cause even if you're a successful guy,
you're getting told no constantly. And part of being a
deal maker in any line of work and specifically pro
sports is like you're gonna be on the wrong end
of it a lot, and you know when you try
(09:02):
to make some of these deals happen. There's a reason
that all these gms say, listen, there's a lot of
discussions that don't lead to anything. There are a lot
of discussions that I reach out and I'm told that
ain't happening. Welcome to your gig. That's what you're paid
to do. And the one thing less Neat is excellent
about is being relentless of his pursuit of the things
(09:22):
he wants. And he's obviously willing to quote unquote overpay
or pay a premium to get what he wants. And
a lot of people, whether it's in football, whether it's
in the jobs you guys have, are just not because
the risk, Like I said, just go back. I remember
graduating college into the financial great financial crisis. I've met
(09:44):
so many people since that were telling me about like
how great things were in especially anyone involved in real
estate in like four h five oh six, and then
things came to a screeching halt. Well, if you were
in it five and o six, you didn't see that
thing coming, or you would have saved and you would
have got out. But everyone worked right into it and
(10:04):
got blown the fuck up. And I think less Seed
is just unafraid to get blown up because it would
have been easy to not do this. He already had
a young, ascending player that does not need to get
paid for multiple years. Now. Obviously this guy is better,
but he did not need to make this deal because
(10:25):
when you do this, it puts even more pressure on you.
Not only is everyone saying they're the betting favorite, but
how do you not win the Super Bowl. No one's
ever had the MVP and the reigning defensive Player of
the Year on the same team. It's unheard of, right,
It's I remember being a kid like Packers they had
Reggie White and Brettfarv even a couple of years before
(10:48):
Steve we forty nine Ers almost said we it was
we back then signed Dean Sanders with Steve Young, MVP
of the League, Best defensive Player Boom super Bowl. I mean,
if you have an MVP int it and a dominant
defensive player likes it becomes a little like basketball. If
you have the impact of those two guys, it's gonna
(11:08):
be hard to not be elite. And the thing with football, though,
is there's no guarantee. We've seen a lot of great
teams on paper not come to fruition. But I have
the utmost respect even if I don't agree with every
individual move over the course of the last five six years.
Some of them are easy, right. I mean, I do
(11:29):
not think they regret the Lions Stafford trade obviously, but
the Lions don't regret that trade either. And the McDuffie
trade's an easy one as well. If you're willing to
pay him pick twenty nine here give me a pro
Bowl corner. I think this one though, it's like, this
puts even more pressure on you. And the one thing
this organization does not afraid of is the spotlight in
(11:54):
the pressure. And I do think if you go back
a couple of years, this has been a pretty dramatic shift.
They got out bid once upon a time for Christian
McCaffrey because they were offering a third and fourth of
the nine ers throwing a second round pick. And I
just think this version of them is not getting out
bid for anything. And this version of them is not
(12:15):
just not calling you back because you say no. And
let's face it, a lot of people do not call
back when they hear now and then a year later,
five years later, they were just bitching a moaning and
playing the victim and complaining. It's like, yeah, life is
not that complicated. Usually successful people all have similar qualities
and McVeigh unless the tandem of willingness to the aggression
(12:41):
take big swings is very, very admirable. And speaking to
Andrew Berry, I do think I do believe him. When
they kept asking him like, why didn't you shop him,
He's like, because we were never shopping him. They just
kept calling us and asking for the player and offering
(13:05):
more and more and more, and then they got to
a point when they included Jared Vers that we couldn't
say no. The analogy that everyone uses, and I've used
it before, is like if someone knocks on your door
and offers you twenty percent more than your house is worth. Well,
if the interest rates are high and you don't have
anywhere to move and you like your house, it ain't
worth it, even if you could make a little profit.
(13:27):
Such a pain in the ass to move. But if
I knock on your door and double your home's value,
you're gonna think long and hard about it. If I
triple it, you'd be crazy to not have the moving
trucks there two days later. And I think sometimes you
get offered something that you go, well, we're going nowhere.
(13:48):
This guy still has a ton of value that if
we did shop him and he brought up a good point,
we were only going to trade him if we hit
a couple factors draft compensation. Obviously we were going to
need a young player back, and there'll probably be other
teams that could offer young, impactful players. But the unique
part about this deal is they were offering a young,
(14:11):
ascending player that plays his position. So if I just
remove Miles Garrett and someone offered me the equivalent of
verse at tight end, at wide, receiver, at corner or whatever,
I have a massive, massive hole at pass rusher, well
Jared versus not Miles Garrett. But he is a pro
Bowl to me Erro pointing up guy that should be
(14:32):
a double digit sack player for the next several years.
And I think they feel pretty good about it. And
they get a guy that's also on a cost control deal,
so an Miles gets, you know, to go to a
team that has the expectations that you feel good about.
You're not screwing a guy that has kind of been
one of the bright spots for a pretty embarrassing operation.
(14:56):
And you watch Andrew Berry and I have been very
critical because, uh, I do think sometimes like the analytically
driven general managers and sports always get a longer rope
with criticism when it comes to the media because the
media sees like they're equal in terms of intellectual capacity.
(15:18):
Andrew Berry now played college football at the in the
IVY League. I think he knows players based on his
last couple of years of doing deals. I think he's
done a really, really good job. And I've always defended him.
And I don't have inside information on this about the
Deshaun Watson thing, I'm putting that one on the owner.
(15:39):
I'm going to defend him. On the Dylan Gabriel thing.
That felt like a heavy Stefanski pick because I just
watched Stefanski sign toa I've always been even more critical
of Stefanski, who I clearly don't think those quarterbacks very
well at all. Like he did have Baker Mayfield that
he could have worked with, couldn't now maybe Baker was
a little immature, but still like it's kind of on you,
(16:02):
you know, it's like, that's your gig. And then you
wanted Dylan Gabriel, like a guy that most people would
have had as an undrafted free agent and clearly is
not an NFL quarterback. And then you immediately go to Tua.
I mean, come on, man, like, not everyone's gonna be
Patrick Mahomes, but you gotta look through a different lens.
And I watch Andrew Berry doing these deals like I
(16:25):
think he knows what he's doing. Now. From a coaching standpoint,
it's hard to get people to take their job. I mean,
years ago people thought Cassarrio was crazy. Well, no one
would take the Houston Texans job. That's why they had
to sign David Kelly. That's why they went with Lovey Smith,
who was a defensive coordinator, because it was toxic, and
then it became non toxic and they could get a
real coach. And I do think the Browns are kind
(16:48):
of laying that foundation of a lot of really good players,
a lot of young ascending players. They're just gonna have
to figure out the coach in the quarterback and maybe
Bunkin is that guy. I would probably bet against it,
but I do think their GM has proven to being really,
really dynamic. Today's show is brought to you by our
(17:15):
presenting sponsor, hard Rock Bet Florida Sportsbook. We talk a
lot of football on the show, but it's the NBA Finals,
not gonna lie I don't like the Knicks. I love
the Knicks. I got in on them probably ten days
ago at four to one. Now they're here. They are
currently on hard Rock bet plus one sixty to win
the NBA Finals. They are also an underdog in Game
(17:37):
one in San Antonio on Wednesday night. They're four and
a half point underdog. You know, Victor Webman Yama's favored
to win the MVP. San Antonio's favorite to win this series.
I believe it's the next time. And obviously, if you're
gonna bet them to win the series, it's hard to
bet against Jalen Brunson being the MVP. We have had
some recent examples though, a couple years ago Jalen Brown.
(17:59):
I remember when on dra Guidala won it. I think,
if you go, well, who could win the MVP if
it wasn't Jalen Brown. If you are Jalen Brunson. If
you wanted to get some odds, you know Karl Anthony
Towns twenty to one, OG's forty to one. Bridges is
one hundred and fifty to one. So I think the
safe bet is Brunson. But they got a lot of
(18:19):
firepower defensively, to throw at him. I can't wait for
this series again. I'm on the Knicks. I think the
Knicks win it. I think it's gonna be excellent. But
I think this is New York's time. So same game parlays.
You want to bet Victor Webbin Yama triple double or
Karl Anthony Towns, you know, double double with Jalen Brunson's
(18:39):
over on points, you can do whatever you want to do.
I think Jalen Brunston goes nuts and Victor goes no.
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Let's just do some mailback questions at John Middlecoff at
John Middlecoff as the Instagram fire in those DMS questions
(19:23):
answered here on the show. Got a lot DMS blew
up yesterday. Nothing like a trade to get everyone fired up.
It's gonna be pretty heavy Browns rams questions here early
Browns fan I cannot believe. And I didn't realize this.
I saw this DM earlier in the day, and then
I watched Barry's press conference. The vibe in Cleveland, I
(19:46):
from maybe on the reddit boards, the fan message boards online,
is not positive. I cannot believe people are so upset
about Miles and the trade. I understand it's difficult to
trade away the best defensive player in football, but he's thirty,
he's a depreciating asset, and we are not in a
position to win a Super Bowl. We have a lot
of young talent. It makes so much sense to get
(20:07):
a great young player and plenty of AMMO to potentially
trade up in future drafts. After this move and the
last two drafts the Browns have had, I'm starting to
think Barry knows what he's doing. Am I crazy for
thinking that? After being so upset with Deshaun Watson as well,
many failed draft picks like Gabriel Willis, etc. Uh. I
(20:28):
do think this is the last year, like every year
that goes by with an aging player. I mean Miles
going into year ten. I don't think he's a depreciat
eighting asset. Yet he's at twenty five sacks, so his
asset value is still really strong. I thought they should
have traded him last year when he demanded the trade,
and as Andrew Barry said, we just know he kept
(20:50):
asking or people kept asking, like, what did you say
last year when they'd call you about Miles. It's like
I would tell them, no, this wasn't like we're this
isn't a Yannis situation. This also is like a Luca
situation where we couldn't stand the guy and we wanted
to get rid of him. And I traded him too,
My buddy. This was one team being relentless in their
pursuit of the asset and refusing to take no for
(21:11):
an answer and finally meeting our parameters and make it
worth it. So I would say the Travis Hunter trade
and the Miles Garrett trade which brought you two defensive
linemen who should both be multi year Pro bowlers moving forward,
for the Browns in Mason Graham and Jared Verse, Qushun Jenkins,
(21:32):
who should be a starting running back. And we'll see
what happens with these future picks. But I am in
complete agreement with the UH that Andrew Berry is doing
a good job. I am, and I can't hate this
trade at all. I thought they should have traded him
last year, But would I rather have Like, think about this,
(21:57):
Let's say the Rams would have traded pick third team
before the draft, and next year's the same package, but
instead of Jared Verse pick thirteen, would I rather have
Ruben Bain or Jared Verse? I think Jason Light would
be the first to tell you, I hope Ruben Bain
becomes Jared Verse, like he's in theory, He's kind of
(22:18):
similar type player. But like, if Ruben Bain becomes Jared Verse,
the Bucks nailed that fucking pick. So you would rather
have Jared Verse than Ruben Bay. So I think people
are conflating the value of Verse. His value is really
really high. I said it yesterday. I think they could
(22:41):
have got if they would have put Verse on the
trading block, which he clearly wasn't he just in the
negotiations they had to include him. That would the Would
the Cincinnati Bengals rather have had Dexter Lawrence coming off
of down years, had some injuries. Now Dexter's proven to
be a more dominant player than Verse when he's been
right or a guy who's making way less money cost controlled.
(23:05):
You don't need to give a contract extension to in
Jared Verse. I think it's fair to say when you
factor an age in the contract, they might've rather had
Jared Verse, but they that would have been a discussion.
They would have given picked ten Like to me, that
would have been a heavy discussion in their room. Would
you say the Rams teams that Stafford has been on
(23:26):
are quote super teams. Why doesn't this seem to impact
his image the way it does Purty hurts, Goth, etc. Well,
I think he Stafford already established himself for well over
a decade in Detroit. Right, really good player. No one
wins on shitty organizations. It doesn't happen. Larry Fitzgerald, who's
(23:46):
father just passed rip, is a great example. He's one
of the great players of all time. When he got
his couple times to play with good teams, he was
clearly like one of the greatest playoff players we'd ever see.
But he played for the Cardinals and the majority of
the time they sucked. This is not basketball where if
I'm Jokic, if I'm Luca, if I'm Lebron, if I'm Curry,
(24:10):
even if my team kind of sucks, if I'm in
my prime, we're gonna be somewhat competitive and like be
a playoff team. It might might be the eight seed,
but we're gonna be competitive in football, even if you're
the quarterback. If your organization blows as the Lions did.
I mean, they were the running joke in the league.
(24:31):
You can't overcome it. And honestly, last year they didn't
have Trent McDuffie or Miles Garrett and Stafford won the MVP.
Puka was a fifth round pick. A lot of people
could add DeVante. You know, he led the league in touchdowns,
but it wasn't like people were knocking down the doors
to give him a couple of years forty million dollars
like the Rams did. It's not like they gave him
(24:51):
one hundred and fifty million dollars. So, I this is
a super team, but the last couple of years were
not super teams. They were really defined by verse Fisk young.
All these young players that Less had just drafted. Now,
all those guys probably gonna get long term contracts. But
(25:12):
like two years ago when they went toe to toe
with the Eagles, or even last year when they're going
toe totoe with Seattle, I don't think you would call
that a superteam this year is for sure. You crush
Barry and Stefanski for years. Should they really get credit
for trading an all time talent? Like do the Raiders
get credit for taking Mendoza or the Colts for taking Luck?
(25:33):
Seems like it's not hard to be a good GM
when you're handed an all time talent. You don't get
any credit for taking Andrew Luck. Grigson used to get
mad at me because I used to shit on his
tenure with the Colts. It's like, you just don't get
credit for drafting Andrew Luck. You know, It's like that's
my mom would have done that. The Mendoza thing, you
probably don't get credit for that either. You get credit
(25:55):
for everything else. You get credit for Ashon Gent, you know,
whoever else you drafted over these couple of years, or
Linderbaum or whatever. But I'm with you you don't now
if Mendoza in Luck, you can't really compare. I mean,
Luck was dramatically better coming out of college. But I
hear what you're saying. You don't like, does Ryan Poles
(26:16):
get credit for Kayleb Williams. I think where you deserve
credit is I think the owner is very involved in
Cleveland clearly, And when you hear them continuously say one
helmet guy, one helmet guy, one helmet guy, I think
part of the reason they say that is, like, what
else do you really have to hang your hat on?
(26:37):
You know, you're watching Shador complete thirty percent of his
passes or Deshaun Watson limp around out there. It's not
like an enjoyable team to watch. But you have this
one guy who is like Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor twenty
five sacks, but like every single year you just watch
them play and when he's on, he's fun player to watch.
And I just think it's very difficult to do that,
(27:00):
and when you do that, you have to capitalize, and
I just think they did. So you don't get credit
for drafting the player. I don't think Andrew Berry drafted him,
did he? But you get credit for changing your mind
and realizing what's best for the organization, which is ultimately
your job, unless and Andrew are coming from different areas, right,
(27:24):
And I think some people I wouldn't even say greedy,
but in the back of their head it's like, one
day we could trade this guy. Well, in two years,
the value might be really shitty. He might be a
shell of himself, and you wasted your opportunity to capitalize
on the investment or capitalize on the asset. And I
(27:45):
think that they were open to it, and they kept
working the Rams, working the Rams like I don't. I
don't think this was an easy deal for the Rams
to do. I'm a lifelong Rams fan, dating back to
Saint Louis, and I have friends acting like Verse is
the next TJ. Watt. There's no question he's been highly productive,
but given his relatively limited pass rush arsenal, I think
(28:09):
his sack ceiling is probably around twelve. I would tend
to agree. I've been trying to explain to my friends
that his most likely outcome is something closer to Brandon Graham.
Not because I think Verse has the same pass rush
limitations it's like a scout here, but because so much
(28:29):
of what makes both players valuable does not necessarily show
up in the sackclum The impact games for pressures, run defense,
set in the edge, and constantly winning reps even if
the box score does not always reflect it. Graham was
extremely productive and a fantastic edge defender throughout his career.
Even if he never put up the Gotti sack totals,
his overall impact was much greater than his raw sacks.
(28:51):
A huge part of football. Winning teams have winning players
that don't necessarily show up in the box score every
single week. A big reason that Dexter Lawrence went for
pick ten is not because he's one day going to
get the Bengals fifteen sacks. It's because when he's right
for thirty forty snaps during that game, he is an
(29:14):
unmovable object and obviously has pass rush ability too. But
when he's right, his skills don't just light up the
box score like maybe a TJ. Water and Miles Garrett.
No different than some players that are great, you know,
receivers that block in the passing game or running backs
that are great in pass protection. Football is a team game.
(29:37):
This isn't golf, this isn't tennis. You know you have
to do things that do not like certain guys certain games.
Part of AJ Brown's value is he becomes a threat
even when he's not targeted. You have to allocate energy, effort,
and resources on his side of the field. So it
(29:58):
takes a lot of game planning, takes a lot of
the player's attention. Everyone on that sideline is focused on him,
and if he runs, routes hard, and plays hard, even
if he only gets three or four catches, he can
change the game. Tyreek Hill, Randy Moss, any big time
threat offensively or defensively like Miles Garrett, can have a
great game and not get a sack because he's causing
(30:20):
so much attention he can free up for everyone else.
So I'm with you. And the other thing is you
don't get much credit for because you get paid to
rush the passer. Being a good run defender really matters.
It really does. When I try to run your way
and I cannot run your way because you set the
edge and you set the tone of stoning whoever is
(30:41):
at the line of scrimmage, that matters. That's why the
Texans defense is so good because Will Anderson and daneil Hunter.
It ain't just about third and ten. First and ten,
you better buckle the fuck up because those guys are
coming and if you want to double team them, have
at it. It's on like Donkey Kong. They want it.
And that's part of being a good defensive lineman is
(31:02):
being a two way player. There are a lot of
guys that can just rush the passer on third and
twelve that there are a ton of guys throughout the
league that don't start they can do that. Guys go
on to have long careers that were later drafted picks
because they're great pass rushers. But it's hard to put
them on the field on first and ten against the
Eagles because like, we're just gonna run at you every
single play. And that's where versus good and that that matters,
(31:25):
especially in a division that gets freezing cold. You know,
the Ravens and the Steelers. I mean, the Steelers will
see what their offense looks like under McCarthy, but the
Ravens definitely want to run the ball. Uh. I guess
the big too. I got a hypothetical question on the
Garrett trade. What if Verse decided to not show up
(31:46):
in Cleveland. If I'm Verse, I think I'd be a
bit pissed. Going from LA to Cleveland is a bit wild?
Is this even a possibility? I mean, technically you could
no show, but like once this season starts, you get
paid weekly, So why would you give up that money?
And if you don't show up to the voluntary or
(32:09):
excuse me, the mandatory ota, which I think for Cleveland's
next week maybe it's in two weeks, you would get
fined and give up one hundred grand. I don't see
financially why you would do that. There is no debating
that going from the Rams to Cleveland would suck. For
two years, Jared Versus played in huge games, playoffs and
(32:30):
non playoffs. All of his games have mattered. The Browns
haven't played in a meaningful game in years, so and
I understand he's from there. I think Andrew Barry said
his sister still lives in Dayton, Ohio. But it's part
of being a pro athlete. John Hamm once famously said,
that's what the money's for. You know, we can't get traded.
(32:54):
I guess some of us technically potentially could. I guess,
depending on exactly what you do. If a company buys
your company, maybe things change dramatically, but they're part of
being an athlete. And if you don't have a no
trade clause, which no rookie kind of rookie contracts, going
to this is a possibility, you know. And it goes
the other way too. So some guys are on shitty
(33:16):
teams and it's it's why you always play hard, because
people are gonna watch you. I would say the one
thing if I was Jared Verse that would give me
it wouldn't piss me off too much. I remember Kevin
Durant did he get traded to the Suns and was
mad about the package. He thought the package should have
(33:37):
been more. It's like, bro, you're always worried about the
weirdest shit. But if you're Jared Verse, you knew that
you were the reason that they could trade for one
of the greatest players in the history of the game.
So this team doesn't like me, they love me. So
if I keep doing what I'm doing, I'm going to
get one hundred and fifty million dollars. That's that's the
(34:00):
way you'd have to shift your mind. I also think
once you've been in the league a couple of years,
wasn't he with the Rams when they got rid of
Cooper Cup like you saw that Cooper Cup was the
Super Bowl MVP, like team captain, heartbeat of the squad,
and they just cut. It's part of the business you're in,
(34:22):
and the faster you kind of become aware of it,
even if you are. I mean, I'm sure he didn't
see this coming, because nobody did. Hurt. On another pot,
the Browns won't have the fifth year option on Jared Verse.
When teams trade away a first round pick, does the
gaining team still have the fifth round option? That would
be news to me. I would when you get traded,
(34:45):
you still have the ability on their rookie contract, unless
there's some stipulation that I don't know about. In this scenario,
the Browns would have access to the fifth year option,
which they would probably be planning on picking up after
this season. But typically when you remember, trying to think
of a recent example, Sam Darnold was traded to the
(35:08):
Panthers from the Jets and they picked up his fifth
year option. The Panthers did, and then everyone thought that
they regretted it, so things changed fast. Here's a non
(35:31):
rams question. Over the last couple of years in Houston,
they've been reshaping the line and one of the most
common themes amongst the Beat reporters have been there trying
to change the culture of the unit. I believe trying
to shift that culture was a big reason they got
rid of Tunzel along with the big Capit what all
goes into changing culture in a specific unit. Is this
(35:52):
something you were a part of in Philly? How is
it different than doing it for the whole team. I
think the issue for them with Tunzel is he needed
a new contract, which I think Cassario and that group
was hesitant to give. I think they saw where the
roster was headed, who they wanted to invest resources in,
(36:13):
and Laramie still had a ton of value, and they punted.
I think they answer some questions about like Laramie's practice
habits just in terms of like he just didn't practice
all the time. And I think when your best player
doesn't practice all the time, it could be difficult. But
I think part of setting the tone for your offensive
(36:36):
line unit is whoever your best offensive lineman is, if
they set the standard of wark, ethic, of focus of
practice habits. I'd argue though, like I saw the forty
nine ers like Trent Williams, and part of it is
just old like he doesn't practice that much. So I
to me, it's on the old line coach who Cole
(36:58):
Popovich is their O line coach, who was my first
year as a JA at President State, was our starting
left or right guard. I think he got hurt Week
one and never played again. He's been into coaching now
for years. He coached for Belichick. But I've always believed
culture is the people, Like why did New England have
such a great culture because it started with Tom and
(37:22):
most of the guys that they surrounded him with, and
early on he was surrounded with are the right type guys. Rabel, Bruski,
Rodney Harrison, Logan, Mankins to Edelman to mccordy to Gronk.
I mean, these are serious motherfuckers when it comes to football.
So but you can also like the Chiefs didn't trade
(37:46):
Trent McDuffie because they didn't like Trent McDuffie. In terms
of the culture, you also have to make business decisions,
like you can't sign everybody, and at certain positions the
numbers are huge, so they're looking at it when they trade.
Tunzel was like, well, one day we're gonna have to
pay the quarterback. Potentially will Anderson's gonna cost a lot,
he did. We want to keep the Neil Hunter around.
(38:08):
You just have to make tough decisions. I just think
some decisions are just difficult and then you factor in everything. Right,
in a perfect world, would they just have Lermy Tunzel
on the team with a bunch of other new guys
who are good. Yeah, but it's hard to pull that off.
So I you remember the Chiefs traded Joe Tuney to
(38:29):
the Bears. Andy Reid like the next day was like,
he's one of, if not my favorite players I've ever coached.
But it's a business and you gotta, you know, mess
with a cap. And the reality is is guys like him,
you know, certain positions make a ton of money now.
Even guards and centers now make twenty million dollars a year.
Tunzel's making what thirty thirty five million dollars a year. Uh,
(38:52):
just listen to you discuss Claude lemwe tragedy, and you
made a comment that I was hoping you could elaborate
more on you mention you and your wife discuss your
son never having grandpas. To quickly sum up my situation,
I lost my father when I was forty one, years
old to suicide. Fast forward six years later, I'm happily married.
(39:13):
The discussion of kids comes up regularly, knowing how important
grandpa's were for me growing up. It's always in the
back of my mind knowing any potential children I may
have would be born without their grandpa's. How do you
and your wife discuss and navigate the situation with your
own child. Well, he doesn't speak English yet, so we
(39:35):
haven't broached any subjects, let alone that one. I you know,
I'm sure you could. Just there's going to come a
time when he gets friends, and he is friends, they
go to his grandparents' house, and he'll never have that opportunity.
I guess we have like my mom's alive. Her mom's alive,
so like we can go to our our grandparents' house
(39:58):
for him. But I don't know. I mean, I obviously
obviously you guys didn't know me when I was a kid.
But my mom's dad died when I was probably thirteen
fourteen years old, maybe junior high. I used to go
over to their house all the time. They lived down
the street from me and my dad's dad, Woody, who
(40:21):
lived in the Bay Area. My entire life, I was
around him all the time. You'd come to my house
a lot, we'd go to his house. He lived with
my parents at the latter stages of his life. He
lived till his mid nineties. Hopefully I get those genetics.
But he had great hair actually, so I don't know.
I mean, there's just you just sometimes you got to
(40:44):
play the cards you're delt, you know. I mean, there's
not going to be as simple. You just try to
I'm sure. I mean, sometimes we talk about some of
the lessons that her dad, who was in the FBI
for a long time, former marine, kind of taught her
and her brother. Things that she mentioned something the other day,
showed me this Instagram post about like lessons for your
(41:06):
kids about things that you know, don't put their name
on their lunch box and stuff. I mean, this is
kind of dark about kids getting abducted and stuff, but
just things that lessons that we've learned from our parents
that we passed down that way. And obviously as they
get older, you tell them about you know, your your
relationship with your father that's no longer there. But we
(41:28):
have we have not had discussions with him because he's
he wouldn't even understand. I mean, so I say this
all the time. I mean, my my big picture philosophical
life lessons for the young man will come in due time,
but as of right now, I just want the kid
to sleep and stop freaking out when he gets belly
(41:51):
aches after he drinks a bottle and screams is loud
that you could hear and you know, Utah from where
we're sitting. So we're going through right now, and I
can't even fathom any thoughts beside just trying to get
over this hump that is four and a half months.
I love football, Go Niners. Are you keeping up with
(42:13):
the World Cup? I don't really watch soccer unless they're
big games. I recently just found out that the World
Cup had one and a half point five billion views.
Do you think the streaming services will try to get
World Cup games in the future. A normal World Cup
game averages one hundred and seventy five million people. It's
a good question. Yeah, I'll watch. I mean, obviously I'll
(42:33):
watch all the USA games. I'll definitely, I mean, i'll
watch it's it's gonna be on television constantly. What I
love about a good tournament is something like this, when
it's not all Primetime. You know, you just turn on.
That's why I love golf. Thursday Friday, I just sit
(42:54):
in my office in the house wherever I'm at, first
thing in the morning, Saturday, Sunday, first thing in the morning,
always on at ESPN Plus. So when there's a game
in Philly, in Jersey, in Boston, in Florida, these games
are gonna start for me on the West Coast probably
like nine in the morning. So I'll just have a
World Cup game on, even if I don't know who's playing.
(43:16):
But I when I met Alexi Lawless maybe last year
when I when I was doing Colin, I told him
off air, I said, you know, I went to a
camp in nineteen ninety four on Stanford's campus and you
guys played Brazil, and I remember we were staying in
like the dorms and you could hear they were playing
(43:39):
at Stanford's football stadium, and I think we lost like
one to nothing or two to one. It's like a
historic game. And that's that World Cup And even Alexi
has said it made him famous. I mean, is part
of a huge He's a big personality and good talking
about soccer, but like that moment made him and these
(44:01):
I said this the other day, and people push back
of like, my expectations for us are pretty low because
every time this type stuff happens, it feels like we're
always disappointed and we go in thinking we're gonna be
like Tiger Woods or Tom Brady and then are mad
when we get bounced or don't make it to the
(44:23):
you know, out of the group. So my expectations are
really low. That being said, when we're on and I'm
not a soccer guy, I'm gonna be rooting, like I'm
gonna be glued. I feel this way with hockey. It's
like Team USA. That was some of the most riveting
television of twenty twenty six watching that group, watching them
(44:43):
take on Canada. It was unreal and if we could
ever go on a run, it would be massive. And
I think soccer Guy used to always push back against
like you don't even know that's sports. Most people in
football don't know that much about football, you know what
they do. They watch a lot of football and they
(45:05):
enjoy it. I think soccer Guy and maybe they've changed,
needs to be more inviting, like let the casuals like
me and you in and let us get mad that
we're not good enough. That's what you need.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
You need.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
The reason the Yankees and the Lakers and the Cowboys
are the biggest brands in their sports is because they
have the most casual fans as well as diehards. You know,
diehards do not carry the day. It's a big couple
of days for Fox, though, or a couple of weeks,
or however long this Cup is. It's a big day
for all these football teams or hosting you know. I
(45:41):
know the Chiefs are hosting, the Niners, the Rams. I
think all the football teams basically around the country are
hosting these games. Despite the record coaching turnover last season,
ten teams that missed the playoffs yet did not make
a change Jets, Commander, Saints, Chiefs, Colts, Bengals, Cowboys, Bucks, By, Kings, Lions.
If you were to parlay three teams at ten to
(46:04):
one to have a new coach in twenty seven, which
ones would you pick? Also, if I offered you ten
to one to predict a spot for Tomlin in twenty seven,
I do think the Jets and Browns are gonna be
teams people pick. And I was texting the three and
Out guys yesterday. I don't think either team's gonna be good,
(46:24):
but they're not bad, Like they're gonna be good bad teams.
They're going to both the Jets and the Browns are
gonna play all their games at ten am Pacific Standard
time on Sundays. As that window gets shittier, those teams
are gonna thrive there. Miami's not gonna be a good watch.
The Cardinals are gonna be a terrible watch. They have
no quarterback and their defense kind of sucks. They'll probably
(46:46):
end up trading Josh Sweat. I do think the Browns
and the Jets have a lot of good core people,
but they're probably both gonna lose a lot of games.
So is Todd Munkin and what's his name, Aaron Glenn? Like,
are those jobs kind of decent jobs next year? Would
(47:08):
Mike Tomlin be interested? Now? When I see Mike Tomlin,
I think I can see Tampa they have a good GM.
He's coached there before. I know it was a long
time ago, but I could see him wanting to be
in a little warmer weather client climate the other team.
And again, like they could be just solid and Dan
(47:31):
Quinn be fine. You know, Josh Harris is a basketball guy.
They've run through some coaches, and they've run through some people.
So Jayden Daniels, I think, would you know he's from
that general area? He played football at William and Mary.
If I was a betting man, I'd probably say dan
Quinn survives unless it got really bad like last year.
(47:54):
But I would have my bet would be the Bucks.
Would Tomlin coach the Browns? He already took shots at
Barry last year for trading Flacco the Jets New York
bright Lights. I would say teams to have openings. I
(48:15):
say the Jets, the Browns. I think Cowboys gonna be
pretty good, Lions safe, Viking safe. If the culture of
the Bengals were to miss the playoffs, those jobs would
become open, especially the Colts or or I meant the
Bengals as a Chiefs fan. With the addition of the
enemy back as OC coming from Ben Johnson as a
(48:37):
running back coach, do you believe the enemy will bring
scheme changes to the offense, such as going under center
instead of shotgun? Statistics have shown Mahomes has thrived under center,
and Walker runs way better under center as well. Well.
I'm scheduled to talk to coach reed tomorrow, so I'm
going to ask him, ask him if the emphasis of
(49:01):
going all in on Kenneth Walker and Mahomes coming back
from injury, are they going to be a run first team,
especially when you look at their wide receiver unit, I mean,
the best wide receivers currently in the clink. So my
guess would be that they be. Now, when Eric the
Enemy became the offensive coordinator at UCLA, they passed it
(49:21):
all the time. So Eric b Enemy is a running
back coach by trade, but when he was a play caller,
but he likes passing it and he was around Andy
Forever who likes to pass it too. So my guess
is we're going to see they kind of went back
to the drawing board, and maybe we see a big
change next year when it comes to the just the
(49:43):
past happy nature that the Chiefs I think can become,
and I think the wear and tear kind of ultimately
the undoing of Mahomes' acl Would you rather have your
favorite team suck cats lightning in a bottle and win
a championship but then go back to sucking think like
the Florida Miami Marlins, or have your team be competitive
(50:04):
every year but never win a title. This is a
no brainer part of sports if you're gonna be a fan,
and Woolves use football as this example because in baseball
you would much rather have a team year in, year out.
The Braves won one championship in the nineties. They were
really beside the Yankees by far the best team in
(50:26):
the nineties, and they won it one time. Are many
World Series they even make it to that the only
World Series they made it to. They make it to
one other World Series, But every single game during the
season for a decade plus, you knew they were gonna
win a lot. If you ever tried to watch a
shitty baseball team, I have it in years because I
(50:47):
don't even pay attention. The Giants are horrendous. Honestly, I
don't think the San Fansco Giants would win the College
World Series. I think if you put the Samsco Giants
in the College World Series, I don't think they would
be a lock to win, which is ironic because the
manager that they hired became famous because he won the
College World Series. But their talent sucks. They were just
(51:08):
a poorly run franchise and it's miserable, and they won
titles years ago, twenty fourteen might as well be in
eighteen eighty seven. I think you always pick being competitive always,
then if you're talking over a ten year span, because
they're just not gonna watch the games. Had a first
(51:31):
son also named him Jack. Congratulations. Anyway, I'm curious, what's
the life of a practice squad player? Have any guys
made a full career in that role? Do they make
a decent living if that is as far as they
make it in the league? And what is a day
in the life of a practice squad player? The rules
changed in twenty twenty. When I was in the league,
(51:54):
you could only you only had like several year, like
three years of practice squad eligibility, and if you were
on a bad team and they elevated you and you
played a certain number of regular season snaps, your eligibility
was done. So sometimes like a fifth round pick who
would start on the practice squad would by mid season
the team's terrible guys get injured elevate them up, and
(52:17):
then he has no practic squad eligibility, but he probably
shouldn't be a fifty three man roster player yet, and
then he like can't get a job. Well, they change
those rules. Now it's like Jason Peters at forty years
old is on a practice squad. So you can be
on a practice squad, I think in perpetuity. I'm pretty
sure you have unlimited eligibility. Don't quote me on this,
(52:38):
but it's like two hundred and eighty grand. It's like
fifteen K a week. Here's the problem. If I make
the team, if I'm an NFL you know, a second
year player, and I'm either gonna make the team or
go to the practice squad. If I make the team
and I play Week one, even if I have the
(53:00):
minimum salary, which is like nine hundred grand, that salary
is guaranteed for the season, So I'm guaranteed to get
nine hundred grand whether they cut me because I'm not
good enough, or I keep playing all season. And obviously
if I do well percentage of snaps and different incentives,
I can make more money. But if I'm on the
roster week one and I play that game, my salary
is guaranteed. If I don't make the team and I'm
(53:23):
on a practice squad, and whatever that number is, it's
like it's gone up over the years. Let's say let's
just say for argument sake, it's two hundred fifty grand
over the course of seventeen weeks. I'm a day to
day player, so whatever that number is, thirteen fourteen to
fifteen K a week, I am not guaranteed week to week.
(53:43):
I can be cut at any moment for zero dollars. Obviously,
if I every week, I make that much money, but
I'm not guaranteed the next week. So it is a
life of injuries. They need different people. It's a numbers game.
You might just get cut because they need the roster spot,
not because they don't even like you, and you don't
(54:06):
typically travel. You obviously don't play in the games. You
basically work, you know, you help service the starters on
the scout team. You're part of the meetings. You know,
like usually most teams. Let's say you win and you
(54:27):
get Monday and Tuesday off as a player. You usually
come in and lift and work out and recover or whatever,
but there's no practice or whatever. You just start watching
film on your own for the Wednesday morning. Kind of
here's the game plan. You show up to that team
meeting at seven thirty eight o'clock in the morning. You know,
like every other player, no different than Miles Garrett or
(54:48):
George Kittle or whatever. And then if you break off
into meetings, you go with your position group. And then
when you go to practice, you know, you go with
that position group to practice. And then as the different
periods of practice go from individual to group, you might
go with if they need you to service people starters.
(55:10):
Here goes the backups. You basically just do whatever you're told,
but you are not preparing to play. But you should
be because at any moment, if someone gets injured, either
in practice or through the week, they could elevate you up.
And then once you're elevated up, if it's past week one,
your salary is not even guaranteed. Going from fifteen k
(55:31):
a week to nine hundred k a year, which whatever
that math is, let's say triple thirty grand a game,
be a little more in that forty grand a game,
I can still cut you the following week. A lot
of people have started on practice squads and worked their
way up, but you got to be pretty intrinsically disciplined
(55:55):
and motivated because you're not really in the mix. You're
doing a lot of scout team, but all of a sudden,
scout team can turn into like the head coach the
GM the assistant coach is really paying attention, and then
you get an injury and the head coach sitting there
with the offensive or defensive coordinator, he's like, you got
any ideas? He's like, hey, middlecoff has been dominating us
on scout team. We take a look at this guy.
(56:17):
What do you think? And the head coach like, okay,
I'll pay a little more attention to it. And maybe
that's how it starts. Obviously, if you've been drafted by
that team, they know a lot about you. Sometimes you
just pick a guy up, put him on practice squad,
and a couple of weeks later you're like, oh, this
guy's better than I thought it's It can be difficult
depending on the team though, to really stand out in
to practice. How much stock do you put in a
(56:53):
first year head coach bump for teams looking to make
a jump. What is the difference in an impact of
a super Bowl winning coach first a first time head
coach going to a new team. Uh, it's a good question.
I would say, Well, you have a super Bowl winning coach,
they just know what they're doing. Like when Andy Reid
(57:14):
or Sean Payton or Sean McVeigh or you know the
John harball, when they walk into a meeting room, when
they go to set a practice schedule, when they run
the off season, when they run the OTAs, when they
run training camp. They've been doing it for a long time,
Like the forty nine ers and the Rams are getting
(57:34):
ready for Australia. Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan have been
head coaches for ten years, so when they build their
practices to lead up to that kind of weird travel game,
those guys are pretty comfortable doing something that is a
little uncomfortable. Where when you're a first year guy like
Ben Johnson last year, you know you're good. You know
(57:57):
you're an excellent offensive coordinator, but you've never been the
head coach. You gotta deal now with more of the
defense you got the defensive coordinator you're dealing with. There's
kind of a feeling out process. But when you're taking
over for a guy who's not good at his job,
it's easy to stand out. And then I think, you know,
like Dan Quinn his first year in Washington, the energy.
(58:18):
I think energy can be a big thing. Positive energy.
Oftentimes I don't have a great answer for that one,
to be honest with you, because every first year head
coach is so different. Sometimes you're setting the foundation, like
when Dan Hampbell took over the Lions, they were so bad.
He was just kind of setting the foundation for a
couple years later there in the NFC Championship game, Lions
(58:40):
and Michigan fan here just curious. Do you think JJ
is getting too much crap for his play in recent attitude?
I felt like at Michigan or excuse me, I felt
like Minnesota had to have drafted him further for the
person that he is and his resilience on the field.
Nothing I saw in college made him look like a
starting NFL quarterback. Shouldn't the Vikings be getting torn apart
(59:02):
for the things that they could develop him? And it's
seemingly falling apart at this point. I think they are.
I mean, I think it's it's one of the biggest
disastrous situations in the league. They drafted him in the
top fifteen, they had a team that had just won
fourteen games, They had a team that was sixty minutes
away from being the number one seed, and he was objectively,
(59:26):
like by all the metrics, terrible and the eye test
was worse. So and now he's by all accounts going
to get beat out by Kyler Murray. So I think
they've been getting destroyed. That's what the general manager got fired.
H In regard to a question though that he basically
gave me all his compliments. I don't need to read him.
It's about my Philadelphia Eagles. I'm pretty pessimistic for the
(59:48):
most part, shocker even during our Super Bowl runs. But
this season I feel a little bit more optimistic than usual.
I think the West Coast system will be a decent change.
I think Jalen will prove himself even more this season,
with or without aj Am. I crazy for this level
of optimism. Well, their team on paper is fantastic. I
mean it is. It's been that way for four years.
(01:00:09):
They have went healthy, an excellent offensive line. They have
Saquon Barkley, who's a year removed from one of the
great seasons of the history of the league. Dallas godd
are still on the team while they no longer have
aj They draft a guy in the first round. They
bring over multiple veteran guys. Devonte Smiths proven to be
a high level NFL wide receiver and this offense is
(01:00:30):
wide receiver friendly. Their defense is loaded. I mean, I
guess it's got a couple holes, you know, pass rush,
But I mean the draft they signed and traded for
Jonathan Grenard, who had a two year stretch where he
had twenty five sacks. So to go with the defensive tackles,
Jordan Davis got in way better shape, they got good
linebacker play, they got excellent defensive backs. Yeah, there's they
(01:00:56):
should be a playoff team. And then the thing with
Jalen going back to Oklahoma is just a lot of
his success has been shotgun has ben gun runs. My
two questions are this, will he just embrace this offense,
which everyone's saying the right things now, but let's see
once they get into the games, And will he use
his mobility more? If he gets back to running, he
(01:01:20):
becomes a complete player. He's never gonna sit in the
pocket and pick you apart like Joe Montana. It's not
his thing. But he is a fantastic duel threat quarterback.
And Russell Wilson got this way because I actually think
there's some similarity to the scramble ability, the deep ball accuracy.
Is Russell no longer wanted to run in Seattle. He
wanted to be Tom Brady and it felt like Jalen
(01:01:41):
kind of did that too. So you guys are not
Tom Brady, Tom count run. You guys can, especially Jalen.
Jalen's running is fantastic. He's a natural at it. He
doesn't even take big hits. So if he gets back
to that, then yeah, I mean, I think they could
easily win the division again, Yo, big Helmie, don't have
(01:02:03):
a question. Just wanted to say, love the pod, love
your style, don't change for corporate America, and fuck the haters.
We have to worry about corporate America because I guess
we do partnerships with other corporations, but that has had
no impact on anything I've ever done. I appreciate the
kind note. We will end on this. When coming into
(01:02:25):
the league, Aaron Rodgers had a very odd uh had
very odd mechanics that McCarthy got out of him. Apparently
the Steelers are quote retracting Drew Aller and uh retracting
Drew Aller everything about the quarterback position, re enacting, retracting.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Even
(01:02:46):
though I know what you mean, I'm not I'm not
sure the word matches up with what you're trying to say.
I think they're basically breaking him down and reteaching him.
I think you're I think you meant to say reteaching
and it said retracting. That's what you meant to say.
I would say the difference of Rogers is Aaron Rodgers
in college was really good. I forget if it was
(01:03:08):
his sophomore junior season, but there was a game against
USC when Pete Carroll and they hadn't lost the game
in forever where I think he completed like twenty five
straight passes and cal easily could have won the game.
Like Aaron Rodgers went toe to toe with the best
team in college football and was slicing and dice them
with his arm. Now his mechanically he just he kind
(01:03:30):
of held the ball up above his shoulders. It was
a little weird, but just from a accuracy standpoint, natural
thrower the football, he just needed to reteach, like you
don't need to hold the ball up there. And I forget.
I know he's talked about this before, exactly the reason
Tedford had him doing that. Drewald just wasn't that good
(01:03:51):
at football. That's the problem. With Drew Rowler. Aaron Rodgers
was a really good college football player. If you put
Aaron at Cal on the Penn State team these last
couple of years, they probably win the national championship or
don't lose the Notre Dame last year and don't have
the season they had this year. So I think it
(01:04:16):
could be there's two angles of this one. I don't
think you can compare the two situations because Rogers was
a much more He's a much better player coming out
of college. I do think McCarthy, though, has proven to
be really good with quarterbacks. So if you want to
be glass half full on this Drew Aler thing, which
(01:04:37):
I'm out and most people I know in football did
not like to pick and think that they crazy overdrafted him,
they do have a guy that's a quarterback. Whisper might
be a little strong, but he's he's pretty natural with
that position. If you would have said Mike Tomlin had
drafted Drew Allard, been like what a waste of a pick,
(01:05:00):
you could convince me there is a scenario in an
outcome where this where he becomes like a serviceable backup.
Because there are some teams that they would have drafted
Drew Aler that you could convince me out of the
league in like two years, like a Hackenberg type situation.
But I'm not big on taking a guy in the
third round and then having to reteach him the position
(01:05:20):
like the Eagles took the dude from Nigeria in the seventh. Okay, okay,
I could take a guy in the fifth or sixth
round in a bad draft, third round pick, it's not
I mean, got some other needs on this team to
reteach a quarterback. I think that pick was kind of crazy.
I really did. But omar Con, baby, have a good day.
(01:05:44):
Talk to you tomorrow. Say the volume.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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