July 26, 2026 • 55 mins
We dig into how podcasting, digital PR, and SEO now reinforce each other, especially as AI search tools pull answers from trusted third-party sources. We also share practical ways to turn press and interviews into long-term visibility while staying grounded when attention brings criticism.
• why early podcasting works as a relationship builder and business flywheel
• how press placements create credibility and authoritative backlinks
• what “AI visibility” means for brands in ChatGPT style search
• ways to repurpose podcast interviews into clips, blogs, email, YouTube, and niche groups
• how to respond to bad reviews and shift the narrative without spiraling
• why PR agencies and SEO agencies should collaborate for durable results
• how to build a visibility roadmap through messaging, visuals, and personal brand consistency
• common media pitching mistakes, especially generic AI written outreach without research
• how a print on demand magazine can still be a smart networking channel
Guest Contact Information:
Website: nextonscene.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/jaclyn-zukerman-delory
Instagram: instagram.com/jackiezuk
More from EWR and Matthew:
Leave us a review wherever you listen: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Amazon Podcast
Free SEO Consultation: www.ewrdigital.com/discovery-call
With over 5 million downloads, The Best SEO Podcast has been the go-to show for digital marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs wanting real-world strategies to grow online.
Now, host Matthew Bertram — creator of the LLM Visibility Stack™, and Lead Strategist at EWR Digital — takes the conversation beyond traditional SEO into the AI era of discoverability.
Each week, Matthew dives into the tactics, frameworks, and insights that matter most in a world where search engines, large language models, and answer engines are reshaping how people find, trust, and choose businesses. From SEO and AI-driven marketing to executive-level growth strategy, you’ll hear expert interviews, deep-dive discussions, and actionable strategies to help you stay ahead of the curve.
Find more episodes here:
Rate the show in your podcast app. Apple ratings are how new listeners decide whether to press play — an honest one takes about thirty seconds. Steps for iPhone, Mac and Spotify:
www.bestseopodcast.com/review
Follow us on:
Facebook: @bestseopodcast
Instagram: @thebestseopodcast
Tiktok: @bestseopodcast
LinkedIn: @bestseopodcast
Connect With Matthew Bertram:
Website: www.matthewbertram.com
Instagram: @matt_bertram_live
LinkedIn: @mattbertramlive
Powered by: ewrdigital.com
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
This is the unknown secrets of internet marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential?
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
Welcome back to the Best SBO podcast, The Unknown
Secrets of Internet Marketing.
And I've got graphic that we'vegot to remove from there.
There we go.
All righty.
I'm your guest host, JeffCampbell, as you can tell by my
uh graphic overlay skills.
Uh, second time hosting thepodcast.
Matt is off doing businessdevelopment right now, and he is
(00:38):
cooking up some reallyinteresting things for future
episodes.
So you'll want to join us forthose.
But uh today's guest is JaclynZuckerman Delori, founder and
CEO of Next on Scene Media, aBoston-based PR and media
company, helping entrepreneursand brands get seen, heard, and
remembered.
Jacqueline launched Next onScene Podcast back in 2014,
(01:00):
added a magazine in 2015, andhas since built the brand into a
full service agency, offeringwhat she calls 360-degree
visibility, strategy,storytelling, amplification
under all under one roof.
She's interviewed celebritiesand reality stars and helped
hundreds of business owners landpress placements in outlets like
USA Today, Fox, and NBC, andcreated her signature
(01:23):
blueprints.
Um, sorry, created her signatureblueprints by Jaclyn PR Roadmap
System.
Jacqueline, welcome to the show.
Great to have you with us.
SPEAKER_04 (01:32):
Jeff, that was such a nice introduction.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
Oh, you're most welcome.
It's great, great to have youwith us today.
So you launched Next on ScenePodcast back in 2014 before
podcasting was really uh athing, or not as broad as it is
right now, that's for sure.
Uh what made you bet on thattype of media as part of your
business model early in thegame?
SPEAKER_04 (01:54):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I I really fell into it.
Like I didn't really know whatit was because it radio was
still really radio still existsas you know, but it was still
really big like 11, 12 yearsago, you know.
Um, I feel like it was somethingnew and I wanted to explore
something new and exciting.
And so that's kind of why I kindof took the jump and went for
(02:15):
it.
And I thought it would allowpeople to listen on demand, and
that's really what sold me on itbecause people could listen
anytime.
So that's why I leaned into it.
I went for it.
SPEAKER_03 (02:25):
Right.
And were you a listener to a lotof shows at the time?
Yeah, digging in and exploringstuff.
You just heard about it and youthought this is a thing we
should try.
And that's how have you liked itas a tool?
So that's a long time to staywith it.
SPEAKER_04 (02:37):
Yeah, I love it as a networking tool.
I feel like I've gotten to Idon't know how you feel about
this.
I'm assuming you know, you andMatt probably feel the same, but
you really get to know peoplereally intimately and get
thought about beyond likebecause you get intimate time
with people, and I think it's agreat way to like do
introductions and be thoughtabout afterwards with no
expectation during it.
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
Yeah, I absolutely well.
My my kind of backstory actuallyis I was a listener of this
podcast, you know, going backabout 12 years because I was a
pretty early adopter when itcame to podcasting before it
even before it was even calledpodcasting.
I was, you know, just listeningand watching that space and
found it really interesting.
But I found this company throughtheir podcast.
I hired them about eight yearsago, so I was a client for like
(03:21):
four or five years, and then Igot to know the team.
They just seemed like they werehaving a good time, and the
podcast was part of that, andnow here I am hosting it.
So that is amazing.
If you if you don't think itworks for business, like it
works, and yeah, uh, you know,I'm I'm living proof of that.
So um great story.
SPEAKER_04 (03:37):
That's a great story.
Love that story.
SPEAKER_03 (03:40):
Yeah, it's it's the long game, though, definitely,
right?
Because that was like a 12-yearjourney.
Um, but it builds business, butit's it's not like flipping a
switch, you know, you'rebuilding the network, like you
said, having great conversationsand uh and learning, you know,
and making meeting great peoplealong the way.
So excellent.
Um, let's talk about uh digitalPR and SEO.
(04:00):
Those worlds have kind of meshedtogether a lot, and we're
finding that even more and more.
Like a press placement in USAToday isn't just credibility
anymore, it's a backlink.
It's you know, uh a backlinkfrom a very authoritative domain
on the internet.
So, how intentionally do youfactor in SEO into the press and
(04:22):
media placements that you'regoing after for your clients?
Yeah, well, I'm consideration.
SPEAKER_04 (04:27):
Yeah, I tell every client now that you need to
optimize your press placements.
Like you need to put on yourwebsite, you need to put on your
email signatures, like anywhereyou can link it, do you know
what I mean?
Like black backlink, the better.
Um, so I always say, like,definitely hire an SEO company
with the press placements.
But I've also seen now with AI,like when you're searching for
(04:48):
companies, when you're pressed,when you're in place online,
like a credible source, it alsois now picking up, like, oh, so
and you know, Jeff was cited inUSA Today or Business Insider.
Like those are they're nowpulling those up as like go-to
people in the industry.
So it's helping build yourcredibility even within AI and
chat and all those things.
SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
So yeah, absolutely.
Though, you know, AI search uhchannels like GPT or Perplexity
and even Google's AI overviewspull heavily from earned media
and trusted publications likethose.
Are clients coming to you askinghow do I show up when someone is
asking about AI in my, you know,asking AI for information in my
industry?
Like, are they looking for thatas a you know, the getting AI
(05:33):
visibility?
Is that a consideration for yourclients?
SPEAKER_04 (05:36):
So for me, so I think clients come to me first
to get more eyes on them interms of like public speaking,
like a thought leadership, Iwould say, is what they come to
me for.
And then I tell them once theplacements are in place, like
you should hire an SEO companyto optimize it to be more
searchable, you know, becausethe the TV stations, the
(05:58):
magazine outlets, they will putyou on their websites and I'll
tell you strategically how tomarket it in your social media,
but I'm not the tech wiz beyondthat place.
So I'm like, you need to evenmaximize the opportunities
beyond that.
And that's how companies likeyou can really help.
SPEAKER_03 (06:13):
So yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And we love to help uh getinvolved with that.
And we we found you know theneed to have discussions and
conversations with people morein the traditional PR space as
well, to bring in their skillset to solve some of the client
problems that uh clients bringto us as well.
So here's a thesis I want to getyour take on.
(06:34):
PR is becoming an effective SEOstrategy because AI models
trusts you know the third-partycoverage more than anything a
brand says about itself.
Do you agree with thatstatement, or would you have a
different take on it?
SPEAKER_04 (06:47):
Can you repeat it again?
SPEAKER_03 (06:49):
Yeah, so it's like the the concept that um that PR
is like the kind of the best SEOmove that you can do uh because
of how much AI loves that thirdparty statement.
It's like a lot of traditionalSEO is like what we say about us
on our website and our blog andthings that we're doing for
ourselves to get ranking, asopposed to when you go to those
(07:11):
third party, you know, gettingplaced on you know Forbes or USA
Today, that's a like a trustedthird party, and that's more,
you know, the the idea is thatthat's more critical to the AI
search because of its thirdparty nature, as opposed to us
saying, hey, we're here andwe're awesome.
You know, everybody's gonna saygood things about themselves,
right?
But third party more trust.
SPEAKER_04 (07:33):
No, I I think it's I think it's really so just
correct me if I'm answeringcorrectly because it sounds so
technical, so I'm just beinghonest with that too.
So I think it's really valuableto have PR because automatically
it gives you great SEO in AI.
It does, it gives you great SEOin AI, it gives you great SEO on
Google, but sometimes you evenneed well, you 100% need people
(07:55):
to go in and make it so itattracts even more people
outside of their audiences.
And that's where I feel like youguys come in.
Does that kind of answer thatquestion?
SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Like the way the way we wouldlook at it is that there's
foundational pieces that youwant to have your information
architecture correct, you know,and your your kind of uh uh
information entities correct.
Not, you know, it used to bemostly just about your own
website and your backlinkscoming to your site, but now
it's like your informationacross a variety of channels,
(08:27):
including your website andprimarily your website, but also
other places where people mightbe talking about things like you
know, the the uh the LLMs arelooking for original, authentic,
accurate, up-to-dateinformation.
So they're going to places likeReddit, you know, scraping
Reddit for because it's freshconversation, it's fresh
authentic conversation,generally speaking.
(08:49):
Although, as people try and gameReddit more, maybe the
authenticity factor is gonna getpushed down a bit because
everybody's always trying to,you know, game the system to get
that exposure.
But uh we we find it it's yeah,you know, third-party articles,
backlinks, and all that workreally well when your core
information on your website isstructured correctly and your
(09:10):
data is marked up correctly.
SPEAKER_04 (09:12):
But I would even just to follow up with that
thought though, Jeff, like Ithink for your name imprint,
like for for being on a crediblecompany website, like does
incredible opportunities foryour personal brand, you know,
like for SEO purposes.
So, like, yeah, I just wanted toshare that too.
I think that that's valuable aswell.
SPEAKER_03 (09:31):
So yeah, it it does credibility, but then when you
go down to kind of the machinelevel, like Matt even had an
issue with um because there arethere are you know it's a pretty
common name.
There are multiple Matt Bertramsout there, and there are even
some who are in a space that'syou know not directly, you know,
kind of competing with what hedoes, but but very adjacent, and
(09:53):
and it would be easy for youknow, the machines need a lot of
they need specific literalinformation to interpret, right?
And so, you know, it's aquestion of like, are we going
with Matt Bertram or MatthewBertram?
And like, how do we how do wedifferentiate him from those
other ones who are some you knowkind of public facing figures
out there as well?
And you know, yeah, you have tohave a really uncommon name to
(10:17):
be the only person with yourname, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:19):
Really, really good point, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (10:21):
So that's uh you know, that's where that
structural stuff can come in tolike help just really spell it
out for the machines.
Like, who are we talking aboutwhen we talk about this name?
Uh so that and then that goes inwith the you know the
third-party exposure and the PR.
It's like, but are the machinesunderstanding the entity
correctly?
Of like, is it this Map Virginversus that Map Virgin type of
(10:44):
thing?
So, anyways, yeah, nerdy in thereads there, as I tend to do,
but um uh so when a client, solet's talk about podcasting in
terms of like a tool for gettingthat exposure.
When a client gets featured uhin a podcast or you interview
them in a podcast, what's yourwhat do you do with that content
(11:04):
afterwards to kind of get themost value out of it?
Because that's a starting point,right?
SPEAKER_04 (11:09):
Great question, because my company is filled
with a lot of content, likethat's just I'm sure you guys in
your own way to experience that.
So, what we do is we promote, webreak them up because obviously
podcasts are long.
So, how do you splice up thecontent, create them into
content nuggets, and repurposethem over time?
So we take episodes, we splicethem, we repurpose them in the
(11:30):
social media feeds, we repurposethem um in like uh email blasts.
Like we've kind of done a littlebit of testing.
And then what I've done in thepast, I don't do as much now, is
I really utilized Facebookgroups and I used to reshare my
content there too, because thereare a lot of niche people that
are looking for specific thingsto listen to.
(11:51):
Um, so those are things I haddone in the past, blogs.
I definitely have had blogswhere people can click and
write, read and listen to themthere on my website, and then
you optimizing YouTube.
YouTube is so huge for you knowvisual and audio avenues.
SPEAKER_03 (12:06):
So yeah, absolutely.
And and the way we, you know,from our SEO perspective, we
refer to it as the secondbiggest search engine in the
world, right out there.
SPEAKER_04 (12:14):
Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (12:15):
Which it is, yeah.
But that's our that's a reallyinteresting take about you know,
like specific Facebook groupsbecause you've got a you know, a
self-selected audience that'sinterested in a particular topic
there, so that's a really greatidea.
SPEAKER_04 (12:30):
And even like just to follow up on that thought,
like LinkedIn has groups toothat's great for that, too.
You know, like I used to do thatwhen my podcast was my sole
thing, like that's what I whereI put a lot of my time into
because there, even thoughpeople don't necessarily click
and like and comment on things,they're they're watching, you
know what I'm saying?
So I think that there's a lot ofvalue to be had there.
SPEAKER_03 (12:51):
Yeah, like as opposed to just like kind of
spraying it everywhere andsaying, here's our information,
you're you've already got like auh a pre-selected, uh, you know,
self-identified audience ofpeople with a particular topical
interest.
So if you if you're a match forthat, yeah, that that's that's
uh brilliant for sure.
Um, let's talk about the flipside of visibility.
(13:12):
So when a client comes to youwith you know a negative article
that's been published or so, youknow, pile of bad reviews that's
sitting on page one of Google,do you have a particular kind of
approach or playbook for doingdamage control for those who are
such a great question?
SPEAKER_04 (13:28):
This happened to one of my clients not too long ago.
Um, my first, this is maybe yourexpertise, but I'm speaking from
a publicist standpoint.
So I always say to first, youcan't, I'm sure you guys know,
like you can't remove a Googlereview if it's bad.
Like it takes a long time to dothat.
So I'm always like, reach out toall your other clients you love,
(13:50):
like, know, and trust, and havethem start reviewing you so it
pushes the crap out of that um,you know, the bad review down to
the bottom.
I always say, like, that's agreat way to start doing that.
Um, and then I've totally hadclients in the past that have
been on television, got so muchattention, and kind of um
decided that it wasn't fit forthem anymore.
They were very intimidated bythat.
(14:10):
And to just kind of talk about atwo-folded area of what you're
saying.
I think that sometimes there's alot of judgment that comes with
growth and visibility.
And so I feel like it'simportant to build confidence
and I'm spiritual, work on yourspirituality.
And I think that really allowsyou to show up more confidently
and translate more positiveopportunities to yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (14:32):
Yeah, having that skill of being able to to kind
of face a storm or even likewhat do people think about me if
I put myself out there publiclyis gonna be really intimidating
for a lot of people.
But um, yeah, on on the on thenegative on the recovering from
negative publicity, like withGoogle reviews.
Um, we actually had somebody whogave us a negative review and
(14:56):
got very personal about it andstarted like posting screenshots
of emails.
You said this and you said that,and it was crazy, and we just
pointed it out to Google, andthey're like, Yeah, that's not
happening.
Like, so they they removed itright away because this person
was completely on some things,yeah.
So it can be done, but yeah,it's not just a regular bad
review, it's when people arelike get get you know good
(15:17):
crossing the line in terms ofwhat they're they're sharing.
But I've also seen it go theother way where um, you know,
just reaching out to thedisgruntled uh customer and
saying, Hey, how can we fixthis?
And had we've seen situationswhere like a one star turned
into a five-star review onGoogle because they had a legit
problem with something thathappened.
It was a different company I wasworking for, but uh you know, we
(15:38):
turned it around, and that'sthat's not always easy to do,
but it can happen.
SPEAKER_04 (15:42):
So there's ways to Yeah, and I just want to bob on
your on your two-folded questionbecause you said something of
like bad articles that come outor whatever, and I think that
that's common, especially inlike I don't know, celebrity PR,
like you think about the coldplay concert, like you think
about things that have justhappened that you just can't
like it's such a short-termthing if you think about it in
(16:03):
the big scheme of things, thatit's almost like you need to not
let it consume your ownday-to-day content and focus on
other positive things that youor your company can offer.
You can't take away whathappened, but you can switch the
narrative.
So, like they know that you'renot hyper-focused on it.
Does that make any sense?
So I always say, Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03 (16:22):
Yeah, it's like we yeah, we you don't want to spend
a lot of time spinning in thatcycle of of engaging with the
negativity.
Uh, I think you know, take thehigh road, answer it once, and
then we're moving on.
Exactly.
If if it even merits an answer.
So let's let's go back to um theconcept here with uh the PR and
SEO kind of worlds overlapping.
(16:44):
Should PR agencies and SEOagencies uh find ways to
collaborate more?
And where do you seeopportunities uh for working
together?
SPEAKER_04 (16:54):
Yeah, I mean, I love I've I work with a few SEO
companies over the years.
So I know a lot of value of likeI'm not good with back
personally, I'm not good withback end website stuff, like any
of the things to optimize theback end of how hyperlink things
to make them maximize moreaudiences.
So I always say, like, I can dothe front end and I can get more
(17:15):
eyes on you from the front end,but to really double down and
grow, you need an SEO company toreally optimize it long term.
Because my social media, like mysocial media that I strategize
with and the PR stuff, can comeoff short-lived if it's not
remarketed.
And people need to be educated.
So, like clients that stay onwith me for a long time, like we
know how to repurpose thecontent and all those things.
(17:36):
If you're with a PR company fora short-term period of time,
even though those articles liveon those TV news sites forever,
if you're not remarketing it orit's not hyperlinked on your
website, it's lost, lost money,lost time, all the things,
right?
So I'm always like an SEOcompany can help that front end
be more regular, consistent.
(17:56):
Does that make any sense?
SPEAKER_03 (17:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
No, it it so some of thiscontent stuff is playing the
long game.
And you know, some content isephemeral and it's down the
river, and just we're done withit.
And the other of it will uh haveyou know kind of evergreen
value, like depending on whatthe topic is being discussed.
If it's current events, maybeit's not so relevant a year from
now, but there are some thingsthat we can talk about that will
(18:19):
absolutely be relevant, and thatthere will be, you know, that
link will come through three,four years later.
And that's you know, it's likepodcasting.
Oh, we did a podcast.
Did we get new customers nextmonth?
Well, no, but maybe you got onelike two years from now, and you
but you didn't even have theattribution to know.
And and that, you know, that'sone thing that we really like to
do is is you know, can we find away to get attribution and
(18:42):
measurement even over the longhaul, right?
Of the investment that we made.
But it's also to some extentjust understanding that you
know, in the world of search,uh, you know, the machine runs
on content.
And so having a steady flow,which podcasting is a great way
to create that steady flow, isyou know, it has value even if
(19:04):
you can't prove the value.
You should try to prove thevalue, but even if you can't,
like we just trust that it's agood thing to be creating
valuable content for people.
SPEAKER_04 (19:12):
I just see, but I don't know if you have like
thoughts on this too, but evenjust the stamp of having like
NBC on your website, like NBCFox, like I think about all the
placements I've done over theyears.
Like, you even if the articleisn't relevant, it's about how
you're marketing the placementsthat you got, right?
Like, it's like how can you likesubtly say, like, it could have
(19:35):
been on something like you said,like a tournament that's not
relevant anymore, but it's stilla stamp on your brand that gives
you the credibility to get morepeople know that you've been
placed there, you know.
So I think it's a two-folded um,yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (19:48):
You're making me think of things that I've
engaged with in the past, likethey had, you know, uh sort of
audience outreach things wherethey they were looking for
questions for interviews on CNN,you know, it was kind of cool.
I sent in a question that and itwas an author of a book that I
had read, and they used myquestion and they asked him the
question and they put my name.
This question came in from JeffCampbell.
(20:09):
And you know, that was just kindof a cool experience, but it's
like, hey, CNN used my question,so I've you know, in a very tiny
way, my content's been featuredon CNN, right?
But they wanted to engage thatway, so it's amazing though.
It's a legit, yeah, it's cool,like that you can have those uh,
you know, for that as anexperience, so that was like you
know, probably like 15 years agowhen that happened.
(20:29):
I was like, wow, that's so coolthat that you know the world was
getting to that place where wecan, you know, because before
you could not reach up to a bigmedia channel like that and get
anything on there at all, likeit just so true out of reach,
right?
So yeah, the world has uh hasshifted.
Uh I'd like to okay.
So you've interviewed uhcelebrities and reality stars.
(20:53):
What did promoting famous peopleteach you about promoting less
famous people?
Was there something from theirworld that kind of became a
lesson about how they went aboutthings?
SPEAKER_04 (21:06):
What an interesting question.
Um did they teach me anything?
So repeat the second part of thequestion.
SPEAKER_03 (21:13):
Yeah, so so so they're they're automatically,
you know, if somebody's uh apublic figure, they probably
have a machine around them tohelp them with their their PR
and their publicity and how theyget the message out there or
whatever.
Did you like pick up any tipsfrom them?
As uh, you know, they were like,Oh, that's a good, I hadn't
thought of doing that before, ordid you pretty much have your
(21:34):
game on?
SPEAKER_04 (21:35):
I think I just always so I think I just talk to
them like normal people.
I never treat anyone different.
And I so I haven't really, I'mbeing honest with you, like I
think that that's why I'vegotten the interviews I've
gotten because they're veryimpressed with like that.
I'm not starstruck, that I'mjust a genuine, like want to
have a conversation with you.
So I really see everybody as thesame, no matter what the status
(21:58):
is.
I think people that are smallbusinesses that are Come on,
just don't have the exposure orhave ever been on shows before.
So they're definitely way moreintimidated.
You know, like I think the onlything I've experienced at the
really high level is we havethis limited time frame.
This is the amount of time Ihave.
You know, like it's very like,I'm like, don't worry, we'll be
on time.
Like it's all good.
Like, and they're very impressedby that, you know.
(22:18):
So I think that that's the onlything that I've seen that
they're like just veryregimented in terms of how much
time they can give you, youknow.
So, but some aren't like that,some are.
SPEAKER_03 (22:28):
Sure, sure, Brady and use your time well, I guess,
is the exact way from that one.
Yeah, for sure.
So blueprints by Jason.
Uh, what you know, tell me alittle bit about what goes into
your visibility roadmap or howyou think about that when you're
building that roadmap forsomebody.
SPEAKER_04 (22:44):
Yeah.
So I clients come to you whenthey want to get more publicity,
be on TV, be in magazines.
So I look at all of theirmarketing, like front-end
marketing.
So their website messaging,their visuals, their photo and
video content, um, anypartnerships they've done, have
they built their personal brand,any like headshots they have.
Like I look for anything that'soutdated that doesn't depict
(23:07):
their bigger goals.
And we create a message andvisuals to get them to the end
goal as like the thought leaderin their space, as the go-to
person they want to be.
Um, because for me, I truly feelthat you can change careers any
day, but you're always yourpersonal brand.
Like you can continue to evolve,but you're still Jeff.
(23:27):
You know what I mean?
Like, so people always know youas Jeff Campbell and people
always know me as Jacqueline,but like I can have multiple
careers in my life.
So I think that that's what Ilove to hone in on of like
keeping the consistency of yourpersonal brand where your heart
lives, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (23:43):
So yeah, love it, love that, you know, that kind
of authenticity in the in theincreasingly, you know, flooded
with AI content world.
I think there's a there's a realum, you know, the the the value
of that personal brand and thatyou know backed by authenticity,
not like just a facade, but youknow, like hey, here's a real
(24:03):
me, here's what you get.
Uh, I think that's refreshing toa lot of people.
They they really engage withthat.
SPEAKER_04 (24:09):
For sure.
SPEAKER_03 (24:10):
Um, and so you're trying to bring that out for
your clients, like help them tofind what their voice is or
their kind of how to get acrosslike who they really are to
their audience.
SPEAKER_04 (24:20):
So I and this is what I'm continuing to teach
people like the most vulnerablethings about your life.
You don't have to shareeverything, but that's for
people connect.
And so that is something that AIcan never take from you.
So, like, I love AI, like Ithink it simplifies so many
things, but the human connectionit will never replace, you know,
like emotions and that that'sreally what I teach people to
(24:43):
get more confident sharingthrough video, through photos,
through how they'recommunicating it to the world.
Like, that's what I love to do.
So that's that's how I do it.
So I help directly create andproduce all those sort of
things.
SPEAKER_03 (24:57):
So yeah, amazing.
You know, I I always say thatyou know, I'm trying to think
about the like what what dohumans have that AI doesn't
have?
Because AI is so impressive, itcan do so much, it can do it
really quickly.
Uh, and the thing that AIdoesn't have and will never
really have is stories from thetrenches, like it just hasn't
had a human experience, right?
It can probably be taught tomake stuff up.
(25:19):
God help us that that everhappens.
We don't want that, but um, youknow, stories from the trenches,
like real human experience iswhat is, I think, interesting
and engaging a lot of time to topeople.
Um in terms of approaching uh,you know, when it when
individuals are pitchingthemselves to media, do you see
(25:41):
any kind of mistakes or or kindof errors in thinking that
people make when they're whenthey're first trying to start
that process?
SPEAKER_04 (25:49):
Great question.
I love this question.
So this is where people use toomuch AI, and this is why it
doesn't translate.
This is where like I think AI isgreat for a baseline.
For a baseline, like template,like create a press release for
me.
Here's what I'm thinking, yadayada yada.
If you don't know anything aboutwhat the reporter's reporting
on, if you don't know anythingpersonal about them, they're not
(26:12):
gonna read your email, they'regonna put it in the trash.
So, like, I think this is wherethe human connection comes in.
Like, you need to do yourresearch on who the reporters,
editors, and journalists are,like spend time engaging in
their content for a littlewhile, like really spend time
that you care that you'restanding out to them.
Because I think they get well, Iknow they get pitched thousands
(26:32):
of emails a day.
So, like if you're not standingout in the weeds authentically,
like it's not being paidattention to.
SPEAKER_03 (26:40):
Yeah, there just reminds me, there's a guy uh I
I'm based out of Canada.
There's a guy up here who is amusic journalist and he goes by
the handle Nardwar the humanserviette, which is serviette in
Canada, is a napkin, basically.
Like he's like the human napkin.
Funny name, but his whole thing,and he is very well respected in
(27:02):
the musical industry, especiallywith a lot of rap artists,
because he will get the deepest,most, you know, the deepest
level of research that you canpossibly do.
Like he'll find out who yourbest friend was in grade six and
like ask you about it in theinterview, and people are always
their jaws just hitting thefloor because he's always like
gone back and found out, youknow, talk to their mom or
(27:22):
something like that, and foundout like the most deepest
research that nobody canimagine, and and built the whole
thing on that.
And as a result, this guy islike beloved in the music
community because everybody justlike this guy cares about it.
And then he also goes and findsgifts.
He's like, Here's the firstoriginal LP you guys issued in
like 1989, and it's you know,he'll he'll give it to them as a
(27:43):
gift, you know, it's like someobscure piece of like
memorabilia that has that'samazing!
SPEAKER_04 (27:49):
That's really amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (27:50):
It's like a lot of work that goes into that.
SPEAKER_04 (27:53):
There's definitely a lot of work that goes into that.
SPEAKER_03 (27:55):
Yeah, but it's like the guy's built his whole career
based on like deep research,caring more than anybody has
ever cared about like aninterview before, basically.
And uh it's it's just youreminded me of that.
It's it's kind of wild actually.
Thanks for caring that.
SPEAKER_04 (28:10):
That's really but that's like a great example of
how to stand out to people, andit absolutely worked, you know
what I mean?
SPEAKER_03 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's funny because he he hasa very uh uh you know, he wears
like kind of a funny hat andlike plaid pants and stuff.
He's got a whole shtick to it,and people used to make fun of
him, like get out of here, youknow, like dismiss him at the
beginning.
There's even some bands who liketreated him really badly, but
over time as people realize,wow, this guy is like a true fan
of the genre and has thebackground and the research,
(28:41):
they just came to love, youknow, like Snoop Dogg and like
different people like that justlove the guy uh because because
of how much he cares about thesubject matter, anyways.
Good on a tangent of old there,but I'll send you like worth
it's really it's really worth alook if you haven't haven't seen
his uh his content.
Um okay, so let's talk now aboutyou've got a magazine as part of
(29:05):
your mix.
We really, you know, we gotpodcasting, we got AI search and
PR and all this, but you're alsostill doing a uh magazine.
How does that fit into yourbusiness?
SPEAKER_04 (29:14):
So when I started, I'm from New York originally and
now live in Boston, but when Istarted here in mass with um PR,
like I had no connections.
So I was in New York for therelocated, I had no connections,
and I was like, I'm meeting somany small businesses that have
great stories.
Like, how can I help them?
And I went to Canva and I, youknow, this was like 2014.
(29:37):
I went on Canva and I made amagazine, and it was originally
for people that were just on mypodcast of stories I was
sharing, and it absolutely likeoutgrew my podcast guests, it
went international, and I waslike, wow, like it kind of like
outgrew me.
And so it was just my mom and Ithat put it together for a long
time, and then um I decided togo down to once a year because
(29:58):
it was a huge project.
Um, so now I have a graphicdesigner and I we just continue
to grow, it's really exciting.
SPEAKER_03 (30:05):
So you still do like a paper print version of this
magazine?
Totally do, yeah.
And like who do you who do yousend it to?
Like how does this getdistributed and what how do you
decide?
SPEAKER_04 (30:15):
Great question.
So I think the reason I'vesurvived as long as I have is
because I print on demand.
I print for events that I do forlaunch events.
I have subscribers, but it'smore on demand.
So I don't have to be obligatedto print thousands of copies.
So I think that that's anotherreason, cost-wise, that it's
helped me a lot over the years.
(30:35):
Um, it really like for me, it'sjust been a passion project.
Like I started with smallbusinesses, then went to
celebrities launching businessventures they were doing or new
businesses they were launching.
Um, and it's just become areally like luxury.
Like my goal is to be in privatejets because I think that's the
type of caliber of people thatwill actually want the tangible,
(30:57):
glossy magazine withentrepreneurship articles, you
know.
So that's yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (31:03):
Yeah, I mean, there it's like it also kind of
anchors you in that traditionalworld of media that uh we've a
lot of us maybe think, oh, theworld has moved beyond that, but
it's still a thing.
People will pick up a magazinefrom time to time.
But it also gets it just givesyou that association with kind
of a past age of media uh that'smaybe a little bit nostalgic or
(31:24):
something that people have that,you know, we've all had that
experience uh at some point inthe past, picking up and it's
leaking through a magazine, andnow you're you're kind of
keeping that alive and connectedto it.
SPEAKER_04 (31:33):
So it's kind of a cool legacy thing there to uh my
goal, the only reason I don'teven remember originally I
started right because I wantedto help the small business like
share their messages who didn'thave contacts in media.
So originally started there, andthen I was like, this doesn't
feel sustainable long term.
Like, what's the real goal withthis?
So my goal really was to be aforced read in airplanes for
(31:54):
print because that's the onlyplace people read tangible
magazines.
So that's why for so long, atleast from a print side, like
that's where I want to be,because I can naturally like can
see that not being hugeoverheads, and it's more like
it's more containable, you know.
So I have a ton of digitalreading, that's where most of my
readership is.
(32:15):
But for the people that want thephysical copies, that's how I
can keep it living withoutfeeling like I'm overextending
myself.
SPEAKER_03 (32:21):
Yeah, and I mean if it's on planes, like people
would leave it on thereprobably, like for exactly,
exactly.
And do you try to tie it intoyour like digital at all with
like QR codes or is there anykind of oh totally?
So are you measuring what comesfrom the magazine in any way?
SPEAKER_04 (32:38):
Like I should.
I just because I just startedoriginally as a passion project,
being completely honest here,like I probably should to this
day.
Like I create bit.ly links andstuff.
Like, I that's the probably themost trackable thing I've done
over the years.
Um, but outside of that, likeit's just been a passion
project, it's been a greatnetworking tool for me over the
years.
Like, between that and thepodcast, it's really how I grew
(33:00):
my network to where I'm attoday.
SPEAKER_03 (33:02):
So awesome.
Yeah, I love it.
I think it's it's really uhinteresting to be maintaining
some kind of legacy media likethat in a way, but you know,
trying to find a way to fit itin in the modern world that
would still be applicable.
Um cool, very cool.
Uh so what's a PR or visibilitytrend that everybody's kind of
(33:22):
chasing after right now that youthink is maybe overhyped or a
waste of time?
Is there anything like that?
SPEAKER_04 (33:27):
Um, I mean, I think they work, it's just
short-lived, right?
You look on all the TikToktrends, right?
TikTok trends, everybody fromlike a small individual, you
know, teenager, you know,teenagers to celebrities that
have their own businesses,Fortune 500 companies, they're
all getting on these trends.
And I think that it's allowingpeople to feel like they're part
of something, no matter whatyour age is, no matter what you
(33:50):
look like.
I think that that's the beautyof that.
I think the one thing though isit is really short-lived.
So like I think it's good for aperiod of time, but that's all
that it's good for.
Do you know what I'm saying?
So I would say, like, trendwise, like I think the TikTok
trends are a great, really funway to engage with a massive
audience of all different typesof people.
SPEAKER_03 (34:08):
Um but it's gonna be gone by tomorrow, kind of thing.
Like, yeah, but it's a shortride, basically.
SPEAKER_04 (34:14):
Yeah, but you gotta be on while it's hot.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's the thing.
If you miss it and it's two dayslater, it is too late because
there's a new trend that's out.
SPEAKER_03 (34:23):
Yeah.
So to being timely that'simportant.
Respond quickly, absolutely.
Uh so looking forward, what isuh kind of what's next for you?
What's your next move?
What's on your horizon?
What are you thinking about?
SPEAKER_04 (34:37):
So um I'm actually creating a newsroom, so a
digital newsroom.
So I'm taking, I'm doing moreeditorial articles online now
regularly.
Um, that's kind of what I'mfocusing on because I've done
the magazine, I put my digitalmagazines online, but I think
there's so much happening moreregularly now.
So I want to create like top 10businesses to you know be
(34:58):
inspired by this season orbusiness launches because next
on scene is like what's next,right?
So I want to hyper focus on likewhat is next that you should
know about in theentrepreneurial space and small
business space.
Because I feel like there'snothing out there right now that
exists with that.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:16):
Yeah, very cool, very cool.
And if people want to find outmore about your offering and
what you do, where should theygo online?
SPEAKER_04 (35:23):
Yeah, thank you, Jeff.
So nextoncene.com is a greatplace to access.
We're really most active onInstagram.
So next on scene or Jackie Zuckon Instagram.
Um, but we're on all theoutlets.
But I would say Instagram is myfavorite platform.
So if you reach out there, itprobably will be responsive.
SPEAKER_03 (35:39):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime today.
I really appreciate it.
It's been a really fascinatinginterview, and uh I'm definitely
gonna follow you online.
Uh, if you're looking fordigital marketing services or
SEO or you want to show up at AISearch, check out
EWRdigital.com.
That's the uh sponsor of ourshow and the founder of our
show.
So uh once again, Jacqueline,thank you so much.
(36:01):
I've really enjoyed ourconversation.
Thank you, Jacqueline.
SPEAKER_04 (36:04):
Thank you, great interviewer.
Really appreciated it.
SPEAKER_03 (36:07):
Oh, thank you so much.
Uh, I enjoyed myself.
Uh, we'll see you online.
Take care.
SPEAKER_04 (36:12):
You too.
unknown (36:13):
Bye.
This is the unknown secrets of internet marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential?
Let's get started.
SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
Welcome back to the Best SBO podcast, The Unknown
Secrets of Internet Marketing.
And I've got graphic that we'vegot to remove from there.
There we go.
All righty.
I'm your guest host, JeffCampbell, as you can tell by my
uh graphic overlay skills.
Uh, second time hosting thepodcast.
Matt is off doing businessdevelopment right now, and he is
(00:38):
cooking up some reallyinteresting things for future
episodes.
So you'll want to join us forthose.
But uh today's guest is JaclynZuckerman Delori, founder and
CEO of Next on Scene Media, aBoston-based PR and media
company, helping entrepreneursand brands get seen, heard, and
remembered.
Jacqueline launched Next onScene Podcast back in 2014,
(01:00):
added a magazine in 2015, andhas since built the brand into a
full service agency, offeringwhat she calls 360-degree
visibility, strategy,storytelling, amplification
under all under one roof.
She's interviewed celebritiesand reality stars and helped
hundreds of business owners landpress placements in outlets like
USA Today, Fox, and NBC, andcreated her signature
(01:23):
blueprints.
Um, sorry, created her signatureblueprints by Jaclyn PR Roadmap
System.
Jacqueline, welcome to the show.
Great to have you with us.
SPEAKER_04 (01:32):
Jeff, that was such a nice introduction.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
Oh, you're most welcome.
It's great, great to have youwith us today.
So you launched Next on ScenePodcast back in 2014 before
podcasting was really uh athing, or not as broad as it is
right now, that's for sure.
Uh what made you bet on thattype of media as part of your
business model early in thegame?
SPEAKER_04 (01:54):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I I really fell into it.
Like I didn't really know whatit was because it radio was
still really radio still existsas you know, but it was still
really big like 11, 12 yearsago, you know.
Um, I feel like it was somethingnew and I wanted to explore
something new and exciting.
And so that's kind of why I kindof took the jump and went for
(02:15):
it.
And I thought it would allowpeople to listen on demand, and
that's really what sold me on itbecause people could listen
anytime.
So that's why I leaned into it.
I went for it.
SPEAKER_03 (02:25):
Right.
And were you a listener to a lotof shows at the time?
Yeah, digging in and exploringstuff.
You just heard about it and youthought this is a thing we
should try.
And that's how have you liked itas a tool?
So that's a long time to staywith it.
SPEAKER_04 (02:37):
Yeah, I love it as a networking tool.
I feel like I've gotten to Idon't know how you feel about
this.
I'm assuming you know, you andMatt probably feel the same, but
you really get to know peoplereally intimately and get
thought about beyond likebecause you get intimate time
with people, and I think it's agreat way to like do
introductions and be thoughtabout afterwards with no
expectation during it.
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
Yeah, I absolutely well.
My my kind of backstory actuallyis I was a listener of this
podcast, you know, going backabout 12 years because I was a
pretty early adopter when itcame to podcasting before it
even before it was even calledpodcasting.
I was, you know, just listeningand watching that space and
found it really interesting.
But I found this company throughtheir podcast.
I hired them about eight yearsago, so I was a client for like
(03:21):
four or five years, and then Igot to know the team.
They just seemed like they werehaving a good time, and the
podcast was part of that, andnow here I am hosting it.
So that is amazing.
If you if you don't think itworks for business, like it
works, and yeah, uh, you know,I'm I'm living proof of that.
So um great story.
SPEAKER_04 (03:37):
That's a great story.
Love that story.
SPEAKER_03 (03:40):
Yeah, it's it's the long game, though, definitely,
right?
Because that was like a 12-yearjourney.
Um, but it builds business, butit's it's not like flipping a
switch, you know, you'rebuilding the network, like you
said, having great conversationsand uh and learning, you know,
and making meeting great peoplealong the way.
So excellent.
Um, let's talk about uh digitalPR and SEO.
(04:00):
Those worlds have kind of meshedtogether a lot, and we're
finding that even more and more.
Like a press placement in USAToday isn't just credibility
anymore, it's a backlink.
It's you know, uh a backlinkfrom a very authoritative domain
on the internet.
So, how intentionally do youfactor in SEO into the press and
(04:22):
media placements that you'regoing after for your clients?
Yeah, well, I'm consideration.
SPEAKER_04 (04:27):
Yeah, I tell every client now that you need to
optimize your press placements.
Like you need to put on yourwebsite, you need to put on your
email signatures, like anywhereyou can link it, do you know
what I mean?
Like black backlink, the better.
Um, so I always say, like,definitely hire an SEO company
with the press placements.
But I've also seen now with AI,like when you're searching for
(04:48):
companies, when you're pressed,when you're in place online,
like a credible source, it alsois now picking up, like, oh, so
and you know, Jeff was cited inUSA Today or Business Insider.
Like those are they're nowpulling those up as like go-to
people in the industry.
So it's helping build yourcredibility even within AI and
chat and all those things.
SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
So yeah, absolutely.
Though, you know, AI search uhchannels like GPT or Perplexity
and even Google's AI overviewspull heavily from earned media
and trusted publications likethose.
Are clients coming to you askinghow do I show up when someone is
asking about AI in my, you know,asking AI for information in my
industry?
Like, are they looking for thatas a you know, the getting AI
(05:33):
visibility?
Is that a consideration for yourclients?
SPEAKER_04 (05:36):
So for me, so I think clients come to me first
to get more eyes on them interms of like public speaking,
like a thought leadership, Iwould say, is what they come to
me for.
And then I tell them once theplacements are in place, like
you should hire an SEO companyto optimize it to be more
searchable, you know, becausethe the TV stations, the
(05:58):
magazine outlets, they will putyou on their websites and I'll
tell you strategically how tomarket it in your social media,
but I'm not the tech wiz beyondthat place.
So I'm like, you need to evenmaximize the opportunities
beyond that.
And that's how companies likeyou can really help.
SPEAKER_03 (06:13):
So yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And we love to help uh getinvolved with that.
And we we found you know theneed to have discussions and
conversations with people morein the traditional PR space as
well, to bring in their skillset to solve some of the client
problems that uh clients bringto us as well.
So here's a thesis I want to getyour take on.
(06:34):
PR is becoming an effective SEOstrategy because AI models
trusts you know the third-partycoverage more than anything a
brand says about itself.
Do you agree with thatstatement, or would you have a
different take on it?
SPEAKER_04 (06:47):
Can you repeat it again?
SPEAKER_03 (06:49):
Yeah, so it's like the the concept that um that PR
is like the kind of the best SEOmove that you can do uh because
of how much AI loves that thirdparty statement.
It's like a lot of traditionalSEO is like what we say about us
on our website and our blog andthings that we're doing for
ourselves to get ranking, asopposed to when you go to those
(07:11):
third party, you know, gettingplaced on you know Forbes or USA
Today, that's a like a trustedthird party, and that's more,
you know, the the idea is thatthat's more critical to the AI
search because of its thirdparty nature, as opposed to us
saying, hey, we're here andwe're awesome.
You know, everybody's gonna saygood things about themselves,
right?
But third party more trust.
SPEAKER_04 (07:33):
No, I I think it's I think it's really so just
correct me if I'm answeringcorrectly because it sounds so
technical, so I'm just beinghonest with that too.
So I think it's really valuableto have PR because automatically
it gives you great SEO in AI.
It does, it gives you great SEOin AI, it gives you great SEO on
Google, but sometimes you evenneed well, you 100% need people
(07:55):
to go in and make it so itattracts even more people
outside of their audiences.
And that's where I feel like youguys come in.
Does that kind of answer thatquestion?
SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Like the way the way we wouldlook at it is that there's
foundational pieces that youwant to have your information
architecture correct, you know,and your your kind of uh uh
information entities correct.
Not, you know, it used to bemostly just about your own
website and your backlinkscoming to your site, but now
it's like your informationacross a variety of channels,
(08:27):
including your website andprimarily your website, but also
other places where people mightbe talking about things like you
know, the the uh the LLMs arelooking for original, authentic,
accurate, up-to-dateinformation.
So they're going to places likeReddit, you know, scraping
Reddit for because it's freshconversation, it's fresh
authentic conversation,generally speaking.
(08:49):
Although, as people try and gameReddit more, maybe the
authenticity factor is gonna getpushed down a bit because
everybody's always trying to,you know, game the system to get
that exposure.
But uh we we find it it's yeah,you know, third-party articles,
backlinks, and all that workreally well when your core
information on your website isstructured correctly and your
(09:10):
data is marked up correctly.
SPEAKER_04 (09:12):
But I would even just to follow up with that
thought though, Jeff, like Ithink for your name imprint,
like for for being on a crediblecompany website, like does
incredible opportunities foryour personal brand, you know,
like for SEO purposes.
So, like, yeah, I just wanted toshare that too.
I think that that's valuable aswell.
SPEAKER_03 (09:31):
So yeah, it it does credibility, but then when you
go down to kind of the machinelevel, like Matt even had an
issue with um because there arethere are you know it's a pretty
common name.
There are multiple Matt Bertramsout there, and there are even
some who are in a space that'syou know not directly, you know,
kind of competing with what hedoes, but but very adjacent, and
(09:53):
and it would be easy for youknow, the machines need a lot of
they need specific literalinformation to interpret, right?
And so, you know, it's aquestion of like, are we going
with Matt Bertram or MatthewBertram?
And like, how do we how do wedifferentiate him from those
other ones who are some you knowkind of public facing figures
out there as well?
And you know, yeah, you have tohave a really uncommon name to
(10:17):
be the only person with yourname, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:19):
Really, really good point, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (10:21):
So that's uh you know, that's where that
structural stuff can come in tolike help just really spell it
out for the machines.
Like, who are we talking aboutwhen we talk about this name?
Uh so that and then that goes inwith the you know the
third-party exposure and the PR.
It's like, but are the machinesunderstanding the entity
correctly?
Of like, is it this Map Virginversus that Map Virgin type of
(10:44):
thing?
So, anyways, yeah, nerdy in thereads there, as I tend to do,
but um uh so when a client, solet's talk about podcasting in
terms of like a tool for gettingthat exposure.
When a client gets featured uhin a podcast or you interview
them in a podcast, what's yourwhat do you do with that content
(11:04):
afterwards to kind of get themost value out of it?
Because that's a starting point,right?
SPEAKER_04 (11:09):
Great question, because my company is filled
with a lot of content, likethat's just I'm sure you guys in
your own way to experience that.
So, what we do is we promote, webreak them up because obviously
podcasts are long.
So, how do you splice up thecontent, create them into
content nuggets, and repurposethem over time?
So we take episodes, we splicethem, we repurpose them in the
(11:30):
social media feeds, we repurposethem um in like uh email blasts.
Like we've kind of done a littlebit of testing.
And then what I've done in thepast, I don't do as much now, is
I really utilized Facebookgroups and I used to reshare my
content there too, because thereare a lot of niche people that
are looking for specific thingsto listen to.
(11:51):
Um, so those are things I haddone in the past, blogs.
I definitely have had blogswhere people can click and
write, read and listen to themthere on my website, and then
you optimizing YouTube.
YouTube is so huge for you knowvisual and audio avenues.
SPEAKER_03 (12:06):
So yeah, absolutely.
And and the way we, you know,from our SEO perspective, we
refer to it as the secondbiggest search engine in the
world, right out there.
SPEAKER_04 (12:14):
Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (12:15):
Which it is, yeah.
But that's our that's a reallyinteresting take about you know,
like specific Facebook groupsbecause you've got a you know, a
self-selected audience that'sinterested in a particular topic
there, so that's a really greatidea.
SPEAKER_04 (12:30):
And even like just to follow up on that thought,
like LinkedIn has groups toothat's great for that, too.
You know, like I used to do thatwhen my podcast was my sole
thing, like that's what I whereI put a lot of my time into
because there, even thoughpeople don't necessarily click
and like and comment on things,they're they're watching, you
know what I'm saying?
So I think that there's a lot ofvalue to be had there.
SPEAKER_03 (12:51):
Yeah, like as opposed to just like kind of
spraying it everywhere andsaying, here's our information,
you're you've already got like auh a pre-selected, uh, you know,
self-identified audience ofpeople with a particular topical
interest.
So if you if you're a match forthat, yeah, that that's that's
uh brilliant for sure.
Um, let's talk about the flipside of visibility.
(13:12):
So when a client comes to youwith you know a negative article
that's been published or so, youknow, pile of bad reviews that's
sitting on page one of Google,do you have a particular kind of
approach or playbook for doingdamage control for those who are
such a great question?
SPEAKER_04 (13:28):
This happened to one of my clients not too long ago.
Um, my first, this is maybe yourexpertise, but I'm speaking from
a publicist standpoint.
So I always say to first, youcan't, I'm sure you guys know,
like you can't remove a Googlereview if it's bad.
Like it takes a long time to dothat.
So I'm always like, reach out toall your other clients you love,
(13:50):
like, know, and trust, and havethem start reviewing you so it
pushes the crap out of that um,you know, the bad review down to
the bottom.
I always say, like, that's agreat way to start doing that.
Um, and then I've totally hadclients in the past that have
been on television, got so muchattention, and kind of um
decided that it wasn't fit forthem anymore.
They were very intimidated bythat.
(14:10):
And to just kind of talk about atwo-folded area of what you're
saying.
I think that sometimes there's alot of judgment that comes with
growth and visibility.
And so I feel like it'simportant to build confidence
and I'm spiritual, work on yourspirituality.
And I think that really allowsyou to show up more confidently
and translate more positiveopportunities to yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (14:32):
Yeah, having that skill of being able to to kind
of face a storm or even likewhat do people think about me if
I put myself out there publiclyis gonna be really intimidating
for a lot of people.
But um, yeah, on on the on thenegative on the recovering from
negative publicity, like withGoogle reviews.
Um, we actually had somebody whogave us a negative review and
(14:56):
got very personal about it andstarted like posting screenshots
of emails.
You said this and you said that,and it was crazy, and we just
pointed it out to Google, andthey're like, Yeah, that's not
happening.
Like, so they they removed itright away because this person
was completely on some things,yeah.
So it can be done, but yeah,it's not just a regular bad
review, it's when people arelike get get you know good
(15:17):
crossing the line in terms ofwhat they're they're sharing.
But I've also seen it go theother way where um, you know,
just reaching out to thedisgruntled uh customer and
saying, Hey, how can we fixthis?
And had we've seen situationswhere like a one star turned
into a five-star review onGoogle because they had a legit
problem with something thathappened.
It was a different company I wasworking for, but uh you know, we
(15:38):
turned it around, and that'sthat's not always easy to do,
but it can happen.
SPEAKER_04 (15:42):
So there's ways to Yeah, and I just want to bob on
your on your two-folded questionbecause you said something of
like bad articles that come outor whatever, and I think that
that's common, especially inlike I don't know, celebrity PR,
like you think about the coldplay concert, like you think
about things that have justhappened that you just can't
like it's such a short-termthing if you think about it in
(16:03):
the big scheme of things, thatit's almost like you need to not
let it consume your ownday-to-day content and focus on
other positive things that youor your company can offer.
You can't take away whathappened, but you can switch the
narrative.
So, like they know that you'renot hyper-focused on it.
Does that make any sense?
So I always say, Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03 (16:22):
Yeah, it's like we yeah, we you don't want to spend
a lot of time spinning in thatcycle of of engaging with the
negativity.
Uh, I think you know, take thehigh road, answer it once, and
then we're moving on.
Exactly.
If if it even merits an answer.
So let's let's go back to um theconcept here with uh the PR and
SEO kind of worlds overlapping.
(16:44):
Should PR agencies and SEOagencies uh find ways to
collaborate more?
And where do you seeopportunities uh for working
together?
SPEAKER_04 (16:54):
Yeah, I mean, I love I've I work with a few SEO
companies over the years.
So I know a lot of value of likeI'm not good with back
personally, I'm not good withback end website stuff, like any
of the things to optimize theback end of how hyperlink things
to make them maximize moreaudiences.
So I always say, like, I can dothe front end and I can get more
(17:15):
eyes on you from the front end,but to really double down and
grow, you need an SEO company toreally optimize it long term.
Because my social media, like mysocial media that I strategize
with and the PR stuff, can comeoff short-lived if it's not
remarketed.
And people need to be educated.
So, like clients that stay onwith me for a long time, like we
know how to repurpose thecontent and all those things.
(17:36):
If you're with a PR company fora short-term period of time,
even though those articles liveon those TV news sites forever,
if you're not remarketing it orit's not hyperlinked on your
website, it's lost, lost money,lost time, all the things,
right?
So I'm always like an SEOcompany can help that front end
be more regular, consistent.
(17:56):
Does that make any sense?
SPEAKER_03 (17:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
No, it it so some of thiscontent stuff is playing the
long game.
And you know, some content isephemeral and it's down the
river, and just we're done withit.
And the other of it will uh haveyou know kind of evergreen
value, like depending on whatthe topic is being discussed.
If it's current events, maybeit's not so relevant a year from
now, but there are some thingsthat we can talk about that will
(18:19):
absolutely be relevant, and thatthere will be, you know, that
link will come through three,four years later.
And that's you know, it's likepodcasting.
Oh, we did a podcast.
Did we get new customers nextmonth?
Well, no, but maybe you got onelike two years from now, and you
but you didn't even have theattribution to know.
And and that, you know, that'sone thing that we really like to
do is is you know, can we find away to get attribution and
(18:42):
measurement even over the longhaul, right?
Of the investment that we made.
But it's also to some extentjust understanding that you
know, in the world of search,uh, you know, the machine runs
on content.
And so having a steady flow,which podcasting is a great way
to create that steady flow, isyou know, it has value even if
(19:04):
you can't prove the value.
You should try to prove thevalue, but even if you can't,
like we just trust that it's agood thing to be creating
valuable content for people.
SPEAKER_04 (19:12):
I just see, but I don't know if you have like
thoughts on this too, but evenjust the stamp of having like
NBC on your website, like NBCFox, like I think about all the
placements I've done over theyears.
Like, you even if the articleisn't relevant, it's about how
you're marketing the placementsthat you got, right?
Like, it's like how can you likesubtly say, like, it could have
(19:35):
been on something like you said,like a tournament that's not
relevant anymore, but it's stilla stamp on your brand that gives
you the credibility to get morepeople know that you've been
placed there, you know.
So I think it's a two-folded um,yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (19:48):
You're making me think of things that I've
engaged with in the past, likethey had, you know, uh sort of
audience outreach things wherethey they were looking for
questions for interviews on CNN,you know, it was kind of cool.
I sent in a question that and itwas an author of a book that I
had read, and they used myquestion and they asked him the
question and they put my name.
This question came in from JeffCampbell.
(20:09):
And you know, that was just kindof a cool experience, but it's
like, hey, CNN used my question,so I've you know, in a very tiny
way, my content's been featuredon CNN, right?
But they wanted to engage thatway, so it's amazing though.
It's a legit, yeah, it's cool,like that you can have those uh,
you know, for that as anexperience, so that was like you
know, probably like 15 years agowhen that happened.
(20:29):
I was like, wow, that's so coolthat that you know the world was
getting to that place where wecan, you know, because before
you could not reach up to a bigmedia channel like that and get
anything on there at all, likeit just so true out of reach,
right?
So yeah, the world has uh hasshifted.
Uh I'd like to okay.
So you've interviewed uhcelebrities and reality stars.
(20:53):
What did promoting famous peopleteach you about promoting less
famous people?
Was there something from theirworld that kind of became a
lesson about how they went aboutthings?
SPEAKER_04 (21:06):
What an interesting question.
Um did they teach me anything?
So repeat the second part of thequestion.
SPEAKER_03 (21:13):
Yeah, so so so they're they're automatically,
you know, if somebody's uh apublic figure, they probably
have a machine around them tohelp them with their their PR
and their publicity and how theyget the message out there or
whatever.
Did you like pick up any tipsfrom them?
As uh, you know, they were like,Oh, that's a good, I hadn't
thought of doing that before, ordid you pretty much have your
(21:34):
game on?
SPEAKER_04 (21:35):
I think I just always so I think I just talk to
them like normal people.
I never treat anyone different.
And I so I haven't really, I'mbeing honest with you, like I
think that that's why I'vegotten the interviews I've
gotten because they're veryimpressed with like that.
I'm not starstruck, that I'mjust a genuine, like want to
have a conversation with you.
So I really see everybody as thesame, no matter what the status
(21:58):
is.
I think people that are smallbusinesses that are Come on,
just don't have the exposure orhave ever been on shows before.
So they're definitely way moreintimidated.
You know, like I think the onlything I've experienced at the
really high level is we havethis limited time frame.
This is the amount of time Ihave.
You know, like it's very like,I'm like, don't worry, we'll be
on time.
Like it's all good.
Like, and they're very impressedby that, you know.
(22:18):
So I think that that's the onlything that I've seen that
they're like just veryregimented in terms of how much
time they can give you, youknow.
So, but some aren't like that,some are.
SPEAKER_03 (22:28):
Sure, sure, Brady and use your time well, I guess,
is the exact way from that one.
Yeah, for sure.
So blueprints by Jason.
Uh, what you know, tell me alittle bit about what goes into
your visibility roadmap or howyou think about that when you're
building that roadmap forsomebody.
SPEAKER_04 (22:44):
Yeah.
So I clients come to you whenthey want to get more publicity,
be on TV, be in magazines.
So I look at all of theirmarketing, like front-end
marketing.
So their website messaging,their visuals, their photo and
video content, um, anypartnerships they've done, have
they built their personal brand,any like headshots they have.
Like I look for anything that'soutdated that doesn't depict
(23:07):
their bigger goals.
And we create a message andvisuals to get them to the end
goal as like the thought leaderin their space, as the go-to
person they want to be.
Um, because for me, I truly feelthat you can change careers any
day, but you're always yourpersonal brand.
Like you can continue to evolve,but you're still Jeff.
(23:27):
You know what I mean?
Like, so people always know youas Jeff Campbell and people
always know me as Jacqueline,but like I can have multiple
careers in my life.
So I think that that's what Ilove to hone in on of like
keeping the consistency of yourpersonal brand where your heart
lives, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (23:43):
So yeah, love it, love that, you know, that kind
of authenticity in the in theincreasingly, you know, flooded
with AI content world.
I think there's a there's a realum, you know, the the the value
of that personal brand and thatyou know backed by authenticity,
not like just a facade, but youknow, like hey, here's a real
(24:03):
me, here's what you get.
Uh, I think that's refreshing toa lot of people.
They they really engage withthat.
SPEAKER_04 (24:09):
For sure.
SPEAKER_03 (24:10):
Um, and so you're trying to bring that out for
your clients, like help them tofind what their voice is or
their kind of how to get acrosslike who they really are to
their audience.
SPEAKER_04 (24:20):
So I and this is what I'm continuing to teach
people like the most vulnerablethings about your life.
You don't have to shareeverything, but that's for
people connect.
And so that is something that AIcan never take from you.
So, like, I love AI, like Ithink it simplifies so many
things, but the human connectionit will never replace, you know,
like emotions and that that'sreally what I teach people to
(24:43):
get more confident sharingthrough video, through photos,
through how they'recommunicating it to the world.
Like, that's what I love to do.
So that's that's how I do it.
So I help directly create andproduce all those sort of
things.
SPEAKER_03 (24:57):
So yeah, amazing.
You know, I I always say thatyou know, I'm trying to think
about the like what what dohumans have that AI doesn't
have?
Because AI is so impressive, itcan do so much, it can do it
really quickly.
Uh, and the thing that AIdoesn't have and will never
really have is stories from thetrenches, like it just hasn't
had a human experience, right?
It can probably be taught tomake stuff up.
(25:19):
God help us that that everhappens.
We don't want that, but um, youknow, stories from the trenches,
like real human experience iswhat is, I think, interesting
and engaging a lot of time to topeople.
Um in terms of approaching uh,you know, when it when
individuals are pitchingthemselves to media, do you see
(25:41):
any kind of mistakes or or kindof errors in thinking that
people make when they're whenthey're first trying to start
that process?
SPEAKER_04 (25:49):
Great question.
I love this question.
So this is where people use toomuch AI, and this is why it
doesn't translate.
This is where like I think AI isgreat for a baseline.
For a baseline, like template,like create a press release for
me.
Here's what I'm thinking, yadayada yada.
If you don't know anything aboutwhat the reporter's reporting
on, if you don't know anythingpersonal about them, they're not
(26:12):
gonna read your email, they'regonna put it in the trash.
So, like, I think this is wherethe human connection comes in.
Like, you need to do yourresearch on who the reporters,
editors, and journalists are,like spend time engaging in
their content for a littlewhile, like really spend time
that you care that you'restanding out to them.
Because I think they get well, Iknow they get pitched thousands
(26:32):
of emails a day.
So, like if you're not standingout in the weeds authentically,
like it's not being paidattention to.
SPEAKER_03 (26:40):
Yeah, there just reminds me, there's a guy uh I
I'm based out of Canada.
There's a guy up here who is amusic journalist and he goes by
the handle Nardwar the humanserviette, which is serviette in
Canada, is a napkin, basically.
Like he's like the human napkin.
Funny name, but his whole thing,and he is very well respected in
(27:02):
the musical industry, especiallywith a lot of rap artists,
because he will get the deepest,most, you know, the deepest
level of research that you canpossibly do.
Like he'll find out who yourbest friend was in grade six and
like ask you about it in theinterview, and people are always
their jaws just hitting thefloor because he's always like
gone back and found out, youknow, talk to their mom or
(27:22):
something like that, and foundout like the most deepest
research that nobody canimagine, and and built the whole
thing on that.
And as a result, this guy islike beloved in the music
community because everybody justlike this guy cares about it.
And then he also goes and findsgifts.
He's like, Here's the firstoriginal LP you guys issued in
like 1989, and it's you know,he'll he'll give it to them as a
(27:43):
gift, you know, it's like someobscure piece of like
memorabilia that has that'samazing!
SPEAKER_04 (27:49):
That's really amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (27:50):
It's like a lot of work that goes into that.
SPEAKER_04 (27:53):
There's definitely a lot of work that goes into that.
SPEAKER_03 (27:55):
Yeah, but it's like the guy's built his whole career
based on like deep research,caring more than anybody has
ever cared about like aninterview before, basically.
And uh it's it's just youreminded me of that.
It's it's kind of wild actually.
Thanks for caring that.
SPEAKER_04 (28:10):
That's really but that's like a great example of
how to stand out to people, andit absolutely worked, you know
what I mean?
SPEAKER_03 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's funny because he he hasa very uh uh you know, he wears
like kind of a funny hat andlike plaid pants and stuff.
He's got a whole shtick to it,and people used to make fun of
him, like get out of here, youknow, like dismiss him at the
beginning.
There's even some bands who liketreated him really badly, but
over time as people realize,wow, this guy is like a true fan
of the genre and has thebackground and the research,
(28:41):
they just came to love, youknow, like Snoop Dogg and like
different people like that justlove the guy uh because because
of how much he cares about thesubject matter, anyways.
Good on a tangent of old there,but I'll send you like worth
it's really it's really worth alook if you haven't haven't seen
his uh his content.
Um okay, so let's talk now aboutyou've got a magazine as part of
(29:05):
your mix.
We really, you know, we gotpodcasting, we got AI search and
PR and all this, but you're alsostill doing a uh magazine.
How does that fit into yourbusiness?
SPEAKER_04 (29:14):
So when I started, I'm from New York originally and
now live in Boston, but when Istarted here in mass with um PR,
like I had no connections.
So I was in New York for therelocated, I had no connections,
and I was like, I'm meeting somany small businesses that have
great stories.
Like, how can I help them?
And I went to Canva and I, youknow, this was like 2014.
(29:37):
I went on Canva and I made amagazine, and it was originally
for people that were just on mypodcast of stories I was
sharing, and it absolutely likeoutgrew my podcast guests, it
went international, and I waslike, wow, like it kind of like
outgrew me.
And so it was just my mom and Ithat put it together for a long
time, and then um I decided togo down to once a year because
(29:58):
it was a huge project.
Um, so now I have a graphicdesigner and I we just continue
to grow, it's really exciting.
SPEAKER_03 (30:05):
So you still do like a paper print version of this
magazine?
Totally do, yeah.
And like who do you who do yousend it to?
Like how does this getdistributed and what how do you
decide?
SPEAKER_04 (30:15):
Great question.
So I think the reason I'vesurvived as long as I have is
because I print on demand.
I print for events that I do forlaunch events.
I have subscribers, but it'smore on demand.
So I don't have to be obligatedto print thousands of copies.
So I think that that's anotherreason, cost-wise, that it's
helped me a lot over the years.
(30:35):
Um, it really like for me, it'sjust been a passion project.
Like I started with smallbusinesses, then went to
celebrities launching businessventures they were doing or new
businesses they were launching.
Um, and it's just become areally like luxury.
Like my goal is to be in privatejets because I think that's the
type of caliber of people thatwill actually want the tangible,
(30:57):
glossy magazine withentrepreneurship articles, you
know.
So that's yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (31:03):
Yeah, I mean, there it's like it also kind of
anchors you in that traditionalworld of media that uh we've a
lot of us maybe think, oh, theworld has moved beyond that, but
it's still a thing.
People will pick up a magazinefrom time to time.
But it also gets it just givesyou that association with kind
of a past age of media uh that'smaybe a little bit nostalgic or
(31:24):
something that people have that,you know, we've all had that
experience uh at some point inthe past, picking up and it's
leaking through a magazine, andnow you're you're kind of
keeping that alive and connectedto it.
SPEAKER_04 (31:33):
So it's kind of a cool legacy thing there to uh my
goal, the only reason I don'teven remember originally I
started right because I wantedto help the small business like
share their messages who didn'thave contacts in media.
So originally started there, andthen I was like, this doesn't
feel sustainable long term.
Like, what's the real goal withthis?
So my goal really was to be aforced read in airplanes for
(31:54):
print because that's the onlyplace people read tangible
magazines.
So that's why for so long, atleast from a print side, like
that's where I want to be,because I can naturally like can
see that not being hugeoverheads, and it's more like
it's more containable, you know.
So I have a ton of digitalreading, that's where most of my
readership is.
(32:15):
But for the people that want thephysical copies, that's how I
can keep it living withoutfeeling like I'm overextending
myself.
SPEAKER_03 (32:21):
Yeah, and I mean if it's on planes, like people
would leave it on thereprobably, like for exactly,
exactly.
And do you try to tie it intoyour like digital at all with
like QR codes or is there anykind of oh totally?
So are you measuring what comesfrom the magazine in any way?
SPEAKER_04 (32:38):
Like I should.
I just because I just startedoriginally as a passion project,
being completely honest here,like I probably should to this
day.
Like I create bit.ly links andstuff.
Like, I that's the probably themost trackable thing I've done
over the years.
Um, but outside of that, likeit's just been a passion
project, it's been a greatnetworking tool for me over the
years.
Like, between that and thepodcast, it's really how I grew
(33:00):
my network to where I'm attoday.
SPEAKER_03 (33:02):
So awesome.
Yeah, I love it.
I think it's it's really uhinteresting to be maintaining
some kind of legacy media likethat in a way, but you know,
trying to find a way to fit itin in the modern world that
would still be applicable.
Um cool, very cool.
Uh so what's a PR or visibilitytrend that everybody's kind of
(33:22):
chasing after right now that youthink is maybe overhyped or a
waste of time?
Is there anything like that?
SPEAKER_04 (33:27):
Um, I mean, I think they work, it's just
short-lived, right?
You look on all the TikToktrends, right?
TikTok trends, everybody fromlike a small individual, you
know, teenager, you know,teenagers to celebrities that
have their own businesses,Fortune 500 companies, they're
all getting on these trends.
And I think that it's allowingpeople to feel like they're part
of something, no matter whatyour age is, no matter what you
(33:50):
look like.
I think that that's the beautyof that.
I think the one thing though isit is really short-lived.
So like I think it's good for aperiod of time, but that's all
that it's good for.
Do you know what I'm saying?
So I would say, like, trendwise, like I think the TikTok
trends are a great, really funway to engage with a massive
audience of all different typesof people.
SPEAKER_03 (34:08):
Um but it's gonna be gone by tomorrow, kind of thing.
Like, yeah, but it's a shortride, basically.
SPEAKER_04 (34:14):
Yeah, but you gotta be on while it's hot.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's the thing.
If you miss it and it's two dayslater, it is too late because
there's a new trend that's out.
SPEAKER_03 (34:23):
Yeah.
So to being timely that'simportant.
Respond quickly, absolutely.
Uh so looking forward, what isuh kind of what's next for you?
What's your next move?
What's on your horizon?
What are you thinking about?
SPEAKER_04 (34:37):
So um I'm actually creating a newsroom, so a
digital newsroom.
So I'm taking, I'm doing moreeditorial articles online now
regularly.
Um, that's kind of what I'mfocusing on because I've done
the magazine, I put my digitalmagazines online, but I think
there's so much happening moreregularly now.
So I want to create like top 10businesses to you know be
(34:58):
inspired by this season orbusiness launches because next
on scene is like what's next,right?
So I want to hyper focus on likewhat is next that you should
know about in theentrepreneurial space and small
business space.
Because I feel like there'snothing out there right now that
exists with that.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:16):
Yeah, very cool, very cool.
And if people want to find outmore about your offering and
what you do, where should theygo online?
SPEAKER_04 (35:23):
Yeah, thank you, Jeff.
So nextoncene.com is a greatplace to access.
We're really most active onInstagram.
So next on scene or Jackie Zuckon Instagram.
Um, but we're on all theoutlets.
But I would say Instagram is myfavorite platform.
So if you reach out there, itprobably will be responsive.
SPEAKER_03 (35:39):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime today.
I really appreciate it.
It's been a really fascinatinginterview, and uh I'm definitely
gonna follow you online.
Uh, if you're looking fordigital marketing services or
SEO or you want to show up at AISearch, check out
EWRdigital.com.
That's the uh sponsor of ourshow and the founder of our
show.
So uh once again, Jacqueline,thank you so much.
(36:01):
I've really enjoyed ourconversation.
Thank you, Jacqueline.
SPEAKER_04 (36:04):
Thank you, great interviewer.
Really appreciated it.
SPEAKER_03 (36:07):
Oh, thank you so much.
Uh, I enjoyed myself.
Uh, we'll see you online.
Take care.
SPEAKER_04 (36:12):
You too.
unknown (36:13):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com