Jeff Hafley joins Richard Sherman to discuss his rise to becoming head coach of the Miami Dolphins and the bold decisions behind resetting the roster and culture. Hafley explains why moving on from star players was necessary, how he’s building one of the youngest teams in the NFL, and why toughness, effort, and a true love for football drive his evaluation process. He also shares lessons learned from coaching under Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur, his philosophy on empowering players through communication, and why he believes Malik Willis can lead this new era in Miami after the team parted ways with Tua Tagovailoa. This interview is a deep dive into NFL coaching, leadership, team building, and what it takes to create long-term success.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to the Richard Sherman Podcast. We got an
incredible guest today, one of my favorite coaches. He got
to start as a dB coach with the Bucks, the Browns,
then he was my dB coach in San Francisco, went
back to college to Ohio State, then the head coach
at Boston College, then the defensive coordinator for the Green
Bay Packers, and now the head coach for the Miami Dolphins.
(00:27):
I want to welcome the great defensive mind and a
good friend of mine, Jeff Affley. Appreciate you joining me, brother.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thanks Sherman. It's good to have you on. Cool to
see you doing this, even though you could probably still
be playing or coaching, which you never take me up
on my offers. But one day you will. One day
I will day time yet not that time yet, But
eventually you're gonna get the itch and you're gonna be
off the podcast deal and you're gonna be the one
being interviewed.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be off your second Super Bowl.
I'm gonna be like, yeah, this is probably about the
time I should probably go ahead and dust it off
my shoulders and get involved. You've coached college, You've worked
as a coordinator in Green Band. Now you're leading the
team in Miami. Which part of your journey do you
think has has had the greatest impact, because it's it
seems like such a quick trajectory, but there's so much
(01:14):
work and so much work you've put in behind the scenes,
so many man hours that you've put in, so much,
so much dedication, so much lockey in and you're finally
getting to see the fruits of your labor.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I you know, I think I've been lucky with all
the stops. You know. I think one thing that you know,
I've been fortunate. It's been a long journey, and it's
been you know, there's been some ups and downs, but
you know, just coaching a position, for example, I think,
you know, I learned I was able to coach from
a young age, whether I was coaching you or Ronde
(01:44):
or Revis. I've been around some really, really good players,
and I learned how to connect with those players, and
I learned how to pick their brains. And I've learned
from really good players kind of like you and I
would always have conversations. You'd ask me questions, I'd ask
you questions. I took a lot of pride and always
learning and never stop learning. And then I took a
lot of pride in teaching. So I think, you know,
(02:06):
being a position coach, I learned how to connect with players,
I learned a game, I learned how to teach. I
think that was huge. And then, you know, even I
had to make that hard decision when I left the
Niners after my time with you, I wanted to call
plays and I was ready to call plays, and I think,
you know, sometimes people get caught up and you know,
staying in the NFL or being in a certain place
(02:27):
or being a certain level. You know, I got fortunate
to have the opportunity to go to Ohio State, and
you know, I learned how to be really a coordinator
there and then quickly I became a head coach. Right,
So then I had to learn that And was I
ready for that at thirty nine forty years old. Probably not.
You know, you're not. You're not. You're not as ready
(02:48):
as you think you are. But you kind of go
through the you go through the years and you grow
and you learn, and so then I kind of got
prepared in that sense, right, and then I took I left.
Obviously everybody kind of know was that story, and then
I got to coordinate again, but this time in the NFL.
But I think with the head coaching experience, I was
even more prepared to do that, you know. And then
(03:12):
obviously now I get a second goal round. But kind
of a strange journey going back and forth. But I
think I'm much more prepared this go around, you know,
after those experiences. So it's been great.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You've been around some of the what most would consider
some of the best coaches in the National Football League
in terms of head coaches. Uh with with Kyle Shanahan
and Lafloor even at at Ohio State, you know, one
of the best college head coaches. What do you think
you've learned or what is one thing that you've taken
from each of those coaches that's helped you in your journey.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah. I think with Kyle, just the accountability he held
his staff to and how demanding he was. And I mean,
I mean, you know, you had you had to know
your stuff. I mean he'd come in and he'd challenged
you in a good way, but he would challenge you.
Do you want to see how convicted you were? You
want to make sure you were on your stuff? And
you know, I take I take a lot of that
and just how he approaches the staff, and you know
(04:10):
how demanding he is to make sure that you know
he's preparing the players. You're preparing the players. They're preparing
the players in a really high quality way, and that
you're on your stuff. I always appreciated Kyle for that.
He just he made sure you knew what you were
doing and if you if you didn't, it was not
going to be a very good day. And then I
(04:31):
thought he was really good in front of the team.
I thought the way that he coached the whole team,
so we could see him coaching the offense, the defense,
the special teams. He was up there, you remember in
those meetings. I try to I tried to emulate that
the best that I can, so when you're up in
the front, you're not just a defensive guy or an
offensive guy. I'm coaching everybody. I'm coaching the offensive players,
(04:52):
I'm coaching the scheme on both sides of the ball.
I'm coaching the special team. So the players can all
feel me in that regard. I thought Matt's it's such
a good job of you know, holding the players accountable.
I think you know, Matt had a standard. He set
the standard and he didn't deviate from it. And I
think in this league a lot of times people kind
of walk by some stuff, but Matt wouldn't do that.
(05:14):
And at times you back, ay, Matt, that's just a
little thing, but it wasn't to him, and I think
he really taught me that lesson as I go through
this now and I'm meeting with the team and I'm
having these conversations that you know, the standard you walk
by is a standard you set and you can't walk
by anything, especially NATIONERM as we're trying to build this
the right way and build the culture the way that
(05:35):
we want it, especially that we're going to have a
lot of really really young players. I just I think
Matt did such a great job of that, and I
think that's one of the reasons they've consistently won and
been a playoff team. And then they'll take the next
step soon.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah. That takes me to my next point about what
you're walking into in Miami, because it seems like you
guys have made such huge, monumental foundational changes, but in
terms of restarting and establishing a new culture, it's it's
it was necessary. It was necessary to get some of
the the you know, the their big money, big name guys.
(06:12):
But in order to start the culture that you you
want to achieve, sometimes you got to make hard decisions
to get that, to get that started. So you guys
got rid of Tyreek, you got rid of to a
tongue of Ailoa. What went into those decisions as you
as you started to see the kind of landscape of
the Miami Dolphins and what what was necessary?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously John, Eric and I
had a lot of conversations about that, and you know,
it's truly the situation that we walked into. I think
there was there was over thirty three free agents on
the on the roster when we got here. The cap
situation was really difficult. So we we had to get
in a healthier spot as far as the cap goes.
So so we had to make some really hard decision
(06:53):
with some really good players who I have a ton
of respect for and they're still going to have a
lot of success in this league. We just weren't in
the situation suation where we were able to keep them
as we build this thing going forward, you know, so
hard decisions are made really good players had to leave
the team, and now we find ourselves in a position
where we just drafted thirteen players. I mean, just think
(07:14):
about that. I mean Saturday, I felt like we were
picking every five minutes in there. But what does it
do it? You know, we're going to be young. I
mean we have some really we have some really good pieces,
don't get me wrong. I mean we got some vets
on the team that you know, are as good as
players as I've been around, and there are awesome people
and they have great leadership qualities. But with that, I mean,
we'll probably be one of the youngest, if not the
(07:37):
youngest team in the National Football League with all the
rookies that we are going to bring in, And you know,
will that be hard? Shure? I think playing a lot
of rookies is difficult at times. But at the same time,
we get a chance to develop those players, and we
get a chance to teach them and have them grow
up and teach them the way that we want to
do things. As we build this thing for the future,
(07:57):
I think it's going to be about the foundation and
what we want that to look like, and in some
ways it will be It will be nice to start fresh.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Like that, no question about it. I mean, because you
don't have the kind of skeletons and ghosts of the
past regime and the past uh staff kind of kind
of still hanging and lingering around the building, for whatever
that's worth. But you did bring him, Malik Willis. You
brought him in. You guys made him your your number
one quarterback. You got to see him kind of develop
(08:26):
and grow in Green Bay. What what did it mean
to kind of bring him in and be able to
target him early on and know that you you had
a guy that you can trust and believe in going forward.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, And I think you know this because you know
you're around the league for so long. It's so important
that when you when you get any free agent, that
you know exactly what you're getting, right. I mean, you've
been in locker rooms. I've been in locker rooms where
you watch tape, you fall in love with the tape,
and you get a guy and he might not fit
your locker room, he might not fit your culture, he
might not fit you. We people know what Moleek's like
(09:01):
as a player in a small sample size. He's went
out in the two years that I was with him,
and he did a really nice job in some very
big moments in some big games. I got to see
him in practice every day, so he was our scout
team quarterback. So I was actually I communicated with him
more than I communicated with Jordan, because each week I
wanted a certain look. I wanted him to play a
certain way I wanted him. I wanted him to be
(09:22):
free and play the game because I didn't want to
tell him who to throw to. But there are weeks
I wanted him to stay in the pocket because that's
quarterback we're going to play. There's weeks when I wanted
him to run around and scramble. There are weeks where
I wanted him to operate in a certain manner. So
him and I developed a really good relationship. And then
obviously I got to see him play. And he's competitive,
he's tough, he can throw the ball, he's accurate. He's
really accurate down the field, and he's really athletic. I mean,
(09:46):
he's strong, he can make plays with his feet, and
when he breaks the pocket, he's really accurate. And then
on top of all that, I love the person on
the field. Off the field, he's got this unique way
that he leads he's not this outspoken, loud guy, but
people kind of gravitate to him. So to get a
(10:06):
quarterback like that, which is the key position of our
team that you trust as we build this foundation and
we have a type of leader that we want, I
think that's.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Huge, no questions, it's colossal, especially when you talk about
the leader of your team and establishing a culture and
having people buy in. If the guy who touches the
ball every play is bought in, everybody else usually follows.
And do you think as a head coach your approach
is different than a coordinator, because in Green Bay, you
(10:36):
guys grew from year one to year two. You got
better in terms of the rankings down the board. Your
players spoke very highly of you, and you talked about
your relationship with players and the input that you accept
from those players. And I think that has been something
I always respected and admired about you, is that you
do sit and listen. You know, you'll sit there and
listen to a player's opinion and have the conversation. Unlike
(10:59):
there's some coaches that are saying, hey, it's my way
or the highway, Like I may hear you out, but
I'm not going to change anything based on those conversations.
But if you listen to Xavier McKinney, you look at
listen to Keshawn Nixon, Quay, Michael Parsons and how they
talk about you. I think that had an incredible impact
on those guys. So do you try to keep that
approach as a head coach?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah? And and and for sure, especially you know, maybe
not so much with a rookie who's just trying to
figure it out, but like like you, for example, right
like after after plays, I'd run up to you and
be like, hey, what'd you see because I'd want to
you might have done something that you know, by the
letter of the law wasn't correct. But I would ask
you what you see, and I'd ask you why, And
(11:39):
a lot of times you would give me a really
good explanation and I'd kind of smirk and be like, yeah,
that makes sense. And then there's sometimes be like, okay,
but please don't do that again because I'm going to
hear from solid Kyle and it's just, hey, you know,
we can't be doing that, but I do want I'm
always asking why. I want to know what people see.
I want to know what they think because Ultimately, I
want I've always wanted players to be comfortable within the scheme, right,
(12:01):
and it's like, sure, what do you think on third
and seven? Coverage wise? What do you think of this
wide out? And what do you within a series? And
let's go have a conversation and try to get it called.
I mean, you're the one out there playing, so it's
as long as it fits within the scheme. Like I
like all the calls. Like if I asked Micah, like, hey,
where do you want to line up? I can create
a one on one with the guard to tackle, Like
who do you want to line up against? I mean
(12:23):
he's gonna have more ownership than it. He's gonna want
to go out there and he's gonna have success whatever
he does anyway. But it's those conversations that we have
or you know, Quai, I want you to pick this
guard or this running back, Like what do you think
on this one? I like these three calls? How would
you rank him? I like him all so I'm gonna
but if a player knows that he's got some input
and he has some ownership, he's gonna put his best
(12:45):
foot forward. And I want guys to play the game
like that that's that's really really important to me.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
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Speaker 1 (14:02):
And you talked about how young your team is and
how drastic there's big changes being made. I think there's
a team in your division, the New England Patriots, who
had a similar amount of turnover and a new staff
and everything, and they were able to have some success
early on with you, with young guys just early establishing
their culture, a lot of buy in from the guys,
maybe a few select veterans here and there, you know,
(14:24):
some journeymen who were just able to put together a
really good season. And and does that give you a
little bit of confidence of what's possible within the division,
even though you know people may have a little bit
lower expectations just because of the cap situation. You lost
so many veterans, et cetera, et cetera. Do you still
feel like, hey, we'll have a chance to battle and
compete each and every week.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, I think, I mean, just like anything you would do,
I mean any situation I want to go in. I
want to win in everything that we do. You know,
I think the expectations for right now or like you
talked about, we have to build this foundation and build
this culture the right way. And I know people don't
want to hear like me say that, but I think
that's really important. And then you and I always talked
(15:06):
about competition, like you always talk I remember to this
day you always talked about to me when we first
got to San Francisco, we didn't quite have the competition
that you did in Seattle, and you talked about how
those best teams and the best defense is you have
to create that competition to push guys to improve every
single day. We need to create that by drafting these
players and signing some free agents. We need to create
(15:28):
that competitive way right now. And I think that's really important.
And then the other thing for me, it's going to
be I just I want to play harder than everybody
that we play against and if they're not living up
to that standard, there's going to be someone else in
back that I'm going to put in. So as long
as we start to do that, and we play hard
and we play smart and we coach well, then yeah,
I want to win in everything we can. What's that
(15:50):
going to look like, you're one, I'm not sure, you know,
but I'm excited to build it the right way, and
i want this thing to be built so we can
have sustain, sustained success over time. And that's really part
of the reason I liked his job so much is because,
you know, ownership has been awesome. Working with Sully's been awesome.
(16:11):
I think we have a shared vision, and you know,
I'm excited to start building it that way.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You guys end up drafting thirteen players, like you said,
and I'm sure you know, the the draft boards kind
of fluct you out way throughout that day. You know,
there's obviously surprises here and there, but you guys were
able to get Caden Proctor, Chris Johnson, Jacob Rodriguez, Caleb Douglas,
which one of these guys, you know, out of thirteen guys,
was probably the most surprising. Where you guys were like, man,
(16:39):
we weren't expecting him to be there, and he was
and it worked out.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Oh it's good. Probably if one guy I didn't think
would be there when we took him was probably Rodriguez.
I would have thought I would have been thought. I
thought he would have been picked sooner, just his college tape.
I think the upside. I think the potential. I think
leadership capability, the playmaking ability, the production. I thought he
(17:05):
would have been gone by that pick. So he was
when he was still there that one. We were all
pretty excited about that pick. I mean you could you
could even say the same. I mean, I know for
us like Procter, I mean that when he was still
available for us to pick, then when we picked, because
we moved back and got two extra picks, and he
was going to be the guy we took at eleven,
but we got him at twelve with two extra picks
(17:27):
on top of it, which I thought was an awesome
job by John Eric with his size and his potential
and how young he is. He's a guy that we
could be looking at down the road and people say, Wow,
how'd that guy get drafted at twelve at a premium
position with how young he is, how big he is,
and how talented he is. That one I think people
(17:47):
might look back on in a few years and try
to figure out what made him fall to right.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I think there's so much, you know, so much guesswork
in this draft because he's are human beings and you
just never know how they're going to react to the lead.
But I think a lot of that and a lot
of these projections kind of kind of get lost in that.
You know, they get away from the tape. So you
see Jacob right Reguez, his tape looked incredible, but then
you get into the nuance and they're like, well you
ran this forty times? His ten yards split is this?
(18:13):
And it's like his tape looks like he could be
one of the best linebackers in the National Football League.
When do we get away from that?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Like but no, but you're sure you're right though, But
like if you look, like if you look at the
guys we drafted, like just take a look at that
list and who we drafted on defense, like to try
up your ally. They're smart guys who love football. And
you know how we know they love football because watch
how hard they all play. I mean, you're talking about
some tough dudes. They're productive dudes, even like we took
(18:40):
the safety pretty late in the draft Taff from Texas.
I mean, you look at his production, how hard he plays,
and how instinctive he is, and the type of person
that he is. I just I think he did a
really great job with drafting competitive, smart, productive players who
the tape says they're already good football players.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah. I was just about to ask you something. You
pretty much answered my question. But I was going to
ask what traits were you looking at in these players
and what similarities did they have? But like you just said,
it's production, it's dog, it's you know that.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I want guys who love football, and like every
time I want tough guys who love football, and every
time we talk about well, how do you figure that out?
I can't figure that out on a zoom and I
can't figure that out if I spend a thirty visit
for an hour in my office. The way I can
figure it out is when I turn on the tape.
How hard does he play? Does he run to the ball,
What does it look like in the fourth quarter when
he's tired? How competitive is the guy? Is he one
(19:32):
of these guys putting his hands up and pointing at
a teammate. Is he clapping when he makes a mistake
and looking all around? Does he take the next playoff?
Is he you know? Is he turning stuff down?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Like?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Those are the guys that is we build it for this.
I don't want that. It's just I want the guys
who are going to be competitive on every down and
give everything that they have. I mean, shoot, man, you
were coming off of your achilles and you were running
on the backside. You know, I still tell people of
those stories. Man you were, you were running on the backside,
and I mean like like you were ten years earlier.
(20:05):
I mean I remember one of your first one on ones,
like you're not ready to go, and I remember you
got beat on a route. But man, the coolest part
in the world is you put your head down and
you just finished because you didn't care. Man, That's who
you were. And you know, not to make this about you,
but those are the type of guys that you win with.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
After the season's all said and done, you know, you're
in February, We're fast forward and down the line. What
do you want people to say about the team and
the season? Your team just had.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I want to see I want to see one all
the things that I talked about when they turn on
the tape. I want them to see a bunch of
guys that fly around, that play for each other, that
play smart, physical, tough football, and I want to see
improvement throughout the year. We got to be playing our
best football in the last game of the season. That
that's going to be so important, you know, and that
we celebrate some of those, you know, successes that we
(20:53):
have along the way, understanding that we're building this thing,
and those are the things that are really really important
to me.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It sounds like great things to talk about. Now. We
talked about your staff a bit off camera, but you're
able to bring some of the guys from Green Bay
with you Downard and Dugan, and you talked about the
time that you spent with them, and I think you
brought an offensive line assistant from maybe Boston College with you.
Talk about the way those relationships have manifested and how
(21:23):
important that is to continuity and just you know who
you are as a coach and a person.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, one, I think you win with people. Right, We're
going to go through We're going to go through adversity,
it's coming, right, you're either in it or it's coming.
It's going to happen. And when you go through hard moments,
I think you got to have people you trust, and
you got to have people that you know how they're
going to respond when bad things happen to get through them.
(21:50):
And when you go through the fire with people, it's
always nice to know who you're dealing with, so you know.
And Sean Duggan, who's our defensive coordinator. I met him
at Ohio State. He was he was my graduate assistant
and he sat next to me in the booth. And
when I tell you, like, after spending one year with him,
like he's a guy that in between series I'd ask
him the questions right, really super impressive, super smart. Played
(22:12):
the position at Boston College. So when I got the
BC job, I was like, he's definitely coming with me.
He was a captain there, made him a linebacker coach,
really good with the players, was still learning defense, and
by my fourth year there, I named him my defensive coordinator.
So obviously a ton of respect for him and his knowledge.
I saw him as a rising star. And then when
I got when I left and took the Green Bay job.
(22:33):
I told Matt. I was like, Matt, we're going to
hire the staff. And then at the end, I was like,
I need this guy, like he's I got to get him.
We'll name him the assistant linebacker coach, whatever we need,
but I need this guy. He's going to be a star.
And then Campy Anthony Campanell, he was my linebacker coach.
He left went to the Jags be there coordinator and
I said, Matt, we got to promote Shawn. And by
that point Matt was like, absolutely, this guy's a stud.
(22:55):
So he named Sean linebacker coach. And then when I
got the Miami job, you know, Matt interviewed him for
the coordinator job, and you know, I totally get that.
And if he named Sean the coordinator, understand he gets
to coordinate the Green Bay Packers. And he didn't. So
I asked Matt if, obviously, you know, I could take
him with me and be my coordinator. And Matt wasn't
(23:16):
going to hold him back to do that. So I
got a chance to bring Sean, which is so huge
for me because he's been with me for eight straight years.
He knows the scheme inside and out. He knows how
I think he knows what I want. So what he's
done now is he's organized it all for me. He's
presenting in front of the defense so I can go
in with the offense be the head coach right now.
We'll sit down and we'll talk, we'll meet, and then
(23:38):
once training camp hits, I'll take it back over. But
that allows me to be the head coach right now,
and I think, I think that's huge. I'm sitting in
the quarterback meetings, I'm sitting on the offense installs because
what I learned this go around is I got to
know everything that's going on. I just can't be the
defensive coach. I don't want the players just to see
me as the defensive coordinator. I want them to see
me and feel me as the head coach. And I
(23:59):
want to know. I want to know all the scheme.
So he's really allowed me to do that. And like
I said, I think he's a star and I'm very
grateful that he's with me. And then getting Ryan Downer.
Ryan was my dB coach in Green Bay and he
was with me in Cleveland too when I was with
the Browns. He was one of the assistants we actually
assure him. We had Aaron Glenn was my assistant dB coach,
(24:19):
Bobby Babbage was my assistant dB coach, and Ryan Down
of us. We had a really good dB group for
that year. So then Ryan, you know, Jonathan Gannon, wanted
to bring his dB coach and some guys on his staff,
which Matt told me. He's like, hey, you want Down,
I said, want him? Are you kidding me? This is
this is unbelievable because now I got the guy that
(24:40):
I've been with and sat in all those meetings for
two years. Now I'm totally I mean, he knows exactly
how I want it, he knows the details, he's a stud,
and I don't have to sit in. So I got
the linebacker guy, the dB guy, which has freed me
up so much. And Ryan will be a coordinator down
the road here pretty soon too. He's a great, great
human and he's a really good football coach. And then
(25:01):
Matt Applebaum. He was my on line coach at Boston
College with NFL experience, so to get him as the
assistant online coach is huge. And then I also brought
Al Washington. I was the coaching at Notre Dame. He
was my linebacker coach at Ohio State. Al's got an
edge to him. Man, He'll get those guys run through
a wall. And that's what you need. Oh it is.
(25:23):
It is like him in camp. He are a lot
of like two of my favorite guys, but really good coach,
awesome person, and he'll get those linebackers playing run through people,
which is what we need.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
And then you you, you get to retain our guy
Bobby Slowick, Yeah, and promote him the coordinator, which yeah.
I love to see his ascension. I love to see
all these guys get the respect. He's such a great
offensive line and a brilliant, brilliant man. How cool was
that you know, somebody, another person that you've kind of
come full circle with.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, it's huge. I mean, think about it. Bobby was
coaching defense with us those first couple of years. It
was like me and him and Salah in the room.
He so he knows all the defensive rules. I mean,
you know him. He's so smart. I mean and as
a person, I mean, I mean what a stud is
a guy? So to have that on the other side
of the ball, knowing how detailed he's going to be organized,
(26:14):
He's going to be I mean he's been trained by arguably,
you know, one of the best play callers in the
last however many years, and just to have that in
the room and listen to him do it, I mean,
it's really it's really cool to be back with him
and have a guy I truly trust on the other
side of the ball. I mean, I even think when
I coached Agains him when he was at Houston. I mean,
he did a really good job there. I mean, he
(26:35):
really did. And I know things don't always work out,
but he's a guy who deserves another shot. And shoot,
he interviewed for head jobs after his first or second
year there, and you know, I'm hopeful that he'll have
success here and he'll have a chance because I think
he'd be an awesome head coach as well.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I think sometimes when you when you get to play
without the burden of expectation, it like frees you. You know,
it frees a lot of people to really be who
they are. I think sometimes the burden of expectation people don't.
They feel constrained. So I look forward to getting to
see him kind of go out there and be free
and coaches tail off and watch guys grow and mature.
(27:12):
Another question I got, because you're moving out of the booth.
He's moving out of the booth back to the field.
You can't be a head coach in the booth. How's
that feel?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Well you probably don't remember this, but Salo wanted me
up in the booth when you were that year in
San Francisco, and you came and you were like, no,
I need you to be on the field, No way.
So I had to be on the field there, which
was which was great. It would be fun to be
back on the field. Honestly, the last few years, I
just felt I felt it was best for who we
(27:43):
had on defense for me to be up there. See it,
take my notes, be calm about it. There were times
I wanted to be down on the field, like there
were moments, especially when adversity hits and you want to
get get your hands on them and be with them.
So there's pluses and minuses. But I'm excited to get
back I got down the field. It'll be fun. I'll
keep my cool and be level headed and and uh
(28:05):
and and try not to cause any problems down there.
But I'll never forget. I was all fired up to
go to the booth and I said, Salah.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Sure wants me now, so hold him down here.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Now I'm going down. I gotta be with him on
the sideline.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I appreciate that. I appreciate you you doing that for me.
Are you going to because because right now, I mean,
I guess most of the league is analytics guys, but
you know there's still a couple of old school, you
know guys that don't really live by the analytics that way.
But are you gonna be an analytics guy? Are you
gonna be a look at the page and see should
you go for it on fourth and one? Or are
(28:38):
you gonna be a feel by the you know, feel
good guy.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I'm gonna want to know. I'm gonna want to know
what the analytics says, but I'm gonna go on. I'm
gonna go based on what I think is best for
our team in the moment in the game. I think
just you know, for some guys, just going off the
paper and off the numbers is fine. I just no,
I want to. I want to. I want to get
a feel for the game. That's kind of how I
ended up my last couple of years at PC. Just
(29:04):
tell me what the analytics say and then let me
make a decision based on the flow of the game,
how I feel, and what the team needs for me
in the moment. I mean there's some moments, man, when
you decide not to go for it, your team's going
to kind of look at you sideways too. And when
those guys are telling you to go forward at times
it's you know they're going to get it for you. You
got to make some decisions like that too. And then
there's others where they're going to say go from like,
(29:25):
no way, guys, chill out. We got to pump the
ball right here. But I got to make those decisions
on what's best for each individual game and how I feel.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, you got guys like Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson
who are kind of like becoming the poster boys for
just like a different kind of NFL where these used
to be just a guaranteed punt situation. With these guys,
you just like, you really never know. Dan Campbell might
just go for it and might just say, screw the rules,
screw the analytics. It's fourth and three. We could tie it,
but we want to win and we're going for it. It's
(29:55):
worked out sometimes and at times it hasn't but you
know that you live by what you live by.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Defense on the on the plus thirty to start a
series either so if we can punt it, we're gonna
punt it. It's already hard enough show. And we get
the ball on the thirty five. Now on a touchback,
so I mean, you get one first down, and now
with these kickers, one first down, one explosive play is
three points. So I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's really crazy. It's really crazy, and everybody's trying to
find a loophole in it a way to kick. You know,
the NFL took out the little small loophole of kicking
it out of bounds at the certain spot, and you know,
but it just sucks. They taking they're taking away great defense.
Like you want to score points. You've done everything to
handicap the defense. Now you're just saying, hey, offense, here's
(30:39):
fifteen free yards. Well you don't even have to earn
them anymore. This is just for you guys. But and
now kickers can kick it from this kick it sixty
five yard field goal.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So it's like, just get it first down, you get
a first down and got a chance.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
That's crazy. Last question, and then I'll let you go.
I've had I don't want to hold you all day.
But we've had some great dvs on the show the
past few weeks. We had Charles Woodson, we had Rod Woodson,
we had Champ Bailey, We've had Prime. We'll have Prime again,
I'm sure. But who is like you're a a as
(31:13):
a football mind, as great defensive coach. Who's your top
five dbs of all time?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Oh gosh, how about I just named it to three?
How about I named how many? Here's the three I'm
gonna name Darrelle Reeves, Rendez Barber, Richard Sherman because I
got a chance to work with all three, so I
know exactly what it looked like. And this is take you.
We'll take you out of the equation sor everybody doesn't
think I'm just being nice to you. Like the difference
(31:39):
between the guys that I'm talking about and the rest
is the mindset and how they all practiced. And what
I've learned and what I try to tell people is
it's not just talent. It's not what it looks like
when we just go out and do individual it's a
mindset and a competitive edge that most people don't have.
It's and I joke about it all the time, but
(32:00):
it's when the head coach says it's a walk through
and the ball belongs to the offense and they're going
to catch the ball, and there's no PBUs. Those guys
weren't okay with that, and they weren't going to let
a guy ever catch a ball on them. That's just
not how it was. And you know exactly what I'm
talking about, because we'd have to get yelled at for
it because you'd be breaking the ball up and Revis
wouldn't be okay if a guy caught a ball on them,
(32:20):
and Rondez Barber was not okay if a guy ever
caught a ball on them. There's too many guys right
now that it's okay. I just got a ball cut
on me, No big deal. Yeah it is a big deal.
Like take it personal. That's your job. Don't let them
catch the ball on you, ever, and if not, line
up and do something about it. I just certain guys
have that mindset. There's just there's not many of them.
(32:41):
So I've been fortunate enough to see it firsthand and
learn from it and try to teach from it and
use those guys as examples. But I mean that's three
Hall of Fame guys that I got a chance to
be around, observed, ask questions, coach them, whatever you want
to call it, But I've been I've been lucky to
be on some good ones.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Appreciate that. I appreciate that. That means a lot to me.
Have it means a lot. You know, our friendship means
a lot. You know, you're one of my favorite coaches
of all time, and I'm grateful for the time that
we had together in San Francisco. I'm great to be
able to be a fan and watch you continue to
grow and flourish on your journey and get the head
coaching position that you deserve. And you know, I know
you'll you'll turn this franchise around and get them winning
(33:23):
and get them back to where they deserve to be.
If you got anything else you want to tell the
fans or you want to say, feel free, But I'm
just grateful for the time that you spent with me
and giving me this interview during what I know is
a chaotic off season for you.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
No, it's all good, man. I'm I'm happy to see
you and no, just excited about what we're gonna build.
We're gonna do it the right way with the right
type of people. And I'm just I'm really glad to
be here. I mean, the support has been awesome. I
just I am really fired up to be here and
get this thing started. I can't wait for Rotias to start,
can't wait for training camp and eventually I'll be fired
(33:59):
up to kick off. Thank you for having me on
Sherman and hopefully we'll talk soon.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yes, we will definitely talk soon. I mean, the weather
in December in South Beach is gonna be a lot
different than Green Bay. But you know, I'll let you
get there. I'll let you cross that bridge when you
get there.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Oh man, all right, Well, I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Talk to you soon. Man. I appreciate you.
Welcome back to the Richard Sherman Podcast. We got an
incredible guest today, one of my favorite coaches. He got
to start as a dB coach with the Bucks, the Browns,
then he was my dB coach in San Francisco, went
back to college to Ohio State, then the head coach
at Boston College, then the defensive coordinator for the Green
Bay Packers, and now the head coach for the Miami Dolphins.
(00:27):
I want to welcome the great defensive mind and a
good friend of mine, Jeff Affley. Appreciate you joining me, brother.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thanks Sherman. It's good to have you on. Cool to
see you doing this, even though you could probably still
be playing or coaching, which you never take me up
on my offers. But one day you will. One day
I will day time yet not that time yet, But
eventually you're gonna get the itch and you're gonna be
off the podcast deal and you're gonna be the one
being interviewed.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be off your second Super Bowl.
I'm gonna be like, yeah, this is probably about the
time I should probably go ahead and dust it off
my shoulders and get involved. You've coached college, You've worked
as a coordinator in Green Band. Now you're leading the
team in Miami. Which part of your journey do you
think has has had the greatest impact, because it's it
seems like such a quick trajectory, but there's so much
(01:14):
work and so much work you've put in behind the scenes,
so many man hours that you've put in, so much,
so much dedication, so much lockey in and you're finally
getting to see the fruits of your labor.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I you know, I think I've been lucky with all
the stops. You know. I think one thing that you know,
I've been fortunate. It's been a long journey, and it's
been you know, there's been some ups and downs, but
you know, just coaching a position, for example, I think,
you know, I learned I was able to coach from
a young age, whether I was coaching you or Ronde
(01:44):
or Revis. I've been around some really, really good players,
and I learned how to connect with those players, and
I learned how to pick their brains. And I've learned
from really good players kind of like you and I
would always have conversations. You'd ask me questions, I'd ask
you questions. I took a lot of pride and always
learning and never stop learning. And then I took a
lot of pride in teaching. So I think, you know,
(02:06):
being a position coach, I learned how to connect with players,
I learned a game, I learned how to teach. I
think that was huge. And then, you know, even I
had to make that hard decision when I left the
Niners after my time with you, I wanted to call
plays and I was ready to call plays, and I think,
you know, sometimes people get caught up and you know,
staying in the NFL or being in a certain place
(02:27):
or being a certain level. You know, I got fortunate
to have the opportunity to go to Ohio State, and
you know, I learned how to be really a coordinator
there and then quickly I became a head coach. Right,
So then I had to learn that And was I
ready for that at thirty nine forty years old. Probably not.
You know, you're not. You're not. You're not as ready
(02:48):
as you think you are. But you kind of go
through the you go through the years and you grow
and you learn, and so then I kind of got
prepared in that sense, right, and then I took I left.
Obviously everybody kind of know was that story, and then
I got to coordinate again, but this time in the NFL.
But I think with the head coaching experience, I was
even more prepared to do that, you know. And then
(03:12):
obviously now I get a second goal round. But kind
of a strange journey going back and forth. But I
think I'm much more prepared this go around, you know,
after those experiences. So it's been great.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You've been around some of the what most would consider
some of the best coaches in the National Football League
in terms of head coaches. Uh with with Kyle Shanahan
and Lafloor even at at Ohio State, you know, one
of the best college head coaches. What do you think
you've learned or what is one thing that you've taken
from each of those coaches that's helped you in your journey.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah. I think with Kyle, just the accountability he held
his staff to and how demanding he was. And I mean,
I mean, you know, you had you had to know
your stuff. I mean he'd come in and he'd challenged
you in a good way, but he would challenge you.
Do you want to see how convicted you were? You
want to make sure you were on your stuff? And
you know, I take I take a lot of that
and just how he approaches the staff, and you know
(04:10):
how demanding he is to make sure that you know
he's preparing the players. You're preparing the players. They're preparing
the players in a really high quality way, and that
you're on your stuff. I always appreciated Kyle for that.
He just he made sure you knew what you were
doing and if you if you didn't, it was not
going to be a very good day. And then I
(04:31):
thought he was really good in front of the team.
I thought the way that he coached the whole team,
so we could see him coaching the offense, the defense,
the special teams. He was up there, you remember in
those meetings. I try to I tried to emulate that
the best that I can, so when you're up in
the front, you're not just a defensive guy or an
offensive guy. I'm coaching everybody. I'm coaching the offensive players,
(04:52):
I'm coaching the scheme on both sides of the ball.
I'm coaching the special team. So the players can all
feel me in that regard. I thought Matt's it's such
a good job of you know, holding the players accountable.
I think you know, Matt had a standard. He set
the standard and he didn't deviate from it. And I
think in this league a lot of times people kind
of walk by some stuff, but Matt wouldn't do that.
(05:14):
And at times you back, ay, Matt, that's just a
little thing, but it wasn't to him, and I think
he really taught me that lesson as I go through
this now and I'm meeting with the team and I'm
having these conversations that you know, the standard you walk
by is a standard you set and you can't walk
by anything, especially NATIONERM as we're trying to build this
the right way and build the culture the way that
(05:35):
we want it, especially that we're going to have a
lot of really really young players. I just I think
Matt did such a great job of that, and I
think that's one of the reasons they've consistently won and
been a playoff team. And then they'll take the next
step soon.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah. That takes me to my next point about what
you're walking into in Miami, because it seems like you
guys have made such huge, monumental foundational changes, but in
terms of restarting and establishing a new culture, it's it's
it was necessary. It was necessary to get some of
the the you know, the their big money, big name guys.
(06:12):
But in order to start the culture that you you
want to achieve, sometimes you got to make hard decisions
to get that, to get that started. So you guys
got rid of Tyreek, you got rid of to a
tongue of Ailoa. What went into those decisions as you
as you started to see the kind of landscape of
the Miami Dolphins and what what was necessary?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously John, Eric and I
had a lot of conversations about that, and you know,
it's truly the situation that we walked into. I think
there was there was over thirty three free agents on
the on the roster when we got here. The cap
situation was really difficult. So we we had to get
in a healthier spot as far as the cap goes.
So so we had to make some really hard decision
(06:53):
with some really good players who I have a ton
of respect for and they're still going to have a
lot of success in this league. We just weren't in
the situation suation where we were able to keep them
as we build this thing going forward, you know, so
hard decisions are made really good players had to leave
the team, and now we find ourselves in a position
where we just drafted thirteen players. I mean, just think
(07:14):
about that. I mean Saturday, I felt like we were
picking every five minutes in there. But what does it
do it? You know, we're going to be young. I
mean we have some really we have some really good pieces,
don't get me wrong. I mean we got some vets
on the team that you know, are as good as
players as I've been around, and there are awesome people
and they have great leadership qualities. But with that, I mean,
we'll probably be one of the youngest, if not the
(07:37):
youngest team in the National Football League with all the
rookies that we are going to bring in, And you know,
will that be hard? Shure? I think playing a lot
of rookies is difficult at times. But at the same time,
we get a chance to develop those players, and we
get a chance to teach them and have them grow
up and teach them the way that we want to
do things. As we build this thing for the future,
(07:57):
I think it's going to be about the foundation and
what we want that to look like, and in some
ways it will be It will be nice to start fresh.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Like that, no question about it. I mean, because you
don't have the kind of skeletons and ghosts of the
past regime and the past uh staff kind of kind
of still hanging and lingering around the building, for whatever
that's worth. But you did bring him, Malik Willis. You
brought him in. You guys made him your your number
one quarterback. You got to see him kind of develop
(08:26):
and grow in Green Bay. What what did it mean
to kind of bring him in and be able to
target him early on and know that you you had
a guy that you can trust and believe in going forward.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, And I think you know this because you know
you're around the league for so long. It's so important
that when you when you get any free agent, that
you know exactly what you're getting, right. I mean, you've
been in locker rooms. I've been in locker rooms where
you watch tape, you fall in love with the tape,
and you get a guy and he might not fit
your locker room, he might not fit your culture, he
might not fit you. We people know what Moleek's like
(09:01):
as a player in a small sample size. He's went
out in the two years that I was with him,
and he did a really nice job in some very
big moments in some big games. I got to see
him in practice every day, so he was our scout
team quarterback. So I was actually I communicated with him
more than I communicated with Jordan, because each week I
wanted a certain look. I wanted him to play a
certain way I wanted him. I wanted him to be
(09:22):
free and play the game because I didn't want to
tell him who to throw to. But there are weeks
I wanted him to stay in the pocket because that's
quarterback we're going to play. There's weeks when I wanted
him to run around and scramble. There are weeks where
I wanted him to operate in a certain manner. So
him and I developed a really good relationship. And then
obviously I got to see him play. And he's competitive,
he's tough, he can throw the ball, he's accurate. He's
really accurate down the field, and he's really athletic. I mean,
(09:46):
he's strong, he can make plays with his feet, and
when he breaks the pocket, he's really accurate. And then
on top of all that, I love the person on
the field. Off the field, he's got this unique way
that he leads he's not this outspoken, loud guy, but
people kind of gravitate to him. So to get a
(10:06):
quarterback like that, which is the key position of our
team that you trust as we build this foundation and
we have a type of leader that we want, I
think that's.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Huge, no questions, it's colossal, especially when you talk about
the leader of your team and establishing a culture and
having people buy in. If the guy who touches the
ball every play is bought in, everybody else usually follows.
And do you think as a head coach your approach
is different than a coordinator, because in Green Bay, you
(10:36):
guys grew from year one to year two. You got
better in terms of the rankings down the board. Your
players spoke very highly of you, and you talked about
your relationship with players and the input that you accept
from those players. And I think that has been something
I always respected and admired about you, is that you
do sit and listen. You know, you'll sit there and
listen to a player's opinion and have the conversation. Unlike
(10:59):
there's some coaches that are saying, hey, it's my way
or the highway, Like I may hear you out, but
I'm not going to change anything based on those conversations.
But if you listen to Xavier McKinney, you look at
listen to Keshawn Nixon, Quay, Michael Parsons and how they
talk about you. I think that had an incredible impact
on those guys. So do you try to keep that
approach as a head coach?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah? And and and for sure, especially you know, maybe
not so much with a rookie who's just trying to
figure it out, but like like you, for example, right
like after after plays, I'd run up to you and
be like, hey, what'd you see because I'd want to
you might have done something that you know, by the
letter of the law wasn't correct. But I would ask
you what you see, and I'd ask you why, And
(11:39):
a lot of times you would give me a really
good explanation and I'd kind of smirk and be like, yeah,
that makes sense. And then there's sometimes be like, okay,
but please don't do that again because I'm going to
hear from solid Kyle and it's just, hey, you know,
we can't be doing that, but I do want I'm
always asking why. I want to know what people see.
I want to know what they think because Ultimately, I
want I've always wanted players to be comfortable within the scheme, right,
(12:01):
and it's like, sure, what do you think on third
and seven? Coverage wise? What do you think of this
wide out? And what do you within a series? And
let's go have a conversation and try to get it called.
I mean, you're the one out there playing, so it's
as long as it fits within the scheme. Like I
like all the calls. Like if I asked Micah, like, hey,
where do you want to line up? I can create
a one on one with the guard to tackle, Like
who do you want to line up against? I mean
(12:23):
he's gonna have more ownership than it. He's gonna want
to go out there and he's gonna have success whatever
he does anyway. But it's those conversations that we have
or you know, Quai, I want you to pick this
guard or this running back, Like what do you think
on this one? I like these three calls? How would
you rank him? I like him all so I'm gonna
but if a player knows that he's got some input
and he has some ownership, he's gonna put his best
(12:45):
foot forward. And I want guys to play the game
like that that's that's really really important to me.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
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Speaker 1 (14:02):
And you talked about how young your team is and
how drastic there's big changes being made. I think there's
a team in your division, the New England Patriots, who
had a similar amount of turnover and a new staff
and everything, and they were able to have some success
early on with you, with young guys just early establishing
their culture, a lot of buy in from the guys,
maybe a few select veterans here and there, you know,
(14:24):
some journeymen who were just able to put together a
really good season. And and does that give you a
little bit of confidence of what's possible within the division,
even though you know people may have a little bit
lower expectations just because of the cap situation. You lost
so many veterans, et cetera, et cetera. Do you still
feel like, hey, we'll have a chance to battle and
compete each and every week.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, I think, I mean, just like anything you would do,
I mean any situation I want to go in. I
want to win in everything that we do. You know,
I think the expectations for right now or like you
talked about, we have to build this foundation and build
this culture the right way. And I know people don't
want to hear like me say that, but I think
that's really important. And then you and I always talked
(15:06):
about competition, like you always talk I remember to this
day you always talked about to me when we first
got to San Francisco, we didn't quite have the competition
that you did in Seattle, and you talked about how
those best teams and the best defense is you have
to create that competition to push guys to improve every
single day. We need to create that by drafting these
players and signing some free agents. We need to create
(15:28):
that competitive way right now. And I think that's really important.
And then the other thing for me, it's going to
be I just I want to play harder than everybody
that we play against and if they're not living up
to that standard, there's going to be someone else in
back that I'm going to put in. So as long
as we start to do that, and we play hard
and we play smart and we coach well, then yeah,
I want to win in everything we can. What's that
(15:50):
going to look like, you're one, I'm not sure, you know,
but I'm excited to build it the right way, and
i want this thing to be built so we can
have sustain, sustained success over time. And that's really part
of the reason I liked his job so much is because,
you know, ownership has been awesome. Working with Sully's been awesome.
(16:11):
I think we have a shared vision, and you know,
I'm excited to start building it that way.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You guys end up drafting thirteen players, like you said,
and I'm sure you know, the the draft boards kind
of fluct you out way throughout that day. You know,
there's obviously surprises here and there, but you guys were
able to get Caden Proctor, Chris Johnson, Jacob Rodriguez, Caleb Douglas,
which one of these guys, you know, out of thirteen guys,
was probably the most surprising. Where you guys were like, man,
(16:39):
we weren't expecting him to be there, and he was
and it worked out.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Oh it's good. Probably if one guy I didn't think
would be there when we took him was probably Rodriguez.
I would have thought I would have been thought. I
thought he would have been picked sooner, just his college tape.
I think the upside. I think the potential. I think
leadership capability, the playmaking ability, the production. I thought he
(17:05):
would have been gone by that pick. So he was
when he was still there that one. We were all
pretty excited about that pick. I mean you could you
could even say the same. I mean, I know for
us like Procter, I mean that when he was still
available for us to pick, then when we picked, because
we moved back and got two extra picks, and he
was going to be the guy we took at eleven,
but we got him at twelve with two extra picks
(17:27):
on top of it, which I thought was an awesome
job by John Eric with his size and his potential
and how young he is. He's a guy that we
could be looking at down the road and people say, Wow,
how'd that guy get drafted at twelve at a premium
position with how young he is, how big he is,
and how talented he is. That one I think people
(17:47):
might look back on in a few years and try
to figure out what made him fall to right.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I think there's so much, you know, so much guesswork
in this draft because he's are human beings and you
just never know how they're going to react to the lead.
But I think a lot of that and a lot
of these projections kind of kind of get lost in that.
You know, they get away from the tape. So you
see Jacob right Reguez, his tape looked incredible, but then
you get into the nuance and they're like, well you
ran this forty times? His ten yards split is this?
(18:13):
And it's like his tape looks like he could be
one of the best linebackers in the National Football League.
When do we get away from that?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Like but no, but you're sure you're right though, But
like if you look, like if you look at the
guys we drafted, like just take a look at that
list and who we drafted on defense, like to try
up your ally. They're smart guys who love football. And
you know how we know they love football because watch
how hard they all play. I mean, you're talking about
some tough dudes. They're productive dudes, even like we took
(18:40):
the safety pretty late in the draft Taff from Texas.
I mean, you look at his production, how hard he plays,
and how instinctive he is, and the type of person
that he is. I just I think he did a
really great job with drafting competitive, smart, productive players who
the tape says they're already good football players.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah. I was just about to ask you something. You
pretty much answered my question. But I was going to
ask what traits were you looking at in these players
and what similarities did they have? But like you just said,
it's production, it's dog, it's you know that.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I want guys who love football, and like every
time I want tough guys who love football, and every
time we talk about well, how do you figure that out?
I can't figure that out on a zoom and I
can't figure that out if I spend a thirty visit
for an hour in my office. The way I can
figure it out is when I turn on the tape.
How hard does he play? Does he run to the ball,
What does it look like in the fourth quarter when
he's tired? How competitive is the guy? Is he one
(19:32):
of these guys putting his hands up and pointing at
a teammate. Is he clapping when he makes a mistake
and looking all around? Does he take the next playoff?
Is he you know? Is he turning stuff down?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Like?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Those are the guys that is we build it for this.
I don't want that. It's just I want the guys
who are going to be competitive on every down and
give everything that they have. I mean, shoot, man, you
were coming off of your achilles and you were running
on the backside. You know, I still tell people of
those stories. Man you were, you were running on the backside,
and I mean like like you were ten years earlier.
(20:05):
I mean I remember one of your first one on ones,
like you're not ready to go, and I remember you
got beat on a route. But man, the coolest part
in the world is you put your head down and
you just finished because you didn't care. Man, That's who
you were. And you know, not to make this about you,
but those are the type of guys that you win with.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
After the season's all said and done, you know, you're
in February, We're fast forward and down the line. What
do you want people to say about the team and
the season? Your team just had.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I want to see I want to see one all
the things that I talked about when they turn on
the tape. I want them to see a bunch of
guys that fly around, that play for each other, that
play smart, physical, tough football, and I want to see
improvement throughout the year. We got to be playing our
best football in the last game of the season. That
that's going to be so important, you know, and that
we celebrate some of those, you know, successes that we
(20:53):
have along the way, understanding that we're building this thing,
and those are the things that are really really important
to me.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It sounds like great things to talk about. Now. We
talked about your staff a bit off camera, but you're
able to bring some of the guys from Green Bay
with you Downard and Dugan, and you talked about the
time that you spent with them, and I think you
brought an offensive line assistant from maybe Boston College with you.
Talk about the way those relationships have manifested and how
(21:23):
important that is to continuity and just you know who
you are as a coach and a person.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, one, I think you win with people. Right, We're
going to go through We're going to go through adversity,
it's coming, right, you're either in it or it's coming.
It's going to happen. And when you go through hard moments,
I think you got to have people you trust, and
you got to have people that you know how they're
going to respond when bad things happen to get through them.
(21:50):
And when you go through the fire with people, it's
always nice to know who you're dealing with, so you know.
And Sean Duggan, who's our defensive coordinator. I met him
at Ohio State. He was he was my graduate assistant
and he sat next to me in the booth. And
when I tell you, like, after spending one year with him,
like he's a guy that in between series I'd ask
him the questions right, really super impressive, super smart. Played
(22:12):
the position at Boston College. So when I got the
BC job, I was like, he's definitely coming with me.
He was a captain there, made him a linebacker coach,
really good with the players, was still learning defense, and
by my fourth year there, I named him my defensive coordinator.
So obviously a ton of respect for him and his knowledge.
I saw him as a rising star. And then when
I got when I left and took the Green Bay job.
(22:33):
I told Matt. I was like, Matt, we're going to
hire the staff. And then at the end, I was like,
I need this guy, like he's I got to get him.
We'll name him the assistant linebacker coach, whatever we need,
but I need this guy. He's going to be a star.
And then Campy Anthony Campanell, he was my linebacker coach.
He left went to the Jags be there coordinator and
I said, Matt, we got to promote Shawn. And by
that point Matt was like, absolutely, this guy's a stud.
(22:55):
So he named Sean linebacker coach. And then when I
got the Miami job, you know, Matt interviewed him for
the coordinator job, and you know, I totally get that.
And if he named Sean the coordinator, understand he gets
to coordinate the Green Bay Packers. And he didn't. So
I asked Matt if, obviously, you know, I could take
him with me and be my coordinator. And Matt wasn't
(23:16):
going to hold him back to do that. So I
got a chance to bring Sean, which is so huge
for me because he's been with me for eight straight years.
He knows the scheme inside and out. He knows how
I think he knows what I want. So what he's
done now is he's organized it all for me. He's
presenting in front of the defense so I can go
in with the offense be the head coach right now.
We'll sit down and we'll talk, we'll meet, and then
(23:38):
once training camp hits, I'll take it back over. But
that allows me to be the head coach right now,
and I think, I think that's huge. I'm sitting in
the quarterback meetings, I'm sitting on the offense installs because
what I learned this go around is I got to
know everything that's going on. I just can't be the
defensive coach. I don't want the players just to see
me as the defensive coordinator. I want them to see
me and feel me as the head coach. And I
(23:59):
want to know. I want to know all the scheme.
So he's really allowed me to do that. And like
I said, I think he's a star and I'm very
grateful that he's with me. And then getting Ryan Downer.
Ryan was my dB coach in Green Bay and he
was with me in Cleveland too when I was with
the Browns. He was one of the assistants we actually
assure him. We had Aaron Glenn was my assistant dB coach,
(24:19):
Bobby Babbage was my assistant dB coach, and Ryan Down
of us. We had a really good dB group for
that year. So then Ryan, you know, Jonathan Gannon, wanted
to bring his dB coach and some guys on his staff,
which Matt told me. He's like, hey, you want Down,
I said, want him? Are you kidding me? This is
this is unbelievable because now I got the guy that
(24:40):
I've been with and sat in all those meetings for
two years. Now I'm totally I mean, he knows exactly
how I want it, he knows the details, he's a stud,
and I don't have to sit in. So I got
the linebacker guy, the dB guy, which has freed me
up so much. And Ryan will be a coordinator down
the road here pretty soon too. He's a great, great
human and he's a really good football coach. And then
(25:01):
Matt Applebaum. He was my on line coach at Boston
College with NFL experience, so to get him as the
assistant online coach is huge. And then I also brought
Al Washington. I was the coaching at Notre Dame. He
was my linebacker coach at Ohio State. Al's got an
edge to him. Man, He'll get those guys run through
a wall. And that's what you need. Oh it is.
(25:23):
It is like him in camp. He are a lot
of like two of my favorite guys, but really good coach,
awesome person, and he'll get those linebackers playing run through people,
which is what we need.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
And then you you, you get to retain our guy
Bobby Slowick, Yeah, and promote him the coordinator, which yeah.
I love to see his ascension. I love to see
all these guys get the respect. He's such a great
offensive line and a brilliant, brilliant man. How cool was
that you know, somebody, another person that you've kind of
come full circle with.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, it's huge. I mean, think about it. Bobby was
coaching defense with us those first couple of years. It
was like me and him and Salah in the room.
He so he knows all the defensive rules. I mean,
you know him. He's so smart. I mean and as
a person, I mean, I mean what a stud is
a guy? So to have that on the other side
of the ball, knowing how detailed he's going to be organized,
(26:14):
He's going to be I mean he's been trained by arguably,
you know, one of the best play callers in the
last however many years, and just to have that in
the room and listen to him do it, I mean,
it's really it's really cool to be back with him
and have a guy I truly trust on the other
side of the ball. I mean, I even think when
I coached Agains him when he was at Houston. I mean,
he did a really good job there. I mean, he
(26:35):
really did. And I know things don't always work out,
but he's a guy who deserves another shot. And shoot,
he interviewed for head jobs after his first or second
year there, and you know, I'm hopeful that he'll have
success here and he'll have a chance because I think
he'd be an awesome head coach as well.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I think sometimes when you when you get to play
without the burden of expectation, it like frees you. You know,
it frees a lot of people to really be who
they are. I think sometimes the burden of expectation people don't.
They feel constrained. So I look forward to getting to
see him kind of go out there and be free
and coaches tail off and watch guys grow and mature.
(27:12):
Another question I got, because you're moving out of the booth.
He's moving out of the booth back to the field.
You can't be a head coach in the booth. How's
that feel?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Well you probably don't remember this, but Salo wanted me
up in the booth when you were that year in
San Francisco, and you came and you were like, no,
I need you to be on the field, No way.
So I had to be on the field there, which
was which was great. It would be fun to be
back on the field. Honestly, the last few years, I
just felt I felt it was best for who we
(27:43):
had on defense for me to be up there. See it,
take my notes, be calm about it. There were times
I wanted to be down on the field, like there
were moments, especially when adversity hits and you want to
get get your hands on them and be with them.
So there's pluses and minuses. But I'm excited to get
back I got down the field. It'll be fun. I'll
keep my cool and be level headed and and uh
(28:05):
and and try not to cause any problems down there.
But I'll never forget. I was all fired up to
go to the booth and I said, Salah.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Sure wants me now, so hold him down here.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Now I'm going down. I gotta be with him on
the sideline.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I appreciate that. I appreciate you you doing that for me.
Are you going to because because right now, I mean,
I guess most of the league is analytics guys, but
you know there's still a couple of old school, you
know guys that don't really live by the analytics that way.
But are you gonna be an analytics guy? Are you
gonna be a look at the page and see should
you go for it on fourth and one? Or are
(28:38):
you gonna be a feel by the you know, feel
good guy.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I'm gonna want to know. I'm gonna want to know
what the analytics says, but I'm gonna go on. I'm
gonna go based on what I think is best for
our team in the moment in the game. I think
just you know, for some guys, just going off the
paper and off the numbers is fine. I just no,
I want to. I want to. I want to get
a feel for the game. That's kind of how I
ended up my last couple of years at PC. Just
(29:04):
tell me what the analytics say and then let me
make a decision based on the flow of the game,
how I feel, and what the team needs for me
in the moment. I mean there's some moments, man, when
you decide not to go for it, your team's going
to kind of look at you sideways too. And when
those guys are telling you to go forward at times
it's you know they're going to get it for you. You
got to make some decisions like that too. And then
there's others where they're going to say go from like,
(29:25):
no way, guys, chill out. We got to pump the
ball right here. But I got to make those decisions
on what's best for each individual game and how I feel.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, you got guys like Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson
who are kind of like becoming the poster boys for
just like a different kind of NFL where these used
to be just a guaranteed punt situation. With these guys,
you just like, you really never know. Dan Campbell might
just go for it and might just say, screw the rules,
screw the analytics. It's fourth and three. We could tie it,
but we want to win and we're going for it. It's
(29:55):
worked out sometimes and at times it hasn't but you
know that you live by what you live by.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Defense on the on the plus thirty to start a
series either so if we can punt it, we're gonna
punt it. It's already hard enough show. And we get
the ball on the thirty five. Now on a touchback,
so I mean, you get one first down, and now
with these kickers, one first down, one explosive play is
three points. So I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's really crazy. It's really crazy, and everybody's trying to
find a loophole in it a way to kick. You know,
the NFL took out the little small loophole of kicking
it out of bounds at the certain spot, and you know,
but it just sucks. They taking they're taking away great defense.
Like you want to score points. You've done everything to
handicap the defense. Now you're just saying, hey, offense, here's
(30:39):
fifteen free yards. Well you don't even have to earn
them anymore. This is just for you guys. But and
now kickers can kick it from this kick it sixty
five yard field goal.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So it's like, just get it first down, you get
a first down and got a chance.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
That's crazy. Last question, and then I'll let you go.
I've had I don't want to hold you all day.
But we've had some great dvs on the show the
past few weeks. We had Charles Woodson, we had Rod Woodson,
we had Champ Bailey, We've had Prime. We'll have Prime again,
I'm sure. But who is like you're a a as
(31:13):
a football mind, as great defensive coach. Who's your top
five dbs of all time?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Oh gosh, how about I just named it to three?
How about I named how many? Here's the three I'm
gonna name Darrelle Reeves, Rendez Barber, Richard Sherman because I
got a chance to work with all three, so I
know exactly what it looked like. And this is take you.
We'll take you out of the equation sor everybody doesn't
think I'm just being nice to you. Like the difference
(31:39):
between the guys that I'm talking about and the rest
is the mindset and how they all practiced. And what
I've learned and what I try to tell people is
it's not just talent. It's not what it looks like
when we just go out and do individual it's a
mindset and a competitive edge that most people don't have.
It's and I joke about it all the time, but
(32:00):
it's when the head coach says it's a walk through
and the ball belongs to the offense and they're going
to catch the ball, and there's no PBUs. Those guys
weren't okay with that, and they weren't going to let
a guy ever catch a ball on them. That's just
not how it was. And you know exactly what I'm
talking about, because we'd have to get yelled at for
it because you'd be breaking the ball up and Revis
wouldn't be okay if a guy caught a ball on them,
(32:20):
and Rondez Barber was not okay if a guy ever
caught a ball on them. There's too many guys right
now that it's okay. I just got a ball cut
on me, No big deal. Yeah it is a big deal.
Like take it personal. That's your job. Don't let them
catch the ball on you, ever, and if not, line
up and do something about it. I just certain guys
have that mindset. There's just there's not many of them.
(32:41):
So I've been fortunate enough to see it firsthand and
learn from it and try to teach from it and
use those guys as examples. But I mean that's three
Hall of Fame guys that I got a chance to
be around, observed, ask questions, coach them, whatever you want
to call it, But I've been I've been lucky to
be on some good ones.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Appreciate that. I appreciate that. That means a lot to me.
Have it means a lot. You know, our friendship means
a lot. You know, you're one of my favorite coaches
of all time, and I'm grateful for the time that
we had together in San Francisco. I'm great to be
able to be a fan and watch you continue to
grow and flourish on your journey and get the head
coaching position that you deserve. And you know, I know
you'll you'll turn this franchise around and get them winning
(33:23):
and get them back to where they deserve to be.
If you got anything else you want to tell the
fans or you want to say, feel free, But I'm
just grateful for the time that you spent with me
and giving me this interview during what I know is
a chaotic off season for you.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
No, it's all good, man. I'm I'm happy to see
you and no, just excited about what we're gonna build.
We're gonna do it the right way with the right
type of people. And I'm just I'm really glad to
be here. I mean, the support has been awesome. I
just I am really fired up to be here and
get this thing started. I can't wait for Rotias to start,
can't wait for training camp and eventually I'll be fired
(33:59):
up to kick off. Thank you for having me on
Sherman and hopefully we'll talk soon.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yes, we will definitely talk soon. I mean, the weather
in December in South Beach is gonna be a lot
different than Green Bay. But you know, I'll let you
get there. I'll let you cross that bridge when you
get there.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Oh man, all right, Well, I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Talk to you soon. Man. I appreciate you.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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