May 10, 2026 • 59 mins
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We reconnect with Chris Burres to talk about the real mechanics of podcast marketing, brand legacy, and why consistency beats quick wins when you are trying to earn attention. We also zoom out into AI governance and longevity, from building AI-native workflows to the accelerating science behind ESS60 and “longevity escape velocity.”
• the origin story behind EWR and what a rebrand really costs
• podcast cadence as a growth strategy and a team alignment tool
• why interviews build relationships and distribution faster than solo shows
• what it can cost to buy a premium podcast appearance and when it pays off
• AI governance basics for regulated industries and privacy risk
• building an AI-first company with workflows, access and accountability
• longevity escape velocity and why medical knowledge is accelerating
• ESS60, mitochondria, oxidative stress and why users report focus plus sleep
Guest Contact Information:
Linkedin: linkedin.com/chrisburres
Website: myvitalc.com
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With over 5 million downloads, The Best SEO Podcast has been the go-to show for digital marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs wanting real-world strategies to grow online.
Now, host Matthew Bertram — creator of the LLM Visibility Stack™, and Lead Strategist at EWR Digital — takes the conversation beyond traditional SEO into the AI era of discoverability.
Each week, Matthew dives into the tactics, frameworks, and insights that matter most in a world where search engines, large language models, and answer engines are reshaping how people find, trust, and choose businesses. From SEO and AI-driven marketing to executive-level growth strategy, you’ll hear expert interviews, deep-dive discussions, and actionable strategies to help you stay ahead of the curve.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
This is the unknown secrets of internet marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Howdy, welcome back to another fun-filled episode of
the Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
I am your host, Matthew Bertram.
I have a special guest foreveryone today, for the longtime
listeners.
You'll recognize his voice.
Uh, I have Chris Burris on theshow.
Chris, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Hello, Matt.
It was great hearing that intromusic.
I haven't heard that intro musicin a very long time.
Um, and I don't do you know theorigin of that music?
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
Your buddy's band, right?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (00:45):
It's a band that that went defunct.
Um, and and I loved that music.
And the title of that song isGold Mine, um, which I think
there's a gold mine inmarketing, there's a gold mine
in internet marketing, there's agold mine uh in SEO.
So I I I always liked the songand and thought it was
appropriate.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
And for you first-time listeners or recent
listeners, uh, Chris is actuallythe founder of EWR, uh, as well
as he was the original host ofthis podcast.
We co-hosted it for a long time,uh, and then I've eventually
taken it over.
And um, you know, Chris and Istay in contact, and uh, I just
(01:26):
thought it'd be fun to bring himback on the show.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Yeah.
Uh, you know, you you mentionedthe founder of EWR.
There's been uh a journey evenwith the title with the name.
And by the way, you know, one ofthe things, and um that I I
think you you know, there's lotsof places that I have lots of
room to improve in.
Uh, one of the places that I'mgood is I don't get emotionally
attached to some things thatother people do.
(01:50):
As an example, our companyinitially was eWebstyle.com,
right?
So, and it had a hyphen, ehyphen webstyle.
And funny story, uh uh anotherbusiness partner couldn't find
it because he didn't use thehyphen, but we didn't have the
choice, right?
So we so we just were stuck withit.
But at some point, my businesscoach comes to me and says, Hey,
(02:11):
I'm I'm kind of like pitchingyou guys to work with these
clients, and I'm talking abouthow you're focused on results,
and then the name of the companyis eWeb style.
And he was like, I think youshould change it to eWeb
results.
And it took me, I don't know, 30seconds, like, uh, yeah, okay,
yeah, done.
And then then we were ewebresults, and then as you came
(02:34):
in, sort of taking over the CEOrole, uh, you wanted to kind of
go for bigger uh marketing, goafter bigger markets um and kind
of bigger clients, and you feltlike a consolidation of the
name.
I don't uh if you want to shareyour logic on that, uh, but it's
it's that's been a journey inand of itself.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
I I still like the name e Web Results, I think it
represents uh what we do uh andwho we are.
Um, I think it was kind of whenevery all there was a lot of
like uh refresh of brand names,uh like KFC, Kentucky Fried
Chicken.
And so I really wanted to uhhonor uh what we had built and
(03:10):
what you had built.
And so EWR is actually e-webresults.
Yeah, a lot of people think it'suh tied into New York Airport,
and we are uh looking atlaunching a campaign that's
talking about we we have a lotof publicly traded companies and
international companies now, andkind of like the uh runway to
(03:31):
the skies, or you know, therethe marketing team's been coming
up with some different ideasabout it's like a uh an
international hub for marketing.
Um, and and yeah, I I think EWRdigital, um, when I look back at
it, uh eWeb results is a lotmore memorable.
So from even a like a brandingname, there's uh I think a lot
(03:53):
of value in that.
And um, you know, that that wasdefinitely an experience to go
through a rebrand for anybodythat's gone through a rebrand.
Uh, that's that's a really longand hard decision.
And then there's a lot that goesinto changing everything over,
especially when you're a 25 plusyear company, Chris.
SPEAKER_02 (04:12):
So yeah.
Well, and and and it's funny howold of a company are we that we
have E, right?
Because electronic was a bigthing, EWR result.
So um, so very cool.
That's been that's been afantastic uh piece of the
journey.
I I I'm the old guy, right,who's been uh on a podcast since
(04:34):
2009, right?
So here we are 2026.
Like I don't know.
That's uh uh what is that 16wait, if it's 2010, that would
be 16, 17 years uh ofpodcasting.
Because I do have a podcast nowcalled Live Beyond the Norms, uh
related to what I focus on uh ona daily basis now.
(04:56):
Uh, but yeah, I'm I'm uh I don'tI guess an old school podcaster.
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
Well, I you know, the the E like the E- certainly
dates the name and and I thinkthat um you know it it was time
to to update from thatstandpoint, but I think that
shows um tenure and likestability and length.
And then, you know, when wewould joke even eight years ago,
(05:22):
uh when it was starting to gethot, uh, we were saying that you
know, podcasting before it wascool, it was really a means to
communicate uh information to aremote team, uh like of like
what's going on and what changesare being made.
And I I really think that thatformat now, the one to many,
it's a way to disseminateinformation.
(05:44):
And I know that I've you know,I've done a lot of interviews
recently, and you and I weretalking about it previously, but
for the audience, I was goingthrough a Goldman Sachs NBA,
which I may or may not havementioned uh on an episode or
two.
And I basically prior to that,because there's been a couple
summers where when you when whenyou were a lot more involved,
(06:06):
Chris, um like we didn't keep upthe cadence of the weekly
podcast, and that was part ofpeople's ritual, and and we lost
a lot of audience uh during thatframe, and a lot of other people
came out doing stuff, and and solike I had remembered that
lesson, and and so I banked alot of podcasts and I I really
just dripped them uh since thebeginning of the year.
(06:28):
Uh and you know, I I have a lotof great guests that are uh in
the works uh in line as I'm alot more active.
And you know, I know you and Iwanted to maybe talk about some
of the things you're doing withyour podcast, and I know a lot
of other people have startedpodcasts, um, and it's not an
immediate uh successful likeresult, like SEO.
(06:51):
Like you make a couple changesand then boom, like you got some
improvements and things aregetting indexed quickly.
It compounds over time.
Um, but there are certain thingsthat you can do and learn that
are shortcuts in how to be abetter podcaster or how to be
better at content distribution.
SPEAKER_02 (07:10):
Yeah, I well, so one, the immediate results.
I'll I'll share how long it tookbefore we got our first call.
The way we ended up starting thepodcast is uh we had a sales
manager, and I didn't know hewas the first really kind of the
first hire, and I didn't knowlike how to train him, right?
So it's like, hey, here's thispodcast.
I can't even remember the nameof the podcast.
(07:31):
Some of this is out of NewJersey or something.
Hey, listen to this.
And he probably like uh a weeklater came and said, Hey, why
don't we do our own podcast?
Uh that was probably on aMonday.
That Friday, we recorded ourfirst podcast.
Like, like that, that was like,how do we jump on these things?
That makes a lot of sense.
And so, one great way to trainup people who are coming on
(07:52):
board, Hake, like this is howyou do SEO.
Two, to what you mentioned, thisis how you kind of have
cohesiveness in the team, right?
So everyone on the team islistening to the podcast,
they're on the same page, theyhave the same enthusiasm, the
same excitement.
Um, and then of course, youknow, potentially as a marketing
strategy, uh, I can tell you wedidn't get our first phone call
(08:13):
for 12 months, right?
So we were putting a weeklypodcast out.
Uh was it weekly?
It was weekly uh podcast out andfor 12 months uh before we even
got our first, like, hey, uh,you know, uh you guys exist.
I hear you.
Um, so yeah, it can be a longerstrategy.
And and there are things that Iwould um that I would might do
(08:35):
differently um uh now because wedidn't do interviews really
until you came on board.
And and that's a it's a smartstrategy to do interviews.
Now I'll tell you kind of in theYouTube space and kind of what
from my experience now, becauseI I actually uh record and put
out two podcasts per week forLiv Beyond.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
So I just want to say, like, Chris is on the level
of content production as like anAlex Hermozi.
Like, I am serious, and you'vemet Alex Hermozy, like I mean,
Gary Vanderchuk, whatever, likeyou are pumping out in your
vertical more content thananybody I've ever seen.
(09:16):
Like doing the online where youdid like 60 interviews, it was
like an online conference.
I mean, you've taken podcastingto the next level.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Well, I'm gonna share the there's two pieces to
this story that you're involvedin.
Um, so one, I remember when wefirst started working together,
one of your statements was hey,companies of the future need to
be a media company.
And in my in my head, I waslike, like I like okay, it
didn't really resonate.
(09:46):
And I'm in a studio now, right?
Like I know, like I'm literallyat this office, have a studio,
and I believe that as a company,we're doing the right thing when
I'm in this studio because weare now a media company, uh, and
that's really important.
The other piece being on podcastreally wasn't on my radar.
(10:07):
So I'm not talking about youknow having a podcast.
Being on podcast wasn't on myradar.
You came to me and you said,I've got this vendor who will
get you on podcasts.
Um, it's not in my budget rightnow.
I need you to buy from this guyso that he gets you on podcasts
because I think I need to keephim in my heap hip pocket and I
think it'll be a value.
(10:28):
What a great decision, right?
Like, so now at this companyI've hired like five different
companies to get me on differentpodcasts.
Um, I I think I have two orthree, uh, right.
Well, at least two interviewinganother to get me on podcast
because this is a viablestrategy.
Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Okay, so Chris, I want to ask you this question.
I know you were gonna probablyget here, but I I wanted to
interview style ask you thisquestion.
SPEAKER_03 (10:50):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
What is the most money?
Or if you don't want to sharethat, yeah, but what is the most
money that you've ever spent toget on a podcast?
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Oh, uh the most money I have ever spent was
$30,000 to get onto a podcast.
Um, and we spent that at the endof last year, and um, and that
was for Dave Asprey's podcast,right?
Uh, that was uh ostensibly 30minutes of being on his podcast.
Uh, and I will share it was wellworth it.
(11:20):
Like I like if I could if Icould do that every whatever
time period, uh, I wouldcontinue to do that because that
was uh, you know, when whenhere's what I joke, because I've
been on like 140 differentpodcasts, and and what I say is
if that podcast has audience,which they usually don't, right?
(11:41):
And if that podcast, pat podcaster has influence, which they
even have less influence thanthey have audience typically,
uh, then it will move theneedle.
So a lot of the podcasts that Igo on, barely traceable sales,
but I'm gonna tell the story,right?
You should be comfortabletelling the story to anyone who
will listen.
And if you could potentially geton a podcast and tell it to 10
(12:04):
to 100 people instead of justone, you should do that.
Like that's that's my opinion.
There may be some point whereum, you know, we're generating
enough value and it's not worthmy time to do that.
I have a hard time seeing wherethat is.
I just believe uh I'll I'llshare with you.
I just recorded a podcast.
Uh the guys in the vision space,he we start talking about my
(12:24):
product.
He's like, Oh, I've been lookingfor you, right?
Like for you related to myproduct.
Um, I sell a lot of this stuff,so uh I want to use you, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I didn't I didn't know that wasgonna happen, right?
That's because um I'm going andby the way, a couple things.
A previous interview I did, heasked the pre that person, very
big in the space, her name's JJVirgin.
(12:46):
Um, he she's been on TV on allsorts of kind of uh physical
training stuff, and she waslike, Oh, yeah, that was a the
that interview was a lot of fun,right?
So I'm building theserelationships, and it's one of
the things that I think isreally valuable.
Now I will say, right, because Iuh before we started, you were
saying I've got like my goal islike three interviews and then
one of your kind of summaries.
(13:08):
I will share it's been told tome, and I look at the data in
terms of like audience size andvisibility.
It should be three of youtalking and sharing your
expertise and one interview,interview.
Use the interview to kind ofcollaborate and share audience
and build a relationship.
And then what people areinterested in is like, hey, how
(13:28):
do I do SEO?
Oh my god, how do I do SEO foruh AI?
Right.
And and is it different if Iwant to do well on Grok or I
want to do well on um on Geminior Chat G, like those are the
things that people will tuneinto and connect with you and
ask questions about.
So anyway, that just just Irambled there.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Yeah, no, I I mean I have a whiteboard right here
behind me.
I have everything ready to go.
It's uh it's just getting thetime.
I think uh I'm I'm speaking atuh OTC next week and then uh
about AI.
Uh okay, hold on.
SPEAKER_02 (14:00):
So you just said I'm speaking at OTC next week.
Most of the people, unlessthey're in the Houston area,
don't know what it is.
So it's Offshore TechnologyConference.
Yeah, they don't know how big itis.
Like this is Shell Erickson,right?
This is every major oil company,and then really major service
company from the level of of uhof just making generators or uh
(14:23):
everything downhole oil and gasrelated.
Uh, it's it's an amazingconference.
And the fact that you'respeaking there is is huge.
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
It's yeah, it's the biggest uh oil and gas
conference in the world.
Um, and and I've been going toit for a long time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:39):
By the way, I don't I don't know if anyone out there
knows.
Um, oil and gas has a big impactin the world.
I guess we we know that nowbecause of the straight of our
moves.
But like it's huge, the biggestof the most important industry.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
Yeah, and and that's really um EWR uh focuses on
regulated industries.
So we work a lot in healthcare.
Uh, we got a big footprint herein the Houston area, uh, as well
as with oil and gas.
We actually just got uh notifiedfor uh uh AMA finalists uh for
uh AI Digital TransformationAward, and that's for a publicly
(15:16):
traded oil company that we'reworking with.
SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Um American Marketing Association Marketing
Association, yeah.
We've got a couple trophicaltrophies from them from there
already.
SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
Yeah, I um I need to do a better job talking about
what EWR does.
Um, when I look at the audiencesets, uh EWR has a very
different audience set than thepodcast.
I think that a lot of the peoplethat are podcasters are um other
agencies, uh freelancers, webdevelopers, and and I I really
think AI and governance is iswhat I'm talking a lot more
(15:51):
about now.
And I'm trying to insert it intothe conversation a little bit
more, but that is really why Ibought um Motal Point, uh, which
is uh a go-to-market consultancyfor oil and gas from as we're
talking about podcasts.
Uh, this was his former businessbefore he started OGGN, oil and
gas global network, which is thelargest uh oil and gas
(16:13):
podcasting network.
And so, you know, certainlyChris, um you, you know, we had
the case study, which I think isstill on the website where uh we
had limited budget and westarted getting you into
podcasts, and now it's like yourKPI for for what you're doing.
Um, so I guess that this episodeis about, well, let's talk about
some longevity at some point,but um but but about podcast
(16:36):
marketing um has really been uhinfluential and in how I've
viewed the world and and I thinkit's a part of a go-to-market
strategy about content creation.
And so really drank our ownKool-Aid, but I'm seeing with
what is happening with AI andpower users of AI will
(16:56):
understand what I'm talkingabout, or if we're talking about
automation, is reallyunderstanding like even like a
developer like governance um andlike permissions and like who
has the judgment to makedecisions, because I think it
all starts there.
So, like all the marketing thatwe're doing and how to make a
company AI first, and like we'regetting a lot of those kind of
(17:18):
uh opportunities with EWR.
Um, but it but before all that,like you you gotta make some
really hard decisions and mapeverything out.
And and and I think that thatwas a little bit too much for
EWR to do it all.
And so I wanted to have adedicated focus to that, and
we're working a lot in energy,and so it it it really made a
(17:39):
lot of sense.
Um uh as Mark was um, you know,uh looking to exit.
And and so so I put my hat inthe ring and and and we talked
about it and and uh got got thatdone.
And and so that's a new brandthat that we're we're launching.
And for those of you that uh arelooking for podcasts where you
want to hear my opinion, uh I dodo a podcast called uh oil and
(18:04):
gas sales and marketing, but alot of it has to do uh with just
general marketing, but it'sapplied to oil and gas.
Um, and I bring the marketingside of it, Mark brings the
sales side of it, and then we dobring on other guests.
So that that's kind of adifferent angle.
And so you might get a lot of uhmy thoughts there.
So might want to go check thatout as well.
SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
Very cool.
And so your talk at OTC, theoffshore technology conference,
uh, is on AI governance.
Is that is that kind of whatthat talk is about?
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Well, funny enough, I got asked to speak about AI
governance, yes.
Uh, and then when we got on thecall, they asked me to moderate
the the panel.
And so really uh Ericsson is umsetting up their own kind of
private networks uh for peopleto run agents on.
Um there's more to that, andthey have a number of clients,
(18:56):
and so we're gonna be uh well,I'm gonna be moderating a talk
and I'm gonna just kind ofprovide a governance framework.
There's a lot of things that arehappening in AI, and a lot of
people haven't talked aboutgovernance yet.
A lot of people are talkingabout application, but the
conversation in the regulationsand like the laws are are are
(19:16):
getting ahead of what people aretalking about.
And and there's a little bit ofa mismatch, and there's some
fines and there's some issues,and people are gonna start
asking.
That's why I joined the uh AIPP,the International Association of
Privacy Professionals, of likedata governance of what are
people doing with their data?
(19:37):
Like, where are you sending itto?
Who has access to it?
Like these questions are gonnastart getting asked, like AI
policies internally at acompany, like these are things
that haven't been talked about.
Everybody's just talking aboutoutput and like performance, but
but yeah, we're seeing a lotwith tools, things are breaking,
like how is it grabbinginformation?
(19:58):
Like, um, you know, there'salways been the issue of like uh
people using images that arelicensed by somebody else, like
like all these AIs are ingestingall this data, and how does how
is that controlled, you know?
Um, so sorry, I have a clientcalling me.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
Yeah, no, I think yeah, I think that's really
right.
A AI, you know, again,productivity is is off the
charts, and I'm excited about umuh you know what what's coming
down the pipe uh in in in AI,but you you you often you know
you're so excited and jump in touse it that you're not thinking
about what are the risks, right?
(20:36):
What are the business risks,what are the data risks, and I
think that's um that's reallyimportant that you're that
you're talking about that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
Well, that like okay, so like when AI came on
the scene, we certainly startedplaying around with it early,
but I I didn't talk about itimmediately because this is like
how my brain works and like anew technology, I'm one that
wants to read the manual.
Okay, like, and so like I I'vedone a lot of the online
trainings, uh, I've done a lotof like masterminds workshops.
(21:05):
Like, I really wanted to get myhead around it.
I took some courses at Harvardand Oxford, and like I just I
wanted to get a very, very solidfoundation before I started
talking about it.
And I knew that this was gonnabe bigger than the internet.
My mom was one of the firstemployees of Microsoft.
I saw what happened with theinternet, I was like, this is
gonna be bigger.
Like, let me build thatfoundation.
(21:26):
And what I'm finding out, Chris,as I'm talking to people, um,
they don't have the samefoundational knowledge as me.
So I can't, I have to kind ofwalk back um what I'm saying to
get them to the point where wecan have a conversation about
something.
Um, and you know, I I I thinkI'm relying a lot on all the
(21:49):
hours and all the things that Idid to put in to help frame my
mental map of like how to dealwith this and where I sit today.
I'm like, anytime we Look at asystem or you know, some kind of
marketing system that we'rebuilding, or what we're doing
with automation, or like what'sa client doing, it's like
assessing what they're currentlydoing, what their current
(22:11):
workflows are, what they'reusing it, and then how we can
apply um different applications,and how do we get the team to
become like a connected workerand hooked into like this new
way of thinking?
And I think that that's the stepchange that's going to be really
difficult for a lot ofbusinesses because there's a
statistic out there thatsomething like 71% of businesses
(22:32):
are still operating like they'rein the industrial era, and
they're copying and pasting likethings from one spreadsheet to
another.
And it's like that can all bedone through like APIs and
hooks, and you know, and so Idon't know.
I I think that now people aregetting confronted with okay,
the world is changing, I need tochange with it.
How do I do it?
(22:53):
I believe it all starts withgovernance and and um well, you
know, cybersecurity is acomponent of that.
We do that with Cohosta, but umI don't know, like the world's
in a different place now, and Ithink people are running really
hard, and you hear all thesehorror stories about AI, but
it's like because people like ifyou give somebody a bunch of
(23:15):
weapons, you know, and you don'tteach people how to pay like
that thing's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
Let's go with a nail gun.
If you give them a nail gun,like things can go wrong, right?
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
Like, they're they have to just go, here's a nail
gun, and they don't like explainwhat it is or how to do it, and
then you drop it acrosseverybody in the world.
So now everybody in the worldhas a nail gun.
I think that's great.
Um, you know, like some someinteresting things are gonna
happen, like people are gonna dosome really cool things, but
people are gonna do some reallyuh not so good things as well,
(23:45):
right?
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
So, yeah, and a lot of those will end up on video uh
on YouTube or or would end up onYouTube.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
There's gotta be a channel for that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
Things things not to do with nature.
SPEAKER_01 (23:57):
Well, well, Chris, let's talk about let's talk
about what what it is you'redoing.
Um, and you know, like therelike we've talked a lot about
podcasts.
We've thrown a lot out.
People are probably scratchingstuff down.
I probably need to put a ton oflinks in the show notes.
Um, like you know, longevity islike was nascent a couple years
(24:20):
ago.
I think that you've been one ofthe biggest influences and in
impactors in that space, and nowlike it's it's not anti-aging,
it's longevity, like it'squality of life, it's it's life
extension.
Like, this is a differentcategory that may build on top
of it or might have a Venndiagram overlay on top uh with
(24:41):
it, but but this is somethingtotally revolutionary, and like
I've seen like I've beenfollowing you on social media,
and when we talk, like I mean,there's full-blown conferences,
there's retreats, there's somany different products out
there, there's regimens.
Now they're talking about um inlike peptides and like like I
mean, everything's coming likefront front of mind, right?
(25:04):
Um, even and and so I would loveto hear your kind of framework
for how you're looking at theworld and how people should be
viewing health, maybe.
SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
Yeah, well, uh, I I I think they should be view
viewing health optimisticallyand longevity optimistically.
There's a thing called uh thelongevity escape velocity, which
the concept is in any givenyear, the medical community
extends life by slightly morethan a year, right?
And if you do the math on that,at some point there could be
(25:36):
somebody who is the last personto die of natural causes.
Uh, it would you know suck to bethat well, I guess they wouldn't
know, but it would suck to bethat person who's the last one
to die of natural causes.
And and so this longevity escapevelocity is something that I
wholeheartedly believe in.
And it sounds crazy, right,Chris?
So you believe that we can liveforever.
(25:57):
Uh, I think we can get there.
And here is the evidence that Iuse to do that.
Uh, so in 1950, medicalinformation doubled every 50
years, every five, zero years.
When I started talking aboutthis kind of piece and this
longevity escape velocity, uhbeginning of 2025, medical
information was doubling everythree months.
(26:19):
Now, this is hard to comprehend,but what that means is at the
end of 2026, we're gonna have 16times more information, medical
information, than we did at thebeginning, right?
So it's not just doubled,tripled, 16 times more
information at the end of 2026.
So if it is possible, it isgoing to happen, right?
(26:42):
We're gonna identify you knowsome of the key things, how to
extend telomeres, uh, how toaddress uh uh stem cell
depletion because of I'm gonnathrow out some stuff, but be
because of red bone marrowshrinkage.
We're gonna address the you knowchronic inflammation.
These things are gonna beaddressed.
Uh, and if you think about it,uh the fact that the information
(27:03):
is 16 times as much has nothingto do with AI, right?
Like, okay, maybe we can writepapers a little bit faster or
whatever, but the real value isthe uh immense amount of data
that AI can process.
For example, a really goodscientific experimenter wakes up
and they have 10, 50, 100 kindsof experiments, experiments that
(27:23):
they could run.
And they're like, ah, you know,whatever my subconscious brain
says we should do these three.
Whereas the AI can come in andgo, no, you shouldn't do those
three, right?
Like, because one's gonna failentirely.
And if the other two succeed, nobig deal.
You should do these threebecause they're more likely to
succeed in the area that youwant to, and they'll also have
(27:44):
add-on benefits in some otheryou know realm of biology.
So now not only is it 16 timesmore information, it's better
studies from the beginning.
And so I'm extremely excitedabout this.
SPEAKER_01 (27:57):
So, so so what I started thinking about when you
were talking was one, uh, Googlelike mapped all the proteins or
something like that a coupleyears ago.
And then as you were talking,you're like, oh, AI will be
like, let's just do all of them.
Like, and and well, um, becauseI'm starting to see uh, and
we're we're using this in adsets too, where where you can
(28:18):
have a um uh uh what is it, uhsynthetic audience, right?
So you can take a syntheticaudience, you can drop like a a
marketing message into thataudience, and you can see how it
impacts and kind of how thevirality spreads.
Um, you can take like just purecompute processing.
Um, you can put like a digitaltwin, you can create a digital
(28:39):
twin of this test and who you'regonna test it on, and then and
then you can run all these testssimultaneously and actually
figure out um uh what thatoutput is, or you can start with
the most uh beneficial youthink, and then build on that
data to to go through that wholecycle of testing, which could
(29:00):
take that 50 years, and youcould do it in you know 50 days
or something like that, right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
Yeah.
So then again, you know whattests to run, you know the most
optimized tests to run.
And and and that's really um, Ithink that's really exciting.
And and just to share, like theway I ended up here uh is
because of this molecule, right?
So I'm holding up a model of amolecule.
Uh if you're listening, justimagine a soccer ball where the
lines on the ball represent thebonds between the carbon atoms.
(29:29):
We have a spherical molecule of60 carbon atoms.
We call that ESS60.
Uh, I'll be real brief here.
I can talk for hours on thisstuff because it's just
fascinating.
And we're doing lots ofresearch.
We're starting clinical trialsthis year.
Um, but the molecule was thoughtto be toxic.
They put it in a toxicity studyinstead of being toxic, the test
subjects that they gave it to,in this case, Westar rats, lived
(29:51):
90% longer than the controlgroup.
So the single longest longevityexperimental results on mammals
in history, peer-reviewedpublished research, is because
of this molecule.
By the way, I've beenmanufacturing it since 1991,
right?
Um, like a long time before westarted eWeb style, eWeb
results, EWR digital.
(30:11):
Uh, I've been manufacturing andinvolved in this business from
then.
It just happens at the time thatI kind of started to step out of
EWR, um, the the the this movedinto the health and wellness
space and and the kind ofentrepreneurial opportunity
double, tripled or whatever.
And that's another thing that weneed to talk about today um is
is the is the gauntlet has beenhanded over, right?
(30:34):
The crown or the crown jewel ofdigital marketing has been
handed over.
And now Matt is the person uh totake this EWR crown uh and carry
it forward and you know, reallycarry it forward into the AI
generation.
Like that's a huge piece of it.
Uh so I'm I'm really uh excited.
You are complete owner.
(30:56):
Um, and this is I I feel veryhappy that it's going into the
hands of somebody who'sinterested in the legacy, right?
Like you when you wereinterested as the CEO in
changing the name, you were alsovery interested in keeping the
legacy with it, right?
So you could have gone from eWebstyle to just Matt's business or
whatever, whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (31:17):
Purple Gorilla.
I was going out like PurpleGorilla, we actually own that
domain, but and but wanted tokeep that legacy, right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:25):
Um, and so I really appreciate that you're carrying
this forward.
Um and I'm excited about thethings that you're gonna do uh
and and and keeping an eye onthat and staying in contact so
that we can uh share share greatstories.
SPEAKER_01 (31:38):
No, well, I I appreciate that, Chris.
And um, you know, it was it wasinteresting to see, like when we
saw the opportunity and mypharmaceutical background and
like what we were doing, uh, andlike to see the opportunity
grow.
Um, and that that's what Iwanted to highlight is Chris is
like so.
(31:58):
One is this Bucky Ball won aNobel Prize or something like
that.
Yeah, okay.
So this is like this is not justlike somebody in their garage
making something like this.
It was like one of the keyresearchers, which you
introduced me to, uh, was the uhlike um the assistant to the
person that discovered it atRice, uh and helped kind of get
(32:20):
get all this going when y'allgot it going.
And he's very entrepreneurial aswell and has a bunch of other
businesses.
Um but y'all manufacture it, youare the biggest manufacturers in
North America of something thatis very, very unique.
I remember when we started, I I,you know, I had some
(32:41):
pharmaceutical contacts, but wewere bringing in copackers and
we were bringing in differentpeople, and no one would touch
it because it wasn't based onbenzene, right?
And everything was kind of basedon benzene.
And so this is like completelyrevolutionary that almost
anybody that I was associatedwith in the in the pharma
industry didn't even know how toapproach this.
(33:02):
But as we started getting intolike personal medicine doctors,
they were like, Oh, we're buyingthis out of Switzerland and we
can only get very small doses ofit.
And like, I mean, so it wasthere was a nascent community
around this and the success.
And and then y'all startedmanufacturing it in a heavy way,
and it it just grew and grew andgrew.
(33:23):
And like for somebody that'slike works at night, you know,
or like, okay, like I'm not ashift worker, let's say, but
like, I mean, when you programor like when you're working,
like at night, it's quiet, likeyou don't, you know, there's
there's issues.
Um, like you're always lookingfor something to enhance your
cognitive ability, to to stayawake, to sleep, to um, well,
(33:45):
make sure you're healthy and youdon't have issues.
Um, and when I was on site withyou and like both businesses
were growing, okay, thetestimonials that came in blew
my mind.
And I know that you weren'tpaying for them, you weren't
doing it like anything, likelike the quality, also people
(34:07):
were buying what you wereproducing, watering it down,
okay, and then reselling it.
And you weren't doing that.
And I I mean, I started takingit.
I remember I gave it to my cat,it saved my cat's life.
That the the vet said there'sgonna die.
Like, I've seen this firsthand,I've heard the testimonials come
in, I know the quality of whatyou're making, and it's part of
(34:29):
actually my um well, my dailyroutine is is variable as it is,
but it would be part of my dailyroutine, it's certainly part of
my weekly routine.
I I always do take this stuff,and um, I I do just generally
feel better for for doing it,and I know that the quality's
there, and I know like I all thetestimonials in every area, like
(34:53):
it just makes your body operatebetter.
I mean, I don't know, you couldspeak to this better.
I just am looking at it from theoutside, looking in, and and it
it's just really incredible whatthis molecule does for people.
SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
Yeah, well, a couple things there.
So, one, uh, we startedmanufacturing this in 1991.
The guys who won the Nobel Prizewon the Nobel Prize in 1996, so
a whole five years before.
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
And they used your stuff, right?
SPEAKER_02 (35:18):
Yeah, well, to some degree, yeah.
Like basically every so I'm nota very braggadocious person, uh,
but this is as braggadocious asI'll get.
It's not unreasonable to suggestthat the fact that we were
delivering commercial quantitiesof this carbon nanomaterial to
scientists around the world andthey could get their hands on it
and they could run experimentson it, and they could understand
(35:40):
how valuable the molecule was,is part of the reason that those
three scientists, Dr.
Smalley, Dr.
Croto, and Dr.
Curl, won the Nobel Prize, atleast in terms of time frame.
So we're very early on.
You talked about uh some of thebenefits.
Our most consistent testimonialis people take it in the
morning, they report mentalfocus and energy during the day,
and then better sleep thatnight.
(36:01):
Um, those are all brain related,right?
And the reason they're all brainrelated is because of what's the
theory that behind what'sdriving this, which is the boss
theory.
So that sense for the bufferingoxidative stress system.
So um, long and short, we knowthe molecule gets into the
mitochondria from peer-reviewedpublished research.
Uh, and we know that themolecule can hold up to six
(36:24):
negatively charged particles.
So your mitochondria is anenergy source, right?
It's the powerhouse of everycell.
There's between 50 and 5,000cells and uh mitochondria in
every cell in your body, exceptfor your blood cells, which have
zero, and your brain andneurons, which have two million.
It's amazing how much energy ournervous system uses relative to
our other systems.
It's just off, it's off thecharts, right?
(36:45):
50 to 5,000, 2 million.
Um, when that energy sourceproduces the negative byproduct,
because every energy source youknow produces a negative
byproduct, like a car going downthe road has exhaust.
In this case, it's thesenegatively charged particles.
And because the ES is 60molecules in there, it can hold
on to them so they don't runaround and do a bunch of damage
(37:06):
and really give your uh yourmitochondria, your cells, the
buffer it needs in order tomanage these stress situations,
these reactive oxygen specieswithout having incurred damage.
Now, just a couple things liketo take something in the morning
and positively impact sleep atnight, that's phenomenal.
(37:28):
I'm not, you know, now I've beeneight years asking the question,
what do you know that you cantake in the morning and
positively impact sleep atnight?
Nobody, there isn't anything.
SPEAKER_01 (37:39):
Even impact you like weeks, months down the road from
what the studies have shown.
I mean, I know like I I did takeit this morning, uh, not because
you were gonna be on the show oranything, but I like actually
legit take it, like it's part ofmy regimen, and I'll I'll I'll
I'll you know, I have a bottleand I'll do a chug of it, you
know.
And um I I definitely like whenI know I need that cognitive
(38:04):
focus, it it's part of theregimen for that.
And and I mean, I don't know,like you're talking about I it
sounded like you're talkingabout like free radicals and
like you know, basically like uhit's a super antioxidant
essentially, um, like waystronger than some of the stuff
that's out there.
It's like like a like ultra offthe chart kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Well, there just real quick there's a study, uh
ad hoc study on the web, 172times more powerful than vitamin
C, peer-reviewed publishedresearch, 125 times more
powerful than vitamin C.
SPEAKER_01 (38:35):
Yeah, no, that that's what I was referencing.
I'm glad you articulated itbetter for the audience.
Um, it's legit.
Like uh it it's it's legit.
It it my cat's still alive,actually.
Um that's the cat's living likereally a lot, like way longer.
It's like I think it's like 17years, like the cat's really
wow, and they were gonna put itdown.
SPEAKER_02 (38:54):
What was that?
SPEAKER_01 (38:55):
Oh, that was that was five or six years ago.
Yeah, yeah, maybe longer.
Um, but I yeah, I I really buyinto the the longevity story,
and um, like I mean, I I've I Ialways ask you, like, is this
guy legit or like what is hesaying, or whatever?
But I mean, people are talkingof like getting old is a uh like
(39:16):
a disease that can be or aillness that can be cured, um,
is kind of how I'm starting tosee people talk about it.
I like you talk about technologyadvancements, you talk about
health advancements, and youknow, they're going they're
going hand in hand.
And I mean, I think that uh, youknow, uh my vital C is in the
conversation uh and what SESresearch is producing.
(39:38):
So um I I mean I think it'spretty incredible.
SPEAKER_02 (39:41):
Yeah, well, I like I said, I just recorded a podcast
with a uh kind of a cutting-edgeoptometrist, and he's like, This
is something uh I'm alreadygiving to my clients, and I want
to like focus on your productsince you guys are the
originators, right?
So um if you well, and your eyeshave a uh a significantly higher
quantity of mitochondria in themanyway, rods, cones, um, you
(40:04):
know, different parts of youreyes, because they're so
intricate intricately uhcombined with your brain, right?
Like your eyes and brain and andactually even dental work um is
all like one uh nervous systemall tied together.
So um, yeah, it's exciting.
One of the things that I do loveabout pet testimonials, right?
Anytime you're hearing aboutsomething new, something that's
(40:26):
going through your head shouldbe like what what percentage of
the impact is due to the placeboeffect?
Because there is some.
Like the placebo effect impactsmedications, it impacts your
workout.
If you do a workout and areconvinced it won't do anything
for you, it in fact will do lessfor you, right?
Like that's how powerful theplacebo uh effect is.
The thing with pets is there'sno placebo effect, right?
(40:49):
Like your pet is alive, notbecause of a your like of a
placebo effect, it's because uhthis had some benefits for your
cat.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Yeah, well, I think placebo is about mindset, okay?
And and like I was listeningthis morning, there was a study
that said, like, if you'rethinking about practicing
something, like a musicalinstrument or something like
that, 50% impact of actuallypracticing is thinking about
practicing, and that's howpowerful the brain is.
(41:19):
And so being in a positive stateof mind, focusing on what you're
like directing your attention onuh impacts it.
Like, if you're like, I'm thisis gonna heal my body, and
you're saying that and you'retelling yourself that, like your
body's gonna like fix itself,right?
Yeah, and and where medicationand supplements and all these
(41:39):
other things come in is to giveit like extra um firepower to to
be able to for the immune systemto do what it naturally does.
I mean, the body naturally healsitself, uh, like something like
what is it, like the cells turnover every um, I don't know,
seven months or like, or I don'tknow, I don't know what all
depends on the cells, right?
SPEAKER_02 (41:58):
Your skin's sloughing off all the time, your
muscles is every three months.
Every three months, every cell,every muscle cell you have uh
has been replaced.
SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
That is insane.
Like, so we're recruiting, likewe're I mean, we're turning over
all this stuff, and so to to togive the mitochondria the the
ability to to do that, I thinkthat there's other um you know
mechanisms of action uhassociated with it, but I mean,
I don't know.
I I I just know that uh this isgonna be huge and it is huge
(42:32):
afield, and um, you know, I'mseeing kind of AI uh and kind of
digital marketing and and allthat are are people are being
affected by it first.
Like uh Chris, the last twoagency owners that I
interviewed, um, that are likepower users of of AI, um, in
like the the pre-interview,post-interview, like we've had
(42:54):
some lengthy conversations evenduring the interview.
Like, I'm seeing that thesemarketers are are are being
empowered to step outside ofmarketing and help businesses
and other kinds of operationsbecause you you the AI is
affecting everything, right?
(43:14):
And it affected marketing first,maybe HR, legal review, but like
to become like a a connectedworker and understand how all
these things work, that's thenew next skill set that um is
needing to be developed.
And I think even when likepeople are getting interviewed,
it's like, do you know?
Like, I remember uh someone wasjoking with me that uh back in
(43:37):
the day, uh you people put ontheir resume uh understanding of
the world wide web.
And that was that was actuallylike something that uh
businesses were looking for andneeded to understand.
I feel like AI is the same way.
Like, how AI native are you?
Um, uh, do you understand howthese systems work?
(43:58):
Uh, how productive can you be?
And it's not just understandingwhat it is, but it's
understanding like how to applyit, how to use it.
Um, and and I I just think thatthat's gonna be the next
conversation.
And I think that a lot of peoplethat were impacted early by AI
um uh are are gonna have uh suchexponential opportunity because
(44:21):
they they use it day in, dayout.
Because like when I get outsideof this bubble that I'm in, and
if you're listening to thispodcast, you're certainly in the
bubble.
Um and you talk to people likehow they're using AI, I'm
they're like, oh well, like weput it in a spreadsheet and like
oh, it came up with somenumbers, or like, oh, we we used
(44:42):
it to like help we use Copilot alot to help us write email, or
the best one is um, I'm using AIoverviews, I'm using AI
overviews, Google.
So they're using they're usingAI, and guess what?
They're not wrong, they areusing AI, but it's like that
that image of uh the iceberg,you know, and and they're and
(45:04):
they're touching the tip of theiceberg, and and um and I I just
I don't know, I think that thisis where uh everything's going.
I I have been debating onchanging the name quite a quite
a while of the podcast.
I just you know, I I I you knowyou start over when you do that
and people can't find you.
And uh I think uh we still havesearch volume for e e-web style,
(45:27):
not as much.
That tails uh that tail wasquite long but shortened, but e
web results people still dosearch for and we do have the
domains redirected uh to EWRdigital.
Um and so, you know, I mean itit's hard when you're in a world
that continues to shift andthings keep changing, and things
that were bad for you are nowgood for you, and thing, you
(45:49):
know, like things uh onlinecontinue to change.
And I think that we just reallyas humans uh live in a state of
uh being able to adapt to achanging world, and that's like
the only thing that's consistentis kind of the the jagged edge
of unstability of where thingsare going and uh understanding
(46:11):
your your place in that and uhhow to trend transverse that
landscape.
SPEAKER_02 (46:16):
Yeah, I I think uh so I I listened to uh a podcast
called Moonshots, which is a lotof AI get changed over to AI,
and one day uh I'm driving towork and I'm like, and I've you
know, we've got a successfulcompany here, but part of me is
like, should I stop everythingI'm doing and focus on AI,
right?
Because they were, I don't knowhow frequently their episodes
(46:38):
were coming out, but now it'stwo and sometimes three times a
week because AI is changing somuch and it's gonna be so
impactful.
Uh, and then my ultimateconclusion was no, I should use
AI inside of my environment asmuch as possible.
How do I leverage and multiplythe productivity um so that
we're you know we're we'regenerating more value uh faster?
(47:00):
And so that's you know, I I'mnot quitting what I'm doing.
I love what I'm doing.
Uh I'm utilizing AI for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
Yeah, I've had that same battle uh because we're
we're so heavily entrenched inAI.
Um, I I think it's starting tobe ubiquitous and and what we're
doing and how we're doingthings.
And really, Moonshots tells youwhere everything's going and
space and uh longevity, and theybring on different people.
(47:29):
And it's really good to likeunderstand the like 10-year like
strategy, yeah.
Um, and then walking it all theway back to like what we're
talking about as far as like theimplementation and the
execution.
And that's been the feedback,Chris, that I've gotten as like,
and and we've been labeled aslike an advanced uh SEO podcast
(47:52):
or whatever, but I think reallymaybe uh getting re-categorized
into the AI category because I Ilike a lot of these
conversations and how they applyto business operations and how
to think about governance andand all that sort of thing.
And and marketing like certainlygets impacted by that, and
that's like a big swath of who'sgoing to be affected.
(48:14):
Um, and I mean how brandspresent online and like what is
their their reputation and howdo you leverage all that is a
huge surface area of of what AIcovers because it's the spoken
language.
Um, you know, I see with likeagain multimodal uh AI coming
out, um, the surface areas areare are certainly changing and
(48:37):
um evolving.
And I think people, and again, Ineed to get more on the YouTube
on on kind of the implementationand and showing people how to do
this stuff, but that's that'swhere I I think it's going is
like the execution component.
And I like highlightingdifferent case studies.
So when people reach out to me,and if you're listening, you
(48:57):
want to come on the podcast andyour agency owner, I'd love to
hear how you're using it, howyou're thinking about it, what
are the mental models and theframeworks that you're using to
put this all together?
Because you have all thesedifferent uh siloed systems and
trying to get them to connect.
Um, and and like we're workingon a new org chart right now,
(49:21):
Chris, where we have two AIemployees integrated on the work
chart.
And and what do we give themaccess to?
And you know, what are theirjobs and defining their duties?
And like, I mean, that's anamalgamation of what we learned
in EOS, uh, and agile and likeso so I I just have like a hats
(49:41):
off to marketers that I I thinkthat sometimes they get put in
in a category of like this, butto be able to do that, they have
to know everything, especiallySEO.
You have to know everything, andso I I think that there's gonna
be an elevation of people thatunderstand how the algorithms
(50:02):
work and programmers that canarticulate this knowledge to
executives are gonna be elevatedinto the room, into the
boardroom, into theconversations because they're
the ones that have the data,they're the ones that have the
knowledge and the know-how tomake this stuff happen.
And and I think that there'sgonna be a huge transformation
of what it means to be an agencyor a firm uh in the space and
(50:24):
and how they work withbusinesses.
And, you know, again, there'sgonna be a tail on that as well.
And there's gonna be a lot ofpeople that that probably don't
change fast enough, but thepeople that are listening to
this podcast are the people thatare making those changes and
those steps.
And you have to grow and youhave to learn like anything
else.
And it's like almost taking likesystem thinking and and becoming
(50:46):
like a programmer, like aprogrammer brain to take that
into operations uh andmarketing.
And so there's there's so manydifferent disciplines that that
you have to learn uh to make itall fit together.
Um for me, like I I I you know,I'm a little bit uh idea for
you, and so I love it.
Um, and then I have great peoplethat I can take that and hand it
(51:11):
to uh like Shantae or Jeff, andjust like go put this together,
operationalize it, train theteam and and get it pushed out
there.
And we've been bringing on uh anumber of new people.
We've hired four people in thelast month.
Um, and and so uh there's a lotof great things we're doing over
at EWR.
I I don't promote it enough.
Go go check it out.
(51:32):
We are open to sponsors now.
I didn't want to take onsponsors when I was going
through the Goldman program, butum we are open to sponsors that
align with like these coregoals.
Um, you know, like one of theone of the things we just landed
on on the other podcast was uhactually from like a hiring uh
standpoint, like a hiringgrading standpoint, uh utilizing
(51:54):
uh AI uh like a grader.
Um but yeah, like I mean,there's so many different ways
to look at this, but where I seeeverything going is kind of like
a like a connected worker umthat understands how to use all
these tools.
And that that maybe started inmarketing, but but branches out
into to a lot of other things.
(52:15):
And uh, you know, Chris, I likeI I'm sharing this for the first
time with the audience, and youand I like have these great
lunches and like we go deep inall these different ways, but I
I really feel like this call islike coming full circle because
I remember um when when I uhwhen you you like I was a
consultant and you like hired meand and um and then I was like
(52:39):
it was like three months in, Iwas like, I'm writing a book.
Do you want to tell that story?
SPEAKER_02 (52:44):
Because I well, here's what I know about that
story.
At one point, I don't know ifwe'll call it a Tuesday.
Matt's like, hey, uh, I'mwriting a book.
Uh you would you write theforeword to the book?
Uh and I was like, Yeah, okay.
In my head, it was like, yeah,you know, we got months, he's
got to write a book.
Like, I'm happy to do that.
And then I think on Friday hewas like, Yeah, I'm gonna need
(53:06):
that for word because the book'salready done.
And like, we were in the middleof kind of a turnaround in NEWR.
So in the middle of thisturnaround, which is you know
stressful and and lots of hours,um, he's also writing a book.
So yeah, you're you you you tendto kind of go all in when you're
uh you know, you when you setgoals and then uh accomplish
(53:29):
them really quickly.
So it's really cool.
SPEAKER_01 (53:30):
Well, well, the the the book was was really just
documenting the turnaroundefforts for anybody that wants
to read it.
It's really like my story oflike coming into this and seeing
uh from my eyes like the insideof an agency and um what are the
different components and how allthose things work and
(53:52):
documenting because I waslearning so much.
The only way I know how to likeum remember everything that I
learn is to like write it downon paper.
And so I love to document stuff,and now I love to use AI to
recall what I'm learning, andthat's the big area uh for that
we haven't talked about.
And I am gonna bring on a buddyof mine that that's heavy and
(54:14):
has a bunch of patents in thisspace is memory, okay.
Memory, long-term perpetualmemory to remember the right
kind of things and like thinkabout it.
Like when we go to sleep, Chris,bringing it back to health.
When we go to sleep, I believelike our brain is taking all the
information we've learned andcompressing it and processing it
(54:35):
and then storing it intolong-term memory from short-term
memory.
And that's why it's important tosleep to kind of process that
session.
And AI is not like exactly likea map of the brain, but it works
pretty similar to how kids learnand processes learn with with
all the different nodes of whenyou build an LM.
(54:56):
Um, but remembering something uhand remembering the right thing
and not remembering like likeweighting the memory and the
judgment, like how how to mapall that um is is, I think, like
the next big thing, right?
And and I saw that even withChat GBT four to five, which a
(55:17):
lot of people were unhappy aboutbecause it it had perpetual
memory and then it was turnedoff, and then people went to
other models.
But it's like it it gets fixatedon one thing that you've been
talking about recently becausethere's a decay in the memory,
and it just um, you know, uhwill focus on that thing
completely.
And then people say like AI getsobsessed with certain things,
(55:38):
but it's it's about awaiting anda decay process.
And and and again, it goes backto governance of how you use
this stuff and how how you needto have different sessions and
how you need to bring in theinformation and the recall, and
like even if you're liketraining it like with different
skills, like what skillssupersede other skills.
So if you're building a company,um, well, you know, if there's a
standardized way of doing thingsand then you have a personalized
(56:00):
way of doing things, the companyweight maybe should supersede
that in certain indices, unlessyou break that rule.
Like, you got to think throughall this stuff, but that's for
another call, everybody.
Hopefully, you've enjoyed thishour.
I do have a hard stop and wegotta get going.
But Chris, we'll definitely umhave you back on.
SPEAKER_02 (56:18):
Um I'll add one quick point uh on my podcast.
So live beyond the norms.
Uh, please go check it out.
I interviewed Randall Cohen, uh,he is the founder of Carbon
Copies uh organization.
So their mission uh is to takethe brain and stick it in
silica.
Uh and he's been doing like beenworking and focusing on this for
(56:38):
a long time.
Fascinating interview.
Um, just had parallels with whatyou were were talking about,
like kind of memory storage.
SPEAKER_01 (56:45):
Well, Chris, I love our conversations and we we've
talked about continuing uh thoseum beyond the the the buyout,
and and and um I would love tokeep having you back on the
podcast to keep everybodyupdated because I think that
there's a lot of like biohackersor like kind of like I've had
nootropic companies reach outand sponsor the podcast.
(57:07):
So, like I like optimizing ourbrains are are something that I
think uh a lot of listeners havean interest in.
I know I have an interest in.
And every time I talk to you,you teach me something new, like
I want to stay up to date withthat.
So I'd love to have you on as aum a recurring guest.
I think uh the audience wouldenjoy that as well.
Um, before we go, tell peoplelike you are, I mean, if you
(57:31):
just start to look for you know,uh ESS60 or My Vital C or search
Chris Burst.
I mean, he's all over theinternet.
Like you're you're I mean,you're blowing up, like really
you're blowing up.
Um, but how do people find you?
How do they follow you?
How do they find out more aboutthis product that you know
changes your brain and uhextends your longevity?
(57:52):
Potentially, like, you know, no,like asterisk, like yeah, yeah,
asterisk, asterisk, asterisk.
SPEAKER_02 (57:58):
Um, yeah, you can find me my vitals c as in carbon
myvital c dot com.
Uh the podcast is called LiveBeyond the Norms.
Uh, so you can find live beyondthe norms.com, can subscribe
with your favorite podcast app.
Um, and then on social media,it's under my battle c and yeah,
we're pushing out.
I'm I'm you know, from thepodcast, I'm pushing out six
(58:20):
pieces of content per day.
Uh, so once you kind of get inthe envelope, uh, you'll see me
a lot.
Maybe you'll get tired of me.
Uh, maybe you'll just give me athumbs up, add a comment.
I would love that.
And uh, and yeah, so it's prettyeasy to to to find me.
SPEAKER_01 (58:34):
Well, Chris, I just want to thank you for our
decade-long plus friendship uhand uh uh uh co uh uh uh
employer, uh uh in like uhco-working, like all of the
things.
Um uh you've been a meaningfulimpact in my life, and uh I'm
glad to be able to share shareyou and what you're doing with
(58:56):
the audience.
Um, thank you so much for beingon.
Um, for everybody out there, ifyou want to grow your business
with the largest, most powerfultool on the planet, the
internet, and now I say AI aswell.
Uh, reach out to EWR for morerevenue in your business.
Thank you so much for being on.
Please shico us, Chris.
(59:19):
Share, like, follow us.
Uh, and until the next time, myname is Matt Bertram.
Bye bye for now.
Chris Furnes.
SPEAKER_02 (59:28):
Bye bye for now.
This is the unknown secrets of internet marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential.
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Howdy, welcome back to another fun-filled episode of
the Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
I am your host, Matthew Bertram.
I have a special guest foreveryone today, for the longtime
listeners.
You'll recognize his voice.
Uh, I have Chris Burris on theshow.
Chris, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Hello, Matt.
It was great hearing that intromusic.
I haven't heard that intro musicin a very long time.
Um, and I don't do you know theorigin of that music?
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
Your buddy's band, right?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (00:45):
It's a band that that went defunct.
Um, and and I loved that music.
And the title of that song isGold Mine, um, which I think
there's a gold mine inmarketing, there's a gold mine
in internet marketing, there's agold mine uh in SEO.
So I I I always liked the songand and thought it was
appropriate.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
And for you first-time listeners or recent
listeners, uh, Chris is actuallythe founder of EWR, uh, as well
as he was the original host ofthis podcast.
We co-hosted it for a long time,uh, and then I've eventually
taken it over.
And um, you know, Chris and Istay in contact, and uh, I just
(01:26):
thought it'd be fun to bring himback on the show.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Yeah.
Uh, you know, you you mentionedthe founder of EWR.
There's been uh a journey evenwith the title with the name.
And by the way, you know, one ofthe things, and um that I I
think you you know, there's lotsof places that I have lots of
room to improve in.
Uh, one of the places that I'mgood is I don't get emotionally
attached to some things thatother people do.
(01:50):
As an example, our companyinitially was eWebstyle.com,
right?
So, and it had a hyphen, ehyphen webstyle.
And funny story, uh uh anotherbusiness partner couldn't find
it because he didn't use thehyphen, but we didn't have the
choice, right?
So we so we just were stuck withit.
But at some point, my businesscoach comes to me and says, Hey,
(02:11):
I'm I'm kind of like pitchingyou guys to work with these
clients, and I'm talking abouthow you're focused on results,
and then the name of the companyis eWeb style.
And he was like, I think youshould change it to eWeb
results.
And it took me, I don't know, 30seconds, like, uh, yeah, okay,
yeah, done.
And then then we were ewebresults, and then as you came
(02:34):
in, sort of taking over the CEOrole, uh, you wanted to kind of
go for bigger uh marketing, goafter bigger markets um and kind
of bigger clients, and you feltlike a consolidation of the
name.
I don't uh if you want to shareyour logic on that, uh, but it's
it's that's been a journey inand of itself.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
I I still like the name e Web Results, I think it
represents uh what we do uh andwho we are.
Um, I think it was kind of whenevery all there was a lot of
like uh refresh of brand names,uh like KFC, Kentucky Fried
Chicken.
And so I really wanted to uhhonor uh what we had built and
(03:10):
what you had built.
And so EWR is actually e-webresults.
Yeah, a lot of people think it'suh tied into New York Airport,
and we are uh looking atlaunching a campaign that's
talking about we we have a lotof publicly traded companies and
international companies now, andkind of like the uh runway to
(03:31):
the skies, or you know, therethe marketing team's been coming
up with some different ideasabout it's like a uh an
international hub for marketing.
Um, and and yeah, I I think EWRdigital, um, when I look back at
it, uh eWeb results is a lotmore memorable.
So from even a like a brandingname, there's uh I think a lot
(03:53):
of value in that.
And um, you know, that that wasdefinitely an experience to go
through a rebrand for anybodythat's gone through a rebrand.
Uh, that's that's a really longand hard decision.
And then there's a lot that goesinto changing everything over,
especially when you're a 25 plusyear company, Chris.
SPEAKER_02 (04:12):
So yeah.
Well, and and and it's funny howold of a company are we that we
have E, right?
Because electronic was a bigthing, EWR result.
So um, so very cool.
That's been that's been afantastic uh piece of the
journey.
I I I'm the old guy, right,who's been uh on a podcast since
(04:34):
2009, right?
So here we are 2026.
Like I don't know.
That's uh uh what is that 16wait, if it's 2010, that would
be 16, 17 years uh ofpodcasting.
Because I do have a podcast nowcalled Live Beyond the Norms, uh
related to what I focus on uh ona daily basis now.
(04:56):
Uh, but yeah, I'm I'm uh I don'tI guess an old school podcaster.
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
Well, I you know, the the E like the E- certainly
dates the name and and I thinkthat um you know it it was time
to to update from thatstandpoint, but I think that
shows um tenure and likestability and length.
And then, you know, when wewould joke even eight years ago,
(05:22):
uh when it was starting to gethot, uh, we were saying that you
know, podcasting before it wascool, it was really a means to
communicate uh information to aremote team, uh like of like
what's going on and what changesare being made.
And I I really think that thatformat now, the one to many,
it's a way to disseminateinformation.
(05:44):
And I know that I've you know,I've done a lot of interviews
recently, and you and I weretalking about it previously, but
for the audience, I was goingthrough a Goldman Sachs NBA,
which I may or may not havementioned uh on an episode or
two.
And I basically prior to that,because there's been a couple
summers where when you when whenyou were a lot more involved,
(06:06):
Chris, um like we didn't keep upthe cadence of the weekly
podcast, and that was part ofpeople's ritual, and and we lost
a lot of audience uh during thatframe, and a lot of other people
came out doing stuff, and and solike I had remembered that
lesson, and and so I banked alot of podcasts and I I really
just dripped them uh since thebeginning of the year.
(06:28):
Uh and you know, I I have a lotof great guests that are uh in
the works uh in line as I'm alot more active.
And you know, I know you and Iwanted to maybe talk about some
of the things you're doing withyour podcast, and I know a lot
of other people have startedpodcasts, um, and it's not an
immediate uh successful likeresult, like SEO.
(06:51):
Like you make a couple changesand then boom, like you got some
improvements and things aregetting indexed quickly.
It compounds over time.
Um, but there are certain thingsthat you can do and learn that
are shortcuts in how to be abetter podcaster or how to be
better at content distribution.
SPEAKER_02 (07:10):
Yeah, I well, so one, the immediate results.
I'll I'll share how long it tookbefore we got our first call.
The way we ended up starting thepodcast is uh we had a sales
manager, and I didn't know hewas the first really kind of the
first hire, and I didn't knowlike how to train him, right?
So it's like, hey, here's thispodcast.
I can't even remember the nameof the podcast.
(07:31):
Some of this is out of NewJersey or something.
Hey, listen to this.
And he probably like uh a weeklater came and said, Hey, why
don't we do our own podcast?
Uh that was probably on aMonday.
That Friday, we recorded ourfirst podcast.
Like, like that, that was like,how do we jump on these things?
That makes a lot of sense.
And so, one great way to trainup people who are coming on
(07:52):
board, Hake, like this is howyou do SEO.
Two, to what you mentioned, thisis how you kind of have
cohesiveness in the team, right?
So everyone on the team islistening to the podcast,
they're on the same page, theyhave the same enthusiasm, the
same excitement.
Um, and then of course, youknow, potentially as a marketing
strategy, uh, I can tell you wedidn't get our first phone call
(08:13):
for 12 months, right?
So we were putting a weeklypodcast out.
Uh was it weekly?
It was weekly uh podcast out andfor 12 months uh before we even
got our first, like, hey, uh,you know, uh you guys exist.
I hear you.
Um, so yeah, it can be a longerstrategy.
And and there are things that Iwould um that I would might do
(08:35):
differently um uh now because wedidn't do interviews really
until you came on board.
And and that's a it's a smartstrategy to do interviews.
Now I'll tell you kind of in theYouTube space and kind of what
from my experience now, becauseI I actually uh record and put
out two podcasts per week forLiv Beyond.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
So I just want to say, like, Chris is on the level
of content production as like anAlex Hermozi.
Like, I am serious, and you'vemet Alex Hermozy, like I mean,
Gary Vanderchuk, whatever, likeyou are pumping out in your
vertical more content thananybody I've ever seen.
(09:16):
Like doing the online where youdid like 60 interviews, it was
like an online conference.
I mean, you've taken podcastingto the next level.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Well, I'm gonna share the there's two pieces to
this story that you're involvedin.
Um, so one, I remember when wefirst started working together,
one of your statements was hey,companies of the future need to
be a media company.
And in my in my head, I waslike, like I like okay, it
didn't really resonate.
(09:46):
And I'm in a studio now, right?
Like I know, like I'm literallyat this office, have a studio,
and I believe that as a company,we're doing the right thing when
I'm in this studio because weare now a media company, uh, and
that's really important.
The other piece being on podcastreally wasn't on my radar.
(10:07):
So I'm not talking about youknow having a podcast.
Being on podcast wasn't on myradar.
You came to me and you said,I've got this vendor who will
get you on podcasts.
Um, it's not in my budget rightnow.
I need you to buy from this guyso that he gets you on podcasts
because I think I need to keephim in my heap hip pocket and I
think it'll be a value.
(10:28):
What a great decision, right?
Like, so now at this companyI've hired like five different
companies to get me on differentpodcasts.
Um, I I think I have two orthree, uh, right.
Well, at least two interviewinganother to get me on podcast
because this is a viablestrategy.
Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Okay, so Chris, I want to ask you this question.
I know you were gonna probablyget here, but I I wanted to
interview style ask you thisquestion.
SPEAKER_03 (10:50):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
What is the most money?
Or if you don't want to sharethat, yeah, but what is the most
money that you've ever spent toget on a podcast?
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Oh, uh the most money I have ever spent was
$30,000 to get onto a podcast.
Um, and we spent that at the endof last year, and um, and that
was for Dave Asprey's podcast,right?
Uh, that was uh ostensibly 30minutes of being on his podcast.
Uh, and I will share it was wellworth it.
(11:20):
Like I like if I could if Icould do that every whatever
time period, uh, I wouldcontinue to do that because that
was uh, you know, when whenhere's what I joke, because I've
been on like 140 differentpodcasts, and and what I say is
if that podcast has audience,which they usually don't, right?
(11:41):
And if that podcast, pat podcaster has influence, which they
even have less influence thanthey have audience typically,
uh, then it will move theneedle.
So a lot of the podcasts that Igo on, barely traceable sales,
but I'm gonna tell the story,right?
You should be comfortabletelling the story to anyone who
will listen.
And if you could potentially geton a podcast and tell it to 10
(12:04):
to 100 people instead of justone, you should do that.
Like that's that's my opinion.
There may be some point whereum, you know, we're generating
enough value and it's not worthmy time to do that.
I have a hard time seeing wherethat is.
I just believe uh I'll I'llshare with you.
I just recorded a podcast.
Uh the guys in the vision space,he we start talking about my
(12:24):
product.
He's like, Oh, I've been lookingfor you, right?
Like for you related to myproduct.
Um, I sell a lot of this stuff,so uh I want to use you, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I didn't I didn't know that wasgonna happen, right?
That's because um I'm going andby the way, a couple things.
A previous interview I did, heasked the pre that person, very
big in the space, her name's JJVirgin.
(12:46):
Um, he she's been on TV on allsorts of kind of uh physical
training stuff, and she waslike, Oh, yeah, that was a the
that interview was a lot of fun,right?
So I'm building theserelationships, and it's one of
the things that I think isreally valuable.
Now I will say, right, because Iuh before we started, you were
saying I've got like my goal islike three interviews and then
one of your kind of summaries.
(13:08):
I will share it's been told tome, and I look at the data in
terms of like audience size andvisibility.
It should be three of youtalking and sharing your
expertise and one interview,interview.
Use the interview to kind ofcollaborate and share audience
and build a relationship.
And then what people areinterested in is like, hey, how
(13:28):
do I do SEO?
Oh my god, how do I do SEO foruh AI?
Right.
And and is it different if Iwant to do well on Grok or I
want to do well on um on Geminior Chat G, like those are the
things that people will tuneinto and connect with you and
ask questions about.
So anyway, that just just Irambled there.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Yeah, no, I I mean I have a whiteboard right here
behind me.
I have everything ready to go.
It's uh it's just getting thetime.
I think uh I'm I'm speaking atuh OTC next week and then uh
about AI.
Uh okay, hold on.
SPEAKER_02 (14:00):
So you just said I'm speaking at OTC next week.
Most of the people, unlessthey're in the Houston area,
don't know what it is.
So it's Offshore TechnologyConference.
Yeah, they don't know how big itis.
Like this is Shell Erickson,right?
This is every major oil company,and then really major service
company from the level of of uhof just making generators or uh
(14:23):
everything downhole oil and gasrelated.
Uh, it's it's an amazingconference.
And the fact that you'respeaking there is is huge.
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
It's yeah, it's the biggest uh oil and gas
conference in the world.
Um, and and I've been going toit for a long time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:39):
By the way, I don't I don't know if anyone out there
knows.
Um, oil and gas has a big impactin the world.
I guess we we know that nowbecause of the straight of our
moves.
But like it's huge, the biggestof the most important industry.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
Yeah, and and that's really um EWR uh focuses on
regulated industries.
So we work a lot in healthcare.
Uh, we got a big footprint herein the Houston area, uh, as well
as with oil and gas.
We actually just got uh notifiedfor uh uh AMA finalists uh for
uh AI Digital TransformationAward, and that's for a publicly
(15:16):
traded oil company that we'reworking with.
SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Um American Marketing Association Marketing
Association, yeah.
We've got a couple trophicaltrophies from them from there
already.
SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
Yeah, I um I need to do a better job talking about
what EWR does.
Um, when I look at the audiencesets, uh EWR has a very
different audience set than thepodcast.
I think that a lot of the peoplethat are podcasters are um other
agencies, uh freelancers, webdevelopers, and and I I really
think AI and governance is iswhat I'm talking a lot more
(15:51):
about now.
And I'm trying to insert it intothe conversation a little bit
more, but that is really why Ibought um Motal Point, uh, which
is uh a go-to-market consultancyfor oil and gas from as we're
talking about podcasts.
Uh, this was his former businessbefore he started OGGN, oil and
gas global network, which is thelargest uh oil and gas
(16:13):
podcasting network.
And so, you know, certainlyChris, um you, you know, we had
the case study, which I think isstill on the website where uh we
had limited budget and westarted getting you into
podcasts, and now it's like yourKPI for for what you're doing.
Um, so I guess that this episodeis about, well, let's talk about
some longevity at some point,but um but but about podcast
(16:36):
marketing um has really been uhinfluential and in how I've
viewed the world and and I thinkit's a part of a go-to-market
strategy about content creation.
And so really drank our ownKool-Aid, but I'm seeing with
what is happening with AI andpower users of AI will
(16:56):
understand what I'm talkingabout, or if we're talking about
automation, is reallyunderstanding like even like a
developer like governance um andlike permissions and like who
has the judgment to makedecisions, because I think it
all starts there.
So, like all the marketing thatwe're doing and how to make a
company AI first, and like we'regetting a lot of those kind of
(17:18):
uh opportunities with EWR.
Um, but it but before all that,like you you gotta make some
really hard decisions and mapeverything out.
And and and I think that thatwas a little bit too much for
EWR to do it all.
And so I wanted to have adedicated focus to that, and
we're working a lot in energy,and so it it it really made a
(17:39):
lot of sense.
Um uh as Mark was um, you know,uh looking to exit.
And and so so I put my hat inthe ring and and and we talked
about it and and uh got got thatdone.
And and so that's a new brandthat that we're we're launching.
And for those of you that uh arelooking for podcasts where you
want to hear my opinion, uh I dodo a podcast called uh oil and
(18:04):
gas sales and marketing, but alot of it has to do uh with just
general marketing, but it'sapplied to oil and gas.
Um, and I bring the marketingside of it, Mark brings the
sales side of it, and then we dobring on other guests.
So that that's kind of adifferent angle.
And so you might get a lot of uhmy thoughts there.
So might want to go check thatout as well.
SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
Very cool.
And so your talk at OTC, theoffshore technology conference,
uh, is on AI governance.
Is that is that kind of whatthat talk is about?
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Well, funny enough, I got asked to speak about AI
governance, yes.
Uh, and then when we got on thecall, they asked me to moderate
the the panel.
And so really uh Ericsson is umsetting up their own kind of
private networks uh for peopleto run agents on.
Um there's more to that, andthey have a number of clients,
(18:56):
and so we're gonna be uh well,I'm gonna be moderating a talk
and I'm gonna just kind ofprovide a governance framework.
There's a lot of things that arehappening in AI, and a lot of
people haven't talked aboutgovernance yet.
A lot of people are talkingabout application, but the
conversation in the regulationsand like the laws are are are
(19:16):
getting ahead of what people aretalking about.
And and there's a little bit ofa mismatch, and there's some
fines and there's some issues,and people are gonna start
asking.
That's why I joined the uh AIPP,the International Association of
Privacy Professionals, of likedata governance of what are
people doing with their data?
(19:37):
Like, where are you sending itto?
Who has access to it?
Like these questions are gonnastart getting asked, like AI
policies internally at acompany, like these are things
that haven't been talked about.
Everybody's just talking aboutoutput and like performance, but
but yeah, we're seeing a lotwith tools, things are breaking,
like how is it grabbinginformation?
(19:58):
Like, um, you know, there'salways been the issue of like uh
people using images that arelicensed by somebody else, like
like all these AIs are ingestingall this data, and how does how
is that controlled, you know?
Um, so sorry, I have a clientcalling me.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
Yeah, no, I think yeah, I think that's really
right.
A AI, you know, again,productivity is is off the
charts, and I'm excited about umuh you know what what's coming
down the pipe uh in in in AI,but you you you often you know
you're so excited and jump in touse it that you're not thinking
about what are the risks, right?
(20:36):
What are the business risks,what are the data risks, and I
think that's um that's reallyimportant that you're that
you're talking about that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
Well, that like okay, so like when AI came on
the scene, we certainly startedplaying around with it early,
but I I didn't talk about itimmediately because this is like
how my brain works and like anew technology, I'm one that
wants to read the manual.
Okay, like, and so like I I'vedone a lot of the online
trainings, uh, I've done a lotof like masterminds workshops.
(21:05):
Like, I really wanted to get myhead around it.
I took some courses at Harvardand Oxford, and like I just I
wanted to get a very, very solidfoundation before I started
talking about it.
And I knew that this was gonnabe bigger than the internet.
My mom was one of the firstemployees of Microsoft.
I saw what happened with theinternet, I was like, this is
gonna be bigger.
Like, let me build thatfoundation.
(21:26):
And what I'm finding out, Chris,as I'm talking to people, um,
they don't have the samefoundational knowledge as me.
So I can't, I have to kind ofwalk back um what I'm saying to
get them to the point where wecan have a conversation about
something.
Um, and you know, I I I thinkI'm relying a lot on all the
(21:49):
hours and all the things that Idid to put in to help frame my
mental map of like how to dealwith this and where I sit today.
I'm like, anytime we Look at asystem or you know, some kind of
marketing system that we'rebuilding, or what we're doing
with automation, or like what'sa client doing, it's like
assessing what they're currentlydoing, what their current
(22:11):
workflows are, what they'reusing it, and then how we can
apply um different applications,and how do we get the team to
become like a connected workerand hooked into like this new
way of thinking?
And I think that that's the stepchange that's going to be really
difficult for a lot ofbusinesses because there's a
statistic out there thatsomething like 71% of businesses
(22:32):
are still operating like they'rein the industrial era, and
they're copying and pasting likethings from one spreadsheet to
another.
And it's like that can all bedone through like APIs and
hooks, and you know, and so Idon't know.
I I think that now people aregetting confronted with okay,
the world is changing, I need tochange with it.
How do I do it?
(22:53):
I believe it all starts withgovernance and and um well, you
know, cybersecurity is acomponent of that.
We do that with Cohosta, but umI don't know, like the world's
in a different place now, and Ithink people are running really
hard, and you hear all thesehorror stories about AI, but
it's like because people like ifyou give somebody a bunch of
(23:15):
weapons, you know, and you don'tteach people how to pay like
that thing's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
Let's go with a nail gun.
If you give them a nail gun,like things can go wrong, right?
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
Like, they're they have to just go, here's a nail
gun, and they don't like explainwhat it is or how to do it, and
then you drop it acrosseverybody in the world.
So now everybody in the worldhas a nail gun.
I think that's great.
Um, you know, like some someinteresting things are gonna
happen, like people are gonna dosome really cool things, but
people are gonna do some reallyuh not so good things as well,
(23:45):
right?
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
So, yeah, and a lot of those will end up on video uh
on YouTube or or would end up onYouTube.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
There's gotta be a channel for that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
Things things not to do with nature.
SPEAKER_01 (23:57):
Well, well, Chris, let's talk about let's talk
about what what it is you'redoing.
Um, and you know, like therelike we've talked a lot about
podcasts.
We've thrown a lot out.
People are probably scratchingstuff down.
I probably need to put a ton oflinks in the show notes.
Um, like you know, longevity islike was nascent a couple years
(24:20):
ago.
I think that you've been one ofthe biggest influences and in
impactors in that space, and nowlike it's it's not anti-aging,
it's longevity, like it'squality of life, it's it's life
extension.
Like, this is a differentcategory that may build on top
of it or might have a Venndiagram overlay on top uh with
(24:41):
it, but but this is somethingtotally revolutionary, and like
I've seen like I've beenfollowing you on social media,
and when we talk, like I mean,there's full-blown conferences,
there's retreats, there's somany different products out
there, there's regimens.
Now they're talking about um inlike peptides and like like I
mean, everything's coming likefront front of mind, right?
(25:04):
Um, even and and so I would loveto hear your kind of framework
for how you're looking at theworld and how people should be
viewing health, maybe.
SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
Yeah, well, uh, I I I think they should be view
viewing health optimisticallyand longevity optimistically.
There's a thing called uh thelongevity escape velocity, which
the concept is in any givenyear, the medical community
extends life by slightly morethan a year, right?
And if you do the math on that,at some point there could be
(25:36):
somebody who is the last personto die of natural causes.
Uh, it would you know suck to bethat well, I guess they wouldn't
know, but it would suck to bethat person who's the last one
to die of natural causes.
And and so this longevity escapevelocity is something that I
wholeheartedly believe in.
And it sounds crazy, right,Chris?
So you believe that we can liveforever.
(25:57):
Uh, I think we can get there.
And here is the evidence that Iuse to do that.
Uh, so in 1950, medicalinformation doubled every 50
years, every five, zero years.
When I started talking aboutthis kind of piece and this
longevity escape velocity, uhbeginning of 2025, medical
information was doubling everythree months.
(26:19):
Now, this is hard to comprehend,but what that means is at the
end of 2026, we're gonna have 16times more information, medical
information, than we did at thebeginning, right?
So it's not just doubled,tripled, 16 times more
information at the end of 2026.
So if it is possible, it isgoing to happen, right?
(26:42):
We're gonna identify you knowsome of the key things, how to
extend telomeres, uh, how toaddress uh uh stem cell
depletion because of I'm gonnathrow out some stuff, but be
because of red bone marrowshrinkage.
We're gonna address the you knowchronic inflammation.
These things are gonna beaddressed.
Uh, and if you think about it,uh the fact that the information
(27:03):
is 16 times as much has nothingto do with AI, right?
Like, okay, maybe we can writepapers a little bit faster or
whatever, but the real value isthe uh immense amount of data
that AI can process.
For example, a really goodscientific experimenter wakes up
and they have 10, 50, 100 kindsof experiments, experiments that
(27:23):
they could run.
And they're like, ah, you know,whatever my subconscious brain
says we should do these three.
Whereas the AI can come in andgo, no, you shouldn't do those
three, right?
Like, because one's gonna failentirely.
And if the other two succeed, nobig deal.
You should do these threebecause they're more likely to
succeed in the area that youwant to, and they'll also have
(27:44):
add-on benefits in some otheryou know realm of biology.
So now not only is it 16 timesmore information, it's better
studies from the beginning.
And so I'm extremely excitedabout this.
SPEAKER_01 (27:57):
So, so so what I started thinking about when you
were talking was one, uh, Googlelike mapped all the proteins or
something like that a coupleyears ago.
And then as you were talking,you're like, oh, AI will be
like, let's just do all of them.
Like, and and well, um, becauseI'm starting to see uh, and
we're we're using this in adsets too, where where you can
(28:18):
have a um uh uh what is it, uhsynthetic audience, right?
So you can take a syntheticaudience, you can drop like a a
marketing message into thataudience, and you can see how it
impacts and kind of how thevirality spreads.
Um, you can take like just purecompute processing.
Um, you can put like a digitaltwin, you can create a digital
(28:39):
twin of this test and who you'regonna test it on, and then and
then you can run all these testssimultaneously and actually
figure out um uh what thatoutput is, or you can start with
the most uh beneficial youthink, and then build on that
data to to go through that wholecycle of testing, which could
(29:00):
take that 50 years, and youcould do it in you know 50 days
or something like that, right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
Yeah.
So then again, you know whattests to run, you know the most
optimized tests to run.
And and and that's really um, Ithink that's really exciting.
And and just to share, like theway I ended up here uh is
because of this molecule, right?
So I'm holding up a model of amolecule.
Uh if you're listening, justimagine a soccer ball where the
lines on the ball represent thebonds between the carbon atoms.
(29:29):
We have a spherical molecule of60 carbon atoms.
We call that ESS60.
Uh, I'll be real brief here.
I can talk for hours on thisstuff because it's just
fascinating.
And we're doing lots ofresearch.
We're starting clinical trialsthis year.
Um, but the molecule was thoughtto be toxic.
They put it in a toxicity studyinstead of being toxic, the test
subjects that they gave it to,in this case, Westar rats, lived
(29:51):
90% longer than the controlgroup.
So the single longest longevityexperimental results on mammals
in history, peer-reviewedpublished research, is because
of this molecule.
By the way, I've beenmanufacturing it since 1991,
right?
Um, like a long time before westarted eWeb style, eWeb
results, EWR digital.
(30:11):
Uh, I've been manufacturing andinvolved in this business from
then.
It just happens at the time thatI kind of started to step out of
EWR, um, the the the this movedinto the health and wellness
space and and the kind ofentrepreneurial opportunity
double, tripled or whatever.
And that's another thing that weneed to talk about today um is
is the is the gauntlet has beenhanded over, right?
(30:34):
The crown or the crown jewel ofdigital marketing has been
handed over.
And now Matt is the person uh totake this EWR crown uh and carry
it forward and you know, reallycarry it forward into the AI
generation.
Like that's a huge piece of it.
Uh so I'm I'm really uh excited.
You are complete owner.
(30:56):
Um, and this is I I feel veryhappy that it's going into the
hands of somebody who'sinterested in the legacy, right?
Like you when you wereinterested as the CEO in
changing the name, you were alsovery interested in keeping the
legacy with it, right?
So you could have gone from eWebstyle to just Matt's business or
whatever, whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (31:17):
Purple Gorilla.
I was going out like PurpleGorilla, we actually own that
domain, but and but wanted tokeep that legacy, right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:25):
Um, and so I really appreciate that you're carrying
this forward.
Um and I'm excited about thethings that you're gonna do uh
and and and keeping an eye onthat and staying in contact so
that we can uh share share greatstories.
SPEAKER_01 (31:38):
No, well, I I appreciate that, Chris.
And um, you know, it was it wasinteresting to see, like when we
saw the opportunity and mypharmaceutical background and
like what we were doing, uh, andlike to see the opportunity
grow.
Um, and that that's what Iwanted to highlight is Chris is
like so.
(31:58):
One is this Bucky Ball won aNobel Prize or something like
that.
Yeah, okay.
So this is like this is not justlike somebody in their garage
making something like this.
It was like one of the keyresearchers, which you
introduced me to, uh, was the uhlike um the assistant to the
person that discovered it atRice, uh and helped kind of get
(32:20):
get all this going when y'allgot it going.
And he's very entrepreneurial aswell and has a bunch of other
businesses.
Um but y'all manufacture it, youare the biggest manufacturers in
North America of something thatis very, very unique.
I remember when we started, I I,you know, I had some
(32:41):
pharmaceutical contacts, but wewere bringing in copackers and
we were bringing in differentpeople, and no one would touch
it because it wasn't based onbenzene, right?
And everything was kind of basedon benzene.
And so this is like completelyrevolutionary that almost
anybody that I was associatedwith in the in the pharma
industry didn't even know how toapproach this.
(33:02):
But as we started getting intolike personal medicine doctors,
they were like, Oh, we're buyingthis out of Switzerland and we
can only get very small doses ofit.
And like, I mean, so it wasthere was a nascent community
around this and the success.
And and then y'all startedmanufacturing it in a heavy way,
and it it just grew and grew andgrew.
(33:23):
And like for somebody that'slike works at night, you know,
or like, okay, like I'm not ashift worker, let's say, but
like, I mean, when you programor like when you're working,
like at night, it's quiet, likeyou don't, you know, there's
there's issues.
Um, like you're always lookingfor something to enhance your
cognitive ability, to to stayawake, to sleep, to um, well,
(33:45):
make sure you're healthy and youdon't have issues.
Um, and when I was on site withyou and like both businesses
were growing, okay, thetestimonials that came in blew
my mind.
And I know that you weren'tpaying for them, you weren't
doing it like anything, likelike the quality, also people
(34:07):
were buying what you wereproducing, watering it down,
okay, and then reselling it.
And you weren't doing that.
And I I mean, I started takingit.
I remember I gave it to my cat,it saved my cat's life.
That the the vet said there'sgonna die.
Like, I've seen this firsthand,I've heard the testimonials come
in, I know the quality of whatyou're making, and it's part of
(34:29):
actually my um well, my dailyroutine is is variable as it is,
but it would be part of my dailyroutine, it's certainly part of
my weekly routine.
I I always do take this stuff,and um, I I do just generally
feel better for for doing it,and I know that the quality's
there, and I know like I all thetestimonials in every area, like
(34:53):
it just makes your body operatebetter.
I mean, I don't know, you couldspeak to this better.
I just am looking at it from theoutside, looking in, and and it
it's just really incredible whatthis molecule does for people.
SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
Yeah, well, a couple things there.
So, one, uh, we startedmanufacturing this in 1991.
The guys who won the Nobel Prizewon the Nobel Prize in 1996, so
a whole five years before.
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
And they used your stuff, right?
SPEAKER_02 (35:18):
Yeah, well, to some degree, yeah.
Like basically every so I'm nota very braggadocious person, uh,
but this is as braggadocious asI'll get.
It's not unreasonable to suggestthat the fact that we were
delivering commercial quantitiesof this carbon nanomaterial to
scientists around the world andthey could get their hands on it
and they could run experimentson it, and they could understand
(35:40):
how valuable the molecule was,is part of the reason that those
three scientists, Dr.
Smalley, Dr.
Croto, and Dr.
Curl, won the Nobel Prize, atleast in terms of time frame.
So we're very early on.
You talked about uh some of thebenefits.
Our most consistent testimonialis people take it in the
morning, they report mentalfocus and energy during the day,
and then better sleep thatnight.
(36:01):
Um, those are all brain related,right?
And the reason they're all brainrelated is because of what's the
theory that behind what'sdriving this, which is the boss
theory.
So that sense for the bufferingoxidative stress system.
So um, long and short, we knowthe molecule gets into the
mitochondria from peer-reviewedpublished research.
Uh, and we know that themolecule can hold up to six
(36:24):
negatively charged particles.
So your mitochondria is anenergy source, right?
It's the powerhouse of everycell.
There's between 50 and 5,000cells and uh mitochondria in
every cell in your body, exceptfor your blood cells, which have
zero, and your brain andneurons, which have two million.
It's amazing how much energy ournervous system uses relative to
our other systems.
It's just off, it's off thecharts, right?
(36:45):
50 to 5,000, 2 million.
Um, when that energy sourceproduces the negative byproduct,
because every energy source youknow produces a negative
byproduct, like a car going downthe road has exhaust.
In this case, it's thesenegatively charged particles.
And because the ES is 60molecules in there, it can hold
on to them so they don't runaround and do a bunch of damage
(37:06):
and really give your uh yourmitochondria, your cells, the
buffer it needs in order tomanage these stress situations,
these reactive oxygen specieswithout having incurred damage.
Now, just a couple things liketo take something in the morning
and positively impact sleep atnight, that's phenomenal.
(37:28):
I'm not, you know, now I've beeneight years asking the question,
what do you know that you cantake in the morning and
positively impact sleep atnight?
Nobody, there isn't anything.
SPEAKER_01 (37:39):
Even impact you like weeks, months down the road from
what the studies have shown.
I mean, I know like I I did takeit this morning, uh, not because
you were gonna be on the show oranything, but I like actually
legit take it, like it's part ofmy regimen, and I'll I'll I'll
I'll you know, I have a bottleand I'll do a chug of it, you
know.
And um I I definitely like whenI know I need that cognitive
(38:04):
focus, it it's part of theregimen for that.
And and I mean, I don't know,like you're talking about I it
sounded like you're talkingabout like free radicals and
like you know, basically like uhit's a super antioxidant
essentially, um, like waystronger than some of the stuff
that's out there.
It's like like a like ultra offthe chart kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Well, there just real quick there's a study, uh
ad hoc study on the web, 172times more powerful than vitamin
C, peer-reviewed publishedresearch, 125 times more
powerful than vitamin C.
SPEAKER_01 (38:35):
Yeah, no, that that's what I was referencing.
I'm glad you articulated itbetter for the audience.
Um, it's legit.
Like uh it it's it's legit.
It it my cat's still alive,actually.
Um that's the cat's living likereally a lot, like way longer.
It's like I think it's like 17years, like the cat's really
wow, and they were gonna put itdown.
SPEAKER_02 (38:54):
What was that?
SPEAKER_01 (38:55):
Oh, that was that was five or six years ago.
Yeah, yeah, maybe longer.
Um, but I yeah, I I really buyinto the the longevity story,
and um, like I mean, I I've I Ialways ask you, like, is this
guy legit or like what is hesaying, or whatever?
But I mean, people are talkingof like getting old is a uh like
(39:16):
a disease that can be or aillness that can be cured, um,
is kind of how I'm starting tosee people talk about it.
I like you talk about technologyadvancements, you talk about
health advancements, and youknow, they're going they're
going hand in hand.
And I mean, I think that uh, youknow, uh my vital C is in the
conversation uh and what SESresearch is producing.
(39:38):
So um I I mean I think it'spretty incredible.
SPEAKER_02 (39:41):
Yeah, well, I like I said, I just recorded a podcast
with a uh kind of a cutting-edgeoptometrist, and he's like, This
is something uh I'm alreadygiving to my clients, and I want
to like focus on your productsince you guys are the
originators, right?
So um if you well, and your eyeshave a uh a significantly higher
quantity of mitochondria in themanyway, rods, cones, um, you
(40:04):
know, different parts of youreyes, because they're so
intricate intricately uhcombined with your brain, right?
Like your eyes and brain and andactually even dental work um is
all like one uh nervous systemall tied together.
So um, yeah, it's exciting.
One of the things that I do loveabout pet testimonials, right?
Anytime you're hearing aboutsomething new, something that's
(40:26):
going through your head shouldbe like what what percentage of
the impact is due to the placeboeffect?
Because there is some.
Like the placebo effect impactsmedications, it impacts your
workout.
If you do a workout and areconvinced it won't do anything
for you, it in fact will do lessfor you, right?
Like that's how powerful theplacebo uh effect is.
The thing with pets is there'sno placebo effect, right?
(40:49):
Like your pet is alive, notbecause of a your like of a
placebo effect, it's because uhthis had some benefits for your
cat.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Yeah, well, I think placebo is about mindset, okay?
And and like I was listeningthis morning, there was a study
that said, like, if you'rethinking about practicing
something, like a musicalinstrument or something like
that, 50% impact of actuallypracticing is thinking about
practicing, and that's howpowerful the brain is.
(41:19):
And so being in a positive stateof mind, focusing on what you're
like directing your attention onuh impacts it.
Like, if you're like, I'm thisis gonna heal my body, and
you're saying that and you'retelling yourself that, like your
body's gonna like fix itself,right?
Yeah, and and where medicationand supplements and all these
(41:39):
other things come in is to giveit like extra um firepower to to
be able to for the immune systemto do what it naturally does.
I mean, the body naturally healsitself, uh, like something like
what is it, like the cells turnover every um, I don't know,
seven months or like, or I don'tknow, I don't know what all
depends on the cells, right?
SPEAKER_02 (41:58):
Your skin's sloughing off all the time, your
muscles is every three months.
Every three months, every cell,every muscle cell you have uh
has been replaced.
SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
That is insane.
Like, so we're recruiting, likewe're I mean, we're turning over
all this stuff, and so to to togive the mitochondria the the
ability to to do that, I thinkthat there's other um you know
mechanisms of action uhassociated with it, but I mean,
I don't know.
I I I just know that uh this isgonna be huge and it is huge
(42:32):
afield, and um, you know, I'mseeing kind of AI uh and kind of
digital marketing and and allthat are are people are being
affected by it first.
Like uh Chris, the last twoagency owners that I
interviewed, um, that are likepower users of of AI, um, in
like the the pre-interview,post-interview, like we've had
(42:54):
some lengthy conversations evenduring the interview.
Like, I'm seeing that thesemarketers are are are being
empowered to step outside ofmarketing and help businesses
and other kinds of operationsbecause you you the AI is
affecting everything, right?
(43:14):
And it affected marketing first,maybe HR, legal review, but like
to become like a a connectedworker and understand how all
these things work, that's thenew next skill set that um is
needing to be developed.
And I think even when likepeople are getting interviewed,
it's like, do you know?
Like, I remember uh someone wasjoking with me that uh back in
(43:37):
the day, uh you people put ontheir resume uh understanding of
the world wide web.
And that was that was actuallylike something that uh
businesses were looking for andneeded to understand.
I feel like AI is the same way.
Like, how AI native are you?
Um, uh, do you understand howthese systems work?
(43:58):
Uh, how productive can you be?
And it's not just understandingwhat it is, but it's
understanding like how to applyit, how to use it.
Um, and and I I just think thatthat's gonna be the next
conversation.
And I think that a lot of peoplethat were impacted early by AI
um uh are are gonna have uh suchexponential opportunity because
(44:21):
they they use it day in, dayout.
Because like when I get outsideof this bubble that I'm in, and
if you're listening to thispodcast, you're certainly in the
bubble.
Um and you talk to people likehow they're using AI, I'm
they're like, oh well, like weput it in a spreadsheet and like
oh, it came up with somenumbers, or like, oh, we we used
(44:42):
it to like help we use Copilot alot to help us write email, or
the best one is um, I'm using AIoverviews, I'm using AI
overviews, Google.
So they're using they're usingAI, and guess what?
They're not wrong, they areusing AI, but it's like that
that image of uh the iceberg,you know, and and they're and
(45:04):
they're touching the tip of theiceberg, and and um and I I just
I don't know, I think that thisis where uh everything's going.
I I have been debating onchanging the name quite a quite
a while of the podcast.
I just you know, I I I you knowyou start over when you do that
and people can't find you.
And uh I think uh we still havesearch volume for e e-web style,
(45:27):
not as much.
That tails uh that tail wasquite long but shortened, but e
web results people still dosearch for and we do have the
domains redirected uh to EWRdigital.
Um and so, you know, I mean itit's hard when you're in a world
that continues to shift andthings keep changing, and things
that were bad for you are nowgood for you, and thing, you
(45:49):
know, like things uh onlinecontinue to change.
And I think that we just reallyas humans uh live in a state of
uh being able to adapt to achanging world, and that's like
the only thing that's consistentis kind of the the jagged edge
of unstability of where thingsare going and uh understanding
(46:11):
your your place in that and uhhow to trend transverse that
landscape.
SPEAKER_02 (46:16):
Yeah, I I think uh so I I listened to uh a podcast
called Moonshots, which is a lotof AI get changed over to AI,
and one day uh I'm driving towork and I'm like, and I've you
know, we've got a successfulcompany here, but part of me is
like, should I stop everythingI'm doing and focus on AI,
right?
Because they were, I don't knowhow frequently their episodes
(46:38):
were coming out, but now it'stwo and sometimes three times a
week because AI is changing somuch and it's gonna be so
impactful.
Uh, and then my ultimateconclusion was no, I should use
AI inside of my environment asmuch as possible.
How do I leverage and multiplythe productivity um so that
we're you know we're we'regenerating more value uh faster?
(47:00):
And so that's you know, I I'mnot quitting what I'm doing.
I love what I'm doing.
Uh I'm utilizing AI for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
Yeah, I've had that same battle uh because we're
we're so heavily entrenched inAI.
Um, I I think it's starting tobe ubiquitous and and what we're
doing and how we're doingthings.
And really, Moonshots tells youwhere everything's going and
space and uh longevity, and theybring on different people.
(47:29):
And it's really good to likeunderstand the like 10-year like
strategy, yeah.
Um, and then walking it all theway back to like what we're
talking about as far as like theimplementation and the
execution.
And that's been the feedback,Chris, that I've gotten as like,
and and we've been labeled aslike an advanced uh SEO podcast
(47:52):
or whatever, but I think reallymaybe uh getting re-categorized
into the AI category because I Ilike a lot of these
conversations and how they applyto business operations and how
to think about governance andand all that sort of thing.
And and marketing like certainlygets impacted by that, and
that's like a big swath of who'sgoing to be affected.
(48:14):
Um, and I mean how brandspresent online and like what is
their their reputation and howdo you leverage all that is a
huge surface area of of what AIcovers because it's the spoken
language.
Um, you know, I see with likeagain multimodal uh AI coming
out, um, the surface areas areare are certainly changing and
(48:37):
um evolving.
And I think people, and again, Ineed to get more on the YouTube
on on kind of the implementationand and showing people how to do
this stuff, but that's that'swhere I I think it's going is
like the execution component.
And I like highlightingdifferent case studies.
So when people reach out to me,and if you're listening, you
(48:57):
want to come on the podcast andyour agency owner, I'd love to
hear how you're using it, howyou're thinking about it, what
are the mental models and theframeworks that you're using to
put this all together?
Because you have all thesedifferent uh siloed systems and
trying to get them to connect.
Um, and and like we're workingon a new org chart right now,
(49:21):
Chris, where we have two AIemployees integrated on the work
chart.
And and what do we give themaccess to?
And you know, what are theirjobs and defining their duties?
And like, I mean, that's anamalgamation of what we learned
in EOS, uh, and agile and likeso so I I just have like a hats
(49:41):
off to marketers that I I thinkthat sometimes they get put in
in a category of like this, butto be able to do that, they have
to know everything, especiallySEO.
You have to know everything, andso I I think that there's gonna
be an elevation of people thatunderstand how the algorithms
(50:02):
work and programmers that canarticulate this knowledge to
executives are gonna be elevatedinto the room, into the
boardroom, into theconversations because they're
the ones that have the data,they're the ones that have the
knowledge and the know-how tomake this stuff happen.
And and I think that there'sgonna be a huge transformation
of what it means to be an agencyor a firm uh in the space and
(50:24):
and how they work withbusinesses.
And, you know, again, there'sgonna be a tail on that as well.
And there's gonna be a lot ofpeople that that probably don't
change fast enough, but thepeople that are listening to
this podcast are the people thatare making those changes and
those steps.
And you have to grow and youhave to learn like anything
else.
And it's like almost taking likesystem thinking and and becoming
(50:46):
like a programmer, like aprogrammer brain to take that
into operations uh andmarketing.
And so there's there's so manydifferent disciplines that that
you have to learn uh to make itall fit together.
Um for me, like I I I you know,I'm a little bit uh idea for
you, and so I love it.
Um, and then I have great peoplethat I can take that and hand it
(51:11):
to uh like Shantae or Jeff, andjust like go put this together,
operationalize it, train theteam and and get it pushed out
there.
And we've been bringing on uh anumber of new people.
We've hired four people in thelast month.
Um, and and so uh there's a lotof great things we're doing over
at EWR.
I I don't promote it enough.
Go go check it out.
(51:32):
We are open to sponsors now.
I didn't want to take onsponsors when I was going
through the Goldman program, butum we are open to sponsors that
align with like these coregoals.
Um, you know, like one of theone of the things we just landed
on on the other podcast was uhactually from like a hiring uh
standpoint, like a hiringgrading standpoint, uh utilizing
(51:54):
uh AI uh like a grader.
Um but yeah, like I mean,there's so many different ways
to look at this, but where I seeeverything going is kind of like
a like a connected worker umthat understands how to use all
these tools.
And that that maybe started inmarketing, but but branches out
into to a lot of other things.
(52:15):
And uh, you know, Chris, I likeI I'm sharing this for the first
time with the audience, and youand I like have these great
lunches and like we go deep inall these different ways, but I
I really feel like this call islike coming full circle because
I remember um when when I uhwhen you you like I was a
consultant and you like hired meand and um and then I was like
(52:39):
it was like three months in, Iwas like, I'm writing a book.
Do you want to tell that story?
SPEAKER_02 (52:44):
Because I well, here's what I know about that
story.
At one point, I don't know ifwe'll call it a Tuesday.
Matt's like, hey, uh, I'mwriting a book.
Uh you would you write theforeword to the book?
Uh and I was like, Yeah, okay.
In my head, it was like, yeah,you know, we got months, he's
got to write a book.
Like, I'm happy to do that.
And then I think on Friday hewas like, Yeah, I'm gonna need
(53:06):
that for word because the book'salready done.
And like, we were in the middleof kind of a turnaround in NEWR.
So in the middle of thisturnaround, which is you know
stressful and and lots of hours,um, he's also writing a book.
So yeah, you're you you you tendto kind of go all in when you're
uh you know, you when you setgoals and then uh accomplish
(53:29):
them really quickly.
So it's really cool.
SPEAKER_01 (53:30):
Well, well, the the the book was was really just
documenting the turnaroundefforts for anybody that wants
to read it.
It's really like my story oflike coming into this and seeing
uh from my eyes like the insideof an agency and um what are the
different components and how allthose things work and
(53:52):
documenting because I waslearning so much.
The only way I know how to likeum remember everything that I
learn is to like write it downon paper.
And so I love to document stuff,and now I love to use AI to
recall what I'm learning, andthat's the big area uh for that
we haven't talked about.
And I am gonna bring on a buddyof mine that that's heavy and
(54:14):
has a bunch of patents in thisspace is memory, okay.
Memory, long-term perpetualmemory to remember the right
kind of things and like thinkabout it.
Like when we go to sleep, Chris,bringing it back to health.
When we go to sleep, I believelike our brain is taking all the
information we've learned andcompressing it and processing it
(54:35):
and then storing it intolong-term memory from short-term
memory.
And that's why it's important tosleep to kind of process that
session.
And AI is not like exactly likea map of the brain, but it works
pretty similar to how kids learnand processes learn with with
all the different nodes of whenyou build an LM.
(54:56):
Um, but remembering something uhand remembering the right thing
and not remembering like likeweighting the memory and the
judgment, like how how to mapall that um is is, I think, like
the next big thing, right?
And and I saw that even withChat GBT four to five, which a
(55:17):
lot of people were unhappy aboutbecause it it had perpetual
memory and then it was turnedoff, and then people went to
other models.
But it's like it it gets fixatedon one thing that you've been
talking about recently becausethere's a decay in the memory,
and it just um, you know, uhwill focus on that thing
completely.
And then people say like AI getsobsessed with certain things,
(55:38):
but it's it's about awaiting anda decay process.
And and and again, it goes backto governance of how you use
this stuff and how how you needto have different sessions and
how you need to bring in theinformation and the recall, and
like even if you're liketraining it like with different
skills, like what skillssupersede other skills.
So if you're building a company,um, well, you know, if there's a
standardized way of doing thingsand then you have a personalized
(56:00):
way of doing things, the companyweight maybe should supersede
that in certain indices, unlessyou break that rule.
Like, you got to think throughall this stuff, but that's for
another call, everybody.
Hopefully, you've enjoyed thishour.
I do have a hard stop and wegotta get going.
But Chris, we'll definitely umhave you back on.
SPEAKER_02 (56:18):
Um I'll add one quick point uh on my podcast.
So live beyond the norms.
Uh, please go check it out.
I interviewed Randall Cohen, uh,he is the founder of Carbon
Copies uh organization.
So their mission uh is to takethe brain and stick it in
silica.
Uh and he's been doing like beenworking and focusing on this for
(56:38):
a long time.
Fascinating interview.
Um, just had parallels with whatyou were were talking about,
like kind of memory storage.
SPEAKER_01 (56:45):
Well, Chris, I love our conversations and we we've
talked about continuing uh thoseum beyond the the the buyout,
and and and um I would love tokeep having you back on the
podcast to keep everybodyupdated because I think that
there's a lot of like biohackersor like kind of like I've had
nootropic companies reach outand sponsor the podcast.
(57:07):
So, like I like optimizing ourbrains are are something that I
think uh a lot of listeners havean interest in.
I know I have an interest in.
And every time I talk to you,you teach me something new, like
I want to stay up to date withthat.
So I'd love to have you on as aum a recurring guest.
I think uh the audience wouldenjoy that as well.
Um, before we go, tell peoplelike you are, I mean, if you
(57:31):
just start to look for you know,uh ESS60 or My Vital C or search
Chris Burst.
I mean, he's all over theinternet.
Like you're you're I mean,you're blowing up, like really
you're blowing up.
Um, but how do people find you?
How do they follow you?
How do they find out more aboutthis product that you know
changes your brain and uhextends your longevity?
(57:52):
Potentially, like, you know, no,like asterisk, like yeah, yeah,
asterisk, asterisk, asterisk.
SPEAKER_02 (57:58):
Um, yeah, you can find me my vitals c as in carbon
myvital c dot com.
Uh the podcast is called LiveBeyond the Norms.
Uh, so you can find live beyondthe norms.com, can subscribe
with your favorite podcast app.
Um, and then on social media,it's under my battle c and yeah,
we're pushing out.
I'm I'm you know, from thepodcast, I'm pushing out six
(58:20):
pieces of content per day.
Uh, so once you kind of get inthe envelope, uh, you'll see me
a lot.
Maybe you'll get tired of me.
Uh, maybe you'll just give me athumbs up, add a comment.
I would love that.
And uh, and yeah, so it's prettyeasy to to to find me.
SPEAKER_01 (58:34):
Well, Chris, I just want to thank you for our
decade-long plus friendship uhand uh uh uh co uh uh uh
employer, uh uh in like uhco-working, like all of the
things.
Um uh you've been a meaningfulimpact in my life, and uh I'm
glad to be able to share shareyou and what you're doing with
(58:56):
the audience.
Um, thank you so much for beingon.
Um, for everybody out there, ifyou want to grow your business
with the largest, most powerfultool on the planet, the
internet, and now I say AI aswell.
Uh, reach out to EWR for morerevenue in your business.
Thank you so much for being on.
Please shico us, Chris.
(59:19):
Share, like, follow us.
Uh, and until the next time, myname is Matt Bertram.
Bye bye for now.
Chris Furnes.
SPEAKER_02 (59:28):
Bye bye for now.
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