Hoops Tonight - Top 25 NBA Players: Anthony Edwards SKY-HIGH CEILING, SGA & Thunder have ARRIVED - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

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(02:02):
All right, welcome to hoops tonight here at the Volume Ball.
You guys had an incredible weekend. We are getting into
our top five, the final tier of our player rankings
today with number five and number four, and then everyone's
really pissed off about how who I have at number five,
So we're gonna be doing some mail bag questions centered
around that and a little bit of debate in the
tail end of the show. You guys know the Joe
before we get started. Subscribe to Hoops Tonight YouTube channels.

(02:24):
You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me
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that front. And the last not out least, keep dropping
mail bag questions in the comments. If you disagree with
these rankings in any way, shape or form, leave your
case for it in the comments and we'll debate it

(02:46):
at the tail end of these shows. All right, let's
talk some basketball. So as we head into the final
tier of this list, I have this tier list. It's
a little complicated because I have this tier titled parent
MVP Candidates. I believe these five players will have at
least two Top five MVP finishes in the next three seasons,

(03:09):
which is something I don't think the rest of this
list is gonna do. Everybody I have from six to eleven,
I don't think you're gonna see multiple Top five MVP
finishes in the next three seasons from that group of guys,
But at the same time, I do see a drop
off from number four to number five. So the guy
I've had number five, which is Anthony Edwards, is kind

(03:31):
of like a tweener for me because one of the
many reasons we're going to get into it, but one
of the reasons why I had anticize I had is
because I do believe he's going to be a perennial
MVP candidate, and the guys believe below him, I don't
believe will be. But at the same time, I do
think the guy that I have at number four, there's
a little bit of a gap between him and Aunt
at this point. So like, if you want to call
it your top tier, super duperstar tier of players, that's

(03:55):
going to be one through four, but my perennial MVP
candidate tier is going to be one through five, which
we're starting today with number five. We had a couple
of people that were confused by the criteria, which I
went over extensively in our first video, the one that
had Kyrie Irving in it. It was number twenty five and
number twenty four if you scroll back on the feed,
I did like a ten to fifteen minute kind of

(04:15):
explanation of how we do this. The way I see it,
there are three different ways to rank players. You can
rank players like just who's the best basketball player today?
Like we got to play a basketball game right now,
who are the best basketball players in the world. Everyone's healthy,
everyone's at the top of their game, just who's the best.
That's one way to look at it, right, But it's
kind of an unrealistic way to look at it because

(04:37):
you never get to wear a win Alari O'Brien by
just playing a basketball game tomorrow. You win Alario O'Brien
by going from October all the way to June. Right.
The second way to look at it is bragging rights.
This is what I did the last couple of years
with my list. It was more of like a just
a representation of who had the best season. Like it

(04:58):
was more of like a wards kind of thing, like,
let's give recognition to who played the best basketball in
the last twelve months. Right, I've done this list. This
is my third time doing this list since I got
with the volume. The first two times we did it,
that was kind of what it was. More like. It
was more of like a bragging rights type of list, right,
But that has flaws, right, because as soon as you

(05:19):
pass out the Larry O'Brien Trophy in mid June, it's like,
now we're starting over again. Now let's look forward. And
so I have tweaked it to this third kind of format,
which is what we're using this year, which is like,
if we were just doing a draft of all the
players in the NBA for a season that starts October
first for training camp and goes all the way through

(05:40):
mid June for the NBA Finals, who is the best
player that brings me the most overall winning impact regular
season kind of like durability and greatness combined with the
playoff translatability, like how well their game translates to the playoffs.
But also I have to build a team around them

(06:00):
from scratch in this scenario, and so versatility plays a
role at that point, and so all of those things
are kind of wrapped up in like this theoretical basically
like a theoretical fantasy draft, right for a season that
involves everything from October to June. That's the way I'm
looking at this particular list. So like, there are a

(06:20):
lot of people that it's like no way, Anthony Edwards
is top five, and it's like, okay, well, let's talk.
Is he top five in bragging rights?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
He had a pretty impressive season last year, but I'd
have to look at that again. Is he top five
in a vacuum for like a game that starts tomorrow, Like, no,
I'm taking other players over him. I've seen people be like,
there's no way Aunt should be over Steph, and it's like, yeah, Like,
if I have an NBA Finals game that I got
to play tomorrow, I think I'd rather have Steph. You know,
I'd rather have Lebron. There's a lot of guys that

(06:49):
I would rather have right now, like even a guy
like Jason Tatum, Like for a game that's tomorrow, I
might just barely rather have Tatum. But that's not the
purpose of this list. The purpose of this list is
October to June, like kind of a fantasy draft kind
of concept. I thought that was just kind of the
way to best capture everything that you need from a
player for an actual NBA season, because at the end

(07:11):
of the day, that's what this is. This is an
actual NBA season that's about to start. They're gonna hand
out an actual Larry Larry O'Brien Trophy, And the way
they're gonna hand it out is they're gonna give it
to the team that wins four playoff series that are
based off seating based on how they perform over an
eighty two game sample. That's how you get the Larry
O'Brien Trophy. And so that's the way I want to
use a kind of like our format in terms of

(07:34):
player rankings as we move forward, at least for this year.
Who knows, maybe I'll have some massive change of heart
by next year, but that's what we're looking at. So
without any further ado. Number five Anthony Edwards last year
seventy nine games play. This is back back seasons, playing
seventy nine games, twenty five point six points per game.
One of the things you'll notice too is ants leap
kind of took place in the postseason run. So these

(07:56):
regular season numbers are still really good, but relatively Podesta
and compared to the way he performed in the postseason
and the way that his peers performed in the postseason.
But twenty six points per game, five point four rebounds
per game, five point one assists per game, He's one
of only seven players in the entire NBA last year
to average at least twenty five to five and five
in at least seventy games played, So in terms of

(08:17):
just production over a long NBA season, he's in some
rare company there, one point eight stocks per game. He
finished seventh in MVP voting at age twenty two. The
next guy I have on this list as a young
guard Shay gild Alexander, and he didn't get his first
MVP vote until he was twenty four, So that goes
to show you, just like in terms of like how
ahead of schedule Ant is now. Mind you, he's not

(08:39):
a better team at age twenty two than Shay was,
but he's had a lot of success earlier than most
of his peers do. Right, shooting splits forty six percent
from the field, thirty six percent from three to eighty
four percent from the line. That comes out to fifty
two percent in effective field goal percentage, but fifty eight
percent in true shooting, which is totally respectable. He's increased
his scoring volume and efficiency every season of his career

(09:02):
to this point. He also just increased his assist total
again every year of his career up to five point
one as a career high, while dropping his turnovers year
over year. He had a little stat to kind of
demonstrate that he had twelve games with at least eight
assists this year. That's double what he had in the
previous season. He had only six shooting numbers per sentergy

(09:24):
just zero point nine to four points per jump shot.
Not a great jump shooting season, but again, it really
seemed to take off in that postseason run. We'll get
a little bit deeper into that here in a few minutes,
and it was kind of he kind of had a
similar type of season to Jason Tatum. He was really
good off the catch one point one six points per
jump shot when he was unguarded, one point five to

(09:44):
eight points per catch and two jump shot. That's fifty
three percent field goal percentage, seventy nine percent weighted for threes,
which is insane, very very good off ball, catch and
shoot type of player, but similar to Jayson Tatum, had
a rough off the dribble regular season, just zero point
eight eight points per shot off the dribble, just thirty
five percent overall, just forty four percent weighted for threes.

(10:05):
He also takes a lot of like jab step face
up jump shots. He took one hundred and five of
them this year and got zero point nine to five
points per shot. I'm not even gonna get into the
playoff numbers until we kind of look at that in
totality here in a few minutes, shot forty four percent
on floaters, about one and a half attempts per game,
sixty three percent of the rim, which is awesome for
a guard in really good volume. He made three point

(10:26):
seven shots in the restricted area per game. That was
the most in the league among guards or any players
for that matter that are six five or smaller. And
one of the things you got to remember there is
that's with Rudy Gobert clogging everything up in the paint,
and that's you know, that became a major issue in
the Dallas series, which we're going to talk about in
a little bit. But like for him to be basically
the highest volume small guard or smaller NBA player in

(10:48):
the anything below six five, six five or shorter, to
be in the paint as much as he was given
his circumstances, Like to have a guy that really can't
catch and finish around the rim to kind of clog
things up, allowing opposing teams to to really jank things
up for their offense. Like I thought, that was really impressive.
Play type data per Synergy nine hundred and ninety pick
and roll. So he just barely missed our high volume

(11:09):
list by ten reps. He would have ranked eighth on
that list had he had those additional ten reps. One
point zero six points per possession including passes. That's in
the eightieth percentile. He ran four hundred and sixty nine
ISOs for four hundred and sixty nine points. You guys
can do the math on what that efficiency is. Ranked
sixteenth out of twenty four players on our High volume list.
Really good post up season though, one hundred and two

(11:31):
post ups. One point one seven points per possession. That's
in the eighty third percentile. When he likes his matchup,
he'll just dribble the ball up the side of the floor,
doesn't really matter, right side or left side. He definitely
likes that lefts that right side of the floor. She
can drible in his left hand for that right shoulder fade.
That's like his preferred side. But he'll bring the ball
off the floor and if he likes his matchup, he'll
just wave everybody through and like like it'll it's so funny.

(11:54):
You'll see go bare like come over sometimes, so like
try to set a screen for him and it's like, dude,
I'm posting up, like get the hell out of here,
and he'll take that kind of cleared side and he'll
just got to sit in that high hesitation. If he
likes his separation going over his right shoulder, he loves
to go to that right shoulder fade, but he can
also fade over his left shoulder. He also see him
to make aggressive moves with his left shoulder to go
into more like hooks and floaters kinds of things. He'll

(12:15):
draw some valves that way as well. But really really
impressive post up season for a guard. That turned into
a reliable direction for him to go in the postseason
as well. Already at age twenty two, one of the
most efficient high volume ball handlers in the league. Again
fifteen hundred and sixty one reps for one six hundred

(12:35):
and thirty five points in total including passes. That's all
pick and rolls, ISOs and post ups, one point zero
five points per possession on massive volume for a twenty
two year old on a team that kind of can
have some issues on the offensive end because of all
of their defensive minded personnel. Like there's a lot of
people comparing Tatum and Ant and we're gonna get a

(12:56):
lot into that when we get into the mailbag, and
it's like it's like it it's a little bit different
playing with Drew Holliday, Derek White and Jalen Brown and
Chris ops Porzingis and Al Horford, all guys that can
play both ends of the floor at a high level
than it is playing with Jade McDaniels who's a defensive specialist,
Rudy Gobert who's a defensive specialist, Nikaile Alexander Walker who's
a defensive specialist, Mike Conley who's an offensive specialist, and

(13:18):
Karl Anthony Towns who's an offensive specialist. Like, it's a
different it's a completely fundamentally different challenge to operate in
that setting. And again with all those circumstances, with all
those defensive minded personnel that most good teams are just
comfortable conceding catches to both on the role for Rudy
or on the perimeter for Jaden, Like to get in

(13:39):
massive volume one point zero five points per possession. That's
really impressive shot creation, and all of those numbers pale
in comparison to the player that Anthony Edwards became when
he got to the postseason. And to be clear, he
has consistently become this guy in the postseason. And finished
his last Western Conference Finals game at just twenty two
years old. At that point he had played in twenty

(14:01):
six career playoff games, and in twenty six career playoff games,
he's averaging twenty eight points, six rebounds, and six assists
on sixty percent of shooting. Twenty two years old, twenty
six games under his belt at those averages, that's insane,
And the most impressive part is he has consistently shot
his jump shot, especially off the dribble, really well in

(14:23):
the postseason. And that's really the fundamental kind of like
genesis of what makes Aunt such an exciting player to
build around. In terms of guards, I think you gotta
go all the way back at like man, I don't.
I can't. Like even with Dwayne Wade, he just wasn't
the shooter that ant that ant is, But like true
downhill force combined with elite pull up shooting as a

(14:45):
counter that's just a really rare duo and you don't
see it a lot in the NBA at all. It's
it's why I really like players like Jayden or excuse me,
like Jalen Williams for instance with Oklahoma City, when I
see players that have like legitimate like guys are on
the heels because they're worried about getting beat off the dribble,
but at the same time, like he can just settle
into that high hesitation pull up jump shot or a

(15:06):
quick step back or quick dribble combination and hit it
at a really high rate. Like that's super exciting and
that's ant superpower. He's like the best at getting to
the rim among players below sixty six, and he is
an elite pull up shooter in the playoff setting. And again,
like his jump shot is con it's continued to be
deadly in a pretty large sample at this point. Like,

(15:29):
first of all, he did it in the postseason before.
He was one point one to five points per jump
shot in twenty twenty two, one point zero two points
per jump shot in twenty twenty three, including one point
zero nine on pull ups, which is really good. This
Western Conference Finals run one point one zero points per
jump shot on volume, he took one hundred and eighty
four jump shots in total, took one hundred and fifty

(15:50):
one pull up jump shots, shot forty three percent on them,
and shot so many threes that it amounted to one
point zero eight points per pull up jump shot. That's
like insane good. He also took fourteen face up jumpers,
hit forty three percent of those, but because most of
them were threes, it amounted to one point twenty nine
points per shot attempt. Like he just deadly. And then

(16:12):
he continued it into the Olympics. He took sixty nine
jump shots with Team USA through the five exhibitions and
Olympics and Olympics play made thirty of them. That's one
point one four points per jump shot, one point one
three points per pull up jump shot. That's insane. Five
for nine on face up jump shots, four of which
were threes, that amounts to one point five six points

(16:34):
per shot. This is an extended run of deadly jump
shooting from a player who's also arguably the best athlete
in the league. And that was the real thing that
stood out to me in uh in that playoff run
was he proved to be basically unguardable one on one.
Like he got one hundred and seventy nine post ups

(16:55):
in ISOs including passes in the Western Conference Finals round
that's strictly in the playoffs, and got one point zero
nine points per possession including passes. That's insane, And like,
I want to get a little bit further into that
concept because he ended up running into some issues against Dallas,
and we're gonna talk about that extensively here in a minute,
but I want to get before we get to the
that part, I want to talk about the defensive end.

(17:15):
The defensive end is definitely a mixed back, clearly a
result of energy usage in my opinion, Like he's a
a plus ISO defender when you are like matched up
with Ant one on one, that's just a problem. He's
arguably the quickest lateral player, lateral movement guy in the league.
Like he's he's gonna beat you to a spot. You're

(17:37):
not gonna dribble around him. And he's built like a
fire hydrant, so you're not going through him. He's got
the athleticism to contest. So like you just you just
don't even try to score on Ant and ISO unless
you're like Yokic, right, like unless you're just way, way
way bigger than him, right, because it's you're probably just
gonna get ripped and he's gonna go down the other
end and get a dunk. But he's mostly a bad

(17:58):
screen navigator, to be clear. He can do it, and
he can do it really well, but the good possessions
are just too few and far and few and far between. Sorr,
I'm butchering the expression there. He's a big target, Like,
he's a big body, so he's a big target for
guys to actually set screens on it. When he gets picked,
he basically just dies on it. But to be clear,

(18:19):
it is mostly an energy and effort thing. And the
reason why we know that is you go go guys.
I rewatched it and did a whole film session on
it when we were in the postseason run, so you
can actually find it if you go back into our feed.
But during the Minnesota comeback in Game seven against Denver,
Jamal Murray didn't score a single point and Anthony Edwards
literally had him in jail, and like I think, I think,

(18:41):
I think Ant ended up talking shit after the game
saying he had him in handcuffs and he's right, like
Jamal like straight up didn't score a single point. So like,
and Ant's just on him, ball pressure, chasing him over
the top of screens, getting deflections, like Ant was all
over him, so we know it's there, like we know
it's in there. But then he turned around in the
series and did a really bad job agains Kyrie irving

(19:02):
and many times looked lazy and was dying on screens.
And I actually set called that out before the series.
I was like, yeah, like, okay, you want Kyrie, that's great,
but like you know, Kyrie's really damn good, just like
Jamal Murray. And if you don't bring Game seven intensity
from the start like Kyrie, o'cok your ass. And guess
what Kyrie cooked him in Game one right, So like that,
like my guess is just like every other star of

(19:24):
his ILK, which is like the supreme athlete archetype. I
think Aunt eventually will become a great defender. I think
the just his competitiveness, his hatred of losing that scar
tissue that I always talked about, that like builds up
on your psyche as a result of tough losses. I
think Ant will become an elite defender, but it's worth
mentioning at this point that he's kind of a mixed bag,

(19:45):
Like it's a lot of good and it's a lot
of bad eleidio defender, bad screen navigator and consistent effort
that kind of stuff. I think we're a little ways
away from aunt being I think he's going to continue
to take leaps every year, but we're still a ways
from from where he needs to be on the defensive
end of the four. Talking about the Dallas series, right, So,
Ann had a pretty damn impressive playoff run offensively outside

(20:06):
of a couple of stretches, and it really started to
come to the surface at the tail end of the
Denver series, and then Dallas kind of piggybacked off that
game plan and kind of took it to a greater
extent in the in that Western Conference Final series. And
the main thing there was just bringing the bigs up
to the level of the screen and really getting aggressive

(20:27):
as Ant was coming off of ball screens to basically
force him to get rid of the ball. And there's
a bunch of different factors here. Some of this was
like there, like Denver was running a little bit more
passive coverages in the early part of the series, and
Ant was able to get ahead of Steam, and after
I got ahead of Steam, Jokicic just couldn't keep him
from the rim, right But like, it's hard to get

(20:47):
ahead of Steam to like to actually get your momentum
going if that runway is taken away by you coming
off the screen and just running into another defender right away.
And so Dallas just took this to the next level.
And we saw him struggle a little bit in that
late portion, middle late portion of the Denver series, and
like two Ant's credit, he made plays. He made some

(21:08):
big plays in Game seven, he kind of cracked through,
did just enough to win that series and get into
the next series. But Dallas basically doubled down on that
game plan guard guard screens. He was getting doubled a
lot of the time in actual big man screens. Gafford
and Lively were both coming way out and forcing Aunt
to get rid of the basketball. And like it's two factors.

(21:29):
Ant wasn't doing enough of a job trying to counter that.
And I'm gonna get into some specific cent a minute,
And the second factor of it was go bear, Like
you're just running a lot of four on threes and
there are four on threes with Jada McDaniels and Rudy
Gobert on the floor and sometimes Nikile Alexander Walker on
the floor and sometimes Kyle Anderson on the floor, and
like those are just really limited offensive players specifically, go

(21:50):
Bear is often the decision maker in those situations, Like you,
like Dallas just knew they could get because what's the
fear if you send your big up to the level
of the screen, what you're scared of is their big
getting behind because if he gets behind, you can throw
it up to him. And all the really good role
men in the league are gonna score that every single
time or make a pass out of it every single time.
And like Gobert will occasionally make a decent read in

(22:12):
a four on three, but he's certainly not great at it,
and he's definitely one of the worst pick and roll
like catch and finish and traffic guys that we have
in the league. And so it just it was one
of those things where, like I thought it specifically with
pick and roll, there wasn't a whole lot that Aunt
could do. Now where I do get really critical of
ant is it led to him being passive instead of

(22:34):
like getting rid of the ball and then immediately trying
to become a threat again to make something else happen,
or hey, maybe don't attack with the ball screen anymore.
Like one of the things that really bothered me about
ants play in that specific series is he didn't look
confident going against Derek Jones Junior. Now, Derek Jones Junior
is a very good athlete, and so I understand why,
Like it's not the same type of advantage as he

(22:54):
had in earlier series, Like KCP is just way too small,
not athletic enough to hang with him. Like Christian Brown
was big and strong enough to kind of hang with Ant,
and he had some good reps against Aunt. But Christian
Brown also has his offensive limitations. And you know when
you go from KCP to Christian Brown, you take some
damage on the defense or on the offensive end, right
if you're Denver. But Derek Jones Junior, like for as

(23:16):
athletic as he is, and it was a lot bigger
and stronger than him, And so I wanted to see
Ant like do more of what he did in the
regular season, like bring the ball up the right side
of the floor, like clear the side and like just
go to work against Derek Jones Junior, Like, get go
to work and try to bring a second defender in
a clear, straight up double team on a cleared side,
see if you can't get some better opportunities there, rather

(23:36):
than doing it in the ball screens where like it
was really easy for Denver for Dallas, excuse me, to
make him get rid of the ball and then just
run really basic rotations on the weak side to make
sure that it was like Jaden McDaniels trying to knock
down a three or Rudy Gobaert trying to like catch
and finish in traffic which wasn't working very well. Like
that's really the main thing is, Like I think he
only took something like thirty three shots in game one

(23:58):
in game two of that series, and I think he
only had like forty points if I remember correctly. Like
that that was the real disappointing part was Ant faced
an aggressive coverage that made him get rid of the ball,
and so he was like fine, and he just got
rid of the ball and then he backed off. Now
I don't think people realize like he really did respond
to that well over the last three games of the
Western Conference Finals. Anthony Edwards averaged twenty eight points, nine rebounds,

(24:22):
and eight assists. That's right back to like top tier
superstar level production in those last three games of the series.
But at that point I thought it was too late.
They went down two on the road, and as we
all know, Luca went in there in game in game
five and just landed the executing blow in that first quarter,
and then the series was basically over. But you know
what really bothers me is that playoff run is discussed

(24:45):
as though Ant got exposed, like so many people, it
was so interesting to watch as a fan, as like,
as we headed into that Western Conference final series, there
was all this hype around Ant and it was like,
oh my gosh, rise of the next great superstar. This
is gonna be crazy. And then like he had a
couple of bad games in a series against a much

(25:08):
more established superstar who is the second best player in
the league in my opinion, in Luka Doncic and had
some issues and it's like, okay, like I get it,
he had some issues, but like everyone immediately jumped off
the bandwagon and it's like it's not even close to ready,
Like this guy's like got exposed and it's like did
he get exposed because he had a couple of really

(25:30):
bad games, and that sort of thing happens, like guess what,
Like the majority of stars have bad playoff games and
as we like kind of zoom out, it's like, okay, wait,
he just played a sixteen game playoff run where he
made it to the conference finals where he swept a
team with Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and Bradley Beal on it,
where he eliminated the defending champs led by the best

(25:51):
player in the world, where he like single handedly removed
their second best player from the game in the second
half during their run with what he could do on
the defensive end. And he wrapped up his playoff run
averaging twenty eight points, seven rebounds, and seven assists on
sixty percent through shooting. And everyone's talking about how he's exposed,
Like I don't get that. That's not being exposed. That's

(26:13):
just a tiny taste of a dominant basketball player starting
to realize his potential, which is literally astronomical. So and
that takes us to the big question here, why do
I have ant this high? And I have five reasons
for you guys. I'll go through them quick and then
we'll move on to our next player. Reason number one.
It fits my tiers perfectly. I think Ant is a

(26:35):
perennial MVP candidate. He averages so far in his four
year NBA career seventy six games played per season. He
played seventy nine games in each of the last two years,
so he's basically the most available superstar in the league
right now. I think he's gonna average somewhere around twenty
eight six and six on sixty percent true shooting this year.
I think he's gonna get there. I think he's gonna
have I think he's going to translate that jump shooting

(26:56):
to the regular season sample this year. His team is
set up for regular seasons. Like they're not as talented
as the as the Boston's and Denvers of the world,
but like they're young, they're athletic, they're huge on the
front line, and that's gonna keep in a lot of
close games where he can push his team over the top.
So I think they're gonna be a top four seed.
He already finished seventh in MVP voting last year before

(27:16):
he took his leap, so I think An's gonna finish
top five in MVP voting, and I think he's gonna
continue to do so for the next five years or so.
So that was reason number one. He kind of fit
my tiers perfectly as a perennial MVP candidate. Reason number two,
he's a twenty three year old high motor athlete. Again,
this is not about a series that starts tomorrow. Guys
like Anthony Edwards and Jason Tatum, they're gonna be much

(27:38):
closer to eleven on this list for a series that
starts tomorrow. I think there are better guys. If like
everyone's healthy and we're already there, there are guys that
I would take over them. But both Jason Tatum and
Anthony Edwards are safe bets to give you seventy five
plus games of Superstar production this year, and the guys
below them on this list are just not a safe
bet for that, And so that was the second reason

(27:59):
for me. He's available to play every night. He's a
freaky athletic player, is gonna apply a ton of rim
pressure and have bursts of defensive dominance mixed in with
obviously his his sketchy defense. But all that other stuff
is stuff that older guys struggle with over eighty two games,
and I just I don't have to worry about that.
With An, I don't have to worry like there's gonna

(28:20):
be a game this year where I'm watching Lebron on
a Tuesday in February, and I'm like, Lebron's straight up
like just not trying, like that's going to happen, Whereas
like with Ant, like that'll happen, but it'll be like
maybe three or four times the entire season. Like he's young,
He's got a ton of energy that brings a lot
of value in the eighty two game sample reason number three.

(28:41):
He has a proven playoff superpower. Already has a lightning
quick first step that can beat just about anybody off
the dribble, combined with a deadly pull up jumper. That's
the push and pull right when you're a defensive player.
Are you on your toes getting ready to contest or
on your heels getting ready to retreat? And Ant's one
of the rare guys that puts you in a position
where you have to make decision there, and neither decision

(29:01):
is a great decision. Most teams are going to back
off and try to make Ant shoot. We have a
pretty large sample size here now of Ant just being
a flat out deadly pull up jump shooter, so that
makes him basically impossible to guard one on one. Again,
as we looked at his struggles, his struggles that he
had in the postseason, they stemmed mainly from team related
issues combined with his passivity. After Dallas like straight up

(29:25):
double teamed him everywhere and Denver did the same thing,
like they handled him with aggressive coverages. It wasn't like
he'd like struggled to have success in a one on
one setting. It's just he and it's his fault too,
But him and the team couldn't solve the puzzle of
the four on threes on the back end. When Ant
would draw that second defender, that was a that's not

(29:46):
just on Ant, It's also on Ant, but it's not
just on Ant. Number four, he will, in all likelihood
experience the largest individual improvement on this list other than
maybe Wemby, by the time the playoffs come back around
next April. Again, as I've mentioned many times, this list
is not about a series that starts tomorrow. If you
can get through the regular season in a position to succeed,

(30:09):
which we know Aunt will, then it's about a playoff
series that starts in April, that is seven and a
half months away. That's a lot of time for Aunt
to continue this path where he is improving exponentially. And
then lastly, number five, he is already a proven playoff
riser his last three regular seasons twenty four, five, and

(30:32):
five on fifty seven percent through shooting, his last three
postseasons twenty eight, six, and six on sixty percent through shooting. Now,
for the record, this is relatively common in NBA history
among the dominant athlete archetype, the guys that are like
truly transcendently great athletes. The playoffs become more intense, more physical,

(30:52):
right all of a sudden. That's where the supreme athletes
can really flex their muscles and in many cases actually
further the gap between them and their peers. And so
that I don't think it's hard to figure out, Like
his scoring volume and efficiency goes up, his rebounding goes up,
his playmaking goes up. It's all just a product of
the fact that he's a supreme athlete in a setting

(31:13):
that is advantageous for supreme athletes. So to put it simply,
he's one of the most available and productive regular season
players in the NBA, who is a proven playoff riser
and who's likely to be a substantially better player by
the time we get to April. And when you factor that,
I also view him as a perennial MVP candidate, which
is literally the name of this tier, and it got
the number five spot for me going into the season.

(31:48):
Number four Shake Gildas Alexander. Speaking of perennial MVP candidates,
he's coming off of back to back seasons with top
five MVP finishes. Finished second last year, played seventy five games,
thirty points per game, six rebounds, six assists per game,
two point nine stocks per game. Only Daron Fox had
more steals per game than Shay Gills of Alexander. Last year,

(32:09):
Eshay was one of only three players in the entire
NBA to average at least thirty points per game and
at least six assists per game. You guys can guess
who the other two are. Luka Doncic and Jannis Antennakumpo.
Shooting splits fifty four percent from the field, thirty five
percent from three to eighty seven percent from the line.
That comes out to fifty seven percent effective field goal
percentage waited for threes, sixty four percent waited for free throws.

(32:33):
With true shooting percentage, only three players in the entire
league last year had a usage rate of at least
thirty percent, meaning they were of the the top tier
of high usage players in the league, while also having
a true shooting percentage of at least sixty two percent.
Jannis and Joel Embid were the other two. So basically
among guards, the only guy among primary perimeter players, the

(32:56):
only guy that had was that efficient at that level
of usage shooting numbers per Synergy one point zero three
points per jump shot, one point zero five off the catch,
only took seventy four off the catch jump shots all season.
Was a little iffy of a spot up player. You know,
Shay's so good in the other areas that it didn't
play as much of a role for me. But in

(33:16):
terms of versatility, Shay kind of tends a little closer
to the Luka Doncics, Like I'm not sure he could
play in like a a real equal opportunity type of system,
not as bad as Luca, but he's kind of in
that direction a little bit, And it just stems from
the fact that he's like not a great off ball
player at this point in his career. Now that said that,

(33:36):
who knows what's gonna happen in the long run, Like
Chet can get way better and Jalen Williams, you guys
know how much I believe in him. So, like we're
we're gonna learn more about Shay as an off ball
player over the next couple years, and I'm just curious
to see how that part of his game develops. But
it's definitely not a strength of his right now. Interestingly enough,
one point two to four points per shot when he
was unguarded on catch and shoots, just zero point five

(33:59):
to five when he was guarded. I thought that was
interesting because he has a real set shot, kind of
loaded the ground when he's in catch and shoot situation,
so kind of makes some sense that he would struggle
when he's contested. One point zero three points per shot
off the dribble, though seven hundred and thirty attempts, which
is insane volume. Forty seven percent in field goal percentage
fifty two percent waited for threes. Only Kevin Durant and

(34:19):
Devin Booker had to higher field goal percentage jump pull
up jump shots among players to attempt at least five hundred,
so that's some rare company that he's in there. And
when you wait it for threes. Out of the sixteen
players to attempt at least five hundred pullup jump shots,
Shay finished sixth inefficiency, so one of the best pull
up jump shooters in the league. He also got one
point zero six points per face up jumper only took

(34:42):
about like a little under one per game though, so
not a huge part of his game, but he does
occasionally do that. Fifty four percent on floaters, although only
fifty nine attempts the season, and then sixty four percent
at the rim, which is awesome for a guard and
awesome volume two, he attempted six point three shot attempts
in the restricted area per game, which is out standing.
You know what's really fascinating to me about Shae with

(35:03):
the way that he gets to the rim, because like
Shay is different than a guy like Aunt, where like
the way Ant gets to the rim is like he's
just hitting the gap, like he just sees an opening
and he shoots it, and he's so damn fast that
there's just nothing you can do, right, so damn fast
on him strong, you can't knock him off his line.
Like it's very much a power rim pressure kind of concept.

(35:26):
Shae gets to the rim a totally different way. It's
all about a couple. It's a couple of different things
that combine into like a very difficult player to guard
in space. So like, first of all, it's the fear
of the pull of jump shot. As we mentioned, among
players to shoot at least five hundred, the only guys
that actually hit a higher percentage of them on a
field goal percentage basis are Katie and Devin Booker. So like,
as you're guarding Shaye, you're constantly worried, as we talked

(35:48):
about earlier about being on your toes or being on
your heels, You're constantly worried on your toes that Shaye's
about to rise into a pull of jump shot that
keeps you off balance. That combined with a change of pace.
Shay isn't particularly fast, but he changes his speed from
stop to go to stop to go multiple times on
the same drive, which will catch you as a defender

(36:10):
in between steps or with where you step out of
your stance just barely as you kind of like rise
up to maybe contest a shot and then he'll shoot
the gap and get around you protected dribble combinations. This
is something that's always been really fascinating to me about Shay.
He'll sit in what I call a high hesitation, which
is basically just the bridge move right. So like if
I go through the legs and I end up in
this in my left hand, and I hesitate in the

(36:33):
high hesitation dribble, from there, I can rise up into
a jump shot, I can cross back over, I can
go behind the back, or I can push forward, or
I can throw it in and out, like I can
chain any dribble combination together from that high hesitation. The
second piece of it is dribbling in contact. So like
a lot of guys can dribble through cones, but then
they run into physical defense and then they lose control

(36:54):
of the basketball. That was one of the major issues
with Jaylen Brown over the last few years in the
postseason before this year where he kind of had a
more successful season in that regard. Shake yildess. Alexander is
constantly contacted you, He's got his shoulder on you, and
he's dribbling and making those those changes of direction while
dealing with contact, which is a rare ability and so
what that all amounts to because he can get in

(37:16):
that high hesitation and have you out of position because
you're worried about that pull up jump shot, and because
he can chain multiple changes of direction and multiple moves
in the same dribble drive, and because he can handle
the contact, he's basically just gonna dribble at you until
you cut him off, and then he's gonna fake the
pull up jump shot. Then he's gonna find a way
to counter back the other way, and he's just gonna

(37:37):
keep countering back and forth until you fuck up. And
then once you fuck up, he's pasted you, and he's
all the way at the rim. And when he gets
to the rim, he's got such good size and length.
I mean, he's sixty six with a six to eleven
wingspan that he can just kind of finish in traffic
and he gets good finishing angles there, right, and obviously
benefits from the five out spacing and the chet homegun
factor as well getting to the rim. But again, for

(37:58):
a guy that doesn't necessarily have like peak athletic traits
to get to the rim as often as he does
is super impressive. And to me, it all is just
like straight skill like fear of that pull up jump shot,
always being able to daisy chain multiple dribble combinations together
even in traffic, and also having that like ability to
deal with contact, and when you piece all of that together,

(38:22):
it just makes him really really damn hard to guard.
Play type data pers energy pick and roll. Shaye was
the second best high volume pick and roll player in
the league last year, one point one to six points
per possession including passes, that ranked second out of the
fifteen players to log at least one thousand reps. He
shot fifty four percent field goals on his own shot
attempts in pick and roll, so I Shay shot anything

(38:44):
and pick and roll had more than half more than
half of them went in, which is insane as we know.
Number one on that list was Tyreselliburton, but Shae second
best pick and roll player in the league last year
super impressive ISO one point one to two points per
possession on six hundred and five fifty six reps. That
is massive volume. Only Luka Doncic had more ISO reps

(39:06):
and to be precise, eighty additional ones. So it goes
to show you, like six hundred and fifty six for
Shae feels insane, and Luca had eighty more ISOs than that.
He was fourth on our high volume list out of
the twenty four players to run at least two hundred
and fifty ISOs. SHA's efficiency ranked fourth, and then also
had a really interesting post up season similar to what

(39:27):
we were talking about with Anthony Edwards. One hundred and
forty four post ups FO one hundred and seventy points
one point one point eight points per possession. That is
in the eighty third percentile. So in total, for those
of you guys who are doing the math, one eight
hundred and ninety one possessions of half court shot creation
that's all post ups, ISOs and pick and rolls, including
passes one point one five points per possession. That's insane.

(39:50):
I think Shay is the third best shot creator in
the league right now. So when it comes strictly down
to the concept of generating qualit shots for your team
in the half court, only Luka Doncic and Nikola Jokic
are better than Shay in my opinion at this point
in time. And you can combine that with him being
a really useful defensive player. He actually holds up pretty

(40:11):
well on the ball though he doesn't log too many
reps there. Oklahoma City has really really talented perimeter defensive personnel,
so they can kind of keep him off of that
type of role. Can be overpowered by some bigger forwards,
for sure, that's to be expected by most guards, and
he's a little on the thin side, but Shay is
a super useful help side defender. He has really good
length for the position, as we mentioned earlier sixty six,

(40:33):
with a six to eleven wingspan. He's particularly good at
swiping over the top of players as they gather in
traffic and digging down. It's like he comes from off
the ball, and he just gets a lot of deflections
in blocks just using his length actually closer to the baseline,
which is unique among guards. In situations where Shay ends
up as the low man, meaning where he's the guy
that's kind of in charge of the big man rolling

(40:56):
to the basket as well as the corner, he gets
a lot of deflection and makes a lot of plays,
gets a lot of stops in those situations, probably better
than most guards in the league, and certainly better than
most of the star guards that are in the league.
Shay has turned him into a legitimate two way player
at this point, and that's what makes him a bona
fide top tier superstar. He's a top three offensive engine

(41:18):
in the league, a legit two way player who's a
net positive on the defensive end of the flour. And
he's durable and dependably great on a night to night
basis in the regular season, which is obviously going to
put you very high on a list like that. And
I thought his first postseason run as a legit number
one went pretty well all things considered. Average thirty point
seven rebound, six assists, totally respectable, fifty eight percent true shooting.

(41:40):
It's obviously down it ran into a couple of issues.
He failed to reach his regular season free throw attempt
average in six of the ten games. That's to be expected,
you're going to get a tighter whistle. He had some
games where it was like the regular season, he was
getting every call, but several of the games where he
wasn't getting the same whistle. He missed some driving kick reads.
That was kind of a big problem for the entire
Oclame City roster. But you can say that about basically

(42:02):
every player in the league, aside from a small handful
like the Jokich, Luca Lebron Tier, like those guys that
are elite passers at the top of the league. They
never miss a read. It's extremely rare that they'll miss
a Reid, but pretty much everyone else misses Reid's on occasion.
And so Shay ran into some of that. But it's
not too hard to believe. And they had Dallas on
the ropes, Like, had Shae not fouled PJ. Washington in

(42:24):
the left corner of Game six, they probably get a
Game seven at home, and they're probably favored to win
that game. And now obviously Luca Game seven on the road.
Anything can happen, but they're probably favored to win that game.
So like, that's how close they were to being a
Western Conference Finals team. And Shay had some real moments too,
Like he had the game winner in Game one against
New Orleans, that little and one he got to think

(42:46):
it was against CJ. McCollum in the in the mid range.
He had fifteen points in the final fourteen minutes of
Game six against Dallas, just kept hitting tough pull up
jumper after tough pull up jumper, the kind of big
playoff moment you kind of imagined was Shae considering his
skill set as you just imagined him hitting a ton
of really tough pull of jumpers, and he did, and

(43:06):
he had what could have been the game winning assists,
a driving lob to chet Holmgren. But he just made
that one mistake, just came one play short and ended
up fouling PJ. Washington in the left corner, and they
got eliminated in the second round. Now, I don't think
Shaye will ever be what we'd consider to be a
playoff riser the way that ant is just because he's
so damn efficient in the regular season that it's actually

(43:27):
kind of impossible to replicate in the playoffs, and also
because he relies on the whistle a little bit. That said,
I was really impressed by Shae, and I thought he
held up better than it could have been. There are
versions of that, the heliocentric, you know, foul grifting, pull
up shooter. There are versions of that that doesn't translate
well to the playoffs. But Shay has so much versatility

(43:48):
in the way that he attacks. No two possessions look alike,
so many different drible combinations, so many different spots on
the floor where he can be a shot maker. That
he and guys like Luca just have more resilience than
the James Harden types where it's like all step back
thor hees left hand drives and you know that's pretty
much it, right, Like, there's definitely enough variety in there
to keep some resiliency. So, in summary, Shay is a

(44:11):
top three offensive engine. He is a reliable and dependably
great regular season foundation. He's not the most versatile offensive player,
as we talked about earlier. He struggles a bit off
the ball, but not enough to move him down this
list substantially, and I am curious to see how that
develops over the next few years as his teammates get better.
And to his credit, he is a versatile defensive player.
I think you can find a bunch of useful defensive

(44:33):
roles for him on many different types of rosters, which
gives in this case a theoretical GM like myself in
this theoretical draft, gives me some leeway in terms of
the types of defensive looks that I can build around him.
And then lastly, his games translate. His game translates well
to the playoff setting, so that makes him a clear
cut top tier superstar and currently the fourth best player

(44:54):
in the NBA to start a full season with in
my opinion. All right, let's get to the mailbag. Lots

(45:21):
of people mad about Ant being this high, So let's
get into some of your guys's comments. First, kind of
a big picture one and then I really really good,
well thought out basketball case I'm gonna read you, guys.
I don't understand how a dude has one conference finals,
has one playoff conference run, and e leap Frog's a
dude that's been to five conference finals, two NBA Finals,

(45:42):
and has a championship so far. Remember, this list is
not about credit. Tatum has certainly had a more productive
and celebrated NBA career so far. If we were using
last year's criteria, where it was mostly about credit, Tatum
is going to be well over Ant, right, But that's
just not the way at this particular list works. I'm

(46:02):
talking about guys to build a team around for this
coming season. I'm saying that I like my chances to
win the title building from scratch a little bit more
with Ant than I do with Tatum. All that said,
Ant made my perennial MVP candidate list, but I do
view him a little bit. I view a gap between

(46:23):
four and five, meaning like I view one through four
as like the top tier superstars, and going from five
to eleven, I think those guys are kind of bunched up.
So I don't see much of a gap between five
and eleven. So to be clear, I'm not saying I
think Ant is much better than Tatum. I think he's
barely better than Tatum, even though Tatum, even though Ant
is all the way up at number five. We're gonna

(46:44):
get into some of the basketball specifics in this next question.
I'm sorry, I can't understand Ant over Tatum. Ant has
the exact same key weakness that Tatum does less than
elite efficiency as a jump shooter, but still shoots them
at volume, but he has that weakness as a guard.
Tatum was twenty six seven, eight and five on sixty
percent through shooting last year turnover rate of eight point

(47:04):
six percent, and it was twenty six five and five
on fifty eight percent through shooting turnover rate of ten percent.
So Tatum put up superior offensive numbers despite having lower
usage than Ant does. And then defensively, as much as
Ant is an elite perimeter defender, Tatum is unquestionably a
higher impact defensive player overall. This is mainly because he
offers legitimate secondary rim protection, which was exactly why the

(47:26):
Celtics were able to successfully shut down some the same
MAVs attack that the wolves vaunted defense couldn't figure out.
Tatum's size and athleticism offers unique versatility when scheming on
defense in general that Ant does not. But on top
of all that, Tatum is likely the superior perimeter defender
as well. Think about that game this year where SGA

(47:47):
was cooking Derek White and Drew Holliday because they didn't
have the length to stop him. Then Tatum switched on
to him for the fourth quarter and shut off the faucet.
Think about the Net series two years ago where Tatum
clamped Durant and was getting legit blocks on his jumper.
I highly doubt Anthony Edwards can contain longer perimeter stars
like that at the same level Tatum can. It's just

(48:07):
Tatum isn't asked to be on the perimeter night in
and night out. The Celtics also had eight more wins
in the regular season than the Wolves and took home
the chip, so Tatum is a better player on both
ends of the floor, higher efficiency, more experience in every aspect,
plays as many games, more versatile for scheming on both
ends because of his size and strength, and just coming
off of a title which Ant has never won. How

(48:28):
can Ant then be the better player to build around
for twenty four to twenty five. You've admitted multiple times
during Ant's hot streak last year that he was becoming
one of your favorite players in the league. I think
you've got to own up to a little bias coming
into play here due to Ant being such a charismatic
dog and a fun player to watch. Respect everything you
do on this channel. My experience of the NBA has

(48:48):
been much richer for listening to your content. That is
probably the best comment that I've received in terms of
like making a basketball case since I started doing this list.
So I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to write that.
I'll out that's a damn good case. You did a
very good job. That's how you argue about basketball. You
don't just call someone a jackass and say they're wrong.
You tell them why. And I really appreciate you taking

(49:09):
the time to do that. That's what makes this sort
of thing fun. These are the kinds of debates that
I love having. When I was a plane in college
and we were done at practice and we were taking
our shoes off and stuff, just sitting down on the
sidelines talking shit, or on the bus or on the
plane or at the restaurant or whatever. These are the
kinds of conversations we would have. And you know, obviously
we weren't as much into the statistical weeds as I

(49:29):
am now, but that was the kind of conversations that
we had, and that's what I enjoy doing as a
basketball fan. Also, before we get to Aunt, one of
the things that I thought was really fascinating is you
talked about how Tatum's secondary rim protection is how they
shut down the MAVs and specifically putting Tatum on the center,
and you put that the Wolves vaunted defense couldn't figure

(49:50):
it out. The reason why I'm singling this out first
is I don't think it has anything to do with AUNT.
I was really fascinated after that series, after watching the finals,
that Minnesota didn't try, that Minnesota didn't try putting just
like putting Gobart on PJ. Washington or on Derek Jones
junior and letting someone like Cat guard the center. So

(50:11):
that they But the thing is is Cat can't guard
in space, so it have to be like Jayden. But
then again, it's like I don't think I don't think
Gafford and Gafford and Lively didn't get enough offensive rebounds
in the finals, And I'd be curious to see, like
if Jayden McDaniels was there, and you like just tried
switching that maybe with a bigger look with Kyle Anderson
on the floor, and you put like Kyle Anderson on Luca,

(50:33):
or maybe Jaden on Luca and Kyle Anderson on the
center and tried switching that with Gobert roaming off PJ. Washington.
I'm just curious, Like, I'm not curious why we didn't
see it, because it was kind of a new look.
Like this concept of like putting your centers on opposing
week above the breakshooters and guarding their center with a

(50:54):
like a Ford that's still a relatively new NBA concept.
And so give the credit to Joe Mizzoula for conceptualizing
just a really good defensive game plan against Dallas. But
there is some truth to the fact that you have
to have a big forward like Tatum that can wrun
guard centers and switch on to switch onto the ball
handler in order for that look to make sense. But

(51:16):
there's another side of that too, like you also have
to have your on ball guy be big enough. Like
it only works if Jalen Brown can also switch on
to centers, because you're gonna switch that Lucas center pick
and roll in that case. And so I know we're
not talking about ant at this point, but like just
strictly talking about defensive game planning, that is a really
interesting point, Like that concept of putting your forward on

(51:36):
the opposing center and putting your center on their weakest
above the break shooter. I think we're gonna see a
lot more of that in the NBA in the coming
years because it's copycat league and Joe Mizula leaned hard
into it most of the season too, Like you go
back in the regular season, Tatum's guarding centers a lot,
and so like, I think that it's gonna be just
a really interesting concept to see over the next couple
of years as more teams try to adapt that. But

(51:58):
there is a personnel element to it that extends beyond
one player. You have to have like a group of
personnel that is capable of executing that type of coverage.
On that note, let's get into your some of your points. One,
you were talking about his regular season production. I've said
in this episode, and obviously you wrote this comment before
I wrote this episode, but ant Lee took place in

(52:20):
the postseason runs. He just turned twenty three, So like,
that's the way this is going to work. Is going
to be much more of like a like Ant is
at a different phase of his career where he's improving
exponentially on a year over year basis right, And he's
a different player now than he was in the regular season.
He's been a flat out deadly shooter his entire postseason

(52:42):
career and just had a really good summer shooting the
basketball through both his playoff run and with Team USA.
So like, I agree with you that last year in
the regular season, Ant had the same issue as Tatum,
which was high volume, inefficient pull up jump shooting. But
Ant seems to be kicking that ish and shooting at
a really high rate in a large sample size. And again,

(53:05):
who knows what's gonna happen in the long run. Maybe
ant will take a huge downturn in shooting, and maybe
Tatum will take a huge upswing. But I am betting.
I am saying that I believe Ant's jump shooting is real.
He's also a great free throw shooter. He's got eighty
four percent on free throws last year. That is always
a strong indicator of shooting touch. And then lastly, he
gets better looks than everyone else because his first step

(53:26):
is so crazy it has everyone on their heels. So like,
I think a big part of why he shoots so
well is he just gets a lot of really good looks.
So to put it simply, like, I think Ant is
a more useful offensive player in a vacuum because he's
a substantially better athlete with a much quicker first step,
who's also a better shooter both off the catch and

(53:47):
off the dribble. So he's giving me more rim pressure
and more jump shooting to counter it. So, like building
from scratch as a GM, I think that's easier for
me to work with. Now let's get into Tatum a
little bit. Tatum is definitely a better place, but he's
not an elite passer either. He's just better than Ant,
and that carries a lot of value in the Celtics roster,

(54:08):
where they're surrounded by all these really good players, Right,
but this list implies I'm not getting Tatum, Jylen Brown,
Derek White, Drew Holliday, Chrisops, Porzingis, and Al Horford, like
I'm likely getting in this scenario where we're drafting, chances
are all the teams are gonna be relatively even with talent,
and so chances are instead of Tatum playing with five

(54:30):
other great two AA players, He's probably gonna play with
maybe like one really great two A player and probably
like two offensive specialists and then probably like two defensive specialists. Right, Like,
it's gonna be much more of like a mix of
different types of talent, which at that point, Tatum's lack
of offensive high end becomes more of a problem and

(54:51):
his playmaking becomes less valuable in that specific regard. And
that's really the thing is, like Tatum is kind of
hard to build around from ratch because he's kind of
like a B minus to B plus on everything when
it comes to the offensive end of the floor. Right, Like,
his durability on offense is impressive. He's always available, and

(55:12):
he shoots enough threes and gets to the foul line
enough that he can maintain efficiency and volume. That's why
he's always going to be like twenty seven points per game,
sixty per century shooting, twenty seven points per game, sixty
per century shooting, but he doesn't have an elite first step.
He's got good size for the position, but he's not
like physically dominant on offense the way guys like Kawhi
Leonard or Lebron James are. He's a good shooter, like

(55:33):
I genuinely think he's a good shooter, is just in
a bad slump, like I've said that many times. But
he's certainly not a great shooter. And he's a good passer,
but he's certainly not a great passer. So like, he
doesn't really have an A plus offensive trade, and so
like when I have Aunt, where I have this real
A plus offensive trade, which is like among players below
six to six, he's the best at getting to the rim.

(55:53):
Definitely gets to the ring more than Tatum despite significantly
inferior spacing, And when I combine that with him also
being a much better jump shooting threat, I just think
that that top end ability is something that I can
build around easier as a kind of a vacuum draft
sort of situation where I'm not going to have like
massive talent advantages the way that Tatum does. Within Boston.

(56:14):
I do think Tatum is a better defensive player. You
broke it down at length. We went into it a
little bit earlier, but I do expect that gap to
continue to shrink as the years go by. Again, as
we know, Ant does have all world defensive potential that
we do see in spurts, like we saw with Jamal
Murray in Game seven, but it's definitely too inconsistent at

(56:35):
this point. I also definitely agree with you that Tatum
is much more versatile defensively. I can do more with him,
I can plug him into different types of roles. So
if you were making the case for Tatum over Ant,
like if I, like, if you were making a list
and you had Tatum at five and Aunt at seven,
then that would be the angle I would take. Like,

(56:56):
that defensive angle is the one that makes a lot
of sense to me, and you're making in a really
good case. Comparing the Celtics to the Wolves is pointless
in my opinion. One the record is thrown off a
little bit by the fact that the Western Conference just
was significantly more talented. I can't remember that the stat
off the top of my head. But the West kicked
the shit out of the Eastern Conference and head to
head matchups this year, and then the Celtics just had

(57:18):
a lot more talent. Like again, like Datum was surrounded
by five legitimate two way players. If you want to
say Porzingis is in Horford are somewhat one dimensional defensive
league because Horford's not as big and Porzingis can't garden
space as well, I'll give you that. But at least
four awesome two way players around him, right, so like
or at least three, i should say, between Jalen Brown,

(57:39):
Drew holiday In, Derek White. Most teams in the league
don't have that type of two way talent. Like that's
like the other team that does is like is like
Oklahoma City, right, and that's the team that you're looking at.
But most teams don't have that luxury. And most teams
don't have the luxury of like every guy can shoot well,
pass well and defend well. That's that's really you know,

(58:01):
And like to put it simply, like if you put
Anthony Edwards on that Celtics team, he's getting he's getting
to the rim a dozen times a game, or you're
gonna have to double him every time at the rim,
where he's gonna generate a bunch of driving kick opportunities
like Anthony Edwards with real true five out spacing where
everyone can shoot, would be a terrifying thing to deal

(58:24):
with for any defense. And like that's the thing when
you look at that Wolves roster, like they had elite
defensive personnel. That's a good roster, really big on the
front line, some really interesting talented players, but everyone's got flaws, right,
Like everyone there. It's like Mike Conley is a really
interesting offensive player to help kind of grease the wheels
and run pick and roll with Rudy Gobert and to

(58:44):
spot up shoot and to hit his textbook, you know,
kind of famous right handed floater that he makes. And
Karl Anthony Towns is gonna have his games where he
gets twenty six points and the But like neither of
those guys are are truly useful defensive players. And Jade
McDaniels might be the best perimeter defender in the league.
It's it's I don't necessarily think i'd pick him, but
he's in the top tier, you know, And Rudy Gobert

(59:07):
is not that He's certainly in the top tier of
defensive players in the league, is in the top five
of all all around defensive talent in the league. But
both of those guys have some real limitations on the
offensive end of the floor. Like you're the concept that
the Celtics. The thing of it just simply through this lens,
Like the game plan for Dallas against Dallas, for Boston

(59:28):
was to concede wide open above the break threes to
if he shooters like Derek Jones or PJ. Washington, if
you tried that against Boston, they would light you on
fire because all of them can shoot so well. So
like again, like I again, I still tat him at seven.
You guys know how much I valuate him in his
defensive versatility and how well he fits in with that group.

(59:50):
But like guys, that Celtics roster is like other than
like true superstar laiden rosters like the twenty seventeen Warriors,
or like the twenty thirteen heat or like the Onekers,
like aside from the teams that just have insane top
end talent, like that's that's damn near a perfect roster
that Brad Stevens is put together, and it makes basketball
a lot easier for guys like Tatum than it does

(01:00:12):
for other guys around the league. The last bit, I
will freely admit that I, as a fan of basketball,
like ant more than I like Jason Tatum. He's quickly
becoming one of my favorite players. That's just, that's just,
that's just I'm just being honest with you. It's just
it's I don't go into it with the preconceived notion.
I watch the games and there are certain players that

(01:00:33):
I really like from certain players that I don't like
as much. It's all just normal. It's the same way
you guys feel when you watch You guys probably just
have different players that you like or dislike, right. But
to be clear, I try very hard to fight my
biases on these lists, and you kind of just have
to take my word for it that I'm being objective.
I understand that some of you guys don't believe me,
and then I'll never be able to change your mind.
But I really am trying. I really am trying the

(01:00:53):
best I can to be objective. But to be clear,
that comment was the best and most well thought one,
well thought out one that I've seen since we started
this list. So I really appreciate you taking the time
to write that down, Hey, Jason, love the show. In
the ranking segment, Tatum should be way higher, specifically over Shay.
He's the most versatile player in the league right now.
During this playoff run, he was the primary offensive initiator

(01:01:15):
while drawing the toughest defensive assignment. He finished the playoff
run leading his team in points, rebounds, assists against Bam
Mobley and double teams from Indiana and Dallas. On defense,
he can guard one through five and through everyone's offensive
game plan. Off by guarding centers against Dallas specifically, he
shut down the lob threat completely. His shooting slump was brutal,
but he still contributed at the highest level. Shay is

(01:01:35):
a more efficient scorer, but that's really it. He takes
the fourth assignment on defense and can operate can only
operate with the ball in his hands. It seems like
your ranking is a lot on projection, but Shay is
only a year younger than Tatum and the bodies of
work aren't comparable. Tatum has won more playoff series than
Shay has won playoff games. That's a crazy stat. He's
gone toe to toe with Giannis Embiid, Butler, Durant, Curry, Lebron,

(01:01:56):
and Luca in huge games and come out on top consistently.
Shay's best playoff run was a second round exit, and
the only series he's won was against the Pelicans team
without Zion. His team is poised to have a lot
of success in these next few years. But if Boston
beating the finals, I'll take Tatum's experience and resume every time.
So I'm not going to get into some of the
specifics with Tatum because I just did that with the
previous comment, But to really simply respond, I think Shay

(01:02:18):
is in like a completely different stratosphere than Tatum as
an offensive player, specifically as an offensive engine while also
being a legitimately good two way player. So to be honest,
I never even considered Tatum to be over SGA. I
just never gave that a real Look. What's wild is
you said Aunt over Tatum mid playoff run, then you

(01:02:39):
came back after he was eliminated and said you were
caught in the moment and that Tatum is better right now,
but you wouldn't be surprised if Aunt passes him even
next season. Then Boston wins a ring and now Ant
is back over Tatum. You do realize Ant hasn't done
anything Tatum hasn't already done even when he was Aunt's age.
So I understand that this can be confusing, And I
kind of talked about this a little bit earlier in
the show. But like talking about who better is all

(01:03:01):
about what criteria we're using. Like if I was just
sitting here and I was like, I was like, well,
I think that Lebron's better than Tatum, Like what do
you mean, like for tomorrow, Like, because like, yeah, I
probably agree, but like for starting a season tomorrow, like
a full season, it's a completely different conversation, right, Like

(01:03:23):
when someone says who's better at basketball, it's usually one
of three things, right, Like, it's of which I went
over at the beginning of the show, best for a
gamer series or starts tomorrow, best for an entire season
from start to finish, or the bragging rights piece, right Like,
that's the the bragging rights piece is tough, Right, That's
what a lot of Celtics fans are playing right now.
That's what a lot of the people have been done
doing in these comments, like Tatum just won the title,

(01:03:47):
Why isn't he higher. Okay, So that's bragging rights. You're saying,
regardless of what all the team circumstances and other things
going on are, Tatum has the trophy. Therefore he should
be number one. That's bragging rights. Right. For a game
that starts tomorrow, totally different conversation. Best for an entire
season that goes from start to finish, totally different conversation.

(01:04:09):
Adding the modifier that we're doing a whole draft from scratch,
that's a different conversation, right, And so like, yeah, at
the moment when Ant lost, and I'll even extend it
to today, if I had to start a playoff series
two tomorrow, I'm giving Tatum a slight edge over Ant.
And that's with me giving him grace because of his

(01:04:31):
poor jump shooting, Like that's me thinking that he would
shoot better if he was like the number one option
on the team and everything was falling through him, which,
by the way, he just did in the playoffs and
didn't shoot very well. But giving him that grace, Yeah,
I'd give Tatum a slight edge over Ant right now.
But I think that by next April, Ant's gonna pass him.
And I also think that Ant in the regular season

(01:04:51):
is a really useful offensive engine. And I think specifically,
if I was building a roster from scratch, Ant's a
plus offensive trait, which is elite downhill athlet um combined
with his pull up shooting, which has been far more
deadly than Jason Tatum, especially as of late. I want
Aunt and so again, that's where these conversations get a
little bit tougher. Bragging rights. Yeah it's Tatum best for

(01:05:12):
a game tomorrow. Yeah it's Tatum. But that's not the
purpose of this particular list. And that's why I broke
down the criteria at the beginning. That's why I've re
emphasized and gone over the criteria like thirty five times
over the course of this list, because I think that's
where most of the gap in our perspective has come from.
Two more eighty Shay and Aunt over Tatum is hilarious.

(01:05:34):
Only one of those players has proven that they can
be the best player on a team and win a championship. Tatum,
being a team player and all about winning while taking
a hit to his counting stats is exactly why he'd
be the perfect player to build around. He's already shown
he can average thirty in a season dude just played
point guard on offense and guarded the other team center
on defense. So first of all, like this is where
it gets triggy with the bragging rights thing, and this

(01:05:55):
is why I don't do bragging rights anymore. We do
bagging rights. I'm gonna do a video, so like after
this week, next week Monday, I'm gonna do one video
where I rank like the top five bragging rights guys
from last year. But so we're gonna do it. But
like for the purpose of this list, I don't like
to do that anymore. I think that that we made
some mistakes, and one of the biggest mistakes was last
year I had Luca at ten because he missed the playoffs,

(01:06:16):
so for bragging rights I had to have him lower.
But then like he went and kicked everyone's ass this
year and got all the way to the playoffs or
all the way to the finals. So like that's where
that that type of list has a certain amount of
flaw to it. Right, Let's put it this way, this
is why the bragging rights thing is silly. Tatum won
the trophy and he just played the worst playoff basketball

(01:06:37):
of his prime by far, Like he was in close
to as good as he was in twenty twenty two
when he lost. So that's what's kind of ridiculous, like
to put it. Here's another angle for it, like you
know who else won a title and didn't win finals?
MVP Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis's two way play in the
twenty twenty playoffs was infinitely more than Jason Tatum. He's

(01:07:01):
better than Tatum on both ends of the floor in
that playoff run by a wide margin. So that's why
I don't I think just pointing to this particular playoff
run and them winning the trophy is just a weak
case to put Tatum over people over people. For last question,
why can't the Lakers make the playoffs outright with two
top ten players? That's weird. I get versions of this

(01:07:23):
question all the time. It's really as simple. The Lakers
were a hell of a lot better than their record
would lead you to believe, because they had one bad
stretch over about three weeks in late December and early January.
They were one of the best teams in the league
to start the year, and they were one of the
best teams in the league to end the year. Also,
the Western Conference is super super deep, with talent. We
actually just look through the Western Conference standings, there's just

(01:07:44):
not much of a gap in that middle portion. All
of them are just kind of jammed up on each other,
like there's just more good teams in the West. When
there are more good teams in the West, it's going
to be more competitive. It's going to be harder to
jockey for playoff positioning, it's going to be harder to
put up bigger win totals. That's just to be expected.
The West, head to head, kicked the shit out of
the Eastern Conference this year. Even Boston, for as good

(01:08:07):
as they were, they were just three and five in
their eight matchups against the top four seeds in the
Western Conference. The Western Conference was just an entirely different battle.
Other little known fact, like if you take out that
three and ten stretch, the Lakers just looked like an
awesome team. Like again, awesome to start the year, won
the n season Tournament. From January seventh on, they were

(01:08:27):
like one of the top four records in the league.
I can't remember exactly off the top of my head,
I'll pull it up in a minute, but like they
were one of the top records in the league. They
they had seventeen wins according to Cleaning the Glass against
teams that were in the top ten in point differential,
would the only team that had that many wins other
than the Lakers was Boston, So that like the Lakers,

(01:08:51):
and then they went and played the defending champs and
outplayed them the majority of the series. They just got
gamed by Jamal Murray twice, which ended up costing them
the series. Like they they went blow blow with the
team that hoisted the trophy last year. So like again,
like were the like. I didn't think the Lakers were
a top tier championship contender. I had I had Denver one,
and I had Boston two, and then I had a gap,

(01:09:13):
and then I had everyone else, and I think I
had the Lakers sixth. I had him like fifth or sixth.
So no, I don't think the Lakers were gonna win
the title. I don't think the Lakers were gonna beat Boston.
I didn't think the Lakers were gonna be Denver. I
picked them to lose that series. But I do think
the Lakers were a hell of a lot better than
their uh uh than their than their uh position in
the standings would lead you to believe and quite frankly

(01:09:36):
like for Lebron and AD to be what I considered
to be the sixth best team in the league. Uh
to be the sixth sixth best team in the league
with Lebron and Ad on the roster, that goes to
show you they overcame a lot. That was with the
limitation of Darvin Ham as the coach, that was with
the lack of two way role players. Like, honestly, I

(01:09:57):
thought Lebron and Ad did more than pulling the and
like when people say, like, why didn't they make the
playoffs outright, despite the fact that Lebron and Ad are
top ten players, and it's like, did you watch them play?
They were awesome every night. They were literally awesome all
the time. And the issue was some rotation stuff in
the middle of the season. And then the fact that
they literally do not have like their starting five is

(01:10:20):
Austin Reeves, d Low and Rui good players, but it's
poorly balanced. There's nobody in None of those guys are
above average defensive players. That's the problem. And so like
they were constantly trying to overcome that. But by the way,
I pulled up the number over their final forty six
games of the year, which was from January seventh on,
they were thirty and sixteen. That was the fourth best
record in the league. Like, that was more than half

(01:10:42):
the season sample size. They were one of the best
offenses in the league. So, like a lot of people
like to be clear, Like if you were under the
impression that the Lakers were a bad basketball team, that's
just not accurate. That's just not accurate to what was
actually happening last year. Were they a top tier championship contender. No,
but they were firmly in the mix in that next
group that was below. All right, guys, that is all
I have for today is always sincerely appreciate you for

(01:11:03):
sporting the show. Don't forget to argue and tell me
how I'm wrong in the comments. Make a basketball case.
You have a much higher chance of getting picked in
the comments. We'll be back on Wednesday with number three
and number two. I'll see you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Then the volume the NFL season's right around the corner.
We'll be breaking down all the off season storylines on
the Colin Cowherd podcast. My best takes guests like my
buddy Nick Wright. Check out the Colin Coward Podcast Part
of the Volume Network available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever

(01:11:34):
you get your podcasts.

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Hoops Tonight - Top 25 NBA Players: Anthony Edwards SKY-HIGH CEILING, SGA & Thunder have ARRIVED

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