With Colin Cowherd out, Jason McIntyre steps in ready to talk all things World Cup. JMac begins by discussing Argentina & Lionel Messi’s historic comeback to advance to the quarterfinals and how Messi continues to add his lore as the greatest player ever at 39 years old.
Jason also responds to all the critics of USA soccer following their disappointing loss to Belgium. He argues the team is more talented than it has ever been despite failing to advance past the round of 16.
Plus, former USMNT player Dax McCarty joins the show to give his thoughts on Messi’s greatness and the state of US soccer.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
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dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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for listening to The Herd podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello, and to welcome to the Herd.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
It's me Jason McIntyre in for a sick Colin Cowherd.
He had his flu game yesterday, folks, and take it
today off. You'll be back Moniana when the soccer resumes.
It's a glorious Wednesday out here in Los Angeles. I'm
joined by Rachel Nichols. We are both enjoying the World Cup.
(00:47):
We are enjoying the NBA.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Rachel, how's your summer going so far?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
It's going well, Jas, I mean you, I'm trying to
get over Monday night. I feel like I'm finally ready
to move on.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Pick a new team. Are you gonna advise me?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I'm welly yay, that's what you have to do, right,
You have to be like this is like March madness,
all right?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
My number one pick you know. Obviously tem Usa.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Never one in my heart, didn't advance, and so now
I need a new team. Are you gonna give me
some options over the course of the show.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
At the top of next hour, I'll break down the
bracket and my team is winning it all.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Obviously. Listen, we got a loaded show.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
There's a big rumor right now hot that the Lakers
rachel are chasing a former Golden State Warrior. I think
we're gonna have a big show. But let's get started
with Leo nell Messi. Folks, I'm sure you guys like
I did yesterday, watched in amazement, jaw on the floor
watching the greatest to ever do it display all the
grit that the.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
USA didn't show.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
On Monday, Messi carries Argentina on his back from down
to nil.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
They rally to stun Egypt three to two.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
They're calling this the greatest comeback in World Cup history
because no team had ever rallied from down to this
late in the game to win in regularly, and Messi
did that with an assist and then a goal. And listen,
I'm consuming all of the content of course Instagram, there's
all these edits of Messi. You know, Messi gets sad
his PK is denied. Then he narrowly misses a free
(02:14):
k free kick, and then Messi just puts the team
on his back, goes as they like to say, god mode,
you know, and Argentina wins it.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And then he's crying on the pitch after the game.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Folks, I've watched this replay a billion times, and here's
Dereck ray on the call to get fired up. Messi's
goal to tie it.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Leonel Messi deflection there on the way through unturn the line.
Something up here. Argentina fucks check Shlenel Mersay the shavior
for Argentsita I come back when they needed it. Engineers bad,
the man regarded by so many, that's.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
The tritus of the ball.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
From the tips of despair Argentina celebrights.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I mean, honestly, I'm obsessed with the World Cup. You
guys know, soccer was my top sport growing up. I
was a pretty good player. My family had some pretty
good players back back.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
In the day.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I'll just say that.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And the World Cup is something like we never see
that's what every four years.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
And Messi's kind of leading Argentina on this old man renaissance.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I'm sure you guys have seen this in sports.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Messi's thirty nine years old, okay, and he's carrying Argentina.
He's one of the best players on the pitch at
the World Cup at thirty nine. I was told for
the longest time growing up, yep, sports are a young
man's game. Yet here's Tom Brady at forty four winning
a Super Bowl. Here's Matt Stafford at thirty eight winning
the MVP last year. Here's Lebron at forty one shattering
(03:48):
every NBA record that matters because he's still playing at.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Such a high level. Folks, we've never seen this stuff before.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I remember in two thousand and twenty two, it was December,
Messi thirty and Argentina plays that epic World Cup final
against France, and folks, Messi had two goals in that game.
They win in penalty kicks and at the end they
carry Messi off the field.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
They're throwing him in the air.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
He's got the World Cup trophy and we're saying this
is this is John Elwait times ten. Remember Elway wins
the Super Bowl and walks off into the sunset. He's done,
and everybody thought Messi was it's over. You go out
like that with a World Cup at thirty five, the
last award he needed to sinch himself as the goat.
And here he is four years later at thirty nine,
(04:34):
doing other worldly things. I'm personally as a guy who's
aging hopefully gracefully.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I love this old man renaissance.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I mean, Messi is bending free kicks. He's still just
such a sharp player.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
At this age. He is starting this new.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Thing that he's been doing for a while now where
he just walks a lot to conserve energy, walks and
walks and then in a moment, boom, he pops.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Here's Brad Friedel talking.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
About Messi and this god mode that he could go
into and take over games.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
This guy, Lionel Messi, we talk about him all the time.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean, being down two nill against.
Speaker 7 (05:10):
Seventy eight minute he blew by a guy at his age.
I mean he get isked stat sports. Once I was
around them and they were at Barcelona. I said, what's
he got? I know he's great and the skill and
all that, what's he got? And they said, he gets
up to full pace and about a step and a
half to two steps. I mean, it's just it's remarkable
this guy, and he's a leader, and he's humble, and
(05:30):
he's a driven winner.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's really incredible what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I'm sure you guys have heard of the joke because
forever there was this Cristiano Ronaldo versus Messi thing, who's
better And there's a lot of Ronaldo fans, a handsome guy,
chisel dads like the ladies love him. And the joke was,
Christiano Ronaldo is the best soccer player ever. That's because
Leonel Messi is not human. He's not from this earth.
I mean what we're seeing from this guy.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Look at the stats on the screen, folks.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Number one in goals at the World cupffected goals, goal
and goal involvements, shots, shots on target. We've never seen
anything like this. And a lot of people think Argentina's
gonna win it. You know, I built this gambling model.
They think Argentina has value currently. I don't know that
they're going to push through. But at the top of
next hour, I will break down the brackets and give
(06:18):
you my winner. Let's go from leon Al Messi, the
greatest to ever do it, and Argentina, the defending champs,
to Team USA, which fell flat on its face Monday,
losing to Belgium. For one, it's not embarrassing or bad
that we lost to Belgium, guys, that's not the problem.
The problem is how we lost. It was a gutless effort.
(06:40):
I mean, we saw no grit, no heart. You know,
you get punched in the mouth, you fall behind early
and you don't rally at all.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It was embarrassing. It really hurts. And frankly, we looked
so good our starters did in the three games. We
give up one goal to Paraguay, Australia Bosnia like Paraguay's
nothing to Scotfat they showed well after we kicked their
butts right, knocked out Germany.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
We're kind of nipping talk with France.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Even though you know, France had that game and control
one nothing and that's not bad. And where was our grit?
Why didn't we see any of that?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's what really hurts.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And you've got all these columnists and these talking heads
parachuting into soccer right and they're doing their think pieces
and their crisis management.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Oh my gosh, we're never going to be on.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
The on the level of the greats and it's the
same nonsense every four years. Well, if we could only
get the best players in America to play soccer, the
best athletes, imagine if the NBA, and it's the same dumb,
lazy nonsense. I'm really sick of it. As a soccer
guy myself, I think it's just lazy.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And here's the reality.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
We watched a Mexico team, right, Mexico's been down bad.
We've been better than Mexico for it for a close
to a decade. Now, okay, we watched Mexico fall behind
two nothing to England Jude Belling and goals like, oh wow,
it is over. Mexican fought like hell. They refuse to die.
They came back. That was a game until the end.
They lose three to two. Nobody in Mexico's disappointed that
(08:11):
they lost. How they lost. Obviously, you want to win
the game. But they fought like hell. They were excellent.
You know there was grit there. We just watched Argentina
yesterday down to nothing seventy eight minute. Oh my gosh,
it's over. Heart of a friggin champion. Messi put the
team on his back.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Arling Holland Norway against Brazil zero zero Oh well, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Brazil's got so much talent. Holland just says, I'll take this. Thanks,
bang bang, two goals.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's over.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And that's really the thing I didn't see from the
Americans that pissed me off on Monday. You know, you
fall behind one nothing, our whole team teams rattled at
the back. We didn't meet the moment, as they say
in sports. You know, there was a bit of a
distraction if you maybe heard about it in the forty
eight hours leading up. I don't know if that was
a factor, but I mean Reim was victimized on four
(09:01):
straight goals. You know, Listen, I don't want to say
I was right on ring, but I told you guys
for months leading up on this show at Tim reeen,
that's a concern of mine. Then he shows well against Paraguay.
I said, hey, Tim, Tim showed up. You know he's
solid against Bosnia. Well, you know, you step up in
class against Belgium and you get worked. So here is
Landon Donovan going after our star. I've been reluctant to
(09:23):
go after Polisic. Yet here's Landon Donovan. And listen, this
is critical and this is the treatment we give American stars,
and you know soccer's arrived in this country. When Landon
Donovan is dropping bombs like this on Polisic.
Speaker 8 (09:36):
He is who he is at this point, right, and
we want him to be more because we see the
time I've been on here talking about seeing him in
person against Bosnia, the way he moves in.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
The way shore. But that was an easy game.
Speaker 8 (09:50):
He came out of a World Cup knockout game at
home with his leg still intact. Because I'm saying this
to you, Tim, you know it, because you played with me.
You would have had to drag me off the field
and I would have punched the doctor in the face
and said, you're not taking off the field. Put whatever
you need to put in me, and I'm just staying
(10:11):
on the field.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
He's not wrong, guys, He's not And listen, I'm not
here to bash Polisic.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
But the reality is when you're in every.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Commercial during the World Cup alongside Messi and all the greats.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
You got to deliver and show up. And I think Stu.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Holden had the stat my guy, Stu Holden first five touches,
Pulisic had three turnovers.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
He did not have it. And again to go back
to England.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, Jude Bellingham said, I got this boys two goals.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
He was extraordinary.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Tracking back on defense, he cries after the match, like,
I get okay, Jason, you're being too harsh. Pulisic is
not Jude Bellingham, guys.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And that comes to this talent question.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
So Sportico, which is a really good respected business sports
business outlet, they came out with this saying, hey, the
US doesn't have elite talent. Hang and I see this headline, I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Like, that's crap. First of all, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
There's what sixteen teams listed here. We're right there in
the top sixty in the world. That's obvious, okay. And
I won't point out that Brazil and Portugal are near
the top of that list, and they haven't done Jack
squat in the World Cup in the last like five cycles,
so I don't want to four cycle, so I don't
want to hear it. Okay, we have the talent. And
again to just look at the list of leagues around
the world. You know, the US had from the Belgium
(11:26):
match three starters in the EPL. We got two guys
in the top league in Italy, top league in Germany, Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
We got dudes. Now.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
It doesn't help that of the three MLS players, one
of them was Freeze, who had probably the most embarrassing
goal giving up in this World Cup. I don't know
what the hell he was doing, Harvard guy. Not a
smart move there, buddy. And then Tim Reim, who I'm
not going to pile on. He's thirty eight years old.
But those are two MLS guys and they got exposed
against Belgium. But to say we don't have talent, Belgium
(11:54):
has five.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Starters in the EPL.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Where they've got us is depth they're coming off the
bench with.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
They didn't even play Kevin de Bruyna.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
If you know anything about soccer, that guy over the
last fifteen years has been one of the greatest players
in the world. They didn't even use him against US.
So like they've got the depth, we just don't have
that yet. But Landon Dono wom will backed me up here,
Stu Holden will. We have more talent on the US
team now than we've ever had. We've got players all
around the globe in top leagues. The talent is there.
(12:26):
Sometimes you've been the players. Sometimes you blame the coach.
I'm blaming it on grit and heart again. I watched
that match. The first minute there was a ball that
kind of was spinning out and desk was screening their
offensive player, screening to.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Let it go out. The ball goes out and.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
It's Belgium's ball in the first minute, and that was
when you could tell, is our head in the game?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
What the hell is that?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
How is nobody communicating, Hey, that's our ball?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Play it upfield.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
From that moment, it was like, oh, geez, Freeze had
to make a great save and we just spiraled. We
got punched in the mouth and there was no response.
The first time we trailed in the World Cup was
against Belgium, and we responded so poorly that you kind
of got to blame the players. I think the talent
is there. The issue was we just didn't show up
in the moment that counts. But the good news is
(13:12):
there's Copa America, there's Gold Cup. We will be back,
I think with a vengeance. In twenty thirty. All right,
we got a monster show ahead. Go to a little
Lakers talking and people are way down on the Lakers.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Two teams better than in the West.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I can't find a third, there's some Jalen Brown, Jason
Tatum murky stuff. Somebody in the morning meeting said, is
this the new Westbrook Durant. I was like, oh, fire takes,
so he got a great show coming up here on
the Hurt.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Eastern not am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Hey, this is Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire
with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing
the same tired narratives.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Down your throat every day.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest
sports headlines, accurate stats.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
To help you win big at the sportsbook, and all
the best guests.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with
Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
This is Colin Soccer Spotlight. It's brought to you by Haleyon,
the official partner of US Soccer and the maker of Censindine, Toms,
voltairean Advil, and Centrum, the brands behind your everyday wellness
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Speaker 3 (14:42):
All right, let's bring in Dex McCarty, former US national
team player.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Last scene crushing it on First things first throughout the
World Cup decks. Great to have you on.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I'm just curious since you actually played at a high
level in qualifies for qualifiers for the US, when you
watch our performance against Belgium, like, there's no shame in
losing to a good team like Belgium had world class players,
but the way we lost, are you just like, oh, guys,
come on, yeah.
Speaker 9 (15:11):
That's easily the most disappointing aspect of not just losing
in a World Cup, but in a home World's Cup.
The fact that this US men's national team, they really
galvanized the entire country behind them, not just people who
love soccer or people who work in soccer, but maybe
people who don't care as much for soccer. They really
(15:34):
got involved in behind this team because of the way
that they had played throughout the tournament. They won the
games they were expected to win, but it was also
the performances that were really inspiring. The way that you
were dominating teams, scoring goals, the way you were setting records.
It was a team that you could really get behind
(15:54):
and really root for and really start to believe that
they could do something special. And so to go on
the field against Belgium and really not even get off
the bus, you don't even give yourself a chance to
win the game because of the lack of energy, the
lack of enthusiasm that you started the game with. That
for me, is going to be a lasting impression and
a lasting memory on a team that I really wanted
(16:16):
to remember as galvanizing this country to believe in soccer,
as we do every four years. But it was a
really disappointing way to go out.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
So I could take this fifty different ways, But like,
how does that kind of thing happen? Like, usually if
you consistently perform bad out of the gate, hey, it's
probably a coaching game plan issue. Do you think the
Balligan controversy in the forty eight hours leading up do
you think that had anything to.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Do with the mindset?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I mean, if the guys were on their phones, this
was like the number one story in the country above
everything else.
Speaker 9 (16:47):
Yeah, j Mac, I think you have to look at
the situation and say, it would be almost impossible for
this not to be some sort of distraction for the
US men's national team going into the game.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And I'm not saying.
Speaker 9 (17:00):
That's the reason why they started the game so poorly,
but it certainly was a distraction because everywhere you looked,
whether on social media, whether their phones getting texts from
people in their close circles, whether you looked on major
news outlets, that was what was being talked about, and
so it certainly was a part of it. It certainly
motivated Belgium a little bit more than I think they
(17:22):
otherwise would have been if the Balligain red card suspension
would have been upheld. They said as much after the game,
But it still does not excuse the US men's national
team for starting the game the way they started it.
It looked to me like there was a lack of energy.
I don't even want to say arrogance. I want to
say maybe a little bit of overconfidence because of the
(17:42):
way that they had been playing in the tournament, but
also the way that Belgium had been playing in the tournament.
And I'm guilty of this just as much.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
As the next fan. Or analyst.
Speaker 9 (17:51):
I think I over indexed how well the US men's
national team had played in this World Cup in the
group stage, and then how poorly I thought had played
in their group stage games and against Senegal. That kind
of went out the window when both of these teams
met and Belgium has a ton of quality players. They
have world class players all over the field, They're well coached,
(18:12):
and they were highly motivated. So yes, a little surprising
the way the US started the game.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And played the game.
Speaker 9 (18:19):
The performance was unacceptable, but not really all that surprising
that Belgium won.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
All Right, A lot of post mortem nonsense about, oh,
the US, we just don't have the talent. I kind
of push back on that deck.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
You played at a high level.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
You look at this roster that we have, and you
look at every World Cup roster the last thirty years.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
We've never had this much talent.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
We've got guys EPL, Germany, Netherlands two guys in it,
all top leagues around the world.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
We have the talent. I don't would you agree that
talent is an issue.
Speaker 9 (18:50):
I don't think talent is an issue. I do believe
that there is some merit to the fact that a
lot of our really talented players, they don't play really
regularly for their club teams.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
You say five or six.
Speaker 9 (19:05):
Guys play regularly for their club teams, Christian Pulisic at
a Similan, Weston mckinne at Juventis, Chris Richards at Crystal Palace,
Tyler Adams at Bournemouth. But I look at also a
couple of other players on the periphery of the team.
Serginio Desk had just recovered from a major injury. Gio
Reina has all the talent in the world, and he
barely played in the Bundesliga.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
This past year.
Speaker 9 (19:26):
Malik Tillman, who I believe was our best player in
this World Cup, alongside Weston McKinney.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
He was a reserve for a big portion.
Speaker 9 (19:34):
Of the last couple of months for bayer Leverkusen.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So you go up and down the line.
Speaker 9 (19:38):
Of the players and you look at our starting eleven
specifically that played a majority of this tournament, and they're
all really talented players. Some of them are very special players.
But I look at the consistency with which they played
with their club teams and I look at that and say, yes,
they played. Some of them didn't play as consistently, but
who was really relied on to be a very important
(19:58):
piece of their club team. It might be two or
three guys at most. So while we do have talent,
while we may have the most talent that we've ever
had in our player pool, I still believe that there's
something to be said for getting that experience being accounted
on leader at your club teams to come into the
national team and carry that form over. And I also
(20:18):
think Jmack that we weren't as deep as maybe a
lot of people thought we were going into this tournament,
and I think the performance against Turkey a kind of
showed that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Well, Okay, one more before a MESSI question, so, do
you think the move is for a lot of these
guys who were playing in top leagues but maybe not
starting or being a leader a captain?
Speaker 10 (20:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Do you think the move has come back to the
MLS or playing like a second division?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Like what's the move? Not? Necessarily.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
I think each individual player has to determine what is
best for them in their career. If a player is
motivated by family, if a player is motivated motivated by finances,
if a player is motivated by playing at the highest level, possible. Well,
I played an MLS my entire career. I love MLS.
I think MLS is a bird league that's getting better
every year. But I'm not going to sit here and
(21:03):
argue that I think are best players that if they
still have the capability and quality to play at the
best clubs in Europe, I still think they should stay there.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
But it has to.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
Make sense for them from a playing time standpoint. I
would much rather have a Malie Tillman play at a
slightly smaller club than Bayer Leverkusen. But if it means
he's going to be a massive part of that club
and play Europa League minutes, play Champions League minutes, I
think that is much more valuable for players than not
playing at the biggest clubs in the world. I think
(21:33):
playing time over everything else, is more valuable.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Gotcha, all right, we got a minute left, Leonel Messi,
I'll just wind you up, man, go.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Love it.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
Yeah, Lionel Messi is the greatest player of all time,
and he is still showing the world that he is
one of the greatest players of all time. Still, even
at this World Cup, a lot of people thought, you know,
Lionel Messi came to Major League Soccer. That one is
an acknowledgment that he was going to ride off into
the sunset question marks about would he play for Argentina,
would he not play? I think that he has completely
(22:06):
buried all of those concerns, all of those fears. He
has been the best player at this World Cup. He
has galvanized, quite frankly, an Argentina team that hasn't looked
all that dominant by his other worldly displays. There's really
no other adjective you can use to describe him. It's unfathomable,
it's unthinkable. He is a genius. He potentially is an alien.
That is how fantastic he has been at this tournament.
(22:28):
And while I think France and Spain have probably looked
like the more dominant teams, they have been looked more
like the teams that I think can go on and
win this tournament.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
You can never count out Argentina and Lionel.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
MESSI be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays and newon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Here we go our number two on the Herd.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
It's me Jason McIntyre in for an under the weather
Colin Cowherd Boy how many sick days has he taken
since he moved to Chicago. Huh, it's not that big
of a deal. I just get partnered up with Rachel
Nichols and we crush it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
You know, Rachel. Hey, the audience knows. Coward's got a
big vacation coming up.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I hope Lebron holds off on his decision.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Since to seeing me.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we have a crazy track record.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
We do every summer.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
We spend a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
With Colin on vacation.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
News breaks pretty much every day, so I believe it.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So we got jovonn Buja coming up here shortly to
talk about the Lakers, My Lakers also my next Rachel,
don't need to take any digs.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I can like both. I'm allowed to.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
There are no rules, no, you're not allowed to like,
especially those two teams.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
We're not allowed to be like. Oh, my Lakers and
my Knicks. Who else are you adopting around the NBA?
They're your warriors? Also, Steph Curries, My god, how many
more teams?
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
See I've listened to you over the years. How many
more teams could you have? Jason? Maybe I'll adopt the Grizzlies.
Just kidd, I will not adopt the Grizzly all.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Right, Jovann's coming up shortly, so real quick. The World
Cup is down to the quarterfinals. Today's a day off
either tomorrow France Morocco in which should be a banger
of a game. So we got the bracket on the
screen and the staft's like, can you you want to
pick your winners? So I gave them my quarter final
winners and they're like two chalky listen.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I like Morocco a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You guys know, I built this gambling model.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
For the World Cup on Claude.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Morocco has been a cash cow Netherlands, Brazil and against Canada.
The run ends here though against France and that loaded offense,
so we could pencil in France over Morocco.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Close game, though, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Spain over Belgium. I know it's not a super hot take. Belgium,
by the way, lost central defensive midfielder to an acl
against the US in the first half. Spain's they're not
blowing people away with the offense, but the defense is
yet to concede a goal.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I mean, it is pretty phenomenal. I don't.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I haven't run the history on these two teams yet,
like when their last meeting was, but Spain is definitely
favored here.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's weird.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
About two months before the World Cup, Spain was a
heavy favorite, and then everybody bought in on France once
they started killing people.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
But people kind of forget Spain's under the radar. Hey,
Christoph Poulisk not showing up for the US. Where's lamin
ya Mal?
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I'm in a goals pool where you draft players who
score goals, and my first.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Round pick happen to be Jamal.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
He he's got one goal, so I'm not doing well
in that pool and another one one my buddies and
I created Golazo. I'm leading it with Harry Kane. But
Yamal has done nothing for Spain. I think at some
point he pops. Now let's go, let's.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Go to the bottom of the bracket.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Argentina Switzerland. I'm gonna push Argentina through. Switzerland had the
big injury to I think his name is mom Zombie.
I probably butchered that. He's twenty years old. That guy's
a stud. I thought he was their best player in
the group stage. Looks like he's gonna be out, so
I'm gonna pencil in Argentina.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
They've had two heart stoppers lately.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Listen, that game against Egypt was one for the ages.
And listen, they didn't look against Cape Verde. They're kind
of an aging squad. The coaches upset after the Cape
Verdey game, tweaked the lineup, three new starters and they
were down two nothing. So it's not a lot that
they blast Switzerland here. I do think they get to
win and advance to the semifinals. I think the match
(26:17):
of the quarterfinals England Norway, everybody's.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Fired up about it.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I'm disappointed in my family because I'm like, all right,
the US is out, guys, who are we rooting for?
And they all want Holland Earling Holland because he's this
cool Nordic machine who who's very tiktoky. Okay, I'm going England,
give me Harry Kane and Dude Bellingham. I like this
team a lot, the grit and intestinal fortitude. They showed
it in Mexico. By the way, how cool is a
(26:43):
diving header? That's so money? I've never had one in
my life, but maybe I'll join an adult league and
try to get a diving header. Bellingham is a superstar.
I'm going with England, folks. I think they take down Norway.
So now let's go to the semifinals Spain France. I
think some people we'll call this the de facto World
Cup Final. I'm going with the upset. I think Spain
(27:06):
takes them down. Give me the Spaniards, Jamal and company
beating France, and I think they will face Norway.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Not sorry, not to Norway, duh.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
They will face England. Spain against England. England shocks Messi,
Harry Kane and England. They try to go to the
final for the first time, haven't won it since nineteen
sixty six. And your World Cup champion, drum roll please England. Yes,
the club, the team, the country that I picked before
the World Cup.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I'm sticking with, sticking to my guns. That's for you, Rachel.
I think England wins it all.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
They take down Messi then take down your ma all
and there is a massive celebration in London, which is
a great city by the way.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So there's my World Cup bracket.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Couple upsets in the semis and hopefully we get as
good of a World Cup Final as we got from
France Argentina in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Jason, my allegiance is for sale right now, so your
alligience is for sale. You can tell me, yes, you're England.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I'm all in on England. Yes, all right?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
How you got under advisement?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Okay, all right, you get some time.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Got an hour and a half left, All right, Let's
go to jovonn Booja, a great NBA reporter covers the
Lakers extensively the Boujas Block podcast. You.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I know you're a big soccer guy.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I follow you on igh you know with the European background.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Who you got in the World Cup here.
Speaker 10 (28:25):
I to be honest, I've been so locked in on
NBA free agency that I've been passively watching. My wife
is from Germany, so I was rooting for Germany and
obviously that had a disappointing finish.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, all right, all right, let's get to NBA free
Let's start with the big rumor this Jonathan Kuminga and
the Lakers. Apparently JJ Reddick had a call with him
and they're trying.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
To woo him.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
What's mysterious is here is how can they afford him?
What would they give up. What are you hearing on
Kuminga and the Lakers.
Speaker 10 (28:53):
Yeah, so there is mutual interest here from the two parties.
They have had conversations throughout a free agency up to
this point.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
The Lakers can acquire him a couple of ways.
Speaker 10 (29:03):
The most straightforward way would probably be a sign in
trade with Atlanta, where the Lakers could either just take
him back if they execute.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Their moves go above the cap.
Speaker 10 (29:14):
There are some trade rules that depending on the outgoing
salary that would impact how much they could take back,
you know, in the form of Kaminga in a deal.
But they could just do a sign and trade and
add him to their roster. They could also do a
salary dump and trade some of their players Jared Vanderbilt,
Dalton connect guys like that to get off some money
(29:35):
and then just sign him in free agency create some
more cap space. So those are like the two most
straightforward ways. Technically, they could you know, extend the Walker
Kessel trade that has not been made official yet.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
They could loop in Atlanta and do it that way.
Speaker 10 (29:49):
So there are several ways that they can pursue and
execute a Jonathan Kaminga. Addition, just going to be how
much is Atlanta willing to play ball.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
What's the cost of that?
Speaker 10 (30:00):
And if, for example, you're dumping some guys too, you
could also just sign and trade. After dumping some guys,
do you still have enough assets to send Atlanta in
a potential sign in trade. So there are multiple pathways here.
But the Lakers are pursuing Jonathan Minga. They're trying to
get that starting forward that they feel like will be
that the missing piece to that starting group.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
So right now, Kaminga's at the top of their board.
So here's what I don't get.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
The Warriors could not figure out how to use Kaminga,
didn't fit in their system. They ship him to Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
He flashed.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
You could see that highlight reel got a little windy
in Atlanta when Kuminga was on the fast break. Goodness,
he's athletic. Why would the Hawks just want to move
off him? I asked somebody, and they were like, I
think they're trying to clean up their books to make
a run at Anthony Edwards when he maybe next summer
if he hates playing with LaMelo, he comes home to
Atlanta via big trade.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I don't know why would Atlanta move on from Kuminga?
Speaker 10 (30:51):
I think the big thing was the team option, where
his team option was around I think it was just
under twenty four million dollars. That's a lot of money
for him, and clearly that money is out there for
him on the market right now, so I think for
them it was a no brainer to reject that team option.
I mean, I've heard they're still interesting and potentially retaining
him depending on the number, depending on the contract. So
(31:11):
that's the possibility where this could all be a smoke
screen or some leverage and then he ends up just
staying in Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But I think there's also the opportunity.
Speaker 10 (31:19):
Where in Atlanta they have Jalen Johnson, and I think
that will most likely relegate Jonathan Kaminga to a bench
roll longer term, whereas with the Lakers, he could be
the starting four and have that starting to Walker Kessler,
Jonathan Minga, Quentin Grimes, Austin Reeves, Luka Doncic, and he
could be on the biggest stage of basketball.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Right We've seen guys.
Speaker 10 (31:40):
Go to LA on cheap deals and rehab their value,
and I think that would be a big selling point
for Kaminga would be come to LA playoff of Luca
and Austin. Imagine the shots that you're going to be getting,
the shot quality and you know, catch and shoot threes
getting out in transition. You could be a lob threat
with Luca or Austin in the pick and roll, and
we will set you up for either staying here and
(32:01):
signing something longer term as long as you can prove
that you can play more consistently, or it'll set you
up for another contract with another team.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Could he be the PJ Washington from Dallas that the
Lakers need a corner three guy who defends the hell out.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Of the wing.
Speaker 10 (32:17):
That's the vision that they are trying to sell him on,
and that they're hopeful that they will play out that way.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Now.
Speaker 10 (32:23):
I would note he has been a below average three
point shooter in four of his five seasons, so you know,
and he's really regressed. If you look at his catch
and shoot numbers, that they're at the highest the first
couple of years, then they have declined to below average
over the last three. So not like the perfect fit.
But I think that's like the vision is, can you
be the PJ Washington? Can you be the Aaron Gordon,
(32:43):
the Andrew Wiggins who comes in I think those two
are good parallels because it's like they come in their
lottery picks, are certain expectations of are those guys going
to be All stars, go to scores, but they quickly
realize with their physical gifts and their overall athleticism that
they can impact the game different ways. So you look
at Gordon was the number three guy on that Denver
team in twenty twenty three. Wiggins was the number three
(33:05):
guy and even the number two guy at times with
that Warriors team in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Could Kaminga have a career arc like that? I think so.
Speaker 10 (33:13):
He just has to buy into doing the little things
and being more of a supercharged role player rather than
a star in the making. And if he shifts his mentality,
which is a big if. I'm not like I think
it's far from a certainty. I'm just laying out the
case here for him. If he can do that, and
it might just take another stop or whatever for him
to get to that point. I think he could have
that type of impact for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
All right, let's quickly go to the Walker Kessler deal.
So it was clearly an overpay.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Everybody understands that, and we got the snow time Lakers
jokes out of the way, ha ha. But if we're
being real, I mean Yovan like Walker Kessler is a
baller when he's healthy. Obviously last season scratched it, but
you looked to two years ago. When you're talking about
offensive rebound percentage, the other one I'm spacing on, oh
(33:59):
shot block. Defensively, Walker Kessler's is exactly what you want.
He's a hybrid. He's not as athletic as Derek Lively
was in Dallas, but he's probably more athletic and a
little better than Daniel Gafford was.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I don't see why this move is being panned so much.
Speaker 10 (34:15):
I think people just don't watch a lot of Utah
Jazz basketball. But I would say on the injury front,
I think his injuries have been overblown. So the shoulder
injury last year was an issue he had been dealing
with since college and had been putting off in terms
of having the surgery because it was going to be
such a long recovery process, and with the Jazz still
tanking him in a contract year and him aggravating it,
(34:38):
they decided that Okay, it's finally time to do it.
Let's clean this up and then moving forward, you'll be fine.
So I think last year you put in its own
box to the side. The first three years, if you
actually look through his game logs at the end of
each of his first three seasons, he mysteriously stopped playing
at the end of the season over the final two
or three weeks because the Jazz held him out of games.
(34:58):
So if you look at on the surface, I think
it's like sixty seventy four, you know, sixty something in
fifty eight games. When you actually add in the games
that he missed mysteriously at the end of the season,
I think it's closer to seventy eight, seventy and sixty five.
And if you say a guy's played sixty five plus
games in his first three years, like that's pretty good
(35:20):
health for the modern MBA.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
You guys are struggling to get the seventy games.
Speaker 10 (35:24):
So I think the health stuff is overblown with him,
and has partly been because Utah was tanking. But to
your point, last time he played in a full season,
he led the NBA an offensive rebounding, He was second
in blocks, he was in the among the league leaders,
and just rebounds overall, and he's an elite finisher in
the pick and roll and around the rims. So I
know he's not maybe as flashy of a name as
(35:47):
a guy like Jalen duran who's coming off an All
Star All NBA season, But to me socially factoring the
cost in terms of the actual contract, he was a
no brainer additioned over a guy like Jalen Durham because
he's a much better defender. So this is guy I
think at his peak could be top five in the
league in field goal percentage, rebounds and blocks. Since entering
the NBA, he's allowed the second lowest field goal percentage
(36:09):
at the rim, behind only Chet Holmgren. So this is
an elite defensive anchor, rim protector who's sort of a
spid you know in Utah, kind of tucked away, no
one's really paying attention. But like he's he's very similar
to Rudy Gobert, he doesn't have the same all world,
all time upside, Like I think he could be eighty
five to ninety percent of Gobert defensively, but I think
(36:29):
he's better offensively.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
He's got better hands, better touch around the rim.
Speaker 10 (36:32):
So this is the guy I think could average easily
sixteen points twelve, twelve and a half rebounds, two and
a half blocks, and be in that like mid sixties
field goal percentage.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
So he's I think he's a stud.
Speaker 10 (36:43):
And I understand that the trade price was high, although
that's part of doing business in restricted free agency, but
the actual value, he's the tenth highest paid center, going
to be the eleventh likely after Duran, and then Wemby's
going to get his extension, So like we could be
looking at this like a year or two from now,
he's like the fifteenth highest paid cent and he's given
you top ten or top ten center value, and like
that's a great deal.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
I joked to the staff this morning, so if Anthony
Davis is Nordstrom, right, it is is Walker Kessler an
old Navy And they were like, no, no, no, he's
better than old Navy. He's like a Banana Republicer.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
So you get like, yeah, like eighty ninety Anthony Davis.
I'll take that in a heartbeat. Now, now I'm gonna
put you on the spot. Defensively, let me be clear,
not offensively.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Not offensively, Yes, yes, obviously the Spurs are better than
the Lakers. Undeniably, the thunder are better than the Lakers undeniably.
What other teams in the West right now are definitely
better than the Lakers? Definitely, And if you say LaMelo Ball,
this might be your last appearance on the show, Like,
come on, there's.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
No way that that team.
Speaker 10 (37:44):
I mean, I think I think that's the end of
the list in terms of definitely now. I I think
people are overlooking Denver a bit in terms of we'll see,
so we'll see what happens with what Cam Johnson Christian
Brown do they get off of one of those soues
to fit in Peyton Watson. I will note that last
year with Jokich, Murray and Aaron Gordon in the lineup,
(38:06):
they went twenty and six and had a night plus
nineteen net rating with those three on the floor. The
big caveat here is that Aaron Gordon can't stay healthy
anymore with several lower extremity injuries.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So that's a wild card.
Speaker 10 (38:20):
But when they were healthy and we saw some flash
remember at the end of the season on a big
win streak, they had that statement win over the Spurs, Yolkic.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Was having his way with Wemby.
Speaker 10 (38:28):
It was like they entered the playoffs with all this
momentum and it looked like they might be on a
crash collision course with the Thunder in the conference finals,
right and maybe getting past the Spurs. They obviously had
the really disappointing outcome in the first round. But no
Peyton Watson. No Aaron Gordon misposted that series. So I
think if they retain Peyton Watson, trade one of Johnson
(38:49):
or Brown, and fill out the bench, I think you
could make a.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Strong case they're still the third best team in the West.
Speaker 10 (38:54):
But you can't say it definitively. So to your point,
it's only the Thunder and Spurs, everyone else tbd, depending
have no. Yeah, yeah, the Timberwls still need a starting
four and they need more of a bench. The Rockets
are interesting, but I think we're still in a regular
season context. I don't trust them in the playoffs after
seeing how they've fared against the shorthanded Lakers. So yeah,
(39:18):
I think right now you can make a case for
the Lakers as HIGHST three, and I don't think that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
All right, thanks, So we've done ten minutes on the
Lakers and we haven't mentioned Lebron James.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
That's got to be a first in every interview. You've
ever done.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
If you had to pick a word to characterize his
ending where allegedly the Lakers did not offer him a contract.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Is ugly, too harsh? Is it amicable? How would you
characterize the end of his tenure? I mean, but between.
Speaker 10 (39:49):
But between those two I might lean like sad or
maybe disappointing of just just because of the history of
I think undeniably this was a successful tenure, especially by
modern NBA standards, where we've now had eight straight years
of different champions and like this notion that you're starting
to see if you just look at NBA history, it's
(40:11):
becoming progressively more difficult to win multiple championships during your career.
And you know, you go through like back to Russell,
and then you get to Magic and Bird and Jordan,
and then now you're getting into guys like winning two
or three rings like that is a testament to their greatness,
just based on how much parity there is across the
NBA right now and how difficult it is to sustain winning.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Like we looked at the Thunder.
Speaker 10 (40:34):
Flash back ten months ago, nine months ago, we're looking
at can the Thunder win seventy four games and win.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
A second title? Now did you see, Well you aren't.
I'll give you credit that we see, like, you know,
how the rest of the season goes.
Speaker 10 (40:49):
So I think it's like the Lakers winning a title
with Lebron just two years into his tenure there after
being the worst team in the league record wise over
that five years, missing the playoffs five straight years, Like
that I think means something. So to me, just the
way that it ended, it was a little disappointing of
(41:09):
you know, it felt like it would have been nice
to have him go out as a Laker in my opinion, right,
and just like it felt like you had become a
Laker over that time, and that they had eight years together,
but look like the relationship had run its course. I've
been saying. I felt like it was a marriage of
convenience the last two three years. I think things were
never the same after the Westbrook trade. Yeah, and like
(41:30):
that was the you know, the like just the line
of delineation in terms of the pre Westbrook trade and
post Westbrook trade in terms of their relationship. The dynamic
there is never the same after that, So I'm not
surprised by it. I think the writing was on the
wall last summer when they didn't even discuss any form
of an extension or a new contract.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
But it was a little sad for it to go
out that way. In my opinion, I.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Had a hot take that it doesn't really matter where
Lebron goes. I don't think he's putting any of these
teams over the top.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Like, if he goes to Golden State, I don't know
what it does. I think the Calves probably could use
him the most. The Philly thing doesn't make any sense
at all.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Where are you on.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
You know, the best landing spot for him? And does
he actually help? And I know that sounds bad. I
think Lebron is the goat, but at this age and
just jumping into a team that's that's just not in
his DNA.
Speaker 10 (42:28):
I think you will help, I especially like especially when
we look at the contract of regardless of like, I
don't think Lebron was a fifty million dollars player anymore
the way that he was being paid as a Laker
this past season. But if Lebron's signing a minimum contract
or a taxpayer mL at six million or the non
taxpayer mL at fifteen million, like, he's.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Far better than that.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I still think, hold on, do you think he's signing
for three million Yovan?
Speaker 10 (42:54):
No, but I mean some of the options he's looking
at as of right now they only have of that
minimum contrac to sign him. I think it's a little
bit higher. I think it's closer to four technically, but
it's still like can I.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Think there's no way he's playing for four million dollars
when Max Strews is making fifteen mil.
Speaker 10 (43:10):
Well, but but if that's all they have to offer
him like that, that's it, right. And one thing that
is of note that's important is the Lakers have officially
rescinded the rights to lebron James. So there'd been some
speculation from people of are they going to sign and
trade him and potentially recoup some assets.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
But then they could also sign him to.
Speaker 10 (43:28):
Whatever salary they wanted and just trade him to Team
X and maybe even put Bronny in that trade they
get back, like some second round picks or something, just
to get something back and to help facilitate him to
his next team at a higher salary.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Well, that's out the window.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Now.
Speaker 10 (43:43):
They had to rescind his rights. They already started making
some moves, so that's not happening. So if Lebron wherever
he ends up, it's going to be him signing as
a free agent, not via sign and trade.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
But I think, especially looking at I know, I.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Know you're a low rung episode, but hold on, before
we go to other teams rescinding his rights, why would
they do that? That's Isn't that kind of a jerk
move by them, like, hey man, we could pay trade you,
but we ain't doing that?
Speaker 10 (44:07):
Is a Roman They had to no, I mean, they
had to do that to execute their moves that they've
already started to execute. So they did the DeAndre eight
in trade. Last night they officially signed MoMu In Quentin Grimes.
So to do those moves, they needed cap space, and
with Lebron on their cap sheet with a nearly sixty
million dollars cap hold, they were not able to do
those moves. So, like the Lakers, they're kind of in
(44:29):
this whole holding pattern right now where they're trying to
pull off the Kaminga thing. They're trying to see if
they could trade for someone else if they can't get Kaminga.
But at some point they have to start actually, like
you're signing these deals and executing these moves because they're
holding up other teams, Like right now, Utah is being
held up with the Kessler deal, the Hawks are held
up to some degree with this Kminga situation. So and
(44:49):
then Lebron's holding everybody up with his free agency. So
it's like there's a lot of moving parts right now
and certain situations are being held up by a delay
in terms of decision make so the Lakers had to
do something, and part of that was rescinding Lebron's right.
So I would not classify it as that though. I
would classify it as just this. This is business and
they needed to start making some of these moves with
(45:12):
their roster.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
Okay, sorry, so let's go right out real quick. We
can wrap up with your guesses on how he would
fit with the Sixers, Warriors and Caves and what your
best your best prediction.
Speaker 10 (45:23):
Is, so right now, I would say that the buzz
is leaning Cleveland. I've been more on like Golden State
the last two three weeks because that's where I think,
if Golden State can pull off an a D trade
and they do Jimmy Butler plus a couple picks or
whatever it costs to get Anthony Davis. That to me
would be the precursor move that's indicating Lebron is coming.
If they don't do something like that, if they don't
(45:43):
land a big piece in just this roster, I would
be surprised if he goes there. So I would be
carefully cognizant of what does Golden State do. If Golden
State makes a big move, I think that could signal
that Lebron is going there. But putting them to the side,
it seems like Cleveland right now is that the leader
in the club. That's the one that behind the scenes
most NBA people are saying they're expecting him to go there,
(46:05):
that there's some buzz with that, But certainly I mean,
I think if you look at Philly and Minnesota, those
to me are the two best fits. And I understand
the skepticism with Philly just because of you have three
really four high usage guys embiid. I think you could
load manage with Lebron there, and he plays forty five
fifty games, you can limit his minutes. Lebron could even
loadvantage with them having those three guys on the perimeter,
(46:27):
who are all iron men going to play seventy plus
games with high minutes. So I think Philly like clearly
needs a power forward and just needs a little bit
more talent. Lebron could be a great fit there. Minnesota
is the one where I look at I'm like, they
need a four. Lebron is a four now at this
stage of his career, and they have the defense to
protect him and sort of let him take possessions off
(46:48):
or be in like a lower usage helper role where
you got Gobert, you got McDaniels, you got Ant, and
you got some other guys off the bench. So it's
like that to me, I think you'd be a great fit.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Now.
Speaker 10 (46:58):
Was Lebron gonna go to Minnesota as Lebron going to
go to Denver, I have a hard time seeing that,
So I do think it's probably Cleveland, Golden State, Miami, Philly.
Those would be I think right now the four teams
I'd be looking at as possibilities, and I would say,
to me, Cleveland right now is the most likely.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Just to back up to that Wizard's ad, Didn't the
Wizards say they're not doing an Anthony Davis trade?
Speaker 10 (47:21):
Well, yes, but I think that could be public posturing,
like if you get two or three first round picks
offered to you from Golden State just to take on
and expiring Jimmy Butler contract.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I think because the other thing with AD is he
wants an extension.
Speaker 10 (47:35):
So if you're keeping AD, you now have to figure
out are you going to extend him?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
What's that number?
Speaker 10 (47:41):
And if you're not interested in that, then trading him
and getting back some first round draft capital obviously makes sense.
So right now, it's smokescreen season. Everyone's putting different things
out there. Teams are posturing, but I think if they
come to you with here's Jimmy Butler's expiring contract plus
two or three first, you have to strongly consider that,
especially because that's more than they gave up for Ady Washington.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Just say, dude, you have barely played basketball in the
last two seasons. We're not extending you. You've got a
contract with this season.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Play it out. Can't they do that? Or would the
AD just be like I mean that they can. They can.
Speaker 10 (48:11):
It's obviously I mean that you just see how the
season goes and you see if Adi won't wants to
stay there or not.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
But I think the risk.
Speaker 10 (48:17):
Would obviously just be him being offended or slighted by that.
Having a good season where he bounced his back health
wise and then him just departing for nothing. So h
I think if they are if Golden State puts the
pixel on the table, I think Washington would have to
strongly consider that.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
That that would change things. Ad Lebron, Draymond. I don't
know if that's enough shooting on that team. Curry, Yeah,
the shooting is.
Speaker 10 (48:41):
It's also like my I look at Miami and Golden
State as trying to fit the front courts with like Lebron, Draymond, Ady, Lebron,
Giannis Bam love the defense with those front courts and
Lebron playing next to two really good, great defenders, and
in both cases, but the shooting there with Am and
the honest or Draymond and Ady, it's.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Pretty pretty cramped.
Speaker 10 (49:03):
So at least in Golden State you have staff the
greatest shooter of all time to help you help offset
some of the spacing concerns. But from a from a
front court perspective, offensively, it would be pretty cramped spacing
all right.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Jovan Buha, NBA reporter, great stuff as always, He's got
a YouTube.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Page, his podcast. Keep up the good work, my man,
appreciate it. Jay Mac going to see you all right.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Coming up next year on the Hurt, we have one
more Lebron topic that we're back in soccer, Just one
more Lebron. Was he misused interesting word last year? I wonder,
I wonder where that's coming from. Rachel has all the details.
Next on the Hurt,
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks
for listening to The Herd podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello, and to welcome to the Herd.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
It's me Jason McIntyre in for a sick Colin Cowherd.
He had his flu game yesterday, folks, and take it
today off. You'll be back Moniana when the soccer resumes.
It's a glorious Wednesday out here in Los Angeles. I'm
joined by Rachel Nichols. We are both enjoying the World Cup.
(00:47):
We are enjoying the NBA.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Rachel, how's your summer going so far?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
It's going well, Jas, I mean you, I'm trying to
get over Monday night. I feel like I'm finally ready
to move on.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Pick a new team. Are you gonna advise me?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I'm welly yay, that's what you have to do, right,
You have to be like this is like March madness,
all right?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
My number one pick you know. Obviously tem Usa.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Never one in my heart, didn't advance, and so now
I need a new team. Are you gonna give me
some options over the course of the show.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
At the top of next hour, I'll break down the
bracket and my team is winning it all.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Obviously. Listen, we got a loaded show.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
There's a big rumor right now hot that the Lakers
rachel are chasing a former Golden State Warrior. I think
we're gonna have a big show. But let's get started
with Leo nell Messi. Folks, I'm sure you guys like
I did yesterday, watched in amazement, jaw on the floor
watching the greatest to ever do it display all the
grit that the.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
USA didn't show.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
On Monday, Messi carries Argentina on his back from down
to nil.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
They rally to stun Egypt three to two.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
They're calling this the greatest comeback in World Cup history
because no team had ever rallied from down to this
late in the game to win in regularly, and Messi
did that with an assist and then a goal. And listen,
I'm consuming all of the content of course Instagram, there's
all these edits of Messi. You know, Messi gets sad
his PK is denied. Then he narrowly misses a free
(02:14):
k free kick, and then Messi just puts the team
on his back, goes as they like to say, god mode,
you know, and Argentina wins it.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And then he's crying on the pitch after the game.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Folks, I've watched this replay a billion times, and here's
Dereck ray on the call to get fired up. Messi's
goal to tie it.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Leonel Messi deflection there on the way through unturn the line.
Something up here. Argentina fucks check Shlenel Mersay the shavior
for Argentsita I come back when they needed it. Engineers bad,
the man regarded by so many, that's.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
The tritus of the ball.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
From the tips of despair Argentina celebrights.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I mean, honestly, I'm obsessed with the World Cup. You
guys know, soccer was my top sport growing up. I
was a pretty good player. My family had some pretty
good players back back.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
In the day.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I'll just say that.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And the World Cup is something like we never see
that's what every four years.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
And Messi's kind of leading Argentina on this old man renaissance.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I'm sure you guys have seen this in sports.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Messi's thirty nine years old, okay, and he's carrying Argentina.
He's one of the best players on the pitch at
the World Cup at thirty nine. I was told for
the longest time growing up, yep, sports are a young
man's game. Yet here's Tom Brady at forty four winning
a Super Bowl. Here's Matt Stafford at thirty eight winning
the MVP last year. Here's Lebron at forty one shattering
(03:48):
every NBA record that matters because he's still playing at.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Such a high level. Folks, we've never seen this stuff before.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I remember in two thousand and twenty two, it was December,
Messi thirty and Argentina plays that epic World Cup final
against France, and folks, Messi had two goals in that game.
They win in penalty kicks and at the end they
carry Messi off the field.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
They're throwing him in the air.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
He's got the World Cup trophy and we're saying this
is this is John Elwait times ten. Remember Elway wins
the Super Bowl and walks off into the sunset. He's done,
and everybody thought Messi was it's over. You go out
like that with a World Cup at thirty five, the
last award he needed to sinch himself as the goat.
And here he is four years later at thirty nine,
(04:34):
doing other worldly things. I'm personally as a guy who's
aging hopefully gracefully.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I love this old man renaissance.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I mean, Messi is bending free kicks. He's still just
such a sharp player.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
At this age. He is starting this new.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Thing that he's been doing for a while now where
he just walks a lot to conserve energy, walks and
walks and then in a moment, boom, he pops.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Here's Brad Friedel talking.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
About Messi and this god mode that he could go
into and take over games.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
This guy, Lionel Messi, we talk about him all the time.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean, being down two nill against.
Speaker 7 (05:10):
Seventy eight minute he blew by a guy at his age.
I mean he get isked stat sports. Once I was
around them and they were at Barcelona. I said, what's
he got? I know he's great and the skill and
all that, what's he got? And they said, he gets
up to full pace and about a step and a
half to two steps. I mean, it's just it's remarkable
this guy, and he's a leader, and he's humble, and
(05:30):
he's a driven winner.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's really incredible what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I'm sure you guys have heard of the joke because
forever there was this Cristiano Ronaldo versus Messi thing, who's
better And there's a lot of Ronaldo fans, a handsome guy,
chisel dads like the ladies love him. And the joke was,
Christiano Ronaldo is the best soccer player ever. That's because
Leonel Messi is not human. He's not from this earth.
I mean what we're seeing from this guy.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Look at the stats on the screen, folks.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Number one in goals at the World cupffected goals, goal
and goal involvements, shots, shots on target. We've never seen
anything like this. And a lot of people think Argentina's
gonna win it. You know, I built this gambling model.
They think Argentina has value currently. I don't know that
they're going to push through. But at the top of
next hour, I will break down the brackets and give
(06:18):
you my winner. Let's go from leon Al Messi, the
greatest to ever do it, and Argentina, the defending champs,
to Team USA, which fell flat on its face Monday,
losing to Belgium. For one, it's not embarrassing or bad
that we lost to Belgium, guys, that's not the problem.
The problem is how we lost. It was a gutless effort.
(06:40):
I mean, we saw no grit, no heart. You know,
you get punched in the mouth, you fall behind early
and you don't rally at all.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It was embarrassing. It really hurts. And frankly, we looked
so good our starters did in the three games. We
give up one goal to Paraguay, Australia Bosnia like Paraguay's
nothing to Scotfat they showed well after we kicked their
butts right, knocked out Germany.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
We're kind of nipping talk with France.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Even though you know, France had that game and control
one nothing and that's not bad. And where was our grit?
Why didn't we see any of that?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's what really hurts.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And you've got all these columnists and these talking heads
parachuting into soccer right and they're doing their think pieces
and their crisis management.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Oh my gosh, we're never going to be on.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
The on the level of the greats and it's the
same nonsense every four years. Well, if we could only
get the best players in America to play soccer, the
best athletes, imagine if the NBA, and it's the same dumb,
lazy nonsense. I'm really sick of it. As a soccer
guy myself, I think it's just lazy.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And here's the reality.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
We watched a Mexico team, right, Mexico's been down bad.
We've been better than Mexico for it for a close
to a decade. Now, okay, we watched Mexico fall behind
two nothing to England Jude Belling and goals like, oh wow,
it is over. Mexican fought like hell. They refuse to die.
They came back. That was a game until the end.
They lose three to two. Nobody in Mexico's disappointed that
(08:11):
they lost. How they lost. Obviously, you want to win
the game. But they fought like hell. They were excellent.
You know there was grit there. We just watched Argentina
yesterday down to nothing seventy eight minute. Oh my gosh,
it's over. Heart of a friggin champion. Messi put the
team on his back.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Arling Holland Norway against Brazil zero zero Oh well, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Brazil's got so much talent. Holland just says, I'll take this. Thanks,
bang bang, two goals.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's over.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And that's really the thing I didn't see from the
Americans that pissed me off on Monday. You know, you
fall behind one nothing, our whole team teams rattled at
the back. We didn't meet the moment, as they say
in sports. You know, there was a bit of a
distraction if you maybe heard about it in the forty
eight hours leading up. I don't know if that was
a factor, but I mean Reim was victimized on four
(09:01):
straight goals. You know, Listen, I don't want to say
I was right on ring, but I told you guys
for months leading up on this show at Tim reeen,
that's a concern of mine. Then he shows well against Paraguay.
I said, hey, Tim, Tim showed up. You know he's
solid against Bosnia. Well, you know, you step up in
class against Belgium and you get worked. So here is
Landon Donovan going after our star. I've been reluctant to
(09:23):
go after Polisic. Yet here's Landon Donovan. And listen, this
is critical and this is the treatment we give American stars,
and you know soccer's arrived in this country. When Landon
Donovan is dropping bombs like this on Polisic.
Speaker 8 (09:36):
He is who he is at this point, right, and
we want him to be more because we see the
time I've been on here talking about seeing him in
person against Bosnia, the way he moves in.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
The way shore. But that was an easy game.
Speaker 8 (09:50):
He came out of a World Cup knockout game at
home with his leg still intact. Because I'm saying this
to you, Tim, you know it, because you played with me.
You would have had to drag me off the field
and I would have punched the doctor in the face
and said, you're not taking off the field. Put whatever
you need to put in me, and I'm just staying
(10:11):
on the field.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
He's not wrong, guys, He's not And listen, I'm not
here to bash Polisic.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
But the reality is when you're in every.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Commercial during the World Cup alongside Messi and all the greats.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
You got to deliver and show up. And I think Stu.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Holden had the stat my guy, Stu Holden first five touches,
Pulisic had three turnovers.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
He did not have it. And again to go back
to England.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, Jude Bellingham said, I got this boys two goals.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
He was extraordinary.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Tracking back on defense, he cries after the match, like,
I get okay, Jason, you're being too harsh. Pulisic is
not Jude Bellingham, guys.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And that comes to this talent question.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
So Sportico, which is a really good respected business sports
business outlet, they came out with this saying, hey, the
US doesn't have elite talent. Hang and I see this headline, I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Like, that's crap. First of all, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
There's what sixteen teams listed here. We're right there in
the top sixty in the world. That's obvious, okay. And
I won't point out that Brazil and Portugal are near
the top of that list, and they haven't done Jack
squat in the World Cup in the last like five cycles,
so I don't want to four cycle, so I don't
want to hear it. Okay, we have the talent. And
again to just look at the list of leagues around
the world. You know, the US had from the Belgium
(11:26):
match three starters in the EPL. We got two guys
in the top league in Italy, top league in Germany, Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
We got dudes. Now.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
It doesn't help that of the three MLS players, one
of them was Freeze, who had probably the most embarrassing
goal giving up in this World Cup. I don't know
what the hell he was doing, Harvard guy. Not a
smart move there, buddy. And then Tim Reim, who I'm
not going to pile on. He's thirty eight years old.
But those are two MLS guys and they got exposed
against Belgium. But to say we don't have talent, Belgium
(11:54):
has five.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Starters in the EPL.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Where they've got us is depth they're coming off the
bench with.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
They didn't even play Kevin de Bruyna.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
If you know anything about soccer, that guy over the
last fifteen years has been one of the greatest players
in the world. They didn't even use him against US.
So like they've got the depth, we just don't have
that yet. But Landon Dono wom will backed me up here,
Stu Holden will. We have more talent on the US
team now than we've ever had. We've got players all
around the globe in top leagues. The talent is there.
(12:26):
Sometimes you've been the players. Sometimes you blame the coach.
I'm blaming it on grit and heart again. I watched
that match. The first minute there was a ball that
kind of was spinning out and desk was screening their
offensive player, screening to.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Let it go out. The ball goes out and.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
It's Belgium's ball in the first minute, and that was
when you could tell, is our head in the game?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
What the hell is that?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
How is nobody communicating, Hey, that's our ball?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Play it upfield.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
From that moment, it was like, oh, geez, Freeze had
to make a great save and we just spiraled. We
got punched in the mouth and there was no response.
The first time we trailed in the World Cup was
against Belgium, and we responded so poorly that you kind
of got to blame the players. I think the talent
is there. The issue was we just didn't show up
in the moment that counts. But the good news is
(13:12):
there's Copa America, there's Gold Cup. We will be back,
I think with a vengeance. In twenty thirty. All right,
we got a monster show ahead. Go to a little
Lakers talking and people are way down on the Lakers.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Two teams better than in the West.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I can't find a third, there's some Jalen Brown, Jason
Tatum murky stuff. Somebody in the morning meeting said, is
this the new Westbrook Durant. I was like, oh, fire takes,
so he got a great show coming up here on
the Hurt.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Eastern not am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Hey, this is Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire
with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing
the same tired narratives.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Down your throat every day.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest
sports headlines, accurate stats.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
To help you win big at the sportsbook, and all
the best guests.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with
Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
This is Colin Soccer Spotlight. It's brought to you by Haleyon,
the official partner of US Soccer and the maker of Censindine, Toms,
voltairean Advil, and Centrum, the brands behind your everyday wellness
wins because every goal starts with an assist on and
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Speaker 3 (14:42):
All right, let's bring in Dex McCarty, former US national
team player.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Last scene crushing it on First things first throughout the
World Cup decks. Great to have you on.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I'm just curious since you actually played at a high
level in qualifies for qualifiers for the US, when you
watch our performance against Belgium, like, there's no shame in
losing to a good team like Belgium had world class players,
but the way we lost, are you just like, oh, guys,
come on, yeah.
Speaker 9 (15:11):
That's easily the most disappointing aspect of not just losing
in a World Cup, but in a home World's Cup.
The fact that this US men's national team, they really
galvanized the entire country behind them, not just people who
love soccer or people who work in soccer, but maybe
people who don't care as much for soccer. They really
(15:34):
got involved in behind this team because of the way
that they had played throughout the tournament. They won the
games they were expected to win, but it was also
the performances that were really inspiring. The way that you
were dominating teams, scoring goals, the way you were setting records.
It was a team that you could really get behind
(15:54):
and really root for and really start to believe that
they could do something special. And so to go on
the field against Belgium and really not even get off
the bus, you don't even give yourself a chance to
win the game because of the lack of energy, the
lack of enthusiasm that you started the game with. That
for me, is going to be a lasting impression and
a lasting memory on a team that I really wanted
(16:16):
to remember as galvanizing this country to believe in soccer,
as we do every four years. But it was a
really disappointing way to go out.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
So I could take this fifty different ways, But like,
how does that kind of thing happen? Like, usually if
you consistently perform bad out of the gate, hey, it's
probably a coaching game plan issue. Do you think the
Balligan controversy in the forty eight hours leading up do
you think that had anything to.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Do with the mindset?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I mean, if the guys were on their phones, this
was like the number one story in the country above
everything else.
Speaker 9 (16:47):
Yeah, j Mac, I think you have to look at
the situation and say, it would be almost impossible for
this not to be some sort of distraction for the
US men's national team going into the game.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And I'm not saying.
Speaker 9 (17:00):
That's the reason why they started the game so poorly,
but it certainly was a distraction because everywhere you looked,
whether on social media, whether their phones getting texts from
people in their close circles, whether you looked on major
news outlets, that was what was being talked about, and
so it certainly was a part of it. It certainly
motivated Belgium a little bit more than I think they
(17:22):
otherwise would have been if the Balligain red card suspension
would have been upheld. They said as much after the game,
But it still does not excuse the US men's national
team for starting the game the way they started it.
It looked to me like there was a lack of energy.
I don't even want to say arrogance. I want to
say maybe a little bit of overconfidence because of the
(17:42):
way that they had been playing in the tournament, but
also the way that Belgium had been playing in the tournament.
And I'm guilty of this just as much.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
As the next fan. Or analyst.
Speaker 9 (17:51):
I think I over indexed how well the US men's
national team had played in this World Cup in the
group stage, and then how poorly I thought had played
in their group stage games and against Senegal. That kind
of went out the window when both of these teams
met and Belgium has a ton of quality players. They
have world class players all over the field, They're well coached,
(18:12):
and they were highly motivated. So yes, a little surprising
the way the US started the game.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And played the game.
Speaker 9 (18:19):
The performance was unacceptable, but not really all that surprising
that Belgium won.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
All Right, A lot of post mortem nonsense about, oh,
the US, we just don't have the talent. I kind
of push back on that deck.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
You played at a high level.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
You look at this roster that we have, and you
look at every World Cup roster the last thirty years.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
We've never had this much talent.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
We've got guys EPL, Germany, Netherlands two guys in it,
all top leagues around the world.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
We have the talent. I don't would you agree that
talent is an issue.
Speaker 9 (18:50):
I don't think talent is an issue. I do believe
that there is some merit to the fact that a
lot of our really talented players, they don't play really
regularly for their club teams.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
You say five or six.
Speaker 9 (19:05):
Guys play regularly for their club teams, Christian Pulisic at
a Similan, Weston mckinne at Juventis, Chris Richards at Crystal Palace,
Tyler Adams at Bournemouth. But I look at also a
couple of other players on the periphery of the team.
Serginio Desk had just recovered from a major injury. Gio
Reina has all the talent in the world, and he
barely played in the Bundesliga.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
This past year.
Speaker 9 (19:26):
Malik Tillman, who I believe was our best player in
this World Cup, alongside Weston McKinney.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
He was a reserve for a big portion.
Speaker 9 (19:34):
Of the last couple of months for bayer Leverkusen.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So you go up and down the line.
Speaker 9 (19:38):
Of the players and you look at our starting eleven
specifically that played a majority of this tournament, and they're
all really talented players. Some of them are very special players.
But I look at the consistency with which they played
with their club teams and I look at that and say, yes,
they played. Some of them didn't play as consistently, but
who was really relied on to be a very important
(19:58):
piece of their club team. It might be two or
three guys at most. So while we do have talent,
while we may have the most talent that we've ever
had in our player pool, I still believe that there's
something to be said for getting that experience being accounted
on leader at your club teams to come into the
national team and carry that form over. And I also
(20:18):
think Jmack that we weren't as deep as maybe a
lot of people thought we were going into this tournament,
and I think the performance against Turkey a kind of
showed that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Well, Okay, one more before a MESSI question, so, do
you think the move is for a lot of these
guys who were playing in top leagues but maybe not
starting or being a leader a captain?
Speaker 10 (20:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Do you think the move has come back to the
MLS or playing like a second division?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Like what's the move? Not? Necessarily.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
I think each individual player has to determine what is
best for them in their career. If a player is
motivated by family, if a player is motivated motivated by finances,
if a player is motivated by playing at the highest level, possible. Well,
I played an MLS my entire career. I love MLS.
I think MLS is a bird league that's getting better
every year. But I'm not going to sit here and
(21:03):
argue that I think are best players that if they
still have the capability and quality to play at the
best clubs in Europe, I still think they should stay there.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
But it has to.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
Make sense for them from a playing time standpoint. I
would much rather have a Malie Tillman play at a
slightly smaller club than Bayer Leverkusen. But if it means
he's going to be a massive part of that club
and play Europa League minutes, play Champions League minutes, I
think that is much more valuable for players than not
playing at the biggest clubs in the world. I think
(21:33):
playing time over everything else, is more valuable.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Gotcha, all right, we got a minute left, Leonel Messi,
I'll just wind you up, man, go.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Love it.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
Yeah, Lionel Messi is the greatest player of all time,
and he is still showing the world that he is
one of the greatest players of all time. Still, even
at this World Cup, a lot of people thought, you know,
Lionel Messi came to Major League Soccer. That one is
an acknowledgment that he was going to ride off into
the sunset question marks about would he play for Argentina,
would he not play? I think that he has completely
(22:06):
buried all of those concerns, all of those fears. He
has been the best player at this World Cup. He
has galvanized, quite frankly, an Argentina team that hasn't looked
all that dominant by his other worldly displays. There's really
no other adjective you can use to describe him. It's unfathomable,
it's unthinkable. He is a genius. He potentially is an alien.
That is how fantastic he has been at this tournament.
(22:28):
And while I think France and Spain have probably looked
like the more dominant teams, they have been looked more
like the teams that I think can go on and
win this tournament.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
You can never count out Argentina and Lionel.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
MESSI be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays and newon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Here we go our number two on the Herd.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
It's me Jason McIntyre in for an under the weather
Colin Cowherd Boy how many sick days has he taken
since he moved to Chicago. Huh, it's not that big
of a deal. I just get partnered up with Rachel
Nichols and we crush it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
You know, Rachel. Hey, the audience knows. Coward's got a
big vacation coming up.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I hope Lebron holds off on his decision.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Since to seeing me.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we have a crazy track record.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
We do every summer.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
We spend a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
With Colin on vacation.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
News breaks pretty much every day, so I believe it.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So we got jovonn Buja coming up here shortly to
talk about the Lakers, My Lakers also my next Rachel,
don't need to take any digs.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I can like both. I'm allowed to.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
There are no rules, no, you're not allowed to like,
especially those two teams.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
We're not allowed to be like. Oh, my Lakers and
my Knicks. Who else are you adopting around the NBA?
They're your warriors? Also, Steph Curries, My god, how many
more teams?
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
See I've listened to you over the years. How many
more teams could you have? Jason? Maybe I'll adopt the Grizzlies.
Just kidd, I will not adopt the Grizzly all.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Right, Jovann's coming up shortly, so real quick. The World
Cup is down to the quarterfinals. Today's a day off
either tomorrow France Morocco in which should be a banger
of a game. So we got the bracket on the
screen and the staft's like, can you you want to
pick your winners? So I gave them my quarter final
winners and they're like two chalky listen.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I like Morocco a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You guys know, I built this gambling model.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
For the World Cup on Claude.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Morocco has been a cash cow Netherlands, Brazil and against Canada.
The run ends here though against France and that loaded offense,
so we could pencil in France over Morocco.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Close game, though, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Spain over Belgium. I know it's not a super hot take. Belgium,
by the way, lost central defensive midfielder to an acl
against the US in the first half. Spain's they're not
blowing people away with the offense, but the defense is
yet to concede a goal.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I mean, it is pretty phenomenal. I don't.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I haven't run the history on these two teams yet,
like when their last meeting was, but Spain is definitely
favored here.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's weird.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
About two months before the World Cup, Spain was a
heavy favorite, and then everybody bought in on France once
they started killing people.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
But people kind of forget Spain's under the radar. Hey,
Christoph Poulisk not showing up for the US. Where's lamin
ya Mal?
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I'm in a goals pool where you draft players who
score goals, and my first.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Round pick happen to be Jamal.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
He he's got one goal, so I'm not doing well
in that pool and another one one my buddies and
I created Golazo. I'm leading it with Harry Kane. But
Yamal has done nothing for Spain. I think at some
point he pops. Now let's go, let's.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Go to the bottom of the bracket.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Argentina Switzerland. I'm gonna push Argentina through. Switzerland had the
big injury to I think his name is mom Zombie.
I probably butchered that. He's twenty years old. That guy's
a stud. I thought he was their best player in
the group stage. Looks like he's gonna be out, so
I'm gonna pencil in Argentina.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
They've had two heart stoppers lately.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Listen, that game against Egypt was one for the ages.
And listen, they didn't look against Cape Verde. They're kind
of an aging squad. The coaches upset after the Cape
Verdey game, tweaked the lineup, three new starters and they
were down two nothing. So it's not a lot that
they blast Switzerland here. I do think they get to
win and advance to the semifinals. I think the match
(26:17):
of the quarterfinals England Norway, everybody's.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Fired up about it.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I'm disappointed in my family because I'm like, all right,
the US is out, guys, who are we rooting for?
And they all want Holland Earling Holland because he's this
cool Nordic machine who who's very tiktoky. Okay, I'm going England,
give me Harry Kane and Dude Bellingham. I like this
team a lot, the grit and intestinal fortitude. They showed
it in Mexico. By the way, how cool is a
(26:43):
diving header? That's so money? I've never had one in
my life, but maybe I'll join an adult league and
try to get a diving header. Bellingham is a superstar.
I'm going with England, folks. I think they take down Norway.
So now let's go to the semifinals Spain France. I
think some people we'll call this the de facto World
Cup Final. I'm going with the upset. I think Spain
(27:06):
takes them down. Give me the Spaniards, Jamal and company
beating France, and I think they will face Norway.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Not sorry, not to Norway, duh.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
They will face England. Spain against England. England shocks Messi,
Harry Kane and England. They try to go to the
final for the first time, haven't won it since nineteen
sixty six. And your World Cup champion, drum roll please England. Yes,
the club, the team, the country that I picked before
the World Cup.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I'm sticking with, sticking to my guns. That's for you, Rachel.
I think England wins it all.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
They take down Messi then take down your ma all
and there is a massive celebration in London, which is
a great city by the way.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So there's my World Cup bracket.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Couple upsets in the semis and hopefully we get as
good of a World Cup Final as we got from
France Argentina in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Jason, my allegiance is for sale right now, so your
alligience is for sale. You can tell me, yes, you're England.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I'm all in on England. Yes, all right?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
How you got under advisement?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Okay, all right, you get some time.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Got an hour and a half left, All right, Let's
go to jovonn Booja, a great NBA reporter covers the
Lakers extensively the Boujas Block podcast. You.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I know you're a big soccer guy.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I follow you on igh you know with the European background.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Who you got in the World Cup here.
Speaker 10 (28:25):
I to be honest, I've been so locked in on
NBA free agency that I've been passively watching. My wife
is from Germany, so I was rooting for Germany and
obviously that had a disappointing finish.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, all right, all right, let's get to NBA free
Let's start with the big rumor this Jonathan Kuminga and
the Lakers. Apparently JJ Reddick had a call with him
and they're trying.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
To woo him.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
What's mysterious is here is how can they afford him?
What would they give up. What are you hearing on
Kuminga and the Lakers.
Speaker 10 (28:53):
Yeah, so there is mutual interest here from the two parties.
They have had conversations throughout a free agency up to
this point.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
The Lakers can acquire him a couple of ways.
Speaker 10 (29:03):
The most straightforward way would probably be a sign in
trade with Atlanta, where the Lakers could either just take
him back if they execute.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Their moves go above the cap.
Speaker 10 (29:14):
There are some trade rules that depending on the outgoing
salary that would impact how much they could take back,
you know, in the form of Kaminga in a deal.
But they could just do a sign and trade and
add him to their roster. They could also do a
salary dump and trade some of their players Jared Vanderbilt,
Dalton connect guys like that to get off some money
(29:35):
and then just sign him in free agency create some
more cap space. So those are like the two most
straightforward ways. Technically, they could you know, extend the Walker
Kessel trade that has not been made official yet.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
They could loop in Atlanta and do it that way.
Speaker 10 (29:49):
So there are several ways that they can pursue and
execute a Jonathan Kaminga. Addition, just going to be how
much is Atlanta willing to play ball.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
What's the cost of that?
Speaker 10 (30:00):
And if, for example, you're dumping some guys too, you
could also just sign and trade. After dumping some guys,
do you still have enough assets to send Atlanta in
a potential sign in trade. So there are multiple pathways here.
But the Lakers are pursuing Jonathan Minga. They're trying to
get that starting forward that they feel like will be
that the missing piece to that starting group.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
So right now, Kaminga's at the top of their board.
So here's what I don't get.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
The Warriors could not figure out how to use Kaminga,
didn't fit in their system. They ship him to Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
He flashed.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
You could see that highlight reel got a little windy
in Atlanta when Kuminga was on the fast break. Goodness,
he's athletic. Why would the Hawks just want to move
off him? I asked somebody, and they were like, I
think they're trying to clean up their books to make
a run at Anthony Edwards when he maybe next summer
if he hates playing with LaMelo, he comes home to
Atlanta via big trade.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I don't know why would Atlanta move on from Kuminga?
Speaker 10 (30:51):
I think the big thing was the team option, where
his team option was around I think it was just
under twenty four million dollars. That's a lot of money
for him, and clearly that money is out there for
him on the market right now, so I think for
them it was a no brainer to reject that team option.
I mean, I've heard they're still interesting and potentially retaining
him depending on the number, depending on the contract. So
(31:11):
that's the possibility where this could all be a smoke
screen or some leverage and then he ends up just
staying in Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But I think there's also the opportunity.
Speaker 10 (31:19):
Where in Atlanta they have Jalen Johnson, and I think
that will most likely relegate Jonathan Kaminga to a bench
roll longer term, whereas with the Lakers, he could be
the starting four and have that starting to Walker Kessler,
Jonathan Minga, Quentin Grimes, Austin Reeves, Luka Doncic, and he
could be on the biggest stage of basketball.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Right We've seen guys.
Speaker 10 (31:40):
Go to LA on cheap deals and rehab their value,
and I think that would be a big selling point
for Kaminga would be come to LA playoff of Luca
and Austin. Imagine the shots that you're going to be getting,
the shot quality and you know, catch and shoot threes
getting out in transition. You could be a lob threat
with Luca or Austin in the pick and roll, and
we will set you up for either staying here and
(32:01):
signing something longer term as long as you can prove
that you can play more consistently, or it'll set you
up for another contract with another team.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Could he be the PJ Washington from Dallas that the
Lakers need a corner three guy who defends the hell out.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Of the wing.
Speaker 10 (32:17):
That's the vision that they are trying to sell him on,
and that they're hopeful that they will play out that way.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Now.
Speaker 10 (32:23):
I would note he has been a below average three
point shooter in four of his five seasons, so you know,
and he's really regressed. If you look at his catch
and shoot numbers, that they're at the highest the first
couple of years, then they have declined to below average
over the last three. So not like the perfect fit.
But I think that's like the vision is, can you
be the PJ Washington? Can you be the Aaron Gordon,
(32:43):
the Andrew Wiggins who comes in I think those two
are good parallels because it's like they come in their
lottery picks, are certain expectations of are those guys going
to be All stars, go to scores, but they quickly
realize with their physical gifts and their overall athleticism that
they can impact the game different ways. So you look
at Gordon was the number three guy on that Denver
team in twenty twenty three. Wiggins was the number three
(33:05):
guy and even the number two guy at times with
that Warriors team in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Could Kaminga have a career arc like that? I think so.
Speaker 10 (33:13):
He just has to buy into doing the little things
and being more of a supercharged role player rather than
a star in the making. And if he shifts his mentality,
which is a big if. I'm not like I think
it's far from a certainty. I'm just laying out the
case here for him. If he can do that, and
it might just take another stop or whatever for him
to get to that point. I think he could have
that type of impact for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
All right, let's quickly go to the Walker Kessler deal.
So it was clearly an overpay.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Everybody understands that, and we got the snow time Lakers
jokes out of the way, ha ha. But if we're
being real, I mean Yovan like Walker Kessler is a
baller when he's healthy. Obviously last season scratched it, but
you looked to two years ago. When you're talking about
offensive rebound percentage, the other one I'm spacing on, oh
(33:59):
shot block. Defensively, Walker Kessler's is exactly what you want.
He's a hybrid. He's not as athletic as Derek Lively
was in Dallas, but he's probably more athletic and a
little better than Daniel Gafford was.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I don't see why this move is being panned so much.
Speaker 10 (34:15):
I think people just don't watch a lot of Utah
Jazz basketball. But I would say on the injury front,
I think his injuries have been overblown. So the shoulder
injury last year was an issue he had been dealing
with since college and had been putting off in terms
of having the surgery because it was going to be
such a long recovery process, and with the Jazz still
tanking him in a contract year and him aggravating it,
(34:38):
they decided that Okay, it's finally time to do it.
Let's clean this up and then moving forward, you'll be fine.
So I think last year you put in its own
box to the side. The first three years, if you
actually look through his game logs at the end of
each of his first three seasons, he mysteriously stopped playing
at the end of the season over the final two
or three weeks because the Jazz held him out of games.
(34:58):
So if you look at on the surface, I think
it's like sixty seventy four, you know, sixty something in
fifty eight games. When you actually add in the games
that he missed mysteriously at the end of the season,
I think it's closer to seventy eight, seventy and sixty five.
And if you say a guy's played sixty five plus
games in his first three years, like that's pretty good
(35:20):
health for the modern MBA.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
You guys are struggling to get the seventy games.
Speaker 10 (35:24):
So I think the health stuff is overblown with him,
and has partly been because Utah was tanking. But to
your point, last time he played in a full season,
he led the NBA an offensive rebounding, He was second
in blocks, he was in the among the league leaders,
and just rebounds overall, and he's an elite finisher in
the pick and roll and around the rims. So I
know he's not maybe as flashy of a name as
(35:47):
a guy like Jalen duran who's coming off an All
Star All NBA season, But to me socially factoring the
cost in terms of the actual contract, he was a
no brainer additioned over a guy like Jalen Durham because
he's a much better defender. So this is guy I
think at his peak could be top five in the
league in field goal percentage, rebounds and blocks. Since entering
the NBA, he's allowed the second lowest field goal percentage
(36:09):
at the rim, behind only Chet Holmgren. So this is
an elite defensive anchor, rim protector who's sort of a
spid you know in Utah, kind of tucked away, no
one's really paying attention. But like he's he's very similar
to Rudy Gobert, he doesn't have the same all world,
all time upside, Like I think he could be eighty
five to ninety percent of Gobert defensively, but I think
(36:29):
he's better offensively.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
He's got better hands, better touch around the rim.
Speaker 10 (36:32):
So this is the guy I think could average easily
sixteen points twelve, twelve and a half rebounds, two and
a half blocks, and be in that like mid sixties
field goal percentage.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
So he's I think he's a stud.
Speaker 10 (36:43):
And I understand that the trade price was high, although
that's part of doing business in restricted free agency, but
the actual value, he's the tenth highest paid center, going
to be the eleventh likely after Duran, and then Wemby's
going to get his extension, So like we could be
looking at this like a year or two from now,
he's like the fifteenth highest paid cent and he's given
you top ten or top ten center value, and like
that's a great deal.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
I joked to the staff this morning, so if Anthony
Davis is Nordstrom, right, it is is Walker Kessler an
old Navy And they were like, no, no, no, he's
better than old Navy. He's like a Banana Republicer.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
So you get like, yeah, like eighty ninety Anthony Davis.
I'll take that in a heartbeat. Now, now I'm gonna
put you on the spot. Defensively, let me be clear,
not offensively.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Not offensively, Yes, yes, obviously the Spurs are better than
the Lakers. Undeniably, the thunder are better than the Lakers undeniably.
What other teams in the West right now are definitely
better than the Lakers? Definitely, And if you say LaMelo Ball,
this might be your last appearance on the show, Like,
come on, there's.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
No way that that team.
Speaker 10 (37:44):
I mean, I think I think that's the end of
the list in terms of definitely now. I I think
people are overlooking Denver a bit in terms of we'll see,
so we'll see what happens with what Cam Johnson Christian
Brown do they get off of one of those soues
to fit in Peyton Watson. I will note that last
year with Jokich, Murray and Aaron Gordon in the lineup,
(38:06):
they went twenty and six and had a night plus
nineteen net rating with those three on the floor. The
big caveat here is that Aaron Gordon can't stay healthy
anymore with several lower extremity injuries.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So that's a wild card.
Speaker 10 (38:20):
But when they were healthy and we saw some flash
remember at the end of the season on a big
win streak, they had that statement win over the Spurs, Yolkic.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Was having his way with Wemby.
Speaker 10 (38:28):
It was like they entered the playoffs with all this
momentum and it looked like they might be on a
crash collision course with the Thunder in the conference finals,
right and maybe getting past the Spurs. They obviously had
the really disappointing outcome in the first round. But no
Peyton Watson. No Aaron Gordon misposted that series. So I
think if they retain Peyton Watson, trade one of Johnson
(38:49):
or Brown, and fill out the bench, I think you
could make a.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Strong case they're still the third best team in the West.
Speaker 10 (38:54):
But you can't say it definitively. So to your point,
it's only the Thunder and Spurs, everyone else tbd, depending
have no. Yeah, yeah, the Timberwls still need a starting
four and they need more of a bench. The Rockets
are interesting, but I think we're still in a regular
season context. I don't trust them in the playoffs after
seeing how they've fared against the shorthanded Lakers. So yeah,
(39:18):
I think right now you can make a case for
the Lakers as HIGHST three, and I don't think that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
All right, thanks, So we've done ten minutes on the
Lakers and we haven't mentioned Lebron James.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
That's got to be a first in every interview. You've
ever done.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
If you had to pick a word to characterize his
ending where allegedly the Lakers did not offer him a contract.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Is ugly, too harsh? Is it amicable? How would you
characterize the end of his tenure? I mean, but between.
Speaker 10 (39:49):
But between those two I might lean like sad or
maybe disappointing of just just because of the history of
I think undeniably this was a successful tenure, especially by
modern NBA standards, where we've now had eight straight years
of different champions and like this notion that you're starting
to see if you just look at NBA history, it's
(40:11):
becoming progressively more difficult to win multiple championships during your career.
And you know, you go through like back to Russell,
and then you get to Magic and Bird and Jordan,
and then now you're getting into guys like winning two
or three rings like that is a testament to their greatness,
just based on how much parity there is across the
NBA right now and how difficult it is to sustain winning.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Like we looked at the Thunder.
Speaker 10 (40:34):
Flash back ten months ago, nine months ago, we're looking
at can the Thunder win seventy four games and win.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
A second title? Now did you see, Well you aren't.
I'll give you credit that we see, like, you know,
how the rest of the season goes.
Speaker 10 (40:49):
So I think it's like the Lakers winning a title
with Lebron just two years into his tenure there after
being the worst team in the league record wise over
that five years, missing the playoffs five straight years, Like
that I think means something. So to me, just the
way that it ended, it was a little disappointing of
(41:09):
you know, it felt like it would have been nice
to have him go out as a Laker in my opinion, right,
and just like it felt like you had become a
Laker over that time, and that they had eight years together,
but look like the relationship had run its course. I've
been saying. I felt like it was a marriage of
convenience the last two three years. I think things were
never the same after the Westbrook trade. Yeah, and like
(41:30):
that was the you know, the like just the line
of delineation in terms of the pre Westbrook trade and
post Westbrook trade in terms of their relationship. The dynamic
there is never the same after that, So I'm not
surprised by it. I think the writing was on the
wall last summer when they didn't even discuss any form
of an extension or a new contract.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
But it was a little sad for it to go
out that way. In my opinion, I.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Had a hot take that it doesn't really matter where
Lebron goes. I don't think he's putting any of these
teams over the top.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Like, if he goes to Golden State, I don't know
what it does. I think the Calves probably could use
him the most. The Philly thing doesn't make any sense
at all.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Where are you on.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
You know, the best landing spot for him? And does
he actually help? And I know that sounds bad. I
think Lebron is the goat, but at this age and
just jumping into a team that's that's just not in
his DNA.
Speaker 10 (42:28):
I think you will help, I especially like especially when
we look at the contract of regardless of like, I
don't think Lebron was a fifty million dollars player anymore
the way that he was being paid as a Laker
this past season. But if Lebron's signing a minimum contract
or a taxpayer mL at six million or the non
taxpayer mL at fifteen million, like, he's.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Far better than that.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I still think, hold on, do you think he's signing
for three million Yovan?
Speaker 10 (42:54):
No, but I mean some of the options he's looking
at as of right now they only have of that
minimum contrac to sign him. I think it's a little
bit higher. I think it's closer to four technically, but
it's still like can I.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Think there's no way he's playing for four million dollars
when Max Strews is making fifteen mil.
Speaker 10 (43:10):
Well, but but if that's all they have to offer
him like that, that's it, right. And one thing that
is of note that's important is the Lakers have officially
rescinded the rights to lebron James. So there'd been some
speculation from people of are they going to sign and
trade him and potentially recoup some assets.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
But then they could also sign him to.
Speaker 10 (43:28):
Whatever salary they wanted and just trade him to Team
X and maybe even put Bronny in that trade they
get back, like some second round picks or something, just
to get something back and to help facilitate him to
his next team at a higher salary.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Well, that's out the window.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Now.
Speaker 10 (43:43):
They had to rescind his rights. They already started making
some moves, so that's not happening. So if Lebron wherever
he ends up, it's going to be him signing as
a free agent, not via sign and trade.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
But I think, especially looking at I know, I.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Know you're a low rung episode, but hold on, before
we go to other teams rescinding his rights, why would
they do that? That's Isn't that kind of a jerk
move by them, like, hey man, we could pay trade you,
but we ain't doing that?
Speaker 10 (44:07):
Is a Roman They had to no, I mean, they
had to do that to execute their moves that they've
already started to execute. So they did the DeAndre eight
in trade. Last night they officially signed MoMu In Quentin Grimes.
So to do those moves, they needed cap space, and
with Lebron on their cap sheet with a nearly sixty
million dollars cap hold, they were not able to do
those moves. So, like the Lakers, they're kind of in
(44:29):
this whole holding pattern right now where they're trying to
pull off the Kaminga thing. They're trying to see if
they could trade for someone else if they can't get Kaminga.
But at some point they have to start actually, like
you're signing these deals and executing these moves because they're
holding up other teams, Like right now, Utah is being
held up with the Kessler deal, the Hawks are held
up to some degree with this Kminga situation. So and
(44:49):
then Lebron's holding everybody up with his free agency. So
it's like there's a lot of moving parts right now
and certain situations are being held up by a delay
in terms of decision make so the Lakers had to
do something, and part of that was rescinding Lebron's right.
So I would not classify it as that though. I
would classify it as just this. This is business and
they needed to start making some of these moves with
(45:12):
their roster.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
Okay, sorry, so let's go right out real quick. We
can wrap up with your guesses on how he would
fit with the Sixers, Warriors and Caves and what your
best your best prediction.
Speaker 10 (45:23):
Is, so right now, I would say that the buzz
is leaning Cleveland. I've been more on like Golden State
the last two three weeks because that's where I think,
if Golden State can pull off an a D trade
and they do Jimmy Butler plus a couple picks or
whatever it costs to get Anthony Davis. That to me
would be the precursor move that's indicating Lebron is coming.
If they don't do something like that, if they don't
(45:43):
land a big piece in just this roster, I would
be surprised if he goes there. So I would be
carefully cognizant of what does Golden State do. If Golden
State makes a big move, I think that could signal
that Lebron is going there. But putting them to the side,
it seems like Cleveland right now is that the leader
in the club. That's the one that behind the scenes
most NBA people are saying they're expecting him to go there,
(46:05):
that there's some buzz with that, But certainly I mean,
I think if you look at Philly and Minnesota, those
to me are the two best fits. And I understand
the skepticism with Philly just because of you have three
really four high usage guys embiid. I think you could
load manage with Lebron there, and he plays forty five
fifty games, you can limit his minutes. Lebron could even
loadvantage with them having those three guys on the perimeter,
(46:27):
who are all iron men going to play seventy plus
games with high minutes. So I think Philly like clearly
needs a power forward and just needs a little bit
more talent. Lebron could be a great fit there. Minnesota
is the one where I look at I'm like, they
need a four. Lebron is a four now at this
stage of his career, and they have the defense to
protect him and sort of let him take possessions off
(46:48):
or be in like a lower usage helper role where
you got Gobert, you got McDaniels, you got Ant, and
you got some other guys off the bench. So it's
like that to me, I think you'd be a great fit.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Now.
Speaker 10 (46:58):
Was Lebron gonna go to Minnesota as Lebron going to
go to Denver, I have a hard time seeing that,
So I do think it's probably Cleveland, Golden State, Miami, Philly.
Those would be I think right now the four teams
I'd be looking at as possibilities, and I would say,
to me, Cleveland right now is the most likely.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Just to back up to that Wizard's ad, Didn't the
Wizards say they're not doing an Anthony Davis trade?
Speaker 10 (47:21):
Well, yes, but I think that could be public posturing,
like if you get two or three first round picks
offered to you from Golden State just to take on
and expiring Jimmy Butler contract.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I think because the other thing with AD is he
wants an extension.
Speaker 10 (47:35):
So if you're keeping AD, you now have to figure
out are you going to extend him?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
What's that number?
Speaker 10 (47:41):
And if you're not interested in that, then trading him
and getting back some first round draft capital obviously makes sense.
So right now, it's smokescreen season. Everyone's putting different things
out there. Teams are posturing, but I think if they
come to you with here's Jimmy Butler's expiring contract plus
two or three first, you have to strongly consider that,
especially because that's more than they gave up for Ady Washington.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Just say, dude, you have barely played basketball in the
last two seasons. We're not extending you. You've got a
contract with this season.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Play it out. Can't they do that? Or would the
AD just be like I mean that they can. They can.
Speaker 10 (48:11):
It's obviously I mean that you just see how the
season goes and you see if Adi won't wants to
stay there or not.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
But I think the risk.
Speaker 10 (48:17):
Would obviously just be him being offended or slighted by that.
Having a good season where he bounced his back health
wise and then him just departing for nothing. So h
I think if they are if Golden State puts the
pixel on the table, I think Washington would have to
strongly consider that.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
That that would change things. Ad Lebron, Draymond. I don't
know if that's enough shooting on that team. Curry, Yeah,
the shooting is.
Speaker 10 (48:41):
It's also like my I look at Miami and Golden
State as trying to fit the front courts with like Lebron, Draymond, Ady, Lebron,
Giannis Bam love the defense with those front courts and
Lebron playing next to two really good, great defenders, and
in both cases, but the shooting there with Am and
the honest or Draymond and Ady, it's.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Pretty pretty cramped.
Speaker 10 (49:03):
So at least in Golden State you have staff the
greatest shooter of all time to help you help offset
some of the spacing concerns. But from a from a
front court perspective, offensively, it would be pretty cramped spacing
all right.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Jovan Buha, NBA reporter, great stuff as always, He's got
a YouTube.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Page, his podcast. Keep up the good work, my man,
appreciate it. Jay Mac going to see you all right.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Coming up next year on the Hurt, we have one
more Lebron topic that we're back in soccer, Just one
more Lebron. Was he misused interesting word last year? I wonder,
I wonder where that's coming from. Rachel has all the details.
Next on the Hurt,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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