July 8, 2026 • 41 mins
Jason MacIntyre breaks down the fall of USA soccer as they exit the World Cup in defeat against Belgium.
Fox Sports soccer commentator Derek Rae joins Jason to discuss the game between Egypt and Argentina he called and the lightning strike of Lionel Messi's goal; Derek also talks about what he thought about Egypt's disallowed goal.
Plus, the Athletic's Paul Tenorio, fresh off writing a book about Lionel Messi, talks about the greatness of Argentina's star and how he continues to cement himself as the greatest ever at this age, and why he thinks the moment was too big for Team USA.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to
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for listening to the Herd podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Here we go back on the Herd Final Hour.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Here on a Wednesday, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd
do a lot of World Cup shatter today, folks. Oh man,
what a glorious tournament this has been. And in fifteen minutes,
a special guest, Derek Ray, Yes, the legendary Fox announcer.
He called Messi's goal and Argentina's comeback win over Egypt.
(00:48):
Cannot wait to talk to him as a soccer guy.
I've been listening to Deeric Ray forever. He is extraordinary
on the mic. Just the turns of phrase he uses
so good. Cannot wait to talk to him. Fifteen minutes
and let's just start right here with the World Cup, folks.
And it has been an amazing run. The US had
an outstanding run. But how about Leonel Messi? And Argentina.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
They're trying to go back to back.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Messi putting Argentina on his back, and at thirty nine
years old, he's still playing with as much grit and
passion as ever. They're calling this the greatest comeback in
World Cup history because no team had ever rallied from
down to this late in the game to win in regulation,
and Messi did that with an assist and then a goal.
(01:34):
And listen, I'm consuming all of the content of course Instagram,
there's all these edits of Messi. You know, Messi gets sad,
his PK is denied that he narrowly misses a free
k a free kick, and then Messi just puts a
team on his back, goes as they like to say, god.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Mode, you know, and Argentina wins it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And then he's crying on the pitch after the game. Folks,
I've watched this replay a billion times, and here's Rick
Ray on the call to get fired up Messi's goal
to tie it.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Leonel Messi deflection there on the way through untill my
line something up. Pierre Argentina fish Leanel Messy but shavior
for Argentina. I come back when they needed it. Engineered,
bad man, regarded by so many. That's the critis of
(02:28):
the ball from the tips of despair Argentina celebration.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I mean, honestly, I'm obsessed with the World Cup. You
guys know, soccer was my top sport growing up. I
was a pretty good player. My family had some pretty
good players back back in the day.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I'll just say that. And the World Cup is something
like we never see that's every four years. It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And Messi's kind of leading Argentina on this old man renaissance.
I'm sure you guys have seen this in sports. Messi's
thirty nine years old, okay, and he's carrying Argentina. He's
one of the best players on the pitch at the
World Cup at thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I was told for the longest time growing up. Yep,
sports are a young man's game.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yet here's Tom Brady at forty four winning a Super Bowl.
Here's Matt Stafford at thirty eight winning the MVP last year.
Here's Lebron at forty one shattering every NBA record that
matters because he's still playing at such a high level.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Folks, we've never seen this stuff before. I remember in
two thousand and twenty two. It was December.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Messi was thirty five and Argentina plays that epic World
Cup final against France and folks, Messi had two goals
in that game. They win in penalty kicks and at
the end they carry Messi off the field.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
They're throwing him in the air.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
He's got the World Cup trophy and we're saying this
is this is John Elwait times ten. Remember Elway wins
the Super Bowl and walks off into the sunset. He's done,
and everybody thought Messi was It's over.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
You go out like that with a World Cup at
thirty five.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
The last award he needed to sinch himself as the goat.
And here he is four years later, at thirty nine,
doing other worldly things. I'm personally as a guy who's
aging hopefully gracefully. I love this old man renaissance. I mean,
Messi is bending free kicks. He's still just such a
sharp player at this age. He is starting this new
(04:21):
thing that he's been doing for a while now where
he just walks a lot to conserve energy, walks and
walks and then in a moment, boom, he pops. Here's
Brad Friedel talking about Messi and this god mode that
he could go.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Into and take over games.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
This guy, Leonel Messi, we talk about him all the time.
I mean being down two zil again seventy eight minute,
he blew by a guy at his age. I mean
he get iskedtat sports once there. I was around them
and they were at Barcelona. I said, what's he got?
I know he's great and the skill and all that,
what's he got? And they said, he gets up to
full pace in about a step and a half to
two steps. I mean, it's just it's remarkable this guy,
(05:00):
and he's a leader, and he's humble and he's a
driven winner.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Let's go from leon Al Messi the greate is to
ever do it and Argentina the defending champs, to Team USA,
which fell flat on its face Monday, losing to Belgium.
For one, it's not embarrassing or bad that we lost
to Belgium, guys, that's not the problem. The problem is
how we lost. It was a gutless effort. I mean
(05:26):
we saw no grit, no heart. You know, you get
punched in the mouth, you fall behind early and you
don't rally at all.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Guys, it was embarrassing. It really hurts.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
And frankly, we looked so good our starters did in
the three games. We give up one goal to Paraguay,
Australia Bosnia. Like, listen, Paraguay's nothing to scotfat they showed
well after we kicked their butts right, knocked out Germany.
We're kind of nip and tuck with France, even though
you know France had that game and control one nothing and.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That's not bad.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And where was our grit? Why didn't we see any
of that? That's what really hurts. And you've got all
these columnists and these talking heads parachuting into soccer right
and they're doing their think pieces and their crisis management.
Oh my gosh, we're never going to be on the
level of the greats. And it's the same nonsense every
(06:18):
four years. Well, if we could only get the.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Best players in America to play soccer, the best athletes,
imagine if the NBA and it's the same dumb, lazy nonsense.
I'm really sick of it.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
As a soccer guy.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Myself, I think it's just lazy. And here's the reality.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
We watched a Mexico team, right, Mexico's been down bad.
We've been better than Mexico for it for a close
to a decade. Now, okay, we watched Mexico fall behind
two nothing to England, Jude belling him back to back goals, like,
oh wow, this is over. Mexican fought like hell. They
refuse to die. They came back. That was a game
until the end. They lose three to two.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Nobody in Mexico's disappointed that they lost. How they lost. Obviously,
you want to win the game. But they fought like hell.
They were excellent. You know there was grit there.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
We just watched Argentina yesterday down to nothing seventy eight minute.
Oh my gosh, it's over. Heart of a friggin' champion.
Messi put the team on his back. Earling Holland, Norway
against Brazil zero zero.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh well, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Brazil's got so much talent. Holland just says, I'll take this. Thanks,
bang bang, two goals.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
It's over.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And that's really the thing I didn't see from the
Americans that pissed me off on Monday. You know, you
fall behind one nothing. Our whole team teams rattled at
the back. We didn't meet the moment as they say
in sports. You know, there was a bit of a
distraction if you maybe heard about it in the forty
eight hours leading up. I don't know if that was
a factor, but I mean Tim Reen was victimized on
(07:46):
four straight goals.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know, listen. I don't want to say I was
right on Reen.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
But I told you guys for months leading up on
this show at Tim Reen, that's a concern of mine.
Then he shows well against Paraguay. I said, hey, Tim
showed up. You know he's solid against Bosnia. Well, you know,
you step up in class against Belgium and you get worked.
So here is Landon Donovan going after our star. I've
been reluctant to go after Polisic. Yet here's Landon Donovan.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And listen, this is critical and this is the treatment
we give American stars. And you know soccer's arrived in
this country. When Landon Donovan is dropping bombs.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Like this on Polisic, he is who he is at
this point, right, and we want him to be more
because we see the time I've been on here talking
about seeing him in person against Bosnia, like the.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Way he moves in the way shore. But that was
an easy game.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
He came out of a World Cup knockout game at
home with his leg still intact.
Speaker 7 (08:43):
Because I'm saying this to you, Tim, and you know it,
because you played with me. You would have had to
drag me.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Off the field and I would have punched the doctor
in the face and said, you're not taking off the field.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
Put whatever you need to put in me, and I'm
just staying on the field.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
He's not wrong, Folks landed down Evan pulling no punches
on Christian Polisic.
Speaker 8 (09:04):
All right.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Coming up next a super special guest, Derek Ray, one
of the great announcers in the sport. He called the
amazing historic Argentina to come back against Egypt. He's seen
Messy up close and personal. I cannot wait to talk
to Derek Ray next. Here.
Speaker 9 (09:20):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Eastern nn am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Hey, this is Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire
with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing
the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight
Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines,
accurate stats to.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Help you win big at the sportsbook, and all the
best guests.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with
Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts. It doesn't get much better than
Derek Ray. He was on the call yesterday for Argentina Egypt.
Just take this in, listen to it, and then we'll
(10:12):
talk to Derek Ray. Here he is calling the final
two goals for Argentina during the comeback.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Leonel Messi deflection there on the way through until my
life something Oh here Wantchina fights Gods, Lena mess Machado
Martinez sending guava and he's a Fernandez.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Can you believe this? In the biggest of moments.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
In the biggest of sages, he won of the biggest comebacks.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
It is the game of the sornament.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Derek Ray just an absolute legend. Derek, so happy to
have you. Thank you so much for joining us announcer
for sports. First of all, what's the comedown like the
day after Argentina Egypt?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
How you feeling today?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Man, I'm not quite sure where I am Jason, to
be honest, It's made a crazy twenty four hours. And
as a commentator, you go into every game hoping that
you have material like that. You really cat top that
sort of material, and so I think trying to process
and digest it. And we have this habit of always
(11:27):
wanting to compare and contrast with other great moments that
we've been lucky enough to experience. But in World Cup terms,
and I've worked professionally at every World Cup since nineteen ninety,
that is pretty much at the shop of the list setting.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, they're calling it one of the greatest comebacks ever,
the latest comeback down from two goals to win in regulation,
and you called it all.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I am curious. I want to rewind a.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Little bit to the questionable var call, and listening to
you on the broadcast, I largely agree. But to anybody
who missed that, you know there was a questionable foul
and then about one hundred yards later Egypt goes up
to nothing and they run it back.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Just give talk me through your thoughts calling that well.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
The other voice that you heard was that of Rob Green,
former England goalkeeper, who has been my terrific co commentator
throughout this World Cup, and Rob immediately jumped on it,
and I tended to agree with him. He thought that
it was too far away, it was not really immediately
impacting the goal that had been scored by the Egyptians.
(12:32):
And I think what he said on the air was,
what are we doing here? You know, what are we
doing with VAR here? We all understand why we have VAR.
The reason is, of course, to make sure that we
don't have egregious mistakes that mean goals are scored when
they shouldn't be scored. But you know, that was a foul,
maybe a borderline fowl, that had nothing really to do
(12:54):
with the actual scoring of the goal, because there was
so much that had to be accomplished before the ball
went into the net. And what I would say about
it is it's sort of at odds with what I
would call the lighter touch VAR that we've seen during
this World Cup. Luigi Colina, who looks after referee matters,
has spoken about that, and this seemed a little bit
(13:16):
too stringent, but the decision was made. Egypt were still
too nail in front with eleven minutes to go, and
Argentina had.
Speaker 7 (13:24):
The wherewithal to come back.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
So I think it's right that we do dwell on it,
but we shouldn't dwell on it more than when we
talk about the actual nature of the comeback, which was
a comeback for the Ages.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, I'm just wondering, Like as a fan watching, I'm like,
oh my gosh, Argentina's down to nothing.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's over. They're they're not advancing. Messi's done. It's over.
The career finished. Like as an announcement when you're watching this,
did you think at all? Man?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I didn't see anything from Argentina Derek that hinted at
a comeback, but they do have Messi in the killer instinct.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Yeah, you've summed it up really well there, I think
in commentary and you never quite know what you've said
at the time, but I think at one point, with
maybe about fifteen minutes ago, I said something like, are
we witnessing the last tango? You know, because that was
what came into my head talking about Argentina and Messi
in particular, was that going to be the last Messi
tango at the World Cup? And he's given us so
(14:18):
many memories down the years, you know, a once in
a lifetime footballer, but you still have the feeling that
if one goal went in that it could change the
course of events. And this is what actually reminded me
of another classic game that I was fortunate enough to
cover more than twenty years ago, Meeland against Liverpool and
(14:40):
Istanbul Champions League Final two thousand and five, when Meelan
were three nil in front.
Speaker 7 (14:44):
Liverpool looked as though they were.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Out of it completely, but somehow came back from three
nil to make it three three went to penalties in
Liverpool won, and that was weirdly in my head. When
Romero scored the goal for two to one, I thought, okay,
all right, see and I would say that we talk
a lot about Messi, and some people say we talk
too much about Messi, but I do not think that
(15:07):
sort of comeback could have been made minus Leonel Messi.
This was the Messy comeback. And it's not just what
he does individually as a footballer. It's the influence he
has on his teammates and the regard, the esteem in
which he is held within the Argentina side. And of
course he had a big part to.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
Play in all of it.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
You know, the goal there for two to two especially,
But yeah, I think this is one that I'm pretty
confident in saying in twenty thirty forty years time, people
will tell their grandchildren yet remember that Leonel Messi inspired
comeback against Egypt.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
It's right up there, right at the top of the
tree with World Cup stories.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So, Derek, I want to talk about the US team
real quick. You know, listen, it's a tough it's a
bit of a tough sell here. Oh the US every
every World Cup were supposed to be better and we
never really break through. But something I saw is in
that Argentina come back, I saw grit. I saw we're
not going to quit. And Mexico was down to nothing
to England. They didn't quit. They rallied hard. Belgium was
(16:14):
down to nothing to Senecal. They did not throw in
the towel. They rallied hard. I didn't see a rally
from the US against Belgium. I saw a team that
kind of rolled over. It was like, we're cooked, it's over.
And I just wonder, you watch a lot of soccer,
is that something that can be coached into the team,
because just the slump shoulders, the USA falls behind early
and they never really mounted a rally.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Yeah, just an observation as an outsider, I actually think
the USA used to have grit in spades. I used
to believe that they weren't the most technically gifted side.
I'm talking about, you know, fifteen twenty years ago. They
were going back to Bruce Arena and Bob Bradley, and
there were some good individuals, but my goodness, there was grit,
there was gumption, there was belief, and I think that
(17:00):
with this new generation it's gone in a slightly different direction.
They are better technically, no doubt, and maybe they're better
technically in some areas, but they don't quite have that
same kind of we are going to take it to
the limit to try to win every game.
Speaker 8 (17:17):
Now.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
At the same time, I think sometimes again this is
just an observation, when I listened to USA fans, I
think they believe that there's this sort of path that
you go on and you get better and better and better,
and then eventually you.
Speaker 7 (17:32):
Win the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I've did around long enough to see that for just
about every country, it.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Doesn't go like that.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It goes uptown, up, down uptown, you know, even for
the great football companies. Look at BRAZILA this World Cup.
They've had a poor World Cup by their standards. Germany,
the country where I work, you know, you know, they
stand for excellence when it comes to international football, but
they're going through a bad patch.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
So all I would say is, you know, I don't
get too.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Down about it and think that because it didn't happen
this time against Belgium, that that can't be strides taken
in the future. I just think this is the nature
of international football. Most countries have been trying to win
the World Cup forever and have never managed it. It's
a very select group that's actually been able to break through,
and to be honest, it's part of the fun of it.
(18:20):
I mean, I come from a very small country Scotland.
We've never made it out of a group stage in
a major international tournament. We hold the indominius record for that.
So you live and die with your team, and yes,
you want to get better, but I think you also
have to be a bit realistic and say, okay, right
of sixteen was that par for the course.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
For this USA team? It's sort of what was the
par for my course? Anyway?
Speaker 4 (18:43):
I thought right of sixteen that would be anything better
is a bonus.
Speaker 7 (18:48):
Anything below that would be a disappointment. That's how it
ended so.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Interestingly to pivot to the macro view of the World Cup.
In the quarterfinals, France is the new favorite. They have
been for a couple of rounds, but coming into the
World Cup, Spain was viewed largely as the favorite, the
team to beat the betting markets.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I'm just curious, why.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Do you think that has changed, just because of the
offense that France has, I mean, the unbelievable midfield and forwards.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
But Spain hasn't even conceidered a goal yet.
Speaker 10 (19:15):
Derek.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah, it's funny you say that because I was asked,
so as most of us were before the tournament, who
would win the World Cup, and I said Spain and
France in that order, but not much between them, and
I was well aware that they were potentially on a
collision course of the semi final, and that remains the case.
I think it is that I think France have been
a bit more spectacular. I commentated on one of the
(19:37):
Spain games, and they're very good at what they do,
but they sometimes can sort of take the oxygen out.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Of a game a little bit.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
It's very much well, they have changed slightly, it's still
very much dependent on the passing game, and the opposition
don't often get much.
Speaker 7 (19:53):
Of a look.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
In France have a bit more flair about how they
do it, with flair players such as of course Getting
and Babe and Michael Lolise and Bele and the list
goes on. But I think there's not an awful lot
between them, and were they to meet as looks lightly
in the semi final, then I think that, you know,
we're talking about a whisker between them and you know,
(20:17):
potentially going all the way, maybe going to penalties and
a meeting like that.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, all right, So let me ask about England.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
With the US eliminated, I've backed England now, that's that's the.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Team I'm rooting for.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
It's tough not to love this team, Derek, Between Bellingham
Harry Kane, they're very likable. Going into Mexico and getting
that win in a hostile environment. I'm just curious they
now face Earling, Holland and Norway, which I mean, hell,
you talk about teams that haven't done anything. Norway hadn't
done anything. I mean, they couldn't qualify. I'm just curious
(20:48):
your thoughts on that game, how that shakes out England
versus Norway.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I make England slight favorites. I think it will be
a test against Norway because what we've seen is yes,
there's Arling Holland, but there are other players in their
ranks who can damage anybody. I'm a huge Harry Kane
fan because I see him every week working in Germany,
and not just Harry Kane the striker or even the
human being, because he's a great guy, but also the
(21:14):
complete footballer and the strings he has to his bow
these days as almost a playmaker as well as a
goal scorer. And it's natural to focus on Jude Bellingham
as well. Like to give Thomas Stuker some of the
credit for it, because he came in for a bit
of criticism for a squad selection at the start, but
I think England I agree. I think previous incarnations of
(21:36):
England were not as easy to like. I think that
this is a good bunch that they have together and
as I said, I make them favorites against Norway.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
And then again, who knows would.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
They play Argentina in a mondumental semi vital Switzerland would
have their own say on that, but it's shaping up
quite nicely for England after that scare that they got
against d R Congo.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
It's interesting the Argentina matchup. I was doing some ex'es
and o's. It's almost like England's going to have a
very good chance against Argentina.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I don't know, Derek. People are getting caught up in
the Messi stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Understandably, they haven't been particularly sharp in this World Cup.
I think you alluded to that. I don't know what
it is, but maybe it's just a lot of watching
Messi and saying, oh leo now will take over.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But I think England win that game.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
What do you think, Well, I think they have a
real chance if it does come to that. I think
England's Argentina, Norway, it could be any which way.
Speaker 7 (22:29):
Switzerland as well.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Overlook them because they can be a little bit dull,
but they've discovered the weing habit. I think if it
were to be England against Argentina, well, I think it's
dangerous about Argentina is that. Yes, at times it's a
bit underwhelming because they don't have a lot of pace
in their team.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
They're quite a technical team.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
They rely on Messi, but they rely on these little
combinations and these busts within a game, and I think
we saw that quite a lot in cats Are as well,
and the nucleus of that team is still in place.
So Argentina against England, Yeah, I mean it would be
a semifinal to relish, no doubt about it. I'm not
sure that I would go into it thinking this team
(23:11):
has the advantage over the other.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
I would think it could be a very even contest.
Let's see if they need.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
All right, Derek Ray, Fox Sports announcer. True legend, Derek,
it was an honor to talk to you, man.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I love listening to your stuff. Keep up the good
work on man.
Speaker 7 (23:24):
Oh, thank you, my friend, and the pleasure is all mine, all.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Right, Derek Ray, Fox Sports announcer. All right, let's go
to Rachel Nichols with the news.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
No, no turn on the news.
Speaker 9 (23:35):
This is the herd Line News.
Speaker 8 (23:38):
Well, Jason, you've heard of Shador Sanders. Are you making
a million? Which his work media attention last year? Well,
he is definitely making some noise again.
Speaker 11 (23:48):
Browns have not named a Week one starter, so Shadur
will battle Deshaun Watson in camp and Jason, he's talking
about it on his YouTube channel, saying even becoming the
Brown starter. If that does happen, it's small potatoes compared
to his other career goals.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I'm not content just being on no team. You're doing right.
I'm trying to get right.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
I'm trying to be one of the greatest. Do you
gotta be thankful?
Speaker 7 (24:10):
But no, it's still more.
Speaker 8 (24:11):
Yeah, still it's still more.
Speaker 11 (24:15):
Do you like the confidence Jason or then he wants
to be an all time great or do you feel
like this is unnecessarily putting another.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Target on his back? I like the multi media play Rachel.
He's like Jaylen Brown going on Twitch saying pop it off.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
So now shadoor It just has his own YouTube channel
where he's now producing content.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
These guys are out for a while.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, the modern athletes, they know, why would I give
an interview where my words could get twisted. I can
just go sit on a rock and get interviewed and
say I want to be the greatest, you know, I
mean maybe the greatest quarterback in the Cleveland Brown's quarterback
room would be a start. I'm not going to bash
the kid, you know whatever. I didn't see it last year,
(24:56):
We'll see. I didn't see upgrades a wide receiver for
this team, Deshaun Watson. You know's he ain't just rolling
over and conceding this job. So I don't know what
to make a Shador.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 11 (25:10):
I mean, I said to one of our producers this morning.
I never have a problem with an athlete saying I
think I can be the best or I want to
be the best.
Speaker 8 (25:16):
That is how you have to think to compete at
this level. It's just whether those are inside thoughts or
outside thoughts. And I don't know what's better for Shador.
Speaker 11 (25:27):
I mean, the people who love him love this kind
of stuff from him, and maybe it's just part of
what makes them goes.
Speaker 8 (25:31):
We've seen athletes who need to talk like this to
be their best.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
They got to hype themselves up. Don't you do that
before the show? I make it in the room. I'm like,
all right, j Mac, let's go dominate today.
Speaker 8 (25:44):
I will shock you to hear I don't do that,
but all right. Sticking in the NFL, we've talked about
it a bunch.
Speaker 11 (25:50):
Jays the Rams very surprising pick right at number thirteen overall.
They took Tys Simpson out of Alabama to be the
heir apparent behind Stafford, but reports have indicated that Simpson
has yet to separate himself from the other quarterback at
Camp Stetson Barnett, and even in former GM has been
calling him a career backup in various reportings.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
So it was reported recently also that Sean McVey.
Speaker 11 (26:13):
Wants Simpson to work on his communication in the huddle
by looking in a mirror and seeing what his face
looks like and how his voice sounds when he's communicating
in the huddle.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
Does all of this make you feel better? Worse? Neutral?
I mean, how is it aging this pick?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I like that looking in the mirror practicing his huddle.
Speaker 8 (26:33):
Can you do that in the morning team.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
I do not do that.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I've heard it's a motivational ploy. Though you look in
the mirror. I'm going to do well today. Let's make
it a data Remember speaking of mc veigh, When I.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Saw his name on the screen, Rachel, Yes, I instantly thought,
I'm sure you saw it on Instagram. McVeigh vacationing with
his wife and dude is shreddit. I don't know what
he's doing, but I mean, he's got like an eight
pack and I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
McVeigh maybe he.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Could talk to his quarterback Ty Simpson and they'll start
working out together.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I just I don't understand the Simpson hype. I'm not
gonna lie. I liked him coming out. I just don't
see it with the Rams. I don't Rachel.
Speaker 11 (27:08):
What do we just discuss? Jason Instagram not a source? Yeah,
I appreciate was it?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
There was a photo doctored?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Because I listen, dude, he was saying credit like, I mean, ahgh,
I don't know what he's on.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Maybe peptides.
Speaker 7 (27:22):
There you go.
Speaker 8 (27:23):
This is more your world than mine.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 11 (27:25):
I do want to get into this with you because
I got to talk about baseball here and Shohei Otani.
Speaker 8 (27:29):
You know, I'm a Dodgers fan.
Speaker 11 (27:31):
Notched another accolade in his career belt last night, swatting
the three hundredth home run of his career.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
And here's the call from Joe Davis.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Really, he's a guy that you just trying to find.
Square up highlines rive center.
Speaker 9 (27:45):
Field carries over the three hundred for so Hello Tani.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
It was the line drive that was kept on rides
and kept on climbing.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Three hundred.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Hold on, I'm Sario Tony's major league career.
Speaker 11 (28:05):
No, look again, I'm a Dodger gal, so I will
tell you that one of those games he played was
at the NLCS, was the most godlike game I have
ever seen. I would say, the best combined performance from
a player. We heard a lot during the World Series.
We are lucky, folks to be living in a time
where the best baseball player ever is walking the earth.
Are you ready to crown him the best baseball player ever?
(28:28):
Or do you still need to see how the rest
of the career pands out.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I mean, no, no, that's a great point. So I
would agree, yeah, best baseball player ever. But Rachel, so,
yesterday we saw the best baseball player ever and the
best soccer player ever, both perfecting their craft.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
We have, for my money, the best basketball player ever
a free agent. I mean, that is what a time
to be alive when all union of them are excelling.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And I mean I was thinking about this, Okay, So
like at any point it's say nineteen ninety two, we're
sports fans like, boy, we're so lucky we've got the
greatest best a player Jordan At the time on football
baseball like that wasn't a thing Okay, right now, is
like the Golden era in sports in America?
Speaker 11 (29:08):
Yeah, I mean I think there's been a real leap
in the way athletes take care of themselves. I was
asking the guys to make a comparison to Babe Ruth
just because that's the guy obviously is an icon of baseball,
but also you know, pitcher, hitter, all of that stuff.
So I guess the number for you here, Jason. The
numbers favorite Ruth a little bit. The big ones right
that we're talking about. He had a three four to
(29:29):
two average. Otani has a two hundred and eighty two average,
and Otani's era is two point eight three compared to
two point two eight era from Babe Ruth. But then
I decided to dig deeper, Jason. In my research, I
did not use Instagram as a source. I did look
up what some of the people Babe Ruth was playing
(29:50):
against were, Like, we know that there was segregation, so
that's a huge thing, right when you're starting There.
Speaker 8 (29:57):
Also a lot of the opponents.
Speaker 11 (29:58):
Most of his opponents were not full time baseball players.
In fact, two very notable opponents of his there was
one who was a traveling circus director that in the offseason,
he owned and ran a traveling circus and ran it
from his stops playing baseball even when he was away
from the circus itself.
Speaker 8 (30:19):
But one of Babe Ruth's teammates, pretty.
Speaker 11 (30:22):
Good, was nicknamed the Mary Mortitician because he was a
funeral director the entire time he was playing baseball, and
one time, according to urban myth, accidentally when he was
driving a hurst to the game, as he often did,
didn't realize there.
Speaker 8 (30:40):
Was a body in the back. So you know, these
are some of the guys Babe.
Speaker 11 (30:44):
Ruth are playing at and a Chinese numbers are very similar,
if not exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
As good to all the potential journalists in the crowd.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
That's how it's done. I'm just thinking, did that so nicely?
I would have just destroyed the pipe better and the
chimney sweep who was batting fifth in the lineup.
Speaker 11 (30:59):
But I say I'm stumping from my guy, best baseball player.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Of all time?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Rachel with the news.
Speaker 9 (31:05):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line News.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Come it up next.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
There's a big new book out on Leonel Messi and
the author is stopping by.
Speaker 9 (31:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
at noon. Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Let's welcome in Paul jan Orio from The Athletic. He
is a very prolific soccer writer.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Just wrote the book on Messi and why didn't you
know what? Paul Messi just happens to have the greatest
comeback in World Cup history yesterday? Your thoughts on the game.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
There's a picture of the book, The Messy Effect, How
the global legend changed the future of American soccer.
Speaker 10 (31:44):
Yeah, I mean he's insane, right, Like every time you
think that he's done doing special magic things on the
biggest age, he pulled something else out. And you know,
I think this one even surprised him. You could see
in his emotion after the game how how important it
was to him. And he said after he felt a
responsibility right because he had missed that penalty kick that
(32:05):
he felt.
Speaker 7 (32:05):
Changed the game.
Speaker 10 (32:06):
So for him to get the goal the way he did,
for the team to come back the way it did,
it seems like this Messy story doesn't want to end.
And certainly I think you can see with this Argentina team,
as we did in Qatar four years ago, how much
it means to them to continue to push Argentina and
Messi towards more and more history.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, it really is amazing.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
But I want to use that as a spinoff to
the US because, you know, Paul, like all the energy
and grit and resolve that we saw from Argentina, we
didn't see any of that at all from the US
once they were down again. We saw it from Mexico
down to nothing against England, Argentina was down to nothing,
that both of those teams rallied hard even though Mexico lost.
(32:51):
The US didn't really put up a fight against Belgium.
I think that's why there's so much outrage. I'm just curious, like,
why do you think we did not disc.
Speaker 10 (33:02):
It really felt like the moment was too big for
this team. You know, forty million people watching. What an
enormous missed opportunity for American soccer. And there is a
connection between what Messi is doing and what the US
team is doing and what's going to.
Speaker 7 (33:17):
Happen for the sport.
Speaker 10 (33:18):
And the US did have an obligation to put something
better on that stage, and from the very go for
you know, from the first whistle, Serginio desk mistaking the
ball thinking it was going to be a US throw
and seeing it out you could almost feel the nerves
and the tension coming out into the field. And then conversely,
I think Belgium was united around this cause, playing for football,
(33:42):
playing against FIFA, and a team that had been so disjointed,
that is so talented on paper but just looks like
they don't really fit well together, suddenly had something to
fight for. And the US was left grasping at a
team that was playing faster than them, thinking faster than them,
playing harder than them, and they could never really recover,
even as the crowd in Seattle tried to push them back.
Speaker 7 (34:04):
Into the game, it didn't work.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Well, the round before, Belgium was down to nothing to Senegal,
just getting their butts kicked, and they sub off de
Bruna and Doku like two of their best players, and
it was like, okay, well we rallied to win. And
then their coach went and started the same group that rallied,
leaving de Bruyne on the bench, and people are like, wow,
I mean I had a buddy texting met Paul who
played a high level of soccer. We should ben to
(34:28):
Pulisic at the half. He's been that bad and I'm like,
we would never do that in America. They eventually pulled Pulisic,
But I got to ask you, what did you think
of his performance?
Speaker 7 (34:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (34:39):
I think he was He just wasn't very good, and
neither was the rest of the US team, But Polisic
especially had a terrible half. He gave the ball away
eleven times in the first forty five minutes, more than
any other player on the field. And that's not a
typical Christian Polistic performance. You know, he has been the
player who typically steps up on the biggest stages for
the US. He scored a Nation's League final, He scored
(35:00):
the goal to send the US out of the group
stage against Iran in the last World Cup. Was the
best player on the field in the first forty five
minutes of that Paraguay game that got in the country
so excited. And yet here in this enormous moment, it
felt like he was trying to do too much. It
felt like he was trying to take all of that
onto his shoulders. And I think Christian Bilizic is at
his best when he's not doing that, when he trusts
(35:22):
the players around him, and it just looked I thought
he was kind of the microcosm of the story as
a whole for the US. All of this hope, all
of this potential, all of this belief around this player,
around this team, and then when the country's watching them
at this moment where a win would do so much
to change people's minds about American soccer, American men's soccer,
(35:42):
they don't just lose, they get completely battered and it
sets the narrative back.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So I would still argue that this World Cup was
a success for the US team.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We play our best effort in the group stage ever,
most goals we ever scored in the World Cup, Like
we were.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Really good, and then it all fell apart.
Speaker 7 (35:59):
I'm just one.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Do you think that whole Balligan stuff was a distraction
for the US? Head it because we did not look
anything like that in the other games. I'm excluding Turkey
because we started like ten backups. But I don't know, Paul,
what do you.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Think was it a distraction or was or did maybe
Belgium rise to the occasion saying man, screw these guys
in there and their preferential treatment.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
I think it's the.
Speaker 10 (36:21):
Latter more than the former, talking to guys around the team,
you know, both in the mixzone after the game and
since then. They really kind of shut the world out
in the twenty four hours before the game. They felt
like they didn't really realize how big it had become
until after the game when they started to absorb more
of it. But Belgium certainly did absorb all of it
as it was going on, and you're a Tillimon said,
(36:43):
when we heard the news that Baligan was coming back in,
when we saw that Trump was evolved, Essentially, they held
a team meeting and they said, let's use this and
go do our talking on the field.
Speaker 7 (36:52):
So it motivated Belgium, it did.
Speaker 10 (36:55):
They used it as fuel in that locker room, and
they felt like they wanted to make a statement against
a team that the rest of the world was looking
at as saying, you think your privilege is what's going
to get you to the next round, We're going to.
Speaker 7 (37:05):
Set you back in place.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
That's good stuff. Paul dropping some bombs.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Wow, I didn't even know that polisicstat gave it away
eleven times in the first half.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's terrible.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
So let me ask you, do you think we need
material changes across the board to get ready for twenty thirty.
I mean, Poachattino, somebody was telling me they think it's
sixty forty. He stays, Or listen, we have our quote
unquote golden generation where we only need a few tweaks.
Obviously Tim Reem is ain't coming back. We probably need
to find a new goalie. But or do you think
(37:36):
we've got something here? We just ran into a bit
of a buzzsaw.
Speaker 7 (37:41):
No. I mean, this is.
Speaker 10 (37:42):
Actually a lot of what my book, The Messi Effect
is about. It's how do you push this game forward
in the country. And I think there are a few
big picture things that need to change, And I actually
think a lot of the conversation has revolved around you soccer,
and there's a lot to get done and make better
in that area. But the professional league in this country
needs to get better, and the onus is on them
(38:02):
to improve the product, to improve the level of the
league so that we're setting the ceiling higher for our
best young American players who are coming through MLS academies
getting to the first team that they're training in better environments,
they're playing in better games, they're developing at a higher level.
That's critical to the future of this national team, and
so there is an enormous responsibility that now gets transferred
(38:22):
over to Major League Soccers owners and its executives to
make votes and change the rules in this league so
that it.
Speaker 7 (38:28):
Can be more competitive with the rest of the world.
That's enormously important.
Speaker 10 (38:32):
But those changes aren't going to take place fast enough
to have an impact in four years time, and so
there has to be a little bit of an internal
search here amongst the players who are already a part
of this pool and the young players who are starting
to come through, players like Xavier Gozo, the nineteen year
old in Salt Lake, or Audrey Mahmedi, the teenager in
Red Bulls Julian Hall, these young players who are starting
to play more minutes and be more competitive, there has
(38:57):
to be an understanding that you still have to have
the mentality American soccers always have.
Speaker 7 (39:01):
You can dream of playing on the biggest stages.
Speaker 10 (39:03):
You can play in aggressive and attractive style, as the
US did against Paraguay, but you cannot lose the fight
that you were talking about that wasn't there against Belgium.
You cannot lose the mentality that would think that you
can just waltz onto a field and beat a team
that is just as good or better on paper, who
have players playing at just as high of a level
as your golden generation.
Speaker 7 (39:24):
That you have to be able to fight your way
to a win.
Speaker 10 (39:28):
And that mentality is what has to carry forward, whether
it's Pochettino or not, that mentality has to be there
in this pool. And that's what I give Pochetino credit
for for instilling into the national team program.
Speaker 7 (39:39):
Whoever US Soccer.
Speaker 10 (39:40):
Hires if he doesn't come back, the number one task
is maintaining that culture within the program of saying the
players don't get to pick and choose when they come in.
You're either all in or you're not.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
You say that's number one, and you're probably right, But
one could argue that dual nationals and essentially recruiting them
could be number one because plow Mallagan, I think he
was our best player at.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
The Cup, and you know, he could have gone Nigeria,
could have.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Gone England, and I'm nerding out and I'm looking at,
you know, twenty thirty young kids sixteen to twenty two,
and like some of the best ones are dual nationals
who haven't picked which side to go into.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
So do you track some of that stuff? Is it
too far ahead?
Speaker 10 (40:19):
Yeah, of course, of course, It's always been a part
of the equation for the US men's national team. There's
always players that can can choose one country or the other,
and it's always a big part of the national team
picture to recruit those players.
Speaker 7 (40:30):
You know, whether we're talking about Noah Kai Banks.
Speaker 10 (40:33):
Who's playing over in Germany, the center back who hasn't
picked one or the other, or whether we're talking about
somebody like Julian Hall, the forward at Red Bulls whose
mother is Polish and who the Poland national Federation is
trying to recruit him away from the US men's national
team program.
Speaker 7 (40:46):
So that's always a big part of this.
Speaker 10 (40:48):
And yet, and yeah, I mean, a lot of jokes
that were going around the group chats was like, we
need the US soldiers to stay in those bases over
in Europe to make sure that we're still producing the
future generations of this national team. But you know, certainly,
I think it's all of this right, All of these
factors come together, the mentality and the culture finding the
right players.
Speaker 7 (41:08):
But I really think for the long term of this sport.
Speaker 10 (41:11):
We have to start holding Major League Soccer accountable to change,
to grow faster, to be a little bit more aggressive.
They've built the infrastructure in this country. We've seen it
in this World Cup tournament, right. We've seen the stadiums,
the fans, the training facilities that are all around this country.
Speaker 7 (41:25):
The infrastructure has been built out.
Speaker 10 (41:27):
There's a permanence now for the sport in America that
didn't exist when I was growing up. It's here now,
and so now this country is showing they're ready to
support soccer in a bigger way. And if we want
to see this national team program grow, it has to
start with the professional leagues in this country.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Paulton Oreo the Athletic wrote the Messy Effect. Paul, congratulations
on all your success and great stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Thank you for the chat.
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find
your local station for the Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks
for listening to the Herd podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Here we go back on the Herd Final Hour.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Here on a Wednesday, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd
do a lot of World Cup shatter today, folks. Oh man,
what a glorious tournament this has been. And in fifteen minutes,
a special guest, Derek Ray, Yes, the legendary Fox announcer.
He called Messi's goal and Argentina's comeback win over Egypt.
(00:48):
Cannot wait to talk to him as a soccer guy.
I've been listening to Deeric Ray forever. He is extraordinary
on the mic. Just the turns of phrase he uses
so good. Cannot wait to talk to him. Fifteen minutes
and let's just start right here with the World Cup, folks.
And it has been an amazing run. The US had
an outstanding run. But how about Leonel Messi? And Argentina.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
They're trying to go back to back.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Messi putting Argentina on his back, and at thirty nine
years old, he's still playing with as much grit and
passion as ever. They're calling this the greatest comeback in
World Cup history because no team had ever rallied from
down to this late in the game to win in regulation,
and Messi did that with an assist and then a goal.
(01:34):
And listen, I'm consuming all of the content of course Instagram,
there's all these edits of Messi. You know, Messi gets sad,
his PK is denied that he narrowly misses a free
k a free kick, and then Messi just puts a
team on his back, goes as they like to say, god.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Mode, you know, and Argentina wins it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And then he's crying on the pitch after the game. Folks,
I've watched this replay a billion times, and here's Rick
Ray on the call to get fired up Messi's goal
to tie it.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Leonel Messi deflection there on the way through untill my
line something up. Pierre Argentina fish Leanel Messy but shavior
for Argentina. I come back when they needed it. Engineered,
bad man, regarded by so many. That's the critis of
(02:28):
the ball from the tips of despair Argentina celebration.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I mean, honestly, I'm obsessed with the World Cup. You
guys know, soccer was my top sport growing up. I
was a pretty good player. My family had some pretty
good players back back in the day.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I'll just say that. And the World Cup is something
like we never see that's every four years. It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And Messi's kind of leading Argentina on this old man renaissance.
I'm sure you guys have seen this in sports. Messi's
thirty nine years old, okay, and he's carrying Argentina. He's
one of the best players on the pitch at the
World Cup at thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I was told for the longest time growing up. Yep,
sports are a young man's game.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yet here's Tom Brady at forty four winning a Super Bowl.
Here's Matt Stafford at thirty eight winning the MVP last year.
Here's Lebron at forty one shattering every NBA record that
matters because he's still playing at such a high level.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Folks, we've never seen this stuff before. I remember in
two thousand and twenty two. It was December.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Messi was thirty five and Argentina plays that epic World
Cup final against France and folks, Messi had two goals
in that game. They win in penalty kicks and at
the end they carry Messi off the field.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
They're throwing him in the air.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
He's got the World Cup trophy and we're saying this
is this is John Elwait times ten. Remember Elway wins
the Super Bowl and walks off into the sunset. He's done,
and everybody thought Messi was It's over.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
You go out like that with a World Cup at
thirty five.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
The last award he needed to sinch himself as the goat.
And here he is four years later, at thirty nine,
doing other worldly things. I'm personally as a guy who's
aging hopefully gracefully. I love this old man renaissance. I mean,
Messi is bending free kicks. He's still just such a
sharp player at this age. He is starting this new
(04:21):
thing that he's been doing for a while now where
he just walks a lot to conserve energy, walks and
walks and then in a moment, boom, he pops. Here's
Brad Friedel talking about Messi and this god mode that
he could go.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Into and take over games.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
This guy, Leonel Messi, we talk about him all the time.
I mean being down two zil again seventy eight minute,
he blew by a guy at his age. I mean
he get iskedtat sports once there. I was around them
and they were at Barcelona. I said, what's he got?
I know he's great and the skill and all that,
what's he got? And they said, he gets up to
full pace in about a step and a half to
two steps. I mean, it's just it's remarkable this guy,
(05:00):
and he's a leader, and he's humble and he's a
driven winner.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Let's go from leon Al Messi the greate is to
ever do it and Argentina the defending champs, to Team USA,
which fell flat on its face Monday, losing to Belgium.
For one, it's not embarrassing or bad that we lost
to Belgium, guys, that's not the problem. The problem is
how we lost. It was a gutless effort. I mean
(05:26):
we saw no grit, no heart. You know, you get
punched in the mouth, you fall behind early and you
don't rally at all.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Guys, it was embarrassing. It really hurts.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
And frankly, we looked so good our starters did in
the three games. We give up one goal to Paraguay,
Australia Bosnia. Like, listen, Paraguay's nothing to scotfat they showed
well after we kicked their butts right, knocked out Germany.
We're kind of nip and tuck with France, even though
you know France had that game and control one nothing and.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That's not bad.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And where was our grit? Why didn't we see any
of that? That's what really hurts. And you've got all
these columnists and these talking heads parachuting into soccer right
and they're doing their think pieces and their crisis management.
Oh my gosh, we're never going to be on the
level of the greats. And it's the same nonsense every
(06:18):
four years. Well, if we could only get the.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Best players in America to play soccer, the best athletes,
imagine if the NBA and it's the same dumb, lazy nonsense.
I'm really sick of it.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
As a soccer guy.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Myself, I think it's just lazy. And here's the reality.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
We watched a Mexico team, right, Mexico's been down bad.
We've been better than Mexico for it for a close
to a decade. Now, okay, we watched Mexico fall behind
two nothing to England, Jude belling him back to back goals, like,
oh wow, this is over. Mexican fought like hell. They
refuse to die. They came back. That was a game
until the end. They lose three to two.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Nobody in Mexico's disappointed that they lost. How they lost. Obviously,
you want to win the game. But they fought like hell.
They were excellent. You know there was grit there.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
We just watched Argentina yesterday down to nothing seventy eight minute.
Oh my gosh, it's over. Heart of a friggin' champion.
Messi put the team on his back. Earling Holland, Norway
against Brazil zero zero.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh well, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Brazil's got so much talent. Holland just says, I'll take this. Thanks,
bang bang, two goals.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
It's over.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And that's really the thing I didn't see from the
Americans that pissed me off on Monday. You know, you
fall behind one nothing. Our whole team teams rattled at
the back. We didn't meet the moment as they say
in sports. You know, there was a bit of a
distraction if you maybe heard about it in the forty
eight hours leading up. I don't know if that was
a factor, but I mean Tim Reen was victimized on
(07:46):
four straight goals.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know, listen. I don't want to say I was
right on Reen.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
But I told you guys for months leading up on
this show at Tim Reen, that's a concern of mine.
Then he shows well against Paraguay. I said, hey, Tim
showed up. You know he's solid against Bosnia. Well, you know,
you step up in class against Belgium and you get worked.
So here is Landon Donovan going after our star. I've
been reluctant to go after Polisic. Yet here's Landon Donovan.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And listen, this is critical and this is the treatment
we give American stars. And you know soccer's arrived in
this country. When Landon Donovan is dropping bombs.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Like this on Polisic, he is who he is at
this point, right, and we want him to be more
because we see the time I've been on here talking
about seeing him in person against Bosnia, like the.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Way he moves in the way shore. But that was
an easy game.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
He came out of a World Cup knockout game at
home with his leg still intact.
Speaker 7 (08:43):
Because I'm saying this to you, Tim, and you know it,
because you played with me. You would have had to
drag me.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Off the field and I would have punched the doctor
in the face and said, you're not taking off the field.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
Put whatever you need to put in me, and I'm
just staying on the field.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
He's not wrong, Folks landed down Evan pulling no punches
on Christian Polisic.
Speaker 8 (09:04):
All right.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Coming up next a super special guest, Derek Ray, one
of the great announcers in the sport. He called the
amazing historic Argentina to come back against Egypt. He's seen
Messy up close and personal. I cannot wait to talk
to Derek Ray next. Here.
Speaker 9 (09:20):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Eastern nn am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Hey, this is Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire
with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing
the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight
Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines,
accurate stats to.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Help you win big at the sportsbook, and all the
best guests.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with
Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts. It doesn't get much better than
Derek Ray. He was on the call yesterday for Argentina Egypt.
Just take this in, listen to it, and then we'll
(10:12):
talk to Derek Ray. Here he is calling the final
two goals for Argentina during the comeback.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Leonel Messi deflection there on the way through until my
life something Oh here Wantchina fights Gods, Lena mess Machado
Martinez sending guava and he's a Fernandez.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Can you believe this? In the biggest of moments.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
In the biggest of sages, he won of the biggest comebacks.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
It is the game of the sornament.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Derek Ray just an absolute legend. Derek, so happy to
have you. Thank you so much for joining us announcer
for sports. First of all, what's the comedown like the
day after Argentina Egypt?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
How you feeling today?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Man, I'm not quite sure where I am Jason, to
be honest, It's made a crazy twenty four hours. And
as a commentator, you go into every game hoping that
you have material like that. You really cat top that
sort of material, and so I think trying to process
and digest it. And we have this habit of always
(11:27):
wanting to compare and contrast with other great moments that
we've been lucky enough to experience. But in World Cup terms,
and I've worked professionally at every World Cup since nineteen ninety,
that is pretty much at the shop of the list setting.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, they're calling it one of the greatest comebacks ever,
the latest comeback down from two goals to win in regulation,
and you called it all.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I am curious. I want to rewind a.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Little bit to the questionable var call, and listening to
you on the broadcast, I largely agree. But to anybody
who missed that, you know there was a questionable foul
and then about one hundred yards later Egypt goes up
to nothing and they run it back.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Just give talk me through your thoughts calling that well.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
The other voice that you heard was that of Rob Green,
former England goalkeeper, who has been my terrific co commentator
throughout this World Cup, and Rob immediately jumped on it,
and I tended to agree with him. He thought that
it was too far away, it was not really immediately
impacting the goal that had been scored by the Egyptians.
(12:32):
And I think what he said on the air was,
what are we doing here? You know, what are we
doing with VAR here? We all understand why we have VAR.
The reason is, of course, to make sure that we
don't have egregious mistakes that mean goals are scored when
they shouldn't be scored. But you know, that was a foul,
maybe a borderline fowl, that had nothing really to do
(12:54):
with the actual scoring of the goal, because there was
so much that had to be accomplished before the ball
went into the net. And what I would say about
it is it's sort of at odds with what I
would call the lighter touch VAR that we've seen during
this World Cup. Luigi Colina, who looks after referee matters,
has spoken about that, and this seemed a little bit
(13:16):
too stringent, but the decision was made. Egypt were still
too nail in front with eleven minutes to go, and
Argentina had.
Speaker 7 (13:24):
The wherewithal to come back.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
So I think it's right that we do dwell on it,
but we shouldn't dwell on it more than when we
talk about the actual nature of the comeback, which was
a comeback for the Ages.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, I'm just wondering, Like as a fan watching, I'm like,
oh my gosh, Argentina's down to nothing.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's over. They're they're not advancing. Messi's done. It's over.
The career finished. Like as an announcement when you're watching this,
did you think at all? Man?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I didn't see anything from Argentina Derek that hinted at
a comeback, but they do have Messi in the killer instinct.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Yeah, you've summed it up really well there, I think
in commentary and you never quite know what you've said
at the time, but I think at one point, with
maybe about fifteen minutes ago, I said something like, are
we witnessing the last tango? You know, because that was
what came into my head talking about Argentina and Messi
in particular, was that going to be the last Messi
tango at the World Cup? And he's given us so
(14:18):
many memories down the years, you know, a once in
a lifetime footballer, but you still have the feeling that
if one goal went in that it could change the
course of events. And this is what actually reminded me
of another classic game that I was fortunate enough to
cover more than twenty years ago, Meeland against Liverpool and
(14:40):
Istanbul Champions League Final two thousand and five, when Meelan
were three nil in front.
Speaker 7 (14:44):
Liverpool looked as though they were.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Out of it completely, but somehow came back from three
nil to make it three three went to penalties in
Liverpool won, and that was weirdly in my head. When
Romero scored the goal for two to one, I thought, okay,
all right, see and I would say that we talk
a lot about Messi, and some people say we talk
too much about Messi, but I do not think that
(15:07):
sort of comeback could have been made minus Leonel Messi.
This was the Messy comeback. And it's not just what
he does individually as a footballer. It's the influence he
has on his teammates and the regard, the esteem in
which he is held within the Argentina side. And of
course he had a big part to.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
Play in all of it.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
You know, the goal there for two to two especially,
But yeah, I think this is one that I'm pretty
confident in saying in twenty thirty forty years time, people
will tell their grandchildren yet remember that Leonel Messi inspired
comeback against Egypt.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
It's right up there, right at the top of the
tree with World Cup stories.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So, Derek, I want to talk about the US team
real quick. You know, listen, it's a tough it's a
bit of a tough sell here. Oh the US every
every World Cup were supposed to be better and we
never really break through. But something I saw is in
that Argentina come back, I saw grit. I saw we're
not going to quit. And Mexico was down to nothing
to England. They didn't quit. They rallied hard. Belgium was
(16:14):
down to nothing to Senecal. They did not throw in
the towel. They rallied hard. I didn't see a rally
from the US against Belgium. I saw a team that
kind of rolled over. It was like, we're cooked, it's over.
And I just wonder, you watch a lot of soccer,
is that something that can be coached into the team,
because just the slump shoulders, the USA falls behind early
and they never really mounted a rally.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Yeah, just an observation as an outsider, I actually think
the USA used to have grit in spades. I used
to believe that they weren't the most technically gifted side.
I'm talking about, you know, fifteen twenty years ago. They
were going back to Bruce Arena and Bob Bradley, and
there were some good individuals, but my goodness, there was grit,
there was gumption, there was belief, and I think that
(17:00):
with this new generation it's gone in a slightly different direction.
They are better technically, no doubt, and maybe they're better
technically in some areas, but they don't quite have that
same kind of we are going to take it to
the limit to try to win every game.
Speaker 8 (17:17):
Now.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
At the same time, I think sometimes again this is
just an observation, when I listened to USA fans, I
think they believe that there's this sort of path that
you go on and you get better and better and better,
and then eventually you.
Speaker 7 (17:32):
Win the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I've did around long enough to see that for just
about every country, it.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Doesn't go like that.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It goes uptown, up, down uptown, you know, even for
the great football companies. Look at BRAZILA this World Cup.
They've had a poor World Cup by their standards. Germany,
the country where I work, you know, you know, they
stand for excellence when it comes to international football, but
they're going through a bad patch.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
So all I would say is, you know, I don't
get too.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Down about it and think that because it didn't happen
this time against Belgium, that that can't be strides taken
in the future. I just think this is the nature
of international football. Most countries have been trying to win
the World Cup forever and have never managed it. It's
a very select group that's actually been able to break through,
and to be honest, it's part of the fun of it.
(18:20):
I mean, I come from a very small country Scotland.
We've never made it out of a group stage in
a major international tournament. We hold the indominius record for that.
So you live and die with your team, and yes,
you want to get better, but I think you also
have to be a bit realistic and say, okay, right
of sixteen was that par for the course.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
For this USA team? It's sort of what was the
par for my course? Anyway?
Speaker 4 (18:43):
I thought right of sixteen that would be anything better
is a bonus.
Speaker 7 (18:48):
Anything below that would be a disappointment. That's how it
ended so.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Interestingly to pivot to the macro view of the World Cup.
In the quarterfinals, France is the new favorite. They have
been for a couple of rounds, but coming into the
World Cup, Spain was viewed largely as the favorite, the
team to beat the betting markets.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I'm just curious, why.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Do you think that has changed, just because of the
offense that France has, I mean, the unbelievable midfield and forwards.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
But Spain hasn't even conceidered a goal yet.
Speaker 10 (19:15):
Derek.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah, it's funny you say that because I was asked,
so as most of us were before the tournament, who
would win the World Cup, and I said Spain and
France in that order, but not much between them, and
I was well aware that they were potentially on a
collision course of the semi final, and that remains the case.
I think it is that I think France have been
a bit more spectacular. I commentated on one of the
(19:37):
Spain games, and they're very good at what they do,
but they sometimes can sort of take the oxygen out.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Of a game a little bit.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
It's very much well, they have changed slightly, it's still
very much dependent on the passing game, and the opposition
don't often get much.
Speaker 7 (19:53):
Of a look.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
In France have a bit more flair about how they
do it, with flair players such as of course Getting
and Babe and Michael Lolise and Bele and the list
goes on. But I think there's not an awful lot
between them, and were they to meet as looks lightly
in the semi final, then I think that, you know,
we're talking about a whisker between them and you know,
(20:17):
potentially going all the way, maybe going to penalties and
a meeting like that.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, all right, So let me ask about England.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
With the US eliminated, I've backed England now, that's that's the.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Team I'm rooting for.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
It's tough not to love this team, Derek, Between Bellingham
Harry Kane, they're very likable. Going into Mexico and getting
that win in a hostile environment. I'm just curious they
now face Earling, Holland and Norway, which I mean, hell,
you talk about teams that haven't done anything. Norway hadn't
done anything. I mean, they couldn't qualify. I'm just curious
(20:48):
your thoughts on that game, how that shakes out England
versus Norway.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I make England slight favorites. I think it will be
a test against Norway because what we've seen is yes,
there's Arling Holland, but there are other players in their
ranks who can damage anybody. I'm a huge Harry Kane
fan because I see him every week working in Germany,
and not just Harry Kane the striker or even the
human being, because he's a great guy, but also the
(21:14):
complete footballer and the strings he has to his bow
these days as almost a playmaker as well as a
goal scorer. And it's natural to focus on Jude Bellingham
as well. Like to give Thomas Stuker some of the
credit for it, because he came in for a bit
of criticism for a squad selection at the start, but
I think England I agree. I think previous incarnations of
(21:36):
England were not as easy to like. I think that
this is a good bunch that they have together and
as I said, I make them favorites against Norway.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
And then again, who knows would.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
They play Argentina in a mondumental semi vital Switzerland would
have their own say on that, but it's shaping up
quite nicely for England after that scare that they got
against d R Congo.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
It's interesting the Argentina matchup. I was doing some ex'es
and o's. It's almost like England's going to have a
very good chance against Argentina.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I don't know, Derek. People are getting caught up in
the Messi stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Understandably, they haven't been particularly sharp in this World Cup.
I think you alluded to that. I don't know what
it is, but maybe it's just a lot of watching
Messi and saying, oh leo now will take over.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But I think England win that game.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
What do you think, Well, I think they have a
real chance if it does come to that. I think
England's Argentina, Norway, it could be any which way.
Speaker 7 (22:29):
Switzerland as well.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Overlook them because they can be a little bit dull,
but they've discovered the weing habit. I think if it
were to be England against Argentina, well, I think it's
dangerous about Argentina is that. Yes, at times it's a
bit underwhelming because they don't have a lot of pace
in their team.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
They're quite a technical team.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
They rely on Messi, but they rely on these little
combinations and these busts within a game, and I think
we saw that quite a lot in cats Are as well,
and the nucleus of that team is still in place.
So Argentina against England, Yeah, I mean it would be
a semifinal to relish, no doubt about it. I'm not
sure that I would go into it thinking this team
(23:11):
has the advantage over the other.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
I would think it could be a very even contest.
Let's see if they need.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
All right, Derek Ray, Fox Sports announcer. True legend, Derek,
it was an honor to talk to you, man.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I love listening to your stuff. Keep up the good
work on man.
Speaker 7 (23:24):
Oh, thank you, my friend, and the pleasure is all mine, all.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Right, Derek Ray, Fox Sports announcer. All right, let's go
to Rachel Nichols with the news.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
No, no turn on the news.
Speaker 9 (23:35):
This is the herd Line News.
Speaker 8 (23:38):
Well, Jason, you've heard of Shador Sanders. Are you making
a million? Which his work media attention last year? Well,
he is definitely making some noise again.
Speaker 11 (23:48):
Browns have not named a Week one starter, so Shadur
will battle Deshaun Watson in camp and Jason, he's talking
about it on his YouTube channel, saying even becoming the
Brown starter. If that does happen, it's small potatoes compared
to his other career goals.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I'm not content just being on no team. You're doing right.
I'm trying to get right.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
I'm trying to be one of the greatest. Do you
gotta be thankful?
Speaker 7 (24:10):
But no, it's still more.
Speaker 8 (24:11):
Yeah, still it's still more.
Speaker 11 (24:15):
Do you like the confidence Jason or then he wants
to be an all time great or do you feel
like this is unnecessarily putting another.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Target on his back? I like the multi media play Rachel.
He's like Jaylen Brown going on Twitch saying pop it off.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
So now shadoor It just has his own YouTube channel
where he's now producing content.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
These guys are out for a while.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, the modern athletes, they know, why would I give
an interview where my words could get twisted. I can
just go sit on a rock and get interviewed and
say I want to be the greatest, you know, I
mean maybe the greatest quarterback in the Cleveland Brown's quarterback
room would be a start. I'm not going to bash
the kid, you know whatever. I didn't see it last year,
(24:56):
We'll see. I didn't see upgrades a wide receiver for
this team, Deshaun Watson. You know's he ain't just rolling
over and conceding this job. So I don't know what
to make a Shador.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 11 (25:10):
I mean, I said to one of our producers this morning.
I never have a problem with an athlete saying I
think I can be the best or I want to
be the best.
Speaker 8 (25:16):
That is how you have to think to compete at
this level. It's just whether those are inside thoughts or
outside thoughts. And I don't know what's better for Shador.
Speaker 11 (25:27):
I mean, the people who love him love this kind
of stuff from him, and maybe it's just part of
what makes them goes.
Speaker 8 (25:31):
We've seen athletes who need to talk like this to
be their best.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
They got to hype themselves up. Don't you do that
before the show? I make it in the room. I'm like,
all right, j Mac, let's go dominate today.
Speaker 8 (25:44):
I will shock you to hear I don't do that,
but all right. Sticking in the NFL, we've talked about
it a bunch.
Speaker 11 (25:50):
Jays the Rams very surprising pick right at number thirteen overall.
They took Tys Simpson out of Alabama to be the
heir apparent behind Stafford, but reports have indicated that Simpson
has yet to separate himself from the other quarterback at
Camp Stetson Barnett, and even in former GM has been
calling him a career backup in various reportings.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
So it was reported recently also that Sean McVey.
Speaker 11 (26:13):
Wants Simpson to work on his communication in the huddle
by looking in a mirror and seeing what his face
looks like and how his voice sounds when he's communicating
in the huddle.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
Does all of this make you feel better? Worse? Neutral?
I mean, how is it aging this pick?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I like that looking in the mirror practicing his huddle.
Speaker 8 (26:33):
Can you do that in the morning team.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
I do not do that.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I've heard it's a motivational ploy. Though you look in
the mirror. I'm going to do well today. Let's make
it a data Remember speaking of mc veigh, When I.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Saw his name on the screen, Rachel, Yes, I instantly thought,
I'm sure you saw it on Instagram. McVeigh vacationing with
his wife and dude is shreddit. I don't know what
he's doing, but I mean, he's got like an eight
pack and I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
McVeigh maybe he.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Could talk to his quarterback Ty Simpson and they'll start
working out together.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I just I don't understand the Simpson hype. I'm not
gonna lie. I liked him coming out. I just don't
see it with the Rams. I don't Rachel.
Speaker 11 (27:08):
What do we just discuss? Jason Instagram not a source? Yeah,
I appreciate was it?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
There was a photo doctored?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Because I listen, dude, he was saying credit like, I mean, ahgh,
I don't know what he's on.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Maybe peptides.
Speaker 7 (27:22):
There you go.
Speaker 8 (27:23):
This is more your world than mine.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 11 (27:25):
I do want to get into this with you because
I got to talk about baseball here and Shohei Otani.
Speaker 8 (27:29):
You know, I'm a Dodgers fan.
Speaker 11 (27:31):
Notched another accolade in his career belt last night, swatting
the three hundredth home run of his career.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
And here's the call from Joe Davis.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Really, he's a guy that you just trying to find.
Square up highlines rive center.
Speaker 9 (27:45):
Field carries over the three hundred for so Hello Tani.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
It was the line drive that was kept on rides
and kept on climbing.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Three hundred.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Hold on, I'm Sario Tony's major league career.
Speaker 11 (28:05):
No, look again, I'm a Dodger gal, so I will
tell you that one of those games he played was
at the NLCS, was the most godlike game I have
ever seen. I would say, the best combined performance from
a player. We heard a lot during the World Series.
We are lucky, folks to be living in a time
where the best baseball player ever is walking the earth.
Are you ready to crown him the best baseball player ever?
(28:28):
Or do you still need to see how the rest
of the career pands out.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I mean, no, no, that's a great point. So I
would agree, yeah, best baseball player ever. But Rachel, so,
yesterday we saw the best baseball player ever and the
best soccer player ever, both perfecting their craft.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
We have, for my money, the best basketball player ever
a free agent. I mean, that is what a time
to be alive when all union of them are excelling.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And I mean I was thinking about this, Okay, So
like at any point it's say nineteen ninety two, we're
sports fans like, boy, we're so lucky we've got the
greatest best a player Jordan At the time on football
baseball like that wasn't a thing Okay, right now, is
like the Golden era in sports in America?
Speaker 11 (29:08):
Yeah, I mean I think there's been a real leap
in the way athletes take care of themselves. I was
asking the guys to make a comparison to Babe Ruth
just because that's the guy obviously is an icon of baseball,
but also you know, pitcher, hitter, all of that stuff.
So I guess the number for you here, Jason. The
numbers favorite Ruth a little bit. The big ones right
that we're talking about. He had a three four to
(29:29):
two average. Otani has a two hundred and eighty two average,
and Otani's era is two point eight three compared to
two point two eight era from Babe Ruth. But then
I decided to dig deeper, Jason. In my research, I
did not use Instagram as a source. I did look
up what some of the people Babe Ruth was playing
(29:50):
against were, Like, we know that there was segregation, so
that's a huge thing, right when you're starting There.
Speaker 8 (29:57):
Also a lot of the opponents.
Speaker 11 (29:58):
Most of his opponents were not full time baseball players.
In fact, two very notable opponents of his there was
one who was a traveling circus director that in the offseason,
he owned and ran a traveling circus and ran it
from his stops playing baseball even when he was away
from the circus itself.
Speaker 8 (30:19):
But one of Babe Ruth's teammates, pretty.
Speaker 11 (30:22):
Good, was nicknamed the Mary Mortitician because he was a
funeral director the entire time he was playing baseball, and
one time, according to urban myth, accidentally when he was
driving a hurst to the game, as he often did,
didn't realize there.
Speaker 8 (30:40):
Was a body in the back. So you know, these
are some of the guys Babe.
Speaker 11 (30:44):
Ruth are playing at and a Chinese numbers are very similar,
if not exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
As good to all the potential journalists in the crowd.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
That's how it's done. I'm just thinking, did that so nicely?
I would have just destroyed the pipe better and the
chimney sweep who was batting fifth in the lineup.
Speaker 11 (30:59):
But I say I'm stumping from my guy, best baseball player.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Of all time?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Rachel with the news.
Speaker 9 (31:05):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line News.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Come it up next.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
There's a big new book out on Leonel Messi and
the author is stopping by.
Speaker 9 (31:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
at noon. Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Let's welcome in Paul jan Orio from The Athletic. He
is a very prolific soccer writer.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Just wrote the book on Messi and why didn't you
know what? Paul Messi just happens to have the greatest
comeback in World Cup history yesterday? Your thoughts on the game.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
There's a picture of the book, The Messy Effect, How
the global legend changed the future of American soccer.
Speaker 10 (31:44):
Yeah, I mean he's insane, right, Like every time you
think that he's done doing special magic things on the
biggest age, he pulled something else out. And you know,
I think this one even surprised him. You could see
in his emotion after the game how how important it
was to him. And he said after he felt a
responsibility right because he had missed that penalty kick that
(32:05):
he felt.
Speaker 7 (32:05):
Changed the game.
Speaker 10 (32:06):
So for him to get the goal the way he did,
for the team to come back the way it did,
it seems like this Messy story doesn't want to end.
And certainly I think you can see with this Argentina team,
as we did in Qatar four years ago, how much
it means to them to continue to push Argentina and
Messi towards more and more history.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, it really is amazing.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
But I want to use that as a spinoff to
the US because, you know, Paul, like all the energy
and grit and resolve that we saw from Argentina, we
didn't see any of that at all from the US
once they were down again. We saw it from Mexico
down to nothing against England, Argentina was down to nothing,
that both of those teams rallied hard even though Mexico lost.
(32:51):
The US didn't really put up a fight against Belgium.
I think that's why there's so much outrage. I'm just curious, like,
why do you think we did not disc.
Speaker 10 (33:02):
It really felt like the moment was too big for
this team. You know, forty million people watching. What an
enormous missed opportunity for American soccer. And there is a
connection between what Messi is doing and what the US
team is doing and what's going to.
Speaker 7 (33:17):
Happen for the sport.
Speaker 10 (33:18):
And the US did have an obligation to put something
better on that stage, and from the very go for
you know, from the first whistle, Serginio desk mistaking the
ball thinking it was going to be a US throw
and seeing it out you could almost feel the nerves
and the tension coming out into the field. And then conversely,
I think Belgium was united around this cause, playing for football,
(33:42):
playing against FIFA, and a team that had been so disjointed,
that is so talented on paper but just looks like
they don't really fit well together, suddenly had something to
fight for. And the US was left grasping at a
team that was playing faster than them, thinking faster than them,
playing harder than them, and they could never really recover,
even as the crowd in Seattle tried to push them back.
Speaker 7 (34:04):
Into the game, it didn't work.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Well, the round before, Belgium was down to nothing to Senegal,
just getting their butts kicked, and they sub off de
Bruna and Doku like two of their best players, and
it was like, okay, well we rallied to win. And
then their coach went and started the same group that rallied,
leaving de Bruyne on the bench, and people are like, wow,
I mean I had a buddy texting met Paul who
played a high level of soccer. We should ben to
(34:28):
Pulisic at the half. He's been that bad and I'm like,
we would never do that in America. They eventually pulled Pulisic,
But I got to ask you, what did you think
of his performance?
Speaker 7 (34:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (34:39):
I think he was He just wasn't very good, and
neither was the rest of the US team, But Polisic
especially had a terrible half. He gave the ball away
eleven times in the first forty five minutes, more than
any other player on the field. And that's not a
typical Christian Polistic performance. You know, he has been the
player who typically steps up on the biggest stages for
the US. He scored a Nation's League final, He scored
(35:00):
the goal to send the US out of the group
stage against Iran in the last World Cup. Was the
best player on the field in the first forty five
minutes of that Paraguay game that got in the country
so excited. And yet here in this enormous moment, it
felt like he was trying to do too much. It
felt like he was trying to take all of that
onto his shoulders. And I think Christian Bilizic is at
his best when he's not doing that, when he trusts
(35:22):
the players around him, and it just looked I thought
he was kind of the microcosm of the story as
a whole for the US. All of this hope, all
of this potential, all of this belief around this player,
around this team, and then when the country's watching them
at this moment where a win would do so much
to change people's minds about American soccer, American men's soccer,
(35:42):
they don't just lose, they get completely battered and it
sets the narrative back.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So I would still argue that this World Cup was
a success for the US team.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We play our best effort in the group stage ever,
most goals we ever scored in the World Cup, Like
we were.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Really good, and then it all fell apart.
Speaker 7 (35:59):
I'm just one.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Do you think that whole Balligan stuff was a distraction
for the US? Head it because we did not look
anything like that in the other games. I'm excluding Turkey
because we started like ten backups. But I don't know, Paul,
what do you.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Think was it a distraction or was or did maybe
Belgium rise to the occasion saying man, screw these guys
in there and their preferential treatment.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
I think it's the.
Speaker 10 (36:21):
Latter more than the former, talking to guys around the team,
you know, both in the mixzone after the game and
since then. They really kind of shut the world out
in the twenty four hours before the game. They felt
like they didn't really realize how big it had become
until after the game when they started to absorb more
of it. But Belgium certainly did absorb all of it
as it was going on, and you're a Tillimon said,
(36:43):
when we heard the news that Baligan was coming back in,
when we saw that Trump was evolved, Essentially, they held
a team meeting and they said, let's use this and
go do our talking on the field.
Speaker 7 (36:52):
So it motivated Belgium, it did.
Speaker 10 (36:55):
They used it as fuel in that locker room, and
they felt like they wanted to make a statement against
a team that the rest of the world was looking
at as saying, you think your privilege is what's going
to get you to the next round, We're going to.
Speaker 7 (37:05):
Set you back in place.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
That's good stuff. Paul dropping some bombs.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Wow, I didn't even know that polisicstat gave it away
eleven times in the first half.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's terrible.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
So let me ask you, do you think we need
material changes across the board to get ready for twenty thirty.
I mean, Poachattino, somebody was telling me they think it's
sixty forty. He stays, Or listen, we have our quote
unquote golden generation where we only need a few tweaks.
Obviously Tim Reem is ain't coming back. We probably need
to find a new goalie. But or do you think
(37:36):
we've got something here? We just ran into a bit
of a buzzsaw.
Speaker 7 (37:41):
No. I mean, this is.
Speaker 10 (37:42):
Actually a lot of what my book, The Messi Effect
is about. It's how do you push this game forward
in the country. And I think there are a few
big picture things that need to change, And I actually
think a lot of the conversation has revolved around you soccer,
and there's a lot to get done and make better
in that area. But the professional league in this country
needs to get better, and the onus is on them
(38:02):
to improve the product, to improve the level of the
league so that we're setting the ceiling higher for our
best young American players who are coming through MLS academies
getting to the first team that they're training in better environments,
they're playing in better games, they're developing at a higher level.
That's critical to the future of this national team, and
so there is an enormous responsibility that now gets transferred
(38:22):
over to Major League Soccers owners and its executives to
make votes and change the rules in this league so
that it.
Speaker 7 (38:28):
Can be more competitive with the rest of the world.
That's enormously important.
Speaker 10 (38:32):
But those changes aren't going to take place fast enough
to have an impact in four years time, and so
there has to be a little bit of an internal
search here amongst the players who are already a part
of this pool and the young players who are starting
to come through, players like Xavier Gozo, the nineteen year
old in Salt Lake, or Audrey Mahmedi, the teenager in
Red Bulls Julian Hall, these young players who are starting
to play more minutes and be more competitive, there has
(38:57):
to be an understanding that you still have to have
the mentality American soccers always have.
Speaker 7 (39:01):
You can dream of playing on the biggest stages.
Speaker 10 (39:03):
You can play in aggressive and attractive style, as the
US did against Paraguay, but you cannot lose the fight
that you were talking about that wasn't there against Belgium.
You cannot lose the mentality that would think that you
can just waltz onto a field and beat a team
that is just as good or better on paper, who
have players playing at just as high of a level
as your golden generation.
Speaker 7 (39:24):
That you have to be able to fight your way
to a win.
Speaker 10 (39:28):
And that mentality is what has to carry forward, whether
it's Pochettino or not, that mentality has to be there
in this pool. And that's what I give Pochetino credit
for for instilling into the national team program.
Speaker 7 (39:39):
Whoever US Soccer.
Speaker 10 (39:40):
Hires if he doesn't come back, the number one task
is maintaining that culture within the program of saying the
players don't get to pick and choose when they come in.
You're either all in or you're not.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
You say that's number one, and you're probably right, But
one could argue that dual nationals and essentially recruiting them
could be number one because plow Mallagan, I think he
was our best player at.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
The Cup, and you know, he could have gone Nigeria,
could have.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Gone England, and I'm nerding out and I'm looking at,
you know, twenty thirty young kids sixteen to twenty two,
and like some of the best ones are dual nationals
who haven't picked which side to go into.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
So do you track some of that stuff? Is it
too far ahead?
Speaker 10 (40:19):
Yeah, of course, of course, It's always been a part
of the equation for the US men's national team. There's
always players that can can choose one country or the other,
and it's always a big part of the national team
picture to recruit those players.
Speaker 7 (40:30):
You know, whether we're talking about Noah Kai Banks.
Speaker 10 (40:33):
Who's playing over in Germany, the center back who hasn't
picked one or the other, or whether we're talking about
somebody like Julian Hall, the forward at Red Bulls whose
mother is Polish and who the Poland national Federation is
trying to recruit him away from the US men's national
team program.
Speaker 7 (40:46):
So that's always a big part of this.
Speaker 10 (40:48):
And yet, and yeah, I mean, a lot of jokes
that were going around the group chats was like, we
need the US soldiers to stay in those bases over
in Europe to make sure that we're still producing the
future generations of this national team. But you know, certainly,
I think it's all of this right, All of these
factors come together, the mentality and the culture finding the
right players.
Speaker 7 (41:08):
But I really think for the long term of this sport.
Speaker 10 (41:11):
We have to start holding Major League Soccer accountable to change,
to grow faster, to be a little bit more aggressive.
They've built the infrastructure in this country. We've seen it
in this World Cup tournament, right. We've seen the stadiums,
the fans, the training facilities that are all around this country.
Speaker 7 (41:25):
The infrastructure has been built out.
Speaker 10 (41:27):
There's a permanence now for the sport in America that
didn't exist when I was growing up. It's here now,
and so now this country is showing they're ready to
support soccer in a bigger way. And if we want
to see this national team program grow, it has to
start with the professional leagues in this country.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Paulton Oreo the Athletic wrote the Messy Effect. Paul, congratulations
on all your success and great stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Thank you for the chat.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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