November 10, 2025 • 39 mins
We began our program with our special annual College Admissions Panel! We were joined by the Deans of Admission at Harvard University, William Fitzsimmons and at Boston College, Grant Gosselin. Both Deans answered questions about getting into college, the SATs, paying tuition, the application process, what colleges are looking for in prospective students, and so much more! If you are a student, parent or guardian looking for insight into how the college application process works, this was your opportunity to speak directly to the Deans of Admission at two of the country’s most prestigious academic institutions!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night's Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well, good evening everyone, Thanks very much, Madison.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
This is what I consider to be one of our
most important shows of the year. For nineteen years, every fall,
generally in November, sometimes a little into early December, depending
upon people's schedules. We have been blessed by the participation
of Dean Bill Fitzsimmons, William Fitzimmons of Harvard University.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Just he's been with us every nineteen years. Bill Fitzimmons,
welcome back to Night Side.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
It's hard to imagine and I'm only eighteen.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We'll get you some remedial math tutoring over at Harvard
on that one, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
You started off with a guy named John Mahoney from
Boston College, and John retired, how dare he retire on us?
And in his stead for the last several years, and
I think it's about five or six, is the Dean
of Admissions and Financial Aid, the identical title that Bill
(01:13):
Fitzimmons has had for so many years. Dean Goslin. That
title was announced today. Congratulations on such a promotion.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Well, thanks very much, Dan, it's really good to be
with you. Bill, It's good to be with you again.
This evening is also.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Well, you know same here and congratulations. You started as
an undergraduate at BC and I did great.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Well, it's really great to be back in this role,
so I'm grateful to be here with you this evening.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Of course, both of you started as undergraduates at your
respective institution, so a lot of history here and I
do hope that we can get as many young people.
We've mentioned this prominently. I think it's one of the
most important shows that we've done over the years, this
annual college admissions panel. And we have been blessed again
(02:11):
by Dean Fitzsimmons being with us for nineteen years and
now Dean Grant Goslin of Boston College. They both now
share the same title of Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid,
so both of them are very competent on those issues,
which really are pretty much what wraps up most parents
are thinking about. And let's start it off. We'll go
(02:34):
in in alphabetical order. This is not a seniority issue,
but we'll start with a couple of questions for Dean
Fitzsimmons and for Dean Goslin and what has changed, Bill Fitzsimmons,
in the landscape of college admissions from let us say,
I'll just pick a number nineteen years ago. Has it
(02:54):
gotten tougher, has it gotten easier, more competitive, less competitive?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
What's where has this process gone?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yeah, there are loads of changes, and you know, I
think one of the really great things that's happened over
the past nineteen years is that financial aid has become
even more generous. I mean, in our place, we've made
a couple of very recent changes, so now it's free
families whose incomes are under one hundred thousand dollars a
(03:24):
year and on only. This is about twenty five percent
of our students now, which is a big change. And
you know, one of the great things if you're one
of these kids, and I would have been one of them,
and I'm a first generation student as well, and that's
about twenty percent of our students today. But if you're
(03:44):
one of these lucky people with a totally free education,
you also are going to get a two thousand dollars
startup grant in August, and of your first year you
get a thousand that or a thousand at midyear, and
then you get what we call a launch grant of
two thousand dollars at the beginning of junior year so
(04:05):
that you can go off and travel and take job interviews,
look at graduate schools and so on, do all the
things that you need to do to launch yourself on
a career. So the other thing is it's now free
tuition for those who are incomes two hundred thousand dollars
and less, and that covers a good chunk of the
(04:26):
American population. Around eighty five percent of the American population,
you know, would certainly be covered by that. And the
other thing we're trying to get up the point across
is that there are plenty of families now who earn
two fifty three hundred thousand, three hundred and fifty thousand
(04:46):
dollars a year who by the time you look at
what they're spending on tuition and living expenses, and let's
say they've got three or four kids, and maybe they're
taking care of family, you know, an elderly family member,
or have other expenses, they can be sitting there more
or less broke at three hundred thousand dollars a year, So,
(05:10):
you know, so that's the other pieces we're trying to
remind people that almost no matter where you are on
the income distribution you're going to you're going to be
in very good shape in terms of being able to
afford Harvard. And none of the people, it's over fifty
five percent of our students right now are are on
(05:31):
need based financial aid at Harvard and they are not
required to take out loans or are they are required
to work over the summer. So it's a that's a
really really big difference. And I think that's that kind
of thing. It's not just at Harvard that there are
these great financial aid programs, but it also means that
(05:52):
I think more people are looking at places like us
and they're getting beyond this misconception really that you can't
afford to go to a place like Harvard or Boston College.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
So under a family that is making under one hundred
thousand dollars, it's it's what you call the full boat
tuition bedroom and board, and under two hundred thousand, the
tuition is gratis, but there's some room and board obligations.
Did I do I understand? I just try to break
that down a little simply.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Here is that that's right, and though you could, let's
say you're making two hundred to two fifty, and you
have unusual expenses, or you've got multiple kids in college
and of that kind of thing. In those situations, you
could get way more than just the tuition paid for. Okay,
So that's you know, this is a very generous set
(06:48):
of financial aid opportunities.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And let me let me just real quickly.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Grant Goslin, the dean of Admission and Financial Aid at
Boston College. Boston College is a fabulous institution. Are there
help is the help I should say for family families
and students who are a little bit more strapped than
(07:15):
once they're accepted. It's your admissions also basically blind as
to need. You're not saying, well, we can't accept his
kid because he can't pay as much.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Correct, that's correct. Yeah, So there are only about two
dozen private universities in the United States that practice two
policies simultaneously. The first is what you just referenced, practicing
need blind admission, meaning when we evaluate an applicant, we
are not looking to see whether they've applied for aid,
(07:47):
and if they have, we're certainly not looking at those
financial aid documents. We're admitting students based on the quality
of their application their merit within our pool, both Harvard
and Boston College, you know, both subscribed need blind admission,
but we're also then meeting the full demonstrated financial need
of the students that are admitted to our institutions. We're
(08:09):
really looking at what their families can afford to contribute
and really trying to help them meet the difference. And
we award a budget of about one hundred and ninety
million dollars a year in undergraduate need based financial aid
at Boston College. Many of our students will receive packages
atout loans. We have really just so many resources available.
(08:31):
I think oftentimes private universities you look at a sticker
price that might be quite high, and I think some
families will rule out institutions like Boston College or Harvard,
and I think that's a big mistake. Just as Bill
was saying a minute ago, our institutions a really well
resourced to provide the financial aid that families need to
(08:55):
be able to accept our offers, and we're really proud
of the work that we're doing in those areas. Is
so absolutely we would certainly encourage students to take a
close look, even if cost scenes burdensome. There are net
price calculators on our websites where students can go and
do a little bit of research to figure out if
(09:17):
they might qualify for aid and what that package might
look like. And those net price calculators come with a
high level of accuracy, about a ninety percent accuracy rate
in most families. So it really does, I think, provide
not only the great financial aid, but the transparency upfront
in terms of how families will be able to afford
(09:39):
our institutions.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Great opening segment because it does combine obviously the schools
and the financial resources, which in this day and age,
everyone almost has to take that into consideration in some
form of fashion. But you can consider it less at BC,
at Harvard and at some of the other marquee institutions
(10:04):
academic institutions around the country. When we get back and
again part of this program is to one get as
many phone calls as possible from parents, grandparents, but also
from students six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty,
six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There's a variety of topics.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I can ask one hundred questions everything dealing with student life.
You know, the courses that are available successive graduates. All
of that, we can we can talk about all of that,
but the most important questions of the questions that listeners
might have.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
If you're a grandparent or a parent, and.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
You're going to be the person who's going to be
dealing with the cost or at least part of the cost,
maybe all of the costs, Feel free if you're a student,
whether you're a freshman, sophomore, junior, and for that matter,
a senior whose application is sitting on the desk of
one of these great institutions. We love to hear from
students to be really honest with you. Over the years,
(11:02):
we've heard from many and some of them have been
very successful. So feel free six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one
ten thirty. Also, the importance of this program is for
families who are dealing this process for the first time,
because it can be overwhelming. And I don't care when
(11:25):
you went to college, if you went to college or
didn't go to college, it still has overwhelming because even
if you went to college twenty twenty five years ago
and now you're dealing with the fas financial forms, everything
is on the table. And for students SATs. How important
are they? Essays, letters of recommendation, of endorsement, whatever you
(11:50):
want to call it. Again, the only question that is
a dumb question is the question you don't have the
courage to ask.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I learned that in law school. So please question was
always on the final examle of the midterm, the one
you didn't ask in class.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
So take advantage of this opportunity. This is an extremely
busy time of year for both of these deans, Dean
Bill fitz Simmons of Harvard and Dean Grant Goscelin of
Boston College, and they have taken time tonight to answer
your questions. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I think
this is a critically important program for many of you
(12:26):
out there.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Take advantage of the opportunity. Back on Night Side, right
after a couple of brief messages.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
With me doctor Dean Grant Goslin of Boston College and
Dean Bill Fitzsimmons of Harvard.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I want to start just a quick question here with
both of you.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
We've got to have a five minutes before the break
at the bottom of the hour, and I do want
to get to questions from from callers. But from your
experience in recent years, what part of the college applications
that you see are students not taking as serious as
as seriously as they should. Obviously they either have to take,
(13:13):
you know, if they want the SAT or the ACT exams,
and we can get into the differences there.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Some schools require them, some schools don't. But when you
look at the applications overall, what sort of a tip
would you give.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I'll start with Grant Goslin. What areas of the application,
because the application is multifaceted, are not as strong as
they should be generally?
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Well, you know, I think at our institutions, and I
don't want to speak for Bill at Harvard, but certainly
at Boston College, I would imagine it's the same. At Harvard,
our students are very well prepared and they do take
the application process quite seriously. And you know, I think
they are working long before the deadlines arrive in helping
to prepare their applications for the institutions that they're considering.
(14:03):
You know, I always talk to students at around this time,
particularly seniors in high school, and I remind them that
most of their application has already been fulfilled, right, that
they've already taken the coursework that will prepare them well
for university studies. They've met people who have probably already
written their recommendations for them, They've been involved in clubs
(14:26):
and organizations, and really the only thing that is left
to work on is their writing statements, and most institutions
will require at least one personal statement through the common application.
Many institutions will also ask for supplemental essay prompts, and
I think those are probably the area that I would
(14:46):
encourage students to focus in on as closely as they can.
I think the supplemental essay prompts that many institutions offer
are often very much tied to the institution's mission, their values,
their ideals, and they are a real platform for students
to tell us what's important to them, why they align
(15:07):
with our institution's missions. You know, of three thousand colleges
that they could apply to, why is it that our
institutions showed up on their short list of colleges and universities?
And I do think it provides them with a real
opportunity to really be in the driver's seat of this
process and to set a narrative that will allow us
(15:27):
to better understand who they are and how they might
contribute to our communities.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Well, if it's Simmons with the applicants applications that you
have seen over the years, is there an area where
students could could get that edge if they made their
let us a recommendation or is it again with the
personal story. I suspect you're going to say that personal
story because I know that's so important to you.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Now that's true. I do think Grant covered it well
though I think this generation makes things seriously there. They
follow the rules, you know, not to you know, sort
of make a huge generalization. And so I don't think
there are obvious weaknesses. But one of the things that
(16:14):
we we want people to be happy at Harvard, we
have a we're very lucky, you have a ninety seven
ninety eight percent graduation rate. And one of the things
we ask people to do is to tell us, tell
us three things that you'd want to tell your roommate
about you and what kind of roommate you'd be. And
(16:37):
because we're you know, the whole idea is we're trying
to get people who will make one another better in
the rooming groups and on the teams and the dining
halls and so on. I think the other thing related
to that is that it's very easy for students to
forget what they do to help around the home. I mean,
(16:57):
some students have atonishing amounts of things that they do
to help. Whether it's taking care of younger siblings. I
did that, for example, and even had some others from
the neighborhood, but also you know, preparing meals.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Work.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
You know, work is noble, as we would say. I
mean one of the things. We lived across the street
from our gas station and our mom and pop store.
We all worked in it. And you know, I think
the kinds of things that people do, whether they're working
in their family's gas station or whether they're you know,
(17:37):
sort of working. Some of them work amazing numbers of
hours a week to help the family balance the budget.
But it's it's it's I think people sometimes tend to
forget those things that aren't listed as sort of conventional things.
You know, I'm ahead of the key club, or I'm
ahead of the student council, whatever. It's it's you the
(17:59):
person and what you actually do to make people around
you better at twenty four hours a day.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think that's a great synopsis for people to take
into consideration because I know your story, and I know
and i've you know, you've repeated a couple of times
over the years here that you actually stayed back one grade.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
And I think that's an inspirational story because it says,
to hey, someone who stays background not only is able
to apply and be admitted to Harvard, but also to
end up spending a career at that university helping others.
That's a pretty remarkable story. And I don't mean to
force you to tell it a ken, but I just
(18:43):
wanted to. I just wanted to say that it would
give a lot of hope to you know, young men
or young women or boys or girls whatever age who
might have having trouble academically that if they take a
step back sometimes and applying, things.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Will work out.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
And yeah, no, I'm happy to the fact is I'm
an expert on the ninth grade because I did a good.
Way to think about it, I played a little too
much hockey and did not play not pay as much
attention to academics. I did okay, but not terrifically well,
so I said, look, I'm going to try it. As
(19:21):
lawyers would say, you lawyers a different venue. So I
was lucky enough to get into Archershipulliums in Brain Free.
It totally changed my life. It gave me a whole
other set of opportunities to do it right. And in fact,
I'm still very very close to the school. We had
(19:45):
a terrific class and we've had reunions almost every five
or ten years, and we get together every year. Talk
about an institution changing your life. So I think it's
not a bad idea to think some people take it
gap year, you know, before going to college. You know,
it's this is not a race with your peers. This
(20:08):
is a you should be trying to make the most
of your talents, you know, whatever they are, and wherever
that goes. And it might lead to the military, it
might lead to a skilled trade position, it could lead
to any number of things that would lead to a
good life. But don't don't be afraid to step back
(20:30):
and do a mid course correction. Shall we say at any.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Point, well, I appreciate you on that Stow. You're the
second Archpaship Williams Goaltender the other being Steve Baker who
played at Union after Archie Bills. And they produce some
produced some really fine goaltenders and fine hockey players out
of that institution. And you and Steve Baker are of
tops in my book. That's that's for sure. Anyway, I
(20:58):
got to take a break. We got a news break
coming up here again. I'll give you the numbers one
more time. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty,
six one seven nine three one ten thirty six one
seven nine three one ten thirty and triple eight nine
to nine ten thirty. Don't mean to overwhelm you. Want
to give you some choices. We have a lot to cover.
(21:18):
We haven't even scratched the surface. But it's the questions
that are important now, the question that is in your mind,
that is for sure. When I get back, I want
to ask one quick question of what, at what age
should students' kids or their parents be helping them to
think about at least make them understand that there is
(21:40):
academics after high school for certain people. For some people,
some people after high school want to be done with academics.
That's okay too. Some of those people might eventually circle
back and apply later on to either of both of
these institutions, different paths to get you to the same place.
We're back one right after the news break, Stay with
(22:01):
us Bill fitz Simmons of Harvard, Grant Goslin and Boston College,
the deans of admission and financial aid at those two
great institutions.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Night side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Wan to come back here to the question, I sort
of suggest that I was going to ask it, how
soon should parents or should students actually start to think
about college if the parents think that that might be
a path that their child might be interested in. Bill
fitz Simmons, let me start with you on this one, if.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
I could, you know, I think it honestly depends on
the particular child, as it were. I mean, there are
you know, one could argue that it is not a
bad idea to start thinking somewhat early in high school
obviously about what curriculum path you want to take through
(23:02):
math or science or whatever. So that's one piece. You
want to make sure you get yourself lined up for
the kinds of courses that you would need to take
for college. But those are the same things that would
make you, you know, a good person for the military
or anything else. The preparing you making yourself better academically.
(23:23):
The other thing you got to be careful about, however,
I think, is not to put too much pressure on
the whole thing. And I think that's a whole other
a whole other piece. Sometimes that can be almost I
don't know, it can really turn out to be something
that can be a turnoff for students, you know, to
(23:46):
have too much pressure. But I think the idea of
being able to see a college and see different kinds
of colleges and envision yourself, say at a small school
in the country or let's say, you know, larger university
in a city, that kind of thing, and also not
be focused on defining success as getting into one of
(24:10):
two or three or four institutions when there are hundreds
and hundreds of great places that might be a great match.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, you have often talked about that, and I fully
understand that great acelin what year do most parents or
students come by for a tour of how soon should
that be done or should it be put off until
they're really kind of whittled down that DC might be
(24:39):
the school that they're most interested in.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
To be located in a part of the country with
an incredible number of just premier institutions, both public and
private institutions here and the Commonwealth, and so I think
we have the luxury of having quite a few visitors
to campus each year. We welcome about seventy thousand visitors
through the admission office doors each year, and so we
(25:07):
see a range in terms of when families begin this process.
I would say that historically, junior year has been the
real focus in terms of families getting out and visiting
colleges if they're able. We're seeing some of our students
begin that process a bit earlier, so we're seeing more
sophomores begin this process. I wouldn't recommend a full court,
(25:30):
you know, college search tour at sophomore year, but certainly
getting on a campus just to get a sense for
what it feels like and whether a student might picture
themselves there. Sometimes when you're set out as a sophomore,
it can be helpful just to listen to other students
that are on the tour, listen to the questions that
they're asking, because sometimes you know when you start out
(25:53):
that young students don't know where to start, and we
don't want to force students too early into this process.
But if students feel like they're excited about this expiration
process and want to get going in sophomore year, I
don't think that's too early. I do think it's important,
you know, as Bill mentioned a minute ago, you know,
not to put too much pressure on students. I think
(26:15):
it's really important that teenagers can be teenagers and can
experience high school for all of its value and take
time to explore various interests that they have, both academically
and socially. I always get worried when I hear students
or parents too early in the process asking for strategy
(26:37):
on how to get into college, or you know, what
sort of clubs or organizations should I join in order
to earn admission to your institution. And I think students,
really at fifteen sixteen years old, they should be just
trying a lot of new things and exploring interest that
they have. And some of those they might develop into
(26:57):
real areas of expertise, and some of them they might
try for a short time and move on to something else.
But I think there's real value in that exploration process,
and I wouldn't want that to get lost this process too.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I think Bill Fitzimmons just mentioned the idea of different
people in different sets of circumstances. I know that when
my kids were in that application process, there was a
lot of pressure. The kids were doing trips to Costa
Rica or Peru and you know, very exotic adventures when
there were people in the communities in which they lived who,
(27:33):
you know, needed help. And I think Bill Fitzsimmons probably
his reference to what it was like, you know, growing up,
you know, in a family that that had a gas station,
and kids were expected to help help, you know, with
the family as well as with with neighbors. So real
quickly if I can had had the standardized tests, the
(27:57):
ACTS and the SATs, have they made a comeback in
recent years? I know for a while they were voluntary
whether students wanted to take them, And how did the
the standardized tests compare in importance to a to a
solid high school transcript?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Gentlemen, who would take that one for me?
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I'm sorry, we're both we're both being extremely polite here.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
We'll have none of that, Bill Fitzimmons, you take it.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Every piece is important, you know, its own way. But uh,
and I think one of the things that we have
to say there has been a lot of great inflation
in high schools, and so you know, in some respects,
you know, it depends on the high school. That is
not true. It's not true at every high school. But
we have gone back to standardized testing. During COVID, we
(28:55):
had four years you know, where we were test optional
and we've gone back, and I think one of the
things we would say is that that, you know, if
testing is really really high, along with teachers saying great
things and other measures of academic excellence, that that's going
(29:16):
to help you. But you know, there's no there are
no really definite things you can say. It's not a formula.
And I think sometimes people are looking, you know, for
og it's a certain percentage of extracurriculars, or it's a
certain percentage of this or that. You know, if you're
Yo Yoma, the cellist, who we were lucky enough to
(29:38):
get him to come to Harvard, that's that's a you know,
terrific thing, you know for him and classmates. And you know,
that's one thing. So you know, extracurricular activities there are
four hundred and fifty of them at Harvard, believe it
or not, and we are forty two intercollegiate athletic teams,
and so there are a lot of different ways you
(29:59):
can you know, you can fit in and also you know,
be able to uh sort of make yourself, you know,
get to know other students and and uh get around
and about one of the things you might want to do.
Uh just to envision this a little bit is to
go on our websites. Because what we we've all invested
(30:19):
heavily in websites because we know that not everybody can
afford to visit. So we have a great virtual tour
that will take you all over Harvard. And we also
have a great number, a huge number really of student
profiles who will tell you about what they're doing on
a day to day basis. And honestly, if if I
(30:40):
want to figure out exactly what is the latest at Harvard,
I will go on our own website because a lot,
so there's a lot. It'll gives you a sense that
there are there are myriad ways for you to sort
of take yourself through life, take yourself through high school,
get yourself through college. And there's no one single thing
(31:04):
that that as necessary for anybody to do. It's it's
a there's no mold you have to fit.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Into grit your comment on again, acts, SATSU transcripts. They
were all important, obviously, but have our acts and SATs
coming back.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I know that that during COVID there were a lot
of schools did not did not encourage students. They actually
discourage students from taking those those tests, particularly when COVID
was really rampant.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Well, I think when when COVID was happening, the real
challenge was really just access to test centers. To begin with,
testing centers were not places that were open.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
People were being very careful from a health standpoint, and
so it became a real practical issue that if applicants
didn't have exam scores, colleges still needed to find ways
to enroll students, and so most colleges and universities during
that period did move to a test optional plan. A
number of colleges have moved back to requiring them. I
(32:10):
would say most colleges in the United States are still
test optional and provide students the option of submitting or not.
At Boston College, we remain test optional, but we have
moved toward recommending that any student that has taken the
exam submit their scores. We have seen that there is
a pretty significant and pretty noticeable predictive value in test scores,
(32:34):
particularly in a highly selective environment, and so we do
value having those scores as one aspect of the application.
The reason we haven't moved back fully is there are
still real inequities in various parts of the country and
around the world in terms of access to testing. The
state of California, for example, the entire state system became
(32:55):
test blind, and so there are test centers that have
closed throughout the state. And if you're a low income
student in a region that doesn't have access to a
test center, we don't want that student to not be
able to apply to Boston College. And so we're from
an access standpoint, we've maintained that. But the reality is
most of our applicants are able to take scores. Last year,
(33:17):
about seventy five percent of the students that we admitted
did submit scores at the time of applications.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
One follow up question, you said that you encourage students
who take the ACTS or the SAT submit this course.
So if a student takes the ACT or the SAT
and they don't get the score that they want, do
you know that they have chosen not to submit the
scores or is that they may You may request them,
but you don't know whether those who took the scores
(33:43):
and maybe don't want to submit them are holding them back.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Are you aware of that? Is there any way that
you can track that?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Or no?
Speaker 5 (33:52):
There isn't.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
No.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
No. I mean, we're encouraging students again to apply if
they like, but we're also transparent and again, the majority
of our students that have earned admission have submitted scores
in recent years.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Okay, jolenm Malim, takewa quick break here and we'll come back.
We'll wrap the hour and then we will reset and
the first hour of nightside. For the last couple of years,
we do brief interviews, and I think my audience has
been a conditioned to think that no phone calls are available.
Calls are available, folks six, one, seven, two, five, four,
(34:26):
ten thirty six, one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty
Back with the deans of Admission and Financial Aid at
Boston College and Harvard, Grant Gostlin from Boston College and
Bill fitz Simmons from Harvard. This is our nineteenth year
doing this program. Lots of information. We're also going to
talk a little bit about options for people to take
courses or even secure degrees without going through I guess
(34:51):
you'd call the traditional student application process. But again, the
best questions are the questions that are in the forefront
of your mind, either for yourself as a student or
for yourself as a parent or a grandparent. Back on
night Side right after this.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
With me the deans of admission to Boston College and
Harvard University, Boston College, Grand Costlin, Harvard University.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Bill Fitzsimmons. We only got a couple of minutes here.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
So we'll get calls on the other side of the
nine o'clock news. Some one of our listeners just said,
why aren't you taking phone calls? Because I think people
are listening at this point, So let me ask this
is a quick question I have. There are a lot
of students who think it's a great idea to almost
apply to as many schools now that you have the
(35:47):
common app is there an ideal number of schools that
would reflect that a student has focused down on a
few schools that he or she might be interested in,
And how wise is it to end up really use
taking advantage of common application and try to apply to
(36:11):
more than more than a handful.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
For us last time, how about you?
Speaker 5 (36:20):
You know, I think there's a lot of data out
there these days where students can find good information about
college selectivity, and many institute, many high schools will have tools,
whether they're maya learning or score or naveance or various
tools that their high schools will provide to give them
(36:41):
a sense of past applicants to various colleges and universities
and will give them information about the realistic chances at
those institutions. I think a well designed search these days
students are are applying to about eight to ten colleges
on average, and I think a well designed search would
have that list include a range of colleges. Some of
(37:04):
them might be institutions that are super selective and aspirational
for that student. That list should also include some institutions
that the student is very confident in their admissibility, and
then some that could go either way. And I think
a lot of times students put extra pressure on themselves
(37:27):
by only applying to the most selective institutions, and when
that doesn't work out, then panic sets in and families
are really struggling to find a college late in the cycle,
and so I encourage students to be honest about their aspirations,
to have a balanced list, and I think a well
(37:47):
designed search doesn't need to apply to more than ten colleges.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Great answer, Bill fit Simmons only got about thirty seconds.
I assume you would agree with Grant on most of that.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Anything you'd like to add, absolutely. The only thing I
guess i'd say is make sure you have that one college.
You know, we in the old age, we'd call it
a safety school, and it's not just that you'd get in,
is that you would be really happy there. And I
think that's an important piece. I mean, college is a
(38:17):
great they have fun. I like everyone I visit. The
other thing is if you apply to too many places
and you, you know, go beyond what Grant talked about,
you can really get pretty confused by the time you
get into a make up that mind.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
When we get back, there's some other things that you've mentioned.
One of the things I want to talk about is naviance,
and I hope that every high school guidance counselor is
aware of naviance.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
But I also want to make sure parents and students
who are aware of that as well. We have several
other topics to hit to. I so appreciate the time
that both Bill Fitzsimmons and Grant Goslin are providing my
audience tonight, and now I hope some of you will
take advantage of their generosity of time six one seven,
two four ten thirty or six one seven nine three
one ten thirty. We'll be back right after the nine
(39:05):
o'clock newscasts. Gentlemen, you can stretch your legs for a
couple of minutes and get a glass of water back
on night side right after this
It's Night's Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well, good evening everyone, Thanks very much, Madison.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
This is what I consider to be one of our
most important shows of the year. For nineteen years, every fall,
generally in November, sometimes a little into early December, depending
upon people's schedules. We have been blessed by the participation
of Dean Bill Fitzsimmons, William Fitzimmons of Harvard University.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Just he's been with us every nineteen years. Bill Fitzimmons,
welcome back to Night Side.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
It's hard to imagine and I'm only eighteen.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We'll get you some remedial math tutoring over at Harvard
on that one, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
You started off with a guy named John Mahoney from
Boston College, and John retired, how dare he retire on us?
And in his stead for the last several years, and
I think it's about five or six, is the Dean
of Admissions and Financial Aid, the identical title that Bill
(01:13):
Fitzimmons has had for so many years. Dean Goslin. That
title was announced today. Congratulations on such a promotion.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Well, thanks very much, Dan, it's really good to be
with you. Bill, It's good to be with you again.
This evening is also.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Well, you know same here and congratulations. You started as
an undergraduate at BC and I did great.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Well, it's really great to be back in this role,
so I'm grateful to be here with you this evening.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Of course, both of you started as undergraduates at your
respective institution, so a lot of history here and I
do hope that we can get as many young people.
We've mentioned this prominently. I think it's one of the
most important shows that we've done over the years, this
annual college admissions panel. And we have been blessed again
(02:11):
by Dean Fitzsimmons being with us for nineteen years and
now Dean Grant Goslin of Boston College. They both now
share the same title of Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid,
so both of them are very competent on those issues,
which really are pretty much what wraps up most parents
are thinking about. And let's start it off. We'll go
(02:34):
in in alphabetical order. This is not a seniority issue,
but we'll start with a couple of questions for Dean
Fitzsimmons and for Dean Goslin and what has changed, Bill Fitzsimmons,
in the landscape of college admissions from let us say,
I'll just pick a number nineteen years ago. Has it
(02:54):
gotten tougher, has it gotten easier, more competitive, less competitive?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
What's where has this process gone?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yeah, there are loads of changes, and you know, I
think one of the really great things that's happened over
the past nineteen years is that financial aid has become
even more generous. I mean, in our place, we've made
a couple of very recent changes, so now it's free
families whose incomes are under one hundred thousand dollars a
(03:24):
year and on only. This is about twenty five percent
of our students now, which is a big change. And
you know, one of the great things if you're one
of these kids, and I would have been one of them,
and I'm a first generation student as well, and that's
about twenty percent of our students today. But if you're
(03:44):
one of these lucky people with a totally free education,
you also are going to get a two thousand dollars
startup grant in August, and of your first year you
get a thousand that or a thousand at midyear, and
then you get what we call a launch grant of
two thousand dollars at the beginning of junior year so
(04:05):
that you can go off and travel and take job interviews,
look at graduate schools and so on, do all the
things that you need to do to launch yourself on
a career. So the other thing is it's now free
tuition for those who are incomes two hundred thousand dollars
and less, and that covers a good chunk of the
(04:26):
American population. Around eighty five percent of the American population,
you know, would certainly be covered by that. And the
other thing we're trying to get up the point across
is that there are plenty of families now who earn
two fifty three hundred thousand, three hundred and fifty thousand
(04:46):
dollars a year who by the time you look at
what they're spending on tuition and living expenses, and let's
say they've got three or four kids, and maybe they're
taking care of family, you know, an elderly family member,
or have other expenses, they can be sitting there more
or less broke at three hundred thousand dollars a year, So,
(05:10):
you know, so that's the other pieces we're trying to
remind people that almost no matter where you are on
the income distribution you're going to you're going to be
in very good shape in terms of being able to
afford Harvard. And none of the people, it's over fifty
five percent of our students right now are are on
(05:31):
need based financial aid at Harvard and they are not
required to take out loans or are they are required
to work over the summer. So it's a that's a
really really big difference. And I think that's that kind
of thing. It's not just at Harvard that there are
these great financial aid programs, but it also means that
(05:52):
I think more people are looking at places like us
and they're getting beyond this misconception really that you can't
afford to go to a place like Harvard or Boston College.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
So under a family that is making under one hundred
thousand dollars, it's it's what you call the full boat
tuition bedroom and board, and under two hundred thousand, the
tuition is gratis, but there's some room and board obligations.
Did I do I understand? I just try to break
that down a little simply.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Here is that that's right, and though you could, let's
say you're making two hundred to two fifty, and you
have unusual expenses, or you've got multiple kids in college
and of that kind of thing. In those situations, you
could get way more than just the tuition paid for. Okay,
So that's you know, this is a very generous set
(06:48):
of financial aid opportunities.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And let me let me just real quickly.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Grant Goslin, the dean of Admission and Financial Aid at
Boston College. Boston College is a fabulous institution. Are there
help is the help I should say for family families
and students who are a little bit more strapped than
(07:15):
once they're accepted. It's your admissions also basically blind as
to need. You're not saying, well, we can't accept his
kid because he can't pay as much.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Correct, that's correct. Yeah, So there are only about two
dozen private universities in the United States that practice two
policies simultaneously. The first is what you just referenced, practicing
need blind admission, meaning when we evaluate an applicant, we
are not looking to see whether they've applied for aid,
(07:47):
and if they have, we're certainly not looking at those
financial aid documents. We're admitting students based on the quality
of their application their merit within our pool, both Harvard
and Boston College, you know, both subscribed need blind admission,
but we're also then meeting the full demonstrated financial need
of the students that are admitted to our institutions. We're
(08:09):
really looking at what their families can afford to contribute
and really trying to help them meet the difference. And
we award a budget of about one hundred and ninety
million dollars a year in undergraduate need based financial aid
at Boston College. Many of our students will receive packages
atout loans. We have really just so many resources available.
(08:31):
I think oftentimes private universities you look at a sticker
price that might be quite high, and I think some
families will rule out institutions like Boston College or Harvard,
and I think that's a big mistake. Just as Bill
was saying a minute ago, our institutions a really well
resourced to provide the financial aid that families need to
(08:55):
be able to accept our offers, and we're really proud
of the work that we're doing in those areas. Is
so absolutely we would certainly encourage students to take a
close look, even if cost scenes burdensome. There are net
price calculators on our websites where students can go and
do a little bit of research to figure out if
(09:17):
they might qualify for aid and what that package might
look like. And those net price calculators come with a
high level of accuracy, about a ninety percent accuracy rate
in most families. So it really does, I think, provide
not only the great financial aid, but the transparency upfront
in terms of how families will be able to afford
(09:39):
our institutions.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Great opening segment because it does combine obviously the schools
and the financial resources, which in this day and age,
everyone almost has to take that into consideration in some
form of fashion. But you can consider it less at BC,
at Harvard and at some of the other marquee institutions
(10:04):
academic institutions around the country. When we get back and
again part of this program is to one get as
many phone calls as possible from parents, grandparents, but also
from students six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty,
six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There's a variety of topics.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I can ask one hundred questions everything dealing with student life.
You know, the courses that are available successive graduates. All
of that, we can we can talk about all of that,
but the most important questions of the questions that listeners
might have.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
If you're a grandparent or a parent, and.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
You're going to be the person who's going to be
dealing with the cost or at least part of the cost,
maybe all of the costs, Feel free if you're a student,
whether you're a freshman, sophomore, junior, and for that matter,
a senior whose application is sitting on the desk of
one of these great institutions. We love to hear from
students to be really honest with you. Over the years,
(11:02):
we've heard from many and some of them have been
very successful. So feel free six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one
ten thirty. Also, the importance of this program is for
families who are dealing this process for the first time,
because it can be overwhelming. And I don't care when
(11:25):
you went to college, if you went to college or
didn't go to college, it still has overwhelming because even
if you went to college twenty twenty five years ago
and now you're dealing with the fas financial forms, everything
is on the table. And for students SATs. How important
are they? Essays, letters of recommendation, of endorsement, whatever you
(11:50):
want to call it. Again, the only question that is
a dumb question is the question you don't have the
courage to ask.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I learned that in law school. So please question was
always on the final examle of the midterm, the one
you didn't ask in class.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
So take advantage of this opportunity. This is an extremely
busy time of year for both of these deans, Dean
Bill fitz Simmons of Harvard and Dean Grant Goscelin of
Boston College, and they have taken time tonight to answer
your questions. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I think
this is a critically important program for many of you
(12:26):
out there.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Take advantage of the opportunity. Back on Night Side, right
after a couple of brief messages.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
With me doctor Dean Grant Goslin of Boston College and
Dean Bill Fitzsimmons of Harvard.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I want to start just a quick question here with
both of you.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
We've got to have a five minutes before the break
at the bottom of the hour, and I do want
to get to questions from from callers. But from your
experience in recent years, what part of the college applications
that you see are students not taking as serious as
as seriously as they should. Obviously they either have to take,
(13:13):
you know, if they want the SAT or the ACT exams,
and we can get into the differences there.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Some schools require them, some schools don't. But when you
look at the applications overall, what sort of a tip
would you give.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I'll start with Grant Goslin. What areas of the application,
because the application is multifaceted, are not as strong as
they should be generally?
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Well, you know, I think at our institutions, and I
don't want to speak for Bill at Harvard, but certainly
at Boston College, I would imagine it's the same. At Harvard,
our students are very well prepared and they do take
the application process quite seriously. And you know, I think
they are working long before the deadlines arrive in helping
to prepare their applications for the institutions that they're considering.
(14:03):
You know, I always talk to students at around this time,
particularly seniors in high school, and I remind them that
most of their application has already been fulfilled, right, that
they've already taken the coursework that will prepare them well
for university studies. They've met people who have probably already
written their recommendations for them, They've been involved in clubs
(14:26):
and organizations, and really the only thing that is left
to work on is their writing statements, and most institutions
will require at least one personal statement through the common application.
Many institutions will also ask for supplemental essay prompts, and
I think those are probably the area that I would
(14:46):
encourage students to focus in on as closely as they can.
I think the supplemental essay prompts that many institutions offer
are often very much tied to the institution's mission, their values,
their ideals, and they are a real platform for students
to tell us what's important to them, why they align
(15:07):
with our institution's missions. You know, of three thousand colleges
that they could apply to, why is it that our
institutions showed up on their short list of colleges and universities?
And I do think it provides them with a real
opportunity to really be in the driver's seat of this
process and to set a narrative that will allow us
(15:27):
to better understand who they are and how they might
contribute to our communities.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Well, if it's Simmons with the applicants applications that you
have seen over the years, is there an area where
students could could get that edge if they made their
let us a recommendation or is it again with the
personal story. I suspect you're going to say that personal
story because I know that's so important to you.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Now that's true. I do think Grant covered it well
though I think this generation makes things seriously there. They
follow the rules, you know, not to you know, sort
of make a huge generalization. And so I don't think
there are obvious weaknesses. But one of the things that
(16:14):
we we want people to be happy at Harvard, we
have a we're very lucky, you have a ninety seven
ninety eight percent graduation rate. And one of the things
we ask people to do is to tell us, tell
us three things that you'd want to tell your roommate
about you and what kind of roommate you'd be. And
(16:37):
because we're you know, the whole idea is we're trying
to get people who will make one another better in
the rooming groups and on the teams and the dining
halls and so on. I think the other thing related
to that is that it's very easy for students to
forget what they do to help around the home. I mean,
(16:57):
some students have atonishing amounts of things that they do
to help. Whether it's taking care of younger siblings. I
did that, for example, and even had some others from
the neighborhood, but also you know, preparing meals.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Work.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
You know, work is noble, as we would say. I
mean one of the things. We lived across the street
from our gas station and our mom and pop store.
We all worked in it. And you know, I think
the kinds of things that people do, whether they're working
in their family's gas station or whether they're you know,
(17:37):
sort of working. Some of them work amazing numbers of
hours a week to help the family balance the budget.
But it's it's it's I think people sometimes tend to
forget those things that aren't listed as sort of conventional things.
You know, I'm ahead of the key club, or I'm
ahead of the student council, whatever. It's it's you the
(17:59):
person and what you actually do to make people around
you better at twenty four hours a day.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think that's a great synopsis for people to take
into consideration because I know your story, and I know
and i've you know, you've repeated a couple of times
over the years here that you actually stayed back one grade.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
And I think that's an inspirational story because it says,
to hey, someone who stays background not only is able
to apply and be admitted to Harvard, but also to
end up spending a career at that university helping others.
That's a pretty remarkable story. And I don't mean to
force you to tell it a ken, but I just
(18:43):
wanted to. I just wanted to say that it would
give a lot of hope to you know, young men
or young women or boys or girls whatever age who
might have having trouble academically that if they take a
step back sometimes and applying, things.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Will work out.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
And yeah, no, I'm happy to the fact is I'm
an expert on the ninth grade because I did a good.
Way to think about it, I played a little too
much hockey and did not play not pay as much
attention to academics. I did okay, but not terrifically well,
so I said, look, I'm going to try it. As
(19:21):
lawyers would say, you lawyers a different venue. So I
was lucky enough to get into Archershipulliums in Brain Free.
It totally changed my life. It gave me a whole
other set of opportunities to do it right. And in fact,
I'm still very very close to the school. We had
(19:45):
a terrific class and we've had reunions almost every five
or ten years, and we get together every year. Talk
about an institution changing your life. So I think it's
not a bad idea to think some people take it
gap year, you know, before going to college. You know,
it's this is not a race with your peers. This
(20:08):
is a you should be trying to make the most
of your talents, you know, whatever they are, and wherever
that goes. And it might lead to the military, it
might lead to a skilled trade position, it could lead
to any number of things that would lead to a
good life. But don't don't be afraid to step back
(20:30):
and do a mid course correction. Shall we say at any.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Point, well, I appreciate you on that Stow. You're the
second Archpaship Williams Goaltender the other being Steve Baker who
played at Union after Archie Bills. And they produce some
produced some really fine goaltenders and fine hockey players out
of that institution. And you and Steve Baker are of
tops in my book. That's that's for sure. Anyway, I
(20:58):
got to take a break. We got a news break
coming up here again. I'll give you the numbers one
more time. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty,
six one seven nine three one ten thirty six one
seven nine three one ten thirty and triple eight nine
to nine ten thirty. Don't mean to overwhelm you. Want
to give you some choices. We have a lot to cover.
(21:18):
We haven't even scratched the surface. But it's the questions
that are important now, the question that is in your mind,
that is for sure. When I get back, I want
to ask one quick question of what, at what age
should students' kids or their parents be helping them to
think about at least make them understand that there is
(21:40):
academics after high school for certain people. For some people,
some people after high school want to be done with academics.
That's okay too. Some of those people might eventually circle
back and apply later on to either of both of
these institutions, different paths to get you to the same place.
We're back one right after the news break, Stay with
(22:01):
us Bill fitz Simmons of Harvard, Grant Goslin and Boston College,
the deans of admission and financial aid at those two
great institutions.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Night side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Wan to come back here to the question, I sort
of suggest that I was going to ask it, how
soon should parents or should students actually start to think
about college if the parents think that that might be
a path that their child might be interested in. Bill
fitz Simmons, let me start with you on this one, if.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
I could, you know, I think it honestly depends on
the particular child, as it were. I mean, there are
you know, one could argue that it is not a
bad idea to start thinking somewhat early in high school
obviously about what curriculum path you want to take through
(23:02):
math or science or whatever. So that's one piece. You
want to make sure you get yourself lined up for
the kinds of courses that you would need to take
for college. But those are the same things that would
make you, you know, a good person for the military
or anything else. The preparing you making yourself better academically.
(23:23):
The other thing you got to be careful about, however,
I think, is not to put too much pressure on
the whole thing. And I think that's a whole other
a whole other piece. Sometimes that can be almost I
don't know, it can really turn out to be something
that can be a turnoff for students, you know, to
(23:46):
have too much pressure. But I think the idea of
being able to see a college and see different kinds
of colleges and envision yourself, say at a small school
in the country or let's say, you know, larger university
in a city, that kind of thing, and also not
be focused on defining success as getting into one of
(24:10):
two or three or four institutions when there are hundreds
and hundreds of great places that might be a great match.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, you have often talked about that, and I fully
understand that great acelin what year do most parents or
students come by for a tour of how soon should
that be done or should it be put off until
they're really kind of whittled down that DC might be
(24:39):
the school that they're most interested in.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
To be located in a part of the country with
an incredible number of just premier institutions, both public and
private institutions here and the Commonwealth, and so I think
we have the luxury of having quite a few visitors
to campus each year. We welcome about seventy thousand visitors
through the admission office doors each year, and so we
(25:07):
see a range in terms of when families begin this process.
I would say that historically, junior year has been the
real focus in terms of families getting out and visiting
colleges if they're able. We're seeing some of our students
begin that process a bit earlier, so we're seeing more
sophomores begin this process. I wouldn't recommend a full court,
(25:30):
you know, college search tour at sophomore year, but certainly
getting on a campus just to get a sense for
what it feels like and whether a student might picture
themselves there. Sometimes when you're set out as a sophomore,
it can be helpful just to listen to other students
that are on the tour, listen to the questions that
they're asking, because sometimes you know when you start out
(25:53):
that young students don't know where to start, and we
don't want to force students too early into this process.
But if students feel like they're excited about this expiration
process and want to get going in sophomore year, I
don't think that's too early. I do think it's important,
you know, as Bill mentioned a minute ago, you know,
not to put too much pressure on students. I think
(26:15):
it's really important that teenagers can be teenagers and can
experience high school for all of its value and take
time to explore various interests that they have, both academically
and socially. I always get worried when I hear students
or parents too early in the process asking for strategy
(26:37):
on how to get into college, or you know, what
sort of clubs or organizations should I join in order
to earn admission to your institution. And I think students,
really at fifteen sixteen years old, they should be just
trying a lot of new things and exploring interest that
they have. And some of those they might develop into
(26:57):
real areas of expertise, and some of them they might
try for a short time and move on to something else.
But I think there's real value in that exploration process,
and I wouldn't want that to get lost this process too.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I think Bill Fitzimmons just mentioned the idea of different
people in different sets of circumstances. I know that when
my kids were in that application process, there was a
lot of pressure. The kids were doing trips to Costa
Rica or Peru and you know, very exotic adventures when
there were people in the communities in which they lived who,
(27:33):
you know, needed help. And I think Bill Fitzsimmons probably
his reference to what it was like, you know, growing up,
you know, in a family that that had a gas station,
and kids were expected to help help, you know, with
the family as well as with with neighbors. So real
quickly if I can had had the standardized tests, the
(27:57):
ACTS and the SATs, have they made a comeback in
recent years? I know for a while they were voluntary
whether students wanted to take them, And how did the
the standardized tests compare in importance to a to a
solid high school transcript?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Gentlemen, who would take that one for me?
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I'm sorry, we're both we're both being extremely polite here.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
We'll have none of that, Bill Fitzimmons, you take it.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Every piece is important, you know, its own way. But uh,
and I think one of the things that we have
to say there has been a lot of great inflation
in high schools, and so you know, in some respects,
you know, it depends on the high school. That is
not true. It's not true at every high school. But
we have gone back to standardized testing. During COVID, we
(28:55):
had four years you know, where we were test optional
and we've gone back, and I think one of the
things we would say is that that, you know, if
testing is really really high, along with teachers saying great
things and other measures of academic excellence, that that's going
(29:16):
to help you. But you know, there's no there are
no really definite things you can say. It's not a formula.
And I think sometimes people are looking, you know, for
og it's a certain percentage of extracurriculars, or it's a
certain percentage of this or that. You know, if you're
Yo Yoma, the cellist, who we were lucky enough to
(29:38):
get him to come to Harvard, that's that's a you know,
terrific thing, you know for him and classmates. And you know,
that's one thing. So you know, extracurricular activities there are
four hundred and fifty of them at Harvard, believe it
or not, and we are forty two intercollegiate athletic teams,
and so there are a lot of different ways you
(29:59):
can you know, you can fit in and also you know,
be able to uh sort of make yourself, you know,
get to know other students and and uh get around
and about one of the things you might want to do.
Uh just to envision this a little bit is to
go on our websites. Because what we we've all invested
(30:19):
heavily in websites because we know that not everybody can
afford to visit. So we have a great virtual tour
that will take you all over Harvard. And we also
have a great number, a huge number really of student
profiles who will tell you about what they're doing on
a day to day basis. And honestly, if if I
(30:40):
want to figure out exactly what is the latest at Harvard,
I will go on our own website because a lot,
so there's a lot. It'll gives you a sense that
there are there are myriad ways for you to sort
of take yourself through life, take yourself through high school,
get yourself through college. And there's no one single thing
(31:04):
that that as necessary for anybody to do. It's it's
a there's no mold you have to fit.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Into grit your comment on again, acts, SATSU transcripts. They
were all important, obviously, but have our acts and SATs
coming back.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I know that that during COVID there were a lot
of schools did not did not encourage students. They actually
discourage students from taking those those tests, particularly when COVID
was really rampant.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Well, I think when when COVID was happening, the real
challenge was really just access to test centers. To begin with,
testing centers were not places that were open.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
People were being very careful from a health standpoint, and
so it became a real practical issue that if applicants
didn't have exam scores, colleges still needed to find ways
to enroll students, and so most colleges and universities during
that period did move to a test optional plan. A
number of colleges have moved back to requiring them. I
(32:10):
would say most colleges in the United States are still
test optional and provide students the option of submitting or not.
At Boston College, we remain test optional, but we have
moved toward recommending that any student that has taken the
exam submit their scores. We have seen that there is
a pretty significant and pretty noticeable predictive value in test scores,
(32:34):
particularly in a highly selective environment, and so we do
value having those scores as one aspect of the application.
The reason we haven't moved back fully is there are
still real inequities in various parts of the country and
around the world in terms of access to testing. The
state of California, for example, the entire state system became
(32:55):
test blind, and so there are test centers that have
closed throughout the state. And if you're a low income
student in a region that doesn't have access to a
test center, we don't want that student to not be
able to apply to Boston College. And so we're from
an access standpoint, we've maintained that. But the reality is
most of our applicants are able to take scores. Last year,
(33:17):
about seventy five percent of the students that we admitted
did submit scores at the time of applications.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
One follow up question, you said that you encourage students
who take the ACTS or the SAT submit this course.
So if a student takes the ACT or the SAT
and they don't get the score that they want, do
you know that they have chosen not to submit the
scores or is that they may You may request them,
but you don't know whether those who took the scores
(33:43):
and maybe don't want to submit them are holding them back.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Are you aware of that? Is there any way that
you can track that?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Or no?
Speaker 5 (33:52):
There isn't.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
No.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
No. I mean, we're encouraging students again to apply if
they like, but we're also transparent and again, the majority
of our students that have earned admission have submitted scores
in recent years.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Okay, jolenm Malim, takewa quick break here and we'll come back.
We'll wrap the hour and then we will reset and
the first hour of nightside. For the last couple of years,
we do brief interviews, and I think my audience has
been a conditioned to think that no phone calls are available.
Calls are available, folks six, one, seven, two, five, four,
(34:26):
ten thirty six, one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty
Back with the deans of Admission and Financial Aid at
Boston College and Harvard, Grant Gostlin from Boston College and
Bill fitz Simmons from Harvard. This is our nineteenth year
doing this program. Lots of information. We're also going to
talk a little bit about options for people to take
courses or even secure degrees without going through I guess
(34:51):
you'd call the traditional student application process. But again, the
best questions are the questions that are in the forefront
of your mind, either for yourself as a student or
for yourself as a parent or a grandparent. Back on
night Side right after this.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
With me the deans of admission to Boston College and
Harvard University, Boston College, Grand Costlin, Harvard University.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Bill Fitzsimmons. We only got a couple of minutes here.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
So we'll get calls on the other side of the
nine o'clock news. Some one of our listeners just said,
why aren't you taking phone calls? Because I think people
are listening at this point, So let me ask this
is a quick question I have. There are a lot
of students who think it's a great idea to almost
apply to as many schools now that you have the
(35:47):
common app is there an ideal number of schools that
would reflect that a student has focused down on a
few schools that he or she might be interested in,
And how wise is it to end up really use
taking advantage of common application and try to apply to
(36:11):
more than more than a handful.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
For us last time, how about you?
Speaker 5 (36:20):
You know, I think there's a lot of data out
there these days where students can find good information about
college selectivity, and many institute, many high schools will have tools,
whether they're maya learning or score or naveance or various
tools that their high schools will provide to give them
(36:41):
a sense of past applicants to various colleges and universities
and will give them information about the realistic chances at
those institutions. I think a well designed search these days
students are are applying to about eight to ten colleges
on average, and I think a well designed search would
have that list include a range of colleges. Some of
(37:04):
them might be institutions that are super selective and aspirational
for that student. That list should also include some institutions
that the student is very confident in their admissibility, and
then some that could go either way. And I think
a lot of times students put extra pressure on themselves
(37:27):
by only applying to the most selective institutions, and when
that doesn't work out, then panic sets in and families
are really struggling to find a college late in the cycle,
and so I encourage students to be honest about their aspirations,
to have a balanced list, and I think a well
(37:47):
designed search doesn't need to apply to more than ten colleges.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Great answer, Bill fit Simmons only got about thirty seconds.
I assume you would agree with Grant on most of that.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Anything you'd like to add, absolutely. The only thing I
guess i'd say is make sure you have that one college.
You know, we in the old age, we'd call it
a safety school, and it's not just that you'd get in,
is that you would be really happy there. And I
think that's an important piece. I mean, college is a
(38:17):
great they have fun. I like everyone I visit. The
other thing is if you apply to too many places
and you, you know, go beyond what Grant talked about,
you can really get pretty confused by the time you
get into a make up that mind.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
When we get back, there's some other things that you've mentioned.
One of the things I want to talk about is naviance,
and I hope that every high school guidance counselor is
aware of naviance.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
But I also want to make sure parents and students
who are aware of that as well. We have several
other topics to hit to. I so appreciate the time
that both Bill Fitzsimmons and Grant Goslin are providing my
audience tonight, and now I hope some of you will
take advantage of their generosity of time six one seven,
two four ten thirty or six one seven nine three
one ten thirty. We'll be back right after the nine
(39:05):
o'clock newscasts. Gentlemen, you can stretch your legs for a
couple of minutes and get a glass of water back
on night side right after this
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