3 & Out - Steelers vs. Browns Preview, Chargers Move to LA, Cowboys Clock Management & NFL Mailbag

John Middlekauff is back with another episode of 3 & Out, previewing Steelers vs. Browns and breaking down the biggest storylines heading into the AFC North matchup. John discusses the matchup, key players, coaching decisions, and what to watch for when the Steelers and Browns take the field.

John also takes a look at the Los Angeles Chargers' move from San Diego to Los Angeles and explains why he believes the Chargers should have stayed in San Diego. Plus, John breaks down the Dallas Cowboys' clock management issues, late-game decision-making, and the importance of situational football in the NFL.

The show wraps up with the Middlekauff Mailbag, where John answers listener questions about the NFL, quarterbacks, coaches, teams, and the biggest storylines around football.

Subscribe to 3 & Out with John Middlekauff for NFL previews, game reactions, quarterback analysis, coaching breakdowns, NFL news, and college football takes.

Follow John on Twitter, and Instagram for the latest. 

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#Volume

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Volume. What is going on, my people? John Middlecoff,
3NOW Podcast. How are we doing? Thursday night football is here.

(00:22):
The Browns, Steelers. We'll dive into that game. Something clicked
when I was watching playoff baseball. and how it relates
to an NFL team. The Dallas Cowboys, Jerry Schottenheimer, not pleased.
Jerry not pleased at Brian, and then Brian take accountability,
not happy with himself. A couple quick college thoughts, and
we'll do some mailbag questions. At John Middlecoff, at John

(00:44):
Middlecoff is the Instagram. Fire in those DMs and get
your questions answered here on the show. Yeah, you guys,
do you listen on Collins Feed? Make sure you subscribe
to 3 and Out. Check us out on Netflix. You
can hit the alert button. Never miss a show. I
did my top five. I've been doing it every week.

(01:06):
We've been putting it on YouTube, so you can go
check that out. My top five NFL teams headed into
week five. Or excuse me, week four. Not quite to
week five yet. Slow down. Enjoy the season. Let's just
talk some football. I do want to start with the
game tonight. And... When I went on with Colin on

(01:28):
Sunday afternoon night before the Sunday night game, I was
probably too critical of Aaron Rodgers. You know, I went
back and watched. He made some awesome throws. And relative
to what they had been the first two weeks, which
was borderline unwatchable. I mean, that game against the Falcons
was like watching paint dry. And then the following week

(01:48):
against the Patriots, one of the worst football games offensively
you will ever see. He threw some dots in that game.
There were some blown coverages. I kind of nitpicked him
on a couple plays that in his heyday he would
have made with his eyes closed on a go route,
on a scramble drill, where he just missed them. But
if they get that version of Rodgers playing like that

(02:12):
and you include the run game, because part of the
problem for the Steelers the first couple weeks, and really
it goes back to last year, it really has been
a while now. You go back to Le'Veon Bell, some
of the good Tomlin teams with Roethlisberger, like a huge
part of their identity was a physical running attack. Hell,
most of my life, you go back to Jerome Bettis,
you know, it was up to when the franchise was

(02:35):
built with Frank O'Harris, though I don't really remember watching
him play because I wasn't alive. But by all, everyone
that was, they were a really good player. And the
reality is in the NFL, you have to have some
semblance of a running game. I don't care if you
have five all pros playing offensive line in terms of
pass protection. If you cannot run the ball unless you

(02:58):
have like peak Patrick Mahomes, it's going to be a struggle.
And what happened last week is they got some big
explosive plays for Jalen Warren. And one of them, I
guess it wouldn't have been a touchdown because he was
hocked at the five yard line, but it was like
a 75, 80 yard run. And it was awesome. And
if they get some explosive runs, some consistent runs, They
will be okay. Aaron Rodgers has this guy on Instagram

(03:22):
who basically pretends to be Aaron Rodgers. Like he makes
these videos of his mannerisms. He's fantastic. It's like Rodgers realm.
He's really enjoyable follow for me on Instagram for years.
Going back to when Aaron got traded to the Jets.
And he was not happy with my thoughts on A-Rod.
And it's like, listen, I got no problem. I was

(03:43):
probably a little too critical. But I do think when
it comes to the Pittsburgh Steelers, as the season goes,
a 42-year-old guy who no longer scrambles that well, they're
going to have to play defense. They're going to have
to run the ball. This is the best version of
Rodgers early on in the season when the weather is good. Now,

(04:03):
if you want to go, well, the Bengals defense, who
I was touting, I was like, hey, this unit's big time.
They had a bunch of big plays on them. Do
I think Cincinnati wins the game? I saw Roethlisberger crush
the Bengals. He's like, that was the Bungles. You had
the roughing the punter where they just wiped out the
dude's plant leg and the dude that muffed it, and

(04:24):
the Bengals got it back in excellent field position. I
think if they play that game over again and consistently,
I think the Bengals are a better team. But early
in the season, at home, Rodgers responded. Here's the problem.
They're playing the Cleveland Browns on Thursday night. And in theory,
you just say that out loud. You're like, that's who
you would sign up for. The Cleveland Browns on Thursday

(04:46):
night turned into like the Brady and Belichick Patriots. They
played the Steelers specifically four times in the history of
Thursday night games at home. They beat them every time.
So when they play in Cleveland against the Steelers on
a Thursday night, they're 4-0. Since 2018, which is a
bunch of different players, a bunch of different coaches, multiple regimes,

(05:09):
they have not lost. They are 7-0. The Cleveland Browns,
for whatever reason, regardless who the quarterback is, regardless who
the coach is, are just a bright lights Thursday night team.
So if you know you want to get aggressive with
some shackles, I'm just telling you, history would tell us
get ready for this Browns team, regardless who they're playing,

(05:29):
but especially they're playing the Steelers on Thursday night. They
start hitting that side, you know, the stadium, the place rocks.
But here's the other thing. Like, they're 2-1. And for
as much grief as Watson has got as a player,
I'm not talking about off the field. I'm just talking
about as a player and in his, whatever, 11 or
12 games before the start of the season that he's

(05:51):
played for the Browns, it was borderline unwatchable. I mean, statistically,
he was an outlier. He was one of the worst
starting quarterbacks in the internet era. He's made some really
good plays the last couple weeks. He really has some
touch throws. Obviously, two weeks ago against Tampa, I mean,
was like the difference in the game. Outplayed Baker Mayfield,
who just got an extension. Now, we could also argue

(06:12):
that Baker Mayfield does not look good this season, but regardless.
And then last week to get another win, like they
do have a little momentum. And the one thing that
no one can argue is like they do have some
impactful players. They got some young, explosive wide receivers. Junkins
was the SEC rookie freshman of the year, and then
he transferred to Ohio State. I don't know if you

(06:34):
go blue chipper in the NFL. I'd reserve that for
Bijan and Jameer Gibbs, but he's really good. And Mason
Graham right now looks like Travis Hunter. I give the
Jags credit. You can't play both ways in the NFL.
It's just too difficult. Deion Sanders couldn't do it. Charles
Woodson couldn't do it. And I love Travis Hunter in college.

(06:56):
He wasn't those guys. So when they were kind of
going back and forth and then he was in no
man's land, well, what happened last week? No more offense, really.
We're going to play defense. And obviously got the pick
off Drake May in the end zone. And it was,
I would say, a big moment for his career. I
don't know if you've seen it, but the video went
viral of the Patriot ball boy grabbing the ball because

(07:18):
it's clearly the Patriots ball because he picks it off.
Travis did a celebration, and Josh Hines-Allen realizes he's going
to want that bad boy for his mantle, goes to
get the ball. The Patriots employee, classic do-your-job, throwback to Belichick,
refuses to give it up. I mean, he gave more
resistance in that moment than every single Patriot the entire game.

(07:41):
And I don't know if they ended up getting the ball.
I haven't read anything since. But just the 30, 40
second video is right up my alley for content. I
watched it 15 times. Made me smile. So I think Pittsburgh,
it's like, what are we getting? Are we getting the
team to kind of have their back against the wall
against the Bengals and everyone was shitting on their offense?

(08:03):
and started getting people involved. I saw DK leads the
league in drops, multiple penalties last game. Now, one of
them you could argue, especially it was on the big
run to Warren, I think was more than questionable. And, like,
he's a big play guy. You can only have so
many of Washington going for 45 yards, breaking tackles, running

(08:26):
around blocks. And I'm a huge fan. I mean, anytime
you can have... Rodgers was interviewed after the game. And
they're like, yeah, he's dropped his weight. And he laughed. Well,
he's like, well, it's all relative. If you guys knew
what he weighed last year... I mean, there are some people...
I think kind of alluding that his weight was in
the low threes. And I think it's still probably hovering,

(08:46):
just looking at him. He's an enormous human being. Let's
say 290, 300. I mean, it shows what an exceptional
athlete the dude is. Fryer moves like they do. Pittman,
they got some dudes. Roman Wilson, you got to catch
the ball over the middle. But this is a big
moment for McCarthy. You got a lot of people watching.
Like I said, the stats just, they speak for themselves

(09:08):
with the Browns at home. I feel like I close
my eyes and picture them winning these games. And yeah,
I'm excited to watch. And I would say the worst
part of Thursday Night Football, and it pains me to
say this, and I'm not going to keep beating a
dead horse, is Al. I mean, he just, he can't see.
He doesn't know what's going on. I mean, my mom's

(09:30):
in her late 70s right now. You just... I can't
even imagine of the people that have been in my
life in their early to mid-80s attempting to do the
job of calling an NFL football game. The challenge that
would be for any professional, let alone a living legend,
it's over. And it sounds like these guys are in

(09:53):
their last year of their contracts. I guess Al does like,
a rollover one-year deal, Herbstreet. I would venture out on
a limb to say that we have a new broadcast
team next year for Amazon. And I do think it's
well needed at this point. It's hard. Like, I grew
up watching Marv Albert. And those last couple years on TNT,

(10:14):
he had no fucking clue what was going on. And basketball,
the pace, especially in this modern day game where they're
flying up, shooting threes, it was just overwhelming for them.
And that's what it feels like watching now. A couple
other things I was watching. The Padres have made the
playoffs a lot recently. And their home games are just

(10:36):
absolutely lit, as the kids would say. Just cinema. Place
is rocking. And it got me thinking that The Los
Angeles Chargers, we had the relocation, right? Raiders go to Vegas, St.
Louis comes back to LA, and the Chargers join them,
though they don't own the stadium, they pay a dollar rent.

(10:57):
So they are a tenant. And let me say this,
because I've been critical over the years of the Spanos family,
their management style. I'll be the, born and raised in California.
My family still lives there. I come from generations of
people that have done business there. My family's still there. Cousins,
people doing business. All my friends, a large majority of

(11:20):
them at least. It is very, very difficult to get
things done in California. And when you're gonna have to,
when you don't have the money, which the Spanos family
didn't to build a stadium by themselves in San Diego.
Just like the 49ers did not have the money to
build one in the Bay Area. They needed to partner
up with Santa Clara. And it's been a major pain

(11:43):
in their ass. But they didn't have the cash to
finance the thing on their own. So they needed help.
Where in turn, Stan Kroenke, it's probably the hardest in
Los Angeles, paid for it for himself. So even if
there were massive amounts of obstacles, the price kept skyrocketing,
he could afford the billions upon billions of dollars in

(12:05):
which it cost. Some people seem to say that it
was like five to six billion dollars when it was
all said and done. Joe Lacob, who moved the Golden
State Warriors, and this was his idea when he bought
the team, he was gonna move it to the city
of San Francisco. financed it on his own. So if
you're able to do that, it becomes very lucrative for you.

(12:26):
But it's also extremely cost intense. Like you're going to
need a lot of capital to get that done. Especially,
I mean, moving forward, like it's never getting any cheaper.
So I understand the Spanos family not having the liquid cash, seven, eight,
whatever year that they ended up moving 2018, 19 range. Remember,

(12:47):
they went a little early because they just left San
Diego and they played at that tiny little soccer stadium
that held like 25,000, 30,000 people. But they have no
footprint in the area. You know, the Rams struggle with that.
And the Rams are from Los Angeles and had a
built-in generation while older that grew up watching them play.

(13:09):
And here's the other thing. The Rams are good. Like
the Rams home stadium, they hosted a Super Bowl there
and they won it. They have a superstar coach that
kind of feels like Los Angeles. Sean McVay kind of
looks like a dude that would have been in Fast
and the Furious. That would be in some Navy Seal movie.
Kind of looks like a Hollywood star. The Chargers, meanwhile,

(13:31):
and I'm not acting like San Diego was Buffalo or
Green Bay in terms of a home field advantage. But
where I went to college was the middle of California,
San Luis Obispo. Basically, half the school was from Northern California.
I guess Northern California and the Valley. And the other
half was from Southern California. I was in a fraternity

(13:54):
with a lot of dudes from San Diego. I just
got to know a lot of dudes from San Diego.
Pretty loyal fans. Pretty big fan base down there. And
they've moved, and I'm not blaming their struggles this year.
It's because Harbaugh, McDaniels, Herbert, the defense, like the Spanos
family are not the reason this team is 0-3. But

(14:15):
big picture for their franchise, like... Anytime that you enter
a new stadium, there's going to be criticism. People are
going to complain. You do the PSLs where you basically
buy the right to buy the seat. I mean, it's egregious.
And then once you do, the prices are huge. Obviously,
the beers and the hot dogs, everything in these new

(14:36):
stadiums is outrageous, right? But when I turn on Buffalo
in their new stadium, it's like, yeah, it feels sweet.
Same people, same general people that were attending the games
are probably attending these games. And listen, I lived it
with the Golden State Warriors when they played in the
shitty arena called Oracle. By the time they got really
good and Curry started winning because they priced out all

(14:58):
their fans moving to San Francisco. I got news for you.
That happened before they moved. Elon, Zuckerberg, that crowd of
type people were already buying the tickets when it was
really cool when they were still in the shitty arena.
So as you get good, no matter what, it's going
to price out some people because you're going to raise
ticket prices. But there is no debating that they play

(15:20):
in an area where no one cares. Not a soul.
All of their home games. And listen, the Raiders, who
have Vegas to themselves, battle this. They play in a
lot of games where the opposing team is going to
have a large percentage of the seats filled. It's just

(15:40):
a fact. It's going to be fascinating this week with
their biggest game in years against Kansas City Chiefs. How
many people in red are in that stadium? I'd venture
to guess, and this is no fault of their own,
they're dire Raider fans. They've moved like four times in
the last 40 years. When you're a nomadic operation, it's
going to be hard to build a home base. The

(16:03):
Chicago Bears don't need to worry about that. They've been
in Chicago my entire life. The Philadelphia Eagles, like, well,
remember 20 years ago when you used to be in
South Florida? No, been in Philadelphia the whole time. But
when you play in a stadium where every single game
feels like an away game, so basically your entire season
is on the road. Sometimes you'd have to get on

(16:24):
a plane. Other times you drive there. But you never
go into a place, and Rivers used to talk about this,
they'd have to go silent count in home games. And
I understand like even the Rams have to battle it.
When is the 49ers? Well, yeah, the 49ers have been
good for like 40 years. They have an enormous fan base.

(16:45):
especially on the West Coast. But if the Rams are
playing some random team, probably not. at least they would
have a chance of not having to go silent count.
So the other thing is, and this is just a fact,
no emotion here, is when you look at the cash
spending in 2026, I'm not talking about your dead cap space.

(17:08):
I'm not talking about your salary cap. I'm talking about
how much cash is going out to players this season.
where over the last several years, Jeffrey Lurie, the Baltimore Ravens,
the Buffalo Bills, the San Francisco 49ers, they're spending a
lot of money on players. For example, the Green Bay Packers.
Part of the reason this year sucks for them, they're
spending a lot of money cash-wise on this team. Well,

(17:31):
the Chargers, who have, in theory, a quarterback in his prime,
and a coach and a coaching staff that they are
paying more money to than they have ever dreamed of
to pay to that operation... is second to last in
the NFL. The only team that is currently spending more
cash on players is the team that literally got rid
of them all, the Miami Dolphins, who is actively trying

(17:54):
to tank. Think about that. So ownership doesn't impact on
a play-to-play basis. So if Justin Herbert throws a pick,
if O'Marion Hampton fumbles, if they can't stop anybody, if
their guard can't block, I'm not putting that on the
Spanos family. But the operation, all you tell me is like, well,
they built this beautiful practice facility. You know who doesn't

(18:17):
give a shit about that? Anyone watching the game. It's
completely irrelevant. Good for you. And listen, they have gotten
exponentially more wealthy because their franchise value increased. They can
then sell pieces off, get cash infusions. They can borrow
against it, fly private jets, live in large, right? But

(18:40):
at what cost? Because they had something in San Diego.
Was it the Packers? Was it the Bills? Is it
what you see with the 12s in Seattle? I'm not
going to go that far. I'm not acting like they
ditched that. But watching the Padre game year after year
in October, and that place is just on full tilt
and going nuts. You can't convince me these people wouldn't

(19:04):
have cared. Wouldn't have filled the stadium. with, I don't know, 30,
you could have made it smaller, 45, 50, 60,000 people. Now,
if you want to tell me, well, there's not as
much corporate infrastructure down here for the money to flow
like there would be in San Francisco or Los Angeles.
There's truth to that. But you don't own the stadium.

(19:25):
You don't control any of this. You are a tenant
and you're lucky he charges you $ 1 a year. So
I just look at the chargers and go, For as
much as they kind of tried, spent a lot of
money on Harbaugh, got this quarterback, gave him a quarterback contract,
are they really trying? Are they really a well-run operation?

(19:46):
And do they really have a future operating the way
they are? I think it's fair to question that. I
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regulated exchange and clearing organization. The Dallas Cowboys, who your

(21:41):
boy picked to win the division, who had high hopes.
Be lying if I said I don't necessarily want to redo,
but I do not feel as confident. And I saw
Jerry Jones, who does seven interviews a week, only owner.
It's like, let's get Jerry's take on Brian. Sunday afternoon,
Monday or Tuesday morning on the radio. Obviously was really

(22:01):
mad and said it's inexcusable. I don't know. There's no excuse.
he couldn't explain it to me, right? And Brian Schottenheimer
comes out on Wednesday and says, it's my fault. The
responsibility lies on me. I screwed that up. I'll give
him a pass on the quote unquote clock management, doing

(22:22):
it perfectly. Because honestly, that's not when I watched the game.
That's not what I was thinking about, right? Even kicking
the ball into the end zone and letting them start
at the 35. My main issue is when you are
a guy who's been coaching in the NFL, coaching in
the NFL for almost 25 years. You've been, you were

(22:46):
bred around this sport. And clearly you're an offensive guy
through your lens. And one thing that the Cowboys were
going to have to hang their hat on if they
were going to be good, because even if their defense
was just going to have to be middle of the pack,
was being a lead offense. Obviously, they have elite offensive pieces,
two sweet wide receivers, a good tight end, a good

(23:07):
running back, and a quarterback that when he gets hot
can play as well as anybody. And he's humming right
down the field. And Dak Prescott's like, oh, earning that
$ 60 million. Once you get deep into the red zone
in a situation like that with not much clock, it's
all about scoring a touchdown. And when I think about

(23:27):
Andy Reid, Kyler McVay, Ben Johnson– you would think that
there's no guarantee you ever score a touchdown. It's football,
it's difficult. A guy might drop it, a guy might trip,
an offensive lineman could screw up, whatever. I mean, we're
dealing with human beings. But you'd go, God, that was
an excellent play call, it just didn't work. And if

(23:50):
you end up having to kick a field goal with that,
it's like, well, they got two great looks, Pickens dropped it,
and Dak tripped or something. But the play was there. Like,
that's a well-schemed play. My main reservation moving forward is
not that their defensive coordinator, turns out, might not be
very good, slash their personnel and defense is just so
terrible that even if Belichick in his prime was coaching,

(24:13):
they'd still have limitations. My issue with is their point
of difference is their offense. And the guy conducting the
offense got to a situation, regardless of his clock management,
and not one of the three plays to score a touchdown,
you went, what a call. What a call. You would
think getting to that situation, however long the flight is

(24:36):
from Dallas, you're in the middle of fucking nowhere in
Rio de Janeiro playing a football game for who knows why.
But you are. And you have a chance to beat
the Ravens, who most people view as like a Super
Bowl contender. We'll see how that ends up playing out.
But they're definitely, if Lamar's playing, a high-level operation. And
those are your three plays? It's the thing I was

(24:57):
most baffled about right when me and Colin immediately just
recorded after. And I couldn't get over the play calls. And,
you know, coaches often talk about this. There are certain
situations of the game, like when it's third and six,
and it's like, hey, hey, and you tell, I saw
Sean Payton saying this. He's like, I'm not getting involved

(25:19):
on a play-to-play basis with Davis Webb. But I will
chime in and tell him, this is four down territory.
So the play he might call on third and six
might change what he would normally run if he knew
we were going to punt, right? Because he's got two
downs to get the six yards. And it's oftentimes when
you hear a team in like, hey, it's a tie game,

(25:40):
fourth quarter. We had this two-point play we've been holding on.
We're at the three-yard line. Run it right now. We
love this play all week. there's not a two-point play,
but it's going to score us a touchdown, and boom,
we win the game. How did he not have one
play in his back pocket when his quarterback looked fantastic?

(26:00):
His wide receivers are both tall and contested catch high
point guys, and he's got a good tight end. And
those were the three plays. So I'm not changing my
tune on Dallas not winning the division because the Eagles
are in shambles. The Giants quarterback situation is J.J. McCarthy
and Jameis Winston. And we'll see on the Commanders. I mean,

(26:25):
Mariota might have the game of his life. But man,
the issue I have is with the offensive ingenuity, the
offensive creativity. How do you not have something in your
back pocket to go, what a play call? It happens
all the time with the other elite guys. And listen,
your counter might be, well, Middlecoff, he's not one of

(26:45):
those guys. That might be true. And if it is,
the Cowboys truly have no shot. And I'm not saying
he needs to be Ben Johnson. I'm just saying he
needs to be viewed as a high-end offensive coordinator that
in a spot like that gets multiple good looks on
play calls. And they did not. The other thing I

(27:06):
wanted to hit on is this. The College Sports Act
is moving its way through the government. My overall take
is I don't care how much coaches make. I don't
care how much players make. there should be some sort
of guardrails of like, hey, if I give you a contract,
you can't just pick up and leave six months later

(27:27):
for either of the guys, right? Because with coaches, other
schools have to pay buyouts. It's been an issue with
players where they're just like, I don't give a shit,
I'm out. I just wish there were some sort of corralling, hey,
you sign a contract, when I sign a contract, when
you sign a contract, professionally, there are usually some limitations.
And right now in college, coaches and players, there are none.

(27:48):
Lane's a good example of it, though LSU had to
pay Ole Miss, and obviously the players jumping around. But
I don't give a shit who makes what. I think
Saban's argument, I saw a clip where he was like, well,
we can cap the players, but we can't cap the
coaches because the coaches bring more value. It's like, well, yeah, Nick,
you do. You know, maybe Lane or Dan Lanning or

(28:09):
certain guys do, but there are a lot of guys stealing.
Shane Beamer, he bringing value? You know, I mean, what
are we talking about here? So I got no problem
on the count. I just think there need to be
guardrails about moving around. It's the thing with the NFL, right?
The equivalent of the Jags, right, would be viewed as
a lower level power four team. All we would be

(28:30):
talking about right now is like the Green Bay Packers
who would be viewed as like LSU or Ohio State.
How do they just steal Liam Cohen? And when the
season ended, they probably would. where Liam Cohen is going
to stay with the Jags for as long as he
wants if he keeps having success. And you can't just steal, hell,
you can't even steal position coaches if I give you

(28:53):
the right title and I can block you. So in college,
it's just a free-for-all, coaches and players. And it's kind
of a joke. And the main issue I have with
the building of the sport is early on in the season,
there are like three or four games, maybe a week,
that feel like they matter. Yet in the NFL, even
if it's a quote-unquote bad slate, it's not that bad.

(29:16):
And two, early on, what happened week one? Boom. The
Super Bowl, rematch. What happens the next game? Two of
the Super Bowl favorites playing in Australia. Right? What happens
Monday Night Football? Andy Reid versus Sean Payton. That's how
the NFL came out of the gates. They didn't be like, well,
let's save Denver and Kansas City for November and December.

(29:38):
Conference games, division games. No. And I think in college football,
I saw a headline today. I read a little article
on Front Office Sports. The television ratings so far through
the first month are down 10% in college. Now, the
Ohio State-Texas game was one of the highest rated and
most watched games in recent memory Well, of course it

(30:01):
was because it felt like an NFL game. The second
biggest game, LSU Ole Miss. Well, no shit. That game mattered.
You know, Indiana, who is the defending champ, who is now,
you know, a star program, is playing nobody. Like, you
don't even need to watch the game. Miami is beating

(30:22):
people 77 to nothing. So the number one thing College
Sports Act or these people that want to get involved,
you know what your biggest problem is? And this is
where I think the television networks need to get involved.
We got to get some clarity and some consistency with
who we're playing. And maybe extending the playoffs will allow

(30:43):
these teams to not hide. There's always an argument like,
should a good loss be a positive or is a
loss a loss? Like in the NFL, this is the
power of the NFL. There's no such thing as a
good loss. A loss is a loss. Like at the
end of the year, if that loss, like let's say
Minnesota is able to keep winning and wins 11 games.

(31:04):
And the Chicago Bears win 10 games. Well, it's like, hey, man,
Caleb got hurt and it was rainy. That loss will
be a major talking point because they're the wild card
and Minnesota's hosting the game. There's never like, hey, man,
hold your head high. It's not the way it works.
Yet in college, it's like, well, Louisville, great loss to
Ole Miss. LSU, not the worst loss to Ole Miss.

(31:28):
And we do all this subjectivity in college football. How
about we all just do something where everyone plays everybody,
like the NFL, and it rotates. Strength of schedule, lottery system,
I don't give a shit. But the big issue right
now is coaches get caught up in the development and
the transfer portal. Is it perfect? Of course not. But

(31:49):
the big issue right now is Indiana's playing the Sisters
of the Poor week two. They just went 16-0. They
had the number one overall pick. If I told you
Indiana was playing Florida State or, you know, Oklahoma or
just someone real, guess what? A lot of people would watch.
You could throw that thing on primetime like they would
in the NFL. The Chiefs got good. And what happened?

(32:12):
They played a strength of schedule that was always because
they won the AFC West forever. They played the Bills
all the time. They played consistently even the Steelers or
the Ravens every year. Who started playing each other all
the time? Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. Every year, you
knew you were getting that game. Most of my adult life,

(32:32):
once a year, even though they were not in the
same divisions, and even though it rotates, every three years,
the divisions rotate of who you play in your own conference.
I knew I was getting Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.
And I got them for 15, 16 straight years. And
usually twice because they tended to play each other again
in the playoffs. So I just think college's biggest issue

(32:55):
gets so caught up in the money and who's paying who. Well,
I understand that because a lot of these athletic programs
have 7 million people with fake titles who are making
six figures who are completely useless. If you got a
fortune CEO company or CEO or board that knew what
they were doing come through, they'd be like, you're gone,
you're gone. What do you do? Nothing, see ya. The

(33:18):
big issue is like, wait, who are we playing? East, West,
Missouri State? That's pointless. And we're paying them a million
dollars to play? What are we doing? Can't we just
figure out some sort of, I would just say, There's
just no unity. And that, at the end of the day,
has always hurt college football. It's why we've gotten to

(33:41):
this position. The Big Ten, we've got to have USC.
We've got to have that market. Their team's not that
great to watch. They haven't been that good. Think about this.
Oregon and Washington, to join the Big Ten, had to
take half a share. So USC and UCLA will make
double what Oregon and Washington will make. I forget the

(34:01):
exact amount of years, but for several years, as they've
transitioned into the conference. Because remember, Oregon and Washington came
after the fact. Yet who's way more important to the
Big Ten landscape over the last several years and moving forward?
The Oregon Duck program. Even Dan Lanning said today, he's like,
you know who UCLA reminds me of? That's their next game?

(34:23):
Indiana from the last couple years. Dan Lanning has more
respect for the UCLA program than USC. Because I was
thinking this in the shower. If I was Fox, and
I was the powers that be that has the Big Ten,
not having USC relevant, and I got news for you,
after that game, they kind of peaked, and now they

(34:44):
feel like it doesn't matter. We know who they are.
Same thing as they've been. Can I stroke a check
to help get Lincoln out there and get your version
of Lane Kiffin, Urban Meyer, whoever it may be? Because
we can't do business with this. we can't because this
isn't good enough. And you notice it so far this year,

(35:05):
the Big Ten doesn't quite feel the same. If they
have to rely on Iowa against some of these SEC powers,
it's going to be a problem. And I respect Iowa.
They've obviously recruited kind of a lesser player and turned
them into pros for decades. They're a high-level football program
from just a, if you're just looking at it strictly

(35:28):
from an NFL view. in a coaching view. But in
terms of viewership, watching them play, it's like, wake me
when the game's over. Let's do some mailbag questions. At

(35:52):
John Middlecoff, at John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in
those DMs. Get your questions answered here. on this podcast.
I was watching the Steven Smith Senior Show with James Palmer,
and he made a very underrated statement how the Jags
owner has not butted in to make Liam and force

(36:14):
feed Brian Thomas and Travis Hunter because they were high
draft picks. He basically said some owners would try to
butt in and try to make them justify the pick.
He gave other examples. As the Eagles owner, just let's
Howie do his job. All to say I found that
very interesting and underrated. Forgot to mention it also lets

(36:36):
Travis Hunter focus and master the defensive side of the
ball before doing anything else. I think if you owned
an NFL team, you are paying a coach, a GM,
and the cons, for example, they're paying Liam Cohen, who
definitely was not a cheap hire because he had options.
Their general manager, probably on the lower end, but he's still...

(36:57):
making seven figures. And Tony Buscelli, who has this kind
of unique role, is also probably making seven figures. So
you're paying these guys a lot of money. You're a
super rich guy. Life's good. You own an NFL team
probably every year, goes up percentage. Money is no issue.
All you want to do is see your team win.
So if you're paying these guys this big of premiums,

(37:19):
you got to let them do their job. And I
think oftentimes some of the stories that used to come
out about Dan Snyder, about some of these other owners
in other sports... It's like, what's the point of hiring
this guy if you were just going to tell him
what to do? Now, if his decisions don't work, then
you can come in and hold them accountable, fire them, whatever,
if they don't win. That's kind of the job. But

(37:41):
I never understood being like... Now, I think it would
be fair to go, why are we doing this? But,
you know, when people push back against Carly Ursae and
the player's defender... I'm sorry, when you're doing something that
no one else is doing, and it clearly isn't working
because your franchise never makes the playoffs, is this all

(38:02):
for show? Are you using this note to then call
them out and ask why they're doing it because nothing changes?
I never really get it. I never understand Jerry Jones,
who becomes so critical, who's clearly hovering over all these guys.
What's the point of hiring anybody if you were just
going to ultimately tell them what to do? You know,
Howie's taking a lot of shit right now online because

(38:26):
the 2025 draft has been really bad. I've always defended
good teams. When you win the Super Bowl, go to
the Super Bowl. Hell, go to an AFC championship game.
It is not easy to draft. Because not only are
you picking 29, 30, 31, 32... Well, then you're picking
at the end of the second and third round. So

(38:47):
you're getting the worst bunch of the litter every single round.
It's like, well, yeah. Well, how about when they drafted
Jalen Carter and Cooper DeGene? Well, yeah, no shit. They
were drafting way higher. It's like, it's why teams justify
like the LA Rams or Sean Payton to just, yeah,
we'll just trade this pick for a player because not

(39:09):
going to take a crap shoot. It's not a 50-50
chance when you're drafting the end of the first. It's difficult.
It's much easier to draft at pick 10 than it
is at pick 31. And I'm not trying to justify
saying those guys are going to turn out to be
good players. Maybe they all suck. But for most people,
if I just gave you pick 31, pick 64, and pick... 92,

(39:31):
or whatever the numbers actually are in the second and
third round, your hit rate wouldn't be as high if
I gave you pick 9, 40, and 70. It's much
easier to draft. It's way easier to pick Jeremiah Love
than it is Jadarian Price. What's a runway for tight

(39:52):
end development? I've heard you talk about how, in general,
players get less time to develop now than they ever have.
But I wonder how it varies per position. Let's take
Sam Roush on the Bears, for example. So far, he's
looked more like a liability than a value add. But
it's only been three games. Let me just... What pick

(40:13):
was Sam Roush? I thought third round, but it might
be second round. I just don't want to screw it up.
Third round. Well, one, the difference, part of the reason
for a quarterback, the leash is much shorter than it
has been historically, is because you can't function without a quarterback. Right?

(40:36):
And if that guy is bad, he ruins everything you're
trying to do. I saw this, Charles Robinson had this
tweet yesterday that I thought was pretty good because he
used it to relate it to... to J.J. McCarthy. And
this was a quote from Bill Walsh in The Winning Edge.

(40:57):
It's like a famous football book with some of his philosophies.
As a head coach, you should be aware of the fact,
on occasion, you will select a talented player in the
draft who isn't able to do his job at an
acceptable level in the game for whatever reason. The point

(41:18):
to keep in mind is that no matter how long
and how hard you practice, no matter how thorough and
detailed your teaching is, if a player is dysfunctional during
the game, it's a waste of everyone's time. A player
who simply cannot compete or perform with poise, regardless of

(41:39):
his physical skills and potential, will not only disappoint you,
but he can literally destroy everything everyone else is accomplishing.
This situation is especially true at the quarterback position. So
the quarterback development is under way more of a magnifying

(41:59):
glass because of the control they have of your offense.
Other guys, you can bench, rotate, you can control. I
have to go back and watch Sam Roush's snaps. He's
a third-round tight end. who pretty sure, didn't they draft
him to kind of be a blocking tight end? He's 6'4,

(42:23):
270 pounds. He also plays on a unit with a
top 10 pick in Loveland and a guy that got
a contract extension commit. So his unit, you're not as
dependent on him. You're going to need him to do
a specific role. So I would guess that Ben Johnson
would tell you, that we are trying to get him

(42:44):
to master doing a small percentage of things and be
really good at that moving forward in the season. But
we're not depending on him to catch balls. That's Colson
Loveland's job. Or to make plays when Loveland isn't. That's
Cole Komet's job. So he gets some runway. But if

(43:05):
he becomes a player faster than you believe, then maybe
you could use Cole Komet in the offseason as a
trade bait. and utilize that to get a defensive player
to make a trade because he's a good player and
a play for everybody. But I think that Walsh quote is,
and this goes for any player, there comes to a
line where you go, for whatever reason, like Bill Walsh said,

(43:28):
not because people aren't trying, coaches are trying, the player's trying,
game starts, he just can't play. I saw a quote
today from Robert Sala. Almost it didn't feel real. that
maybe that Cam Ward has PTSD from last season. Like,
are we serious? I mean, this is September 30th, year two.

(43:51):
He falls under that Walsh quote. Like, there's going to
be a time where it just turns out he can't
play in the NFL. And the faster you learn that,
the faster it is to move forward and get out
of a mistake. Because I don't care who you are,
any general manager, any human being, me, you, we're all
going to make mistakes. Hopefully, for those of us in

(44:12):
the NFL, you get a first-round pick every year. The
cap keeps going up. For a lot of human beings,
if you were to make a purchase with all of
the money you have, whether it's a house, whether it's
a business, and it goes belly up, it could ruin you.
One pick in football, even at the quarterback position, cannot

(44:35):
ruin you. The only way it can... is when you
hold onto the rope and don't let go. And I
think it's very difficult for a lot of GMs, like
this is a quality I'll give Howie. If those guys
that he drafted a year ago cannot play, they will
move off him. They will not hold on long. They're
not going to Warren Buffett long-term investing here, hoping that

(44:57):
the thing keeps ripping up. If it keeps trending down,
they will pivot. And I think the best front offices
just don't hold on to hope. So I guess big
picture on Roush. Third round pick, three games. I think
the expectations are pretty low. My question statement with the

(45:19):
NCAA transfer portal. Why can't the NCAA take a page
from European soccer? Each agreement, NIL that being, would contain
a buyout clause. Quote, transfer fee. So if you wanted
to poach a player from Dayton, for example... you'd have
to pay Dayton a transfer fee. Then you can negotiate

(45:40):
the player's second school NIL separately. For instance, if Ohio
State wanted a standout player from Dayton, Ohio, he would
have to pay Dayton whatever the player's buyout clause was.
This way, the small school who is losing a quality
player would then get assets in return. That they could
spend on additional talent or upgrades to their program. At

(46:02):
the Power 4 level, this might even discourage teams from
getting a new quarterback every single year. Let's say Trinidad
Chambliss has a $ 5 million buyout. This might discourage teams
from paying much and perhaps slow the carousel. I hear
what you're saying. And you make, I would say, overall

(46:23):
a fair and good point. Here's why it's unrealistic though.
If I'm Dayton or Trinidad Chambliss at Ferris State, do
you think Trinidad Chambliss was making 20 grand at Ferris State?
Who is going to sign a contract that pays me $ 10, 000, $ 20, 000?
Yet if someone wants my services, they have to pay

(46:46):
for me to break that contract $ 5 million. Or the
Dayton example. Let's say Dayton's paying a player 25 grand.
What do you think their buyout is? Can't be more
than that. So the buyouts at the smaller schools are
nothing because they can't afford to pay them anything. Now,
Ole Miss, LSU stole some players. Their contracts are probably

(47:09):
hundreds of thousands of dollars. For example, I think I've
told this story. Have a buddy, position coach, for a
non-Power 4 school. They're good. They're like a 9-10 win
team every year. They get guys drafted. He said, I
have an all-conference player. An SEC team signs him. two-year deal,

(47:29):
500 grand a year. That guy in his first year
cannot start. So he's at an SEC program. He's not
the starter and he's just sitting there. And this is
not Alabama or Georgia. So they're not competing for the
national title. But this guy was, I think at the
non-Power 4 school, was making low six figures, like $ 80, 000, $ 100, 000, $ 120, 000.

(47:53):
It wasn't probably a lot for the school, but relative
to the big boys, the other SEC school comes in,
offers them so much money, even as coaches, like, you've
got to go. But what they cannot do when they
give you those contracts, they're not going to guarantee you
a starting position unless you're the Cam Coleman's of the world.

(48:13):
Most guys coming from little schools might start, might not.
They have to win the job. And then he called
the little school and says, I want to come back.
He wants to come back because I'm not playing. I
hope to get drafted one day, even if it's in
the fifth, sixth, seventh round, but I'm never going to
get drafted as a guy who's a backup. So they're like, okay,

(48:34):
we'll bring you back. Well, the buyout of the guy's
contract was like, I think he told me like $ 120, 000.
He's like, bro, we can't even pay you $ 120, 000. let
alone buy the contract just to get you back. And
you go, well, why does even this SEC school want him? Because,
I mean, if they get an injury, the guy will start,

(48:56):
you know? So it's like, yeah, we're paying for depth.
And I think that's where it becomes complicated because the
small schools just can't afford to pay you anything. Ashton Gentry,
I think, is going to go down as an outlier.
A guy who was offered seven figures his senior or

(49:18):
junior year, I forget. Maybe he was a senior. Obviously,
it's his last year at Boise. I forget exactly what year.
If he was first-year draft eligible, he had been draft
eligible for multiple years. But clearly, it's not hard to
figure out. The Texases, the Oregons, the SEC schools wanted
Ashton Genting. He stayed loyal because Boise was the only

(49:41):
team that gave him a shot when he was 18
years old. But they could, and they're the highest end,
the highest end non-Power 4 program. And I remember reading
the Athletic article. It was like, eh, give or take $ 300, 000,
which is obviously a ton of money for a young guy,
but relative to what he could have gotten, all these
guys typically leave those situations. It's not normal for the

(50:06):
Quinion Mitchells, Ashton Genties, The dude the Dolphins took from
San Diego State last year. If they are going to
have massive contract offers from national title contenders, it's hard
to even blame them for leaving. Because those guys are
so good, they're guaranteed to play. But it's that middle tier.
It's like, hey, you're an all-conference guy in the Mountain West. Okay,

(50:29):
University of Washington and UCLA and Oregon are all offering
you some money. Well, it's like, I might not even
start at Oregon. I'll go to Washington. And then you
don't win the job. But if you're coming from San
Diego State or New Mexico, those schools can't pay you
any money. So there's no buyout. That's why it's easy

(50:53):
to steal. If the Fresno State or San Diego State
coach becomes a star, like DeBoer when he was at
Fresno State, Washington didn't poach Georgia's coach. Fresno State's paying
him like $ 2 million a year. So what's his buyout?
800 grand? You see some of these buyouts are 10,
20 million dollars just to have access to the coach,

(51:15):
assuming he wants to leave. It's all financially based. I
have a question about the Eagles, about my Eagles. Blake's Eagles,

(51:38):
not mine. My take has always been, what does Nick
Sirianni do? He's a CEO head coach who is bad
at hiring coordinators, doesn't seem to have a good flow
for the game, so he makes bad decisions during the game,
and he seems incredibly immature. Basically the opposite of a
good CEO. The Harbaughs, Tomlin, Belichick, etc. Oh, he's also offensive-minded,

(52:03):
but he was so bad at calling plays, he got
fired as he was the head coach from that duty.
I understand he won a Super Bowl, but I would
argue that was more due to Fangio and Kellen Moore.
What do people see in him, and what do you
think it would take for him to get fired? I
would say, overall, Howie and Jeffrey Lurie like him a lot.

(52:26):
It's why they've always been very loyal and supportive of
Nick Sirianni. I do think that Nick Sirianni is one
of the rare guys with his resume. Won a ton
of games. Obviously been to multiple Super Bowls. Even his
shitty years, he's winning the division, making the playoffs. Who
has very limited juice within the organization. One thing that

(52:49):
stood out to me on Monday Night Football... They panned
a Sean Manning in the box. They panned a Fangio
in the box. The Eagles have to lead the league
with people on the payroll in the boxes. Some teams,
obviously all these staffs are bigger now. I still can't
get over several days later how many people were in
the coaching boxes. And this goes college too. What are

(53:12):
all these coaches doing? There's a lot of talk about
some of these scams going all over America. I'll tell
you a scam, and this has been going on for
a while. are some of these coaching staffs in college
in the NFL. I mean, you've got dudes making six figures. Like, what,
do you coach a position? No. Do you have an
official role? No. What do you really do? It's like, well,
I break down second downs every week. It feels a

(53:37):
little unnecessary. I think for Sirianni to get fired, they
would have to implode. It would have to get really ugly.
I'm talking like 6-11. And if they played like they
did the other night, the Bears are good. And it
was in Chicago. Like, they would have to be bad.

(53:57):
I would say finish like the Giants or Commanders finish
above them in the division. And I would say Dallas
winning the division would feel the worst. If Harbaugh beats
them with like Jameis Winston and J.J. McCarthy and Mariota,
it could just get ugly and weird. The Eagles are
paying a lot. I mean, they're paying so much for
Sirianni's staff. Fangio makes $ 5- 6 million a year. Sean Manning's

(54:23):
got 7 million coaches on his side of the ball.
Sirianni makes a lot. They're paying a lot to the players.
It could just get weird. It would have to get
weird for it to go down, would be my take.
Through the first four weeks, it looks like Florida hit

(54:45):
it out of the park with John Summerlin. It was
also an easy hire to make. In his last four
seasons at two different programs, he's 43-12. He made Troy
and Tulane powerhouses immediately in their respective conferences, even taking
Tulane to the playoffs. Dude can flat out coach. I agree.

(55:07):
He's a fucking star. And he's just a stud. I
like that guy a lot. Don't know much about him,
but he just seems like the type of guy I'd
want in my life. Here's an interesting take. Before Florida
ever offered Summerall the job, they were after Lane. Auburn
had Summerall ready to take the job. He had one disagreement, though,
with the athletic director. Keeping the defensive coordinator DJ Jerkin

(55:32):
would be his decision. No-brainer, right? Well, it was not
for Cohen. It has been said that his ego was
severely hurt by the ultimatum, and he did not hire
Summerall as a result. Summerall would be hired by Florida
not long after. I like Golish, but I think we
just hired Eli Drinkwitz, and Florida got Kirby Smart. I

(55:55):
think what's underrated in some of these, there wasn't even
a question, he just wanted to go on a rant,
the Auburn fan, clearly. I like Golish too. I mean,
I've watched Josh Pate sat down with him in the offseason.
I watched that. I remember texting Josh Pate. I said,
I watched your interviews. I didn't know much about with
John Summerall and Alex Golish. And I came away really impressed.

(56:16):
Summerall has, I think Kirby Smart's a pretty good comp.
There's like a fuck you edge to him. Kirby now
is kind of fat. He's not really in the prime
of his career, like mid-90s safety for Georgia. I don't
think Kirby's moving super fast anymore. Summerall would be like,

(56:36):
you wouldn't want to get in the octagon with that guy.
Trust me, I'm not discounting Kirby's internal toughness. I just
think if you were in decent shape, you could run
around for a while and tire him out. But look
who Kirby learned from. I mean, he was Nick's right-hand
guy for 15, 20 years. You've got to have some
FU edge to you to be a good football coach.

(57:01):
To me, it's a non-negotiable. Even my offensive guys, I
need them to be nuts, and I need them to
be inclined to the defensive side of the ball, whether
it's like Sark and Ryan Day are guys that understand
the recruiting on that side of the ball and allocating funds.
You know, Dan Lanning. Like, you watch Dan Lanning rant

(57:22):
and rave, you're like, God, he kind of reminds me
of Saban and Kirby Smart. And so when he met
Lincoln Riley at the Coliseum, is it shocking at all
that he shoved him around? Like, it wasn't shocking to
me at all to see him watch UCLA on tape,
who haven't really played anybody, but have a lot of
respect for Bob Chesney in the program. Because you know

(57:45):
what UCLA is immediately? Now, are they going to win
10 games, or are they going to end up winning
7 or 8? I... More likely seven or eight, but
I'm not discounting Bob Chesney. If you told me they
end up nine and three and they knock off one
of their big-time opponents, definitely believable. But you know what
Dan Lanning sees when he watches UCLA? A tough program.

(58:06):
And you can't fake toughness, right? In business, you can't
fake the guys that have the balls. And we all
know those people, some of you guys listening are, that
are just kind of afraid to take some risks. And listen,
it's not in everyone's personalities. Some people are drawn to risk.
It kind of fills their cup. And other people are

(58:26):
terrified of it. I grew up, my dad was not
a big risk taker. Life, business, like it just wasn't,
he was pretty just kept it to like, I wouldn't
say the slow lane, but some of his friends, people,
other farmers he was around, like Sometimes it backfires. There's
no guarantee. I'm not acting like every risk you take

(58:49):
in business works out for you, in life works out
for you. But if you're unwilling to do that, you've
got no chance. It's the only way to get ahead.
Just like in football. The only way to be good
at football... Clearly, college is different than the pros. In
the pros, there's a scheme element that has to be elite.
If you're not an elite schemer, you can't... maintain and

(59:11):
sustain being good at football it's impossible but it's pretty
rare like the bears aren't going to win a super
bowl unless their defense is physical and solid now if
it played like it did the other night against the
eagles They can win the Super Bowl. But the defense
that we've seen over, and I'm not blaming Ben Johnson.
It's not because I don't view him as a tough guy.
He is. You need the personnel. And the Eagles won

(59:32):
a Super Bowl? Well, what did they have? Didn't they
have like four guys that had 10 sacks? You need
physical fucking dudes. In college, because some of the guys
that you get when they're 18, 19 years old, you
kind of create that. Most people didn't show up at
Alabama or for Urban Meyer at Florida just being the
baddest dude in the state. I mean, they might have

(59:52):
been as a prospect, but you couldn't just put them
on the field and they just kick everyone's ass. It's
a mentality that's ingrained in the program. In college, or
I mean in the draft, if I draft, you pick
the player, I'm kind of getting a guy already wired
for war, a.k.a. football, which is not as physical as

(01:00:16):
it once was, but it's still a very physical game.
So when I get Reuben Bain or... Sonny Stiles or
Caleb Downs, like their mentality as a football player can improve, right?
It now becomes truly professional, but I kind of know
what I'm getting into bed with, what I'm getting into
business with. In high school, I think 17, 18 year

(01:00:38):
old kid, you create that. It's harder now in the
transfer portal, but it starts with a program. And I
just watched Summerall talk. It's like, He calls it like
violent Tuesday or something, that they're not allowed to go indoors,
regardless how hot it is, because it's just a violent
day of practice. You know, Pete Carroll used to have that,

(01:00:59):
competition Tuesday, where it was just like full pads, let's go,
let's go to war. And the only reason I can
speak from experience, because for two years I worked around
Pat Hill, who created a lot of guys that went
into the NFL. And a lot of those guys were
one and two star guys. Pat Hill was an old
school offensive line coach and just a tough guy. Andy

(01:01:20):
Reid might smile a lot, but at Andy Reid's core,
he's a former offensive lineman. Andy Reid is a tough guy.
And you can't fake that. And I watched Lincoln Riley
and I just go, not a tough guy. Alex Golish,
he doesn't scream toughness, but I'm giving him the benefit out.

(01:01:40):
I'm interested to watch him play. John Summerall, it's impossible
to watch him talk and not go, This guy's a badass.
I will say this about Lane. I know a lot
of people who know Lane through Fresno State, and Tim
Skipper was his roommate in college. Lane Kiffin's dad was
a badass. Lane Kiffin was not raised by some college professor.

(01:02:08):
No shot at college professors. When I think of the
toughness scale, they're not usually number one. He was raised
by an old school football coach. So Lane's got some
shit to him. And I think all of the guys
that were under Saban know what the mentality's supposed to be.
Lincoln Riley was raised under Mike Leach. It's what I

(01:02:30):
respect about Bob Chesney. Or even Kurt Cignetti. They just
kind of went on their own to little-ass programs and
kind of figured it out on their own, which I respect. Because...
When you're coaching at tiny little schools, no one's talking
about you. No one's watching you. I grew up around
a small little Division II football program, UC Davis. It

(01:02:52):
was a big deal like my dad and the people
that went to school there. I went to games all
growing up. But it ultimately didn't matter to anyone outside
the 5-3-0. No one cared. But people were able to.
Chris Peterson, who would go on to Boise and Washington,
coached there as a young coach. play there and you

(01:03:13):
can kind of hone your skills so i think sometimes
when you go to these small programs and and if
you are kind of destined for greatness you you can
really kind of i would say sharpen your sword there
so you get this bob chesney guys like the biggest
school he's ever coached at was for two years at
jmu like he comes more equipped than your typical just

(01:03:34):
like guy that coached under a big time program coached
a little school for a year or two and then
left I think DeBoer is a good example of that. Now,
I would say this about DeBoer. Like, Kalen DeBoer is
not Nick Saban when it comes to just, this guy's
a badass in terms of like toughness. Saban might be 5'10,

(01:03:58):
a buck 80, but anyone who's ever, I've only met
him one time and I was at a loss for
words because there's an intimidation factor with a little guy.
And this was way before I think he had won
one national championship at that point in time at Alabama.
It was like 2010, maybe two. But he just had, like,

(01:04:19):
Tom Coughlin was the same way. I remember running into
him at the Combine, and again, not the most imposing figure.
This isn't Dan Campbell walking through the halls. But there's
a way you carry, and I'm a huge believer of
this with head coaches. If you're in a room with them,
you just know they got it. And Saban definitely had that.
Urban Meyer, I would imagine, definitely has that. I would

(01:04:43):
bet if you're in a room with John Summerall, he's
the alpha in the room. Lincoln the alpha in the room?
Might be one of the smarter guys in the room,
but this is sport full alphas, especially in college. Question

(01:05:10):
for the mailbag. I started a sports podcast. Any advice
that you have to be successful in the industry and
how I can help myself grow? I would love to
one day have a big YouTube page. I would say
my best advice to anyone starting out would just be

(01:05:30):
to do it all the time. So whatever you're going
to podcast, YouTube, make TikTok videos, you name it. is
you can't just do it once or twice a week.
You can't have three videos a week. You're not, pardon
my take, you're not Joe Rogan. So I would be

(01:05:52):
just doing as much as humanly possible and just figure
out what works, what doesn't work, but consistency. When someone
asks me, they're like, well, you're a full-time podcaster? I'm like, yeah,
think of it like this. I do a daily radio show.
Because when I talk to younger people, they don't look
at me as weird. But if I meet a guy,

(01:06:13):
I got to go to this happy hour thing tonight.
And some people I don't know. And I would imagine
going to be a decent amount of people, over 50
professional people. And it'll just inevitably come. I wish I
could just say I sell real estate, which is an
easier thing to go. I don't want to tell my
life story. But people will look at you weird like, wait,

(01:06:33):
you're a full-time podcaster? But if I said, yeah, I
got a radio show. Like, oh, sweet. What time? I'd
be like, oh, every morning. They wouldn't think twice, right?
But when I say I'm a podcaster, they're like, what?
You make a living out of that? Well, yeah, I
just do this every day. Every single day. And, you know,
I've had hacks, obviously, after we do stuff after all

(01:06:53):
the games. My mother-in-law's in town. She's like, you hear
the holiday schedule? I'm like, I'm not trying to be
the asshole of the family here, but our holiday schedule,
especially now that we have Jack, I don't know if
there's going to be much traveling anymore. The NFL now,
we're very active on the holidays. Your boy and my family,
we just might not be traveling like we used to

(01:07:15):
do in our days of different life. And it's just,
it can become, even though I can do this from everywhere...
It is much easier for me, and this is the
most important thing in my life, non my wife or
my son, that I just, this comes first, right? I'm

(01:07:36):
not saying I skip Christmas to a podcast, but if
there's Christmas games, like we have Christmas and I do
the games. Am I gonna do that forever? Ideally not,
but as of right now, that's not changing anytime soon.
So part of working in this business is not digging ditches.
This is not hard, but some of the times, if

(01:07:58):
you want to maximize your exposure, your interest level, talk
about stuff, like most people don't want to do stuff
on Thanksgiving night or Christmas night or some shitty Thursday
night football game. but if you do that, you're just
more willing to separate. Mailbag, this is from Paul. How
warm is Jed Fish's seat at Washington? Last week was embarrassing,

(01:08:23):
and the program has been a slog to watch for
much of the last two years. I understand he inherited
a tough situation after DeBoer left and was hired partly
for recruiting, but the play calling has been poor, player
development is hard to see, and Desmond Williams has not
made the leap you would expect. I'm also concerned about
Pat Chun. His hire looked like a convenient move from

(01:08:45):
across the state rather than an ambitious national search. I
know UW is not getting a full Big Ten revenue share,
but Seattle is Microsoft, Amazon, Costco, Starbucks, etc. and wealthy alumni.
UW should be doing more with NIL and sponsorships. And
it's not just football. The basketball program is a joke.

(01:09:06):
Is fish a problem, chun a problem, or a bigger
UW athletics problem? I think one issue you guys have
is that one Kalen year when you make the championship game,
is much more of an outlier than the norm. I
didn't watch any of the Minnesota game because by the
time it came on, it's like 8 o'clock at night.

(01:09:29):
I'd been watching football all day. I could tell Maria
was like, I'm not watching UW-Minnesota. I'm like, eh, don't
blame you. Let's throw in the Unabomber for Netflix. So
I saw the clip of P.J. Fleck with the blood
the next day. And UW to me is not worthy.
I didn't expect them to be that good. I think
any time you're quarterbacked, did what he did in the offseason.

(01:09:52):
Hard to come back from that. And there's also arguments
like how good is he actually? They were in a
tough spot when DeBoer filled in for Saban. You know,
I think you have to compare yourself to who you
actually are. And your rival, right, is Oregon. You're not Oregon.
Oregon now is, you know, if you just look at

(01:10:14):
the Big Ten, it's Ohio State-Oregon. I guess Indiana's now
in there, clearly. We'll see. I mean, they won the
national title, but the next three years, are they going
to go to the playoffs every year? As long as
Cignetti's there, I'm not going to bet against them. But
you're much closer to me than to UCLA. Great academic institution.

(01:10:35):
Incredible campus. A place that people take a lot of
pride in going to school. But this isn't USC football.
This isn't Texas football. This isn't Duke basketball. It's not
make or break, do or die. So, I think anytime, like,
you got Kalen Dubour, who should have stayed there forever,

(01:10:57):
but why did he leave? Because the financial backing was
never going to be close to two teams, once they
moved to Big Ten, they were going to play all
the time, and USC and Oregon, who were on his coast. So,
I think you need to figure out a way... whether
you fire Jed Fish or whatever. But you need to
do what UCLA did with Bob Chesney. Find that type guy.

(01:11:19):
Signetti fits perfectly at Indiana. Jed, to me, I don't
know him personally. I know a lot of people that
know him. Famously was Howie Roseman's roommate in college. He's
a big talker. He likes the media. How good of
a coach is he? He had the one good year

(01:11:40):
at Arizona. where he had a bunch of NFL players,
and he deserves credit. He knows what talent looks like.
Is he a dynamic enough coach? Is he a dynamic
enough leader? I think that's more than up for debate.
But you've got to be comfortable with being like, best case,
you're probably eight, nine wins. You're not going back to DeBoer, Penix, Rome, McMillan.

(01:12:03):
That's an outlier season. But can you just consistently be
a solid program? And, like, your NIL is never going
to be Oregon-Ohio State. It's just not. Now, I don't
know enough about the program. Like, you have all those
institutions in your backyard in Seattle. Are they giving money
to the football program? Like, do their higher-ups and their CEOs,

(01:12:24):
do they have connections? Because if they don't, none of
that matters. Right? It just really doesn't. Now, can you
use some of that to get sponsorship deals? Maybe, but, like,
that's just the Seattle market. You know what? USC spent
all this money on the players this year, all the
freshman kids, not because they have some crazy corporate infrastructure

(01:12:46):
in L.A. County, because they're boosters that start stroking checks
to pay for players. So I think there are a
lot of different variables that play into this, but at
the end of the day, your program is never going
to be willing. I don't want to say never, but
more than likely never more than likely not to hang

(01:13:08):
with the big boys. And maybe that's because they simply
don't have access to the money because they don't have
a guy's ability to raise that much money that even
if they got close to your margin for error, okay,
if we do have a big year where we raise
a bunch of money, like South Carolina. I think they're
like a top 20, top 15 team in terms of spending.
And they're headed toward five and seven. And they have

(01:13:30):
all this NFL talent. So if I was one of
the guys, I was a rich guy, big booster. Let's
call me Darius Rucker Middlecoff. It's like, hey, Shane, I'll
give you $ 5 million this year. I'll put it into
the pool to help pay for the players. And then
we go five and seven or six and six and
he gets fired. I'm never giving a penny again. Because

(01:13:50):
it's not like the $ 5 million buys me a decade.
It buys me one season. And then I watch this.
It's one thing to say, hey, I spent some money
and I get Texas or Ohio State. It's like, this
is kind of sweet. Every year we're going to be
in the playoffs. Or even Indiana. It's like, Insignetti I trust.
Do you guys really believe in Jed? In fairness, Minnesota's,

(01:14:12):
it's not like you lost to Rutgers. They're not. That's
probably who you are. You're probably very similar to Minnesota.
Maybe you should just hire that guy. My bald brother,
PJ Fleck. Okay, we'll end on this. Got a potentially
batshit idea. Could you see the Packers looking to clean
house Goody and Matt LaFleur? If so, and I was

(01:14:34):
Ed Policy, I would be going after John Schneider. Get
him on the phone, quote, off the record. to talk
about coming back home. He still has a home here.
And give him the keys to hire a new coach.
I know he's under contract, but you have to at
least make the phone call right. Here's what I would
recommend if I was Vinod, if I was a consigliere

(01:14:58):
to the new ownership group. I would say, I don't
think you guys realize how great you have it. You
have one of, if not the best GMs in the league,
and a rocket ship and a head coach. I would
make them both contract offer slash extensions right now and
make them the highest paid guys at their positions. When

(01:15:21):
this season ends, let's say they go to the playoffs,
even if they lose in the first or second round,
I would make John. What's Howie making? What's whoever? John Lynch,
who's I think the highest paid GM. It's crazy how
it sounds. Part of it because he used Amazon to leverage.
It's like, hey, $ 15 million? We need $ 40 million for
these two guys a year. They're worth every penny. And

(01:15:44):
here's the other thing if I'm John. If they're willing
to make me the highest paid guy and keep me there,
the hard part is, is how do you leave Mike McDonald?
If I just name Howie or John Schneider or whoever
the coach or the GM of X franchise, they blow

(01:16:04):
up the franchise, they make a crazy trade, and they
land John Schneider. Well, his hardest job... is to hire
a coach. Before he does the roster, before he figures
out the quarterback, he's got to get the head coach right.
So if you or me were taking over a franchise
right now, who would we hire as a head coach?

(01:16:24):
He literally has a guy that like 90% of the
franchises would want. So that's the hardest part of the job.
You are, I bet John Schneider would tell you this,
you're 20 times better as a GM with a star
head coach. And he knows what good head coaches look like.
Been around Holmgren, been around Pete, now been around Mike.

(01:16:48):
So it's like, could Green Bay pay him more than Seattle?
The other thing is, Seattle's kind of his baby. It's
fucking his team. And it's not one of those things like,
Mike gets a lot of credit, he gets a lot
of credit. So I think it would just come down
to money. And if I was Seattle's ownership, John is undervalued.

(01:17:09):
very undervalued like how he's how he makes a lot
John Lynch makes a lot there's a select few GMs
who truly make a lot a lot of guys again
relative to society make a couple million dollars and then
there are some that make like 10 12 million dollars
and they're they're underpaid in my opinion right and I
would say John Schneider would be at the top of

(01:17:30):
that list But here's the thing Seattle has, and this
is where, how would you, the guy that just bought
the team is like a historic investor. So what happens
when you invest in a company at the levels in
which he was investing in the companies? Who's the first
person you look at? Management, leadership. Well, I mean, you
got these two guys, cream of the crop. I would

(01:17:53):
imagine that they're taken care of. And if they're not,
if I was Seattle and we like ever let John
go because of whatever, It would just be a non-negotiable. So, now,
the nostalgia, the where I'm from, I think that matters
a little more with college. But it would be, if

(01:18:16):
the Packers were ever able to pull that off, it
would be an all-time coup. What if I'm Mike McDonald
and it ever got out there? It's like, hey, the
Packers fired everybody and they're coming after John. If I'm
Mike McDonald, I immediately do like a sit down with ESPN.
I go on the record like, we have to do
everything possible to keep this guy. I mean, because if

(01:18:37):
I'm Mike, I would never want to lose him. And
I think the powerful part about the NFL is when
you have cohesion at those two jobs, even if you're
not from there, like Andy Reid's from Los Angeles. I
think he's pretty comfortable and content in Kansas City with
this guy Veach. Right? So, yeah, I mean, you can dream.

(01:19:00):
I like a good batshit idea. I will talk to
everyone tomorrow. Enjoy Thursday Night Football. The Volume.