3 & Out - NFL trades vs. NBA trades, Chip Kelly goes to the Raiders, Cam Newton on his MVP

John dives into the NBA trade between the Lakers and Mavs and the reason why we rarely see trades of that magnitude in the NFL. Later, John talks about the Raiders hiring Chip Kelly as their OC and gives his opinion on if he thinks this will be a good hire or not. Next, John discusses Cam Newton's comments on if he would trade his MVP for a Super Bowl.

Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment.

5:30 - NFL Trades vs. NBA Trades

27:13 - Chip Kelly back in the NFL

31:14 - Cam Newton on his MVP

41:47 - Mailbag

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? This is John Middlecough.
That'd be me three and Out podcasts. That'd be the

(00:22):
show coming to you live from my house. This not
New Orleans yet, going in a couple of days, so
we'll be in New Orleans. Good good week. We got
New Orleans, we got Super Bowl, we got sixty more
minutes left of football. We got the waste management here
in my backyard, which I might have to get out
to on Friday. So we got a lot going on

(00:44):
out here in the streets. A lot of NBA trades,
I mean, one of the crazier trades you'll ever see.
I do want to relate that Luca trade to some
NFL stuff. Why it takes balls to win in the NFL,
Like in any sport, you gotta make big moves and
sometimes they backfire and sometimes you hit a home run.

(01:05):
And I also think some of the question marks when
it comes to his conditioning. Obviously one of the great
young players we've ever seen, Luca. That is doesn't really
happen in football right now, and I think we're very lucky.
Chip Kelly is the new offensive coordinator for the Raiders.
Want to dive into that little weird. Cam Newton had

(01:26):
some comments last week about the MVP. I also wanted
to dive into, so we will have a We have
shows all week. I'm traveling. I probably won't really impact
us at all, at least I don't plan on Miss Nanny.
We will have Stucky later in the week. I'm recording
with them. I think on Monday to do some props

(01:47):
and bets and bang those out. Other than that, we'll
do a mail bag on this show as well at
John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in
those dms, get your questions answered here on the show.
Listen on Collins Feed. Make sure you subscribe to three
and out our own podcast feed. If you like watching videos,
We got a little thing called the YouTube channel, so

(02:09):
you can go check that out as well. And before
we dive into some football, you know, I got to
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let's dive in as some football, and obviously if you
are awake on Saturday night as I was, I was
actually in bed when my phone blew up and I
grabbed the iPad that was probably ten feet away from me,
and I just started scrolling. I was like, this is insane.

(03:16):
And the NBA trade that still as I'm recording this
a little hundred and twenty four hours later, is just
something if you like sports and I don't follow the
NBA nearly as closely as I once did. Same thing
for baseball. I used to watch the Giants play every
single night. I watched probably five or six straight years
every game the Warriors played, and for most of my

(03:38):
life I watched NBA games Tuesdays Thursdays on the weekend.
I just don't consume the product the same now. I
still follow the stories, and I'm a sucker for transactions.
And I think the best part about like the one
thing the experience I had working in football and now
doing this is I know, like the conversations are the same.

(03:59):
When you work in a building for a team, You're
bsing about potential trades and potential moves and potential guys
on your team. Is this guy the right fit? Is
this guy a good guy? Is this someone to build around?
Like the business of pro sports is do you want
to get into business with this guy for two hundred
million dollars? Do you want to get into business with
this guy for ae hundred million dollars? That's what companies

(04:19):
all around America talk about all the time. Do we
want to acquire this Well? What's the cost? And in
pro sports you're just dealing with human beings. And in
the NBA, a guy like Lucas three hundred and fifty
million dollars. In the NFL, a guy like brock Purty
potentially two hundred million dollars. So if you are not
having serious, long conversations about everything that goes into this,

(04:40):
you're not doing your job. And sometimes as a fans
a little more on the surface and like it was
impossible to not have some thoughts and takes when something
like that happens, but you're constantly discussing that on the inside.
And the difference is if you're a GM or a
coach is like you can talk to other people that
have decision making power and some things by him, like

(05:01):
would you be interested in this? It's about to happen
at the combine in a month. The amount of conversations
that go down at the combine would blow people's socks
off of things that never get done. And a lot
of players if they found out, like, damn, you threw
my name out there. Yeah, most names are thrown out there.
There's probably under five to definitely less than ten percent

(05:23):
of players that never get thrown around, and honestly, the
numbers probably under five. Most players at times just get discussed.
It could just be over coffee, it could be over
a cocktail, it could be over a stake with a
fellow GM. With a fellow coach, with a fellow decision maker.
And I think, you know, moves in sports really define
your career as someone in the front office. And obviously

(05:46):
this move for the Dallas Mavericks and their guy Nico
is going to define his career. If Luca, like he thinks,
is gonna stay fat and injured, he'll look like a genius, right,
especially if he goes on to continue to have success.
If Luca he keeps maintaining what he's been doing and
the Lakers do what the Lakers do, win a lot,
which pains me to say it, he's gonna look like

(06:07):
a moron. And I think when you look at these
two NFL teams in the Super Bowl, like, it's not
random they're here, and it's not by accident, and it
also wasn't by like without taking some massive, massive swings.
I think we take for granted these two quarterbacks, especially
Patrick because he's been starting for so long. How we

(06:28):
got here. Like, think about the Cowboys, not all the
stuff going on with Jerry and the coach. I'm just
their quarterback, Dak Prescott. It is easy to just sustain
with Dak Prescott. You can just do it over and
over and over again, and listen, we'll criticize be like, ah,
you probably. It's like more often than not, if you
do a decent job building your team, you're gonna compete

(06:51):
for a playoff spot and make the playoffs a lot.
But we know you're not winning anything in the playoffs, right.
And the Chiefs, who had a very very consistent player
who had a very high floor but a pretty low ceiling,
we're just good. Every single year they were rattling off
playoff burst. I think was it five out of six

(07:12):
or four out of five of the years with Alex
Smith they made the playoffs, they only won one playoff game. Look,
the Cowboys only won one playoff game with Dak Prescott
over the last however many years. But it's like, hey,
we're just we're going to the playoffs every year. And
even the year that they traded up for Patrick Mahomes,
they had made the playoffs the previous year. That's why
they had a trade up. So far, it's not like

(07:33):
they were some shitty team like that took some balls.
I think it's easy to go. Of course they did that.
What if that didn't work? What if that thing blew
up in their face? Because I'll give you an example
of one where it did. Trey Lamps. The forty nine
ers had something. It was just kind of working with
Jimmy Garoppolo. I would say Alex was a better player,

(07:53):
but it was like every year you were competitive, you
were making the playoffs. Hell, Jimmy like took a team
to Super Bowl and they took a huge and it
blew up in their face. Somehow the football guys just
God's handed them brock Purty. Look at the Chiefs, they went,
you know, Tyreek Hill, who's one of the greatest wide
receivers of all time. We're winning with him at a

(08:15):
super high clip. He's uncoverable. Like, hey, we're gonna punt
on this guy. We're just gonna punt. People were like,
are you sure, Andy, are you sure? I mean that
took balls, that took freaking stones, you know. So when
you look at the Chiefs, he just got well and
he's one of the greatest coaches ever. Beach is a
really good value where they have made a couple moves

(08:35):
along the way. Two specific ones the transition to Alex
and then obviously punting on Tyreek Hill that took some
big cohonas and I would say the same thing about Howie,
And we've touched on this over the last couple of weeks.
It's easy to say now, like ugh, Jalen Fell riding
in their lap. Now he gets credit because he had
a high pick, even though his team was good, because

(08:56):
of all those trades he had made the previous year,
and I think he made one with the Saints. But like,
that was a ballsy pick, just like it's easy to
go after the fact. Well, it's like, God, everyone should
have known Warren Sapp was gonna be an all time grade.
It's like God, Randy Moss, no brainer. A lot of
teams had major red flags on those guys. So it's
easy to go after the fact to be like, damn,

(09:16):
they got this guy who picked twelve, would pick twenty four.
It's like, yeah, they got him there for a reason.
And Jalen Carter was easily the best player in the
draft easily, So it's easy to go and listen, I'm
guilty of this too, Like the Falcons, man, they really
fucked up. They should have pulled the trigger on him. Well,
it's like I bet they were terrified to draft them. Hell,

(09:37):
the Eagles probably were. I mean a little scared and
they took a pretty big flyer on the guy. Now
they felt good about their infrastructure, but like this could
have blown up in their face. Instead, they have one
of the best defensive players on their roster and a
lot like Patrick Mahomes. I guess it's a little different
because Alex was much more consistent. But like they drafted

(09:58):
Carson Wentz really really high, and then they paid them
a lot of money, and then it got weird and
they didn't hesitate to punt. But when they punted and
they traded him to a first round pick, which sounds
crazy now to the Colts, pretty ballsy gone with Jalen.
That wasn't just some no brainer, like this thing is
gonna work out. I was wrong. I thought he was
a running back. And listen, we can nitpick them all

(10:19):
we want. That wasn't just the right move. They've clearly
got one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL and
a guy they've proven they can win with. So it's
like these two teams are here and everyone goes, wow,
really good, you know, really good coaching staffs. And obviously
Andy's an all time great. Howie's one of the best
general managers it's just like they got a ton of talent, Like, yeah,

(10:43):
how did they do this? Like how did they get there? Like, listen,
you're gonna call me a Laker hater. They just benefit.
They're the fucking Lakers, and people just want to go there,
and for whatever reason, they're like, Eh, we'll just take
Anthony Davis who's thirty one also gets injured all the
time for your twenty five year old, five time straight
All NBA First Team. Yeah, it's like what what like that?

(11:03):
That's the easiest trade you're ever gonna make for the Lakers.
There has never been a trade for such a great
player that has been an easier yes than the one
the Lakers said. That is not the case with when
they pulled the trigger for Jalen Carter or when they
made the trade for Patrick Mahomes. And listen, clearly they
nailed that one, and Veach had a lot of conviction,
and Andy and those guys liked him a lot. I

(11:25):
don't guarantee you're trading all the way up here. You're
gonna have Alex Smith and then you're gonna punt on
him after the year, and even the year they punted
on him, even the year they punted on him like
he just had the best year of his career based
on one game. In practice, like I think it's always easy,
and people do this a lot in business, Like, Well,
if I would have known, you know, after the two
thousand and eight crash, that homes were gonna go up

(11:46):
as much as they did, I would have I wish
I would have done. I wish I would have bought
like three pieces of property. Yeah, some people just did it.
You know. It's like, God, if I would have known,
the video would have gone up by one hundred acts,
I wish I would. Well, some people did, and some
people actually put their capital and some people did put
their risk on the table. And it's like, that's what
these guys do. And Andy has a long history of this, Howie.

(12:08):
These guys love risk and they take big swings, and
they'd hit on you know, Nico Harrison can pray to
God that he hits on like this half as well
as they did on theirs. And the other thing is
to the Luca trade is there's a lot of stuff
coming out about Luca being fat that this year he
played at two hundred and seventy pounds. I actually watch

(12:30):
more basketball the last on Friday and Saturday night than
I probably have beside Clay's return to the Warriors most
of the year. I watched the fourth quarter of the
Denver Sixers game on Friday night, and then I watched
the second half of the Laker Knicks game. And you
look at Jokic, who's easily I mean, I think there's
a wide gap the best player in the NBA. He's

(12:52):
kind of fat, but you know what, it doesn't matter.
He dominates. Kind of fat might be strong, he's just
not shredded. He doesn't look like your tip great NBA player, right,
he doesn't have muscle definition. But I watch him do
whatever he wants on anyone. Now, the thing with Luca
is like, clearly they have concerns about his durability because

(13:14):
of his weight. And this is what we talked about.
When you invest hundreds of millions of dollars into someone,
and in the NFL, it's quarterbacks. The last thing I
ever want to worry about is anything with you off
the field. So when it comes to character, how you
live your life, how you treat people, who you're married to,
who you're dating, how you just operate outside the facility

(13:37):
matters to me, I better have one hundred percent, never
worry about you vibes, and then all the intangible stuff.
When it comes to football, you better check every fucking
box work, ethics, study, habits, drive, whatever it takes. I'll
never forget when I saw Veach. I went to the
Many of you probably weren't listening, but I went to

(13:57):
the twenty twenty Super Bowl week in my it was
chief Snyders and I had Veach on this show. I
went to where they were staying, and me and Veach
were biessing a little bit, and it was right that
was the the off season where they were gonna pay Patrick.
And he was telling me, like after they had won
the AFC Championship game, which was his first win. He's like,
I get in the office the next day, obviously you

(14:19):
know it's their first Super Bowl appearance, him and Andy together,
and I got there like six fifteen and Mahomes already
there watching the tape on his iPad in the training room. Like,
I don't think he gets enough credit for like the work, ethic, football, drive, study,
Habit's like it's elite. He's not doing this by accident.

(14:39):
Like think Manning, think Brady, think Breeze. That's him, you know.
And I think when you look at the other couple
top guys, Alan and Lamar, there aren't any question marks
with those guys. No one goes. I wonder how seriously
this guy takes football. If you watch the Hard Knocks
with Baltimore John Harbaugh, I think it was the Steeler game,

(15:00):
or might have been the second week for the Bills game,
one of their first two weeks. They were gonna practice inside,
and sometimes cold weather teams, they're used to the cold,
so they're not worried about playing outside. They want to
practice inside to get stuff done. You're just able to
be so much more efficient inside. You know, your guys
can play in outdoors. And Lamar like raise his hand

(15:20):
or looks at John like, no, I want to let's
practice outside. I want to feel it. I want everyone
to feel it like their football character is elite. And
I think you know, you look at Zion, he's fat
and lazy, doesn't even like basketball, which to me, the
NBA has this broken business model because you get paid

(15:41):
no matter what when you're a hype pick guy, and
you show any signs of life no matter what happens
in the NFL, that's not what happens. That is not
what happens at all. I've seen a lot of people
go on ramts. I saw Colin had one about Browny,
but just how the NBA can be unserious sometimes right,
like Luca deserves. There's huge contracts Jokich, Jannis Lebron, Steph

(16:03):
and then there are guys like Zion. He got what
he's getting? How much he getting paid? Like what are
we doing? And I think in the NFL, for you
to get paid, you gotta produce, and you also got
to be a good guy, and you also got to
be a football junkie. It's pretty rare that. And listen,
I know more guys on good teams than I do

(16:25):
bad teams. But I would say a pretty consistent theme
of all the successful squads they pay guys who are
football addicts. And I think we're pretty lucky. And I've
said this for a long time. I can't even imagine
being twenty five, twenty six and someone giving you hundreds
of millions of dollars. The maturity that all these guys shows.

(16:46):
Think how good you feel if you're a Bengal fan,
how much he gives a fuck you know he will
the season was going, it couldn't have been going any
worse early on. Like, this guy's laying on the line
for me, and he's not just doing it randomly. He's
approaching it like every game's the super Bowl. And like, listen,
I don't think they're right on trading this guy because
they have concerns about he's fat, he's twenty five years old.

(17:09):
But like, there are none of the concerns, you know,
if he's a top two or three player in the
NBA that's essentially Mahomes, Alan Lamar, Joe Burrow. There aren't
concerns with any of those guys in terms of their conditioning,
how much they like it, how hard they play. Uh,
the other nock, he plays no defense. It's a fact
doesn't play any defense right now. In football, when you

(17:31):
play quarterback or you play linebacker, you don't play offense
or you don't play defense. But still like you either
give it all or you don't. And I think the
NFL is very, very lucky that the cream of their
crop at quarterback, and honestly even the second and third
tier guys pretty high level guys. When you look at
the Jared Goss, look at Jalen hurts. We can nitpick

(17:51):
him sometimes, like, you know, not great from within the pocket,
and that's that's a fair criticism. No one has ever said,
you know what, Jalen, he just I don't know if
he's in the football. I don't know if he's working
out hard enough. I don't know if he's preparing well enough.
The only criticism I've ever heard is like, you know,
we'd like him to be a little more vocal, right,

(18:12):
yell at guys, but it wasn't because you know, he
doesn't know what's going on. The Jared Goffs, the Dacks,
even the Tullis. You know, perty's about to get paid.
Trevor Lawrence like, listen, some guys might be better than others,
but no one. That's the thing with Trevor Lawrence, like
how much does he like it? And I think it's
kind of fair because you watch him. You know, I
watched the NFL and you go, this guy giving me

(18:34):
everything he has, and then you watch him he's like,
I don't know, does he love it? I think it's
a fair criticism. The other great part about the NFL
is when you like the Bills, even if you'd never
win a Super Bowl with Josh Allen. You know that
Josh Allen's going to be your quarterback no matter what.
You know, even if you never win a Super Bowl
with Lamar Jackson. You know what, you know, Lamar Jackson

(18:56):
is going to be on the team for as long
as essentially you want him on the team, especially in
the prime of his career. When you think about how
often elite quarterbacks get traded in their prime never happens.
Think about Aaron Rodgers, one of the greatest players of
all time, got traded like thirty eight, thirty nine years old.
We thought the Russell Wilson trade was crazy. It turns
out like as prime was over, it was done. Deshaun

(19:19):
Watson traded for a reason. Didn't want him audios see
you godspeed. Uh so, man, It's just it's crazy how
high level most of these good quarterbacks in the NFL are.
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(19:43):
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Speaker 1 (21:14):
The other story today I saw when I was shopping
for wedding rings. It's like, well, I got her a
wedding ring, and then she also needs a wedding band,
and I need a wedding band. It's like this is
ever end. So I guess I gotta start wearing a
ring around here in a month. But someone texts me
while I was shopping for the old ring. Hey, chip Kelly,

(21:34):
chip Kelly? What Chip Kelly is the new offensive coordinator
for the Las Vegas Raiders now. He also interviewed with
the Raiders in twenty twenty four for Antonio Pierce, and
that was at the time when he was interviewing everywhere
trying to jump ship and get away from UCLA. I

(21:56):
have two reactions on this. One. Is that kind of
sad what has happened to one of the most famous
coaches of the last twenty five years. When you look
at other guys who have been discussed like him, Nick Sabin,
Kirby Smart, you know, Lane Kiffen, Lincoln Riley even, but
even NFL coaches, right, they don't just become coordinators and

(22:20):
then just start bouncing around. It's a little bizarre and
at one point in time, and I've worked for the Eagles,
there was not a bigger star in the coaching world.
There really was not, And for what's happened to his career.
Then he goes to UCLA and he just hates it.
And listen, he's got a lot of friends in the
media and they're all like, it's a shitty job. It's
stuff to deal with. Yeah, it's not perfect. It ain't

(22:42):
Ohio State. But then he leaves to go to Ohio
State and you're like, oh, that's his guy, and he
just leaves again to go to the Raiders. At least
when you went to Ohio State, you go, well, he's
getting two and a half million dollars. They recruit by far,
the best players in the country, and they basically said, Chip,
you don't need to recruit. It's like a pretty good gig.
You go to the Raiders. It's like, well, they got

(23:03):
no quarterback, their offensive line sucks, they have no wide receivers,
and uh, they got one good tight end. It's like this,
this is what you're going to do. Like you really
just hate recruiting that much because this does not seem
like a good situation for you. I also think this
is a little weird, right. It's one thing when you

(23:23):
take a step down like he did from UCLA to
go to Ryan Day. That was a guy that he
coached when he was at New Hampshire. That was a
guy who worked for him in Philly and in San Francisco.
Like they have like a father son bond. So it
was gonna work. I don't mean on the field, I
just mean personalities. Now he's gonna go to Pete Carroll.
Who listen? Is it like Mike Vrabel Belichick yelling at you?

(23:47):
Much more of an upbe guy, but still like big ego. Well,
Chip's got a massive ego too. Feels like a little
bit of a weird fit. And in theory, like what
does Pete Carroll want to do? Run the ball? That's
what he wants to do, run the ball, and that's
what in theory Chip likes to do too. But you're
not gonna run the ball with this operation. I'm pretty
sure the Raiders last year were one of the worst

(24:08):
running teams like the history of the NFL. I think
it's a weird fit, and I think it's just kind
of sad, what you know, the way his career has
gone relative to the rest of his peers. He's kind
of turned into like an NBA player just bouncing around.
It's like, what are we doing here? Uh? So I
think the Highers is weird. I really do. And and

(24:31):
I'm pro Pete Carroll and I'm pro John Spytech. I
think it was smart to bring back Patrick Graham, who's
you know, a good, good defensive coordinator. This one, I'm sorry,
I just think And it's not like baby, you just
hate the guy. I don't give a fuck. I don't care.
I'm just saying like he would not have been my higher,
Like his shit ain't working in the NFL. It didn't
work in the NFL the last couple of years. And

(24:52):
you're gonna play Spagnola, You're gonna play Jim Harbaugh's defense,
and you're gonna play that Denver defense. And I get it,
like we want to modernize our offense and what get throttled.
So I give the Raiders a lot of credit for
their two main hires. This one a little off the
beaten path. Don't think it makes much sense. Cam Newton,

(25:14):
you know, Cam Newton said the comments if you missed
him that he would wouldn't trade his MVP for Super
Bowl tighter. And let me just say this before I
get into my opinion on his comment. I do believe
if you ask Cam Newton and I attended his Super
Bowl when it was at Levi Stadium in the Bay Area,
I went, I had a lot of money on the
on the on the Broncos that game. It's one of

(25:36):
the biggest bets I'd ever made. Still to this day,
it was. It was large, and part of it wasn't
Cam Newton. It was I had been doing Raider games.
I had seen that Denver team for like three straight years.
Their defense was so fucking good. I understood Peyton Manning
couldn't throw, but it was like, and listen, it wasn't
a bet against Cam. It was more just like, I
don't think they should be an underdog, and obviously their

(25:56):
defense won the game. But I do believe if you
would ask Cam Newton the week of the Super Bowl
or the night before the Super Bowl, especially, yeah, I
think you win the MVP the night before the Super Bowl,
would you trade the MVP for win tomorrow? I think
he would have said yes. I do believe I could
be wrong, but I believe that any player if you
said that to him the night before the Super Bowl.
Who would they had just won the MVP, Matt Ryan,

(26:18):
you go back to all the guys that have won
MVPs and then not won the Super Bowl, they would
trade it. I think Aaron Rodgers would trade his MVPs
for Super Bowl. I think anyone at the time. Now
I think after the fact, I don't think this is
that complicated. You know, if you think about the Super
Bowl for Cam Newton, it has a negative connotation. He

(26:39):
didn't just get viewed as like having a bad game.
But when people bring up that moment, it's the lowest
moment of his career. He's literally made fun of because
of it. He wouldn't jump on the ball, and former
players bring that up to him. Yet everywhere he goes
and everywhere he has gone over the course of his

(27:02):
life since twenty seventeen, he is introduced former NFL MVP,
former Heisman Trophy winner and national champion, Cam Newton. Yet
if I bring out Joe Montana or Troy Aikman, or
Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers, I would
go this is Aaron Rodgers, super Bowl champion and four

(27:24):
time MVP. This is Peyton Manning two time Super Bowl champion,
five time MVP or however many one. That's how you're
introduced as a player, when you go to events, when
you go to speaking events, when you go to when
he goes to Auburn, to events to fundraise, whatever, when
he's at doing radio row for during media week or

(27:45):
during super Bowl week for the media. So the MVP
to him has a positive connotation. It's a positive thing.
The super Bowl is a negative thing. Like I think
it's kind of a unique circumstance because I saw everyone
and rightfully so like, ah, no shit. Cam Newton said
that one hundred percent. Cam Newton said that, like my

(28:08):
take was, like I was there, it was pretty bad.
That game is in a weird way because it's so
hard just to get there, like the lowest moment of
his career, like it. He lost random games throughout his
career that no one ever talks about, thinks about, or
even watched it. They don't matter. But when you bring
up Cam Newton, I would say, most people think about

(28:29):
not jumping on the fumble in the Super Bowl. Now
I'd have to go back and look at what the
score was at the time, havn't been there, and I
had a few cocktails. Never thought they were gonna win.
As the game was going, they were just kind of overwhelmed,
even as Peyton, you know, after the first couple drives
could not throw. But like if you were Cam, the
MVP isn't just your most prized possession, it's literally your

(28:52):
defining moment as a professional football player. Making the Super
Bowl just was not and it definitely isn't discussing like that.
You know, for a long time, I was insecure about
when I when I introduce and I listen, I play golf.
That's where I meet the most random, you know people,
Like when I do this for a living and I'm

(29:13):
talking to other people inside this business, they all know
what you do. But when I'm on a golf course,
I meet someone for the first time, Eventually, what comes up?
What do you do? And you're playing golf with somebody,
It's like, yeah, I work at Wells Fargo, or yeah,
you know, I work for this insurance company. Yeah, own
you know, string of restaurants? What do you do? I
used to always be is weird. I would be like,
you know, I used to work in radio, and I

(29:33):
used to always kind of start it off that way
because I was insecure about saying I was a podcaster.
And I remember one night Maria's like, why don't you
just why are you so weird about this? Just say
what you do, what you do for your a podcaster. Right,
it's going pretty well. And so for the last probably year,
I just when I'm a podcaster and it just starts

(29:53):
actually pretty interesting conversation sometimes, but like when you are
introduced or when that's your defining moment, like he is
defined internally, like that's a good thing. Cam Newton MVP.
That's a positive thing. Like, so it's easy for all
these other guys to say, like even Charles Barkley, and
I hear him come up a lot, like he would
have given anything for the ninety three MVP to win

(30:15):
that finals against Michael Jordan. That finals against Michael Jordan
is a positive thing for Charles. He was fucking unreal.
He was known also in the Dream Team second best
player in the Dream Team. So like everything surrounding his
MVP is like I was at the highest level and
I went toe to toe. Cam got to the highest
level in the pros and it was like not the same.

(30:36):
He had a bad night, wasn't very good and then
like didn't jump on the fumble. So listen, everyone's shitting
on him for it. I understand, like when you're insecure
about something, you kind of want to avoid it, and
like it's I just think people think he's selfish because
of this. I think we're all kind of selfish. We

(30:56):
really are. And I think it's easy for a lot
of guys to say and now what I where I
disagree with him, and he's trying to justify it when
he goes, well, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won a
super Bowl, Well yeah, Cam, if you would have won
that Super Bowl, you would have been, like, I don't
know how many guys have won the MVP and Super
Bowl in the same year. Probably pretty special category guys

(31:17):
like Montana Manning, but you know Brady for like, it's
a shortlist of pretty sweet dudes, so it'd have been
a big deal. He tries, he tries to justify it
because he's not dumb. He knows it's gonna sound stupid.
But I do get where he's coming from. I really do. Okay,

(31:47):
little mail bag time at John Middlecoff at John Middlecoff
Fire in those dms. Get your questions answered here on
this little old podcast at John middlecoff Instagram fire Away.
Start with Marco question for the bag. Do you think
it's a coincidence that the NBA gets a massive trade

(32:10):
Sunday before the Super Bowl? Seems like a pretty good
marketing tactic for the NBA to gain some steam once
the NFL season ends. Your thoughts, Well, if I was
going to be a conspiracy theorist, I would say this,
the Lakers with Lebron at forty years old, were gonna

(32:31):
be in trouble within the next couple of years. And
if I ran the NBA, if I was Adam Silver,
And let's face it, the NBA has always done some
shady shit and don't I don't blame them. They're in
the business to make the most money possible. Now it's
much more complicated with gambling legal, but I don't know
how that gets to forcing teams to trade people. Listen.

(32:57):
I don't necessarily think like Adam Silver made this happen,
but if he did, it'd be the greatest movie he's
ever made. It as a commission to get one of
the best players in the NBA to one of your
marquee franchises, and when would you want to do it.
You'd want to do it right now now. Their trade
deadline is during super Bowl week, so I think some

(33:17):
would say, like it's not a good idea to do
it during super Bowl week, but it usually gets lost
in the shuffle like when'sday or Thursday? Doing it right
now better idea. I just think when you look at
people are gonna say I'm a Laker hater, I am.
I hate the Lakers. They're the only team that you're like,

(33:38):
I don't like Ohio State. I don't care that much.
I don't even have a problem with the Dodgers, and
I'm a diehard Giants fan. I kind of appreciate what
they're doing. When it comes to Lakers. There's something about
that feeling. Even at forty years old, I get like
I'm still fifteen, and there's an envy, that there's a hatred.
There's just I just don't like them, and I appreciate
still having that feeling. You know, usually I have to

(34:00):
create it or manipulate it by gambling. Once, once I
gamble against you, I hate you. But other than that,
like even my takes, I'm not Steven A or skip
baylessic like, I'll change my take if it's not right.
I don't care that much. But this is a team
that how I get they landed Lebron because he wanted

(34:22):
to move to LA This one, though, he's got handed
Luca for Anthony Davis who's thirty one years old. Feels
like the league somehow was I don't know. I could
you convince me yes? Does it seem a little shady?
You couldn't make this trade in a simulator? In what world?

(34:45):
Do you just go, yeah, we're trading I don't know.
The best player in the history of the franchise definitely is.
I know Dirk had a much longer career. Dirk didn't
have five straight All nbas from twenty to twenty five
years old. Together, we're just gonna trade him for guy
thirty one years old. Great player, but you know it
gets injured a lot too. Like, what else are you
gonna get like seven first round picks? Like three other players? No,

(35:05):
just like one other player and one other pick. Yeah,
we're good, but we're not. We're not really shopping them. Wait,
you're not. You're not gonna shop them? No, it doesn't
really add up. Like when you add up like you
have one of the great players, not just in the league,
but like his entry to the sport is like Lebron Like,
so you're just gonna trade them for what the biggest

(35:26):
hall in the history of the sport. No, not really,
not even close. Actually, if I would have told you, you
wouldn't believe, like this is crazy. But the Lakers, you know,
get another marque players what they do. It's probably why
I'm jealous Kings just traded theirs. Mail back question fan
of the show. As you mentioned in the previous show,

(35:49):
most general managers and head coaches have a general idea
of how to build a team, at least they speak
like they do. If they know how to build, why
do half of them choose to not build the team?
According to that philosophy, does a major draft bust or
owner pressure the picks negatively affecting their performance. Well, only

(36:10):
the gms and head coaches I think really know that,
right if you're in the draft room. Most owners I
don't think are like forcing your hand if they're not
like Dan Snyder. But I do think there is a
lot of closed door meetings with either the owner, his president,
his right hand man, the coach in the GM, and
I think there are like I want Travis Hunter. It's like, coach,

(36:33):
we should take an offensive tackle here. I want Travis Hunter.
Because let's use Travis Hunter as an example. He is
a fantastic talent. I mean, he's one of the most
honestly unique talents we've ever seen in the history of sports.
It's like, wait, you play both ways. It's so like, yeah,
I'm a lead at both I'm a lockdown corner, be
the number one corner in the drafts, and I'm clearly

(36:54):
one of the best wide receivers in the draft. I'm
gonna and I was the number one high school group.
I'm a blue chip blue chipper who can play both ways.
It's unheard of, it really is, because even some of
the guys you know in college that have done both,
they had a limited role. But you'd go wide receiver, corner,
very important positions, and I got no problem taking either

(37:16):
one of the you know those positions. High you take
a Julio, you take you know Stingley, a Sauce Garden
or Patrick Peterson, whoever, you know, the elite guys, but
you'd always take a tackle, like I need a tackle.
I need a wide receiver. I need a corner. You
would take the tackle before them. Yet Travis Hunter is
gonna go before tackles. Now if there is not a

(37:38):
tackle at his level, do you just take the good player.
It's like no one ever apologized for drafting don I'm
not saying this guy is gonna be Deon, but I
think it's hard because you get there, you go, well,
the best player on our board. The best player on
our board is Malik Neighbors, right, but we need other positions.

(37:59):
It's like Molie Neighbor can have I think, like a
historical season, didn't you have like one hundred plus catches?
And the Giants couldn't have been any worse? Because it
doesn't really matter. And I'm not anti taking the Miligue Neighbors,
but it's it's easy to say, O line D line,
O line D line, and then all these teams end
up drafting corners and wide receivers. It happens all the time.
It's like Austin Genty, let's look at that, we need

(38:22):
a good running back. When I see people like the
Dallas Cowboys should take Austin Genty at twelve. If I
was a Cowboy fan and we took Austin Genty at twelve.
He's a great player. Don't get me wrong. I am
pro drafting running backs, but this individual draft has great
running backs, So I don't know. Take a position you need.
Take a defensive lineman. Last time I checked, your defensive

(38:44):
tackles sucked, so is Ashton Genty and immediately plug and
play starter for your team. But do you have a
huge need at the line of scrimmage, which I don't
know is kind of more important. Use one of your
second day picks on one of these running backs and
he can immediately be r Like that's how you build
a team. But sometimes, like Jerry's like, let's just get
myself some Genty. I want Genty in the backfield with

(39:07):
Dak You like my Jerry, I put them back there
with Dac striking glory holes. That's I don't even know
what my voice is, but it just it's it's e Listen.
Life's all about talk, you know. It's what a lot
of people do, whether you're in sales, whether or whatever.
It's easy to say whatever you want at any given
moment because it sounds good, and then your feet get

(39:30):
held to the fire. And like you said, a lot
of people, you know, change their opinion. I don't even
think change their opinion. They just go I believe in
the line of scrimmage. But holy shit, I love this
wide receiver. I mean it happens all the time. It's like, Okay,

(39:51):
I'm the Chargers or the Patriots. I have a ton
of money and I have a ton of needs. Should
I go spend that on T Higgins? Now there's an
argument with a young core back to help him out.
Not that crazy, but couldn't you just find T Higgins?
I don't know in the second round. It's like where
did you find a J. Brown? Mike Vrabel. I'm not

(40:11):
saying they will, but it's like, oh, we got him
in a second round. Big fan of the show. Will
contracts like Baker's and Donald's cause some teams to rethink
this all or nothing approach. They have to be playing
an average to slightly above average quarterback like Lawrence or Tua.
I would say those two guys are kind of unique
when you just look at him. Baker was the number

(40:31):
one overall pick and Donald was the third overall pick.
So let's look around the NFL of guys that fit
their mold. Trey Lance, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields. I got
no problem giving Justin Fields five million dollars to be
my backup. I would entertain that. Zach Wilson I could not.

(40:52):
I mean, I just don't know enough about and Trey Lance.
I couldn't give. I wouldn't. I wouldn't sign him to
be on my team. He wouldn't be able to make
my team. Maybe it's like a four string. I mean,
I wouldn't even want him as my third quarterback. So
I think it's those are just very very Those are outliers.

(41:13):
They truly are. And Baker had played well a season
in Cleveland. Sam never had. Sam never had, but you know,
went to the perfect spot, got a year to refresh
with Kyle. I just don't I guess Zach Wilson could
be if he emotionally matured, But he couldn't even win
the backup job this year in Denver, So you know,

(41:36):
can he Pickett? No, mac Jones, No. I just think
you look around the NFL, you just don't really see
that at all. That that player question for the back,
who do you feel would make the Chargers offense more effective?
A quality tight end, a running back and a wide

(41:56):
receiver one like Higgins or a revamped interior offensive line.
Both are equally bad, and you can find clips of
Herbert yelling at Bozeman frequently. Well, I think you can
find a guarter center early in the draft, so in
the first or second round. I don't have their salary
cap situation in front of me, but I think it's

(42:17):
pretty clear that they're going to need to add a
weapon now. Wide receivers on the open market, good ones
Higgins is going to cost a lot of money keenan out.
I think I saw a list the other day at
the wide receivers on the open market. It's not a
great group. So you could draft a couple, you know.
To me, I would think long and hard about drafting

(42:40):
a tight end and drafting a running back. I think
in the first three rounds they got to feel pretty
good coming away with a skill wide receiver or tight
end and a running back. Now you can find a
running back on day two, you can find a guarter
center on day two. I think he would be more
inclined to draft a wide receiver in the twenties than

(43:02):
he was gonna do at pick five with Joe Alt
Like who knows who's sitting on the board. I also
think couldn't you go defensive line? I think one question
with the Chargers is Khalil Mack is a free agent
and he's not going to retire. I would imagine they
want him back, but what's the price there? And as
Joey Bosa played his last snap for him, I think
the Chargers has some pretty big questions. Can you give

(43:25):
us a recipe for an Eagles victory over the Chiefs?
Obviously we can all imagine things like winning the turnover
battle or being able to run the ball. Do you
have any next level insights that may be able to
tilt the needle in the eagles favor? Love the show? Well,
I think one thing is pretty clear. When the Eagles

(43:45):
take advantage of you as an opponent, they do it
defensively with their front and down the stretch. I mean
Jalen Carter, non quarterback, you could make the argument he's
been a top ten player in the NFL the last
couple of months of the season. I mean the playoffs.
He has plays and Baldinger has done some like breakdowns
on where he's just unguardable. I mean, you get him

(44:08):
in a one on one situation against a garter or
a center and he has, you know, whether it's that
kind of swim move or kind of that quick get
you on you know, your hip or your shoulder, you
are fucked. I mean he looks like a Hall of
Fame toa it looks like Chris Jones or something in
his prime. So if a guy like that, and they
have other sweet pass rushers, I mean they got multiple

(44:31):
interior guys. They got Jordan Davis Williams, they got edge
rushers and Nolan Smith and Sweat. So the one thing
with the Chiefs, and you notice it in that Texans game,
the front was giving them problems. Well what do the
Texans have? They got will Anderson, who's a badass in
d'aneil Hunter. Well, I'd say the Eagles in terms of
their overall units, they're probably not as good as the

(44:53):
on the edges those two guys, but they're not bad
on the edge and their interior with with Jalen Carter,
I mean, how many Chris Jones is older now, but
he's one of the great defensive tackles of his era
and gonna be in the Hall of Fame. I mean,
that's how good this guy can be like, this guy
could be Chris Jones. Trust me, He asked forty nine
er fans about Chris Jones. He'd won them the Super
Bowl on that third down play in overtime when perty

(45:17):
had Ayuk, but he couldn't get there in his progressions
because Chris Jones already in the backfield. Was because the
right side of the offensive line camp blocked Chris Jones. Well,
the Chiefs, you know, they take Thoony and they move
them out to left tackle, which is the right move,
but it kind of stuck. He has talked about this.
It's changed how talented their interior is, because usually it was.

(45:39):
I mean they had the best guard center guard combination
in the NFL. You know, Tray Smith is. I don't
know the Chiefs financial situation. It's all this stuff so
fluid at the combine. Who you caught, who you trade?
I mean, he's he's a guard. He might get. If
I had to guess right now, what does he ended
up getting paid, I'd guess sixty five seventy million dollars guaranteed,

(46:04):
and like I could see like five years, one hundred
million dollars twenty a year average, but like sixty five
seventy guaranteed. You know, could be even a little higher
quote unquote average, but I think he'll have the highest
guaranteed in the history of guards. Last year they were
making eighteen nineteen million dollars, but they're guaranteed money. Usually
he's like forty five to fifty. He's gonna be get

(46:26):
the most guaranteed money by far. So once you bump
him out, their tackle situation is not as good, or
excuse me, their tackle situation is better because it was
such a problem, but inside is not quite as dominant.
So it's like, I think you've got to dominate on
the defensive line. And a couple of years ago, that
was their strategy. That's how they dominated the NFL. They
led the league in sacks. So you lead the league
in sacks, it's a problem. Now Mahomes is a magician,

(46:50):
But you know, this game comes down to blocking, tackling, throwing,
and catching the football. Like it's pretty basic. And the
quarterback like can you block them? Does he have time?
And when you get a chance to hit him, do
you fucking throttle him? The other thing, I mean, the
Eagles can really hitch you hard. I mean they got
blue chip and these guys are all Georgia and Alabama.

(47:15):
But it's like you're playing the best offensive coach. I mean, honestly,
he's chubby. Bill Walsh, he's clearly I mean, if you
want to do the mount Rushmore of NFL coaches, I
don't even know if he has to win this game
to be on it. He's already got three Super Bowls.
This this is sixth appearance. You know, Bill Walsh. People
forget like he didn't win five Super Bowls Q one

(47:35):
three and then he quit. So now he's more famous,
at least as we sit here today. But who's just
saying fifty years Andy won't be more famous or equally
as I would say him. I think if you were
doing a mount Rushmore, it's not like Andy's anywhere close
to done. I don't know who would argue about Lombardi, Belichick, Walsh.

(47:59):
Then I think the forced spots up for debate, the Landry's, Thenoles,
the Pallaces, the Andies, MIT's. He's in the mix. I mean,
you're talking about that's who you're going up against. If
you're doing a mount Rushmore of NFL head coaches, the
coach you're playing is on that list. And Vic is
an elite defensive coordinator. But you go, well, Patrick and

(48:22):
Andy's kind of owned him, So I think that. And
the other thing is like Hollywood Xavier Worthy. Eagles have
good corners. You know, Mitchell's one of the better rookie
corners in recent memory. Cooper's a really good slot and Slay,
I mean he's older, but he's still a solid starting corner. Technically,

(48:43):
if the Slay's your third best guy, right, if you
just put guys up for factoring in their age, every
NFL team got to pick or order those three of
who they'd like, Slay would be third. But if that's
your third, like you got good dbs. Now, if one
of those guys go down, Rogers has to come in,
then it's a problem their safeties coverage wise. I mean

(49:03):
they'll head obviously. CJ willl CJ. Bringle would lots of
dynasty talk with the upcoming Super Bowl. Where would the
chief stack up if they win? And do you consider
the Brady Patriots era one continued dynasty? I do. So
when you say Belichick Brady, now they're different. There are
three different iterations. There's the Brady Belichick opener. Three super bowls,

(49:28):
Bruce Ki, Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, Troy Brown kind
of that group. Uh, then there's the seventeen you know
through eleven, which is like Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Brady
and his Peak, Logan Mankins, Vince will Fork kind of

(49:49):
that group. And then there's the Brady Belichick, Edelman, Gronk,
Jason mccordy, High Tower kind of that crew. So I
think there are multiple crews, but Belichick and Brady were
on them all. So it's like Travis Kelcey retires and
they win another super Bowl in three years, the dynasty won,

(50:12):
and he just won't be a part of it, Like
Gronk wasn't a part of the first three or the
undefeated season to lose, and I know, like you get
credit when you lose in the Super Bowl, that's an
incredible year, but you gotta win him too, Like it
doesn't sting as much, Like, yeah, Peyton, I lost a
couple of super Bowls, won a couple two. Brady, I
lost some super Bows, won a bunch two. That's the
thing with Kyle Shanahan's like, yeah, I've lost a couple

(50:34):
close ones. It's like Okay, well, what about what about
the ones you've won haven't won any So? Yeah, one
continued dynasty question for the pot. If Mahomes hit free
agency tomorrow, how much money would he be able to net?
I feel like it can get seventy plus million. He's
that good and GMS on the hot seat may pay

(50:55):
him more. Interesting and hearing your thoughts, I mean, I
don't think there's a number that would you get five
hundred million dollars guaranteed. I would put Josh Allen, Joe Burrow,
Lamar Jackson. I mean these guys hit free agency, Deshaun
Watson at two hundred thirty million dollars guaranteed? Would they

(51:17):
get four hundred The thing with all these quarterback contracts
is then if you're good, you see all the money anyway.
So like when you see the hollow numbers, some of
these guys, these teams are gonna want to get out.
Let's say Trevor Lawrence. The team might want to pivot
in a year or two, Like you're never pivoting on
Lamar Jackson or Joe Burrow or Josh Allen or Mahomes.

(51:39):
So like when Mahomes got ten years, four and fifty
million dollars, even if they didn't mess with the contract.
Over the years, he's still getting that. He's seeing all
that money. So I just think that they make an
unlimited amount of money. I mean, it's just I think

(52:00):
it's really that simple, unlimited. I honestly think they get
They would get ten, fifteen to twenty percent more if
they hit the open market, but over the aggregate of
their careers, like my home is going to make seven
hundred million dollars probably more. As someone who is working

(52:20):
toward having a career and professional sports management degree, what
was your favorite part of working in a major sports league?
Also what was your least favorite? I would say favorite
is just you know, you're part of the team. There's
a people that you become very close to. I still
got very very close friends that are on different teams now.

(52:42):
But when you spend especially in the office, it's just
kind of a unique job where you're just spending, especially
in football, a lot of hours together in the building
and it's all kind of for the same common goal.
You're all just trying to help get wins, win get
better players, you know, and you're all kind of part
of this little team. Because in a football team, I

(53:06):
guess basketball and baseball you have less players, but the
football team you don't have that many people. You have
the coaching staff, you got some inhouse scouts, you got
the GM, you get the trainers, equipment, people like you
all know each other pretty closely, you know, like when
I work with the Eagles, I just text Don the
other day about something the Gilly Dance, and he got
Gilly to lead the team out on the NFC championship game.

(53:29):
You just spend like you just get to know all
these people because you just spend so much time around them,
you know. So I think that's that doesn't mean every
single person you liked, But for the most part, I
was pretty lucky. I had a group of people that
I worked with that I all like a lot. The
worst part, you do just work. You can work baseball, basketball, football, hockey, golf, tennis,

(53:56):
you name it, like your a schedule, Like you ain't
a nine to five or it's not Monday through Friday,
weekends off. It's a lot of holidays. You're grinding a
lot of events you have to miss. It's not a
normal schedule at all. It's basically you're doing what other
people do for recreation. To watch at their house. So

(54:18):
when you were you were for a baseball team, like
Saturday night, you got a game you mentioned last week,
you didn't have a theory to account for why defensive
minded head coaches like Aaron Glenn seemed to be more
inclined to hand off play calling duties to a new
defensive coordinator as opposed to offensively offensive oriented coaches like

(54:42):
Andy Reid John McVay seem more willing to maintain those
duties themselves. I'd like to suggest one possible explanation. We
all have a basic orientation to life, and one division
I've observed is that some people are more worried about
bad things happening, while other aggressively seek fun and positive opportunities.

(55:03):
Coaches drawn to defense likely fall into that category, and
those who are more adventurous might incline toward offense. Coaching.
Defense might be a burdened defensive coaches would love to
assign to someone else, whereas offensive coaches might like to
continue enjoying trying to make good things happen. Just a thought.
You're pretty deep on that. I think there's probably some

(55:28):
merit to what you're saying, but I do think it
comes back to like Andy Reid's an offensive play car
he was an offensive lineman. He coached offensive players as
an assistant coach. Right, he was an offensive line coach,
then he coached tight ends, and then he worked with
home We're in like you know, John Gruden was a quarterback.

(55:48):
Kyle shanahan was a wide receiver. Sean McVay was a
wide receiver. They played offense like that was their position
as a player. So when you transition, it's like, well,
what side of the do you want to work on? Well,
I played a wide receiver. So where do you usually start?
Offensive quality controller, offensive graduate assistant? And then when you
elevate from like the lowest guy in the totem pole,

(56:11):
where do they put you? Well, they put you usually
assistant wide receiver coach. Right, that's kind of where you
get your if you're an offensive line guy. Where you
start assistant offensive line coach, then you become an offensive
line coach, then you become the run game coordinator. So
it's like, Demiko, why is he called he's a linebacker? Right? Uh,
solid defensive player, Dan Quinn deep defensive lineman. I think

(56:35):
Pete Carroll's somewhat unique. Pretty sure he played quarterback, but
he might have just started coaching on the defensive side
of the ball and it just kind of took off.
But I think when you look around the NFL, I
think a lot Aaron Glenn was a corner. So what
position does Aaron Glenn start coaching when he gets into
the profession, starts coaching dbs, And the natural progression is

(56:56):
like assistant dB coach, dB coach, UH, defensive coordinator. It's
just it's just a progression. Now, I also think there
is something that you are onto. There's conservative and non
conservative like, and that's what's kind of unique about this
modern day coaching style. Like I think Dan Quinn and

(57:18):
Dan Campbell, if you talk to them twenty years ago,
those guys would be old school, tough guys, run the ball,
play defense, conservative guys. Now when you watch them, it's
go for it, go for it, go for it. So
maybe they are just more open minded guys. Like you said,
they are just more inclined to good things happening where
you look at like Belichick, Saban John Harbaugh. Now Harball's

(57:42):
a go for it guy, But I would put the
Harball brothers they just kind of bad things happening I
guess I hear what you're saying. I think you're kind
of onto something. I think a lot has to do
with it. If you played, at least in college, you
just start coaching where you played. So if you were

(58:03):
an offensive player or defensive player, that's where you go. Like,
why does Kevin O'Connell call offense? He's a quarterback, he
was played at San Diego State, got drafted Cliff Kingsbury quarterback,
So I think it's a natural. You know, Bruce Arians
quarterback called offense, Todd Bowles safety defense. I truly believe
a lot of it's that trying to go think of

(58:25):
different coaches. I don't think Mike McDonald played, uh trying
to go around the NFL Sirianni. I think Sirianni was
a wide receiver. I think Vrabel defensive guy, linebacker. I
truly believe a lot of it's that. Maybe with scouting,

(58:46):
I think some of that would be natural to you.
Are you negative? Are you a positive guy? Are you
glass glass half full? Glass half empty guy? I think
with coaching, though, it truly more where you played. Here's
you for the mail bag. After the Chiefs won the AFC,
I started hearing you and others talk about how Andy
Reid is on Belichick's ass for the greatest coach of

(59:08):
all time, This prompted me to search Andy and Bill's
coaching resume, and I guess I either didn't know or
just had forgotten that Bill has two rings as a
defensive coordinator on top of the six as a head coach.
Seeing this led me to wonder, when evaluating Bills and
others coaching legacies, how does success as a coordinator factor

(59:32):
into the all time rankings legacies? If at all, I
can just speak to my kind of era of guys,
I think most of the best coaches over the Belichick
and the era will start in like the early nineties,
have been super Bowl winning coordinators. Belichick, super Bowl winning coordinator,

(59:54):
Mike Shanahan, super Bowl winning coordinator, Mike Holmgrin, super Bowl
winning coordinator. Who am I miss? Andy wasn't a coordinator,
He was not a coordinator, but he was one of
the main assistants on a Super Bowl winning team in
Green Bay. And you look at then you get to
the different next era. John Harbaugh was a huge part

(01:00:17):
of special teams and defense on those great Eagles teams
with McNabb, Mike Tomlin super Bowl winner as a DV
coach with UH with Tampa. I think, did Mike Tomlin
win win? And I think what you're getting at, too,
is the correlation. Uh yeah, he won a Super Bowl

(01:00:38):
in Tampa. He was a dB coach with John Lynch.
I think the way you get put on a map
as an assistant coach is typically to be part of
a good team, like Kevin O'Connell saying, oh, you just
got to be connected to Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay. Well,
those teams for the last five years sucked. Those wouldn't

(01:01:00):
have jobs, but they won a Super Bowl, Kyle went
to a couple, they were in the playoffs all the time.
So it's like usually you get hired. Now just because
you get hired from one of those staffs doesn't mean
you're good. But like, look at all the coaches that
have got hired over the last like twenty years from Belichick, Well,
why Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia, Brian Flores, you know, Charlie Weiss,

(01:01:21):
Romeo Crenell because they were kicking ass. You know. I
think a huge, huge part of getting elevated and getting jobs.
You know, And when I was like high school ish,
like all the best teams, the guys getting head jobs
were from the best defenses, and that happened for a
long time up until like five ten years ago. Now

(01:01:42):
this year kind of came back, but a lot of
guys from the Great Ravens team. You know. It's like
Marvin Lewis, Rex Ryan, Mike Nolan, the Tampa team, Tomlin,
their defensive line coach, Rod mir and Nelly. You know.

(01:02:02):
It's like, so if when you're part of great teams
you become famous, It's like you could be a no
name actor and put the guy in like Wolf of
Wall Street or you know, The Godfather or whatever. You
just you pick a random movie. If it's an all
time movie, that guy's career is probably gonna change. It's
probably gonna have a massive, massive change. I ended up

(01:02:25):
on this uh YouTube about Josh Brolin. He was being
interviewed by Graham. I always mess up with the guy's
last name, but he just interviews like famous people, athletes, actors,
and Josh was a child actor. I didn't know that
well before my time. And he said, like, for twenty years,
my career sucked nothing happened in my career. And then

(01:02:46):
he got No Country for Old Men, which I actually
watched after watching that, Uh that interview. It was a
it was a clip from the interview. I ended up
watching more clips because I was like, I love this guy,
Josh Brolin loves Sacario. But I haven't seen Dune, but
I bet it's I wasn't gonna watch it. Not my
style of movie, but knowing he started talking about him
like I probably checked this out, but he's like, No

(01:03:08):
Country Old Men changed my life. Like I've always been
kind of picky at movies. He's like I was turning
down movies that I had no business turning down with money.
My options completely changed. It's not like I changed as
an actor. I was always been the same guy. It's
just like there are a lot of really good coaches
that are on shitty teams. You know, Like if that

(01:03:29):
guy got the opportunity to be at Ohio State, to
be at Texas to work for Andy Reid, like he'd
become a star. But maybe he's just on the panthers.
We're at Texas Tech. It's not his fault. He just
doesn't know those guys. He just got hired. He He's
just kind of there and in life no different coaching.
Sometimes you needed a big break, like Andy Reid getting

(01:03:52):
on Home Gren Staff and John Gruden getting on Home
Grind Staff and Mariucci getting on Home Grend Staff changed
their lives. I'm sure all three of them will be
the first people to tell you that Brett Farv changed
their life, changed their life. Tom Brady changed a ton
of people's lives. Peyton Manning changed a ton of Aaron
Rodgers a ton of people's lives even if they failed,

(01:04:15):
like Mackadoo made a lot of money because Aaron Rodgers,
Joe Philben a lot of money because Aaron Rodgers, like
these guys Nate Hackett. So it's great coaches are usually
associated assistant coaches with a great player, a great head coach,

(01:04:36):
and they usually go hand in hand. Bill Wats, Joe Montana, Belichick, Brady,
Andy Reid, Mahomes, Phil Jackson, Michael Jordan. You put Phil
Jackson with like fucking James Harden and Phil Jackson. Name
for your fans. People want me to have a name
for my fans. So I like where the one guy

(01:04:59):
was going with the fourth Downers, But it's kind of
an awkward name. How about the punning unit? What happens
when you go three and out send in the punning unit?
I think the key to a name and this is
growing on me. It has to almost be It can't
be three words. It can't be like the X Y

(01:05:23):
right or I think it basically has to be like
a couple syllables. Ideally one word. I was thinking like
the practice squad, but the middle cough squad, cough squad.
I'm not great at this stuff, but I think we're
kind of getting down the right path the punning unit.
I appreciate the idea. It's actually a good idea, and

(01:05:48):
the logic behind the idea I like it. I just think,
here comes the punning unit. It doesn't quite work. It
doesn't quite work. When I was a kid, Jim Rome,
I think had the was the Cronies. Maybe yeah, what
is Jim Rome's fans called the Clones the Clones. I
was close the Clones. That was good, the Clones, Like

(01:06:10):
that's Portnoy has the Stooley's the Clones. I think the
key for this to work it's got to basically be
one word. I don't know what that word is, but
I don't think it can be like a statement like, uh,
here comes the third down defense, right, here comes the
punting units. I thought for probably a couple of minutes

(01:06:32):
the other day and I was like, I'm not even
close to getting a good idea, But like clones, that
was pretty legendary when I was a kid, I was
I thought I was a clone. I've never even called in,
but I felt it right. So I the one word.
One word's key. It doesn't even have to be football related.
It can be. It can be in something that sticks,
some that's good, something that's catchy. But uh, I think

(01:06:55):
one word is pretty key. The volume