Jason reacts to a pair of Game 7s from the first round of the NBA playoffs: the Cleveland Cavaliers vs. the Toronto Raptors and the Detroit Pistons vs. the Orlando Magic. He breaks down how James Harden and Donovan Mitchell fare in their matchup against Scottie Barnes and RJ Barrett as well as Cade Cunningham vs. Paolo Banchero.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, we'll go to Hoops tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You're at the volume heavy Sunday, everybody, Oh, Bob, you
guys had an incredible weekend. Well, we have two more
games sevens finished, and the first round is officially in
the books. We're gonna be breaking down both games from
the perspective of both teams. Then we're gonna briefly talk
about a potential, well not potential anymore, the future Detroit
Pistons Cleveland Cavalier's second round matchup, which I find very
(00:37):
fascinating on several levels. Then we're gonna have Jackson come
up and we're gonna take some questions from the chats.
So if you guys have questions about anything, drop him
in the chat. We'll get to them with Jackson at
the tail end of the show. You guys are the
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(00:58):
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Speaker 1 (01:00):
That helps us a lot as well. All right, let's
talk some basketball.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So this game in the first half kind of took
on a flow that I was accustomed to from the
last couple games of this series. We talked after Game six,
I thought Cleveland had a real advantage in any sort
of close game late just because of their depth of
ball handling. They just have more dudes who could put
the ball on the floor and make something happen if
things really slow down late. But for most of the
Game five, in Game six, Toronto kind of controlled the
(01:26):
flow of the game. They had big you know, I
say big as relative, but they were leading in that
like five to twelve point range quite a bit in
Game five and in Game six and in Game seven
in the first half, right, so, like the first half
kind of stuck in that flow, Like Toronto was shooting
the ball pretty well. Both James Harden and Donovan Mitchell
were struggling just a bit to get their game off.
(01:48):
We had a couple of weird, ugly live ball turnovers
that led to transition sequences. We had this weird play
where Donovan Mitchell turns it over and doesn't get back
and you know, Dennis Schroders yelling at him. The arena
is like super super Hence, but they end up going
on a run right before the end of the first
half and they just completely dominate from there. I thought
the story of the game was the job that Jared
(02:09):
Allen and Max strusted in that third quarter. Specifically Max
Struce with his ball pressure, just picking up r J.
Barrett and Scottie Barnes full court and just preventing them
from getting comfortable at all as they were working up
the floor. And then Jared Allen when we covered Game six,
if you guys remember, one of the things I talked
about specifically was in that defensive slugfest down the stretch
(02:33):
when both teams were really struggling to score. Jared Allen
was everywhere on the tape. He was showing in help
in situations where he wasn't even involved in the action.
He was helping protect the rim, he was cleaning up
the defensive glass. He may or may not have saved
the game at the end of regulation by throwing a
close out of Jamal shadd in the left corner and
forcing him to double clutch at three.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Like the Cavs lost, but Jared.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Allen was a bright spot in that end of that
game six kind of crunch time sequence. Then we get
into tonight, and you know, I was talking about this
with Jackson before he went live. Like one of the
things with Jared Allen in some of his previous playoff
struggles is sometimes it felt like he just didn't quite
have that extra gear from like a motor slash competitiveness
(03:16):
angle to where it kind of felt like he would
get shoved around and out worked a little bit in
some of these previous playoff series that could not have
been further from the truth in Tonight's game and really
in general over the tail end of this series, like
you know, the story for a good chunk of this
was like Colin Murray Boyles going toe to toe with
Jared Allen and Evan Mobley doing damage to those guys,
(03:37):
Not tonight. Jared Allen, the efforts that he was making
all over the floor in rotation at the rimy of
five stocks in this game, The work he did on
the offensive glass, he had eight offensive rebounds, his aggression
going towards the basket. You don't get fourteen free throw
attempts if you're not catching and going up strong consistently,
and he was just all over the place in that
(03:59):
third quarter run, finishes the game with twenty two and
nineteen damn near twenty twenty with five stocks, one of
his coolest playoff moments and really a guy that you
know when you look at the situation with Evan Mobley
getting into foul trouble and just kind of struggling to
find a rhythm in the game because of that foul trouble,
Jared Allen being able to come in and basically play
big minutes as their primary rim protector and to do
(04:20):
the job he did was just super, super impressive. And
then again that extra energy brought by Max Struce and
both James Harden and Donovan Mitchell. They had a tough
matchup in this series if you look at the way
that they were being guarded. You know, Donovan Mitchell, one
of the things that stood out to me there was
a bunch of specific kind of moments during the series
where it just kind of looked like he didn't quite
have the explosive burst that he's had in previous Playoff runs.
(04:44):
This series was lacking some of the really dynamic downhill
plays that Donovan Mitchell has made in his playoff career.
There was a step back three that he hit in
the start of the third quarter in Donovan was a
huge part with his scoring in that early third quarter run.
There was a play along the left wing where he
shot to step back three and he got decent separation,
and when he finally got his one two down, like
(05:04):
when he planted his feet to rise up for the shot,
he did get good lift and he knocked it down,
but you could tell his feet were just a little
janky on the move. And it's like when Donovan's like
a one hundred percent you see just a little bit
more verve with the way that he hits that move
to get into that separation. And so Donovan, you I
don't know what the story is if we may not
(05:24):
even find out until after this playoff run is finished,
but like I think he's probably feeling a little banged
up right now. Obviously, James Harden in this type of
matchup against a big athletic team that's thrown all sorts
of bodies at him, he's having to do a lot
of drifting. He's relying on his playmaking. I thought James
Harden over the last few games of the series. Did
a really good job though, of diagnosing what the defensive
(05:45):
scheme that Toronto was using required of him, which was
to drive into the gaps and use his kickout passing
to set up quality three point shots. And throughout the series,
one of the most interesting dynamics with the way that
the two teams regarding each other was just very simple,
Guys are gonna have to knock down threes. Guys are
going to have because with Cleveland, the way that Toronto
(06:05):
was playing up into the gaps on their stars and
kind of conceding that week side corner skip, and then
with Toronto just in general the way that Cleveland was
packing the paint on them. Those three point shots were
huge swing factors in this game, and it just felt
like Cleveland hit more of the pivotal ones. They did
hit three more threes in this game and down the
stretch like pretty good look for Jamal shed Goes Begging,
(06:27):
pretty good look for RJ. Barrett at the top of
the key Goes Begging. They just weren't able to keep
up with the shot making of this Cavaliers team, and
so Cleveland survives, they advance, very very interesting challenge for
them in this first round that I think is informative
for what we can expect to see against the Detroit
Pistons in the next round. Hold on to that thought, though,
(06:48):
I want to talk briefly about Toronto and then we'll
talk a little bit about the Magic Pistons game, and
then we'll dig into what this series looks like for
both teams. On the Toronto Raptors front, You know how
you could look at this series as anything other than
kind of an impressive showing. Like I didn't think the
Raptors had much chance to compete in this series. I
(07:09):
thought they were drawing dead against the way that Cleveland
would be able to pack the paint. They were a
dramatic underdog from at the start of the series in
terms of the gambling lines, like this was a series
that they were expected to kind of just get handled,
and they gave the Cavs everything that they were worth,
and at various points like game if you go back
(07:29):
through each individual game like Game two was competitive, Cleveland
just pulled away late right like Game five, they led throughout.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
They just Cleveland ended up making a big.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Run late in the game like they were in all
of these games and had good chances, and they just
I just thought they'd put for the very competitive showing.
The top five defense that they were in the regular
season clearly manifested the depth of athletes that they can
put on ball. Just simple things like, oh, the best
guy you can target and our best lineup is like
RJ Barrett, like good luck, you know, like an RJ.
(08:00):
Over the course of the series, held up better and
better in isolation, and the way that they flew around
in rotation, like how many times did you see James
Harden or Donovan Mitchell make a nice kind of drive
into the middle that started a passing sequence that got
the ball to the corner, But here comes the Toronto
Raptors player flying out in a closeout that just made
that dude second guess the shot or end up putting
(08:21):
the ball on the floor. And the job that they
did just in those rotations to avoid conceding too many
open looks, like I just thought they were really impressive defensively.
And then Scotty Barnes, this was his coming out party
in this series. This series was the sign that you
have a real foundational star. When we talk about team building,
and this is something we've talked about with all the
(08:42):
teams that we've discussed over the course of the last
few over the last few years, when we get out
of the season, it's like the progress line is like,
who's your number one, Who's the guy that's like, I
know this guy can be the best player on a
championship team. Then you have like, who's the number two,
who's the complimentary star, really really high level player whose
game meshes well with my top tier player?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Right? And then the third piece of it is, now
that I have those top two guys and I understand
what their skill sets are and how they mesh together,
how does how do we build out the rest of
the roster to accentuate their strengths and what they are
good at? Right?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And so it's abundantly clear to me now that Toronto
has found their number one.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Now the.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Next challenge here is finding the complimentary star. I do
think that they were looking in the right territory with
Brandon Ingram in terms of like a perimeter ball handling score.
But I just don't think Brandon Ingram is good enough.
That has been abundantly clear over the course of the
season and over this postseason. So the next step for
them is trying to find a perimeter score that can
(09:47):
bring that level of burst to them on the alongside
Scottie Barnes. So, like we'll see what ends up happening
in terms of the offseason this year and what players
become available. Like it's very po possible that we see
Kevin Durant become available this offseason. It's very possible that
we see, you know, an opportunity for you know, CJ.
(10:09):
McCollum to become a free agent this year. Like, there's
there's a lot of different guys that could potentially come
available this summer, and Toronto's just got to be looking
for who that secondary score will be alongside Scotty Barnes.
And then from there, once you identify who that player is,
you can start making some big picture decisions. Scotty's such
a gifted passer that I think pairing him with shooting
is something that they're going to have to consider.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I actually really like Jamal shed I know it.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Was an up and down series for him, but the
consistent ability to get dribble penetration, which I think is
super valuable in the NBA. The ability to just to
beat someone off the dribble all season long we talked
about him and Emmanuel Quickly is two guys that just
like could initiate possessions for Toronto by beating guys off
the dribble and then he can knock down catch and
shoot threes and he can guard the ball right Like,
I like that fit, but like the look at how
(10:54):
good Jamison Battle looked along when he was able to
run like inverted action with Scotty, and how many Toronto
runs were sparked by his ability to shoot, like a
better version of that type of player, a knockdown shooter,
those kinds of We'll see if Grady Dick kind of
evolves into that type of guy. But ultimately that is
going to be the archetype that I think is going
to thrive next to such a gifted passer like Scottie Barnes.
(11:16):
You's gonna be thinking, like in that twenty eighteen Lebron
range of like you know, surround, this guy was shooting,
and he's going to be this dominant two way playmaking
athlete that's going to be able to kind of pull
everything together. But again, successful season for the Raptors.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You were above the play in line.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You were competitive in the first round series, against a
team that many many people thought would be the best
team in the East to start the season. You have
a player that has arisen as a clear top tier
superstar type of talent. Upside in the four top tiers,
maybe pushing it a little bit, but a guy that
can easily become a top ten player in this league
(11:54):
if he continues to develop with his skill set. A
lot to be excited about if you're a Raptors fan.
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New Jersey, Tennessee, or Virginia. All right, we're going to
(13:54):
move to Piston's magic first and then we'll talk a
little bit about the second round series. So this game
went exactly how I expected it to go. I talked
to you guys after Game six, and one of the
things that I that stood out to me immediately was like,
there's no coming back from that. Like, this is an
Orlando team that had been resilient at various points in
(14:14):
the first round, where like they'd find themselves down big
but then have some sort of response to keep things close.
I thought, like Game five, for example, like they took
some punches from Detroit and were able to kind of
linger around in Game five. But what happened in Game six.
You had the series in your hands, and not only
did you decompose, it was one of the most epic
collapses in the history of the playoffs. And I just
thought that would be too much for them to overcome.
(14:36):
If it wasn't for Palo coming out and shooting the
ball the way that he did today with his jump shot,
this thing would have been over sooner than it was.
But what I was expecting was at some point during
the game, Detroit was going to land a punch, and
as soon as they landed a punch, I expected Orlando
to fold. And that's pretty much what happened, and it
being Tobias Harris in the second quarter. Tobias Harris, by
the way five consecutive twenty point games to end this series.
(15:00):
He's thirty today ends up finally getting going with his
three point shot, which is really the one thing that
wasn't going for him throughout the rest of the series.
And if you dig into Tobias's playoff history, in his
previous twenty five playoff games, he had scored twenty points
just four times. He did so five times in the
(15:20):
last five games. That's how big of a difference that
consistent scoring output was from Tobias Harris compared to his
previous playoff history. When we were talking about the trade
deadline and the idea that Cade needed a secondary score,
you know, that was exactly what we were talking about,
Like he needs a guy that he can count on
(15:41):
to give him twenty points to get buckets, whether it's
a little post up, turnaround fade away, whether it's complex
close out attacking, which he did a lot of in
this series, like driving into pull ups, driving into floaters,
driving to get all the way to the rim transition scoring.
Finally got the spot up three going today, but like
they just needed somebody to that secondary score, and if
you looked at Tobias's playoff history, it was like, this
(16:04):
guy can't be that guy, which is why we discussed
at length different options for the Pistons to try to
find that type of player, and look at how much
harder they are to beat when he's got a guy
who's going bar for bar with kid. By the way,
in that second half of Game six during the comeback,
Caid was obviously amazing, but Tobias was right there with
(16:24):
him making plays. Tobias has been the facsimile of a
running mate for Cad, and if he can sustain that,
this guy's the limit for this team, because that's literally
the weakness. Caid was absolutely unbelievable again to score with
the volume and efficiency that he scored within this series,
(16:46):
with the types of defensive looks that he was seeing,
with the quality of athletes that were on him. Like,
I was already a big fan of kid, but in
many ways, this series was a coming out party for
him to be when you talk about the stakes in
the pressure, and like I already had seen some people
coming down hard on CAD when you look at the
way that this team was being discussed as an abject failure,
(17:08):
and by the way, I was one of those people
as they were down three to one. And we'll see
if those roster issues rise to the surface in later rounds.
I want to discuss that at length here because I
think it's going to matter less in some of these
later rounds. But just Caid against all odds, was just
absolutely amazing to end this series. And one of the
big things is like their defense was able to drag
(17:29):
things into the mud, and when things were into the mud,
Caid was able to find actions that worked consistently for
him to be able to generate a good shot for
himself or for his teammates.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Him having a reliable pull.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Up three point shot was super important in this series
because it was something that allowed him to score while
saving energy when he absolutely needed to get a bucket
for himself. He was able to go to guard guard
switches and to work against Orlando's smalls in the mid
range and get to a little fifteen foot pull up
that he could hit consistently with ball screens. Really, those
cleared actions in particular were the ones where he was
(18:02):
able to force the drop coverage big to make more
complex decisions whether it was pallor whether it was Wendell
Carter Junior. And he was able to set up a
lot of pockupas situations for advantages, even with like two
man game with Tobias, which I thought became super reliable
for them over the course.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Of the series.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So, like, I just thought, Kid had a masterful showing
against a team that was physically constructed to beat them.
And here's the thing, they were this close to losing,
and as I talked about at length in the show
two days ago, them surviving this means everything. Because you
lose Game six, you don't come back. The story of
(18:38):
the season is you're this dramatic disappointment who is a
victim of a one to eight upset. But if you
really dug into the basketball, it was clear what was happening.
There was a unique dynamic taking place, not just in
the half court, but in transition on the glass, where
Detroit's ability to bully teams was not. It was a
(19:00):
non factor against this particular Orlando Magic team, and it
came dis close to getting you beat, but it didn't
get you beat. And so as you move forward, as
we go to other rounds, that can now return into
the equation as something that works heavily in their favor.
We will go back to the Pistons in just a
minute to talk about the second round, but I want
(19:21):
to really quickly talk about the Orlando Magic. Would you
have potentially won the series if Franz Wagner stays healthy.
I think you probably do. I think Franz was the
steadying force for them in a lot of their tougher
circumstances throughout the series. If you look at Game one,
when Detroit was making their fourth quarter run, it was
Franz who closed the deal with this high level pick
(19:42):
and roll ball handling. When you look at Game three,
when Detroit was making their run, it was Franz and
his scoring that was able to stabilize things. Franz doesn't
have the ceiling that Paalo does, but he has a
much higher floor, and so when things really went south
for Orlando in this series, there was no Franz to
rescue Palo from his floor. And when you saw Palo's floor,
(20:03):
it's just it is lower than just about any star
in the league. Can't make jump shots, can't process, can't defend,
can't really do anything. And so you know that ended
up being something that when Franz was out of the equation,
really hurt Orlando. But you have to be realistic. We've
talked about this at every phase of the last couple
months in our prep for the postseason. The playoffs are
(20:26):
a war of attrition. They always have been, more so
than ever and they probably always will be. It's what
team gets the fewest calf strains, hamstring strains, ankle sprains,
whatever it might be. Those things do end up unfortunately
determining a lot of this stuff, and there is some
reality to the fact that Franz Wagner has just been
whether it's cursed or just bad luck or whatever it
(20:47):
might be, he's really struggled to stay on the floor
in these situations. And so like one of the things
I was I was texting with my buddy Sam Vassini
when we were watching the Cavs game, and one of
the things we were talking about with Orlando is like,
the specific thing that they so desperately need is like
a game managing ball handler, just like a grownup that
(21:11):
can handle the ball and be like the shit's hitting
the fan, You go there, you go there, We're running
this set. We're gonna get this shot for this guy,
because this is what we need in this spot to
settle things down. And the closest thing to that for
Orlando is Franz, and after Franz, they don't have anybody
like that. And I would argue even Franz isn't exactly
(21:33):
the best at it, he's just better at it than
the other magic players. And so one of the things
that I would look at, like, I think the Desmond
Main move was a real push forward in terms of
actually bringing in like a guard that can shoot like
Jalen Suggs. Love the dude, super fascinating player, does so
many good things. He just can't shoot. He just can't shoot,
(21:55):
and that limits his impact dramatically. Like his complete in
ability to knock down to catch and you jump shot
was one of the biggest reasons why the Orlando Magic
lost the series, and that has been a consistent trend
throughout his career. With Jalen Suggs. You catch him on
the right night, he's hitting everything. He looks like one
of the best players on the floor. But then you
zoom out and you look at the percentages and they're
always low thirties, right, you know, at best. And so
(22:19):
it's one of those things with with Desmond Bain where
he came in and addressed a very specific need, which
was the ability of a guy to knock down shots.
But what Desmond Bain is not is that type of
slow it down, really high level on ball, kind of
like grown up, so to speak. And so I think
that's the next step for Orlando. You have to make
(22:39):
an internal decision like do we think Franz is going
to be that guy or do we need to go
find that guy and we'll see again. Just like we
were talking about in the last segment for Toronto. You know,
Toronto's looking for a perimeter score. Orlando's looking for more
of like a game manager. So much depends on like
who becomes available when they get into this summer. Like
(23:00):
there's a version of the of this summer where you
know what, if Houston gets into business with Denver and
they do some sort of deal for like Jamal Murray
or something like that, then I'd be like Colin on
Fred Van Vliet, I'd be calling. I'd be trying to
see if you can't poach CJ. McCollums, some sort of
(23:22):
grown up they can handle the ball that can help
them get into their stuff. I think would be really
really important to help them stabilize a little bit more
with the super low lows that they've dealt with over
the course of the last few seasons. Again, for both
Toronto and Orlando, we'll spend some time digging into this
when we get to the off season. I'm not really
in that frame of mind yet. Well, well, we'll dive
(23:44):
deeper into their off season potential when we actually get
out of the playoffs. Last thing, with Orlando though, internal
development on jump shooting, Like I should say second to
last thing because I want to talk about Jamal Moseley
for a second. But in turn, the best pathway to
improve your team is internal development because trades are really
hard to make. Draft picks come with a certain amount
(24:06):
of variants. No matter how good your scouting department is,
it's just really hard to evaluate an eighteen year old
or nineteen year old or a twenty year old. Guys
need to get in the gym and they need to
become better jump shooters. That goes for Palo, that goes
for Franz, that goes for Wendell. Jamal Caine was a
standout in this playoff run. Huge step forward in the
rotation to find another guy like that that can guard
(24:28):
the other team's best player and make some plays off
the bounce. But he could spend some time in the
gym working on a shot. Jalen Suggs has to work
on his shot, Anthony Black has to work on his shot.
That every one of these dudes needs to spend the
reps in the offseason working on their jump shots so
they can help make this a little bit easier for them.
This summer, and then lastly Jamal Mosley. I've been critical
of him throughout this all, including during the season when
(24:49):
things were going well for Orlando, and like I had
an Orlando Magic fan in my mentions when they were
up three to one, that's like, still want Mosley fired,
And then my head, I'm like, yeah, yeah, just like
Jamal Moseley. The problem is this team desperately needs organization
on offense and they just could not be further from that.
(25:11):
It's way too much just Polo standing at the top
of the key calling for guard guard screens, and he's
never been a good enough passer to hit the hedge,
the slip out of the hedge. So like, when I
think about with Orlando is like, what if you got
a guy who really got them into organized offense to
where every single possession Palo is essentially starting from a
(25:34):
position of advantage and in a situation where instead of
just one guard coming to screen for him, everything is
part of a three man action and there's more opportunity
for mistake, more opportunity to get him downhill without having
to like, you know, overpower a smaller player. And I
just think that offensive organization piece has been dreadfully lacking
(25:55):
for Orlando for years now, and it's one of the
easiest things to do to help make life a little
bit easier for this team. But as we've talked about
so many times, that's only part of it. You need
the guys on the floor to be able to process
on the fly, and that's a weakness with this team.
And so again I will dig into it more this
summer and try to come up with a list of
guys and we'll see who becomes available when we get
(26:16):
to the offseason.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
But the Magic need a.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Grown up ball handler that can put Palo into more
of a play finishing role rather than the guy who's
determining every possession thirty five feet from the basket with
a live dribble. Moving on to the next round. I
like this matchup for the Pistons in every single way,
except for Jalen Duran's ability to guard ball screens. What
(26:41):
made Cleveland struggle physical ball pressure, playing in the gaps,
incredible defensive rotations, the difficulty finding favorable matchups to attack
on the floor, just the overwhelming physical that Toronto brought
to bear even on offense. Just like, look at how
(27:04):
much of a pain in the ass Scottie Barnes was
for them to guard. Look at how much of a
pain in the ass Colin Murray Boyles was for them
on the offensive glass and finishing around the basket. Detroit
similar to what we were talking about with the OKC
Houston dynamic and how different OKAC is than Houston for
the Lakers, Detroit is quite simply just a way better version.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Of Toronto.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Better on ball defenders, more depth of on ball defenders,
more rim protection. Although the Durn thing gets a little complicated,
we'll talk about that in a minute. Cade's just a better,
more polished version of Scotty Barnes right now, not defensively
but offensively. He's a power ball handler that can score
from all three levels at a super high level and
(27:50):
can play make at a really high level. You don't
really have the big wing that can match up with Cad.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's an issue.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Jared Allen and Evan Mobley are both a little bit
thin and upright and can get shoved around by Isaiah
Stewart and can get shoved around by Jalen Durtan. And look,
I know Cleveland had some success versus Detroit in the
regular season, and I'm not making my pick tonight. I'm
gonna dig into the film and we'll have an answer
for you guys tomorrow morning on that front. But my
initial gut feeling is Detroit can ratchet it up defensively
(28:23):
in a way that Minnesota can, that Oklahoma City can,
And you would be fooling yourself if you think it's
gonna look like a regular season game when you're playing
against the Detroit Pistons in the next round. Orlando was
physically built to hold up under that onslaught. Cleveland is
giving up muscle mass in large quantities at every single
(28:49):
position in this matchup. I worry about Donovan Mitchell and
James Harden being able to just get the ball up
the floor and get into their stuff. I wororry about
Mobley and Allen finishing in traffic. I worry about guys
knocking down shots. They struggled to knock down shots against
Toronto's closeouts. Detroit's closeouts are even tougher. The one thing
(29:13):
that I think that complicates matters for me, and why
I really want to watch the film before I watch
the regular season games again, before I dig into coming
up with the final answer, is Jalen Duran has been
truly terrible on defense for the most part in each
of his two playoff series that he's played in at
this point, and especially a bad against the Knicks team
(29:36):
that could really space him out, that had high quality
ball handling and roll and basket rollers. Right, I worry
about if James Harden and Donovan Mitchell can get the
ball to the floor and can get into ball screens,
that Duran's gonna have a nightmare time trying to guard
these guys. That is one thing that I think favors Cleveland.
(29:56):
But my initial gut feeling is to pick the Troit
and to pick them relatively quick in like six games.
That's my initial gut feeling, Like I have a feeling
that they would go up two to zero in the series,
shake Cleveland's confidence, and Cleveland would have a hard time
tying that series at home and sending it back to Detroit.
(30:16):
This is where I wanted, like all these Detroit fans
that were thinking I didn't like the team, It's not
about that. It was all about the matchups. Orlando's a
very unique team. Cleveland is a very different team, and
I worry about Cleveland handling a bloodbath fistfight, and Toronto
did a lot of damage to them with lesser versions
of this type of personnel. The only difference is they
(30:38):
played a lot more small ball and they had a
little bit more switchability to them than this Detroit team has.
But that's just the one difference I think Detroit. And
by the way, when it comes to Duran, what would
I do? Sit him back in a deep drop coverage
and have a sar Thompson hounded the living shit out
of Donovan and have you know, uh Javonte Green hound
(31:01):
the living shit out of the ball, and like really
just get into ball pressure and and force the Calves
to play a very uncomfortable brand of basketball with Duran
sitting back at the basket rather than showing out at
the perimeter.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
So again, I'm watching a.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Bunch of film tomorrow morning and I'll have a series
preview for you guys, and I'll have a pick. But
my initial gut impression is, like, I think Detroit has
a lot of physical advantages in this series that they
did not have in the last round. And we have
just seen so many examples between Minnesota and Oklahoma City
and even Indiana to a lesser extent, more speed ball
pressure wise, but like what Toronto just did, like what
(31:39):
Houston almost did to a Lakers team. Like being big, strong,
fast and playing really hard on defense is a great
way to win playoff games in the modern NBA, and
Detroit is like one of the very best at it.
And the reason why they were able to come back
against Orlando is they held them to like nineteen points
and a half.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And like that.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's the dynamic that would scare me if I was
a Cavs fan. All right, let's bring Jackson up here.
Let's get into some questions.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Let's do it first.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
One is a super chat from Brets, not a question
as much as his sort of take on the Calves
Pistons series. He said, I think the Calves will have
some success in the first half of the series offensively,
but I think by games five through seven, the Pistons
physicality will wear Mitchell and Hardened down, need out and
Mobile to play excellent to.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Have a shot.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, that's the Mobile and Allen are really the key
because there's several specific areas where they have to hold up.
They gotta said good screens in terms of like freeing
up Mitchell and Mitchell and hardened like getting downhill.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Into balls, into ball screen attacks.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Because like when we talk about Duran, the specific dynamic
I fear is him guarding in pick and roll when
he has to defend two players, whether that's showing at
the level, whether that's Uh in a drop coverage, navigating
the like roller and the driver coming right at him.
And the only way to really engage Duran in those
(33:09):
actions is to get a good screen so that Durren
has to show, so that Durren has to come higher.
And what that that puts a level of physicality on
Mobiley and Allen in terms of their ability to set
screens and navigate that dynamic. And then the second piece
of it is this is a Pistons team that can
do a lot of damage on the offensive glass. Between
(33:31):
a sar Thompson crashing like crazy, between Duran crashing like
crazy throwing bodies around. Isaiah Stewart does the same thing.
So like I would call it like a fail point,
like if Mitchell, if a Mobley and Allen can't hold
up physically under the Detroit onslaught, I think they're doomed.
And so I agree with you that I think that
that's a key kind of pivot point of the series.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
One more super track question we got from Chase how
much pressure is on Kde to be the best player
in the series.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
How do you weigh Detroit's.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Physical advantages against Cleveland's skill advantages and better offensive spacing.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
As we've seen throughout the series. I'm not actually pull
up the numbers now because I'm curious. Cleveland didn't shoot
well really in that first round series, And a big
part of that is, like shooting is all fun and
games in the regular season when things are loose and free,
and then it just gets a lot tougher when you
land into some of these like like super intense defenses
that are throwing crazy closeouts, and so I just I'm
(34:32):
pulling up.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
The numbers right now.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Like Cleveland shot in that first round series against Toronto,
they shot thirty four point five percent from three thirty
two percent on catch and shoots thirty two percent on
catch and shoot threes. That's like, that's really not going
(34:55):
to cut it against Detroit, And like that's what would
scare me, is like that's the same real kind of
dynamic that you're going to see now as far as
Caid goes, I'm really not worried about him, and there's
a couple of specific reasons why.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
One, the pressure dynamic gets a little more.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Complicated when there's multiple ball handlers and you're like able
to defer a little bit. And you saw that a
little bit with Mitchell and Harden in this series, where
Mitchell would have stretches where he's like kind of leaning
a lot on Hardened because Mitchell's just really struggling and
Kate really has no choice but to figure it out.
And one of the things that I thought was fascinating
(35:36):
in that first round series was like Kate had really
bad stretches, but he just kept going and he just
kept attacking because again, he had no choice but to
continue to be aggressive because he was the only guy.
So like to me, like Caid's gonna have easier perimeter
defenders to go against and plenty of time over the
course of the series, especially with home court advantage, to
(35:56):
kind of figure out where he wants to attack. Like
I I think Kate's easily the best player in this series,
and I think he's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
I agree, And what you just said reminds me takes
me back to this is bring little PTSD for me
but tyres Maxi's press conference last night after the game
when he said that once js I feel like I
got a little bit misconstrued by some people as taking
a shot, and I don't think he's taken a shot
at all, he said, Once JT was out, we thought
this series would be even harder because the Celtics would
play way more free. Like you saw Derek White took
(36:24):
sixteen threes. He was just letting shit go. He had
no worries in the world. And it's the exact and
reminded me exactly what you were just saying about Kate,
where he has no fucking choice. He has just got
to go and go and go, and a bad streat
does not mean shit. He just got to keep fucking going.
And I think he's definitely the best player in the series.
And I think that's probably why I personally am leading
to Troy.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, like, if he's one for eleven in the first
half and they're down by thirteen points, he's got to
come out and take fifteen shots in the second half,
just lily, he has no choice, So like, yeah, like
I I even think for Tobias, although Tobias is gonna
run into a lot of Evan Mobley, I'm sure in
this series, and that'll be an interesting kind of wrinkle.
But uh, but Kate's gonna have some real size advantages,
(37:10):
like whether it's like kind of upright skinny guys like
Dean Wade where I think Kid's gonna like really be
able to get angles on him, or a lot of
dudes that are in that like Sam Meryl, Max Strus,
Jalen Tyson range where he's like two three inches taller
than all of them, and whereas like when he would
struggle in the Orlando series, it was like Franz Wagner
on the ball, like doing really really good work, you know,
(37:30):
Like it's just it's a physical mismatch in so many
different position groups.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
For Cleveland in this series.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
Yeah, we got a question about how do you think
the teams are gonna match up and who's gonna guard you?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I also have like sort of a more specific question,
which is.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Cleveland and James Hard and Donovan Mitchell are just dramatically
better at attacking mismatches than anyone Orlando had, Right, So
that's true. Because of that is what's the Duncan Robinson situation?
Like how playable is Duncan Robinson because he feels so
crucial to.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
That offensively right now, And I thought he's been playing.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
You played really well in the first round overall, but
you don't want that, dude, Garden James Harden.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, you know, I thought a lot about that too,
as soon as I started to talk about the matchups,
and it's like, okay, who's the star Thompson guarding? And
I think where it gets tricky is like I would
play Do you guys remember some of you guys might
remember this when we talked about the game plan for
UH Phoenix against Minnesota in the first round like three
(38:30):
years ago, But they had this really interesting game plan
for the Mike Conley Anthony Edwards dynamic, where with AUNT
they were playing at the level because they wanted to
turn it into a passer, but then with Mike they
were playing deep drop because they wanted to turn Mike
into a score. And it didn't matter because Minnesota just
(38:50):
physically mauled Phoenix and played in transition and Aunt dunked
all over Bradley Beale harder than anybody's ever dunked on anybody,
and that was the end of it. But I kind
of imagine a similar kind of game plan where I
think I would deploy a star on James and not
switch anything with him and just be like, we're running
(39:14):
deep drop with James, and I'll be like, let's see
how well you score against our drop coverage with the
sar Thompson all over you?
Speaker 3 (39:22):
All right, how many floaters are gonna head?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:25):
And then with Donovan, I'd throw the kitchen sink at
him and I'd be like, Okay, if it ends up
being Tobias as the initial arcade, let's say it's Kate, Like,
I'd even just go to Kate and I'd be like,
you guard don and then just any screen, I'm just
that guy's trapping or that guy's coming up to the level.
(39:45):
And I'm basically going to force Donovan to be a
passer all series long and count of my ability to rotate.
And then I'm gonna have James Harden have to deal
with the sar Thompson on the ball all series long,
and I think that's the way that I would do it.
I do want to dive into the film though, again,
because like there's some wrinkles there that could get tricky. So,
for instance, like Asar Thompson was really really good off
(40:07):
ball in the first round as like a rim protector,
and if you deploy him on James, that kind of
mitigates that element of his defense. But I think there
are other guys that could fill into that role. And
to your point, I think, like I wouldn't be surprised
if over the course of the series it went from
from Duncan to more of like a Karros Lavert in
Laverts guarding Donovan in a similar kind of like we're
(40:31):
hedging or showing hard on screens to try to get
the ball out of Donovan's hands, but we're like faster,
and like I Duncan's spacing was a lot more important.
Same goes for Danis. The spacing is more important when
you can't bully people. But I really think Detroit's gonna
be able to manufacture points even in a packed paint
in this series just by going through people's chests, and
(40:54):
so I think they're gonna need Duncan a little less
in this series than they did in previous series.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Next question, we're gonna move on from this series.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
We got a fun question. Do you think twenty eighteen
Lebron James on this current Lakers team would could beat
the Thunder or is the gap just too big even
for that one.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's too big, James, It's too big.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
I like, twenty eighteen Lebron is the best basketball player
that I've ever laid eyes on, but like we are
talking about a dramatic talent mismatch down the line, and like,
I don't think Shae is as good as twenty eighteen Lebron,
but he's in the stratosphere. Like, it's not like the
twenty eighteen Lebron over Shae is such a dramatic advantage
(41:39):
that it's.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Impossible to overcome.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
And so like, as much as I'd love to channel
the inner Bron stand there, I just don't think that
that that would cut it.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
That's funny. Next question, which series?
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Well, I guess we probably have an answered to the
first part of this question, But which series do you
expect to be the shortest next round? Which series do
you expect to be the longest the next round?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I think Minnesota San Antonio is gonna go long. I
think Philly, New York's gonna go along. I think that
Lakers Rockets or Lakers Thunder will be fast, and I
think that I think that Pistons Calves might be the
second fastest. Like if you told me the Pistons beat
the Cabs in five games, I would not be surprised. Hmm, okay,
(42:24):
I'll probably if I pick them, I'm probably gonna pick
them in six. But like if you told me they
won games one, two, four, and five, I would not
be surprised.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Last question for the night, a little bit of a
step back from the playoffs, because there's been a lot
of conversation about Steve Kerr recently in the Warriors recently.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
What do you think the Warriors offseason should look like?
Should it? Do you want them to bring to or not?
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Do you want them to do you think they should
bring back Kerr and extended Raymond and sort of try
to just retool around this sort of core or sort
of move in a.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Big, big new direction.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
Keeps Steph there obviously, but like new coach sort of
new direction.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
So I don't think there's any I mean, and you
can tell me if you dogree, but I don't think
they have a young player that's a foundational young player,
like Pods is a good player, but he's not a
foundational young player.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
So the truth of the.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Matter is is like when Steph is gone, You're going
to be really bad, like really extraordinarily bad.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
So there is no like.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
So like, let's say, for instance, you kept Kaminga, you
could talk me into like a, hey, let's sit down
with Steve and be like, hey, dude, you get to
keep coaching the team. But Kminga has a mandatory minimum
of you know, thirty two minutes a game and all
that shit, right, and force him to try to develop
something there. But as you and I both believe, like
I know, we had a bunch of COMINGA stands on
our case after those two good playoff games, but then
(43:41):
he was really bad in the next two and frankly
or next three, I should say, and frankly like I
didn't think Kminga was a foundational level a level player either, right,
So would that be in the case I do think
that you need a foundational player. Therefore you can't really
start trading first round picks. But I would go talent
(44:03):
hunting on the more aggressive side with older stars, so like,
and I think I'd be willing to spend like one first.
So like, for instance, if you could if you could
go get like kd, if you could go get Kawhi
if you could somehow convince Lebron to sign on a discount,
Like those are the kinds of guys where like I'd
(44:24):
go star hunting with them. But I wouldn't move multiple
picks for Giannis. I wouldn't sacrifice like a first round
pick for a role player. I would go star hunting
with like maybe one pick.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I do.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Did you see the report that seems most likely coming back, Like,
I think the reporting.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Has been so all over the place with that, but yeah,
I think he'll be.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Back, yeah yeah, And and frankly with Steve Kerr, like
it may I think it would be weird to watch
the Steph Curry team coach without Steve Kerr and like
so like I think it's okay to sit down and
be like, all right, dude, this we run no ball
screens and all we do is run pinch post and
and uh flex cuts and you know, like split cuts
(45:11):
and all of this Chicago action and everything's off ball
action thing that just can lead to a lot of
turnovers and can struggle to allow the modern young on
ballplayer to get comfortable kind of thing. I think there's
some truth to the fact that Steve needs to be
more amenable to kind of running more spread pick and roll,
(45:31):
running more stack, like this is a team that should
be running a lot of stack with Steph Curry on
the ball or Steph Curry setting the back screen, like
this is a team that probably needs to evolve a
little bit offensively. But I think you can get Steve
on board with that. And so, like I was secretly
this whole time hoping Steve would come back, I agree.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
And on the I think I'm in a similar place
with the first round of picks, Like I think if
Steve Curry is coming back, I just by the way
that we understand the organization, I assume that me and
Steph Curry is like, I want Steve Kerr back.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Let's we need to bring back Steve curR, right. So
if that's happening, then you.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Know that Steph Curry is bought in for one, two,
three years, however many years that is. Then I would
go to Steph Curry and be like, how long do
you want to play for this organization? Because as long
as you're playing for this organization, where I'm comfortable trading
first round picks during that timeline would be my approach.
If we have Steph Curry playing and he looks very good.
I would I say, you think you're gonna be here
(46:24):
through twenty seven and twenty eight, then we are. Then
I'm comfortable trading twenty seven and twenty eight first round picks.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
And I'm not Steph. Sorry, bro, but I'm not trading
picks beyond when you're going to be here.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
Yeah. I think that seems like a pretty reasonable compromise
to be, like, let's try to we don't have shit
beyond Steph Curry after this is I like pods, they're gonna.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
Be bad when Steph Curry retires.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
So I would try to bring back the guys that
you know can play well together, tweaks and stuff at
the margins, try to upgrade with a first round pick
or two, depending on how far down the road you
feel comfortable going. I think I would be comfortable trading
first round picks for seasons that Steph Curry is on
the roster personally.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, I I think that that's a good way to
put it. Like that way, if they do decide to
quote unquote tank under whatever the new version of tanking,
looks like they own their draft picks after the fact.
But you have some semblance of a competitive roster in
the short term. I think I think that makes sense
to me, and like, actually, let me let me put
it to you this way, if Kevin Durant did become
(47:23):
available this summer, would you consider going after him?
Speaker 3 (47:25):
For sure?
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Absolutely, It'd be hard to find a player that would
make sense for Houston under the circumstances. Yeah, But like,
I think Houston's probably gonna go the other way and
trade Shangun for Yannis.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
That's what I like.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
I just have this feeling like that that's what they're
gonna do. But but yeah, like there's I I think
if they ended up with one of the Kawhi lebron
kd trio, that would that would make for a really
fun next season. All Right, guys, that's all we have
for tonight. As always, we sincerely appreciate you for supporting
us and supporting the show. We have a couple of
(48:02):
episodes coming out tomorrow. I'm gonna do a new contender
rankings that kind of reflects like, hey, two of our
top four contenders are eliminated, so we kind of need
to talk about what that means and how all these
other teams stack up.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
So I'm gonna do a.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Contender rankings tomorrow morning, and then I'm gonna do a
series preview on Cavs Pistons, So those two videos will
both come out at some point during the day. I
already recorded Lakers Thunder that's coming out I think at
six am Pacific time tomorrow, so that'll be out relatively
early tomorrow, and I think that's it for series previews.
We did Nick's six ers earlier today. If you haven't
(48:35):
seen that, This a little bit further back on the feed,
and then we're right back at it. Tonight was our
what fifteenth consecutive of night and so tomorrow will be
number sixteen. We'll be right back at it with a
very bizarre overlap schedule tonight or tomorrow night and Tuesday.
For whatever reason, the games kind of overlap. Son'll bear
with me in terms of like actually being able to
cover both games in full detail. That's going to be
(48:55):
something that gets a little tricky. But we will be
live after the final buzzer of Wolves Spurs.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Tomorrow night on YouTube. I'll see you guys then,
The volume. All right, we'll go to Hoops tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You're at the volume heavy Sunday, everybody, Oh, Bob, you
guys had an incredible weekend. Well, we have two more
games sevens finished, and the first round is officially in
the books. We're gonna be breaking down both games from
the perspective of both teams. Then we're gonna briefly talk
about a potential, well not potential anymore, the future Detroit
Pistons Cleveland Cavalier's second round matchup, which I find very
(00:37):
fascinating on several levels. Then we're gonna have Jackson come
up and we're gonna take some questions from the chats.
So if you guys have questions about anything, drop him
in the chat. We'll get to them with Jackson at
the tail end of the show. You guys are the
joke before we get already subscribe to Hoops and not
YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos.
We're on the pathway to one hundred and fifty thousand subs,
so it mean a lot to me if you guys
would take a second to scroll down and hit that
subscribe button. If you're already subscribed, hit that like button
(00:58):
and then sign up for post notification.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
That helps us a lot as well. All right, let's
talk some basketball.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So this game in the first half kind of took
on a flow that I was accustomed to from the
last couple games of this series. We talked after Game six,
I thought Cleveland had a real advantage in any sort
of close game late just because of their depth of
ball handling. They just have more dudes who could put
the ball on the floor and make something happen if
things really slow down late. But for most of the
Game five, in Game six, Toronto kind of controlled the
(01:26):
flow of the game. They had big you know, I
say big as relative, but they were leading in that
like five to twelve point range quite a bit in
Game five and in Game six and in Game seven
in the first half, right, so, like the first half
kind of stuck in that flow, Like Toronto was shooting
the ball pretty well. Both James Harden and Donovan Mitchell
were struggling just a bit to get their game off.
(01:48):
We had a couple of weird, ugly live ball turnovers
that led to transition sequences. We had this weird play
where Donovan Mitchell turns it over and doesn't get back
and you know, Dennis Schroders yelling at him. The arena
is like super super Hence, but they end up going
on a run right before the end of the first
half and they just completely dominate from there. I thought
the story of the game was the job that Jared
(02:09):
Allen and Max strusted in that third quarter. Specifically Max
Struce with his ball pressure, just picking up r J.
Barrett and Scottie Barnes full court and just preventing them
from getting comfortable at all as they were working up
the floor. And then Jared Allen when we covered Game six,
if you guys remember, one of the things I talked
about specifically was in that defensive slugfest down the stretch
(02:33):
when both teams were really struggling to score. Jared Allen
was everywhere on the tape. He was showing in help
in situations where he wasn't even involved in the action.
He was helping protect the rim, he was cleaning up
the defensive glass. He may or may not have saved
the game at the end of regulation by throwing a
close out of Jamal shadd in the left corner and
forcing him to double clutch at three.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Like the Cavs lost, but Jared.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Allen was a bright spot in that end of that
game six kind of crunch time sequence. Then we get
into tonight, and you know, I was talking about this
with Jackson before he went live. Like one of the
things with Jared Allen in some of his previous playoff
struggles is sometimes it felt like he just didn't quite
have that extra gear from like a motor slash competitiveness
(03:16):
angle to where it kind of felt like he would
get shoved around and out worked a little bit in
some of these previous playoff series that could not have
been further from the truth in Tonight's game and really
in general over the tail end of this series, like
you know, the story for a good chunk of this
was like Colin Murray Boyles going toe to toe with
Jared Allen and Evan Mobley doing damage to those guys,
(03:37):
Not tonight. Jared Allen, the efforts that he was making
all over the floor in rotation at the rimy of
five stocks in this game, The work he did on
the offensive glass, he had eight offensive rebounds, his aggression
going towards the basket. You don't get fourteen free throw
attempts if you're not catching and going up strong consistently,
and he was just all over the place in that
(03:59):
third quarter run, finishes the game with twenty two and
nineteen damn near twenty twenty with five stocks, one of
his coolest playoff moments and really a guy that you
know when you look at the situation with Evan Mobley
getting into foul trouble and just kind of struggling to
find a rhythm in the game because of that foul trouble,
Jared Allen being able to come in and basically play
big minutes as their primary rim protector and to do
(04:20):
the job he did was just super, super impressive. And
then again that extra energy brought by Max Struce and
both James Harden and Donovan Mitchell. They had a tough
matchup in this series if you look at the way
that they were being guarded. You know, Donovan Mitchell, one
of the things that stood out to me there was
a bunch of specific kind of moments during the series
where it just kind of looked like he didn't quite
have the explosive burst that he's had in previous Playoff runs.
(04:44):
This series was lacking some of the really dynamic downhill
plays that Donovan Mitchell has made in his playoff career.
There was a step back three that he hit in
the start of the third quarter in Donovan was a
huge part with his scoring in that early third quarter run.
There was a play along the left wing where he
shot to step back three and he got decent separation,
and when he finally got his one two down, like
(05:04):
when he planted his feet to rise up for the shot,
he did get good lift and he knocked it down,
but you could tell his feet were just a little
janky on the move. And it's like when Donovan's like
a one hundred percent you see just a little bit
more verve with the way that he hits that move
to get into that separation. And so Donovan, you I
don't know what the story is if we may not
(05:24):
even find out until after this playoff run is finished,
but like I think he's probably feeling a little banged
up right now. Obviously, James Harden in this type of
matchup against a big athletic team that's thrown all sorts
of bodies at him, he's having to do a lot
of drifting. He's relying on his playmaking. I thought James
Harden over the last few games of the series. Did
a really good job though, of diagnosing what the defensive
(05:45):
scheme that Toronto was using required of him, which was
to drive into the gaps and use his kickout passing
to set up quality three point shots. And throughout the series,
one of the most interesting dynamics with the way that
the two teams regarding each other was just very simple,
Guys are gonna have to knock down threes. Guys are
going to have because with Cleveland, the way that Toronto
(06:05):
was playing up into the gaps on their stars and
kind of conceding that week side corner skip, and then
with Toronto just in general the way that Cleveland was
packing the paint on them. Those three point shots were
huge swing factors in this game, and it just felt
like Cleveland hit more of the pivotal ones. They did
hit three more threes in this game and down the
stretch like pretty good look for Jamal shed Goes Begging,
(06:27):
pretty good look for RJ. Barrett at the top of
the key Goes Begging. They just weren't able to keep
up with the shot making of this Cavaliers team, and
so Cleveland survives, they advance, very very interesting challenge for
them in this first round that I think is informative
for what we can expect to see against the Detroit
Pistons in the next round. Hold on to that thought, though,
(06:48):
I want to talk briefly about Toronto and then we'll
talk a little bit about the Magic Pistons game, and
then we'll dig into what this series looks like for
both teams. On the Toronto Raptors front, You know how
you could look at this series as anything other than
kind of an impressive showing. Like I didn't think the
Raptors had much chance to compete in this series. I
(07:09):
thought they were drawing dead against the way that Cleveland
would be able to pack the paint. They were a
dramatic underdog from at the start of the series in
terms of the gambling lines, like this was a series
that they were expected to kind of just get handled,
and they gave the Cavs everything that they were worth,
and at various points like game if you go back
(07:29):
through each individual game like Game two was competitive, Cleveland
just pulled away late right like Game five, they led throughout.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
They just Cleveland ended up making a big.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Run late in the game like they were in all
of these games and had good chances, and they just
I just thought they'd put for the very competitive showing.
The top five defense that they were in the regular
season clearly manifested the depth of athletes that they can
put on ball. Just simple things like, oh, the best
guy you can target and our best lineup is like
RJ Barrett, like good luck, you know, like an RJ.
(08:00):
Over the course of the series, held up better and
better in isolation, and the way that they flew around
in rotation, like how many times did you see James
Harden or Donovan Mitchell make a nice kind of drive
into the middle that started a passing sequence that got
the ball to the corner, But here comes the Toronto
Raptors player flying out in a closeout that just made
that dude second guess the shot or end up putting
(08:21):
the ball on the floor. And the job that they
did just in those rotations to avoid conceding too many
open looks, like I just thought they were really impressive defensively.
And then Scotty Barnes, this was his coming out party
in this series. This series was the sign that you
have a real foundational star. When we talk about team building,
and this is something we've talked about with all the
(08:42):
teams that we've discussed over the course of the last
few over the last few years, when we get out
of the season, it's like the progress line is like,
who's your number one, Who's the guy that's like, I
know this guy can be the best player on a
championship team. Then you have like, who's the number two,
who's the complimentary star, really really high level player whose
game meshes well with my top tier player?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Right? And then the third piece of it is, now
that I have those top two guys and I understand
what their skill sets are and how they mesh together,
how does how do we build out the rest of
the roster to accentuate their strengths and what they are
good at? Right?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And so it's abundantly clear to me now that Toronto
has found their number one.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Now the.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Next challenge here is finding the complimentary star. I do
think that they were looking in the right territory with
Brandon Ingram in terms of like a perimeter ball handling score.
But I just don't think Brandon Ingram is good enough.
That has been abundantly clear over the course of the
season and over this postseason. So the next step for
them is trying to find a perimeter score that can
(09:47):
bring that level of burst to them on the alongside
Scottie Barnes. So, like we'll see what ends up happening
in terms of the offseason this year and what players
become available. Like it's very po possible that we see
Kevin Durant become available this offseason. It's very possible that
we see, you know, an opportunity for you know, CJ.
(10:09):
McCollum to become a free agent this year. Like, there's
there's a lot of different guys that could potentially come
available this summer, and Toronto's just got to be looking
for who that secondary score will be alongside Scotty Barnes.
And then from there, once you identify who that player is,
you can start making some big picture decisions. Scotty's such
a gifted passer that I think pairing him with shooting
is something that they're going to have to consider.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I actually really like Jamal shed I know it.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Was an up and down series for him, but the
consistent ability to get dribble penetration, which I think is
super valuable in the NBA. The ability to just to
beat someone off the dribble all season long we talked
about him and Emmanuel Quickly is two guys that just
like could initiate possessions for Toronto by beating guys off
the dribble and then he can knock down catch and
shoot threes and he can guard the ball right Like,
I like that fit, but like the look at how
(10:54):
good Jamison Battle looked along when he was able to
run like inverted action with Scotty, and how many Toronto
runs were sparked by his ability to shoot, like a
better version of that type of player, a knockdown shooter,
those kinds of We'll see if Grady Dick kind of
evolves into that type of guy. But ultimately that is
going to be the archetype that I think is going
to thrive next to such a gifted passer like Scottie Barnes.
(11:16):
You's gonna be thinking, like in that twenty eighteen Lebron
range of like you know, surround, this guy was shooting,
and he's going to be this dominant two way playmaking
athlete that's going to be able to kind of pull
everything together. But again, successful season for the Raptors.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You were above the play in line.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You were competitive in the first round series, against a
team that many many people thought would be the best
team in the East to start the season. You have
a player that has arisen as a clear top tier
superstar type of talent. Upside in the four top tiers,
maybe pushing it a little bit, but a guy that
can easily become a top ten player in this league
(11:54):
if he continues to develop with his skill set. A
lot to be excited about if you're a Raptors fan.
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called one eight hundred gambler in Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Michigan,
New Jersey, Tennessee, or Virginia. All right, we're going to
(13:54):
move to Piston's magic first and then we'll talk a
little bit about the second round series. So this game
went exactly how I expected it to go. I talked
to you guys after Game six, and one of the
things that I that stood out to me immediately was like,
there's no coming back from that. Like, this is an
Orlando team that had been resilient at various points in
(14:14):
the first round, where like they'd find themselves down big
but then have some sort of response to keep things close.
I thought, like Game five, for example, like they took
some punches from Detroit and were able to kind of
linger around in Game five. But what happened in Game six.
You had the series in your hands, and not only
did you decompose, it was one of the most epic
collapses in the history of the playoffs. And I just
thought that would be too much for them to overcome.
(14:36):
If it wasn't for Palo coming out and shooting the
ball the way that he did today with his jump shot,
this thing would have been over sooner than it was.
But what I was expecting was at some point during
the game, Detroit was going to land a punch, and
as soon as they landed a punch, I expected Orlando
to fold. And that's pretty much what happened, and it
being Tobias Harris in the second quarter. Tobias Harris, by
the way five consecutive twenty point games to end this series.
(15:00):
He's thirty today ends up finally getting going with his
three point shot, which is really the one thing that
wasn't going for him throughout the rest of the series.
And if you dig into Tobias's playoff history, in his
previous twenty five playoff games, he had scored twenty points
just four times. He did so five times in the
(15:20):
last five games. That's how big of a difference that
consistent scoring output was from Tobias Harris compared to his
previous playoff history. When we were talking about the trade
deadline and the idea that Cade needed a secondary score,
you know, that was exactly what we were talking about,
Like he needs a guy that he can count on
(15:41):
to give him twenty points to get buckets, whether it's
a little post up, turnaround fade away, whether it's complex
close out attacking, which he did a lot of in
this series, like driving into pull ups, driving into floaters,
driving to get all the way to the rim transition scoring.
Finally got the spot up three going today, but like
they just needed somebody to that secondary score, and if
you looked at Tobias's playoff history, it was like, this
(16:04):
guy can't be that guy, which is why we discussed
at length different options for the Pistons to try to
find that type of player, and look at how much
harder they are to beat when he's got a guy
who's going bar for bar with kid. By the way,
in that second half of Game six during the comeback,
Caid was obviously amazing, but Tobias was right there with
(16:24):
him making plays. Tobias has been the facsimile of a
running mate for Cad, and if he can sustain that,
this guy's the limit for this team, because that's literally
the weakness. Caid was absolutely unbelievable again to score with
the volume and efficiency that he scored within this series,
(16:46):
with the types of defensive looks that he was seeing,
with the quality of athletes that were on him. Like,
I was already a big fan of kid, but in
many ways, this series was a coming out party for
him to be when you talk about the stakes in
the pressure, and like I already had seen some people
coming down hard on CAD when you look at the
way that this team was being discussed as an abject failure,
(17:08):
and by the way, I was one of those people
as they were down three to one. And we'll see
if those roster issues rise to the surface in later rounds.
I want to discuss that at length here because I
think it's going to matter less in some of these
later rounds. But just Caid against all odds, was just
absolutely amazing to end this series. And one of the
big things is like their defense was able to drag
(17:29):
things into the mud, and when things were into the mud,
Caid was able to find actions that worked consistently for
him to be able to generate a good shot for
himself or for his teammates.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Him having a reliable pull.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Up three point shot was super important in this series
because it was something that allowed him to score while
saving energy when he absolutely needed to get a bucket
for himself. He was able to go to guard guard
switches and to work against Orlando's smalls in the mid
range and get to a little fifteen foot pull up
that he could hit consistently with ball screens. Really, those
cleared actions in particular were the ones where he was
(18:02):
able to force the drop coverage big to make more
complex decisions whether it was pallor whether it was Wendell
Carter Junior. And he was able to set up a
lot of pockupas situations for advantages, even with like two
man game with Tobias, which I thought became super reliable
for them over the course.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Of the series.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So, like, I just thought, Kid had a masterful showing
against a team that was physically constructed to beat them.
And here's the thing, they were this close to losing,
and as I talked about at length in the show
two days ago, them surviving this means everything. Because you
lose Game six, you don't come back. The story of
(18:38):
the season is you're this dramatic disappointment who is a
victim of a one to eight upset. But if you
really dug into the basketball, it was clear what was happening.
There was a unique dynamic taking place, not just in
the half court, but in transition on the glass, where
Detroit's ability to bully teams was not. It was a
(19:00):
non factor against this particular Orlando Magic team, and it
came dis close to getting you beat, but it didn't
get you beat. And so as you move forward, as
we go to other rounds, that can now return into
the equation as something that works heavily in their favor.
We will go back to the Pistons in just a
minute to talk about the second round, but I want
(19:21):
to really quickly talk about the Orlando Magic. Would you
have potentially won the series if Franz Wagner stays healthy.
I think you probably do. I think Franz was the
steadying force for them in a lot of their tougher
circumstances throughout the series. If you look at Game one,
when Detroit was making their fourth quarter run, it was
Franz who closed the deal with this high level pick
(19:42):
and roll ball handling. When you look at Game three,
when Detroit was making their run, it was Franz and
his scoring that was able to stabilize things. Franz doesn't
have the ceiling that Paalo does, but he has a
much higher floor, and so when things really went south
for Orlando in this series, there was no Franz to
rescue Palo from his floor. And when you saw Palo's floor,
(20:03):
it's just it is lower than just about any star
in the league. Can't make jump shots, can't process, can't defend,
can't really do anything. And so you know that ended
up being something that when Franz was out of the equation,
really hurt Orlando. But you have to be realistic. We've
talked about this at every phase of the last couple
months in our prep for the postseason. The playoffs are
(20:26):
a war of attrition. They always have been, more so
than ever and they probably always will be. It's what
team gets the fewest calf strains, hamstring strains, ankle sprains,
whatever it might be. Those things do end up unfortunately
determining a lot of this stuff, and there is some
reality to the fact that Franz Wagner has just been
whether it's cursed or just bad luck or whatever it
(20:47):
might be, he's really struggled to stay on the floor
in these situations. And so like one of the things
I was I was texting with my buddy Sam Vassini
when we were watching the Cavs game, and one of
the things we were talking about with Orlando is like,
the specific thing that they so desperately need is like
a game managing ball handler, just like a grownup that
(21:11):
can handle the ball and be like the shit's hitting
the fan, You go there, you go there, We're running
this set. We're gonna get this shot for this guy,
because this is what we need in this spot to
settle things down. And the closest thing to that for
Orlando is Franz, and after Franz, they don't have anybody
like that. And I would argue even Franz isn't exactly
(21:33):
the best at it, he's just better at it than
the other magic players. And so one of the things
that I would look at, like, I think the Desmond
Main move was a real push forward in terms of
actually bringing in like a guard that can shoot like
Jalen Suggs. Love the dude, super fascinating player, does so
many good things. He just can't shoot. He just can't shoot,
(21:55):
and that limits his impact dramatically. Like his complete in
ability to knock down to catch and you jump shot
was one of the biggest reasons why the Orlando Magic
lost the series, and that has been a consistent trend
throughout his career. With Jalen Suggs. You catch him on
the right night, he's hitting everything. He looks like one
of the best players on the floor. But then you
zoom out and you look at the percentages and they're
always low thirties, right, you know, at best. And so
(22:19):
it's one of those things with with Desmond Bain where
he came in and addressed a very specific need, which
was the ability of a guy to knock down shots.
But what Desmond Bain is not is that type of
slow it down, really high level on ball, kind of
like grown up, so to speak. And so I think
that's the next step for Orlando. You have to make
(22:39):
an internal decision like do we think Franz is going
to be that guy or do we need to go
find that guy and we'll see again. Just like we
were talking about in the last segment for Toronto. You know,
Toronto's looking for a perimeter score. Orlando's looking for more
of like a game manager. So much depends on like
who becomes available when they get into this summer. Like
(23:00):
there's a version of the of this summer where you
know what, if Houston gets into business with Denver and
they do some sort of deal for like Jamal Murray
or something like that, then I'd be like Colin on
Fred Van Vliet, I'd be calling. I'd be trying to
see if you can't poach CJ. McCollums, some sort of
(23:22):
grown up they can handle the ball that can help
them get into their stuff. I think would be really
really important to help them stabilize a little bit more
with the super low lows that they've dealt with over
the course of the last few seasons. Again, for both
Toronto and Orlando, we'll spend some time digging into this
when we get to the off season. I'm not really
in that frame of mind yet. Well, well, we'll dive
(23:44):
deeper into their off season potential when we actually get
out of the playoffs. Last thing, with Orlando though, internal
development on jump shooting, Like I should say second to
last thing because I want to talk about Jamal Moseley
for a second. But in turn, the best pathway to
improve your team is internal development because trades are really
hard to make. Draft picks come with a certain amount
(24:06):
of variants. No matter how good your scouting department is,
it's just really hard to evaluate an eighteen year old
or nineteen year old or a twenty year old. Guys
need to get in the gym and they need to
become better jump shooters. That goes for Palo, that goes
for Franz, that goes for Wendell. Jamal Caine was a
standout in this playoff run. Huge step forward in the
rotation to find another guy like that that can guard
(24:28):
the other team's best player and make some plays off
the bounce. But he could spend some time in the
gym working on a shot. Jalen Suggs has to work
on his shot, Anthony Black has to work on his shot.
That every one of these dudes needs to spend the
reps in the offseason working on their jump shots so
they can help make this a little bit easier for them.
This summer, and then lastly Jamal Mosley. I've been critical
of him throughout this all, including during the season when
(24:49):
things were going well for Orlando, and like I had
an Orlando Magic fan in my mentions when they were
up three to one, that's like, still want Mosley fired,
And then my head, I'm like, yeah, yeah, just like
Jamal Moseley. The problem is this team desperately needs organization
on offense and they just could not be further from that.
(25:11):
It's way too much just Polo standing at the top
of the key calling for guard guard screens, and he's
never been a good enough passer to hit the hedge,
the slip out of the hedge. So like, when I
think about with Orlando is like, what if you got
a guy who really got them into organized offense to
where every single possession Palo is essentially starting from a
(25:34):
position of advantage and in a situation where instead of
just one guard coming to screen for him, everything is
part of a three man action and there's more opportunity
for mistake, more opportunity to get him downhill without having
to like, you know, overpower a smaller player. And I
just think that offensive organization piece has been dreadfully lacking
(25:55):
for Orlando for years now, and it's one of the
easiest things to do to help make life a little
bit easier for this team. But as we've talked about
so many times, that's only part of it. You need
the guys on the floor to be able to process
on the fly, and that's a weakness with this team.
And so again I will dig into it more this
summer and try to come up with a list of
guys and we'll see who becomes available when we get
(26:16):
to the offseason.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
But the Magic need a.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Grown up ball handler that can put Palo into more
of a play finishing role rather than the guy who's
determining every possession thirty five feet from the basket with
a live dribble. Moving on to the next round. I
like this matchup for the Pistons in every single way,
except for Jalen Duran's ability to guard ball screens. What
(26:41):
made Cleveland struggle physical ball pressure, playing in the gaps,
incredible defensive rotations, the difficulty finding favorable matchups to attack
on the floor, just the overwhelming physical that Toronto brought
to bear even on offense. Just like, look at how
(27:04):
much of a pain in the ass Scottie Barnes was
for them to guard. Look at how much of a
pain in the ass Colin Murray Boyles was for them
on the offensive glass and finishing around the basket. Detroit
similar to what we were talking about with the OKC
Houston dynamic and how different OKAC is than Houston for
the Lakers, Detroit is quite simply just a way better version.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Of Toronto.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Better on ball defenders, more depth of on ball defenders,
more rim protection. Although the Durn thing gets a little complicated,
we'll talk about that in a minute. Cade's just a better,
more polished version of Scotty Barnes right now, not defensively
but offensively. He's a power ball handler that can score
from all three levels at a super high level and
(27:50):
can play make at a really high level. You don't
really have the big wing that can match up with Cad.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's an issue.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Jared Allen and Evan Mobley are both a little bit
thin and upright and can get shoved around by Isaiah
Stewart and can get shoved around by Jalen Durtan. And look,
I know Cleveland had some success versus Detroit in the
regular season, and I'm not making my pick tonight. I'm
gonna dig into the film and we'll have an answer
for you guys tomorrow morning on that front. But my
initial gut feeling is Detroit can ratchet it up defensively
(28:23):
in a way that Minnesota can, that Oklahoma City can,
And you would be fooling yourself if you think it's
gonna look like a regular season game when you're playing
against the Detroit Pistons in the next round. Orlando was
physically built to hold up under that onslaught. Cleveland is
giving up muscle mass in large quantities at every single
(28:49):
position in this matchup. I worry about Donovan Mitchell and
James Harden being able to just get the ball up
the floor and get into their stuff. I wororry about
Mobley and Allen finishing in traffic. I worry about guys
knocking down shots. They struggled to knock down shots against
Toronto's closeouts. Detroit's closeouts are even tougher. The one thing
(29:13):
that I think that complicates matters for me, and why
I really want to watch the film before I watch
the regular season games again, before I dig into coming
up with the final answer, is Jalen Duran has been
truly terrible on defense for the most part in each
of his two playoff series that he's played in at
this point, and especially a bad against the Knicks team
(29:36):
that could really space him out, that had high quality
ball handling and roll and basket rollers. Right, I worry
about if James Harden and Donovan Mitchell can get the
ball to the floor and can get into ball screens,
that Duran's gonna have a nightmare time trying to guard
these guys. That is one thing that I think favors Cleveland.
(29:56):
But my initial gut feeling is to pick the Troit
and to pick them relatively quick in like six games.
That's my initial gut feeling, Like I have a feeling
that they would go up two to zero in the series,
shake Cleveland's confidence, and Cleveland would have a hard time
tying that series at home and sending it back to Detroit.
(30:16):
This is where I wanted, like all these Detroit fans
that were thinking I didn't like the team, It's not
about that. It was all about the matchups. Orlando's a
very unique team. Cleveland is a very different team, and
I worry about Cleveland handling a bloodbath fistfight, and Toronto
did a lot of damage to them with lesser versions
of this type of personnel. The only difference is they
(30:38):
played a lot more small ball and they had a
little bit more switchability to them than this Detroit team has.
But that's just the one difference I think Detroit. And
by the way, when it comes to Duran, what would
I do? Sit him back in a deep drop coverage
and have a sar Thompson hounded the living shit out
of Donovan and have you know, uh Javonte Green hound
(31:01):
the living shit out of the ball, and like really
just get into ball pressure and and force the Calves
to play a very uncomfortable brand of basketball with Duran
sitting back at the basket rather than showing out at
the perimeter.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
So again, I'm watching a.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Bunch of film tomorrow morning and I'll have a series
preview for you guys, and I'll have a pick. But
my initial gut impression is, like, I think Detroit has
a lot of physical advantages in this series that they
did not have in the last round. And we have
just seen so many examples between Minnesota and Oklahoma City
and even Indiana to a lesser extent, more speed ball
pressure wise, but like what Toronto just did, like what
(31:39):
Houston almost did to a Lakers team. Like being big, strong,
fast and playing really hard on defense is a great
way to win playoff games in the modern NBA, and
Detroit is like one of the very best at it.
And the reason why they were able to come back
against Orlando is they held them to like nineteen points
and a half.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And like that.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's the dynamic that would scare me if I was
a Cavs fan. All right, let's bring Jackson up here.
Let's get into some questions.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Let's do it first.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
One is a super chat from Brets, not a question
as much as his sort of take on the Calves
Pistons series. He said, I think the Calves will have
some success in the first half of the series offensively,
but I think by games five through seven, the Pistons
physicality will wear Mitchell and Hardened down, need out and
Mobile to play excellent to.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Have a shot.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, that's the Mobile and Allen are really the key
because there's several specific areas where they have to hold up.
They gotta said good screens in terms of like freeing
up Mitchell and Mitchell and hardened like getting downhill.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Into balls, into ball screen attacks.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Because like when we talk about Duran, the specific dynamic
I fear is him guarding in pick and roll when
he has to defend two players, whether that's showing at
the level, whether that's Uh in a drop coverage, navigating
the like roller and the driver coming right at him.
And the only way to really engage Duran in those
(33:09):
actions is to get a good screen so that Durren
has to show, so that Durren has to come higher.
And what that that puts a level of physicality on
Mobiley and Allen in terms of their ability to set
screens and navigate that dynamic. And then the second piece
of it is this is a Pistons team that can
do a lot of damage on the offensive glass. Between
(33:31):
a sar Thompson crashing like crazy, between Duran crashing like
crazy throwing bodies around. Isaiah Stewart does the same thing.
So like I would call it like a fail point,
like if Mitchell, if a Mobley and Allen can't hold
up physically under the Detroit onslaught, I think they're doomed.
And so I agree with you that I think that
that's a key kind of pivot point of the series.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
One more super track question we got from Chase how
much pressure is on Kde to be the best player
in the series.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
How do you weigh Detroit's.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Physical advantages against Cleveland's skill advantages and better offensive spacing.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
As we've seen throughout the series. I'm not actually pull
up the numbers now because I'm curious. Cleveland didn't shoot
well really in that first round series, And a big
part of that is, like shooting is all fun and
games in the regular season when things are loose and free,
and then it just gets a lot tougher when you
land into some of these like like super intense defenses
that are throwing crazy closeouts, and so I just I'm
(34:32):
pulling up.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
The numbers right now.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Like Cleveland shot in that first round series against Toronto,
they shot thirty four point five percent from three thirty
two percent on catch and shoots thirty two percent on
catch and shoot threes. That's like, that's really not going
(34:55):
to cut it against Detroit, And like that's what would
scare me, is like that's the same real kind of
dynamic that you're going to see now as far as
Caid goes, I'm really not worried about him, and there's
a couple of specific reasons why.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
One, the pressure dynamic gets a little more.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Complicated when there's multiple ball handlers and you're like able
to defer a little bit. And you saw that a
little bit with Mitchell and Harden in this series, where
Mitchell would have stretches where he's like kind of leaning
a lot on Hardened because Mitchell's just really struggling and
Kate really has no choice but to figure it out.
And one of the things that I thought was fascinating
(35:36):
in that first round series was like Kate had really
bad stretches, but he just kept going and he just
kept attacking because again, he had no choice but to
continue to be aggressive because he was the only guy.
So like to me, like Caid's gonna have easier perimeter
defenders to go against and plenty of time over the
course of the series, especially with home court advantage, to
(35:56):
kind of figure out where he wants to attack. Like
I I think Kate's easily the best player in this series,
and I think he's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
I agree, And what you just said reminds me takes
me back to this is bring little PTSD for me
but tyres Maxi's press conference last night after the game
when he said that once js I feel like I
got a little bit misconstrued by some people as taking
a shot, and I don't think he's taken a shot
at all, he said, Once JT was out, we thought
this series would be even harder because the Celtics would
play way more free. Like you saw Derek White took
(36:24):
sixteen threes. He was just letting shit go. He had
no worries in the world. And it's the exact and
reminded me exactly what you were just saying about Kate,
where he has no fucking choice. He has just got
to go and go and go, and a bad streat
does not mean shit. He just got to keep fucking going.
And I think he's definitely the best player in the series.
And I think that's probably why I personally am leading
to Troy.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, like, if he's one for eleven in the first
half and they're down by thirteen points, he's got to
come out and take fifteen shots in the second half,
just lily, he has no choice, So like, yeah, like
I I even think for Tobias, although Tobias is gonna
run into a lot of Evan Mobley, I'm sure in
this series, and that'll be an interesting kind of wrinkle.
But uh, but Kate's gonna have some real size advantages,
(37:10):
like whether it's like kind of upright skinny guys like
Dean Wade where I think Kid's gonna like really be
able to get angles on him, or a lot of
dudes that are in that like Sam Meryl, Max Strus,
Jalen Tyson range where he's like two three inches taller
than all of them, and whereas like when he would
struggle in the Orlando series, it was like Franz Wagner
on the ball, like doing really really good work, you know,
(37:30):
Like it's just it's a physical mismatch in so many
different position groups.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
For Cleveland in this series.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
Yeah, we got a question about how do you think
the teams are gonna match up and who's gonna guard you?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I also have like sort of a more specific question,
which is.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Cleveland and James Hard and Donovan Mitchell are just dramatically
better at attacking mismatches than anyone Orlando had, Right, So
that's true. Because of that is what's the Duncan Robinson situation?
Like how playable is Duncan Robinson because he feels so
crucial to.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
That offensively right now, And I thought he's been playing.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
You played really well in the first round overall, but
you don't want that, dude, Garden James Harden.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, you know, I thought a lot about that too,
as soon as I started to talk about the matchups,
and it's like, okay, who's the star Thompson guarding? And
I think where it gets tricky is like I would
play Do you guys remember some of you guys might
remember this when we talked about the game plan for
UH Phoenix against Minnesota in the first round like three
(38:30):
years ago, But they had this really interesting game plan
for the Mike Conley Anthony Edwards dynamic, where with AUNT
they were playing at the level because they wanted to
turn it into a passer, but then with Mike they
were playing deep drop because they wanted to turn Mike
into a score. And it didn't matter because Minnesota just
(38:50):
physically mauled Phoenix and played in transition and Aunt dunked
all over Bradley Beale harder than anybody's ever dunked on anybody,
and that was the end of it. But I kind
of imagine a similar kind of game plan where I
think I would deploy a star on James and not
switch anything with him and just be like, we're running
(39:14):
deep drop with James, and I'll be like, let's see
how well you score against our drop coverage with the
sar Thompson all over you?
Speaker 3 (39:22):
All right, how many floaters are gonna head?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:25):
And then with Donovan, I'd throw the kitchen sink at
him and I'd be like, Okay, if it ends up
being Tobias as the initial arcade, let's say it's Kate, Like,
I'd even just go to Kate and I'd be like,
you guard don and then just any screen, I'm just
that guy's trapping or that guy's coming up to the level.
(39:45):
And I'm basically going to force Donovan to be a
passer all series long and count of my ability to rotate.
And then I'm gonna have James Harden have to deal
with the sar Thompson on the ball all series long,
and I think that's the way that I would do it.
I do want to dive into the film though, again,
because like there's some wrinkles there that could get tricky. So,
for instance, like Asar Thompson was really really good off
(40:07):
ball in the first round as like a rim protector,
and if you deploy him on James, that kind of
mitigates that element of his defense. But I think there
are other guys that could fill into that role. And
to your point, I think, like I wouldn't be surprised
if over the course of the series it went from
from Duncan to more of like a Karros Lavert in
Laverts guarding Donovan in a similar kind of like we're
(40:31):
hedging or showing hard on screens to try to get
the ball out of Donovan's hands, but we're like faster,
and like I Duncan's spacing was a lot more important.
Same goes for Danis. The spacing is more important when
you can't bully people. But I really think Detroit's gonna
be able to manufacture points even in a packed paint
in this series just by going through people's chests, and
(40:54):
so I think they're gonna need Duncan a little less
in this series than they did in previous series.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Next question, we're gonna move on from this series.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
We got a fun question. Do you think twenty eighteen
Lebron James on this current Lakers team would could beat
the Thunder or is the gap just too big even
for that one.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's too big, James, It's too big.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
I like, twenty eighteen Lebron is the best basketball player
that I've ever laid eyes on, but like we are
talking about a dramatic talent mismatch down the line, and like,
I don't think Shae is as good as twenty eighteen Lebron,
but he's in the stratosphere. Like, it's not like the
twenty eighteen Lebron over Shae is such a dramatic advantage
(41:39):
that it's.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Impossible to overcome.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
And so like, as much as I'd love to channel
the inner Bron stand there, I just don't think that
that that would cut it.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
That's funny. Next question, which series?
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Well, I guess we probably have an answered to the
first part of this question, But which series do you
expect to be the shortest next round? Which series do
you expect to be the longest the next round?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I think Minnesota San Antonio is gonna go long. I
think Philly, New York's gonna go along. I think that
Lakers Rockets or Lakers Thunder will be fast, and I
think that I think that Pistons Calves might be the
second fastest. Like if you told me the Pistons beat
the Cabs in five games, I would not be surprised. Hmm, okay,
(42:24):
I'll probably if I pick them, I'm probably gonna pick
them in six. But like if you told me they
won games one, two, four, and five, I would not
be surprised.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Last question for the night, a little bit of a
step back from the playoffs, because there's been a lot
of conversation about Steve Kerr recently in the Warriors recently.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
What do you think the Warriors offseason should look like?
Should it? Do you want them to bring to or not?
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Do you want them to do you think they should
bring back Kerr and extended Raymond and sort of try
to just retool around this sort of core or sort
of move in a.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Big, big new direction.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
Keeps Steph there obviously, but like new coach sort of
new direction.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
So I don't think there's any I mean, and you
can tell me if you dogree, but I don't think
they have a young player that's a foundational young player,
like Pods is a good player, but he's not a
foundational young player.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
So the truth of the.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Matter is is like when Steph is gone, You're going
to be really bad, like really extraordinarily bad.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
So there is no like.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
So like, let's say, for instance, you kept Kaminga, you
could talk me into like a, hey, let's sit down
with Steve and be like, hey, dude, you get to
keep coaching the team. But Kminga has a mandatory minimum
of you know, thirty two minutes a game and all
that shit, right, and force him to try to develop
something there. But as you and I both believe, like
I know, we had a bunch of COMINGA stands on
our case after those two good playoff games, but then
(43:41):
he was really bad in the next two and frankly
or next three, I should say, and frankly like I
didn't think Kminga was a foundational level a level player either, right,
So would that be in the case I do think
that you need a foundational player. Therefore you can't really
start trading first round picks. But I would go talent
(44:03):
hunting on the more aggressive side with older stars, so like,
and I think I'd be willing to spend like one first.
So like, for instance, if you could if you could
go get like kd, if you could go get Kawhi
if you could somehow convince Lebron to sign on a discount,
Like those are the kinds of guys where like I'd
(44:24):
go star hunting with them. But I wouldn't move multiple
picks for Giannis. I wouldn't sacrifice like a first round
pick for a role player. I would go star hunting
with like maybe one pick.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I do.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Did you see the report that seems most likely coming back, Like,
I think the reporting.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Has been so all over the place with that, but yeah,
I think he'll be.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Back, yeah yeah, And and frankly with Steve Kerr, like
it may I think it would be weird to watch
the Steph Curry team coach without Steve Kerr and like
so like I think it's okay to sit down and
be like, all right, dude, this we run no ball
screens and all we do is run pinch post and
and uh flex cuts and you know, like split cuts
(45:11):
and all of this Chicago action and everything's off ball
action thing that just can lead to a lot of
turnovers and can struggle to allow the modern young on
ballplayer to get comfortable kind of thing. I think there's
some truth to the fact that Steve needs to be
more amenable to kind of running more spread pick and roll,
(45:31):
running more stack, like this is a team that should
be running a lot of stack with Steph Curry on
the ball or Steph Curry setting the back screen, like
this is a team that probably needs to evolve a
little bit offensively. But I think you can get Steve
on board with that. And so, like I was secretly
this whole time hoping Steve would come back, I agree.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
And on the I think I'm in a similar place
with the first round of picks, Like I think if
Steve Curry is coming back, I just by the way
that we understand the organization, I assume that me and
Steph Curry is like, I want Steve Kerr back.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Let's we need to bring back Steve curR, right. So
if that's happening, then you.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Know that Steph Curry is bought in for one, two,
three years, however many years that is. Then I would
go to Steph Curry and be like, how long do
you want to play for this organization? Because as long
as you're playing for this organization, where I'm comfortable trading
first round picks during that timeline would be my approach.
If we have Steph Curry playing and he looks very good.
I would I say, you think you're gonna be here
(46:24):
through twenty seven and twenty eight, then we are. Then
I'm comfortable trading twenty seven and twenty eight first round picks.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
And I'm not Steph. Sorry, bro, but I'm not trading
picks beyond when you're going to be here.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
Yeah. I think that seems like a pretty reasonable compromise
to be, like, let's try to we don't have shit
beyond Steph Curry after this is I like pods, they're gonna.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
Be bad when Steph Curry retires.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
So I would try to bring back the guys that
you know can play well together, tweaks and stuff at
the margins, try to upgrade with a first round pick
or two, depending on how far down the road you
feel comfortable going. I think I would be comfortable trading
first round picks for seasons that Steph Curry is on
the roster personally.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, I I think that that's a good way to
put it. Like that way, if they do decide to
quote unquote tank under whatever the new version of tanking,
looks like they own their draft picks after the fact.
But you have some semblance of a competitive roster in
the short term. I think I think that makes sense
to me, and like, actually, let me let me put
it to you this way, if Kevin Durant did become
(47:23):
available this summer, would you consider going after him?
Speaker 3 (47:25):
For sure?
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Absolutely, It'd be hard to find a player that would
make sense for Houston under the circumstances. Yeah, But like,
I think Houston's probably gonna go the other way and
trade Shangun for Yannis.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
That's what I like.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
I just have this feeling like that that's what they're
gonna do. But but yeah, like there's I I think
if they ended up with one of the Kawhi lebron
kd trio, that would that would make for a really
fun next season. All Right, guys, that's all we have
for tonight. As always, we sincerely appreciate you for supporting
us and supporting the show. We have a couple of
(48:02):
episodes coming out tomorrow. I'm gonna do a new contender
rankings that kind of reflects like, hey, two of our
top four contenders are eliminated, so we kind of need
to talk about what that means and how all these
other teams stack up.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
So I'm gonna do a.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Contender rankings tomorrow morning, and then I'm gonna do a
series preview on Cavs Pistons, So those two videos will
both come out at some point during the day. I
already recorded Lakers Thunder that's coming out I think at
six am Pacific time tomorrow, so that'll be out relatively
early tomorrow, and I think that's it for series previews.
We did Nick's six ers earlier today. If you haven't
(48:35):
seen that, This a little bit further back on the feed,
and then we're right back at it. Tonight was our
what fifteenth consecutive of night and so tomorrow will be
number sixteen. We'll be right back at it with a
very bizarre overlap schedule tonight or tomorrow night and Tuesday.
For whatever reason, the games kind of overlap. Son'll bear
with me in terms of like actually being able to
cover both games in full detail. That's going to be
(48:55):
something that gets a little tricky. But we will be
live after the final buzzer of Wolves Spurs.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Tomorrow night on YouTube. I'll see you guys then,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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