Colin Cowherd is joined by '3 & Out' host John Middlekauff to react to the latest in the NFL. They start with the blockbuster trade that sent Maxx Crosby from the Raiders to the Ravens. Where do the Ravens rank in the NFL after the move? How will the Raiders use their new picks in the NFL Draft. They talk about why Joe Burrow should be upset with the move. They discuss the other notable defensive players that have been traded recently for multiple first round picks and why teams are copying the Los Angeles Rams. Colin gives out his Herd Hierarchy. They give Free Agency predictions and look ahead to the 2026 NFL Draft.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, here we go, John Middlecoff and I.
I don't work tomorrow on TV, so this is my
I was down in Florida all weekend and hanging out
with my wife in Naples. Have you ever gone to Naples, by.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The way, Yeah, back when I was with the Eagles,
they had these scouting meetings at I forget the name
of the place. I mean right on the water. I
think it's about thirty minutes away from Naples. And then
the end you have a week long paid vacation. I'm
with a buddies, like, let's take a I don't even
think ubers existed. Back in twenty thirteen, we hopped in
(00:43):
a cab, went up there, had dinner. It was it
was nice fifteen years ago. I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, it's exploded. Naples, Florida has exploded. I rented a
little with a friend, a little twenty two foot boat
to kind of go around and look at the billionaire
row of homes and my friends in realty. He's like, Oh,
that's boom boom, boom boom. Some people live. Well, that's all.
(01:10):
I'm on a twenty two foot boat looking at thirty
five thousand square foot homes, but it was beautiful. So
you know, listen, let's start with Max Crosby. So I
had said this before. I think he was kind of
the soul of the Raiders, but they're breaking it down
to the foundation. I thought they they may keep Max
(01:30):
because they have like twelve draft picks, eleven or twelve
draft picks, so if they hit on seven or eight
of those, they've got plenty of money. They're not paying
their quarterback for four years, so I would just keep
Max Crosby. But I think you know, they're looking at
he's an older player, still great. But I think I
saw a story today they're interested in Tyler Linderbaum, the
great center from Baltimore, and it's like the Giants and
(01:54):
the Raiders, which I think would be a huge move
because they drafted Jackson Powers Johnson Jackson to Cowers Johnson
JPJ from Oregon, and he didn't play center. He played guard,
so he's more comfortable at guard. He's very good. So
to me, this feels like the Raiders are doing if
(02:14):
they get Tyler Lindebaum. It feels a little bit like
Ben Johnson to the Bears. Here's the quarterback and I'm
gonna get the interior of the old line. I'm gonna
go get now. Drew Dolman just retired after one year
in Chicago. But do you like the Max Crosby deal
for them, especially for the Raiders if they get Tyler
Lindebaum because of the availability to you know, pay him
(02:37):
top of the market.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, I like it simply because it was time, you know.
I think quietly he kind of wanted out. He wasn't
gonna do it, kind of like a Yannis situation, because
he loves the fans, he loves the franchise, Right, Colin,
they got more again. We'll have to see what plays
out next year. The Dallas Cowboys traded Michael Parsons and
they are lucky. I mean, it took a Micah Parson's
(02:59):
injury and a crazy comeback in a playoff game. They
got picked twenty. I didn't quite realize that the moment
the trade was made, and then you give it five minutes.
The Ravens missed the playoffs and win eight and nine,
which sometimes gets you picked eighteen. It's picked fourteen. Yes,
and I think I saw Warren sharp. This is the
highest amount of draft capital any team's ever had because
(03:20):
they got the first pick in every round. You'd rather
have pick one in fourteen than pick eight to nine.
I mean, it is the fourteenth pick that that to
me is where it's like, damn, that was a lot, Colin.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You know. The other thing John to remember is they
already have The Raiders have two ones, A two to three,
three fours, two fives, two sixes. Those top that top
of round two. John, you do the first round. Guys
are making deals, gms are making deals all night. You
could move down seven spots and yeas another third or
(03:53):
a fifth or a fourth. So the Raiders really can
rebuild the entire franch guys quarterback, first pick, fourteenth pick,
you could have the top interior old lineman from Penn State.
You could have the second best corner. I mean you can.
You can do it. You have to probably replace Max
with one of your first three to four picks, you know,
(04:16):
but I mean, I it's the first time because Jackson
powers Johnson. You've got one and Colton Miller left tackle.
Jackson powers Johnson. You add Tyler Lindenbaum. It's like, oh,
this is what the Bears did. So I don't I
can't tell you the last time I was. I think
John Spytech it deserves a lot of credit for this.
(04:36):
How many teams do you think we're interested in Crosby?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
This is why I never understood they won't get two
first round picks. Guys, every playoff team there are fourteen
playoff teams. The Raiders are obviously not even remotely close
to one of them. They were all interested. And then
you get and you then throw in the Cowboys, who
have that ammunition. Think they're gonna be pretty good this
year if they can flip it around on defense. So
(05:03):
I think when the dust settled, you probably had five
teams willing to get really aggressive, but no one could
trump that fourteenth pick. You know, you see stories on
the Jags, you see you know, teams like the Bear.
All these teams are in the twenties, colin in the
mid to late twenties. And then you go, if I
give a max, if I trade them to the Jags
or I trade them to the Bears, well, if they're
in the playoffs again, that's picked twenty five, and next
(05:25):
year that's picked twenty four. Where that's what the what's
the likelihood that the Cowboys pick. I guess they might
have already traded it because they traded for Quinn Williams.
But the way that they had set up to Micah deal,
that was looking like pick twenty eight and pick twenty
eight back to back years, which I'm not opposed, but
when I see I can't believe they the Bills gave
(05:46):
up a second rounder for DJ Moore. Guy, guys, it's
pick sixty. It's not picked thirty seven. These things are
not equal, you know, Colin, I'm in my home, you're
in your home. We're both homeowners. Were not equal if
we sold our home. They're not the same. So it's
like when I see these things get thrown around, Well,
they're offering a first round pick, Well, we're in the
first round because pick fourteen is fantastic. Pick twenty nine,
(06:09):
like the Chiefs, they did well. But pick you'd ask Andy,
would you rather pick? You know, there's a big difference.
There's a big gap. If I would have told you
they would have got the Rams thirteenth overall pick, you
would have been like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
What a hole. Yeah, the Dj Moore pick, to me,
I thought worked for Buffalo because Keon Coleman now there's
no pressure on him to work he had a touchdown
in the game against I think Denver in the playoffs.
So he's a kid, he's a big play kid. But
now you've got your running back, your quarterback, your left tackle,
a very good slot receiver, a number one and if
(06:41):
Keon Coleman is kind of a fifty catch forty three
catch guy, but a big you know, he's sort of
just like Rashid Shaheed for the Seahawks. He's just a
big play guy. About twice a game. You go downfield,
you keep the safeties. Honest, I thought DJ Moore to
Buffalo was a great pick. And you make a great
point on this is that Brett Viach is a very
(07:04):
very good general manager for the Chiefs. I mean, Xavier
Worthy last year at the end of the first round
is kind of I wouldn't say a gadget receiver, but
he's not a volume receiver. Now that's a that's about
as well as you can do late first round, which
is get an explosive first round level athlete. But if
he was a volume receiver McKay lemon usc you'd go
(07:27):
mid first round. And McKay lemon doesn't have Worthy speed
or explosiveness. But you know, you're end of the first round.
I mean years ago the Chiefs kind of whiffed on
a running back out of LSU late first round. So
it's no man's land.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
This is very when you look at the Ravens. I
was reading a couple of stories over the last twenty
four hours. They've never I mean, obviously they've made big
acquisitions on older players or veteran players, you know historically
from Ankwon Boldens to Steve Smith's to Rokewan Smith. Like
they are an aggressive organization. They've never traded a first
round pick for a player, and typically over the Lamar
(08:02):
era they have drafted what I would twenty four to
twenty eight range, right, So they are not This is
a very valuable pick, if memory serves me correct. Kyle
Hamilton was the fourteenth pick in the draft. Now, all
drafts aren't equal, and I'm not saying there's a Kyle
Hamilton in this draft. And my point is that's how
gms think, Like if I'm fourteen, I can get a guy.
(08:23):
I mean, Michah Parsons was the eleventh pick. You know,
Jalen Carter was the ninth pick, where the kid you
just never know how a draft shakes out Laramie Tunzel.
The picture comes out all of a sudden, He's there
at whatever pick ten or eleven. Weird things happen around
the draft. Stories come out, like the Raiders have an
opportunity now. They did this once upon a time, and
I was living in the Bay Area. They had three
(08:45):
first round picks one year because they had traded Khalil
Mack and they had traded Amari Cooper in the same year.
And they whiffed on basically every pick over that run
except for Josh Jacobs. So it is now incumbent on
them to hit the pick. But listen, I've known Spy Tech.
He left Eagles right before I was with him and
Jason Light at the combine. He I think he's really good.
And if you watch Max Crosby's I don't know if
(09:07):
you watched it, it's about his genuine, no notes, just
him talking to have that much loyalty and passion to
a team that he didn't have any success on besides
personally but not as a team. It was you know,
that's just refreshing to see a guy if you're a
Raider fan, this guy really cared about my organization, even
though we're the butt of everyone's jokes. You could tell
it was difficult for him because he kind of hasked
(09:28):
to sign off on this as well. And I just
think that listen, he's you know these coaches, he is
as highly thought of as any one you're gonna find
in the NFL. I mean, he's been sober for six years.
He's in there every morning at five am. He is
a no bullshit guy. He plays the game like he practices,
and he's an impact player at a premium position. The
(09:51):
Ravens ger getting a really really I mean a Hall
of Fame level guy.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So in the last five years, the Ravens have blown
the most fourth quarter leads. Now the last two they're
seventeen and five if Lamar is playing, and they lead
in the fourth quarter. So they're better at it. But
I get I get them saying, Okay, we planned a
division with Joe Burrow, you know, probably Aaron Rodgers, Josh Allen, Mahomes,
(10:22):
Herbert C. J. Strouder in the division. I think what
Baltimore is saying is and I thought Green Bay did
this as well. We're just gonna go it's our Mariano Rivera.
We're gonna go get a closer if because I know
Bill Paulion told me this years ago. He said, when
we drafted Peyton Manning, we knew we would lead most
of our games in the fourth quarter. That's why Dwight
(10:43):
Freeding was so valuable, is that, you know Max. I
said this the other day on FS one. Think how
great Max Crosby was. How often do the Raiders lead
in the fourth Never? Never, there's nine minutes to go,
Teams are running the ball on the Raiders. They're trying
to kill the clock. They don't want players hurt. They're
trying to get out of Vegas and go home. Max
(11:04):
Crosby now is going to be his last twelve snaps
are going to be sacked. But his last twelve snaps
with the Raiders are usually you know, it's a run play.
So I think I think the Ravens are gonna listen.
The bottom line is if Max is a monster for
two years and they get to an AFC championship, you're
going to look at it and go worth it. The
(11:27):
only thing it's funny with the Raiders, John and and
I you being a former scout, So the Raiders have
so many picks now, so two first, the second, the third,
three fourths fists. They can have multiple picks. But Tom
Tellesco told me this years ago. He said, you know,
you have to be careful about being too young. You know.
Let's say you could trade a great player and get
(11:47):
four picks. He said, I'd sometimes rather have three picks
in a player. The Raiders are going to rebuild their franchise,
but people should be patient. But with that many picks,
like I could see the if they have three fourth
round picks, I could see them using two of them
and getting a second third. Like I look at the
Raiders and I think to myself, in that division, it's
(12:09):
not just about making sure your picks can play. You
need impact guys.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, I think. I think one thing they have to
do over the next I don't know three or four days,
is potentially overpay a high level, veteran winning type guy.
You know, get a guy who has been a part
of a winner, who is a high character team leader.
If you got to overpay them, and listen, they got
(12:33):
advantages people like living in Vegas, no state income tax.
It's not like a tough sell in free agency in football.
This isn't basketball or baseball like these guys go where
you give them the most money. And I would imagine
Spike Tech because he can't he game from Tampa, where
by the time Brady got there, they had the infrastructure.
Tom just provided that veteran leadership and now once he left,
(12:54):
all those guys were equipped because they just watched Tom.
And then you had the Vita veas you had them.
You know, Mike Evans was already high level guy. If
I'm the Raiders, Hey, Mike, who's offering you? What? What's
the most you got at ten? Hey Waffery of fifteen,
you know you've already wanted Super Bowl. You're already going
to the Hall of Fame. We will overpay for what
you bring in tangibly to our facility, because, like you said,
(13:16):
you can't put that all on Medoza, you can't put
that all on Carnel Tait or whoever you take with
the fourteenth pick. You're gonna need some guys for them
to look up to. And that was Max, who is
probably as good as anyone, and he's like him Fred Warnerly.
It's a short list of like you could not meet
a human that can say a bad word about these guys.
And then when you factor in how good of a
player they are. But I thought that like it had
(13:40):
come to the you know, the happiest three guys in
the league, not in Baltimore. They're Jim Harbaugh, Andy Reid,
Sean Payton. Because the Raiders have not been a good team,
but they were a pain to play when Max is
playing because he could just throw off. Those are three
offensive guys, you know, Andy, I mean, talk to Andy
about him. I mean he revers Max. I at think I
read something Sean Payton at Max Crosby at Techs yesterday.
(14:02):
So I mean, these guys they don't just they're pretty
numb to good players right now. They view Max as
like high level respect because they also know how bad
that team's been and now good. Remember we turn on
like random Friday night Blackfry or was it Christmas Eve
games and the Raiders are playing the Broncos. It's like, God,
this is hard, you know because Max, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
No, they often played the Chiefs and the Broncos tight.
You know the utter thing I thought about, think about
Joe Burrow. So they let Trey Hendrickson walk instead of
trading him for a really good player, like like the Raiders,
John spy tech smartly did. He got a two first
round picks out of it. The Bengals classic Bengals let
Trey Hendrickson, who's not as good as Max Crosby, but
(14:45):
he's a very good player. They let him walk. So
Burrow now in his division has Max Crosby twice a year,
Miles Garrett twice a year, and DJ Watt twice a year,
and his rush end is gone. I have theori with
I just saw a picture of it was Joe Burrow.
I think it's this offseason in Vegas playing with some
(15:06):
like celebrity and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I think it was just Galba.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And my take is Burrow, just for his sanity, has
really enjoyed his off seasons because I think deep down
he knows, you know, I'm not playing with the same
level of scouting department. We don't make deals during the deadline.
I mean letting Trey Hendrickson walk and getting nothing for him.
(15:31):
It's just it's to me, it's outrageous, and I think
sometimes fans don't understand, like the most exciting thing about
the Raiders is not Fernando Mendoza and it's not Clint Kobiac.
It's John spytech. You have a competent general manager who's
deal making. So I don't know. I look at I
look at the Bengals letting Trey Hendrickson walk, and I
(15:53):
look at Joe Burrow and I think, God, that division
and the Bengals, for the record, have a bottom ten
offensive line.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Adding too, I at this point in time, I mean,
he signed a contract with a pretty questionable organization. Now
you're young, to offer you a ton of money, It's
it's easy to say, looking back several years, you know
what you're signing up for. It does inevitably have a
feel of like Sean McVay trading three ones, three twos
and three threes for him next offseason when he kind
(16:22):
of makes a stink in demands a trade. I mean,
this thing feels headed toward a weird spot. Now, offensively
they are pretty good, you know, defensively some major question
mark still, but I mean they were kind of in
the mix in a weird way, you know, the last
couple of years with a lot of flaws. So now
Joe's got to stay healthy as well. But I hear you,
(16:42):
I mean they I still think they could be competitive,
and if he plays seventeen games. They're going to be
a playoff level competitive team.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
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I was thinking about this. So the Colts Chris Ballard
last year gave up two firsts for sast Garden or
(18:16):
a corner who is one of the more athletic corners
in the league. The Ravens give up two first for
a great but older Max Crosby. The Rams have made
a habit of it, give up a first and a
third next year for Trent McDuffie, which is interesting because
next year you'd think they want the third because it's
(18:36):
the quarterback draft. And by giving up the first year
this year they're the second first. They're not going to
get Ty Simpson, who many speculated, And by giving up
a third next year, well, what can they What can
they give up? If they have to move up and
get an arch Manning or a top seven or eight quarterback.
It's going to be a great draft for quarterbacks next year.
(18:57):
And I was just wondering watching Chris Ballard and Sauce
Gardner and the Ravens DaCosta do that with Max Crosby,
and I do wonder, John, if this is a copycat league,
if the Rams have had real influence on the way
people look at first round picks, is that thirty percent
are busts, especially if it's the bottom eight to ten
(19:19):
picks in the first round. And I'm just looking at
these organizations, you know, giving up first and second round picks.
Do you think they're the Rams? Because basically they win
a Super Bowl, they have one rebuild year, and they
make the playoffs since and next year they'll be favored
to win the Super Bowl. Do you think the Rams
have a little bit of influence on this.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I I think they're more of an outlier because they
have consistently won when they've made the trades. I mean,
Ballard made that trade, which I respect. I would say
he's known as a conservative. GM is a little unlike
his track record, right to go all in and it
blew up in his face, Sauce got hurt, Daniel Jones
got hurt, Khalil Mack was traded for a couple first
(19:58):
round picks. They they never won a playoff game. I
mean a lot of times, Trey Lance, I mean they
went all in on that move. It blew up in
their face. They got lucky with Perty. I think it's more,
you know, the Ravens. I view the Ravens, the Rams
and the Bills are teams with all their chips in
the middle of the table this year, and if you're
the Rams, like they've been like that for a decade
close so to me, they've been operating pretty consistently like this,
(20:21):
and especially with Matt and I think when you look
at the other two teams, they go, we got two
Hall of Fame quarterbacks. It's now or never. I mean
both guys, like, are they going to be thriving at
thirty seven? I think you'd probably bet against it. The
way Lamar and Josh play during the prime of their career. Now,
I think there are anything less to me than an
AFC championship for either one of those two teams is
a disaster. I think you look at the Colts, do
(20:44):
you think if we were having a cocktail with chrisy Go.
I regret doing the Sauce thing, knowing what I know now.
Right we missed the playoffs, Daniel got hurt. It blew
up in my face. At the time, I thought it
was the right move, But sitting here today, it wasn't
the right move. Well, it just was.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah. I'm not a huge and I've said this before.
I think cornerback is an ego position. So I would
prefer to draft him third round. Down you get a
more humble athlete, because I think if you get drafted high,
first round, middle first round, you know, Patrick Sertans obviously great,
But I do think it's an ego position. I think
you need so much confidence to play corner because you're
(21:20):
I mean, if you go, you get burned constantly and
you have to have a short memory and it cannot
affect you. So what makes the great corners like Deon
Sanders is a remarkable ego and self confidence. Unless it's
a no brainer, and Sauce was arguably the best athlete
in his class. I remember watching him play Notre Dame
in college. I said it on the air, I'm like,
(21:43):
that's the best college football player. I saw all year
was Sauce Gardner when he played Notre Dame, and they's
just like, we're not interested in even going to his
side of the field. But I always think it's a quarterback,
left tackle, defensive tackle or ed rush and these days
weapon I also think centers are undervalued. Ben Johnson goes
out and gets Drew Dolman, Tyler Linderbaum's gonna have a
(22:05):
huge market. So I don't know, like I respected Chris
Pouder doing it. I don't love. I don't love giving
up a lot for corners.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, to me, the corner you know, Jalen Ramsey is
one of the most talented players of the Internet era,
right and the Rams went all in with multiple first
round picks. To me, he's dramatically better than Sauce. I
had someone that was part of the Jets in previous years.
Say one issue Sauce had is they started officiating, you know,
the bump and run and physical corners a little more difficult,
(22:38):
where some of these guys like Patrick Chirtan can do both.
He can get up in you, but he could also
just run with you. Sauce is a four or five
five guy. He needs to bump you he's long, you know,
and it's like once they start throwing flags with him
being really physical, it becomes more difficult. Richard Sherman wanted
to get up in you at the line of scrimmage
(22:59):
and he's huge. He's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw
you around. Derek Stingley, who some consider one of the
best Corns in the league, is like a Dion level athlete.
He's like, I don't even need to touch you. I
just follow you on your hip all over the place.
So to me, you know, McDuffie's got a little of that.
Now he'll tackle and the one thing. So it's like
and again it's it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback.
As things go wrong. My point is when you go
(23:21):
all in on these moves, there's a lot out of
your control, right. I mean, Chris Balldener never thought Daniel
Jones gonna tear as achilles. I mean, he looked like
he was gonna win the MVP of the league. So
you know, no different, like they're gonna need Lamar. The
pressure now on these guys like the Ravens can't just
go ten and seven. There's gonna be expectation on them
(23:41):
to be the number one seed. Same thing with the Bills,
and now these are organizations that are used to winning,
so it's not but both of them have new young
court coaches who I think are really high level guys,
both of them. But that's it's one thing like if
you give a Mike Tomlin, a John or Jim Harbaugh,
this is the first time the guy's ever sitting in
the sea and then it's like, hey, AFC Championship game minimum,
(24:02):
or it's gonna be viewed as a failure, that's right,
And so that's it's just these are intense environments. These
are intense jobs. They're great jobs. We talked about this
with the Packers years ago. It's not very often you
get the DeVante Adams all these some defensive guys. Aaron Rodgers.
I think the Bills and the Ravens are a different
animal because they've never won with these two quarterbacks in terms,
(24:24):
They've never even got to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
And there are quarterbacks Josh and Lamar have taken a
few hits. They're they're odometers, you know, there's there's some
mileage on it. I mean, Lamar last year did not
look burst wise like.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
The same close, not even close.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I mean I think I said at one time I
saw it on a Sunday night football broadcast. I mean,
he was like three miles an hour slower. He just
looked like he looked like an athletic guy, not like
the super freak that we had seen the first five
years in the league.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So yeah, Josh need surgery. Right after the surgery or
right after the season, he was inn he was on
a crutch his for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
So I think that's a reality. Just it was interesting
the Trent McDuffie move, I mean spags multiple players for
the Chiefs. Patrick Mahomes is like, yikes. They all go
publicly to Twitter and the Rams and the Chiefs have
never been as high generally on corners. But I think
for the Rams the move is obvious John because it
(25:22):
is the one liability of a super Bowl team, and
the minute they signed him, they had the odds increased
their super Bowl favorite, so it made a ton of sense.
But I do wonder I said it on the air
and I kind of believe it. I do believe the
Chiefs are in a rebuild. It's not something you advertise,
but if I said to you after Chris Jones had
(25:43):
a below average season, who's their second best player after Mahomes,
I mean carloftis I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
If it would probably be the garter, the center, you know,
and that's who is it. That's not ideal. It's probably
you know, Tray Smith who did not have a good year,
Creed Humphrey. You know, in theory if he probably crazed.
What he could become is the left tackle from Ohio State,
Josh Shimmons. But I mean in the middle of the
season he just disappears. So I mean it's yeah. I mean,
(26:11):
this is a massive draft form. They have the ninth
overall pick and that means the ninth overall pick in
every round, so they could really change the fortunes of
their franchise. I think it's going to be interesting. You know,
historically in football and coach Reed's been a part a
lot of these, you kind of just draw a line
in the sand and be like, listen, we love you.
You're an extremely important player in the history of this organization.
(26:34):
But we're just moving on. John Schneider and how he
have done this countless times, and he's done this manytime.
Travis Kelce like Travis. Listen, we'd have you back, but
for like four million dollars, right, you know, so if
someone else wants to give you twelve or whatever, we
love you. We will build a statue. But like it's
over man. Yeah, And that's what's going to be interesting
(26:55):
these next couple of days. Like, if they're doing that,
then I'd be like, Okay, the Chiefs, they're truly kind
of pivoting into this new era. Belichick did it. They
got they kept Brady, they're keeping ma homes and then
you move into mccordy, Edelman, Gronk right, the high Tower,
and that propelled them. If the Chiefs have an excellent offseason, draft,
a couple of little guys here in free agency, in
(27:16):
a couple of years, they can be back to being
a thirteen or fourteen win team. So it's gonna be
really difficult in this division this year. I think the
Chargers Khalil's back, now, they're gonna be I mean, they
got a chance to compete for the number one seed
for sure. In the Broncos. I mean their talent on
their teams speaks for itself. I mean they were all
over the place offensively this year. And we're the number
one seed. So it's like, I'd be a little shocking,
right if they didn't win eleven twelve games again next year.
(27:39):
So I think the Chiefs you got to look probably
more twenty twenty seven. They also made a decision like
from what I've heard, McDuffie is everything you'd off the field.
He's an A plus on the field, excellent nickel corner,
good outside corner. It's like, well, we can't give, Like
they're in a position now where these numbers are getting huge,
like are we gonna give thirty million dollars? The Rams
(28:00):
really need something? Yeah, it's not that they don't, like
you know, when they got rid of Hill, They're like, yeah,
we don't really trust everything that's going on here. This
was simply a financial like we're not comfortable where the
market is right now, and you're not. At the end
of the day, He's not like Revus or something outside
he's an excellent nickel, good tackler, and he was valuable
(28:22):
to the Rams, clearly. But the Rams were also house
money a little bit, like do they make this trade
if they didn't do the Falcons trade last year and
I have picked thirteen, Like if they only have one
first round pick. I do wonder if they just trade
twenty nine for McDuffie. This trade was easy for them.
They have the thirteenth overall pick, so it's like, yeah,
let's take twenty nine. You know we don't. We rarely
(28:43):
have that pick anyway when we do have that pick,
So I think it was kind of a unique circumstance.
This is where the spy tech. No one came close
to offering a pick as high as fourteen for Max
Crosby and the Chiefs. I don't think anyone in the
first round. I bet most of the teams that wanted
McDuffie were the good teams, and their first pick they
(29:04):
were offering were the second round, which is going to
be in the fifties. So I think both teams got
to a point like, hey, we love these guys. We
could keep playing with these guys, but we also have
to think big picture, and they just got They just
got an amount of money or amount of draft capital they
couldn't refuse. Why both these trades happened so early, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I mean I did this a couple of days ago. John,
we can do this right here, I said, you know,
the great quarterback's got a lot of help. If I
said to you my heard hierarchy my top ten next year,
I would put the Rams today number one. Fair I
will say this, I think Gabe Davis is a really
(29:43):
I think he or DJ Moore, I think DJ Moore
is a really big deal for Buffalo. I think it is.
So I'll pick up buff Two.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Years ago when the Bears were in shambles, he got
like ninety six balls. People act this year was weird
new offense. Him and kleb b had a bunch of
other weapons. People act like DJ Morrison. Guy that's gonna
be in the UFL in two years. Like guys he's
he might not be justin Jefferson the year, but he's
a he's a winning play he's a good player.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Oh he's a I mean, listen, I watched every Bear snap.
The reality is Colston Loveland became such a huge player
for Caleb not shocking. He goes with another young guy,
so like a lot of it's just Luther Burden exploded
at the end of the year. Colston loved it. And
they have a terrific run game. And oh, by the way,
(30:27):
it's Chicago, it gets cold. You don't throw the ball
down the field as much. So I would say Rams
won Buffalo two. I'd probably put Seattle three, and then
then it gets very interesting. I tend to think Detroit
getting Arizona's offensive coordinator because we both like Holmes the GM,
(30:49):
we like their we like their roster. I think Detroit
is gonna, you know, rebound. But then it gets really interesting. God,
I don't want to sound like an LA Homer and
a Chicago Homer, but I would probably do Chargers five,
Chicago Bears six. Am I crazy.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I'd have the Chargers really high. I think there are
a lot of wild card NFC teams. I would put Chicago,
I would put Philly. I would put the Niners. I
think these next two months are really big for them.
You know, they have some holes, they got some moving parts,
you know, I mean the Niners. You know, curveball is
always Kyle. I mean we saw him this year play
(31:30):
Philly in that playoff game. So it's like, if they're
just semi healthy, they're going to be competitive. The Eagles
are just gonna have so many good players every year
because of their GM. So, but they're running the Shanahan
system with Jalen Hurts, with this young quarterback from Oregon State.
You and I've been watching since the PAC twelve and
Sean Manion like, that's good luck to the guy, but
(31:51):
go get ready for the pressure cooker, young fellow, because
that is what a way to start your career. I
think the Giants are gonna be much improved. The Cowboys
have a bunch of amo. If their defense is just decent,
the offense is really good. I think the NFC is
really to me, the AFC, it's pretty clear, like Buffalo
is clearly top notch. If Lamar is solid, the Ravens
are gonna be really good. The Chargers are gonna be awesome.
(32:11):
Denver's gonna be good. I think the NFC goes like
nine or ten deep, because if you tell me again
back to the Jerry trade with Micah Parsons, they are
Micah Parsons injury away from that pick being like, the
Packers look like they were gonna win twelve or thirteen games.
They were killing the Bears in that playoff game until
it unraveled in the second half. I mean, I think
(32:31):
the Packers are pretty good, you know. I think I
think Micah Polson's healthy. This is such a well run organization.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
This is my point though, I look at the look.
I just wrote down my ten favorite teams next year
right now and after free agency Rams, Buffalo, Seattle, Chargers, Chicago, Detroit, Denver, Philly,
Green Bay, Houston. I don't have the Niners. I mean,
I honestly, which is absurd considering I thought Saula and
Shanahan were probably the coaching tandema the year.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, there are so I mean, I think.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Houston going out and getting a running back. It's like,
I mean, because their defense is good, but.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
They are good when they win twelve games. They started
zero to three, so it's I mean, it is, you know,
a sleeper team. I think it was coming on at
the end. Who if they have a high pick in
every round. Is the Saints by the end of the
year that Tyler Shuck looked pretty good and they got
some weapons and divisions a little bit easier. You know,
I think Tampa's got a ton of free agents. We
have to see, like what is really Baker. We've seen
(33:31):
the good and the bad in Tampa. Yeah, you know,
Atlanta's got a ton of moving parts. Carolina, I just
can't buy into the little quarterback. So I could see
the Saints being my team this year that wins like
ten games the division right there. Their schedule is pretty
easy because they finished in the last place. So I
think the NFC, which it was last year, top to bottom.
Even Minnesota they got quarterback issues. They're such a well
(33:52):
coached team. We act like Minnesota in a little bit
like Detroit too had these horrendous seasons because they did
relative to the previous They both went nine to eight.
It's not like they won four games, you know, right,
ask John Morrow what he do for a nine and
eight season, just to have everyone take a deep breath.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
So it's I have I've been very encouraged. Free agency
officially starts Wednesday, but I haven't think but the McDuffie move,
the Max Crosby move, the DJ Moore move, Tyler lindebaum is.
I think if you're paying Lamar and Max, it's gonna
be hard, and Kyle Hamilton, it's gonna be very hard
to pay your center what the market's gonna offer. I
(34:28):
think that's the next big shoot to drop the Giants
or the Raiders get Tyler Lindabaum. Is there anything else
out there, a bomb dropping that you would you think
could happen.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I do think once Dj Moore goes for pick sixty,
you know Howie goes, Well, if I'm gonna trade AJ Brown,
I gotta get at least a top forty pick, right,
So it it gets pretty complicated. Most of the teams drafting,
you know, from like thirty two to thirty nine forty
aren't good. AJ doesn't make that much sense to them.
And then you get into the high twenties, like who's trading?
(35:01):
You know, would Kansas City trade pick twenty nine for
a G. Brown? I know, financially, some of these things
become a little complicated. But the other thing is Alec Pierce.
I mean, when Daniel was healthy, he was really good.
And I saw Albert Breer make this point somewhere that
Mike Rabel's best friend is is the Wisconsin head coach Fickle,
(35:22):
and Fickle was the coach of Cincinnati when he was there.
I mean, this is a six to three guy that
can run and go deep. Well, what does Drake may
do well go deep? What do they just do? Get
rid of step On Diggs? So they're wider now they
do have Kyle Williams, the Washington State guy who's also
a vertical threat. I would be stunned if the Patriots
aren't highly you know, interested in Alec Pierce. But there's
(35:42):
also you know, most of these guys, Max Crosby, we
would talk about getting traded right McDuffie that there was
clear some rumblings like they probably weren't going to resign him,
that they would trade him DJ Moore, it was clear
that they were going to pick one of their offensive
guys there has I mean, these gms are really aggressive.
This has turned much more into baseball. And there are Howie.
When I was around Howie, he was an outlier. He
(36:04):
was ready to do deals. No one would do deals.
Now it feels like there's twenty five guys willing to
make moves at any moment, big money moves. These owners
have way more money, so they'll trade salaries. They don't
care about previous signing bonuses. I would get ready for
just there're gonna be a couple of wild cards these
next g There have been some rumors about Jalen Carter,
the Eagles guy, because he's gonna want forty forty five
(36:25):
million dollars a year. So it's like, are you comfortable
investing in the human being because the players excellent, but
the human it's a risky.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well and the other thing. This is one of the
criticisms I've had with the NBA, and I don't think
Adam Silver. Adam Silver is so concerned about tanking and
dynasties that the NBA now has been replaced by the
NFL and Baseball with trades. Baseball and NFL guys, our
(36:54):
gms are wild day traders.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
The NBA.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
You can't make these big sweeping deals anymore because of
the aprons, and so it's like, God, the NBA does
so many things. They're like people like dynasties were more
distracted because of our phone. It's like, NBA, you want
the Nicks and the Lakers to be good, You really
want them to be good. I'm watching what these gms
are doing in the NFL, and John this used to
(37:20):
be what the NBA did eight years ago, huge stars,
trading teams.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I know. It's it's really crazy what it's become.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Even within its own conference, like Max and now the
Raiders aren't a threat, but in your own conference you traded.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah. I do think the influx of money. I mean,
I tweeted this out yesterday. I think one thing. Football
obviously has a lot going for it, and it's thriving
right now. It does feel the majority of their players
really really care and are really really invested. And like
you said, when these trades happen, all these guys react.
(37:57):
They're just very invested into the game. They're always You
watch these guys' Twitter accounts during college football Saturday. I mean,
they you can't really play football without being an all
in football guy. You can for a minute, but you
will get exposed. You can't have long careers. Most of
the top guys are kind of junkies, you know. I mean,
and I think you watch Max Crosby talking hearing these
(38:19):
stories about Trent McDuffie. I mean, these guys are just
all in. I think one thing the end that hurts
the NBA. It feels like half the people don't care.
And I'm not even just talking about the players and
the coaches, the gms they're actively trying. It's like, do
you guys care as much as the people watching your sport?
Because if you don't, if the entertainment doesn't care, the
consumer is not going to care. And the one thing
football has, you know, the stories are well document about
(38:42):
the coaches, how they're maniacal workers. It feels like the
players aren't that far behind. So it's like, God, they're
as invested as I am watching these games and following
this sport.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Here are two or three things that fans The ratings
and the clicks prove fans love big trade. NBA doesn't
have them, dynasties baseball, NFL regularly has them, and massive passion.
Well load management has been outrageous in the NBA for
(39:13):
like eight to ten years. Just think about the things
that and this isn't just a dump on the NBA,
but don't overthink the room on this shit. Dynasties, big trades,
guys that live that did cry after losses, that deeply care.
You're not getting that with James Harden like you're not
getting that with the NBA. So I thought that. I
(39:36):
thought the Max Crosby comments were very symbolic of why
we love football. I think you really touch on something.
I think Matt and I've been bringing Max on a
couple of times a year for years. I'd see him
at every UFC fight I went to. He would talk
to anybody any time. Stay with Christian McCaffrey, you come
(39:57):
up and talk to Christian mccaffreey, we'll talk your ear off.
And I think that's it's just a relatability that matters.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
And think about this, and I'm going to talk about
this on my podcast. Is that McCaffrey, you know, comes
from I don't want to say NFL royalty, but Ed
was a really good NFL player, went to Stanford, like Christian,
it would max to me, represents the NFL and honestly
kind of society. Didn't go to a school that most
people have heard about. Was not draft. He wasn't even
the first defensive end his own team took in that draft.
(40:25):
They took Cleveland Ferrell in the top five. And when
the dust settles, he just keeps grinding. He had issues
off the field, fixed that, became a great husband, became
a focused guy, started lapping people, and as he got older,
started taking people out in the dust. Because that's the NFL.
Came from a school. It wasn't Alabama or USC. Then
(40:48):
all of a sudden, you look up, the guy's made
nine Pro Bowls and two hundred million dollars. Khalil Mack
just made a I googled it yesterday and like, how
much money is this guy made, but at the end
of next year he'll have made two hundred and twenty
million dollars played a Buffalo and he's stock. He's he
looks incredible last year if it wouldn't have been for
the elbow injury, probably it's ten sacks. So it's like
the NFL is full of guys that, yes, you're gonna
(41:10):
get you know, your Peyton Manning from the sec number
one pick, but you're also gonna get a guy that
was a one year starter that's drafts in the sixth
round become your greatest quarterback of all time. You know,
Joe Montana forever, he was a third round pick who's
six foot one. You know, It's like guys come in
all shapes and sizes, they come all different paths in football.
(41:32):
It's not like some guys have early good starts like
check in after four or five years. Because the NFL
year in year out to be a really good player,
especially in the trenches or a quarterback or a linebacker.
It is. And the other thing, I just think there's
a nature of the sport, whether it's high school, college
or the NFL. Even with nil you're still getting yelled
at at practice, there's a nature your your teammates are
(41:54):
yelling at you. There's a humility that just comes along
with being criticized by your peers and buy your bosses
every single day, which I just think happens less and
less all over. You could argue society, and I think
that helps these NFL guys. They just feel very relatable
when you see him in social settings with just normal
everyday people that they can interact I'd say most of
(42:16):
them pretty easily.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Well, that's why people are so down on Kyler Murray
is he's such an outlier where you're not sure he
loves the sport. That's so rare in football. That's very
common in the NBA, where guys at four o'clock call
up and say, I, you know, I got my ankle hurts.
You know I took a nap, my ankle hurts, and
they don't you know, and I don't. I'm not saying
(42:37):
they're lying, but it's just like you don't play through
certain things.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
So to me, that's why to me Kyler like, I
wouldn't be in that business. And if you are in
the business, whoever does sign them, it shows that that
seems pretty desperate. You know pretty desperate.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
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deliver for America dot Org. I want to throw this
out because you live in Arizona. I actually I actually
(43:57):
said I would have called the Raiders with the number
three pick and offered like three number ones to get
Fernando Mendoza because I think he's the opposite of Kyler Murray.
I think there's a stink around the franchise that it's
just you know, it's you know, like when Tim Tebow
was in Denver and he won a playoff game, he
was wildly popular. They didn't bring in an average quarterback
(44:20):
to replace him. They went Peyton Manning because they knew
that he had a religious connection with fans. He'd won
a playoff game, he was wildly popular merchandise, and I
feel like to replace Kyler, like ty Simpson's like, you know,
you're not going to have any issues coming from Kaylin
de Borr and Nick Saban. It's a big football program. Mendoza,
(44:42):
I mean Ty Simpson. I also think like I think
one of the more interesting players in the first round
is actually ty Simpson because I think he probably grades
out at about thirty five or forty. But if you're
Arizona and you have the third pick, and you're like, okay,
we can get malanoa the offensive lineman from Miami, or
we could trade down several times and at like fifteen
(45:05):
to eighteen draft high Simpson and get another third, fourth fifth.
What would you do if you're an Arizona or you
would you just take the offensive lineman from Miami.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
We're on your trade proposal. I think Spytech would just
have to say no. Even if you go, well, the
Arizona could have the number one pick the following year.
It's almost like the bird in the hand. You know,
the Raiders have been they haven't won a playoff game
in twenty three years. They've only been twice. I think
him and Brady were at that in the Miami National
Championship game and saw him play well, so I think
(45:37):
that was I'm sure they got inquiries. Remember two years
ago everyone wanted Drake May and number three in Elliot
Wolf stayed pretty He's like, now, we're just not interested
in the Giants. Some of these reports of what they
were offered. These are one of those words, Yeah, we'll
call you back. We've got to have a meeting on this,
but you know you got to say no. I'm not
saying that. I'm sure I haven't had speed three. To me,
I'm never a guy like the ty Simpson types. I
(46:00):
would put Mac Jones in this world, you know, Canny
Pickett coming out of college. I can't take those type
guys in the first round. Like I'm not a I
take I have like I understand taking the swings even
when they blow up in your face. On Anthony Richardson
or what the forty nine ers did with Trey Lance,
Uh list Sometimes that looks the worst possible, right Anthony.
(46:21):
It couldn't have gone much worse. Trey Lance was a disaster.
But I get it. To me ty Simpson, I like,
there's a physical kind.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Of limitation, you know.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, there's just you have to you have to check
some boxes for me to pull the trigger. One year
Starter he did have a good stretch and then he
got a little banged up. Well it's like, you don't
think a guy's gonna get banged up in the pros.
He's not the biggest guy all counts. He's a high
level guy. To me, historically, got those guys went like
after pick fifty. Yeah, and I know things have changed,
(46:53):
but like I'm old enough to remember when guys like
Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo went in the second round
so it's like, there's there's no way he is graded
as high as these offensive linemen and defensive lineman. So
I don't think you're gonna be able to trade down.
That's this draft. I mean, some of the best play
you could argue the best two players after the quarterback,
(47:13):
and they might even be graded as better players. But
the quarterback's value so high would be the Notre Dame
running back Jeremiah Love and Caleb Downs. But like usually
people don't take safeties and running backs at like two
or three. I think there's a chance, Colin. I mean,
I claimed I was gonna watch the combine, then all
of a sudden, I found myself, especially the running backs,
(47:33):
certain positions are a little more intriguing. He gave this
interview after they asked him, hey, could you do some
some receiving drills because you know, a Notre Dame they
don't throw it. It's not like they're running the Shanahan
McVeigh offense. And it's like he could have easily after
he ran a four to three five, said the guys,
I undone, everyone would have understood. He did every running
back drill, and then they asked him, hey, could you
(47:55):
these guys want to see you catch it, no problem.
It's like, jeez, I think the Titan at four could
take Jeremiah Love. I wouldn't even overthink it. Get this
star running back. He's like a Bijon Robinson McCaffrey type.
Put him right with your young quarterback. You have his defensive,
tough head coach like I was a whoa well the
Caleb Downs thing. There have been some rumors about the knee.
I haven't heard anything, but like, both those two guys
(48:17):
are gonna be good NFL players.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
The most you know rvel rees people think is a
free athletically, but my take is right now, he's projecting
at certain positions. David Bailey at Texas Tech is a
plug and play rush end. He's not a Bosa. He's
probably probably not Khalil Mack as a prospect. He's not
Aiden Hutchison, but he's good. He's a starter Day one
for anybody in the league. He's a really nice player.
(48:41):
Stanford of Texas Tech good player he already has. He
is a edge rusher. He's the best edge rusher in
the draft. Rvel Reese is an amazing athlete, but he needs
the right coach to make it work, Robert Sala at four.
I trust with Rvel Rees he could say he could
be a little Warner, a little Bosa. I don't trust
(49:01):
Aaron Glenn to find his way to work. I'm not
asking that guy to turn up a project into a
great player. So my take a fascinating pick at number
two is does Aaron Glenn have any smoke in the building,
because I'm telling you he's going get me that guy.
And it's like the ownership has got to be sitting
there thinking how much power are we going to give
Aaron Glenn. Like at the end of last year, John
(49:23):
it had a Freddy Kitchens feel like David Cully where
you're like, wow, this is not a head coach. So
I think the number two pick with the Jets is
fascinating because I would just go get the certain thing.
I would get a Caleb Downs, I'd get a David Bailey,
the offensive lineman who maybe a great guard. Better than
it is not a left tackle, He's a right tackler
(49:45):
or an interior lineman. Rvel Reese to the Jets feels
like trouble.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
I think the Jets are your away from people starting
doing some Eli manning to the Chargers and four some
of these quarterbacks going on, I'm not going there. If
Sam has another good year, you go, no chance. We
haven't seen that in a while. But they got that
written all over them. Because the one thing this is
where Mark Davis deserves credit branding with Brady letting him
(50:11):
get in with these two billionaires. Even they have the
number one pick, but they Spike Tech's a high level guy,
but they don't feel like a number one pick organization
because you know Tom that that name like he brings
them credibility. The Jets to me feel like as bad
as it gets. You know, they got a coach who
said he said at the combine calling plays was a superpower.
It's like, well, then, why didn't you do that last year?
(50:33):
You hired a defensive coordinator that you didn't even know
that you fired in the middle of the year. I
think the Jets they franchise tagged Brishall is a good player,
franchise tagging Breese Hall. I have a theory too on
franchise tags, like in this day and age, with the
size of the cap. If you get to the spot
where you have to franchise tag a player, I'll give
(50:54):
the Falcons a little bit of a pass because their
new administration. But if you've been there with the guy,
you know, Jerry, like you know in October November, like
are you gonna get this guy extension? Just get it done?
You should not be in franchise tag situations are something
you should try to avoid at all costs because you
either know you want to extend this guy a big
picture or it's like let's move on from him. But
(51:16):
to extend a running back who Again, I'm not anti
Brese Hall was like you're the Jets, Like what are
we doing? That one, to me kind of symbolizes like
this organization is. You know, sometimes a narrative takes on
a life its own. I think the Jets have well
this stuff is truly self inflicted and brought upon, like
(51:37):
you know, they deserve what everyone's saying about him.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Yeah, I mean Breece Hall. There's data out there not
to sign a running back to a second contract. So
I think Breece Hall is a good player. I don't
think he had a huge market. I just don't think
he did. So my take was sit him down and
be like we like you, We'll give you a reasonable contract.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, I just look at John Schneider. He drafts Kenneth
high in the second round. Think it was like pick
forty or forty one. The guy has an incredible second
half of the season, leads him. I mean, he's a
huge reason they beat the Rams. Absolutely, he was unobviously
won the Super Bowl MVP, but he was dominant in
that game. But yeah, we're not franchise ttaging. You see
(52:16):
a God speed good luck to you. That's kind of
the NFL. I mean, that's that's what you do. So
it's like, hey, Brice, we appreciate everything you've done. Your
former second round pick here a good talented player, probably
have success somewhere else, but we're not giving you. I
don't even know what the franchise tag is for running
back twelve thirteen million. It's like, what are you doing?
You're not a running back team? Like you have so
many other needs, so many other issues. It made that
(52:38):
that to me was a pretty big head scratcher. Where
are the Falcons? I can understand. It's like, well, it's
Kyle Pitts, who's never really worked for people till last year.
If I'm Stefanski, He's like, let's see if he works
for me? Like I did understand that move, Like instead
of giving him like fifty sixty million dollars guarantee because
he would have got a lot of money on the
open market, Let's just play this out for a year.
(52:58):
If it's not going well, maybe we could trade. I'm
at the middle of the year, and if it does,
we'll extend him in the middle of the season.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
John Middlecoff, former NFL scout. Yeah. Free agency begins in
earnest on Wednesday. A good forty five minutes to.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Chat today, Budd, fun time of year the volume.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment, rate and review
The volume. All right, here we go, John Middlecoff and I.
I don't work tomorrow on TV, so this is my
I was down in Florida all weekend and hanging out
with my wife in Naples. Have you ever gone to Naples, by.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The way, Yeah, back when I was with the Eagles,
they had these scouting meetings at I forget the name
of the place. I mean right on the water. I
think it's about thirty minutes away from Naples. And then
the end you have a week long paid vacation. I'm
with a buddies, like, let's take a I don't even
think ubers existed. Back in twenty thirteen, we hopped in
(00:43):
a cab, went up there, had dinner. It was it
was nice fifteen years ago. I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, it's exploded. Naples, Florida has exploded. I rented a
little with a friend, a little twenty two foot boat
to kind of go around and look at the billionaire
row of homes and my friends in realty. He's like, Oh,
that's boom boom, boom boom. Some people live. Well, that's all.
(01:10):
I'm on a twenty two foot boat looking at thirty
five thousand square foot homes, but it was beautiful. So
you know, listen, let's start with Max Crosby. So I
had said this before. I think he was kind of
the soul of the Raiders, but they're breaking it down
to the foundation. I thought they they may keep Max
(01:30):
because they have like twelve draft picks, eleven or twelve
draft picks, so if they hit on seven or eight
of those, they've got plenty of money. They're not paying
their quarterback for four years, so I would just keep
Max Crosby. But I think you know, they're looking at
he's an older player, still great. But I think I
saw a story today they're interested in Tyler Linderbaum, the
great center from Baltimore, and it's like the Giants and
(01:54):
the Raiders, which I think would be a huge move
because they drafted Jackson Powers Johnson Jackson to Cowers Johnson
JPJ from Oregon, and he didn't play center. He played guard,
so he's more comfortable at guard. He's very good. So
to me, this feels like the Raiders are doing if
(02:14):
they get Tyler Lindebaum. It feels a little bit like
Ben Johnson to the Bears. Here's the quarterback and I'm
gonna get the interior of the old line. I'm gonna
go get now. Drew Dolman just retired after one year
in Chicago. But do you like the Max Crosby deal
for them, especially for the Raiders if they get Tyler
Lindebaum because of the availability to you know, pay him
(02:37):
top of the market.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, I like it simply because it was time, you know.
I think quietly he kind of wanted out. He wasn't
gonna do it, kind of like a Yannis situation, because
he loves the fans, he loves the franchise, Right, Colin,
they got more again. We'll have to see what plays
out next year. The Dallas Cowboys traded Michael Parsons and
they are lucky. I mean, it took a Micah Parson's
(02:59):
injury and a crazy comeback in a playoff game. They
got picked twenty. I didn't quite realize that the moment
the trade was made, and then you give it five minutes.
The Ravens missed the playoffs and win eight and nine,
which sometimes gets you picked eighteen. It's picked fourteen. Yes,
and I think I saw Warren sharp. This is the
highest amount of draft capital any team's ever had because
(03:20):
they got the first pick in every round. You'd rather
have pick one in fourteen than pick eight to nine.
I mean, it is the fourteenth pick that that to
me is where it's like, damn, that was a lot, Colin.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You know. The other thing John to remember is they
already have The Raiders have two ones, A two to three,
three fours, two fives, two sixes. Those top that top
of round two. John, you do the first round. Guys
are making deals, gms are making deals all night. You
could move down seven spots and yeas another third or
(03:53):
a fifth or a fourth. So the Raiders really can
rebuild the entire franch guys quarterback, first pick, fourteenth pick,
you could have the top interior old lineman from Penn State.
You could have the second best corner. I mean you can.
You can do it. You have to probably replace Max
with one of your first three to four picks, you know,
(04:16):
but I mean, I it's the first time because Jackson
powers Johnson. You've got one and Colton Miller left tackle.
Jackson powers Johnson. You add Tyler Lindenbaum. It's like, oh,
this is what the Bears did. So I don't I
can't tell you the last time I was. I think
John Spytech it deserves a lot of credit for this.
(04:36):
How many teams do you think we're interested in Crosby?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
This is why I never understood they won't get two
first round picks. Guys, every playoff team there are fourteen
playoff teams. The Raiders are obviously not even remotely close
to one of them. They were all interested. And then
you get and you then throw in the Cowboys, who
have that ammunition. Think they're gonna be pretty good this
year if they can flip it around on defense. So
(05:03):
I think when the dust settled, you probably had five
teams willing to get really aggressive, but no one could
trump that fourteenth pick. You know, you see stories on
the Jags, you see you know, teams like the Bear.
All these teams are in the twenties, colin in the
mid to late twenties. And then you go, if I
give a max, if I trade them to the Jags
or I trade them to the Bears, well, if they're
in the playoffs again, that's picked twenty five, and next
(05:25):
year that's picked twenty four. Where that's what the what's
the likelihood that the Cowboys pick. I guess they might
have already traded it because they traded for Quinn Williams.
But the way that they had set up to Micah deal,
that was looking like pick twenty eight and pick twenty
eight back to back years, which I'm not opposed, but
when I see I can't believe they the Bills gave
(05:46):
up a second rounder for DJ Moore. Guy, guys, it's
pick sixty. It's not picked thirty seven. These things are
not equal, you know, Colin, I'm in my home, you're
in your home. We're both homeowners. Were not equal if
we sold our home. They're not the same. So it's
like when I see these things get thrown around, Well,
they're offering a first round pick, Well, we're in the
first round because pick fourteen is fantastic. Pick twenty nine,
(06:09):
like the Chiefs, they did well. But pick you'd ask Andy,
would you rather pick? You know, there's a big difference.
There's a big gap. If I would have told you
they would have got the Rams thirteenth overall pick, you
would have been like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
What a hole. Yeah, the Dj Moore pick, to me,
I thought worked for Buffalo because Keon Coleman now there's
no pressure on him to work he had a touchdown
in the game against I think Denver in the playoffs.
So he's a kid, he's a big play kid. But
now you've got your running back, your quarterback, your left tackle,
a very good slot receiver, a number one and if
(06:41):
Keon Coleman is kind of a fifty catch forty three
catch guy, but a big you know, he's sort of
just like Rashid Shaheed for the Seahawks. He's just a
big play guy. About twice a game. You go downfield,
you keep the safeties. Honest, I thought DJ Moore to
Buffalo was a great pick. And you make a great
point on this is that Brett Viach is a very
(07:04):
very good general manager for the Chiefs. I mean, Xavier
Worthy last year at the end of the first round
is kind of I wouldn't say a gadget receiver, but
he's not a volume receiver. Now that's a that's about
as well as you can do late first round, which
is get an explosive first round level athlete. But if
he was a volume receiver McKay lemon usc you'd go
(07:27):
mid first round. And McKay lemon doesn't have Worthy speed
or explosiveness. But you know, you're end of the first round.
I mean years ago the Chiefs kind of whiffed on
a running back out of LSU late first round. So
it's no man's land.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
This is very when you look at the Ravens. I
was reading a couple of stories over the last twenty
four hours. They've never I mean, obviously they've made big
acquisitions on older players or veteran players, you know historically
from Ankwon Boldens to Steve Smith's to Rokewan Smith. Like
they are an aggressive organization. They've never traded a first
round pick for a player, and typically over the Lamar
(08:02):
era they have drafted what I would twenty four to
twenty eight range, right, So they are not This is
a very valuable pick, if memory serves me correct. Kyle
Hamilton was the fourteenth pick in the draft. Now, all
drafts aren't equal, and I'm not saying there's a Kyle
Hamilton in this draft. And my point is that's how
gms think, Like if I'm fourteen, I can get a guy.
(08:23):
I mean, Michah Parsons was the eleventh pick. You know,
Jalen Carter was the ninth pick, where the kid you
just never know how a draft shakes out Laramie Tunzel.
The picture comes out all of a sudden, He's there
at whatever pick ten or eleven. Weird things happen around
the draft. Stories come out, like the Raiders have an
opportunity now. They did this once upon a time, and
I was living in the Bay Area. They had three
(08:45):
first round picks one year because they had traded Khalil
Mack and they had traded Amari Cooper in the same year.
And they whiffed on basically every pick over that run
except for Josh Jacobs. So it is now incumbent on
them to hit the pick. But listen, I've known Spy Tech.
He left Eagles right before I was with him and
Jason Light at the combine. He I think he's really good.
And if you watch Max Crosby's I don't know if
(09:07):
you watched it, it's about his genuine, no notes, just
him talking to have that much loyalty and passion to
a team that he didn't have any success on besides
personally but not as a team. It was you know,
that's just refreshing to see a guy if you're a
Raider fan, this guy really cared about my organization, even
though we're the butt of everyone's jokes. You could tell
it was difficult for him because he kind of hasked
(09:28):
to sign off on this as well. And I just
think that listen, he's you know these coaches, he is
as highly thought of as any one you're gonna find
in the NFL. I mean, he's been sober for six years.
He's in there every morning at five am. He is
a no bullshit guy. He plays the game like he practices,
and he's an impact player at a premium position. The
(09:51):
Ravens ger getting a really really I mean a Hall
of Fame level guy.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So in the last five years, the Ravens have blown
the most fourth quarter leads. Now the last two they're
seventeen and five if Lamar is playing, and they lead
in the fourth quarter. So they're better at it. But
I get I get them saying, Okay, we planned a
division with Joe Burrow, you know, probably Aaron Rodgers, Josh Allen, Mahomes,
(10:22):
Herbert C. J. Strouder in the division. I think what
Baltimore is saying is and I thought Green Bay did
this as well. We're just gonna go it's our Mariano Rivera.
We're gonna go get a closer if because I know
Bill Paulion told me this years ago. He said, when
we drafted Peyton Manning, we knew we would lead most
of our games in the fourth quarter. That's why Dwight
(10:43):
Freeding was so valuable, is that, you know Max. I
said this the other day on FS one. Think how
great Max Crosby was. How often do the Raiders lead
in the fourth Never? Never, there's nine minutes to go,
Teams are running the ball on the Raiders. They're trying
to kill the clock. They don't want players hurt. They're
trying to get out of Vegas and go home. Max
(11:04):
Crosby now is going to be his last twelve snaps
are going to be sacked. But his last twelve snaps
with the Raiders are usually you know, it's a run play.
So I think I think the Ravens are gonna listen.
The bottom line is if Max is a monster for
two years and they get to an AFC championship, you're
going to look at it and go worth it. The
(11:27):
only thing it's funny with the Raiders, John and and
I you being a former scout, So the Raiders have
so many picks now, so two first, the second, the third,
three fourths fists. They can have multiple picks. But Tom
Tellesco told me this years ago. He said, you know,
you have to be careful about being too young. You know.
Let's say you could trade a great player and get
(11:47):
four picks. He said, I'd sometimes rather have three picks
in a player. The Raiders are going to rebuild their franchise,
but people should be patient. But with that many picks,
like I could see the if they have three fourth
round picks, I could see them using two of them
and getting a second third. Like I look at the
Raiders and I think to myself, in that division, it's
(12:09):
not just about making sure your picks can play. You
need impact guys.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, I think. I think one thing they have to
do over the next I don't know three or four days,
is potentially overpay a high level, veteran winning type guy.
You know, get a guy who has been a part
of a winner, who is a high character team leader.
If you got to overpay them, and listen, they got
(12:33):
advantages people like living in Vegas, no state income tax.
It's not like a tough sell in free agency in football.
This isn't basketball or baseball like these guys go where
you give them the most money. And I would imagine
Spike Tech because he can't he game from Tampa, where
by the time Brady got there, they had the infrastructure.
Tom just provided that veteran leadership and now once he left,
(12:54):
all those guys were equipped because they just watched Tom.
And then you had the Vita veas you had them.
You know, Mike Evans was already high level guy. If
I'm the Raiders, Hey, Mike, who's offering you? What? What's
the most you got at ten? Hey Waffery of fifteen,
you know you've already wanted Super Bowl. You're already going
to the Hall of Fame. We will overpay for what
you bring in tangibly to our facility, because, like you said,
(13:16):
you can't put that all on Medoza, you can't put
that all on Carnel Tait or whoever you take with
the fourteenth pick. You're gonna need some guys for them
to look up to. And that was Max, who is
probably as good as anyone, and he's like him Fred Warnerly.
It's a short list of like you could not meet
a human that can say a bad word about these guys.
And then when you factor in how good of a
player they are. But I thought that like it had
(13:40):
come to the you know, the happiest three guys in
the league, not in Baltimore. They're Jim Harbaugh, Andy Reid,
Sean Payton. Because the Raiders have not been a good team,
but they were a pain to play when Max is
playing because he could just throw off. Those are three
offensive guys, you know, Andy, I mean, talk to Andy
about him. I mean he revers Max. I at think I
read something Sean Payton at Max Crosby at Techs yesterday.
(14:02):
So I mean, these guys they don't just they're pretty
numb to good players right now. They view Max as
like high level respect because they also know how bad
that team's been and now good. Remember we turn on
like random Friday night Blackfry or was it Christmas Eve
games and the Raiders are playing the Broncos. It's like, God,
this is hard, you know because Max, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
No, they often played the Chiefs and the Broncos tight.
You know the utter thing I thought about, think about
Joe Burrow. So they let Trey Hendrickson walk instead of
trading him for a really good player, like like the Raiders,
John spy tech smartly did. He got a two first
round picks out of it. The Bengals classic Bengals let
Trey Hendrickson, who's not as good as Max Crosby, but
(14:45):
he's a very good player. They let him walk. So
Burrow now in his division has Max Crosby twice a year,
Miles Garrett twice a year, and DJ Watt twice a year,
and his rush end is gone. I have theori with
I just saw a picture of it was Joe Burrow.
I think it's this offseason in Vegas playing with some
(15:06):
like celebrity and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I think it was just Galba.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And my take is Burrow, just for his sanity, has
really enjoyed his off seasons because I think deep down
he knows, you know, I'm not playing with the same
level of scouting department. We don't make deals during the deadline.
I mean letting Trey Hendrickson walk and getting nothing for him.
(15:31):
It's just it's to me, it's outrageous, and I think
sometimes fans don't understand, like the most exciting thing about
the Raiders is not Fernando Mendoza and it's not Clint Kobiac.
It's John spytech. You have a competent general manager who's
deal making. So I don't know. I look at I
look at the Bengals letting Trey Hendrickson walk, and I
(15:53):
look at Joe Burrow and I think, God, that division
and the Bengals, for the record, have a bottom ten
offensive line.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Adding too, I at this point in time, I mean,
he signed a contract with a pretty questionable organization. Now
you're young, to offer you a ton of money, It's
it's easy to say, looking back several years, you know
what you're signing up for. It does inevitably have a
feel of like Sean McVay trading three ones, three twos
and three threes for him next offseason when he kind
(16:22):
of makes a stink in demands a trade. I mean,
this thing feels headed toward a weird spot. Now, offensively
they are pretty good, you know, defensively some major question
mark still, but I mean they were kind of in
the mix in a weird way, you know, the last
couple of years with a lot of flaws. So now
Joe's got to stay healthy as well. But I hear you,
(16:42):
I mean they I still think they could be competitive,
and if he plays seventeen games. They're going to be
a playoff level competitive team.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
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I was thinking about this. So the Colts Chris Ballard
last year gave up two firsts for sast Garden or
(18:16):
a corner who is one of the more athletic corners
in the league. The Ravens give up two first for
a great but older Max Crosby. The Rams have made
a habit of it, give up a first and a
third next year for Trent McDuffie, which is interesting because
next year you'd think they want the third because it's
(18:36):
the quarterback draft. And by giving up the first year
this year they're the second first. They're not going to
get Ty Simpson, who many speculated, And by giving up
a third next year, well, what can they What can
they give up? If they have to move up and
get an arch Manning or a top seven or eight quarterback.
It's going to be a great draft for quarterbacks next year.
(18:57):
And I was just wondering watching Chris Ballard and Sauce
Gardner and the Ravens DaCosta do that with Max Crosby,
and I do wonder, John, if this is a copycat league,
if the Rams have had real influence on the way
people look at first round picks, is that thirty percent
are busts, especially if it's the bottom eight to ten
(19:19):
picks in the first round. And I'm just looking at
these organizations, you know, giving up first and second round picks.
Do you think they're the Rams? Because basically they win
a Super Bowl, they have one rebuild year, and they
make the playoffs since and next year they'll be favored
to win the Super Bowl. Do you think the Rams
have a little bit of influence on this.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I I think they're more of an outlier because they
have consistently won when they've made the trades. I mean,
Ballard made that trade, which I respect. I would say
he's known as a conservative. GM is a little unlike
his track record, right to go all in and it
blew up in his face, Sauce got hurt, Daniel Jones
got hurt, Khalil Mack was traded for a couple first
(19:58):
round picks. They they never won a playoff game. I
mean a lot of times, Trey Lance, I mean they
went all in on that move. It blew up in
their face. They got lucky with Perty. I think it's more,
you know, the Ravens. I view the Ravens, the Rams
and the Bills are teams with all their chips in
the middle of the table this year, and if you're
the Rams, like they've been like that for a decade
close so to me, they've been operating pretty consistently like this,
(20:21):
and especially with Matt and I think when you look
at the other two teams, they go, we got two
Hall of Fame quarterbacks. It's now or never. I mean
both guys, like, are they going to be thriving at
thirty seven? I think you'd probably bet against it. The
way Lamar and Josh play during the prime of their career. Now,
I think there are anything less to me than an
AFC championship for either one of those two teams is
a disaster. I think you look at the Colts, do
(20:44):
you think if we were having a cocktail with chrisy Go.
I regret doing the Sauce thing, knowing what I know now.
Right we missed the playoffs, Daniel got hurt. It blew
up in my face. At the time, I thought it
was the right move, But sitting here today, it wasn't
the right move. Well, it just was.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah. I'm not a huge and I've said this before.
I think cornerback is an ego position. So I would
prefer to draft him third round. Down you get a
more humble athlete, because I think if you get drafted high,
first round, middle first round, you know, Patrick Sertans obviously great,
But I do think it's an ego position. I think
you need so much confidence to play corner because you're
(21:20):
I mean, if you go, you get burned constantly and
you have to have a short memory and it cannot
affect you. So what makes the great corners like Deon
Sanders is a remarkable ego and self confidence. Unless it's
a no brainer, and Sauce was arguably the best athlete
in his class. I remember watching him play Notre Dame
in college. I said it on the air, I'm like,
(21:43):
that's the best college football player. I saw all year
was Sauce Gardner when he played Notre Dame, and they's
just like, we're not interested in even going to his
side of the field. But I always think it's a quarterback,
left tackle, defensive tackle or ed rush and these days
weapon I also think centers are undervalued. Ben Johnson goes
out and gets Drew Dolman, Tyler Linderbaum's gonna have a
(22:05):
huge market. So I don't know, like I respected Chris
Pouder doing it. I don't love. I don't love giving
up a lot for corners.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, to me, the corner you know, Jalen Ramsey is
one of the most talented players of the Internet era,
right and the Rams went all in with multiple first
round picks. To me, he's dramatically better than Sauce. I
had someone that was part of the Jets in previous years.
Say one issue Sauce had is they started officiating, you know,
the bump and run and physical corners a little more difficult,
(22:38):
where some of these guys like Patrick Chirtan can do both.
He can get up in you, but he could also
just run with you. Sauce is a four or five
five guy. He needs to bump you he's long, you know,
and it's like once they start throwing flags with him
being really physical, it becomes more difficult. Richard Sherman wanted
to get up in you at the line of scrimmage
(22:59):
and he's huge. He's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw
you around. Derek Stingley, who some consider one of the
best Corns in the league, is like a Dion level athlete.
He's like, I don't even need to touch you. I
just follow you on your hip all over the place.
So to me, you know, McDuffie's got a little of that.
Now he'll tackle and the one thing. So it's like
and again it's it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback.
As things go wrong. My point is when you go
(23:21):
all in on these moves, there's a lot out of
your control, right. I mean, Chris Balldener never thought Daniel
Jones gonna tear as achilles. I mean, he looked like
he was gonna win the MVP of the league. So
you know, no different, like they're gonna need Lamar. The
pressure now on these guys like the Ravens can't just
go ten and seven. There's gonna be expectation on them
(23:41):
to be the number one seed. Same thing with the Bills,
and now these are organizations that are used to winning,
so it's not but both of them have new young
court coaches who I think are really high level guys,
both of them. But that's it's one thing like if
you give a Mike Tomlin, a John or Jim Harbaugh,
this is the first time the guy's ever sitting in
the sea and then it's like, hey, AFC Championship game minimum,
(24:02):
or it's gonna be viewed as a failure, that's right,
And so that's it's just these are intense environments. These
are intense jobs. They're great jobs. We talked about this
with the Packers years ago. It's not very often you
get the DeVante Adams all these some defensive guys. Aaron Rodgers.
I think the Bills and the Ravens are a different
animal because they've never won with these two quarterbacks in terms,
(24:24):
They've never even got to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
And there are quarterbacks Josh and Lamar have taken a
few hits. They're they're odometers, you know, there's there's some
mileage on it. I mean, Lamar last year did not
look burst wise like.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
The same close, not even close.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I mean I think I said at one time I
saw it on a Sunday night football broadcast. I mean,
he was like three miles an hour slower. He just
looked like he looked like an athletic guy, not like
the super freak that we had seen the first five
years in the league.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So yeah, Josh need surgery. Right after the surgery or
right after the season, he was inn he was on
a crutch his for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
So I think that's a reality. Just it was interesting
the Trent McDuffie move, I mean spags multiple players for
the Chiefs. Patrick Mahomes is like, yikes. They all go
publicly to Twitter and the Rams and the Chiefs have
never been as high generally on corners. But I think
for the Rams the move is obvious John because it
(25:22):
is the one liability of a super Bowl team, and
the minute they signed him, they had the odds increased
their super Bowl favorite, so it made a ton of sense.
But I do wonder I said it on the air
and I kind of believe it. I do believe the
Chiefs are in a rebuild. It's not something you advertise,
but if I said to you after Chris Jones had
(25:43):
a below average season, who's their second best player after Mahomes,
I mean carloftis I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
If it would probably be the garter, the center, you know,
and that's who is it. That's not ideal. It's probably
you know, Tray Smith who did not have a good year,
Creed Humphrey. You know, in theory if he probably crazed.
What he could become is the left tackle from Ohio State,
Josh Shimmons. But I mean in the middle of the
season he just disappears. So I mean it's yeah. I mean,
(26:11):
this is a massive draft form. They have the ninth
overall pick and that means the ninth overall pick in
every round, so they could really change the fortunes of
their franchise. I think it's going to be interesting. You know,
historically in football and coach Reed's been a part a
lot of these, you kind of just draw a line
in the sand and be like, listen, we love you.
You're an extremely important player in the history of this organization.
(26:34):
But we're just moving on. John Schneider and how he
have done this countless times, and he's done this manytime.
Travis Kelce like Travis. Listen, we'd have you back, but
for like four million dollars, right, you know, so if
someone else wants to give you twelve or whatever, we
love you. We will build a statue. But like it's
over man. Yeah, And that's what's going to be interesting
(26:55):
these next couple of days. Like, if they're doing that,
then I'd be like, Okay, the Chiefs, they're truly kind
of pivoting into this new era. Belichick did it. They
got they kept Brady, they're keeping ma homes and then
you move into mccordy, Edelman, Gronk right, the high Tower,
and that propelled them. If the Chiefs have an excellent offseason, draft,
a couple of little guys here in free agency, in
(27:16):
a couple of years, they can be back to being
a thirteen or fourteen win team. So it's gonna be
really difficult in this division this year. I think the
Chargers Khalil's back, now, they're gonna be I mean, they
got a chance to compete for the number one seed
for sure. In the Broncos. I mean their talent on
their teams speaks for itself. I mean they were all
over the place offensively this year. And we're the number
one seed. So it's like, I'd be a little shocking,
right if they didn't win eleven twelve games again next year.
(27:39):
So I think the Chiefs you got to look probably
more twenty twenty seven. They also made a decision like
from what I've heard, McDuffie is everything you'd off the field.
He's an A plus on the field, excellent nickel corner,
good outside corner. It's like, well, we can't give, Like
they're in a position now where these numbers are getting huge,
like are we gonna give thirty million dollars? The Rams
(28:00):
really need something? Yeah, it's not that they don't, like
you know, when they got rid of Hill, They're like, yeah,
we don't really trust everything that's going on here. This
was simply a financial like we're not comfortable where the
market is right now, and you're not. At the end
of the day, He's not like Revus or something outside
he's an excellent nickel, good tackler, and he was valuable
(28:22):
to the Rams, clearly. But the Rams were also house
money a little bit, like do they make this trade
if they didn't do the Falcons trade last year and
I have picked thirteen, Like if they only have one
first round pick. I do wonder if they just trade
twenty nine for McDuffie. This trade was easy for them.
They have the thirteenth overall pick, so it's like, yeah,
let's take twenty nine. You know we don't. We rarely
(28:43):
have that pick anyway when we do have that pick,
So I think it was kind of a unique circumstance.
This is where the spy tech. No one came close
to offering a pick as high as fourteen for Max
Crosby and the Chiefs. I don't think anyone in the
first round. I bet most of the teams that wanted
McDuffie were the good teams, and their first pick they
(29:04):
were offering were the second round, which is going to
be in the fifties. So I think both teams got
to a point like, hey, we love these guys. We
could keep playing with these guys, but we also have
to think big picture, and they just got They just
got an amount of money or amount of draft capital they
couldn't refuse. Why both these trades happened so early, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I mean I did this a couple of days ago. John,
we can do this right here, I said, you know,
the great quarterback's got a lot of help. If I
said to you my heard hierarchy my top ten next year,
I would put the Rams today number one. Fair I
will say this, I think Gabe Davis is a really
(29:43):
I think he or DJ Moore, I think DJ Moore
is a really big deal for Buffalo. I think it is.
So I'll pick up buff Two.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Years ago when the Bears were in shambles, he got
like ninety six balls. People act this year was weird
new offense. Him and kleb b had a bunch of
other weapons. People act like DJ Morrison. Guy that's gonna
be in the UFL in two years. Like guys he's
he might not be justin Jefferson the year, but he's
a he's a winning play he's a good player.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Oh he's a I mean, listen, I watched every Bear snap.
The reality is Colston Loveland became such a huge player
for Caleb not shocking. He goes with another young guy,
so like a lot of it's just Luther Burden exploded
at the end of the year. Colston loved it. And
they have a terrific run game. And oh, by the way,
(30:27):
it's Chicago, it gets cold. You don't throw the ball
down the field as much. So I would say Rams
won Buffalo two. I'd probably put Seattle three, and then
then it gets very interesting. I tend to think Detroit
getting Arizona's offensive coordinator because we both like Holmes the GM,
(30:49):
we like their we like their roster. I think Detroit
is gonna, you know, rebound. But then it gets really interesting. God,
I don't want to sound like an LA Homer and
a Chicago Homer, but I would probably do Chargers five,
Chicago Bears six. Am I crazy.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I'd have the Chargers really high. I think there are
a lot of wild card NFC teams. I would put Chicago,
I would put Philly. I would put the Niners. I
think these next two months are really big for them.
You know, they have some holes, they got some moving parts,
you know, I mean the Niners. You know, curveball is
always Kyle. I mean we saw him this year play
(31:30):
Philly in that playoff game. So it's like, if they're
just semi healthy, they're going to be competitive. The Eagles
are just gonna have so many good players every year
because of their GM. So, but they're running the Shanahan
system with Jalen Hurts, with this young quarterback from Oregon State.
You and I've been watching since the PAC twelve and
Sean Manion like, that's good luck to the guy, but
(31:51):
go get ready for the pressure cooker, young fellow, because
that is what a way to start your career. I
think the Giants are gonna be much improved. The Cowboys
have a bunch of amo. If their defense is just decent,
the offense is really good. I think the NFC is
really to me, the AFC, it's pretty clear, like Buffalo
is clearly top notch. If Lamar is solid, the Ravens
are gonna be really good. The Chargers are gonna be awesome.
(32:11):
Denver's gonna be good. I think the NFC goes like
nine or ten deep, because if you tell me again
back to the Jerry trade with Micah Parsons, they are
Micah Parsons injury away from that pick being like, the
Packers look like they were gonna win twelve or thirteen games.
They were killing the Bears in that playoff game until
it unraveled in the second half. I mean, I think
(32:31):
the Packers are pretty good, you know. I think I
think Micah Polson's healthy. This is such a well run organization.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
This is my point though, I look at the look.
I just wrote down my ten favorite teams next year
right now and after free agency Rams, Buffalo, Seattle, Chargers, Chicago, Detroit, Denver, Philly,
Green Bay, Houston. I don't have the Niners. I mean,
I honestly, which is absurd considering I thought Saula and
Shanahan were probably the coaching tandema the year.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, there are so I mean, I think.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Houston going out and getting a running back. It's like,
I mean, because their defense is good, but.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
They are good when they win twelve games. They started
zero to three, so it's I mean, it is, you know,
a sleeper team. I think it was coming on at
the end. Who if they have a high pick in
every round. Is the Saints by the end of the
year that Tyler Shuck looked pretty good and they got
some weapons and divisions a little bit easier. You know,
I think Tampa's got a ton of free agents. We
have to see, like what is really Baker. We've seen
(33:31):
the good and the bad in Tampa. Yeah, you know,
Atlanta's got a ton of moving parts. Carolina, I just
can't buy into the little quarterback. So I could see
the Saints being my team this year that wins like
ten games the division right there. Their schedule is pretty
easy because they finished in the last place. So I
think the NFC, which it was last year, top to bottom.
Even Minnesota they got quarterback issues. They're such a well
(33:52):
coached team. We act like Minnesota in a little bit
like Detroit too had these horrendous seasons because they did
relative to the previous They both went nine to eight.
It's not like they won four games, you know, right,
ask John Morrow what he do for a nine and
eight season, just to have everyone take a deep breath.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
So it's I have I've been very encouraged. Free agency
officially starts Wednesday, but I haven't think but the McDuffie move,
the Max Crosby move, the DJ Moore move, Tyler lindebaum is.
I think if you're paying Lamar and Max, it's gonna
be hard, and Kyle Hamilton, it's gonna be very hard
to pay your center what the market's gonna offer. I
(34:28):
think that's the next big shoot to drop the Giants
or the Raiders get Tyler Lindabaum. Is there anything else
out there, a bomb dropping that you would you think
could happen.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I do think once Dj Moore goes for pick sixty,
you know Howie goes, Well, if I'm gonna trade AJ Brown,
I gotta get at least a top forty pick, right,
So it it gets pretty complicated. Most of the teams drafting,
you know, from like thirty two to thirty nine forty
aren't good. AJ doesn't make that much sense to them.
And then you get into the high twenties, like who's trading?
(35:01):
You know, would Kansas City trade pick twenty nine for
a G. Brown? I know, financially, some of these things
become a little complicated. But the other thing is Alec Pierce.
I mean, when Daniel was healthy, he was really good.
And I saw Albert Breer make this point somewhere that
Mike Rabel's best friend is is the Wisconsin head coach Fickle,
(35:22):
and Fickle was the coach of Cincinnati when he was there.
I mean, this is a six to three guy that
can run and go deep. Well, what does Drake may
do well go deep? What do they just do? Get
rid of step On Diggs? So they're wider now they
do have Kyle Williams, the Washington State guy who's also
a vertical threat. I would be stunned if the Patriots
aren't highly you know, interested in Alec Pierce. But there's
(35:42):
also you know, most of these guys, Max Crosby, we
would talk about getting traded right McDuffie that there was
clear some rumblings like they probably weren't going to resign him,
that they would trade him DJ Moore, it was clear
that they were going to pick one of their offensive
guys there has I mean, these gms are really aggressive.
This has turned much more into baseball. And there are Howie.
When I was around Howie, he was an outlier. He
(36:04):
was ready to do deals. No one would do deals.
Now it feels like there's twenty five guys willing to
make moves at any moment, big money moves. These owners
have way more money, so they'll trade salaries. They don't
care about previous signing bonuses. I would get ready for
just there're gonna be a couple of wild cards these
next g There have been some rumors about Jalen Carter,
the Eagles guy, because he's gonna want forty forty five
(36:25):
million dollars a year. So it's like, are you comfortable
investing in the human being because the players excellent, but
the human it's a risky.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well and the other thing. This is one of the
criticisms I've had with the NBA, and I don't think
Adam Silver. Adam Silver is so concerned about tanking and
dynasties that the NBA now has been replaced by the
NFL and Baseball with trades. Baseball and NFL guys, our
(36:54):
gms are wild day traders.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
The NBA.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
You can't make these big sweeping deals anymore because of
the aprons, and so it's like, God, the NBA does
so many things. They're like people like dynasties were more
distracted because of our phone. It's like, NBA, you want
the Nicks and the Lakers to be good, You really
want them to be good. I'm watching what these gms
are doing in the NFL, and John this used to
(37:20):
be what the NBA did eight years ago, huge stars,
trading teams.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I know. It's it's really crazy what it's become.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Even within its own conference, like Max and now the
Raiders aren't a threat, but in your own conference you traded.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah. I do think the influx of money. I mean,
I tweeted this out yesterday. I think one thing. Football
obviously has a lot going for it, and it's thriving
right now. It does feel the majority of their players
really really care and are really really invested. And like
you said, when these trades happen, all these guys react.
(37:57):
They're just very invested into the game. They're always You
watch these guys' Twitter accounts during college football Saturday. I mean,
they you can't really play football without being an all
in football guy. You can for a minute, but you
will get exposed. You can't have long careers. Most of
the top guys are kind of junkies, you know. I mean,
and I think you watch Max Crosby talking hearing these
(38:19):
stories about Trent McDuffie. I mean, these guys are just
all in. I think one thing the end that hurts
the NBA. It feels like half the people don't care.
And I'm not even just talking about the players and
the coaches, the gms they're actively trying. It's like, do
you guys care as much as the people watching your sport?
Because if you don't, if the entertainment doesn't care, the
consumer is not going to care. And the one thing
football has, you know, the stories are well document about
(38:42):
the coaches, how they're maniacal workers. It feels like the
players aren't that far behind. So it's like, God, they're
as invested as I am watching these games and following
this sport.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Here are two or three things that fans The ratings
and the clicks prove fans love big trade. NBA doesn't
have them, dynasties baseball, NFL regularly has them, and massive passion.
Well load management has been outrageous in the NBA for
(39:13):
like eight to ten years. Just think about the things
that and this isn't just a dump on the NBA,
but don't overthink the room on this shit. Dynasties, big trades,
guys that live that did cry after losses, that deeply care.
You're not getting that with James Harden like you're not
getting that with the NBA. So I thought that. I
(39:36):
thought the Max Crosby comments were very symbolic of why
we love football. I think you really touch on something.
I think Matt and I've been bringing Max on a
couple of times a year for years. I'd see him
at every UFC fight I went to. He would talk
to anybody any time. Stay with Christian McCaffrey, you come
(39:57):
up and talk to Christian mccaffreey, we'll talk your ear off.
And I think that's it's just a relatability that matters.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
And think about this, and I'm going to talk about
this on my podcast. Is that McCaffrey, you know, comes
from I don't want to say NFL royalty, but Ed
was a really good NFL player, went to Stanford, like Christian,
it would max to me, represents the NFL and honestly
kind of society. Didn't go to a school that most
people have heard about. Was not draft. He wasn't even
the first defensive end his own team took in that draft.
(40:25):
They took Cleveland Ferrell in the top five. And when
the dust settles, he just keeps grinding. He had issues
off the field, fixed that, became a great husband, became
a focused guy, started lapping people, and as he got older,
started taking people out in the dust. Because that's the NFL.
Came from a school. It wasn't Alabama or USC. Then
(40:48):
all of a sudden, you look up, the guy's made
nine Pro Bowls and two hundred million dollars. Khalil Mack
just made a I googled it yesterday and like, how
much money is this guy made, but at the end
of next year he'll have made two hundred and twenty
million dollars played a Buffalo and he's stock. He's he
looks incredible last year if it wouldn't have been for
the elbow injury, probably it's ten sacks. So it's like
the NFL is full of guys that, yes, you're gonna
(41:10):
get you know, your Peyton Manning from the sec number
one pick, but you're also gonna get a guy that
was a one year starter that's drafts in the sixth
round become your greatest quarterback of all time. You know,
Joe Montana forever, he was a third round pick who's
six foot one. You know, It's like guys come in
all shapes and sizes, they come all different paths in football.
(41:32):
It's not like some guys have early good starts like
check in after four or five years. Because the NFL
year in year out to be a really good player,
especially in the trenches or a quarterback or a linebacker.
It is. And the other thing, I just think there's
a nature of the sport, whether it's high school, college
or the NFL. Even with nil you're still getting yelled
at at practice, there's a nature your your teammates are
(41:54):
yelling at you. There's a humility that just comes along
with being criticized by your peers and buy your bosses
every single day, which I just think happens less and
less all over. You could argue society, and I think
that helps these NFL guys. They just feel very relatable
when you see him in social settings with just normal
everyday people that they can interact I'd say most of
(42:16):
them pretty easily.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Well, that's why people are so down on Kyler Murray
is he's such an outlier where you're not sure he
loves the sport. That's so rare in football. That's very
common in the NBA, where guys at four o'clock call
up and say, I, you know, I got my ankle hurts.
You know I took a nap, my ankle hurts, and
they don't you know, and I don't. I'm not saying
(42:37):
they're lying, but it's just like you don't play through
certain things.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
So to me, that's why to me Kyler like, I
wouldn't be in that business. And if you are in
the business, whoever does sign them, it shows that that
seems pretty desperate. You know pretty desperate.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
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deliver for America dot Org. I want to throw this
out because you live in Arizona. I actually I actually
(43:57):
said I would have called the Raiders with the number
three pick and offered like three number ones to get
Fernando Mendoza because I think he's the opposite of Kyler Murray.
I think there's a stink around the franchise that it's
just you know, it's you know, like when Tim Tebow
was in Denver and he won a playoff game, he
was wildly popular. They didn't bring in an average quarterback
(44:20):
to replace him. They went Peyton Manning because they knew
that he had a religious connection with fans. He'd won
a playoff game, he was wildly popular merchandise, and I
feel like to replace Kyler, like ty Simpson's like, you know,
you're not going to have any issues coming from Kaylin
de Borr and Nick Saban. It's a big football program. Mendoza,
(44:42):
I mean Ty Simpson. I also think like I think
one of the more interesting players in the first round
is actually ty Simpson because I think he probably grades
out at about thirty five or forty. But if you're
Arizona and you have the third pick, and you're like, okay,
we can get malanoa the offensive lineman from Miami, or
we could trade down several times and at like fifteen
(45:05):
to eighteen draft high Simpson and get another third, fourth fifth.
What would you do if you're an Arizona or you
would you just take the offensive lineman from Miami.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
We're on your trade proposal. I think Spytech would just
have to say no. Even if you go, well, the
Arizona could have the number one pick the following year.
It's almost like the bird in the hand. You know,
the Raiders have been they haven't won a playoff game
in twenty three years. They've only been twice. I think
him and Brady were at that in the Miami National
Championship game and saw him play well, so I think
(45:37):
that was I'm sure they got inquiries. Remember two years
ago everyone wanted Drake May and number three in Elliot
Wolf stayed pretty He's like, now, we're just not interested
in the Giants. Some of these reports of what they
were offered. These are one of those words, Yeah, we'll
call you back. We've got to have a meeting on this,
but you know you got to say no. I'm not
saying that. I'm sure I haven't had speed three. To me,
I'm never a guy like the ty Simpson types. I
(46:00):
would put Mac Jones in this world, you know, Canny
Pickett coming out of college. I can't take those type
guys in the first round. Like I'm not a I
take I have like I understand taking the swings even
when they blow up in your face. On Anthony Richardson
or what the forty nine ers did with Trey Lance,
Uh list Sometimes that looks the worst possible, right Anthony.
(46:21):
It couldn't have gone much worse. Trey Lance was a disaster.
But I get it. To me ty Simpson, I like,
there's a physical kind.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Of limitation, you know.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, there's just you have to you have to check
some boxes for me to pull the trigger. One year
Starter he did have a good stretch and then he
got a little banged up. Well it's like, you don't
think a guy's gonna get banged up in the pros.
He's not the biggest guy all counts. He's a high
level guy. To me, historically, got those guys went like
after pick fifty. Yeah, and I know things have changed,
(46:53):
but like I'm old enough to remember when guys like
Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo went in the second round
so it's like, there's there's no way he is graded
as high as these offensive linemen and defensive lineman. So
I don't think you're gonna be able to trade down.
That's this draft. I mean, some of the best play
you could argue the best two players after the quarterback,
(47:13):
and they might even be graded as better players. But
the quarterback's value so high would be the Notre Dame
running back Jeremiah Love and Caleb Downs. But like usually
people don't take safeties and running backs at like two
or three. I think there's a chance, Colin. I mean,
I claimed I was gonna watch the combine, then all
of a sudden, I found myself, especially the running backs,
(47:33):
certain positions are a little more intriguing. He gave this
interview after they asked him, hey, could you do some
some receiving drills because you know, a Notre Dame they
don't throw it. It's not like they're running the Shanahan
McVeigh offense. And it's like he could have easily after
he ran a four to three five, said the guys,
I undone, everyone would have understood. He did every running
back drill, and then they asked him, hey, could you
(47:55):
these guys want to see you catch it, no problem.
It's like, jeez, I think the Titan at four could
take Jeremiah Love. I wouldn't even overthink it. Get this
star running back. He's like a Bijon Robinson McCaffrey type.
Put him right with your young quarterback. You have his defensive,
tough head coach like I was a whoa well the
Caleb Downs thing. There have been some rumors about the knee.
I haven't heard anything, but like, both those two guys
(48:17):
are gonna be good NFL players.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
The most you know rvel rees people think is a
free athletically, but my take is right now, he's projecting
at certain positions. David Bailey at Texas Tech is a
plug and play rush end. He's not a Bosa. He's
probably probably not Khalil Mack as a prospect. He's not
Aiden Hutchison, but he's good. He's a starter Day one
for anybody in the league. He's a really nice player.
(48:41):
Stanford of Texas Tech good player he already has. He
is a edge rusher. He's the best edge rusher in
the draft. Rvel Reese is an amazing athlete, but he needs
the right coach to make it work, Robert Sala at four.
I trust with Rvel Rees he could say he could
be a little Warner, a little Bosa. I don't trust
(49:01):
Aaron Glenn to find his way to work. I'm not
asking that guy to turn up a project into a
great player. So my take a fascinating pick at number
two is does Aaron Glenn have any smoke in the building,
because I'm telling you he's going get me that guy.
And it's like the ownership has got to be sitting
there thinking how much power are we going to give
Aaron Glenn. Like at the end of last year, John
(49:23):
it had a Freddy Kitchens feel like David Cully where
you're like, wow, this is not a head coach. So
I think the number two pick with the Jets is
fascinating because I would just go get the certain thing.
I would get a Caleb Downs, I'd get a David Bailey,
the offensive lineman who maybe a great guard. Better than
it is not a left tackle, He's a right tackler
(49:45):
or an interior lineman. Rvel Reese to the Jets feels
like trouble.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
I think the Jets are your away from people starting
doing some Eli manning to the Chargers and four some
of these quarterbacks going on, I'm not going there. If
Sam has another good year, you go, no chance. We
haven't seen that in a while. But they got that
written all over them. Because the one thing this is
where Mark Davis deserves credit branding with Brady letting him
(50:11):
get in with these two billionaires. Even they have the
number one pick, but they Spike Tech's a high level guy,
but they don't feel like a number one pick organization
because you know Tom that that name like he brings
them credibility. The Jets to me feel like as bad
as it gets. You know, they got a coach who
said he said at the combine calling plays was a superpower.
It's like, well, then, why didn't you do that last year?
(50:33):
You hired a defensive coordinator that you didn't even know
that you fired in the middle of the year. I
think the Jets they franchise tagged Brishall is a good player,
franchise tagging Breese Hall. I have a theory too on
franchise tags, like in this day and age, with the
size of the cap. If you get to the spot
where you have to franchise tag a player, I'll give
(50:54):
the Falcons a little bit of a pass because their
new administration. But if you've been there with the guy,
you know, Jerry, like you know in October November, like
are you gonna get this guy extension? Just get it done?
You should not be in franchise tag situations are something
you should try to avoid at all costs because you
either know you want to extend this guy a big
picture or it's like let's move on from him. But
(51:16):
to extend a running back who Again, I'm not anti
Brese Hall was like you're the Jets, Like what are
we doing? That one, to me kind of symbolizes like
this organization is. You know, sometimes a narrative takes on
a life its own. I think the Jets have well
this stuff is truly self inflicted and brought upon, like
(51:37):
you know, they deserve what everyone's saying about him.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Yeah, I mean Breece Hall. There's data out there not
to sign a running back to a second contract. So
I think Breece Hall is a good player. I don't
think he had a huge market. I just don't think
he did. So my take was sit him down and
be like we like you, We'll give you a reasonable contract.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, I just look at John Schneider. He drafts Kenneth
high in the second round. Think it was like pick
forty or forty one. The guy has an incredible second
half of the season, leads him. I mean, he's a
huge reason they beat the Rams. Absolutely, he was unobviously
won the Super Bowl MVP, but he was dominant in
that game. But yeah, we're not franchise ttaging. You see
(52:16):
a God speed good luck to you. That's kind of
the NFL. I mean, that's that's what you do. So
it's like, hey, Brice, we appreciate everything you've done. Your
former second round pick here a good talented player, probably
have success somewhere else, but we're not giving you. I
don't even know what the franchise tag is for running
back twelve thirteen million. It's like, what are you doing?
You're not a running back team? Like you have so
many other needs, so many other issues. It made that
(52:38):
that to me was a pretty big head scratcher. Where
are the Falcons? I can understand. It's like, well, it's
Kyle Pitts, who's never really worked for people till last year.
If I'm Stefanski, He's like, let's see if he works
for me? Like I did understand that move, Like instead
of giving him like fifty sixty million dollars guarantee because
he would have got a lot of money on the
open market, Let's just play this out for a year.
(52:58):
If it's not going well, maybe we could trade. I'm
at the middle of the year, and if it does,
we'll extend him in the middle of the season.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
John Middlecoff, former NFL scout. Yeah. Free agency begins in
earnest on Wednesday. A good forty five minutes to.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Chat today, Budd, fun time of year the volume.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment, rate and review
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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