Colin is joined by Matt Mosley, Cowboys insider and host of the Doomsday Podcast.
They start by revisiting the Micah Parsons trade, and discuss Micah’s role as a leader in the Cowboys locker room and why leadership didn’t come naturally to him (3:30). They break down how the Cowboys will use their prized rookie safety Caleb Downs and Matt explains why Downs could become one of their best defensive players but shouldn’t be expected to be the savior for the defense (8:15).
They discuss Brian Schottenheimer outperforming expectations in the 2025 season, and what his secret sauce is as head coach (12:00). They laud Dak Prescott for his leadership skills and his ability to rise above the pressure of playing quarterback for the Cowboys (16:15).
Matt breaks down the relationship between Cowboys fans and owner Jerry Jones during their decades-long Super Bowl drought (27:30), and they discuss Tony Romo’s recent troubles in his personal life and with CBS, and Matt shares some fun personal anecdotes about his times hanging out with Tony (32:00).
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
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He's my friend, Good to see you, Matt Moseley, Doomsday
Podcast with ed order. You can go ahead and knock
down that shot. Whatever that thing is in your cup.
You got something a little tasty on a go ahead
(02:09):
and knocked that down with.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Coffee, laughter, coffee. Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm not making any judgments. Hey, I was thinking about
you today. I was on the train coming home and
I knew you and I were going to do a podcast,
and you.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Know I pushed back famously.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Now on the Micah Parsons trade, I said, take a
deep breath, Dallas, Jerry is an executive and a maverick
and an entrepreneur. He just wants flexibility. He wants those
draft picks from Micah. Just hold off. This may work. Well. Hell,
we're a year out from the trade. It looks like
Dallas won it. Let me ask you this. So, when
(02:50):
when Mike Hah got traded, I immediately called two executives
and they're like, listen, Mike is a splash player. He's
not great against the run. I've got great effort, great flexibility.
They tried him at linebacker. He didn't have kind of
quick reaction in quick eyes. He is a see quarterback.
Go get him blow stuff up. And they're like, he
(03:13):
is great at that, like Hall of Fame level great
at that. But they're like, listen, he's not completely well
rounded there. You know, he has been kind of devoured
in a couple of playoff games against elite tackles, and
so like, Mike is good, but the Cowboys had flexibility.
Let me ask you, though, Dak Prescott I think is
(03:36):
really popular in the room and many great pop players
in the NFL are popular in the room. Was Micah
popular among teammates. I have a feeling he was among some,
but not all.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, Micah had this childlike quality about him. I do
think some people were drawn to him. I think he
worked as hard as any young guy I've ever seen
at playing leader at like trying to have leadership attributes
(04:14):
and really wanted to be It was not natural to him.
The one thing I'll say is he did position himself
after Dames, even during horrible seasons, and he was not
going to slink out of there. Trayvon Diggs, some of
those guys, they were slinking right on out. So I
(04:38):
think he had the makings of some leadership. I think
the way he handled like that thing could have gone
either way. I think Dak and other teammates and CD
were willing to have his back. You've never seen anybody
handle a holdout slash hold in worse than Micah. Parsons
(05:00):
and Jerry didn't help because Jerry was in some kind
of weird battle with the agent. Jerry showed up the
agent who has ended up becoming like a huge NFL agent,
and so that didn't none of it helped. But Jerry
because of his charm and I've heard you talk about
(05:20):
this before, but he always relies on that and he
thinks that that will always win the day. And he
tried to do that with Micah and he embarrassed Micah
because in the end he Jerry basically made it out
like Micah agreed to a deal and you guys aren't
(05:42):
honoring the deal Micah agreed upon, and then it turned
into a mess. So Mike is a lot of things.
I think he could have been a fine leader, Like
if you're a great enough player like where he was
headed and where he already was, you just have such
a huge head start that most people will follow you.
(06:03):
But now he worked at it. Now. The problem for him, though,
and that's why other people would leave like the DeMarcus
Lawrence and take shots at him, is because he was
a big podcast. You know, he was a big let's
and boy, that's not always a great look if you're
having a horrible season and then Monday you're doing your
pod and you're goofing around and all of that, and
(06:25):
that didn't always play well in the locker room. But
I will say he tried. He just had the most
disastrous hold in you've ever seen to the point where
he was like napping on a training tape during the preseason.
That's about as bad as it gets. Remember it.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
How is Caleb Downs? I mean, I think it's universally
believed that he was the steel of the draft. He
could have easily gone the year before in the top
fifteen picks. Just a tremendous player for Ohio State. How's
he looked in camp?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
She looked really good. He's looked versatile. I think for now,
I think I think they're going to have to decide,
you know, I think they want to use him in
a lot of different areas, but you don't want you
want him to be I thought that was interesting that
Nick Saban said play him back off the line of scrimmage,
(07:20):
like he's a great safety. I think the Cowboys love
this idea of him being a slot corner and being
so unbelievably versatile, and I think he is that guy.
I mean against the faster, I mean like the seed
lambs of the world who line up in a slot
and actually some guys that have some size because he
(07:40):
is not very big. No, he's gonna have some struggles,
so you know, I think it'll be about like putting
him in the right situations. That said, you know I
I I think I think he is capable of becoming,
you know, one of their best players. I would say
(08:01):
to ask him to be that day one is a
little much. And I sometime since watching some of these
training camp practices and I'll be out there soon. In
the middle of all that, I think a lot is
being I mean, you know, you hear it over and over.
The Cowboys got this unbelievable draft pick, maybe the safest
(08:25):
pick in the draft. Like being asked to be the
savior of what was historically horrible defense is a lot
to ask of a safety. Think about that. We don't
usually hear of a safety being drafted and just like, oh,
this guy's going to be I mean, when was the
(08:45):
last somebody that came in. I remember Jalen Ramsey. Ramsey
coming into the league and the Cowboys were deciding between
him and Zeke Elliott and they took Zeke back in
twenty sixteen. But it's not often you need a cornerback
or a safety to be your leader day one. It's
not a great situation. Yeah, now fortunately they have Quinn
(09:08):
Williams and some others. But I think right now they're
expecting huge things from downs and that worries me to
a certain extent.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yes, I was talking to a GM in the last
week and he said safety is the hardest position to
scout as a general manager in the NFL. He goes,
sometimes you can watch two hours of film and they're,
you know, they're never they never make a play. He goes,
you know, they can face a physical team there with
a line of scrimmage. The next week they play a
(09:41):
you know, a rpo team, he said. He said, it's
really really hard to scout safety's in college. He said,
Kyle Hamilton is one he looked at. Kyle was great.
People forget ed Reid went late first round, like, so
it's no. I think Caleb's a really special player in
my take. So it has been on an me small
but instinctive, and I think safety is one of those
(10:02):
center field positions where instinct matters a lot. Do you,
I think, almost to a person the Brian Schottenheimer higher
was puzzling he was not being interviewed for top OC jobs.
Jerry gives him the job, and I think, you know,
the Cowboys record wasn't great. But I think by and
(10:22):
large I can acknowledge. Listen, the offense was good, his
side of the ball was good. You can't blame him
for defense. Is there a secret sauce with shots Shotty?
Is there is there kind of a thing he does
maybe that I don't recognize or unless you're in the building.
Jerry saw it. Jerry Jones obviously saw it, but maybe
(10:46):
outsiders don't see it.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Jerry is enambered with like he would always I mean,
even back to parcels his Jerry would always say his
people skills, his people skills will I mean, Bill would
just grind on people and so his people's skills they
were there. But it also involved like huge sarcasm. That's
(11:11):
not Shottenheimer. Now, Schottenheimer is a much better like I
think if we got Dak to be really honest, he
would just say yeah. I mean, like dealing with Mike
McCarty on a daily basis and dealing with Shoddy is
like night and day. Not that he dislikes McCarthy at all,
but McCarty is more in tune with the modern player,
(11:37):
more in tune with like building this incredible culture, being
one of the guys, maybe even occasionally having a drink
with some of the guys. And again, none of those
things matter if you start losing in all of that,
I think the thing that validated the hiring of Shoddy
was the offense being great, Pickens year one being off
(12:00):
the charts, and now the makings of the best. I mean,
I don't know if it's the best, but from a
wide receiver trio standpoint, and even with Flinoy pretty good,
they're pretty it's pretty unbelievable and and Pickens has sort
of that. Okay, So that's when you give a guy
(12:21):
like Shoddy credit because this Pickings thing could have gone
either way. And I think Shody got in his ear
and just said, I'll do anything for you. You know,
I'll run, I'll I'll try to negotiate the deal for you,
but I need you to show up. I need you
to be here at these mandatory things, and I need
you to I need, I mean, I really need. I
(12:43):
can't have I mean shot. He got undermined in a
hurry by Micah and then and then that thing got
ugly and then Evra Flus God love him. A week
before the season. I'm sorry, buddy guy, that you had
like planned your whole defense around. Oh, you're not gonna
(13:03):
have them. Let's remember Quinnon wasn't there from day one.
Quinnin was a haymaker. Let's try to get them some
help like they have they had to do. The interesting
thing about Jerry right now is that he seems more willing.
In the past, Jerry liked to wait and then have
to go get like Amari, you know, five or six
(13:26):
weeks in the season when they were losing, the season
was falling apart, and they were either two and four
or three and four whatever. Jerry seems to be of
the mindset right now is we could be really good.
Let's go get somebody. Now, Let's go get somebody to
add in here now now, you know. The thing I've
kind of been trying to keep an eye on is like,
(13:48):
how will Pickens take it? If it's like, okay, they're
gonna like give up more draft capital or more players
or whatever to go get a pass rusher, and then
Quinn Williams gets thirty five million dollars a year, and
I mean Pickens is getting what twenty eight million for
(14:08):
one season? Yeah, eight, and so it does have to
occur to him. It's like, Okay, they're kind of going
after all these people and taking care of all these people,
but not taking care of me. But again, I got
off track a little bit, but I brought that up
to say Shoddy was responsible, I think, and really helpful
(14:30):
in getting Pickens to kind of be calm through this
whole thing and to understand that, hey, a one year
franchise tag is not the end of the world. And
by the way, they've done this with Dak, like it's
not like he's the first player they've ever tried to
do the franchise tag thing with.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, I think Dak is so universally respected in the building.
I mean, the Cowboys is a high maintenance job to
play quarterback. I think I don't know, I'm not in
that building, but they're I mean, most of your great
Cowboy quarterbacks Staubach, Aikman, and Dak, they're one common thread
is they had absolutely great leadership skills. I mean Staubach
(15:13):
was more mobile, Aikman was more pocket Dak doesn't have
a huge arm. All of them are great leaders. So
I mean that's always just been kind of the Cowboy
quarterbacks like just they're like I mean Navy for you know,
Staubach I mean Aikman NFL films legendary calling out coaches
and players. I mean, you're at practice. I think Dak
(15:33):
is one of those guys in this league and there
may not be twenty five at any one time that
literally every player in the league respects him. Would that
be accurate?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, I think it is accurate, and it's it's you know,
I tried to make that point to you for years
when you were kind of like a little bit iffy
on Dak, And I mean you've said that even recently,
that it took you a while to kind of come
around on him. But it was like the thing with
or these all these intangibles and things that are sort
of hard to measure, those things did not always match
(16:07):
up with what was happening on the field. I think
the thing for some of us that's been weird with
Dak's career is that he overcame, like fourth round pick
steps in for Romo. Romo gets hurt, Romo never gets
his job back, may not get this other job back,
but he this was an amazing thing for us that
(16:31):
had a front row view to that to watch. And
what's really interesting too, in bringing up Romo, if you
go back there when Romo took over as a starter
in two thousand and six for two quarterback. How many
years is that? Twenty years? For twenty years, Jerry and
the Cowboys have lucked into quarterbacks because if they did not,
(16:56):
Romo is undrafted as Sean Payton and David Lee another
coach kind of wanted and in Romo, I was like,
I mean, that was amazing, and they wanted the people
they wanted instead of dak Are. It's kind of embarrassing.
Like there's a guy from Michigan steak at a state
I think his name was Connor Cook. There was that
guy that went to the Broncos that was like six
(17:17):
or eight or something or maybe that's the guy that.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Was yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
It wasn't Brock, but it was post Brock, but it
was somebody that was just like, oh, Michael.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Paxton, Paxton Lynch.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I feel like all these people that I'm mentioning are
like Michigan State people. But anyway, they they just for
twenty years they lucked into quarterbacks and.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Danny White, I mean, you can go a long way.
Stabauch Clint Longley on a Thanksgiving Day against Washington, remember
that they had Danny White was I think Arizona State,
I think I'm not sure. No, they've always done quarterback well.
I've said this before. The Bengals and the Chargers have
always done quarterback well. Like there are these organizations that
(18:03):
just get I mean, Cincinnati's cheap. Their scouting departments always
felt like at second tier you can go back to
Ken Anderson, Boomer Asiason, Andy Dalton won the division, Joe Burrow,
like certain Cowboys have always gotten quarterback run by.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Look though, I mean you know, in the from the
draft process because they they backed into those quarterbacks. Now,
once they got there, they made the best of it.
And like based on where he came from and how
he was thought of, Romo, I mean, his career was
insanely good. Uh and Dak is the same. But the
thing is, and you've made this point plenty of times,
(18:42):
but when you play that position for the Cowboys and
it's shortstopped for the Yankees and everything, at some point
it wears off, like, oh, mysh, this is an incredible story.
He's exceeded expectations. No, at some point you're the quarterback
for the Cowboys. So those expectations of eight men and
all back are there, and I find it fascinating that
(19:05):
Dak did decide to come to camp this year with
the Super Bowl thirty t shirt. Now, again, these people
have not sniffed an NFC title in thirty years. They
have not made it there. So it's funny to me
that they want to bring up the Super Bowl. It's like, guys,
(19:26):
just get to a conference championship game, like, do something
along those lines. Think about it. Even during all these
pretty good teams the Cowboys have had, they've only been
close to an NFC title game twice, once in two
thousand and seven against the Giants and once in the
did he catch it? Did he not catch it? Des
Bryant game against Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay when Mike
(19:48):
McCarthy was the head coach of Green Bay. Twice in
thirty years. So anyway, I get a little these, you know,
and I know the writers get caught up in it.
And believe me, when I get to Oxnard and Ventura
and those beat those breezes start to hit me, I
start to do that kind of stuff, Oh could this
(20:09):
be the year? But when I get removed from it,
I do have all these years of perspective that tell
me this is kind of ridiculous that they're even talking
about it now. Dak is very interesting to me because
he just turned thirty three and he's arrived at camp
and you saw it. Jory Epstein Albert Breer had a
(20:31):
story today, who's a good friend of ours, and Dak
is just it's a very interesting not that Dak's I'm
not saying Dak's never dropped a exploitive or something, but man,
it's this. It's this John Wayne Bravado, I'm not gonna
hide it anymore. We got we got what we need here.
(20:54):
Jerry's got a sense of urgency. I've got a sense
of urgency. And he all that said in one of
these stories I was reading this morning from Dak that
like Jerry, you know, Jerry gave me He didn't say
it exactly like this, but what he was getting at
he you know, we had this great offense I put
up like some of my best numbers ever, and they
rolled out one of the worst defenses ever. And so
(21:18):
now it seems to be a respectable looking defense to
the point where like today's reaction from a joint practice
with the Rams is like, oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
They they held up, and Stafford and Bennett and all
the Rams who last year just sliced and diced them
(21:39):
did not do that. And somebody named like Justin Barron
had three interceptions for the Cowboys today a linebacker. So
it's a different feeling around these Cowboys team. But I
just I just want to remind you that this is
the time when everybody's always excited about the Cowboys, and
(22:00):
then generally the season starts and it doesn't always go
the way you think it's going to go. I do
think they have a little bit better foundation right now
than they usually do.
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Speaker 1 (23:03):
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Speaker 2 (23:09):
When you're around Jerry, because you know Jerry's like there
was a poll a couple of years ago among Cowboy
fans and they kind of blamed Jerry, And we're not
a super Bowl team. How is Jerry? Does he get
cat calls when he's at Cowboy camp from Cowboy fans?
How is I mean if he had three straight Super Bowls,
he'd be treated, you know, at a different light. Owners
(23:29):
are always popular when the team's winning. But Jerry, I
mean this drought a lot of people point to Jerry
and say his ego in vanity is the primary culprit.
How is he treated? Have you ever been in public
with him around Cowboy fans? Does he get cat calls
or is it respectful?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I would say if the fans have been overserved a
little bit there, they might get after him, but it's
still mainly on the road the cat calls come. You
saw him infamously last year flips some fans off or
was that two years ago? Sometime recently they caught him
(24:05):
doing that. It's not it's pretty respectful. I would imagine.
There are times I've seen him in interesting social situations
and for the most part, and he is just he
loves it. He loves being approached, and he is the
most approachable owner in probably all the professional sports. And
(24:28):
you know what would be hilarious would be at the skybar.
I was always shocked. I guess that was maybe pre
you being out in LA but you would have really
enjoyed some of those parties because it was fun because
you'd get these one on one like great moments with
Jerry and you'd have a rope up right where it's
like supposed to be just the media and Jerry and
(24:50):
al Michaels might stop by. You know, there would be
people that would stop by, and by the end of
the night, Colin, everybody in the place was an him
the entire because everybody had been like looking up there, Oh,
Jerry Jones is up there. The ropes or whatever had
been let down and the masses had come around. So
(25:11):
whether it's negative positive, you know, he's one of those
that love it, and it's just been it's been interesting
for all these years. Now think about that. For the
past I was thinking about this with losing Don Nelson,
which is a really sad thing that happened recently. But
you know, Nelson was hired before Mark Cuban. So in
Dallas we had for twenty for about twenty five years,
(25:35):
including Cuban, and then of course back to nineteen eighty
nine with Jerry, we've had these crazy, over the top
loud owners and so it's been a lot of fun.
But for the most part, I don't think he gets
it too much from the Cowboys fans now, I would
say online and he you know, obviously Cowboys fans are
(25:55):
sick of him and every radio segment I ever did
you know in cow Boys what people were wanting to
say was will he ever? Will he ever bring in
a real GM or true GM? And the truth of
the matter is he will be doing this. He is
about eighty three. I would say, I give him. He
might pull back a little bit at age ninety five.
(26:19):
I could see him maybe maybe, But this is what
you're gonna get. This is no like Steven. I know
you and I've talked about this before. Is Steven doing more?
Is Steven. It's just Jerry loves it so much and
he's still in the middle of it. And with the
interesting one other interesting thing about Dak is that Dak
this whatever super Bowl talk that Dak's doing, Dak's attributing
(26:42):
this to Jerry. Dak is saying that he's seemed sort
of different behavior and urgency from Jerry, And what he's
basically saying is he thinks in the past there's been
a lot of just talk from Jerry, and that he
has decided this off season something he's seen from Jerry
(27:05):
seems more authentic and seems more genuine. And maybe that's
getting older, maybe that's getting more desperate, maybe that, but
Dak at least is what he's saying in these interviews,
he's feeding off Jerry, and that's that's kind of interesting
that that those two are are are feeding off each other.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
So Romo is in a little trouble at CBS, probably
more than a little trouble. And I had a source
years ago tell me that that, you know, Romo's a
fun guy, got some leadership skills, popular, not the most
detailed guy, kind of ad lived out of things you
wish he'd spent a little more time in the film room,
(27:48):
but I mean that's you know. He liked to golf,
he liked to hang out, he liked to do his thing.
But he was naturally gifted, no question about it, naturally gifted.
And as a broadcaster, I think it's kind of the same.
You don't know his feelings, but but he can be
funny and he's likable, and you know, it doesn't appear
to have a malicious bone in his body.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
What was it like to cover Romo? Was he was?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
He a little bit like the Romo the broadcaster, which
is he's a good time. He's funny, but not always
as serious as you'd like.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Well, I had to learn some tough lessons from covering
Romo because I never thought he was going to play.
And I don't know if you and I have even
talked about this over the years, but when he arrived
at camp in two thousand and three, I was very young,
still on the beat, and we just hit it off.
And he loved reading like William Knack, like the old
(28:39):
sports writers like. He was like way into all this stuff,
and so because of that, of course I was into
all that stuff too. We really hit it off and
then started playing a lot of golf together. And in
fact I played Pebble Beach with him some years ago,
and it was just it was it was interesting. But
and I moret taught me a little bit about this
(29:00):
I had to learn. I I covered him so closely
that when he when he became the starter that year,
everybody on the Cowboys beat knew that we had a
really close relationship. And so and then about that time
I get hired by ESPN dot com. And and again
I think he and I both probably didn't handle that
(29:22):
really well because I decided that too many people thought
we were close. And so when he would have a
bad game, I just killed him, Like I hated the
thought that I had been viewed as like Romo's guy,
and begin back to this, like it was so much
that I didn't think he was gonna play. Think about it.
(29:43):
They traded for like Drew Hinson, they had Testaverdi, they
had Drew Bledsoe, they had Quincy Carter. He was behind
so many people and so yeah, those were and I'll
tell you how bad he was at dating. Back in
the day. He used to Tony Romo would ask my
(30:03):
my my beautiful wife Meredith and me to try to
set him up and and I would take one of
my single buddies in Romo. We'd go out to a
bar in Dallas and he could not he could not
pick anybody. I mean, he was he had no game.
And I finally I told him, I said, have you
thought about using the fact that you play, you know,
(30:24):
quarterback for the Cowboys and that might that might help
your cause a little bit. But I mean, I guess
what I'm all that to say, So I did I
watching him. I watched him very up close, and he
he is naturally funny and he was so naturally gifted
(30:46):
as a quarterback. I mean even even back then, like
I mean, you wouldn't have believed some of these stories
at Parcels. Like Parcels one time loved him, Me loved Tony,
but all also hated that Tony was everything he wanted,
like Phil Simpson, those guys never to be. Tony Overnight
became a celebrity quarterback in one game before a Detroit
(31:10):
game his rookie year. It's nice rookies year. It's like
the first year he's starting. In two thousand and six,
Carrie Underwood's down on the field before the game and
Parcells is like freaking out, and I mean it just
it just it totally was and then like he started
dating Jessica Simpson at one point, I mean with two
thousand and seven, he gets Wade Phillips as his coach
(31:31):
and it was a mess. But he was great. He
was really really good and so oh.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I used to defend him all the time. I used
to always say it, folks, he'll throw a bad pick occasionally,
but he is a he is really naturally and he
was a naturally funny guy on television with Jim Nantz.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
He's a gifted kid. I'll tell you what really on
my thing. And I went to his wedding and we
actually are fine now to a certain extent. But where
I where I heard him the most sadly was Joe
Flacco wins the Super Bowl and it's like and everything
I wrote was true, but I wrote that Joe Flacco
(32:12):
got the enormous deal at the time because he won
a Super Bowl and they gave him the Super Bowl deal,
which was like fifty six million guarantee whatever it was
at the time. It was a monstrous deal. And I
wrote some column for Fox or ESPN and I said,
Tony's gonna get the same deal, which he did, by
(32:32):
the way, and not have any of the accolades, not
have done any of the work, not have earned any
of the titles, not done anything that Flaco's done, And
it was just too harsh. And I just remember I
got this text and it was basically like a breakup text.
It was like, we're we're finished. But I'll tell you
(32:55):
one thing, I feel horrible like I didn't I took
no Oh. I know, people laughed at all that filled
sobriety test. And what always tell people is be careful
laughing at all that stuff, because I would say a
few of us over the years have perhaps made some
not great decisions, and maybe, by the grace of God,
(33:16):
we didn't end up getting walked through some of that.
So I'm always reminded I do not take any glee
and seeing something like that happen to him. But to
your point about preparation, I think he had too much success,
like right away, and he was such a breakout hit,
(33:37):
and I think it even surprised nance to a certain extent,
and it was just so like, oh my gosh, and
it was so great that like written in that group
when they did the thing with it, it was just
I don't even I mean, it was all bad and
Jason wasn't right for that, But it was even worse
(33:58):
because Tony had the break out year before Jason tried
to do that with ESPN, and that was a he
was not cut out for that. I mean, I could
have told him that I could. I could save these
people so much money, uh, Colin, if they would ever
if they were visit with me. But but Tony, to
your point about the prep, he's just in his mind,
(34:20):
the the sort of loose not sounding so buttoned up
is what what makes him great. And he and so
I guess I think in some ways he kind of
leans into that, like maybe not putting as much preparation
as others. But we see other people, you know, they're
(34:41):
they're way you know, it's just it's it's very unfortunate
because now it looks like they they have got CBS
has gotten to get out of jail free card in
a sense, and and they'll likely try to find a
way to move on from him, and that's unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, I'd be surprised if they didn't. They have
JJ Watt, they like them a lot, and I think people,
you know, he squeezed CBS, he got every penny, and
in the end, I think that creates all sorts of
resentment upstairs when you do that, and oh yeah, that's
that's life and broadcasting is though. Those executives will pay you,
(35:21):
but they want to feel like they win a little too.
And with Romo, none of the executives at CBS felt
like they won. They felt like they got sort of dominate,
and that resentment.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
That's the one thing I've always made those guys feel
like winners when they negotiate with me.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Matt mostly, all right, buddy, that's great.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Well, thank you for thank you for having me.
The volume.
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He's my friend, Good to see you, Matt Moseley, Doomsday
Podcast with ed order. You can go ahead and knock
down that shot. Whatever that thing is in your cup.
You got something a little tasty on a go ahead
(02:09):
and knocked that down with.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Coffee, laughter, coffee. Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm not making any judgments. Hey, I was thinking about
you today. I was on the train coming home and
I knew you and I were going to do a podcast,
and you.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Know I pushed back famously.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Now on the Micah Parsons trade, I said, take a
deep breath, Dallas, Jerry is an executive and a maverick
and an entrepreneur. He just wants flexibility. He wants those
draft picks from Micah. Just hold off. This may work. Well. Hell,
we're a year out from the trade. It looks like
Dallas won it. Let me ask you this. So, when
(02:50):
when Mike Hah got traded, I immediately called two executives
and they're like, listen, Mike is a splash player. He's
not great against the run. I've got great effort, great flexibility.
They tried him at linebacker. He didn't have kind of
quick reaction in quick eyes. He is a see quarterback.
Go get him blow stuff up. And they're like, he
(03:13):
is great at that, like Hall of Fame level great
at that. But they're like, listen, he's not completely well
rounded there. You know, he has been kind of devoured
in a couple of playoff games against elite tackles, and
so like, Mike is good, but the Cowboys had flexibility.
Let me ask you, though, Dak Prescott I think is
(03:36):
really popular in the room and many great pop players
in the NFL are popular in the room. Was Micah
popular among teammates. I have a feeling he was among some,
but not all.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, Micah had this childlike quality about him. I do
think some people were drawn to him. I think he
worked as hard as any young guy I've ever seen
at playing leader at like trying to have leadership attributes
(04:14):
and really wanted to be It was not natural to him.
The one thing I'll say is he did position himself
after Dames, even during horrible seasons, and he was not
going to slink out of there. Trayvon Diggs, some of
those guys, they were slinking right on out. So I
(04:38):
think he had the makings of some leadership. I think
the way he handled like that thing could have gone
either way. I think Dak and other teammates and CD
were willing to have his back. You've never seen anybody
handle a holdout slash hold in worse than Micah. Parsons
(05:00):
and Jerry didn't help because Jerry was in some kind
of weird battle with the agent. Jerry showed up the
agent who has ended up becoming like a huge NFL agent,
and so that didn't none of it helped. But Jerry
because of his charm and I've heard you talk about
(05:20):
this before, but he always relies on that and he
thinks that that will always win the day. And he
tried to do that with Micah and he embarrassed Micah
because in the end he Jerry basically made it out
like Micah agreed to a deal and you guys aren't
(05:42):
honoring the deal Micah agreed upon, and then it turned
into a mess. So Mike is a lot of things.
I think he could have been a fine leader, Like
if you're a great enough player like where he was
headed and where he already was, you just have such
a huge head start that most people will follow you.
(06:03):
But now he worked at it. Now. The problem for him, though,
and that's why other people would leave like the DeMarcus
Lawrence and take shots at him, is because he was
a big podcast. You know, he was a big let's
and boy, that's not always a great look if you're
having a horrible season and then Monday you're doing your
pod and you're goofing around and all of that, and
(06:25):
that didn't always play well in the locker room. But
I will say he tried. He just had the most
disastrous hold in you've ever seen to the point where
he was like napping on a training tape during the preseason.
That's about as bad as it gets. Remember it.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
How is Caleb Downs? I mean, I think it's universally
believed that he was the steel of the draft. He
could have easily gone the year before in the top
fifteen picks. Just a tremendous player for Ohio State. How's
he looked in camp?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
She looked really good. He's looked versatile. I think for now,
I think I think they're going to have to decide,
you know, I think they want to use him in
a lot of different areas, but you don't want you
want him to be I thought that was interesting that
Nick Saban said play him back off the line of scrimmage,
(07:20):
like he's a great safety. I think the Cowboys love
this idea of him being a slot corner and being
so unbelievably versatile, and I think he is that guy.
I mean against the faster, I mean like the seed
lambs of the world who line up in a slot
and actually some guys that have some size because he
(07:40):
is not very big. No, he's gonna have some struggles,
so you know, I think it'll be about like putting
him in the right situations. That said, you know I
I I think I think he is capable of becoming,
you know, one of their best players. I would say
(08:01):
to ask him to be that day one is a
little much. And I sometime since watching some of these
training camp practices and I'll be out there soon. In
the middle of all that, I think a lot is
being I mean, you know, you hear it over and over.
The Cowboys got this unbelievable draft pick, maybe the safest
(08:25):
pick in the draft. Like being asked to be the
savior of what was historically horrible defense is a lot
to ask of a safety. Think about that. We don't
usually hear of a safety being drafted and just like, oh,
this guy's going to be I mean, when was the
(08:45):
last somebody that came in. I remember Jalen Ramsey. Ramsey
coming into the league and the Cowboys were deciding between
him and Zeke Elliott and they took Zeke back in
twenty sixteen. But it's not often you need a cornerback
or a safety to be your leader day one. It's
not a great situation. Yeah, now fortunately they have Quinn
(09:08):
Williams and some others. But I think right now they're
expecting huge things from downs and that worries me to
a certain extent.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yes, I was talking to a GM in the last
week and he said safety is the hardest position to
scout as a general manager in the NFL. He goes,
sometimes you can watch two hours of film and they're,
you know, they're never they never make a play. He goes,
you know, they can face a physical team there with
a line of scrimmage. The next week they play a
(09:41):
you know, a rpo team, he said. He said, it's
really really hard to scout safety's in college. He said,
Kyle Hamilton is one he looked at. Kyle was great.
People forget ed Reid went late first round, like, so
it's no. I think Caleb's a really special player in
my take. So it has been on an me small
but instinctive, and I think safety is one of those
(10:02):
center field positions where instinct matters a lot. Do you,
I think, almost to a person the Brian Schottenheimer higher
was puzzling he was not being interviewed for top OC jobs.
Jerry gives him the job, and I think, you know,
the Cowboys record wasn't great. But I think by and
(10:22):
large I can acknowledge. Listen, the offense was good, his
side of the ball was good. You can't blame him
for defense. Is there a secret sauce with shots Shotty?
Is there is there kind of a thing he does
maybe that I don't recognize or unless you're in the building.
Jerry saw it. Jerry Jones obviously saw it, but maybe
(10:46):
outsiders don't see it.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Jerry is enambered with like he would always I mean,
even back to parcels his Jerry would always say his
people skills, his people skills will I mean, Bill would
just grind on people and so his people's skills they
were there. But it also involved like huge sarcasm. That's
(11:11):
not Shottenheimer. Now, Schottenheimer is a much better like I
think if we got Dak to be really honest, he
would just say yeah. I mean, like dealing with Mike
McCarty on a daily basis and dealing with Shoddy is
like night and day. Not that he dislikes McCarthy at all,
but McCarty is more in tune with the modern player,
(11:37):
more in tune with like building this incredible culture, being
one of the guys, maybe even occasionally having a drink
with some of the guys. And again, none of those
things matter if you start losing in all of that,
I think the thing that validated the hiring of Shoddy
was the offense being great, Pickens year one being off
(12:00):
the charts, and now the makings of the best. I mean,
I don't know if it's the best, but from a
wide receiver trio standpoint, and even with Flinoy pretty good,
they're pretty it's pretty unbelievable and and Pickens has sort
of that. Okay, So that's when you give a guy
(12:21):
like Shoddy credit because this Pickings thing could have gone
either way. And I think Shody got in his ear
and just said, I'll do anything for you. You know,
I'll run, I'll I'll try to negotiate the deal for you,
but I need you to show up. I need you
to be here at these mandatory things, and I need
you to I need, I mean, I really need. I
(12:43):
can't have I mean shot. He got undermined in a
hurry by Micah and then and then that thing got
ugly and then Evra Flus God love him. A week
before the season. I'm sorry, buddy guy, that you had
like planned your whole defense around. Oh, you're not gonna
(13:03):
have them. Let's remember Quinnon wasn't there from day one.
Quinnin was a haymaker. Let's try to get them some
help like they have they had to do. The interesting
thing about Jerry right now is that he seems more willing.
In the past, Jerry liked to wait and then have
to go get like Amari, you know, five or six
(13:26):
weeks in the season when they were losing, the season
was falling apart, and they were either two and four
or three and four whatever. Jerry seems to be of
the mindset right now is we could be really good.
Let's go get somebody. Now, Let's go get somebody to
add in here now now, you know. The thing I've
kind of been trying to keep an eye on is like,
(13:48):
how will Pickens take it? If it's like, okay, they're
gonna like give up more draft capital or more players
or whatever to go get a pass rusher, and then
Quinn Williams gets thirty five million dollars a year, and
I mean Pickens is getting what twenty eight million for
(14:08):
one season? Yeah, eight, and so it does have to
occur to him. It's like, Okay, they're kind of going
after all these people and taking care of all these people,
but not taking care of me. But again, I got
off track a little bit, but I brought that up
to say Shoddy was responsible, I think, and really helpful
(14:30):
in getting Pickens to kind of be calm through this
whole thing and to understand that, hey, a one year
franchise tag is not the end of the world. And
by the way, they've done this with Dak, like it's
not like he's the first player they've ever tried to
do the franchise tag thing with.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, I think Dak is so universally respected in the building.
I mean, the Cowboys is a high maintenance job to
play quarterback. I think I don't know, I'm not in
that building, but they're I mean, most of your great
Cowboy quarterbacks Staubach, Aikman, and Dak, they're one common thread
is they had absolutely great leadership skills. I mean Staubach
(15:13):
was more mobile, Aikman was more pocket Dak doesn't have
a huge arm. All of them are great leaders. So
I mean that's always just been kind of the Cowboy
quarterbacks like just they're like I mean Navy for you know,
Staubach I mean Aikman NFL films legendary calling out coaches
and players. I mean, you're at practice. I think Dak
(15:33):
is one of those guys in this league and there
may not be twenty five at any one time that
literally every player in the league respects him. Would that
be accurate?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, I think it is accurate, and it's it's you know,
I tried to make that point to you for years
when you were kind of like a little bit iffy
on Dak, And I mean you've said that even recently,
that it took you a while to kind of come
around on him. But it was like the thing with
or these all these intangibles and things that are sort
of hard to measure, those things did not always match
(16:07):
up with what was happening on the field. I think
the thing for some of us that's been weird with
Dak's career is that he overcame, like fourth round pick
steps in for Romo. Romo gets hurt, Romo never gets
his job back, may not get this other job back,
but he this was an amazing thing for us that
(16:31):
had a front row view to that to watch. And
what's really interesting too, in bringing up Romo, if you
go back there when Romo took over as a starter
in two thousand and six for two quarterback. How many
years is that? Twenty years? For twenty years, Jerry and
the Cowboys have lucked into quarterbacks because if they did not,
(16:56):
Romo is undrafted as Sean Payton and David Lee another
coach kind of wanted and in Romo, I was like,
I mean, that was amazing, and they wanted the people
they wanted instead of dak Are. It's kind of embarrassing.
Like there's a guy from Michigan steak at a state
I think his name was Connor Cook. There was that
guy that went to the Broncos that was like six
(17:17):
or eight or something or maybe that's the guy that.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Was yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
It wasn't Brock, but it was post Brock, but it
was somebody that was just like, oh, Michael.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Paxton, Paxton Lynch.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I feel like all these people that I'm mentioning are
like Michigan State people. But anyway, they they just for
twenty years they lucked into quarterbacks and.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Danny White, I mean, you can go a long way.
Stabauch Clint Longley on a Thanksgiving Day against Washington, remember
that they had Danny White was I think Arizona State,
I think I'm not sure. No, they've always done quarterback well.
I've said this before. The Bengals and the Chargers have
always done quarterback well. Like there are these organizations that
(18:03):
just get I mean, Cincinnati's cheap. Their scouting departments always
felt like at second tier you can go back to
Ken Anderson, Boomer Asiason, Andy Dalton won the division, Joe Burrow,
like certain Cowboys have always gotten quarterback run by.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Look though, I mean you know, in the from the
draft process because they they backed into those quarterbacks. Now,
once they got there, they made the best of it.
And like based on where he came from and how
he was thought of, Romo, I mean, his career was
insanely good. Uh and Dak is the same. But the
thing is, and you've made this point plenty of times,
(18:42):
but when you play that position for the Cowboys and
it's shortstopped for the Yankees and everything, at some point
it wears off, like, oh, mysh, this is an incredible story.
He's exceeded expectations. No, at some point you're the quarterback
for the Cowboys. So those expectations of eight men and
all back are there, and I find it fascinating that
(19:05):
Dak did decide to come to camp this year with
the Super Bowl thirty t shirt. Now, again, these people
have not sniffed an NFC title in thirty years. They
have not made it there. So it's funny to me
that they want to bring up the Super Bowl. It's like, guys,
(19:26):
just get to a conference championship game, like, do something
along those lines. Think about it. Even during all these
pretty good teams the Cowboys have had, they've only been
close to an NFC title game twice, once in two
thousand and seven against the Giants and once in the
did he catch it? Did he not catch it? Des
Bryant game against Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay when Mike
(19:48):
McCarthy was the head coach of Green Bay. Twice in
thirty years. So anyway, I get a little these, you know,
and I know the writers get caught up in it.
And believe me, when I get to Oxnard and Ventura
and those beat those breezes start to hit me, I
start to do that kind of stuff, Oh could this
(20:09):
be the year? But when I get removed from it,
I do have all these years of perspective that tell
me this is kind of ridiculous that they're even talking
about it now. Dak is very interesting to me because
he just turned thirty three and he's arrived at camp
and you saw it. Jory Epstein Albert Breer had a
(20:31):
story today, who's a good friend of ours, and Dak
is just it's a very interesting not that Dak's I'm
not saying Dak's never dropped a exploitive or something, but man,
it's this. It's this John Wayne Bravado, I'm not gonna
hide it anymore. We got we got what we need here.
(20:54):
Jerry's got a sense of urgency. I've got a sense
of urgency. And he all that said in one of
these stories I was reading this morning from Dak that
like Jerry, you know, Jerry gave me He didn't say
it exactly like this, but what he was getting at
he you know, we had this great offense I put
up like some of my best numbers ever, and they
rolled out one of the worst defenses ever. And so
(21:18):
now it seems to be a respectable looking defense to
the point where like today's reaction from a joint practice
with the Rams is like, oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
They they held up, and Stafford and Bennett and all
the Rams who last year just sliced and diced them
(21:39):
did not do that. And somebody named like Justin Barron
had three interceptions for the Cowboys today a linebacker. So
it's a different feeling around these Cowboys team. But I
just I just want to remind you that this is
the time when everybody's always excited about the Cowboys, and
(22:00):
then generally the season starts and it doesn't always go
the way you think it's going to go. I do
think they have a little bit better foundation right now
than they usually do.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
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(23:00):
They're about what you do every day to.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Be ready for it.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
When you're around Jerry, because you know Jerry's like there
was a poll a couple of years ago among Cowboy
fans and they kind of blamed Jerry, And we're not
a super Bowl team. How is Jerry? Does he get
cat calls when he's at Cowboy camp from Cowboy fans?
How is I mean if he had three straight Super Bowls,
he'd be treated, you know, at a different light. Owners
(23:29):
are always popular when the team's winning. But Jerry, I
mean this drought a lot of people point to Jerry
and say his ego in vanity is the primary culprit.
How is he treated? Have you ever been in public
with him around Cowboy fans? Does he get cat calls
or is it respectful?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I would say if the fans have been overserved a
little bit there, they might get after him, but it's
still mainly on the road the cat calls come. You
saw him infamously last year flips some fans off or
was that two years ago? Sometime recently they caught him
(24:05):
doing that. It's not it's pretty respectful. I would imagine.
There are times I've seen him in interesting social situations
and for the most part, and he is just he
loves it. He loves being approached, and he is the
most approachable owner in probably all the professional sports. And
(24:28):
you know what would be hilarious would be at the skybar.
I was always shocked. I guess that was maybe pre
you being out in LA but you would have really
enjoyed some of those parties because it was fun because
you'd get these one on one like great moments with
Jerry and you'd have a rope up right where it's
like supposed to be just the media and Jerry and
(24:50):
al Michaels might stop by. You know, there would be
people that would stop by, and by the end of
the night, Colin, everybody in the place was an him
the entire because everybody had been like looking up there, Oh,
Jerry Jones is up there. The ropes or whatever had
been let down and the masses had come around. So
(25:11):
whether it's negative positive, you know, he's one of those
that love it, and it's just been it's been interesting
for all these years. Now think about that. For the
past I was thinking about this with losing Don Nelson,
which is a really sad thing that happened recently. But
you know, Nelson was hired before Mark Cuban. So in
Dallas we had for twenty for about twenty five years,
(25:35):
including Cuban, and then of course back to nineteen eighty
nine with Jerry, we've had these crazy, over the top
loud owners and so it's been a lot of fun.
But for the most part, I don't think he gets
it too much from the Cowboys fans now, I would
say online and he you know, obviously Cowboys fans are
(25:55):
sick of him and every radio segment I ever did
you know in cow Boys what people were wanting to
say was will he ever? Will he ever bring in
a real GM or true GM? And the truth of
the matter is he will be doing this. He is
about eighty three. I would say, I give him. He
might pull back a little bit at age ninety five.
(26:19):
I could see him maybe maybe, But this is what
you're gonna get. This is no like Steven. I know
you and I've talked about this before. Is Steven doing more?
Is Steven. It's just Jerry loves it so much and
he's still in the middle of it. And with the
interesting one other interesting thing about Dak is that Dak
this whatever super Bowl talk that Dak's doing, Dak's attributing
(26:42):
this to Jerry. Dak is saying that he's seemed sort
of different behavior and urgency from Jerry, And what he's
basically saying is he thinks in the past there's been
a lot of just talk from Jerry, and that he
has decided this off season something he's seen from Jerry
(27:05):
seems more authentic and seems more genuine. And maybe that's
getting older, maybe that's getting more desperate, maybe that, but
Dak at least is what he's saying in these interviews,
he's feeding off Jerry, and that's that's kind of interesting
that that those two are are are feeding off each other.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
So Romo is in a little trouble at CBS, probably
more than a little trouble. And I had a source
years ago tell me that that, you know, Romo's a
fun guy, got some leadership skills, popular, not the most
detailed guy, kind of ad lived out of things you
wish he'd spent a little more time in the film room,
(27:48):
but I mean that's you know. He liked to golf,
he liked to hang out, he liked to do his thing.
But he was naturally gifted, no question about it, naturally gifted.
And as a broadcaster, I think it's kind of the same.
You don't know his feelings, but but he can be
funny and he's likable, and you know, it doesn't appear
to have a malicious bone in his body.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
What was it like to cover Romo? Was he was?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
He a little bit like the Romo the broadcaster, which
is he's a good time. He's funny, but not always
as serious as you'd like.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Well, I had to learn some tough lessons from covering
Romo because I never thought he was going to play.
And I don't know if you and I have even
talked about this over the years, but when he arrived
at camp in two thousand and three, I was very young,
still on the beat, and we just hit it off.
And he loved reading like William Knack, like the old
(28:39):
sports writers like. He was like way into all this stuff,
and so because of that, of course I was into
all that stuff too. We really hit it off and
then started playing a lot of golf together. And in
fact I played Pebble Beach with him some years ago,
and it was just it was it was interesting. But
and I moret taught me a little bit about this
(29:00):
I had to learn. I I covered him so closely
that when he when he became the starter that year,
everybody on the Cowboys beat knew that we had a
really close relationship. And so and then about that time
I get hired by ESPN dot com. And and again
I think he and I both probably didn't handle that
(29:22):
really well because I decided that too many people thought
we were close. And so when he would have a
bad game, I just killed him, Like I hated the
thought that I had been viewed as like Romo's guy,
and begin back to this, like it was so much
that I didn't think he was gonna play. Think about it.
(29:43):
They traded for like Drew Hinson, they had Testaverdi, they
had Drew Bledsoe, they had Quincy Carter. He was behind
so many people and so yeah, those were and I'll
tell you how bad he was at dating. Back in
the day. He used to Tony Romo would ask my
(30:03):
my my beautiful wife Meredith and me to try to
set him up and and I would take one of
my single buddies in Romo. We'd go out to a
bar in Dallas and he could not he could not
pick anybody. I mean, he was he had no game.
And I finally I told him, I said, have you
thought about using the fact that you play, you know,
(30:24):
quarterback for the Cowboys and that might that might help
your cause a little bit. But I mean, I guess
what I'm all that to say, So I did I
watching him. I watched him very up close, and he
he is naturally funny and he was so naturally gifted
(30:46):
as a quarterback. I mean even even back then, like
I mean, you wouldn't have believed some of these stories
at Parcels. Like Parcels one time loved him, Me loved Tony,
but all also hated that Tony was everything he wanted,
like Phil Simpson, those guys never to be. Tony Overnight
became a celebrity quarterback in one game before a Detroit
(31:10):
game his rookie year. It's nice rookies year. It's like
the first year he's starting. In two thousand and six,
Carrie Underwood's down on the field before the game and
Parcells is like freaking out, and I mean it just
it just it totally was and then like he started
dating Jessica Simpson at one point, I mean with two
thousand and seven, he gets Wade Phillips as his coach
(31:31):
and it was a mess. But he was great. He
was really really good and so oh.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I used to defend him all the time. I used
to always say it, folks, he'll throw a bad pick occasionally,
but he is a he is really naturally and he
was a naturally funny guy on television with Jim Nantz.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
He's a gifted kid. I'll tell you what really on
my thing. And I went to his wedding and we
actually are fine now to a certain extent. But where
I where I heard him the most sadly was Joe
Flacco wins the Super Bowl and it's like and everything
I wrote was true, but I wrote that Joe Flacco
(32:12):
got the enormous deal at the time because he won
a Super Bowl and they gave him the Super Bowl deal,
which was like fifty six million guarantee whatever it was
at the time. It was a monstrous deal. And I
wrote some column for Fox or ESPN and I said,
Tony's gonna get the same deal, which he did, by
(32:32):
the way, and not have any of the accolades, not
have done any of the work, not have earned any
of the titles, not done anything that Flaco's done, And
it was just too harsh. And I just remember I
got this text and it was basically like a breakup text.
It was like, we're we're finished. But I'll tell you
(32:55):
one thing, I feel horrible like I didn't I took
no Oh. I know, people laughed at all that filled
sobriety test. And what always tell people is be careful
laughing at all that stuff, because I would say a
few of us over the years have perhaps made some
not great decisions, and maybe, by the grace of God,
(33:16):
we didn't end up getting walked through some of that.
So I'm always reminded I do not take any glee
and seeing something like that happen to him. But to
your point about preparation, I think he had too much success,
like right away, and he was such a breakout hit,
(33:37):
and I think it even surprised nance to a certain extent,
and it was just so like, oh my gosh, and
it was so great that like written in that group
when they did the thing with it, it was just
I don't even I mean, it was all bad and
Jason wasn't right for that, But it was even worse
(33:58):
because Tony had the break out year before Jason tried
to do that with ESPN, and that was a he
was not cut out for that. I mean, I could
have told him that I could. I could save these
people so much money, uh, Colin, if they would ever
if they were visit with me. But but Tony, to
your point about the prep, he's just in his mind,
(34:20):
the the sort of loose not sounding so buttoned up
is what what makes him great. And he and so
I guess I think in some ways he kind of
leans into that, like maybe not putting as much preparation
as others. But we see other people, you know, they're
(34:41):
they're way you know, it's just it's it's very unfortunate
because now it looks like they they have got CBS
has gotten to get out of jail free card in
a sense, and and they'll likely try to find a
way to move on from him, and that's unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, I'd be surprised if they didn't. They have
JJ Watt, they like them a lot, and I think people,
you know, he squeezed CBS, he got every penny, and
in the end, I think that creates all sorts of
resentment upstairs when you do that, and oh yeah, that's
that's life and broadcasting is though. Those executives will pay you,
(35:21):
but they want to feel like they win a little too.
And with Romo, none of the executives at CBS felt
like they won. They felt like they got sort of dominate,
and that resentment.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
That's the one thing I've always made those guys feel
like winners when they negotiate with me.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Matt mostly, all right, buddy, that's great.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Well, thank you for thank you for having me.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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