Today, we are joined by LA Mag Writer, Lauren Conlin, to discuss her thoughts on aliens, the new Netflix Michael Jackson docuseries, the Karmelo Anthony verdict, and an influencer couple who terminated a pregnancy over Down syndrome concerns.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Everyone, welcome the Mother Notes that'th On today's episode, our
friend Lauren Conlin is here and we're going to talk
about where she was yesterday, her recent trip to crime con,
the Anthony Carmelo verdict, and influencers who are going viral
for terminating their pregnancy all that.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Actually it's actually, uh Carmelo Anthony. But you know, I mean,
oh my god, you said Anthony Carmelo.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
It's fine, Carmelo, Anthony.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
You but you know, all the comments, You'll say a
whole you'll do a whole episode and one like.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
You're right, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
So and it's crazy because I was actually thinking about
this today when I was writing up my notes, how
sometimes we talk a lot about the person that killed
the person more. I feel like with the Idaho case,
for example, Brian Coberger is more known with his name
than the actual victims are. You know, like it's just
(01:12):
like a weird association.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So I guess what I meant for Unicol was like,
whenever this happens to me and I say one thing
wrong on a recording, all of the comments are just
very focused on it's actually Carmelo Anthony, you know. And
I'm like, oh, okay, no, sorry, did you hear any
of the other podcasts?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Oh no, trust me? Like this is this is just
normal in this field. So all right, let's let's first
talk about before we get into that case, let's talk
about where what's going on with you? Like yesterday we
were actually supposed to record and you said, oh, I
have to go to DC.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So why were you there?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, so I took a day trip to DC because
there was a big press conference with former intelligence officer
David Grush, who had testified before Congress in twenty twenty
three making all types of allegations about just UFO disclosure
and wanting protections against UAP whistleblowers. And for those unfamiliar,
(02:12):
UFO is pretty much the same thing as UAP. It's
sort of evolved. Unidentified flying objects have now evolved into
unidentified aerial phenomena. So there's this presser happening in the
lawn and it was led by Grush and also James Fox,
a filmmaker who has done a ton of research on
(02:34):
aerospace and NASA and UFOs, and then Leslie Keene a
New York Times journalist who's done the same type of research.
And then Congress, the lawmakers that you have seen on
television are going viral for demanding transparency. Eric Furlinson, Rep.
Anna Luna, Tim Burchett, and then a Democrat, the only Democrat,
(02:57):
Jared Moskowitz. And so this is a bipartisan effort, and
they were calling for President Trump to completely sign off
on releasing all of the files pertaining to UAPs as
a potential, you know, national security issue. If we don't
get this, he wants President Trump to sign off on everything.
(03:19):
And I you know, it's the comments I was seeing
on my live stream, because I livestream the whole thing.
A lot of people were saying, you know, this is
a distraction, this is BS whatever. I don't. I am
at the point where I go back and forth every
day about this. I mean, this has been going on
for a very long time now. The fact that the
(03:41):
government believes UFOs are real, like we're talking like the
nineteen forties and what the government showed us in the
war dot gov slash UFO website. It got over a
billion views. People are interested. So whether or not it's
a distraction, like I am ready for it. But one
thing that I was very upset about in Nicole is
I have been focused on the missing scientists, a handful
(04:05):
of them, specifically researching, talking to family members, and when
it was announced by Caroline Levitt that the White House
and the FBI would be looking into these cases to
see if they had overlapped. Because there's only so much
I feel like as a journalist I can do to
an extent with you know, if you work at and sorry,
(04:25):
I'll wrap this up. I know I'm talking a lot,
but if you work at Wright Patterson or the Pentagon
or you know, the Casey NSC, it's really difficult to
get just it's difficult to figure out if it's not
on LinkedIn exactly what the job description is. Public affairs
won't tell you if you call, and it's like, we
(04:46):
don't know what these people were working on. We know
Monica Raza, the rocket scientist from NASA JPL, was working on,
you know, jet propulsion and burn resistant metal alloys. We
know that, but we need to know more. We need
to know more about General McCaslin and if anything overlapped.
(05:06):
And that's where I feel like the FBI and the
White house could come in. So I yelled this question
twice at the presser. I was ignored the first time.
My voice was very loud. The second time I got
a very very odd response from Tim Burchett, very odd.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And what did he say?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
He it was, you got to kind of see the
video I did put it up on Twitter. I should
send I mean, I can send it to you, and
I should because it's his whole. His stance kind of changes.
You can see his body language change. He appears to
be irked by the question, and his answer was something
along the lines of of like, of course, of cour
(05:45):
What did he say? He said, of course something is
going on. I'm just pulling up the video. And I
was like, yeah, no, I know. Of course something is
going on. He said, y'all are the media. You'll figure
it out. I'm like, oh, oh.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's any job now.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, but the thing is, like, I what do you
think I'm trying to do. I am trying to figure
it out. Of course I am. I feel like I'm
one of the few. If you type my name and
any of the missing scientists and beyond, I'm looking into them.
I'm doing videos on them again. I'm reaching up to family.
So I either he didn't understand my question, but I
think he did, or it's my opinion and understanding that
(06:26):
I don't think the FBI or the White House are
really looking into this or caring enough to provide updates
because it's been months, I mean literally.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So all the scientists have some you believe all the
scientists have some kind of ties to all this information,
like it all goes together kind of.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I don't think all of them do. No, So some
of them are are involved in national defense, some of
them are involved in aerospace. General McCaslin does have a
connection to the UAP world. I mean he Air Force
Research Lab. He oversaw again Wright Patterson, He oversaw eighty
percent of the black ops projects at the Pentagon. I mean,
(07:05):
there was a body CAMRA nine one one call recently
released and I afoided all of this information. I've got nothing.
Somehow long crime gets everything. I need to know their ways.
But a woman said she was with Neil McCaslin the
night before he went missing, and they're asking, well, what's
his security clearance like? And he's retired, but he's on
the board at Kirtland Partnerships, and she said he's got
(07:28):
a top security clearance. He's in the UFO files. I
find that to be weird. But for the rest of
the people that were named, no, I do not think
they are all connected. I think some of them are
just tragic accidents, just regular, you know, heart attacks. Melissa Cassias,
she's being painted as a scientist at Low Salamo. She
(07:51):
wasn't at all. She was an administrative assistant. I've dug
deep into that. I don't think her job has anything
to do with her death. I think it's more of
a personal thing. But still, the White House, the FBI,
you said you were looking into this. Not a weird
question for a reporter to ask for an update at
a UAP presser, that's all.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Do you think that, like what do you think since
you're kind of involved with this, Like, do you actually
think that Alliance are a thing?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, so I do. I don't think they're little quote
little green men, right. But I do think that I
go back and forth because on one hand, I think
the way that Fox News and look, I watch Fox News,
you know, I'm a contributor with Fox. I just think
the way they position all of this with Jesse Waters
and Sean Hannity, the way they clip these for the
(08:41):
Internet and do all caps. Holy crap, this guy just
said this, Terresta. It's like, no, we need, we need
more than that. We have these guys telling us it's
for shock value, for things to go viral. I got
to see it. I'm glad you saw it. But even
yesterday with Tim Burchett, something he said during his speech
I didn't love talked about saying. He said something like,
(09:02):
you know, it's not about little green men, it's about
the budgets, meaning like we're not seeing this, and I'm like, wait,
but I just saw you on Joe Rogan pretty much
talk about these things that you're seeing in the skiff,
kind of like describing I don't want to say little
green men, but shocking, you know, shocking beings here, and
all of a sudden it's about budget. So I just
(09:23):
I don't know. I don't know, Nicole. I do believe
that God created more than just humans, right, We have animals,
We have a lot of different species out there, So
I think that it is naive right to think that
we are the only ones with fingers with toes with
you know what I'm saying. I do, But again, I
(09:44):
don't think that it's I don't think we're talking Independence
Day in like a tube with litwy like like with
like you know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Know not to be so you're like around my age.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Do you remember I'll never forget When I was in
seventh grade, I went to the movies to see this
movie called Fire in the Sky and it's an alien movie.
It scared the shit out of me so bad that
I'm serious that now I just and I don't even know,
like I might watch it today and be like, how
did that scare me?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
But it was.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It was like an alien abduction thing, and it just
scared me so bad. And ever since then, I'm like,
I don't even want to know, Like, I'm fine, you.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Might need to send that to me. Fire in the Sky.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, I just remember seeing it at the theater. I
mean keep in mind that I was twelve or thirteen
years old when I saw it. It could watch it
be like you know when you look back at something
like Land of the Lost or something and you see
these dinosaurs and you're like, wait, I ever thought that
that even looked.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So my kids they get so mad at me because
I'm like, this movie was so good When I was
a kid, and then we watch it. I'm like, sorry,
it was so good at the time. I have no
clue why I got so bad.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
They're like, yeah, thanks, yeah, because we're like that's happening
with us right now, because we're like hardcore into Michael
Jackson because we've watched the movie now three times.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Wait I took I get to see it in theaters. Yeah,
to cover their eyes when he was beating Michael with
the bell.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Oh no, I wanted them to see that because I
was like, you guys, have a good life.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You need to watch this because some kids are going That.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Was, by the way, just saying I don't think that
movie is a movie. I think it's an experience. I
don't think it's necessarily the great cinematic masterpiece because sorry,
they paint Michael Jackson as being half in the bag,
like and he probably is. Well, I don't know. Did
you watch the Verdict?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeh, yes, I did you know? What though I had
I had a really.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Are your thoughts? People are gonna get mad?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
What about Michael Jackson?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, so the movie itself was it gave it may
I swear to god, I teared up like five times
during the movie because it just was very nostalgic of
what I remember Michael Jackson to be when we were kids, right,
all the good part of it. And I am aware
I saw Finding Neverland and I like, and now this
new one. And yet like I think that he definitely
(12:03):
there's a part of me that's just like he had
a very abnormal life and I think that he has
this huge arrested development, like just as a child as
it is, right, like he really thought that he was
equal to these children.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, I feel this well like.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
He wasn't a regular fifty year old man.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
No, no, And I well I'll tell you first, just
remind me, see, I never saw Finding Neverland? Is this
when Wade Robson came out and said I lied on
the stand? Is that the doc that he said that
no one is that?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I think I'm not.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I think that was more about the the family that
might have been living in New Jersey. And remember he
was like our visio, yeah, and he was like yeah,
And when I saw that, like, I don't know, like
a kid can make up whatever, because the thing is
is that like, don't put yourself in that situation that
you're sleeping in a bed with a child and they
could make it up or not, but I mean him
(13:01):
sending these faxes to the kids and just like these
certain behaviors, and that interview obviously when he's just like
when he pulled that kid out, that was so bizarre.
(13:21):
This week's episodes are brought to you by the Grocer,
and for this week's high profile death dissection, we talked
about Kimberly Chippewa. You might remember she was the twelve
year old girl that was involved in a bullying incident
at school a few months ago and was involved in
a fight. She was trying to actually stand up for
(13:42):
her sister and was hit on the head with a
metal water bottle and she died a.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Few days later.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So we talked about how there was a homicide investigation underway,
and then this shocking information came out within the past
couple of weeks that the autopsy was ruled a natural death.
So we really go through that whole case in the
grossroom and try to figure out how exactly the medical
examiner rules a case where there was a girl who
(14:10):
had a traumatic blunt force injury and somehow her death
was ruled a natural manner of death. And then so
we go through like what we're going to look through
at the autopsy, and honestly, after doing the whole entire post,
I agree with the medical examiner, So you might want
(14:31):
to read that and check out why I say that.
And then we have a couple really disturbing videos in
the gross Room. One involves a snake that ate a person,
and this week's Forensic Friday was on a five thousand
year old autopsy and how that information is being used
to help solve cold cases today. We also had a
(14:54):
couple interesting requests from members in the gross room this week,
going over some scenes that happened in pulp fiction and
if they could be medically real, if they're fiction, or
if they're things that could actually happen. So we go
through those scenes in the movie and then talk about
exactly what or what would not happen in real life.
(15:16):
Head over to the grossroom dot com.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Now, he but it's kind of like the the the director,
I'm blanking on his name.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
He kind of said like Michael was proud. He wanted
to show this is the kid that I helped. He
had cancer and now he's in remission. I'm so proud.
But going back to what you said, I think, and
you know, people are. They get very upset about the
Michael Jackson thing. And I actually get it because I
found myself and you and I are very educated in
(15:53):
this world, you more so than I am, especially when
it comes to I just feel like every even you know,
even the non medical stuff, even like the psych stuff
you were just so good about. I found myself watching
The Verdict on Netflix, the three part series, hearing certain
things about what he would do to kids or what
kids said, and in my brain, I was making excuses
(16:16):
for him, the most insane things that are so obvious
that a kid would say. Well, he had me watch
this with him, and we circled the naked you know,
and I'm like, well maybe, And then I was like, Lauren,
snap out of it. Oh, I was making excuses for
him because I love him so much, or I do
(16:36):
you know what I'm saying. And then I realized. I
realized that the prosecution put on a horrible, horrible case
for him. Horrible, Okay, the defense put on a phenomenal case.
They impeached so many witnesses, they created so much reasonable doubt,
and guys, you have to watch this and you have
(16:58):
to get the transcripts to really understand and that you
can believe some of the kids that went on the
stand and said he touched me. He did this because
I did. But you can't ignore the defense impeaching. The
employee that said she saw Michael Jackson's hand down mcaulay
Culkin's pants. She gets thirty grand from hard copy, but
she also got fired. McAuley Culkin, the biggest celebrity, comes
(17:21):
on the stand right and says he never did that.
You can't ignore that. That's putting more doubt in their heads. So,
in my opinion, watching that made me realize that this
is I love Michael Jackson so much, I didn't want
to believe it. And I'm a reasonable person where I
change my mind, you can. I'm not someone who's so
(17:42):
set in my belief. If you tell me Karen reads
guilty and then I see something that says she's not guilty,
you know, vice whatever, I'm like, I'll change my mind.
And that's I was just realized. I was so sick.
I was like, oh my god, he did this, but
he was found not guilty. And he also is not
a regular person.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, And I think that's the hardest part of it.
Because when I mean he he was around that time,
like the same age as as us and my like
forty to fifty year old, right, he's he I don't know,
Like even though he's he's a man in front of you,
it's like the same way you look at him and
you're like, you don't think that he's a black person, right,
It's just like you.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Don't think he's an adult either. It's no, I don't
know what he is exactly. I don't know him.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And then when his dad his dad like this is
just another black man, I'm like, I'm like, well, I
guess if we're gonna be technical, sure, but it's like
we're not. This is you can't blame this on Rea,
Like when that I did. Now, I'm like, this is
not a racial thing, Like this is a very big deal.
And the other thing is like you and I I
feel like are cut from a similar cloth where if
(18:47):
we hear something about a you know, an edo, were
like hang them like death in the town square, like
let them let them like you touch a child and
you wreck a child's conf it into their you know
that to me is unforgivable. And so the fact that
I was watching this and I was offering so much
grace to Michael Jackson because I was such a fan
(19:10):
of him. I was. It was just confusing. And then
and then hearing the impeached testimony about you know, other
kids getting called out for lying, I'm just like, I
don't know, I don't understand this. I just don't. It's
very troublesome, very trouble.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Their parents were like really disgusting too.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
That I said to my kids too, I said, what
would you guys do if an adult said can you can?
And I said sure. They were like, we would we
would never like what, we would be so scared we
would be.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And I know, I know, like my one of my
kids was like, well, why is the one kid not
talking to his mom anymore? And I was like, listen,
I was like, you're the same as that age. If
I just let you go sleep in some man's bed
and he ended up assaulting you, wouldn't you be like, oh,
she didn't protect me?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Like hello, yesh, yes suh.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
And And you know, they kind of indicated there was
a payoff there for these parents, which is growth They
essentially sold their children, so to speak. And I don't
mean it in a you know, I just mean, like
they receive benefits for loaning their kids out to sleep
in his bed, whether or not anything happened with each
(20:20):
kid in the bed. I can't speak to that, but
I would just think as an adult now thinking back
about that stuff, that might not sit right with me.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You know what's really interesting though, that I just thought
of I don't know why I just thought of this,
but when when you're watching that show, it's at the
very end of it said that he died four years
after this, right, and I'm like, oh my god, if
he actually went to jail for this, he would still
be alive.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Oh yeah, because he wouldn't Oh see, I don't know
about that either, though. I think he was such a
drama queen. Do you think he could have lasted through
a detox like that? His body was so weak and
like just so, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I mean, well, I don't know, Like at his autopsy,
I think that his if he was in jail and
didn't have a person giving him propofall and all this stuff,
and he I mean, he would be at least medically
regulated in jail, he'd probably get I don't know. I
obviously I feel like they would keep him isolated, but
like as far as his health goes, like his organs
(21:23):
at autopsy were very normal and good.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Like his heart looked good, it were.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, like his lungs he had some kind of like
chronic lung damage, but it was nothing that would have
killed him.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
He could have had some problems.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
But if he was on a good diet and was
exercising and wasn't on all those crazy drugs, I feel
like he would one hundred percent still be alive. I mean,
his parents are still alive, you know what I mean,
it's a point.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
No, you're so right.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
His family's mom is at least anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Ye, yeah, his mom is alive. Joe's dadd Yeah, yeah,
I think. But he just died like he did right recently. Yeah,
hold on, I had to look that up Joe Jackson
when I.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Feel like it was within the past.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, he died at eighty nine, so not he had
pancreatic cancer. He died in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, so like they he you know, he just I
really really believe that that the only reason. I mean,
I don't think that he would be mentally well at all.
I mean he would if he actually went to prison
for that I'm sure he'd still have a huge fan base.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Honestly, I don't think that anybody.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
But if you think about it, and you know, we
can we can kind of pivot in a second. But
it's like people will stand outside the courtroom, and this
goes for Carmelo Anthony as well Michael Jackson. It's like
they stand outside the courtroom holding signs when they don't
even know what's being said inside the courtroom. They've already
made up their mind based on whatever they want to say,
(22:52):
you know. For Carmelo Anthony, I do believe it was
based on race, that a lot of people made up
their mind that he didn't deserve to be there with
my Jackson. It was his fame. That's that's how I feel.
And if you feel differently about Carmelo Anthony, I know
this is a very touchy topic and everybody will probably
come at me whatever, but that's fine. I just feel
(23:13):
that people were protesting for him because of the color
of his skin, and they felt like this was an
injustice somehow, you know, for the color of his skin.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And I understand that in certain cases. This the Carmelo
Anthony one is I don't see it that way. I mean, whatever,
people are incited to have their opinion. But let's talk
about that a little bit, because I don't know that
we have ever talked. We might have talked about it
in the grocery, but I'm not sure we talked about
it on this show. But why don't you just give
(23:43):
like a quick rundown of what went down with that case.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, So this is Colin County, Texas, April twenty twenty five,
nine thirty in the morning. There's a track meet. It's
at a Frisco high school track meet. But Austin Metcalf
and his twin brother they go to Memorial Carmelo. Anthony
goes to a high school I believe it's called Centennial.
And you know there's this tent culture you go to
(24:08):
track meet's, there's the four pole pronged tents. You know,
they're underneath them. They kind of treat these as locker room.
So and by the way, keep in mind, I was
not in the courtroom for this. And this is I
think the issue with this case where anytime someone talks
about this Nicole, I've talked about it on multiple videos.
I've gotten my reporting from Cody Thomas at Court TV
(24:30):
and also from a local Texas news station CBS, where
I look at the updates hour by hour and I
still get told you have wrong information. Well, because they're
watching another TikToker or they're watching someone else. This is
my information that I got from two legitimate sources that
I trust, and Cody personally, like we text about it,
(24:51):
and he's been in the courtroom. So anyway, it's been argued.
You know, Carmelo ducked under this tent for to get
out of the rain. It was a rainy morning, and
this tent did not belong to his team. It was
not his quote locker room. It belonged to Austin Metcalf
and their memorial team and his.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Team didn't have a tent or something because they didn't.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I don't know exactly what the deal was with that
about his team not having a tent, but there he
was sitting with this guy Eddie, and there was a
lot of talk about this guy Eddie, and Eddie was
a friend of Carmelo's family. He either dated someone Carmelo
knew in the family or just you know, knew of
him through whatever. I don't know. So you know, he's
(25:39):
sitting with Eddie and they basically say, wait, like you
got to get up, you know, you got to leave.
Witnesses say he was asked to leave, and I'll tell
you about Eddie. But witnesses say he was asked to
leave up to fifteen times. And this is where it
starts to sort of get a little hairy. I mean,
it was it was stated that Austin kind of either
(26:00):
shoved him or pushed him, but I think the consensus
here is it wasn't deadly forced that he used when
he just said get out of here. Also, a witness
testified that Austin said I'm not going to fight you man,
which completely completely diminishes the self defense theory that Carmelo
Anthony was using. I mean, if anything, I think at
(26:22):
the beginning he could have said maybe imperfect self defense,
which is like the Menendez brothers who say, hey, I
did it. I got to take some kind of culpability
for this and I'm sorry, but I did it because
of Xyz. He didn't even do that his lawyers, and
I don't actually you know this defense. I blame on
his attorneys, like they were having him take no culpability,
(26:42):
which is insane. So I guess he had his hand
in this bag and he said, you know, walk touch
me and see what happens type of thing, And upon
being pushed, he did the one. It was a three
and a half inch blade that he got him right
in the chest and he he took off running and
this area in the chest which you can probably speak to,
(27:04):
he bled out internally, and someone on the stand, one
of his coaches, his parents, Austin's parents had to leave
the room. Was so tragic because he started praying with
his twin brother. He kind of knew Austin was dying,
and he started watching the color drain from his face
and something happened where he said he knew this from
just being in the army and watching people die, where like,
(27:27):
I don't this is going to sound dumb. It's not
like a second wind or something. But they start to
breathe a little bit. But he knew that type of
shallow breathing meant he was dying, while everyone else was like, oh,
maybe he's okay, but he didn't say anything because he
didn't want to upset them. So when Austin walks out
of the tent, he kind of goes running. He runs
into another coach and that coach. Basically, he tells them
(27:48):
what happened, and he says, well, did you ever think
about like this kid could die, like your life is
going to be completely changed. You could have killed someone,
and Carmelos start crying. Reportedly, the police come, you know,
they arrest him. He admits it. He says, They say
that you know, he allegedly stabbed him, and he said,
not allegedly, I did it. He gets in the back
(28:10):
of the cop car and I can also send you this.
There's a I got the original police affidavit and he
actually asks, is he going to be okay? I mean,
so this he wasn't right, But I think the fact
is in that courtroom his defense did an incredibly terrible job.
We don't know why this guy is bringing a knife
(28:32):
to the school grounds, to a school function. I have
seen so many different reports. Well it was okay that
he brought this, he needed it for protection. I don't know,
how do you know?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I mean, see this is I think a lot of
it has to do with culturally, like kids just thinking
that they're badasses and stuff.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
They were in.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Frisco, Texas, which was voted last year as the second
most safest city in the United States of America. They're
in the verbs, they're not in the inner city. There's
absolutely no reason that you need to be cool and
carry a weapon with you if you're not prepared to
use it or pull it out to threat. When you
take out a knife to threaten someone, it's the same
(29:12):
as a gun. Like when you point a gun at someone,
expect that you're going to murder them. Don't be like
a badass and think you're cool. And a lot of
it is cultural.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Question, Nicole, that's the question because during the pre trial
stuff and like the bond hearings whatever, apparently he had
been suspended previously for bringing a knife to school, so
there was a little bit of contention there saying, well,
should he even have been at the track meet in
the first place, And apparently the suspension was prior, so
it was fine. But like here he comes again bringing
(29:44):
the knife, and you know a lot of people say, oh,
well it's legal to okay whatever. But again, this kid, Carmelo,
he wasn't a thug, He wasn't like, he got good grades.
He obviously you know, he was into sports, He worked
two jobs. He seemed to have a future. I don't
know where this came from right, like, I'm so confused
(30:06):
at why this kid would pull I don't understand how
you're also at a track meet with lots of adults,
it's mourning. How would you pull out a knife instead
of just like dodging away? And all the kids testified
like nobody was was circling around him. And I've also
gotten some crap for saying this. I personally felt like
(30:28):
if there was going to be this big fight that
was about to ensue, that all the kids would whip
out their phones or maybe they would hear because another
girl said she heard a discussion from another tent saying
you got to leave, but she didn't come running over
with her phone or anything to say, ooh a fight.
No one else pulled out a phone. So how big
(30:48):
was this argument? Was this discussion? How much did it
escalate before he whipped out a knife? It just didn't
seem like it was escalating too much. And he wasn't thinking.
He didn't think of the console Quince's when he took
out a knife and plunged it into Austin Metcalf. He wasn't.
I just this is my problem. Where what the laws
(31:09):
in Texas? Oh? So here's something, Nicole. The jury rejected
this sudden passion plea, which is insane to me. Not
a plea, but the sudden passion. So basically, Carmelo got
thirty five years. He was sentenced to He's eligible for
parole in seventeen and a half years, but he could
have gotten capped at twenty years if the jury accepted
(31:32):
the sudden passion meaning I wasn't planning to do it,
but then he provoked me and I stabbed him. Right,
They did not even think he was provoked enough to
get yeah, So so.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Like who or any psychologists trying to like chime in
or anything to see like what was that about?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
It?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Just it does seem like really outrageous.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Even if they were in a fight, their first thought
would be like, okay, you punched the kid.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
I don't know that he was, So I think that
what the defense was trying. And again, and I apologize,
I wasn't in the courtroom, and that's why this is
so tough sometimes. But the defense was trying to show
that the Metcalf boys were towering over Carmelo. They were tall,
they were two hundred pounds plus, you know, over six
feet and Carmelo was much smaller, so that's why, you know,
(32:21):
a punch wouldn't necessarily have worked. But also like I
just leave. So but back to this guy, Eddie, I
think where the defense kind of looked good for once.
It's like they had Eddie on the stand. Obviously he
was testifying for I think it was for the prosecution,
but yeah, and basically he had kind of said, you know,
(32:42):
I was talking to Carmelo, but like I don't really
know him, like we're not really like I just kind
of know him, and so he was really distancing himself.
But then when the defense came up, they showed like
a series of pictures of Carmelo and Anthony at Carmelo
and Anthony, Carmelo and Eddie at fam functions and whatnot,
basically making this kid look like he wasn't being so truthful,
(33:06):
which all that does is sort of make the jury think, Okay,
anything he said to the prosecutor before that, do I
really want to take seriously or do I really want
to take you know, or do I want to take
it in stride because he was called out kind of
for lying. So I just feel like Carmelo Anthony what
he could do at this point, I mean, his life
(33:27):
is pretty much over. But if I were him, and
this is completely objective, because I think he belongs in jail.
I think obviously he took another kid's life and that
is unspeakable, But I do think he when he appeals,
it should be for ineffective counsel. Some of what the
lawyer was saying, from what I read, Austin Metcalf stabbed himself,
(33:48):
he moved around, so then I mean awful, awful stuff.
Or the jury apparently gasped. I mean, he just he
wasn't he wasn't good. They should have argued, they should
have basically maybe even pled manslaughter. Okay, see just to
see if the prosecution could because just self defense. With
the video they had, it was grainy, it wasn't it
(34:10):
was just bad. It was bad.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So yeah, I was I was just thinking that too,
Like I mean, maybe I've never been a defense lawyer obviously,
but didn't he have a lawyer prior to that that
ended up dropping them or something like that. There was
like you just look at it and say, maybe the
evidence was so strong that they said, all right, well
(34:32):
let's just like throw this and see if it sticks.
Because like we can't do anything. He's going away regardless.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
What's confusing to me. I think is he and I
don't know all the details about this, and this is
I cannot independently verify. But I know that he has
and the GoFundMe is still open. Okay, six figures plus? Well,
I can, I can pull it up right now.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, I think it was three at this point.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It was Oh wait, is that how much it was? No?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Hold on, Oh, it's gone pretty high, I believe.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Hold on, let me see.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I know it was at like six hundred thousand, but
I think it's still open and it's still getting money.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Because okay, help carmelo, let's see. Oh whoa, Oh no, no,
the goal is a million. They're at six hundred and
thirty three thousand dollars right now, basically so. But what
it says is the purpose of the fund. They're saying
that the purpose of the fund is his legal defense. Okay,
(35:37):
And there's rumors going around that he used a public
defender and his mom bought them a house and like
a gated community or something. But his lawyer, his name
is Mike. I just had his name, Mike Bundy. I
think it is Mike Howard. Sorry, Mike Howard. That's a lawyer.
(36:12):
His lawyer is not a public defender. He used to
be a public defender and he used to work in
legal aid, but now he has a private practice, so
that seems to be a rumor that he spent they
spent all the money on a house.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I think the news had said I believe it was
CBS or something said that that was just a rumor
that it was that was going.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
I mean, you never could trust because these stories go.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Viral on that like a simple Google will tell you
his lawyer's not a public I just don't get people
where I'm like, google it. His lawyer's not a public
defender like he's he used to be. But that being said,
he sucked and I do believe that they did not
buy the best money could buy because you can get
any attorney in the nation to you know, go to
(36:58):
a judge and or attorney. Know, someone can practice in
Texas even though they live in New York. You can
do that. You could have done better, and they didn't.
They There is proof that they did buy some other
things with this money, but not they didn't do that
with a public defender but either way he got yeah,
(37:18):
and when they read the verdict, apparently he was shaking
and it was like convulsing, and his lawyer Askedes Carmelo
asked that they could have a minute for him to
compose himself, and the judge is like, nope, things move
differently now, like now you're in the custody of the sheriff.
Like it was like boom, like your life is about
to change.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Like, well, it does scare me because I think that
some people don't have as much respect for like life
in general. Like I just don't really think that he
understands and you have to do You do have to
take into consideration that he's seventeen years old too, so
he does know right from wrong totally, but like their
(38:00):
brains are still not one hundred percent formed.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
So yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You could say, well, my seventeen year old wouldn't do that,
Like I understand that, but I feel like life in
prison would have been a little bit harsh, honestly, just
because he was seventeen when it happened.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
But I'm I'm actually surprised that he got thirty five years.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
You're saying that's a lot or no, I just was.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I was just surprised, like I that he got that
much just because well.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
But again I go back to this and I said,
I had a discussion with with Geragos, Mark Geragos, who's
a criminal defense attorney. We put out a podcast the
other day. I said, you know, I was surprised this
wasn't a manslaughter charge, but I didn't exactly know the
I know them now in Texas it's it's capital murder, murder,
(38:55):
and then it's manslaughter. So this did tech technically meet
the elements of rehtorum right, Sorry, I'm saying this for
your algorithm. For you too, I realize, so technically it
did in my experience, and I had to go back
and read the laws because you it can be premeditated
within seconds before you before you do it. Because my
(39:18):
whole thing was like, well, wait, he didn't show up
to the track meet. He didn't even know who Austin
Metcalf was. You know what I mean, he didn't know.
It's not like he was planning to kill him the
night before. It wasn't like that. But it's like, why
did you bring a knife and why did you take
it out? What was your purpose? What was the purpose?
I just it goes back to what you said, I
(39:39):
don't think he thought about the consequences and he took
a life because of it. A young boy lost his life.
His family will never be the same, his brother will
I mean a whole A family is changed forever. And
Carmelo Anthony, your family is changed forever because of what
you did and your decision. So I just I hate
this case. I hate it.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
And if it Austin Metcalfe would have been another kid
in a couple months down the road. Like if he
was that spastic and impulsive pulling it out like that,
it was going to happen in another situation because because
people get in the art house.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
What was going on, they described. You know, I wish
we had insight from his friends and you know what else, Nicole,
I wish he took the stand. He should have taken
the stand in his own defense because I think that
if he did, people could see maybe what maybe the
police officer saw this kid crying saying I didn't mean to.
Maybe that could have gotten him sudden passion. But from
(40:37):
what I understand from Cody Thomas, he was stoic. He
did not react. He didn't like and that also doesn't
look great to a jury, you gotta be sorry. And
if he didn't look sorry, that's also messed up. Then
I don't know what if you're you know, if you're
only sorry that you are going to jail, that's another
thing too, Right is he only crying and sorry? Because yeah, all.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Right, Like so let's move on to another case about
people who are going online being really sorry? What this
case with the I I like hate these people. I
listen when we're when I'm online and stuff, I see
a lot of things that bother me and I don't comment.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
And when I.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Saw this case, I just was like, I can't keep
my mouth shut about this because this is so gross.
So let's talk about these people, Mick, Jugger, Nuggets, What
the hell are their names?
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I never even heard.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Of them even know who they were. Nicle, I was like,
who's Jesse Ridgeway? I don't even know who that is?
Like how many followers?
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Does he have a lot?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
I feel like on YouTube or something? I feel like
he had like a lot. Wasn't it like a couple
million or something?
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Let me see hold on?
Speaker 3 (41:49):
And I'm just like, well, somebody's heard of him.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I did not even want to give him like the
benefit of like the make jugger nuggets, Like what does
that even mean?
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
See, it's.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
It's more than both of us combine, Lauren, you must
say some kind of magic.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I don't. And it's him. I'm sorry, it's him, just
like some people want they want you just like crying
like some kind of I just hate him.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Why do he just he just sucks?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
So I guess his Their whole entire thing is like
they make a lot of videos for for shock click things,
which I guess, which is why a lot of people
are saying, is it possible that this whole thing isn't
even real?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
I don't know which would be worse. I really don't mean.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I mean, do you mean, like, okay, do you mean
the pregnancy was never real? Or she's not actually aborting?
Speaker 3 (42:52):
No, they just there's people.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
So let's first talk about because I haven't talked about
that on the show yet. So I guess in what
was it happens March in twenty twenty six that she
found out that she was pregnant. They this is their
first baby, they just recently got married, and and then
so then they did some video that they were reading
some genetic testing that.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Oh well wait, but go back to the point where
like they not only do they announce the pregnancy, Nicole,
they show ultrasound videos and they say, look at the
little guy moving, and we're talking like, Nicole, we're talking
like seventeen weeks and stuff like you're saying like look
at him, like, look at the little guy. Look at this.
You know it's it's a human. We can see the baby,
(43:37):
the baby. Let's just say that, we can see the
fetus the baby. It looks more and more like a
baby every day.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
So Okay, So this is what I'm confused about the
timeline of it, just because I, you know, I fairly
recently went through two pregnancies and stuff. So I guess
they do another video and now they're reading live the
results they got from was it from a self free
DNA test? Like That's what I'm confused about, because you
(44:03):
had that done right, Like first you get the blood working.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Thenoble screening like in the remember they take the fluid
from the neck at three at twelve weeks. That's also
what I was confused because.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Well, for like first they're going to do a screening
with a blood test, right, which I'm sure you had done,
and did you find out the sex through the blood
test or okay? So but when did you get those
results back? Because I swear to god, I was like
nine weeks when I got those results back.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Same I got eight weeks, I got okay.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
So that's a self free DNA test, and that's going
to be a screening that says like you have an
increased risk of the feet as possibly having downs right
or any other genetic things. Right at that point, the
only way to confirm that is to do a test
called an amniocentesis or a choreonic Villai sampling, So they
take a biapsy of the choreonic villies like the immature
(44:52):
placental tissue or from the fluid around, depending on how
far along you are with that. So I've really what
they were actually reading. I'm just kind of like, why
are you reading this at seventeen weeks? This is like
something that you already should have known about for a while.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
So the one thing that I will say is, I
think from what I recall at twelve weeks, you go
into the hospital and you do the nucle screening where
they do measure the fluid.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
They measure the next Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
And if it's a certain whatever over a certain amount
of inches, they will say, Okay, you know, the baby
has xyz percent of a change. Like they told me
my son, they said, uh, Paisley was fine. They're like,
she's good. But then with MJ. They basically said he
has a point oooo something percent chance of having down syndrome.
(45:45):
I'm like, okay, so all right, Like it was just
more like a okay, thanks for telling me type of thing.
If there was more of a percentage more of a concern,
they would offer that the amniotic thing, which or getting
the fluid from the amniotics, but that also could harm
your baby. They warn you, They say, yeah, you know
(46:06):
there's a chance that this could you know, kill your baby,
So you either take the chance of just you know,
not knowing and if it happens, it happens, or just whatever.
So it sounds like they decided to do that a
little bit later. Do you think like maybe they got
this information at twelve or thirteen weeks. The next time
(46:27):
they could come in was like maybe two weeks from there,
and then they I don't know, That's what I was
thinking about the whole But the.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Whole thing's weird.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
And also like, you know, why why are you reading
your your your test live? And then like the crying,
it's so it's just gross and completely unnecessary. So they're
they're live on camera and they're reading that their baby
has down syndrome. Try so many twenty one right, it
(46:54):
has extra copy of twenty one chromosome, so yes, and
they're hysterically crying and like, you know, just like all this,
which is just like I feel like That's why I
was more annoyed with it, because I'm just like, these
are private. There has to be some private moments that
people have between themselves, and this was not one that
needed to be shared even a little bit.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Nope, and not even not even a little bit. I mean,
but it's the aftermath so to day that is disgusting enough.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
But yeah, so I guess so I'm thinking, like, I
guess maybe at some point they decided that they were
going to go through with it, and then they decided
that they they weren't.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
I guess because the I mean, let me, I would
like to just quickly fact check this since hold on
which basically how far along she was exactly, because I
have seen different reports. I've seen four months, I've seen
five months. I would like to see.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Because I think that the reports were saying it was
she was over twenty one weeks. I kept saying, and
I'm like, well, what's over twenty one weeks?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Like forty weeks? Is also over twenty one?
Speaker 1 (48:21):
No, this says twenty one weeks when they that's what
it says, twenty but that I thought you couldn't do
it after two Yeah, they're saying twenty one almost twenty
two weeks. I just didn't think you could do it after.
I mean, you can have your baby's viable at twenty
four weeks, which is insane. Three weeks later you could
have a living baby. My friend at church had a
(48:44):
baby at twenty two weeks and he is a healthy
young man today, which is like wild wild, Sorry not
twenty two weeks. I'm sorry, twenty four weeks. I take
it back, but still like.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
I think there's I think there was the youngest, the
youngest baby that was ever viable, like twenty two weeks,
like in history but rare. Yeah, so this is what
I think happened. Then I think that they they found
out this genetic testing and then at you know, at
twenty weeks, they do your anatomy scan and at that
(49:15):
time they might have I don't know if they saw anything,
because they could see certain things definitely, like the nukel
thickness of the neck would would be like more indicative
if they were going to have more problems because they're
down is also a spectrum, you know what I mean?
And yeah, I guess and whatever. Like I'm not going
(49:37):
to judge them on whatever decision they wanted to do,
like that's kind of their problem and it's their you know.
I'm more like, if you decide, I actually know two
different people that did that and decided to do that,
but they didn't go online and like try to get
attention for it exactly. That's why I'm annoyed by it.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Oh same, and listen, I have my thoughts on you know,
I don't know them as people. I don't know them personally,
so you know, I have also kept my opinions about
their decision to myself. However, when that came out, I
was basically crying. I was served all this content all
day with the cutest kids that had down syndrome, and
(50:19):
I was just like, why is this happening? Why am
I like getting served as content? Right? But I don't
say anything about it. What I'm talking about is the
same as you. Because Jesse Ridgeway the next day was like, oh,
the internet was mean to me. Oh my gosh, I
shared this decision. My wife and I are going through it,
and the internet is and it's just like.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, I mean they personally, yeah, like they probably were
just like what we decided to terminate the pregnancy, and
this and that and and my whole thing was because,
especially because they had to already tell the whole world
that they had this genetic test. They could have simply
did a post and said we lost the baby. We
(51:03):
appreciate privacy at this time, and nobody would have said anything.
It's really none of anybody's business what they did. And
if anything in this world, anybody, you're a reporter, you
could find out anything about anybody. You can't find out
somebody's private medical information. It's like the only thing in
this world that is private. They could have lied, they
(51:25):
could have said whatever. Nobody ever would have known it.
The people that treating them in the hospital will be like,
they're fucking liars. They can't say anything, right, I know,
And that's it. And it would have been swept under
the rug.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
And think about it. All these people seem to want
our clicks, views, subs. If you think about that, putting
a post out like that, taking a week to yourself
when you re emerge, think of all the people that
are gonna come flogging to you, that are gonna come
clicking and subscribing to you, being like are you okay?
You know you're back. We're so happy you're back. We
(51:58):
hope you were. Like it's just like, you know, I understand.
I go through things where I'm like, oh, I should
have done this, I should have done that knowing the outcome.
But the fact that they were so shocked that the
entire Internet wasn't like, ah, we support you guys, like
we're so supportive of you, Like.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
No, I actually think that this is a joint Like really,
I I can't say, like I cansider myself pro life,
like for myself, like I'm not I willn't do something
like that, but like I'm pro choice for other people
because I don't get I don't have to raise their
kids or pay for them and I don't give a shit.
Do whatever you want to do, right, And I was
discussed like disgusted by this. I know lots of people
(52:41):
who are pro choice that are just kind of like
you don't. This is a gross way of handling it
in general.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
This is because you want sympathy for what your decision,
and it's kind of like you realize this topic is divided.
Let's say fifty to fifty pro you know what I mean. Like,
let's say fifty to fifty, what do you think the
other fifty percent are gonna come at you and say, like,
what did you expect? Like what truly? And I don't
(53:09):
know if you saw the clip, but there's a clip
that's going around of him where he's reading part of
a chat and someone said, and I don't I have
a feeling this clip is from like people dig up
old clips, you know what I mean, Like they dig
up old clips whatever. I don't think this is from
anything recent if I had to guess, But I don't know.
(53:29):
But someone asked something about him being aborted, and he goes, yeah,
of course, I'm glad my dad didn't abort me. I'm normal.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Oh I saw that, And I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
That's got to be old, right, Like that can't be
That's got to be a vintage clip.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
I hope it is, but he's been posting since that.
Like at that time when everyone attacked you, you think you
would like pull back for a couple of weeks and
just be like, let me let this just like iron
itself out. And he's just like so defensive still and
I don't know, just like the whole way that it's
being handles grow. And then there's like this whole other
aspect that people are like, no, this like she was
(54:04):
never pregnant, because I do see a lot they're posting
a lot of video of when they did these announcements,
and like she is supposed to be twenty some weeks
and she's like flat as a board. I know some
people can be like that, so I don't want to.
I was.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
I was pretty just fat at twenty I didn't like show.
I didn't show until twenty four weeks pretty much, so
really get that.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
Yeah, I mean I showed at like ten weeks.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Wait, really my had friends like that. I just thought wider,
but I definitely looked fat. It was not.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
But there's like some there's like some weightlifter chicks that
are like on Instagram and it'll say they're thirty six
weeks pregnant and I'm like, really, there's like, seriously, you're
pregnant right now.
Speaker 3 (54:45):
So yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
I don't want to say that one hundred percent, but
just based upon their content of making up like these
dramatic stories and they are getting like so many views
and people. Now I don't even want to click on
it because I don't even want to give them the view.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Wait, I agree, And also because they did this, like
I didn't know who he was before Jesse. I had
no clue, and now TMZ's you know, once TMZ starts
posting you, they're going to continue with the story for
the most part if it's ongoing. So now they're getting
all this free publicity. And so you're right, I don't know.
We live in a sick, sick world. And again I'm
(55:23):
not It's funny. I even knew when I posted when
I retweeted Ridgeway, initially I said nothing about their decision, Nicole.
I wasn't even being like saying anything about them terminating
at twenty one weeks. Nothing. All I said was like,
I'm just horrified that these people want to be victims
(55:44):
because the Internet's not being nice to them. I was horrified,
and I even said to myself, I'm going to get
shit for this post. I expect shit on any post
that is cut and dry whatever, and I did. People
were coming at me being like, how dare you question
their decision? And I'm like, looking for where I question
the decision.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
I questioned their decision to post any of this. That's
the only decision I question.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Their decision to you know what I mean, yeah, to
post there, you know. And I'm like, people are just
gonna read what they want to read. They're gonna you know, so.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
And I was saying, like when I was making these comments,
I'm like, it's like a legit, like a Deity Blanchard
case of like munch House and by proxy, like you're
you put yourself in this situation and now you want
attention for it. Your kid was sick quote unquote, which
try so many twenty one, you decided to get an abortion,
(56:39):
and now you want attention for it.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
Like it's gross, It's just so gross.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Yeah, some things need to be sacred. I just can't.
I cannot imagine. I just I can't, especially now that
we're living in a culture where I never thought this
would be the case. But I mean, we're living in
a culture Nicole, and it makes me actually want to cry,
where like someone dies and then someone on the internet
takes like the worst thing about this person and just
(57:05):
puts it out there and says, good, I'm glad they're dead. Yeah,
you know, while this person still has family, this person
cannot you know, stick up for themselves anymore. Cannot It's
just like that was.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
Your boy, that was your boy Luigi, that started it,
That was the I feel like that was where it changed.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah, and then you know he's not my boy. For
those are that don't know me, I just cover that
case extensively, and I'm so sick of it, to be honest,
Like I'm telling you the it's the dramatics that have
happened outside of the courtroom, with all the press passes.
It's just gotten to be too much. And a lot
of the people that support Luigi, they they just unbiased.
(57:48):
Journalism is not a thing, okay. If you report exactly
what happens, if you do your job exactly, that's still
not enough. And you still are anti Luigi. I can't
even tell you. I just report what's going on inside
the courtroom. And I'm an anti Luigi journalist. I mean, yeah,
I'm anti murderer, I mean, but like yeah, sure, but
like I just I don't have any I don't care
about this kid either way, you know what I mean.
(58:10):
I have no nothing helps me to make him look bad,
nothing helps me to make the prosecution look good. I
just report what's going on.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
So, so before we wrap it up, just real quick
crime con It was.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
This the first time that you went?
Speaker 1 (58:24):
This was my second.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Oh you went? What what year? What year did you
go before?
Speaker 1 (58:29):
Uh not? I went to tennis Nashville. Yeah it was Nashville.
Oh okay, cool, that was twenty twenty three. I think no,
four four?
Speaker 3 (58:38):
Yeah, yeah, okay cool.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
So what did you I didn't know you then, so like, no,
I think I definitely know.
Speaker 3 (58:43):
It sucks.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
I just met you after that. I know. No. Vegas
was great. I think it's just like it was extra
exhausting because it's Vegas and you just seemingly can't go
to bed because everything's open. When you go back to
your hotel, it's like you see people that you know
and that you you know, and you're just like, okay, sure,
I'll gamble with you for a little bit. Why not.
(59:06):
I woke up on Sunday morning. I'll just I killed
so many brain cells. But Garret Goes, who owns LA
mag we were we were there and he's like, we
need to do a podcast at like eight am. I mean,
like Nicole, I sorry, Michelle's my coworker. I'm like, I
had not really I slept for two hours and we
did a podcast and I still can't watch it. Didn't
(59:28):
I told you?
Speaker 2 (59:29):
Did I ever tell you this phenomenon that everyone calls
me Michelle?
Speaker 1 (59:33):
No?
Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, like my entire my entire life. No, I'm serious.
It's so weird, Like since I've been a child.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
I've been I was talking to my coworker Michelle right
before this. That's why I that's so weird.
Speaker 2 (59:47):
One of the pathologists I used to work with, like
literally just it became such a joke.
Speaker 3 (59:51):
She was like Michelle, like that was my name.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
Whenever she saw me, she'd be like, hey Michelle, Oh
my god, yeah, no I have it's funny anyway.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
Anyway, yeah, no, anyway, but no, it was. It was great.
I will say the I hadn't really seen hate for
crime con until this year when I had posted I
was there, I was a lot of comments are popping
up about you know, I guess exploiting crime victims and stuff,
(01:00:18):
and I was like, oh no, no, no, And I
was like, let me show everybody this is absolutely not
what it's about. And so I made sure to go
and I you know, promoted and and showed everybody that
families of missing persons of you know, who want to
find out what happened to their loved one, they are
there begging for help. They love crime con. I mean
(01:00:42):
Gabby Patito's dad Joe, he loves crime con so he
can just spread the word about domestic violence and how
to help. And it's it really is. It's a great weekend.
It really is a great weekend and it does help
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah, I think that sometimes I got a little bit
of a bad rep like in all our world of
forensics too, as being like exploitive years ago, like and
now everybody's just kind of like, no, this is like
a great education event and it's you know, especially if
you're a victim of crime, I would think that you
want to be surrounded by people that are invested in
your case and like really want to get justice for
(01:01:18):
you or help you, like help it not happen to
other people.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
I agree I totally agree, and I feel like I
learn a lot. They have all these panels and it
just was Yeah, it was. It was cool, it was
it was a great weekend. They're doing it in Orlando
next year, so I think that's better. It's closer. It's
like a three hour plane bed over like five and
no time change and we can go to bed at
(01:01:42):
a normal hour and not or me anyway because I
have FOMO. So I feel like I'm missing Blackjack and
I'm I just I'm awful.
Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
So yeah, I'm like opposite.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
When I'm at crime Con, it's like I'm such a
nervous wreck about my lectures that I just sit in
my room like a total weirdo like the whole time
and then I can finally relax. But it's usually like
I'm leaving the next morning.
Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Okay, But you're different.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
You're I'm afraid like you actually.
Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Are like a medical professional with actual, like important things
to say. I just like stick around the boots and
like the no. We have very different experiences, so I
don't blame you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Oh stop, all right, Well are you working on anything
or where can everybody reach you?
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Yes? You can find most of my stories on lamag
dot com. You can follow me on x comlin Underscore Lauren.
You can also follow I kind of two YouTube channels.
I run the La mag YouTube Los Angeles Magazine videos
and also Pop Crime TV. So I'm constantly updating those
boots on the ground. I am your boots on the
ground for all of the New York cases. Yeah, and
(01:02:48):
you a foe.
Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
All right, Well, thanks so much for filling in for Maria.
Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
She will appreciate it. She misses you too.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
I really do. I want to come see you guys
and come see baby.
Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Yes, oh my god, yes, you have to come over.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
And so cute, so little, so cute. Wait, don't you
feel like like I just told you my kids had
like neurovirus and lice, Like I want to like put
my kids wrap them in plastic sheets before I even
come near your house, or like you're serious.
Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
We're not those kind of people.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
I've raised them to be, like you're human, like you're
going to be around this and stuff. But she, you know,
she had gestational diabetes, so I think that they were
bracing her for having this big baby. And he comes
out and he's like six pounds and seven ounce of
six seven. The kids were really excited about that. Yeah,
so stupid.
Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Wait how big were your kids? Were they?
Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Lillian was eight something and LULUs nines or I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Yeah, I just like don't even care.
Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
We have like solid kids. Both my kids are like
eight and a half nine pounds, So that's funny.
Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Yeah, Like, but it was good.
Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
They slept pretty good because of that, like they you know, but.
Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
It totally explains why I gained like eighty with one
and sixty with another.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Five.
Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Yeah. Remember yeah, and you're like a tiny little thing.
Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
No, it's hard to lose it too. I'm like, what
this is like bread? People say, breastfeeding, you lose it
live live? Lie. No you don't, No, you don't anyway.
Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
All right, Well thanks, we'll see you all.
Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Right, Thank you, bye bye.
Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Thank you for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder,
my training is as a pathologists assistant. I have a
master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.
I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed
or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of
a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social
(01:04:51):
media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based
on my experience working in pathology so they can make
healthier decisions for guarding their life and well being. Always
remember that science is changing every day and the opinions
expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge of
those subjects at the time of publication. If you are
(01:05:12):
having a medical problem, have a medical question, or having
a medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an
urgent care center, emergency room.
Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Or hospital.
Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks
Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Everyone, welcome the Mother Notes that'th On today's episode, our
friend Lauren Conlin is here and we're going to talk
about where she was yesterday, her recent trip to crime con,
the Anthony Carmelo verdict, and influencers who are going viral
for terminating their pregnancy all that.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Actually it's actually, uh Carmelo Anthony. But you know, I mean,
oh my god, you said Anthony Carmelo.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
It's fine, Carmelo, Anthony.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
You but you know, all the comments, You'll say a
whole you'll do a whole episode and one like.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
You're right, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
So and it's crazy because I was actually thinking about
this today when I was writing up my notes, how
sometimes we talk a lot about the person that killed
the person more. I feel like with the Idaho case,
for example, Brian Coberger is more known with his name
than the actual victims are. You know, like it's just
(01:12):
like a weird association.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So I guess what I meant for Unicol was like,
whenever this happens to me and I say one thing
wrong on a recording, all of the comments are just
very focused on it's actually Carmelo Anthony, you know. And
I'm like, oh, okay, no, sorry, did you hear any
of the other podcasts?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Oh no, trust me? Like this is this is just
normal in this field. So all right, let's let's first
talk about before we get into that case, let's talk
about where what's going on with you? Like yesterday we
were actually supposed to record and you said, oh, I
have to go to DC.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So why were you there?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, so I took a day trip to DC because
there was a big press conference with former intelligence officer
David Grush, who had testified before Congress in twenty twenty
three making all types of allegations about just UFO disclosure
and wanting protections against UAP whistleblowers. And for those unfamiliar,
(02:12):
UFO is pretty much the same thing as UAP. It's
sort of evolved. Unidentified flying objects have now evolved into
unidentified aerial phenomena. So there's this presser happening in the
lawn and it was led by Grush and also James Fox,
a filmmaker who has done a ton of research on
(02:34):
aerospace and NASA and UFOs, and then Leslie Keene a
New York Times journalist who's done the same type of research.
And then Congress, the lawmakers that you have seen on
television are going viral for demanding transparency. Eric Furlinson, Rep.
Anna Luna, Tim Burchett, and then a Democrat, the only Democrat,
(02:57):
Jared Moskowitz. And so this is a bipartisan effort, and
they were calling for President Trump to completely sign off
on releasing all of the files pertaining to UAPs as
a potential, you know, national security issue. If we don't
get this, he wants President Trump to sign off on everything.
(03:19):
And I you know, it's the comments I was seeing
on my live stream, because I livestream the whole thing.
A lot of people were saying, you know, this is
a distraction, this is BS whatever. I don't. I am
at the point where I go back and forth every
day about this. I mean, this has been going on
for a very long time now. The fact that the
(03:41):
government believes UFOs are real, like we're talking like the
nineteen forties and what the government showed us in the
war dot gov slash UFO website. It got over a
billion views. People are interested. So whether or not it's
a distraction, like I am ready for it. But one
thing that I was very upset about in Nicole is
I have been focused on the missing scientists, a handful
(04:05):
of them, specifically researching, talking to family members, and when
it was announced by Caroline Levitt that the White House
and the FBI would be looking into these cases to
see if they had overlapped. Because there's only so much
I feel like as a journalist I can do to
an extent with you know, if you work at and sorry,
(04:25):
I'll wrap this up. I know I'm talking a lot,
but if you work at Wright Patterson or the Pentagon
or you know, the Casey NSC, it's really difficult to
get just it's difficult to figure out if it's not
on LinkedIn exactly what the job description is. Public affairs
won't tell you if you call, and it's like, we
(04:46):
don't know what these people were working on. We know
Monica Raza, the rocket scientist from NASA JPL, was working on,
you know, jet propulsion and burn resistant metal alloys. We
know that, but we need to know more. We need
to know more about General McCaslin and if anything overlapped.
(05:06):
And that's where I feel like the FBI and the
White house could come in. So I yelled this question
twice at the presser. I was ignored the first time.
My voice was very loud. The second time I got
a very very odd response from Tim Burchett, very odd.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And what did he say?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
He it was, you got to kind of see the
video I did put it up on Twitter. I should
send I mean, I can send it to you, and
I should because it's his whole. His stance kind of changes.
You can see his body language change. He appears to
be irked by the question, and his answer was something
along the lines of of like, of course, of cour
(05:45):
What did he say? He said, of course something is
going on. I'm just pulling up the video. And I
was like, yeah, no, I know. Of course something is
going on. He said, y'all are the media. You'll figure
it out. I'm like, oh, oh.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's any job now.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, but the thing is, like, I what do you
think I'm trying to do. I am trying to figure
it out. Of course I am. I feel like I'm
one of the few. If you type my name and
any of the missing scientists and beyond, I'm looking into them.
I'm doing videos on them again. I'm reaching up to family.
So I either he didn't understand my question, but I
think he did, or it's my opinion and understanding that
(06:26):
I don't think the FBI or the White House are
really looking into this or caring enough to provide updates
because it's been months, I mean literally.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So all the scientists have some you believe all the
scientists have some kind of ties to all this information,
like it all goes together kind of.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I don't think all of them do. No, So some
of them are are involved in national defense, some of
them are involved in aerospace. General McCaslin does have a
connection to the UAP world. I mean he Air Force
Research Lab. He oversaw again Wright Patterson, He oversaw eighty
percent of the black ops projects at the Pentagon. I mean,
(07:05):
there was a body CAMRA nine one one call recently
released and I afoided all of this information. I've got nothing.
Somehow long crime gets everything. I need to know their ways.
But a woman said she was with Neil McCaslin the
night before he went missing, and they're asking, well, what's
his security clearance like? And he's retired, but he's on
the board at Kirtland Partnerships, and she said he's got
(07:28):
a top security clearance. He's in the UFO files. I
find that to be weird. But for the rest of
the people that were named, no, I do not think
they are all connected. I think some of them are
just tragic accidents, just regular, you know, heart attacks. Melissa Cassias,
she's being painted as a scientist at Low Salamo. She
(07:51):
wasn't at all. She was an administrative assistant. I've dug
deep into that. I don't think her job has anything
to do with her death. I think it's more of
a personal thing. But still, the White House, the FBI,
you said you were looking into this. Not a weird
question for a reporter to ask for an update at
a UAP presser, that's all.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Do you think that, like what do you think since
you're kind of involved with this, Like, do you actually
think that Alliance are a thing?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, so I do. I don't think they're little quote
little green men, right. But I do think that I
go back and forth because on one hand, I think
the way that Fox News and look, I watch Fox News,
you know, I'm a contributor with Fox. I just think
the way they position all of this with Jesse Waters
and Sean Hannity, the way they clip these for the
(08:41):
Internet and do all caps. Holy crap, this guy just
said this, Terresta. It's like, no, we need, we need
more than that. We have these guys telling us it's
for shock value, for things to go viral. I got
to see it. I'm glad you saw it. But even
yesterday with Tim Burchett, something he said during his speech
I didn't love talked about saying. He said something like,
(09:02):
you know, it's not about little green men, it's about
the budgets, meaning like we're not seeing this, and I'm like, wait,
but I just saw you on Joe Rogan pretty much
talk about these things that you're seeing in the skiff,
kind of like describing I don't want to say little
green men, but shocking, you know, shocking beings here, and
all of a sudden it's about budget. So I just
(09:23):
I don't know. I don't know, Nicole. I do believe
that God created more than just humans, right, We have animals,
We have a lot of different species out there, So
I think that it is naive right to think that
we are the only ones with fingers with toes with
you know what I'm saying. I do, But again, I
(09:44):
don't think that it's I don't think we're talking Independence
Day in like a tube with litwy like like with
like you know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Know not to be so you're like around my age.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Do you remember I'll never forget When I was in
seventh grade, I went to the movies to see this
movie called Fire in the Sky and it's an alien movie.
It scared the shit out of me so bad that
I'm serious that now I just and I don't even know,
like I might watch it today and be like, how
did that scare me?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
But it was.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It was like an alien abduction thing, and it just
scared me so bad. And ever since then, I'm like,
I don't even want to know, Like, I'm fine, you.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Might need to send that to me. Fire in the Sky.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, I just remember seeing it at the theater. I
mean keep in mind that I was twelve or thirteen
years old when I saw it. It could watch it
be like you know when you look back at something
like Land of the Lost or something and you see
these dinosaurs and you're like, wait, I ever thought that
that even looked.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So my kids they get so mad at me because
I'm like, this movie was so good When I was
a kid, and then we watch it. I'm like, sorry,
it was so good at the time. I have no
clue why I got so bad.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
They're like, yeah, thanks, yeah, because we're like that's happening
with us right now, because we're like hardcore into Michael
Jackson because we've watched the movie now three times.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Wait I took I get to see it in theaters. Yeah,
to cover their eyes when he was beating Michael with
the bell.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Oh no, I wanted them to see that because I
was like, you guys, have a good life.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You need to watch this because some kids are going That.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Was, by the way, just saying I don't think that
movie is a movie. I think it's an experience. I
don't think it's necessarily the great cinematic masterpiece because sorry,
they paint Michael Jackson as being half in the bag,
like and he probably is. Well, I don't know. Did
you watch the Verdict?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeh, yes, I did you know? What though I had
I had a really.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Are your thoughts? People are gonna get mad?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
What about Michael Jackson?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, so the movie itself was it gave it may
I swear to god, I teared up like five times
during the movie because it just was very nostalgic of
what I remember Michael Jackson to be when we were kids, right,
all the good part of it. And I am aware
I saw Finding Neverland and I like, and now this
new one. And yet like I think that he definitely
(12:03):
there's a part of me that's just like he had
a very abnormal life and I think that he has
this huge arrested development, like just as a child as
it is, right, like he really thought that he was
equal to these children.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, I feel this well like.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
He wasn't a regular fifty year old man.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
No, no, And I well I'll tell you first, just
remind me, see, I never saw Finding Neverland? Is this
when Wade Robson came out and said I lied on
the stand? Is that the doc that he said that
no one is that?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I think I'm not.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I think that was more about the the family that
might have been living in New Jersey. And remember he
was like our visio, yeah, and he was like yeah,
And when I saw that, like, I don't know, like
a kid can make up whatever, because the thing is
is that like, don't put yourself in that situation that
you're sleeping in a bed with a child and they
could make it up or not, but I mean him
(13:01):
sending these faxes to the kids and just like these
certain behaviors, and that interview obviously when he's just like
when he pulled that kid out, that was so bizarre.
(13:21):
This week's episodes are brought to you by the Grocer,
and for this week's high profile death dissection, we talked
about Kimberly Chippewa. You might remember she was the twelve
year old girl that was involved in a bullying incident
at school a few months ago and was involved in
a fight. She was trying to actually stand up for
(13:42):
her sister and was hit on the head with a
metal water bottle and she died a.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Few days later.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So we talked about how there was a homicide investigation underway,
and then this shocking information came out within the past
couple of weeks that the autopsy was ruled a natural death.
So we really go through that whole case in the
grossroom and try to figure out how exactly the medical
examiner rules a case where there was a girl who
(14:10):
had a traumatic blunt force injury and somehow her death
was ruled a natural manner of death. And then so
we go through like what we're going to look through
at the autopsy, and honestly, after doing the whole entire post,
I agree with the medical examiner, So you might want
(14:31):
to read that and check out why I say that.
And then we have a couple really disturbing videos in
the gross Room. One involves a snake that ate a person,
and this week's Forensic Friday was on a five thousand
year old autopsy and how that information is being used
to help solve cold cases today. We also had a
(14:54):
couple interesting requests from members in the gross room this week,
going over some scenes that happened in pulp fiction and
if they could be medically real, if they're fiction, or
if they're things that could actually happen. So we go
through those scenes in the movie and then talk about
exactly what or what would not happen in real life.
(15:16):
Head over to the grossroom dot com.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Now, he but it's kind of like the the the director,
I'm blanking on his name.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
He kind of said like Michael was proud. He wanted
to show this is the kid that I helped. He
had cancer and now he's in remission. I'm so proud.
But going back to what you said, I think, and
you know, people are. They get very upset about the
Michael Jackson thing. And I actually get it because I
found myself and you and I are very educated in
(15:53):
this world, you more so than I am, especially when
it comes to I just feel like every even you know,
even the non medical stuff, even like the psych stuff
you were just so good about. I found myself watching
The Verdict on Netflix, the three part series, hearing certain
things about what he would do to kids or what
kids said, and in my brain, I was making excuses
(16:16):
for him, the most insane things that are so obvious
that a kid would say. Well, he had me watch
this with him, and we circled the naked you know,
and I'm like, well maybe, And then I was like, Lauren,
snap out of it. Oh, I was making excuses for
him because I love him so much, or I do
(16:36):
you know what I'm saying. And then I realized. I
realized that the prosecution put on a horrible, horrible case
for him. Horrible, Okay, the defense put on a phenomenal case.
They impeached so many witnesses, they created so much reasonable doubt,
and guys, you have to watch this and you have
(16:58):
to get the transcripts to really understand and that you
can believe some of the kids that went on the
stand and said he touched me. He did this because
I did. But you can't ignore the defense impeaching. The
employee that said she saw Michael Jackson's hand down mcaulay
Culkin's pants. She gets thirty grand from hard copy, but
she also got fired. McAuley Culkin, the biggest celebrity, comes
(17:21):
on the stand right and says he never did that.
You can't ignore that. That's putting more doubt in their heads. So,
in my opinion, watching that made me realize that this
is I love Michael Jackson so much, I didn't want
to believe it. And I'm a reasonable person where I
change my mind, you can. I'm not someone who's so
(17:42):
set in my belief. If you tell me Karen reads
guilty and then I see something that says she's not guilty,
you know, vice whatever, I'm like, I'll change my mind.
And that's I was just realized. I was so sick.
I was like, oh my god, he did this, but
he was found not guilty. And he also is not
a regular person.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, And I think that's the hardest part of it.
Because when I mean he he was around that time,
like the same age as as us and my like
forty to fifty year old, right, he's he I don't know,
Like even though he's he's a man in front of you,
it's like the same way you look at him and
you're like, you don't think that he's a black person, right,
It's just like you.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Don't think he's an adult either. It's no, I don't
know what he is exactly. I don't know him.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And then when his dad his dad like this is
just another black man, I'm like, I'm like, well, I
guess if we're gonna be technical, sure, but it's like
we're not. This is you can't blame this on Rea,
Like when that I did. Now, I'm like, this is
not a racial thing, Like this is a very big deal.
And the other thing is like you and I I
feel like are cut from a similar cloth where if
(18:47):
we hear something about a you know, an edo, were
like hang them like death in the town square, like
let them let them like you touch a child and
you wreck a child's conf it into their you know
that to me is unforgivable. And so the fact that
I was watching this and I was offering so much
grace to Michael Jackson because I was such a fan
(19:10):
of him. I was. It was just confusing. And then
and then hearing the impeached testimony about you know, other
kids getting called out for lying, I'm just like, I
don't know, I don't understand this. I just don't. It's
very troublesome, very trouble.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Their parents were like really disgusting too.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
That I said to my kids too, I said, what
would you guys do if an adult said can you can?
And I said sure. They were like, we would we
would never like what, we would be so scared we
would be.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And I know, I know, like my one of my
kids was like, well, why is the one kid not
talking to his mom anymore? And I was like, listen,
I was like, you're the same as that age. If
I just let you go sleep in some man's bed
and he ended up assaulting you, wouldn't you be like, oh,
she didn't protect me?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Like hello, yesh, yes suh.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
And And you know, they kind of indicated there was
a payoff there for these parents, which is growth They
essentially sold their children, so to speak. And I don't
mean it in a you know, I just mean, like
they receive benefits for loaning their kids out to sleep
in his bed, whether or not anything happened with each
(20:20):
kid in the bed. I can't speak to that, but
I would just think as an adult now thinking back
about that stuff, that might not sit right with me.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You know what's really interesting though, that I just thought
of I don't know why I just thought of this,
but when when you're watching that show, it's at the
very end of it said that he died four years
after this, right, and I'm like, oh my god, if
he actually went to jail for this, he would still
be alive.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Oh yeah, because he wouldn't Oh see, I don't know
about that either, though. I think he was such a
drama queen. Do you think he could have lasted through
a detox like that? His body was so weak and
like just so, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I mean, well, I don't know, Like at his autopsy,
I think that his if he was in jail and
didn't have a person giving him propofall and all this stuff,
and he I mean, he would be at least medically
regulated in jail, he'd probably get I don't know. I
obviously I feel like they would keep him isolated, but
like as far as his health goes, like his organs
(21:23):
at autopsy were very normal and good.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Like his heart looked good, it were.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, like his lungs he had some kind of like
chronic lung damage, but it was nothing that would have
killed him.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
He could have had some problems.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
But if he was on a good diet and was
exercising and wasn't on all those crazy drugs, I feel
like he would one hundred percent still be alive. I mean,
his parents are still alive, you know what I mean,
it's a point.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
No, you're so right.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
His family's mom is at least anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Ye, yeah, his mom is alive. Joe's dadd Yeah, yeah,
I think. But he just died like he did right recently. Yeah,
hold on, I had to look that up Joe Jackson
when I.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Feel like it was within the past.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, he died at eighty nine, so not he had
pancreatic cancer. He died in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, so like they he you know, he just I
really really believe that that the only reason. I mean,
I don't think that he would be mentally well at all.
I mean he would if he actually went to prison
for that I'm sure he'd still have a huge fan base.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Honestly, I don't think that anybody.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
But if you think about it, and you know, we
can we can kind of pivot in a second. But
it's like people will stand outside the courtroom, and this
goes for Carmelo Anthony as well Michael Jackson. It's like
they stand outside the courtroom holding signs when they don't
even know what's being said inside the courtroom. They've already
made up their mind based on whatever they want to say,
(22:52):
you know. For Carmelo Anthony, I do believe it was
based on race, that a lot of people made up
their mind that he didn't deserve to be there with
my Jackson. It was his fame. That's that's how I feel.
And if you feel differently about Carmelo Anthony, I know
this is a very touchy topic and everybody will probably
come at me whatever, but that's fine. I just feel
(23:13):
that people were protesting for him because of the color
of his skin, and they felt like this was an
injustice somehow, you know, for the color of his skin.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And I understand that in certain cases. This the Carmelo
Anthony one is I don't see it that way. I mean, whatever,
people are incited to have their opinion. But let's talk
about that a little bit, because I don't know that
we have ever talked. We might have talked about it
in the grocery, but I'm not sure we talked about
it on this show. But why don't you just give
(23:43):
like a quick rundown of what went down with that case.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, So this is Colin County, Texas, April twenty twenty five,
nine thirty in the morning. There's a track meet. It's
at a Frisco high school track meet. But Austin Metcalf
and his twin brother they go to Memorial Carmelo. Anthony
goes to a high school I believe it's called Centennial.
And you know there's this tent culture you go to
(24:08):
track meet's, there's the four pole pronged tents. You know,
they're underneath them. They kind of treat these as locker room.
So and by the way, keep in mind, I was
not in the courtroom for this. And this is I
think the issue with this case where anytime someone talks
about this Nicole, I've talked about it on multiple videos.
I've gotten my reporting from Cody Thomas at Court TV
(24:30):
and also from a local Texas news station CBS, where
I look at the updates hour by hour and I
still get told you have wrong information. Well, because they're
watching another TikToker or they're watching someone else. This is
my information that I got from two legitimate sources that
I trust, and Cody personally, like we text about it,
(24:51):
and he's been in the courtroom. So anyway, it's been argued.
You know, Carmelo ducked under this tent for to get
out of the rain. It was a rainy morning, and
this tent did not belong to his team. It was
not his quote locker room. It belonged to Austin Metcalf
and their memorial team and his.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Team didn't have a tent or something because they didn't.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I don't know exactly what the deal was with that
about his team not having a tent, but there he
was sitting with this guy Eddie, and there was a
lot of talk about this guy Eddie, and Eddie was
a friend of Carmelo's family. He either dated someone Carmelo
knew in the family or just you know, knew of
him through whatever. I don't know. So you know, he's
(25:39):
sitting with Eddie and they basically say, wait, like you
got to get up, you know, you got to leave.
Witnesses say he was asked to leave, and I'll tell
you about Eddie. But witnesses say he was asked to
leave up to fifteen times. And this is where it
starts to sort of get a little hairy. I mean,
it was it was stated that Austin kind of either
(26:00):
shoved him or pushed him, but I think the consensus
here is it wasn't deadly forced that he used when
he just said get out of here. Also, a witness
testified that Austin said I'm not going to fight you man,
which completely completely diminishes the self defense theory that Carmelo
Anthony was using. I mean, if anything, I think at
(26:22):
the beginning he could have said maybe imperfect self defense,
which is like the Menendez brothers who say, hey, I
did it. I got to take some kind of culpability
for this and I'm sorry, but I did it because
of Xyz. He didn't even do that his lawyers, and
I don't actually you know this defense. I blame on
his attorneys, like they were having him take no culpability,
(26:42):
which is insane. So I guess he had his hand
in this bag and he said, you know, walk touch
me and see what happens type of thing, And upon
being pushed, he did the one. It was a three
and a half inch blade that he got him right
in the chest and he he took off running and
this area in the chest which you can probably speak to,
(27:04):
he bled out internally, and someone on the stand, one
of his coaches, his parents, Austin's parents had to leave
the room. Was so tragic because he started praying with
his twin brother. He kind of knew Austin was dying,
and he started watching the color drain from his face
and something happened where he said he knew this from
just being in the army and watching people die, where like,
(27:27):
I don't this is going to sound dumb. It's not
like a second wind or something. But they start to
breathe a little bit. But he knew that type of
shallow breathing meant he was dying, while everyone else was like, oh,
maybe he's okay, but he didn't say anything because he
didn't want to upset them. So when Austin walks out
of the tent, he kind of goes running. He runs
into another coach and that coach. Basically, he tells them
(27:48):
what happened, and he says, well, did you ever think
about like this kid could die, like your life is
going to be completely changed. You could have killed someone,
and Carmelos start crying. Reportedly, the police come, you know,
they arrest him. He admits it. He says, They say
that you know, he allegedly stabbed him, and he said,
not allegedly, I did it. He gets in the back
(28:10):
of the cop car and I can also send you this.
There's a I got the original police affidavit and he
actually asks, is he going to be okay? I mean,
so this he wasn't right, But I think the fact
is in that courtroom his defense did an incredibly terrible job.
We don't know why this guy is bringing a knife
(28:32):
to the school grounds, to a school function. I have
seen so many different reports. Well it was okay that
he brought this, he needed it for protection. I don't know,
how do you know?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I mean, see this is I think a lot of
it has to do with culturally, like kids just thinking
that they're badasses and stuff.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
They were in.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Frisco, Texas, which was voted last year as the second
most safest city in the United States of America. They're
in the verbs, they're not in the inner city. There's
absolutely no reason that you need to be cool and
carry a weapon with you if you're not prepared to
use it or pull it out to threat. When you
take out a knife to threaten someone, it's the same
(29:12):
as a gun. Like when you point a gun at someone,
expect that you're going to murder them. Don't be like
a badass and think you're cool. And a lot of
it is cultural.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Question, Nicole, that's the question because during the pre trial
stuff and like the bond hearings whatever, apparently he had
been suspended previously for bringing a knife to school, so
there was a little bit of contention there saying, well,
should he even have been at the track meet in
the first place, And apparently the suspension was prior, so
it was fine. But like here he comes again bringing
(29:44):
the knife, and you know a lot of people say, oh,
well it's legal to okay whatever. But again, this kid, Carmelo,
he wasn't a thug, He wasn't like, he got good grades.
He obviously you know, he was into sports, He worked
two jobs. He seemed to have a future. I don't
know where this came from right, like, I'm so confused
(30:06):
at why this kid would pull I don't understand how
you're also at a track meet with lots of adults,
it's mourning. How would you pull out a knife instead
of just like dodging away? And all the kids testified
like nobody was was circling around him. And I've also
gotten some crap for saying this. I personally felt like
(30:28):
if there was going to be this big fight that
was about to ensue, that all the kids would whip
out their phones or maybe they would hear because another
girl said she heard a discussion from another tent saying
you got to leave, but she didn't come running over
with her phone or anything to say, ooh a fight.
No one else pulled out a phone. So how big
(30:48):
was this argument? Was this discussion? How much did it
escalate before he whipped out a knife? It just didn't
seem like it was escalating too much. And he wasn't thinking.
He didn't think of the console Quince's when he took
out a knife and plunged it into Austin Metcalf. He wasn't.
I just this is my problem. Where what the laws
(31:09):
in Texas? Oh? So here's something, Nicole. The jury rejected
this sudden passion plea, which is insane to me. Not
a plea, but the sudden passion. So basically, Carmelo got
thirty five years. He was sentenced to He's eligible for
parole in seventeen and a half years, but he could
have gotten capped at twenty years if the jury accepted
(31:32):
the sudden passion meaning I wasn't planning to do it,
but then he provoked me and I stabbed him. Right,
They did not even think he was provoked enough to
get yeah, So so.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Like who or any psychologists trying to like chime in
or anything to see like what was that about?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
It?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Just it does seem like really outrageous.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Even if they were in a fight, their first thought
would be like, okay, you punched the kid.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
I don't know that he was, So I think that
what the defense was trying. And again, and I apologize,
I wasn't in the courtroom, and that's why this is
so tough sometimes. But the defense was trying to show
that the Metcalf boys were towering over Carmelo. They were tall,
they were two hundred pounds plus, you know, over six
feet and Carmelo was much smaller, so that's why, you know,
(32:21):
a punch wouldn't necessarily have worked. But also like I
just leave. So but back to this guy, Eddie, I
think where the defense kind of looked good for once.
It's like they had Eddie on the stand. Obviously he
was testifying for I think it was for the prosecution,
but yeah, and basically he had kind of said, you know,
(32:42):
I was talking to Carmelo, but like I don't really
know him, like we're not really like I just kind
of know him, and so he was really distancing himself.
But then when the defense came up, they showed like
a series of pictures of Carmelo and Anthony at Carmelo
and Anthony, Carmelo and Eddie at fam functions and whatnot,
basically making this kid look like he wasn't being so truthful,
(33:06):
which all that does is sort of make the jury think, Okay,
anything he said to the prosecutor before that, do I
really want to take seriously or do I really want
to take you know, or do I want to take
it in stride because he was called out kind of
for lying. So I just feel like Carmelo Anthony what
he could do at this point, I mean, his life
(33:27):
is pretty much over. But if I were him, and
this is completely objective, because I think he belongs in jail.
I think obviously he took another kid's life and that
is unspeakable, But I do think he when he appeals,
it should be for ineffective counsel. Some of what the
lawyer was saying, from what I read, Austin Metcalf stabbed himself,
(33:48):
he moved around, so then I mean awful, awful stuff.
Or the jury apparently gasped. I mean, he just he
wasn't he wasn't good. They should have argued, they should
have basically maybe even pled manslaughter. Okay, see just to
see if the prosecution could because just self defense. With
the video they had, it was grainy, it wasn't it
(34:10):
was just bad. It was bad.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So yeah, I was I was just thinking that too,
Like I mean, maybe I've never been a defense lawyer obviously,
but didn't he have a lawyer prior to that that
ended up dropping them or something like that. There was
like you just look at it and say, maybe the
evidence was so strong that they said, all right, well
(34:32):
let's just like throw this and see if it sticks.
Because like we can't do anything. He's going away regardless.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
What's confusing to me. I think is he and I
don't know all the details about this, and this is
I cannot independently verify. But I know that he has
and the GoFundMe is still open. Okay, six figures plus? Well,
I can, I can pull it up right now.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, I think it was three at this point.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It was Oh wait, is that how much it was? No?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Hold on, Oh, it's gone pretty high, I believe.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Hold on, let me see.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I know it was at like six hundred thousand, but
I think it's still open and it's still getting money.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Because okay, help carmelo, let's see. Oh whoa, Oh no, no,
the goal is a million. They're at six hundred and
thirty three thousand dollars right now, basically so. But what
it says is the purpose of the fund. They're saying
that the purpose of the fund is his legal defense. Okay,
(35:37):
And there's rumors going around that he used a public
defender and his mom bought them a house and like
a gated community or something. But his lawyer, his name
is Mike. I just had his name, Mike Bundy. I
think it is Mike Howard. Sorry, Mike Howard. That's a lawyer.
(36:12):
His lawyer is not a public defender. He used to
be a public defender and he used to work in
legal aid, but now he has a private practice, so
that seems to be a rumor that he spent they
spent all the money on a house.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I think the news had said I believe it was
CBS or something said that that was just a rumor
that it was that was going.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
I mean, you never could trust because these stories go.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Viral on that like a simple Google will tell you
his lawyer's not a public I just don't get people
where I'm like, google it. His lawyer's not a public
defender like he's he used to be. But that being said,
he sucked and I do believe that they did not
buy the best money could buy because you can get
any attorney in the nation to you know, go to
(36:58):
a judge and or attorney. Know, someone can practice in
Texas even though they live in New York. You can
do that. You could have done better, and they didn't.
They There is proof that they did buy some other
things with this money, but not they didn't do that
with a public defender but either way he got yeah,
(37:18):
and when they read the verdict, apparently he was shaking
and it was like convulsing, and his lawyer Askedes Carmelo
asked that they could have a minute for him to
compose himself, and the judge is like, nope, things move
differently now, like now you're in the custody of the sheriff.
Like it was like boom, like your life is about
to change.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Like, well, it does scare me because I think that
some people don't have as much respect for like life
in general. Like I just don't really think that he
understands and you have to do You do have to
take into consideration that he's seventeen years old too, so
he does know right from wrong totally, but like their
(38:00):
brains are still not one hundred percent formed.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
So yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You could say, well, my seventeen year old wouldn't do that,
Like I understand that, but I feel like life in
prison would have been a little bit harsh, honestly, just
because he was seventeen when it happened.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
But I'm I'm actually surprised that he got thirty five years.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
You're saying that's a lot or no, I just was.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I was just surprised, like I that he got that
much just because well.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
But again I go back to this and I said,
I had a discussion with with Geragos, Mark Geragos, who's
a criminal defense attorney. We put out a podcast the
other day. I said, you know, I was surprised this
wasn't a manslaughter charge, but I didn't exactly know the
I know them now in Texas it's it's capital murder, murder,
(38:55):
and then it's manslaughter. So this did tech technically meet
the elements of rehtorum right, Sorry, I'm saying this for
your algorithm. For you too, I realize, so technically it
did in my experience, and I had to go back
and read the laws because you it can be premeditated
within seconds before you before you do it. Because my
(39:18):
whole thing was like, well, wait, he didn't show up
to the track meet. He didn't even know who Austin
Metcalf was. You know what I mean, he didn't know.
It's not like he was planning to kill him the
night before. It wasn't like that. But it's like, why
did you bring a knife and why did you take
it out? What was your purpose? What was the purpose?
I just it goes back to what you said, I
(39:39):
don't think he thought about the consequences and he took
a life because of it. A young boy lost his life.
His family will never be the same, his brother will
I mean a whole A family is changed forever. And
Carmelo Anthony, your family is changed forever because of what
you did and your decision. So I just I hate
this case. I hate it.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
And if it Austin Metcalfe would have been another kid
in a couple months down the road. Like if he
was that spastic and impulsive pulling it out like that,
it was going to happen in another situation because because
people get in the art house.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
What was going on, they described. You know, I wish
we had insight from his friends and you know what else, Nicole,
I wish he took the stand. He should have taken
the stand in his own defense because I think that
if he did, people could see maybe what maybe the
police officer saw this kid crying saying I didn't mean to.
Maybe that could have gotten him sudden passion. But from
(40:37):
what I understand from Cody Thomas, he was stoic. He
did not react. He didn't like and that also doesn't
look great to a jury, you gotta be sorry. And
if he didn't look sorry, that's also messed up. Then
I don't know what if you're you know, if you're
only sorry that you are going to jail, that's another
thing too, Right is he only crying and sorry? Because yeah, all.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Right, Like so let's move on to another case about
people who are going online being really sorry? What this
case with the I I like hate these people. I
listen when we're when I'm online and stuff, I see
a lot of things that bother me and I don't comment.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
And when I.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Saw this case, I just was like, I can't keep
my mouth shut about this because this is so gross.
So let's talk about these people, Mick, Jugger, Nuggets, What
the hell are their names?
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I never even heard.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Of them even know who they were. Nicle, I was like,
who's Jesse Ridgeway? I don't even know who that is?
Like how many followers?
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Does he have a lot?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
I feel like on YouTube or something? I feel like
he had like a lot. Wasn't it like a couple
million or something?
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Let me see hold on?
Speaker 3 (41:49):
And I'm just like, well, somebody's heard of him.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I did not even want to give him like the
benefit of like the make jugger nuggets, Like what does
that even mean?
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
See, it's.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
It's more than both of us combine, Lauren, you must
say some kind of magic.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I don't. And it's him. I'm sorry, it's him, just
like some people want they want you just like crying
like some kind of I just hate him.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Why do he just he just sucks?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
So I guess his Their whole entire thing is like
they make a lot of videos for for shock click things,
which I guess, which is why a lot of people
are saying, is it possible that this whole thing isn't
even real?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
I don't know which would be worse. I really don't mean.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I mean, do you mean, like, okay, do you mean
the pregnancy was never real? Or she's not actually aborting?
Speaker 3 (42:52):
No, they just there's people.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
So let's first talk about because I haven't talked about
that on the show yet. So I guess in what
was it happens March in twenty twenty six that she
found out that she was pregnant. They this is their
first baby, they just recently got married, and and then
so then they did some video that they were reading
some genetic testing that.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Oh well wait, but go back to the point where
like they not only do they announce the pregnancy, Nicole,
they show ultrasound videos and they say, look at the
little guy moving, and we're talking like, Nicole, we're talking
like seventeen weeks and stuff like you're saying like look
at him, like, look at the little guy. Look at this.
You know it's it's a human. We can see the baby,
(43:37):
the baby. Let's just say that, we can see the
fetus the baby. It looks more and more like a
baby every day.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
So Okay, So this is what I'm confused about the
timeline of it, just because I, you know, I fairly
recently went through two pregnancies and stuff. So I guess
they do another video and now they're reading live the
results they got from was it from a self free
DNA test? Like That's what I'm confused about, because you
(44:03):
had that done right, Like first you get the blood working.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Thenoble screening like in the remember they take the fluid
from the neck at three at twelve weeks. That's also
what I was confused because.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Well, for like first they're going to do a screening
with a blood test, right, which I'm sure you had done,
and did you find out the sex through the blood
test or okay? So but when did you get those
results back? Because I swear to god, I was like
nine weeks when I got those results back.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Same I got eight weeks, I got okay.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
So that's a self free DNA test, and that's going
to be a screening that says like you have an
increased risk of the feet as possibly having downs right
or any other genetic things. Right at that point, the
only way to confirm that is to do a test
called an amniocentesis or a choreonic Villai sampling, So they
take a biapsy of the choreonic villies like the immature
(44:52):
placental tissue or from the fluid around, depending on how
far along you are with that. So I've really what
they were actually reading. I'm just kind of like, why
are you reading this at seventeen weeks? This is like
something that you already should have known about for a while.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
So the one thing that I will say is, I
think from what I recall at twelve weeks, you go
into the hospital and you do the nucle screening where
they do measure the fluid.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
They measure the next Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
And if it's a certain whatever over a certain amount
of inches, they will say, Okay, you know, the baby
has xyz percent of a change. Like they told me
my son, they said, uh, Paisley was fine. They're like,
she's good. But then with MJ. They basically said he
has a point oooo something percent chance of having down syndrome.
(45:45):
I'm like, okay, so all right, Like it was just
more like a okay, thanks for telling me type of thing.
If there was more of a percentage more of a concern,
they would offer that the amniotic thing, which or getting
the fluid from the amniotics, but that also could harm
your baby. They warn you, They say, yeah, you know
(46:06):
there's a chance that this could you know, kill your baby,
So you either take the chance of just you know,
not knowing and if it happens, it happens, or just whatever.
So it sounds like they decided to do that a
little bit later. Do you think like maybe they got
this information at twelve or thirteen weeks. The next time
(46:27):
they could come in was like maybe two weeks from there,
and then they I don't know, That's what I was
thinking about the whole But the.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Whole thing's weird.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
And also like, you know, why why are you reading
your your your test live? And then like the crying,
it's so it's just gross and completely unnecessary. So they're
they're live on camera and they're reading that their baby
has down syndrome. Try so many twenty one right, it
(46:54):
has extra copy of twenty one chromosome, so yes, and
they're hysterically crying and like, you know, just like all this,
which is just like I feel like That's why I
was more annoyed with it, because I'm just like, these
are private. There has to be some private moments that
people have between themselves, and this was not one that
needed to be shared even a little bit.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Nope, and not even not even a little bit. I mean,
but it's the aftermath so to day that is disgusting enough.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
But yeah, so I guess so I'm thinking, like, I
guess maybe at some point they decided that they were
going to go through with it, and then they decided
that they they weren't.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
I guess because the I mean, let me, I would
like to just quickly fact check this since hold on
which basically how far along she was exactly, because I
have seen different reports. I've seen four months, I've seen
five months. I would like to see.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Because I think that the reports were saying it was
she was over twenty one weeks. I kept saying, and
I'm like, well, what's over twenty one weeks?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Like forty weeks? Is also over twenty one?
Speaker 1 (48:21):
No, this says twenty one weeks when they that's what
it says, twenty but that I thought you couldn't do
it after two Yeah, they're saying twenty one almost twenty
two weeks. I just didn't think you could do it after.
I mean, you can have your baby's viable at twenty
four weeks, which is insane. Three weeks later you could
have a living baby. My friend at church had a
(48:44):
baby at twenty two weeks and he is a healthy
young man today, which is like wild wild, Sorry not
twenty two weeks. I'm sorry, twenty four weeks. I take
it back, but still like.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
I think there's I think there was the youngest, the
youngest baby that was ever viable, like twenty two weeks,
like in history but rare. Yeah, so this is what
I think happened. Then I think that they they found
out this genetic testing and then at you know, at
twenty weeks, they do your anatomy scan and at that
(49:15):
time they might have I don't know if they saw anything,
because they could see certain things definitely, like the nukel
thickness of the neck would would be like more indicative
if they were going to have more problems because they're
down is also a spectrum, you know what I mean?
And yeah, I guess and whatever. Like I'm not going
(49:37):
to judge them on whatever decision they wanted to do,
like that's kind of their problem and it's their you know.
I'm more like, if you decide, I actually know two
different people that did that and decided to do that,
but they didn't go online and like try to get
attention for it exactly. That's why I'm annoyed by it.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Oh same, and listen, I have my thoughts on you know,
I don't know them as people. I don't know them personally,
so you know, I have also kept my opinions about
their decision to myself. However, when that came out, I
was basically crying. I was served all this content all
day with the cutest kids that had down syndrome, and
(50:19):
I was just like, why is this happening? Why am
I like getting served as content? Right? But I don't
say anything about it. What I'm talking about is the
same as you. Because Jesse Ridgeway the next day was like, oh,
the internet was mean to me. Oh my gosh, I
shared this decision. My wife and I are going through it,
and the internet is and it's just like.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, I mean they personally, yeah, like they probably were
just like what we decided to terminate the pregnancy, and
this and that and and my whole thing was because,
especially because they had to already tell the whole world
that they had this genetic test. They could have simply
did a post and said we lost the baby. We
(51:03):
appreciate privacy at this time, and nobody would have said anything.
It's really none of anybody's business what they did. And
if anything in this world, anybody, you're a reporter, you
could find out anything about anybody. You can't find out
somebody's private medical information. It's like the only thing in
this world that is private. They could have lied, they
(51:25):
could have said whatever. Nobody ever would have known it.
The people that treating them in the hospital will be like,
they're fucking liars. They can't say anything, right, I know,
And that's it. And it would have been swept under
the rug.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
And think about it. All these people seem to want
our clicks, views, subs. If you think about that, putting
a post out like that, taking a week to yourself
when you re emerge, think of all the people that
are gonna come flogging to you, that are gonna come
clicking and subscribing to you, being like are you okay?
You know you're back. We're so happy you're back. We
(51:58):
hope you were. Like it's just like, you know, I understand.
I go through things where I'm like, oh, I should
have done this, I should have done that knowing the outcome.
But the fact that they were so shocked that the
entire Internet wasn't like, ah, we support you guys, like
we're so supportive of you, Like.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
No, I actually think that this is a joint Like really,
I I can't say, like I cansider myself pro life,
like for myself, like I'm not I willn't do something
like that, but like I'm pro choice for other people
because I don't get I don't have to raise their
kids or pay for them and I don't give a shit.
Do whatever you want to do, right, And I was
discussed like disgusted by this. I know lots of people
(52:41):
who are pro choice that are just kind of like
you don't. This is a gross way of handling it
in general.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
This is because you want sympathy for what your decision,
and it's kind of like you realize this topic is divided.
Let's say fifty to fifty pro you know what I mean. Like,
let's say fifty to fifty, what do you think the
other fifty percent are gonna come at you and say, like,
what did you expect? Like what truly? And I don't
(53:09):
know if you saw the clip, but there's a clip
that's going around of him where he's reading part of
a chat and someone said, and I don't I have
a feeling this clip is from like people dig up
old clips, you know what I mean, Like they dig
up old clips whatever. I don't think this is from
anything recent if I had to guess, But I don't know.
(53:29):
But someone asked something about him being aborted, and he goes, yeah,
of course, I'm glad my dad didn't abort me. I'm normal.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Oh I saw that, And I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
That's got to be old, right, Like that can't be
That's got to be a vintage clip.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
I hope it is, but he's been posting since that.
Like at that time when everyone attacked you, you think you
would like pull back for a couple of weeks and
just be like, let me let this just like iron
itself out. And he's just like so defensive still and
I don't know, just like the whole way that it's
being handles grow. And then there's like this whole other
aspect that people are like, no, this like she was
(54:04):
never pregnant, because I do see a lot they're posting
a lot of video of when they did these announcements,
and like she is supposed to be twenty some weeks
and she's like flat as a board. I know some
people can be like that, so I don't want to.
I was.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
I was pretty just fat at twenty I didn't like show.
I didn't show until twenty four weeks pretty much, so
really get that.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
Yeah, I mean I showed at like ten weeks.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Wait, really my had friends like that. I just thought wider,
but I definitely looked fat. It was not.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
But there's like some there's like some weightlifter chicks that
are like on Instagram and it'll say they're thirty six
weeks pregnant and I'm like, really, there's like, seriously, you're
pregnant right now.
Speaker 3 (54:45):
So yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
I don't want to say that one hundred percent, but
just based upon their content of making up like these
dramatic stories and they are getting like so many views
and people. Now I don't even want to click on
it because I don't even want to give them the view.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Wait, I agree, And also because they did this, like
I didn't know who he was before Jesse. I had
no clue, and now TMZ's you know, once TMZ starts
posting you, they're going to continue with the story for
the most part if it's ongoing. So now they're getting
all this free publicity. And so you're right, I don't know.
We live in a sick, sick world. And again I'm
(55:23):
not It's funny. I even knew when I posted when
I retweeted Ridgeway, initially I said nothing about their decision, Nicole.
I wasn't even being like saying anything about them terminating
at twenty one weeks. Nothing. All I said was like,
I'm just horrified that these people want to be victims
(55:44):
because the Internet's not being nice to them. I was horrified,
and I even said to myself, I'm going to get
shit for this post. I expect shit on any post
that is cut and dry whatever, and I did. People
were coming at me being like, how dare you question
their decision? And I'm like, looking for where I question
the decision.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
I questioned their decision to post any of this. That's
the only decision I question.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Their decision to you know what I mean, yeah, to
post there, you know. And I'm like, people are just
gonna read what they want to read. They're gonna you know, so.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
And I was saying, like when I was making these comments,
I'm like, it's like a legit, like a Deity Blanchard
case of like munch House and by proxy, like you're
you put yourself in this situation and now you want
attention for it. Your kid was sick quote unquote, which
try so many twenty one, you decided to get an abortion,
(56:39):
and now you want attention for it.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
Like it's gross, It's just so gross.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Yeah, some things need to be sacred. I just can't.
I cannot imagine. I just I can't, especially now that
we're living in a culture where I never thought this
would be the case. But I mean, we're living in
a culture Nicole, and it makes me actually want to cry,
where like someone dies and then someone on the internet
takes like the worst thing about this person and just
(57:05):
puts it out there and says, good, I'm glad they're dead. Yeah,
you know, while this person still has family, this person
cannot you know, stick up for themselves anymore. Cannot It's
just like that was.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
Your boy, that was your boy Luigi, that started it,
That was the I feel like that was where it changed.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah, and then you know he's not my boy. For
those are that don't know me, I just cover that
case extensively, and I'm so sick of it, to be honest,
Like I'm telling you the it's the dramatics that have
happened outside of the courtroom, with all the press passes.
It's just gotten to be too much. And a lot
of the people that support Luigi, they they just unbiased.
(57:48):
Journalism is not a thing, okay. If you report exactly
what happens, if you do your job exactly, that's still
not enough. And you still are anti Luigi. I can't
even tell you. I just report what's going on inside
the courtroom. And I'm an anti Luigi journalist. I mean, yeah,
I'm anti murderer, I mean, but like yeah, sure, but
like I just I don't have any I don't care
about this kid either way, you know what I mean.
(58:10):
I have no nothing helps me to make him look bad,
nothing helps me to make the prosecution look good. I
just report what's going on.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
So, so before we wrap it up, just real quick
crime con It was.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
This the first time that you went?
Speaker 1 (58:24):
This was my second.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Oh you went? What what year? What year did you
go before?
Speaker 1 (58:29):
Uh not? I went to tennis Nashville. Yeah it was Nashville.
Oh okay, cool, that was twenty twenty three. I think no,
four four?
Speaker 3 (58:38):
Yeah, yeah, okay cool.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
So what did you I didn't know you then, so like, no,
I think I definitely know.
Speaker 3 (58:43):
It sucks.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
I just met you after that. I know. No. Vegas
was great. I think it's just like it was extra
exhausting because it's Vegas and you just seemingly can't go
to bed because everything's open. When you go back to
your hotel, it's like you see people that you know
and that you you know, and you're just like, okay, sure,
I'll gamble with you for a little bit. Why not.
(59:06):
I woke up on Sunday morning. I'll just I killed
so many brain cells. But Garret Goes, who owns LA
mag we were we were there and he's like, we
need to do a podcast at like eight am. I mean,
like Nicole, I sorry, Michelle's my coworker. I'm like, I
had not really I slept for two hours and we
did a podcast and I still can't watch it. Didn't
(59:28):
I told you?
Speaker 2 (59:29):
Did I ever tell you this phenomenon that everyone calls
me Michelle?
Speaker 1 (59:33):
No?
Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, like my entire my entire life. No, I'm serious.
It's so weird, Like since I've been a child.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
I've been I was talking to my coworker Michelle right
before this. That's why I that's so weird.
Speaker 2 (59:47):
One of the pathologists I used to work with, like
literally just it became such a joke.
Speaker 3 (59:51):
She was like Michelle, like that was my name.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
Whenever she saw me, she'd be like, hey Michelle, Oh
my god, yeah, no I have it's funny anyway.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
Anyway, yeah, no, anyway, but no, it was. It was great.
I will say the I hadn't really seen hate for
crime con until this year when I had posted I
was there, I was a lot of comments are popping
up about you know, I guess exploiting crime victims and stuff,
(01:00:18):
and I was like, oh no, no, no, And I
was like, let me show everybody this is absolutely not
what it's about. And so I made sure to go
and I you know, promoted and and showed everybody that
families of missing persons of you know, who want to
find out what happened to their loved one, they are
there begging for help. They love crime con. I mean
(01:00:42):
Gabby Patito's dad Joe, he loves crime con so he
can just spread the word about domestic violence and how
to help. And it's it really is. It's a great weekend.
It really is a great weekend and it does help
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah, I think that sometimes I got a little bit
of a bad rep like in all our world of
forensics too, as being like exploitive years ago, like and
now everybody's just kind of like, no, this is like
a great education event and it's you know, especially if
you're a victim of crime, I would think that you
want to be surrounded by people that are invested in
your case and like really want to get justice for
(01:01:18):
you or help you, like help it not happen to
other people.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
I agree I totally agree, and I feel like I
learn a lot. They have all these panels and it
just was Yeah, it was. It was cool, it was
it was a great weekend. They're doing it in Orlando
next year, so I think that's better. It's closer. It's
like a three hour plane bed over like five and
no time change and we can go to bed at
(01:01:42):
a normal hour and not or me anyway because I
have FOMO. So I feel like I'm missing Blackjack and
I'm I just I'm awful.
Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
So yeah, I'm like opposite.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
When I'm at crime Con, it's like I'm such a
nervous wreck about my lectures that I just sit in
my room like a total weirdo like the whole time
and then I can finally relax. But it's usually like
I'm leaving the next morning.
Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Okay, But you're different.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
You're I'm afraid like you actually.
Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Are like a medical professional with actual, like important things
to say. I just like stick around the boots and
like the no. We have very different experiences, so I
don't blame you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Oh stop, all right, Well are you working on anything
or where can everybody reach you?
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Yes? You can find most of my stories on lamag
dot com. You can follow me on x comlin Underscore Lauren.
You can also follow I kind of two YouTube channels.
I run the La mag YouTube Los Angeles Magazine videos
and also Pop Crime TV. So I'm constantly updating those
boots on the ground. I am your boots on the
ground for all of the New York cases. Yeah, and
(01:02:48):
you a foe.
Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
All right, Well, thanks so much for filling in for Maria.
Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
She will appreciate it. She misses you too.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
I really do. I want to come see you guys
and come see baby.
Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Yes, oh my god, yes, you have to come over.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
And so cute, so little, so cute. Wait, don't you
feel like like I just told you my kids had
like neurovirus and lice, Like I want to like put
my kids wrap them in plastic sheets before I even
come near your house, or like you're serious.
Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
We're not those kind of people.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
I've raised them to be, like you're human, like you're
going to be around this and stuff. But she, you know,
she had gestational diabetes, so I think that they were
bracing her for having this big baby. And he comes
out and he's like six pounds and seven ounce of
six seven. The kids were really excited about that. Yeah,
so stupid.
Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Wait how big were your kids? Were they?
Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Lillian was eight something and LULUs nines or I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Yeah, I just like don't even care.
Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
We have like solid kids. Both my kids are like
eight and a half nine pounds, So that's funny.
Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Yeah, Like, but it was good.
Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
They slept pretty good because of that, like they you know, but.
Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
It totally explains why I gained like eighty with one
and sixty with another.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Five.
Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Yeah. Remember yeah, and you're like a tiny little thing.
Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
No, it's hard to lose it too. I'm like, what
this is like bread? People say, breastfeeding, you lose it
live live? Lie. No you don't, No, you don't anyway.
Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
All right, Well thanks, we'll see you all.
Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Right, Thank you, bye bye.
Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Thank you for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder,
my training is as a pathologists assistant. I have a
master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.
I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed
or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of
a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social
(01:04:51):
media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based
on my experience working in pathology so they can make
healthier decisions for guarding their life and well being. Always
remember that science is changing every day and the opinions
expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge of
those subjects at the time of publication. If you are
(01:05:12):
having a medical problem, have a medical question, or having
a medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an
urgent care center, emergency room.
Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Or hospital.
Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks
Elvis Duran and the Morning Show ON DEMAND News
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Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.