January 13, 2026 • 33 mins
BREAKING NEWS – After a crushing loss to the Texans in the Wild Card Round of the NFL playoffs, head coach Mike Tomlin and the Steelers have agreed to mutually part ways. Colin talks with NFL reporter Robert Mays about the reason Tomlin and the Steelers split and where Tomlin could end up next season.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
And it's just being reported.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Mike Tomlin has officially stepped down after a historic nineteen
season run. According to Adam Schefter and Jeremy Fowler, the
Steelers will be looking for their first coach, only their
fourth coach since the late sixties. Kevin Stefanski. Howe sweet
would that be? The Browns let him go? Two time
NFL Coach of the Year, Pittsburgh picks him up, That's
(00:50):
where I would go.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And I'll be.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Honest with you, I'm not so sure the front office
I'm in love with either.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I think it's the right move. People.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Mike the fable on our show yesterday, saying he knew
Tomlin wouldn't be fired, but he can see him stepping down.
And I don't know how those things get negotiated behind
the scenes, but you know when when you know fans
are channing, you know, fire Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It's time.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I think Mike will pick up a network job. I
mean I I would be shocked if he was not
on the phone this morning with his agent. He'll make uh,
don't don't. I could give you the networks in order
of where he's gonna go. I'm not gonna do that
at this point, but yeah, Mike, it's time, like they
(01:41):
And by the way, I think it's not just Tomlin.
I think Mike's going to take a year off. But
because I don't think there's a lot of great jobs,
I would not be shocked. The winner in this is
the New York Giants. You know. Now they've got Harbaugh,
Stefanski and my Tomlin. Suddenly it went from a lean
(02:03):
coaching market to the best in a long time.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So stop it, all the coordinators.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
If you can hire Tomlin, Harbar, Kevin Stefanski, you hire
them like a Vrabel, like a Harball, like a Sean Payton,
stop messing around. So also, Tomlin is a culture guy.
He's not a scheme guy. He's very much like Harbaugh
and Vrabel. And so my take is what the Giants need.
(02:30):
I mean, they can hire Stefanski. I think it'd be
a good coach. The Giants need a culture guy. They're
a mess. Well, that's what John Harbaugh is, that's what
Mike Tomlin is. In fact, I'm just thinking in the
recesses of my mind. Did Tomlin say, listen, I saw
Jackson dark play. Harbaugh thinks he's got that job. I'm
gonna go steal that New York Giant job from John Harbaugh.
(02:55):
These guys are all alphas, all competitive, but I think
it's time. I think Pittsburgh needs a reset as an organization.
It's easy to just blame Mike Tomlin, but the GM
stepped down and they brought somebody that had been in
house a long time. I think they need a young,
(03:17):
high risk, high reward GM. I think they need to
go get an offensive coach. If I was the Steelers,
I would offer the job today to Kevin Stefanski. That's
what I would do. Go get an offensive coach. And
if I was Kevin Stefanski, I call Aaron and say
thank you so much, I'm going to go find my
(03:37):
next guy. I think a lot of these coaches Aaron
Glenn didn't. I don't think they want to inherit. They
don't want to inherit. Aaron Rodgers at forty two. So
NFL head coaching vacancys are now up to nine, including
three of the four teams in the AFC North. So
(03:58):
the Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Giants, Titans, Falcons, Cardinals, Raiders, Dolphins
have openings. Ravens is the best job they have. Lamar
good roster. I don't know if there's a clear too.
Steelers Giants have some things I like about both. Again,
(04:22):
when I said a couple of years ago, I'd moved
TJ Watt and get more picks, that was outrageous. TJ's
zero for five in the playoffs. How outrageous is it. Yeah,
there's a bunch of bad jobs, and then there's the
Ravens job. I think you'd probably say Giants Steelers. I
like some stuff on the offensive side, plus Abdul Carter
(04:44):
for the Giants, and I like the I mean, if
Steelers have a Packers feel like, you know, there's not
a lot of chaos in the building, but I think
they got to take some swings upstairs and on the sidelines.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
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Speaker 3 (05:35):
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Speaker 4 (05:42):
Boy.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
He's an NFL writer for The Athletic and the host
of The Athletic Football Show. Robert Mays is sensational previously
at Grantlin and The Ringer, and he is now joining
us on the news that Mike Tomlin has decided to go.
I think there's needs to be a house cleaning inside
the organization.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
This too much money on defense.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I think it's easy to blame Tomlin, who's an elite motivator.
He'll be a great TV analyst or he'll get the
Giants job. I mean, it's that New York Giants, don't
you know? The winner in this, Robert, the winner is
the Giants. They got a hard boss Tofanski and Tomlin,
that's pretty meaty. The other winner to me is Brian
Dable because now we have nine openings and I thought
(06:22):
he was on the edge of getting a job. But
with nine, I think Brian Dabole winning a playoff game
with Daniel Jones now gets a head coaching job.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Let's start with Tomlin. Though you did a show.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right after the game last night and after the loss,
Let's start with what your initial reaction was on Tomlin
that it was time. I think it was time for
both sides.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
And I never thought that the Steelers would fire Mike Tomlin,
and they didn't. I think it was going to be
a conversation, and I feel like we were in a
place with both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it
was mutually beneficial for them to go their separate ways.
This had run out of road on so many different fronts,
so we could talk about this. But the Steelers are
poised to go from being one of the oldest teams
in the league to kind of having a little bit
(07:03):
of a youth movement. They have a ton of picks
this year. They can move on from guys like TJ.
Watt and Cam Hayward over the next couple of years.
It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild, and
I feel like somebody else coming in with a new
vision to kind of shepherd that version of the organization
that made sense for them and for Tomlin. You have
no pathway to a quarterback right now. If you're the
(07:23):
Steelers head coach. I think him either taking a year
away the same way Sean Payton did, or just moving
to a different situation where the team is positioned differently
for both parties. I felt like this was the right
time to say goodbye, and so I'm not shocked or
surprised to see this.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Who do you think is the leading candidate for that job.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
It's a great question because I heard you say earlier
that you could see them going with an offensive coach,
and I would completely understand that if they wanted to
go with a guy like Kevin Stefanski. I do think
that's pretty far removed from what the tomlin eraw was,
and I think that's appealing in some ways.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I get that.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I also think this is an organization that's has not
been afraid to do things that are unconventional. When they
hired Mike Tomlin, he was a thirty five year old
kind of anonymous assistant that they thought was the right
guy for the job, and so I wouldn't be surprised
if all the options were on the table. I think
a lot of organizations do want to do something that's
(08:18):
distinct from what just came before it. I don't know
if the Steelers are necessarily going to jump at that.
I feel like there are gonna be a lot of
different kinds of candidates that they consider for this sort
of job, kind of in the same way that the
Ravens seem to.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Be Yeah, wow, Does this change?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I mean, I would think now.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I said about an hour ago, Aaron Rodgers retires or
goes to the Vikings, I didn't think he was going
to run it back. Now that Tomlin's gone. Does that
change the Aaron Rodgers equation?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I think it makes it less likely.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I just don't understand why you would kind of pigeonhole
yourself into that version of the team when again, it
feels like you're kind of closing the book and starting
anew year. They have evan picks in the top four
rounds this year and five picks in the top one
hundred already. On offense, they have one of the youngest
offensive lines in the league, and on defense, there are
a lot of guys that I do not think will
(09:11):
be back next year if you are kind of transitioning
to a different version of the team. Jaywen, Ramsey, Darius
Slay was on the team this year. Again, they were
one of the oldest teams in the NFL. I expect
them when we wake up in the middle of next
season and you look at the ages of these rosters
to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL.
And I'm just not sure how a forty two year
old Aaron Rodgers jives with that.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Okay, let's talk. Let's talk New York Giants.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So I've always felt the Ravens could use a play
caller that just is Kumbaya with Lamar Jackson. Let's get
the Lamar thing right, it's his franchise. I could see
Stefanski being a great fit. The Giants need a culture guy.
They've had a warped culture for a decade. To me,
that screams Tomlin and Harball. Not that Kevin couldn't do it, Robert,
(09:58):
but I think I just think of Stefanski as quarterback, strong,
offensive minded. If I give you I mean, would Tom
would even be interested in the Giants or do you
think he does TV? And Harbaugh is the leader of
the clubhouse.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
In New York. If Tom Win wants a job, I
think you should be interested in the Giants. I was
talking to somebody who's been interviewing for a lot of
these jobs over the last couple of weeks a few
days ago, and we were talking about how you stack
up the priorities for why these jobs are appealing and
why they aren't. And we are trying to kind of
tear out if you were talking about quarterback, ownership, the
quality of the roster, all of this, how would you
(10:34):
do it? And his first thing was quarterback and ownership
I think should be at the top.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And if that's the case, and you look.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
At the Giants, even if you're worried about the GM,
even if you're worried about certain elements of the roster,
they at least have a promising young quarterback and the
ownership there is stable.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
There's stability there. There's going to be patients there.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I think the Giants as an organization are more attractive
to people in the NFL than they are to the
general book right now because of how bad they've been recently,
and so I think that makes sense for John Harbaugh.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, yeah, it's like when Brady went to the Bucks.
They needed a right tackle and they got Tristan Wurst
and he brought Gronk down. They knew if they could
shore up the old line, everybody knew, like, oh, that's
that's a really really interesting roster. Because Jason Light's been
a great GM forever. I look at the Giants similarly,
get a right tackle. It's a tackle heavy draft. If
(11:28):
I'm the Giant, If you told me John Harbaugh they
saw right tackle Scataboo, Jackson, Dart, Neighbors, Andrew Thomas that
in that division, I don't listen. We just saw this
with Vrabel, Ben Jonson and Liam Cohen. And by the way,
let's talk about that three guys Mike McDonald the year before,
(11:50):
three guys came in and took messes, some of them disasters,
and cleaned them up. Is that maybe why we have
nine opening?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I think it has to be.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
And I think the Seahawks are actually a really good
parallel to what we're looking at with the Steelers. Pete
Carroll had been consistently good for a very long time.
They're constantly in the mix the exact same way the
Steelers were, but you had questions about the ceiling. This
is a team that hadn't won a playoff game in
seven eight years. They were consistently getting bounced early when
they did get in. It didn't feel like they had
(12:23):
a ceiling as an organization. And you get to the
end of that twenty twenty three season and say, you
know what, Pete, we appreciate everything you've done.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
It's time for us to move in a different direction.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
You go get a Mike McDonald who's on the cutting
edge defensively in the NFL. He is the Sean McVay
of that side of the ball, and you have seen
the ways that he has lifted the ceiling for that team.
And I think the Steelers are in a very similar situation.
And when you have these guys that can come in
in one year and you see this huge jump not
only with the wins and losses, but with the ceiling
(12:51):
of the team, feels like I think you're going to
see more and more owners have a quick hook because
something like that could be on the table.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Marcus Freeman note opinion on him, like the NFL team
circling back on him.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I think it may be possible in this cycle.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Because this cycle is strange with the candidate pool in
most other years, I think defaulting to the offensive coach.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
That's my personal bias.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
If I'm trying to build the perfect archetype of NFL
head coach, just based on the percentages and which guys
usually succeed and which guys usually win, I want the
offensive play calling head coach. In last year's cycle, I
want Ben Johnson, I want Liam Cohen. There are not
a lot of clear cut candidates that fit that model.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
This year.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Clint Kubiak, after one year with the Seahawks, has gotten
a handful of interviews because he's really one of the
only guys. And so I think because this pool specifically
doesn't fall in line with what organizations have been chasing
over the last few years, it opens the door for
maybe a couple guys who don't fit the mold getting
some of these jobs.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Man, this is really really fascinating nine openings. I mean
just three weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
If you just said Stefanski, John Harball, Mike Tomlin, nine openings,
let me let me throw a team. We don't talk
about a lot. I think the Titans is sneaky interesting.
I really, you know, I know Robert, they're out mass.
I think cam Ward's pretty talented guy. I think I'm
(14:23):
gonna throw this out there. Brian Dabell interviews Friday. Dabel
gets the Titans job. Does that sound crazy to you?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
No, it doesn't sound crazy because again, there aren't that
many offensive coaches in the cycle. And if you're steadfast
with Tennessee being like, we need an offensive coach to
pair with cam Ward, there are only four or five
guys that I think are hot candidates that you're really
thinking about. So if Dabe was in the mix of that,
I totally understand. With Tennessee specifically, they'd check O out
of the boxes. They have a quarterback who at least
(14:52):
showed promise this year. The numbers are bad, but you
could talk yourself into cam Ward pretty easily. There's roster flexibility.
They have resources to go out and spend and try
to improve that thing quickly. The question what's gonna see
is going to be ownership. How do you feel about
going into a place that has been dysfunctional, that has
been impatient, that has kind of changed the target and
(15:14):
moved the goalposts a lot over the last five years.
If you trust their new infrastructure with Mike Borganzi as
the gm WI Shad Brinker as the president, and you
think that there is a new found stability there that
kind of insulates you from what Amy Adams Trunk has
done over the last few years. There are some parts
of that job that I do think are pretty appealing.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I have defended Matt Lafleur. I said he won the
first half against Ben Johnson. I always feel the first
half is the game plan and the script half. The
second half a lot of times that's off script and
Caleb Williams and Josh Allen and Mahlmes make plays, But
the first half's always felt like that's the week's work.
Your first three series, that's the week's work. I thought
(15:53):
Matt had a very good first half. When you look
at the Packers' loss and I know it's all and
Lafleur's probably going to retain his job. Where do we
point the fingers on it because I didn't think Ben
Johnson Robert. I thought he kind of over I thought
he was a little desperate going forward in the first half.
I thought he got too cute too often his first playoff.
(16:15):
You know, as the coach, I get it. Everybody in
Green Bay, every chief hid get him out of here.
Where do you point the fingers with Green Bay's loss?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I think the quality of the offensive line and their
struggles in the second half had a big, big part
in it. Their inability to run the ball in the
second half, the fact that Jordan Love was pressured so
much more than he was in the first half. I
think you saw the fact that they had some component
parts change out.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
They had a backup right tackle in there.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
They had a left tackle who's a solid player, but
not a great player. Is going to be hitting free agency.
This roster does not have a lot of stars on it.
That was their problem over the last couple of seasons.
It was a good roster, but not a roster with
a lot of high end talent. That's why you go
out and get Micah Parsons. Well, Michael Persons didn't play
in that playoff game. Michaelsach Tom might have been their
(17:01):
best player on offense other than the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
He didn't play in that game.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
And so in a lot of ways, the Packers of
twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four talent wise, are
the team that showed up last weekend, and so you
had a similar end that you've had over the last
couple of years. I get if you're frustrated, if you're
a Packers fan. I don't want to diminish that, but
I still feel like if you look at the results
over the last three seasons, this hasn't really been a
team that's underachieved. It's a team that just is kind
(17:27):
of plateaued when we've gotten to the end of the year.
But I think they're still young, and I think there's
still a ceiling here. And this to me feels different
than the Tom Win conversation than the Harbaugh conversation. If
I were the Packers, I would want Matt Lafleur back,
and so I'm not surprised that that's where it seems
to be trending.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
By the way, I want to circle back to Tomlin.
So Sean Payton left New Orleans and he came to
Fox and Sewn and I went to dinner, and we
talked and we teckted it a lot. We talked every
week we had an interview, and we would talk before
we went on the air, on the air and off
the air, and the before and afterwards way better than
the on the air stuff. And we talked a lot
about it, and I kept saying, dude, you know some
(18:05):
of the analysts at Fox, you know they don't want
to do this stuff forever. Jimmy Johnson likes to fish. Okay,
like I said, stick around for about five years here.
And he's like, oh no, yeah, maybe what we'd talk
about the broadcasting thing, and he's just got too many
things ruminating upstairs.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
There's no way he could do broadcasting.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And he took the Denver job without Russell Wilson cap
hit and I'm like, yeah, you're in the division with Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I don't know if I like that. Well it works.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So I look at Tomlin and I think Tomlin's a
competitive guy. He's not a sit put a nice suit
on and talk football. He could do it for a
year and he'd probably be unbelievably great. He's just he's
a quote.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
He's great.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
But what about this that Mike Tomlin does a Peyton
and says, I don't like the coach, I don't like
the job.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Pool in one year.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Now, the Green Bay thing could be I guess might
take it. Dallas could come. Shottenheimer may get one more year, right,
looks like he will. Do you think there's a play
for Tomlin to do TV for a year and then
like Sean Payton, who said, oh, the richest owners in
the league, Oh, we got a first round pick and
it's a great quarterback draft, do you think there is
(19:19):
a possibility that in a year, if we got nine
this year, that maybe better jobs happen in a year
from now.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
I'm sure Sean saw the check and didn't really mind
the Patrick Mahomes Andy read were waiting around.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
They seemed to enjoy that, and I don't blame him whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I think with the quality of the jobs of Tom Whin,
I think that matters a little bit less, just because
I think he'll have options when he comes to it.
I think there will always be a job in every
cycle that is probably worth taking.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
If you're Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
The year off to me is most interesting because I
think guys can benefit from a year off.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
If I'm Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
I think that where I would sit back and evaluate
who I was as a coach and what did I
needed to be moving forward would be in how you
build your staff and how you seek out coordinators on
both sides of the ball. That's massively important when you're
a coach like Mike Tomlin, who is one of these
CEO type head coaches. The guys who've been successful in
that role, who've gotten further than the Steelers have over
(20:13):
the last couple of years, are the guys that have
been really good at finding the right people. That's why
I have faith in John Harbaugh in his next stop
in a way I might not have with a Pete Carroll.
Is that John consistently in Baltimore understood when he needed
to change out coordinators and why he hires Mike McDonald.
He goes and gets Todd Monkin when the Greg Roman
things runs out of road. If I'm Mike Tomlin, I
(20:36):
want to take a step back and for a year
just visit with people around the league. Talk to people
who should I be seeking out? What should my offense
look like? Who are the people that I should build
my staff with. Just take yourself out of that small,
kind of insulated world when you're the head coach and
your head is down all the time, and just think
about how you need to build things moving forward for
(20:57):
you to be successful. Because I think if he surrounds
him so with the right ideas, he is such a
good coach and a good motivator that that overall construction
and that overall model that would be appealing to me
if I were an owner trying to fill one of
these jobs.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
How about this nine openings?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Do you think it's possible based on either results this
weekend or a Bushati John Harbaugh bad phone call, there'll
be another job opening? Or do you believe the Browns, Cards, Dolphin, Falcons, Giants, Raiders, Ravens, Steelers, Titans?
Is it or there's just one that you're kind of
wondering about any I don't know what.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
That would be. Meagles, Eagles, Eagles. Maybe I'd be surprised
about that. I think they won the Super Bowl last year.
They've had enough evidence where if they have the right
coordinators in that building, they can be successful and competitive.
I think they swap out the offensive coordinator before they
move on from Sirianni. I think twenty twenty six becomes
all right, we got to see it before we decide
(21:59):
whether we were to.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Go in a new direction. I think they stayed the course.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
The other one that obviously we've talked about over the
last couple of years is what happens with Buffalo. I
think right now, you watch what they did on defense
against the Jags last week. Yeah, the Bill's defense and
how well coached that Bill's defense has been in certain
moments when they don't have a lot of talent. I
honestly think even if it ends in the divisional round,
this is the year I have felt best on what
(22:23):
McDermott is providing for the Bills than I have over
the last couple of years. And so on that front,
I think I'd be surprised if they moved on. And
I think that's really the only one that even might
make sense given the teams that are left.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Robert mays the Athletic Football Show terrific.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Well, that Mike Tomlin detour for the last fifteen minutes.
It is nine openings is the most since twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So wow, this is just wild, Robert? Is it really?
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Is?
Speaker 4 (22:54):
It?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Really is?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
No? I mean it's like this is something I talked
about several years ago owners used to be worth six
hunder fifty million. Now they're worth four billion, and they
can just write those checks. They can just clean the
staff out. Here's sixty million. I'm starting over. I made
that yesterday on my tech stocks, you know. I mean,
it's just a different world. They're more impulsive. But to
your point, they're watching Rabel and Jim Harbaugh and Liam
(23:19):
Cohen and Mike McDonald and they're like, yeah, I'm gonna
do this. Just get the right guy to Miko Ryans.
Before Demico got that job, I thought Houston was the
biggest has Matt spill in the league an hour before
he took that job. Nick Cassari, I mean, didn't we
think five years ago, four years ago the worst franchise honestly,
(23:40):
wasn't it Houston.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
It was the most forgettable franchise. It was the most
irrelevant franchise in the league. They existed in complete anonymity
for like four years.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
But you just feel how differently things can change.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Think about the way the Bears are talked about when
it comes to ownership and the quality of the organization
and their entire reputation for the last five to ten years.
Ben Jonson's been there for eleven months, and how different
does it feel. It feels so different, And I think
that's why there's an allure to this, because you can
convince yourself that if you get the right guy, you
(24:15):
can change everything in an instant. And as long as
we have evidence that points to that, I think you're
gonna see owners operate this way.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Robert, great stuff. Asola's thanks go ID appreciate it. Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Nine openings, Yeah, I mean, Marcus Freeman, keep your eye on,
Brian Dabele, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Kevin Stefanski, Mike mc
I'll throw this up. Mike McDaniel, make it a second opportunity.
(24:49):
You say, wow, I mean Miami didn't end well, got
to the playoffs twice. What ammos a GM, Mike McDaniel
and Brian Dabele have got to be thinking nine openings.
I'm getting work, and I don't necessarily think it would.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Be a bad thing. The Herd.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Neon Eastern non a EM Pacific.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
All right.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Mike Tomlin's out in Pittsburgh. He informed the team today
the Rooneys that he was moving on. Art Rooney the
second released a statement, and you know it's always classy.
The Steelers are highly regarded. They take care of their
own basically. You know, during our meeting, Coach Tomlin informed
(25:35):
me he decided to step down. I'm grateful to Mike
dedication success we've shared over nineteen years. Hard for me
to put into words the level of respect and appreciation
I have for coach Tomlin guided the franchise to our
six Super Bowl Championship playoffs thirteen times during his tenure,
won the AFC North eight times in his career. Track
(25:56):
record of never having a losing season likely never be
dupe Lood, My family and I, everybody connected to the
Steelers management forever grateful for the passion and dedication Mike
Tomlin has devoted.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
To Steelers football. I mean, it's a hall of fame coach.
The resume is a hall of fame coach.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I also think you can be a Hall of Fame
CEO and a hall of Fame coach and feel like
you're not current. I don't necessarily think the Steelers under
Tomlin have felt current, right. They still need the kids
to get online, like they're just not quite current. That
(26:33):
doesn't mean if he hired a brilliant OC it couldn't help.
I think Arthur Smith and Aaron Rodgers were a little
duct tape on sort of the cultural issue with them,
which is to just spend too much damn money on
the wrong side of the ball. So here's Robert May's
from The Athletic earlier on Tomlin stepping down.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I think it was time for both sides, and I
never thought that the Seelers would fire my Tomlin, and
they didn't. I think it was going to be a conversation,
and I feel like we were in a place with
both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it was mutually
beneficial for them to go their separate ways.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
The Steelers are poised.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
To go from being one of the oldest teams in
the league to kind of having a little bit of
a youth movement.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
They have a ton of picks this year. They can
move on from guys like TJ. Watt and Cam Hayward
over the next couple of years.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild, and
I feel like somebody else coming in with a new
vision to kind of shepherd that version of the organization
that made sense for them.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, I would go at offense.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I think I would consider Brian Dable, I would consider
Kevin Stefanski. I want somebody that's been a head coach.
I mean the coordinator stuff is a fifty to fifty proposition. Now,
you hit it out of the park with Ben Johnson,
But we were talking about Ben Johnson for three years,
like he was the talk of the league for three years.
Josh McDaniel also had multiple opportunities.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And didn't work.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Liam Cohen did, so there is no guarantee. But by
the way, Ben Johnson and hand Kayleb Williams pretty talented guy.
Liam Cohen inherited Trevor Lawrence, pretty talented guy. Whoever takes
a Steelers job, they don't have a quarterback. Whoever gets
the Giants has Jackson Dart So we all say, oh,
Liaan Cohen, Yeah, but he had a quarterback. Oh, Ben Johnson,
(28:14):
he had a quarterback. Oh, Mike Rabel, he had a quarterback.
Sean Payton drafted a quarterback he loved that was a
Drew Brees comp So these coordinators that you or any
of these coaches, you got to have the quarterback, right,
I'll be honest with you. If I'm Mike Tomlin, you
know what interests me.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Nine months? Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
They got Dak Prescott, all these even the legends, even
the Sean Payton's, even the.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Vrabels, even the you know, all the big guys, the
Jim Harbaughs.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, you get Justin Herbert, or you get Trevor Lawrence,
or you get somebody as talented as Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
What worries you about.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
The Pittsburgh Steelers and what's great about the Ravens is
you get Lamar Jackson. That's why the Ravens jobs by
far and away the best. You'd take the Ravens over
the Steelers ten out of ten times I get Lamar Jackson.
I would take the Giants over the Steelers. I have
Jackson Dart. Okay, So Steelers right now is a third job.
(29:13):
Who's the quarterback? Aaron's not the answer. And Aaron's personality
is not the kind that like a Stefanski would go, yeah,
that's that's that's not it. I mean, the Vikings knew
that JJ McCarthy couldn't stay healthy, and they had huge concerns,
and they passed on Aaron. So I don't think Aaron's
going to be the clean that's not an attractive thing.
(29:34):
I think it was attractive for Tomlin knowing the end
was coming. It's not going to be for like a
first time coach or a second time coach. Aaron's not
going to be that attractive. So I think the best
job is where your quarterbacks at. You start looking at
all these coaches that have worked. I mean, Mike McCarthy
goes to Dallas, he won twelve games three times, he
inherited Dak. Try to find the guys that go to
(29:57):
an organization that have no idea what they're doing a quarterback,
because that's the Steelers, and I honestly I think Tomlin knows.
Tomlin's smart. Tomlin's like in one year cowboy job potentially.
I mean, you start looking around the league. Next year,
I'll throw another one out. There's talk about Andy Reid
(30:17):
retiring in a year. McDermott loses this weekend by three touchdowns.
I mean, I'm just as I'm saying, we got nine openings,
we could have ten.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
We could have.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Another nine next year, so you know, keep your eyes open.
Mike McCarthy, by the way, is from Pittsburgh. Keep your
you think I'm crazy, j Mack. Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Yeah, there's no way Mike McCarthy's taking this job. Colin, Listen,
Mike Tomlin had an amazing run, but this is not
an attractive job opening. I get the whole ownership thing, stability,
all that wonderful. All the guys that took over, Mike
Tomlin taking over for Coward had a quarterback in Ben Roethlisberger.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Just on a Super Bowl. I would argue.
Speaker 6 (31:03):
Pittsburgh is the eighth or ninth most desirable job on
the market, right there with Arizona.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
Colin, I just look, they've got the second oldest roster
in the league.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
We've got a bunch of draft picks.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
Yeah, a bunch of draft picks. I look at blue
chip talent. I see maybe Joey Porter junior. Jalen Ramsey's declining.
I like high Smith. Cam Hayward is their highest graded
PFF player. He turns thirty seven in two months. They
don't have a quarterback. They're in a brutal division. There's
really nothing attractive about this job other than the ownership group.
I mean, Tennessee, at least you got Cam Ward, the Giants,
(31:34):
he got Jackson Dark, Atlanta's I mean, you just need
a quarterback, all the pieces in place. I look at Pittsburgh,
this is a major rebuild. And you know, following alleged
is tough. Right, we love Craft as an owner in
New England. Well guess what following Belichick gered Mayo? How
long did the owner stick with Mayo? He was going
in a year? But careful, well over, he's careful taking
(31:56):
this job.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Ravens you get Lamar Jackson, Giants you get Jackson Dark,
Raiders you get Fernando Mendoza. Yep, Titans you get cam Ward.
Those are the four places I get a quarterback I
can win.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
With Cleveland is not a desirable job. You know, they
will see what shador. I don't think he's the guy,
but I'm just telling you this Pittsburgh roster.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Go look at the salary cap.
Speaker 6 (32:18):
They do have some space, but like, is dk Metcalf
their second or third best player on the roster.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
The kid they drafted out of Georgia, Bryant Jones, all
of about can't stay healthy.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Doesn't matter? I mean I get that, but doesn't matter. Yeah,
they don't have a quarterback.
Speaker 6 (32:32):
Well you tell that to Mike McCarthy. Hey, Mike, you
want this job, I would almost guarantee he'd pass.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Yeah, I don't think it's that effected.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I want a quarterback. Cam Ward for four years is free.
Fernando Mendoza for four years will be free.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
What's the path to a quarterback for Pittsburgh?
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Because they've been on this nine and eight, ten and six,
ten and seven hamster wheel. I'd rather be four in
thirteen so you at least get bites at the apple
up high. I mean it's Pittsburgh's in a tough spot.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Listen.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
They had a great run, nothing last forever. I think
we're looking at some dark days ahead.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
If if you're Pittsburgh with all these picks, my takeaway,
you give out about six of them to go get
Ty Simpson in the first round. Say what you want,
it's something, Oh boy, I mean that's sexil.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Grab Ty Simpson before the Steelers do. Come on.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I wouldn't wish that upon anybody. I mean, they have
seven draft picks in the first four rounds. The Steelers
have the ammo, go get Ty Simpson.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Move up. You have to move up twenty five spots,
move up ten
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
And it's just being reported.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Mike Tomlin has officially stepped down after a historic nineteen
season run. According to Adam Schefter and Jeremy Fowler, the
Steelers will be looking for their first coach, only their
fourth coach since the late sixties. Kevin Stefanski. Howe sweet
would that be? The Browns let him go? Two time
NFL Coach of the Year, Pittsburgh picks him up, That's
(00:50):
where I would go.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And I'll be.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Honest with you, I'm not so sure the front office
I'm in love with either.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I think it's the right move. People.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Mike the fable on our show yesterday, saying he knew
Tomlin wouldn't be fired, but he can see him stepping down.
And I don't know how those things get negotiated behind
the scenes, but you know when when you know fans
are channing, you know, fire Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It's time.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I think Mike will pick up a network job. I
mean I I would be shocked if he was not
on the phone this morning with his agent. He'll make uh,
don't don't. I could give you the networks in order
of where he's gonna go. I'm not gonna do that
at this point, but yeah, Mike, it's time, like they
(01:41):
And by the way, I think it's not just Tomlin.
I think Mike's going to take a year off. But
because I don't think there's a lot of great jobs,
I would not be shocked. The winner in this is
the New York Giants. You know. Now they've got Harbaugh,
Stefanski and my Tomlin. Suddenly it went from a lean
(02:03):
coaching market to the best in a long time.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So stop it, all the coordinators.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
If you can hire Tomlin, Harbar, Kevin Stefanski, you hire
them like a Vrabel, like a Harball, like a Sean Payton,
stop messing around. So also, Tomlin is a culture guy.
He's not a scheme guy. He's very much like Harbaugh
and Vrabel. And so my take is what the Giants need.
(02:30):
I mean, they can hire Stefanski. I think it'd be
a good coach. The Giants need a culture guy. They're
a mess. Well, that's what John Harbaugh is, that's what
Mike Tomlin is. In fact, I'm just thinking in the
recesses of my mind. Did Tomlin say, listen, I saw
Jackson dark play. Harbaugh thinks he's got that job. I'm
gonna go steal that New York Giant job from John Harbaugh.
(02:55):
These guys are all alphas, all competitive, but I think
it's time. I think Pittsburgh needs a reset as an organization.
It's easy to just blame Mike Tomlin, but the GM
stepped down and they brought somebody that had been in
house a long time. I think they need a young,
(03:17):
high risk, high reward GM. I think they need to
go get an offensive coach. If I was the Steelers,
I would offer the job today to Kevin Stefanski. That's
what I would do. Go get an offensive coach. And
if I was Kevin Stefanski, I call Aaron and say
thank you so much, I'm going to go find my
(03:37):
next guy. I think a lot of these coaches Aaron
Glenn didn't. I don't think they want to inherit. They
don't want to inherit. Aaron Rodgers at forty two. So
NFL head coaching vacancys are now up to nine, including
three of the four teams in the AFC North. So
(03:58):
the Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Giants, Titans, Falcons, Cardinals, Raiders, Dolphins
have openings. Ravens is the best job they have. Lamar
good roster. I don't know if there's a clear too.
Steelers Giants have some things I like about both. Again,
(04:22):
when I said a couple of years ago, I'd moved
TJ Watt and get more picks, that was outrageous. TJ's
zero for five in the playoffs. How outrageous is it. Yeah,
there's a bunch of bad jobs, and then there's the
Ravens job. I think you'd probably say Giants Steelers. I
like some stuff on the offensive side, plus Abdul Carter
(04:44):
for the Giants, and I like the I mean, if
Steelers have a Packers feel like, you know, there's not
a lot of chaos in the building, but I think
they got to take some swings upstairs and on the sidelines.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
It's the hurt.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
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Speaker 3 (05:35):
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Speaker 1 (05:37):
YouTube, Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Boy.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
He's an NFL writer for The Athletic and the host
of The Athletic Football Show. Robert Mays is sensational previously
at Grantlin and The Ringer, and he is now joining
us on the news that Mike Tomlin has decided to go.
I think there's needs to be a house cleaning inside
the organization.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
This too much money on defense.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I think it's easy to blame Tomlin, who's an elite motivator.
He'll be a great TV analyst or he'll get the
Giants job. I mean, it's that New York Giants, don't
you know? The winner in this, Robert, the winner is
the Giants. They got a hard boss Tofanski and Tomlin,
that's pretty meaty. The other winner to me is Brian
Dable because now we have nine openings and I thought
(06:22):
he was on the edge of getting a job. But
with nine, I think Brian Dabole winning a playoff game
with Daniel Jones now gets a head coaching job.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Let's start with Tomlin. Though you did a show.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right after the game last night and after the loss,
Let's start with what your initial reaction was on Tomlin
that it was time. I think it was time for
both sides.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
And I never thought that the Steelers would fire Mike Tomlin,
and they didn't. I think it was going to be
a conversation, and I feel like we were in a
place with both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it
was mutually beneficial for them to go their separate ways.
This had run out of road on so many different fronts,
so we could talk about this. But the Steelers are
poised to go from being one of the oldest teams
in the league to kind of having a little bit
(07:03):
of a youth movement. They have a ton of picks
this year. They can move on from guys like TJ.
Watt and Cam Hayward over the next couple of years.
It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild, and
I feel like somebody else coming in with a new
vision to kind of shepherd that version of the organization
that made sense for them and for Tomlin. You have
no pathway to a quarterback right now. If you're the
(07:23):
Steelers head coach. I think him either taking a year
away the same way Sean Payton did, or just moving
to a different situation where the team is positioned differently
for both parties. I felt like this was the right
time to say goodbye, and so I'm not shocked or
surprised to see this.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Who do you think is the leading candidate for that job.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
It's a great question because I heard you say earlier
that you could see them going with an offensive coach,
and I would completely understand that if they wanted to
go with a guy like Kevin Stefanski. I do think
that's pretty far removed from what the tomlin eraw was,
and I think that's appealing in some ways.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I get that.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I also think this is an organization that's has not
been afraid to do things that are unconventional. When they
hired Mike Tomlin, he was a thirty five year old
kind of anonymous assistant that they thought was the right
guy for the job, and so I wouldn't be surprised
if all the options were on the table. I think
a lot of organizations do want to do something that's
(08:18):
distinct from what just came before it. I don't know
if the Steelers are necessarily going to jump at that.
I feel like there are gonna be a lot of
different kinds of candidates that they consider for this sort
of job, kind of in the same way that the
Ravens seem to.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Be Yeah, wow, Does this change?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I mean, I would think now.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I said about an hour ago, Aaron Rodgers retires or
goes to the Vikings, I didn't think he was going
to run it back. Now that Tomlin's gone. Does that
change the Aaron Rodgers equation?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I think it makes it less likely.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I just don't understand why you would kind of pigeonhole
yourself into that version of the team when again, it
feels like you're kind of closing the book and starting
anew year. They have evan picks in the top four
rounds this year and five picks in the top one
hundred already. On offense, they have one of the youngest
offensive lines in the league, and on defense, there are
a lot of guys that I do not think will
(09:11):
be back next year if you are kind of transitioning
to a different version of the team. Jaywen, Ramsey, Darius
Slay was on the team this year. Again, they were
one of the oldest teams in the NFL. I expect
them when we wake up in the middle of next
season and you look at the ages of these rosters
to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL.
And I'm just not sure how a forty two year
old Aaron Rodgers jives with that.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Okay, let's talk. Let's talk New York Giants.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So I've always felt the Ravens could use a play
caller that just is Kumbaya with Lamar Jackson. Let's get
the Lamar thing right, it's his franchise. I could see
Stefanski being a great fit. The Giants need a culture guy.
They've had a warped culture for a decade. To me,
that screams Tomlin and Harball. Not that Kevin couldn't do it, Robert,
(09:58):
but I think I just think of Stefanski as quarterback, strong,
offensive minded. If I give you I mean, would Tom
would even be interested in the Giants or do you
think he does TV? And Harbaugh is the leader of
the clubhouse.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
In New York. If Tom Win wants a job, I
think you should be interested in the Giants. I was
talking to somebody who's been interviewing for a lot of
these jobs over the last couple of weeks a few
days ago, and we were talking about how you stack
up the priorities for why these jobs are appealing and
why they aren't. And we are trying to kind of
tear out if you were talking about quarterback, ownership, the
quality of the roster, all of this, how would you
(10:34):
do it? And his first thing was quarterback and ownership
I think should be at the top.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And if that's the case, and you look.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
At the Giants, even if you're worried about the GM,
even if you're worried about certain elements of the roster,
they at least have a promising young quarterback and the
ownership there is stable.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
There's stability there. There's going to be patients there.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I think the Giants as an organization are more attractive
to people in the NFL than they are to the
general book right now because of how bad they've been recently,
and so I think that makes sense for John Harbaugh.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, yeah, it's like when Brady went to the Bucks.
They needed a right tackle and they got Tristan Wurst
and he brought Gronk down. They knew if they could
shore up the old line, everybody knew, like, oh, that's
that's a really really interesting roster. Because Jason Light's been
a great GM forever. I look at the Giants similarly,
get a right tackle. It's a tackle heavy draft. If
(11:28):
I'm the Giant, If you told me John Harbaugh they
saw right tackle Scataboo, Jackson, Dart, Neighbors, Andrew Thomas that
in that division, I don't listen. We just saw this
with Vrabel, Ben Jonson and Liam Cohen. And by the way,
let's talk about that three guys Mike McDonald the year before,
(11:50):
three guys came in and took messes, some of them disasters,
and cleaned them up. Is that maybe why we have
nine opening?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I think it has to be.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
And I think the Seahawks are actually a really good
parallel to what we're looking at with the Steelers. Pete
Carroll had been consistently good for a very long time.
They're constantly in the mix the exact same way the
Steelers were, but you had questions about the ceiling. This
is a team that hadn't won a playoff game in
seven eight years. They were consistently getting bounced early when
they did get in. It didn't feel like they had
(12:23):
a ceiling as an organization. And you get to the
end of that twenty twenty three season and say, you
know what, Pete, we appreciate everything you've done.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
It's time for us to move in a different direction.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
You go get a Mike McDonald who's on the cutting
edge defensively in the NFL. He is the Sean McVay
of that side of the ball, and you have seen
the ways that he has lifted the ceiling for that team.
And I think the Steelers are in a very similar situation.
And when you have these guys that can come in
in one year and you see this huge jump not
only with the wins and losses, but with the ceiling
(12:51):
of the team, feels like I think you're going to
see more and more owners have a quick hook because
something like that could be on the table.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Marcus Freeman note opinion on him, like the NFL team
circling back on him.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I think it may be possible in this cycle.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Because this cycle is strange with the candidate pool in
most other years, I think defaulting to the offensive coach.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
That's my personal bias.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
If I'm trying to build the perfect archetype of NFL
head coach, just based on the percentages and which guys
usually succeed and which guys usually win, I want the
offensive play calling head coach. In last year's cycle, I
want Ben Johnson, I want Liam Cohen. There are not
a lot of clear cut candidates that fit that model.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
This year.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Clint Kubiak, after one year with the Seahawks, has gotten
a handful of interviews because he's really one of the
only guys. And so I think because this pool specifically
doesn't fall in line with what organizations have been chasing
over the last few years, it opens the door for
maybe a couple guys who don't fit the mold getting
some of these jobs.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Man, this is really really fascinating nine openings. I mean
just three weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
If you just said Stefanski, John Harball, Mike Tomlin, nine openings,
let me let me throw a team. We don't talk
about a lot. I think the Titans is sneaky interesting.
I really, you know, I know Robert, they're out mass.
I think cam Ward's pretty talented guy. I think I'm
(14:23):
gonna throw this out there. Brian Dabell interviews Friday. Dabel
gets the Titans job. Does that sound crazy to you?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
No, it doesn't sound crazy because again, there aren't that
many offensive coaches in the cycle. And if you're steadfast
with Tennessee being like, we need an offensive coach to
pair with cam Ward, there are only four or five
guys that I think are hot candidates that you're really
thinking about. So if Dabe was in the mix of that,
I totally understand. With Tennessee specifically, they'd check O out
of the boxes. They have a quarterback who at least
(14:52):
showed promise this year. The numbers are bad, but you
could talk yourself into cam Ward pretty easily. There's roster flexibility.
They have resources to go out and spend and try
to improve that thing quickly. The question what's gonna see
is going to be ownership. How do you feel about
going into a place that has been dysfunctional, that has
been impatient, that has kind of changed the target and
(15:14):
moved the goalposts a lot over the last five years.
If you trust their new infrastructure with Mike Borganzi as
the gm WI Shad Brinker as the president, and you
think that there is a new found stability there that
kind of insulates you from what Amy Adams Trunk has
done over the last few years. There are some parts
of that job that I do think are pretty appealing.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I have defended Matt Lafleur. I said he won the
first half against Ben Johnson. I always feel the first
half is the game plan and the script half. The
second half a lot of times that's off script and
Caleb Williams and Josh Allen and Mahlmes make plays, But
the first half's always felt like that's the week's work.
Your first three series, that's the week's work. I thought
(15:53):
Matt had a very good first half. When you look
at the Packers' loss and I know it's all and
Lafleur's probably going to retain his job. Where do we
point the fingers on it because I didn't think Ben
Johnson Robert. I thought he kind of over I thought
he was a little desperate going forward in the first half.
I thought he got too cute too often his first playoff.
(16:15):
You know, as the coach, I get it. Everybody in
Green Bay, every chief hid get him out of here.
Where do you point the fingers with Green Bay's loss?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I think the quality of the offensive line and their
struggles in the second half had a big, big part
in it. Their inability to run the ball in the
second half, the fact that Jordan Love was pressured so
much more than he was in the first half. I
think you saw the fact that they had some component
parts change out.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
They had a backup right tackle in there.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
They had a left tackle who's a solid player, but
not a great player. Is going to be hitting free agency.
This roster does not have a lot of stars on it.
That was their problem over the last couple of seasons.
It was a good roster, but not a roster with
a lot of high end talent. That's why you go
out and get Micah Parsons. Well, Michael Persons didn't play
in that playoff game. Michaelsach Tom might have been their
(17:01):
best player on offense other than the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
He didn't play in that game.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
And so in a lot of ways, the Packers of
twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four talent wise, are
the team that showed up last weekend, and so you
had a similar end that you've had over the last
couple of years. I get if you're frustrated, if you're
a Packers fan. I don't want to diminish that, but
I still feel like if you look at the results
over the last three seasons, this hasn't really been a
team that's underachieved. It's a team that just is kind
(17:27):
of plateaued when we've gotten to the end of the year.
But I think they're still young, and I think there's
still a ceiling here. And this to me feels different
than the Tom Win conversation than the Harbaugh conversation. If
I were the Packers, I would want Matt Lafleur back,
and so I'm not surprised that that's where it seems
to be trending.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
By the way, I want to circle back to Tomlin.
So Sean Payton left New Orleans and he came to
Fox and Sewn and I went to dinner, and we
talked and we teckted it a lot. We talked every
week we had an interview, and we would talk before
we went on the air, on the air and off
the air, and the before and afterwards way better than
the on the air stuff. And we talked a lot
about it, and I kept saying, dude, you know some
(18:05):
of the analysts at Fox, you know they don't want
to do this stuff forever. Jimmy Johnson likes to fish. Okay,
like I said, stick around for about five years here.
And he's like, oh no, yeah, maybe what we'd talk
about the broadcasting thing, and he's just got too many
things ruminating upstairs.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
There's no way he could do broadcasting.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And he took the Denver job without Russell Wilson cap
hit and I'm like, yeah, you're in the division with Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I don't know if I like that. Well it works.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So I look at Tomlin and I think Tomlin's a
competitive guy. He's not a sit put a nice suit
on and talk football. He could do it for a
year and he'd probably be unbelievably great. He's just he's
a quote.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
He's great.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
But what about this that Mike Tomlin does a Peyton
and says, I don't like the coach, I don't like
the job.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Pool in one year.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Now, the Green Bay thing could be I guess might
take it. Dallas could come. Shottenheimer may get one more year, right,
looks like he will. Do you think there's a play
for Tomlin to do TV for a year and then
like Sean Payton, who said, oh, the richest owners in
the league, Oh, we got a first round pick and
it's a great quarterback draft, do you think there is
(19:19):
a possibility that in a year, if we got nine
this year, that maybe better jobs happen in a year
from now.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
I'm sure Sean saw the check and didn't really mind
the Patrick Mahomes Andy read were waiting around.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
They seemed to enjoy that, and I don't blame him whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I think with the quality of the jobs of Tom Whin,
I think that matters a little bit less, just because
I think he'll have options when he comes to it.
I think there will always be a job in every
cycle that is probably worth taking.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
If you're Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
The year off to me is most interesting because I
think guys can benefit from a year off.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
If I'm Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
I think that where I would sit back and evaluate
who I was as a coach and what did I
needed to be moving forward would be in how you
build your staff and how you seek out coordinators on
both sides of the ball. That's massively important when you're
a coach like Mike Tomlin, who is one of these
CEO type head coaches. The guys who've been successful in
that role, who've gotten further than the Steelers have over
(20:13):
the last couple of years, are the guys that have
been really good at finding the right people. That's why
I have faith in John Harbaugh in his next stop
in a way I might not have with a Pete Carroll.
Is that John consistently in Baltimore understood when he needed
to change out coordinators and why he hires Mike McDonald.
He goes and gets Todd Monkin when the Greg Roman
things runs out of road. If I'm Mike Tomlin, I
(20:36):
want to take a step back and for a year
just visit with people around the league. Talk to people
who should I be seeking out? What should my offense
look like? Who are the people that I should build
my staff with. Just take yourself out of that small,
kind of insulated world when you're the head coach and
your head is down all the time, and just think
about how you need to build things moving forward for
(20:57):
you to be successful. Because I think if he surrounds
him so with the right ideas, he is such a
good coach and a good motivator that that overall construction
and that overall model that would be appealing to me
if I were an owner trying to fill one of
these jobs.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
How about this nine openings?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Do you think it's possible based on either results this
weekend or a Bushati John Harbaugh bad phone call, there'll
be another job opening? Or do you believe the Browns, Cards, Dolphin, Falcons, Giants, Raiders, Ravens, Steelers, Titans?
Is it or there's just one that you're kind of
wondering about any I don't know what.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
That would be. Meagles, Eagles, Eagles. Maybe I'd be surprised
about that. I think they won the Super Bowl last year.
They've had enough evidence where if they have the right
coordinators in that building, they can be successful and competitive.
I think they swap out the offensive coordinator before they
move on from Sirianni. I think twenty twenty six becomes
all right, we got to see it before we decide
(21:59):
whether we were to.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Go in a new direction. I think they stayed the course.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
The other one that obviously we've talked about over the
last couple of years is what happens with Buffalo. I
think right now, you watch what they did on defense
against the Jags last week. Yeah, the Bill's defense and
how well coached that Bill's defense has been in certain
moments when they don't have a lot of talent. I
honestly think even if it ends in the divisional round,
this is the year I have felt best on what
(22:23):
McDermott is providing for the Bills than I have over
the last couple of years. And so on that front,
I think I'd be surprised if they moved on. And
I think that's really the only one that even might
make sense given the teams that are left.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Robert mays the Athletic Football Show terrific.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Well, that Mike Tomlin detour for the last fifteen minutes.
It is nine openings is the most since twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So wow, this is just wild, Robert? Is it really?
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Is?
Speaker 4 (22:54):
It?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Really is?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
No? I mean it's like this is something I talked
about several years ago owners used to be worth six
hunder fifty million. Now they're worth four billion, and they
can just write those checks. They can just clean the
staff out. Here's sixty million. I'm starting over. I made
that yesterday on my tech stocks, you know. I mean,
it's just a different world. They're more impulsive. But to
your point, they're watching Rabel and Jim Harbaugh and Liam
(23:19):
Cohen and Mike McDonald and they're like, yeah, I'm gonna
do this. Just get the right guy to Miko Ryans.
Before Demico got that job, I thought Houston was the
biggest has Matt spill in the league an hour before
he took that job. Nick Cassari, I mean, didn't we
think five years ago, four years ago the worst franchise honestly,
(23:40):
wasn't it Houston.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
It was the most forgettable franchise. It was the most
irrelevant franchise in the league. They existed in complete anonymity
for like four years.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
But you just feel how differently things can change.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Think about the way the Bears are talked about when
it comes to ownership and the quality of the organization
and their entire reputation for the last five to ten years.
Ben Jonson's been there for eleven months, and how different
does it feel. It feels so different, And I think
that's why there's an allure to this, because you can
convince yourself that if you get the right guy, you
(24:15):
can change everything in an instant. And as long as
we have evidence that points to that, I think you're
gonna see owners operate this way.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Robert, great stuff. Asola's thanks go ID appreciate it. Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Nine openings, Yeah, I mean, Marcus Freeman, keep your eye on,
Brian Dabele, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Kevin Stefanski, Mike mc
I'll throw this up. Mike McDaniel, make it a second opportunity.
(24:49):
You say, wow, I mean Miami didn't end well, got
to the playoffs twice. What ammos a GM, Mike McDaniel
and Brian Dabele have got to be thinking nine openings.
I'm getting work, and I don't necessarily think it would.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Be a bad thing. The Herd.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Neon Eastern non a EM Pacific.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
All right.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Mike Tomlin's out in Pittsburgh. He informed the team today
the Rooneys that he was moving on. Art Rooney the
second released a statement, and you know it's always classy.
The Steelers are highly regarded. They take care of their
own basically. You know, during our meeting, Coach Tomlin informed
(25:35):
me he decided to step down. I'm grateful to Mike
dedication success we've shared over nineteen years. Hard for me
to put into words the level of respect and appreciation
I have for coach Tomlin guided the franchise to our
six Super Bowl Championship playoffs thirteen times during his tenure,
won the AFC North eight times in his career. Track
(25:56):
record of never having a losing season likely never be
dupe Lood, My family and I, everybody connected to the
Steelers management forever grateful for the passion and dedication Mike
Tomlin has devoted.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
To Steelers football. I mean, it's a hall of fame coach.
The resume is a hall of fame coach.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I also think you can be a Hall of Fame
CEO and a hall of Fame coach and feel like
you're not current. I don't necessarily think the Steelers under
Tomlin have felt current, right. They still need the kids
to get online, like they're just not quite current. That
(26:33):
doesn't mean if he hired a brilliant OC it couldn't help.
I think Arthur Smith and Aaron Rodgers were a little
duct tape on sort of the cultural issue with them,
which is to just spend too much damn money on
the wrong side of the ball. So here's Robert May's
from The Athletic earlier on Tomlin stepping down.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I think it was time for both sides, and I
never thought that the Seelers would fire my Tomlin, and
they didn't. I think it was going to be a conversation,
and I feel like we were in a place with
both the Steelers and Mike Tomlin where it was mutually
beneficial for them to go their separate ways.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
The Steelers are poised.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
To go from being one of the oldest teams in
the league to kind of having a little bit of
a youth movement.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
They have a ton of picks this year. They can
move on from guys like TJ. Watt and Cam Hayward
over the next couple of years.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
It's a reset, even if it's not a rebuild, and
I feel like somebody else coming in with a new
vision to kind of shepherd that version of the organization
that made sense for them.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, I would go at offense.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I think I would consider Brian Dable, I would consider
Kevin Stefanski. I want somebody that's been a head coach.
I mean the coordinator stuff is a fifty to fifty proposition. Now,
you hit it out of the park with Ben Johnson,
But we were talking about Ben Johnson for three years,
like he was the talk of the league for three years.
Josh McDaniel also had multiple opportunities.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And didn't work.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Liam Cohen did, so there is no guarantee. But by
the way, Ben Johnson and hand Kayleb Williams pretty talented guy.
Liam Cohen inherited Trevor Lawrence, pretty talented guy. Whoever takes
a Steelers job, they don't have a quarterback. Whoever gets
the Giants has Jackson Dart So we all say, oh,
Liaan Cohen, Yeah, but he had a quarterback. Oh, Ben Johnson,
(28:14):
he had a quarterback. Oh, Mike Rabel, he had a quarterback.
Sean Payton drafted a quarterback he loved that was a
Drew Brees comp So these coordinators that you or any
of these coaches, you got to have the quarterback, right,
I'll be honest with you. If I'm Mike Tomlin, you
know what interests me.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Nine months? Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
They got Dak Prescott, all these even the legends, even
the Sean Payton's, even the.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Vrabels, even the you know, all the big guys, the
Jim Harbaughs.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, you get Justin Herbert, or you get Trevor Lawrence,
or you get somebody as talented as Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
What worries you about.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
The Pittsburgh Steelers and what's great about the Ravens is
you get Lamar Jackson. That's why the Ravens jobs by
far and away the best. You'd take the Ravens over
the Steelers ten out of ten times I get Lamar Jackson.
I would take the Giants over the Steelers. I have
Jackson Dart. Okay, So Steelers right now is a third job.
(29:13):
Who's the quarterback? Aaron's not the answer. And Aaron's personality
is not the kind that like a Stefanski would go, yeah,
that's that's that's not it. I mean, the Vikings knew
that JJ McCarthy couldn't stay healthy, and they had huge concerns,
and they passed on Aaron. So I don't think Aaron's
going to be the clean that's not an attractive thing.
(29:34):
I think it was attractive for Tomlin knowing the end
was coming. It's not going to be for like a
first time coach or a second time coach. Aaron's not
going to be that attractive. So I think the best
job is where your quarterbacks at. You start looking at
all these coaches that have worked. I mean, Mike McCarthy
goes to Dallas, he won twelve games three times, he
inherited Dak. Try to find the guys that go to
(29:57):
an organization that have no idea what they're doing a quarterback,
because that's the Steelers, and I honestly I think Tomlin knows.
Tomlin's smart. Tomlin's like in one year cowboy job potentially.
I mean, you start looking around the league. Next year,
I'll throw another one out. There's talk about Andy Reid
(30:17):
retiring in a year. McDermott loses this weekend by three touchdowns.
I mean, I'm just as I'm saying, we got nine openings,
we could have ten.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
We could have.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Another nine next year, so you know, keep your eyes open.
Mike McCarthy, by the way, is from Pittsburgh. Keep your
you think I'm crazy, j Mack. Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Yeah, there's no way Mike McCarthy's taking this job. Colin, Listen,
Mike Tomlin had an amazing run, but this is not
an attractive job opening. I get the whole ownership thing, stability,
all that wonderful. All the guys that took over, Mike
Tomlin taking over for Coward had a quarterback in Ben Roethlisberger.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Just on a Super Bowl. I would argue.
Speaker 6 (31:03):
Pittsburgh is the eighth or ninth most desirable job on
the market, right there with Arizona.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
Colin, I just look, they've got the second oldest roster
in the league.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
We've got a bunch of draft picks.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
Yeah, a bunch of draft picks. I look at blue
chip talent. I see maybe Joey Porter junior. Jalen Ramsey's declining.
I like high Smith. Cam Hayward is their highest graded
PFF player. He turns thirty seven in two months. They
don't have a quarterback. They're in a brutal division. There's
really nothing attractive about this job other than the ownership group.
I mean, Tennessee, at least you got Cam Ward, the Giants,
(31:34):
he got Jackson Dark, Atlanta's I mean, you just need
a quarterback, all the pieces in place. I look at Pittsburgh,
this is a major rebuild. And you know, following alleged
is tough. Right, we love Craft as an owner in
New England. Well guess what following Belichick gered Mayo? How
long did the owner stick with Mayo? He was going
in a year? But careful, well over, he's careful taking
(31:56):
this job.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Ravens you get Lamar Jackson, Giants you get Jackson Dark,
Raiders you get Fernando Mendoza. Yep, Titans you get cam Ward.
Those are the four places I get a quarterback I
can win.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
With Cleveland is not a desirable job. You know, they
will see what shador. I don't think he's the guy,
but I'm just telling you this Pittsburgh roster.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Go look at the salary cap.
Speaker 6 (32:18):
They do have some space, but like, is dk Metcalf
their second or third best player on the roster.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
The kid they drafted out of Georgia, Bryant Jones, all
of about can't stay healthy.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Doesn't matter? I mean I get that, but doesn't matter. Yeah,
they don't have a quarterback.
Speaker 6 (32:32):
Well you tell that to Mike McCarthy. Hey, Mike, you
want this job, I would almost guarantee he'd pass.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Yeah, I don't think it's that effected.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I want a quarterback. Cam Ward for four years is free.
Fernando Mendoza for four years will be free.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
What's the path to a quarterback for Pittsburgh?
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Because they've been on this nine and eight, ten and six,
ten and seven hamster wheel. I'd rather be four in
thirteen so you at least get bites at the apple
up high. I mean it's Pittsburgh's in a tough spot.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Listen.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
They had a great run, nothing last forever. I think
we're looking at some dark days ahead.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
If if you're Pittsburgh with all these picks, my takeaway,
you give out about six of them to go get
Ty Simpson in the first round. Say what you want,
it's something, Oh boy, I mean that's sexil.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Grab Ty Simpson before the Steelers do. Come on.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I wouldn't wish that upon anybody. I mean, they have
seven draft picks in the first four rounds. The Steelers
have the ammo, go get Ty Simpson.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Move up. You have to move up twenty five spots,
move up ten
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Colin Cowherd
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