Two of the best defensive players of their era, Richard Sherman and T.J. Ward, finally go head-to-head on one of the biggest questions in NFL history: Who had the best defense—the 2013 Seattle Seahawks’ Legion of Boom or the 2015 Denver Broncos’ No Fly Zone? Sherm and T.J. break it all down, position by position. From Seattle’s legendary secondary with Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor to Denver’s stacked D led by Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware, they cover turnovers, sacks, offensive support, and who really had the tougher path to the Super Bowl.
It gets real as both All-Pros passionately defend their squads. Sherman argues the Legion of Boom took over the league with insane takeaways and football IQ, while Ward makes the case for the No Fly Zone’s relentless pass rush and lock-down coverage. They even dig into that unforgettable Super Bowl vs. Peyton Manning and how their defenses matched up against elite QBs like Drew Brees and Cam Newton.
So, what do you think—Legion of Boom or No Fly Zone? Drop your pick in the comments!
All lines are provided by Hard Rock Bet.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And we're back all off season long. We're gonna give
you a free agency, NFL draft and everything else that's
going on in this incredible NFL off season. Stick with us.
Be here, hit that sub button if you're new, and
also notification game so you can be notified when everything's
(00:21):
going down. Appreciate you. Welcome back to the Richard Sherman Podcast.
And today we got an incredible guest, TJ Ward, former
Daylight Soile High School, former Oregon Duck, all Pro for
(00:46):
the Cleveland Browns, former Denver Broncos.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I mean you've been everywhere, TJ. Brother. Appreciate you joining me.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Hey man, no doubt. Thanks for having me, Sharon. Man,
it's a pleasure. Great seeing you doing your thing on
every platform.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Man, trying to up. Man, I'm trying to catch up.
I appreciate you coming on. Brother, I see you grind it,
got your own part, doing your thing. It's gonna be
a fun discussion, man.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Man, I can't wait always is man.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I tell people all the time. Man, we go back
to college when we was battling on Rainbow six on
the PlayStation two back in the day. Man, take me back, man,
we used to be man, good time good tide. Man,
it seemed like it seemed like forever ago. But man,
none the less man. Glad to be here, Glad to
be here. Yeah, so let's commence with the show. Let's
(01:32):
commence with the show. Man. It's been a few weeks
since we've been kind of going back and forth on
our opinions about our great defenses. And let's get that understood. First, Man,
we both played for two of the greatest defenses ever. Right,
that's an honor and a privilege. And I know you
feel how I feel about my defense and my secondary,
(01:56):
and you feel how you feel about your defense and
your secondary. But nonetheless, man, a handful of amazing players
on both ends. But we must figure out who's number
one in.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The debate, right, we gotta we gotta figure that out.
It's it's gonna be a fun debate. I can't wait
to sift through it line by line and figure it out.
Because leave leap leaving, uh and Skip just wanted to
start some stuff. That's what it was. Leave and Skip
just wanted to start some No, and I said, and
I love leave to death. Lee was with us on
(02:31):
Amazon at first, and then things you know, didn't didn't
situate like like they should have and didn't work out.
But he's doing a great job with Skip. But I
was like when he when he said it, I was like,
I mean, I want to be with you, Lee, but
everybody gonna say I said I told somebody else this.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
They were like, man, he said he was better than you.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
He said, I said, you ain't gonna find a corner
in this world that don't say they the best. Yeah,
and and rightfully so like Leeve was nice too, and
people don't give Leave enough credit. Lee was like that,
like that you're talking about ten pick sixes, Leave strapping.
He talking crazy. If it wasn't for the off the
field stuff, they would talk about Leave so much differently.
And that's what I tell people all the time. Lee
(03:10):
played at a high level. But then he said the
whole the Hey, the secondary was better and he would
have been the best on both secondaries.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
And I was like, leave now now alone.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Now we had some guys over there, now leave, Yeah
we could play.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What episode was that was that?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I was wondering because people was like asked me, like, like,
where did this come from? I'm like maybe it was
something on the grid on or when we did the
top of on me and Leave had did like a
TikTok cut or something we had named the top defenses,
right I had you guys?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Was that it no, no, no, this was Leave and
Skip and it was on it was on their show,
their their show, and you know, Skip Skip trying to
start stuff. Skip's like, you know, I thought I thought
you were better than sir. I just thought you were better,
you know, like, and it's fine. But then Lee started
(04:09):
to speak about the two secondaries and said, you know,
speaking about himself, and and you know how you know,
if he had to be if he had to say anything,
he taking him all day, either secondary, either anybody in
either secondary. I'm taking me. I'm the best player and
on either secondary. And I was like, okay, leave, like
we'll we'll go. And then he was like, no, flies
(04:30):
on and what y'all did, and how people would prefer
to watch y'all and if if if he had to
pick which secondary was better, he would say, y'all secondary
was better.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And I was like, okay, leave, Now I gotta say something.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I gotta say, yeah, yeah, I gotta saying.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
He said, like our defense was sexier, right, and I'm sexier.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Would be the word I would use I would just
be more. We were more.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I would say, just more in your face style, right.
We we had to play man. We was pressing all
the time. We blitched a lot are We had two
of the best pass rushers ever to play the game,
the Marcus where And and Von Miller. And you know,
pass rush and secondary goes hand in hand. You know,
(05:15):
whoever gets the creditors, whoever get the credits, We locked
it down on the back end. They get the sacks,
they get the quarterback first, we get the pbu's the
interceptions or the just the sacks, right So, and the
sacks is one thing that I'm going leanto, you know,
not only just the d ns in the in the
in the pressure, but you know it's a secondary status
(05:38):
well because you know, we gotta do what we gotta
do on the back end and a lot occasions to
make those sacks happen.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So and you know, I like to prior myself in
being such a great blitter.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
And I mean I had two sacks that season, you know,
a few pressures, but you know I was always had
to be accounted for in the pass rush, right so
you know, I think we had fifty two sacks that year,
fifty two sacks that year. Just going over the quick basis, right,
you guys had, you know, points per game. You got
(06:10):
us fourteen point four our eighteen point five total yards.
Y'all had us two seventy three to two eighty three
our twenty seven takeaways to y'all thirty nine our fourteen
picks to your twenty eight picks. Right, Hey, when you
look at that, y'all got it right. But the only
thing that I would eject in those stats, and I say,
(06:36):
you know how many times we had to.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Go on the field because of our giveaways? Right.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You don't like to say what the offense, You know,
how the offense attributes to great defense. But I have
to say that that matters, Sam, and I have to
say that matters just because.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It is what it is.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Right, It's a fact like when you hit the field
more when you have to play a certain style of
defense to not only push opposing offenses out of scoring range,
but you play a style that we have to get
(07:15):
what we have to get right now, Like we don't
have the time to or the luxury to trap offenses. Right,
you guys had a lot of turnovers, not that we
can't deny that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
We can't deny that, but.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I feel that you guys had the luxury provided by
your offense not turning the ball over.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And I'm not trying to down.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Our offense like that because you know, I always say
this in every interview, when we needed something from our offense,
whether it was a last drive, whether it was a
touchdown or first down, they came through in critical moments.
So they did what they had to do in those instances.
But like thirty one, I think it was thirty one
turnovers to Seattle twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Seattle Seahawks was nineteen.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Which was the fourth fewest, and ours were the fourth
the fourth highest.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
But that's see, that's where I'm gonna go. I'll accept
what you're arguing, but I will I will raise you.
Did you have you ever heard of a two thousand
Baltimore Ravens. I have you know who played quarterback for
them for that season? I do, and I'm glad you
brought that up.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
But finish it.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah it was Trent Dilferd believe right, and Trent deal
for for half the year and Tony Banks for Tony
Banks for half the season.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, correct, Yeah, it wasn't not scoring a lot of
not scoring a lot of talents.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
But what they did do they protected the football. Yeah,
they were.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
They had the nineteen interceptions between they had how many interceptions?
Nineteen nineteen picks, but they didn't have I think they
only had four fumbles. They were like the number one
in the league in protecting the football, running the.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Ball right, maybe maybe running the football, but they had nineteen.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
And so let's let's put them at twenty two turnovers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Mhm. I mean that's not thirty one. This is a
whole this is a whole different league.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
But what I yeah, I'm saying is in this, in
this situation, we're we're saying, y'all, y'all, they they had
we had nineteen, y'all had thirty one. We also added
twelve takeaways, so we gave them twelve more possessions. We
gave them twelve more possessions. And I would and I would,
I would argue because I want to. I'm gonna clear
this missnover up because I get tired of people saying,
(09:42):
y'all just setting zone all day like that boy on
third down. We and man, just like everybody else, everybody
in the National Football league, third and five, three to
maybe seven eight, just about everybody playing man. After that,
it might go zone. You might go a little, you know,
third and ten plus, you might go loose. Two, you
(10:03):
might go three. You might go a lot of stuff.
But third and five we and.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Man of man.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
We and man of man, and we played man just
and we played press. And anytime you didn't have a
number two to receive it, your side and you that corner,
you and man, you and man, you got him. If
he go up top, that's you. If he won a dig,
that's you. If he won us slant, that's you. If
he catch that rock, that's on you. But so I
want to I want to give that. And we were
as in your face talk shit as anybody in the league.
(10:30):
We taking the ball, talking crazy, talking record. I mean
in the Super Bowl he was talking reckless to Peyton
and all in boys because we didn't like we didn't
like how they how they was talking. Uh in the
media that week. I mean you talk about the ship
up said at the Crabtree in the NFC Championship it
was and we was talking, yeah, we was talking cash yeah,
and we running and hitting. We went in hitting, y'all
(10:52):
was running and hitting. Two you and Darien y'all was
back there smacking. Yeah, everybody know what Cam didn't done.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's legendary.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Earl was out there hitting, and then we can we
can go through the front. I wanted, I wanted to
keep it in the secondary for a second, but y'all,
y'all had the two Hall of famers up front.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
We had.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
We had Chris Clemens was was a great rusher. Our
starters were at end where Red Bryant and Chris Clemens.
Then me bang some dogs April Red and me bang
some dogs. Big dogs. Yeah, big dogs, big dogs. Mike
b and Cliff the year we won the Super Bowl
(11:30):
were rotate and that was the first year they got there.
They weren't even starters yet. They didn't start till the
next year. And that's what Bob people don't understand. That's
how deep the d line was. Them two dudes was
probably our best rushers, I mean, our best rushers.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, and they didn't even start. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Shit, we had you know, Shaq Beard coming off and
in first round pick Shane Ray, Shane Ray was coming off,
and then you know, inside, I think it was probably
our most underrated part was Dereck Wolf and Leik Jackson
and Slim that's the Selvester Williams two inside, then them
three on a rotation.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Especially in past Russ situations.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I felt were, you know, three of the best interior
pass rushers in the game at that point, right.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
But see that's why I get. I get I kept
it with the secondary for him because I was like,
if we talked Secretary Lee, this is this is not
going to be the discussion you think it is, because
I feel like we we took the ball away at
a high level.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Even Byron.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Maxwell had four interceptions, Earl had five. H I believe
Cam had three, yeah, and then I had eight.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah, I mean Cam had yeah, Cam had three, Max
had four, Earl had five. But you gotta that's to
the that's to the cover three man. You guys always
had eyes on the ball.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
And but but what what I'm saying is I had
I had four of them in man. So that's what
I'm saying, Like, it's I could I could, I could
listen to the cover three thing, but I could say
we played a lot of man too when we needed to.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
We need to really strap down.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
We strapped, especially when we're playing San Francisco because theydn'td
have no receivers like that. We're like, hey, press, everybody, press, we.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Man, they ain't had no receivers, then they ain't had
no quarterback all due respect, I mean, Colin cap you
should have seen.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
What we did to that boy the year right four.
You know who did have a quarterback, The Broncos. They
had a quarterback who set the record for touchdown passes
with fifty five yeah, and fifty five hundred or three
hundred yards, and we strapped them up too, strapped them up.
I think that shit.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I think honestly, I think that game got out of
hand early.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You know, they snapped the.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Ball over for the safety and your offense was scoring
at will on them boys, they wasn't.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Our offense scored like two touchdowns, Like our offense didn't
score until like the second quarter.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Like y'all had the Malcolm Malcolm my dog mouth shout out,
Mount had his interception.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
What was that the third quarter for the touchdown. Yeah,
it didn't get out of hand till the second half.
Like it was a close game unt until the second half.
I think it was eight to nothing until middle of
the second or middle of the and I think that
might have been our first touchdown from our offense.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And it was fifteen.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Oh yeah, Like they didn't get out of hand until
late we start punishing it, punishing them. But a lot
of that game happened because we watched the tape of
them boys.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And I love.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
The Marius and what he did and Decker and Welker
and all the boys. But when we watched him on tape,
people was just getting tired. Like that was the big
thing from that game. Like we were watching them and
watching him beat beat the heck out of everybody, and
everybody was just getting tired. They was running simple stuff.
They was running like day one, day two install of
(14:40):
training camp. Like it wasn't like they was running some
complicated They running drive, basic, slat flat, curl flat, like
simple stuff TJ.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But everybody was.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
They was getting to the line quick, people trying to adjust,
people trying to check people ain't lined up, and they
just efficient.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
It was a speed offense, but that that running game.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
The thing I say.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
They scored a lot of points, like you said, because
you know they were they were on the ball, very
high tempo offense, like a Chip Kelly offense almost in
the League, right, they could not run the ball, so
expecting anything but past. You know, I think who was
the running back they had that year. It wasn't no Sean.
(15:24):
It was ball, money ball. It was money ball. It
might have been a combos, a couple of people. But yeah, yeah,
but yeah. But also we're gonna flip it and go
to the Broncos defenses that year, right once they got
all them injuries out the way.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Von Miller didn't play in that game. Chris Harrison didn't
play in that game.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Derek Wolf didn't play in that game. Uh, who else
didn't playing that game? Kevin Vickerson didn't play in that game?
Raheem more than playing that game. Would you not say
that your offense really controlled the ball that game and
really went up up and down the field with no
(16:09):
turnovers against that Broncos.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I would not. I would tell you to watch the game.
I would tell you they had a couple three and
outs early in that game. They were not doing well.
They were not moving the balls particularly well. We got
held to three points multiple drives early on, like they
were getting held to three point three point like it
was eight to ozer because they we had two field
goals in a safety like, but I would say our offense,
(16:33):
I mean rush through for two touchdowns, I think two
hundred yards. Like, it wasn't a crazy, crazy game for
him by any stretch of imagination. You know what it
was Percy. Percy had a return touchdown, Yeah, that was
We had a defensive touchdown. We had a two point conversion.
So that's that's that's sixteen, So sixteen of the forty three,
So that's you know what I mean. Like then the
(16:56):
rest of the offense, I think Marshawn might have had
two tugs. Like, But what I'm saying is in this,
in this general in this defensive discussion, if we're talking
about who played the game like we played it, we
played within the circumstances you given. You you you given
the circumstances you're given, and you played within them and
the circumstances we were given. We played Drew Brees before
(17:18):
we played CAP. We played Drew Brees and guess what,
he had thirty nine touchdowns, five thousand yards to twelve
interceptions that season. When we played Drew in the division,
we told him up. We told him up, like Drew,
you got to go. And that's what we did to
just about everybody who stepped in front of us. So
it's we're not gonna sit here and be like, man, y'all,
who did y'all play like?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I don't know. Yeah, we just got a jacket.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
We had, We had can boys to they They was
pretty prolific that year in offense. Number one in offense
and I think number two in Russian offense something like that.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And now you've seen the game. He couldn't do nothing
at all, right, but he's still throw for two forty
and that was garbage time.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
The game was over, you know, the game was over
by the end. He really we really would have shut
him out. I mean, they scored a touch I can't
say that. If you get the ball in your territory
and you don't hold the offense to three points, then
you fail. That's off feel, right, even if even if
they get the ball in your territory, your job is
a whole them and field go range. And we let
(18:22):
Stuke get a touchdown. So I'm not gonna say we
wouldn't shut him out or nothing. But you know, the
ten the ten points that they did have, you know,
one was from that touchdown for Stu and one was
later in the game.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
But nonetheless.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Go ahead, you know, Cam Newton MVP, and they defense
went out there and made us turn the ball over
another two times, right that defense. Luke Keigley going in
the hall this year. I just seen Luke at the combine.
Funny story going in the elevator after that later, but he.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Just walked in the elevator.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
You press the button, look up Louke Keigley. It's the
second time I ran into him on some crazy ship
like that. But anyway, defense was stacked two interceptions on
the side.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I think overall we played a better team than y'all.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, but nobody would say that, Like if you say,
if your argument is the the.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
With with with Brown and whoever.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
They had a receiver that year for Carolina, Like nobody
can start in the league. You could take Greg Olsen,
but nobody who would start in the league for any
other team.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Carolina again was smoking that year. I'm not saying he
had number one. He's not a certified number one. They
had Hollywood Brown, I forget.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It, but they had a good three man.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Greg Olsen debataball Hall of Famery was strapped all games,
strapped him up like some l A gears.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
But uh, the running game I think was that that
three headed j Stell.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
The other fullback, and Cam Newton was probably the most
potent threat for sure, for sure the most.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
But but you're not. But that's what I'm saying, teacher,
That's what I'm saying. It's we arguing things that cannot
be argued, because the twenty fifteen Broncos are the most
prolific offense in the NFL's history, not not just the
NFL's history, the playoffs too. They were still killing it.
And that's like, and what I'm go ahead. What they're
(20:35):
saying is if we if we ain't talking regular season,
what the are we talking about? Like, that's what records
are broken. That's when they're they're figured. They were killing
throughout the playoffs. So let's let's not think, oh, they
weren't scoring big points throughout the playoffs. They just didn't
get to that super Bowl and score points because of us.
They just ran into an immovable object. But they were
doing it all season long. They set records that the
(20:57):
Carolina Pansers didn't set no records.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
They didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
They don't got no players that you can remember outside
of Jay Stewart Cam Newton. It was Cam Newton and
the Boys. The defense was the was the strength of
that team, the the Denver Broncos. The offense was one
of the great there's still records that have not been
touched at that that that team had. They had three
was it four thousand yard receivers? Because nah, no, they
(21:22):
had at least three. They had at least that. The
tight end was a thousand both receivers. Decker and I
think I think Wes Welker was like nine hundred. So
you're talking about That's what I'm saying. The numbers were
that crazy. And they had eight points, and they had
eight points in garbage time because the Marrius just was relentless.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
The Marryus was not gonna go out of there without
a fight.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Man, my boy, long live, long live. But but that's
what I'm saying. I'm saying we took the football away
at a high level. And you can call it cover three.
But the reason we played cover three was because we
had such smart individuals. Like imagine going into a game
and knowing, hey, all right, if we can see them bang,
(22:04):
we know what plays they gonna run, we know what
concepts they're gonna run.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Hey, I need you here, I need you here. Hey,
you you shift this way. Hey. They know what we're in.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So we're gonna bastardize it like this, and we're gonna
force the ball here and we're gonna book them, like
that's why we bring this so that we can we
can play to the strengths of our players, play to
the intelligence and the IQ of our players and take
the football away that manytimes, that's why we that's why
we killed everybody. Like the big play where Cam hit
the Marus, that was one robber. Yeah, that was one robber.
Cam robbed in the middle of the field and was
(22:33):
coming down. They ran a man beater a pick you know,
crossers and Cam said like like, and that's early in
the game. So again we're playing man on that play.
That's man one robber. But we were we were playing
to the strengths of our players visual like and man
as you know, you ain't you can't look, you can't
really play to concepts and all that. You gotta like, Hey,
(22:54):
I'm I gotta get to here, get to my leverage,
like hands on staying his hit, like I might chance
to glance if I read throughout early now, But it's
harder to get interceptions. So that's why you rarely have
these teams that are playing so much men coverage go
to the Super Bowl. Like That's why in the last
probably ten years, you look at every Super Bowl champion
(23:15):
and what they playing on defense, and I mean every
NFL team, nobody's playing more than thirty percent man. Even
in Broncos this year, who were living in Man van
Joseph Hatton Boys and Man all time, it was like
thirty one percent.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, But I think that just makes us even more
special because we did go to the Super Bowl and
we did dominate every team we played defensively. If you
look back at our schedule and you look at the
way we won every game, it was a defensive play
to win the game, whether it was a force turnover,
an interception of fumble for scoop and score a fumble
(23:50):
or interception backed up, if it's a sack to push
another team out of field goal range. Not every game,
but most games was a play like that to win
the game and to.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Go into like your cover three. We only ran cover
three on third and long.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
We had a three buzz, but outside of that our
zones were zone man's cover eight right quarters one, cover
quarters two, cover six, reverse quarters two right. That takes
when you're running multiple defenses and to be as cohesive
as we were, and to communicate the things we did running,
(24:29):
whether it was a fire zone, a zone man or man.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Robber, all that.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
When you have all these accumulations of defense and you
still are able to communicate across the board and get
things done, and that says another thing about your secondary
and your defensive intelligence as well.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
No question about that, now, no question about that. It
takes intelligence, especially safeties, because y'all got to get everybody
lined up, and you got to get everybody moved, and
you got to know where to drop and where to
play and all these crazy blitzes. But it takes. It
takes some cajone's to say, hey, we're gonna run. We're
gonna run three fourth things. We're gonna run, man, we're
gonna run three occasional fire zone and we're gonna line
(25:10):
up and you ain't gonna know nothing about it.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
I'm curious about what do you think your percentage of
you know, I know that was your your home defense, right,
what a percentage would you say you ran at above
all of the defenses.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And it's just a curious question. Yeah, all defenses, the three.
It just depends on what you if what you're talking about,
because if you look at the league right now, everybody
runs Cover three at about fifty percent everybody because it's
eight box and it's and it's your first down defense.
Everybody's eight bocks first down against the run. And so
that's what a lot of times it be in because
(25:45):
we're playing it against the run. We're playing base cover
three against whatever base personnel twenty one or twelve.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So if you above the rest of the league, Oh.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
No, I'm not saying above the rest of the league.
I'm saying pop just within your team, like compared to
like your cover ones and your would it be like
fifty percent Cover three, fifty percent every all other defenses?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Right, we probably be twenty four to twenty five percent man,
we probably be fifty percent Cover three. We probably be
like ten percent Cover two, maybe ten percent fire zone three,
something like that.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Okay, Okay, I say we was probably like we was
probably like forty percent man, thirty percent a quarter style defense,
right whether it was six eight or straight up quarters.
We probably did that thirty percent, probably another twenty percent
(26:52):
I'll say ten to fifteen percent a fire zone, maybe
ten more like ten percent fire zone, and then another
ten to fifteen paying cover three D just because we
ran that a lot on third down, you know, third
and long, third and long.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
What Schwartz in Cleveland with you?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Nah?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I didn't have Schwartz, I didn't have Sworts. Who'd you
got I had?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
My first year, we had man Jeanie. It was Rob Ryant,
which was great. Rob Ryan was great defense all over
the plays right the name of it. It could be anything.
Then I had Dick Geron, who I came from Green
Bay and he ran We ran more of a four
to three style where strong safety. I was setting a
lot of edges. I was playing like a damn outside linebacker.
(27:38):
It was probably like the worst. And I always say
that I broke my foot that year because I was
forcing so much shit inside. My second year and halfway
through the season, my foot just snapped on me. And
then I came back. The third year was Dick Geron again.
I don't even remember that year too much. I think
I got a pretty good year of DC. But my
fourth year and probably my favorite defense was Ray Horden,
(27:59):
Ray Horden came Pastsburg. I love that defense. I wish
I could have played in his defense my whole career.
And I don't know what happened to him after that season.
I think he man went to Arizona for a little bit,
or he was in Arizona before. But that was one
of my favorite defense along with Wade Phillips.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And then when we got.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
To Denver, we had we had Jack fit for that year.
That first year we had Jack. And the only thing
is I didn't like about that defense. It was like
it was like a three man concept right to the
line to tighten and if I want to play man,
let me play man.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Let me go get him and take him.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
It was like a man where if the tight ends
went over the linebackers, then you take him, and if
he don't, then it's like a little discrepancy there. And
a lot of times I was ended up chasing guys
laid across the field because the linebackers. It's great, you know,
because it's great, so great, and I'm with Pro Bowl
that you actually had some great numbers, but I just
(28:55):
didn't feel, you know, to yourself. Sometimes you had the
numbers be there you'd be like, man, I kind of had,
you know, fortunate situations, right, But then I had the numbers.
But then the players I seem to give up were more.
And it's not all about what you do good to us,
it's about what you give up. Like I could have
(29:15):
six picks and I gave up. I didn't say, I
think I gave up one touchdown and I don't want
I don't want to give up no touchdowns to no
night ends, no years, and I gave up one, and
I was hot.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I was like, man, I'm doing no.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But that's that's another thing about that year, twenty thirteen year,
we had two dudes for Defensive Player of the year,
got votes for Defensive Player to the Year. I got
I got votes, and Earl got votes for defensive Player
of the Year because I had eight books and I
was strapping. And that was another thing. In the playoffs,
I know you said, y'all made plays to win those games.
(29:48):
In the playoffs. We started the NFC Championship game, guess
what the offense did. He turned the ball of Russ
fumble first played the game, and again, like you just said,
it's in their territory. First play of the game adversity,
we hold them to a field goal, they go up
ten oh. In that game, they go up ten oh,
and they up ten oh for a decent part of
(30:09):
that game. Marshan ended up breaking out scoring hitting US seven.
We get three cool. It's it's three oh. In the
fourth quarter of that game, every time they touched the ball,
we took it.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
This is no no. We played.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
We played the Saints and Divisional. We played in the
NFC Championship, and they they they dropped back. This is
the beginning of the third They dropped back. Cliff Ever,
I believe forces a fumble, might be ben it picks
it up, runs it to the five. Yeah, offense gets
no points, no points from the five, got no points.
(30:48):
They turned it over, turned it over on downs from
the five. A couple of plays later, Cam picks it
off in the in the in the flats from the thirty.
I think our offense scored after that on a on
a on a free play on fourth down.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's like fourth and eleven. Free play they got.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
They got San Francisco to jump, because we gotta remember
San Francisco had some dogs. They had Navarro, they had
Pat Willis, they had justin they had. They had some
guys they had that was going that it was one
of the best defenses in the league. Sure, and we
got a free play. He hit curves for a touchdown. Cool,
we got a touchdown. Then the last drive of the
game is when I tip it to Malcolm, Malcolm pick
(31:25):
it off in that game. Those are the three drives
they had in the Super Bowl. That's that's the kind
of defense we was playing. So it wasn't like, man,
we we getting you know, we we having these relaxed
games and we just chilling and we just like we
having to show up and dominate to give us a chance.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
If we don't stop and if I give up that
touchdown right there, we lose. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Like now, even after all everything we did in that game,
we lose that game. And so it's literally clutch play
after clutch play after clutch play. And it happened throughout
the season. We had many games where it was like, hey,
pick six to bring us back.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
We losing.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
We losing in Houston with two minutes to go, they're
at midfield, third and four, shop, I want.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
To do a half boot, trying to throw it to
the flat.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
We run a fire zone like palms concept and we
invert out of cover three and I jumped down the
palms picked six fifty yards twenty one up to bring
us back in.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It's plays like that all season where your best players
is making the big time plays. And I feel like
y'all did the same thing. I feel like Von had
the plays. I mean the AFC Championship in Super Bowl
for Vaughn. That boy, that boy was played. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Look, he played so well, especially those last two games.
Like I'm not gonna say only but when I looked
at I had to go back and look when we
just going over a lot of this stuff, and he
had eleven and a half sex regular season, right, I
was thinking he had at least fifteen, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Like just the way that playoff run. And so I went,
I'm like, he only had eleven and a half sex.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Like I told you about fifty sacks during the regular season,
the way he was playing in the playoffs, and I look, man,
we both turned up as far as turnovers in the playoffs,
Like you said, defensive, you guys had eight.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
We had seven.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Right, just when you're back against the wall in situations
and the biggest moments, the biggest moments of the season.
What do you do? What happens, and what do you do?
Do you get the ball back? Do you get a
big stop?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
How do you react to being uncomfortable in urgent situations?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Right?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
And that's what we did, both of us defenses. Wise,
like you said, things may not always go right in
the way you want them, and a lot of shit
be unexpected.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
You may get a turnover, get you right back on
the field. God damn, we just got the ball. You
can't even sit down on this big for a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
But you know, I will say that, no, like I said,
you guys eight to our seven the offenses we played,
and like we talked about, you know, and this one
more point the points per.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Play, then I'm gonna have to go in our favorite.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
It's not by much, but our yards per play was
four point three nine.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
You know what, you guys were four point four.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Right over right behind us.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
At four point four man, So you know, nonetheless, man,
I enjoy watching y'all play. I enjoy watching y'all do
y'all whole thing, like Cam, my dog, earl and my
dog Man.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I talked to Cam more.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
And then I talked to a lot of guys on
our defense, right, just through Instagram or what not, checking
on you know, everybody's well being.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
You know, me, Earl CA and yourself.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
We all came out the same draft class, so we've
had eyes on each other for a long time, right,
just checking each other's game and just seeing you guys
do what you did in Seattle. It motivated not only
the whole league, right because in football, it's always looked
(35:21):
at it as an offensive game, right. Offense sales the tickets.
Offense is who gets paid first. You know, Offense is
the first child, you know most of the time, right,
they or the baby, whatever you want to whoever gets
treated better. But we all know defense wins championships and
(35:41):
without that defense, man, you're knock on win nothing.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Exactly, yeah, exactly, And that's what I want to say
about y'all too.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
We had a lot of you. Just as a defensive player,
you admire great defense. And we played Carolina that twenty
fifteen years He had some issues early in the game,
and you know, some things happened, but but they Jay
Stu had had a good game and we lost that Jay.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
We watched Jay Stew was killing man. He was a
hard tackle. Man. I had he. I had him in college.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Man, you played to get see so man, look when
he came in.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I was like, what the fuck is this? Bro?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I remember coming to autin my freshman year at Stanford
and I wasn't expected to play. This was two thy eleven.
Oh no, no, two thousand and six, sorry, two thousand
and six. In two thousand and six, we come in
to Auton and I've never been there, you know what
I mean. I'm just a kid from Compton trying to
try to figure it out. Y'all came out there with
(36:44):
with you, Pat Chung, Walter Thurman and Bird I think
was at the other corner.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
And boy, when I tell you.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Y'all told us up and down that field and Jay
stew Our best player was our safety.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Brandon Harrison.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
He was a big dude, like like two thirty, you know,
six two supposed to be League bounds, supposed to be
and he killing us in training camp. So I'm like, boy,
this boy is nice.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
All you know is yeah, Jay Stu got up that sideline,
grabbed him by his face, mask yump to the ground
and just got out of there. I said, it's real
out here. His voice is real. They legitimate.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I gotta, I gotta.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
You know, when your head dog, when your main dog
get dog down, you you you in for a long day.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
He just did that to Demo God dog dog.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
That's funny as hell. That's funny as hey. We got
some breaking news. It looks like the Kansas City Chiefs
just traded Trip mcduffeat to the Rams or first round pick,
fifth round pick, sixth round pick, a third round pick
for twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Like Christmas list. God damn, the Santa Claus came with that. Man.
That's wow. Wow. NFC West right now, NFC West is
an arms rate.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
It is last year. They was cooking last year. I
said they was the best division in football. And I
know the Rams are losing Kobe Durant, which was probably
their best corner. Like that boy was out there making plays.
He going to free agency and they, I mean, that
was a knot on the on the Rams this year.
Was that secondary right, They had Forbes out there.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
He had an up and down season.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
You know, Kobe Durant was holding it down as far
as turnovers, but they gave up a lot of players
especially to you guys, man, and crucial clutch plays and
clutch moments. So we just talked about your defense what
they have to do in the bigger moments of the game.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Man, What do you think about this? Man, Sean, I
think this.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I low key feel like that the rams got laced
because I don't know about a corner getting that much
of a haul like a first, like a first round
pick for him would have made sense. So you just said, okay,
first round, but they gave a fifth, sixth in a
third from next year, like that just seems like a lot.
And it seems like on the chief side, they might
be going into rebuild mode. They might be feeling like, hey,
(39:29):
this is gonna be a throwaway year because they don't
know when Pat Mahomes is going to be back. You know,
he's coming off the ACL. You don't know how quickly
that's gonna heal. Is he going to be back mid season?
Is he gonna be back late be back late season?
I don't know. And so giving up your best corner
seems like in getting draft picks for it seems like, hey,
(39:51):
we're just investing in the future and we don't want
to keep paying high value corners and save a little
bit of money, so they may be able to retain
I mean, I guess maybe retain Chris Jones and some
of the other guys that they have. But for the Rams,
it makes sense, like for the reasons you said they're
they're losing Forbes, they got a great front and Jared
Vers and Biring Young and Braydon Fisk. Landman's a good linebacker,
(40:14):
so they feel good about their front, but they need
to secure that back in if they're gonna keep competing
with the Seattle Seahawks and the San Francisco forty nine ers.
That that division, everybody had ten wins and everybody was
you know, two of them more. In the NFC Championship game,
the Niners got put out by the Seahawks in a
divisional But they're gonna get healthier this year. They're gonna
(40:35):
get all their best players back. For Ed Warner's coming back,
Nick nick Bose is coming back. It's some up in
the air stuff about Trent Williams, but I would assume
he's coming back, and them at full strength is as
good as any team in this league. So it's gonna
be fun to watch.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I think, honestly, I think
the Chiefs won this one, especially with that third, with
that charity on the top. My thing is the turnovers
right from your number one corner to last year or
one last year, two, the.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Year before, zero, the years.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
And I really see Trent as an inside nickel, right,
he can play the outside, but last year seemed that
he got picked on a little bit out there when
he was at the number one, especially against bigger receivers.
And that was just me looking at as many games
as I've watched. Of course I didn't watch every game,
but I watched a lot of the Chiefs games, especially
(41:27):
them being you know AFC West, right, you pay attention
to that.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
When you watching the Broncos.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
So a first rounder, like you said, cool, maybe another
late rounder, but then another late rounder and the third man,
ah Man, big Red Andy Reid.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I think they won that one.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
And knowing that they like to develop through the draft,
it gives them another opportunity to bring a younger player in,
maybe an ideal player that they may want to get
in free agency, but.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Hey, let's not spend the money. Let's get this.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Type of player in the draft for the lo and
develop him and we could pay. Our big horse who
pretty much makes everything happen is Chris Jones, right like,
you better keep him if you want to upset Chris Jones.
I would dare to say the best player in football defense,
right man, I would look.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Not far from I don't think they win any of
those Super Bowls without him, No, absolutely, And that's my
personal opinion. I know he had a down year this year.
I think he would he would admit that, he would
say it. The tape says it. And I think people
are so down on him, especially you hear Kansas City
Chiefs fans like man.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Get rid of him, get rid of him.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
People have down years, guys, But when he's on in
twenty three, in nineteen and twenty, like a lot of
those years, y'all won super Bowls. He was the reason
he won him that super Bowl in twenty three nineteen.
He had an incredible year. She had an impactful game
that season in the Super Bowl, and I'm not sure
(42:58):
they win it without him. So again, as you said,
keep him happy, keep and maybe surround him with more talent,
like more d Lin talent. You know, pass rush wins
games in this league. Pass rush. You got to have it,
and I think it showed up in the AFC side
because of what Houston's doing with Danil Hunter and Will Anderson. Uh,
what what Denver's doing with with Benito and Cooper and
(43:22):
those boys, and even interior they got interior all pro
uh and uh Zach Zach Allen. Yeah, yeah, who's Who's
Who's freaking phenomenal. But a great pass rush gets you,
gives you a chance, you know, and as you said earlier,
pass rush and coverage work together.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah, I like, I think, I like especially, I think
this draft has an abundance of pass rushers that you
can get laid after those early guys go right after
the banns Uh, he'll probably maybe you know the boys
at Ohio State, they can change the defense. Right Our
guy is at the text the Red Raiders, he's I
(44:02):
think he'll be the first defensive guy gone. But then
you got a group of long outside corners that are
coming out of this draft this year.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
So man, it's gonna be interesting to see.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
It's gonna be very interesting to see how they installed
McDuffie in that Rams defense, and really, what responsibility do
they have. Do they have them playing more inside? Do
they have somebody that they picture to play outside or
they gonna line them up immediately at number one on
your best receiver.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, I'm interested to see that too. And we've had
those conversations before about you know, shadowing the number one receiver?
And is that the most valuable thing to do? Is
that the smartest thing for a defense to do? And
I think it's situational, you know, I don't think it's
something you do every week, because not every week you
got a true number one that's that impactful, that's getting
one hundred and fifty targets. You know, if you looked
(44:54):
at this Super Bowl and said, hey, you're playing the Patriots.
Are you playing the Seahawks? You say, oh, man, if
you the Patriots, you're following JSN. But then JSN goes
out early in that game and you're like, okay, so
who do you follow?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Now?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Here's nobody else worth worth following or dictating your defense
like that, So it kind of kills the point of it.
And on the other side, if you're playing the Patriots,
who you who you following with number one? Kashawan, Boody
Douglas is digs the guy, you know what I mean?
None of them are getting those kind of targets or
that kind of focus for you to say, hey, we
need to designate our defense to focus on this guy
(45:29):
and put our best player, uh and and kind of
tilt our defense that way.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
In my opinion, Yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Just brought up a something I was. You made me
realize Tarique wooling up. You know, you could probably get
him for a cheaper price than he was worth for
two years ago. So I mean, it's a lot of
free agent corners out there as well. I don't know
if I like this by the Rams. I really don't know,
but hey, I could they you know McVeigh, great head coach,
you can prove me wrong.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Right right, do your thing.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
They might just put out a stat they've traded every
first round pick for the last ten years. Really, Yeah,
twenty seventeen traded traded their pick to the Titans, twenty eighteen,
traded their pick to the Patriots, twenty nineteen to the Falcons,
twenty twenty to the Jags, twenty twenty one to the Jags,
(46:19):
twenty twenty two to the Lions, twenty three to the
Lions twenty four they drafted Jared Verse.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
So my bad, it wasn't all the whole ten year.
That's a lot. They always in the wind now seemed
like if you're getting up.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Your first round picks, I got Matt back here. I'm
in the win now until he retired at it ain't
no way until later. We're trying to win every Super
Bowl this year. So that's a good I mean, that's
a good place to be in. That's a great place
to be in. That's a great place to be. You
feel like you always got a chance. And Matt is
one of them.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Dudes, man, for real, for real, he definitely is MVP.
Hey can't argue that.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
But but we had a lot of respect for y'all
in what y'all did and y'all defense. And you know,
we go back for if it's all fun because we
just pride for players and we play.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
You played at a high level, and we played.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
At a high level, and everybody wants to be the
best and take pride in what they did. But as
you just said, defensive players can appreciate just great defense
being played, you know, And I love it even nowadays
when I see like the Seahawks defense and what they
did to the Patriots in the in the Super Bowl
and anytime there's a great defense. I loved what Denver
was doing all year, you know that what they had
(47:26):
going and uh and certain in them boys in Houston
with them boys in Houston on it's crazy young boys
is playing good football.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
So it's it's great to see that.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Man.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Maybe you and me could collab more because I enjoyed this. Yeah,
joy seeing you getting getting the talk ball.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Nah, definitely we we gotta do it again, man, Like
you said, Uh, great collaboration.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
I'm glad we got to do this. Man. Always a
pleasure talking to you. Man.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Hey, we gonna leave it up to y'all, and y'all
argue amongst yourself.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Man, it's no.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Flies on leasion the bull. Who's your number one defensive
all time? Leave it in the comments for show. Don't
forget to watch Richard Sherman's show, Watch Safety First Show
we on YouTube, Instagram, all that, man, leave it in
the comments.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
And as always, we appreciate you joining us. You could
be anywhere in the world, but you're here with us
and we surely do appreciate it. As he said, catch
the Safety First podcast or the Richard Sherman podcast, both
on YouTube. We obviously collabin right here, but thank you
guys for joining.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Appreciate you
And we're back all off season long. We're gonna give
you a free agency, NFL draft and everything else that's
going on in this incredible NFL off season. Stick with us.
Be here, hit that sub button if you're new, and
also notification game so you can be notified when everything's
(00:21):
going down. Appreciate you. Welcome back to the Richard Sherman Podcast.
And today we got an incredible guest, TJ Ward, former
Daylight Soile High School, former Oregon Duck, all Pro for
(00:46):
the Cleveland Browns, former Denver Broncos.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I mean you've been everywhere, TJ. Brother. Appreciate you joining me.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Hey man, no doubt. Thanks for having me, Sharon. Man,
it's a pleasure. Great seeing you doing your thing on
every platform.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Man, trying to up. Man, I'm trying to catch up.
I appreciate you coming on. Brother, I see you grind it,
got your own part, doing your thing. It's gonna be
a fun discussion, man.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Man, I can't wait always is man.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I tell people all the time. Man, we go back
to college when we was battling on Rainbow six on
the PlayStation two back in the day. Man, take me back, man,
we used to be man, good time good tide. Man,
it seemed like it seemed like forever ago. But man,
none the less man. Glad to be here, Glad to
be here. Yeah, so let's commence with the show. Let's
(01:32):
commence with the show. Man. It's been a few weeks
since we've been kind of going back and forth on
our opinions about our great defenses. And let's get that understood. First, Man,
we both played for two of the greatest defenses ever. Right,
that's an honor and a privilege. And I know you
feel how I feel about my defense and my secondary,
(01:56):
and you feel how you feel about your defense and
your secondary. But nonetheless, man, a handful of amazing players
on both ends. But we must figure out who's number
one in.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The debate, right, we gotta we gotta figure that out.
It's it's gonna be a fun debate. I can't wait
to sift through it line by line and figure it out.
Because leave leap leaving, uh and Skip just wanted to
start some stuff. That's what it was. Leave and Skip
just wanted to start some No, and I said, and
I love leave to death. Lee was with us on
(02:31):
Amazon at first, and then things you know, didn't didn't
situate like like they should have and didn't work out.
But he's doing a great job with Skip. But I
was like when he when he said it, I was like,
I mean, I want to be with you, Lee, but
everybody gonna say I said I told somebody else this.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
They were like, man, he said he was better than you.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
He said, I said, you ain't gonna find a corner
in this world that don't say they the best. Yeah,
and and rightfully so like Leeve was nice too, and
people don't give Leave enough credit. Lee was like that,
like that you're talking about ten pick sixes, Leave strapping.
He talking crazy. If it wasn't for the off the
field stuff, they would talk about Leave so much differently.
And that's what I tell people all the time. Lee
(03:10):
played at a high level. But then he said the
whole the Hey, the secondary was better and he would
have been the best on both secondaries.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
And I was like, leave now now alone.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Now we had some guys over there, now leave, Yeah
we could play.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What episode was that was that?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I was wondering because people was like asked me, like, like,
where did this come from? I'm like maybe it was
something on the grid on or when we did the
top of on me and Leave had did like a
TikTok cut or something we had named the top defenses,
right I had you guys?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Was that it no, no, no, this was Leave and
Skip and it was on it was on their show,
their their show, and you know, Skip Skip trying to
start stuff. Skip's like, you know, I thought I thought
you were better than sir. I just thought you were better,
you know, like, and it's fine. But then Lee started
(04:09):
to speak about the two secondaries and said, you know,
speaking about himself, and and you know how you know,
if he had to be if he had to say anything,
he taking him all day, either secondary, either anybody in
either secondary. I'm taking me. I'm the best player and
on either secondary. And I was like, okay, leave, like
we'll we'll go. And then he was like, no, flies
(04:30):
on and what y'all did, and how people would prefer
to watch y'all and if if if he had to
pick which secondary was better, he would say, y'all secondary
was better.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And I was like, okay, leave, Now I gotta say something.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I gotta say, yeah, yeah, I gotta saying.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
He said, like our defense was sexier, right, and I'm sexier.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Would be the word I would use I would just
be more. We were more.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I would say, just more in your face style, right.
We we had to play man. We was pressing all
the time. We blitched a lot are We had two
of the best pass rushers ever to play the game,
the Marcus where And and Von Miller. And you know,
pass rush and secondary goes hand in hand. You know,
(05:15):
whoever gets the creditors, whoever get the credits, We locked
it down on the back end. They get the sacks,
they get the quarterback first, we get the pbu's the
interceptions or the just the sacks, right So, and the
sacks is one thing that I'm going leanto, you know,
not only just the d ns in the in the
in the pressure, but you know it's a secondary status
(05:38):
well because you know, we gotta do what we gotta
do on the back end and a lot occasions to
make those sacks happen.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So and you know, I like to prior myself in
being such a great blitter.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
And I mean I had two sacks that season, you know,
a few pressures, but you know I was always had
to be accounted for in the pass rush, right so
you know, I think we had fifty two sacks that year,
fifty two sacks that year. Just going over the quick basis, right,
you guys had, you know, points per game. You got
(06:10):
us fourteen point four our eighteen point five total yards.
Y'all had us two seventy three to two eighty three
our twenty seven takeaways to y'all thirty nine our fourteen
picks to your twenty eight picks. Right, Hey, when you
look at that, y'all got it right. But the only
thing that I would eject in those stats, and I say,
(06:36):
you know how many times we had to.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Go on the field because of our giveaways? Right.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You don't like to say what the offense, You know,
how the offense attributes to great defense. But I have
to say that that matters, Sam, and I have to
say that matters just because.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It is what it is.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Right, It's a fact like when you hit the field
more when you have to play a certain style of
defense to not only push opposing offenses out of scoring range,
but you play a style that we have to get
(07:15):
what we have to get right now, Like we don't
have the time to or the luxury to trap offenses. Right,
you guys had a lot of turnovers, not that we
can't deny that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
We can't deny that, but.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I feel that you guys had the luxury provided by
your offense not turning the ball over.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And I'm not trying to down.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Our offense like that because you know, I always say
this in every interview, when we needed something from our offense,
whether it was a last drive, whether it was a
touchdown or first down, they came through in critical moments.
So they did what they had to do in those instances.
But like thirty one, I think it was thirty one
turnovers to Seattle twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Seattle Seahawks was nineteen.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Which was the fourth fewest, and ours were the fourth
the fourth highest.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
But that's see, that's where I'm gonna go. I'll accept
what you're arguing, but I will I will raise you.
Did you have you ever heard of a two thousand
Baltimore Ravens. I have you know who played quarterback for
them for that season? I do, and I'm glad you
brought that up.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
But finish it.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah it was Trent Dilferd believe right, and Trent deal
for for half the year and Tony Banks for Tony
Banks for half the season.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, correct, Yeah, it wasn't not scoring a lot of
not scoring a lot of talents.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
But what they did do they protected the football. Yeah,
they were.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
They had the nineteen interceptions between they had how many interceptions?
Nineteen nineteen picks, but they didn't have I think they
only had four fumbles. They were like the number one
in the league in protecting the football, running the.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Ball right, maybe maybe running the football, but they had nineteen.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
And so let's let's put them at twenty two turnovers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Mhm. I mean that's not thirty one. This is a
whole this is a whole different league.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
But what I yeah, I'm saying is in this, in
this situation, we're we're saying, y'all, y'all, they they had
we had nineteen, y'all had thirty one. We also added
twelve takeaways, so we gave them twelve more possessions. We
gave them twelve more possessions. And I would and I would,
I would argue because I want to. I'm gonna clear
this missnover up because I get tired of people saying,
(09:42):
y'all just setting zone all day like that boy on
third down. We and man, just like everybody else, everybody
in the National Football league, third and five, three to
maybe seven eight, just about everybody playing man. After that,
it might go zone. You might go a little, you know,
third and ten plus, you might go loose. Two, you
(10:03):
might go three. You might go a lot of stuff.
But third and five we and.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Man of man.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
We and man of man, and we played man just
and we played press. And anytime you didn't have a
number two to receive it, your side and you that corner,
you and man, you and man, you got him. If
he go up top, that's you. If he won a dig,
that's you. If he won us slant, that's you. If
he catch that rock, that's on you. But so I
want to I want to give that. And we were
as in your face talk shit as anybody in the league.
(10:30):
We taking the ball, talking crazy, talking record. I mean
in the Super Bowl he was talking reckless to Peyton
and all in boys because we didn't like we didn't
like how they how they was talking. Uh in the
media that week. I mean you talk about the ship
up said at the Crabtree in the NFC Championship it
was and we was talking, yeah, we was talking cash yeah,
and we running and hitting. We went in hitting, y'all
(10:52):
was running and hitting. Two you and Darien y'all was
back there smacking. Yeah, everybody know what Cam didn't done.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's legendary.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Earl was out there hitting, and then we can we
can go through the front. I wanted, I wanted to
keep it in the secondary for a second, but y'all,
y'all had the two Hall of famers up front.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
We had.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
We had Chris Clemens was was a great rusher. Our
starters were at end where Red Bryant and Chris Clemens.
Then me bang some dogs April Red and me bang
some dogs. Big dogs. Yeah, big dogs, big dogs. Mike
b and Cliff the year we won the Super Bowl
(11:30):
were rotate and that was the first year they got there.
They weren't even starters yet. They didn't start till the
next year. And that's what Bob people don't understand. That's
how deep the d line was. Them two dudes was
probably our best rushers, I mean, our best rushers.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, and they didn't even start. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Shit, we had you know, Shaq Beard coming off and
in first round pick Shane Ray, Shane Ray was coming off,
and then you know, inside, I think it was probably
our most underrated part was Dereck Wolf and Leik Jackson
and Slim that's the Selvester Williams two inside, then them
three on a rotation.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Especially in past Russ situations.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I felt were, you know, three of the best interior
pass rushers in the game at that point, right.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
But see that's why I get. I get I kept
it with the secondary for him because I was like,
if we talked Secretary Lee, this is this is not
going to be the discussion you think it is, because
I feel like we we took the ball away at
a high level.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Even Byron.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Maxwell had four interceptions, Earl had five. H I believe
Cam had three, yeah, and then I had eight.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah, I mean Cam had yeah, Cam had three, Max
had four, Earl had five. But you gotta that's to
the that's to the cover three man. You guys always
had eyes on the ball.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
And but but what what I'm saying is I had
I had four of them in man. So that's what
I'm saying, Like, it's I could I could, I could
listen to the cover three thing, but I could say
we played a lot of man too when we needed to.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
We need to really strap down.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
We strapped, especially when we're playing San Francisco because theydn'td
have no receivers like that. We're like, hey, press, everybody, press, we.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Man, they ain't had no receivers, then they ain't had
no quarterback all due respect, I mean, Colin cap you
should have seen.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
What we did to that boy the year right four.
You know who did have a quarterback, The Broncos. They
had a quarterback who set the record for touchdown passes
with fifty five yeah, and fifty five hundred or three
hundred yards, and we strapped them up too, strapped them up.
I think that shit.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I think honestly, I think that game got out of
hand early.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You know, they snapped the.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Ball over for the safety and your offense was scoring
at will on them boys, they wasn't.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Our offense scored like two touchdowns, Like our offense didn't
score until like the second quarter.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Like y'all had the Malcolm Malcolm my dog mouth shout out,
Mount had his interception.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
What was that the third quarter for the touchdown. Yeah,
it didn't get out of hand till the second half.
Like it was a close game unt until the second half.
I think it was eight to nothing until middle of
the second or middle of the and I think that
might have been our first touchdown from our offense.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And it was fifteen.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Oh yeah, Like they didn't get out of hand until
late we start punishing it, punishing them. But a lot
of that game happened because we watched the tape of
them boys.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And I love.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
The Marius and what he did and Decker and Welker
and all the boys. But when we watched him on tape,
people was just getting tired. Like that was the big
thing from that game. Like we were watching them and
watching him beat beat the heck out of everybody, and
everybody was just getting tired. They was running simple stuff.
They was running like day one, day two install of
(14:40):
training camp. Like it wasn't like they was running some
complicated They running drive, basic, slat flat, curl flat, like
simple stuff TJ.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But everybody was.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
They was getting to the line quick, people trying to adjust,
people trying to check people ain't lined up, and they
just efficient.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
It was a speed offense, but that that running game.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
The thing I say.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
They scored a lot of points, like you said, because
you know they were they were on the ball, very
high tempo offense, like a Chip Kelly offense almost in
the League, right, they could not run the ball, so
expecting anything but past. You know, I think who was
the running back they had that year. It wasn't no Sean.
(15:24):
It was ball, money ball. It was money ball. It
might have been a combos, a couple of people. But yeah, yeah,
but yeah. But also we're gonna flip it and go
to the Broncos defenses that year, right once they got
all them injuries out the way.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Von Miller didn't play in that game. Chris Harrison didn't
play in that game.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Derek Wolf didn't play in that game. Uh, who else
didn't playing that game? Kevin Vickerson didn't play in that game?
Raheem more than playing that game. Would you not say
that your offense really controlled the ball that game and
really went up up and down the field with no
(16:09):
turnovers against that Broncos.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I would not. I would tell you to watch the game.
I would tell you they had a couple three and
outs early in that game. They were not doing well.
They were not moving the balls particularly well. We got
held to three points multiple drives early on, like they
were getting held to three point three point like it
was eight to ozer because they we had two field
goals in a safety like, but I would say our offense,
(16:33):
I mean rush through for two touchdowns, I think two
hundred yards. Like, it wasn't a crazy, crazy game for
him by any stretch of imagination. You know what it
was Percy. Percy had a return touchdown, Yeah, that was
We had a defensive touchdown. We had a two point conversion.
So that's that's that's sixteen, So sixteen of the forty three,
So that's you know what I mean. Like then the
(16:56):
rest of the offense, I think Marshawn might have had
two tugs. Like, But what I'm saying is in this,
in this general in this defensive discussion, if we're talking
about who played the game like we played it, we
played within the circumstances you given. You you you given
the circumstances you're given, and you played within them and
the circumstances we were given. We played Drew Brees before
(17:18):
we played CAP. We played Drew Brees and guess what,
he had thirty nine touchdowns, five thousand yards to twelve
interceptions that season. When we played Drew in the division,
we told him up. We told him up, like Drew,
you got to go. And that's what we did to
just about everybody who stepped in front of us. So
it's we're not gonna sit here and be like, man, y'all,
who did y'all play like?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I don't know. Yeah, we just got a jacket.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
We had, We had can boys to they They was
pretty prolific that year in offense. Number one in offense
and I think number two in Russian offense something like that.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And now you've seen the game. He couldn't do nothing
at all, right, but he's still throw for two forty
and that was garbage time.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
The game was over, you know, the game was over
by the end. He really we really would have shut
him out. I mean, they scored a touch I can't
say that. If you get the ball in your territory
and you don't hold the offense to three points, then
you fail. That's off feel, right, even if even if
they get the ball in your territory, your job is
a whole them and field go range. And we let
(18:22):
Stuke get a touchdown. So I'm not gonna say we
wouldn't shut him out or nothing. But you know, the
ten the ten points that they did have, you know,
one was from that touchdown for Stu and one was
later in the game.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
But nonetheless.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Go ahead, you know, Cam Newton MVP, and they defense
went out there and made us turn the ball over
another two times, right that defense. Luke Keigley going in
the hall this year. I just seen Luke at the combine.
Funny story going in the elevator after that later, but he.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Just walked in the elevator.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
You press the button, look up Louke Keigley. It's the
second time I ran into him on some crazy ship
like that. But anyway, defense was stacked two interceptions on
the side.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I think overall we played a better team than y'all.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, but nobody would say that, Like if you say,
if your argument is the the.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
With with with Brown and whoever.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
They had a receiver that year for Carolina, Like nobody
can start in the league. You could take Greg Olsen,
but nobody who would start in the league for any
other team.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Carolina again was smoking that year. I'm not saying he
had number one. He's not a certified number one. They
had Hollywood Brown, I forget.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It, but they had a good three man.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Greg Olsen debataball Hall of Famery was strapped all games,
strapped him up like some l A gears.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
But uh, the running game I think was that that
three headed j Stell.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
The other fullback, and Cam Newton was probably the most
potent threat for sure, for sure the most.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
But but you're not. But that's what I'm saying, teacher,
That's what I'm saying. It's we arguing things that cannot
be argued, because the twenty fifteen Broncos are the most
prolific offense in the NFL's history, not not just the
NFL's history, the playoffs too. They were still killing it.
And that's like, and what I'm go ahead. What they're
(20:35):
saying is if we if we ain't talking regular season,
what the are we talking about? Like, that's what records
are broken. That's when they're they're figured. They were killing
throughout the playoffs. So let's let's not think, oh, they
weren't scoring big points throughout the playoffs. They just didn't
get to that super Bowl and score points because of us.
They just ran into an immovable object. But they were
doing it all season long. They set records that the
(20:57):
Carolina Pansers didn't set no records.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
They didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
They don't got no players that you can remember outside
of Jay Stewart Cam Newton. It was Cam Newton and
the Boys. The defense was the was the strength of
that team, the the Denver Broncos. The offense was one
of the great there's still records that have not been
touched at that that that team had. They had three
was it four thousand yard receivers? Because nah, no, they
(21:22):
had at least three. They had at least that. The
tight end was a thousand both receivers. Decker and I
think I think Wes Welker was like nine hundred. So
you're talking about That's what I'm saying. The numbers were
that crazy. And they had eight points, and they had
eight points in garbage time because the Marrius just was relentless.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
The Marryus was not gonna go out of there without
a fight.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Man, my boy, long live, long live. But but that's
what I'm saying. I'm saying we took the football away
at a high level. And you can call it cover three.
But the reason we played cover three was because we
had such smart individuals. Like imagine going into a game
and knowing, hey, all right, if we can see them bang,
(22:04):
we know what plays they gonna run, we know what
concepts they're gonna run.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Hey, I need you here, I need you here. Hey,
you you shift this way. Hey. They know what we're in.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So we're gonna bastardize it like this, and we're gonna
force the ball here and we're gonna book them, like
that's why we bring this so that we can we
can play to the strengths of our players, play to
the intelligence and the IQ of our players and take
the football away that manytimes, that's why we that's why
we killed everybody. Like the big play where Cam hit
the Marus, that was one robber. Yeah, that was one robber.
Cam robbed in the middle of the field and was
(22:33):
coming down. They ran a man beater a pick you know,
crossers and Cam said like like, and that's early in
the game. So again we're playing man on that play.
That's man one robber. But we were we were playing
to the strengths of our players visual like and man
as you know, you ain't you can't look, you can't
really play to concepts and all that. You gotta like, Hey,
(22:54):
I'm I gotta get to here, get to my leverage,
like hands on staying his hit, like I might chance
to glance if I read throughout early now, But it's
harder to get interceptions. So that's why you rarely have
these teams that are playing so much men coverage go
to the Super Bowl. Like That's why in the last
probably ten years, you look at every Super Bowl champion
(23:15):
and what they playing on defense, and I mean every
NFL team, nobody's playing more than thirty percent man. Even
in Broncos this year, who were living in Man van
Joseph Hatton Boys and Man all time, it was like
thirty one percent.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, But I think that just makes us even more
special because we did go to the Super Bowl and
we did dominate every team we played defensively. If you
look back at our schedule and you look at the
way we won every game, it was a defensive play
to win the game, whether it was a force turnover,
an interception of fumble for scoop and score a fumble
(23:50):
or interception backed up, if it's a sack to push
another team out of field goal range. Not every game,
but most games was a play like that to win
the game and to.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Go into like your cover three. We only ran cover
three on third and long.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
We had a three buzz, but outside of that our
zones were zone man's cover eight right quarters one, cover
quarters two, cover six, reverse quarters two right. That takes
when you're running multiple defenses and to be as cohesive
as we were, and to communicate the things we did running,
(24:29):
whether it was a fire zone, a zone man or man.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Robber, all that.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
When you have all these accumulations of defense and you
still are able to communicate across the board and get
things done, and that says another thing about your secondary
and your defensive intelligence as well.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
No question about that, now, no question about that. It
takes intelligence, especially safeties, because y'all got to get everybody
lined up, and you got to get everybody moved, and
you got to know where to drop and where to
play and all these crazy blitzes. But it takes. It
takes some cajone's to say, hey, we're gonna run. We're
gonna run three fourth things. We're gonna run, man, we're
gonna run three occasional fire zone and we're gonna line
(25:10):
up and you ain't gonna know nothing about it.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
I'm curious about what do you think your percentage of
you know, I know that was your your home defense, right,
what a percentage would you say you ran at above
all of the defenses.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And it's just a curious question. Yeah, all defenses, the three.
It just depends on what you if what you're talking about,
because if you look at the league right now, everybody
runs Cover three at about fifty percent everybody because it's
eight box and it's and it's your first down defense.
Everybody's eight bocks first down against the run. And so
that's what a lot of times it be in because
(25:45):
we're playing it against the run. We're playing base cover
three against whatever base personnel twenty one or twelve.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So if you above the rest of the league, Oh.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
No, I'm not saying above the rest of the league.
I'm saying pop just within your team, like compared to
like your cover ones and your would it be like
fifty percent Cover three, fifty percent every all other defenses?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Right, we probably be twenty four to twenty five percent man,
we probably be fifty percent Cover three. We probably be
like ten percent Cover two, maybe ten percent fire zone three,
something like that.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Okay, Okay, I say we was probably like we was
probably like forty percent man, thirty percent a quarter style defense,
right whether it was six eight or straight up quarters.
We probably did that thirty percent, probably another twenty percent
(26:52):
I'll say ten to fifteen percent a fire zone, maybe
ten more like ten percent fire zone, and then another
ten to fifteen paying cover three D just because we
ran that a lot on third down, you know, third
and long, third and long.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
What Schwartz in Cleveland with you?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Nah?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I didn't have Schwartz, I didn't have Sworts. Who'd you
got I had?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
My first year, we had man Jeanie. It was Rob Ryant,
which was great. Rob Ryan was great defense all over
the plays right the name of it. It could be anything.
Then I had Dick Geron, who I came from Green
Bay and he ran We ran more of a four
to three style where strong safety. I was setting a
lot of edges. I was playing like a damn outside linebacker.
(27:38):
It was probably like the worst. And I always say
that I broke my foot that year because I was
forcing so much shit inside. My second year and halfway
through the season, my foot just snapped on me. And
then I came back. The third year was Dick Geron again.
I don't even remember that year too much. I think
I got a pretty good year of DC. But my
fourth year and probably my favorite defense was Ray Horden,
(27:59):
Ray Horden came Pastsburg. I love that defense. I wish
I could have played in his defense my whole career.
And I don't know what happened to him after that season.
I think he man went to Arizona for a little bit,
or he was in Arizona before. But that was one
of my favorite defense along with Wade Phillips.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And then when we got.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
To Denver, we had we had Jack fit for that year.
That first year we had Jack. And the only thing
is I didn't like about that defense. It was like
it was like a three man concept right to the
line to tighten and if I want to play man,
let me play man.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Let me go get him and take him.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
It was like a man where if the tight ends
went over the linebackers, then you take him, and if
he don't, then it's like a little discrepancy there. And
a lot of times I was ended up chasing guys
laid across the field because the linebackers. It's great, you know,
because it's great, so great, and I'm with Pro Bowl
that you actually had some great numbers, but I just
(28:55):
didn't feel, you know, to yourself. Sometimes you had the
numbers be there you'd be like, man, I kind of had,
you know, fortunate situations, right, But then I had the numbers.
But then the players I seem to give up were more.
And it's not all about what you do good to us,
it's about what you give up. Like I could have
(29:15):
six picks and I gave up. I didn't say, I
think I gave up one touchdown and I don't want
I don't want to give up no touchdowns to no
night ends, no years, and I gave up one, and
I was hot.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I was like, man, I'm doing no.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But that's that's another thing about that year, twenty thirteen year,
we had two dudes for Defensive Player of the year,
got votes for Defensive Player to the Year. I got
I got votes, and Earl got votes for defensive Player
of the Year because I had eight books and I
was strapping. And that was another thing. In the playoffs,
I know you said, y'all made plays to win those games.
(29:48):
In the playoffs. We started the NFC Championship game, guess
what the offense did. He turned the ball of Russ
fumble first played the game, and again, like you just said,
it's in their territory. First play of the game adversity,
we hold them to a field goal, they go up
ten oh. In that game, they go up ten oh,
and they up ten oh for a decent part of
(30:09):
that game. Marshan ended up breaking out scoring hitting US seven.
We get three cool. It's it's three oh. In the
fourth quarter of that game, every time they touched the ball,
we took it.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
This is no no. We played.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
We played the Saints and Divisional. We played in the
NFC Championship, and they they they dropped back. This is
the beginning of the third They dropped back. Cliff Ever,
I believe forces a fumble, might be ben it picks
it up, runs it to the five. Yeah, offense gets
no points, no points from the five, got no points.
(30:48):
They turned it over, turned it over on downs from
the five. A couple of plays later, Cam picks it
off in the in the in the flats from the thirty.
I think our offense scored after that on a on
a on a free play on fourth down.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's like fourth and eleven. Free play they got.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
They got San Francisco to jump, because we gotta remember
San Francisco had some dogs. They had Navarro, they had
Pat Willis, they had justin they had. They had some
guys they had that was going that it was one
of the best defenses in the league. Sure, and we
got a free play. He hit curves for a touchdown. Cool,
we got a touchdown. Then the last drive of the
game is when I tip it to Malcolm, Malcolm pick
(31:25):
it off in that game. Those are the three drives
they had in the Super Bowl. That's that's the kind
of defense we was playing. So it wasn't like, man,
we we getting you know, we we having these relaxed
games and we just chilling and we just like we
having to show up and dominate to give us a chance.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
If we don't stop and if I give up that
touchdown right there, we lose. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Like now, even after all everything we did in that game,
we lose that game. And so it's literally clutch play
after clutch play after clutch play. And it happened throughout
the season. We had many games where it was like, hey,
pick six to bring us back.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
We losing.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
We losing in Houston with two minutes to go, they're
at midfield, third and four, shop, I want.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
To do a half boot, trying to throw it to
the flat.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
We run a fire zone like palms concept and we
invert out of cover three and I jumped down the
palms picked six fifty yards twenty one up to bring
us back in.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It's plays like that all season where your best players
is making the big time plays. And I feel like
y'all did the same thing. I feel like Von had
the plays. I mean the AFC Championship in Super Bowl
for Vaughn. That boy, that boy was played. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Look, he played so well, especially those last two games.
Like I'm not gonna say only but when I looked
at I had to go back and look when we
just going over a lot of this stuff, and he
had eleven and a half sex regular season, right, I
was thinking he had at least fifteen, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Like just the way that playoff run. And so I went,
I'm like, he only had eleven and a half sex.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Like I told you about fifty sacks during the regular season,
the way he was playing in the playoffs, and I look, man,
we both turned up as far as turnovers in the playoffs,
Like you said, defensive, you guys had eight.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
We had seven.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Right, just when you're back against the wall in situations
and the biggest moments, the biggest moments of the season.
What do you do? What happens, and what do you do?
Do you get the ball back? Do you get a
big stop?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
How do you react to being uncomfortable in urgent situations?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Right?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
And that's what we did, both of us defenses. Wise,
like you said, things may not always go right in
the way you want them, and a lot of shit
be unexpected.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
You may get a turnover, get you right back on
the field. God damn, we just got the ball. You
can't even sit down on this big for a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
But you know, I will say that, no, like I said,
you guys eight to our seven the offenses we played,
and like we talked about, you know, and this one
more point the points per.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Play, then I'm gonna have to go in our favorite.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
It's not by much, but our yards per play was
four point three nine.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
You know what, you guys were four point four.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Right over right behind us.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
At four point four man, So you know, nonetheless, man,
I enjoy watching y'all play. I enjoy watching y'all do
y'all whole thing, like Cam, my dog, earl and my
dog Man.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I talked to Cam more.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
And then I talked to a lot of guys on
our defense, right, just through Instagram or what not, checking
on you know, everybody's well being.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
You know, me, Earl CA and yourself.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
We all came out the same draft class, so we've
had eyes on each other for a long time, right,
just checking each other's game and just seeing you guys
do what you did in Seattle. It motivated not only
the whole league, right because in football, it's always looked
(35:21):
at it as an offensive game, right. Offense sales the tickets.
Offense is who gets paid first. You know, Offense is
the first child, you know most of the time, right,
they or the baby, whatever you want to whoever gets
treated better. But we all know defense wins championships and
(35:41):
without that defense, man, you're knock on win nothing.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Exactly, yeah, exactly, And that's what I want to say
about y'all too.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
We had a lot of you. Just as a defensive player,
you admire great defense. And we played Carolina that twenty
fifteen years He had some issues early in the game,
and you know, some things happened, but but they Jay
Stu had had a good game and we lost that Jay.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
We watched Jay Stew was killing man. He was a
hard tackle. Man. I had he. I had him in college.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Man, you played to get see so man, look when
he came in.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I was like, what the fuck is this? Bro?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I remember coming to autin my freshman year at Stanford
and I wasn't expected to play. This was two thy eleven.
Oh no, no, two thousand and six, sorry, two thousand
and six. In two thousand and six, we come in
to Auton and I've never been there, you know what
I mean. I'm just a kid from Compton trying to
try to figure it out. Y'all came out there with
(36:44):
with you, Pat Chung, Walter Thurman and Bird I think
was at the other corner.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
And boy, when I tell you.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Y'all told us up and down that field and Jay
stew Our best player was our safety.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Brandon Harrison.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
He was a big dude, like like two thirty, you know,
six two supposed to be League bounds, supposed to be
and he killing us in training camp. So I'm like, boy,
this boy is nice.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
All you know is yeah, Jay Stu got up that sideline,
grabbed him by his face, mask yump to the ground
and just got out of there. I said, it's real
out here. His voice is real. They legitimate.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I gotta, I gotta.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
You know, when your head dog, when your main dog
get dog down, you you you in for a long day.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
He just did that to Demo God dog dog.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
That's funny as hell. That's funny as hey. We got
some breaking news. It looks like the Kansas City Chiefs
just traded Trip mcduffeat to the Rams or first round pick,
fifth round pick, sixth round pick, a third round pick
for twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Like Christmas list. God damn, the Santa Claus came with that. Man.
That's wow. Wow. NFC West right now, NFC West is
an arms rate.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
It is last year. They was cooking last year. I
said they was the best division in football. And I
know the Rams are losing Kobe Durant, which was probably
their best corner. Like that boy was out there making plays.
He going to free agency and they, I mean, that
was a knot on the on the Rams this year.
Was that secondary right, They had Forbes out there.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
He had an up and down season.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
You know, Kobe Durant was holding it down as far
as turnovers, but they gave up a lot of players
especially to you guys, man, and crucial clutch plays and
clutch moments. So we just talked about your defense what
they have to do in the bigger moments of the game.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Man, What do you think about this? Man, Sean, I
think this.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I low key feel like that the rams got laced
because I don't know about a corner getting that much
of a haul like a first, like a first round
pick for him would have made sense. So you just said, okay,
first round, but they gave a fifth, sixth in a
third from next year, like that just seems like a lot.
And it seems like on the chief side, they might
be going into rebuild mode. They might be feeling like, hey,
(39:29):
this is gonna be a throwaway year because they don't
know when Pat Mahomes is going to be back. You know,
he's coming off the ACL. You don't know how quickly
that's gonna heal. Is he going to be back mid season?
Is he gonna be back late be back late season?
I don't know. And so giving up your best corner
seems like in getting draft picks for it seems like, hey,
(39:51):
we're just investing in the future and we don't want
to keep paying high value corners and save a little
bit of money, so they may be able to retain
I mean, I guess maybe retain Chris Jones and some
of the other guys that they have. But for the Rams,
it makes sense, like for the reasons you said they're
they're losing Forbes, they got a great front and Jared
Vers and Biring Young and Braydon Fisk. Landman's a good linebacker,
(40:14):
so they feel good about their front, but they need
to secure that back in if they're gonna keep competing
with the Seattle Seahawks and the San Francisco forty nine ers.
That that division, everybody had ten wins and everybody was
you know, two of them more. In the NFC Championship game,
the Niners got put out by the Seahawks in a
divisional But they're gonna get healthier this year. They're gonna
(40:35):
get all their best players back. For Ed Warner's coming back,
Nick nick Bose is coming back. It's some up in
the air stuff about Trent Williams, but I would assume
he's coming back, and them at full strength is as
good as any team in this league. So it's gonna
be fun to watch.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I think, honestly, I think
the Chiefs won this one, especially with that third, with
that charity on the top. My thing is the turnovers
right from your number one corner to last year or
one last year, two, the.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Year before, zero, the years.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
And I really see Trent as an inside nickel, right,
he can play the outside, but last year seemed that
he got picked on a little bit out there when
he was at the number one, especially against bigger receivers.
And that was just me looking at as many games
as I've watched. Of course I didn't watch every game,
but I watched a lot of the Chiefs games, especially
(41:27):
them being you know AFC West, right, you pay attention
to that.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
When you watching the Broncos.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
So a first rounder, like you said, cool, maybe another
late rounder, but then another late rounder and the third man,
ah Man, big Red Andy Reid.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I think they won that one.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
And knowing that they like to develop through the draft,
it gives them another opportunity to bring a younger player in,
maybe an ideal player that they may want to get
in free agency, but.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Hey, let's not spend the money. Let's get this.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Type of player in the draft for the lo and
develop him and we could pay. Our big horse who
pretty much makes everything happen is Chris Jones, right like,
you better keep him if you want to upset Chris Jones.
I would dare to say the best player in football defense,
right man, I would look.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Not far from I don't think they win any of
those Super Bowls without him, No, absolutely, And that's my
personal opinion. I know he had a down year this year.
I think he would he would admit that, he would
say it. The tape says it. And I think people
are so down on him, especially you hear Kansas City
Chiefs fans like man.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Get rid of him, get rid of him.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
People have down years, guys, But when he's on in
twenty three, in nineteen and twenty, like a lot of
those years, y'all won super Bowls. He was the reason
he won him that super Bowl in twenty three nineteen.
He had an incredible year. She had an impactful game
that season in the Super Bowl, and I'm not sure
(42:58):
they win it without him. So again, as you said,
keep him happy, keep and maybe surround him with more talent,
like more d Lin talent. You know, pass rush wins
games in this league. Pass rush. You got to have it,
and I think it showed up in the AFC side
because of what Houston's doing with Danil Hunter and Will Anderson. Uh,
what what Denver's doing with with Benito and Cooper and
(43:22):
those boys, and even interior they got interior all pro
uh and uh Zach Zach Allen. Yeah, yeah, who's Who's
Who's freaking phenomenal. But a great pass rush gets you,
gives you a chance, you know, and as you said earlier,
pass rush and coverage work together.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah, I like, I think, I like especially, I think
this draft has an abundance of pass rushers that you
can get laid after those early guys go right after
the banns Uh, he'll probably maybe you know the boys
at Ohio State, they can change the defense. Right Our
guy is at the text the Red Raiders, he's I
(44:02):
think he'll be the first defensive guy gone. But then
you got a group of long outside corners that are
coming out of this draft this year.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
So man, it's gonna be interesting to see.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
It's gonna be very interesting to see how they installed
McDuffie in that Rams defense, and really, what responsibility do
they have. Do they have them playing more inside? Do
they have somebody that they picture to play outside or
they gonna line them up immediately at number one on
your best receiver.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, I'm interested to see that too. And we've had
those conversations before about you know, shadowing the number one receiver?
And is that the most valuable thing to do? Is
that the smartest thing for a defense to do? And
I think it's situational, you know, I don't think it's
something you do every week, because not every week you
got a true number one that's that impactful, that's getting
one hundred and fifty targets. You know, if you looked
(44:54):
at this Super Bowl and said, hey, you're playing the Patriots.
Are you playing the Seahawks? You say, oh, man, if
you the Patriots, you're following JSN. But then JSN goes
out early in that game and you're like, okay, so
who do you follow?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Now?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Here's nobody else worth worth following or dictating your defense
like that, So it kind of kills the point of it.
And on the other side, if you're playing the Patriots,
who you who you following with number one? Kashawan, Boody
Douglas is digs the guy, you know what I mean?
None of them are getting those kind of targets or
that kind of focus for you to say, hey, we
need to designate our defense to focus on this guy
(45:29):
and put our best player, uh and and kind of
tilt our defense that way.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
In my opinion, Yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Just brought up a something I was. You made me
realize Tarique wooling up. You know, you could probably get
him for a cheaper price than he was worth for
two years ago. So I mean, it's a lot of
free agent corners out there as well. I don't know
if I like this by the Rams. I really don't know,
but hey, I could they you know McVeigh, great head coach,
you can prove me wrong.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Right right, do your thing.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
They might just put out a stat they've traded every
first round pick for the last ten years. Really, Yeah,
twenty seventeen traded traded their pick to the Titans, twenty eighteen,
traded their pick to the Patriots, twenty nineteen to the Falcons,
twenty twenty to the Jags, twenty twenty one to the Jags,
(46:19):
twenty twenty two to the Lions, twenty three to the
Lions twenty four they drafted Jared Verse.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
So my bad, it wasn't all the whole ten year.
That's a lot. They always in the wind now seemed
like if you're getting up.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Your first round picks, I got Matt back here. I'm
in the win now until he retired at it ain't
no way until later. We're trying to win every Super
Bowl this year. So that's a good I mean, that's
a good place to be in. That's a great place
to be in. That's a great place to be. You
feel like you always got a chance. And Matt is
one of them.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Dudes, man, for real, for real, he definitely is MVP.
Hey can't argue that.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
But but we had a lot of respect for y'all
in what y'all did and y'all defense. And you know,
we go back for if it's all fun because we
just pride for players and we play.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
You played at a high level, and we played.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
At a high level, and everybody wants to be the
best and take pride in what they did. But as
you just said, defensive players can appreciate just great defense
being played, you know, And I love it even nowadays
when I see like the Seahawks defense and what they
did to the Patriots in the in the Super Bowl
and anytime there's a great defense. I loved what Denver
was doing all year, you know that what they had
(47:26):
going and uh and certain in them boys in Houston
with them boys in Houston on it's crazy young boys
is playing good football.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
So it's it's great to see that.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Man.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Maybe you and me could collab more because I enjoyed this. Yeah,
joy seeing you getting getting the talk ball.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Nah, definitely we we gotta do it again, man, Like
you said, Uh, great collaboration.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
I'm glad we got to do this. Man. Always a
pleasure talking to you. Man.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Hey, we gonna leave it up to y'all, and y'all
argue amongst yourself.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Man, it's no.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Flies on leasion the bull. Who's your number one defensive
all time? Leave it in the comments for show. Don't
forget to watch Richard Sherman's show, Watch Safety First Show
we on YouTube, Instagram, all that, man, leave it in
the comments.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
And as always, we appreciate you joining us. You could
be anywhere in the world, but you're here with us
and we surely do appreciate it. As he said, catch
the Safety First podcast or the Richard Sherman podcast, both
on YouTube. We obviously collabin right here, but thank you
guys for joining.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Appreciate you
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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