October 7, 2025 • 39 mins
It was two years ago today that the terror attacks against Israelis occurred in which Hamas and other militant groups killed around 1,200 people and took 251 hostages. Today, peace talks continue between the two warring groups with President Trump’s Administration facilitating. We are now past the original 72-hour deadline that Trump gave Hamas to accept the deal…Will we see an agreement reached anytime soon as Hamas appears to be stalling? Former US Delegate to the United Nations Human Rights Commission in Geneva, attorney Jeff Robbins joined us to mark the two-year anniversary of the Oct. 7th terror attacks.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
As night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Costin's new Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Those pesky Yankees came back three run home run by
Aaron Judge tied that game up. They were down six
to one, So we'll keep an we'll keep an eye
on that for sure. Between me and Dan Watkins, one
of us will have it for you.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well, this is a sad day.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It is the second anniversary of the Hamas attack on
innocent Israeli men, women and children starting out at the
music festival on that Saturday morning two years ago. And
there have been well so many ups and downs in
the last two years.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
It's difficult to count them all.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
But we have had on as a guest on several occasions,
both before this but also following it. Attorney Jeff Robbins
a former executive director at the end of Defamation League
here in New England. He worked in the Clinton administration.
He worked as an assistant US attorney. He is just
a wonderful background as an attorney. He also feels very
(01:12):
deeply about what's going on in the Middle East, and
so we could not let this sad anniversary pass go unnoticed.
The I guess, Jeff, the only thing we can look
for tonight is that in Egypt today there were some
more negotiations with the US in Egypt and Cutter trying
(01:38):
to work out some sort of a deal that will
satisfy Jimas and satisfy Israel. Seems to me like there's
still quite a gulf here between both sides. How optimistic
are you tonight that this might You know, we can't
change the horror, the horror of two years ago and
(02:00):
everything that the hostages have undergone. Some of them were
killed in captivity, others are still in captivity. Is there
any optimism that you see tonight? The deadline that President
Trumpet imposed on Jumas was Sunday night, two nights ago.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I'm a little.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Confused as to where we're going here. What's your sense
of it? You follow it very closely well.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Dan, First of all, thank you for having me on
to thank you for marking this very sad occasion, brutal occasion, really,
the brutality of the slaughter of thirteen hundred or so
all told Israelis by three to five thousand Hamas gunmen
that invaded on October seventh for the purpose of slaughtering
(02:47):
as many Israelis as they possibly could there was a
brutality to that, a savagery to that, and there's been
a brutality in the aftermath, as you saw, you have seen,
and we've talked about it. People celebrate, defend, justify, exult
in the slaughter. Who would have thought that, And of
course there's been a terrible brutality visited upon the people
(03:11):
of Gaza by Hamas regime that not only expected many
many to die, but hoped for many to die because
the more depths of the Palestinians they supposedly cared about,
the better off they were, and you have seen Hamas
spokesman express explicit on that point. I'm wary. I'm hopeful,
(03:35):
but I'm wary about what's happening in Egypt. There's all
sorts of good signs, and I have to say that
as a Democrat and somebody who has very strong feelings,
not positive ones, about the Trump administration and the president himself,
I think you have to give credit where credit is due.
He and his team deserve a lot of credit for
(03:55):
getting it to the point where at least you can
imagine that there might be a resolution. But I also
think that the dirty little fact is, the sad fact
is that Hamas could have done this if in fact
it's going to do this two years ago or eighteen
months ago, or twelve months ago or six months ago.
And the only reason that they are where they are,
(04:18):
if they are where they where we hope they are,
is because of the military action taken by Israel, which
let's face it really didn't have much other choice. So
the bottom line is I'm hopeful, but I'm very very wary.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, I share in that hope, and I share also
in that that concern. Here's my question. Hamas all along
has toyed and they their purpose is to survive. If
they came to the point where they knew that, if
these conversations ended, that at that point the idef you know,
(04:57):
at the direction of Prime Minister Nanya, who would be
given a full, full green light to go in and
do what they have to do, which is to literally
find as many of these Hamas terrorists as possible and
eliminate them. That's the if they really think that's on
the table, that's the only way that I think they
might say, well, we'll agree as long as we have
(05:19):
safe passage. Is that the key that's going to have
to happen here that we're going to have to watch
Hamas villainans leave Gaza with safe passage to somewhere.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I have no idea who would want to accept them
in the first place.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Well, I think all of the things that you've alluded
to and included in that question are correct, including the
fact that if in fact there is going to be
a deal, it is only because the alternative for Hamas
is elimination, and that this offers them a chance to survive,
(05:56):
to fight another day. I have some hesitation in believing
that there will ever be a disarmament by Hamas, and
I don't know how given how deeply embedded they are
unfortunately in Gaza. I don't know what a evacuation safe
passage scheme would look like, but I think that it's it.
(06:21):
I think that net Yahoo is correct in this, that
it is only under pressure that we've gotten to this point,
and it is pressure, which whatever you think about net Yahoo,
and I know he's deeply unpopular among many people here
and as well in the Israel, that the fundamental calculation
that there was no choice, there has been no choice
(06:44):
but to apply the military pressure. I don't think that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
By the way, my view, my personal view of net
Yahoo is He's Israel's Churchill.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I do you know, I've got criticisms of net Yahoo,
but I do not. As I've said before, I'm damned
if I know what choice he had, Yeah, given October seventh,
but to pursue Hamas the way he has. I wish
that there had been some alternative. But I think there's
a lot of truth in what you say.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I really do, And I think, like Churchill, if and
when this is over the next election, Hamas rather Netna,
who either will not stand for reelection or he would
be defeated, I think. But that was the fate of
Churchill as well. But without without Churchill, most of us
(07:34):
might be speaking a German dialect these days, in my opinion,
if England had rolled over while we were sleeping. But
we'll save that for another night, Jeff, Let's do this.
Let's invite people to call, and maybe people can focus
on the potential of a positive result here. I mean,
(07:55):
get Hamas out of there, don't allow them to take
their weapons with them. I guess you could have some
sort of a compromise where they could have their weapons
shipped separately to wherever they were going.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
But I just.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
One moment I think, Yeah, this is going to work,
and then another moment I think it's not going to work.
And if it's not going to work, let's get it
over with because enough people have suffered along hope. I
hope that this doesn't go on for weeks or for
that matter of months. I hope that if it becomes
apparent that they don't want to surrender, I think ya,
(08:43):
who has to be allowed to do what I think
he's willing to do and what the idea of forces
are willing to do. We'll see what people think. My
guest is Jeff Robbins. My opinions are my opinions. Jeff's
opinions are his, and some of those opinions we agree upon,
or we may in part whatever.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Uh. Either way, don't mix the opinions up.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Generally, I think we're on.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
The same side of most of the argument here, and
I trust most of you are as well. So if
you feel that somehow you want to engage in a conversation,
that's great. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty. This is
not a pleasant topic to think about because it was
(09:30):
a horrific moment in time when israel guard was down
and civilians were butchered, literally butchered by him. As somehow,
some way Israel has survived. They have always survived, and
hopefully this can get resolved without any further bloodshed. But
(09:51):
I'm not convinced we are at that point yet. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten
thirty back with your phone call. As I've said before,
great topics. Jeff is a great guest. This is a
tough topic, but it's a great topic. Ad callers and
stir back on nights Side.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Jim from Texas, if you're listening, give us a call back.
You are going to be the first s up. I
don't think I've ever had you as a caller before.
Unfortunately we lost you all you dropped off. So give
us a call back and we will get you on
six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty very quickly, Jeff,
if I can, in your opinion, In your opinion, how
long does the United States and does Israel allow these
(10:41):
negotiations to go on?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Is there an out time?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Do you think that they have that they have made
is clear to the Hamas negotiators.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
I think that the decision on that is going to
be made by President Trump, and that Israel is going
to have to buy by the decision made by President
Trump under the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So if if if Trump says, look, they have until
you know, midnight Friday or whatever, that that then would
allow Prime Minister that now Yahoo to do what he
feels maybe necessary to do. So yeah, okay, And and
just to handicap it here, if if the best solution
(11:27):
is Hamas lies out, lays down its arms, uh and
has given safe passage out of Gaza, which I know
is a big ask and is you know, is not.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
For sure, what sort.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Of a h on a percentage chances would you give
that happening which would be the best resolution for everyone,
for the Gossen people, for the for the fighters from
Hamas who are still alive, and for the idea of
what what do you think that that chance of that
is much much under.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Under ten percent. I don't see Hamas agreeing to disarm
or disarming, even if they say they're to disarm, and
I don't see them, you know, the those leaders that
are still that are on the ground in Gaza. Uh
leaving Gaza.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Okay, Well that's.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I was afraid you would to say that, let's get
a phone, let's go to phone calls. We we missed
a gym in Texas, but I do have Arnold in Milwaukee. Arnold,
Welcome to Night's Side. You're on with Jeff Robbins.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Go right ahead, ye Dan hi, Jeff, I appreciate you
having me on. I called in ale while Bet when
we were talking about the MTAs blaytant anti Semitism they're
handing out to teachers. I work in an organization called
Parents for Peace, where we coach families who have radicalized
loved ones regarding ways to get that person on a
(12:49):
better path. We also work directly with the radicalized individuals
to help them find a healthier way to live their life.
And I I'm by no means an expert on what's
happening on the ground in Israel and Gaza, but obviously
that situation is affecting everybody here in the States. And
(13:11):
the reason I'm covering is I just want to make
the statement that anti Semitism, first and foremost harms Jewish people,
and for that reason alone, all of us in civil
society need to organize against it and find a way
to counter it. But a lot of people don't understand
is that anti Semitism actually harms the anti Semites as well.
(13:34):
Our caseloaded parents for Peace involves all sorts of families
from all over North America, most of whom are not Jewish,
and most of whom have zero ties to Jewish people whatsoever.
But these families have been devastated by a loved one
falling under the influence of anti Semitic, hateful ideology. And
(13:56):
it's important to understand that all of these Prohamas protests
that are happening. I understand, one blew up in the
commons tonight. I hope the police officers involved are okay,
But but all this excuse me.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
When you when you when you say one blew up,
I assume you were referring to the Boston common singular.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Was there? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (14:19):
Yeah, is there nothing the protests blew up in the
figurative sense, not necessarily an explosive device.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
No, no, no, right, okay, I just wanted to clarify that.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And when you said you hope none of the police,
what you're saying is was the demonstration and hopefully everybody
behaved themselves, got a chance to exercise their First Amendment
rights and went home.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
The people that you're dealing with primarily UH families whose
whose kids or whose members have become radicalized and have
become virulently anti Israel and anti Semitic.
Speaker 6 (14:52):
Yes, that that is a common thread for almost all
of our cases. And we handle all violent extremist narratives,
everything from white nationalism to Islamism, to Antifa to humas
and all of those violent extreamist ideologies. If it was
a venn diagram, they all overlapped on anti semitism and
(15:14):
hatred of Jews.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
And now you how successful are you with bringing people,
you know, out of those dark areas and a lot
of dark areas in the web and bringing them back
to a more rational point of view.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
We're we're fairly successful. I'd say we probably got a
success rate of about seventy percent. There's some that, unfortunately
we just can't help a lot of times, if the
entire family is in that shape, it's hard to get
everybody on a healthier path together, although we have been
able to do that, but we really look at it
(15:53):
as a recovery process, and we treat hate as an addiction,
but we focus on anti Semitism because anti Semitism is
far and away, like the opiate strength and all of
the addictive by an extremist ideologies. It's really just brilling
people's lives, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I want to get Jeff to comment on this. I
think I recall the conversation I had with Arnold in
the past, but I don't know that there are a
lot of organization like this around the country. I think
there's probably a need for them. Your thoughts, Jeff on this,
Have you heard of groups like this?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Well?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I have very much heard of Parents for Peace. There
a terrific organization and they do heroic, very well thought
out work around the country. So it's it's great to
get a call from him. They you know. One of
the interesting things is that Parents for Peace work a
lot with with with wisdom families obviously who have kids
(16:52):
or loved ones who have been radicalized. And one of
the aspects of just how awful this situation that he
describes is is the intimidation that is visited upon Muslim
moderates who try to fight back against anti semitism. It's
a real problem and more broadly, you know the problem
(17:14):
that the caller speaks of, and you and I have
talked about it, Dan, this really diseased, hate filled, vitriolic
viciousness that began or that was evident on the after
by the afternoon of October seventh, twenty twenty three, where
there already demonstrations against Israel, supposedly for being to blame
(17:37):
for October for the massacre, or defending it or exalting
at it. And for the last two years we've seen
this really take roots. So congratulations to parents for peace
and for all those who are trying to and Dan,
nobody more than you who are trying to shine a
light on the viciousness the insanity that has ensued since
(17:58):
October seventh.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Well, what of the things about anti Semitism.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I'm not an expert on it by any stretch of
the imagination, but it seems to me that the anti
Semite always goes back to these blood libels. Well, you know,
they if you press them and why do you hate
Jewish people or why do you hate Israel?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
And they conflate Jewish people with Israel.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Although there are many Jewish people who are not supportive
of the Israeli government at any given time.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
But they'll come back to, well, they run the bank,
so they run this or they run that.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It's always they they they they they somehow that has
been implanted in people's minds. And I think that's the
forerunner if you can condition people. And I don't know,
I'd love to see if Arnold agrees with me on
that that this thought of well, this group has greater
power than their population would would justify.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Do you know what I'm saying when I suggest that, Arnold,
and how far off am I?
Speaker 5 (19:01):
No?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
I figure spot on Dan and this. I do this
work because thirty years ago I was a white nationalist skinhead,
and I used my lived experience knowing how people fall
under the influence of these ideologies and also how to
get them out, to hopefully do my job better in
this context. But you made a great point, and that
(19:23):
point is is that all of these anti Semitic tropes
about running the banks, running the media, controlling the government,
controlling the weather, they all go back to a hax forged,
plagiarized document called the Protocols of Zion, which originated around
the turn of the twentieth century. From the nineteenth twentieth
(19:47):
century in Russia, and it went from the Tsaris to
the Bolsheviks, to the Nazis, to the Stalinists, to the
disinformation campaign led by the USSR in the nineteen sixties
Flannder Israel, and all of this anti so called anti
Zionism that we hear nowadays, which is just anti Semitism repackage,
(20:08):
can be traced directly back to this fake hulks plagiarized document,
the Protocols of Zion.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Well, Arnold, you're doing great work.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Thanks for checking in with us every once in a while,
and we do talk about this issue and hopefully we
can talk about it in the next few days and
that at least temporarily peace will be restored. Thank you
so much for your call, and thank you for the
work you do with Parents for Peace. If folks want
to get in touch with Parents for Peace, I assume
it's Parents for Peace dot org as a website.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Yeah, Parents four peace dot org with the number four.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Okay, well, that makes a difference, parents the numeral four
for Peace dot org. Arnold, thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
Thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Jeff.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
We'll continue on here. I got a break for news again.
I know at this time. It's early morning in the
Middle East, so we're not going to be surprised with
any breakthrough tonight while we're on the air, So we'll
just assume we're talking about the status growth. The negotiations
will continue in a few hours and hopefully maybe tomorrow
(21:14):
will be the day that there will be a breakthrough.
My guest is Jeff Robbins. He's an attorney, first Amendment attorney,
deals in all sorts of critical issues, great experience in government,
representing our country at the United Nations. Also was a
representative of the Clinton administration. He practices law here in Boston,
(21:37):
and of course you know him also as a columnist
for the Boston Herald. Love to hear from my listeners
tonight the hopes that I know many of you share.
Feel free to lend you a voice to this call
and that maybe, somehow, some way things will turn around
in the next couple of days. So the next few days,
(21:58):
because frankly, if Hamas digs their heels in there, there's
options that I think are there. And if Hamas has
learned nothing, they should have seen what happened to the
Iranian nuclear program. President Trump threatened something and he acted
(22:18):
it was quite a gamble, but I think he won
on that, and I think that in this case it
will be the idea which will be authorized to finish
the job. Back on Nightside only line right now is
six one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Feel free to join the conversation. Coming right back.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Back to the phone to go. Let me go to
Sarah in Boston. Sarah, you are next on nights Side
with Jeff Robbins.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
Go ahead, Sarah, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 7 (22:52):
Thanks so much for having me on. I should say
I'm a director of advocacy at ADL, but I'm calling
tonight really just in my personal capacity as a Jew
who has experienced the unbel unbelievable life changing impacts of
ten to seven. I just want to note, like your
last caller, I am really not in a position to
(23:13):
speak with any authority on the best way forward to
achieve peace. I wish that many others, the armchair experts
would perhaps have a little bit of humility in that
regard as well. And I think it's really interesting though
that a lot of the people who have been screaming
from the rooftops that Israel was committing genocide even before
(23:34):
ten seven. That was a claim. We're also urging Hamas
not to accept this deal and continue to protest now,
notwithstanding the position where we were on the cusp of
potentially having a peace deal. But I did want to
just share some reflections on the day. You know, October
seventh is an open wound for this community. How could
(23:58):
we possibly begin to heal or even process the horrors
that were inflicted on that day when we were immediately
facing this avalanche of hate. I have just been so
shocked by what, you know, what appears to be almost
Holocaust denial in real time. Hamas posted the videos. People
(24:19):
are either these folks are either denying it or saying
some version of that we deserved it or Israel deserved it.
Those people and those families that were kid killed deserves it.
And I, like I will never get used to reading
articles that, you know, any articles on this topic that
will start with, you know, the horrors of ten to
seven and the anti Semitism that followed, and that that's
(24:44):
such a it's such a logical problem, right and and
we're also used to it at this point. But if
you pause for a second and consider that the Jewish
community suffered the worst horrors, the worst slaughter, barbaric slaughter
since the Holocaust, on ten to seven, and the reaction
wasn't the world wrapping its arms around us. The reaction
(25:07):
was more hate coming at us. And so I think
for many in our community, our lives just haven't been
the same and they will not. They certainly can't move forward.
We can't move forward until the remaining hostages are returned
home and until this brutal war ends, which Israel didn't
(25:27):
ask for, Israel didn't want, and none of us want.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I kind of imagine what I kind of imagine what
it would be like. I'm not Jewish, but I kind
of imagine what it would be like to see this,
this horrific, this horror played over and over again historically,
you know, whether it again was you know, the programs,
or the Holocaust or this. I read something yesterday that
(25:55):
this is a name from the past that no one
is probably going to remember. But forty years ago yesterday
I read one of those what happened on this day
the Achille Laurel. The boat was taken over, and there
was a Jewish American named Leon Klinghoffer who was in
a wheelchair and he was pushed off the boat. He
(26:16):
was there with his wife by these terrorists in just
to die in the ocean. And the cruelty that the
Jewish people over centuries have had to endure at the
hands of anti semits. To think that your children and
your grandchildren, it doesn't seem to ever want to end,
(26:38):
do you know the point of trying.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
To make it, It really doesn't. It really doesn't. So
my grandparents were Holocaust survivors. They both lost their entire
families pretty much. My grandfather saved my grandmother. He also
saved over a thousand other Jews, smuggling them over into
relative safety. But it's remarkable that in an a of
(27:00):
information that we live in, with access to so much,
and you and as you sort of suggested, you could
pretty much open you know, a chapter at any point
in history and see these things going on and see
what results from them. And it's never it's obviously never
good for the Jews, but it's it's it threatens all
of us. It never ends well, and somehow we still
(27:22):
face this denial. And I think there are there are
a few things as upsetting to me as has been
the feeling that we have to fight to simply be seen,
and all of you know, the sort of progressive ideology
which I very much subscribe to, like my whole life,
my whole adult life, thrown out the window when it
(27:45):
comes to our suffering and our pain, being made to
feel that we're taking up too much space by even
naming what we're experiencing, and the sense that we have
to beg for scraps of acknowledgment of our our humanity,
beg our elected leaders to simply acknowledge when we all
know the facts, which is that if any other community
(28:07):
were being targeted, and even a fraction of the ways
that our community has been, we would be hearing about
it constantly. There would be there would be memes, there
would be slogans, there would be all manner of support
coming through. And instead, the Jews have to look to
each other to give comfort to each other. And I
(28:29):
am grateful for that, and it is a privilege to
be able to work with and for my community. But
we are, and I would and you know, present company excluded.
We do have allies, and I am so grateful for
the ones we have, but we have far too few.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Well, I said that to be honest with you, and
it's frustrating. Jeff and I have talked about that many times.
I just don't understand why there's group people who you know,
went to the desert built a.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Thriving economy in the Middle East, something that other nations.
And I think Donald Trump is smart.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Enough to recognize that and is basically saying to other
Arab nations where people are legitimate, you know, look, you
can you can improve, you can be like Israel. And
and maybe it's the economic message that will that will
break through in the Middle East and then back here.
But I just think that there's been so much said, uh,
(29:34):
you know, over the years, and that people have have
haven't allowed to be implanted in their minds, and it's.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's frightening. Alan, you're you're my guest.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Sarah is so eloquent here your comment on on her comments,
I'm I'm not.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I'm without words here. She was so eloquent.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Well, obviously it's very moving to hear this from Sarah
and and I couldn't agree more. And you know, on
the begging for scraps front imagion, imagine within hours of
the while body fragments were still being collected, in southern Israel,
(30:17):
that they're basically are professors exulting in this, celebrating and
cheering it on, saying it's inspirational.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Look, well you're talking about that.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You're talking about that guy at Cornell who was merely suspended.
He said he felt exhilarated by what he saw. How
could he feel exhilarate? How could he use that word?
He's an intelligent man. They'll be like saying that that
that someone who was a virulent white racist was exhilarated
because they saw a movie about a black person being
(30:46):
lynched in the in the in the.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Post bell himself. And yet he's still on the faculty
at Cornell.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Yeah, and you've got thirty four student organizations at Harvard
that within hours blamed Israel for it. You had Democratic
Socials of America rallies, You had rallies all over the
place talking about how it was resistance. You had in
the weeks that followed, people all over America God help us,
and elsewhere in the world ripping down posters simply asking
(31:17):
that young people are old people who were in gos
and tunnels be remembered. How do you get wrap your
arms around that? All you can do is say that
there's a disease and you, you have been good enough,
wonderful enough, then so constantly, relentlessly shine a spotlight on it.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, my honor and my pleasure of someone who's not Jewish.
People say to me, as I've said on this radio
station before, well you know Jewish, welcome you so pro Israel.
How come you so pro Jewish? I said, Well, the
guy who found it my religion happened to be Jewish,
his parents were Jewish, and that kind of stuns him.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Folks, I got to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I got Jamie and Sharon coming up in Joe and Weston,
and if there's a couple more they want to join
the converse station. Sarah, thank you for your eloquence tonight
and your passion. By the way, you're justifiable passion.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
Thank you, my pleasure, and thank you for your allyship.
It means so much my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
My pleasure, my duty. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Take a quick break back with Jeff Robbins. Join the conversation.
Jeff will stay with us two eleven. I'm more than
happy to talk about this into the eleven o'clock hour,
because I think if we can't rally for Israel after
what they have gone through?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Who will we ever rally for? Simple as that?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And if you're sitting home and you agree with us,
feel free to pick up the phone and add your
voice to the chorus. Silence is not golden in this situation.
Silence can be described by some people as sort of
tacit approval of what happened two years ago.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Today, back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Let's keep I'm going to try to move the college
just a little bit more quickly, Jamie and Sharon Jamie
next time NIGHTSIG right ahead, Hi.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
Dane, I want to first thank you for doing this
tonight on what is a very painful anniversary for many
of us in the Jewish community. I don't know that
I can be as eloquent as as your previous caller,
Sarah was, or or your guests, but I don't think
(33:32):
people really understand how painful it is for many of us.
We don't necessarily talk about it, you know, with our
work colleagues and friends who aren't Jewish. We tend to
really talk feel more comfortable talking within the Jewish community,
(33:55):
and it's really hard for me to imagine all the
pain that many college students who are Jewish have endured
over the last few years.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
But I also think, you know, in all honesty, Jamie,
that you calling tonight is important because a lot of
people who don't know you will hear the authenticity and
the passion and the pain in your voice as we
heard from Sarah, and people can ignore it. They don't
you know, they may not have people who will discuss
(34:32):
it with them. I always want this program to be
accessible and available to fight against anti Semitism. My dad
was in World War Two and he told me back
in the day, never forget what happened in the Holocaust.
That was what was taught at our dinner table. And
I visited Auschwitz in nineteen eighty six and did TV
(34:55):
reports from there, and it had a tremendous impact.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
It reinforced everything my father had said to me.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
So, yeah, that's wonderful. I think what's the scariest for
many of us is, you know what our children and
grandchildren are having to deal with in school, and you know,
where does it come from. Clearly they learn it from
somewhere else, and they learn it at home, and you know, Unfortunately,
(35:27):
there are some professors, as you've just spoken about, and
some teachers in our k through twelve systems who you know,
are advocates. I think they're advocating on behalf of all
human rights. But they're choosing, and they're choosing to be political,
(35:48):
and they're choosing to try and you know, brainwash children.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And that will I will also say this, and you
have no way of knowing this, but as a Catholic
who is in perfect in so many ways, I do
go to church, and I do not hear from the
pulpit of the Catholic churches that I've gone to anywhere
near the amount of support for Israel and for the victimization,
(36:14):
you know, a criticism of what happened. I don't hear
that from Catholic Church pulpits. And it disappoints me because
I grew up at a time when anti Semitism was
I heard a lot of those jokes as a kid,
and I filed them away in my mind. And the
Catholic Church talks a lot about things like social justice,
(36:35):
but they don't talk about justice for Israel. And that
is an element that is missing from Catholic theology today.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
In my opinion.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
Well, that's that's really awful to hear. I'm shocked and
sorry to hear it. I do think there are some churches.
I don't think it's the Catholic churches. I think it's
tends to be Protestant, you know, very liberal churches that
(37:05):
are very you.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Know, progressive, progressive right. They're progressive right, and but for
some reason Israel gets a pass and uh right. And look,
I don't go to Protestant churches. I can only speak
about Catholic churches. But I and I've talked to Jeff
about this privately, and I just thought to know, I'm
going to say it publicly.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
And I really don't care.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
And if there are people out there who think I
am criticizing my religion, I'm criticizing the leadership of my religion.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
Well, I think I think we have a lot to
ask of all of our leaders, are religious leaders, and
you know, all of our civic and political leaders these days,
to to really try and you know, teach love and
not hatred.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
It's just so, and and identify the difference. There was
no administered to Jewish to Israeli's on the on the
morning of October seventh, it was nothing but unadulterated hatred. Uh,
and some have not been able to bring themselves even
to understand that, Jamie, I got to run here. Thank
you so much. I hope you'll continue to listen to
(38:16):
my show and call my.
Speaker 5 (38:17):
Show off a thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
You're welcome, Jeff, as always, thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
The call has kind of took over in the last
half hour, which is a tribute to you. You got
you got them going, and I'm going to continue into
the next hour.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
My friend, let us go.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
For doing this my pleasure, my pleasure, you know what
it it's the right thing to do. Wow, there's no no, uh,
there's no other choice, Jeff. I mean it's clear. It's
clear you're you're either with the light or with darkness.
And and I think Israel is the light, and that's
what I believe. We will talk soon and we'll continue
(38:54):
into the next hour, Jeff. Hopefully there'll be a time
later this week, early next week where we can celebrate peace.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Peace, we'll see.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
You're very welcome, Jeff. Thank you so much to Eileen
and John and Joe and Bob. Stay there.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
The only line opened six point seven two five, four
ten thirty. Let's light them up. If you agree with me, fine,
If you disagree with me fine uh. And if you're
out there and you're a practicing Catholic and you feel
that what I said is off base, feel free. And
if you feel it's on the money, feel free. Back
on Night's side after this
As night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Costin's new Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Those pesky Yankees came back three run home run by
Aaron Judge tied that game up. They were down six
to one, So we'll keep an we'll keep an eye
on that for sure. Between me and Dan Watkins, one
of us will have it for you.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well, this is a sad day.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It is the second anniversary of the Hamas attack on
innocent Israeli men, women and children starting out at the
music festival on that Saturday morning two years ago. And
there have been well so many ups and downs in
the last two years.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
It's difficult to count them all.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
But we have had on as a guest on several occasions,
both before this but also following it. Attorney Jeff Robbins
a former executive director at the end of Defamation League
here in New England. He worked in the Clinton administration.
He worked as an assistant US attorney. He is just
a wonderful background as an attorney. He also feels very
(01:12):
deeply about what's going on in the Middle East, and
so we could not let this sad anniversary pass go unnoticed.
The I guess, Jeff, the only thing we can look
for tonight is that in Egypt today there were some
more negotiations with the US in Egypt and Cutter trying
(01:38):
to work out some sort of a deal that will
satisfy Jimas and satisfy Israel. Seems to me like there's
still quite a gulf here between both sides. How optimistic
are you tonight that this might You know, we can't
change the horror, the horror of two years ago and
(02:00):
everything that the hostages have undergone. Some of them were
killed in captivity, others are still in captivity. Is there
any optimism that you see tonight? The deadline that President
Trumpet imposed on Jumas was Sunday night, two nights ago.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I'm a little.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Confused as to where we're going here. What's your sense
of it? You follow it very closely well.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Dan, First of all, thank you for having me on
to thank you for marking this very sad occasion, brutal occasion, really,
the brutality of the slaughter of thirteen hundred or so
all told Israelis by three to five thousand Hamas gunmen
that invaded on October seventh for the purpose of slaughtering
(02:47):
as many Israelis as they possibly could there was a
brutality to that, a savagery to that, and there's been
a brutality in the aftermath, as you saw, you have seen,
and we've talked about it. People celebrate, defend, justify, exult
in the slaughter. Who would have thought that, And of
course there's been a terrible brutality visited upon the people
(03:11):
of Gaza by Hamas regime that not only expected many
many to die, but hoped for many to die because
the more depths of the Palestinians they supposedly cared about,
the better off they were, and you have seen Hamas
spokesman express explicit on that point. I'm wary. I'm hopeful,
(03:35):
but I'm wary about what's happening in Egypt. There's all
sorts of good signs, and I have to say that
as a Democrat and somebody who has very strong feelings,
not positive ones, about the Trump administration and the president himself,
I think you have to give credit where credit is due.
He and his team deserve a lot of credit for
(03:55):
getting it to the point where at least you can
imagine that there might be a resolution. But I also
think that the dirty little fact is, the sad fact
is that Hamas could have done this if in fact
it's going to do this two years ago or eighteen
months ago, or twelve months ago or six months ago.
And the only reason that they are where they are,
(04:18):
if they are where they where we hope they are,
is because of the military action taken by Israel, which
let's face it really didn't have much other choice. So
the bottom line is I'm hopeful, but I'm very very wary.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, I share in that hope, and I share also
in that that concern. Here's my question. Hamas all along
has toyed and they their purpose is to survive. If
they came to the point where they knew that, if
these conversations ended, that at that point the idef you know,
(04:57):
at the direction of Prime Minister Nanya, who would be
given a full, full green light to go in and
do what they have to do, which is to literally
find as many of these Hamas terrorists as possible and
eliminate them. That's the if they really think that's on
the table, that's the only way that I think they
might say, well, we'll agree as long as we have
(05:19):
safe passage. Is that the key that's going to have
to happen here that we're going to have to watch
Hamas villainans leave Gaza with safe passage to somewhere.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I have no idea who would want to accept them
in the first place.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Well, I think all of the things that you've alluded
to and included in that question are correct, including the
fact that if in fact there is going to be
a deal, it is only because the alternative for Hamas
is elimination, and that this offers them a chance to survive,
(05:56):
to fight another day. I have some hesitation in believing
that there will ever be a disarmament by Hamas, and
I don't know how given how deeply embedded they are
unfortunately in Gaza. I don't know what a evacuation safe
passage scheme would look like, but I think that it's it.
(06:21):
I think that net Yahoo is correct in this, that
it is only under pressure that we've gotten to this point,
and it is pressure, which whatever you think about net Yahoo,
and I know he's deeply unpopular among many people here
and as well in the Israel, that the fundamental calculation
that there was no choice, there has been no choice
(06:44):
but to apply the military pressure. I don't think that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
By the way, my view, my personal view of net
Yahoo is He's Israel's Churchill.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I do you know, I've got criticisms of net Yahoo,
but I do not. As I've said before, I'm damned
if I know what choice he had, Yeah, given October seventh,
but to pursue Hamas the way he has. I wish
that there had been some alternative. But I think there's
a lot of truth in what you say.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I really do, And I think, like Churchill, if and
when this is over the next election, Hamas rather Netna,
who either will not stand for reelection or he would
be defeated, I think. But that was the fate of
Churchill as well. But without without Churchill, most of us
(07:34):
might be speaking a German dialect these days, in my opinion,
if England had rolled over while we were sleeping. But
we'll save that for another night, Jeff, Let's do this.
Let's invite people to call, and maybe people can focus
on the potential of a positive result here. I mean,
(07:55):
get Hamas out of there, don't allow them to take
their weapons with them. I guess you could have some
sort of a compromise where they could have their weapons
shipped separately to wherever they were going.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
But I just.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
One moment I think, Yeah, this is going to work,
and then another moment I think it's not going to work.
And if it's not going to work, let's get it
over with because enough people have suffered along hope. I
hope that this doesn't go on for weeks or for
that matter of months. I hope that if it becomes
apparent that they don't want to surrender, I think ya,
(08:43):
who has to be allowed to do what I think
he's willing to do and what the idea of forces
are willing to do. We'll see what people think. My
guest is Jeff Robbins. My opinions are my opinions. Jeff's
opinions are his, and some of those opinions we agree upon,
or we may in part whatever.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Uh. Either way, don't mix the opinions up.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Generally, I think we're on.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
The same side of most of the argument here, and
I trust most of you are as well. So if
you feel that somehow you want to engage in a conversation,
that's great. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty. This is
not a pleasant topic to think about because it was
(09:30):
a horrific moment in time when israel guard was down
and civilians were butchered, literally butchered by him. As somehow,
some way Israel has survived. They have always survived, and
hopefully this can get resolved without any further bloodshed. But
(09:51):
I'm not convinced we are at that point yet. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten
thirty back with your phone call. As I've said before,
great topics. Jeff is a great guest. This is a
tough topic, but it's a great topic. Ad callers and
stir back on nights Side.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Jim from Texas, if you're listening, give us a call back.
You are going to be the first s up. I
don't think I've ever had you as a caller before.
Unfortunately we lost you all you dropped off. So give
us a call back and we will get you on
six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty very quickly, Jeff,
if I can, in your opinion, In your opinion, how
long does the United States and does Israel allow these
(10:41):
negotiations to go on?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Is there an out time?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Do you think that they have that they have made
is clear to the Hamas negotiators.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
I think that the decision on that is going to
be made by President Trump, and that Israel is going
to have to buy by the decision made by President
Trump under the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So if if if Trump says, look, they have until
you know, midnight Friday or whatever, that that then would
allow Prime Minister that now Yahoo to do what he
feels maybe necessary to do. So yeah, okay, And and
just to handicap it here, if if the best solution
(11:27):
is Hamas lies out, lays down its arms, uh and
has given safe passage out of Gaza, which I know
is a big ask and is you know, is not.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
For sure, what sort.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Of a h on a percentage chances would you give
that happening which would be the best resolution for everyone,
for the Gossen people, for the for the fighters from
Hamas who are still alive, and for the idea of
what what do you think that that chance of that
is much much under.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Under ten percent. I don't see Hamas agreeing to disarm
or disarming, even if they say they're to disarm, and
I don't see them, you know, the those leaders that
are still that are on the ground in Gaza. Uh
leaving Gaza.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Okay, Well that's.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I was afraid you would to say that, let's get
a phone, let's go to phone calls. We we missed
a gym in Texas, but I do have Arnold in Milwaukee. Arnold,
Welcome to Night's Side. You're on with Jeff Robbins.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Go right ahead, ye Dan hi, Jeff, I appreciate you
having me on. I called in ale while Bet when
we were talking about the MTAs blaytant anti Semitism they're
handing out to teachers. I work in an organization called
Parents for Peace, where we coach families who have radicalized
loved ones regarding ways to get that person on a
(12:49):
better path. We also work directly with the radicalized individuals
to help them find a healthier way to live their life.
And I I'm by no means an expert on what's
happening on the ground in Israel and Gaza, but obviously
that situation is affecting everybody here in the States. And
(13:11):
the reason I'm covering is I just want to make
the statement that anti Semitism, first and foremost harms Jewish people,
and for that reason alone, all of us in civil
society need to organize against it and find a way
to counter it. But a lot of people don't understand
is that anti Semitism actually harms the anti Semites as well.
(13:34):
Our caseloaded parents for Peace involves all sorts of families
from all over North America, most of whom are not Jewish,
and most of whom have zero ties to Jewish people whatsoever.
But these families have been devastated by a loved one
falling under the influence of anti Semitic, hateful ideology. And
(13:56):
it's important to understand that all of these Prohamas protests
that are happening. I understand, one blew up in the
commons tonight. I hope the police officers involved are okay,
But but all this excuse me.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
When you when you when you say one blew up,
I assume you were referring to the Boston common singular.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Was there? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (14:19):
Yeah, is there nothing the protests blew up in the
figurative sense, not necessarily an explosive device.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
No, no, no, right, okay, I just wanted to clarify that.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And when you said you hope none of the police,
what you're saying is was the demonstration and hopefully everybody
behaved themselves, got a chance to exercise their First Amendment
rights and went home.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
The people that you're dealing with primarily UH families whose
whose kids or whose members have become radicalized and have
become virulently anti Israel and anti Semitic.
Speaker 6 (14:52):
Yes, that that is a common thread for almost all
of our cases. And we handle all violent extremist narratives,
everything from white nationalism to Islamism, to Antifa to humas
and all of those violent extreamist ideologies. If it was
a venn diagram, they all overlapped on anti semitism and
(15:14):
hatred of Jews.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
And now you how successful are you with bringing people,
you know, out of those dark areas and a lot
of dark areas in the web and bringing them back
to a more rational point of view.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
We're we're fairly successful. I'd say we probably got a
success rate of about seventy percent. There's some that, unfortunately
we just can't help a lot of times, if the
entire family is in that shape, it's hard to get
everybody on a healthier path together, although we have been
able to do that, but we really look at it
(15:53):
as a recovery process, and we treat hate as an addiction,
but we focus on anti Semitism because anti Semitism is
far and away, like the opiate strength and all of
the addictive by an extremist ideologies. It's really just brilling
people's lives, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I want to get Jeff to comment on this. I
think I recall the conversation I had with Arnold in
the past, but I don't know that there are a
lot of organization like this around the country. I think
there's probably a need for them. Your thoughts, Jeff on this,
Have you heard of groups like this?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Well?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I have very much heard of Parents for Peace. There
a terrific organization and they do heroic, very well thought
out work around the country. So it's it's great to
get a call from him. They you know. One of
the interesting things is that Parents for Peace work a
lot with with with wisdom families obviously who have kids
(16:52):
or loved ones who have been radicalized. And one of
the aspects of just how awful this situation that he
describes is is the intimidation that is visited upon Muslim
moderates who try to fight back against anti semitism. It's
a real problem and more broadly, you know the problem
(17:14):
that the caller speaks of, and you and I have
talked about it, Dan, this really diseased, hate filled, vitriolic
viciousness that began or that was evident on the after
by the afternoon of October seventh, twenty twenty three, where
there already demonstrations against Israel, supposedly for being to blame
(17:37):
for October for the massacre, or defending it or exalting
at it. And for the last two years we've seen
this really take roots. So congratulations to parents for peace
and for all those who are trying to and Dan,
nobody more than you who are trying to shine a
light on the viciousness the insanity that has ensued since
(17:58):
October seventh.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Well, what of the things about anti Semitism.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I'm not an expert on it by any stretch of
the imagination, but it seems to me that the anti
Semite always goes back to these blood libels. Well, you know,
they if you press them and why do you hate
Jewish people or why do you hate Israel?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
And they conflate Jewish people with Israel.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Although there are many Jewish people who are not supportive
of the Israeli government at any given time.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
But they'll come back to, well, they run the bank,
so they run this or they run that.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It's always they they they they they somehow that has
been implanted in people's minds. And I think that's the
forerunner if you can condition people. And I don't know,
I'd love to see if Arnold agrees with me on
that that this thought of well, this group has greater
power than their population would would justify.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Do you know what I'm saying when I suggest that, Arnold,
and how far off am I?
Speaker 5 (19:01):
No?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
I figure spot on Dan and this. I do this
work because thirty years ago I was a white nationalist skinhead,
and I used my lived experience knowing how people fall
under the influence of these ideologies and also how to
get them out, to hopefully do my job better in
this context. But you made a great point, and that
(19:23):
point is is that all of these anti Semitic tropes
about running the banks, running the media, controlling the government,
controlling the weather, they all go back to a hax forged,
plagiarized document called the Protocols of Zion, which originated around
the turn of the twentieth century. From the nineteenth twentieth
(19:47):
century in Russia, and it went from the Tsaris to
the Bolsheviks, to the Nazis, to the Stalinists, to the
disinformation campaign led by the USSR in the nineteen sixties
Flannder Israel, and all of this anti so called anti
Zionism that we hear nowadays, which is just anti Semitism repackage,
(20:08):
can be traced directly back to this fake hulks plagiarized document,
the Protocols of Zion.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Well, Arnold, you're doing great work.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Thanks for checking in with us every once in a while,
and we do talk about this issue and hopefully we
can talk about it in the next few days and
that at least temporarily peace will be restored. Thank you
so much for your call, and thank you for the
work you do with Parents for Peace. If folks want
to get in touch with Parents for Peace, I assume
it's Parents for Peace dot org as a website.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Yeah, Parents four peace dot org with the number four.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Okay, well, that makes a difference, parents the numeral four
for Peace dot org. Arnold, thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
Thank you guys.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Jeff.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
We'll continue on here. I got a break for news again.
I know at this time. It's early morning in the
Middle East, so we're not going to be surprised with
any breakthrough tonight while we're on the air, So we'll
just assume we're talking about the status growth. The negotiations
will continue in a few hours and hopefully maybe tomorrow
(21:14):
will be the day that there will be a breakthrough.
My guest is Jeff Robbins. He's an attorney, first Amendment attorney,
deals in all sorts of critical issues, great experience in government,
representing our country at the United Nations. Also was a
representative of the Clinton administration. He practices law here in Boston,
(21:37):
and of course you know him also as a columnist
for the Boston Herald. Love to hear from my listeners
tonight the hopes that I know many of you share.
Feel free to lend you a voice to this call
and that maybe, somehow, some way things will turn around
in the next couple of days. So the next few days,
(21:58):
because frankly, if Hamas digs their heels in there, there's
options that I think are there. And if Hamas has
learned nothing, they should have seen what happened to the
Iranian nuclear program. President Trump threatened something and he acted
(22:18):
it was quite a gamble, but I think he won
on that, and I think that in this case it
will be the idea which will be authorized to finish
the job. Back on Nightside only line right now is
six one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Feel free to join the conversation. Coming right back.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Back to the phone to go. Let me go to
Sarah in Boston. Sarah, you are next on nights Side
with Jeff Robbins.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
Go ahead, Sarah, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 7 (22:52):
Thanks so much for having me on. I should say
I'm a director of advocacy at ADL, but I'm calling
tonight really just in my personal capacity as a Jew
who has experienced the unbel unbelievable life changing impacts of
ten to seven. I just want to note, like your
last caller, I am really not in a position to
(23:13):
speak with any authority on the best way forward to
achieve peace. I wish that many others, the armchair experts
would perhaps have a little bit of humility in that
regard as well. And I think it's really interesting though
that a lot of the people who have been screaming
from the rooftops that Israel was committing genocide even before
(23:34):
ten seven. That was a claim. We're also urging Hamas
not to accept this deal and continue to protest now,
notwithstanding the position where we were on the cusp of
potentially having a peace deal. But I did want to
just share some reflections on the day. You know, October
seventh is an open wound for this community. How could
(23:58):
we possibly begin to heal or even process the horrors
that were inflicted on that day when we were immediately
facing this avalanche of hate. I have just been so
shocked by what, you know, what appears to be almost
Holocaust denial in real time. Hamas posted the videos. People
(24:19):
are either these folks are either denying it or saying
some version of that we deserved it or Israel deserved it.
Those people and those families that were kid killed deserves it.
And I, like I will never get used to reading
articles that, you know, any articles on this topic that
will start with, you know, the horrors of ten to
seven and the anti Semitism that followed, and that that's
(24:44):
such a it's such a logical problem, right and and
we're also used to it at this point. But if
you pause for a second and consider that the Jewish
community suffered the worst horrors, the worst slaughter, barbaric slaughter
since the Holocaust, on ten to seven, and the reaction
wasn't the world wrapping its arms around us. The reaction
(25:07):
was more hate coming at us. And so I think
for many in our community, our lives just haven't been
the same and they will not. They certainly can't move forward.
We can't move forward until the remaining hostages are returned
home and until this brutal war ends, which Israel didn't
(25:27):
ask for, Israel didn't want, and none of us want.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I kind of imagine what I kind of imagine what
it would be like. I'm not Jewish, but I kind
of imagine what it would be like to see this,
this horrific, this horror played over and over again historically,
you know, whether it again was you know, the programs,
or the Holocaust or this. I read something yesterday that
(25:55):
this is a name from the past that no one
is probably going to remember. But forty years ago yesterday
I read one of those what happened on this day
the Achille Laurel. The boat was taken over, and there
was a Jewish American named Leon Klinghoffer who was in
a wheelchair and he was pushed off the boat. He
(26:16):
was there with his wife by these terrorists in just
to die in the ocean. And the cruelty that the
Jewish people over centuries have had to endure at the
hands of anti semits. To think that your children and
your grandchildren, it doesn't seem to ever want to end,
(26:38):
do you know the point of trying.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
To make it, It really doesn't. It really doesn't. So
my grandparents were Holocaust survivors. They both lost their entire
families pretty much. My grandfather saved my grandmother. He also
saved over a thousand other Jews, smuggling them over into
relative safety. But it's remarkable that in an a of
(27:00):
information that we live in, with access to so much,
and you and as you sort of suggested, you could
pretty much open you know, a chapter at any point
in history and see these things going on and see
what results from them. And it's never it's obviously never
good for the Jews, but it's it's it threatens all
of us. It never ends well, and somehow we still
(27:22):
face this denial. And I think there are there are
a few things as upsetting to me as has been
the feeling that we have to fight to simply be seen,
and all of you know, the sort of progressive ideology
which I very much subscribe to, like my whole life,
my whole adult life, thrown out the window when it
(27:45):
comes to our suffering and our pain, being made to
feel that we're taking up too much space by even
naming what we're experiencing, and the sense that we have
to beg for scraps of acknowledgment of our our humanity,
beg our elected leaders to simply acknowledge when we all
know the facts, which is that if any other community
(28:07):
were being targeted, and even a fraction of the ways
that our community has been, we would be hearing about
it constantly. There would be there would be memes, there
would be slogans, there would be all manner of support
coming through. And instead, the Jews have to look to
each other to give comfort to each other. And I
(28:29):
am grateful for that, and it is a privilege to
be able to work with and for my community. But
we are, and I would and you know, present company excluded.
We do have allies, and I am so grateful for
the ones we have, but we have far too few.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Well, I said that to be honest with you, and
it's frustrating. Jeff and I have talked about that many times.
I just don't understand why there's group people who you know,
went to the desert built a.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Thriving economy in the Middle East, something that other nations.
And I think Donald Trump is smart.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Enough to recognize that and is basically saying to other
Arab nations where people are legitimate, you know, look, you
can you can improve, you can be like Israel. And
and maybe it's the economic message that will that will
break through in the Middle East and then back here.
But I just think that there's been so much said, uh,
(29:34):
you know, over the years, and that people have have
haven't allowed to be implanted in their minds, and it's.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's frightening. Alan, you're you're my guest.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Sarah is so eloquent here your comment on on her comments,
I'm I'm not.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I'm without words here. She was so eloquent.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Well, obviously it's very moving to hear this from Sarah
and and I couldn't agree more. And you know, on
the begging for scraps front imagion, imagine within hours of
the while body fragments were still being collected, in southern Israel,
(30:17):
that they're basically are professors exulting in this, celebrating and
cheering it on, saying it's inspirational.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Look, well you're talking about that.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You're talking about that guy at Cornell who was merely suspended.
He said he felt exhilarated by what he saw. How
could he feel exhilarate? How could he use that word?
He's an intelligent man. They'll be like saying that that
that someone who was a virulent white racist was exhilarated
because they saw a movie about a black person being
(30:46):
lynched in the in the in the.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Post bell himself. And yet he's still on the faculty
at Cornell.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Yeah, and you've got thirty four student organizations at Harvard
that within hours blamed Israel for it. You had Democratic
Socials of America rallies, You had rallies all over the
place talking about how it was resistance. You had in
the weeks that followed, people all over America God help us,
and elsewhere in the world ripping down posters simply asking
(31:17):
that young people are old people who were in gos
and tunnels be remembered. How do you get wrap your
arms around that? All you can do is say that
there's a disease and you, you have been good enough,
wonderful enough, then so constantly, relentlessly shine a spotlight on it.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, my honor and my pleasure of someone who's not Jewish.
People say to me, as I've said on this radio
station before, well you know Jewish, welcome you so pro Israel.
How come you so pro Jewish? I said, Well, the
guy who found it my religion happened to be Jewish,
his parents were Jewish, and that kind of stuns him.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Folks, I got to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I got Jamie and Sharon coming up in Joe and Weston,
and if there's a couple more they want to join
the converse station. Sarah, thank you for your eloquence tonight
and your passion. By the way, you're justifiable passion.
Speaker 7 (32:06):
Thank you, my pleasure, and thank you for your allyship.
It means so much my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
My pleasure, my duty. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Take a quick break back with Jeff Robbins. Join the conversation.
Jeff will stay with us two eleven. I'm more than
happy to talk about this into the eleven o'clock hour,
because I think if we can't rally for Israel after
what they have gone through?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Who will we ever rally for? Simple as that?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And if you're sitting home and you agree with us,
feel free to pick up the phone and add your
voice to the chorus. Silence is not golden in this situation.
Silence can be described by some people as sort of
tacit approval of what happened two years ago.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Today, back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Let's keep I'm going to try to move the college
just a little bit more quickly, Jamie and Sharon Jamie
next time NIGHTSIG right ahead, Hi.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
Dane, I want to first thank you for doing this
tonight on what is a very painful anniversary for many
of us in the Jewish community. I don't know that
I can be as eloquent as as your previous caller,
Sarah was, or or your guests, but I don't think
(33:32):
people really understand how painful it is for many of us.
We don't necessarily talk about it, you know, with our
work colleagues and friends who aren't Jewish. We tend to
really talk feel more comfortable talking within the Jewish community,
(33:55):
and it's really hard for me to imagine all the
pain that many college students who are Jewish have endured
over the last few years.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
But I also think, you know, in all honesty, Jamie,
that you calling tonight is important because a lot of
people who don't know you will hear the authenticity and
the passion and the pain in your voice as we
heard from Sarah, and people can ignore it. They don't
you know, they may not have people who will discuss
(34:32):
it with them. I always want this program to be
accessible and available to fight against anti Semitism. My dad
was in World War Two and he told me back
in the day, never forget what happened in the Holocaust.
That was what was taught at our dinner table. And
I visited Auschwitz in nineteen eighty six and did TV
(34:55):
reports from there, and it had a tremendous impact.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
It reinforced everything my father had said to me.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
So, yeah, that's wonderful. I think what's the scariest for
many of us is, you know what our children and
grandchildren are having to deal with in school, and you know,
where does it come from. Clearly they learn it from
somewhere else, and they learn it at home, and you know, Unfortunately,
(35:27):
there are some professors, as you've just spoken about, and
some teachers in our k through twelve systems who you know,
are advocates. I think they're advocating on behalf of all
human rights. But they're choosing, and they're choosing to be political,
(35:48):
and they're choosing to try and you know, brainwash children.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And that will I will also say this, and you
have no way of knowing this, but as a Catholic
who is in perfect in so many ways, I do
go to church, and I do not hear from the
pulpit of the Catholic churches that I've gone to anywhere
near the amount of support for Israel and for the victimization,
(36:14):
you know, a criticism of what happened. I don't hear
that from Catholic Church pulpits. And it disappoints me because
I grew up at a time when anti Semitism was
I heard a lot of those jokes as a kid,
and I filed them away in my mind. And the
Catholic Church talks a lot about things like social justice,
(36:35):
but they don't talk about justice for Israel. And that
is an element that is missing from Catholic theology today.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
In my opinion.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
Well, that's that's really awful to hear. I'm shocked and
sorry to hear it. I do think there are some churches.
I don't think it's the Catholic churches. I think it's
tends to be Protestant, you know, very liberal churches that
(37:05):
are very you.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Know, progressive, progressive right. They're progressive right, and but for
some reason Israel gets a pass and uh right. And look,
I don't go to Protestant churches. I can only speak
about Catholic churches. But I and I've talked to Jeff
about this privately, and I just thought to know, I'm
going to say it publicly.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
And I really don't care.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
And if there are people out there who think I
am criticizing my religion, I'm criticizing the leadership of my religion.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
Well, I think I think we have a lot to
ask of all of our leaders, are religious leaders, and
you know, all of our civic and political leaders these days,
to to really try and you know, teach love and
not hatred.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
It's just so, and and identify the difference. There was
no administered to Jewish to Israeli's on the on the
morning of October seventh, it was nothing but unadulterated hatred. Uh,
and some have not been able to bring themselves even
to understand that, Jamie, I got to run here. Thank
you so much. I hope you'll continue to listen to
(38:16):
my show and call my.
Speaker 5 (38:17):
Show off a thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
You're welcome, Jeff, as always, thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
The call has kind of took over in the last
half hour, which is a tribute to you. You got
you got them going, and I'm going to continue into
the next hour.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
My friend, let us go.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
For doing this my pleasure, my pleasure, you know what
it it's the right thing to do. Wow, there's no no, uh,
there's no other choice, Jeff. I mean it's clear. It's
clear you're you're either with the light or with darkness.
And and I think Israel is the light, and that's
what I believe. We will talk soon and we'll continue
(38:54):
into the next hour, Jeff. Hopefully there'll be a time
later this week, early next week where we can celebrate peace.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Peace, we'll see.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
You're very welcome, Jeff. Thank you so much to Eileen
and John and Joe and Bob. Stay there.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
The only line opened six point seven two five, four
ten thirty. Let's light them up. If you agree with me, fine,
If you disagree with me fine uh. And if you're
out there and you're a practicing Catholic and you feel
that what I said is off base, feel free. And
if you feel it's on the money, feel free. Back
on Night's side after this
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