January 29, 2026 • 39 mins
Massachusetts State Senator Bill Driscoll Jr. has identified more than $9.7 Million and counting in exclusive funding intended for gateway municipalities provided to cities or towns that no longer meet the legal criteria to be considered a gateway municipality under Massachusetts general laws. The senator has also uncovered data showing multiple communities in MA that qualify for gateway municipality status but has never been included in the initiative. Sen. Driscoll has been exploring possible legislative changes to the state’s gateway municipality designation for years and joined us to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice eyes with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you very much, Dan Watkins. I had a chance
to chat with Dan earlier. Tonight. We will be talking
with Dan Shaughnessey the Boston Globe about I think that
a really classless act by the NFL Hall of Fame
Committee excluding Bill Belichick. I mean, come on, the guy
may not be missed a personality. But we'll talk with
(00:27):
Dan Shaughnessy about that at at ten oh five tonight.
This hour, we are going to talk with Massachusetts state
Senator William Driscoll. He represents what's called Norfolk, Plymouth and
Bristol District, which means he probably has part or maybe
all of Norfolk, Plymouth and Bristol counties. That's not the
(00:50):
way most people know who their state senators are. So
first of all, Senator Driscoll, welcome back to night's side.
Let's start off with the commune unities, the towns. We're
a city in town state, did you represent? Go right ahead?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Thanks Dan, thanks for having me back. It's great to
be with you again. Yeah. So I represent seven towns, Braintree, Milton, Randolph, Stoughton, Easton, Bridgewater,
and West Bridgewater.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And you represent the entirety of those towns.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, most of I got nine out of twelve precincts
in Braintree. I've got about half of Randolph that I
share with Senator Brady and the rest of the time
they have the full towns.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Great, okay, Well that for our listeners, they now know
that you're the state senator if they're listening. And before that,
you spent eight years in the House representing which communities?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
So I live in Milton and represented most of the
town of Milton and most of the town of Randolph
for eight years as a Rep.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
All right, So how did you get interested in this
whole question of the gateway cities? And now I guess
they're called gateway municipalities. We'll explain what they are. But
what peaked your interest in this?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So when I started as a state rep back in
twenty seventeen, Randolph one of those communities that I still
represent and represented. Then I sat down with them and
one of the things they brought up to me pretty
early on as a new legislator was we are right
on the cost. Randolph at the time, back in twenty
seventeen was right on the cost of qualifying to be
(02:33):
considered to be designated a gateway municipality. And so at
the time, I think we thought that we were going
to have to wait for the twenty twenty census. You know,
there's a US Federal Census Bureau does a census every
ten years that everyone's probably familiar with, and we thought
that that they were right on the edge of one
(02:56):
of the qualifiers is thirty five thousand people at least
inside the municipality, and they were just under that. They
were like thirty four or five essentially, and we thought
it was pretty reasonable that they would surpass thirty five
thousand at the next count And so we started looking
into what it would mean and what it would take
(03:17):
to be designated a gateway, and then also what what
might come along with that in terms of different funding
opportunities or the government opportunities.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Just to put it in perspective, we have three hundred
and fifty one cities in towns in Massachusetts, big cities
like Boston and Worcester and Springfield, and then there were
some of the small towns you know down on the
down on the island, on Mart's Viney Dy, of some
small communities out in the Berkshires. So there's there's a broad,
broad spectrum. But if you had to characterize just informally
(03:51):
what a gateway municipality, I know there's there's some categories
of characteristics that they have to meet or exceed, but
these are these are good sized communities who need some
funding help, and they also tend to be communities that
are not the richest communities in Massachusetts. Just as an overview,
(04:11):
can we agree on that?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah? And I can give even some further backstory, Yeah,
because I think there's two there's two ways to look
at this, and you're hitting it right on. There's the
mass General Law, which has three qualifiers in it, which
we'll get into in terms of what you have to
kind of hit to qualify legally. And then there's the
overall sentiment around being a gateway municipality. And it actually
(04:37):
comes out of a mass Ink White paper report from
back in two thousand and seven where they looked at
what can best be described as former mill towns. You know,
places that are outside of Boston in Massachusetts that were
once hubs for a lot of activity, different mills, factories,
(05:01):
and are still kind of you know, either still or
could once become again regional centers of activity and economic development.
And so that was the the initial concept was how
could the state look at investing in former male towns
to bring back population, bring back jobs, be a place
(05:21):
where people could start a family, start a job that's
outside of our major our major cities.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Okay, and the characteristics that actually qualifies one of these communities.
I guess there are three characteristics and why an't you
run them by us?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah? So Gayway municipality is a designation that's defined in
the Mass General Law. And the three qualifiers. You have
to have a population greater than thirty five thousand, but
less than two hundred and fifty thousand. The next qualification
is a median household in below the Commonwealth's average, and
(06:03):
the third is a rate of educational attainment of a
bachelor's degree or above that is below the Commonwealth's average.
So you have to hit as a town or a
city that's above thirty five thousand. You have to hit
all three. You can't hit two out of three. The
law has those three qualified.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Okay. So for example, the city in which I live
has about eighty thousand people, but it is it's one
of the more affluent communities in Massachusetts, so it qualifies
on population. But I'm sure that the median household income
in Newton, Massachusetts is not below the state average, so
(06:45):
therefore they would not be they would be disqualified as
being considered a gateway city.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I assume that's right. Yeah, they would not as defined
by the law, they would not.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Be in So give us a few I'm thinking of,
is what I'm thinking. I'm thinking cities like new Bedford,
fall River, Rockton, Lowell, maybe Lynne. Have I hit a
few of the gateway cities just there?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Or yeah? I believe all the above.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
All of the above. What about Lawrence?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Lawrence is on my list.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, why don't you hit us with a few more
so people will know what cities. There were only twenty
six that had these three qualifications, in addition to the
ones that I just guessed at.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, so Worcester, you know you mentioned wester earlier. Worcester's
on there because they're below the two hundred and fifty
thousand populations.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, although, by the way, Worcester is the second largest
city not only in Massachusetts but in New England.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
That's right. We also have Fitchburg, Yep, Holy Yoke, Chicka
Bee Chelsea and taunting Westfield Springfield another big one, but
below two and fifty thousand. And you know, generally, once
(08:11):
upon a time they had an industry there that you know,
really centered at everything around it, okay, but may not
be the same in today's economy.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Okay. So now we've defined what we're talking about. When
we get back, I want to talk about the problem
that you have identified and what can be done to
rectify it. And if people want to call in, I'm
in studio tonight, which for me, I haven't been in
studio for a couple of years. No, And I can
actually see rob and it's there are televisions surrounding me here.
(08:42):
So I'm a little energized, and I hope all of
you are as well. This is a serious issue, and
I and I think if you stick with us, you'll
learn a lot about Massachusetts and maybe some some reforms
that can be implemented which will benefit people who should
be qualifying in these in these particular communities. My guest
(09:03):
is Massachusetts State Senator William Bill Driscoll, who, as we've
mentioned before, represents several south Shore communities hometown of Milton.
Back on Nightside Here are the numbers if you have
a question or a comment six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
thirty six, one seven, nine, three thirty. Back right after
this on Nightside, It's.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
We are joined by Massachusetts State Senator Bill Driscoll William
Driscoll of Milton. Are you want some committees up there
that that first? I know that your experience as a
state representative with Randolph, which was so close to becoming
a gateway city, But are you the committees that you're
assigned to do they have a particular interest in in
(09:53):
this issue?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
The uh? In some of them? Yeah, I mean I think, uh,
we touch a little bit of every I think certainly
one of the biggest changes of becoming a senator versus
the Rep is it's only forty senators as opposed to
one hundred and sixty reps. In some days, as one
of forty, it feels like I'm on every single committee
with all the hearings we have to go to. But
(10:17):
I think people you know might know me from back
in COVID nineteen peaks. I was the House chair of
the COVID nineteen Emergency Preparedness and Management Committee, and so
we ran the oversight hearings back when Governor Baker was
appearing before things, you know, when the vaccine website broke
(10:39):
and all that.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Oh, I remember it well. I remember I was not
a great role out, that's for sure. Okay, So so
you got involved in this, you got interested, and I
don't know how much staff you have, but how much
work you've done a lot of work on this issue.
And what's the motivation?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
What is yeah? What is yeah? Yeah, it's great. I've
got a great staff. Matt Murphy on myself in particular,
has been doing a great job and encrunching the numbers
as we dig into this. And so part of the
motivation here is that we need greater accountability and a
revamp of the Gateway municipality statue. And the reason I
say that is because I mentioned the story of how
(11:20):
the origin story here is we looked into it for
Randolph starting back in twenty seventeen. And one of the
natural questions as a legislator to get pulled in a
lot of directions, So you have to make sure you
trying to spend your time wisely, what would it get us?
What would be available to a town that's a gateway
or a city that's a gateway. And so it's the
(11:40):
answer is that there's different grants and tax credits that
are either given a gateway city is given preferential treatment
and that application or exclusive access to funding for early
education in pre K. There's some grants for planting trees
or enhancing park space other projects as well. And so
(12:04):
as you started to look into this, the list right
now is twenty six gateway communities officially if you go
on a state website or you go on mass incs
website that group that did the white paper that were
just kind of originated out of the problem is the
list is inaccurate. So those three qualifies, the population, the
(12:28):
median income, and the state average on education have changed,
as you can imagine over the last fifteen years or more,
as different census data comes out. And we've kind of
scratched our heads back in twenty one after the twenty
twenty census data was released, why didn't the gateway list change?
And I can tell you definitively right now there are
(12:49):
twenty six communities that officially meet the statute. But the
three that are wrong, this three that should be on
there and I not and this three that are on
there right now, and they shouldn't be there any longer.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
But they and those numbers, the three that should be
on and the three that should be off. It isn't
as if the number is locked at twenty six. It's
not a competition. It is whether or not you qualify.
Let me ask you this, how much money in hole
in Toto is available to gateway cities? How big is
(13:24):
the pie that the twenty six gateway cities would have
access to?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Is there anyway?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So this is a This is a great question and
one of the things that women continue to dig into
it because there is not a single source we can
go and say and actually identify that. But I can
tell you that, for example, the mass Works program is
(13:50):
hundreds of million dollars a year, and depend upon the year,
half of that allocation they either set a goal or
they're mandated to spend half of it in gateway municipalities.
So we're talking like three hundred million dollars. Just in
twenty twenty four a loan was targeted at projects in
(14:14):
gateway municipalities. We're still digging into mass works, but I
can say that so far, looking at the grant programs
and the various tax credits. So there's tax threats that
are available to employers that either are creating jobs or
maintaining jobs in gateway municipalities. Across all those, we've identified
(14:39):
twenty five million dollars that has been likely sent to
communities that no longer qualify as a gateway.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Okay, so let me ask you this. I don't know
if you want to mention the names of the three
communities who have received money in your you know, as
a consequence of your study. Is the solution a quaback
for that much?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
But yeah, I think, and I think I would I
would start by saying too, So at this point, I
don't think we should clawback the money. There's the three.
There's three that should be listed and aren't. And I
think one of the things I want to make sure
that we highlight here is is that that's really unfortunate
because for at least a couple of years, if not longer,
(15:26):
these are communities that haven't had the opportunity to apply
for these grants or task creds, and they really should
have been given it.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Okay, so let's identify them, if you would be so kind.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
So we have and this is going to be interesting
too for people listening. So Weymouth and Marlborough have qualified
for a number of years each but have never been
added to the officially designated list. The third one actually highlights,
I think a problem within the qualifying formula. It's Amherst.
It qualifies because of the school or college there, you Mass, right,
(16:03):
So it throws off the educational attainment number by a
mile because again I think most people would probably agree,
but I'll just make the assumption that if you're between
eighteen and twenty four, you do not have a bachelor's
degree yet, and that Mass Amherst. There's quite a few
of those people that fit that demographic and educational attainment
(16:23):
can Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
My question, my question cenatorve, is this, why are we
why would we be considering students at U MASS in
that category of population. It seems to me that if
the student is attending U MASS and is coming from
New York or Connecticut, they're not Massachusetts residents, that their
(16:47):
presence there should not be counted. And if there's someone
who lives in Boston or Newton or Worcester, it shouldn't
be counted either. The only students in Amherst at U
MASS either at Amherst College or you ask Amherst, which
of course is a much bigger facility, would be people
who actually lived in Amherst. Isn't that a question? Yeah,
(17:08):
And I think that you've got to struggle with a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, I think it because I think it highlights the
greater issue, which is we need to revamp the formula.
They're not on the list and they probably shouldn't be,
whereas Marlboro and Weymouth fits some characteristics of that needing
economic development support. And in some of the communities that
have fallen off, we've got Malden. It's actually four now
(17:36):
that I look at it, So it's Malden, Mithu and
Quinsy and Salem are on the list technically today if
you go and search for it, you know it's on
the mass doc of site. It's on the mass inc site.
And so it's something that I filed part part of
the way I think has happened.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Here.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
You can tell me how we are in time as
we go.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I'm getting close to nine thirty years, So let's posit
in this and we'll come back and expand on this.
And also i'd like to hear from listeners. It seems
to me, I'm agreeing with you totally, and I think
it's to make it even more interesting that a town
like Amherst, which is really an affluent town, when you
consider the people who live there full time, and you
(18:22):
eliminate the students who don't live there, they're only partially
during the year. They don't live there. Even when you're
a U massa Amherst student, you're not living there twelve
months a year. You're not living there nine or ten
months a year. And I think that communities like Malden
and Methuen, and I don't know what their problem is,
(18:44):
but those are communities that can still need some help,
Quinsy and Salem less so, but I'd rather see Quinsy, Salem,
Methuin and Maldan getting some help than Amherst. Now, I
know that's a subjective judgment, so I want to talk
about that, and I hope that some callers will join
this conversation because there are tax dollars that are at
(19:05):
stake here. Let me give you a break for a
couple of minutes. We got to do a newscast. This
is this is becoming more interesting to me as we
talk about it, and I can understand how you could
really find yourself entrapped in this because it's real money
and it's people's lives that are impacted. Six one seven,
(19:25):
four thirty six one seven nine three, one ten thirty. Jeff,
it's called join the conversation back on Nightside with Massachusetts
State Senator William Driscoll. Bill Driscoll, You're.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
On night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
We're talking about Massachusetts Gateway communities or Massachusetts Gateway municipalities.
Right now, there are twenty six gateway municipalities or gateway
cities in Massachusetts. There are three characteristics which qualifies a
city for additional financial support. Your population has to be
(20:05):
between thirty five thousand and two hundred and fifty thousand,
so Boston would not be considered, but virtually any major
city in Massachusetts would be, including Worcester and Springfield. The
median household income of your people in your community must
be below the state average, and the rate of bachelor
(20:27):
degrees or above has to be below a certain percentage.
We have, however, three communities that it should well, there
are two communities that should be added, I think Weymouth
and Marlborough they are both middle sized cities. Iam Heerst,
(20:49):
because of a kind of a quirky judgment, is currently
on the list. But there are four cities that I
think would qualify. And Senator to Driscoll, I don't know
if he thinks they should qualify, but under the specifics
(21:09):
of the law, they would qualify. And Senator you said
they will mauld and Methu and Quincy and Salem. Correct.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, So those four are currently on the list today
if you look it up as being designated a gateway municipality,
but at various points along the way here since twenty ten,
they have fallen off. They were once on and fell off,
or in the case of a place like Maldon and
(21:36):
massouin the US CENTSUS Bureau puts out a couple of
different data products, and one of them is annually and
Maul and Mathou and kind of toggle in one year
and then follow out the next year, and toggle in
one year and follow the next year and again. That
tells me, you know, the greater conversation here is that
we need to revisit the law and what qualifies people,
(21:58):
because I'm certainly not advocating that if you fall out
one year, you're done. Yeah, and I think that we Yeah,
I think the local officials, you know, they need the
ability to budget and plan. And so I don't know
exactly what the right threshold is, but it's probably not
one year and one year out. Could be three years
of five years, you know, looking at the data that
(22:19):
kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But okay, so so yes, just so that that I
haven't confused my audience. Okay, of the twenty six now
that are on the list, is Maldon Withthuin, Quinsy and
Salem on the list? Or are they not on the list?
Speaker 1 (22:35):
They are on the list.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
They're on the list.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
They're on the list that they technically okay, technically not all.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Okay, Well, I think what they should do is make it.
Since since the census is every ten years, the National Census,
I think that you know, there should be a five
year check maybe halfway through, you know, and if if
they're falling off five years, fine, and then you want
to you would like to see at least two cities.
He's added communities added Weymouth and Marlborough, but technically Amherst
(23:05):
would qualify under the color and circumstances, which to me
seems crazy. Why would it not be possible, Senator to
amend the law and just say that, you know that
obviously Amherst with Amherst College and UH and U mass Amherst,
(23:26):
those are big student populations. Can't they say that student
populations should not, you know, be considered that if the
student lives in you know, Lawrence, is going to U
mass Amherst, that he or she should be counted as
a resident of Lawrence, which probably needs some additional financial
(23:50):
support from the state a heck of a lot more
than Amherst does.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, and yeah, and if you allow me too, would
like to back up a little bit because I think
no matter where we land and terms of the next
version and iteration of the qualifiers and the law, we
have to make sure that somebody is paying attention to
the list every year, and that has not been happening.
(24:13):
So the last time that we've found that the list
changed that twenty six communities designated change was twenty thirteen
during the Patrick Devell Patrick administration. Governor Patrick Attelborrow and
Peabody were added to the list. So it when from
twenty four to twenty six and it has not changed since,
(24:35):
and I don't have to tell you what the list
has that demographics have changed since. And so the Economic
Development secretaries, you know, seems very active between twenty twenty
ten when this all began in law in twenty thirteen,
but have not been monitoring it since. And the other
entity that I want to make sure that we mentioned
(24:57):
is again mas Sink, who wrote the first white Paper
report to name those old mill towns that needed more
economic development. So their list started I think around seven,
and by the time my colleagues, my predecessors, and the
legislature put this into law, you know, we were at
twenty four by defining it for those three qualifiers. Massing
(25:23):
convenes conferences of gateway cities and gateway leaders. They produce
news products and different things. In fact, they own and
manage Conwell Peacon which ran a story back on January ninth.
I'll reach you the headline Beacon Hill hasn't kept track
of which communities qualify for Gateway city status. So I
(25:49):
agree and disagree with this. I take issue as a
legislator because I am paying attention, but I would I
would add the I think Massink has made itself the
indisputable authority on gateways, and they shouldn't they should include
themselves in this headline. It really wasn't until that January
(26:10):
ninth story that it appeared they understood that the list
was inaccurate. That's been republished over and over again again.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Some people might say, well, this is you know, you're
you're counting the number of angels that can fit in
the head of a pin. That's not so. There's real
money at stake here, real programs and real benefits, and
benefits should go to the communities that need the benefits.
Let us do this center. Let's get the phone calls
going here and Rob I'm gonna I'll bring this this
(26:43):
one up. Let me go to Peter, just like the
old time.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Rob.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Here we go going to get Peter in Gloucester calling Hi, Peter,
welcome you are first this hour and night side. How
are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Good? Thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, before I just need to get is I need
to find out from my guest is Gloucester a gateway city?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Senator Gloucester is not on my list? Okay, and doesn't
appear like it would qualify at this point either.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
All right, Peter, if you're there, let's have you common
a question. Yeah, you go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, I was just getting out of my zoning board meeting,
and you know, we're always looking for housing and affordable
housing and how do we you know, get funding. But
revisiting those laws, Senator, makes a lot of sense because
we just fall short. I mean, our population has been declining.
(27:43):
We're roughly around thirty thousand and being in an ocean
front municipality, we have a lot of restrictions with the DPA,
and you know, just trying to rebuild our infrastructure and
continue to grow. You know, I think any funding that
the city could procure what would be beneficial. So maybe
(28:06):
revisiting those qualifications could kind of open up, you know,
more help and more funding for some of these municipalities
that are really in need of that.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So you'd like to see the population qualification. I assume
Peter dropped from the thirty five thousand maybe down to
thirty thousand. Senator, is it possible that this program could
be expanded or.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
You know, yeah, So let me say this Glocester is
not a gateway city designated right now, but what you
are designated as is a quote unquote similarly situated which
is a list that was developed after twenty eighteen the
Legislature and Economic Development Bond Bill put some money into
(28:56):
a bucket, so to speak, for mass housing, and there's
eight communities that are below that thirty five thousand threshold,
so this somewhere between seventeen thousand and thirty five, and
you're considered similarly situated. And there's actually a mass housing
grant available to Gloucester as one of the seven today.
(29:22):
But I hear you, and that's exactly what I am
talking about doing here is I think that we have
some communities that are just above the line right now
that we could invest in in just below the line,
so to speak, in terms of how gateway communities are
being defined. And I think we should really widen the
pie because there's certainly a lot of areas like Gloucester
(29:44):
and Randolph, which I represent and which started this kind
of interest for me in this topic. I would like
to carve in some additional communities as we have a
conversation and look at the law.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I'd be interested in know are you aware of that
a grant that the Senator has referred to?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
No, I wasn't, and I thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
And what about this, maybe, Senator, what we could do
is when we go to a break here in a moment,
we could give Peter a number that he could get
in someone from glossog could get in touch with you
and discuss a little bit more specifically what gloss to
is apparently entitled to and they're not.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Receiving absolutely okay, yeah and that.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
So Peter, do me a favorite stay on the line.
We got to go to a quick break here and Rob,
if you can get the senator's office number or whatever
number he wants to give you to pass on to
Peter uh before he leaves again. Peter, thanks so much
of calling. Maybe you've helped your city a little bit
here with a with a well timed phone call. Thank
(30:59):
you so much for listening to the night side as well.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Appreciate it all right, you hang in there.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Rob, you expedict that communication. I'm going to go to break.
If someone else would like to join the conversation, we
got a little bit of time left. Feel free six
one seven, two, five four ten thirty six one seven
nine three one ten thirty. We're talking about Massachusetts Gateway municipality,
cities and towns, and we're talking with Massachusetts State Senator
(31:24):
William Driscoll, who really I think understands this very well. Senator,
I deal with a lot of state representatives and senators,
and I got to tell you, you've very much impressed
me tonight with your your background and your knowledge and
your understanding of this situation. You really do get the
nuances and you have represented the State Senate remarkably well.
(31:47):
On my program tonight, we have one more segment. If
you can stick with us, we'll we'll let you go
at ten o'clock.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Okay, yeah, thanks, Dyed, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
My pleasure, My pleasure. This is a fascinating topic to me,
might not be to my audience, but this is what
government is all about, and to really drill down and
understand what's going on. And Representative Drisco, or rather Senator Driscoll,
has been extremely extremely clear in what's at stake, and
(32:16):
it's a lot of money for communities like Gloucester, where
Peter called from back on Nightside right after this, you're on.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I'm talking with Massachusetts State Senator William Driscoll. Bill Driscoll
comes from represents seven communities or parts of seven communities
on the South Shore comes from Milton, and he's done
Yeomen's work here on finding inaccuracies within the programs that
benefit Massachusetts Gateway municipalities. So where do we go from here? Senator?
(32:55):
You have done a lot of work on this, and
I must tell you I am not, you know, a
mathematical nerd or anything like that, but I do like
conversations about specific programs so we can learn about programs
that are intended to help people. And I think you
are telling us so far you have found about twenty
(33:17):
six million. Is that the number twenty six million dollars
that have been in effect misallocated? Correct from Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, we're about twenty five that we can definitively uh
okay show Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And as someone once said, a million here and a
million there, it eventually runs into some real money. So
where do you take this? I mean, obviously you have
taken it to a level here, and I think a
lot of people appreciate the work you've done. But what's
the next couple of steps, if any?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah? So, I think it's really important in the conversations
that I've had with colleagues in the legislature. It's clear
that statutory framework for this, in terms of who qualifies
and who doesn't and what we're targeting investments in, really
needs to be reopened and updated. You know, we need
to have accuracy and accountability farness that essentially the public deserves,
(34:05):
making sure that we are allocating tax dollars appropriately in
the way that we intend to do so in the
various programs. So I filed some legislation. It's you know,
it's the conversation starter. I filed it in a supplemental
budget earlier this year, and I spoke on the floor
of the Senate about and part of what one of
(34:25):
the provisions would would explicitly give the Economic Development Secretary,
no matter who that is in an administration, the charge
to monitor this list and see who is qualifying or
maybe is graduating off the list, so to speak, give
them discretion to to move and appropriately update the list
(34:47):
as time goes on. Because I really think part of
what's happened here, it's happened across multiple administrations. I don't
think it's anything you know, sinister or anything like that,
but you know, these programs, we put them in in motion,
and we really need to revisit them every ten years
or so, and I think we kind of surpassed. This
all started like an nine twenty ten era to give
(35:10):
listeners a sense of when this was codified into law.
And so here we are in twenty twenty six, and
we need to make sure that there's an office, probably
Economic Development Secretary's office in the executive branch, with that
explicit charge day in and day out to manage the
list and manage some of the programs that gateway municipalities
(35:33):
have either preferential or exclusive access to fund streams.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Well, again, we've heard recently about you know, big time
fraud in some other states. In any state budget, we
would expect that there would be some fat. This is
not fat, this is misallocation. And let's get the money
to the communities, the municipalities that deserve the money and
(36:01):
and they can do the most with it. And I
just want to say to you, thank you for your
time tonight, and thank you, thank you for the work
that you've done here. Again, this is not going to
be headline grabbing work, but I think it's really important,
particularly for people who live in a couple of communities
one Weymouth in your district, and also Marlborough that should
(36:22):
be on this list. I think you've proven that tonight.
Uh and yeah, and I just I'm very impressed, to
be really honest with you, because there's a lot of
people up there and the legislature who I am not
necessarily impressed by.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Uh. Yeah, I think you know, we talked a lot
about Amherst Amars is a great place. I think it
deserves a lot of investment. Maybe this is not the
right program, uh you know, like we said before, it
technically would fit today, but I think it's you know,
about accountability for the taxpayer and making sure that as
(36:55):
he is. You know, in the legislature, we we set
the policy and then it's implemented and operationalized by the
executive brands. And these things can happen sometimes, but it's
really about going forward, making sure that we carve some
new communities in and make sure the funding's going to
the places that we intended.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, you know, it's funny how one issue is related
to another. I don't mean to put you on the
spot here, but I'm always troubled when, either in Massachusetts
or in any state, students who come in here and
are temporary residents in Massachusetts then can vote in political elections,
congressional elections, presidential elections. They should vote in the place
(37:36):
they live, in my opinion, and similarly, here Amherst should
not get extra money from the state because they have,
you know, a substantial number or or a high population
that doesn't that doesn't count kids who haven't completed their education,
which is I think the problem here. So you know,
(37:58):
I just think that they're a lot of decisions made
at the legislators that are important, and this is an
important one. And I hope someday if we talk about
whether students in Amherst who aren't residents of Massachusetts should
be voting in Massachusetts elections. I just think that that
what you do, what your folks do up there, is
very important for the good and maybe sometimes for the
(38:21):
not so good. And I thank you. This is the
first time we've worked together on the air, and I
really was impressed, and I thank you with the amount
of here and concern that you've given to this issue. Senator,
State Senator Massachusetts State Senator William Driscoll, Thank you very much. Senator.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Thanks Dan.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
We'll talk again when we get back. We're going to
talk with old friend Dean Shaughnessy about why Bill Belichick
was not included in this year's Hall of Fame class.
I mean, there's a lot of people who don't like Belichick.
There's a lot there not to like, but it should
not prevent him from becoming a rightful member of the
Pro Football Hall of Fame at Canton, Ohio. Talk with
(39:03):
Dan Shaughnessy after the ten o'clock News
It's nice eyes with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you very much, Dan Watkins. I had a chance
to chat with Dan earlier. Tonight. We will be talking
with Dan Shaughnessey the Boston Globe about I think that
a really classless act by the NFL Hall of Fame
Committee excluding Bill Belichick. I mean, come on, the guy
may not be missed a personality. But we'll talk with
(00:27):
Dan Shaughnessy about that at at ten oh five tonight.
This hour, we are going to talk with Massachusetts state
Senator William Driscoll. He represents what's called Norfolk, Plymouth and
Bristol District, which means he probably has part or maybe
all of Norfolk, Plymouth and Bristol counties. That's not the
(00:50):
way most people know who their state senators are. So
first of all, Senator Driscoll, welcome back to night's side.
Let's start off with the commune unities, the towns. We're
a city in town state, did you represent? Go right ahead?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Thanks Dan, thanks for having me back. It's great to
be with you again. Yeah. So I represent seven towns, Braintree, Milton, Randolph, Stoughton, Easton, Bridgewater,
and West Bridgewater.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And you represent the entirety of those towns.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, most of I got nine out of twelve precincts
in Braintree. I've got about half of Randolph that I
share with Senator Brady and the rest of the time
they have the full towns.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Great, okay, Well that for our listeners, they now know
that you're the state senator if they're listening. And before that,
you spent eight years in the House representing which communities?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
So I live in Milton and represented most of the
town of Milton and most of the town of Randolph
for eight years as a Rep.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
All right, So how did you get interested in this
whole question of the gateway cities? And now I guess
they're called gateway municipalities. We'll explain what they are. But
what peaked your interest in this?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So when I started as a state rep back in
twenty seventeen, Randolph one of those communities that I still
represent and represented. Then I sat down with them and
one of the things they brought up to me pretty
early on as a new legislator was we are right
on the cost. Randolph at the time, back in twenty
seventeen was right on the cost of qualifying to be
(02:33):
considered to be designated a gateway municipality. And so at
the time, I think we thought that we were going
to have to wait for the twenty twenty census. You know,
there's a US Federal Census Bureau does a census every
ten years that everyone's probably familiar with, and we thought
that that they were right on the edge of one
(02:56):
of the qualifiers is thirty five thousand people at least
inside the municipality, and they were just under that. They
were like thirty four or five essentially, and we thought
it was pretty reasonable that they would surpass thirty five
thousand at the next count And so we started looking
into what it would mean and what it would take
(03:17):
to be designated a gateway, and then also what what
might come along with that in terms of different funding
opportunities or the government opportunities.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Just to put it in perspective, we have three hundred
and fifty one cities in towns in Massachusetts, big cities
like Boston and Worcester and Springfield, and then there were
some of the small towns you know down on the
down on the island, on Mart's Viney Dy, of some
small communities out in the Berkshires. So there's there's a broad,
broad spectrum. But if you had to characterize just informally
(03:51):
what a gateway municipality, I know there's there's some categories
of characteristics that they have to meet or exceed, but
these are these are good sized communities who need some
funding help, and they also tend to be communities that
are not the richest communities in Massachusetts. Just as an overview,
(04:11):
can we agree on that?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah? And I can give even some further backstory, Yeah,
because I think there's two there's two ways to look
at this, and you're hitting it right on. There's the
mass General Law, which has three qualifiers in it, which
we'll get into in terms of what you have to
kind of hit to qualify legally. And then there's the
overall sentiment around being a gateway municipality. And it actually
(04:37):
comes out of a mass Ink White paper report from
back in two thousand and seven where they looked at
what can best be described as former mill towns. You know,
places that are outside of Boston in Massachusetts that were
once hubs for a lot of activity, different mills, factories,
(05:01):
and are still kind of you know, either still or
could once become again regional centers of activity and economic development.
And so that was the the initial concept was how
could the state look at investing in former male towns
to bring back population, bring back jobs, be a place
(05:21):
where people could start a family, start a job that's
outside of our major our major cities.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Okay, and the characteristics that actually qualifies one of these communities.
I guess there are three characteristics and why an't you
run them by us?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah? So Gayway municipality is a designation that's defined in
the Mass General Law. And the three qualifiers. You have
to have a population greater than thirty five thousand, but
less than two hundred and fifty thousand. The next qualification
is a median household in below the Commonwealth's average, and
(06:03):
the third is a rate of educational attainment of a
bachelor's degree or above that is below the Commonwealth's average.
So you have to hit as a town or a
city that's above thirty five thousand. You have to hit
all three. You can't hit two out of three. The
law has those three qualified.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Okay. So for example, the city in which I live
has about eighty thousand people, but it is it's one
of the more affluent communities in Massachusetts, so it qualifies
on population. But I'm sure that the median household income
in Newton, Massachusetts is not below the state average, so
(06:45):
therefore they would not be they would be disqualified as
being considered a gateway city.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I assume that's right. Yeah, they would not as defined
by the law, they would not.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Be in So give us a few I'm thinking of,
is what I'm thinking. I'm thinking cities like new Bedford,
fall River, Rockton, Lowell, maybe Lynne. Have I hit a
few of the gateway cities just there?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Or yeah? I believe all the above.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
All of the above. What about Lawrence?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Lawrence is on my list.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, why don't you hit us with a few more
so people will know what cities. There were only twenty
six that had these three qualifications, in addition to the
ones that I just guessed at.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, so Worcester, you know you mentioned wester earlier. Worcester's
on there because they're below the two hundred and fifty
thousand populations.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, although, by the way, Worcester is the second largest
city not only in Massachusetts but in New England.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
That's right. We also have Fitchburg, Yep, Holy Yoke, Chicka
Bee Chelsea and taunting Westfield Springfield another big one, but
below two and fifty thousand. And you know, generally, once
(08:11):
upon a time they had an industry there that you know,
really centered at everything around it, okay, but may not
be the same in today's economy.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Okay. So now we've defined what we're talking about. When
we get back, I want to talk about the problem
that you have identified and what can be done to
rectify it. And if people want to call in, I'm
in studio tonight, which for me, I haven't been in
studio for a couple of years. No, And I can
actually see rob and it's there are televisions surrounding me here.
(08:42):
So I'm a little energized, and I hope all of
you are as well. This is a serious issue, and
I and I think if you stick with us, you'll
learn a lot about Massachusetts and maybe some some reforms
that can be implemented which will benefit people who should
be qualifying in these in these particular communities. My guest
(09:03):
is Massachusetts State Senator William Bill Driscoll, who, as we've
mentioned before, represents several south Shore communities hometown of Milton.
Back on Nightside Here are the numbers if you have
a question or a comment six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
thirty six, one seven, nine, three thirty. Back right after
this on Nightside, It's.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
We are joined by Massachusetts State Senator Bill Driscoll William
Driscoll of Milton. Are you want some committees up there
that that first? I know that your experience as a
state representative with Randolph, which was so close to becoming
a gateway city, But are you the committees that you're
assigned to do they have a particular interest in in
(09:53):
this issue?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
The uh? In some of them? Yeah, I mean I think, uh,
we touch a little bit of every I think certainly
one of the biggest changes of becoming a senator versus
the Rep is it's only forty senators as opposed to
one hundred and sixty reps. In some days, as one
of forty, it feels like I'm on every single committee
with all the hearings we have to go to. But
(10:17):
I think people you know might know me from back
in COVID nineteen peaks. I was the House chair of
the COVID nineteen Emergency Preparedness and Management Committee, and so
we ran the oversight hearings back when Governor Baker was
appearing before things, you know, when the vaccine website broke
(10:39):
and all that.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Oh, I remember it well. I remember I was not
a great role out, that's for sure. Okay, So so
you got involved in this, you got interested, and I
don't know how much staff you have, but how much
work you've done a lot of work on this issue.
And what's the motivation?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
What is yeah? What is yeah? Yeah, it's great. I've
got a great staff. Matt Murphy on myself in particular,
has been doing a great job and encrunching the numbers
as we dig into this. And so part of the
motivation here is that we need greater accountability and a
revamp of the Gateway municipality statue. And the reason I
say that is because I mentioned the story of how
(11:20):
the origin story here is we looked into it for
Randolph starting back in twenty seventeen. And one of the
natural questions as a legislator to get pulled in a
lot of directions, So you have to make sure you
trying to spend your time wisely, what would it get us?
What would be available to a town that's a gateway
or a city that's a gateway. And so it's the
(11:40):
answer is that there's different grants and tax credits that
are either given a gateway city is given preferential treatment
and that application or exclusive access to funding for early
education in pre K. There's some grants for planting trees
or enhancing park space other projects as well. And so
(12:04):
as you started to look into this, the list right
now is twenty six gateway communities officially if you go
on a state website or you go on mass incs
website that group that did the white paper that were
just kind of originated out of the problem is the
list is inaccurate. So those three qualifies, the population, the
(12:28):
median income, and the state average on education have changed,
as you can imagine over the last fifteen years or more,
as different census data comes out. And we've kind of
scratched our heads back in twenty one after the twenty
twenty census data was released, why didn't the gateway list change?
And I can tell you definitively right now there are
(12:49):
twenty six communities that officially meet the statute. But the
three that are wrong, this three that should be on
there and I not and this three that are on
there right now, and they shouldn't be there any longer.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
But they and those numbers, the three that should be
on and the three that should be off. It isn't
as if the number is locked at twenty six. It's
not a competition. It is whether or not you qualify.
Let me ask you this, how much money in hole
in Toto is available to gateway cities? How big is
(13:24):
the pie that the twenty six gateway cities would have
access to?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Is there anyway?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So this is a This is a great question and
one of the things that women continue to dig into
it because there is not a single source we can
go and say and actually identify that. But I can
tell you that, for example, the mass Works program is
(13:50):
hundreds of million dollars a year, and depend upon the year,
half of that allocation they either set a goal or
they're mandated to spend half of it in gateway municipalities.
So we're talking like three hundred million dollars. Just in
twenty twenty four a loan was targeted at projects in
(14:14):
gateway municipalities. We're still digging into mass works, but I
can say that so far, looking at the grant programs
and the various tax credits. So there's tax threats that
are available to employers that either are creating jobs or
maintaining jobs in gateway municipalities. Across all those, we've identified
(14:39):
twenty five million dollars that has been likely sent to
communities that no longer qualify as a gateway.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Okay, so let me ask you this. I don't know
if you want to mention the names of the three
communities who have received money in your you know, as
a consequence of your study. Is the solution a quaback
for that much?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
But yeah, I think, and I think I would I
would start by saying too, So at this point, I
don't think we should clawback the money. There's the three.
There's three that should be listed and aren't. And I
think one of the things I want to make sure
that we highlight here is is that that's really unfortunate
because for at least a couple of years, if not longer,
(15:26):
these are communities that haven't had the opportunity to apply
for these grants or task creds, and they really should
have been given it.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Okay, so let's identify them, if you would be so kind.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
So we have and this is going to be interesting
too for people listening. So Weymouth and Marlborough have qualified
for a number of years each but have never been
added to the officially designated list. The third one actually highlights,
I think a problem within the qualifying formula. It's Amherst.
It qualifies because of the school or college there, you Mass, right,
(16:03):
So it throws off the educational attainment number by a
mile because again I think most people would probably agree,
but I'll just make the assumption that if you're between
eighteen and twenty four, you do not have a bachelor's
degree yet, and that Mass Amherst. There's quite a few
of those people that fit that demographic and educational attainment
(16:23):
can Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
My question, my question cenatorve, is this, why are we
why would we be considering students at U MASS in
that category of population. It seems to me that if
the student is attending U MASS and is coming from
New York or Connecticut, they're not Massachusetts residents, that their
(16:47):
presence there should not be counted. And if there's someone
who lives in Boston or Newton or Worcester, it shouldn't
be counted either. The only students in Amherst at U
MASS either at Amherst College or you ask Amherst, which
of course is a much bigger facility, would be people
who actually lived in Amherst. Isn't that a question? Yeah,
(17:08):
And I think that you've got to struggle with a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, I think it because I think it highlights the
greater issue, which is we need to revamp the formula.
They're not on the list and they probably shouldn't be,
whereas Marlboro and Weymouth fits some characteristics of that needing
economic development support. And in some of the communities that
have fallen off, we've got Malden. It's actually four now
(17:36):
that I look at it, So it's Malden, Mithu and
Quinsy and Salem are on the list technically today if
you go and search for it, you know it's on
the mass doc of site. It's on the mass inc site.
And so it's something that I filed part part of
the way I think has happened.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Here.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
You can tell me how we are in time as
we go.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I'm getting close to nine thirty years, So let's posit
in this and we'll come back and expand on this.
And also i'd like to hear from listeners. It seems
to me, I'm agreeing with you totally, and I think
it's to make it even more interesting that a town
like Amherst, which is really an affluent town, when you
consider the people who live there full time, and you
(18:22):
eliminate the students who don't live there, they're only partially
during the year. They don't live there. Even when you're
a U massa Amherst student, you're not living there twelve
months a year. You're not living there nine or ten
months a year. And I think that communities like Malden
and Methuen, and I don't know what their problem is,
(18:44):
but those are communities that can still need some help,
Quinsy and Salem less so, but I'd rather see Quinsy, Salem,
Methuin and Maldan getting some help than Amherst. Now, I
know that's a subjective judgment, so I want to talk
about that, and I hope that some callers will join
this conversation because there are tax dollars that are at
(19:05):
stake here. Let me give you a break for a
couple of minutes. We got to do a newscast. This
is this is becoming more interesting to me as we
talk about it, and I can understand how you could
really find yourself entrapped in this because it's real money
and it's people's lives that are impacted. Six one seven,
(19:25):
four thirty six one seven nine three, one ten thirty. Jeff,
it's called join the conversation back on Nightside with Massachusetts
State Senator William Driscoll. Bill Driscoll, You're.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
On night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
We're talking about Massachusetts Gateway communities or Massachusetts Gateway municipalities.
Right now, there are twenty six gateway municipalities or gateway
cities in Massachusetts. There are three characteristics which qualifies a
city for additional financial support. Your population has to be
(20:05):
between thirty five thousand and two hundred and fifty thousand,
so Boston would not be considered, but virtually any major
city in Massachusetts would be, including Worcester and Springfield. The
median household income of your people in your community must
be below the state average, and the rate of bachelor
(20:27):
degrees or above has to be below a certain percentage.
We have, however, three communities that it should well, there
are two communities that should be added, I think Weymouth
and Marlborough they are both middle sized cities. Iam Heerst,
(20:49):
because of a kind of a quirky judgment, is currently
on the list. But there are four cities that I
think would qualify. And Senator to Driscoll, I don't know
if he thinks they should qualify, but under the specifics
(21:09):
of the law, they would qualify. And Senator you said
they will mauld and Methu and Quincy and Salem. Correct.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, So those four are currently on the list today
if you look it up as being designated a gateway municipality,
but at various points along the way here since twenty ten,
they have fallen off. They were once on and fell off,
or in the case of a place like Maldon and
(21:36):
massouin the US CENTSUS Bureau puts out a couple of
different data products, and one of them is annually and
Maul and Mathou and kind of toggle in one year
and then follow out the next year, and toggle in
one year and follow the next year and again. That
tells me, you know, the greater conversation here is that
we need to revisit the law and what qualifies people,
(21:58):
because I'm certainly not advocating that if you fall out
one year, you're done. Yeah, and I think that we Yeah,
I think the local officials, you know, they need the
ability to budget and plan. And so I don't know
exactly what the right threshold is, but it's probably not
one year and one year out. Could be three years
of five years, you know, looking at the data that
(22:19):
kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But okay, so so yes, just so that that I
haven't confused my audience. Okay, of the twenty six now
that are on the list, is Maldon Withthuin, Quinsy and
Salem on the list? Or are they not on the list?
Speaker 1 (22:35):
They are on the list.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
They're on the list.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
They're on the list that they technically okay, technically not all.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Okay, Well, I think what they should do is make it.
Since since the census is every ten years, the National Census,
I think that you know, there should be a five
year check maybe halfway through, you know, and if if
they're falling off five years, fine, and then you want
to you would like to see at least two cities.
He's added communities added Weymouth and Marlborough, but technically Amherst
(23:05):
would qualify under the color and circumstances, which to me
seems crazy. Why would it not be possible, Senator to
amend the law and just say that, you know that
obviously Amherst with Amherst College and UH and U mass Amherst,
(23:26):
those are big student populations. Can't they say that student
populations should not, you know, be considered that if the
student lives in you know, Lawrence, is going to U
mass Amherst, that he or she should be counted as
a resident of Lawrence, which probably needs some additional financial
(23:50):
support from the state a heck of a lot more
than Amherst does.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, and yeah, and if you allow me too, would
like to back up a little bit because I think
no matter where we land and terms of the next
version and iteration of the qualifiers and the law, we
have to make sure that somebody is paying attention to
the list every year, and that has not been happening.
(24:13):
So the last time that we've found that the list
changed that twenty six communities designated change was twenty thirteen
during the Patrick Devell Patrick administration. Governor Patrick Attelborrow and
Peabody were added to the list. So it when from
twenty four to twenty six and it has not changed since,
(24:35):
and I don't have to tell you what the list
has that demographics have changed since. And so the Economic
Development secretaries, you know, seems very active between twenty twenty
ten when this all began in law in twenty thirteen,
but have not been monitoring it since. And the other
entity that I want to make sure that we mentioned
(24:57):
is again mas Sink, who wrote the first white Paper
report to name those old mill towns that needed more
economic development. So their list started I think around seven,
and by the time my colleagues, my predecessors, and the
legislature put this into law, you know, we were at
twenty four by defining it for those three qualifiers. Massing
(25:23):
convenes conferences of gateway cities and gateway leaders. They produce
news products and different things. In fact, they own and
manage Conwell Peacon which ran a story back on January ninth.
I'll reach you the headline Beacon Hill hasn't kept track
of which communities qualify for Gateway city status. So I
(25:49):
agree and disagree with this. I take issue as a
legislator because I am paying attention, but I would I
would add the I think Massink has made itself the
indisputable authority on gateways, and they shouldn't they should include
themselves in this headline. It really wasn't until that January
(26:10):
ninth story that it appeared they understood that the list
was inaccurate. That's been republished over and over again again.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Some people might say, well, this is you know, you're
you're counting the number of angels that can fit in
the head of a pin. That's not so. There's real
money at stake here, real programs and real benefits, and
benefits should go to the communities that need the benefits.
Let us do this center. Let's get the phone calls
going here and Rob I'm gonna I'll bring this this
(26:43):
one up. Let me go to Peter, just like the
old time.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Rob.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Here we go going to get Peter in Gloucester calling Hi, Peter,
welcome you are first this hour and night side. How
are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Good? Thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, before I just need to get is I need
to find out from my guest is Gloucester a gateway city?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Senator Gloucester is not on my list? Okay, and doesn't
appear like it would qualify at this point either.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
All right, Peter, if you're there, let's have you common
a question. Yeah, you go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, I was just getting out of my zoning board meeting,
and you know, we're always looking for housing and affordable
housing and how do we you know, get funding. But
revisiting those laws, Senator, makes a lot of sense because
we just fall short. I mean, our population has been declining.
(27:43):
We're roughly around thirty thousand and being in an ocean
front municipality, we have a lot of restrictions with the DPA,
and you know, just trying to rebuild our infrastructure and
continue to grow. You know, I think any funding that
the city could procure what would be beneficial. So maybe
(28:06):
revisiting those qualifications could kind of open up, you know,
more help and more funding for some of these municipalities
that are really in need of that.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So you'd like to see the population qualification. I assume
Peter dropped from the thirty five thousand maybe down to
thirty thousand. Senator, is it possible that this program could
be expanded or.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
You know, yeah, So let me say this Glocester is
not a gateway city designated right now, but what you
are designated as is a quote unquote similarly situated which
is a list that was developed after twenty eighteen the
Legislature and Economic Development Bond Bill put some money into
(28:56):
a bucket, so to speak, for mass housing, and there's
eight communities that are below that thirty five thousand threshold,
so this somewhere between seventeen thousand and thirty five, and
you're considered similarly situated. And there's actually a mass housing
grant available to Gloucester as one of the seven today.
(29:22):
But I hear you, and that's exactly what I am
talking about doing here is I think that we have
some communities that are just above the line right now
that we could invest in in just below the line,
so to speak, in terms of how gateway communities are
being defined. And I think we should really widen the
pie because there's certainly a lot of areas like Gloucester
(29:44):
and Randolph, which I represent and which started this kind
of interest for me in this topic. I would like
to carve in some additional communities as we have a
conversation and look at the law.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I'd be interested in know are you aware of that
a grant that the Senator has referred to?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
No, I wasn't, and I thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
And what about this, maybe, Senator, what we could do
is when we go to a break here in a moment,
we could give Peter a number that he could get
in someone from glossog could get in touch with you
and discuss a little bit more specifically what gloss to
is apparently entitled to and they're not.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Receiving absolutely okay, yeah and that.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
So Peter, do me a favorite stay on the line.
We got to go to a quick break here and Rob,
if you can get the senator's office number or whatever
number he wants to give you to pass on to
Peter uh before he leaves again. Peter, thanks so much
of calling. Maybe you've helped your city a little bit
here with a with a well timed phone call. Thank
(30:59):
you so much for listening to the night side as well.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Appreciate it all right, you hang in there.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Rob, you expedict that communication. I'm going to go to break.
If someone else would like to join the conversation, we
got a little bit of time left. Feel free six
one seven, two, five four ten thirty six one seven
nine three one ten thirty. We're talking about Massachusetts Gateway municipality,
cities and towns, and we're talking with Massachusetts State Senator
(31:24):
William Driscoll, who really I think understands this very well. Senator,
I deal with a lot of state representatives and senators,
and I got to tell you, you've very much impressed
me tonight with your your background and your knowledge and
your understanding of this situation. You really do get the
nuances and you have represented the State Senate remarkably well.
(31:47):
On my program tonight, we have one more segment. If
you can stick with us, we'll we'll let you go
at ten o'clock.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Okay, yeah, thanks, Dyed, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
My pleasure, My pleasure. This is a fascinating topic to me,
might not be to my audience, but this is what
government is all about, and to really drill down and
understand what's going on. And Representative Drisco, or rather Senator Driscoll,
has been extremely extremely clear in what's at stake, and
(32:16):
it's a lot of money for communities like Gloucester, where
Peter called from back on Nightside right after this, you're on.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I'm talking with Massachusetts State Senator William Driscoll. Bill Driscoll
comes from represents seven communities or parts of seven communities
on the South Shore comes from Milton, and he's done
Yeomen's work here on finding inaccuracies within the programs that
benefit Massachusetts Gateway municipalities. So where do we go from here? Senator?
(32:55):
You have done a lot of work on this, and
I must tell you I am not, you know, a
mathematical nerd or anything like that, but I do like
conversations about specific programs so we can learn about programs
that are intended to help people. And I think you
are telling us so far you have found about twenty
(33:17):
six million. Is that the number twenty six million dollars
that have been in effect misallocated? Correct from Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, we're about twenty five that we can definitively uh
okay show Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And as someone once said, a million here and a
million there, it eventually runs into some real money. So
where do you take this? I mean, obviously you have
taken it to a level here, and I think a
lot of people appreciate the work you've done. But what's
the next couple of steps, if any?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah? So, I think it's really important in the conversations
that I've had with colleagues in the legislature. It's clear
that statutory framework for this, in terms of who qualifies
and who doesn't and what we're targeting investments in, really
needs to be reopened and updated. You know, we need
to have accuracy and accountability farness that essentially the public deserves,
(34:05):
making sure that we are allocating tax dollars appropriately in
the way that we intend to do so in the
various programs. So I filed some legislation. It's you know,
it's the conversation starter. I filed it in a supplemental
budget earlier this year, and I spoke on the floor
of the Senate about and part of what one of
(34:25):
the provisions would would explicitly give the Economic Development Secretary,
no matter who that is in an administration, the charge
to monitor this list and see who is qualifying or
maybe is graduating off the list, so to speak, give
them discretion to to move and appropriately update the list
(34:47):
as time goes on. Because I really think part of
what's happened here, it's happened across multiple administrations. I don't
think it's anything you know, sinister or anything like that,
but you know, these programs, we put them in in motion,
and we really need to revisit them every ten years
or so, and I think we kind of surpassed. This
all started like an nine twenty ten era to give
(35:10):
listeners a sense of when this was codified into law.
And so here we are in twenty twenty six, and
we need to make sure that there's an office, probably
Economic Development Secretary's office in the executive branch, with that
explicit charge day in and day out to manage the
list and manage some of the programs that gateway municipalities
(35:33):
have either preferential or exclusive access to fund streams.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Well, again, we've heard recently about you know, big time
fraud in some other states. In any state budget, we
would expect that there would be some fat. This is
not fat, this is misallocation. And let's get the money
to the communities, the municipalities that deserve the money and
(36:01):
and they can do the most with it. And I
just want to say to you, thank you for your
time tonight, and thank you, thank you for the work
that you've done here. Again, this is not going to
be headline grabbing work, but I think it's really important,
particularly for people who live in a couple of communities
one Weymouth in your district, and also Marlborough that should
(36:22):
be on this list. I think you've proven that tonight.
Uh and yeah, and I just I'm very impressed, to
be really honest with you, because there's a lot of
people up there and the legislature who I am not
necessarily impressed by.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Uh. Yeah, I think you know, we talked a lot
about Amherst Amars is a great place. I think it
deserves a lot of investment. Maybe this is not the
right program, uh you know, like we said before, it
technically would fit today, but I think it's you know,
about accountability for the taxpayer and making sure that as
(36:55):
he is. You know, in the legislature, we we set
the policy and then it's implemented and operationalized by the
executive brands. And these things can happen sometimes, but it's
really about going forward, making sure that we carve some
new communities in and make sure the funding's going to
the places that we intended.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, you know, it's funny how one issue is related
to another. I don't mean to put you on the
spot here, but I'm always troubled when, either in Massachusetts
or in any state, students who come in here and
are temporary residents in Massachusetts then can vote in political elections,
congressional elections, presidential elections. They should vote in the place
(37:36):
they live, in my opinion, and similarly, here Amherst should
not get extra money from the state because they have,
you know, a substantial number or or a high population
that doesn't that doesn't count kids who haven't completed their education,
which is I think the problem here. So you know,
(37:58):
I just think that they're a lot of decisions made
at the legislators that are important, and this is an
important one. And I hope someday if we talk about
whether students in Amherst who aren't residents of Massachusetts should
be voting in Massachusetts elections. I just think that that
what you do, what your folks do up there, is
very important for the good and maybe sometimes for the
(38:21):
not so good. And I thank you. This is the
first time we've worked together on the air, and I
really was impressed, and I thank you with the amount
of here and concern that you've given to this issue. Senator,
State Senator Massachusetts State Senator William Driscoll, Thank you very much. Senator.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Thanks Dan.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
We'll talk again when we get back. We're going to
talk with old friend Dean Shaughnessy about why Bill Belichick
was not included in this year's Hall of Fame class.
I mean, there's a lot of people who don't like Belichick.
There's a lot there not to like, but it should
not prevent him from becoming a rightful member of the
Pro Football Hall of Fame at Canton, Ohio. Talk with
(39:03):
Dan Shaughnessy after the ten o'clock News
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