August 12, 2026 • 44 mins
This week on What Are We Even Doing?, we’re throwing it back to one of our favorite episodes with model, actress, voracious reader, and all-around force of nature: Kaia Gerber. Please enjoy these highlights from this knee-slapping episode! Kaia comes armed to the pod with book recs, Shakespeare burns, and the charisma of someone who once played Tree #2. The two chat about core memories that led her to acting, modeling as performance, and why live theater is the ultimate crash course in fearlessness. Also, Kaia’s obsession with reading and how her Library Science community came to be.
Tune in every Wednesday for new episodes of What Are We Even Doing?
Executive Producers: iHeart Media, Elvis Duran Podcast Network & Full Picture Productions
Executive Produced for Full Picture Productions by Desiree Gruber & Anne Walls Gordon
Produced by Ben Fingeret, Nora Faber & Maia Mizrahi
Editing by Nicholas Giuricich & Cosmo Salovaara
Music by Yatta
Art by Danica Robinson
Additional GFX by Chris Olfers/The Southern Influence
Styling by Dot Bass
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Lily.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Every great actor starts out as a treat. When I'm
not watching your video as a hot dog or dancing
to Charlie XCX, I'm reading a book.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Well when you were, did you think, oh my mom, no.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's about me. And I chose to do with my
cement and I traumatized a bunch of six year olds
frowning yours.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I don't know why I got you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I was like, you've never read Room. Though you're supposed
to be crying out, I don't know if you're laughing
at this. And then there were other times where it
was like stand and do nothing, and then I was like,
I'm bored. At this point, They're like, oh God, just
tell us what we can watch it. But from my mom,
I knew it was a big compliment. This is like
the comments section of my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Ladies and gentlemen today. KaiA Gerber is with US, actress, model,
and self proclaimed bookworm. Yes, you talk about that because
I am not well read and you.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I find that very hard to believe.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I don't have much time. But you on a journey.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
When you left school, you left high school, right, you
decided you know what I'm going to go and I'm
going to learn.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
As much as I can.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Everything is, it's perfect. But I have to ask you
this question first. So do you have a core memory
thinking back about inside out right, a core memory of
when you realize, oh, this is what I want to do.
You do a lot of things, So what in particular
the first thing that was like I want to do this,
I want to be this. Was there a moment or
(01:29):
a yeah you remember? Okay?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I think in terms of literature, I my brother is
two years older, and he was covering of Mice and
Men for his class, okay, and I was probably far
too young to be reading it, but I saw that
my mom was reading it with him, and I was
really interested, so I started reading it with them. And
then when it came to do our book reports, I
(01:54):
think I was probably in second grade and you could
choose whichever book, and a lot of people were doing
like you know, Nancy Drew and like the box Car
children and stuff, and I chose to do with Mice
Men and I traumatized a bunch of you know, six
year olds and my lord, but that I think that
was really the thing that showed me that I really
loved easy sort of gateway into literature.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, heavy themes, heavy themes.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Did you graduate school?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I did so. I went, Yeah, graduate to high school,
and then I went to the University of Washington in Seattle,
and I was on the five year plan. I started
with a love of acting, but but didn't feel like
that was something I should study. You know, I needed
to go to college and to study get a career.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah. Is anyone in your family artists other than you?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Well, my mom liked the community theater and she could
play the piano by my dad was also Yeah, she
was one of those sit down and she could play anything.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I know, I'm so jealous of people.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I am too. I studied piano, can't play a thing.
But she was the one who encouraged me in the arts.
So tried school. I actually left school briefly to go
back home, and I worked in a factory doing something horrible,
and then I had a summer stock experience and then
I was like, I think this is what I should do.
(03:16):
I think I'm better at this than I am at
anything else that I'm doing. Yeah, that's how I stepped
into the world. You are now fully engaged in the world.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Which is how we met I know, Yeah, I was similar,
where like I did a lot of community theater and
was always in school plays and things like that.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You were the second Tree, We're too good research. That
popped out to me.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That was my first role.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Really, Yes, I also were a tree?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You were?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And what Yeah, Wiley and the Hairy Man. Yeah, children's theater.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Every great actor starts out as a tree.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I mean you have to. It's crucial, right, I mean,
what is it about a tree that I think is
so critical? What did you learn is playing a tree?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
What I learned about being Tree three number two specifically,
was you still have to go to all the rehearsals.
You know, It's not like, oh, you're the tree, so
you get off easy. And I think this is true
for pretty much every acting job I've had, no matter
how big the part is, the commitment is pretty much
the same, and you know, and if you love it,
you want to bring all of yourself to it. So
(04:19):
I think being Tree number two, they actually this is
the part of the story I didn't tell and people
don't know, but I got cast as Tree number two, right,
and I was so committed and I showed up early
to every rehearsal and I knew everyone's line is not
just my one line, and they felt bad for me,
I think because they saw how committed I was amongst
all these other eight year olds who didn't really care.
(04:39):
And they then gave me the role of Anti M
like three months into rehearsal because they were like, this
poor girl is really showing up.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So I got to do a couple performances as Antim.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I would have been happy just to get to be
three number one.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I know, well that was what I was going. But
then when I got Auntim, I was like, it's over.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't know if I see you as Auntie M.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
But yeah, it was definitely a reach. It was a
reach of a role. But I am a character actor.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yes you are. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I once had someone tell me that I was a
character actor stuck in a leading actress's body. That's funny,
which is funny and kind of maybe, but.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I think it's true because you have a sense of
humor and you're fearless, thank you, you know, And I
think that's a big part of being a character actor,
and you want to take You're more interested in creating
the person, yeah, as opposed to playing yourself. A reversion
of yourself exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, do you think that you're a character actor?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, I think because I think leading actor's body. I
have a look and everything, but I've never felt comfortable
in that role, you know, as a leading guy. I'm like,
I'm always I wanted to want some different. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I also sometimes find that the leads are kind of
the most boring roles. Sometimes they can be where that's
like the sort of I guess what you'd call the
secondary characters are really the interesting ones where you get
to play and like there's maybe more room to create something.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel the same way. I think you
can be stoic, you know, as a leading man, but
I think you can be one of the eccentrics on
the outside, which.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Is Yeah, what was your first like big role.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, when I my first role ever was Noah in
the in the Church play, which of course in Noah's Ark. Yeah,
that's the one. And then but the one that really
kind of turned for me, like speaking of if it
was a core memory was I had dropped out of school,
(06:32):
as I mentioned, and then I that summer I went
to summerstock at the Flat Rock Playhouse in North Carolina,
and I found my way there through securitous. I played
the lead role in Look Homeward Angel, which is a
play they did every year there because it's Thomas Wolfe
was from Asheville and North Carolina. He wrote about that
community and it was it's his personal story, and I
played him as a young man, Eugene and then he's
(06:54):
sort of the lead of the piece. And it was
with an equity cast and from New York. And I
think I did pretty good and I really loved it,
you know, and I came away feeling, oh my god,
I think this is something I can do more than
just in high school.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, And that for.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Me was kind of like, okay, that started kind of kickstarted.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Me on the trap. Yeah. Yeah. So you were a
theater before screen Oh yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Screen Dune was my first thing.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I'd never been in front of a camera before. I'd
never done anything in front of television before. I look
at it now and I sort of laughed because I'm like,
I'm clearly clueless. Is there what I'm doing?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
But do you think because you were kind of clueless,
you were fearless or were you.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I was fearless because of my training, my training. Yeah,
I was still terrified, but I was Yeah, I had
confidence because of my training. Yeah, you know, I know
how to handle this particular character. Yeah, but that was
more of a character. Yeah, and the role in Blue
Velvet was more like closer than me.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, which is sometimes scarier.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It can be very scary. Yeah, what's been this. Have
you had something that's like really scared you that you've done.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, I mean I'm terrified all the time. But everything
I do, but.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
It doesn't show, thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That's all pretty much all I'm focusing on. It's not
showing how scared I am. But I just did a
play and it was my first one since I guess
becoming a professional actor, and I started doing theater, so
I was more comfortable doing theater. But then I had
spent so much time doing screen acting jobs and going
back to doing community theater, like I did it at
(08:26):
a little theater here that was you know, ninety nine
seats and you just there's no room to lie at
all when you're doing something like that, and so I
think I just it was terrifying, and it was all
the things that I don't do in front of people,
like cry, scream, sing, dance, like just.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
All the things very emotional for the character. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, And I was working with these three incredible, like
pretty much strictly theater actors who had done so many plays.
So I kind of felt like in over my head,
but I was so grateful for the experience because I
do think as an actor, that's like the best thing
that you can do for your tools. Like I now
go back and I'm like, how have I been working
(09:09):
this long without having had that experience, Like, it's so
nice that you got to do that and then go
on to do which is a crazy trajectory.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
It was like there was like this and then it
was like this. Yeah, I say, I didn't come from
relative obscurity. I came from complete obscurity. And then had
you know, my career has been up and down. Yeah,
you will see your journey down this road. It's fascinating
and fun and frightening and rewarding and yeah, yeah, anyway,
so this is nice to hear about a little bit
about your journey.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, it is so fun, though, I think like it's
for me because there are so many ups and downs.
I was filming a TV show here and I knew
I had to be in La and I knew I
wasn't going to be working every day, so I just
decided to do a play at the same time, which
was I don't actually recommend that to anyone who wants
to keep their mental health and will, but it was
(10:00):
really great because I had this other thing, so I
didn't feel like sometimes you can feel like when you're
working you're just giving and not it doesn't feel like,
you know, sure a full circle thing. And and I
think because I was getting the experience of you know,
like film all day and then I'd go to the
theater and do the play, I was like, oh, like,
this is where they will find me out if I'm
(10:22):
a phony.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Basically, well, you make a really good point, I think,
which is when you're working in film or television, you're
working with a group of actors and the camera is
the receptive audience, right, but there's no way to really no,
I mean, you kind of know and the director it
can be helpful or not depending on the directory your are.
The cast mates can be you know, helpful, but it's
the beauty of the theater, right, Yeah, you get immediate feedback.
(10:44):
Idiot people are there. You can tell if they're with you.
You can tell if they're not with you.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Oh yeah, It's such a gift though as an actor,
Like we had this one audience that was it was
just a school and they had come on a Sunday afternoon,
and also mattene Is it's just such a differ and
experience anyways, but it was a group of these teenage
students who were not studying drama. They just they were
all studying different things. So it was a lot of
(11:09):
their first time ever seeing live theater. And so you know,
there's the layer of like are we allowed to react,
which you know in theater you want reactions. I love
like the rowdier the audience, the better for me as
an actor. And they were completely bored the whole time.
And it was it was the greatest gift because I
(11:29):
think we I mean we all spoke about it after
they were snoring. Some of them had headphones on, some
were just eating chips, they were playing games on their phone.
But it was like we learned more in that one
performance than we did, you know, and all the others,
because you can't lie to teenagers. They will find you
out when you.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Have kids authenticities.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, and I was so grateful because I was like
I thought that joke was funny, and I now realized
that I'm not delivering it right. Like, I was so
grateful we had them halfway through and it really actually
changed and impacted the show a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, I think that authenticity is such. I mean, you know,
obviously there's a generational difference between us. Right when I
was younger, there was you were really always very conscious
or self conscious, I guess about how you presented yourself.
You had, you know, everything had to look good and
be perfect, and I still carry that with me. But
I think recently, as I've become more engaged in social media,
(12:27):
I realized that's not really important. What's important is that
you are authentic to yourself, and that's what a younger
audience is responding to or seems to be.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, do you absolutely. I mean, I think it used
to be you'd only see movie stars or people either
in magazines or in a newspaper or on a red carpet,
Like you didn't see them in their homes. You didn't
see them in their everyday life. And now with social media,
there's like this direct access to people. I think it
humanizes and kind of levels everyone in a way that
(13:00):
can be really helpful. I also think your social media
presence is incredible. It's like such a I mean, I
remember when I met you. I told you that because
I had been watching your videos and I was like,
it's so niche and specific and funny and incredible, and
like to see that it transcends generations, like you were
(13:22):
coming up with things that people might wish that they had,
the sort of I remember I asked you. I was like,
please explain to me how.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Your couplet and on behalf of all of our they
are Nora is out somewhere behind hiding behind the screen. Anyway,
this is this is, this is the brain Trust.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
It's it's remarkable work. It truly is. It's brilliant. I've
been thinking a lot about because there's so many there's
so much dichotomy on social media, where like the other
day I saw a poet and he was kind of
like a Jack Kerouac type of poet, but he was
on TikTok, And then I was like, is it a
immediately not Jack Kerouac because he's on TikTok, But then
(14:04):
I was like, maybe Jack Kerouac would have actually had
a TikTok like we don't know, and so I find
it so interesting when it like transcends these different things.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, I agree, and I also love the platform. I
just love the fact that there are there's a structure
to it, there are limits to it, and the form
that you get to play with and to be creative
within that space, I think is a challenge and I
find it fun.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
It's so and as an actor to be able to
create and release your own content is such a gift.
It's you know, like I know so many people who
are just making short films and releasing them on social
media because otherwise, as an actor, you can feel very
much at the mercy of the industry and to sort
of wait around for an opportunity that like may or
may not come. So I think it's wonderful for that
(14:50):
reason too, as you actually can get your own work
out there without waiting for other people to see the talent,
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it's one of the big changes I think in
the business. I remember back in the day when I
was starting, you would send in an audition tape. I mean,
I think people still do that, but there was no
way to really let people who are casting or directors
or anyone in the film get a sense of who
you are without releasing your own stuff, and you can
do that on social right now. It's such a it's
(15:18):
like a it's an amazing thing. Obviously, we talked about
the fact that you are incredibly well read. We started
to talk about that. Yes, that is an interesting journey
to me because there are so many books that I
know of that I'm saying, oh, I should know this,
or even that my son is now reading at school,
(15:40):
and I'm like, oh, you know, And it's just finding
the time, and you know, there is time. You have
to make the time.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
You have to make the time. But also I think
because I graduated high school early, I was sixteen, so
I'm not an.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Overachiever by any means I am.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I remever go, I was like straight a's. My school
actually came to me my junior year and they were like,
we have run out of classes for you. But legally
you have to do another year of school, so you
can either retake all the same classes or just get
basically the equivalent of a GED. So I just chose
to do that. But I think because I never I
(16:17):
didn't go to college, so I didn't have the experience
of necessarily being forced to read certain books. So I
got to choose what I was reading, which I was
very grateful for. So I moved to New York after
high school. I met this wonderful man named Jonah who
now has a library which is very fitting and he's great.
I got to like go sell books with him at
(16:38):
a book fair last week. It was that's my dream.
I was like, can I have your job? But he
was at NYU studying literature and he was sort of
assigning his book list. Yeah, okay, you take me to
the bookstore and he would just be like, read this.
So I was gaining access to books I never would
have picked up at you know mcnully Jackson had I
(16:59):
gone myself. So I started quite pretentious, I have to say,
Like I was reading Plato and Cameu and like, I remember,
my mom's a huge.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Reader, the easy ones. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I was like, you've never read Rambone. My mom was
like I did that when I was twenty. You'll get
over it one day and then you'll just read for pleasure.
But I was. I loved it because it was like
this whole new world and I got to choose what
I was reading. Yeah, and then slowy over time, I
was like, I also want to read, you know, fiction
and like gripping stories. So yeah, I think that reading
can feel really sort of scary and like untouchable. But
(17:35):
there is a book for everyone. And my favorite thing
to do is a sign reading to people based off
what I think they'll like.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh good, you're going to have to give me an assignment.
Will I started with Hardy Boys, of course.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I was actually a really voracious reader. When I was
a kid, I read everything. My parents. We didn't have
a huge library. They had like the Readers Digest, condensed books, craze.
So I read Pepion and I read all these you know,
I've just's. I just find stuff, you know, I really
wanted to read. And I had my library card. Incredible,
you have a library cards, So do library cards.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
They do, but libraries sadly are dying and I don't
want them to. And now I just like I'm constantly reading,
and I think I think as an actor, there's so
much time that you're sitting and waiting around, so there's
so much time to read, and like, there's only so
much time you can spend on social media. I try
to avoid it for the most part unless I'm finding
(18:32):
like your videos basically that actually bring you joy and
not leave you feeling worse than before we try to do. Yeah,
well that's the that's kind of hard to find now
on social media. So I think that stuff is so important.
And so when I'm not doing when I'm not watching
your video as a dog or dancing to Charlie XCX,
I'm reading a book.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Isn't she wonderful?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Gosh? That was was that where we met?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah? I think we were. We're in the elevator that
one time saw you and then but I think that
was right at that time.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
That was so fun.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And yeah, she's just a delightful human. Yeah, and I
you know, I just thought she's so talented and then
we met and she's so gracious.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I was with a large group of people and she
took time and said hello to everybody, and you know,
very kind. She didn't have to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, and she hasn't. I've known her for a long
time and she hasn't changed at all, which is I think.
I mean, of course she evolves as a person, but
like she's been working so hard for so long that
this sort of what felt like overnight sort of success
was so not that, which is I often feel like
true people like to say, oh, it was an overnight thing,
(19:39):
and the person that it happened to is like I've
been working for her, yeah, so long. And that's true
for Charlie. So I think she was really ready and
grounded and knew who she was, and it really was
about the world catching up to her, not about her
changing for the world.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And she just she handles it so
so well. And she's such a terrific performer. She comes
out with energy, Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
My gosh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Power.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
When you see her up there, You're like, I could
never approach this person. I could never I mean so strong, yeah,
so strong, commands a whole entire arenas and then is
such a person and such a wonderful, generous person to
talk to. But I also wonder like when you have
moments like that, because I'll have you know, like we
went and saw Charlie and it was like the whole
cast of overcompensating, And I wish I journaled more, remembered
(20:25):
these things more, because I'm like, that probably was a
moment in your life. Was that normal at that moment
in your life.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
For me to go No, I hadn't got to a
concert for so long. Okay, but it was really fun
to be with friends like, oh this is great. So
many and the crew he was there, and it was
just so comfortable and so and so nice. And we
got to support a friend.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I mean she's a new friend to me, but she's
a friend.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh yeah. And also I'm like, well, I have like
kids one day and be like I was at Charlie
sweat door.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
That sounds kind of like me right now. I'm like
this might be that yeah, so funny. Yeah, and my
son is like, what, Dad, what's going on. When you
were younger, did you think, oh, my mom's so cool?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
No, I still don't think she's. I mean I think
she's I think she's a really cool person. Yes, she's
a total dork nerd lady. But I will say the
older I've gotten, the more I can take kind of
a step back and see and appreciate what she's done.
And I remember watching they did this Supermodels documentary on
Apple I remember, and I watched it and I was
(21:28):
like sobbing in tears, and I called her and I
was like, I think, you know, when she's my mom,
I'm not asking her like, so, why did you decide
to do Playboy? Or what how did you do the
Pepsick marcial? Like I wasn't thinking about that stuff, and
so to actually hear her story and I was like,
I never I failed to ask her all of these things.
So I really that was like a huge moment for
(21:48):
me where I realized, especially because she didn't come from
a family in the industry at all. So I'm like,
how did you navigate? Like, I don't know what I
would do without her? So I'm now there's like so
much more curiosity. I think as I've gotten older.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I think that's normal. I thinkah, we begin to sort
of look away. You're no longer focus here on yourself,
to focus on on out in the world, and there is.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
A curiosity about your first eighteen years or.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Like, I mean there's no me. Yeah, it's about me,
you know. You know, I'm sixty six and it's still
all about me. No, I'm just willing get.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Better if you do it right, It's still it's gonna always.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
It's just interesting to me, you know, growing up with
someone obviously so successful at what she did. Yeah, that
at some point in time there will be a curiosity.
But and Randy too, just about his success and yeah
and why and the choices and you know, just as
a learning mechanism. And my wife, Desiree is so good
at talking to our son about She's a really good
(22:45):
life lesson giver. So if there's something that happens, she
will frame it for him in a way that's like
that I didn't have that experience, and she just says,
this is actually a very good thing, and they will
tell you why. He's got a great mom. Amazing, Yeah,
it's really it is good to have.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Like my mom's quite like that. She's very she's very
much like, let's let's go through it together, like this
has happened to me, let's talk about it. And my
dad is kind of more of a quiet, understanding person.
But then every once in a while, like we'll go
on a walk or something and he'll say aligned to
me and I'm like, yeah, I mean, work of genius,
(23:26):
and but it's like it's really they're they're sort of
more rare. My mom's like very much like talk into therapy,
like has always been that way, and my dad is
like quieter, but then he'll just drop a line that
like rocks my world and I'll think about it for,
you know, years.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I want to ask you a little bit about the
modeling world and as you're working through a series, if
you're working with a photographer and you're doing a series
of looks and things, and that process of telling the
story and the kind of character that you develop. I
find it fascinating that you actually it is a creative
journey and you are telling a story. I mean, and
(24:08):
you're using movement, and you're using you know, obviously light movement,
what you're wearing and everything. I would love to hear
your experience of with that from that perspective.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, it's I'm happy that you see it that way.
I think a lot of people don't see it that way,
but I always saw it that way. It's such a performance,
and I think because I had been doing theater for
so long when I started modeling, I kind of had
to view it as a performance. Otherwise I'm so uncomfortable
in front of a camera, which people wouldn't believe. But
(24:38):
like when I do red carpets or like have to
show up as myself, I don't. It's like I've never
had my picture taken before. Like I'm shaking I get
so nervous.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It's nerve wing.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So many actors who feel that way too, who are
like they get so nervous to have their picture taken.
So I, even just for myself, started developing characters so
that I was able to go stand perform in front
of a camera and not feel so shy, because I
was really shy as a kid. And you know, I
started modeling when I was like fourteen, and that's scary,
(25:08):
you of all these grown ups looking at you, and
you're like, if I do a bad job, all these
people's hard work is going to go to waste. And
I think as a model, and I feel this way
about acting to some extent, but really as a model,
like you're there to showcase everyone's art. You know, it's
like the photographer's art, the lighting, the makeup, the clothes,
our art. The hair can be art's like yeah. And
(25:32):
so for me, it was always like I don't want
to let these people down, and I want to tell
their story and like figure out the best way that
I can tell the story that everyone is here to tell.
So I always would come up with little characters and
little things that entertained me on set, and I would
rarely tell people I was doing it, but you know,
like I don't think I would have been able to
(25:52):
confidently or even walk a runway like confidently, Like that's
so not my personality. Like I walk into a room
and I'm like this, but then you have to you know,
you are going and walking a runway and you have
to look confidence. So I would come up with different
sort of character characters, which.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I think is the journey towards acting. It makes a
great sense that you would then be drawn into the
world where you're now actually creating a character for a
long longer time, longer time period, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, And the more that a photographer was like, this
is the story we're telling, this is sort of who
this person is. I would get really excited, Like whenever
I would get to a set and there was a
storyline or there was a very clear sort of idea
of the story we were telling that would get me
really excited. And then there were other times where it
was like stand and do nothing, and then I was
(26:35):
like I'm bored and I feel uncomfortable. So I appreciate
the part of it that, Yeah, I think it in
a lot of ways, like prepared me to be comfortable
and to get, you know, comfortable, also living in my
head with a character for a long time and sustaining
that and like also not sharing a lot of that
process with people, Like I'm not really the kind of
(26:56):
actor that's like, this is my preparation that I did
and this is And some people do that, and I
appreciate when they do because I like hearing how other
people do it, but I don't know how to talk
about it really like what happens in my mind. And
so I think I got comfortable doing that from modeling
because I would just to entertain myself, like create entire
people and then go be them, and oftentimes people wouldn't know,
(27:17):
they would just think I was being myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
In life, Yeah, I also think an editor a good
editor on a shoot, Yeah, it's can be incredibly helpful.
I just sort of tell the story to help tell the.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Story, absolutely. I think I'm also curious how you feel
about this because it used to be all film, and
so I felt like there was so much and I've
shot a lot on film as well, there's so much
attention on you as the subject was on film and
they're not obsessing over little things. And now with digital,
everyone's looking at a computer screen, and so you're kind
(27:50):
of like up there by yourself a lot of the time,
and they're looking at you, but they're not really looking
at you. They're looking at the clothes or the hair
or whatever. So I always found that interesting where everyone
was like, I'm standing up there alone and everyone's like
over there looking at the computer screen.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You're right, it has changed. When I first started, it
was film and there was no video village, you know,
was away looking at something. And true when I started
early with taking photographs for certain things, there was no
kind of trying to look at what was already filmed
and shot. It was really about if I felt like
there was, and I still is, the energy of capturing
(28:25):
something special through the lens, which is a communication between you,
the camera and the photographer to yeah. And now it's
kind of been I don't know, it's been sort of
weak in somehow. And similar with film I remember working
with when we shot Blue Velvet with David there was
no even no monitor. He would sit right in front
(28:48):
of the camera, usually something in the ball or right
there next to it, and he was watching exactly as
close to what the lens was seeing as as the operator,
you know, and I think so he was feeling it
like a photographer would feel it. That's right, you know,
he knows you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
There was like it was an instinct thing.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah. Do you have someone that you've worked with a
couple of times or someone that you would consider maybe
like a mentor or a partner.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Or I mean I have I've never worked with the
same director twice, but I've I've worked with Rachel Sennett,
oh yeah, a bit. And I and my first film,
my first film that anyone saw, was Bottoms. So I
really felt like her and Emma Seligman, our director, and
(29:37):
iodew were like especially in comedy, because I never thought
I would ever be in a comedy. They were like
they felt I just learned so much and they weren't like,
let me take you under my wing. But I just
watched them and learned so much from them. And then
I've I've been on this TV show, Palm Royal. We
just did a second season, and Kristen Wigg has been
(29:58):
like just dream of a mentor, especially in comedy.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Oh, I'm so happy to hear.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
She is just like the loveliest you know, exceeds all
expectations and uh, and I just get to watch her
work every day, and that's I'm such a sponge, Like
I just sit and kind of watch. A lot of
people are like, are you okay, and I'm like, no,
I'm just I'm just processing information, learning, And I think,
especially early on in your career, it's wise to just
kind of like observe as much as you can.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
There's so much you can learn. I still learn working
with different actors. Actors and actress is just kind of
the process. And that's one of the things I love
just watching someone's process. Yeah, sometimes it's out of curiosity.
Sometimes it's out of oh I really like that, or
sometimes get it yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Or never do that. Sometimes it's I never want to
be that person on the set. And that's just as.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Valuable, I think completely.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Like I'm so grateful to have had all ends of
the spectrum. And I'm sure as you keep working, you
just get even more and more and more. Like I
work with Carol Burnett, who who's just a legend. I
never thought I would get to work with Carol Burnett.
She's the easiest person to work with. She's so prepared,
she's so funny, she's so lovely. She's always in a
good mood. And I'm like, if anyone had any excuse
(31:14):
to be like a total diva, Carol Burnett could get
away with murder as far as I'm concerned. And she's
the loveliest So like that has been such a lesson
for me. And oftentimes the people who are really incredible
people that you look up to conduct themselves in a
really kind, lovely way on set I found.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, she's a true pro forever and she comes with
a tremendous mount of gratitude and school and I think
she you know, it's one of the things working on
a set like that. The energy of this of the space,
the creative space is so important. It's important to me,
and it needs to be a place where there is acceptance,
there's freedom, there's there's just a creative energy that flows.
(31:53):
And anytime that there's an interruption from that, and it
can come into very different types of forms. And it
hasn't happened to me that frequently it becomes not a
pleasure and not creative. It becomes work and an effort
and you just can't wait to finish.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I know, And I really I really don't subscribe to
the belief of like it needs to be a struggle
to make interesting art. And I mean, like, I really
think the best art is created in a safe place.
And one of the people that taught me that was
Laura Dern.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Like she she's great.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
She is so great about having strong creative boundaries but
also being so lovely to everyone. And I really was like, Oh,
that's where incredible work happens is when everyone feels safe. Yeah,
And I wonder how much of that was learned because,
like you, David Lynch was like one of her big mentors.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, he's so my first you think with David, and
that was exactly the environment that he created was one
of safety. I went on and to work with other
directors where that was not necessarily a priority, and I
didn't really enjoy that. You know, you do what you
have to do, and you create your own space, you
know what I mean, you adapt tojust but when it
exists among the actors, and you know, David is very
(33:04):
specific about his casting, you know, you create a little family,
you know, Yeah, and then there's a and there's a
real connection and joy and love that's just just innate
in that environment. Yes, it's such a place that I
love to work from.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
It's so funny too, because like when I when I
did the play, I was like, God, this is going
to be so hard for my parents to watch. I
was playing a woman who was really suicidal, had a
lot of anxiety, and like, I'm a firm believer of like,
you don't become other people necessarily, it's just like you
dial up or down different parts of yourself. And I
was like, this is going to be really hard, especially
for my mom to watch, because I give like a
(33:44):
suicide voicemail to my mother that's really upsetting. And I
my first thing going in, I was like, how am
I going to cry every night? And then suddenly I
was like, how am I going to stop crying after
this scene?
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And on opening night my parents were there and I
was like think, I just was, you know, doing a
voicemail and I and I knew my mom was in
the audience, and I was just like, oh gosh, my
poor mother.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
And I got off stage and I was like, Okay,
She's like that was great, You're so brave. I was like,
but like, did you cry? And She's like no.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I was like She's like, well, I knew.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It wasn't you. I'm like, yeah, but you weren't moved
to tears. She was like no. But that's why it's
kind of fun to have parents who are not actors.
Is like, they're just they just think I'm insane for
doing what I do.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
But it's incredibly brave.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, which as an actor coming off stage, you don't
necessarily want to hear that was brave. But for my mom,
I knew it was a big compliment. But from anyone
else I would have been like, Okay, yeah, yeah, that
was brave.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, so interesting that you were more concerned about how
she might feel then oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And she was fine.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, I mean not a tear fell.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
She was completely fine.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
I give your mom more credit. It's like, oh yeah,
she's fine with that.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah. But they can handle it. They're pretty they can
handle it. I think at this point they're like, we
can pretty much handle anything.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah, that's a good sign. You're doing
something right.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Well. I think they are doing something right all right.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Books to film.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
They're starting to do film first and then write the
book after, which is interesting. Adapting books, especially really beloved
IP is scary because it can go south as we've learned. No,
But then there's also like incredible examples, and like, I
really think the marker of a successful adaptation is anyone
(35:40):
who hadn't read the book, watches it and then wants
to read the book. Like I think Call Me by
Your Name was a great example of that. A lot
of especially in the US, a lot of people hadn't
read that book and then went on to read the
book after the Luca Godonnino film. So I think I
think similarly about normal people, Like I had read that
book when it came out, and then I loved the adaptation,
(36:03):
and then I read it again, and a lot of
people like just watch the TV show and then read
the book. So I think that that's sort of the
for me, the marker of a successful adaptation. Yeah, have
you done any adaptations?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Well, The Dune was my first film.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
That's a scary one too, because that's like a huge
piece of IP.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
When I went to see The New Dune with Timoy
i was part of it, I was with some trepidation
because I said, how, it's going to be the only
Dune you know, and our Dune is going to be
put on the shelf, And then I watched it. I said, no, actually,
I think there's room for both of these.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
There's so different different, so different.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
And it's the same, you know, it's the same story,
but there they look different, they feel different, the energy
is different. They cover different territory than some of the
territory that we covered the books. There's so much in there.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
It's the thick book.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
It's just yeah, it's incredible, and it covers so many
possible themes and yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So that's one of the beautiful things about adaptations is
a lot of the time it's up to the filmmaker
the writer to decide what lane they want to take
and like what approach, because you can't. I think it's
very rare that a strict adaptation is successful because they're
different mediums for a reason, you know. And so many
of my favorite books are so internal and then you
(37:15):
think about, okay, this, let's adapt this, and then you're like,
but nothing actually really happens in the story. A lot
is happening up here.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
That's one of the problems with doing Actually it's very internal,
you know. We try to solve that with these voiceovers.
It's a very difficult challenge.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
That's one of I think the traps of adaptations is
that a lot of the great pieces of literature are
so internal and then you go to write an actual
narrative story and you realize there's not really enough to
sustain two hours. But I think, like what I what
I loved about Also the New Dune is a lot
of people then went back and watched your Dude.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah they both exist now, Yeah, similar.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
And they're so different. And also even just with like
CGI now and how huge it is and like so
much your film was so practical, which is I think
magical and it's own way, Like I think that they're
so Yeah. I love seeing all the different interpretations.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
That's sweet. Yeah. Different different yea different interpretation and different
level of sophistication in terms of the process. Yeah, tell
me about this.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, speaking of adaptation, I am doing an adaptation of
The Shards, which was like doing a book that I
read when it came out and was obsessed with. It's
Brett Easton Ellis, who I'm such a fan of. I've
read everything he's done, and the book came out like
four or five years ago, and I was obsessed with it,
(38:35):
and I just it's also very la I grew up here,
and it talks it's so specific about like I took
some pulvida doubt, you know, like, and so reading it
while being here was just really like nostalgic for me
for a place that I am. And yeah, and it's
a book that I love. And Ryan Murphy got the
rights and is adapting.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It and did he reach out to you? Did you?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
He called me? It was very kind of like the
synchronicity of it all was really sometimes things just happen
where you're like, this all worked out just as it should.
And so I read the book when it came out.
I met with Brett about something else, but we just
had a meeting, like a general meeting. We were talking
about this other thing and he was like and I
just was like, I just have to say, like I
love the Shards. I'm such a fan. And he was like,
(39:20):
oh my gosh, you you would be great in it.
And I was like, well, I don't know what you're
doing with it, but if you ever do anything with it,
I will do whatever you want. Yeah, let me audition
and he was like, okay, I'll remember that. And then
Ryan Murphy, who really gave me my first job on
American horror story called me and was like, do you
know this book The Shards? And I was like yes,
and I was like, I've actually met from where like
(39:42):
years ago, and we talked about it and he was like, well,
I was talking to Brett about it. I'm going to
get the IP and we both brought your name up
at the same time. And it was like, this really incredible.
I'm like honored that they thought of me. I didn't
when I was reading it, like, I just was like,
I want to be in this world. Even though it's
full horrible, horrific, you know, serial killers. I was so
(40:04):
drawn to it. It's like one of those books. What's
been so touching to me is when they announced that
they were adopting it, how many people reached out and
were like, I love this book. Even people that I
that I don't necessarily think consider themselves readers or bookworms
found that book and really like just consumed it. So
I think that book kind of like hooks you and
(40:25):
just swallows you in a good way.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I know you like Shakespeare. I like Shakespeare. Yes, I
have I have an idea of something that we can
do together that should be a lot of fun. So
stay tuned. We're going to have a little Shakespeare fest here,
Shakespeare festival, okay, you and me?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to get found out.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Oh gosh, here we go. So this is a little
segment we came up with called the I Roast Shakespeare's
best insults. Yeah, so go ahead.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I don't want to insult you your scroll.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Oh once I hit you with my first one, you're
going to want to insult me. Oh okay, here we go.
There's no more faith in thee than in a stewed prune.
Oh go ahead, do your.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Best out of my sight? Thou dost infect mine eyes?
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Mean? I thought you were a nice person.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Oh it's getting they actually get more evil.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
You are as a candle, the better burnt out. Oh
that hurt.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
If I cry, you can cut it out. More of
your conversation would infect my brain. You're supposed to.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Be no, because I agree. Here is the babe as
loathsome as a toad.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
I think my ex one said that to me. The
tartness of his face sours ripe grapes.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
That hurts. It's not true, wine maker. Your brain is
as dry as the remainder biscuit after voyage. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Comments section of my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
This is this is Shakespeare on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Wouldn't it be nice if the haters had to comment
in Shakespeare?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We should encourage them. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I am sick when I do look on.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
The sometimes simple as the best.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
It's sometimes it's about a dry reading.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Oh, thou art a boil, a plague sores?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Really mean thou lump on foul deformity.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
No one's ever called me lump lump.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
No one ever called me boil.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Thank you for you are very skilled in the art
of insult throwing.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Thank you. I think we should do a revival of
Romeo and Julia.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Oh, I think that's a great idea. I know that
play well. Okay. I can't thank you enough for being
my guest here on the show. What are we even doing?
And especially after that last skit? What?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
What are.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Dressed like?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
This?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Your Shakespeare is unparalleled perfection. May you one day do Juliette?
I think that would be really wonderful.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I'm going for nurse, but we'll see, We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
The character actor. Anyway, it's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
I enjoyed a conversation, So we'll catch up soon.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
I'll see you whenever Charlie xx is back on tour.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yes, all right, back to the concert. I love it.
And so where we're going to find you next?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
That's my next thing.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Okay, I'm very excited.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Palm Rail season two. Okay with Carol Burnette and Laura.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
And Laura and Laura. I think I should come visit. Please,
it would be fun.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Please.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Carol Burnett has always been I've never met her, but
I grew up with her comedy. She and timk Way,
they're the in Harvey Korman just really do it for me.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
And it still holds up. I have to say, yeah,
it really, it really is still so funny.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
It's a great show.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah all right, Well thanks for having Thank you so much.
Lily.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Every great actor starts out as a treat. When I'm
not watching your video as a hot dog or dancing
to Charlie XCX, I'm reading a book.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Well when you were, did you think, oh my mom, no.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's about me. And I chose to do with my
cement and I traumatized a bunch of six year olds
frowning yours.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I don't know why I got you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I was like, you've never read Room. Though you're supposed
to be crying out, I don't know if you're laughing
at this. And then there were other times where it
was like stand and do nothing, and then I was like,
I'm bored. At this point, They're like, oh God, just
tell us what we can watch it. But from my mom,
I knew it was a big compliment. This is like
the comments section of my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Ladies and gentlemen today. KaiA Gerber is with US, actress, model,
and self proclaimed bookworm. Yes, you talk about that because
I am not well read and you.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I find that very hard to believe.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I don't have much time. But you on a journey.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
When you left school, you left high school, right, you
decided you know what I'm going to go and I'm
going to learn.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
As much as I can.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Everything is, it's perfect. But I have to ask you
this question first. So do you have a core memory
thinking back about inside out right, a core memory of
when you realize, oh, this is what I want to do.
You do a lot of things, So what in particular
the first thing that was like I want to do this,
I want to be this. Was there a moment or
(01:29):
a yeah you remember? Okay?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I think in terms of literature, I my brother is
two years older, and he was covering of Mice and
Men for his class, okay, and I was probably far
too young to be reading it, but I saw that
my mom was reading it with him, and I was
really interested, so I started reading it with them. And
then when it came to do our book reports, I
(01:54):
think I was probably in second grade and you could
choose whichever book, and a lot of people were doing
like you know, Nancy Drew and like the box Car
children and stuff, and I chose to do with Mice
Men and I traumatized a bunch of you know, six
year olds and my lord, but that I think that
was really the thing that showed me that I really
loved easy sort of gateway into literature.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, heavy themes, heavy themes.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Did you graduate school?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I did so. I went, Yeah, graduate to high school,
and then I went to the University of Washington in Seattle,
and I was on the five year plan. I started
with a love of acting, but but didn't feel like
that was something I should study. You know, I needed
to go to college and to study get a career.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah. Is anyone in your family artists other than you?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Well, my mom liked the community theater and she could
play the piano by my dad was also Yeah, she
was one of those sit down and she could play anything.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I know, I'm so jealous of people.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I am too. I studied piano, can't play a thing.
But she was the one who encouraged me in the arts.
So tried school. I actually left school briefly to go
back home, and I worked in a factory doing something horrible,
and then I had a summer stock experience and then
I was like, I think this is what I should do.
(03:16):
I think I'm better at this than I am at
anything else that I'm doing. Yeah, that's how I stepped
into the world. You are now fully engaged in the world.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Which is how we met I know, Yeah, I was similar,
where like I did a lot of community theater and
was always in school plays and things like that.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You were the second Tree, We're too good research. That
popped out to me.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That was my first role.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Really, Yes, I also were a tree?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You were?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And what Yeah, Wiley and the Hairy Man. Yeah, children's theater.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Every great actor starts out as a tree.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I mean you have to. It's crucial, right, I mean,
what is it about a tree that I think is
so critical? What did you learn is playing a tree?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
What I learned about being Tree three number two specifically,
was you still have to go to all the rehearsals.
You know, It's not like, oh, you're the tree, so
you get off easy. And I think this is true
for pretty much every acting job I've had, no matter
how big the part is, the commitment is pretty much
the same, and you know, and if you love it,
you want to bring all of yourself to it. So
(04:19):
I think being Tree number two, they actually this is
the part of the story I didn't tell and people
don't know, but I got cast as Tree number two, right,
and I was so committed and I showed up early
to every rehearsal and I knew everyone's line is not
just my one line, and they felt bad for me,
I think because they saw how committed I was amongst
all these other eight year olds who didn't really care.
(04:39):
And they then gave me the role of Anti M
like three months into rehearsal because they were like, this
poor girl is really showing up.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So I got to do a couple performances as Antim.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I would have been happy just to get to be
three number one.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I know, well that was what I was going. But
then when I got Auntim, I was like, it's over.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't know if I see you as Auntie M.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
But yeah, it was definitely a reach. It was a
reach of a role. But I am a character actor.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yes you are. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I once had someone tell me that I was a
character actor stuck in a leading actress's body. That's funny,
which is funny and kind of maybe, but.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I think it's true because you have a sense of
humor and you're fearless, thank you, you know, And I
think that's a big part of being a character actor,
and you want to take You're more interested in creating
the person, yeah, as opposed to playing yourself. A reversion
of yourself exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, do you think that you're a character actor?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, I think because I think leading actor's body. I
have a look and everything, but I've never felt comfortable
in that role, you know, as a leading guy. I'm like,
I'm always I wanted to want some different. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I also sometimes find that the leads are kind of
the most boring roles. Sometimes they can be where that's
like the sort of I guess what you'd call the
secondary characters are really the interesting ones where you get
to play and like there's maybe more room to create something.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel the same way. I think you
can be stoic, you know, as a leading man, but
I think you can be one of the eccentrics on
the outside, which.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Is Yeah, what was your first like big role.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, when I my first role ever was Noah in
the in the Church play, which of course in Noah's Ark. Yeah,
that's the one. And then but the one that really
kind of turned for me, like speaking of if it
was a core memory was I had dropped out of school,
(06:32):
as I mentioned, and then I that summer I went
to summerstock at the Flat Rock Playhouse in North Carolina,
and I found my way there through securitous. I played
the lead role in Look Homeward Angel, which is a
play they did every year there because it's Thomas Wolfe
was from Asheville and North Carolina. He wrote about that
community and it was it's his personal story, and I
played him as a young man, Eugene and then he's
(06:54):
sort of the lead of the piece. And it was
with an equity cast and from New York. And I
think I did pretty good and I really loved it,
you know, and I came away feeling, oh my god,
I think this is something I can do more than
just in high school.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, And that for.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Me was kind of like, okay, that started kind of kickstarted.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Me on the trap. Yeah. Yeah. So you were a
theater before screen Oh yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Screen Dune was my first thing.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I'd never been in front of a camera before. I'd
never done anything in front of television before. I look
at it now and I sort of laughed because I'm like,
I'm clearly clueless. Is there what I'm doing?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
But do you think because you were kind of clueless,
you were fearless or were you.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I was fearless because of my training, my training. Yeah,
I was still terrified, but I was Yeah, I had
confidence because of my training. Yeah, you know, I know
how to handle this particular character. Yeah, but that was
more of a character. Yeah, and the role in Blue
Velvet was more like closer than me.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, which is sometimes scarier.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It can be very scary. Yeah, what's been this. Have
you had something that's like really scared you that you've done.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, I mean I'm terrified all the time. But everything
I do, but.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
It doesn't show, thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That's all pretty much all I'm focusing on. It's not
showing how scared I am. But I just did a
play and it was my first one since I guess
becoming a professional actor, and I started doing theater, so
I was more comfortable doing theater. But then I had
spent so much time doing screen acting jobs and going
back to doing community theater, like I did it at
(08:26):
a little theater here that was you know, ninety nine
seats and you just there's no room to lie at
all when you're doing something like that, and so I
think I just it was terrifying, and it was all
the things that I don't do in front of people,
like cry, scream, sing, dance, like just.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
All the things very emotional for the character. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, And I was working with these three incredible, like
pretty much strictly theater actors who had done so many plays.
So I kind of felt like in over my head,
but I was so grateful for the experience because I
do think as an actor, that's like the best thing
that you can do for your tools. Like I now
go back and I'm like, how have I been working
(09:09):
this long without having had that experience, Like, it's so
nice that you got to do that and then go
on to do which is a crazy trajectory.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
It was like there was like this and then it
was like this. Yeah, I say, I didn't come from
relative obscurity. I came from complete obscurity. And then had
you know, my career has been up and down. Yeah,
you will see your journey down this road. It's fascinating
and fun and frightening and rewarding and yeah, yeah, anyway,
so this is nice to hear about a little bit
about your journey.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, it is so fun, though, I think like it's
for me because there are so many ups and downs.
I was filming a TV show here and I knew
I had to be in La and I knew I
wasn't going to be working every day, so I just
decided to do a play at the same time, which
was I don't actually recommend that to anyone who wants
to keep their mental health and will, but it was
(10:00):
really great because I had this other thing, so I
didn't feel like sometimes you can feel like when you're
working you're just giving and not it doesn't feel like,
you know, sure a full circle thing. And and I
think because I was getting the experience of you know,
like film all day and then I'd go to the
theater and do the play, I was like, oh, like,
this is where they will find me out if I'm
(10:22):
a phony.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Basically, well, you make a really good point, I think,
which is when you're working in film or television, you're
working with a group of actors and the camera is
the receptive audience, right, but there's no way to really no,
I mean, you kind of know and the director it
can be helpful or not depending on the directory your are.
The cast mates can be you know, helpful, but it's
the beauty of the theater, right, Yeah, you get immediate feedback.
(10:44):
Idiot people are there. You can tell if they're with you.
You can tell if they're not with you.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Oh yeah, It's such a gift though as an actor,
Like we had this one audience that was it was
just a school and they had come on a Sunday afternoon,
and also mattene Is it's just such a differ and
experience anyways, but it was a group of these teenage
students who were not studying drama. They just they were
all studying different things. So it was a lot of
(11:09):
their first time ever seeing live theater. And so you know,
there's the layer of like are we allowed to react,
which you know in theater you want reactions. I love
like the rowdier the audience, the better for me as
an actor. And they were completely bored the whole time.
And it was it was the greatest gift because I
(11:29):
think we I mean we all spoke about it after
they were snoring. Some of them had headphones on, some
were just eating chips, they were playing games on their phone.
But it was like we learned more in that one
performance than we did, you know, and all the others,
because you can't lie to teenagers. They will find you
out when you.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Have kids authenticities.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, and I was so grateful because I was like
I thought that joke was funny, and I now realized
that I'm not delivering it right. Like, I was so
grateful we had them halfway through and it really actually
changed and impacted the show a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, I think that authenticity is such. I mean, you know,
obviously there's a generational difference between us. Right when I
was younger, there was you were really always very conscious
or self conscious, I guess about how you presented yourself.
You had, you know, everything had to look good and
be perfect, and I still carry that with me. But
I think recently, as I've become more engaged in social media,
(12:27):
I realized that's not really important. What's important is that
you are authentic to yourself, and that's what a younger
audience is responding to or seems to be.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, do you absolutely. I mean, I think it used
to be you'd only see movie stars or people either
in magazines or in a newspaper or on a red carpet,
Like you didn't see them in their homes. You didn't
see them in their everyday life. And now with social media,
there's like this direct access to people. I think it
humanizes and kind of levels everyone in a way that
(13:00):
can be really helpful. I also think your social media
presence is incredible. It's like such a I mean, I
remember when I met you. I told you that because
I had been watching your videos and I was like,
it's so niche and specific and funny and incredible, and
like to see that it transcends generations, like you were
(13:22):
coming up with things that people might wish that they had,
the sort of I remember I asked you. I was like,
please explain to me how.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Your couplet and on behalf of all of our they
are Nora is out somewhere behind hiding behind the screen. Anyway,
this is this is, this is the brain Trust.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
It's it's remarkable work. It truly is. It's brilliant. I've
been thinking a lot about because there's so many there's
so much dichotomy on social media, where like the other
day I saw a poet and he was kind of
like a Jack Kerouac type of poet, but he was
on TikTok, And then I was like, is it a
immediately not Jack Kerouac because he's on TikTok, But then
(14:04):
I was like, maybe Jack Kerouac would have actually had
a TikTok like we don't know, and so I find
it so interesting when it like transcends these different things.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, I agree, and I also love the platform. I
just love the fact that there are there's a structure
to it, there are limits to it, and the form
that you get to play with and to be creative
within that space, I think is a challenge and I
find it fun.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
It's so and as an actor to be able to
create and release your own content is such a gift.
It's you know, like I know so many people who
are just making short films and releasing them on social
media because otherwise, as an actor, you can feel very
much at the mercy of the industry and to sort
of wait around for an opportunity that like may or
may not come. So I think it's wonderful for that
(14:50):
reason too, as you actually can get your own work
out there without waiting for other people to see the talent,
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it's one of the big changes I think in
the business. I remember back in the day when I
was starting, you would send in an audition tape. I mean,
I think people still do that, but there was no
way to really let people who are casting or directors
or anyone in the film get a sense of who
you are without releasing your own stuff, and you can
do that on social right now. It's such a it's
(15:18):
like a it's an amazing thing. Obviously, we talked about
the fact that you are incredibly well read. We started
to talk about that. Yes, that is an interesting journey
to me because there are so many books that I
know of that I'm saying, oh, I should know this,
or even that my son is now reading at school,
(15:40):
and I'm like, oh, you know, And it's just finding
the time, and you know, there is time. You have
to make the time.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
You have to make the time. But also I think
because I graduated high school early, I was sixteen, so
I'm not an.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Overachiever by any means I am.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I remever go, I was like straight a's. My school
actually came to me my junior year and they were like,
we have run out of classes for you. But legally
you have to do another year of school, so you
can either retake all the same classes or just get
basically the equivalent of a GED. So I just chose
to do that. But I think because I never I
(16:17):
didn't go to college, so I didn't have the experience
of necessarily being forced to read certain books. So I
got to choose what I was reading, which I was
very grateful for. So I moved to New York after
high school. I met this wonderful man named Jonah who
now has a library which is very fitting and he's great.
I got to like go sell books with him at
(16:38):
a book fair last week. It was that's my dream.
I was like, can I have your job? But he
was at NYU studying literature and he was sort of
assigning his book list. Yeah, okay, you take me to
the bookstore and he would just be like, read this.
So I was gaining access to books I never would
have picked up at you know mcnully Jackson had I
(16:59):
gone myself. So I started quite pretentious, I have to say,
Like I was reading Plato and Cameu and like, I remember,
my mom's a huge.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Reader, the easy ones. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I was like, you've never read Rambone. My mom was
like I did that when I was twenty. You'll get
over it one day and then you'll just read for pleasure.
But I was. I loved it because it was like
this whole new world and I got to choose what
I was reading. Yeah, and then slowy over time, I
was like, I also want to read, you know, fiction
and like gripping stories. So yeah, I think that reading
can feel really sort of scary and like untouchable. But
(17:35):
there is a book for everyone. And my favorite thing
to do is a sign reading to people based off
what I think they'll like.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh good, you're going to have to give me an assignment.
Will I started with Hardy Boys, of course.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I was actually a really voracious reader. When I was
a kid, I read everything. My parents. We didn't have
a huge library. They had like the Readers Digest, condensed books, craze.
So I read Pepion and I read all these you know,
I've just's. I just find stuff, you know, I really
wanted to read. And I had my library card. Incredible,
you have a library cards, So do library cards.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
They do, but libraries sadly are dying and I don't
want them to. And now I just like I'm constantly reading,
and I think I think as an actor, there's so
much time that you're sitting and waiting around, so there's
so much time to read, and like, there's only so
much time you can spend on social media. I try
to avoid it for the most part unless I'm finding
(18:32):
like your videos basically that actually bring you joy and
not leave you feeling worse than before we try to do. Yeah,
well that's the that's kind of hard to find now
on social media. So I think that stuff is so important.
And so when I'm not doing when I'm not watching
your video as a dog or dancing to Charlie XCX,
I'm reading a book.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Isn't she wonderful?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Gosh? That was was that where we met?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah? I think we were. We're in the elevator that
one time saw you and then but I think that
was right at that time.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
That was so fun.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And yeah, she's just a delightful human. Yeah, and I
you know, I just thought she's so talented and then
we met and she's so gracious.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I was with a large group of people and she
took time and said hello to everybody, and you know,
very kind. She didn't have to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, and she hasn't. I've known her for a long
time and she hasn't changed at all, which is I think.
I mean, of course she evolves as a person, but
like she's been working so hard for so long that
this sort of what felt like overnight sort of success
was so not that, which is I often feel like
true people like to say, oh, it was an overnight thing,
(19:39):
and the person that it happened to is like I've
been working for her, yeah, so long. And that's true
for Charlie. So I think she was really ready and
grounded and knew who she was, and it really was
about the world catching up to her, not about her
changing for the world.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And she just she handles it so
so well. And she's such a terrific performer. She comes
out with energy, Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
My gosh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Power.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
When you see her up there, You're like, I could
never approach this person. I could never I mean so strong, yeah,
so strong, commands a whole entire arenas and then is
such a person and such a wonderful, generous person to
talk to. But I also wonder like when you have
moments like that, because I'll have you know, like we
went and saw Charlie and it was like the whole
cast of overcompensating, And I wish I journaled more, remembered
(20:25):
these things more, because I'm like, that probably was a
moment in your life. Was that normal at that moment
in your life.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
For me to go No, I hadn't got to a
concert for so long. Okay, but it was really fun
to be with friends like, oh this is great. So
many and the crew he was there, and it was
just so comfortable and so and so nice. And we
got to support a friend.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I mean she's a new friend to me, but she's
a friend.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh yeah. And also I'm like, well, I have like
kids one day and be like I was at Charlie
sweat door.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
That sounds kind of like me right now. I'm like
this might be that yeah, so funny. Yeah, and my
son is like, what, Dad, what's going on. When you
were younger, did you think, oh, my mom's so cool?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
No, I still don't think she's. I mean I think
she's I think she's a really cool person. Yes, she's
a total dork nerd lady. But I will say the
older I've gotten, the more I can take kind of
a step back and see and appreciate what she's done.
And I remember watching they did this Supermodels documentary on
Apple I remember, and I watched it and I was
(21:28):
like sobbing in tears, and I called her and I
was like, I think, you know, when she's my mom,
I'm not asking her like, so, why did you decide
to do Playboy? Or what how did you do the
Pepsick marcial? Like I wasn't thinking about that stuff, and
so to actually hear her story and I was like,
I never I failed to ask her all of these things.
So I really that was like a huge moment for
(21:48):
me where I realized, especially because she didn't come from
a family in the industry at all. So I'm like,
how did you navigate? Like, I don't know what I
would do without her? So I'm now there's like so
much more curiosity. I think as I've gotten older.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I think that's normal. I thinkah, we begin to sort
of look away. You're no longer focus here on yourself,
to focus on on out in the world, and there is.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
A curiosity about your first eighteen years or.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Like, I mean there's no me. Yeah, it's about me,
you know. You know, I'm sixty six and it's still
all about me. No, I'm just willing get.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Better if you do it right, It's still it's gonna always.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
It's just interesting to me, you know, growing up with
someone obviously so successful at what she did. Yeah, that
at some point in time there will be a curiosity.
But and Randy too, just about his success and yeah
and why and the choices and you know, just as
a learning mechanism. And my wife, Desiree is so good
at talking to our son about She's a really good
(22:45):
life lesson giver. So if there's something that happens, she
will frame it for him in a way that's like
that I didn't have that experience, and she just says,
this is actually a very good thing, and they will
tell you why. He's got a great mom. Amazing, Yeah,
it's really it is good to have.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Like my mom's quite like that. She's very she's very
much like, let's let's go through it together, like this
has happened to me, let's talk about it. And my
dad is kind of more of a quiet, understanding person.
But then every once in a while, like we'll go
on a walk or something and he'll say aligned to
me and I'm like, yeah, I mean, work of genius,
(23:26):
and but it's like it's really they're they're sort of
more rare. My mom's like very much like talk into therapy,
like has always been that way, and my dad is
like quieter, but then he'll just drop a line that
like rocks my world and I'll think about it for,
you know, years.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I want to ask you a little bit about the
modeling world and as you're working through a series, if
you're working with a photographer and you're doing a series
of looks and things, and that process of telling the
story and the kind of character that you develop. I
find it fascinating that you actually it is a creative
journey and you are telling a story. I mean, and
(24:08):
you're using movement, and you're using you know, obviously light movement,
what you're wearing and everything. I would love to hear
your experience of with that from that perspective.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, it's I'm happy that you see it that way.
I think a lot of people don't see it that way,
but I always saw it that way. It's such a performance,
and I think because I had been doing theater for
so long when I started modeling, I kind of had
to view it as a performance. Otherwise I'm so uncomfortable
in front of a camera, which people wouldn't believe. But
(24:38):
like when I do red carpets or like have to
show up as myself, I don't. It's like I've never
had my picture taken before. Like I'm shaking I get
so nervous.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It's nerve wing.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So many actors who feel that way too, who are
like they get so nervous to have their picture taken.
So I, even just for myself, started developing characters so
that I was able to go stand perform in front
of a camera and not feel so shy, because I
was really shy as a kid. And you know, I
started modeling when I was like fourteen, and that's scary,
(25:08):
you of all these grown ups looking at you, and
you're like, if I do a bad job, all these
people's hard work is going to go to waste. And
I think as a model, and I feel this way
about acting to some extent, but really as a model,
like you're there to showcase everyone's art. You know, it's
like the photographer's art, the lighting, the makeup, the clothes,
our art. The hair can be art's like yeah. And
(25:32):
so for me, it was always like I don't want
to let these people down, and I want to tell
their story and like figure out the best way that
I can tell the story that everyone is here to tell.
So I always would come up with little characters and
little things that entertained me on set, and I would
rarely tell people I was doing it, but you know,
like I don't think I would have been able to
(25:52):
confidently or even walk a runway like confidently, Like that's
so not my personality. Like I walk into a room
and I'm like this, but then you have to you know,
you are going and walking a runway and you have
to look confidence. So I would come up with different
sort of character characters, which.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I think is the journey towards acting. It makes a
great sense that you would then be drawn into the
world where you're now actually creating a character for a
long longer time, longer time period, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, And the more that a photographer was like, this
is the story we're telling, this is sort of who
this person is. I would get really excited, Like whenever
I would get to a set and there was a
storyline or there was a very clear sort of idea
of the story we were telling that would get me
really excited. And then there were other times where it
was like stand and do nothing, and then I was
(26:35):
like I'm bored and I feel uncomfortable. So I appreciate
the part of it that, Yeah, I think it in
a lot of ways, like prepared me to be comfortable
and to get, you know, comfortable, also living in my
head with a character for a long time and sustaining
that and like also not sharing a lot of that
process with people, Like I'm not really the kind of
(26:56):
actor that's like, this is my preparation that I did
and this is And some people do that, and I
appreciate when they do because I like hearing how other
people do it, but I don't know how to talk
about it really like what happens in my mind. And
so I think I got comfortable doing that from modeling
because I would just to entertain myself, like create entire
people and then go be them, and oftentimes people wouldn't know,
(27:17):
they would just think I was being myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
In life, Yeah, I also think an editor a good
editor on a shoot, Yeah, it's can be incredibly helpful.
I just sort of tell the story to help tell the.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Story, absolutely. I think I'm also curious how you feel
about this because it used to be all film, and
so I felt like there was so much and I've
shot a lot on film as well, there's so much
attention on you as the subject was on film and
they're not obsessing over little things. And now with digital,
everyone's looking at a computer screen, and so you're kind
(27:50):
of like up there by yourself a lot of the time,
and they're looking at you, but they're not really looking
at you. They're looking at the clothes or the hair
or whatever. So I always found that interesting where everyone
was like, I'm standing up there alone and everyone's like
over there looking at the computer screen.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You're right, it has changed. When I first started, it
was film and there was no video village, you know,
was away looking at something. And true when I started
early with taking photographs for certain things, there was no
kind of trying to look at what was already filmed
and shot. It was really about if I felt like
there was, and I still is, the energy of capturing
(28:25):
something special through the lens, which is a communication between you,
the camera and the photographer to yeah. And now it's
kind of been I don't know, it's been sort of
weak in somehow. And similar with film I remember working
with when we shot Blue Velvet with David there was
no even no monitor. He would sit right in front
(28:48):
of the camera, usually something in the ball or right
there next to it, and he was watching exactly as
close to what the lens was seeing as as the operator,
you know, and I think so he was feeling it
like a photographer would feel it. That's right, you know,
he knows you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
There was like it was an instinct thing.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah. Do you have someone that you've worked with a
couple of times or someone that you would consider maybe
like a mentor or a partner.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Or I mean I have I've never worked with the
same director twice, but I've I've worked with Rachel Sennett,
oh yeah, a bit. And I and my first film,
my first film that anyone saw, was Bottoms. So I
really felt like her and Emma Seligman, our director, and
(29:37):
iodew were like especially in comedy, because I never thought
I would ever be in a comedy. They were like
they felt I just learned so much and they weren't like,
let me take you under my wing. But I just
watched them and learned so much from them. And then
I've I've been on this TV show, Palm Royal. We
just did a second season, and Kristen Wigg has been
(29:58):
like just dream of a mentor, especially in comedy.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Oh, I'm so happy to hear.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
She is just like the loveliest you know, exceeds all
expectations and uh, and I just get to watch her
work every day, and that's I'm such a sponge, Like
I just sit and kind of watch. A lot of
people are like, are you okay, and I'm like, no,
I'm just I'm just processing information, learning, And I think,
especially early on in your career, it's wise to just
kind of like observe as much as you can.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
There's so much you can learn. I still learn working
with different actors. Actors and actress is just kind of
the process. And that's one of the things I love
just watching someone's process. Yeah, sometimes it's out of curiosity.
Sometimes it's out of oh I really like that, or
sometimes get it yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Or never do that. Sometimes it's I never want to
be that person on the set. And that's just as.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Valuable, I think completely.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Like I'm so grateful to have had all ends of
the spectrum. And I'm sure as you keep working, you
just get even more and more and more. Like I
work with Carol Burnett, who who's just a legend. I
never thought I would get to work with Carol Burnett.
She's the easiest person to work with. She's so prepared,
she's so funny, she's so lovely. She's always in a
good mood. And I'm like, if anyone had any excuse
(31:14):
to be like a total diva, Carol Burnett could get
away with murder as far as I'm concerned. And she's
the loveliest So like that has been such a lesson
for me. And oftentimes the people who are really incredible
people that you look up to conduct themselves in a
really kind, lovely way on set I found.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, she's a true pro forever and she comes with
a tremendous mount of gratitude and school and I think
she you know, it's one of the things working on
a set like that. The energy of this of the space,
the creative space is so important. It's important to me,
and it needs to be a place where there is acceptance,
there's freedom, there's there's just a creative energy that flows.
(31:53):
And anytime that there's an interruption from that, and it
can come into very different types of forms. And it
hasn't happened to me that frequently it becomes not a
pleasure and not creative. It becomes work and an effort
and you just can't wait to finish.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I know, And I really I really don't subscribe to
the belief of like it needs to be a struggle
to make interesting art. And I mean, like, I really
think the best art is created in a safe place.
And one of the people that taught me that was
Laura Dern.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Like she she's great.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
She is so great about having strong creative boundaries but
also being so lovely to everyone. And I really was like, Oh,
that's where incredible work happens is when everyone feels safe. Yeah,
And I wonder how much of that was learned because,
like you, David Lynch was like one of her big mentors.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, he's so my first you think with David, and
that was exactly the environment that he created was one
of safety. I went on and to work with other
directors where that was not necessarily a priority, and I
didn't really enjoy that. You know, you do what you
have to do, and you create your own space, you
know what I mean, you adapt tojust but when it
exists among the actors, and you know, David is very
(33:04):
specific about his casting, you know, you create a little family,
you know, Yeah, and then there's a and there's a
real connection and joy and love that's just just innate
in that environment. Yes, it's such a place that I
love to work from.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
It's so funny too, because like when I when I
did the play, I was like, God, this is going
to be so hard for my parents to watch. I
was playing a woman who was really suicidal, had a
lot of anxiety, and like, I'm a firm believer of like,
you don't become other people necessarily, it's just like you
dial up or down different parts of yourself. And I
was like, this is going to be really hard, especially
for my mom to watch, because I give like a
(33:44):
suicide voicemail to my mother that's really upsetting. And I
my first thing going in, I was like, how am
I going to cry every night? And then suddenly I
was like, how am I going to stop crying after
this scene?
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And on opening night my parents were there and I
was like think, I just was, you know, doing a
voicemail and I and I knew my mom was in
the audience, and I was just like, oh gosh, my
poor mother.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
And I got off stage and I was like, Okay,
She's like that was great, You're so brave. I was like,
but like, did you cry? And She's like no.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I was like She's like, well, I knew.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It wasn't you. I'm like, yeah, but you weren't moved
to tears. She was like no. But that's why it's
kind of fun to have parents who are not actors.
Is like, they're just they just think I'm insane for
doing what I do.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
But it's incredibly brave.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, which as an actor coming off stage, you don't
necessarily want to hear that was brave. But for my mom,
I knew it was a big compliment. But from anyone
else I would have been like, Okay, yeah, yeah, that
was brave.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, so interesting that you were more concerned about how
she might feel then oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And she was fine.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, I mean not a tear fell.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
She was completely fine.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
I give your mom more credit. It's like, oh yeah,
she's fine with that.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah. But they can handle it. They're pretty they can
handle it. I think at this point they're like, we
can pretty much handle anything.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah, that's a good sign. You're doing
something right.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Well. I think they are doing something right all right.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Books to film.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
They're starting to do film first and then write the
book after, which is interesting. Adapting books, especially really beloved
IP is scary because it can go south as we've learned. No,
But then there's also like incredible examples, and like, I
really think the marker of a successful adaptation is anyone
(35:40):
who hadn't read the book, watches it and then wants
to read the book. Like I think Call Me by
Your Name was a great example of that. A lot
of especially in the US, a lot of people hadn't
read that book and then went on to read the
book after the Luca Godonnino film. So I think I
think similarly about normal people, Like I had read that
book when it came out, and then I loved the adaptation,
(36:03):
and then I read it again, and a lot of
people like just watch the TV show and then read
the book. So I think that that's sort of the
for me, the marker of a successful adaptation. Yeah, have
you done any adaptations?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Well, The Dune was my first film.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
That's a scary one too, because that's like a huge
piece of IP.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
When I went to see The New Dune with Timoy
i was part of it, I was with some trepidation
because I said, how, it's going to be the only
Dune you know, and our Dune is going to be
put on the shelf, And then I watched it. I said, no, actually,
I think there's room for both of these.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
There's so different different, so different.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
And it's the same, you know, it's the same story,
but there they look different, they feel different, the energy
is different. They cover different territory than some of the
territory that we covered the books. There's so much in there.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
It's the thick book.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
It's just yeah, it's incredible, and it covers so many
possible themes and yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So that's one of the beautiful things about adaptations is
a lot of the time it's up to the filmmaker
the writer to decide what lane they want to take
and like what approach, because you can't. I think it's
very rare that a strict adaptation is successful because they're
different mediums for a reason, you know. And so many
of my favorite books are so internal and then you
(37:15):
think about, okay, this, let's adapt this, and then you're like,
but nothing actually really happens in the story. A lot
is happening up here.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
That's one of the problems with doing Actually it's very internal,
you know. We try to solve that with these voiceovers.
It's a very difficult challenge.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
That's one of I think the traps of adaptations is
that a lot of the great pieces of literature are
so internal and then you go to write an actual
narrative story and you realize there's not really enough to
sustain two hours. But I think, like what I what
I loved about Also the New Dune is a lot
of people then went back and watched your Dude.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah they both exist now, Yeah, similar.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
And they're so different. And also even just with like
CGI now and how huge it is and like so
much your film was so practical, which is I think
magical and it's own way, Like I think that they're
so Yeah. I love seeing all the different interpretations.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
That's sweet. Yeah. Different different yea different interpretation and different
level of sophistication in terms of the process. Yeah, tell
me about this.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, speaking of adaptation, I am doing an adaptation of
The Shards, which was like doing a book that I
read when it came out and was obsessed with. It's
Brett Easton Ellis, who I'm such a fan of. I've
read everything he's done, and the book came out like
four or five years ago, and I was obsessed with it,
(38:35):
and I just it's also very la I grew up here,
and it talks it's so specific about like I took
some pulvida doubt, you know, like, and so reading it
while being here was just really like nostalgic for me
for a place that I am. And yeah, and it's
a book that I love. And Ryan Murphy got the
rights and is adapting.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It and did he reach out to you? Did you?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
He called me? It was very kind of like the
synchronicity of it all was really sometimes things just happen
where you're like, this all worked out just as it should.
And so I read the book when it came out.
I met with Brett about something else, but we just
had a meeting, like a general meeting. We were talking
about this other thing and he was like and I
just was like, I just have to say, like I
love the Shards. I'm such a fan. And he was like,
(39:20):
oh my gosh, you you would be great in it.
And I was like, well, I don't know what you're
doing with it, but if you ever do anything with it,
I will do whatever you want. Yeah, let me audition
and he was like, okay, I'll remember that. And then
Ryan Murphy, who really gave me my first job on
American horror story called me and was like, do you
know this book The Shards? And I was like yes,
and I was like, I've actually met from where like
(39:42):
years ago, and we talked about it and he was like, well,
I was talking to Brett about it. I'm going to
get the IP and we both brought your name up
at the same time. And it was like, this really incredible.
I'm like honored that they thought of me. I didn't
when I was reading it, like, I just was like,
I want to be in this world. Even though it's
full horrible, horrific, you know, serial killers. I was so
(40:04):
drawn to it. It's like one of those books. What's
been so touching to me is when they announced that
they were adopting it, how many people reached out and
were like, I love this book. Even people that I
that I don't necessarily think consider themselves readers or bookworms
found that book and really like just consumed it. So
I think that book kind of like hooks you and
(40:25):
just swallows you in a good way.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I know you like Shakespeare. I like Shakespeare. Yes, I
have I have an idea of something that we can
do together that should be a lot of fun. So
stay tuned. We're going to have a little Shakespeare fest here,
Shakespeare festival, okay, you and me?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to get found out.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Oh gosh, here we go. So this is a little
segment we came up with called the I Roast Shakespeare's
best insults. Yeah, so go ahead.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I don't want to insult you your scroll.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Oh once I hit you with my first one, you're
going to want to insult me. Oh okay, here we go.
There's no more faith in thee than in a stewed prune.
Oh go ahead, do your.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Best out of my sight? Thou dost infect mine eyes?
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Mean? I thought you were a nice person.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Oh it's getting they actually get more evil.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
You are as a candle, the better burnt out. Oh
that hurt.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
If I cry, you can cut it out. More of
your conversation would infect my brain. You're supposed to.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Be no, because I agree. Here is the babe as
loathsome as a toad.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
I think my ex one said that to me. The
tartness of his face sours ripe grapes.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
That hurts. It's not true, wine maker. Your brain is
as dry as the remainder biscuit after voyage. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Comments section of my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
This is this is Shakespeare on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Wouldn't it be nice if the haters had to comment
in Shakespeare?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We should encourage them. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I am sick when I do look on.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
The sometimes simple as the best.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
It's sometimes it's about a dry reading.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Oh, thou art a boil, a plague sores?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Really mean thou lump on foul deformity.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
No one's ever called me lump lump.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
No one ever called me boil.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Thank you for you are very skilled in the art
of insult throwing.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Thank you. I think we should do a revival of
Romeo and Julia.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Oh, I think that's a great idea. I know that
play well. Okay. I can't thank you enough for being
my guest here on the show. What are we even doing?
And especially after that last skit? What?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
What are.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Dressed like?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
This?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Your Shakespeare is unparalleled perfection. May you one day do Juliette?
I think that would be really wonderful.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I'm going for nurse, but we'll see, We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
The character actor. Anyway, it's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
I enjoyed a conversation, So we'll catch up soon.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
I'll see you whenever Charlie xx is back on tour.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yes, all right, back to the concert. I love it.
And so where we're going to find you next?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
That's my next thing.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Okay, I'm very excited.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Palm Rail season two. Okay with Carol Burnette and Laura.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
And Laura and Laura. I think I should come visit. Please,
it would be fun.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Please.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Carol Burnett has always been I've never met her, but
I grew up with her comedy. She and timk Way,
they're the in Harvey Korman just really do it for me.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
And it still holds up. I have to say, yeah,
it really, it really is still so funny.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
It's a great show.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah all right, Well thanks for having Thank you so much.
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