November 28, 2025 • 41 mins
On a Friday edition of The Herd, Doug Gottlieb in for Colin gives credit to the Cowboys and Jerry Jones for knowing something that most people covering the sport did not; they were going to be fine this year.
Doug explains why he was on the right side of the Joe Burrow argument this past week as the decision to play the star quarterback was met with criticism.
Doug welcomes former Bucs GM Mark Dominik to talk about the Cowboys, Shedeur Sanders and all of the headlines around the NFL.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
Oh What Up America? Doug Gott leave in for Colin.
This is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however
you may be making us fun of your day. Thanks
so much. Colin is on vacation. You are very likely
out and about. Maybe you're doing Black Friday shopping. Maybe
(00:44):
you're driving around somebody who's doing Black Friday shopping. Maybe
you had to work today, Like I got it, ma
there what you gotta do? Welcome in day after Thanksgiving.
Obviously you probably feel like you're like your swine, right.
I mean we ate it like two o'clock yesterday. I'm
(01:06):
still full. I'm still full. But a good day for football.
Packers take down the Lions, Cowboys take down the Chiefs.
Bengals with Joe Burrow without and with Jamar Chase end
up taking down the Baltimore Ravens. So we'll get to
some football. Plus we've got unbelievable rivalry weekend in college
(01:28):
football and the Egg Bowls one people are paying attention
to because they want to know what Lane Kiffin's doing.
All that is going to be discussed over the next
three hours. One of my favorite parts of listening to
Colin and being Colin's friend for years is the when
call them was right, when call them was wrong? Right.
(01:48):
But I think there's a good portion of all of
us that need to go a my bad. Maybe this
is the classic. Cowboys aren't really good. They're just not
as bad as we thought they would be. But the
reality is the Cowboys took down the Chiefs, the Chiefs,
(02:09):
the team. And again I'll be the first one to
tell you I've always just operated under the until further notice,
Chiefs win the AFC West Chiefs get to the AFC
Championship Game because that's what they do with Pat Mahomes
at quarterback, and until prove it otherwise, I was gonna
I'm gonna die on that die on that hill. But
(02:33):
how can you not be impressed by the Dallas Cowboys.
I get it, I'm with you. I love when the
Packers took down the Cowboys a couple of years ago
in the playoffs, Dak throws all those picks in the
first half. I like you had just an enjoyable experience
watching the Cowboys fan meltdown on social media. But since
(02:56):
the bye week they beat the Raiders created the Raiders
aren't particularly good, but we didn't think the Cowboys were good.
And remember this is after getting destroyed by Denver and
getting beaten by the Arizona Cardinals at home. The season
could have gone the way of the Dodo. Right. They
had lost three out of four games, two of them
(03:17):
to non playoff teams in the Carolina Panthers in the
Arizona Arizona Cardinals. And what have they done over the
last five days. They beat the Eagles and they beat
the Chiefs. Granted both at home, but both thought to
be I mean, that's the last you know, Super Bowl
teams and teams that were thought to be playoff teams
this year. So at some point we go, hey, you know,
(03:43):
they're not perfect. They create a lot of noise just
to create noise. They do seem to put themselves in
the same conundrum on a yearly basis, where they wait
until the last second and then always overpay their guy.
But this year is different. Instead of overpaying Michael Parsons,
they traded him and they were committed to stopping the run.
(04:05):
And guess what, it kind of worked. Defense isn't great,
but it wasn't gonna be great with Michael Parsons, and
they handed the franchise to Dak Prescott. And by handed
to him, It's not just the contract extension they gave
him last year. It's not just the fact that he's
the starting quarterback and they put weapons around him, you know,
(04:27):
going out and getting Pickens this year in a trade.
It's that they kept Brian Schottenheimer for the most part
because he's a good offensive coordinator. Dak Prescott likes him,
and they didn't want to have another language in Dak
Prescott's here when this one clearly works for him. And
what has Dak Prescott done three point fifty four two
last weekend, three twenty yesterday, one hundred and twelve yards
(04:49):
with CD Lamb last week it was Pickens that was
the main target. It doesn't matter. Dak Prescott has shown
himself to be a top ten at worst quarterback in
the regular season this year, maybe even top five. And
though it is offense first, the defense does stop the run.
They are better than we thought. The Cowboys. They're not great,
(05:11):
They're not gonna win the Super Bowl, but they're far
from the laughing stock that people want to portray the
mass and as a collective group of Cowboys haters, which
most of us are right, it's weird. It's, for whatever reason,
a very polarizing team. You either are a Cowboys fan
and a constant believer that this is the year, or
(05:34):
you kind of laugh and scoff at the Cowboys, even
if they're not a rival of your team. And I've
said this on my show, the Doug Gottlieb Show follows
this show it has for the last eight years on
Fox Sports Trading on the iHeartRadio app. I've said on
my show that yes, Jerry Jones does things just for effect.
Jerry Jones will say some weird stuff, but by and large,
(05:56):
whether it's Jerry or his son, if you ask football
people that I'll tell you Cowboys have good players. It
doesn't always work, and it hasn't gotten them Super Bowl.
But the Cowboys, if we're questioning Jerry as a GM
in terms of their evaluations, some of their signings. It's
not going to be one hundred percent hit rate. It
(06:17):
isn't for anybody, Chiefs, Eagles, nobody hits one hundred percent
free agents or draft picks. But they're better more often
than they're not when him and his group are making selections.
Here's Jerry talking about the two big wins of the
over a four day stretch.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I have them, really, I don't remember a better plub
I've got two games back to back here at home,
and these guys played inspired.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Kansas City had.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
A nice crowd here, and so it was really important
to us to play the way we did because they
were here to for kindly be.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
There for Kansas City.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
So I just can't tell you the respect I.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Have Kansas City.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Here's Brian Shott, number, the head coach of the cow Boys,
on his quarterback Dak Prescott's performance.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I thought he was incredible. I mean, you know, I
really do. I think, you know, throw an interception on whatever,
the second or third play the game is never how
you want to start. We were actually were hot, and
you know, he tried to beat it with the throw
and the corner did a nice job. He kind of
baited him into it. But I mean, that's that's who
we are as a football team. You know, we go
out there and we turn it over in the first
couple of plays. They go I think two plays and
score a touchdown, and we never panicked. We're not going
(07:24):
to panic this team.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Why would we panic.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
We've got all the confidence in the world and one another,
and then we're going to figure it out and we're
going to make, you know, really good adjustments.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And and look, there is a discussion about the Chiefs
and the ten penalties, but outside of fourth down conversions,
where the Chiefs got three out of three, Cowboys more yards,
more first downs, fewer penalties, nine of sixteen on third down,
whereas the Chiefs were five of thirteen, and they had
(07:54):
the ball longer than the Chiefs, and the Chiefs didn't
turn it over and didn't win the game. Here's Dak
Prescott on his team.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
Having to get these wins against two elite teams. I mean,
the two teams that played in the Super Bowl last year.
Last year is last year. But you're talking about two
organizations that obviously know how to win, and we just
beat them both in two great games. As you said
in four days and just showing the resiliency of this unit,
of this brotherhood on top of everything that we've been through. Yeah,
(08:26):
I don't know if there's been two more impressive wins,
but I can tell you right now that we're not
going to just sit on some high because of that.
We know we've got a big one coming again next week.
And all this really does for us is just give
us more confidence knowing that we can go play with whoever.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's true, and they do have a big one. They
go to Detroit. Detroit just lost the Packers yesterday. You
know that one's right around the corner here on a Thursday,
so you know, both teams have the same amount of
time off, but it's right back at it. Then they
get Vikings at home, Chargers at home, they go to
the Commanders, to the Giants. I mean, even if they
can't beat the Lions, will probably be favorites in three
(09:04):
of those last four games, and the window for the
Cowboys making the playoffs is very much open. To the
point of is this This is not me to saying
the Cowboys are the best team in the NFL. This
is not me saying Dak Prescott's the best quarterback in
the NFL, or Brian Schottenheimer's the best coach in the NFL,
or Jerry Jones the best GM in the NFL. But
(09:26):
when we started the season and they had the hold
out with Micah Parsons and he's laying there on the
training table, you had so many people saying, pay the
guy Cowboys are and it's easy. Cowboys are a clown organization.
They don't pay guys, and then ultimately they overpay and
they're still not commedy good. And then when they were
competitive with Philadelphia week one of the season, you can
(09:48):
feel free to raise your hand. I will as well
where you think I was surprised by it. Then they
get blown out by the Bears. Third week of the season,
you're like, okay, they're addressing the mean. They tie the
Packers and that felt like a massive upset. They lose
to the Panthers, and now they're playing more like the
(10:08):
Cowboys you expected. They win the last three, they're very
much in the playoff hunt, and it's okay to go.
You know, they did a pretty good job considering they
don't have a great defense. They got to rework it
in the offseason. But now they have some draft picks,
and they locked up Dak long term. And if you
like me, were never really a Dak guy. I'm not
(10:30):
a Dak Denier like he stinks, but he has not
been good in the playoffs. He's been outstanding this year.
They've been way better than anybody thinks. And you can
make fun of Jerry Jones's comments and the weird way
in which sometimes he tells a story, but those are
(10:51):
pretty good football guys. DEVI got a pretty good job
of putting a more than decent product on the field,
and the Cowboys are way better than most anyone thought.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Yeah, Jase two, Yeah, remember the Jerry Jones documentary that
came out. I forget the name of it, but it was.
It was a really good watch. It was the Jerry
Jones version of the Cowboys story in the nineties, yep.
And the big takeaway from that for me was that
the biggest point of contention between him and Jimmy Johnson
(11:24):
over the years, and I don't even think they've settled
it to today, was who made the deal for Marshall Walker?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, who gets credit?
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Who gets credit? And they've they've they literally didn't talk,
and they had all these issues I had thought when
he traded Micah at the beginning of the year that
he was kind of feeling his oats from that documentary.
He watched it and he's like, I'm gonna make a deal.
This is all me. I signed off on this, and
this is going to be one of my signature moments
(11:52):
as a football decision maker. And can you say now
that so far that has worked because he got so
much crap when he first did it.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No question, I think he got a lot of crap
because people also thought it was it was his own
fault for not resigning Micah Parsons early. But it was early,
you know, and at some point you get to the ay,
we're not going to be great defensively with him, so
why should we resign him to a gigantic contract which
will harbor our ability to be good, you know, in
(12:29):
the future. But yeah, maybe it was as a reaction
to that doc Maybe the timing was just curious. Maybe
I don't know. You bring up a very very good point,
but all we can go by is this year and
most people thought the Cowboys would kind of be a
joke playing for a high seed, right, and that Brian
Schottenheim would simply have the job for a short period
(12:51):
of time, and then he'd bring in somebody else. And
to this point it's okay to go, Hey, we were wrong.
We're wrong.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Be sure to catch live edition of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 8 (13:08):
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Speaker 2 (13:19):
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Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's The Herd. In for Colin. I'm Doug Gottlieb. Welcome, Welcome,
Welcome in Hope. You had a great Thanksgiving, heelpe, you
just had a wonderful Thanksgiving. This is the first time
I've had all three of my kids in Green Bay
(14:02):
with me and It's pretty cool, all right, just so different.
I've had each of them, have been spend plenty of
time here in the past, but having them all kind
of with me and experiencing being a kid of a
coach and having them buy a practice and having them
with my team fascinating. Hope you got a chance to
catch up with family. Hope you got a chance to
(14:24):
have a good meal and watch them football. We'll talk
about sports for the next two hours. We do have
Sean Merriman up coming this hour lights out well. Jonas
will get his thoughts on what that's wrong with Lamar Jackson.
I'll give my own thoughts on what's wrong with Lamar
Jackson upcoming, but let's talk about the other side of that.
(14:44):
The Bengals took down the Ravens late last night and
we praised Joe Burrow for his play, but more than
anything for just playing right. Here's Joe Burrow on his
(15:04):
playing for the first time since week two.
Speaker 9 (15:06):
It had to knock some rust off there in the
first half, so I expect myself to play better, but
it was great to be back out there. I was,
you know, a lot of emotions running through it.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
At the end of the game.
Speaker 9 (15:17):
So it's just good to be back with the guy.
You know, anytime you can get a big win like this,
it's it's exciting. And guys work really hard for this.
You know, we are where we're at with our record,
but guys work really hard to go out and put
put on good performances on Sunday.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
So when you're able to do that, it feels good.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
It should feel good. It should feel good, and you
feel good about him being rewarded for playing when you
know plenty of people in society would give him an
out for not playing. Ah, you're not gonna make the playoffs.
They can't ever protect You're always getting hurt. Why why
would you even play? And when your coaches you know,
(15:57):
what it says to me is is two things. One,
I mean, Joe Burrow is a guy that's true leadership. Right,
anyone can play when you're in the playoffs or you're
fighting to one game, to be like, who doesn't want
to play? Then? But you make all that money as
(16:17):
a quarterback to lead your team and to play hard
when you don't have to play hard, or to play
when you don't have to play. I'll give you the
sports radio analogy Jase, do you know this to be true?
You know, at some people have told me before, like
morning shows are pretty well compensated. Right in local radio,
(16:43):
it's always been morning and afternoon drive. And they'll tell
you like a morning show isn't You're not getting paid
necessarily for talking on the radio. You're getting paid to
show up every day when people want to sleep in,
but on at six you got to be there, you know,
no later than five, five fifteen. And that means you
(17:03):
got to lock in and get up at four and
be alert and aware and awake and after it. They
don't pay to do the show, They pay to get
up well. The same as true at quarterback. You're not
just getting paid to throw touchdown passes at the end
of games. You're getting paid for everything, every practice, every game,
anytime you're available. That's what true leadership is. And it's weird,
(17:28):
like we've gotten to this place to where Joe Burrow
playing when he's healthy enough to play is somehow heroic
when it should be what he's supposed to do. He
even sounded like he felt that way, didn't he And
this is more of an us problem than a him problem.
It's like that Chris rock Line. Remember Chris rock This
(17:51):
is like four or five comedy specials ago when he
talked about you know guys bragging about taking care of that.
I take care of my kids. Well, that's what you're
supposed to do. I play. I'm playing this weekend. Well
that's what you're supposed to do if you're Joe Burrow.
The other part to it is that it shows you
(18:15):
that he wants Zach Taylor to be his head coach.
That's what shows me, because if you don't want that
guy to be your head coach, you don't play. And
the likelihood of them losing and have a terrible record
is greater, and the boors the record, the more likely
they're going to replace the coach. It's not a Jimmy Chitwood,
but it's close to, and for people who don't know
(18:37):
the Jimmy Chitwood reference, it goes back to the movie Hoosiers.
Gene Hackman's character is under pressure. He's a new coach,
he's from outside of this small town. The townspeople want
to get rid of him. They've already voted to get
rid of him, and that's when the star player, who
had not yet been playing, comes in and says it's
time that I start playing ball. Everybody cheers, and he says, hey,
(19:00):
one more thing, coach goes, I go, coach days I play.
That's the Jimmy Chipwood. And when you're the best player
in the highest paid player. When he's playing, and he
doesn't necessarily have to, he wants to, it shows he
wants Zach Taylors a head coach. One Zach Taylors head coach.
(19:21):
So I mean, I think I think both of those
things are absolutely true. That he is one. I mean,
that's a the football player. Football players play football. It's
kind of a matter of fact to it. And he was.
And I'll give you one more thing than it does.
You know, there's there's lots to talk about us. We
make the MVP a quarterback award, will make the Heisman
(19:43):
Trophy a quarterback award, when reality of it is nothing
says that quarterback is the most important position in the league.
Like Joe Burrow who didn't play great, but simply his presence,
(20:03):
his demeanor, his abilities. Jamar Chase has been great. Jamar
Chase is great. I think Jamar Chase is the best
wide receieve in the league. And I don't know if
there's a close second. But Jamar Chase can be great
and they can still not win. Joe Burrow can be
good upgrade over older Joe Flacco and they can still win.
(20:30):
Can't say that Jamar Chase quarterback just a more impactful,
more powerful And I'm not telling you anything they didn't know,
but we do at some point get in the denial
phase of well, we're overvaluing quarterbacks. No we're not. It
literally is that important. And in order to be a
leader as a quarterback, these are the things that some
people don't get. To be a leader, you have to
(20:51):
play in that game to be a real leader. You know.
That's the thing with I'll give you one Newton, right
Cam Newton famously in the Super Bowl ball was on
the on the ground, they're they're down six, and he
doesn't dive on it. And after the game he was
(21:13):
he was eviscerated by the press, rightfully so, because he said,
I can't I can't go get that ball. I gotta
worry about my legs, my knees. In other words, his legs,
his knees are more important than his team and the
Super Bowl. Same thing goes for for Cam Newton what
(21:38):
he said recently, which is you know on ESPN. On
ESPN he said, or maybe it was on a was
on a podcast Chase too, where he said personal success
is more important because you make more money based upon os. Yeah,
hey it. Personal success is more important than than team's
success because that's how you get paid. That's how everyone
(22:01):
knows you're not really a leader when you're about yourself
more than everybody else and more than winning. Everybody sees
through that. Real leadership, the real stuff is what Joe
Burrow's doing. Is what Joe Burrow's doing. You know, I've
(22:24):
said this honestly about about Mike Trout, like in many
ways more impressed over the years for him going to
work with the Angels when they had no hope of
the playoffs. Then you would have Mookie Betts who knows
he's gonna be in the playoffs every year. That's way easier.
Here's Cam Newton, like a week and a half ago
on ESPN.
Speaker 10 (22:48):
Would you rather being a spot where you can individually achieve,
have success, have statistics and lose or would you want
to be someone that contributes to a team that can win.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
A Super Bowl?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And I'm glad you asked that.
Speaker 11 (23:01):
When you're talking about individual play, this is how I
this is how I take care of my family.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Team success don't take care of my family. So if
I'm thinking about it from a personal standpoint, of course,
we want the best of both worlds.
Speaker 11 (23:15):
But if you're asking me, what gives you extensions, what
gives you top tier money, what gives you certain things,
there's some more players that have rings, championships and things.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
That are struggling rather than so quote unquote.
Speaker 11 (23:30):
Bus that has had money and they're doing right by
their money.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, no, that's not true. That's actually the opposite of
what the truth is. But it also shows that Cam
Newton is about Cam Newton, which again you're allowed to be.
It just doesn't make you a leader of my team
or most teams or quarterback. And I'm not making Joe
Burrow owed to be a hero. I think that's the
crazy thing about our society is we've gotten into this
(23:58):
whole idea of hey, you only have to play when
the playoffs are on the line, Like why, huh? Doesn't
work that way? Not the way it works in radio.
We don't pay it to do the radio. I pay
(24:18):
to show up on time. Every day. In being a quarterback,
you can't just lead when it's convenient for you to lead.
And if you're about yourself, that's not leadership. That's not leadership.
Every guy hits that moment you feel it less drive,
less fire. I don't accept it. I fight back with
(24:42):
M drive built on real science, use Collins exclusive Black
Friday Code heard thirty five for thirty five percent off
at mdrive dot com. Mdrivefromend dot com. Jay stew I
told you last week earlier this week again, I get
my I've been try traveling so much as you know,
like I'm I know it's Friday only because yesterday was
(25:04):
Thanksgiving which is on Thursday. But you love to make
fun of gen Z. I kind of think this is
a gen X thing, right, because our generation constantly makes
fun of gen Z for only working when they want
to work. But our generation came up with many of
(25:25):
these ideas, especially in sports, of load management, to guys
missing games because they weren't going to play for a
championship or weren't going to play for the playoffs. And
you know, we're hypocrites for now champion a guy for
doing something that we called him stupid for doing in
our own right.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
In my take on gen Z has everything to do
with you and me, we as parents, our generation as
parents has made gen Z into the most entitled generation
of all time, the generation that doesn't want to stay
in one job, that seems to think that that work
needs to be fun and you need to make friends
(26:03):
or else it's not a job. All these things are true,
but you're right, they're our fault. And the current system
in place right now for sports was created by coaches
of our generation. Whether so the whole load management thing.
That's why this is an interesting, like human experiment, especially
on how sports are covered, because you know this week
(26:25):
that there were people who have been crying about load
management for many years who also said, why are the
Bengals playing Joe Burrow? Why put them in that place?
And there's a huge contradiction there.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Totally agree, Totally agree, And it's the weirdest thing. It's
the it's literally the same people, the same people.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon East. They're not a Empacific Doug Gall.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Even for Colin. It's the Herd. You're on Fox Sports
Trade on the iHeartRadio app, broadcasting from Green Bay, Wisconsin. Most,
mostly in the Midwest, know that it's coming. We got
a little dust in the other day, but it's it's coming.
It's coming tomorrow, first first snowstorm of the season. Mark
(27:15):
Dominic doesn't have these problems, right, I mean, he he
picked an organization in Tampa. He's a Florida guy, Florida, California.
People like, I don't know what you're talking about. How
you talking about former gentle manager of the tamp Bay Buccaneers.
Of course, spent his entire professional life in the National
Football League and he joins us now in the herd
on Fox Sports Radio. How were we so wrong about
(27:39):
the Cowboys? Mark?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, you know, they've just been so inconsistent. It's been
hard to understand what team we're going to see each week.
And yesterday we saw that the offense continues to shine
under Brian Schottenheimer and what Dak Prescott was able to do,
and it certainly George Dickens made a lot of great plays,
so along with Ferguson and so the Cowboys have found
(28:01):
a way to be, you know, just frustratingly inconsistent, but
yet still have a shot and a path to the
postseason somehow.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Okay, what about the Chiefs. You know, it's like you
go back about a month ago, You're like, all right,
here they come and here they sit. You know, it's
it's I mean, I look, my faith remains in Andy
Reid and Pat Mahomes, but heck dayed loss coming out
of a bye, which you know does have more in
(28:30):
Kansasity than in Philadelphia, but rarely happens. And you look,
the Broncos and Bills are good teams. The culture good teams.
So some of its schedule, but some of it is
they're just what's missing there?
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Well, I think two things. I think Number one, you know,
we saw sadly Josh Simmons looks like he might be
done for the year. You know, John Taylor's they're going
with their second or third and fourth offensive tackles. And
in Kansas City, we've seen it over and over again.
When that offensive line starts to get to play, they
can't win. And that's where they sit right now, is
they just can't keep as much as Patrick was, you know,
(29:06):
throwing the ball well and obviously it touched down yesterday.
That I'm that offensive lines in shambles right now. And
that's that's the demise of the Chiefs and why they
won't make the postseason. Even with a couple of teams,
I think they can win. The other part of the
Chiefs that you see when you watch them play is
they're not fast. Defensively, they're strong, they're powerful, but they're
not fast. And to me that shows up as well.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
You know what that reminds me of. It reminds me
of the end of the Patriots run, right, I mean
when when the downfall of the Patriots. Obviously when Brady left,
they didn't have a quarterback, but even prior to that,
people like yourself, NFL people all said that the Patriots
they just weren't fast, they weren't flying around anymore. How
(29:49):
hard is that to fix? Can you fix that in
one offseason?
Speaker 4 (29:53):
I think you can. I mean again, you're going to
you know, decide what you want to do for Ancy,
but the draft is going to be a piece where
you can absolutely add some speed and get to you know,
maybe a linebacker. They need a speed rush edge is
what they really need to need. Somebody that can come
off the edge. I can just you know, win the fastball,
and that's what they don't have. To me consistently at all.
(30:13):
And so I think you're gonna have to look to
the draft, you know, and then say first or second round.
That's where I think the Chiefs have to pinpoint somebody
that can get the edge and can win with a
fastball and hopefully develop an other rush move. The kids
seems can be in a weird spot. I mean, I
don't again, I don't think they're going to make the
postseason just because I don't. I think Jacksonville has too
many wins that are still on the board Buffalo can
(30:35):
you know, and so somebody's going to win you know,
the North somehow. But I just don't think kids that
you can put enough w's on the board now to
get to the postseason. So they'll be picking you know,
top twenty, which they haven't done in a long long time.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Okay, we go from met Lafleur a couple of weeks ago.
I go to the Eagles game and super super conservative
and you and I have talked about it on my
show where I'm like, well, yeah, you lose Tucker to
you know, Tucker Craft, and you lose your left tackle
and the Eagles obviously have an unbelievable pass rush as
we saw against the Lions, and so maybe that's the
(31:08):
reason they were so concerned. You go from that to
what we saw from the Floor over the past two weeks,
especially yesterday, What why has his play calling been so different?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
In your opinion, he's been more aggressive. I think he's
kind of said, hey, look it is what it is
we're going to and I think he feels Jordan Love
when Jordan's kind of in the zone. I think he
calls the game based off out Jordan's playing And yesterday
Jordan was making throws and you know, you got to
give La Floor a ton of credit that fourth down
call to go to throw the ball up to Wix
and Wix makes the catch to you know, basically hid
(31:39):
the game. Kill the clock. That's a huge decision where
they're sitting on the field knowing you can bax them
up all the way to probably the top, you know,
inside the ten and make them drive the link of
the field. Instead, he says, I'm going to win the
game right here, and Jordan Love makes suffrow. But I
think the Floor is feeding off of where Jordan Love's
confidence is, and you're seeing him be more aggressive with
the play call because of it.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Got Laiben for Collins to hurt. Fox Sports Radio, iHeart
Radio app. You and I have also discussed that as
a as a play caller, Dan Campbell feels like he
calls plays, but he's not an offensive coordinator. Right, this
is a play here, at play there, it's not as smooth,
doesn't have the same rhythm. What did you think of yesterday?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. Like, you know,
it's you know, the one thing about Jared Goffin and
maybe the entire offense is having you know, it's interesting
you think about it from the defensive standpoint. For an
offensive standpoint, right, the offensive coordinators like three and out
didn't work out, We'll just punt. The defensive coordinator sits
there and goes, hey, three and and it didn't work.
It's well, they just scored a touchdown. It's just a
(32:40):
completely different way to look for the game, right. I
think if you think of it home, you're like, yeah,
I've never thought of it that way, like an offensive
quarteror like if it doesn't work out, he just pumped
the ball and try again. It doesn't work out. On defense,
you're in trouble. And so that's what makes it hard.
And I also think to your point, Doug's like, you
want to find the rhythm with your quarterback where you're feeling,
like we just talked about with the floor, feeling the
emotions of game, or feeling the offensive guy that he
(33:01):
spends the entire time on. You know that this is
what I feel like is the right direction. Detroit misses
that a little bit. Certainly, Ben Johnson's done a great
job in Chicago put the Bears where they are, but
this is the coordinator that they desperately lost and desperately miss.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Okay, let's go to the night gap. Let's start of
the negative. What's wrong with Lamar Jackson?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, I just I feel like he's just missing grows
and I know that we're all watching it unfold, but
just the lack of like the locked in or the
decision making, and he just looked like he was, you know,
rushing himself and then quickly explicting the fallout and trying
to make him play, and just it's affected his accuracy.
And I don't think it was the weather at all.
(33:45):
This has been something we see with Lamar. It's not
processing very well for him, and therefore you know he's
looking at parent, and then his accuracy's really off, almost
back to like his rookie campaign kind of a feeling
where like, what's going on with this guy? So I
don't have a great answer for why Lamar Jackson feels
like he's regressed based off what he's been able to
do in the past, but I would say that the
(34:07):
main thing is that I did not feel like he's
rushing as you're watching on the field, like he's like
someone's in this year saying you got to make a decision,
hurry up, make a decision. And because of that, I
think he's throwing the ball, you know, early, and it's
throwing off his accuracy.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I guess my question is, you know, Greg Roman, they
thought they had hit a ceiling with Greg Roman's offense,
and my thought was, like he won MVP with that offense.
I don't I don't think that's what it was. But
you know, you're bringing Monk in and it's a passing
based offense. He still runs, but it's more, Hey, now
(34:40):
he's been the league. Now he's a better Now he's
a better passer, not just a thrower. And I again,
and their defense isn't you know when they were when
they were failing in the playoffs. Previously, the defense was
awesome and the offense, you know, was allowed to to
just run the football and to be conservative occasionally take
a shot. Is it too much for him to carry
the team as a passer.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
It feels like it right now, right I mean, Mike
McDonald obtis is a great defensive coardter that has done
a great job as the head coach down Seattle and
getting them in position of the postseason, and they missed
that he was, you know, he's brilliantly smart, and so
they missed that defensive side of the ball where maybe
the town's not to the level, and seeing the Ravens before,
but they were technically on top of everything offensively. The
frustrating thing for me when I watched the Ravens, and
(35:22):
I'm sure Ravens says they could have run the ball
last night like they were running the ball perfectly fine,
they just couldn't stick with it. But you know, if
they can just find a way to get back to
Derrick Henry and giving him the ball twenty plus times
a game, I think that even if they fall behind
ten or twelve or thirteen points, I think you still
want to focus on Derrick Henry getting the ball, because that,
to me is your ticket to finding a way to
(35:44):
still win the North, which again is wide open and
even the Bengals, as hard as it's to imagine, and
so late, you're only a few games out now, you know,
and I know we don't have a lot of games left,
but you know it might be nine and eight or
eight and nine could win that division, which before the
season started, Doug, I would have never dreamt that with
those three teams Pittsburgh obviously, Baltimore and Cincinnati, I would
(36:05):
have never dreamt it would have been that kind of
an outcome of where the seasons ended up.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Right now, I'm obviously as a coach, I'm even a
football fan. You love what Joe Burrows said. And here's
here's kind of my takeaway. Mark, just stick with me.
Let me kind of explain it. Were so critical of
athletes when it's load management or when they shut it down,
(36:30):
you know, late in the college football season, late in
the NFL season, and yet our generation, you and I
were kind of the ones that came up with this
idea of load management or protecting the asset that that
is the player in college in the pros or whatever.
So if anything, we got to be self critical and
understand that, you know, gen X is being critical of
(36:52):
gen Z for an idea for an idea and a
plan that is really a gen X plan. That being
that being said, what does it say What does Joe
Burrow playing despite the very very slight chance of making
the playoffs say about Burrow and and how we view him.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Yeah, I mean, if you I'm sure as we watched
the game last night, we saw the injury history of
Joe Burrow and it's it's something that I've talked about
multiple times over the years that that's just a sad
fact of his career, whether it was in college or
now in the NFL, that he gets banged up a lot.
And I think for Joe, he wants to prove that
he can be out there with the guys and he
understands every year can be magical and special and you
(37:36):
just don't know how it's longer you get to play
this game. It can be taken away from you in
a blink. And so I love that that he decided
that he wanted to be out there. And I think
it also because the Bengals were mathematically still alive that
you put him back out there and say, hey, well
look let's let's see what we can do and see
what we're kind of spark we can give the team.
And even though we started a little slow, he's certainly
you know, sped up and really kind of you know,
(37:56):
looked like the Joe Burrow that you know, could have
been the team that you know, when is it vision,
we'll see. I mean again, we've got only a few
We got enough games left where you could say, yeah,
it would be bizarre, but you know, they play each other,
they've got to play with the opponents. You know, nothing's
going apart for any team right now in the North.
It's a stretch. But it was fun to watch him
be out there and show that, you know, as a leader,
(38:17):
he's gonna if he can be there, he'll be there.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Okay, help me out, I need the absolute neutral former
general manager, former player personnel guy, your opinion on Shudor Sanders.
How did he play in his first week as a starter.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Uh? You know, I you know you got to give
him credit for at least you know, I know, you
make the half back pass and you know you got
to let the running back. You know, scamper's in for
a long touchdown and so he gets the stats to that,
but he still has to get the balls hand up
in the right spot. You know, he made the one
throw down the field, but overall, I still felt like
the game was uber fast for him. I don't feel
like if and I wouldn't have him the start of
(38:57):
this week, I would, I would have then get three
or four starts unless he failed desperately or terribly. I
should say, you know, I would go ahead and get
a sense because really, where the Browns sit as an
organization is who's the number two. It's only going to
be the number two. Is shuduor good enough to be
a number two? Let's figure that out because there's really
no number one on this roster. I don't think it's
either one of these guys based off of what I've
(39:18):
seen from both of them this year. But I would
like to see more should do. But I don't think
it's going to get better, honestly, Doug, I just I'm
not a hater on Shaduur or anything like that. I
just feel like the processing's too fast for him, and
he doesn't process it fast enough, and like what he
was able to do in Colorado where the system was
really quick, we can get the ball out. Now things
are everything's moving so much faster. I think it's hard
for him.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Is that something that improves with experience?
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Usually it can because the games that quote unquote slows
down for young players. But to me, the style of play,
this is why should do Or dropped because a lot
of people worried about the system he played in Colorado
that was so quarterback friendly for him specifically, that can
that translate over so a lot of people like I
don't know why, you know, I thought he was a
first round pick. Well, a lot of scouts went in there,
though you know, I don't know about this office is
(40:05):
what we're going to run the NFL, and so therefore
do I feel like he's got the same tools I
can get him to where he needs to go to
the next level. And a lot of clips that I
don't think so, you know, and obviously the other things
around you to here. He's tried to handle those the
best he can. But I think when you watch it, yes,
you're supposed to give him more time, but to me,
I still think you're going to see a lot of
interceptions over the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Okay, same question with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
I think it's fair, and I think the same thing
is very frustrating for JJ also is that you feel
like he should be able to do it and be
more of a consistent player, you know, one through four quarters,
and not be spurty. And I think that the same
thing though, is no matter what I played JJ the
rest of the year, as long as he can be
on the football field to find out exactly what I have.
But I got to understand that as an organization, I
(40:51):
don't have to be married to him. As much as
that sounds crazy, He's only two years in and this
is really only his first year. You know. The one
mistake you can do is say, well, we'll just give
him one more year too. We can get just figured
out if the Vikings are in a position where they
could draft another quarterback and say, hey, look we're to
make a competition, but we've got to find that guy.
That's what you have to do, because in the end,
we all know that that's really what matters the most,
(41:12):
is who's pulling the trigger on your football team at
that position. If that need, you have to go back
to the well again. Go back to the well. Look
at Chris Ballard. He's done it basically every year as
a coach GM. He's had a different starter out there
and now he may have found the right one at
Daniel Jones for a while.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Mark, you're the best man. I love your analysis, obviously,
I respect all the experience you have and I hope
you had a great Thanksgiving with the family enjoyed this weekend.
We'll talk to you next week on my show. In
the meantime, thanks so much for being a guest in
the Herd.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Thanks for having me on. Like Happy Thanksgiving brother, you too.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Mark Domini joins us on the Doug Gottlieb on seeing
me on the Herd. Doug Gottliefillion for Colin
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks
for listening to the Herd podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Oh What Up America? Doug Gott leave in for Colin.
This is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however
you may be making us fun of your day. Thanks
so much. Colin is on vacation. You are very likely
out and about. Maybe you're doing Black Friday shopping. Maybe
(00:44):
you're driving around somebody who's doing Black Friday shopping. Maybe
you had to work today, Like I got it, ma
there what you gotta do? Welcome in day after Thanksgiving.
Obviously you probably feel like you're like your swine, right.
I mean we ate it like two o'clock yesterday. I'm
(01:06):
still full. I'm still full. But a good day for football.
Packers take down the Lions, Cowboys take down the Chiefs.
Bengals with Joe Burrow without and with Jamar Chase end
up taking down the Baltimore Ravens. So we'll get to
some football. Plus we've got unbelievable rivalry weekend in college
(01:28):
football and the Egg Bowls one people are paying attention
to because they want to know what Lane Kiffin's doing.
All that is going to be discussed over the next
three hours. One of my favorite parts of listening to
Colin and being Colin's friend for years is the when
call them was right, when call them was wrong? Right.
(01:48):
But I think there's a good portion of all of
us that need to go a my bad. Maybe this
is the classic. Cowboys aren't really good. They're just not
as bad as we thought they would be. But the
reality is the Cowboys took down the Chiefs, the Chiefs,
(02:09):
the team. And again I'll be the first one to
tell you I've always just operated under the until further notice,
Chiefs win the AFC West Chiefs get to the AFC
Championship Game because that's what they do with Pat Mahomes
at quarterback, and until prove it otherwise, I was gonna
I'm gonna die on that die on that hill. But
(02:33):
how can you not be impressed by the Dallas Cowboys.
I get it, I'm with you. I love when the
Packers took down the Cowboys a couple of years ago
in the playoffs, Dak throws all those picks in the
first half. I like you had just an enjoyable experience
watching the Cowboys fan meltdown on social media. But since
(02:56):
the bye week they beat the Raiders created the Raiders
aren't particularly good, but we didn't think the Cowboys were good.
And remember this is after getting destroyed by Denver and
getting beaten by the Arizona Cardinals at home. The season
could have gone the way of the Dodo. Right. They
had lost three out of four games, two of them
(03:17):
to non playoff teams in the Carolina Panthers in the
Arizona Arizona Cardinals. And what have they done over the
last five days. They beat the Eagles and they beat
the Chiefs. Granted both at home, but both thought to
be I mean, that's the last you know, Super Bowl
teams and teams that were thought to be playoff teams
this year. So at some point we go, hey, you know,
(03:43):
they're not perfect. They create a lot of noise just
to create noise. They do seem to put themselves in
the same conundrum on a yearly basis, where they wait
until the last second and then always overpay their guy.
But this year is different. Instead of overpaying Michael Parsons,
they traded him and they were committed to stopping the run.
(04:05):
And guess what, it kind of worked. Defense isn't great,
but it wasn't gonna be great with Michael Parsons, and
they handed the franchise to Dak Prescott. And by handed
to him, It's not just the contract extension they gave
him last year. It's not just the fact that he's
the starting quarterback and they put weapons around him, you know,
(04:27):
going out and getting Pickens this year in a trade.
It's that they kept Brian Schottenheimer for the most part
because he's a good offensive coordinator. Dak Prescott likes him,
and they didn't want to have another language in Dak
Prescott's here when this one clearly works for him. And
what has Dak Prescott done three point fifty four two
last weekend, three twenty yesterday, one hundred and twelve yards
(04:49):
with CD Lamb last week it was Pickens that was
the main target. It doesn't matter. Dak Prescott has shown
himself to be a top ten at worst quarterback in
the regular season this year, maybe even top five. And
though it is offense first, the defense does stop the run.
They are better than we thought. The Cowboys. They're not great,
(05:11):
They're not gonna win the Super Bowl, but they're far
from the laughing stock that people want to portray the
mass and as a collective group of Cowboys haters, which
most of us are right, it's weird. It's, for whatever reason,
a very polarizing team. You either are a Cowboys fan
and a constant believer that this is the year, or
(05:34):
you kind of laugh and scoff at the Cowboys, even
if they're not a rival of your team. And I've
said this on my show, the Doug Gottlieb Show follows
this show it has for the last eight years on
Fox Sports Trading on the iHeartRadio app. I've said on
my show that yes, Jerry Jones does things just for effect.
Jerry Jones will say some weird stuff, but by and large,
(05:56):
whether it's Jerry or his son, if you ask football
people that I'll tell you Cowboys have good players. It
doesn't always work, and it hasn't gotten them Super Bowl.
But the Cowboys, if we're questioning Jerry as a GM
in terms of their evaluations, some of their signings. It's
not going to be one hundred percent hit rate. It
(06:17):
isn't for anybody, Chiefs, Eagles, nobody hits one hundred percent
free agents or draft picks. But they're better more often
than they're not when him and his group are making selections.
Here's Jerry talking about the two big wins of the
over a four day stretch.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I have them, really, I don't remember a better plub
I've got two games back to back here at home,
and these guys played inspired.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Kansas City had.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
A nice crowd here, and so it was really important
to us to play the way we did because they
were here to for kindly be.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
There for Kansas City.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
So I just can't tell you the respect I.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Have Kansas City.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Here's Brian Shott, number, the head coach of the cow Boys,
on his quarterback Dak Prescott's performance.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I thought he was incredible. I mean, you know, I
really do. I think, you know, throw an interception on whatever,
the second or third play the game is never how
you want to start. We were actually were hot, and
you know, he tried to beat it with the throw
and the corner did a nice job. He kind of
baited him into it. But I mean, that's that's who
we are as a football team. You know, we go
out there and we turn it over in the first
couple of plays. They go I think two plays and
score a touchdown, and we never panicked. We're not going
(07:24):
to panic this team.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Why would we panic.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
We've got all the confidence in the world and one another,
and then we're going to figure it out and we're
going to make, you know, really good adjustments.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And and look, there is a discussion about the Chiefs
and the ten penalties, but outside of fourth down conversions,
where the Chiefs got three out of three, Cowboys more yards,
more first downs, fewer penalties, nine of sixteen on third down,
whereas the Chiefs were five of thirteen, and they had
(07:54):
the ball longer than the Chiefs, and the Chiefs didn't
turn it over and didn't win the game. Here's Dak
Prescott on his team.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
Having to get these wins against two elite teams. I mean,
the two teams that played in the Super Bowl last year.
Last year is last year. But you're talking about two
organizations that obviously know how to win, and we just
beat them both in two great games. As you said
in four days and just showing the resiliency of this unit,
of this brotherhood on top of everything that we've been through. Yeah,
(08:26):
I don't know if there's been two more impressive wins,
but I can tell you right now that we're not
going to just sit on some high because of that.
We know we've got a big one coming again next week.
And all this really does for us is just give
us more confidence knowing that we can go play with whoever.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's true, and they do have a big one. They
go to Detroit. Detroit just lost the Packers yesterday. You
know that one's right around the corner here on a Thursday,
so you know, both teams have the same amount of
time off, but it's right back at it. Then they
get Vikings at home, Chargers at home, they go to
the Commanders, to the Giants. I mean, even if they
can't beat the Lions, will probably be favorites in three
(09:04):
of those last four games, and the window for the
Cowboys making the playoffs is very much open. To the
point of is this This is not me to saying
the Cowboys are the best team in the NFL. This
is not me saying Dak Prescott's the best quarterback in
the NFL, or Brian Schottenheimer's the best coach in the NFL,
or Jerry Jones the best GM in the NFL. But
(09:26):
when we started the season and they had the hold
out with Micah Parsons and he's laying there on the
training table, you had so many people saying, pay the
guy Cowboys are and it's easy. Cowboys are a clown organization.
They don't pay guys, and then ultimately they overpay and
they're still not commedy good. And then when they were
competitive with Philadelphia week one of the season, you can
(09:48):
feel free to raise your hand. I will as well
where you think I was surprised by it. Then they
get blown out by the Bears. Third week of the season,
you're like, okay, they're addressing the mean. They tie the
Packers and that felt like a massive upset. They lose
to the Panthers, and now they're playing more like the
(10:08):
Cowboys you expected. They win the last three, they're very
much in the playoff hunt, and it's okay to go.
You know, they did a pretty good job considering they
don't have a great defense. They got to rework it
in the offseason. But now they have some draft picks,
and they locked up Dak long term. And if you
like me, were never really a Dak guy. I'm not
(10:30):
a Dak Denier like he stinks, but he has not
been good in the playoffs. He's been outstanding this year.
They've been way better than anybody thinks. And you can
make fun of Jerry Jones's comments and the weird way
in which sometimes he tells a story, but those are
(10:51):
pretty good football guys. DEVI got a pretty good job
of putting a more than decent product on the field,
and the Cowboys are way better than most anyone thought.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Yeah, Jase two, Yeah, remember the Jerry Jones documentary that
came out. I forget the name of it, but it was.
It was a really good watch. It was the Jerry
Jones version of the Cowboys story in the nineties, yep.
And the big takeaway from that for me was that
the biggest point of contention between him and Jimmy Johnson
(11:24):
over the years, and I don't even think they've settled
it to today, was who made the deal for Marshall Walker?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, who gets credit?
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Who gets credit? And they've they've they literally didn't talk,
and they had all these issues I had thought when
he traded Micah at the beginning of the year that
he was kind of feeling his oats from that documentary.
He watched it and he's like, I'm gonna make a deal.
This is all me. I signed off on this, and
this is going to be one of my signature moments
(11:52):
as a football decision maker. And can you say now
that so far that has worked because he got so
much crap when he first did it.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No question, I think he got a lot of crap
because people also thought it was it was his own
fault for not resigning Micah Parsons early. But it was early,
you know, and at some point you get to the ay,
we're not going to be great defensively with him, so
why should we resign him to a gigantic contract which
will harbor our ability to be good, you know, in
(12:29):
the future. But yeah, maybe it was as a reaction
to that doc Maybe the timing was just curious. Maybe
I don't know. You bring up a very very good point,
but all we can go by is this year and
most people thought the Cowboys would kind of be a
joke playing for a high seed, right, and that Brian
Schottenheim would simply have the job for a short period
(12:51):
of time, and then he'd bring in somebody else. And
to this point it's okay to go, Hey, we were wrong.
We're wrong.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Be sure to catch live edition of The Herd weekdays
and noone Easter nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 8 (13:08):
Hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning
on my podcast, Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't
your typical sports pod pushing the same tired narratives down.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Your throat every day.
Speaker 8 (13:20):
Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest
sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at
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Speaker 7 (13:27):
And all the best guests.
Speaker 8 (13:29):
Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with
Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
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Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's The Herd. In for Colin. I'm Doug Gottlieb. Welcome, Welcome,
Welcome in Hope. You had a great Thanksgiving, heelpe, you
just had a wonderful Thanksgiving. This is the first time
I've had all three of my kids in Green Bay
(14:02):
with me and It's pretty cool, all right, just so different.
I've had each of them, have been spend plenty of
time here in the past, but having them all kind
of with me and experiencing being a kid of a
coach and having them buy a practice and having them
with my team fascinating. Hope you got a chance to
catch up with family. Hope you got a chance to
(14:24):
have a good meal and watch them football. We'll talk
about sports for the next two hours. We do have
Sean Merriman up coming this hour lights out well. Jonas
will get his thoughts on what that's wrong with Lamar Jackson.
I'll give my own thoughts on what's wrong with Lamar
Jackson upcoming, but let's talk about the other side of that.
(14:44):
The Bengals took down the Ravens late last night and
we praised Joe Burrow for his play, but more than
anything for just playing right. Here's Joe Burrow on his
(15:04):
playing for the first time since week two.
Speaker 9 (15:06):
It had to knock some rust off there in the
first half, so I expect myself to play better, but
it was great to be back out there. I was,
you know, a lot of emotions running through it.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
At the end of the game.
Speaker 9 (15:17):
So it's just good to be back with the guy.
You know, anytime you can get a big win like this,
it's it's exciting. And guys work really hard for this.
You know, we are where we're at with our record,
but guys work really hard to go out and put
put on good performances on Sunday.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
So when you're able to do that, it feels good.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
It should feel good. It should feel good, and you
feel good about him being rewarded for playing when you
know plenty of people in society would give him an
out for not playing. Ah, you're not gonna make the playoffs.
They can't ever protect You're always getting hurt. Why why
would you even play? And when your coaches you know,
(15:57):
what it says to me is is two things. One,
I mean, Joe Burrow is a guy that's true leadership. Right,
anyone can play when you're in the playoffs or you're
fighting to one game, to be like, who doesn't want
to play? Then? But you make all that money as
(16:17):
a quarterback to lead your team and to play hard
when you don't have to play hard, or to play
when you don't have to play. I'll give you the
sports radio analogy Jase, do you know this to be true?
You know, at some people have told me before, like
morning shows are pretty well compensated. Right in local radio,
(16:43):
it's always been morning and afternoon drive. And they'll tell
you like a morning show isn't You're not getting paid
necessarily for talking on the radio. You're getting paid to
show up every day when people want to sleep in,
but on at six you got to be there, you know,
no later than five, five fifteen. And that means you
(17:03):
got to lock in and get up at four and
be alert and aware and awake and after it. They
don't pay to do the show, They pay to get
up well. The same as true at quarterback. You're not
just getting paid to throw touchdown passes at the end
of games. You're getting paid for everything, every practice, every game,
anytime you're available. That's what true leadership is. And it's weird,
(17:28):
like we've gotten to this place to where Joe Burrow
playing when he's healthy enough to play is somehow heroic
when it should be what he's supposed to do. He
even sounded like he felt that way, didn't he And
this is more of an us problem than a him problem.
It's like that Chris rock Line. Remember Chris rock This
(17:51):
is like four or five comedy specials ago when he
talked about you know guys bragging about taking care of that.
I take care of my kids. Well, that's what you're
supposed to do. I play. I'm playing this weekend. Well
that's what you're supposed to do if you're Joe Burrow.
The other part to it is that it shows you
(18:15):
that he wants Zach Taylor to be his head coach.
That's what shows me, because if you don't want that
guy to be your head coach, you don't play. And
the likelihood of them losing and have a terrible record
is greater, and the boors the record, the more likely
they're going to replace the coach. It's not a Jimmy Chitwood,
but it's close to, and for people who don't know
(18:37):
the Jimmy Chitwood reference, it goes back to the movie Hoosiers.
Gene Hackman's character is under pressure. He's a new coach,
he's from outside of this small town. The townspeople want
to get rid of him. They've already voted to get
rid of him, and that's when the star player, who
had not yet been playing, comes in and says it's
time that I start playing ball. Everybody cheers, and he says, hey,
(19:00):
one more thing, coach goes, I go, coach days I play.
That's the Jimmy Chipwood. And when you're the best player
in the highest paid player. When he's playing, and he
doesn't necessarily have to, he wants to, it shows he
wants Zach Taylors a head coach. One Zach Taylors head coach.
(19:21):
So I mean, I think I think both of those
things are absolutely true. That he is one. I mean,
that's a the football player. Football players play football. It's
kind of a matter of fact to it. And he was.
And I'll give you one more thing than it does.
You know, there's there's lots to talk about us. We
make the MVP a quarterback award, will make the Heisman
(19:43):
Trophy a quarterback award, when reality of it is nothing
says that quarterback is the most important position in the league.
Like Joe Burrow who didn't play great, but simply his presence,
(20:03):
his demeanor, his abilities. Jamar Chase has been great. Jamar
Chase is great. I think Jamar Chase is the best
wide receieve in the league. And I don't know if
there's a close second. But Jamar Chase can be great
and they can still not win. Joe Burrow can be
good upgrade over older Joe Flacco and they can still win.
(20:30):
Can't say that Jamar Chase quarterback just a more impactful,
more powerful And I'm not telling you anything they didn't know,
but we do at some point get in the denial
phase of well, we're overvaluing quarterbacks. No we're not. It
literally is that important. And in order to be a
leader as a quarterback, these are the things that some
people don't get. To be a leader, you have to
(20:51):
play in that game to be a real leader. You know.
That's the thing with I'll give you one Newton, right
Cam Newton famously in the Super Bowl ball was on
the on the ground, they're they're down six, and he
doesn't dive on it. And after the game he was
(21:13):
he was eviscerated by the press, rightfully so, because he said,
I can't I can't go get that ball. I gotta
worry about my legs, my knees. In other words, his legs,
his knees are more important than his team and the
Super Bowl. Same thing goes for for Cam Newton what
(21:38):
he said recently, which is you know on ESPN. On
ESPN he said, or maybe it was on a was
on a podcast Chase too, where he said personal success
is more important because you make more money based upon os. Yeah,
hey it. Personal success is more important than than team's
success because that's how you get paid. That's how everyone
(22:01):
knows you're not really a leader when you're about yourself
more than everybody else and more than winning. Everybody sees
through that. Real leadership, the real stuff is what Joe
Burrow's doing. Is what Joe Burrow's doing. You know, I've
(22:24):
said this honestly about about Mike Trout, like in many
ways more impressed over the years for him going to
work with the Angels when they had no hope of
the playoffs. Then you would have Mookie Betts who knows
he's gonna be in the playoffs every year. That's way easier.
Here's Cam Newton, like a week and a half ago
on ESPN.
Speaker 10 (22:48):
Would you rather being a spot where you can individually achieve,
have success, have statistics and lose or would you want
to be someone that contributes to a team that can win.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
A Super Bowl?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And I'm glad you asked that.
Speaker 11 (23:01):
When you're talking about individual play, this is how I
this is how I take care of my family.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Team success don't take care of my family. So if
I'm thinking about it from a personal standpoint, of course,
we want the best of both worlds.
Speaker 11 (23:15):
But if you're asking me, what gives you extensions, what
gives you top tier money, what gives you certain things,
there's some more players that have rings, championships and things.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
That are struggling rather than so quote unquote.
Speaker 11 (23:30):
Bus that has had money and they're doing right by
their money.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, no, that's not true. That's actually the opposite of
what the truth is. But it also shows that Cam
Newton is about Cam Newton, which again you're allowed to be.
It just doesn't make you a leader of my team
or most teams or quarterback. And I'm not making Joe
Burrow owed to be a hero. I think that's the
crazy thing about our society is we've gotten into this
(23:58):
whole idea of hey, you only have to play when
the playoffs are on the line, Like why, huh? Doesn't
work that way? Not the way it works in radio.
We don't pay it to do the radio. I pay
(24:18):
to show up on time. Every day. In being a quarterback,
you can't just lead when it's convenient for you to lead.
And if you're about yourself, that's not leadership. That's not leadership.
Every guy hits that moment you feel it less drive,
less fire. I don't accept it. I fight back with
(24:42):
M drive built on real science, use Collins exclusive Black
Friday Code heard thirty five for thirty five percent off
at mdrive dot com. Mdrivefromend dot com. Jay stew I
told you last week earlier this week again, I get
my I've been try traveling so much as you know,
like I'm I know it's Friday only because yesterday was
(25:04):
Thanksgiving which is on Thursday. But you love to make
fun of gen Z. I kind of think this is
a gen X thing, right, because our generation constantly makes
fun of gen Z for only working when they want
to work. But our generation came up with many of
(25:25):
these ideas, especially in sports, of load management, to guys
missing games because they weren't going to play for a
championship or weren't going to play for the playoffs. And
you know, we're hypocrites for now champion a guy for
doing something that we called him stupid for doing in
our own right.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
In my take on gen Z has everything to do
with you and me, we as parents, our generation as
parents has made gen Z into the most entitled generation
of all time, the generation that doesn't want to stay
in one job, that seems to think that that work
needs to be fun and you need to make friends
(26:03):
or else it's not a job. All these things are true,
but you're right, they're our fault. And the current system
in place right now for sports was created by coaches
of our generation. Whether so the whole load management thing.
That's why this is an interesting, like human experiment, especially
on how sports are covered, because you know this week
(26:25):
that there were people who have been crying about load
management for many years who also said, why are the
Bengals playing Joe Burrow? Why put them in that place?
And there's a huge contradiction there.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Totally agree, Totally agree, And it's the weirdest thing. It's
the it's literally the same people, the same people.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon East. They're not a Empacific Doug Gall.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Even for Colin. It's the Herd. You're on Fox Sports
Trade on the iHeartRadio app, broadcasting from Green Bay, Wisconsin. Most,
mostly in the Midwest, know that it's coming. We got
a little dust in the other day, but it's it's coming.
It's coming tomorrow, first first snowstorm of the season. Mark
(27:15):
Dominic doesn't have these problems, right, I mean, he he
picked an organization in Tampa. He's a Florida guy, Florida, California.
People like, I don't know what you're talking about. How
you talking about former gentle manager of the tamp Bay Buccaneers.
Of course, spent his entire professional life in the National
Football League and he joins us now in the herd
on Fox Sports Radio. How were we so wrong about
(27:39):
the Cowboys? Mark?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, you know, they've just been so inconsistent. It's been
hard to understand what team we're going to see each week.
And yesterday we saw that the offense continues to shine
under Brian Schottenheimer and what Dak Prescott was able to do,
and it certainly George Dickens made a lot of great plays,
so along with Ferguson and so the Cowboys have found
(28:01):
a way to be, you know, just frustratingly inconsistent, but
yet still have a shot and a path to the
postseason somehow.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Okay, what about the Chiefs. You know, it's like you
go back about a month ago, You're like, all right,
here they come and here they sit. You know, it's
it's I mean, I look, my faith remains in Andy
Reid and Pat Mahomes, but heck dayed loss coming out
of a bye, which you know does have more in
(28:30):
Kansasity than in Philadelphia, but rarely happens. And you look,
the Broncos and Bills are good teams. The culture good teams.
So some of its schedule, but some of it is
they're just what's missing there?
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Well, I think two things. I think Number one, you know,
we saw sadly Josh Simmons looks like he might be
done for the year. You know, John Taylor's they're going
with their second or third and fourth offensive tackles. And
in Kansas City, we've seen it over and over again.
When that offensive line starts to get to play, they
can't win. And that's where they sit right now, is
they just can't keep as much as Patrick was, you know,
(29:06):
throwing the ball well and obviously it touched down yesterday.
That I'm that offensive lines in shambles right now. And
that's that's the demise of the Chiefs and why they
won't make the postseason. Even with a couple of teams,
I think they can win. The other part of the
Chiefs that you see when you watch them play is
they're not fast. Defensively, they're strong, they're powerful, but they're
not fast. And to me that shows up as well.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
You know what that reminds me of. It reminds me
of the end of the Patriots run, right, I mean
when when the downfall of the Patriots. Obviously when Brady left,
they didn't have a quarterback, but even prior to that,
people like yourself, NFL people all said that the Patriots
they just weren't fast, they weren't flying around anymore. How
(29:49):
hard is that to fix? Can you fix that in
one offseason?
Speaker 4 (29:53):
I think you can. I mean again, you're going to
you know, decide what you want to do for Ancy,
but the draft is going to be a piece where
you can absolutely add some speed and get to you know,
maybe a linebacker. They need a speed rush edge is
what they really need to need. Somebody that can come
off the edge. I can just you know, win the fastball,
and that's what they don't have. To me consistently at all.
(30:13):
And so I think you're gonna have to look to
the draft, you know, and then say first or second round.
That's where I think the Chiefs have to pinpoint somebody
that can get the edge and can win with a
fastball and hopefully develop an other rush move. The kids
seems can be in a weird spot. I mean, I
don't again, I don't think they're going to make the
postseason just because I don't. I think Jacksonville has too
many wins that are still on the board Buffalo can
(30:35):
you know, and so somebody's going to win you know,
the North somehow. But I just don't think kids that
you can put enough w's on the board now to
get to the postseason. So they'll be picking you know,
top twenty, which they haven't done in a long long time.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Okay, we go from met Lafleur a couple of weeks ago.
I go to the Eagles game and super super conservative
and you and I have talked about it on my
show where I'm like, well, yeah, you lose Tucker to
you know, Tucker Craft, and you lose your left tackle
and the Eagles obviously have an unbelievable pass rush as
we saw against the Lions, and so maybe that's the
(31:08):
reason they were so concerned. You go from that to
what we saw from the Floor over the past two weeks,
especially yesterday, What why has his play calling been so different?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
In your opinion, he's been more aggressive. I think he's
kind of said, hey, look it is what it is
we're going to and I think he feels Jordan Love
when Jordan's kind of in the zone. I think he
calls the game based off out Jordan's playing And yesterday
Jordan was making throws and you know, you got to
give La Floor a ton of credit that fourth down
call to go to throw the ball up to Wix
and Wix makes the catch to you know, basically hid
(31:39):
the game. Kill the clock. That's a huge decision where
they're sitting on the field knowing you can bax them
up all the way to probably the top, you know,
inside the ten and make them drive the link of
the field. Instead, he says, I'm going to win the
game right here, and Jordan Love makes suffrow. But I
think the Floor is feeding off of where Jordan Love's
confidence is, and you're seeing him be more aggressive with
the play call because of it.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Got Laiben for Collins to hurt. Fox Sports Radio, iHeart
Radio app. You and I have also discussed that as
a as a play caller, Dan Campbell feels like he
calls plays, but he's not an offensive coordinator. Right, this
is a play here, at play there, it's not as smooth,
doesn't have the same rhythm. What did you think of yesterday?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. Like, you know,
it's you know, the one thing about Jared Goffin and
maybe the entire offense is having you know, it's interesting
you think about it from the defensive standpoint. For an
offensive standpoint, right, the offensive coordinators like three and out
didn't work out, We'll just punt. The defensive coordinator sits
there and goes, hey, three and and it didn't work.
It's well, they just scored a touchdown. It's just a
(32:40):
completely different way to look for the game, right. I
think if you think of it home, you're like, yeah,
I've never thought of it that way, like an offensive
quarteror like if it doesn't work out, he just pumped
the ball and try again. It doesn't work out. On defense,
you're in trouble. And so that's what makes it hard.
And I also think to your point, Doug's like, you
want to find the rhythm with your quarterback where you're feeling,
like we just talked about with the floor, feeling the
emotions of game, or feeling the offensive guy that he
(33:01):
spends the entire time on. You know that this is
what I feel like is the right direction. Detroit misses
that a little bit. Certainly, Ben Johnson's done a great
job in Chicago put the Bears where they are, but
this is the coordinator that they desperately lost and desperately miss.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Okay, let's go to the night gap. Let's start of
the negative. What's wrong with Lamar Jackson?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, I just I feel like he's just missing grows
and I know that we're all watching it unfold, but
just the lack of like the locked in or the
decision making, and he just looked like he was, you know,
rushing himself and then quickly explicting the fallout and trying
to make him play, and just it's affected his accuracy.
And I don't think it was the weather at all.
(33:45):
This has been something we see with Lamar. It's not
processing very well for him, and therefore you know he's
looking at parent, and then his accuracy's really off, almost
back to like his rookie campaign kind of a feeling
where like, what's going on with this guy? So I
don't have a great answer for why Lamar Jackson feels
like he's regressed based off what he's been able to
do in the past, but I would say that the
(34:07):
main thing is that I did not feel like he's
rushing as you're watching on the field, like he's like
someone's in this year saying you got to make a decision,
hurry up, make a decision. And because of that, I
think he's throwing the ball, you know, early, and it's
throwing off his accuracy.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I guess my question is, you know, Greg Roman, they
thought they had hit a ceiling with Greg Roman's offense,
and my thought was, like he won MVP with that offense.
I don't I don't think that's what it was. But
you know, you're bringing Monk in and it's a passing
based offense. He still runs, but it's more, Hey, now
(34:40):
he's been the league. Now he's a better Now he's
a better passer, not just a thrower. And I again,
and their defense isn't you know when they were when
they were failing in the playoffs. Previously, the defense was
awesome and the offense, you know, was allowed to to
just run the football and to be conservative occasionally take
a shot. Is it too much for him to carry
the team as a passer.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
It feels like it right now, right I mean, Mike
McDonald obtis is a great defensive coardter that has done
a great job as the head coach down Seattle and
getting them in position of the postseason, and they missed
that he was, you know, he's brilliantly smart, and so
they missed that defensive side of the ball where maybe
the town's not to the level, and seeing the Ravens before,
but they were technically on top of everything offensively. The
frustrating thing for me when I watched the Ravens, and
(35:22):
I'm sure Ravens says they could have run the ball
last night like they were running the ball perfectly fine,
they just couldn't stick with it. But you know, if
they can just find a way to get back to
Derrick Henry and giving him the ball twenty plus times
a game, I think that even if they fall behind
ten or twelve or thirteen points, I think you still
want to focus on Derrick Henry getting the ball, because that,
to me is your ticket to finding a way to
(35:44):
still win the North, which again is wide open and
even the Bengals, as hard as it's to imagine, and
so late, you're only a few games out now, you know,
and I know we don't have a lot of games left,
but you know it might be nine and eight or
eight and nine could win that division, which before the
season started, Doug, I would have never dreamt that with
those three teams Pittsburgh obviously, Baltimore and Cincinnati, I would
(36:05):
have never dreamt it would have been that kind of
an outcome of where the seasons ended up.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Right now, I'm obviously as a coach, I'm even a
football fan. You love what Joe Burrows said. And here's
here's kind of my takeaway. Mark, just stick with me.
Let me kind of explain it. Were so critical of
athletes when it's load management or when they shut it down,
(36:30):
you know, late in the college football season, late in
the NFL season, and yet our generation, you and I
were kind of the ones that came up with this
idea of load management or protecting the asset that that
is the player in college in the pros or whatever.
So if anything, we got to be self critical and
understand that, you know, gen X is being critical of
(36:52):
gen Z for an idea for an idea and a
plan that is really a gen X plan. That being
that being said, what does it say What does Joe
Burrow playing despite the very very slight chance of making
the playoffs say about Burrow and and how we view him.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Yeah, I mean, if you I'm sure as we watched
the game last night, we saw the injury history of
Joe Burrow and it's it's something that I've talked about
multiple times over the years that that's just a sad
fact of his career, whether it was in college or
now in the NFL, that he gets banged up a lot.
And I think for Joe, he wants to prove that
he can be out there with the guys and he
understands every year can be magical and special and you
(37:36):
just don't know how it's longer you get to play
this game. It can be taken away from you in
a blink. And so I love that that he decided
that he wanted to be out there. And I think
it also because the Bengals were mathematically still alive that
you put him back out there and say, hey, well
look let's let's see what we can do and see
what we're kind of spark we can give the team.
And even though we started a little slow, he's certainly
you know, sped up and really kind of you know,
(37:56):
looked like the Joe Burrow that you know, could have
been the team that you know, when is it vision,
we'll see. I mean again, we've got only a few
We got enough games left where you could say, yeah,
it would be bizarre, but you know, they play each other,
they've got to play with the opponents. You know, nothing's
going apart for any team right now in the North.
It's a stretch. But it was fun to watch him
be out there and show that, you know, as a leader,
(38:17):
he's gonna if he can be there, he'll be there.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Okay, help me out, I need the absolute neutral former
general manager, former player personnel guy, your opinion on Shudor Sanders.
How did he play in his first week as a starter.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Uh? You know, I you know you got to give
him credit for at least you know, I know, you
make the half back pass and you know you got
to let the running back. You know, scamper's in for
a long touchdown and so he gets the stats to that,
but he still has to get the balls hand up
in the right spot. You know, he made the one
throw down the field, but overall, I still felt like
the game was uber fast for him. I don't feel
like if and I wouldn't have him the start of
(38:57):
this week, I would, I would have then get three
or four starts unless he failed desperately or terribly. I
should say, you know, I would go ahead and get
a sense because really, where the Browns sit as an
organization is who's the number two. It's only going to
be the number two. Is shuduor good enough to be
a number two? Let's figure that out because there's really
no number one on this roster. I don't think it's
either one of these guys based off of what I've
(39:18):
seen from both of them this year. But I would
like to see more should do. But I don't think
it's going to get better, honestly, Doug, I just I'm
not a hater on Shaduur or anything like that. I
just feel like the processing's too fast for him, and
he doesn't process it fast enough, and like what he
was able to do in Colorado where the system was
really quick, we can get the ball out. Now things
are everything's moving so much faster. I think it's hard
for him.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Is that something that improves with experience?
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Usually it can because the games that quote unquote slows
down for young players. But to me, the style of play,
this is why should do Or dropped because a lot
of people worried about the system he played in Colorado
that was so quarterback friendly for him specifically, that can
that translate over so a lot of people like I
don't know why, you know, I thought he was a
first round pick. Well, a lot of scouts went in there,
though you know, I don't know about this office is
(40:05):
what we're going to run the NFL, and so therefore
do I feel like he's got the same tools I
can get him to where he needs to go to
the next level. And a lot of clips that I
don't think so, you know, and obviously the other things
around you to here. He's tried to handle those the
best he can. But I think when you watch it, yes,
you're supposed to give him more time, but to me,
I still think you're going to see a lot of
interceptions over the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Okay, same question with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
I think it's fair, and I think the same thing
is very frustrating for JJ also is that you feel
like he should be able to do it and be
more of a consistent player, you know, one through four quarters,
and not be spurty. And I think that the same
thing though, is no matter what I played JJ the
rest of the year, as long as he can be
on the football field to find out exactly what I have.
But I got to understand that as an organization, I
(40:51):
don't have to be married to him. As much as
that sounds crazy, He's only two years in and this
is really only his first year. You know. The one
mistake you can do is say, well, we'll just give
him one more year too. We can get just figured
out if the Vikings are in a position where they
could draft another quarterback and say, hey, look we're to
make a competition, but we've got to find that guy.
That's what you have to do, because in the end,
we all know that that's really what matters the most,
(41:12):
is who's pulling the trigger on your football team at
that position. If that need, you have to go back
to the well again. Go back to the well. Look
at Chris Ballard. He's done it basically every year as
a coach GM. He's had a different starter out there
and now he may have found the right one at
Daniel Jones for a while.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Mark, you're the best man. I love your analysis, obviously,
I respect all the experience you have and I hope
you had a great Thanksgiving with the family enjoyed this weekend.
We'll talk to you next week on my show. In
the meantime, thanks so much for being a guest in
the Herd.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Thanks for having me on. Like Happy Thanksgiving brother, you too.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Mark Domini joins us on the Doug Gottlieb on seeing
me on the Herd. Doug Gottliefillion for Colin
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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