January 13, 2026 • 36 mins
BREAKING NEWS – After a crushing loss to the Texans in the Wild Card Round of the NFL playoffs, head coach Mike Tomlin and the Steelers have agreed to mutually part ways. Colin talks with NFL reporter Robert Mays about the reason Tomlin and the Steelers split and where Tomlin could end up next season.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Here we go. It is a Tuesday. We are live.
We're in Chicago. It's the Herd.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Wherever you may be, however you may be watching or listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
The truth.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Once the playoffs arrived always reveals itself. You can't trust
the Jacksonville Jaguars and the Pittsburgh Steelers our sears department store.
Three point one yards per play, lowest yards per play
in the last nine years in the playoffs, and they
(01:12):
got turnovers.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
They get three times.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Houston gave him opportunities, thirteen total first downs, aful on
third down.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Couldn't run the ball again.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
If the Steelers were just competent offensively, and I know
the Texans are good, but you had a ballgame. Pittsburgh's
longest drive in the second half twenty three yards. So
they're not going to fire Mike Tomlin. Aaron's of course
going to always defend him. They have no young quarterback
for the future.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
It's one of.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
The oldest rosters in the league. The money's mostly spent
on defense. Pittsburgh is stuck in a mediocrity loop and
they're never terrible, but exceedingly average. And they've become so
consumed with stability, loyalty. Hey, at least we're not Cleveland. Yeah,
(02:04):
but either are the Chiefs. The Rams are the Niners,
and they take swings. I mean a prime example of
the Steelers they go get DK Metcalf and yet the
Steelers are last in the NFL with Aaron Rodgers in
air yards per attempt. So they buy a sports car
and don't know how to drive it. And it's not
just about not winning a playoff game for nine years.
(02:25):
I went and looked at Mike Tomlin's last thirteen playoff games.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
There's six blowout losses.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
In fact, in their last seven playoff games, they have
not led for a single snap in the second half
in any of them. The games aren't that competitive. You
thought last night was competitive. Start of the fourth you
knew who the better team was. So there's an old
saying about you know, you can't save your way to
(02:51):
being wealthy just being content. And that's how I feel
about the Steelers. You know they want to be content,
which to me just feels like a weighted blanket.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I just don't get it. There.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
You got to take swings, increase risk. We're going into
another season Aaron'll take off. They won't have any urgency
at quarterback. And it's actually the easy way out in
life to not offend anybody and be loyal to all
your employees. That is the easy way out in life.
It's hard to fire people. And I'm not insisting that
(03:28):
you should fire Tom. It's not what I'm saying. He
get a TV job or another job in one second.
He's more than competent. Stop spending money on defense. Okay,
last night. It's like I know in Pittsburgh and I
get it. It's an old school, proud town that putting
fries and a sandwich is cool. But the rest of
(03:49):
the country took the fries, moved him on a plate,
put parmesan cheese and truffle salt on them.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
That's what the rest of us do.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's time to spend money on offense. It's time to
today work on getting your next star quarterback, free agency, college,
whatever you gotta do. But I just I feel like,
I mean, I suggested, remember this couple of years ago.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Oh outr.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I was mocked when I suggested TJ. Watt, still in
his prime before the injuries mount move.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Him for two first round picks.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Pittsburgh's like, nah, we're gonna make him the highest paid
non quarterback in the league.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
A few more injuries. TJ.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Watt now aller and five in playoff games. You're grabbing
on to the wrong stuff, spending way too much money
on defense every I mean again, you can be loyal
to your best employees, right. I'm not asking for anybody
to be fired here. It's not my thing. I was
(04:52):
surprised that John Harbaugh was Harbaugh and Tomlin you can argue,
you know, kind of the same resume. But it's like
Baltimore is flexible, understands offense, spends on offense, drafts and develops.
They're trying new stuff and new coordinators, new things. I
(05:12):
never feel like Baltimore's outdated. They just couldn't beat Mahomes
or Josh Allen. So Aaron Rodgers after the game asked
about his future as a Steeler.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
I'm not going to make any emotional decisions. Disappointed, you know, obviously,
I'm such a fun.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Year league game.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You wanted to be here.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I'm not going to talk about.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
That, Aaron Hunt, do you approach just what you decide
to do next?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
They just get away and then then have the right conversations.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Okay, So Aaron's going to disappear for a while. He
did that in his prime. He's certainly going to do
it now.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
It's his life.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Hall of Famer, first ballot, smart guy, he's got a
big broad life. You're going to disappear, and Mike Tomlin's
not getting fired, and they're gonna downplay they've got any concern.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
About quarterback issues.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
But they will continue to be a team that is
not a viable Super Bowl organization.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
They won't be now now, Aaron, and.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I guess to his credit, he was pretty feisty on
the bench last night. He was obviously not happy. He
defended Mike Tomlin after.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I want you to listen to this.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Mike Tz had more success and damn near anybody in
the league. You know, from for the last nineteen twenty
years and more than that that when you have the
right guy and the culture is right, you don't think
about making a change. But there's a lot of pressure
that comes from the outside, and obviously that sways decisions
(06:48):
from time to time. But it's not how I would
do things, and not how the league used to be.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Okay, let me stop right there. It's not what the
league used to be.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
The NFL's now smarter, shrewder, and more offensive. The league
isn't what it used to be, but the Steelers are.
They spend all their money on defense, so you know
what the league is now. It's not what it was
when Tomlin took over the Steelers. We're just a good
defense in a run game, got you to a Super
Bowl and won it. Now it's about offensive coaches, it's
(07:22):
about quarterbacks and passing games.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It's about spending your money.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
At left tackle, quarterback, two weapons, maybe even a center,
not on a second pass rusher. So that mindset that
Aaron just voiced is precisely why the Steelers steel outdated.
The last nine Super Bowl champs nine for nine have
top ten offenses. The Steelers once again this year twenty
sixth on offense. For a city that worships bridges, Pittsburgh
(07:54):
needs to cross one. It's time to change the way
you're doing business.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Sears J. C. Penny were cool.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Now we all shop online like you got to stop
the money on the other side. So the NFL is richer.
General managers are younger and very aggressive, Howie roseman less
need go look around now. The best gms are young
and they're taking big risks, and they're very busy at
(08:25):
the trade deadline. I mean, I'll give you credit for
DK metcalf and at the same time George Pickens left.
And I'm not sure who's already better this year. It
was it was Pickens. So and I don't buy into
well the league was better years ago.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
It's safer now, it's smarter now. The gms are less
risk averse. So you know, I'm just I'm looking at
Aaron Rodgers against playoff teams this season, and I thought
Aaron played very, very well.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I defended Aaron. Everybody is my witness the entire year.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
But judge a team, not how you were against the
Bengals without Joe Burrow or the cruddy Browns and the
AFC this year was weaker.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
This year, even Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Against playoff teams had a passer rating of seventy was
one in five. That's with Aaron, who I thought played
really well most of the year.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I really did.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Based on what I saw as last year in Green
Band with the Jets, I thought Aaron played very well
except against the good teams. And you could watch Aaron's
body language on the first drive last night. He got
upset with a teammate. He was upset on the bench
last night, and I said, Steelers are offensive quicksand Aaron
just stepped into it, and to his credit, he elevated
(09:44):
this team. Aaron deserves a lot of credit for forty
two years old. I thought he played really well. They
don't have a number two receiver, DK Metcalf got himself
in trouble, had to miss two big games.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Run game.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I like Jalen Warren. The old line was better than
I thought. Some of that goes to credit Arthur Smith
and Aaron Rodgers. But the last Dine Super Bowl champs
nine for nine, top ten offenses. The world has pivoted.
It's pivoted, and that city that worships bridges. They are
just struggling to cross it to the other side. All right,
(10:18):
J Matt, congratulations you hit your first bet of the weekend.
I know you were freaking out last night. You know
It's funny the whole second half. I'm like, the Texans
are the better team. The Texans are going to win
this game. But Pittsburgh did this all year long. They
just sort of hung around in games where they couldn't
generate much offense. So it was at least, you know,
fourth quarter was entertaining for a while.
Speaker 6 (10:38):
Happy to get aside. Right, the Texas defense took over.
I just don't know what they're going to have going
into New England without Nico Collins. That concussion look brutal.
I can't imagine a scenario where he plays. The defense
is awesome, but Colin that offense. What has happened to CJ.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Shroud?
Speaker 6 (10:54):
I mean, that guy has regressed since his rookie year.
I'm not seeing it.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Well.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Thank God for Woody Marx and Christian Kirk. Christidon Kirk.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Did you know Christian Kirk was the leading receiver on
Wild Card Weekend? Most yards of any receiver or tight
end was Christian It.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Was a Texas A and m Kid and that I think
he went to like an Arizona bounced around. He actually
works in Houston. Yeah, yeah, no, that's right, Jacksonville. He
works in Houston. Had a great night for him.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is
taking over YouTube and you can be a part of it.
Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit
that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch
(11:41):
all the videos from your favorite shows, Tube Pros and
a Cup of Joe, Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Doug Gottlieb
Cavino and Rich The Odd Couple with Rob Parker and
Kelvin Washington, The Jason Smith Show with Mike Harmon, and
The Ben Maller Show. Fox Sports Radio on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And it's just being reported. Mike Tomlin has officially stepped
down after a historic nineteen season run. According to Adam
Schefter and Jeremy Fowler, the Steelers will be looking for
their first coach, only their fourth coach since the late sixties,
Kevin Stefanski, howe sweet?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Would that be? The Browns let him go?
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Two time NFL Coach of the Year, Pittsburgh picks him up,
That's where I would go. And I'll be honest with you,
I'm not so sure the front office I'm in love
with either.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I think it's the right move. People.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Mike the fable on our show yesterday, saying he knew
Tomlin wouldn't be fired, but he can see him stepping down.
And I don't know how those things get negotiated behind
the scenes, but you know, when you know fans are channing,
you know, fire Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
It's time.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I think Mike will pick up a network job. I
mean I would be shocked if he was not on
the phone this morning with his agent. Uh he'll make Uh,
don't don't. I could give you the networks in order
of where he's gonna go. I'm not gonna do that
at this point, but yeah, Mike, it's time, like they
(13:16):
And by the way, I think it's not just Tomlin.
I think Mike's going to take a year off. But
because I don't think there's a lot of great jobs,
I would not be shocked. The winner in This is
the New York Giants.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now they've got Harbaugh, Stefanski and Mike Tomlin. Suddenly it
went from a lean coaching market to the best in
a long time. So stop it, all the coordinators. If
you can hire Tomlin, Harbar or Kevin Stefanski, you hire
him like a Vrabel, like a Harball, like a Sean Payton.
Stop messing around. So also, uh, Tomlin is a culture guy.
(13:56):
He's not a scheme guy. He's very much like Harball
and Vray. And so my take is what the Giants need.
I mean, they could hire Stefanski. I think it'd be
a good coach. The Giants need a culture guy. They're
a mess. Well that's what John Harbaugh is, That's what
Mike Tomlin is. In fact, I'm just thinking, in the
(14:17):
recesses of my mind, did Tomlin say, listen, I saw
Jackson dark play. Harbaugh thinks he's got that job. I'm
gonna go steal that New York Giant job from John Harbaugh.
These guys are all alphas, all competitive, but I think
it's time. I think Pittsburgh needs a reset as an organization.
(14:38):
It's easy to just blame Mike Tomlin, but the GM
stepped down and they brought somebody that had been in
house a long time. I think they need a young,
high risk, high reward GM. I think they need to
go get an offensive coach. If I was the Steelers,
(14:58):
I would offer the job today to Kevin Stefanski. That's
what I would do. Go get an offensive coach. And
if I was Kevin Stefanski, I'd call Aaron and say,
thank you so much, I'm gonna go find my next guy.
I think a lot of these coaches Aaron Glenn didn't.
I don't think they want to inherit. They don't want
(15:19):
to inherit Aaron Rodgers at forty two. So NFL head
coaching vacancies are now up to nine, including three of
the four teams in the AFC North. So the Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Giants, Titans, Falcons, Cardinals, Raiders,
(15:39):
Dolphins have openings. Ravens is the best job they have.
Lamar good roster. I don't know if there's a clear too.
Steelers Giants have some things I like about both. Again,
when I said a couple of years ago, I'd moved
(15:59):
TJ Wat and get more picks, that was outrageous. TJ's
zero for five in the playoffs. How outrageous is it? Yeah,
there's a bunch of bad jobs, and then there's the
Ravens job. I think you'd probably say Giants Steelers. I
like some stuff on the offensive side, plus Abdul Carter
(16:20):
for the Giants.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
And I like the.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
I mean, if Steelers have a Packers feel like, you know,
there's not a lot of chaos in the building, but
I think they got to take some swings upstairs and
on the sidelines.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a em Pacific Well.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
He's an NFL writer for The Athletic and the host
of the Athletic Football Show. Robert Mays is sensational, previously
at Grantlin and The Ringer, and he is now joining
us on the news that Mike Tomlin has decided to go.
I think there's needs to be a house cleaning inside
the organization. They spend too much money on defense. I
think it's easy to blame Tomlin, who's an elite motivator.
(17:00):
He'll be a great TV analyst, or he'll get the
Giants job. I mean, it's that new York Giants. Don't
you know the winner in this, Robert, The winner is
the Giants. They got a hard Voss, Tafanski and Tomlin.
That's pretty meaty. The other winner to me is Brian
Dable because now we have nine openings and I thought
he was on the edge of getting a job. But
with nine, I think Brian Dabole winning a playoff game
(17:23):
with Daniel Jones now gets a head coaching job.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Let's start with Tomlin. Though you did a show.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Right after the game last night and after the loss,
Let's start with what your initial reaction was on Tomlin.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
But it was time. I think it was time for
both sides.
Speaker 7 (17:38):
And I never thought that the Steelers would fire Mike Tomlin,
and they didn't. I think he was going to be
a conversation, and I feel like we were in a
place with both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it
was mutually beneficial for them to go their separate ways.
This had run out of road on so many different fronts,
so we could talk about this. But the Steelers are
poised to go from being one of the oldest teams
in the league to kind of having a little bit
(17:59):
of a youth movement. They have a ton of picks
this year. They can move on from guys like TJ.
Watt and Cam Hayward over the next couple of years.
It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild, and
I feel like somebody else coming in with a new
vision to kind of shepherd that version of the organization
that made sense for them and for Tomlin. You have
no pathway to a quarterback right now if you're the
(18:19):
Steelers head coach. I think him either taking a year
away the same way Sean Payton did, or just moving
to a different situation where the team is positioned differently
for both parties. I felt like this was the right
time to say goodbye, and so I'm not shocked or
surprised to see this.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Who do you think is the leading candidate for that job.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
It's a great question because I heard you say earlier
that you could see them going with an offensive coach,
and I would completely understand that if they wanted to
go with a guy like Kevin Stefanski. I do think
that's pretty far removed from what the Tomlin row was,
and I think that's appealing in some ways.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
I get that.
Speaker 7 (18:53):
I also think this is an organization that has not
been afraid to do things that are unconventional. When they
hired Mike Tomlin, he was a thirty five year old
kind of anonymous assistant that they thought was the right
guy for the job, and so I wouldn't be surprised
if all the options were on the table. I think
a lot of organizations do want to do something that's
(19:14):
distinct from what just came before it. I don't know
if the Steelers are necessarily going to jump at that.
I feel like there are gonna be a lot of
different kinds of candidates that they consider for this sort
of job, kind of in the same way that the
Ravens seemed to.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Be Yeah wow, to just change.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I mean, I would think now, I said about an
hour ago, Aaron Rodgers retires or goes to the Vikings,
I didn't think he was going to run it back.
Now that Tomlin's gone, Does that change the Aaron Rodgers equation.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
I think it makes it less likely.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
I just don't understand why you would kind of pigeonhole
yourself into that version of the team when again, it
feels like you're kind of closing the book and starting
a new year. They have seven picks in the top
four rounds this year and five picks in the top
one hundre already. On offense, they have one of the
youngest offensive lines in the league, and on defense, there
are a lot of guys that I do not think
(20:07):
will be back next year if you are kind of
transitioning to a different version of the team. Jaywen, Ramsey,
Darius Slay was on the team this year. Again, they
were one of the oldest teams in the NFL. I
expect them when we wake up in the middle of
next season and you look at the ages of these
rosters to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL.
And I'm just not sure how a forty two year
old Aaron Rodgers jives with that.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Okay, let's talk. Let's talk New York Giants. So I've
always felt the Ravens could use a play caller that
just is Kumbaya with Lamar Jackson. Let's get the Lamar
thing right, it's his franchise. I could see Stefanski being
a great fit. The Giants need a culture guy. They've
had a warped culture for a decade. To me, that
(20:50):
screams Tomlin and Harball. Not that Kevin couldn't do it, Robert,
But I think I just think of Stefanski as quarterback, strong,
offensive minded. If I give you I mean, would Tom
Wan even be interested in the Giants or do you
think he does TV? And Harbaugh is the leader of
the clubhouse in New York.
Speaker 7 (21:10):
If Tom Win wants a job, I think he should
be interested in the Giants. I was talking to somebody
who's been interviewing for a lot of these jobs over
the last couple of weeks a few days ago, and
we were talking about how you stack up the priorities
for why these jobs are appealing and why they aren't.
And we were trying to kind of tear out if
you were talking about quarterback, ownership, the quality of the roster,
all of this, how would you do it? And his
(21:31):
first thing was quarterback and ownership I think should be
at the top. And if that's the case, and you
look at the Giants, even if you're worried about the GM,
even if you're worried about certain elements of the roster,
they at least have a promising young quarterback.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
And the ownership there is stable.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
There's stability there, There's going to be patients there I
think the Giants as an organization are more attractive to
people in the NFL than they are to the general
public right now because of how bad they've been recently,
and so I think that makes sense for John Harbaugh.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Well, yeah, it's like when Brady went to the Bucks,
they needed a right tackle and they got Tristan Wurst
that he brought Gronk down.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
They knew if.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
They could shore up the old line, everybody knew, like, oh,
that's that's a really really interesting roster. Because Jason Light's
been a great GM forever. I look at the Giants similarly,
get a right tackle. It's a tackle heavy draft. If
I'm the Giant, if you told me John Harbaugh they
saw right tackle Scataboo, Jackson, Dart Neighbors, Andrew Thomas that
(22:33):
in that division, I don't listen. We just saw this
with Vrabel, Ben Johnson, and Liam Cohen. And by the way,
let's talk about that. Three guys Mike McDonald the year before,
three guys came in and took messes, some of them disasters,
and cleaned them up.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Is that maybe why we have nine openings.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
I think it has to be.
Speaker 7 (22:57):
And I think the Seahawks are actually a really good
parallel to what we're looking at with the Steelers. Pete
Carroll had been consistently good for a very long time.
They're constantly in the mix the exact same way the
Steelers were, But you had questions about the ceiling. This
is a team that hadn't won a playoff game in
seven eight years. They were consistently getting bounced early when
they did get in. It didn't feel like they had
(23:18):
a ceiling as an organization. And you get to the
end of that twenty twenty three season and say, you
know what, Pete, we appreciate everything you've done.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
It's time for us to move in a different direction.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
You go get a Mike McDonald who's on the cutting
edge defensively in the NFL. He is the Sean McVay
of that side of the ball, and you have seen
the ways that he has lifted the ceiling for that team,
and I think the Steelers are in a very similar situation.
And when you have these guys that can come in
in one year and you see this huge jump not
only with the wins and losses, but with the ceiling
(23:47):
of the team, feels like I think you're going to
see more and more owners have a quick hook because
something like that could be on the table.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Marcus Freeman Notre Dame opinion on him, like the NFL
teams circling back on him.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
I think it may be possible in this cycle.
Speaker 7 (24:04):
Because this cycle is strange with the candidate pool in
most other years, I think defaulting to the offensive coach.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
That's my personal bias.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
If I'm trying to build the perfect archetype of NFL
head coach, just based on the percentages and which guys
usually succeed in which guys usually win, I want the
offensive play calling head coach. In last year's cycle, I
want Ben Johnson, I want Liam Cohen. There are not
a lot of clear cut candidates that fit that model.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
This year.
Speaker 7 (24:31):
Clint Kubiak, after one year with the Seahawks, has gotten
a handful of interviews because he's really one of the
only guys. And so I think because this pool specifically
doesn't fall in line with what organizations have been chasing
over the last few years, it opens the door for
maybe a couple guys who don't fit the mold getting
some of these jobs.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Man, this is really really fascinating nine openings. I mean
just three weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
If you just said Stefanski, John Ball, Mike Tomlin, nine openings,
let me let me throw a team. We don't talk
about a lot. I think the Titans is sneaky interesting.
I really, you know, I know Robert, they're out mass.
I think cam Ward's pretty talented guy. I think I'm
(25:18):
gonna throw this out there. Brian Daboll interviews Friday. Dabel
gets the Titans job. Does that sound crazy to you?
Speaker 7 (25:26):
No, it doesn't sound crazy because again, there aren't that
many offensive coaches in this cycle. And if you're steadfast
with Tennessee being like, we need an offensive coach to
pair with cam Ward, there are only four or five
guys that I think are hot candidates that you're really
thinking about. So if Dabel was in the mix of that,
I totally understand. With Tennessee specifically, they'd check O out
of the boxes. They have a quarterback who at least
(25:48):
showed promise this year. The numbers are bad, but you
could talk yourself into cam Ward pretty easily. There's roster flexibility.
They have resources to go out and spend and try
to improve that thing quickly. The question with Tennessee is
going to be ownership. How do you feel about going
into a place that has been dysfunctional, that has been impatient,
that has kind of changed the target and moved the
(26:10):
goalposts a lot over the last five years. If you
trust their new infrastructure with Mike Borganzi as the GM,
with Shad Brinker as the president, and you think that
there is a new found stability there that kind of
insulates you from what Amy Adams Trunk has done over
the last few years. There are some parts of that
job that I do think are pretty appealing.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I have defended Matt Lafleur. I said he won the
first half against Ben Johnson. I always feel the first
half is the game plan and the script half. The
second half a lot of times that's off script and
Caleb Williams and Josh Allen and Mahomes make plays, But
the first half's always felt like that's the week's work.
Your first three series, that's the week's work. I thought
(26:49):
Matt had a very good first half. When you look
at the Packers' loss and I know it's over and
Lafleur's probably going to retain his job, where do we
point the fingers on it? Because I didn't think Ben
Johnson Robert. I thought he kind of overt I thought
he was a little desperate going forward in the first half.
I thought he got too cute too often his first playoff.
(27:11):
You know, as the coach, I get it everybody in
green Bay, every Chiefs hit, Get him out of here.
Where do you point the fingers with Green Bay's loss?
Speaker 7 (27:21):
I think the quality of the offensive line and their
struggles in the second half had a big, big.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Part in it.
Speaker 7 (27:27):
Their inability to run the ball in the second half,
the fact that Jordan Love was pressured so much more
than he was in the first half. I think you
saw the fact that they had some component parts change out.
They had a backup right tackle in there. They had
a left tackle who's a solid player, but not a
great player. Is going to be hitting free agency. This
roster does not have a lot of stars on it.
That was their problem over the last couple of seasons.
(27:47):
It was a good roster, but not a roster with
a lot of high end talent. That's why you go
out and get Micah Parsons. Well, Michael Parsons didn't play
in that playoff game. Their right tackles that Tom might
have been their best player. On offense other than the quarterback.
He didn't play in that game game And so in
a lot of ways, the Packers of twenty twenty three
and twenty twenty four talent wise, are the team that
showed up last weekend, and so you had a similar
(28:09):
end that you've had over the last couple of years.
I get if you're frustrated, if you're a Packers fan.
I don't want to diminish that. But I still feel
like if you look at the results over the last
three seasons, this hasn't really been a team that's underachieved.
It's a team that just is kind of plateaued when
we've gotten to the end of the year. But I
think they're still young, and I think there's still a
ceiling here. And this to me feels different than the
(28:29):
Tomlin conversation than the Harbaugh conversation. If I were the Packers,
I would want Matt Lafleur back, and so I'm not
surprised that that's where it seems to be trending.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
By the way. I want to circle back to Tomlin.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So Sean Payton left New Orleans and he came to
Fox and Sean and I went to dinner and we
talked and we texted a lot. We talked every week
we had an interview, and we would talk before we
went on the air, on the air and off the air,
and the before and afterwards way better than the on
the air stuff. And we talked a lot about it,
and I kept saying, dude, you know some of the
(29:01):
analysts at Fox, you know, they don't want to do
this stuff forever. Jimmy Johnson likes to fish. Okay, like
I said, stick around for about five years here. And
he's like, oh no, yeah, maybe what we talk about
the broadcasting thing, and he's just got too many things
ruminating upstairs.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
There's no way he could do broadcasting.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
And he took the Denver job without Russell Wilson cap
hit and I'm like, yeah, you're in the division with Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I don't know if I like that. Well it works.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
So I look at Tomlin and I think Tomlin's.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
A competitive guy.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
He's not a sit put a nice suit on and
talk football. He could do it for a year and
he'd probably be unbelievably great. He's just he's a quote.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
He's great.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
But what about this that Mike Tomlin does a Peyton
and says, I don't like the coach, I don't like
the job pool.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
In one year now, the Green.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Bay thing could be, I guess might take it. Dallas
could come. Schottenheimer may get one more year, right, looks
like he will. Do you think there's a play for
Tomlin to do TV for a year and then like
Sean Payton, who said, oh, the richest owners in the league, oh,
we got a first round pick and it's a great
quarterback draft, do you think there is a possibility that
(30:16):
in a year, if we got nine this year, that
maybe better jobs happen in a year from now.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
I'm sure Sean saw the check and didn't really mind
that Patrick Mahomes and ay Read were waiting around.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
They seemed to enjoy that, And I don't blame him whatsoever.
Speaker 7 (30:29):
I think with the quality of the jobs of Tom Whin,
I think that matters a little bit less, just because
I think he'll have options when he comes to it.
I think there will always be a job in every
cycle that is probably worth taking if you're Mike Tomlin.
The year off to me is most interesting because I
think guys can benefit.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
From a year off.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
If I'm Mike Tomlin, I think that where I would
sit back and evaluate who I was as a coach
and what did I needed to be moving forward would be,
and how you build your staff and how you seek
out coordinators on both sides of the ball. That's massively
important when you're a coach like Mike Tomlin, who is
one of these CEO type head coaches. The guys who've
been successful in that role, who've gotten further than the
(31:08):
Steelers have over the last couple of years, are the
guys that have been really good at finding the right people.
That's why I have faith in John Harbaugh in his
next stop in a way I might not have with
a Pete Carroll is that John consistently in Baltimore understood
when he needed to change out coordinators and why he
hires Mike McDonald, he goes and gets Todd Monkin when
the Greg Roman things runs out of road. If I'm
(31:30):
Mike Tomlin, I want to take a step back and
for a year just visit with people around the league.
Talk to people who should I be seeking out? What
should my offense look like? Who are the people that
I should build my staff with. Just take yourself out
of that small kind of insulated world when you're the
head coach and your head is down all the time,
and just think about how you need to build things
(31:51):
moving forward for you to be successful. Because I think
if he surrounds himself with the right ideas, he is
such a good coach and a good motivat that that
overall construction and that overall model that would be appealing
to me if I were an owner trying to fill one.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
Of these jobs.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
How about this nine openings?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Do you think it's possible based on either results this
weekend or a Bushati John Harbaugh bad phone call, there'll
be another job opening? Or do you believe the Browns, Cards, Dolphin, Falcons, Giants, Raiders,
Raven Steelers, Titans?
Speaker 7 (32:25):
Is it.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Or there's just one that you're kind of wondering about
any I don't know what that would be.
Speaker 7 (32:35):
Meagles, Eagles, Eagles. Maybe I'd be surprised about that. I
think they won the Super Bowl last year. They've had
enough evidence where if they have the right coordinators in
that building, they can be successful and competitive. I think
they swap out the offensive coordinator before they move on
from Sirianni. I think twenty twenty six becomes all right,
we got to see it before we decide whether we
want to go in a new direction.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
I think they stayed the course.
Speaker 7 (32:58):
The other one that obviously we've talked about over the
last couple of years is what happens with Buffalo. I
think right now, you watch what they did on defense
against the Jags last week. Yeah, yeah, the Bill's defense
and how well coached that Bill's defense has been in
certain moments when they don't have a lot of talent.
I honestly think, even if it ends in the divisional round,
this is the year I have felt best on what
(33:18):
McDermott is providing for the Bills than I have over
the last couple of years, and so on that front,
I think I'd be surprised if they moved on. And
I think that's really the only one that even might
make sense given the teams that are left.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Robert Mays the Athletic Football Show terrific. Well, that Mike
Tomlin detour for the last fifteen minutes. It is nine
openings is the most since twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
So wow, this is just wild, Robert, is it really?
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Is? It?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Really is?
Speaker 7 (33:50):
No?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I mean it's like this is something I talked about
several years ago. Owners used to be worth six hundred
and fifty million. Now they're worth four billion, and they
can just right those checks.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
They can just.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Clean the staff out. Here's sixty million. I'm starting over.
I made that yesterday on my tech stocks, you know.
I mean, it's just a different world. They're more impulsive.
But to your point, they're watching Rabel and Jim Harbaugh
and Liam Cohen and Mike McDonald and they're like, yeah,
I'm gonna do this. Just get the right guy, Demiko Ryans.
(34:21):
Before Demico got that job, I thought Houston was the
biggest has Matt spill in the league an hour before
he took that job. Nick Cassari, I mean, didn't we
think five years ago, four years ago, the worst franchise honestly,
wasn't it Houston.
Speaker 7 (34:37):
It was the most forgettable franchise. It was the most
irrelevant franchise in the league. They existed in complete anonymity
for like four years.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
But you just feel how differently things can change.
Speaker 7 (34:47):
Think about the way the Bears are talked about when
it comes to ownership and the quality of the organization
and their entire reputation for the last five to ten years.
Ben Johnson's been there for eleven months, and how different
does it feel.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
It feels so.
Speaker 7 (35:03):
Different, And I think that's why there's an allure to this,
because you can convince yourself that if you get the
right guy, you can change everything in an instant.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
And as long as.
Speaker 7 (35:13):
We have evidence that points to that, I think you're
going to see owners operate this way.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Robert, great stuff, as always, Thanks, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Wow. Nine openings, Yeah, I mean, Marcus Freeman, keep your
eye on Brian Dabele, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Kevin Stefanski,
Mike mc I'll throw this. Mike McDaniel may get a
(35:43):
second opportunity. You say, wow, I mean Miami didn't end well,
got to the playoffs twice. What ammos a GM, Mike
McDaniel and Brian Dabele have got to be thinking nine openings.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
I'm getting more.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
And I don't I don't necessarily think it would be
a bad thing.
Speaker 7 (36:03):
Hurt
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Here we go. It is a Tuesday. We are live.
We're in Chicago. It's the Herd.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Wherever you may be, however you may be watching or listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
The truth.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Once the playoffs arrived always reveals itself. You can't trust
the Jacksonville Jaguars and the Pittsburgh Steelers our sears department store.
Three point one yards per play, lowest yards per play
in the last nine years in the playoffs, and they
(01:12):
got turnovers.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
They get three times.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Houston gave him opportunities, thirteen total first downs, aful on
third down.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Couldn't run the ball again.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
If the Steelers were just competent offensively, and I know
the Texans are good, but you had a ballgame. Pittsburgh's
longest drive in the second half twenty three yards. So
they're not going to fire Mike Tomlin. Aaron's of course
going to always defend him. They have no young quarterback
for the future.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
It's one of.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
The oldest rosters in the league. The money's mostly spent
on defense. Pittsburgh is stuck in a mediocrity loop and
they're never terrible, but exceedingly average. And they've become so
consumed with stability, loyalty. Hey, at least we're not Cleveland. Yeah,
(02:04):
but either are the Chiefs. The Rams are the Niners,
and they take swings. I mean a prime example of
the Steelers they go get DK Metcalf and yet the
Steelers are last in the NFL with Aaron Rodgers in
air yards per attempt. So they buy a sports car
and don't know how to drive it. And it's not
just about not winning a playoff game for nine years.
(02:25):
I went and looked at Mike Tomlin's last thirteen playoff games.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
There's six blowout losses.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
In fact, in their last seven playoff games, they have
not led for a single snap in the second half
in any of them. The games aren't that competitive. You
thought last night was competitive. Start of the fourth you
knew who the better team was. So there's an old
saying about you know, you can't save your way to
(02:51):
being wealthy just being content. And that's how I feel
about the Steelers. You know they want to be content,
which to me just feels like a weighted blanket.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I just don't get it. There.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
You got to take swings, increase risk. We're going into
another season Aaron'll take off. They won't have any urgency
at quarterback. And it's actually the easy way out in
life to not offend anybody and be loyal to all
your employees. That is the easy way out in life.
It's hard to fire people. And I'm not insisting that
(03:28):
you should fire Tom. It's not what I'm saying. He
get a TV job or another job in one second.
He's more than competent. Stop spending money on defense. Okay,
last night. It's like I know in Pittsburgh and I
get it. It's an old school, proud town that putting
fries and a sandwich is cool. But the rest of
(03:49):
the country took the fries, moved him on a plate,
put parmesan cheese and truffle salt on them.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
That's what the rest of us do.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's time to spend money on offense. It's time to
today work on getting your next star quarterback, free agency, college,
whatever you gotta do. But I just I feel like,
I mean, I suggested, remember this couple of years ago.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Oh outr.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I was mocked when I suggested TJ. Watt, still in
his prime before the injuries mount move.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Him for two first round picks.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Pittsburgh's like, nah, we're gonna make him the highest paid
non quarterback in the league.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
A few more injuries. TJ.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Watt now aller and five in playoff games. You're grabbing
on to the wrong stuff, spending way too much money
on defense every I mean again, you can be loyal
to your best employees, right. I'm not asking for anybody
to be fired here. It's not my thing. I was
(04:52):
surprised that John Harbaugh was Harbaugh and Tomlin you can argue,
you know, kind of the same resume. But it's like
Baltimore is flexible, understands offense, spends on offense, drafts and develops.
They're trying new stuff and new coordinators, new things. I
(05:12):
never feel like Baltimore's outdated. They just couldn't beat Mahomes
or Josh Allen. So Aaron Rodgers after the game asked
about his future as a Steeler.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
I'm not going to make any emotional decisions. Disappointed, you know, obviously,
I'm such a fun.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Year league game.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You wanted to be here.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I'm not going to talk about.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
That, Aaron Hunt, do you approach just what you decide
to do next?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
They just get away and then then have the right conversations.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Okay, So Aaron's going to disappear for a while. He
did that in his prime. He's certainly going to do
it now.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
It's his life.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Hall of Famer, first ballot, smart guy, he's got a
big broad life. You're going to disappear, and Mike Tomlin's
not getting fired, and they're gonna downplay they've got any concern.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
About quarterback issues.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
But they will continue to be a team that is
not a viable Super Bowl organization.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
They won't be now now, Aaron, and.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I guess to his credit, he was pretty feisty on
the bench last night. He was obviously not happy. He
defended Mike Tomlin after.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I want you to listen to this.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Mike Tz had more success and damn near anybody in
the league. You know, from for the last nineteen twenty
years and more than that that when you have the
right guy and the culture is right, you don't think
about making a change. But there's a lot of pressure
that comes from the outside, and obviously that sways decisions
(06:48):
from time to time. But it's not how I would
do things, and not how the league used to be.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Okay, let me stop right there. It's not what the
league used to be.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
The NFL's now smarter, shrewder, and more offensive. The league
isn't what it used to be, but the Steelers are.
They spend all their money on defense, so you know
what the league is now. It's not what it was
when Tomlin took over the Steelers. We're just a good
defense in a run game, got you to a Super
Bowl and won it. Now it's about offensive coaches, it's
(07:22):
about quarterbacks and passing games.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It's about spending your money.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
At left tackle, quarterback, two weapons, maybe even a center,
not on a second pass rusher. So that mindset that
Aaron just voiced is precisely why the Steelers steel outdated.
The last nine Super Bowl champs nine for nine have
top ten offenses. The Steelers once again this year twenty
sixth on offense. For a city that worships bridges, Pittsburgh
(07:54):
needs to cross one. It's time to change the way
you're doing business.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Sears J. C. Penny were cool.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Now we all shop online like you got to stop
the money on the other side. So the NFL is richer.
General managers are younger and very aggressive, Howie roseman less
need go look around now. The best gms are young
and they're taking big risks, and they're very busy at
(08:25):
the trade deadline. I mean, I'll give you credit for
DK metcalf and at the same time George Pickens left.
And I'm not sure who's already better this year. It
was it was Pickens. So and I don't buy into
well the league was better years ago.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
It's safer now, it's smarter now. The gms are less
risk averse. So you know, I'm just I'm looking at
Aaron Rodgers against playoff teams this season, and I thought
Aaron played very, very well.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I defended Aaron. Everybody is my witness the entire year.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
But judge a team, not how you were against the
Bengals without Joe Burrow or the cruddy Browns and the
AFC this year was weaker.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
This year, even Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Against playoff teams had a passer rating of seventy was
one in five. That's with Aaron, who I thought played
really well most of the year.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I really did.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Based on what I saw as last year in Green
Band with the Jets, I thought Aaron played very well
except against the good teams. And you could watch Aaron's
body language on the first drive last night. He got
upset with a teammate. He was upset on the bench
last night, and I said, Steelers are offensive quicksand Aaron
just stepped into it, and to his credit, he elevated
(09:44):
this team. Aaron deserves a lot of credit for forty
two years old. I thought he played really well. They
don't have a number two receiver, DK Metcalf got himself
in trouble, had to miss two big games.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Run game.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I like Jalen Warren. The old line was better than
I thought. Some of that goes to credit Arthur Smith
and Aaron Rodgers. But the last Dine Super Bowl champs
nine for nine, top ten offenses. The world has pivoted.
It's pivoted, and that city that worships bridges. They are
just struggling to cross it to the other side. All right,
(10:18):
J Matt, congratulations you hit your first bet of the weekend.
I know you were freaking out last night. You know
It's funny the whole second half. I'm like, the Texans
are the better team. The Texans are going to win
this game. But Pittsburgh did this all year long. They
just sort of hung around in games where they couldn't
generate much offense. So it was at least, you know,
fourth quarter was entertaining for a while.
Speaker 6 (10:38):
Happy to get aside. Right, the Texas defense took over.
I just don't know what they're going to have going
into New England without Nico Collins. That concussion look brutal.
I can't imagine a scenario where he plays. The defense
is awesome, but Colin that offense. What has happened to CJ.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Shroud?
Speaker 6 (10:54):
I mean, that guy has regressed since his rookie year.
I'm not seeing it.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Well.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Thank God for Woody Marx and Christian Kirk. Christidon Kirk.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Did you know Christian Kirk was the leading receiver on
Wild Card Weekend? Most yards of any receiver or tight
end was Christian It.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Was a Texas A and m Kid and that I think
he went to like an Arizona bounced around. He actually
works in Houston. Yeah, yeah, no, that's right, Jacksonville. He
works in Houston. Had a great night for him.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is
taking over YouTube and you can be a part of it.
Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit
that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch
(11:41):
all the videos from your favorite shows, Tube Pros and
a Cup of Joe, Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Doug Gottlieb
Cavino and Rich The Odd Couple with Rob Parker and
Kelvin Washington, The Jason Smith Show with Mike Harmon, and
The Ben Maller Show. Fox Sports Radio on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And it's just being reported. Mike Tomlin has officially stepped
down after a historic nineteen season run. According to Adam
Schefter and Jeremy Fowler, the Steelers will be looking for
their first coach, only their fourth coach since the late sixties,
Kevin Stefanski, howe sweet?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Would that be? The Browns let him go?
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Two time NFL Coach of the Year, Pittsburgh picks him up,
That's where I would go. And I'll be honest with you,
I'm not so sure the front office I'm in love
with either.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I think it's the right move. People.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Mike the fable on our show yesterday, saying he knew
Tomlin wouldn't be fired, but he can see him stepping down.
And I don't know how those things get negotiated behind
the scenes, but you know, when you know fans are channing,
you know, fire Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
It's time.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I think Mike will pick up a network job. I
mean I would be shocked if he was not on
the phone this morning with his agent. Uh he'll make Uh,
don't don't. I could give you the networks in order
of where he's gonna go. I'm not gonna do that
at this point, but yeah, Mike, it's time, like they
(13:16):
And by the way, I think it's not just Tomlin.
I think Mike's going to take a year off. But
because I don't think there's a lot of great jobs,
I would not be shocked. The winner in This is
the New York Giants.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now they've got Harbaugh, Stefanski and Mike Tomlin. Suddenly it
went from a lean coaching market to the best in
a long time. So stop it, all the coordinators. If
you can hire Tomlin, Harbar or Kevin Stefanski, you hire
him like a Vrabel, like a Harball, like a Sean Payton.
Stop messing around. So also, uh, Tomlin is a culture guy.
(13:56):
He's not a scheme guy. He's very much like Harball
and Vray. And so my take is what the Giants need.
I mean, they could hire Stefanski. I think it'd be
a good coach. The Giants need a culture guy. They're
a mess. Well that's what John Harbaugh is, That's what
Mike Tomlin is. In fact, I'm just thinking, in the
(14:17):
recesses of my mind, did Tomlin say, listen, I saw
Jackson dark play. Harbaugh thinks he's got that job. I'm
gonna go steal that New York Giant job from John Harbaugh.
These guys are all alphas, all competitive, but I think
it's time. I think Pittsburgh needs a reset as an organization.
(14:38):
It's easy to just blame Mike Tomlin, but the GM
stepped down and they brought somebody that had been in
house a long time. I think they need a young,
high risk, high reward GM. I think they need to
go get an offensive coach. If I was the Steelers,
(14:58):
I would offer the job today to Kevin Stefanski. That's
what I would do. Go get an offensive coach. And
if I was Kevin Stefanski, I'd call Aaron and say,
thank you so much, I'm gonna go find my next guy.
I think a lot of these coaches Aaron Glenn didn't.
I don't think they want to inherit. They don't want
(15:19):
to inherit Aaron Rodgers at forty two. So NFL head
coaching vacancies are now up to nine, including three of
the four teams in the AFC North. So the Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Giants, Titans, Falcons, Cardinals, Raiders,
(15:39):
Dolphins have openings. Ravens is the best job they have.
Lamar good roster. I don't know if there's a clear too.
Steelers Giants have some things I like about both. Again,
when I said a couple of years ago, I'd moved
(15:59):
TJ Wat and get more picks, that was outrageous. TJ's
zero for five in the playoffs. How outrageous is it? Yeah,
there's a bunch of bad jobs, and then there's the
Ravens job. I think you'd probably say Giants Steelers. I
like some stuff on the offensive side, plus Abdul Carter
(16:20):
for the Giants.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
And I like the.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
I mean, if Steelers have a Packers feel like, you know,
there's not a lot of chaos in the building, but
I think they got to take some swings upstairs and
on the sidelines.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a em Pacific Well.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
He's an NFL writer for The Athletic and the host
of the Athletic Football Show. Robert Mays is sensational, previously
at Grantlin and The Ringer, and he is now joining
us on the news that Mike Tomlin has decided to go.
I think there's needs to be a house cleaning inside
the organization. They spend too much money on defense. I
think it's easy to blame Tomlin, who's an elite motivator.
(17:00):
He'll be a great TV analyst, or he'll get the
Giants job. I mean, it's that new York Giants. Don't
you know the winner in this, Robert, The winner is
the Giants. They got a hard Voss, Tafanski and Tomlin.
That's pretty meaty. The other winner to me is Brian
Dable because now we have nine openings and I thought
he was on the edge of getting a job. But
with nine, I think Brian Dabole winning a playoff game
(17:23):
with Daniel Jones now gets a head coaching job.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Let's start with Tomlin. Though you did a show.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Right after the game last night and after the loss,
Let's start with what your initial reaction was on Tomlin.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
But it was time. I think it was time for
both sides.
Speaker 7 (17:38):
And I never thought that the Steelers would fire Mike Tomlin,
and they didn't. I think he was going to be
a conversation, and I feel like we were in a
place with both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it
was mutually beneficial for them to go their separate ways.
This had run out of road on so many different fronts,
so we could talk about this. But the Steelers are
poised to go from being one of the oldest teams
in the league to kind of having a little bit
(17:59):
of a youth movement. They have a ton of picks
this year. They can move on from guys like TJ.
Watt and Cam Hayward over the next couple of years.
It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild, and
I feel like somebody else coming in with a new
vision to kind of shepherd that version of the organization
that made sense for them and for Tomlin. You have
no pathway to a quarterback right now if you're the
(18:19):
Steelers head coach. I think him either taking a year
away the same way Sean Payton did, or just moving
to a different situation where the team is positioned differently
for both parties. I felt like this was the right
time to say goodbye, and so I'm not shocked or
surprised to see this.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Who do you think is the leading candidate for that job.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
It's a great question because I heard you say earlier
that you could see them going with an offensive coach,
and I would completely understand that if they wanted to
go with a guy like Kevin Stefanski. I do think
that's pretty far removed from what the Tomlin row was,
and I think that's appealing in some ways.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
I get that.
Speaker 7 (18:53):
I also think this is an organization that has not
been afraid to do things that are unconventional. When they
hired Mike Tomlin, he was a thirty five year old
kind of anonymous assistant that they thought was the right
guy for the job, and so I wouldn't be surprised
if all the options were on the table. I think
a lot of organizations do want to do something that's
(19:14):
distinct from what just came before it. I don't know
if the Steelers are necessarily going to jump at that.
I feel like there are gonna be a lot of
different kinds of candidates that they consider for this sort
of job, kind of in the same way that the
Ravens seemed to.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Be Yeah wow, to just change.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I mean, I would think now, I said about an
hour ago, Aaron Rodgers retires or goes to the Vikings,
I didn't think he was going to run it back.
Now that Tomlin's gone, Does that change the Aaron Rodgers equation.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
I think it makes it less likely.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
I just don't understand why you would kind of pigeonhole
yourself into that version of the team when again, it
feels like you're kind of closing the book and starting
a new year. They have seven picks in the top
four rounds this year and five picks in the top
one hundre already. On offense, they have one of the
youngest offensive lines in the league, and on defense, there
are a lot of guys that I do not think
(20:07):
will be back next year if you are kind of
transitioning to a different version of the team. Jaywen, Ramsey,
Darius Slay was on the team this year. Again, they
were one of the oldest teams in the NFL. I
expect them when we wake up in the middle of
next season and you look at the ages of these
rosters to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL.
And I'm just not sure how a forty two year
old Aaron Rodgers jives with that.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Okay, let's talk. Let's talk New York Giants. So I've
always felt the Ravens could use a play caller that
just is Kumbaya with Lamar Jackson. Let's get the Lamar
thing right, it's his franchise. I could see Stefanski being
a great fit. The Giants need a culture guy. They've
had a warped culture for a decade. To me, that
(20:50):
screams Tomlin and Harball. Not that Kevin couldn't do it, Robert,
But I think I just think of Stefanski as quarterback, strong,
offensive minded. If I give you I mean, would Tom
Wan even be interested in the Giants or do you
think he does TV? And Harbaugh is the leader of
the clubhouse in New York.
Speaker 7 (21:10):
If Tom Win wants a job, I think he should
be interested in the Giants. I was talking to somebody
who's been interviewing for a lot of these jobs over
the last couple of weeks a few days ago, and
we were talking about how you stack up the priorities
for why these jobs are appealing and why they aren't.
And we were trying to kind of tear out if
you were talking about quarterback, ownership, the quality of the roster,
all of this, how would you do it? And his
(21:31):
first thing was quarterback and ownership I think should be
at the top. And if that's the case, and you
look at the Giants, even if you're worried about the GM,
even if you're worried about certain elements of the roster,
they at least have a promising young quarterback.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
And the ownership there is stable.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
There's stability there, There's going to be patients there I
think the Giants as an organization are more attractive to
people in the NFL than they are to the general
public right now because of how bad they've been recently,
and so I think that makes sense for John Harbaugh.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Well, yeah, it's like when Brady went to the Bucks,
they needed a right tackle and they got Tristan Wurst
that he brought Gronk down.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
They knew if.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
They could shore up the old line, everybody knew, like, oh,
that's that's a really really interesting roster. Because Jason Light's
been a great GM forever. I look at the Giants similarly,
get a right tackle. It's a tackle heavy draft. If
I'm the Giant, if you told me John Harbaugh they
saw right tackle Scataboo, Jackson, Dart Neighbors, Andrew Thomas that
(22:33):
in that division, I don't listen. We just saw this
with Vrabel, Ben Johnson, and Liam Cohen. And by the way,
let's talk about that. Three guys Mike McDonald the year before,
three guys came in and took messes, some of them disasters,
and cleaned them up.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Is that maybe why we have nine openings.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
I think it has to be.
Speaker 7 (22:57):
And I think the Seahawks are actually a really good
parallel to what we're looking at with the Steelers. Pete
Carroll had been consistently good for a very long time.
They're constantly in the mix the exact same way the
Steelers were, But you had questions about the ceiling. This
is a team that hadn't won a playoff game in
seven eight years. They were consistently getting bounced early when
they did get in. It didn't feel like they had
(23:18):
a ceiling as an organization. And you get to the
end of that twenty twenty three season and say, you
know what, Pete, we appreciate everything you've done.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
It's time for us to move in a different direction.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
You go get a Mike McDonald who's on the cutting
edge defensively in the NFL. He is the Sean McVay
of that side of the ball, and you have seen
the ways that he has lifted the ceiling for that team,
and I think the Steelers are in a very similar situation.
And when you have these guys that can come in
in one year and you see this huge jump not
only with the wins and losses, but with the ceiling
(23:47):
of the team, feels like I think you're going to
see more and more owners have a quick hook because
something like that could be on the table.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Marcus Freeman Notre Dame opinion on him, like the NFL
teams circling back on him.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
I think it may be possible in this cycle.
Speaker 7 (24:04):
Because this cycle is strange with the candidate pool in
most other years, I think defaulting to the offensive coach.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
That's my personal bias.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
If I'm trying to build the perfect archetype of NFL
head coach, just based on the percentages and which guys
usually succeed in which guys usually win, I want the
offensive play calling head coach. In last year's cycle, I
want Ben Johnson, I want Liam Cohen. There are not
a lot of clear cut candidates that fit that model.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
This year.
Speaker 7 (24:31):
Clint Kubiak, after one year with the Seahawks, has gotten
a handful of interviews because he's really one of the
only guys. And so I think because this pool specifically
doesn't fall in line with what organizations have been chasing
over the last few years, it opens the door for
maybe a couple guys who don't fit the mold getting
some of these jobs.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Man, this is really really fascinating nine openings. I mean
just three weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
If you just said Stefanski, John Ball, Mike Tomlin, nine openings,
let me let me throw a team. We don't talk
about a lot. I think the Titans is sneaky interesting.
I really, you know, I know Robert, they're out mass.
I think cam Ward's pretty talented guy. I think I'm
(25:18):
gonna throw this out there. Brian Daboll interviews Friday. Dabel
gets the Titans job. Does that sound crazy to you?
Speaker 7 (25:26):
No, it doesn't sound crazy because again, there aren't that
many offensive coaches in this cycle. And if you're steadfast
with Tennessee being like, we need an offensive coach to
pair with cam Ward, there are only four or five
guys that I think are hot candidates that you're really
thinking about. So if Dabel was in the mix of that,
I totally understand. With Tennessee specifically, they'd check O out
of the boxes. They have a quarterback who at least
(25:48):
showed promise this year. The numbers are bad, but you
could talk yourself into cam Ward pretty easily. There's roster flexibility.
They have resources to go out and spend and try
to improve that thing quickly. The question with Tennessee is
going to be ownership. How do you feel about going
into a place that has been dysfunctional, that has been impatient,
that has kind of changed the target and moved the
(26:10):
goalposts a lot over the last five years. If you
trust their new infrastructure with Mike Borganzi as the GM,
with Shad Brinker as the president, and you think that
there is a new found stability there that kind of
insulates you from what Amy Adams Trunk has done over
the last few years. There are some parts of that
job that I do think are pretty appealing.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I have defended Matt Lafleur. I said he won the
first half against Ben Johnson. I always feel the first
half is the game plan and the script half. The
second half a lot of times that's off script and
Caleb Williams and Josh Allen and Mahomes make plays, But
the first half's always felt like that's the week's work.
Your first three series, that's the week's work. I thought
(26:49):
Matt had a very good first half. When you look
at the Packers' loss and I know it's over and
Lafleur's probably going to retain his job, where do we
point the fingers on it? Because I didn't think Ben
Johnson Robert. I thought he kind of overt I thought
he was a little desperate going forward in the first half.
I thought he got too cute too often his first playoff.
(27:11):
You know, as the coach, I get it everybody in
green Bay, every Chiefs hit, Get him out of here.
Where do you point the fingers with Green Bay's loss?
Speaker 7 (27:21):
I think the quality of the offensive line and their
struggles in the second half had a big, big.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Part in it.
Speaker 7 (27:27):
Their inability to run the ball in the second half,
the fact that Jordan Love was pressured so much more
than he was in the first half. I think you
saw the fact that they had some component parts change out.
They had a backup right tackle in there. They had
a left tackle who's a solid player, but not a
great player. Is going to be hitting free agency. This
roster does not have a lot of stars on it.
That was their problem over the last couple of seasons.
(27:47):
It was a good roster, but not a roster with
a lot of high end talent. That's why you go
out and get Micah Parsons. Well, Michael Parsons didn't play
in that playoff game. Their right tackles that Tom might
have been their best player. On offense other than the quarterback.
He didn't play in that game game And so in
a lot of ways, the Packers of twenty twenty three
and twenty twenty four talent wise, are the team that
showed up last weekend, and so you had a similar
(28:09):
end that you've had over the last couple of years.
I get if you're frustrated, if you're a Packers fan.
I don't want to diminish that. But I still feel
like if you look at the results over the last
three seasons, this hasn't really been a team that's underachieved.
It's a team that just is kind of plateaued when
we've gotten to the end of the year. But I
think they're still young, and I think there's still a
ceiling here. And this to me feels different than the
(28:29):
Tomlin conversation than the Harbaugh conversation. If I were the Packers,
I would want Matt Lafleur back, and so I'm not
surprised that that's where it seems to be trending.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
By the way. I want to circle back to Tomlin.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So Sean Payton left New Orleans and he came to
Fox and Sean and I went to dinner and we
talked and we texted a lot. We talked every week
we had an interview, and we would talk before we
went on the air, on the air and off the air,
and the before and afterwards way better than the on
the air stuff. And we talked a lot about it,
and I kept saying, dude, you know some of the
(29:01):
analysts at Fox, you know, they don't want to do
this stuff forever. Jimmy Johnson likes to fish. Okay, like
I said, stick around for about five years here. And
he's like, oh no, yeah, maybe what we talk about
the broadcasting thing, and he's just got too many things
ruminating upstairs.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
There's no way he could do broadcasting.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
And he took the Denver job without Russell Wilson cap
hit and I'm like, yeah, you're in the division with Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I don't know if I like that. Well it works.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
So I look at Tomlin and I think Tomlin's.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
A competitive guy.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
He's not a sit put a nice suit on and
talk football. He could do it for a year and
he'd probably be unbelievably great. He's just he's a quote.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
He's great.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
But what about this that Mike Tomlin does a Peyton
and says, I don't like the coach, I don't like
the job pool.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
In one year now, the Green.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Bay thing could be, I guess might take it. Dallas
could come. Schottenheimer may get one more year, right, looks
like he will. Do you think there's a play for
Tomlin to do TV for a year and then like
Sean Payton, who said, oh, the richest owners in the league, oh,
we got a first round pick and it's a great
quarterback draft, do you think there is a possibility that
(30:16):
in a year, if we got nine this year, that
maybe better jobs happen in a year from now.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
I'm sure Sean saw the check and didn't really mind
that Patrick Mahomes and ay Read were waiting around.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
They seemed to enjoy that, And I don't blame him whatsoever.
Speaker 7 (30:29):
I think with the quality of the jobs of Tom Whin,
I think that matters a little bit less, just because
I think he'll have options when he comes to it.
I think there will always be a job in every
cycle that is probably worth taking if you're Mike Tomlin.
The year off to me is most interesting because I
think guys can benefit.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
From a year off.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
If I'm Mike Tomlin, I think that where I would
sit back and evaluate who I was as a coach
and what did I needed to be moving forward would be,
and how you build your staff and how you seek
out coordinators on both sides of the ball. That's massively
important when you're a coach like Mike Tomlin, who is
one of these CEO type head coaches. The guys who've
been successful in that role, who've gotten further than the
(31:08):
Steelers have over the last couple of years, are the
guys that have been really good at finding the right people.
That's why I have faith in John Harbaugh in his
next stop in a way I might not have with
a Pete Carroll is that John consistently in Baltimore understood
when he needed to change out coordinators and why he
hires Mike McDonald, he goes and gets Todd Monkin when
the Greg Roman things runs out of road. If I'm
(31:30):
Mike Tomlin, I want to take a step back and
for a year just visit with people around the league.
Talk to people who should I be seeking out? What
should my offense look like? Who are the people that
I should build my staff with. Just take yourself out
of that small kind of insulated world when you're the
head coach and your head is down all the time,
and just think about how you need to build things
(31:51):
moving forward for you to be successful. Because I think
if he surrounds himself with the right ideas, he is
such a good coach and a good motivat that that
overall construction and that overall model that would be appealing
to me if I were an owner trying to fill one.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
Of these jobs.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
How about this nine openings?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Do you think it's possible based on either results this
weekend or a Bushati John Harbaugh bad phone call, there'll
be another job opening? Or do you believe the Browns, Cards, Dolphin, Falcons, Giants, Raiders,
Raven Steelers, Titans?
Speaker 7 (32:25):
Is it.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Or there's just one that you're kind of wondering about
any I don't know what that would be.
Speaker 7 (32:35):
Meagles, Eagles, Eagles. Maybe I'd be surprised about that. I
think they won the Super Bowl last year. They've had
enough evidence where if they have the right coordinators in
that building, they can be successful and competitive. I think
they swap out the offensive coordinator before they move on
from Sirianni. I think twenty twenty six becomes all right,
we got to see it before we decide whether we
want to go in a new direction.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
I think they stayed the course.
Speaker 7 (32:58):
The other one that obviously we've talked about over the
last couple of years is what happens with Buffalo. I
think right now, you watch what they did on defense
against the Jags last week. Yeah, yeah, the Bill's defense
and how well coached that Bill's defense has been in
certain moments when they don't have a lot of talent.
I honestly think, even if it ends in the divisional round,
this is the year I have felt best on what
(33:18):
McDermott is providing for the Bills than I have over
the last couple of years, and so on that front,
I think I'd be surprised if they moved on. And
I think that's really the only one that even might
make sense given the teams that are left.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Robert Mays the Athletic Football Show terrific. Well, that Mike
Tomlin detour for the last fifteen minutes. It is nine
openings is the most since twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
So wow, this is just wild, Robert, is it really?
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Is? It?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Really is?
Speaker 7 (33:50):
No?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I mean it's like this is something I talked about
several years ago. Owners used to be worth six hundred
and fifty million. Now they're worth four billion, and they
can just right those checks.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
They can just.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Clean the staff out. Here's sixty million. I'm starting over.
I made that yesterday on my tech stocks, you know.
I mean, it's just a different world. They're more impulsive.
But to your point, they're watching Rabel and Jim Harbaugh
and Liam Cohen and Mike McDonald and they're like, yeah,
I'm gonna do this. Just get the right guy, Demiko Ryans.
(34:21):
Before Demico got that job, I thought Houston was the
biggest has Matt spill in the league an hour before
he took that job. Nick Cassari, I mean, didn't we
think five years ago, four years ago, the worst franchise honestly,
wasn't it Houston.
Speaker 7 (34:37):
It was the most forgettable franchise. It was the most
irrelevant franchise in the league. They existed in complete anonymity
for like four years.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
But you just feel how differently things can change.
Speaker 7 (34:47):
Think about the way the Bears are talked about when
it comes to ownership and the quality of the organization
and their entire reputation for the last five to ten years.
Ben Johnson's been there for eleven months, and how different
does it feel.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
It feels so.
Speaker 7 (35:03):
Different, And I think that's why there's an allure to this,
because you can convince yourself that if you get the
right guy, you can change everything in an instant.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
And as long as.
Speaker 7 (35:13):
We have evidence that points to that, I think you're
going to see owners operate this way.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Robert, great stuff, as always, Thanks, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Wow. Nine openings, Yeah, I mean, Marcus Freeman, keep your
eye on Brian Dabele, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Kevin Stefanski,
Mike mc I'll throw this. Mike McDaniel may get a
(35:43):
second opportunity. You say, wow, I mean Miami didn't end well,
got to the playoffs twice. What ammos a GM, Mike
McDaniel and Brian Dabele have got to be thinking nine openings.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
I'm getting more.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
And I don't I don't necessarily think it would be
a bad thing.
Speaker 7 (36:03):
Hurt
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.
iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2026 Winter Olympics.
Milan Cortina Winter Olympics
The 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan Cortina are here and have everyone talking. iHeartPodcasts is buzzing with content in honor of the XXV Winter Olympics We’re bringing you episodes from a variety of iHeartPodcast shows to help you keep up with the action. Follow Milan Cortina Winter Olympics so you don’t miss any coverage of the 2026 Winter Olympics, and if you like what you hear, be sure to follow each Podcast in the feed for more great content from iHeartPodcasts.