October 4, 2024 • 55 mins
SPOILER-FREE for 39 minutes...
We discuss the follow up to the 2019 hit - "Joker: Folie à Deux'
Directed by Todd Phillips and starring Joakin Phoenix & Lady Gaga - Arthur Fleck is institutionalized at Arkham, awaiting trial for his crimes as Joker. While struggling with his dual identity, Arthur not only stumbles upon true love, but also finds the music that's always been inside him.
What did you think of the movie? How does it compare to the original? Where does Phoenix rank against the other Jokers?
ALSO - WE RANK JOKERS!
Join the conversation on social media: @MACandGUpodcast
We discuss the follow up to the 2019 hit - "Joker: Folie à Deux'
Directed by Todd Phillips and starring Joakin Phoenix & Lady Gaga - Arthur Fleck is institutionalized at Arkham, awaiting trial for his crimes as Joker. While struggling with his dual identity, Arthur not only stumbles upon true love, but also finds the music that's always been inside him.
What did you think of the movie? How does it compare to the original? Where does Phoenix rank against the other Jokers?
ALSO - WE RANK JOKERS!
Join the conversation on social media: @MACandGUpodcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mac.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
I was on the social media app X have.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You heard of it? Oh? I have heard of this.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yeah, And I saw someone posted a comical cartoon, a
comic cartoon strip.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
If you will, sure? Sure?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
The person who tweeted it out was movies are therapy.
At movies our therapy. I don't know who the author
of this is. Maybe they're they're a coward, they're hiding.
I don't know sure, but it was a fella on
a date, little heavy set, curly hair, mustache, and the
and the guy says to the lady, it's a podcast
(00:31):
about me and my buddy discussing movies. But the catches
we also sort of joke around.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'll tell you, Oh, whenever that podcast says, I'm in
on it, I like it. Never heard of one like that.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I was gonna say, it sounds terrible. It sounds horrible.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Usually they just talk about the movies without the joking,
you know, and then it's funny. Today we're talking about
all sorts of joking.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I was gonna say, for us, you know, it's me
and an acquaintance. I wouldn't call us friends.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I don't want to go that far.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Who sort of joke around and sometimes talk about movies.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's maybe better. One Goo three, Yeah, Jos three,
King of Queen MARYL.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Street Entertainment.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm Do and I'm Mac.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And we are the Mac and Goo Program. We bring
you uncontrollable laughter.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah. Today it's just nothing but jokes, jokes, just the
real Joky mcjokerton of a movie. We are talking Joker two,
Joker foality and do it. That's right, uh joker and
I'm assuming French. Those are French words.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Go. The First Joker came out in the year twenty nineteen,
and I would say that it was a smashed success
at the box office.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It was the highest grossing R rated movie of all
time at the time.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yep, and you liked it. I thought it was all right,
but in general pretty well received by both more so
the audience than the critics, but pretty well received over it.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But also I liked it outside of the Batman stuff.
I liked it as an Arthur Fleck Joaquin Phoenix is
putting on a clinic acting wise, It's a really well
shot movie. It's a pretty succinct story, and you get
that amazing pop at the end.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah. I really only didn't mind it because of Joaquin Phoenix,
But that's neither here nor there. We I think even
the people that may have loved that movie, I think
a lot of us might agree. And this is backed
up by what this movie might make this weekend. I
don't think we needed a sequel from that movie. In fact,
a lot of people that really enjoyed it said, I
(02:59):
don't know if Oliver wantet first movie again, never mind
a sequel.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Does Todd Phillips look like someone who has a plan?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Dude? Joke offaly add is projected to open this weekend
with fifty five to sixty million domestically. Uh three weeks ago.
That original projection was over seventy million, and for some perspective,
the first movie opened with almost one hundred million ninety
six million, So there's a good chance that this second
(03:27):
movie makes half of what the first movie did on
opening weekend. Usually that's flipped.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Also, the original forecast for this movie, when they first
forecasted it, it was at one hundred to one hundred
and ten million dollars.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Because you would think it would beat the first one,
And that's right. I don't know. I don't even know
if it's gonna get a half of the first one.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Right, and I believe you and I we made a
bet it was five hundred million. I might lose that bet.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I think you're going to I.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Think I'm gonna lose that bet.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
But this is extremely rare for a movie in this
comic book ish genre to have a follow up to
a pretty well received first movie crumble as hard as
this one's seemingly crumbling. I mean to fuck up the idea.
The marketing of this movie is just it's tremendous that
(04:17):
this might make fifty and the first one almost made
a hunt.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I'll also say this is that, you know, real people,
not idiots like us. I'm seeing so many people have
no idea that this is a musical.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, but it's like kind of a musical, all right.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Todd Phillips, calm down. Todd Phillips gave interviews. He's like,
he's like, well, it's a musical, but it's not. We're
only using music when we when we can't describe it
with words, and it's like, that's what musicals do.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I would say for the common theater goer, they're gonna
think this is very musical. I think for anyone that
actually watches musicals, they'll be like, yeah, it's sort of
a musical.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So you're not appealing to either crowd. One hundred, that's
a hundred, splitting the baby in half and throwing the
the bathwater away.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And and this that's a common theme with everything they
tried to do in this movie, gou This is a
rated R crime drama, musical, and thriller, and I would
argue they didn't do any of those things.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Well everything in it. No, I'll I'll say this, Let's
let's be kind at first. Okay, this is a very
well shot movie. I think there's some really nice cinematography
in this movie.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
It is a well shot and well acted movie.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well acted as well. The two leads do a very
good job doing what they're.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Asked what they're asked.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, but you can tell that there was never a
sequel planned. And then when they made was it one
point five billion dollars something like that and they had
to make a sequel, they went into it being like, Oh,
wouldn't this be cool if we did this? And do
you think at any point when they were making this movie,
(05:57):
like say halfway through, they're like, oh, this really isn't working,
but we've already shot so much of the movie, we
have to keep going with this musical thing.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I think that Todd Phillips opened up his fridge of
concepts and just dumped everything onto the plate, onto the
bowl and tried to mix it together. And once it
was like starting to seem kind of weird, they're like, oh,
we'll go get Gaga because she's weird and she's multifaceted,
she could do all sorts of stuff. And I think
he thought Gaga could save this movie, or not even
(06:29):
save it, because I think in his head, but if
that sting, he's successful, no, and he's thinking, we need.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Then do more Gaga. Make it a Gaga the first
You could have done this movie where you don't even
see Arthur Fleck until the trial. Don't even show him
in prison, just show Gaga leading up to there. I'm
being dead serious. That would have been better. I also,
so I texted you about this, is that I thought
that almost every musical number in this movie brought the
(06:55):
entire thing to a screeching halt. But I also think
that if you take the music out of it, this
is one of the most boring paint drying on the
wall stories, that it might have more momentum, but there's
nothing interesting about it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, severe pacing issue, that's for sure. And speaking of
the pace and the run time, one hundred and thirty
eight minutes, so two hours and eighteen minutes, it felt
like three.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I checked my phone. First off, I was eating popcorn.
I was having a fucking ball. I was eating so
much fucking popcorn. Yeah, And at one point I'm like, like,
what where are we in the run time? Because I
feel like nothing has happened, but also this has felt
so long. And then I checked my phone. I'm like,
there's another hour.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Wh Yeah. When I realized there was an hour left,
I'm like, what is this going to be an hour
of a court case? It was? It was.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I don't want to tip my hand here, but this
might have been my least enjoyable movie experience, maybe since
hell Boy.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
So I'm having a hard time. Yeah, I understand that
I was like more annoyed and disappointed in this with
this movie more than I was like mad as I
get at other movies, because I knew going in I
probably wasn't gonna like it, And that is huge if
you if you're coming off the first Joker loving it
and expecting to love this, you were gonna be fucking pissed.
(08:23):
You're gonna be mad. And I think if you go
into this seeing it as like a big Gaga stand,
you'll be like, Oh, she was really good, but they
didn't fucking use her enough, so you're probably gonna be mad. Also,
everyone like they just middled everything here on all sorts
of concepts and and I have a hard time figuring
out an avenue for someone to like this movie.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I also want to say this, though, is that Jaque
and Phoenix is such a good actor that like he
does everything up there and you just kind of forget
that he's in the movie. But he does a fantastic
job with what he's believable.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah goo uh. No audio and score revealed yet. On
roddy Te's the critics are at thirty nine through one
hundred and twenty three reviews. For some context, the first
one was sixty nine percent nice from the critics, which
admittedly isn't great, but for this movie and what you
were expecting, I would say that was obviously a thumbs up.
(09:19):
Eighty nine percent from the audience. The audience loved that
movie for the most.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It's a good movie.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
On Metacritic A forty eight through thirty six reviews. What
does that mean the first one out of fifty nine,
So essentially, the critics on the first one I think
gave it a soft thumbs up. This one, this one's
jumped down probably two tiers, and I wouldn't say a
hard thumbs down. And that is in large pot because
the two leads are really good. But I think the
(09:44):
critics are going to have a hard time trying to
understand what this movie was trying to do. And not
critics everyone, everyone's gonna have a hard time figuring out
what the goal of this movie was.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
You know, as odd as after this movie ended, several
strangers I had never met these people like approached me
and started talking to me about the movie. Like at
different points. It wasn't like a like a big crowd
of people. Like after the movie someone came up to
me and they're like, man, I really wish I saw
that in IMAX, And I'm like, why what about this that?
(10:13):
I mean, maybe some of the musical numbers.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Was he whistlin snapping, snapping, and he.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Was uh swinging his stopwatch around. And then on the
way out, I was walking with my wife I'm talking
with my wife and someone just talked to us for
like fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I think that probably just speaks to how fucking confused
people are.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I guess that they had to talk to strangers about it.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Goose, Speaking of the people that made this movie, this
is written by Scott Silver and Todd Phillips. Scott Silver
you would know from two of my favorite movies, Grown
Up Here eight Mile in the Fighter. He also did
The Finest Hours and was one of the writers on
the First Joker. Todd Phillips of course known pretty well.
If you don't know Todd Phillips is he was the
writer and director on Road Trip, Old School Starsky and
(10:59):
hutch One a Goose favor, It's a Good One, a
writer on Borat actually made the movie School for Scoundrels.
That was you love that movie Due Date. He did
Dude Date and then uh directed all three Hangover movies,
but wrote the second and third ones, the noticeably worst ones,
and of course also got war Dogs in there. Wow.
I've heard people love that movie, and I've also heard
(11:20):
people not like that movie, which I guess maybe speaks
to what Todd Phillips does. And then, of course the
first Joker movie you, I think if you can now
look through Todd Phillips' catalog over the last twenty five years,
I think we can agree he should steer away from.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
The drama Jeta, away from sequels.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, that as well.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I would. More than anything else, I feel.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Like Joker was a shot in the dark. He happened
to get it right, and I don't stick to your
two thousands comedies that don't play anymore. I don't know
if he knows how to do anything else.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It just seems like he stumbled upon two smash hits.
The Hangover obviously, was the fucking bella de ball for
a very long time. Well, old school yes, but the
Hangover more than old school, sure, and then Joker School No.
But I'm saying money wise and even culturally yes, the
Hangover was the most dominant comedy for a very long time.
(12:13):
There was years after that where every comedy movie commercial
would say the best movie since the Hangover. They still
do that. But the Hangover two not great, Hangover three
even worse. This reminds me of both The Hangover two
and The Hangover three, where the Hangover two is almost
(12:34):
a carbon copy of the first one. This is kind
of like that, but then also hear me out, hear
me out. He gets back into like the wimpy Arthur stuff.
But the Hangover three is it doesn't make any sense.
None of it makes any sense. And a lot of
that is playing here.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, so you heard it here first. Joker two is
much like the Hangover two and three.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's like if the Hangover two and three had a baby,
it's jokerfale I do.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Goo. Synopsis of Joker Folia ad Arthur Fleck is institutionalized
at Arkham, awaiting trial for his crimes as Joker. While
struggling with his dual identity, Arthur not only stumbles upon
true love, but also finds the music that's always been
inside him.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
May I stop you there?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
That's a terrible synopsis.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I hate that they used Arkham because that had fifteen
people there.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
They also called it Arkham State Hospital, which I didn't
care for.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, and if if you're gonna use Arkham, slip in
some easter eggs.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yep, call it asylum. Make it less like low security
than it was. A murderer shouldn't have that much free
reign in a prison. That's that was insane. Go this
movie of course stars Joaquin Phoenix as Arthur Fleck. Lady
Gagay here credited, and this pisses me off. Lee Quinzel,
not Harley Quinzel, Lee Quinn.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Also, if you read any of the synopsis, it just says.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Lee yep, because they don't buy it, because.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
They don't want it to be a Joker Harley Quinn movie.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
They let me ask you this once again, and this
was my major point in the first one. Why are
you dropping Batman, easter eggs and character names like Lee
Quinzel and Harvey Dent, but you call your guy Arthur Flack.
Brendan Gleeson is in here as Jackie Sullivan, which he
almost feels overcasted. You didn't need Brendan Gleeson in that role.
(14:27):
He does a good job. Catherine Keener almost the same thing,
like almost doesn't get enough screen time as Mary and
Stewart that is Arthur's attorney, Zazzi Beats pops back up
here briefly as Sophie Dumont, Steve Coogan as Patty Myers,
and then they casted this young strapping lad Harry Lottie
as assistant Da Harvey Dent go and that's I guess
(14:48):
all you would really need to know from the cast.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
My first note here is let's just say for this
movie they buttered me up.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah. So I was unable to attend the official screen
any of this movie, which they only put on one
day before it was releasing in theaters, which is always
a tell the movie's not gonna be that good. And
what did they have to spruce up the crowd for
the movie?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Goo, They gave me a free popcorn and a soda.
So when I gave this forty hot dogs, you know
the reason why.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Me personally, I ate launched too close to the movie
so didn't have an appetite for popcorn. That pissed me off.
I went in with a double sour attitude. I did
get some Swedish fish for the first time in a while.
I did enjoy those, but I wanted popcorn. I didn't
have an appetite for it though. Secondary Yes, I was
your stupid fucking burrito.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So I was sitting there like a pagan shit one
hand burrito, one hand popcorn.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Did you mix the two? No? No, no no.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
But that took up roughly ninety minutes of my runtime,
so it really helped me to.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Summarize my thoughts on this movie, Goo, Before you get
to a couple more of your notes, here is why,
what the fuck? Why make this movie?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And my noint money?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, but it's gonna lose money. It's probably gonna lose money.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
No, but after the first one, this is worth the
risk obviously. So you know what this feels like? This
feels like this like watching the Group No, No, I've
already made that one. I'm gonna I need to make
some more things for clips. This feels like like wb DC,
like the Joker was in public domain and just a
(16:26):
random weirdo took the character and made this with with
no oversight by its parent company. Yes, yeah, isn't that
what it felt like? That?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You're not far off with that that that's the closest.
That's the closest like, uh justification for how this movie
somehow got made. And some of that maybe is because
Gun has taken over DC and this was already in development.
They're like, all right, whatever doing it.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It's also ELSEWHERELD too, it isn't a part of his
main timeline. Yeah, but I could also because Gun is
he said this a couple of times now, is that
he wants his directors to be the creative forces behind
their movies. So maybe he doesn't want to give too
many notes on this stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
No, I think he doesn't give a fuck about this
because the people know this has no connection to what
he's doing.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
But he also said The Flash was the best comic
book movie ever made. Are we starting to get concerned?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Noticeably absent James Gunn's comments about this movie.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Also noticed there was no Flash in this movie. Yeah, unfortunately,
what unless we just didn't see him?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeh da something there?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You're on? Just zip zat badango?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Should we get to the nanagonock? Let me know.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Let me a couple quick things.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
First.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Number one, you like music.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Right, I would consider myself a fan of music.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, you're saying, I'm not sure anymore.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I gotta say too. One of the sub genres at
high MDB for this movie was jukebox musical.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Joke box musical unless you got.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
The jukebox out of nineteen sixty seven, This is not
a jukebox.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
We're all juke boxes are from We found a jukebox
and we played the music from the jukebox.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
This this had what maybe one song you would know
that they sung in this fucking movie.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Come on Get Happy.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, there was. If I had to hurt hear any
characters sing the Saints are Marching in again, Oh my god,
I was gonna lose my fucking mind.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I do like how after the movie I saw it
with my wife and I'm like, what do you think?
And she's like, I like the old songs? Like all right?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Uh so again, if you haven't listened to that Companion
Gaga album, it has that old timey field way. It
feels more like the stuff she did with Tony Bennett
than her other stuff. And I don't cheek the cheek.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yes, Also, I really wanna. I don't want to come
across in this podcast as a poopy pants fanboy.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
No, I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I don't think you feel like I am, though.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
No, no, no, no, first movie, first movie. That's that's on
the table. I don't think that's on the table for
this one.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Because even THHR in one of their write ups, is like,
this movie's not made for the fanboys. I agree, But
my question now is who was it made for?
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah? Right, answer me that riddle me that THHR, you
fuck sticks.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
This movie is fucking boring.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
I listen.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's my note.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
My three word review on x dot com was boring, pointless,
and waste, and I think that also accurately sums up
what we saw.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Also, is this a spoiler? The least sexiest sex scene
of all time?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Most relatable, though I was trying to count. I think
I think it was like eleven pumps, eleven pumps, and
he was done.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
The same as max iced coffee.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Come on, I drink it out nearly black. God, damn it.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I want to get into the naunagon. Yeah, all right,
fun factor. There was one scene that I think I
loved in this movie which showed potential for what this
entire movie could have been. It's a courtroom scene where
the Joker puts on this persona, this like arrogant, over
(20:25):
the top Looney Tunes like persona. And I'm like, if
you had this the entire movie based off of the
events of the first one, and this is what he
has evolved into, that's what the character is. This is
fun and this would have been something.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I remember laughing once. I don't remember what I laughed at.
Legitimate laugh. I got I got one one laugh, not
a hearty laugh, but a nice little lull I think
they were going for some fun factor with the cartoon
at the beginning. I hate it didn't work. Did not
work for me. I don't like that's the type of shit.
So if you were gonna use, like if they had
(21:01):
spotted that cartoon for out to sort of give you
a look into the Arthur's head, that would have worked.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
If they had done that. So if they had mixed
up the music and that, Yeah, after you see that
Arthur is in a music class and they're constantly watching
Looney Tunes pepe le pew, I think I might have
liked that a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You would have it would have been some black noir
vibes like it could have worked. They just didn't do that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Borometer. This is a very generic prison movie and then
a very generic courtroom movie.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I think I think the full final ninety minutes are
incredibly boring.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I kind of are you saying the first two hours
or not boring? No, First of all, how long is
this movie?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I don't know how if you know how to do math.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
It felt like a lifetime watching.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I think the first forty minutes you're okay with the
playfulness to Tit for Tat with Gaga and Arthur, and
then once you get like in the second act and beyond,
it's all downhill Halloween.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Will this movie wane over time? And I'm trying to
think if because of how oddball it is with its
scattershot musical numbers, and like, some of the musical numbers
are pretty good in this I will say this, there
is one with Gaga is it the Mountain Song where
she's she's really letting the piano.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Until she's genuinely singing live. Yes, during the filming on
some scenes, which is impressive. It's just it didn't help
the movie.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I'm just trying to think, like, will I like, is
this a memorable movie?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Not for I. I'll tell you I haven't rewatched the
first one. And if there was any way for me
to describe watching a movie less than I did the
first one, it would be this movie. I'm going to
try to watch this less than I watched the first one.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Satisfactor. How satisfactory was this movie? And the question that
I have does this add to the first movie?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
I don't know where other than like Gaga acting well,
I don't know what you would say it possibly added
at all?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It didn't even really develop Arthur any further. No, it
actually it regrassed him for a while.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
It might e hit his character up too much because
you're you're sort of like you're wanting to play him
as a sympathetic character, being that he's the titular character,
and this made it too muddied. I felt like, like,
I like, to me, this was you know, Joker in
the deck. This has turned the toilet for me. I
(23:33):
sinks in the not call.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Halloween. We just did that one a quator water aqua
water World, There we go. Is this movie better or
worse than the nineteen ninety five classic water World? It sinks? Yep,
sure it does so when it does that, Mac, my
next question is does this reach the depths of hell Boy?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
No? Because the acting is legitimately good in this. The
acting is a trocious in hell Boy.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Hell Boy also looks like vomit. Yeah, and looks like diarrhea.
I will say once again, I don't like the story
in this.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
It looks good at times.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Plemonade, Mac, when life gives you plemins, you make plemonade.
And may I ask you, because I have two people
in mind that might have made plemonade, who do you
believe makes Plemonade.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I had a hard time coming up with anyone. Honestly,
your two candidates here, Zazzi Beats and Lee Gil, the
little gentleman who plays Gary Puddles. I did laugh at
Gary Puddles to the those two lefts. Yeah, they that
gave legitimately great scenes in the two or three minutes
there on the screen, so I guess you could argue them.
I just this movie is so heavy on Gaga and
(24:54):
Joaquin Phoenix that it's like hard to pick out Plemonade moments.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Because I would go, I think Zazzi Beats because I
think her giving the testimony, I thought that was I
thought her performance there was great. I think the lead
Gill scene is my favorite scene.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Though. Yeah, he did a wonderful job at seeming or
looking like helpless and scared. He did a great job
in that scene. This isn't you. He had a great,
great line at the end when he was like, you're
the only one that didn't make fun of me, and
it actually broke Joker's character.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Max credit Union. I have nothing to give to anybody
because I'm not Mac, But Mac, who are you giving
credit to?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
It's gotta go to Lady Gaga. I mean, obviously, Jaki
Foenx got all his flowers from the first one, and
he's very good in this, maybe not as good as
he was in the first one, because it was so
unexpected in the first one, So it takes a little
bit of the shine off Gaga's awesomeness. She's tremendous. Every
time we see her, She's awesome. She's so talented. It's
(25:55):
just incredible to me that he is nearly every bit
as good as he was in the first and she's
pretty amazing in this. And this movie still sucks.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Pan It's ten city Excite bike Mania. Did anything get
you going besides the sex scene?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Nothing? Not one single scene. Nothing.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
For those of you tarty to the Mac and Goop party,
we rate everything on a forty hot dog rating system,
and Mac before we give our hot dog scores, I
see that you have notes.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah. The first one, which again came out in twenty nineteen,
Goo and I reviewed, Goo gave it thirty three hot dogs.
He praised Joaquin Phoenix and the pace of that movie.
And I think you were arguing it could maybe even
go up if you were more okay, if you talked
yourself into more of the comf but stuff. I gave
it thirty and I basically said that it was right
(26:43):
at the equator if it wasn't for Joaquin. Joaquin probably
gave it a good five or six dogs. He really
saved that movie. I think in retrospect, i'd probably have
it down that four or five dogs that I credited
to Joaquin. It's just it's not a movie I'm ever
gonna watch again. I don't think it's a bad movie.
I just get upset with it because it's like wasted
(27:04):
potential and they dip their toes into DC stuff without
actually giving it to That's a whole thing. Go listen
to that episode if you'd like.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I also think that the first movie is interesting, like
there's certain things that you're trying to pick up on,
you actually.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Care in the and to your point, better paced, Yes,
there's more action going on. There's just more shit happening.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
In this movie. I just found myself not caring about
anything midway through.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I just didn't give a shit for sure. And part
of that is them muddying up Arthur Fleck's character so
you don't care really what happens to him. And as
good as Gaga is, you don't really care what happens
to her either.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Let's be positive at first, Mac Okay, sure, sure, sure.
The movie takes a big swing with its musical numbers,
really putting it on these two characters to carry it.
Give it credit there. It deserves credit for taking a swing.
You know, I always gonna make contact, but you do
gotta get the bat off your.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Feels like a check swing, though, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Also there are some lovely shots in this movie. The
cinematography is great, and I really enjoyed some of the
establishing visuals of the songs when you're going into the
fantastical elements of his mind when they're because in the movie,
when they sing good, it's real. When they don't, it's
I'm sorry when they sing good opposite, But that's kind
(28:23):
of it's kind of obvious right off the bat. So
not to spoil anything there. And I'm not saying here
that Phoenix wasn't good in this movie. It's just that
he played it as expected. He was great again. But
I thought that Gaga was fantastic in this and they
didn't give her enough time. They didn't give her a
character enough time on the screen. Like I said earlier,
(28:44):
I wouldn't have minded if most of the first half
of the movie was her and how she like. I'm
not saying do mad love, but kind of do mad love?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You could have very easily done something like Across the
Spider Verse does, where you open with a heavy Gwen thing.
You could have opened with a heavy Lee Quinzel thing
and established her better other than her just being in
a room singing a song.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well. No, what I'm saying though, is like, show us
why she is so obsessed with this guy, I guess,
so tell us what drove her to being here, Like
what attracted her to this person, to this idea of
what this person was. But they didn't really do that.
My biggest note here, Mac is that if I wanted
to see a man eat an orange, I'd have taken
(29:30):
the orange eating class.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Sure, chocolate orange, just a regular.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Orange, all right, just eat the damn orange. I am
here for a joker movie. Oh yeah, yeah, give me
joker stuff. And not to compare certain things, but right now,
there is a fantastic television show on called Penguin. It's real,
it's gritty, but they're keeping to what the character actually is.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, yeah, I'll let you finish. I got a whole thing,
I got a whole spielgu Yeah, that is maybe the
downfall of this whole Joker.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Because once again I don't want to be a poopy
pants fanboy.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Sure, but.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Like the thing is called Joker, make him the Joker.
And once again, in one scene we have a confident,
swagged out Arthur who really gets in the Joker mindset.
Give me more of that. I was hoping at that
point he would just transform into the Joker and then
we have we at least have from there on out,
(30:33):
but we don't. We have a sweet scene where he's
a cartoon just doing these weird voices and weird actions
and weird over exaggerations and that's what the Joker is,
and they didn't even want to bother doing that. There's
also a second good court scene too with Zazzi beats.
I didn't enjoy that as well. I wouldn't be against
(30:55):
in this movie if there were one to two big
show staring musical numbers, but to have fifteen songs in
there where most of them feel like they're just stopping
the movie dead in their tracks, like the pacin in
this just sucked. It was so bad. But if you
(31:16):
had one or two that could have been really effective.
The movie also is pretty much two locations. That's it.
That's all they had. They spend all their money on
the music, and they're like, fuck, we have the prison
in the courthouse. That's it.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
They had to buy the rights to this nineteen sixty
four song.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Arkham sucks in this. Pretty much anything Batman wise sucks
in this. It's super generic. It's small, there's no one
in there. There's like this ten. It's like Tim Burton's
Gotham and Batman returns fifteen people live there.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah. I actually made a mental note in that prison,
which seems like a rather large facility. They just have
the same four guards working around the clock.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Twenty four to seven, three sixty five. And like I
said earlier, it feels like an ip that has hit
public domain and someone just said, fuck it, I'm making
a joker movie and you can't stop me.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's a good summation of what this movie is.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I'm below twenty hot dogs. I think God I did
a good job. I think Phoenix is a good job,
and I like Swings, but this is so boring. I
got no enjoyment out of it. I hated my theater
experience and I was given free popcorn.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Fifteen Oh love that, love that for you, and I
like it because so what was your expectation. Did you
think this was gonna be good when you sat down
in your chair the other day?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
No, but also during the movie, like I said, when
he hits that point of being joker and I saw
what could have been.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, makes you more upset.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I was like, well, we could have gotten more of this,
or we could have gotten a little backstory to Harley
or sorry Lee without it just being spoken about off screen.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
This sucked. Harvey quinzil Gou piggybacking, you know, off of
what she said there. I don't know what would possess
the makers of this movie to think that this was
what anyone wanted at all. Like they didn't. They refused,
outright refused to commit to anything in this movie. They
(33:22):
just dabbled in a bunch of things and a bunch
of themes and a bunch of characters and a bunch
of Batman light stuff and ended up doing none of
it justice. To your point, just sort of bothered you
that it was even in there. And that was true
about the first one as well. But it's an even
larger problem in here, especially as a sequel, just feels
half asked, no real plan going in, Let's throw everything
(33:43):
out there and just see how it mixes up. The
pacing of this movie is horrendous. It has this odd
chapter like feel that like Wes Anderson movies have this,
but he can sometimes make that work. This movie feels
like half a season of a television show, like in
the middle seasons, where they're like, you're really far away
(34:03):
from something good that's gonna happen. It just it just
it wasn't good. And I felt like one of the
best aspects of the first movie is that you never
truly knew what was real or what was a fever dream.
And this movie has absolutely none of that, none of
it at all. There's no mystery to it it.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Also, it's like getting an inception too where they tell
you that the top fell down, because the final seven
to ten minutes of the first Joker movie you're trying
to figure out is this a dream?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Right? What is real here?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
And that they pretty much yeah, and they give it
to you.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I know, it's dumb. And the whole thing, especially coming
off the first one, is that Arthur Fleck is an
unreliable narrator narrator, and we're seeing the story through his POV,
and that is at least something it's more interesting. This
movie is like third person fly on the Wall, and
you knew it was real and what wasn't instantly there
(34:57):
was no intrigue at all whatsoever. And to the point
I was making earlier, like he almost commits a character
assassination here, and this is a bit of a spoiler.
We'll talk about it in a couple of minutes. His
closing argument in that court case like undid everything that
the character built through two movies. I thought that was
fucking dumb.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
But then it's set the world on fire.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Uh. The ending of this movie is fucking bullshit, not
only with the Arthur stuff, but the tease we may
or may not get. And that leads me again to
this larger point that I had made in the first
episode about the first movie. Everything attached, everything and anything
attached to the comics in Batman only hurts this franchise
(35:40):
because they can't do it the way they want to,
or won't do it the way that it should be done.
They just allude to it. They tease stuff because it's
not really a comic movie. It's adjacent, and it just
fails both audiences in my opinion. Now to the acting
to some good things. The leads were tremendous. Lady Gaga
was unbelievable. Walking Phoenix was unbelievable. But again that almost
(36:03):
makes me more upset. It feels wasted. I can't remember.
I cannot recall a movie that wasted as good of
a performances from its two leads, not just one, as
this movie does. It's fascinating that they could be this
good and the movie can be this bad. As much
as I didn't care for the first movie, I think
it just Garners too much praise. I do forgive those
(36:25):
that really liked that movie, because Waking Phoenix is very,
very good. This movie, however, I wish didn't exist. All
the potential that we saw, and again we didn't want it,
But then when they casted Gaga as the co lead,
all that potential that went running through our heads, all
the possibilities, we were like ooh, But it ended up
just being a two year long cockni.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That is a quote for the fucking DVD cover This movie.
I wish didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
We just have complete blue balls from all the promise,
the acting just couldn't save it. I have an eighteen
Hot Dogs Goo. It's in the conversation for work movie
of the year that's not named, Madam Webb. I think
the only movies I have underneath it besides Web are
Roadhouse and The Beekeeper. So this is this is conversation
for one of the worst movies of the year, and
I can only imagine because I think.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
It.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I'm not gonna say I don't want to use the
word offended, but like to have performances this good and
the movie be so underwhelming and just I guess I'm
mad about it. I like so much wasted time and
effort in potential and it just went for nothing, absolutely nothing.
So I think people will be talking about this movie
(37:38):
for a long time about wasted potential, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I Mean, all that I can think of now is,
after you've given me your whole spiel and we've talked
about this now for forty minutes, is that we shouldn't
have seen Joaquin Phoenix the first hour and a half
of this movie.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
It's not a bad way to be.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
The first ninety minutes doesn't add anything to his character.
He doesn't give us anything new, or they don't give
us anything knew with this character, acting wise, personality wise,
he regresses a little bit to like the point of
I wish we'd just got all gaga. We don't see
him in the asylum at all, and the first time
that we see him is in the courthouse.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, all right, let's get to the spoilers so we
can talk about some of the few spoilers in this movie.
Spilers's spoilers, spoiler, spoiler spoilers. So to that point, gu
I really really liked This is the thing I liked
most about the movie. Maybe the only thing I liked
about this movie is that they flipped the script between
Lee and Arthur. Yeah, Harley Quinn's the maniputive one that
(38:36):
is being chased around by Joker instead of vice versa,
and I really liked the idea of that not in
this universe, but in a future universe with the same
two characters, like legit no exaggeration. That might be the
only thing I liked about this movie other than the
acting of I.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Did like the reveal that her background is pretty much
the background of the character.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Right, but I like that she's string him along and
she's and she's not this mad love he is, you
know what I mean that that's a nice dynamic that
could play out in a better situation. So I really
really like that. However, the final twenty minutes of this
movie is it ruins almost both characters that they had
(39:17):
set up the whole movie, her like getting up and
just leaving because he ruined this mystique doesn't make any
sense because she's faking it. She's faking all of that.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Okay, but it's all so different than say a mad
love where she is, she's a perfectly competent she's a psychologist.
Where like she just she gets you know, swooned by him.
She gets in this he I don't know how to
say it, but like he.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Gets sworn by her.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
No, but he's also not really capable of certain things
in life, and it's and it's him really, you know,
reaching up.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's predatory, is what it is.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
It is, So it's a it's a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It is a little different, that's that's for sure. So
not only like the whole her getting up and leaving
after his closing argument. The closing argument is a thing
I think that really like unravels whatever this movie may
have been trying to tie up at the end here,
I felt like it made absolutely no sense for them
to go that route, for him to just reveal that
he's like, I don't know, I like to me, even
(40:20):
though the joke and again this is I'm comparing it
to the the iteration of the Joker that I know
that mask exists and sometimes it does break any and
he does break down and is somewhat of a real person.
But for him to just outright throw the Joker moniker away,
to me, made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Because he's only Joker, He's not the Joker.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, well let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, he's he's going to see someone that's visiting him
in prison or that that's probably set up as well
by the cops and the prisoner.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I did think it might be Harvey for a second.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, but he is. He's stabbed to death, banked shank
to death by a fellow who who uh could not
stop laughing, and then cut a little smile into his mouth.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
So you're telling me, Todd Phillips and the people that
made this movie, not only do you not want to
do the Joker origin with your first Joker, you want
to introduce a second Joker that also isn't tied to
Batman and double the fuckery. You want us to be
double as upset with the way you're doing well.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
He does, age wise matchup more with Batman. The second guy,
fuck out of here. I'm back in.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Bruce is like eight in the first one. This guy's
like twenty eight.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
So what I hate about it is that this the
second Joker, is just like, I'm pissed at the guy
that I followed and I liked his ideas. He stabbed
me in the back, so I'm gonna stab him in
the front.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
He didn't do it that good. I didn't like the
way he did it, so now I go be jokers.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
So it's like that AI art that I always saw,
where it was he Ledger's Joker sitting in a chair
and then Joaque Phoenix's Joker with his hand on his
shoulder and says, go get him brother. Finally it's all
come back around.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I get why someone would want to shank our Fleck.
I don't know why someone would then want to carve
their face other than you're being like, this is the
real Joker, you fucking idiots.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
And this gets back into and I'm pretty sure I
said this in the other Joker movie discussion is much
like Michael Myers. I don't need a Joker backstory. I
just need him to show up and cause chaos.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Sure that would work better than either of these two origins.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
We go like, I don't need to know in Rob
Zombie's Halloween movie that Michael was bullied in tortured animals.
Just make him the Boogeyman.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
The final I don't know. Ten twelve minutes of this movie,
we see a car bombing of the courthouse that.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I thought was Harley Quinn. I thought Harley Quinn did it.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
That would have made more sense. I felt like that
was so out of place since it was just a
couple dudes. And then all that really was for them,
all that really ended up being was for them to
get the final scene on the stairs. That felt like
such a waste too. Like this just the movie just
gets worse each minute that passes, and it's by the
end of it you're just impressed at how they did nothing.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
And also I cannot believe that with that explosion you
see Harvey Dent and he's not even two face. There
was an explosion. Bloods that's why everyone calls him three cut.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
He just had some like a couple shards of glass. No,
not even glass. I don't eve think there's windows there.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
You know what it reminded me of is in Hot
Tub Time Machine, where they're waiting for that guy's arm
to fall off the entire movie.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
And they purposefully shoot it. Come out of this haze
and they just paned past him, so you're like, oh,
he's gonna have a fucked up face, and then they
finally focus on him.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
No, just a couple of cuts, a kiddy scratch, a
catwalk by a game up yow.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
That's how we had this movie.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Stakes, did you like this? This is definitely an easter egg?
He meets Lady Gaga in the b Ward. Is that
an Easter egg for Burt Ward?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
It may be.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
It's gotta be right, there's no other example. Yeah, it's
a nod to the first Robin live action Robin.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Oh man, this is I gotta say. You weren't that
negative leading up to this, so it makes me pretty
happy that you really did not like this movie.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Well, I don't want to text too much negativity because
also I didn't want to. I didn't want to warp
your fragile mind before going into your viewing.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
I mean, like, over the last two months, when I've
been shitting on this movie, you you stayed mostly silent
about it.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I wasn't expecting such a boring, boring movie.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
And that's where it's a hard time comparing a bad
movie like this that does nothing to a bad movie
like Madam Webb that does nothing, but in like a
fantastical way.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I love Madam Web, Madam Web. I might like Madam
Webb more than done. Two. If I'm talking about my
favorite movies from the air, I Madam Webb.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
God, let's I'm done talking about this movie. Let's get into.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Sack and Mak Sak could be anything with a joker
fally a dude currently in theaters right now. I say
we rank jokers seven theatrical jokers that we have seen
so far. I think the worst one.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Let me chime in with my note before you get
too wild there. Okay, I think I would make the
argument that only two of them have even been good.
One I'm I'm no, not a lot of people would
agree with me. But the second, the second one you
have in your top four here, Barry Keegan, who we
saw Batman. I did not like what we got out
of him and the Batman, so he's more of a TBD.
(45:50):
But he's definitely not good.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
That's why I have middle of the pack. He's not
at the top.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Well, I would say, so all right, go just go.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
I'm also curious with him. Did he just get into
a terrible car accident and that's the reason why he
can't talk very well and his face is stapled up.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
That's an argument. He looks more like two Face than
two Face does in this movie.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
So at number seven is Jared Leto, who I believe
honest trailer referred to as a mix of Nicholas Cage
and a cat.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
So this one he was not good. I did appreciate
that they went for a different version, yeah, because you
have to remember this is the first one we saw
post Ledger, so they couldn't do that. I give him
credit for trying. It just didn't work.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
The Juaquin Phoenix one, and I only have him so
low here because I don't think he's really the character.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Bad at being Joker, good performance, bad at being Joker.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
At number five is Seesa Romero, who was in Batman
sixty six. He was in that one movie that was
out for a very short amount of time. He had
a very good laugh. He had fun with the character,
and he painted his mustache white.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I can't, especially now as a mustache man. I can't
not see the mustache every time I see him now.
It's very distracting.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Well, he has it. And number four I have Barry
Keyhogan is it Cogan Kagan?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I don't know either.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
He's uh, he's stooping Sabrina Carpenter. So good for him.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
I think he has potential, not because of what we
saw in that scene, because because because im Matt Reeves. Yeah,
that's really all it is. At number three, I love
Jack Nicholson's joker. I love it so much.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Hate it.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I am of a mind to make a moki hate it.
That's one of my favorite lines from any movie ever.
And it was not in the script. He just said it.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
You say that, and you ever danced with devil on
the pill of the pill, whatever the fuck that line is.
You say that often as well.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
I do say that. I say a lot of his lines.
I love his performance. And never rub another man's rubarb.
Another line not in the script, The man who could
just fucking pull out these amazing pieces of dialogue nowhere.
It's great at number two, And you could argue because
(48:03):
I think this is the voice that you think of
when you think of the Joker, and that is Mark
Hamill's Joker mask of the phantasm. He was in the
Killing Joke that was in theaters for a very short
amount of time. I actually don't like his voice over
work in that movie. But he's also in the Arkham
video game series.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
I am stunned you didn't have him number one. Stunned.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
I think that Heath Ledger's Joker just has to be
number one. He is the only one of the bunch
that is not only fantastic with the character, he is
an all time movie character.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
I totally agree with you, and this is not to
take away what Leger did with the character. But when
I think about the Joker, I think more of animated series.
I do too that I do Ledger's Joker as much
as I appreciated that performance. Those are one and two
either way.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Though easily. And then I'm pretty certain that Nicholson, at
least for me, is number three.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I don't know. I might go Phoenix third, just because
I don't like any of the other ones, But in
two years we might be like, Oh, Barry Keagan is
maybe two. I don't know. He might he might be tremendous.
They also might be saving him for the third movie
now too.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Give me your Mount Rushmore of laughs, joker, no joker laughs.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Oh okay, Hammill's number one, Hamil's number one, for sure.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
It might be Saeser Romero number two.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, you might be, because Keegan's was too subdued. Leger
almost didn't do it enough.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
But I also liked how Leger did it where it
sounded like he was fake laughing at people.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's Phoenix's was decent.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
But Phoenix is also a nervous tick. Yeah, it wasn't
that he just found things.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
It was funny, it wasn't the joker. Yeah, I guess
I would go shit. I guess I would go Ledger third.
I do like Caesar Romeros because.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I like Nicholson's too, but it wasn't like really super joking.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
I mean, I guess you could go forth. I don't
even remember Jared Little laughing at all in the movie movies.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Can you think of any other sweet themed Mount Rushmore?
Is that you want to do with these jokers real quick?
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Oh best joker get up ooh like outfit.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, the animated one is a classic, just big zoot suit.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Look.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I do like that. I'm gonna go Ledger number one
because he had all those secret pockets. I love the
inside lining. He'd open his coat. He had like like
Pulley strings, he had bombs everything. Yeah, he had cheese.
It's it's great. We haven't seen Kagan's. I've said his
(50:38):
name different every single time. I don't mind Phoenix's. Actually,
I like the off color of his suit.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
It's solid recognizable.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
If you took the tattoos off of Leto, he doesn't
look bad.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
His again is also a different character the way I
guess Arthur Fleck is, but it's something.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
So Hamill Ledger. Then I would say Phoenix, and maybe
Nicholson because I also like with Nicholson he has that hat.
Any other joker Mountain rushmorees you want to run by,
real quick gadgets, maybe no final schemes, no poisoning water.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
No, that wasn't a joker scheme. I don't think.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Well that was the scarecrow. I do like Nicholson's scheme
of poisoning the makeup. That was a good one. That
might be my favorite one. Actually, that that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
They also had the poisonous balloons.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
He had the poisonous balloons. Poison. The man likes poison,
big poison guy. Although I do love with Leger, all
he had in his pocket was Linton knives, fuck Man.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Ledger's the best, Ledg's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Leder's jokers that that movie is fantastic. God damn it.
This is a very good joker. Folly I Do is terrible.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
It is a very bad movie.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
All right, Mac, where can the people find us?
Speaker 1 (51:56):
You can find us on X and Instagram at Mac
and Goo podcast that is Mac Andpersan Goo Max Shift
seven Goo on every other platform we're oh wait, no,
did I do it backwards?
Speaker 2 (52:07):
I don't know what you said. I wasn't paying attention.
I was making an AX with my arms.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
Every other platform we are Mac, I don't know. We're
on all the podcasts.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
I'm so fucking google us, dude.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
We're on Spotify. More importantly, we're on Apple podcast. Get
on that rate review, subscribe as five stars. If you
do that, we'll get you a free Mac and Goo
T shirt. From the folks over at Watertown sports Where.
Watertown sports Where is.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
On Mount Aubrey Street.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
I even forgot the number thirty four.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
This is our up thirteen hundredth episode.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
You said movie Yeah, thirty thirty odd munt Auburn Street, Watertown, Massachusetts.
Want to tell sports dot comics fort screenprinting and embroidery.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Deepup dot com merch go tell Alexa to play Mac
and Goo movie Club on the iHeartRadio app. What's our
next movie? Uh? Is it? Venom midway through the month.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Comes out in a couple of weeks, right him? Are
they going to run that song back?
Speaker 2 (53:05):
I certainly hope.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
So you see M and m's a granddad now or
I did see that?
Speaker 2 (53:09):
You know what I wish in joke or folly a
do that? Gaga sang the Venom song Venom.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Man, man, I'm trying to look at Yeah. I think uh,
I think venoms. Uh oh, Wolves might be on an
Apple TV it is, so maybe we'll do that, yeah
and then Venom.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
But you're in charge next week, so whatever you want
to do, we might just take a week off. We're
not taking a week off.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
It's a good chance we do.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
We're not taking a week off, you find a friend.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
I don't know if I will.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
You you phone a friend, find out the answer to
your million dollar question, even though you know what. You're
just telling your dad that I want a million dollars. Yeah,
and then do a fucking news dump on your own dude.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Yeah, maybe we'll see.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
But nothing has happened over the last three days. It's
very perfect time for a news dump.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I'll just i'll, I'll talk about this venom.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
I was just saying, Okay, so I'm gonna write out
news down for you right now, open with the Venom song,
and then just do box office and then call it
a day box Office with Joker hitting forty million bucks.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
I might. I might search scour the internets for someone
that liked this movie and have them on.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
If you go to Rotten Tomatoes, there are some, but
all the positive reviews are still like, look, I guess
I liked it, like people just confused. I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yeah, I would be surprised if the audience score ends
up like in the fifties, but that's still forty points
lower than the first one.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
So it's just so funny that this movie was made
to cater to critics and to a film Z the audience. Yeah,
and it's not good.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
They're fucking confused.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah all right, So check us out next week Tuesdays
for Goose Days, I Abuse Kangaroos, I E.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Burton. Please flip the cassette over to side B to
continue the adventure.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Now it's time for girls jumping on trampolines.
Mac.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
I was on the social media app X have.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You heard of it? Oh? I have heard of this.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yeah, And I saw someone posted a comical cartoon, a
comic cartoon strip.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
If you will, sure? Sure?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
The person who tweeted it out was movies are therapy.
At movies our therapy. I don't know who the author
of this is. Maybe they're they're a coward, they're hiding.
I don't know sure, but it was a fella on
a date, little heavy set, curly hair, mustache, and the
and the guy says to the lady, it's a podcast
(00:31):
about me and my buddy discussing movies. But the catches
we also sort of joke around.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'll tell you, Oh, whenever that podcast says, I'm in
on it, I like it. Never heard of one like that.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I was gonna say, it sounds terrible. It sounds horrible.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Usually they just talk about the movies without the joking,
you know, and then it's funny. Today we're talking about
all sorts of joking.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I was gonna say, for us, you know, it's me
and an acquaintance. I wouldn't call us friends.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I don't want to go that far.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Who sort of joke around and sometimes talk about movies.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's maybe better. One Goo three, Yeah, Jos three,
King of Queen MARYL.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Street Entertainment.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm Do and I'm Mac.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And we are the Mac and Goo Program. We bring
you uncontrollable laughter.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah. Today it's just nothing but jokes, jokes, just the
real Joky mcjokerton of a movie. We are talking Joker two,
Joker foality and do it. That's right, uh joker and
I'm assuming French. Those are French words.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Go. The First Joker came out in the year twenty nineteen,
and I would say that it was a smashed success
at the box office.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It was the highest grossing R rated movie of all
time at the time.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yep, and you liked it. I thought it was all right,
but in general pretty well received by both more so
the audience than the critics, but pretty well received over it.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But also I liked it outside of the Batman stuff.
I liked it as an Arthur Fleck Joaquin Phoenix is
putting on a clinic acting wise, It's a really well
shot movie. It's a pretty succinct story, and you get
that amazing pop at the end.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah. I really only didn't mind it because of Joaquin Phoenix,
But that's neither here nor there. We I think even
the people that may have loved that movie, I think
a lot of us might agree. And this is backed
up by what this movie might make this weekend. I
don't think we needed a sequel from that movie. In fact,
a lot of people that really enjoyed it said, I
(02:59):
don't know if Oliver wantet first movie again, never mind
a sequel.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Does Todd Phillips look like someone who has a plan?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Dude? Joke offaly add is projected to open this weekend
with fifty five to sixty million domestically. Uh three weeks ago.
That original projection was over seventy million, and for some perspective,
the first movie opened with almost one hundred million ninety
six million, So there's a good chance that this second
(03:27):
movie makes half of what the first movie did on
opening weekend. Usually that's flipped.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Also, the original forecast for this movie, when they first
forecasted it, it was at one hundred to one hundred
and ten million dollars.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Because you would think it would beat the first one,
And that's right. I don't know. I don't even know
if it's gonna get a half of the first one.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Right, and I believe you and I we made a
bet it was five hundred million. I might lose that bet.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I think you're going to I.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Think I'm gonna lose that bet.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
But this is extremely rare for a movie in this
comic book ish genre to have a follow up to
a pretty well received first movie crumble as hard as
this one's seemingly crumbling. I mean to fuck up the idea.
The marketing of this movie is just it's tremendous that
(04:17):
this might make fifty and the first one almost made
a hunt.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I'll also say this is that, you know, real people,
not idiots like us. I'm seeing so many people have
no idea that this is a musical.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, but it's like kind of a musical, all right.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Todd Phillips, calm down. Todd Phillips gave interviews. He's like,
he's like, well, it's a musical, but it's not. We're
only using music when we when we can't describe it
with words, and it's like, that's what musicals do.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I would say for the common theater goer, they're gonna
think this is very musical. I think for anyone that
actually watches musicals, they'll be like, yeah, it's sort of
a musical.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So you're not appealing to either crowd. One hundred, that's
a hundred, splitting the baby in half and throwing the
the bathwater away.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And and this that's a common theme with everything they
tried to do in this movie, gou This is a
rated R crime drama, musical, and thriller, and I would
argue they didn't do any of those things.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Well everything in it. No, I'll I'll say this, Let's
let's be kind at first. Okay, this is a very
well shot movie. I think there's some really nice cinematography
in this movie.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
It is a well shot and well acted movie.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well acted as well. The two leads do a very
good job doing what they're.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Asked what they're asked.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, but you can tell that there was never a
sequel planned. And then when they made was it one
point five billion dollars something like that and they had
to make a sequel, they went into it being like, Oh,
wouldn't this be cool if we did this? And do
you think at any point when they were making this movie,
(05:57):
like say halfway through, they're like, oh, this really isn't working,
but we've already shot so much of the movie, we
have to keep going with this musical thing.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I think that Todd Phillips opened up his fridge of
concepts and just dumped everything onto the plate, onto the
bowl and tried to mix it together. And once it
was like starting to seem kind of weird, they're like, oh,
we'll go get Gaga because she's weird and she's multifaceted,
she could do all sorts of stuff. And I think
he thought Gaga could save this movie, or not even
(06:29):
save it, because I think in his head, but if
that sting, he's successful, no, and he's thinking, we need.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Then do more Gaga. Make it a Gaga the first
You could have done this movie where you don't even
see Arthur Fleck until the trial. Don't even show him
in prison, just show Gaga leading up to there. I'm
being dead serious. That would have been better. I also,
so I texted you about this, is that I thought
that almost every musical number in this movie brought the
(06:55):
entire thing to a screeching halt. But I also think
that if you take the music out of it, this
is one of the most boring paint drying on the
wall stories, that it might have more momentum, but there's
nothing interesting about it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, severe pacing issue, that's for sure. And speaking of
the pace and the run time, one hundred and thirty
eight minutes, so two hours and eighteen minutes, it felt
like three.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I checked my phone. First off, I was eating popcorn.
I was having a fucking ball. I was eating so
much fucking popcorn. Yeah, And at one point I'm like, like,
what where are we in the run time? Because I
feel like nothing has happened, but also this has felt
so long. And then I checked my phone. I'm like,
there's another hour.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Wh Yeah. When I realized there was an hour left,
I'm like, what is this going to be an hour
of a court case? It was? It was.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I don't want to tip my hand here, but this
might have been my least enjoyable movie experience, maybe since
hell Boy.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
So I'm having a hard time. Yeah, I understand that
I was like more annoyed and disappointed in this with
this movie more than I was like mad as I
get at other movies, because I knew going in I
probably wasn't gonna like it, And that is huge if
you if you're coming off the first Joker loving it
and expecting to love this, you were gonna be fucking pissed.
(08:23):
You're gonna be mad. And I think if you go
into this seeing it as like a big Gaga stand,
you'll be like, Oh, she was really good, but they
didn't fucking use her enough, so you're probably gonna be mad. Also,
everyone like they just middled everything here on all sorts
of concepts and and I have a hard time figuring
out an avenue for someone to like this movie.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I also want to say this, though, is that Jaque
and Phoenix is such a good actor that like he
does everything up there and you just kind of forget
that he's in the movie. But he does a fantastic
job with what he's believable.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah goo uh. No audio and score revealed yet. On
roddy Te's the critics are at thirty nine through one
hundred and twenty three reviews. For some context, the first
one was sixty nine percent nice from the critics, which
admittedly isn't great, but for this movie and what you
were expecting, I would say that was obviously a thumbs up.
(09:19):
Eighty nine percent from the audience. The audience loved that
movie for the most.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It's a good movie.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
On Metacritic A forty eight through thirty six reviews. What
does that mean the first one out of fifty nine,
So essentially, the critics on the first one I think
gave it a soft thumbs up. This one, this one's
jumped down probably two tiers, and I wouldn't say a
hard thumbs down. And that is in large pot because
the two leads are really good. But I think the
(09:44):
critics are going to have a hard time trying to
understand what this movie was trying to do. And not
critics everyone, everyone's gonna have a hard time figuring out
what the goal of this movie was.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
You know, as odd as after this movie ended, several
strangers I had never met these people like approached me
and started talking to me about the movie. Like at
different points. It wasn't like a like a big crowd
of people. Like after the movie someone came up to
me and they're like, man, I really wish I saw
that in IMAX, And I'm like, why what about this that?
(10:13):
I mean, maybe some of the musical numbers.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Was he whistlin snapping, snapping, and he.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Was uh swinging his stopwatch around. And then on the
way out, I was walking with my wife I'm talking
with my wife and someone just talked to us for
like fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I think that probably just speaks to how fucking confused
people are.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I guess that they had to talk to strangers about it.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Goose, Speaking of the people that made this movie, this
is written by Scott Silver and Todd Phillips. Scott Silver
you would know from two of my favorite movies, Grown
Up Here eight Mile in the Fighter. He also did
The Finest Hours and was one of the writers on
the First Joker. Todd Phillips of course known pretty well.
If you don't know Todd Phillips is he was the
writer and director on Road Trip, Old School Starsky and
(10:59):
hutch One a Goose favor, It's a Good One, a
writer on Borat actually made the movie School for Scoundrels.
That was you love that movie Due Date. He did
Dude Date and then uh directed all three Hangover movies,
but wrote the second and third ones, the noticeably worst ones,
and of course also got war Dogs in there. Wow.
I've heard people love that movie, and I've also heard
(11:20):
people not like that movie, which I guess maybe speaks
to what Todd Phillips does. And then, of course the
first Joker movie you, I think if you can now
look through Todd Phillips' catalog over the last twenty five years,
I think we can agree he should steer away from.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
The drama Jeta, away from sequels.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, that as well.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I would. More than anything else, I feel.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Like Joker was a shot in the dark. He happened
to get it right, and I don't stick to your
two thousands comedies that don't play anymore. I don't know
if he knows how to do anything else.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It just seems like he stumbled upon two smash hits.
The Hangover obviously, was the fucking bella de ball for
a very long time. Well, old school yes, but the
Hangover more than old school, sure, and then Joker School No.
But I'm saying money wise and even culturally yes, the
Hangover was the most dominant comedy for a very long time.
(12:13):
There was years after that where every comedy movie commercial
would say the best movie since the Hangover. They still
do that. But the Hangover two not great, Hangover three
even worse. This reminds me of both The Hangover two
and The Hangover three, where the Hangover two is almost
(12:34):
a carbon copy of the first one. This is kind
of like that, but then also hear me out, hear
me out. He gets back into like the wimpy Arthur stuff.
But the Hangover three is it doesn't make any sense.
None of it makes any sense. And a lot of
that is playing here.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, so you heard it here first. Joker two is
much like the Hangover two and three.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's like if the Hangover two and three had a baby,
it's jokerfale I do.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Goo. Synopsis of Joker Folia ad Arthur Fleck is institutionalized
at Arkham, awaiting trial for his crimes as Joker. While
struggling with his dual identity, Arthur not only stumbles upon
true love, but also finds the music that's always been
inside him.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
May I stop you there?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
That's a terrible synopsis.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I hate that they used Arkham because that had fifteen
people there.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
They also called it Arkham State Hospital, which I didn't
care for.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, and if if you're gonna use Arkham, slip in
some easter eggs.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yep, call it asylum. Make it less like low security
than it was. A murderer shouldn't have that much free
reign in a prison. That's that was insane. Go this
movie of course stars Joaquin Phoenix as Arthur Fleck. Lady
Gagay here credited, and this pisses me off. Lee Quinzel,
not Harley Quinzel, Lee Quinn.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Also, if you read any of the synopsis, it just says.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Lee yep, because they don't buy it, because.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
They don't want it to be a Joker Harley Quinn movie.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
They let me ask you this once again, and this
was my major point in the first one. Why are
you dropping Batman, easter eggs and character names like Lee
Quinzel and Harvey Dent, but you call your guy Arthur Flack.
Brendan Gleeson is in here as Jackie Sullivan, which he
almost feels overcasted. You didn't need Brendan Gleeson in that role.
(14:27):
He does a good job. Catherine Keener almost the same thing,
like almost doesn't get enough screen time as Mary and
Stewart that is Arthur's attorney, Zazzi Beats pops back up
here briefly as Sophie Dumont, Steve Coogan as Patty Myers,
and then they casted this young strapping lad Harry Lottie
as assistant Da Harvey Dent go and that's I guess
(14:48):
all you would really need to know from the cast.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
My first note here is let's just say for this
movie they buttered me up.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah. So I was unable to attend the official screen
any of this movie, which they only put on one
day before it was releasing in theaters, which is always
a tell the movie's not gonna be that good. And
what did they have to spruce up the crowd for
the movie?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Goo, They gave me a free popcorn and a soda.
So when I gave this forty hot dogs, you know
the reason why.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Me personally, I ate launched too close to the movie
so didn't have an appetite for popcorn. That pissed me off.
I went in with a double sour attitude. I did
get some Swedish fish for the first time in a while.
I did enjoy those, but I wanted popcorn. I didn't
have an appetite for it though. Secondary Yes, I was
your stupid fucking burrito.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So I was sitting there like a pagan shit one
hand burrito, one hand popcorn.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Did you mix the two? No? No, no no.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
But that took up roughly ninety minutes of my runtime,
so it really helped me to.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Summarize my thoughts on this movie, Goo, Before you get
to a couple more of your notes, here is why,
what the fuck? Why make this movie?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And my noint money?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, but it's gonna lose money. It's probably gonna lose money.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
No, but after the first one, this is worth the
risk obviously. So you know what this feels like? This
feels like this like watching the Group No, No, I've
already made that one. I'm gonna I need to make
some more things for clips. This feels like like wb DC,
like the Joker was in public domain and just a
(16:26):
random weirdo took the character and made this with with
no oversight by its parent company. Yes, yeah, isn't that
what it felt like? That?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You're not far off with that that that's the closest.
That's the closest like, uh justification for how this movie
somehow got made. And some of that maybe is because
Gun has taken over DC and this was already in development.
They're like, all right, whatever doing it.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It's also ELSEWHERELD too, it isn't a part of his
main timeline. Yeah, but I could also because Gun is
he said this a couple of times now, is that
he wants his directors to be the creative forces behind
their movies. So maybe he doesn't want to give too
many notes on this stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
No, I think he doesn't give a fuck about this
because the people know this has no connection to what
he's doing.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
But he also said The Flash was the best comic
book movie ever made. Are we starting to get concerned?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Noticeably absent James Gunn's comments about this movie.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Also noticed there was no Flash in this movie. Yeah, unfortunately,
what unless we just didn't see him?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeh da something there?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You're on? Just zip zat badango?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Should we get to the nanagonock? Let me know.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Let me a couple quick things.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
First.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Number one, you like music.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Right, I would consider myself a fan of music.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, you're saying, I'm not sure anymore.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I gotta say too. One of the sub genres at
high MDB for this movie was jukebox musical.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Joke box musical unless you got.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
The jukebox out of nineteen sixty seven, This is not
a jukebox.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
We're all juke boxes are from We found a jukebox
and we played the music from the jukebox.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
This this had what maybe one song you would know
that they sung in this fucking movie.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Come on Get Happy.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, there was. If I had to hurt hear any
characters sing the Saints are Marching in again, Oh my god,
I was gonna lose my fucking mind.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I do like how after the movie I saw it
with my wife and I'm like, what do you think?
And she's like, I like the old songs? Like all right?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Uh so again, if you haven't listened to that Companion
Gaga album, it has that old timey field way. It
feels more like the stuff she did with Tony Bennett
than her other stuff. And I don't cheek the cheek.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yes, Also, I really wanna. I don't want to come
across in this podcast as a poopy pants fanboy.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
No, I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I don't think you feel like I am, though.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
No, no, no, no, first movie, first movie. That's that's on
the table. I don't think that's on the table for
this one.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Because even THHR in one of their write ups, is like,
this movie's not made for the fanboys. I agree, But
my question now is who was it made for?
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah? Right, answer me that riddle me that THHR, you
fuck sticks.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
This movie is fucking boring.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
I listen.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's my note.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
My three word review on x dot com was boring, pointless,
and waste, and I think that also accurately sums up
what we saw.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Also, is this a spoiler? The least sexiest sex scene
of all time?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Most relatable, though I was trying to count. I think
I think it was like eleven pumps, eleven pumps, and
he was done.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
The same as max iced coffee.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Come on, I drink it out nearly black. God, damn it.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I want to get into the naunagon. Yeah, all right,
fun factor. There was one scene that I think I
loved in this movie which showed potential for what this
entire movie could have been. It's a courtroom scene where
the Joker puts on this persona, this like arrogant, over
(20:25):
the top Looney Tunes like persona. And I'm like, if
you had this the entire movie based off of the
events of the first one, and this is what he
has evolved into, that's what the character is. This is
fun and this would have been something.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I remember laughing once. I don't remember what I laughed at.
Legitimate laugh. I got I got one one laugh, not
a hearty laugh, but a nice little lull I think
they were going for some fun factor with the cartoon
at the beginning. I hate it didn't work. Did not
work for me. I don't like that's the type of shit.
So if you were gonna use, like if they had
(21:01):
spotted that cartoon for out to sort of give you
a look into the Arthur's head, that would have worked.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
If they had done that. So if they had mixed
up the music and that, Yeah, after you see that
Arthur is in a music class and they're constantly watching
Looney Tunes pepe le pew, I think I might have
liked that a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You would have it would have been some black noir
vibes like it could have worked. They just didn't do that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Borometer. This is a very generic prison movie and then
a very generic courtroom movie.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I think I think the full final ninety minutes are
incredibly boring.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I kind of are you saying the first two hours
or not boring? No, First of all, how long is
this movie?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I don't know how if you know how to do math.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
It felt like a lifetime watching.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I think the first forty minutes you're okay with the
playfulness to Tit for Tat with Gaga and Arthur, and
then once you get like in the second act and beyond,
it's all downhill Halloween.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Will this movie wane over time? And I'm trying to
think if because of how oddball it is with its
scattershot musical numbers, and like, some of the musical numbers
are pretty good in this I will say this, there
is one with Gaga is it the Mountain Song where
she's she's really letting the piano.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Until she's genuinely singing live. Yes, during the filming on
some scenes, which is impressive. It's just it didn't help
the movie.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I'm just trying to think, like, will I like, is
this a memorable movie?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Not for I. I'll tell you I haven't rewatched the
first one. And if there was any way for me
to describe watching a movie less than I did the
first one, it would be this movie. I'm going to
try to watch this less than I watched the first one.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Satisfactor. How satisfactory was this movie? And the question that
I have does this add to the first movie?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
I don't know where other than like Gaga acting well,
I don't know what you would say it possibly added
at all?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It didn't even really develop Arthur any further. No, it
actually it regrassed him for a while.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
It might e hit his character up too much because
you're you're sort of like you're wanting to play him
as a sympathetic character, being that he's the titular character,
and this made it too muddied. I felt like, like,
I like, to me, this was you know, Joker in
the deck. This has turned the toilet for me. I
(23:33):
sinks in the not call.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Halloween. We just did that one a quator water aqua
water World, There we go. Is this movie better or
worse than the nineteen ninety five classic water World? It sinks? Yep,
sure it does so when it does that, Mac, my
next question is does this reach the depths of hell Boy?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
No? Because the acting is legitimately good in this. The
acting is a trocious in hell Boy.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Hell Boy also looks like vomit. Yeah, and looks like diarrhea.
I will say once again, I don't like the story
in this.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
It looks good at times.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Plemonade, Mac, when life gives you plemins, you make plemonade.
And may I ask you, because I have two people
in mind that might have made plemonade, who do you
believe makes Plemonade.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I had a hard time coming up with anyone. Honestly,
your two candidates here, Zazzi Beats and Lee Gil, the
little gentleman who plays Gary Puddles. I did laugh at
Gary Puddles to the those two lefts. Yeah, they that
gave legitimately great scenes in the two or three minutes
there on the screen, so I guess you could argue them.
I just this movie is so heavy on Gaga and
(24:54):
Joaquin Phoenix that it's like hard to pick out Plemonade moments.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Because I would go, I think Zazzi Beats because I
think her giving the testimony, I thought that was I
thought her performance there was great. I think the lead
Gill scene is my favorite scene.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Though. Yeah, he did a wonderful job at seeming or
looking like helpless and scared. He did a great job
in that scene. This isn't you. He had a great,
great line at the end when he was like, you're
the only one that didn't make fun of me, and
it actually broke Joker's character.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Max credit Union. I have nothing to give to anybody
because I'm not Mac, But Mac, who are you giving
credit to?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
It's gotta go to Lady Gaga. I mean, obviously, Jaki
Foenx got all his flowers from the first one, and
he's very good in this, maybe not as good as
he was in the first one, because it was so
unexpected in the first one, So it takes a little
bit of the shine off Gaga's awesomeness. She's tremendous. Every
time we see her, She's awesome. She's so talented. It's
(25:55):
just incredible to me that he is nearly every bit
as good as he was in the first and she's
pretty amazing in this. And this movie still sucks.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Pan It's ten city Excite bike Mania. Did anything get
you going besides the sex scene?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Nothing? Not one single scene. Nothing.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
For those of you tarty to the Mac and Goop party,
we rate everything on a forty hot dog rating system,
and Mac before we give our hot dog scores, I
see that you have notes.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah. The first one, which again came out in twenty nineteen,
Goo and I reviewed, Goo gave it thirty three hot dogs.
He praised Joaquin Phoenix and the pace of that movie.
And I think you were arguing it could maybe even
go up if you were more okay, if you talked
yourself into more of the comf but stuff. I gave
it thirty and I basically said that it was right
(26:43):
at the equator if it wasn't for Joaquin. Joaquin probably
gave it a good five or six dogs. He really
saved that movie. I think in retrospect, i'd probably have
it down that four or five dogs that I credited
to Joaquin. It's just it's not a movie I'm ever
gonna watch again. I don't think it's a bad movie.
I just get upset with it because it's like wasted
(27:04):
potential and they dip their toes into DC stuff without
actually giving it to That's a whole thing. Go listen
to that episode if you'd like.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I also think that the first movie is interesting, like
there's certain things that you're trying to pick up on,
you actually.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Care in the and to your point, better paced, Yes,
there's more action going on. There's just more shit happening.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
In this movie. I just found myself not caring about
anything midway through.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I just didn't give a shit for sure. And part
of that is them muddying up Arthur Fleck's character so
you don't care really what happens to him. And as
good as Gaga is, you don't really care what happens
to her either.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Let's be positive at first, Mac Okay, sure, sure, sure.
The movie takes a big swing with its musical numbers,
really putting it on these two characters to carry it.
Give it credit there. It deserves credit for taking a swing.
You know, I always gonna make contact, but you do
gotta get the bat off your.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Feels like a check swing, though, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Also there are some lovely shots in this movie. The
cinematography is great, and I really enjoyed some of the
establishing visuals of the songs when you're going into the
fantastical elements of his mind when they're because in the movie,
when they sing good, it's real. When they don't, it's
I'm sorry when they sing good opposite, But that's kind
(28:23):
of it's kind of obvious right off the bat. So
not to spoil anything there. And I'm not saying here
that Phoenix wasn't good in this movie. It's just that
he played it as expected. He was great again. But
I thought that Gaga was fantastic in this and they
didn't give her enough time. They didn't give her a
character enough time on the screen. Like I said earlier,
(28:44):
I wouldn't have minded if most of the first half
of the movie was her and how she like. I'm
not saying do mad love, but kind of do mad love?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You could have very easily done something like Across the
Spider Verse does, where you open with a heavy Gwen thing.
You could have opened with a heavy Lee Quinzel thing
and established her better other than her just being in
a room singing a song.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well. No, what I'm saying though, is like, show us
why she is so obsessed with this guy, I guess,
so tell us what drove her to being here, Like
what attracted her to this person, to this idea of
what this person was. But they didn't really do that.
My biggest note here, Mac is that if I wanted
to see a man eat an orange, I'd have taken
(29:30):
the orange eating class.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Sure, chocolate orange, just a regular.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Orange, all right, just eat the damn orange. I am
here for a joker movie. Oh yeah, yeah, give me
joker stuff. And not to compare certain things, but right now,
there is a fantastic television show on called Penguin. It's real,
it's gritty, but they're keeping to what the character actually is.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, yeah, I'll let you finish. I got a whole thing,
I got a whole spielgu Yeah, that is maybe the
downfall of this whole Joker.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Because once again I don't want to be a poopy
pants fanboy.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Sure, but.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Like the thing is called Joker, make him the Joker.
And once again, in one scene we have a confident,
swagged out Arthur who really gets in the Joker mindset.
Give me more of that. I was hoping at that
point he would just transform into the Joker and then
we have we at least have from there on out,
(30:33):
but we don't. We have a sweet scene where he's
a cartoon just doing these weird voices and weird actions
and weird over exaggerations and that's what the Joker is,
and they didn't even want to bother doing that. There's
also a second good court scene too with Zazzi beats.
I didn't enjoy that as well. I wouldn't be against
(30:55):
in this movie if there were one to two big
show staring musical numbers, but to have fifteen songs in
there where most of them feel like they're just stopping
the movie dead in their tracks, like the pacin in
this just sucked. It was so bad. But if you
(31:16):
had one or two that could have been really effective.
The movie also is pretty much two locations. That's it.
That's all they had. They spend all their money on
the music, and they're like, fuck, we have the prison
in the courthouse. That's it.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
They had to buy the rights to this nineteen sixty
four song.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Arkham sucks in this. Pretty much anything Batman wise sucks
in this. It's super generic. It's small, there's no one
in there. There's like this ten. It's like Tim Burton's
Gotham and Batman returns fifteen people live there.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah. I actually made a mental note in that prison,
which seems like a rather large facility. They just have
the same four guards working around the clock.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Twenty four to seven, three sixty five. And like I
said earlier, it feels like an ip that has hit
public domain and someone just said, fuck it, I'm making
a joker movie and you can't stop me.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's a good summation of what this movie is.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I'm below twenty hot dogs. I think God I did
a good job. I think Phoenix is a good job,
and I like Swings, but this is so boring. I
got no enjoyment out of it. I hated my theater
experience and I was given free popcorn.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Fifteen Oh love that, love that for you, and I
like it because so what was your expectation. Did you
think this was gonna be good when you sat down
in your chair the other day?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
No, but also during the movie, like I said, when
he hits that point of being joker and I saw
what could have been.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, makes you more upset.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I was like, well, we could have gotten more of this,
or we could have gotten a little backstory to Harley
or sorry Lee without it just being spoken about off screen.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
This sucked. Harvey quinzil Gou piggybacking, you know, off of
what she said there. I don't know what would possess
the makers of this movie to think that this was
what anyone wanted at all. Like they didn't. They refused,
outright refused to commit to anything in this movie. They
(33:22):
just dabbled in a bunch of things and a bunch
of themes and a bunch of characters and a bunch
of Batman light stuff and ended up doing none of
it justice. To your point, just sort of bothered you
that it was even in there. And that was true
about the first one as well. But it's an even
larger problem in here, especially as a sequel, just feels
half asked, no real plan going in, Let's throw everything
(33:43):
out there and just see how it mixes up. The
pacing of this movie is horrendous. It has this odd
chapter like feel that like Wes Anderson movies have this,
but he can sometimes make that work. This movie feels
like half a season of a television show, like in
the middle seasons, where they're like, you're really far away
(34:03):
from something good that's gonna happen. It just it just
it wasn't good. And I felt like one of the
best aspects of the first movie is that you never
truly knew what was real or what was a fever dream.
And this movie has absolutely none of that, none of
it at all. There's no mystery to it it.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Also, it's like getting an inception too where they tell
you that the top fell down, because the final seven
to ten minutes of the first Joker movie you're trying
to figure out is this a dream?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Right? What is real here?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
And that they pretty much yeah, and they give it
to you.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I know, it's dumb. And the whole thing, especially coming
off the first one, is that Arthur Fleck is an
unreliable narrator narrator, and we're seeing the story through his POV,
and that is at least something it's more interesting. This
movie is like third person fly on the Wall, and
you knew it was real and what wasn't instantly there
(34:57):
was no intrigue at all whatsoever. And to the point
I was making earlier, like he almost commits a character
assassination here, and this is a bit of a spoiler.
We'll talk about it in a couple of minutes. His
closing argument in that court case like undid everything that
the character built through two movies. I thought that was
fucking dumb.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
But then it's set the world on fire.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Uh. The ending of this movie is fucking bullshit, not
only with the Arthur stuff, but the tease we may
or may not get. And that leads me again to
this larger point that I had made in the first
episode about the first movie. Everything attached, everything and anything
attached to the comics in Batman only hurts this franchise
(35:40):
because they can't do it the way they want to,
or won't do it the way that it should be done.
They just allude to it. They tease stuff because it's
not really a comic movie. It's adjacent, and it just
fails both audiences in my opinion. Now to the acting
to some good things. The leads were tremendous. Lady Gaga
was unbelievable. Walking Phoenix was unbelievable. But again that almost
(36:03):
makes me more upset. It feels wasted. I can't remember.
I cannot recall a movie that wasted as good of
a performances from its two leads, not just one, as
this movie does. It's fascinating that they could be this
good and the movie can be this bad. As much
as I didn't care for the first movie, I think
it just Garners too much praise. I do forgive those
(36:25):
that really liked that movie, because Waking Phoenix is very,
very good. This movie, however, I wish didn't exist. All
the potential that we saw, and again we didn't want it,
But then when they casted Gaga as the co lead,
all that potential that went running through our heads, all
the possibilities, we were like ooh, But it ended up
just being a two year long cockni.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That is a quote for the fucking DVD cover This movie.
I wish didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
We just have complete blue balls from all the promise,
the acting just couldn't save it. I have an eighteen
Hot Dogs Goo. It's in the conversation for work movie
of the year that's not named, Madam Webb. I think
the only movies I have underneath it besides Web are
Roadhouse and The Beekeeper. So this is this is conversation
for one of the worst movies of the year, and
I can only imagine because I think.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
It.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I'm not gonna say I don't want to use the
word offended, but like to have performances this good and
the movie be so underwhelming and just I guess I'm
mad about it. I like so much wasted time and
effort in potential and it just went for nothing, absolutely nothing.
So I think people will be talking about this movie
(37:38):
for a long time about wasted potential, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I Mean, all that I can think of now is,
after you've given me your whole spiel and we've talked
about this now for forty minutes, is that we shouldn't
have seen Joaquin Phoenix the first hour and a half
of this movie.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
It's not a bad way to be.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
The first ninety minutes doesn't add anything to his character.
He doesn't give us anything new, or they don't give
us anything knew with this character, acting wise, personality wise,
he regresses a little bit to like the point of
I wish we'd just got all gaga. We don't see
him in the asylum at all, and the first time
that we see him is in the courthouse.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, all right, let's get to the spoilers so we
can talk about some of the few spoilers in this movie.
Spilers's spoilers, spoiler, spoiler spoilers. So to that point, gu
I really really liked This is the thing I liked
most about the movie. Maybe the only thing I liked
about this movie is that they flipped the script between
Lee and Arthur. Yeah, Harley Quinn's the maniputive one that
(38:36):
is being chased around by Joker instead of vice versa,
and I really liked the idea of that not in
this universe, but in a future universe with the same
two characters, like legit no exaggeration. That might be the
only thing I liked about this movie other than the
acting of I.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Did like the reveal that her background is pretty much
the background of the character.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Right, but I like that she's string him along and
she's and she's not this mad love he is, you
know what I mean that that's a nice dynamic that
could play out in a better situation. So I really
really like that. However, the final twenty minutes of this
movie is it ruins almost both characters that they had
(39:17):
set up the whole movie, her like getting up and
just leaving because he ruined this mystique doesn't make any
sense because she's faking it. She's faking all of that.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Okay, but it's all so different than say a mad
love where she is, she's a perfectly competent she's a psychologist.
Where like she just she gets you know, swooned by him.
She gets in this he I don't know how to
say it, but like he.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Gets sworn by her.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
No, but he's also not really capable of certain things
in life, and it's and it's him really, you know,
reaching up.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's predatory, is what it is.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
It is, So it's a it's a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It is a little different, that's that's for sure. So
not only like the whole her getting up and leaving
after his closing argument. The closing argument is a thing
I think that really like unravels whatever this movie may
have been trying to tie up at the end here,
I felt like it made absolutely no sense for them
to go that route, for him to just reveal that
he's like, I don't know, I like to me, even
(40:20):
though the joke and again this is I'm comparing it
to the the iteration of the Joker that I know
that mask exists and sometimes it does break any and
he does break down and is somewhat of a real person.
But for him to just outright throw the Joker moniker away,
to me, made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Because he's only Joker, He's not the Joker.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, well let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, he's he's going to see someone that's visiting him
in prison or that that's probably set up as well
by the cops and the prisoner.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I did think it might be Harvey for a second.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, but he is. He's stabbed to death, banked shank
to death by a fellow who who uh could not
stop laughing, and then cut a little smile into his mouth.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
So you're telling me, Todd Phillips and the people that
made this movie, not only do you not want to
do the Joker origin with your first Joker, you want
to introduce a second Joker that also isn't tied to
Batman and double the fuckery. You want us to be
double as upset with the way you're doing well.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
He does, age wise matchup more with Batman. The second guy,
fuck out of here. I'm back in.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Bruce is like eight in the first one. This guy's
like twenty eight.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
So what I hate about it is that this the
second Joker, is just like, I'm pissed at the guy
that I followed and I liked his ideas. He stabbed
me in the back, so I'm gonna stab him in
the front.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
He didn't do it that good. I didn't like the
way he did it, so now I go be jokers.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
So it's like that AI art that I always saw,
where it was he Ledger's Joker sitting in a chair
and then Joaque Phoenix's Joker with his hand on his
shoulder and says, go get him brother. Finally it's all
come back around.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I get why someone would want to shank our Fleck.
I don't know why someone would then want to carve
their face other than you're being like, this is the
real Joker, you fucking idiots.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
And this gets back into and I'm pretty sure I
said this in the other Joker movie discussion is much
like Michael Myers. I don't need a Joker backstory. I
just need him to show up and cause chaos.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Sure that would work better than either of these two origins.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
We go like, I don't need to know in Rob
Zombie's Halloween movie that Michael was bullied in tortured animals.
Just make him the Boogeyman.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
The final I don't know. Ten twelve minutes of this movie,
we see a car bombing of the courthouse that.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I thought was Harley Quinn. I thought Harley Quinn did it.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
That would have made more sense. I felt like that
was so out of place since it was just a
couple dudes. And then all that really was for them,
all that really ended up being was for them to
get the final scene on the stairs. That felt like
such a waste too. Like this just the movie just
gets worse each minute that passes, and it's by the
end of it you're just impressed at how they did nothing.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
And also I cannot believe that with that explosion you
see Harvey Dent and he's not even two face. There
was an explosion. Bloods that's why everyone calls him three cut.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
He just had some like a couple shards of glass. No,
not even glass. I don't eve think there's windows there.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
You know what it reminded me of is in Hot
Tub Time Machine, where they're waiting for that guy's arm
to fall off the entire movie.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
And they purposefully shoot it. Come out of this haze
and they just paned past him, so you're like, oh,
he's gonna have a fucked up face, and then they
finally focus on him.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
No, just a couple of cuts, a kiddy scratch, a
catwalk by a game up yow.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
That's how we had this movie.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Stakes, did you like this? This is definitely an easter egg?
He meets Lady Gaga in the b Ward. Is that
an Easter egg for Burt Ward?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
It may be.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
It's gotta be right, there's no other example. Yeah, it's
a nod to the first Robin live action Robin.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Oh man, this is I gotta say. You weren't that
negative leading up to this, so it makes me pretty
happy that you really did not like this movie.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Well, I don't want to text too much negativity because
also I didn't want to. I didn't want to warp
your fragile mind before going into your viewing.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
I mean, like, over the last two months, when I've
been shitting on this movie, you you stayed mostly silent
about it.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I wasn't expecting such a boring, boring movie.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
And that's where it's a hard time comparing a bad
movie like this that does nothing to a bad movie
like Madam Webb that does nothing, but in like a
fantastical way.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I love Madam Web, Madam Web. I might like Madam
Webb more than done. Two. If I'm talking about my
favorite movies from the air, I Madam Webb.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
God, let's I'm done talking about this movie. Let's get into.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Sack and Mak Sak could be anything with a joker
fally a dude currently in theaters right now. I say
we rank jokers seven theatrical jokers that we have seen
so far. I think the worst one.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Let me chime in with my note before you get
too wild there. Okay, I think I would make the
argument that only two of them have even been good.
One I'm I'm no, not a lot of people would
agree with me. But the second, the second one you
have in your top four here, Barry Keegan, who we
saw Batman. I did not like what we got out
of him and the Batman, so he's more of a TBD.
(45:50):
But he's definitely not good.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
That's why I have middle of the pack. He's not
at the top.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Well, I would say, so all right, go just go.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
I'm also curious with him. Did he just get into
a terrible car accident and that's the reason why he
can't talk very well and his face is stapled up.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
That's an argument. He looks more like two Face than
two Face does in this movie.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
So at number seven is Jared Leto, who I believe
honest trailer referred to as a mix of Nicholas Cage
and a cat.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
So this one he was not good. I did appreciate
that they went for a different version, yeah, because you
have to remember this is the first one we saw
post Ledger, so they couldn't do that. I give him
credit for trying. It just didn't work.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
The Juaquin Phoenix one, and I only have him so
low here because I don't think he's really the character.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Bad at being Joker, good performance, bad at being Joker.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
At number five is Seesa Romero, who was in Batman
sixty six. He was in that one movie that was
out for a very short amount of time. He had
a very good laugh. He had fun with the character,
and he painted his mustache white.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I can't, especially now as a mustache man. I can't
not see the mustache every time I see him now.
It's very distracting.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Well, he has it. And number four I have Barry
Keyhogan is it Cogan Kagan?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I don't know either.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
He's uh, he's stooping Sabrina Carpenter. So good for him.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
I think he has potential, not because of what we
saw in that scene, because because because im Matt Reeves. Yeah,
that's really all it is. At number three, I love
Jack Nicholson's joker. I love it so much.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Hate it.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I am of a mind to make a moki hate it.
That's one of my favorite lines from any movie ever.
And it was not in the script. He just said it.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
You say that, and you ever danced with devil on
the pill of the pill, whatever the fuck that line is.
You say that often as well.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
I do say that. I say a lot of his lines.
I love his performance. And never rub another man's rubarb.
Another line not in the script, The man who could
just fucking pull out these amazing pieces of dialogue nowhere.
It's great at number two, And you could argue because
(48:03):
I think this is the voice that you think of
when you think of the Joker, and that is Mark
Hamill's Joker mask of the phantasm. He was in the
Killing Joke that was in theaters for a very short
amount of time. I actually don't like his voice over
work in that movie. But he's also in the Arkham
video game series.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
I am stunned you didn't have him number one. Stunned.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
I think that Heath Ledger's Joker just has to be
number one. He is the only one of the bunch
that is not only fantastic with the character, he is
an all time movie character.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
I totally agree with you, and this is not to
take away what Leger did with the character. But when
I think about the Joker, I think more of animated series.
I do too that I do Ledger's Joker as much
as I appreciated that performance. Those are one and two
either way.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Though easily. And then I'm pretty certain that Nicholson, at
least for me, is number three.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I don't know. I might go Phoenix third, just because
I don't like any of the other ones, But in
two years we might be like, Oh, Barry Keagan is
maybe two. I don't know. He might he might be tremendous.
They also might be saving him for the third movie
now too.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Give me your Mount Rushmore of laughs, joker, no joker laughs.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Oh okay, Hammill's number one, Hamil's number one, for sure.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
It might be Saeser Romero number two.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, you might be, because Keegan's was too subdued. Leger
almost didn't do it enough.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
But I also liked how Leger did it where it
sounded like he was fake laughing at people.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's Phoenix's was decent.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
But Phoenix is also a nervous tick. Yeah, it wasn't
that he just found things.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
It was funny, it wasn't the joker. Yeah, I guess
I would go shit. I guess I would go Ledger third.
I do like Caesar Romeros because.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I like Nicholson's too, but it wasn't like really super joking.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
I mean, I guess you could go forth. I don't
even remember Jared Little laughing at all in the movie movies.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Can you think of any other sweet themed Mount Rushmore?
Is that you want to do with these jokers real quick?
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Oh best joker get up ooh like outfit.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, the animated one is a classic, just big zoot suit.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Look.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I do like that. I'm gonna go Ledger number one
because he had all those secret pockets. I love the
inside lining. He'd open his coat. He had like like
Pulley strings, he had bombs everything. Yeah, he had cheese.
It's it's great. We haven't seen Kagan's. I've said his
(50:38):
name different every single time. I don't mind Phoenix's. Actually,
I like the off color of his suit.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
It's solid recognizable.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
If you took the tattoos off of Leto, he doesn't
look bad.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
His again is also a different character the way I
guess Arthur Fleck is, but it's something.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
So Hamill Ledger. Then I would say Phoenix, and maybe
Nicholson because I also like with Nicholson he has that hat.
Any other joker Mountain rushmorees you want to run by,
real quick gadgets, maybe no final schemes, no poisoning water.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
No, that wasn't a joker scheme. I don't think.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Well that was the scarecrow. I do like Nicholson's scheme
of poisoning the makeup. That was a good one. That
might be my favorite one. Actually, that that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
They also had the poisonous balloons.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
He had the poisonous balloons. Poison. The man likes poison,
big poison guy. Although I do love with Leger, all
he had in his pocket was Linton knives, fuck Man.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Ledger's the best, Ledg's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Leder's jokers that that movie is fantastic. God damn it.
This is a very good joker. Folly I Do is terrible.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
It is a very bad movie.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
All right, Mac, where can the people find us?
Speaker 1 (51:56):
You can find us on X and Instagram at Mac
and Goo podcast that is Mac Andpersan Goo Max Shift
seven Goo on every other platform we're oh wait, no,
did I do it backwards?
Speaker 2 (52:07):
I don't know what you said. I wasn't paying attention.
I was making an AX with my arms.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
Every other platform we are Mac, I don't know. We're
on all the podcasts.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
I'm so fucking google us, dude.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
We're on Spotify. More importantly, we're on Apple podcast. Get
on that rate review, subscribe as five stars. If you
do that, we'll get you a free Mac and Goo
T shirt. From the folks over at Watertown sports Where.
Watertown sports Where is.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
On Mount Aubrey Street.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
I even forgot the number thirty four.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
This is our up thirteen hundredth episode.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
You said movie Yeah, thirty thirty odd munt Auburn Street, Watertown, Massachusetts.
Want to tell sports dot comics fort screenprinting and embroidery.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Deepup dot com merch go tell Alexa to play Mac
and Goo movie Club on the iHeartRadio app. What's our
next movie? Uh? Is it? Venom midway through the month.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Comes out in a couple of weeks, right him? Are
they going to run that song back?
Speaker 2 (53:05):
I certainly hope.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
So you see M and m's a granddad now or
I did see that?
Speaker 2 (53:09):
You know what I wish in joke or folly a
do that? Gaga sang the Venom song Venom.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Man, man, I'm trying to look at Yeah. I think uh,
I think venoms. Uh oh, Wolves might be on an
Apple TV it is, so maybe we'll do that, yeah
and then Venom.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
But you're in charge next week, so whatever you want
to do, we might just take a week off. We're
not taking a week off.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
It's a good chance we do.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
We're not taking a week off, you find a friend.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
I don't know if I will.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
You you phone a friend, find out the answer to
your million dollar question, even though you know what. You're
just telling your dad that I want a million dollars. Yeah,
and then do a fucking news dump on your own dude.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Yeah, maybe we'll see.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
But nothing has happened over the last three days. It's
very perfect time for a news dump.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I'll just i'll, I'll talk about this venom.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
I was just saying, Okay, so I'm gonna write out
news down for you right now, open with the Venom song,
and then just do box office and then call it
a day box Office with Joker hitting forty million bucks.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
I might. I might search scour the internets for someone
that liked this movie and have them on.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
If you go to Rotten Tomatoes, there are some, but
all the positive reviews are still like, look, I guess
I liked it, like people just confused. I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yeah, I would be surprised if the audience score ends
up like in the fifties, but that's still forty points
lower than the first one.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
So it's just so funny that this movie was made
to cater to critics and to a film Z the audience. Yeah,
and it's not good.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
They're fucking confused.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah all right, So check us out next week Tuesdays
for Goose Days, I Abuse Kangaroos, I E.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Burton. Please flip the cassette over to side B to
continue the adventure.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Now it's time for girls jumping on trampolines.
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