Colin is joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1
They start with Spain upsetting France in the World Cup semifinal in a game where they dominated defensively and smothered France’s vaunted attack and has the potential to turn in the greatest defensive performance ever in a World Cup (3:30).
They make their predictions for the impact of this World Cup on the future of soccer’s popularity in America (12:00) and agree that the passion and consumption of the World Cup shown by American fans has been absolutely remarkable (22:30).
Colin defends his NFL quarterback rankings and his take that Caleb Williams is the third best quarterback in the league, but gets some grief from Danny (31:00).
They react to WNBA commissioner Kathy Engelbert bailing on her interview with Dan Patrick and argue that Dan had every right to be upset publicly, and that the WNBA was completely unprepared to capitalize on the superstardom of Caitlin Clark (40:30).
Finally, they react to Bulls #4 overall pick Caleb Wilson’s standout performance in summer league (53:00) and discuss their favorite stand-up comedians (1:00:00).
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All right, Danny Parkins joining me, Spain upset France. I'm
(02:03):
going to show you just to give you some example
of how into the World Cup I've been. So Didier Deschamp,
the manager of France Leaves and Zennida Zidon. The fact
I got close on those, it's really an achievement.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You're crushing it, Colin, you're crushing it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But seriously, I thought, France, you know, it's really remarkable
how Spain matches up with France, so basically until the end,
I mean, France had one shot on goal, I mean,
and then they got a couple at the end. Spain
dominates possession. Spain's won thirty seven matches without losing. They
(02:51):
controlled possession. It reminded me a little bit in the
first few minutes, a little bit of United States Belgium,
where you watch this hyper aggressive team and within ninety
seconds we are pinned deep in our territory and we
can't get it out. And I'm watching Spain do the
same thing to France, where France can't maintain possessions, they're
(03:13):
pinned deep. Spain had multiple opportunities and like our goalie,
the goalie for France, you know, by no means lost
the game, but was a little indecisive, was a little
sketchy early. But I was just taken by and soccer
(03:33):
can do this almost like no other sport, an incredibly gifted,
confident team. Within ninety seconds, it is basically holding on
for dear life. And it just jumped through the television to.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Me, Yeah, we got to do We were like the
We're the second post game show. You know, I'm sure
the majority of people were with Laton and Thieri and
Alexi and Rebecca, but if you cheer switched over to
FS one. We did an hour of post on it
and I was really proud of it. I thought we
did a good job at the ot. It was listen.
(04:09):
I picked Spain in the game. I picked Spain before
the tournament to win it. The frontline attacking of France
is remarkable. Spain's allowed one goal all tournament. Spain beat
France in the Euros in twenty twenty four, Spain beat
France in the Semis, by the way, in the Euros,
they beat him in the Semis of the Nation's League
(04:30):
in twenty twenty five, and they just beat him in
the Semis of the twenty twenty six World Cup. So
the thirty seven match streak for Spain that you're talking about, Yeah,
but three of them will come against France like they
just their defense knows what to do, and I thought
it was suffocating. And sometimes I think like a little
thing can happen and it can balloon to a medium
(04:51):
sized thing and then a large thing, and it was
just a snowball effect for France. Like they got a
yellow card in the eighth minute, they allowed the goal
in the twenty second minute after the penalty on Jamal
allows for the free kick for oh yards of ball,
then they're probably second best defensive player gets from that
in the twenty ninth minute, and all of a sudden,
(05:12):
you're thirty minutes into the game. You're trailing for the
first time you have all tournament one of your players
as a yellow card. Another of your players has had
to sub out that you fouled their nineteen year old
phenom and like, oh, play where there was not really
any chance of giving up a goal in that spot,
and you give up a goal and you're down one nothing,
and it just it got away from him really quick,
(05:34):
and trailing a team like Spain, I mean Spain has
allowed one goal the whole tournament. The record, the World's
Cup record for a World Cup champion is two. It's
been done three times. So we went we're going to
go from like if Spain shuts out Argentina or England,
we will go from weeks of talking about this is
(05:57):
France's World's Cup to lose. France is the best offense
team we've ever seen. France is the best collection of
offensive talent we've ever seen. So it will immediately pivot
to Spain just turned in the best defensive performance in
the history of the World's God.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You know we've said this before, is that great defense
when it meets a great offense, the defense almost always wins.
It's almost always because what you're doing. A great defense
speeds up everything you do offensively. So in France was
struggling to maintain possessions. It's like I've used the example before.
(06:32):
If you're a you know, you're a typist and you
type sixty words a minute and I say type ninety,
you make more mistakes. Right Like if you watched we
knew the Patriots oline wasn't great against the Seahawks defensive front.
Everything New England did had to be a beat and
a half faster, and their efficiency drops through the floor.
I mean, that's what's if you go look at Mahomes
(06:53):
the last two years, no run game, below average protection
against good teams. His efficiency Patrick Mahomes falls through the floor.
Is on target percentage dropped, all the efficiency stuff dropped,
and he's the best quarterback in the world until then.
So I think it's one of those I just sort
of thought, well, France has an all star team but
(07:14):
you know, it's another example of a great defense kind
of suffocating and taking a great offense out of its element.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
There's no question that's what happened. It's what I mean,
it's what they did to Portugal. Not that there is
great of an offense, but like France, Spain hasn't really
been in danger of losing. Like they had the draw
against cape Verde early, which I think turned everybody off
to Spain. Right their best player, La Mega Mal started
(07:47):
the tournament coming off of the hamstring injury, so he
only played fifty two minutes in the first two matches,
and then they had the weird draw to Cape Verde,
which ended up aging pretty well because cape Verde took
Argentina to the break to the brank and lost three
to an extra time and the whole thing. So like
not as embarrassing of a result for Spain. But I
(08:07):
think what happened in this World's Cup was because Harry
Kane and Jude Bellinghen and Messi and in Bape and
all of the stars on the star Leyden teams were
scoring a ton of goals and it was like, well,
Spain's not scoring a ton of goals and their star
isn't the guy that we hyped up is like, this
is the next Pele, this is the phenom Yamal is
(08:29):
this eighteen year old wizard and all that. But he's
had like a slow, weird World Cup. Everyone's just been
talking about the goals scoring because offense is easier for
us to consume, and the Golden boot race and you
put up a leader board and then it's like, oh, wait,
Spain's allowed one goal the whole tournament, right, Okay, yeah,
they're probably gonna win.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, it's it's been remarkable. And I said this that
there is not Erling Holland today is more well known
than any hockey hockey player outside of Wayne Gretzky in
my life.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I mean, if you go Earling Holland now as sixty
six million followers on Instagram, the top IG performer in
the NHL has two IG's not everything, but it's something.
It's a pretty good indicator of global stardom. And I
said this, when Tiger entered the PGA, it spiked, but
(09:30):
when he took certain tournaments off, the ratings went away.
Because golf has always been and I love it, fairly elitist.
It's hard lots of people start and quit. Very few
people actually play at a high level. Caitlin Clark comes
to the WNBA, it spikes to this day when she plays,
a million people watch she doesn't three hundred and fifty thousand.
(09:51):
Soccer's different, We're out. The numbers are still remarkable. And
so if you're asking staying power, much more than golf,
much more than tennis, much more than hockey, you can
have sensational star players. And I'm not saying it's the NFL,
but what I've watched from attendance, this is non USA games,
(10:14):
from attendance to merchandise to passion. When we're not playing,
where do we put it in our sports ecosystem?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So I heard this take from you earlier today, and
I guess what I would say is, this is a
perfect storm of events that is happening. It's it's in
our time zone, so we can we can watch every game.
The stars are playing and playing well, scoring goals. Like
(10:46):
I just mentioned, the Marquee brands are advancing deep like
we didn't just get Egypt Switzerland, we got Spain, France.
That helps. And the World's Cup is awesome. And I
have no doubt that my six year old. I've told
you about him before, like he now has a couple
of soccer jerseys, he went to a soccer camp, like
I have no doubt at all that millions and millions
(11:08):
of people will play soccer and it will continue to grow.
I do have some skepticism that, like the MLS is
about to become more popular than the NBA. I don't
think that. I don't think that because I think in
my experience as someone who falls for soccer every World's Cup,
it is hard to transition back to the MLS when
(11:32):
the talent is just so noticeably less and the intensity
is noticeably less, even if it is growing and good business.
And I wish I would have bought it ten years
ago when you tried to. But like, I'm not waking
up at six in the morning and watching the EPL,
which is at least like a closer level of talent
to these World Cup games. So it's like when you
(11:53):
go back and watch the American soccer the MLS in
our time zones, and it's three or five levels lower
than what we're watching right now. I don't know that
that momentum is going to carry where I can say
that soccer is going to still be in the American zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
But it's interesting because we love I've gone to Wimbledon. Well,
the only major sporting event I haven't gone to and
I want to is the US Open, but it always
falls in late August. I'm on vacation this year. I
may go for in Flushing Meadows for a night. It's
supposed to be just just a rocking event, just in
a remarkable by.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
The way, I hadn't done it until I moved to
New York. Nick had been telling me to do it.
I've done it the last two years. Come out, let's
go together, you me, and is it fun? Oh my god,
it's awesome. And you'll get us good seats, so that'll
be cool. And the honey Deuce's great cocktail with little
pieces of melon in its. It's listen. Any sport at
(12:54):
the highest level is awesome. That's the truth. If you're
like you and me and you love sports, any sport
at the highest level is awesome. The US Open is
a great event.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And we know as Americans we never have the top player,
but we still in New York. It's the ticket. Oh yeah, okay,
so my point, I guess my point is this. You
go to Europe, they love the NFL. Last time I
was in Europe in Madrid, I saw NFL jerseys. Is
the truth is the NFL is getting really popular overseas
(13:26):
and tennis, and we host the Olympics in this country
with a lot of events we're not great at. It's
wildly popular and soccer is incredibly popular. This is where
the globalization is real. Is that Americans, like I mean,
let's be honest, every American I know loves going to Europe.
Sobs Italy, they love London, like this idea, that stuff.
(13:49):
We have to wrap everything in a flag. We all
acknowledge as Americans. The MLS, it's kind of tripa a
baseball compared to the English Premier League. So a lot
of my I noticed this. I told you when I'm
married Anne. One of the things I noticed because we
lived in the Boston Red Sox Yankee zone right in
New England. Her sons would get up on Saturday morning
(14:11):
and they would watch the English Premier League. Yeah, and
I remember telling her, I'm like, man, is this a
cautionary tale on what's happening to baseball? We're in Red
Sox territory. Those kids have no interest in baseball. They're
totally into soccer and the FIFA soccer games. So my
take is the World Cup. We love soccer in America,
(14:31):
but we want the best stuff, and at this point,
the MLS, although it's better today than it was ten
years ago, we view it as kind of Triple A baseball.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Absolutely, and like I have no doubt, like I, like
I said, I wish, I you know, I would love
to have ownership in an MLS team, Not that I
carry it like that, but like and yeah, like EPL
rights would probably be a good business to be in,
but it's it is tough to sell. I'm gonna wake
up at six in the morning on Saturday and not
(15:02):
let my kids or go to my kids soccer. And
like me personally, I'm kind of at my bandwidth on
like the amount of weekend time I can spend watching
sports away from my wife. And I don't have it
in me to become like a Man City fan and
become like dedicated to it. But there's no question that
this thing, it keeps growing and World Cups like this
(15:23):
one that are spectacular that everybody can watch, that tens
of millions of people will watch, non US games. Of
course there will be a ripple effect to some people
are going to just follow Erling Holland and to his
club team. Some people will follow Jamaal and Harry Kane
(15:44):
or Bellingham or like whoever they've fallen for in this tournament.
And of course it's going to keep. It is clearly
a sport where the arrow is pointing up. I just personally,
I don't know if you're not watching it in prime
time in America, night in and night out, I don't
(16:05):
know that it's going to enter the zeitgeys like, do
you see yourself doing EPL topics over baseball topics anytime soon?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
No? No, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
But not everything that's wildly popular is topical on my show.
As you know, there are like there are just things
that are that are Like the Olympics are great. I
don't talk Olympics. I can't use any footage. NBC doesn't
allow it. Frankly, ESPN is not allowed to use a
lot of footage of the World Cup, so it limits
their you know, coverage of it to a large degree.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
So I I guess my take is, which is.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It doesn't have to be in America to be wildly popular,
I think, and I think great. And the and the
income levels. This is something that you know, it's it's
uncomfortable to talk about, but the income levels of soccer
fans are up there with golf and tennis. You get
educated one hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred and
fifty thousand dollar incomes. It's it's not a tractor poll man,
(17:05):
it's it is going. It is high end stuff. I've
had probably a half dozen friends who have made a
trip to either golf in like Ireland, or go to
an English Premier League match like that's that is something
you know, like my friends if they're going to Europe,
and I said, oh, what are you going to do
in Europe? Like almost every guy I know has gone
to an English Premier League match. I'm going. I'm you know,
(17:28):
I've been contacting one of the people I've talked to
on the air. I'm going to do that as well.
So it's I just think, as I've aged, stuff like
this is much more interesting. Like I'm there's a lot
of minutia that you and I avoid some of it.
You got you know, you get into the hamster wheel
(17:48):
of it. And I've just felt this is so refreshing
and so fun. Then it's like, yeah, I want to
extend this a little bit.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I love that. I love that you're swept up in it.
And also yeah, like it's a you're gonna you're gonna
take a flight to Madrid and go see a game.
Like it's not a.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Bad it's you know what I mean, it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, it's it's not It's not a bad way to
live if you've got the means to do it. And
it is just a I think that it's we love events,
right like the in a world of uh splintered attention spans,
and there are seemingly even if it's not true, the
(18:30):
algorithm kind of makes us feel like we are more
at each other's throats, more divisive, have less in common.
An event like this happens and it's not in Qatar
or Saudi Arabia or Spain, Portugal, Morocco like in four years,
it's just right in front of us. And even if
you couldn't afford to go. And I attended zero matches,
(18:53):
you know, my wife and I did a date night
in Brooklyn. The World's Cup matches are going on on Saturday.
We were just like we're gonna just go explore Brooklyn
and bounce around and go to different spots, but with
the intent of, like we want to watch the games.
There are seventeen different options watch parties in the street,
high end restaurant, cocktail lounge, showing the game like it
(19:15):
it is. It is just it was so totally embedded
everywhere we were going. Yeah, you know, like that I
think brings a lot of people together and just will
have a very like word association like soccer positive, you know,
because because so many people were just like had had
(19:35):
some touch point with this World's Cup, even if it
was My wife's family is from Lawrence, Kansas, where KU
is and they were the base camp for Algeria, and
they just thought it was like really really cool how
many Algerians came to their college town and then the
college town welcomed the Algerians and it was beautiful. So
(19:56):
like you could be in New York City where Lawrence
can and you had some sort of touch point with
this World's Cup.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Well, yeah, the two groups that love it are young
people under thirty and people with money that are over fifty.
Those are good groups to have at your disposal. And
it's Also it's also a sport that is a city sport, Miami,
San Francisco, La, New York, Philadelphia. That's not to say
I don't love it in Kansas City, but it really
at college football sometimes or college basketball feels like almost
(20:26):
like the country. It's small towns. Soccer's big city is
it thrives in big diverse areas. It could be Rome,
it could be London, it could.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Be New York.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And you know the other thing that it is and
I'm maybe I'm being too you know, jingoistic and you know,
the ultimate patriot here, but it is. Our economy is
much bigger than even like the UK, like like like it,
and it's it's exploded over the last decade.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
We've pulled away from Europe economically.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You know, Singapore has money, Zurich, you know, Katar, we
know that, but Europe doesn't have our money, the amount
of money people pay for fans. We have the NHL
in the NFL, and Major League Baseball in the WNBA,
and a massive college system. We have all these pro leagues.
They have the English Premier League and cricket. The fact
(21:14):
that we have all these leagues, you bring your sport over.
It's twenty five hundred ticket and you can't get one
for any game in any city. I really think it
speaks to the consumption and the passion we have for sports.
I constantly hear how divided we are. American fans have
(21:35):
been unbelievable. You're not seeing fights. People have just relished
the opportunity to flex and show off and be great,
great hosts. And we don't say that enough about our
sports fans. I'm blown away by how we've reacted. When
you consider Danny, how much sports, how many options, I mean,
(21:58):
not even counting like high school sports that's a massive
business in America.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
AAU basketball.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So I've been blown away by america our commitment, our passion,
and our and our graciousness.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I'm with you. I love sports. I love how much
everybody seems to around us love sports because it pays
for my kids education. By the way, I'll just do
a shout out here if anyone wants to take me
to the World's Cup final in Jersey or New York.
I've been to a game yet. It's right down the road,
but the get in price is like eight grand ticket
and I'm not gonna do it. So like one of
(22:35):
these tremendous sponsors. I'll tell you, I'll tell you great stories.
But no, it's and I know you mentioned Kansas City
kind of like as a placeholder. Kansas City is like
the soccer capital of the country. It's crazy of their
weight class. They're number one of the TV ratings for everything.
Orlando too. Yeah, just like so shout out to my
old home in KSE. But no, I think that, like listen,
(22:58):
it's sometimes it is cliche the like sports bring people together,
because we do like the Disney movie, and we sometimes
put more of like a burden on the athletes to
bring us together. And you know, the bad actors will
say shut up and dribble and like it. It can
be used to be divisive, but like at its core,
(23:21):
it's just it is a unifier and it is such
a great event. And I know we are two people
who work for Fox and sound like corporate shills here,
but like the data backs us up. Everybody is loving it.
Everybody is loving it right, like the President is talking
about it. People on the left, people on the right, old, young,
(23:42):
to your point, like different socioeconomic classes. I will miss
it when the World Cup ends. It will be very
interesting to see if we get as swept up in
it four years from now when the time zones just
make it a little bit more complicated, like yeah, you
know what I mean? Like again, like this this really was. Yes,
(24:04):
this was a perfect storm to catch us in the
right plat again if if it's tens what Saudi Arabia
and then they aired in October because of the heat,
and then it goes up.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
You'll lose forty percent of the numbers.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And it goes up against NFL. You know, it's just
so like but it's okay. It's it's a moment in time,
and it's an awesome moment in time.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
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I always had this theory. I called it my say
it out loud theory that you get caught up in
numbers in data. Yeah, And I said this about Jalen
(26:40):
Brown recently I'm like, the Celtics were nine and two
when he didn't play last year. The year before they
were fifteen and four without him. In the championship year
that were twelve and zero without him, the numbers are
fairly clear. He gets in the way of Jason Tatum,
who is the superior player. The Celtics in vague today
(27:01):
losing Jalen and getting old Paul George have greater championship
odds like, it's hard for us to reconcile that, and
I think it's hard today. I listed my top ten
quarterbacks going into the season, and I put Kayleb Williams
at number three, and I just said, you know, say
it out loud if I told you there's a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
He was the.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Best fourth quarter, come from behind quarterback in the league.
He may have the second best arm to Josh Allen.
He doesn't throw picks, never gets hurt, didn't take many sacks,
and maybe the greatest athlete first or second playing in
(27:42):
the sport. You would without a doubt, so that's top
three quarterback. Of course you would because he is. And
people say, well, he's inconsistent. So is Matt Stafford, so
is Justin Herbert last two years. So is Mahomes, so
is Josh Allen. There are very few Brady's that you
got the same guy every Sunday, like Peyton Manning put
(28:05):
him in cold weather, wasn't quite the same quarterback. And
I said this, and I think people now because I
live in Chicago, I'm like, guys, he made a play
against the Packers in the playoffs and won against the Rams,
and it didn't line up with football physics. It's the
same thing I saw in year two with Mahomes. I'm like, Okay,
I've never seen that before. Like, I don't think it's
(28:29):
a I don't think it's a not only is it
not outrageous, I don't even think it's a reach. I
think he's in the running for the third best quarterback
in the league. You can argue he's the fourth, but
you can't put him below like five. I mean you can't.
He's no interceptions, never hurt, seven game winning drives, first
(28:51):
year with a new coach, horsepower, arm strength. I mean,
I don't know how can you put him below Joe
Burrell that can't make the playoffs and can't stay healthy,
or Herbert who I love but has been has been
(29:12):
awful in the postseason, Like, how do I put him
below them?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Listen, I saw your list and I saw you do
the list, and it let into Nick Right coming on
your show, and he said something to you that he
soft sold. I'm very mad at both of you. Okay,
you are Colin Coward, fame and fortune. Okay, radio TV,
(29:44):
the volume. I never know which home you're broadcasting from
when we talk Nick Right, he has broken through. He's
a superstar. He's the Lebron guy, He's the Mahomes guy,
ridd in their coat tails to fame and fortune. And
here's little old Danny comes and breaks into the national scene,
(30:07):
trying to figure out my take. Corners from Chicago, A
born and raised Bears guy, never seen a great quarterback,
don't even know what they look like, never eating one
where a Bears before I'm gonna be the Caleb guy.
And before I can even make my pick, last year,
Nick picks the Bears to go to the Super Bowl,
(30:28):
steals that take from me. Colin comes out and is like,
you know, he's better than Matt Stafford who won the
MVP last year. The third bet Lamar Jackson and his
two MVPs. Nah, it's ridiculous to say so, like you
guys are trying to box me. I need Caleb to
(30:49):
level up. Nick doesn't need Caleb. You don't need Caleb.
Now I have to be like, well, listen, Colin, he
did complete fifty eight percent of his passes last year
and he's ever thrown for four thousand yards, and I
would like him to be a little bit like I
own every share of Caleb Williams stock that it would exist.
But I still do think that that list that you
(31:10):
put him third, it is projection based, Like yes to me.
The argument for Caleb is year one, before he had
Ben Johnson, when he's coming from USC and going into
the NFL. He had a few moments of brilliance, but
(31:31):
he was the sack rate was basically the worst we
had ever seen in the history of the NFL, and
at times he looked straight up lost. And then in
year two he was elite at avoiding sacks, Like he
took his biggest flaw and he turned it into a
legitimate strength one year. And that's before you add in
the seven fourth quarter comebacks, the heroics, the one percent plays,
(31:53):
the athleticism, all of the you know, sixth then yards
for the for the offense everything that he did else,
but like he took a big weakness the biggest strength great.
So now I assume year two in Ben Johnson's system,
year three in the league, he will drastically increase his consistency,
drastically increase his efficiency, and he's going to put up
(32:15):
some monster numbers and be a top five quarterback in football.
But he hasn't done it yet, and so I don't
have any doubt that he's about to do it. I
think he's going to be in the MVP conversation. I
think that the things that regress for the Bears he's
going to make up for by taking a step forward.
I think they could have a top five offense, if
(32:35):
not the best offense in the sport. And I think
he's going to be a super Bowl champion and an
MVP and all of the things that I've dreamt of
for thirty nine years on this earth to be the
Bears quarterback. But none of that that reasonable, excellent Caleb
take doesn't matter anymore because you say he's the third
best quarterback in the NFL and you're still on the headlines.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Well, it's funny because I said today I am keeping
justin Herbert high because I am considering Mike McDaniel is
a new OC. Jared Goff makes my top ten because
he's got Drew Pinsick from Arizona, an excellent OC.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Last year, Arizona.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Bizarrely scored a ton of points with Jacobe Prezett because
they have a very clever maybe not Ben Johnson level,
but very clever OC. Now he's in Detroit. So it
was a projection based on here's what I've seen. Here's
the elements that have been added. A star receiver, a
good OC. This is what I think we'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
You listen to.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Matt Stafford may have a left tackle issue, which would
not be that big of a deal for a Sam Darnold.
It's a huge deal for Matt Stafford because you know
they've got some issues at tackle right now because Rob
Havenstein is gone, Whitworth years ago left, and they've you know,
they've had guys.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
More than they've had stars.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So but I think when I look at Caleb, my
takeaway is and I've got a type. Matt Hasselbeck came
on later, He's like, boy, you have a type, and
my type is love Jordan love Caleb Darnold. I like thick,
big whip, move off, you know, move off, scripted play.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, me too, me too, Like it's it's more fun
to root for. It represents a higher ceiling. They need
less things to go right around them. Like if you
were going to say who is the most talented quarterback
in the NFL, I think your list is like correct,
Alan Mahomes, Caleb right, Like the pure quarterbacking talent, physical gifts.
(34:40):
I think I think those are the guys. How many
people in the league can do the thing that he
did against the Rams?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Nobody?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Right, I think Alan, Alan right, I think that might
be a two person list. Now, some people would say
Matt Stafford would never be in that position because you
would never be eighteen yards behind the line of scrimmage. Right.
There is that component to it, and I understand it.
But there is like a his one percent place. Because
(35:12):
I've made a point the other day about Caleb and
like his highlight tape, and people are in my comments like, well,
quarterbacking is in a highlight tape. I'm like, it's not
a highlight tape if you're in year nine, but if
you're in year two and year one in a system
I absolutely think that your best should be made more
heavily than your worst or your blips, because the blips
(35:33):
I can easily write off as he's young, he's learning
the offense, he's making the transition to the NFL. Oh
Doomsay is young, and Loveland is young, and Burden is young,
and like, it's a young offense. But if he can
give me the highs of MVP Mahomes and year eight
(35:54):
or nine Josh Allen like as a year two player,
I am of course gonna way the highs more heavily
for the twenty three year old in his second year
in the NFL. I'd be crazy not to.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
So there was a I try not to talk about
other hosts because what we do for a living is hard.
You're unscripted talking three hours. But I do think Dan
Patrick and Kathy Engelbert basically stiffing Dan Patrick is kind
of interesting. So, first of all, we've all had guests canceled.
Anybody that's done this local syndicated. It happens, sports politics,
(36:29):
it happens. Commissioners don't cancel. If they do, there's a
fundamental problem within their league. There's a major controversy. But
I made the argument. So I have no problem with
Dan emoting on the air because he was, you know, viscerally,
he was upset. When you're hosting a show and you
(36:51):
can see somebody over there, I've never had this and
they won't come on your show and they've scheduled it,
I'd be pissed too. And I think what makes radio
different than scripted news or writers that have copy editors.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
We are raw, we are live. Get you get.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Sometimes you get sparks. And I thought Dan had every
right to say this is ridiculous. I had no problem
with it at all. It was it was just real
quick listen.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I the video of her in the soundtrap while he
is doing the commentary shys. It was spectacular. So hats
off to their production team. That was awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, but I said this, if you really look at
what has happened to the WNBA, I said, consider all
these sports of business, the business of baseball over the
last like four years, lots of tweaks. The game was slow,
it had lost a rhythm, it took too long. They
made multiple tweaks. They've all were Rob Manford was a
(38:01):
great CEO, a great operator of a business. I think
I'm not defending the WNBA. But think about what has
happened in like three years. They bring the most popular
player ever into the league and they're just not ready
for it. I mean it's almost like a band gets
hot and the artist literally it's like Coachella happens and
(38:26):
you weren't ready for it. Now Coachella now plans for it.
But it's like an artist that gets hot and you
get a stampede.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
You don't have seats, you.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Don't have parking, you run out of food by the
second act. So Caitlin comes, they're not quite ready. It explodes,
and then they're in the middle by the second year
of contract negotiations. Then they introduce three teams. Golden State's
team has a billion dollar valuation. It is the it
is leader in the league in attendance. Toronto Tempo home Run,
(38:55):
Portland Fire home run. They introduce three new teams, all
hit and I said, what's happened is this is a
business with insane two year hypergrowth and forget that it's basketball.
They just can't get their damn arms around it. It's
now they are paranoid. They've never been criticized because they've
(39:16):
never been discussed on any of these shows, and I think,
and I'm not defending him because Kathy Engelbertner's staff, I
think we're absolutely on the wrong side with Dan and
he has every right to emote, but part of me
looks at it and I just think, you know, it's
like when Connor McGregor came to the UFC and he
had some like inappropriate moments, like remember he was throwing
(39:39):
something at a bus.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Connor was so big, so fast.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
It's like, we're you know, Dana White's like, holy shit,
we got ourselves are all ee right like and it's
it's and Connor was you know, he was just so
big and powerful and popular and fantastic, but he was
a big ass personality, right yeah. And then and then
when Tiger got on the tour, when he exploded on
(40:07):
the tour, I think a lot of the tour wasn't
quite ready for him. Like Network's got heavy criticism. They
showed him every hole, like literally, they monitored every single shot.
You didn't really do that with golf, right, So could
I make the argument these are all businesses, hyper growth
(40:29):
is just really hard. Some mistakes were absolutely predictable.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
That is a very generous read on this because let
me just let me use your examples. I've interviewed Dana
White a couple of times over the last decade, but
I do not know Dana White. I've never met him
in person, and I have a lot of like disagreements
(40:57):
with some of the things that he's done in terms
of like state answers that he's taken, inconsistencies, behavior in
his personal life, things like that, Right, But I don't
think anybody, and I do consider myself a fan of
the UFC, I don't think anybody could argue that Dana
White hasn't been a good leader and steward of mixed
(41:20):
martial arts in the UFC. He's been He's been a leader, right,
He's been a visionary, he's been out.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
He's attacked I mean, he attacked COVID. He was a
leader with.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
It, just just with with a lot of things with
just like the growth of it and having a vision
and the venue changes and the media rights deals and
defending the sport against allegations of barbarism and just like
all he's just like he has clearly been a good
leader for the UFC, even if there has been serious
(41:52):
bad moments with him. Tiger Tiger was. It's like Roger
Goodell getting a lot of credit for the media rights
deals for the NFL. It's like, I think I could
have negotiated record setting media rights deals for the NFL.
You know, Like it's just like you know, so like
the PGA Tour has had some leadership changes and issues,
(42:13):
but like anybody could have been in charge of the
PGA Tour from nineteen ninety seven to two thousand and
eight and seen exponential medioric growth like it didn't. I
have not gotten the sense that Kathy Engelbert has been
up to the task of leadership through this thing, and
(42:35):
I just think that there's been Like if Adam Silver
was the commissioner of the WNBA, I feel like this
Caitlin Clark experience would have been better. I think some
of these things are just I think they're just weird
self inflicted wounds. And agreeing to go on Dan Patrick
and then canceling is just and then blaming pr you're
(42:57):
the commissioner, they work for you, like that's that's PR one.
Oh one, that's well.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
How about the poster where they knew going in they
couldn't use Caitlin Clark's likeness and they still release the poster.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Right, and but just and the the commentary and the
fouling and the jealousy and the the allegations about what
your fans have said an arenas like, just like stronger
leadership has been needed to have a vision. We're here,
(43:29):
We're going there. I'm not expecting perfection. I'm not expecting
you to bat a thousand, But it feels too often
to me. And again, I am not watching the WNBA
with regularly. I am not an expert, so like, I
know that people don't love when other people parachute in
and comment, and it just seems to me as a
media observer and a sports observer, that too often the
(43:52):
tail has been wagging the dog with the WNBA. And
it's like we're still having these like dumb Katelyn in
Clark Debate's like she's been injured. Your league is growing,
there's a ton of great players, Like someone should just
get out in front and help reshape the narrative of
this league and not let like the bad faith online
actors determine the narratives around your league. So unlike the
(44:16):
other two examples that you used, I just feel like
if there was a little bit better leadership in pr
that they would have like there would have been turbulence,
there would have been mistakes. But this has been a
flight where like the flight attendants haven't been allowed to
get up and serve beverages. Like it's one thing to
have a little turbulence in the flight and be a
little uncomfortable. This has been like gripping the armrests, like
(44:39):
this is uncomfortable, and I just I think a lot
of it has been avoidable.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, no, I I yeah, I'd like maybe it's because
you know, they are growing.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
It is good.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
I saw it, no question they are. But it's like
a weird thing, right, Like this kind of reminds me
of our NBA conversation, Like the NBA tons of star power,
record setting, media rights deals, ratings are going up, and
part of that's because ratings are calculated in a different way.
But like, but tanking three point shooting like that, there
(45:13):
were there have been issues load management. There have been
issues around it, and like you gotta just because you
are making more money and your league is growing, doesn't
mean you have great leadership, right, like, like you could
just be you know, Bill Clinton, he's the president. The
internet explodes, it's like, hey, look the economies up.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
It's like, I don't know, man, Like I feel like
a lot of people and I'm a fan, but like,
I feel like a lot of people would have been
done pretty well economically if the Internet is invented when
they were in office.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
So I just I don't know. I just I struggle
to give them too much credit for the Caitlin Clark phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Okay, as a Chicago Bulls season ticket holder, there's two
calebs to discuss. One of them Caleb Wilson. So, Summer
League is you gotta be careful. I was talking the
other day with Jason Timpf about this is you know,
there have been legendary Summer League performers that don't do anything,
but you get glimpses. The Summer League, for the record,
(46:22):
now is almost become it really is. It's become like
another sport, like it's it's four to five weeks of
Really I don't think people understand who have never gone
to the Summer League. It's like a real business. It's
been brilliantly run. I look forward to it every year
because of this draft. You get Lindenborg and a Daima
and it's like, oh, it is fun, but Caleb Wilson is,
(46:44):
Oh wow, that's indisputable. He looks like the best player.
He and Debonca look like the best players by like
a level in the summer league. How much now now,
now we knew for the record people had said before
the draft listen, of the top four players, he may
(47:05):
have the highest ceiling. He is absolutely the least refined.
I didn't know he would come out in his first
game and be Larry Bird. He was like, he didn't
shoot threes in college. I watched them, Caroline. He just
didn't shoot from the outside. And it's hard to argue
on what you saw, the verticality, the aggressiveness, the shooting,
(47:26):
the touch. It was like it was kind of wow, right.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I mean, you know what if Jiannis and Kevin Durant
had a baby and he was Caleb Wilson. Is that
too much? Like I am so excited, Like you're a
bullseason ticket holder. I can't wait to ask you for
tickets and come to games like this kid is. I
remember being in college when the Bulls got the one
point eight percent and winning the lottery and the Derreck
(47:51):
Rose years, and I might have been a little inebriated,
and I jumped up off my couch and I started
just jumping in the air and screaming like just a
complete lunatic because Derek Rose was coming home. There hadn't
been much between ninety eight and the Derek Rose draft, right,
it was rough, and then the Rose injuries and all
of that. There hasn't been much since Derreck Rose to
(48:12):
now and Caleb Wilson is wildly exciting because of what
you mentioned with the ceiling and the explosiveness. But I mean,
just to put a number on it. At North Carolina,
he went seven of twenty seven from three in his
year at North Carolina seven of twenty seven. In his
(48:34):
summer league debut, he went seven of eleven. So he
had as many threes in his first pro basketball game
as he did his entire college career, and he was
hitting step back three. He's like, I don't care. If
it was some league, I don't care. I don't care.
If it was pick up basketball, I don't care. If
it was shooting at the Advocate Center where the Bulls practice.
(48:55):
If that dude who can jump four feet in the
air and has his wingspan can shoot seven of eleven
from three at any stretch. It's wildly exciting. And I
know I'm in a little deep on the Caleb Wilson stuff,
and I listen, I think that, like Peterson has said
all of the right things since he's been in Utah.
(49:15):
Boozer says the right things, the Bansa says the right things,
Lindenborg says the right Like these guys are media trained
and they are professional athletes before they make it to
the NBA and all of those things. So I tend
to really not overstate it. But Caleb Wilson is carrying
himself like a ten year veteran. He said he heard
(49:36):
the criticism, he heard the questions, and he wasn't able
to finish his season because of the wrist injury, and
so as soon as he got cleared, he said he
has been taking two thousand jump shots a day, two
thousand and I'm like, when I heard it, I was like, okay, kid,
that's cute. And then he's hitting step back three pointers
(49:57):
in the in the I'm like, oh, maybe you had
actually are taking two thousand jumpers a day, and he's like,
no one wants it more than me. It's like, so
I'm going to get to play against all of these guys,
like he seems like the real deal and there's awesome.
I cannot wait to watch.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Him develop well.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
And where's Kevin Garnett from. It's it's I mean, let's
let's be clear his comp when you watch him, there
is some Kevin Garnett. Like there's the length, the explosiveness.
Kevin was aggressive. I mean, by Kevin's second year he
was an All Star if I remember, so it's like, yeah,
I mean, and Kevin didn't go to college. So when
(50:39):
I watched them in the summer league, I was like, oh,
you can see some Kevin Garnett.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
That's not a huge reach, that's what he looks like.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, I mean, listen, Kevin Garnett is one of the
best two way players. You know, you know, he's an
unbelieve top fifty player ever, he's just incredible. That would
be amazing. Like I said, Giannis, I'm not like in
this where it's such a shooting league and it's so
spaced out and physicality away from the basket, you know,
(51:05):
is not as allowed. It's they wanted to be more
free flowing. It's like, why when Zion is healthy, he's
so effective because he's a sledgehammer and a finesse. League
like if Caleb Wilson can like run and slash and
jump and dunk over everybody as he gets stronger and develops,
Like you're saying, Garnett, I'm saying, like Yannis like that.
(51:28):
That to me, that is the dream of just like
the the power forward that is eleven out of ten explosive.
But if he can shoot also, it's terrifying. So yeah,
Garnett is a fun one, I said a Mari before
the drafts.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, just like real explosive, just like like the dunk
that he had in his second game. I mean yeah,
like I have a poster of it already hanging on
my wall. He was so sick. It's just it is
so exciting. And Caleb Williams, Caleb Wilson.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
Can you ever during the NBA season? Can you ever
get to Chicago?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Because I go to the Bulls games all the time.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
We have a suite upstairs. It's like a not one
of the corporate suites. It's it's below that so it's
closer to the floor. It is a great time. It
is a great time.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, I mean listen, you know it's NBA, it's NFL season,
so I work Monday through Friday. But I hear Fox
has a studio in Chicago. Maybe you know who can
get me in? Uh and yeah, the Bulls play on Saturdays.
Let's pick a let's pick a Saturday Bulls game at
the United Center, and uh, me and the wife will
come and you can pick up the dessert card. Tab
(52:43):
sounds excellent.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
Oh yeah, they it's it's at level.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
It's a listen. I don't own a suite, but I've
been in a suite at the end.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
It sweet.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
Level is strong, it's really good. It's a it's a
it's a great venue. It's a great ventu. You were
you were you at Millenie at Wrigley By the way, did.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
You know I was at Mulaney at the United Center,
Sebastian and a Cowsko at the United Center. Yeah, apparently
Wrigley Field, which it's weird. I didn't know if you'd
be able to hear the jokes. Apparently it was great.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Apparently it was. It was great. It looked great. We've
talked to comedy before I saw Millennie at the United Center. Also,
I needed to be at that Wrigley event. I wasn't
able to make it work. Buddy Guy came out, Chicago
Blues Legend played song, played Sweet Home Chicago. Richard Kind
(53:36):
Northwestern Chicago Guy kind of m seated. Fred Armisen opened,
and then David Letterman introdom and then mulaney did an
hour forty.
Speaker 3 (53:45):
Five and now he's ours.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
I gotta tell you, man, the I I saw when
he got out of rehab. My wife bought tickets and
she and went way above. It was like row one.
I'm just looking up at him. I was like, wow, yeah,
this is It was probably the best hour fifteen to
hour thirty. I remember reading the I think it was
(54:09):
Chicago Trip had a like like the comedy reviewer, like
a movie critic. Yeah, and he was complimentary, but he
you know, he was a little critical. And I'm thinking
that may have been the most courageous hour and a
half and the funniest hour and a half of comedy live.
And I've seen everybody.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
I mean, of note Millennie's Mulanie's at the top of
the mountain right now, Like yeah, I think so, yeah,
he's a he's at the he's at the top. I
mean Loui's been at the top, Chappelle's been at the top,
Rock's been at the top. In terms of like my era,
obviously Jerry for longevity and success. I don't go back
to the Carlin, you know, Murphy Ryer, like you know
(54:52):
what I mean, but like I would, I would say,
right now, top of the mountain is Mulaney. He's I think, yeah,
he's the best hour and a half.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
I mean he is also, I mean, what's interesting They
used to say this about hip hop stars, like you
talk about the pain and the struggle. You go platinum
and then you buy a boat, six cars, a giant house.
The struggle's gone, and the music's never the same, Like
it's like, oh okay, Now, obviously some people have extended
(55:22):
their careers, but it's the same. In comedy, there usually
is like a boundary, Like it's like you're hysterical, your
funny Jim Carrey three years, and then it's Mike Myers,
and then John Stewart and then it's Jerry Seinfeld. It's
hard to remain funny for a long time. And part
of what really makes Mulaney to me his ability to extend.
(55:47):
He's been great for ten years is like his personal issues,
Like it's I guess you know, ironically it's his best material.
Like he literally did an hour and a half on
falling Apart as a human being. And it's like he's
obviously a successful guy, but his ability to dissect his
(56:09):
life is I mean, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah, he's he's got he's got a he's got a
special brain. A lot of comics use obviously sadness trauma.
You know, they bear their souls on stage. They say
things on stage that they can't say to like their
wives or their husbands or whatever. Like that's like a
very common trait of comedians. Mulaye's just a that I listen,
I agree with you that tour was amazing, but I
(56:35):
also would argue that like he had the defining joke
of the Rise of Trump, like his horse in a
hospital bit is one of the funniest it's one of
the funniest things of all time. And and it's just
like so he is just I mean, he was He's
a legend in the SNL writer's room, Like he's just
he's a great writer. Like like mulaney is just a
(56:58):
great joke writer. And yeah, he he can break things
down in a pretty special way.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
So yeah, he's got it.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
I was very, very very jealous of my friends who
were at that show.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
He's got the timing. Anthony Bourdain, the late Anthony Bourdain
had this. There's a lot of big personalities as chefs,
but Bourdain's ability to tell a complicated story of a
country simply I always thought was an incredible gift. Like
he talks about and like Mulaney, he's like, I was
bailing water in my forties.
Speaker 3 (57:30):
I couldn't keep a job.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
I had burn marks all over my arm. And then
I wrote a caustic book in my life changed, and
I my son went and watched Anthony Bourdaine. I think
at like the Hartford Civic Center, you know, do an
hour and a half, and he's interested. He was just
an incredibly compelling guy and again courageous enough to go
out and just say, like, here are the mistakes I've made,
(57:53):
and I've got a lot of insecurities and flaws, and
a lot of people won't go there. Yeah, a lot
of people. I don't know much about Gordon Ramsey's life.
I know a lot about like Anthony Bourdain's life, and
I think and mulaney similarly, you know a lot of
people are hiding that stuff, and and Bordain and Millaney
just they bear it all.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
It's it's a very very soul bearing way to do it.
But I love it.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Yeah, I mean, and the and the best do that,
the best, the best, the best ones do that. So
I guess the moral of the story is, when the
bull schedule comes out, I'll send you some dates and uh,
I'll see you first slice of cheesecake at the United Center.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
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All right, Danny Parkins joining me, Spain upset France. I'm
(02:03):
going to show you just to give you some example
of how into the World Cup I've been. So Didier Deschamp,
the manager of France Leaves and Zennida Zidon. The fact
I got close on those, it's really an achievement.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You're crushing it, Colin, you're crushing it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But seriously, I thought, France, you know, it's really remarkable
how Spain matches up with France, so basically until the end,
I mean, France had one shot on goal, I mean,
and then they got a couple at the end. Spain
dominates possession. Spain's won thirty seven matches without losing. They
(02:51):
controlled possession. It reminded me a little bit in the
first few minutes, a little bit of United States Belgium,
where you watch this hyper aggressive team and within ninety
seconds we are pinned deep in our territory and we
can't get it out. And I'm watching Spain do the
same thing to France, where France can't maintain possessions, they're
(03:13):
pinned deep. Spain had multiple opportunities and like our goalie,
the goalie for France, you know, by no means lost
the game, but was a little indecisive, was a little
sketchy early. But I was just taken by and soccer
(03:33):
can do this almost like no other sport, an incredibly gifted,
confident team. Within ninety seconds, it is basically holding on
for dear life. And it just jumped through the television to.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Me, Yeah, we got to do We were like the
We're the second post game show. You know, I'm sure
the majority of people were with Laton and Thieri and
Alexi and Rebecca, but if you cheer switched over to
FS one. We did an hour of post on it
and I was really proud of it. I thought we
did a good job at the ot. It was listen.
(04:09):
I picked Spain in the game. I picked Spain before
the tournament to win it. The frontline attacking of France
is remarkable. Spain's allowed one goal all tournament. Spain beat
France in the Euros in twenty twenty four, Spain beat
France in the Semis, by the way, in the Euros,
they beat him in the Semis of the Nation's League
(04:30):
in twenty twenty five, and they just beat him in
the Semis of the twenty twenty six World Cup. So
the thirty seven match streak for Spain that you're talking about, Yeah,
but three of them will come against France like they
just their defense knows what to do, and I thought
it was suffocating. And sometimes I think like a little
thing can happen and it can balloon to a medium
(04:51):
sized thing and then a large thing, and it was
just a snowball effect for France. Like they got a
yellow card in the eighth minute, they allowed the goal
in the twenty second minute after the penalty on Jamal
allows for the free kick for oh yards of ball,
then they're probably second best defensive player gets from that
in the twenty ninth minute, and all of a sudden,
(05:12):
you're thirty minutes into the game. You're trailing for the
first time you have all tournament one of your players
as a yellow card. Another of your players has had
to sub out that you fouled their nineteen year old
phenom and like, oh, play where there was not really
any chance of giving up a goal in that spot,
and you give up a goal and you're down one nothing,
and it just it got away from him really quick,
(05:34):
and trailing a team like Spain, I mean Spain has
allowed one goal the whole tournament. The record, the World's
Cup record for a World Cup champion is two. It's
been done three times. So we went we're going to
go from like if Spain shuts out Argentina or England,
we will go from weeks of talking about this is
(05:57):
France's World's Cup to lose. France is the best offense
team we've ever seen. France is the best collection of
offensive talent we've ever seen. So it will immediately pivot
to Spain just turned in the best defensive performance in
the history of the World's God.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You know we've said this before, is that great defense
when it meets a great offense, the defense almost always wins.
It's almost always because what you're doing. A great defense
speeds up everything you do offensively. So in France was
struggling to maintain possessions. It's like I've used the example before.
(06:32):
If you're a you know, you're a typist and you
type sixty words a minute and I say type ninety,
you make more mistakes. Right Like if you watched we
knew the Patriots oline wasn't great against the Seahawks defensive front.
Everything New England did had to be a beat and
a half faster, and their efficiency drops through the floor.
I mean, that's what's if you go look at Mahomes
(06:53):
the last two years, no run game, below average protection
against good teams. His efficiency Patrick Mahomes falls through the floor.
Is on target percentage dropped, all the efficiency stuff dropped,
and he's the best quarterback in the world until then.
So I think it's one of those I just sort
of thought, well, France has an all star team but
(07:14):
you know, it's another example of a great defense kind
of suffocating and taking a great offense out of its element.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
There's no question that's what happened. It's what I mean,
it's what they did to Portugal. Not that there is
great of an offense, but like France, Spain hasn't really
been in danger of losing. Like they had the draw
against cape Verde early, which I think turned everybody off
to Spain. Right their best player, La Mega Mal started
(07:47):
the tournament coming off of the hamstring injury, so he
only played fifty two minutes in the first two matches,
and then they had the weird draw to Cape Verde,
which ended up aging pretty well because cape Verde took
Argentina to the break to the brank and lost three
to an extra time and the whole thing. So like
not as embarrassing of a result for Spain. But I
(08:07):
think what happened in this World's Cup was because Harry
Kane and Jude Bellinghen and Messi and in Bape and
all of the stars on the star Leyden teams were
scoring a ton of goals and it was like, well,
Spain's not scoring a ton of goals and their star
isn't the guy that we hyped up is like, this
is the next Pele, this is the phenom Yamal is
(08:29):
this eighteen year old wizard and all that. But he's
had like a slow, weird World Cup. Everyone's just been
talking about the goals scoring because offense is easier for
us to consume, and the Golden boot race and you
put up a leader board and then it's like, oh, wait,
Spain's allowed one goal the whole tournament, right, Okay, yeah,
they're probably gonna win.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, it's it's been remarkable. And I said this that
there is not Erling Holland today is more well known
than any hockey hockey player outside of Wayne Gretzky in
my life.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I mean, if you go Earling Holland now as sixty
six million followers on Instagram, the top IG performer in
the NHL has two IG's not everything, but it's something.
It's a pretty good indicator of global stardom. And I
said this, when Tiger entered the PGA, it spiked, but
(09:30):
when he took certain tournaments off, the ratings went away.
Because golf has always been and I love it, fairly elitist.
It's hard lots of people start and quit. Very few
people actually play at a high level. Caitlin Clark comes
to the WNBA, it spikes to this day when she plays,
a million people watch she doesn't three hundred and fifty thousand.
(09:51):
Soccer's different, We're out. The numbers are still remarkable. And
so if you're asking staying power, much more than golf,
much more than tennis, much more than hockey, you can
have sensational star players. And I'm not saying it's the NFL,
but what I've watched from attendance, this is non USA games,
(10:14):
from attendance to merchandise to passion. When we're not playing,
where do we put it in our sports ecosystem?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So I heard this take from you earlier today, and
I guess what I would say is, this is a
perfect storm of events that is happening. It's it's in
our time zone, so we can we can watch every game.
The stars are playing and playing well, scoring goals. Like
(10:46):
I just mentioned, the Marquee brands are advancing deep like
we didn't just get Egypt Switzerland, we got Spain, France.
That helps. And the World's Cup is awesome. And I
have no doubt that my six year old. I've told
you about him before, like he now has a couple
of soccer jerseys, he went to a soccer camp, like
I have no doubt at all that millions and millions
(11:08):
of people will play soccer and it will continue to grow.
I do have some skepticism that, like the MLS is
about to become more popular than the NBA. I don't
think that. I don't think that because I think in
my experience as someone who falls for soccer every World's Cup,
it is hard to transition back to the MLS when
(11:32):
the talent is just so noticeably less and the intensity
is noticeably less, even if it is growing and good business.
And I wish I would have bought it ten years
ago when you tried to. But like, I'm not waking
up at six in the morning and watching the EPL,
which is at least like a closer level of talent
to these World Cup games. So it's like when you
(11:53):
go back and watch the American soccer the MLS in
our time zones, and it's three or five levels lower
than what we're watching right now. I don't know that
that momentum is going to carry where I can say
that soccer is going to still be in the American zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
But it's interesting because we love I've gone to Wimbledon. Well,
the only major sporting event I haven't gone to and
I want to is the US Open, but it always
falls in late August. I'm on vacation this year. I
may go for in Flushing Meadows for a night. It's
supposed to be just just a rocking event, just in
a remarkable by.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
The way, I hadn't done it until I moved to
New York. Nick had been telling me to do it.
I've done it the last two years. Come out, let's
go together, you me, and is it fun? Oh my god,
it's awesome. And you'll get us good seats, so that'll
be cool. And the honey Deuce's great cocktail with little
pieces of melon in its. It's listen. Any sport at
(12:54):
the highest level is awesome. That's the truth. If you're
like you and me and you love sports, any sport
at the highest level is awesome. The US Open is
a great event.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And we know as Americans we never have the top player,
but we still in New York. It's the ticket. Oh yeah, okay,
so my point, I guess my point is this. You
go to Europe, they love the NFL. Last time I
was in Europe in Madrid, I saw NFL jerseys. Is
the truth is the NFL is getting really popular overseas
(13:26):
and tennis, and we host the Olympics in this country
with a lot of events we're not great at. It's
wildly popular and soccer is incredibly popular. This is where
the globalization is real. Is that Americans, like I mean,
let's be honest, every American I know loves going to Europe.
Sobs Italy, they love London, like this idea, that stuff.
(13:49):
We have to wrap everything in a flag. We all
acknowledge as Americans. The MLS, it's kind of tripa a
baseball compared to the English Premier League. So a lot
of my I noticed this. I told you when I'm
married Anne. One of the things I noticed because we
lived in the Boston Red Sox Yankee zone right in
New England. Her sons would get up on Saturday morning
(14:11):
and they would watch the English Premier League. Yeah, and
I remember telling her, I'm like, man, is this a
cautionary tale on what's happening to baseball? We're in Red
Sox territory. Those kids have no interest in baseball. They're
totally into soccer and the FIFA soccer games. So my
take is the World Cup. We love soccer in America,
(14:31):
but we want the best stuff, and at this point,
the MLS, although it's better today than it was ten
years ago, we view it as kind of Triple A baseball.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Absolutely, and like I have no doubt, like I, like
I said, I wish, I you know, I would love
to have ownership in an MLS team, Not that I
carry it like that, but like and yeah, like EPL
rights would probably be a good business to be in,
but it's it is tough to sell. I'm gonna wake
up at six in the morning on Saturday and not
(15:02):
let my kids or go to my kids soccer. And
like me personally, I'm kind of at my bandwidth on
like the amount of weekend time I can spend watching
sports away from my wife. And I don't have it
in me to become like a Man City fan and
become like dedicated to it. But there's no question that
this thing, it keeps growing and World Cups like this
(15:23):
one that are spectacular that everybody can watch, that tens
of millions of people will watch, non US games. Of
course there will be a ripple effect to some people
are going to just follow Erling Holland and to his
club team. Some people will follow Jamaal and Harry Kane
(15:44):
or Bellingham or like whoever they've fallen for in this tournament.
And of course it's going to keep. It is clearly
a sport where the arrow is pointing up. I just personally,
I don't know if you're not watching it in prime
time in America, night in and night out, I don't
(16:05):
know that it's going to enter the zeitgeys like, do
you see yourself doing EPL topics over baseball topics anytime soon?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
No? No, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
But not everything that's wildly popular is topical on my show.
As you know, there are like there are just things
that are that are Like the Olympics are great. I
don't talk Olympics. I can't use any footage. NBC doesn't
allow it. Frankly, ESPN is not allowed to use a
lot of footage of the World Cup, so it limits
their you know, coverage of it to a large degree.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
So I I guess my take is, which is.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It doesn't have to be in America to be wildly popular,
I think, and I think great. And the and the
income levels. This is something that you know, it's it's
uncomfortable to talk about, but the income levels of soccer
fans are up there with golf and tennis. You get
educated one hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred and
fifty thousand dollar incomes. It's it's not a tractor poll man,
(17:05):
it's it is going. It is high end stuff. I've
had probably a half dozen friends who have made a
trip to either golf in like Ireland, or go to
an English Premier League match like that's that is something
you know, like my friends if they're going to Europe,
and I said, oh, what are you going to do
in Europe? Like almost every guy I know has gone
to an English Premier League match. I'm going. I'm you know,
(17:28):
I've been contacting one of the people I've talked to
on the air. I'm going to do that as well.
So it's I just think, as I've aged, stuff like
this is much more interesting. Like I'm there's a lot
of minutia that you and I avoid some of it.
You got you know, you get into the hamster wheel
(17:48):
of it. And I've just felt this is so refreshing
and so fun. Then it's like, yeah, I want to
extend this a little bit.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I love that. I love that you're swept up in it.
And also yeah, like it's a you're gonna you're gonna
take a flight to Madrid and go see a game.
Like it's not a.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Bad it's you know what I mean, it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, it's it's not It's not a bad way to
live if you've got the means to do it. And
it is just a I think that it's we love events,
right like the in a world of uh splintered attention spans,
and there are seemingly even if it's not true, the
(18:30):
algorithm kind of makes us feel like we are more
at each other's throats, more divisive, have less in common.
An event like this happens and it's not in Qatar
or Saudi Arabia or Spain, Portugal, Morocco like in four years,
it's just right in front of us. And even if
you couldn't afford to go. And I attended zero matches,
(18:53):
you know, my wife and I did a date night
in Brooklyn. The World's Cup matches are going on on Saturday.
We were just like we're gonna just go explore Brooklyn
and bounce around and go to different spots, but with
the intent of, like we want to watch the games.
There are seventeen different options watch parties in the street,
high end restaurant, cocktail lounge, showing the game like it
(19:15):
it is. It is just it was so totally embedded
everywhere we were going. Yeah, you know, like that I
think brings a lot of people together and just will
have a very like word association like soccer positive, you know,
because because so many people were just like had had
(19:35):
some touch point with this World's Cup, even if it
was My wife's family is from Lawrence, Kansas, where KU
is and they were the base camp for Algeria, and
they just thought it was like really really cool how
many Algerians came to their college town and then the
college town welcomed the Algerians and it was beautiful. So
(19:56):
like you could be in New York City where Lawrence
can and you had some sort of touch point with
this World's Cup.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Well, yeah, the two groups that love it are young
people under thirty and people with money that are over fifty.
Those are good groups to have at your disposal. And
it's Also it's also a sport that is a city sport, Miami,
San Francisco, La, New York, Philadelphia. That's not to say
I don't love it in Kansas City, but it really
at college football sometimes or college basketball feels like almost
(20:26):
like the country. It's small towns. Soccer's big city is
it thrives in big diverse areas. It could be Rome,
it could be London, it could.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Be New York.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And you know the other thing that it is and
I'm maybe I'm being too you know, jingoistic and you know,
the ultimate patriot here, but it is. Our economy is
much bigger than even like the UK, like like like it,
and it's it's exploded over the last decade.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
We've pulled away from Europe economically.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You know, Singapore has money, Zurich, you know, Katar, we
know that, but Europe doesn't have our money, the amount
of money people pay for fans. We have the NHL
in the NFL, and Major League Baseball in the WNBA,
and a massive college system. We have all these pro leagues.
They have the English Premier League and cricket. The fact
(21:14):
that we have all these leagues, you bring your sport over.
It's twenty five hundred ticket and you can't get one
for any game in any city. I really think it
speaks to the consumption and the passion we have for sports.
I constantly hear how divided we are. American fans have
(21:35):
been unbelievable. You're not seeing fights. People have just relished
the opportunity to flex and show off and be great,
great hosts. And we don't say that enough about our
sports fans. I'm blown away by how we've reacted. When
you consider Danny, how much sports, how many options, I mean,
(21:58):
not even counting like high school sports that's a massive
business in America.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
AAU basketball.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So I've been blown away by america our commitment, our passion,
and our and our graciousness.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I'm with you. I love sports. I love how much
everybody seems to around us love sports because it pays
for my kids education. By the way, I'll just do
a shout out here if anyone wants to take me
to the World's Cup final in Jersey or New York.
I've been to a game yet. It's right down the road,
but the get in price is like eight grand ticket
and I'm not gonna do it. So like one of
(22:35):
these tremendous sponsors. I'll tell you, I'll tell you great stories.
But no, it's and I know you mentioned Kansas City
kind of like as a placeholder. Kansas City is like
the soccer capital of the country. It's crazy of their
weight class. They're number one of the TV ratings for everything.
Orlando too. Yeah, just like so shout out to my
old home in KSE. But no, I think that, like listen,
(22:58):
it's sometimes it is cliche the like sports bring people together,
because we do like the Disney movie, and we sometimes
put more of like a burden on the athletes to
bring us together. And you know, the bad actors will
say shut up and dribble and like it. It can
be used to be divisive, but like at its core,
(23:21):
it's just it is a unifier and it is such
a great event. And I know we are two people
who work for Fox and sound like corporate shills here,
but like the data backs us up. Everybody is loving it.
Everybody is loving it right, like the President is talking
about it. People on the left, people on the right, old, young,
(23:42):
to your point, like different socioeconomic classes. I will miss
it when the World Cup ends. It will be very
interesting to see if we get as swept up in
it four years from now when the time zones just
make it a little bit more complicated, like yeah, you
know what I mean? Like again, like this this really was. Yes,
(24:04):
this was a perfect storm to catch us in the
right plat again if if it's tens what Saudi Arabia
and then they aired in October because of the heat,
and then it goes up.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
You'll lose forty percent of the numbers.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And it goes up against NFL. You know, it's just
so like but it's okay. It's it's a moment in time,
and it's an awesome moment in time.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
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I always had this theory. I called it my say
it out loud theory that you get caught up in
numbers in data. Yeah, And I said this about Jalen
(26:40):
Brown recently I'm like, the Celtics were nine and two
when he didn't play last year. The year before they
were fifteen and four without him. In the championship year
that were twelve and zero without him, the numbers are
fairly clear. He gets in the way of Jason Tatum,
who is the superior player. The Celtics in vague today
(27:01):
losing Jalen and getting old Paul George have greater championship
odds like, it's hard for us to reconcile that, and
I think it's hard today. I listed my top ten
quarterbacks going into the season, and I put Kayleb Williams
at number three, and I just said, you know, say
it out loud if I told you there's a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
He was the.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Best fourth quarter, come from behind quarterback in the league.
He may have the second best arm to Josh Allen.
He doesn't throw picks, never gets hurt, didn't take many sacks,
and maybe the greatest athlete first or second playing in
(27:42):
the sport. You would without a doubt, so that's top
three quarterback. Of course you would because he is. And
people say, well, he's inconsistent. So is Matt Stafford, so
is Justin Herbert last two years. So is Mahomes, so
is Josh Allen. There are very few Brady's that you
got the same guy every Sunday, like Peyton Manning put
(28:05):
him in cold weather, wasn't quite the same quarterback. And
I said this, and I think people now because I
live in Chicago, I'm like, guys, he made a play
against the Packers in the playoffs and won against the Rams,
and it didn't line up with football physics. It's the
same thing I saw in year two with Mahomes. I'm like, Okay,
I've never seen that before. Like, I don't think it's
(28:29):
a I don't think it's a not only is it
not outrageous, I don't even think it's a reach. I
think he's in the running for the third best quarterback
in the league. You can argue he's the fourth, but
you can't put him below like five. I mean you can't.
He's no interceptions, never hurt, seven game winning drives, first
(28:51):
year with a new coach, horsepower, arm strength. I mean,
I don't know how can you put him below Joe
Burrell that can't make the playoffs and can't stay healthy,
or Herbert who I love but has been has been
(29:12):
awful in the postseason, Like, how do I put him
below them?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Listen, I saw your list and I saw you do
the list, and it let into Nick Right coming on
your show, and he said something to you that he
soft sold. I'm very mad at both of you. Okay,
you are Colin Coward, fame and fortune. Okay, radio TV,
(29:44):
the volume. I never know which home you're broadcasting from
when we talk Nick Right, he has broken through. He's
a superstar. He's the Lebron guy, He's the Mahomes guy,
ridd in their coat tails to fame and fortune. And
here's little old Danny comes and breaks into the national scene,
(30:07):
trying to figure out my take. Corners from Chicago, A
born and raised Bears guy, never seen a great quarterback,
don't even know what they look like, never eating one
where a Bears before I'm gonna be the Caleb guy.
And before I can even make my pick, last year,
Nick picks the Bears to go to the Super Bowl,
(30:28):
steals that take from me. Colin comes out and is like,
you know, he's better than Matt Stafford who won the
MVP last year. The third bet Lamar Jackson and his
two MVPs. Nah, it's ridiculous to say so, like you
guys are trying to box me. I need Caleb to
(30:49):
level up. Nick doesn't need Caleb. You don't need Caleb.
Now I have to be like, well, listen, Colin, he
did complete fifty eight percent of his passes last year
and he's ever thrown for four thousand yards, and I
would like him to be a little bit like I
own every share of Caleb Williams stock that it would exist.
But I still do think that that list that you
(31:10):
put him third, it is projection based, Like yes to me.
The argument for Caleb is year one, before he had
Ben Johnson, when he's coming from USC and going into
the NFL. He had a few moments of brilliance, but
(31:31):
he was the sack rate was basically the worst we
had ever seen in the history of the NFL, and
at times he looked straight up lost. And then in
year two he was elite at avoiding sacks, Like he
took his biggest flaw and he turned it into a
legitimate strength one year. And that's before you add in
the seven fourth quarter comebacks, the heroics, the one percent plays,
(31:53):
the athleticism, all of the you know, sixth then yards
for the for the offense everything that he did else,
but like he took a big weakness the biggest strength great.
So now I assume year two in Ben Johnson's system,
year three in the league, he will drastically increase his consistency,
drastically increase his efficiency, and he's going to put up
(32:15):
some monster numbers and be a top five quarterback in football.
But he hasn't done it yet, and so I don't
have any doubt that he's about to do it. I
think he's going to be in the MVP conversation. I
think that the things that regress for the Bears he's
going to make up for by taking a step forward.
I think they could have a top five offense, if
(32:35):
not the best offense in the sport. And I think
he's going to be a super Bowl champion and an
MVP and all of the things that I've dreamt of
for thirty nine years on this earth to be the
Bears quarterback. But none of that that reasonable, excellent Caleb
take doesn't matter anymore because you say he's the third
best quarterback in the NFL and you're still on the headlines.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Well, it's funny because I said today I am keeping
justin Herbert high because I am considering Mike McDaniel is
a new OC. Jared Goff makes my top ten because
he's got Drew Pinsick from Arizona, an excellent OC.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Last year, Arizona.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Bizarrely scored a ton of points with Jacobe Prezett because
they have a very clever maybe not Ben Johnson level,
but very clever OC. Now he's in Detroit. So it
was a projection based on here's what I've seen. Here's
the elements that have been added. A star receiver, a
good OC. This is what I think we'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
You listen to.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Matt Stafford may have a left tackle issue, which would
not be that big of a deal for a Sam Darnold.
It's a huge deal for Matt Stafford because you know
they've got some issues at tackle right now because Rob
Havenstein is gone, Whitworth years ago left, and they've you know,
they've had guys.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
More than they've had stars.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So but I think when I look at Caleb, my
takeaway is and I've got a type. Matt Hasselbeck came
on later, He's like, boy, you have a type, and
my type is love Jordan love Caleb Darnold. I like thick,
big whip, move off, you know, move off, scripted play.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, me too, me too, Like it's it's more fun
to root for. It represents a higher ceiling. They need
less things to go right around them. Like if you
were going to say who is the most talented quarterback
in the NFL, I think your list is like correct,
Alan Mahomes, Caleb right, Like the pure quarterbacking talent, physical gifts.
(34:40):
I think I think those are the guys. How many
people in the league can do the thing that he
did against the Rams?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Nobody?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Right, I think Alan, Alan right, I think that might
be a two person list. Now, some people would say
Matt Stafford would never be in that position because you
would never be eighteen yards behind the line of scrimmage. Right.
There is that component to it, and I understand it.
But there is like a his one percent place. Because
(35:12):
I've made a point the other day about Caleb and
like his highlight tape, and people are in my comments like, well,
quarterbacking is in a highlight tape. I'm like, it's not
a highlight tape if you're in year nine, but if
you're in year two and year one in a system
I absolutely think that your best should be made more
heavily than your worst or your blips, because the blips
(35:33):
I can easily write off as he's young, he's learning
the offense, he's making the transition to the NFL. Oh
Doomsay is young, and Loveland is young, and Burden is young,
and like, it's a young offense. But if he can
give me the highs of MVP Mahomes and year eight
(35:54):
or nine Josh Allen like as a year two player,
I am of course gonna way the highs more heavily
for the twenty three year old in his second year
in the NFL. I'd be crazy not to.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
So there was a I try not to talk about
other hosts because what we do for a living is hard.
You're unscripted talking three hours. But I do think Dan
Patrick and Kathy Engelbert basically stiffing Dan Patrick is kind
of interesting. So, first of all, we've all had guests canceled.
Anybody that's done this local syndicated. It happens, sports politics,
(36:29):
it happens. Commissioners don't cancel. If they do, there's a
fundamental problem within their league. There's a major controversy. But
I made the argument. So I have no problem with
Dan emoting on the air because he was, you know, viscerally,
he was upset. When you're hosting a show and you
(36:51):
can see somebody over there, I've never had this and
they won't come on your show and they've scheduled it,
I'd be pissed too. And I think what makes radio
different than scripted news or writers that have copy editors.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
We are raw, we are live. Get you get.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Sometimes you get sparks. And I thought Dan had every
right to say this is ridiculous. I had no problem
with it at all. It was it was just real
quick listen.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I the video of her in the soundtrap while he
is doing the commentary shys. It was spectacular. So hats
off to their production team. That was awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, but I said this, if you really look at
what has happened to the WNBA, I said, consider all
these sports of business, the business of baseball over the
last like four years, lots of tweaks. The game was slow,
it had lost a rhythm, it took too long. They
made multiple tweaks. They've all were Rob Manford was a
(38:01):
great CEO, a great operator of a business. I think
I'm not defending the WNBA. But think about what has
happened in like three years. They bring the most popular
player ever into the league and they're just not ready
for it. I mean it's almost like a band gets
hot and the artist literally it's like Coachella happens and
(38:26):
you weren't ready for it. Now Coachella now plans for it.
But it's like an artist that gets hot and you
get a stampede.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
You don't have seats, you.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Don't have parking, you run out of food by the
second act. So Caitlin comes, they're not quite ready. It explodes,
and then they're in the middle by the second year
of contract negotiations. Then they introduce three teams. Golden State's
team has a billion dollar valuation. It is the it
is leader in the league in attendance. Toronto Tempo home Run,
(38:55):
Portland Fire home run. They introduce three new teams, all
hit and I said, what's happened is this is a
business with insane two year hypergrowth and forget that it's basketball.
They just can't get their damn arms around it. It's
now they are paranoid. They've never been criticized because they've
(39:16):
never been discussed on any of these shows, and I think,
and I'm not defending him because Kathy Engelbertner's staff, I
think we're absolutely on the wrong side with Dan and
he has every right to emote, but part of me
looks at it and I just think, you know, it's
like when Connor McGregor came to the UFC and he
had some like inappropriate moments, like remember he was throwing
(39:39):
something at a bus.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Connor was so big, so fast.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
It's like, we're you know, Dana White's like, holy shit,
we got ourselves are all ee right like and it's
it's and Connor was you know, he was just so
big and powerful and popular and fantastic, but he was
a big ass personality, right yeah. And then and then
when Tiger got on the tour, when he exploded on
(40:07):
the tour, I think a lot of the tour wasn't
quite ready for him. Like Network's got heavy criticism. They
showed him every hole, like literally, they monitored every single shot.
You didn't really do that with golf, right, So could
I make the argument these are all businesses, hyper growth
(40:29):
is just really hard. Some mistakes were absolutely predictable.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
That is a very generous read on this because let
me just let me use your examples. I've interviewed Dana
White a couple of times over the last decade, but
I do not know Dana White. I've never met him
in person, and I have a lot of like disagreements
(40:57):
with some of the things that he's done in terms
of like state answers that he's taken, inconsistencies, behavior in
his personal life, things like that, Right, But I don't
think anybody, and I do consider myself a fan of
the UFC, I don't think anybody could argue that Dana
White hasn't been a good leader and steward of mixed
(41:20):
martial arts in the UFC. He's been He's been a leader, right,
He's been a visionary, he's been out.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
He's attacked I mean, he attacked COVID. He was a
leader with.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
It, just just with with a lot of things with
just like the growth of it and having a vision
and the venue changes and the media rights deals and
defending the sport against allegations of barbarism and just like
all he's just like he has clearly been a good
leader for the UFC, even if there has been serious
(41:52):
bad moments with him. Tiger Tiger was. It's like Roger
Goodell getting a lot of credit for the media rights
deals for the NFL. It's like, I think I could
have negotiated record setting media rights deals for the NFL.
You know, Like it's just like you know, so like
the PGA Tour has had some leadership changes and issues,
(42:13):
but like anybody could have been in charge of the
PGA Tour from nineteen ninety seven to two thousand and
eight and seen exponential medioric growth like it didn't. I
have not gotten the sense that Kathy Engelbert has been
up to the task of leadership through this thing, and
(42:35):
I just think that there's been Like if Adam Silver
was the commissioner of the WNBA, I feel like this
Caitlin Clark experience would have been better. I think some
of these things are just I think they're just weird
self inflicted wounds. And agreeing to go on Dan Patrick
and then canceling is just and then blaming pr you're
(42:57):
the commissioner, they work for you, like that's that's PR one.
Oh one, that's well.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
How about the poster where they knew going in they
couldn't use Caitlin Clark's likeness and they still release the poster.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Right, and but just and the the commentary and the
fouling and the jealousy and the the allegations about what
your fans have said an arenas like, just like stronger
leadership has been needed to have a vision. We're here,
(43:29):
We're going there. I'm not expecting perfection. I'm not expecting
you to bat a thousand, But it feels too often
to me. And again, I am not watching the WNBA
with regularly. I am not an expert, so like, I
know that people don't love when other people parachute in
and comment, and it just seems to me as a
media observer and a sports observer, that too often the
(43:52):
tail has been wagging the dog with the WNBA. And
it's like we're still having these like dumb Katelyn in
Clark Debate's like she's been injured. Your league is growing,
there's a ton of great players, Like someone should just
get out in front and help reshape the narrative of
this league and not let like the bad faith online
actors determine the narratives around your league. So unlike the
(44:16):
other two examples that you used, I just feel like
if there was a little bit better leadership in pr
that they would have like there would have been turbulence,
there would have been mistakes. But this has been a
flight where like the flight attendants haven't been allowed to
get up and serve beverages. Like it's one thing to
have a little turbulence in the flight and be a
little uncomfortable. This has been like gripping the armrests, like
(44:39):
this is uncomfortable, and I just I think a lot
of it has been avoidable.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, no, I I yeah, I'd like maybe it's because
you know, they are growing.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
It is good.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
I saw it, no question they are. But it's like
a weird thing, right, Like this kind of reminds me
of our NBA conversation, Like the NBA tons of star power,
record setting, media rights deals, ratings are going up, and
part of that's because ratings are calculated in a different way.
But like, but tanking three point shooting like that, there
(45:13):
were there have been issues load management. There have been
issues around it, and like you gotta just because you
are making more money and your league is growing, doesn't
mean you have great leadership, right, like, like you could
just be you know, Bill Clinton, he's the president. The
internet explodes, it's like, hey, look the economies up.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
It's like, I don't know, man, Like I feel like
a lot of people and I'm a fan, but like,
I feel like a lot of people would have been
done pretty well economically if the Internet is invented when
they were in office.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
So I just I don't know. I just I struggle
to give them too much credit for the Caitlin Clark phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Okay, as a Chicago Bulls season ticket holder, there's two
calebs to discuss. One of them Caleb Wilson. So, Summer
League is you gotta be careful. I was talking the
other day with Jason Timpf about this is you know,
there have been legendary Summer League performers that don't do anything,
but you get glimpses. The Summer League, for the record,
(46:22):
now is almost become it really is. It's become like
another sport, like it's it's four to five weeks of
Really I don't think people understand who have never gone
to the Summer League. It's like a real business. It's
been brilliantly run. I look forward to it every year
because of this draft. You get Lindenborg and a Daima
and it's like, oh, it is fun, but Caleb Wilson is,
(46:44):
Oh wow, that's indisputable. He looks like the best player.
He and Debonca look like the best players by like
a level in the summer league. How much now now,
now we knew for the record people had said before
the draft listen, of the top four players, he may
(47:05):
have the highest ceiling. He is absolutely the least refined.
I didn't know he would come out in his first
game and be Larry Bird. He was like, he didn't
shoot threes in college. I watched them, Caroline. He just
didn't shoot from the outside. And it's hard to argue
on what you saw, the verticality, the aggressiveness, the shooting,
(47:26):
the touch. It was like it was kind of wow, right.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I mean, you know what if Jiannis and Kevin Durant
had a baby and he was Caleb Wilson. Is that
too much? Like I am so excited, Like you're a
bullseason ticket holder. I can't wait to ask you for
tickets and come to games like this kid is. I
remember being in college when the Bulls got the one
point eight percent and winning the lottery and the Derreck
(47:51):
Rose years, and I might have been a little inebriated,
and I jumped up off my couch and I started
just jumping in the air and screaming like just a
complete lunatic because Derek Rose was coming home. There hadn't
been much between ninety eight and the Derek Rose draft, right,
it was rough, and then the Rose injuries and all
of that. There hasn't been much since Derreck Rose to
(48:12):
now and Caleb Wilson is wildly exciting because of what
you mentioned with the ceiling and the explosiveness. But I mean,
just to put a number on it. At North Carolina,
he went seven of twenty seven from three in his
year at North Carolina seven of twenty seven. In his
(48:34):
summer league debut, he went seven of eleven. So he
had as many threes in his first pro basketball game
as he did his entire college career, and he was
hitting step back three. He's like, I don't care. If
it was some league, I don't care. I don't care.
If it was pick up basketball, I don't care. If
it was shooting at the Advocate Center where the Bulls practice.
(48:55):
If that dude who can jump four feet in the
air and has his wingspan can shoot seven of eleven
from three at any stretch. It's wildly exciting. And I
know I'm in a little deep on the Caleb Wilson stuff,
and I listen, I think that, like Peterson has said
all of the right things since he's been in Utah.
(49:15):
Boozer says the right things, the Bansa says the right things,
Lindenborg says the right Like these guys are media trained
and they are professional athletes before they make it to
the NBA and all of those things. So I tend
to really not overstate it. But Caleb Wilson is carrying
himself like a ten year veteran. He said he heard
(49:36):
the criticism, he heard the questions, and he wasn't able
to finish his season because of the wrist injury, and
so as soon as he got cleared, he said he
has been taking two thousand jump shots a day, two
thousand and I'm like, when I heard it, I was like, okay, kid,
that's cute. And then he's hitting step back three pointers
(49:57):
in the in the I'm like, oh, maybe you had
actually are taking two thousand jumpers a day, and he's like,
no one wants it more than me. It's like, so
I'm going to get to play against all of these guys,
like he seems like the real deal and there's awesome.
I cannot wait to watch.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Him develop well.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
And where's Kevin Garnett from. It's it's I mean, let's
let's be clear his comp when you watch him, there
is some Kevin Garnett. Like there's the length, the explosiveness.
Kevin was aggressive. I mean, by Kevin's second year he
was an All Star if I remember, so it's like, yeah,
I mean, and Kevin didn't go to college. So when
(50:39):
I watched them in the summer league, I was like, oh,
you can see some Kevin Garnett.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
That's not a huge reach, that's what he looks like.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, I mean, listen, Kevin Garnett is one of the
best two way players. You know, you know, he's an
unbelieve top fifty player ever, he's just incredible. That would
be amazing. Like I said, Giannis, I'm not like in
this where it's such a shooting league and it's so
spaced out and physicality away from the basket, you know,
(51:05):
is not as allowed. It's they wanted to be more
free flowing. It's like, why when Zion is healthy, he's
so effective because he's a sledgehammer and a finesse. League
like if Caleb Wilson can like run and slash and
jump and dunk over everybody as he gets stronger and develops,
Like you're saying, Garnett, I'm saying, like Yannis like that.
(51:28):
That to me, that is the dream of just like
the the power forward that is eleven out of ten explosive.
But if he can shoot also, it's terrifying. So yeah,
Garnett is a fun one, I said a Mari before
the drafts.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, just like real explosive, just like like the dunk
that he had in his second game. I mean yeah,
like I have a poster of it already hanging on
my wall. He was so sick. It's just it is
so exciting. And Caleb Williams, Caleb Wilson.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
Can you ever during the NBA season? Can you ever
get to Chicago?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Because I go to the Bulls games all the time.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
We have a suite upstairs. It's like a not one
of the corporate suites. It's it's below that so it's
closer to the floor. It is a great time. It
is a great time.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, I mean listen, you know it's NBA, it's NFL season,
so I work Monday through Friday. But I hear Fox
has a studio in Chicago. Maybe you know who can
get me in? Uh and yeah, the Bulls play on Saturdays.
Let's pick a let's pick a Saturday Bulls game at
the United Center, and uh, me and the wife will
come and you can pick up the dessert card. Tab
(52:43):
sounds excellent.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
Oh yeah, they it's it's at level.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
It's a listen. I don't own a suite, but I've
been in a suite at the end.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
It sweet.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
Level is strong, it's really good. It's a it's a
it's a great venue. It's a great ventu. You were
you were you at Millenie at Wrigley By the way, did.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
You know I was at Mulaney at the United Center,
Sebastian and a Cowsko at the United Center. Yeah, apparently
Wrigley Field, which it's weird. I didn't know if you'd
be able to hear the jokes. Apparently it was great.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Apparently it was. It was great. It looked great. We've
talked to comedy before I saw Millennie at the United Center. Also,
I needed to be at that Wrigley event. I wasn't
able to make it work. Buddy Guy came out, Chicago
Blues Legend played song, played Sweet Home Chicago. Richard Kind
(53:36):
Northwestern Chicago Guy kind of m seated. Fred Armisen opened,
and then David Letterman introdom and then mulaney did an
hour forty.
Speaker 3 (53:45):
Five and now he's ours.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
I gotta tell you, man, the I I saw when
he got out of rehab. My wife bought tickets and
she and went way above. It was like row one.
I'm just looking up at him. I was like, wow, yeah,
this is It was probably the best hour fifteen to
hour thirty. I remember reading the I think it was
(54:09):
Chicago Trip had a like like the comedy reviewer, like
a movie critic. Yeah, and he was complimentary, but he
you know, he was a little critical. And I'm thinking
that may have been the most courageous hour and a
half and the funniest hour and a half of comedy live.
And I've seen everybody.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
I mean, of note Millennie's Mulanie's at the top of
the mountain right now, Like yeah, I think so, yeah,
he's a he's at the he's at the top. I
mean Loui's been at the top, Chappelle's been at the top,
Rock's been at the top. In terms of like my era,
obviously Jerry for longevity and success. I don't go back
to the Carlin, you know, Murphy Ryer, like you know
(54:52):
what I mean, but like I would, I would say,
right now, top of the mountain is Mulaney. He's I think, yeah,
he's the best hour and a half.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
I mean he is also, I mean, what's interesting They
used to say this about hip hop stars, like you
talk about the pain and the struggle. You go platinum
and then you buy a boat, six cars, a giant house.
The struggle's gone, and the music's never the same, Like
it's like, oh okay, Now, obviously some people have extended
(55:22):
their careers, but it's the same. In comedy, there usually
is like a boundary, Like it's like you're hysterical, your
funny Jim Carrey three years, and then it's Mike Myers,
and then John Stewart and then it's Jerry Seinfeld. It's
hard to remain funny for a long time. And part
of what really makes Mulaney to me his ability to extend.
(55:47):
He's been great for ten years is like his personal issues,
Like it's I guess you know, ironically it's his best material.
Like he literally did an hour and a half on
falling Apart as a human being. And it's like he's
obviously a successful guy, but his ability to dissect his
(56:09):
life is I mean, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah, he's he's got he's got a he's got a
special brain. A lot of comics use obviously sadness trauma.
You know, they bear their souls on stage. They say
things on stage that they can't say to like their
wives or their husbands or whatever. Like that's like a
very common trait of comedians. Mulaye's just a that I listen,
I agree with you that tour was amazing, but I
(56:35):
also would argue that like he had the defining joke
of the Rise of Trump, like his horse in a
hospital bit is one of the funniest it's one of
the funniest things of all time. And and it's just
like so he is just I mean, he was He's
a legend in the SNL writer's room, Like he's just
he's a great writer. Like like mulaney is just a
(56:58):
great joke writer. And yeah, he he can break things
down in a pretty special way.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
So yeah, he's got it.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
I was very, very very jealous of my friends who
were at that show.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
He's got the timing. Anthony Bourdain, the late Anthony Bourdain
had this. There's a lot of big personalities as chefs,
but Bourdain's ability to tell a complicated story of a
country simply I always thought was an incredible gift. Like
he talks about and like Mulaney, he's like, I was
bailing water in my forties.
Speaker 3 (57:30):
I couldn't keep a job.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
I had burn marks all over my arm. And then
I wrote a caustic book in my life changed, and
I my son went and watched Anthony Bourdaine. I think
at like the Hartford Civic Center, you know, do an
hour and a half, and he's interested. He was just
an incredibly compelling guy and again courageous enough to go
out and just say, like, here are the mistakes I've made,
(57:53):
and I've got a lot of insecurities and flaws, and
a lot of people won't go there. Yeah, a lot
of people. I don't know much about Gordon Ramsey's life.
I know a lot about like Anthony Bourdain's life, and
I think and mulaney similarly, you know a lot of
people are hiding that stuff, and and Bordain and Millaney
just they bear it all.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
It's it's a very very soul bearing way to do it.
But I love it.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Yeah, I mean, and the and the best do that,
the best, the best, the best ones do that. So
I guess the moral of the story is, when the
bull schedule comes out, I'll send you some dates and uh,
I'll see you first slice of cheesecake at the United Center.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
M
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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