January 20, 2026 • 41 mins
This week, Tommy is joined by actor and director Tyler James Williams, best known for his Emmy-winning role as Gregory Eddie on ABC’s Abbott Elementary. From his early start as a child actor to becoming one of the most respected performers on television today, Tyler has built a career defined by discipline, range, and creative intention. Now, with season five of Abbott Elementary underway, he continues to expand his impact both on-screen and behind the camera.
Tyler opens up about his approach to longevity in Hollywood, the lessons he learned growing up in the industry, and the boundaries he’s set to protect his personal life. He also dives into Gregory Eddie—how the character has evolved, why subtlety is key to the role, and how Abbott Elementary continues to resonate with audiences in unexpected, real-world ways. Plus, Tyler reflects on his transition into directing, the challenges of helming one of the show’s most ambitious episodes, and why staying creatively fulfilled matters more to him now than ever before.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me,
Tommy de Dario. My guest today is the very brilliant
Tyler James Williams, who is one of those actors who
has the gift of saying so much without saying anything
at all. My man has earned a critical acclaim for
his starring role as Gregory on Abbot Elementary Now. I
(00:21):
describe Abbot as a show that gives a gentle hug
to the world at a time when people just want
to feel comforted, and Gregory is a character that does
just that, all while providing so many laughs and so
many smiles. We are halfway through season five and Tyler
is sitting down with me to reflect on his own journey.
We are learning so much more about the man who
(00:41):
has been bringing you joy for so many years. Let's
see if today we can get Tyler to say something
that he has never said before. Tyler James Williams, how
are you, my man?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm good? How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I am good? Do you always walk around looking this fly?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I tried to most of my time going to and
from set and sweatpants. Whenever I'm not doing that, I
try to give the people something.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, you want to feel good. Yeah, you want to
feel I see you on the carpets, man, you're always
trying some pose, wearing something first.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Man, It's another one of those things where it's like,
when I'm not in Gregory Eddie, it's nice to put
something else on and then feel it flow and and
enjoy the night and that.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, well, rock on, man, you're doing it. You're doing it. Like,
we have a lot to get into today. I think
you were one of these artists that brings so much
joy to so many people, and you've been doing it
for years and we have a lot to celebrate. But
we're going to start by maybe the most pressing question
of your entire career. Okay, what do you really think
about warm fruit?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Really? In the right situations. I'm for it. We do
overuse it sometimes, we definitely do too much. We sometimes
do too much. I love a pie. I love a
really great pie, but there's sometimes the feelings I'm not
like the other day I saw like strawberry pie is
a thing, and I'm like, I don't think that that
(02:05):
one was supposed to be warmed. I don't think we
were here for that. I'm also like a lot of
the berries. I'm not with it. No, I'm not. I'm
not with it. But an apple, I'm having a great
time a cherry even. Hey, we're having a good time. Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
But we can stop there, all right, we can stop right.
I feel that I feel that I'm not. I'm not
totally sure how I feel. But that's one of the
many hang ups that your character Gregory has.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
No are you possibly Gregory alined in this?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, I don't think I love warm fry. Oh really,
I love warm fruit.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, I'm gonna go with the solid. No, okay, a
solid now.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
All right, So it was for you, That line is
for you, I felt.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I felt very If you have a line coming up
in any of the seasons about condiments, I have a
very hard no about condiments. No, No, we don't do condiment.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
My brother is like that. I don't get that, and
I've never understood it. He's always eaten like a dry hamburger,
and I thought, yeah, when he was a child like that,
like a like you might die. I thought like it
was like a hazard, or you could throw a piece
of cheese on it. But a condiment, I don't get it.
It covers up the food is intended to taste like
I just don't get to catch up. Ooh for the
(03:12):
worst mustard. Oh no, no, no, not even like a
deli must No. Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I know I have a few hang ups like your
character has. Okay, so I can't respect it, I can relate.
What do you think is your biggest hang up in
relation to to Gregor of your on your own?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, with Gregory, for sure, I mean his inability to
be comfortable. I need him to work on that a
little bit because I can feel it in my body. Yeah,
his inability to be comfortable in any given situation. I
feel like it's very foreign to me in a way.
I think I've been doing this for so long. I've
(03:47):
kind of learned to create my own comfortable space. And
it serves your stress level, well, it serves your life well,
he needs that at the very least.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah. Interesting, while you created something that just entertains us
and entertains this beyond. It's so much fun. But of
course you broke onto the scene with everybody hits Christ right,
and it's very hard to go from being a child
actor to an adult actor. Not everybody can do that seamlessly,
and it takes a certain skill set, right, and you've
mentioned that surviving the transition from child actor to adult
(04:21):
actor means starting over, So mentally, how do you start over?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
It's one of those quotes that you see on a
tile on somebody's Instagram story and you're like, okay, whatever,
But it's actually in this situation true where it's like
respect and success is not something that carries over. It's
earned like rent. Every day it's due. And I think
as a child actor a lot of the beginning of
your career can be predicated upon you were a cute kid.
(04:51):
It can be if that's what your situation was. I
think once you turn eighteen, especially when I did, actors
become very good at their jobs. And you're now competing
with people who do this full time. This isn't a
game for them. And I think approaching it as a
brand new artist let you know how hard you need
(05:14):
to work and where it needs to come from. I
think what can inhibit a lot of child actors is, well,
this thing I was doing before worked, so why would
I change it? But it's like, but the game is
completely different now. That's I think the industry changes every
five years anyway, So if you don't approach it as
a new individual career and try to rest on the
(05:35):
laurels of what you did previously, that's the first step
to get caught in the trap.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Oh wow, that makes sense. So is there anything that
you had to unlearn from being a child actor in
order to step into a career as an adult.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I had to unlearn the idea that there's a right
way to do it.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I think as a child, you're trying to please these
people and you wanted to have somebody say good job,
and you did it right. And I think I learned
how to look for that in directors and producers and
writers of like, did I do it right? But being
an artist is different. There isn't necessarily a right way
to do it. Sometimes the answer to a scene or
(06:19):
a take or an intention is the complete wrong decision
that anybody else would make. And I had to learn
how to give myself the freedom to play and not
do it the right way, because as long as I'd
picked the correct choice, all of my reads were going
to be safe, all of the projects I took were
going to be really safe, and I was going to
probably stall out with that safety. Yeah, I think that
(06:43):
that would be it more than anything.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Do you have more confidence than versus now? Or do
you have to find that confidence again because you feel
like as a child do you care less what people think?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oh? No, I feel like you care more as a child.
Every approval is everything to you. I have more confid
is now. And I say this a lot to people.
When somebody doesn't have confidence in themselves, trust them on that.
That means that they haven't built the argument to themselves
yet to be confident. I think we tell people that
you should just be more confident. You should slowly, little
(07:17):
by little, build the argument to yourself so that you
are And I think by taking those risks and not
always looking for the right choice and something, I little
by little built that confidence. But it takes swings. It
takes sometimes swinging and missing. Yeah, but you learn to
trust yourself in that process.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well, what an epic career you have, then? What an
epic career you have? Now? Add that elementary like I
said earlier, is it's something that brings so much joy.
It's a staple in so many households. People just love
it so much. The fact that you can get together
with people that you love and watch it and smile
and enjoy something in a crazy world is really nice.
I have so many questions about you and your role
(07:58):
and your process. I guess the first one is how
much is in prov versus how much is following a script?
Ninety eight percent of it is scripted, even the fourth wall,
like breaking the fourth wall and looking in a camera.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
That's with the two percent. I'm in the writer's room
knows it, and I've said it multiple times. They do
a really good job of this. One of my biggest
pet peeves is if I see a look in a script,
because you can't dictate how the character is going to
feel until we're there, and it's not a look that's
(08:38):
paced for comedic effect. It's feeling caught.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
These are regular human beings who have a camera crew
around them that they're aware of. But there are gonna
be times where, in living your natural, authentic life, you
feel more caught than others. So putting them in there
for comedic effect actually makes it really contrived. It's exactly
where you think it would be. I've been in, however,
(09:05):
many episodes we've done now and directed to, and every
single time you try to tell an actor where to
put a look, it's going to feel like you put
it there if they find it organically and they let it,
they let the situation motivated. Those are the ones where
you get the laughs from. Those are the ones the
people that people talk the ones that people talk about
that are like, I guess what would be considered iconic
(09:28):
were never scripted.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Wow? Yeah wow. So fourth wall stuff is pretty much
trusting your intuition and acting on it.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, you're if you're in the character enough, they'll tell
you where to put it. The character will inform that feeling.
If you let the camera operators become other people in
this scene, then it'll start to give it to you.
And there's always something behind it. Once you build relationships
with individual cameras as well, that creates something in there.
(09:57):
It's very like it's a magic that you can't go
this line, this line. Look, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So when you're seeing a script and there's instructions, you know,
let's say Gregory looks at her sarcastically, where Gregory looks
upset after a line has said, you don't really respond
to that. You want to feel it on your own.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, I'll get that informs me of where like we're
trying to get to in the scene, like it's just
contextual clues, but I'm not putting it there, you know.
It's like, if it's there, I'm definitely not putting it
there now, Like that's I have to find another way
to do it. And sometimes it's for like the studio
when they read the script and know where the act
breaks are going to be right and like, okay, this
(10:39):
is where we go out on this scene. But at
least for me as an artist individually, I'm definitely not
putting it wherever you wrote it.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That's so interesting. I love it. I love getting in
the mind of what you guys do because it's not
easy and you have to have a level of confidence
to be able to act on your intuition and do
two things like that.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, at some point, and quinc has talked about this
a bit, you share ownership of the character with the
writer's room. We've been in these characters for five years now.
We know what feels right and doesn't feel right living
in their skin. So at this point we're co parenting
these characters. And there is something really nice when we
(11:20):
have these moments where it's like I don't know about
that we have to take each other seriously in that
moment and go, you care about this characters as much
as I do, and you can feel them just as
much as I do. But we have to decide where
these things feel authentic and they can't just be words
on a page. And that's what's really nice about where
we are now in season five is there is this
(11:40):
co ownership that we all feel with these characters and
with this story.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So, yeah, five seasons in. What keeps it exciting for you?
What keeps you wanting to come back and do more
and more seasons?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Randall Einhorn, one of our EPs and our usual director,
says that our rules keep us honest. I think the
rules of our world keep it exciting. I think there's
certain things that many people don't think about that we
just don't do, and we don't break we break the
fourth wall, but even how we do that and when
we do that is very specific, and I think the
(12:16):
writers do a really good job of taking these characters
that people have fallen in love with and and found
compelling and throwing them into the craziest situations possible. Right now,
we're in a story where the school is in them mall.
That's how you keep a show alive. You take these
characters who have just found enough comfort and stability and
(12:37):
you rip that out from under them again, and you
see how they handle that and how they've matured over time.
I also get a chance to work with some of
the best actors in the world. And when we all
get up very early in the morning, and we're not
all good at that, like I'm particularly bad at that,
but when we all touch down and we're on set
(12:58):
for the first time and were for the first time,
there's an energy that starts moving and everybody wakes up
and everyone's ready to go. And I think that's a
big part of a show lasting a long time, is
you need everybody in your cast to be on the
same page with what type of show we're trying to
make and what is the caliber which we're trying to.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Work And we love a little romance. Yeah, and Gregory
Gregory keeps us on our toes.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Man.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I feel like Gregory is the ultimate yearner, right, And
it's the question of him e Janeine, will they won't they?
I mean, what are your thoughts? Do you think they'll
be in game? Do you want them to be in
end game. Are you invested in that?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I am very invested in it, but I'm invested in
the journey being just as good as the destination. I
was one of those people who when I watched romantic
comedies and things, there was this kind of like suspension
of this belief that you had to go into of
being like oh, and then they figure it out and
they're fine. I like walking through the things that they
(13:55):
have to figure out, because when our everyday lives, it's
not that linear, like how up and down they've kind
of been, and when an issue comes up, you watch
it affect them individually and then they have to address
it together. That's what I feel like, generationally, we need
more of everything's complicated. It's not you know, we're not
(14:15):
our parents or grandparents' generation where you meet somebody and
then that's it and y'all together forever. This is a
modern day love story, and it's got. As much as
it frustrates people, I love it because your dating life
is frustrating too. Yeah, this is kind of where we're
on the right track.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Are you rooting for them?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah? Well I can't not root for Gregory. I think
as an actor, if you're not rooting for your character,
you're doing them a disservice. I'm definitely rooting for the
two of them, but I also don't feel like in
rooting for them, I want to make their route easy either.
I want their relationship to be strong, and sometimes it
(14:55):
needs to be tested for that to be the case.
So yeah, I'm always rooting for them, but I'm rooting
for them to be their best selves and that's gonna
take going through fires.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Sometimes you're the type of guy that likes a slow burn,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, bring it on. That's dope because then, like,
I don't want something that burns hot and fast. Yeah yeah,
because then you burns out and they're like, well what happened?
That slow burn is what you build life on top of.
That's what gets me excited, gets me.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Out of bed in the morning, And it's relatable to
your point. People are going through real life relationships like
that and they look at it and say, oh my god,
it's not just me. They feel reflected by the art,
which is really cool. And I love that Abbot as
a show people very much are growing up with and
(15:44):
they're hitting pivotal moments in their life watching and it's
just such a part of their own journey. Do you
feel that working on the show like whoa people really are?
Like growing up with us?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah. I was just talking about we're doing season five
and we happen to be tied to twenty twenty because
of when we started. We started in the middle of
the pandemic, to see where the world was five years
ago versus where we are now, and having this show
be the way I mark that time. My life is different,
(16:16):
everyone around me life is different. The world that we
thought we were in pre pandemic is definitely not the
world that we're in now. It's been nice to grow
with people at the same rate, and I think it's
something that has been the case in my career because
I started so young as well. I have people who
(16:37):
were teens when I was a teen and watching me
on TV who are now we're in our thirties and
we're trying to find stability in our life. It's I
think you need those shows, and then I think also
actors to mark those like major moments in your life
to remember, I was watching this show at this time
(17:00):
figuring out whatever that was. Everybody had their Pandemic watch
right that they were like, and I got through these
three months just binging this show. I think that's important
when you talk about a career with longevity. You need
to be able to be a marker for people along
the road.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And I love that it's a show on traditional broadcast. Yes,
you can watch it on streaming, but it's on broadcasts
and it still continues to crush it.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, it's a model that worked for a reason.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think we got really quick to abandon it once
streaming became a thing and it was like, well, now
we can do anything that we want. But as great
as that is, there's something about being in people's households
every week that's different. You build different relationships with them,
their relationship to the show becomes different. That's why it
becomes a comfort watch ten fifteen years later. You're not
(17:49):
just watching it because you enjoy it. You're watching it
because you got used to these people being in your house.
You miss them. The relationship between and viewer changes very rapidly.
That to me, is an art form in itself.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Let's talk about future Gregory for a minute. Okay, do
you want him to become principal?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I don't know, I really don't know. I want him
to have everything that he always dreamed of, but I
also want him to challenge the idea of his dreams
at the same time, do you really want this or
was this something that to you meant I'm successful? And
(18:37):
I think that's something that generationally we're all kind of
grappling with right now. Is we were sold you go
to college, you get the house, you get the car,
you have the kids, you have all the things. And
then as we became adults, those things went out the window, yeah,
or they changed significantly. We now have to redefine success
for ourselves and it's a work that we not only
(18:58):
have to do, but we get to do. And I
hope he does that. I hope that if he does
become principal, it's because it's one hundred percent what he wants.
But if that's not the case, I don't want him
to have it. I want him to if he finds
love in teaching right now and being more on the
ground with the kids and actively affecting their lives, and
(19:18):
that feels purposeful to him. I hope that he reaches
a level of maturity to say I don't need the.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Title right right, and dreams change over time.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Oh what they do.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So the question is has his dream changed, su or not?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I think he hasn't really had the time to consider that,
and that's what I'm hoping we allow him the time
to do really consider if that's still what he wants.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Hmmm, all right, we'll have to see. By season twenty three,
there we go. Maybe we'll find out by then. Why
have we not had an epic blooper reel because I
don't think one's ever been dropped.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You haven't had a blooper reel, but you've definitely had
blooper takes.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
We've had takes, but it's like a big fat blooper
reel of all the season since I know you guys
do some crazy things. Oh yeah, no, we're waiting to
see them for sure, Like for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I think we got really good at keeping things together,
so there's not as much blooper because we almost lost
whole scenes when Cheryl comes in in season one and
she says, sweet Baby Jesus in the grown room two,
my desks have been desks. That was not scripted. She
walked in and said that. And if you look at
(20:27):
the other takes of the other cameras, Quentin I broke immediately,
but we needed to keep that take. It's like, so
we kept Cheryl's angle of it. But after I remember
after that it was like kind of a moment for
us that we had to go, all right, everybody be
on your stuff because you may just walk in and
hear something and we don't want to lose this take.
So part of it has been we've been really efficient.
(20:49):
But I wouldn't be surprised if by the time we're done,
somebody in editing goes okay and then just drops something,
whether it's with our consent or not, right, I wouldn't
be surprised.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
All Right, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. You also
are taking on the role of director. Yeah, you did
season four, of course you directed, You've directed this season
as well. What do you have to shift in your
mind and your responsibilities when you go from stepping you know,
in front of the camera to behind the camera.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I'm no longer just concerned about my performance. I'm kind
of concerned about everything. It can be a lot to
deal with. Mentally, I'm usually finding myself in a scene,
being present with somebody while also watching their performance at
the same time and saving notes from that performance, and
(21:38):
then going back after that take and watching it on
playback and making sure camera got it yeah, and then
trying to marry those two things together. There's things that
I find that actors are doing when I'm face to
face with somebody up close that I don't know if
you would be able to see from watching in the
monitors in the back. So I'm able to talk to
camera and say there's something that they're doing here that
(21:59):
I don't think that we're getting and we're catching. But
it's being concerned about the story and the show as
a whole and not just your performance, which is a
lot to deal with. But I think I work again
with really great actors who I can trust, really great
A camera operators who I can trust, great lighting department
(22:19):
that I can trust. So as much as I'm concerned
about it, I can always lean back on the fact
that they're good at their job. Yea, and I can
trust them.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah yeah. Are you direct to anything else this season?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
No? No, no, no. I love it. Not that I don't,
but I feel like for what it takes and somehow
the way it gets timed, I always get really big episodes,
and Science Fair was a huge episode this next one
is just as big. I only have one in me
per year. It feels like because it takes. You know,
(22:50):
I'm not just shooting the week that I'm shooting. I'm
in prep three weeks prior while still shooting the other episodes,
and then I'm in editing two weeks after while still
shooting the other episodes. So it's all in all, like
a it takes for the span of like six or
seven episodes for me actually just to get this one done.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Wow yeow. And you know you you're leading a show
with an ensemble casts. You strike me as someone that
really wants to focus on the job you have rather
than be stretched in twenty five different positions.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I never wanted to be a jack of all trades
but a master of none. M That was one of
my biggest fears. I think as a child, you get
taught you can do this, you can sing, you can dance,
you can act, you can but then at some point
you get lost in the sauce a bit, and now
you're doing a bunch of things and you're not doing
any of them well, but you're doing them right. And
that's something I always wanted to avoid. So I only
(23:43):
want to take on exactly what I can do. The
episodes by themselves stretch me already. I want to do
one really good episode a season. I'm good with that.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah. It's good to know what you do and don't
want and what your threshold is, right, because it's easy
in this business to be pulled in a million directions
and feel like you have to be pulled in a
million directions.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You get to say I don't have the bandwidth. Yeah,
and I think everyone in the situation would be happier
with it if you did. The first episode I was
assigned this year was the one that just aired last week,
and it was the school moving into the mall for
the first time. And I sat down with Randall Einhorn,
who ended up directing the episode, and I was like,
(24:24):
as an actor, we're filling out a new space, we're
establishing a new space. There's a lot going on. I
feel like you should take this one. And I remember
having to have that conversation and go, this has to
be the mature decision. This is not an ego call.
This is for the story. It's better if you established
the space and I focus on just feeling the space
out as an actor and I'll take the one right
(24:45):
after it. And that's hopefully what people, when they learn
their limitations, they can do for nominally themselves with the
projects they work on.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, and that's how you have longevity, right, that's the
long game, right, So it's good on you for that.
Do you know that when you google your name, it
says American actor and rapper. So music, of course, is
something that you play around with and even though you
don't release it, you still write bars you say, we'll
(25:15):
never ever see the light of day. So what are
you enjoying about doing that and just kind of messing around?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It goes into what I was saying before. When you're young,
you're taught, If you're talented, you better use it and
find a way to muse it to make money. This
I just do because I like to do it, and
I think I decided at some point that I wasn't
going to do it professionally because I needed something that
I could just do and like to do. The bar
(25:42):
for myself is very high, and I know that I
put that on myself even with you know, was talking
to producers about my episode and they're like it's great,
and I'm like, there are things in there. I don't
like the stuff that I wish I had another take,
and it's I can't have that for every art form
that I indulge in. I think sometimes you just need
(26:04):
to make art for the sake of making art and
leave it there and go, this is good. I like
the way this is, the way this is. I don't
need to put it out and release it. And I
think at some point I took hip hop back for me.
I'm going to keep this one. I'm not going to
get especially as the industry changed and streaming became so
much a part of things, and artists now are finding
(26:25):
it harder to financially stay in a good place with
releasing music. I didn't want to get caught up in
that game. I wanted to make stuff that I like
to hear and that I like to write, not expressed myself,
but that I didn't feel pressure to monetize.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Right right, It's real.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
It's for me.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
You're sitting on like eight thousand, Oh my.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Oh, you have no idea. It's like notebooks full of stuff,
but it maybe like a project comes up at some
point where it like, oh I have a use for
these now. But I kind of like I like them
sitting there, like going back and revisiting them and seeing
the growth over time and seeing where my head was
at it. So there's also another thing with music is
like it's so personal. Yah, and I may not always
(27:05):
be in the same place I was when I wrote this.
It's still good, but I'm not there anymore, and I
can now appreciate it without I don't know, feeling that
sense of what now I think people call cringe and
immaturity of looking back on something and like, I've definitely
had stuff I've written fresh out of a breakup and
I look back on now and like, heal yourself, work
on that, go talk to somebody. I'm happy that I
(27:28):
have that space to do that without having to deal
with it going out into the world.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, it's for you and it's
important to have that. Yeah, you know, it doesn't as
much as people want to see it. Yeah, I get
it and I understand it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Part of also being an artist and having a relationship
with your audience, much like with kids, is knowing what
you can give them and what you can't.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
And I think that I have to limit myself in
a way and limit what I give people because that
keeps our relationships strong.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You strike me as a very
grounded person. And we started talking a little bit about
success earlier, and you're somebody from the outside who has
had tremendous success, right And when you think about where
you are in your life now, how do you define success?
Do you think success means freedom? Does it mean peace?
(28:20):
Does it mean fame?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I pick a word at the top of every year
that I want to be the thing that I'm going
after this year, and freedom was the word I chose
this year. Really, yeah, success is freedom for me right now? Freedom.
I think I spent a lot of time doing what
I had to do to sustain a career, right to
(28:44):
keep momentum, going to play the game to a certain extent,
because so much of the industry, and you know, is political,
and you have to make the moves that you have
to make when you have to make them. This will
be my thirtieth year in the industry. I want freedom
to just be. It's why I moved back to New
(29:06):
York and left LA I needed. I know that whatever
is coming for me next, I'm gonna find in that
freedom that I can feel. I know that I'll find
the next great thing in exploring that freedom. But it's
a freedom that I have to fight for. And I
(29:28):
think it's not just freedom in the sense of being
able to go outside, but mental freedom as well, being
able to decompress and tap out of the system. Whenever
you see an actor and you're like, where have they been?
Sometimes it's just I'm chasing freedom. I gotta free myself
from it mentally and then I'll be back. And I
(29:48):
think there's an aspect of that that I'm heading into.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Currently that must be feeling.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's nice, it's nice, it's hard, though. Freedom is something
you have to fight for in every sense of the word,
and you're going to be challenged each step along the way,
and a lot of times it's you that's stopping you
from having the freedom. And that's what I'm finding now
is that I'm challenging myself to question, why do I
feel like I need to do this because I'm asking
(30:15):
for freedom and I'm the only one stopping me from
having it.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right. Well, I also think it's our innate sensibility of
needing to please other people and putting their needs above you,
above ours, right, and that's just human and to your point,
it's a fight. It's a fight to be like no, no, no,
I need to remember what I want, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
One hundred percent, And I would say that for anybody.
If you've everyone's like, oh, why wasn't he at this thing?
I was chasing freedom more than likely freedom.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I like that for twenty twenty six freedom, freedom and
freedom in to your point earlier, setting boundaries that need
to be set right, like you're I feel like you
do put a lot out there, and you've shared a
lot about your life, about your health and about things
like that, but you also do have a boundary where
you don't reveal everything. Was that a conscious choice you
made early in your career?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
For sure? I think one of the things I want
the freedom to do is make mistakes. And I'm aware
more than most people because I've always been a public
figure that when you give too much, that thing is
now going to be judged. Although you are a human
being in process, that's not how it's going to be seen.
(31:26):
You need to be aware of the platform that you have.
So if you're aware that you're in process, that means
you can't show everybody everything because then you're inhibiting your
own evolution. I want to be able to grow and
make because ultimately, some of the best performances I've ever
given came off of the back of a mistake I
made five ten years prior, where I learned from it
and remembered where I was at that time. So when
(31:48):
the character it was their time to make it, I
could give it to you authentically and also know where
they're going to go and get out of that. I
think eventually, hopefully, if you're smart, you learn that the
boundaries don't keep people out, it keeps you in. And
that's what I love about it. That's what I love
about this relationship that I've been able to build up
(32:09):
my audience over time, which is I think they know,
which is like, I'm gonna give you everything that I got,
but you know, don't cross certain lines with me. Yeah,
I can feel it when people approach me on the street.
I'm trying to be as normal as a human being
as possible, So don't expect my relationships to be part
of my economy. So they'll date to who I want
(32:33):
and have a great time, and then if it doesn't
work out, it doesn't work out. Cool, But that doesn't
mean I need to serve it up on a silver
platter to you as part of my career. That's not
what I'm here for.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Right in an industry where it's almost celebrated to be
super accessible and put so much out there, especially with
social media, do you feel like it's ever costed you
opportunities or it's almost gained you or just no effect.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I feel like it always costs you something you don't
put out without it taking something from you. And I
was very I did pretty much my arm tied behind
my back to get onto social media when we were
promoting an indie film called Dear White People, And when
you're doing indie film, it's hard to get people to
see something because there's no big pr arm behind it.
(33:21):
So they were like, you have a following and we
should probably use you for that, and I was like, okay, fine.
But I was always aware that the more that I gave,
the less I would have. And thankfully the industry has
I think, stayed around with me long enough to understand
that there's certain things that I'm just not gonna do,
(33:42):
so it hasn't cost me anything. But I am very
measured in what I put out. Like I've talked about
a lot of stuff with my health, not just as
a way to speak for other people and give them
a beacon if they're going through it at the same time,
but also as a way for people to know, Oh, again,
if you don't see me, I could be dealing with something.
(34:04):
Give me the space to do that. I'm being honest
with you to let you know that I have limitations.
I have things that come along with this life of
being in front of the camera the entire time. Give
me the space to go through those things when they
get messy. Like I've been in ers where I see
somebody with their phone out and I'm like, that's part
(34:27):
of the decision. Why to reveal that stuff so that
people know. And I think ultimately, when that happens, it's
somebody forgetting that there's a human being on the other side,
and that's when it's time to reveal. That's when it's
time to go, Hey, I'm human. There's stuff that's going
to be happening. Please give me the space to work
through that. But I think if you give people too much,
then you can't pull that back. It's hard to give
(34:49):
people every aspect of your life and then ask for
patience and privacy you already open the doors, so I
always have to be very careful with how far I
open it.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Well, good on you for knowing what your limitations are
and what you do want to allow people you know
and see and what you know you need to have
a minute and have something for you right like it's
it's an important lesson that some of us learn and
some of us don't. And I think if you know
that about yourself again, it goes back to longevity, It
goes back to happiness and living a life you really
(35:28):
want to live.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I want to be here for a long time. Yeah,
and I want to continue this conversation for a long time.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
There's no doubt I have that you will be here
for a long time. I think everybody that watches you
and loves your work knows that.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
But I don't want to burn out. Yeah, yeah, that's
the thing. I want to make sure I'm here healthily
for a long time, and that's more important. Well.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I couldn't agree more. And as we wrap up this conversation,
the name of the show is called I've never said
this before, and it was born and we were talking
a little before the interview from this idea, you know,
I cover a lot of record carpets and junkets, and
you have a minute and a half two minutes with somebody.
Half the time, everyone's asking the same question because if
you don't get it for your outlet, it doesn't matter,
(36:09):
you know. So to me, it's I love that side
what I do. But it felt it was feeling a
little repetitive, and I love conversation and wanted to give
people a chance to come on a longer format show
and say something that they've wanted to always put out
into the world. It's not about a secret, it's about
just what's something you never really get a chance to
talk about or say that you can come here and
(36:32):
say that you're not going to say in a two
minute carpet, right, So, is there anything today you can
think of that you've never said before that you want
to leave us with?
Speaker 2 (36:39):
First off, good on you for fostering on organic, authentic conversations.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It's very rare that an artist needs to go somewhere
and have a real conversation authentically and have a space
that's safe enough to do so. That isn't you know,
it doesn't feel like you're fishing for clickbait and all
of that, so I think it's worth addressing that you're
creating a space here that's rare. Thank you, and I
(37:08):
really appreciate that. One of the things that I have
been talking about lately, not just with family, with people
around me, and I think a lot of creatives might
need to hear this. You don't need to go to LA.
You don't. The industry changes every five years or so,
and in the current iteration that we're in, everybody feels
(37:31):
like in order to do what I need to do,
I need to drop everything and move to LA. But
what they don't understand is it's like going from high
school into the NBA. You throw yourself into this machine
that requires so much of what I call industry IQ,
You're bound to trip and fall and be trapped. And
(37:52):
I've watched the city chew people up and spit them
right back out, and they didn't understand that they had
other options. And I'll be really practical about it. You
can go for a time, you can find an agent,
you can find other people to collaborate with, but the
city is so expensive and revolves around one industry. If
(38:12):
you stay there without being efficient immediately, it will suck
you dry. Let it bring you usually if it brings
you for money, because like there's something to do, you
have to fly out to go work. I have to
fly out tonight to go work. But you can do
that from where you are. Keep your family, keep your
support system, keep the people where you are. Especially as
(38:33):
an actor, the majority of the things you're going to
be doing is putting something on tape. You can put
something on tape from it anywhere. But I'm tired of
seeing people go to LA and get chewed up and
come back as husks of what they were previously. I've
never said that, and I feel like it's something that
at this point needs to be said, because we see
(38:55):
documentary after documentary after documentary as something somebody goes out
there and crazy these stuff happens to them, and then
they're never the same. Yeah, you can be an artist
wherever it is that you are, and when your art
is good enough, the world will have your attention. You
don't need to go there and try to force it
and make it happen.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I feel like we just got a free master class
and I am here for it.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I hope, I hope people hear that and it changes
somebody's decision.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, Yeah, no rocket, solid advice and worth hearing because
people don't talk about that enough.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
So I love that it's not a one You don't
need to go to one place to do this anymore. Yeah,
it's nice. It's brilliant. You have your phone, you can
do anything on there. Yeah, but hopefully that that that
helps somebody. Man, could you be any cooler? I'm working
on it. Yeah, this is a front I'm working on.
I'm working on it. I'm doing the work to be that.
But I think these kind of conversations make it that
(39:50):
much easier. You're doing something special here.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Well, thank you man, I was I was really excited
to have you on. Like I said, I think you're
a brilliant artist, but also you offer a lot of
good insight in to life and real life shit. And
that's what the show's about. It's hearing from people that
you know listeners love, but also walking away learning a
little something and that they can then go apply in
their life. And I think that the way you're so
(40:13):
grounded is why you've worked for so many decades, and
you'll continue working and I can't wait to see what
you continue doing. Man, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I can't wait for our next conversation. I can't wait too.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
We will for sure, and if I see you in
the New York streets, I will not be bringing you
warm fruit.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
And I will not offer you condiments of any kind.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Thank you very much, Thank you very much. Until next time, brother, Thanks.
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me, Tommy Diderio.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio
and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
(40:51):
podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you like this episode,
tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Didario.
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me,
Tommy de Dario. My guest today is the very brilliant
Tyler James Williams, who is one of those actors who
has the gift of saying so much without saying anything
at all. My man has earned a critical acclaim for
his starring role as Gregory on Abbot Elementary Now. I
(00:21):
describe Abbot as a show that gives a gentle hug
to the world at a time when people just want
to feel comforted, and Gregory is a character that does
just that, all while providing so many laughs and so
many smiles. We are halfway through season five and Tyler
is sitting down with me to reflect on his own journey.
We are learning so much more about the man who
(00:41):
has been bringing you joy for so many years. Let's
see if today we can get Tyler to say something
that he has never said before. Tyler James Williams, how
are you, my man?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm good? How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I am good? Do you always walk around looking this fly?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I tried to most of my time going to and
from set and sweatpants. Whenever I'm not doing that, I
try to give the people something.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, you want to feel good. Yeah, you want to
feel I see you on the carpets, man, you're always
trying some pose, wearing something first.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Man, It's another one of those things where it's like,
when I'm not in Gregory Eddie, it's nice to put
something else on and then feel it flow and and
enjoy the night and that.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, well, rock on, man, you're doing it. You're doing it. Like,
we have a lot to get into today. I think
you were one of these artists that brings so much
joy to so many people, and you've been doing it
for years and we have a lot to celebrate. But
we're going to start by maybe the most pressing question
of your entire career. Okay, what do you really think
about warm fruit?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Really? In the right situations. I'm for it. We do
overuse it sometimes, we definitely do too much. We sometimes
do too much. I love a pie. I love a
really great pie, but there's sometimes the feelings I'm not
like the other day I saw like strawberry pie is
a thing, and I'm like, I don't think that that
(02:05):
one was supposed to be warmed. I don't think we
were here for that. I'm also like a lot of
the berries. I'm not with it. No, I'm not. I'm
not with it. But an apple, I'm having a great
time a cherry even. Hey, we're having a good time. Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
But we can stop there, all right, we can stop right.
I feel that I feel that I'm not. I'm not
totally sure how I feel. But that's one of the
many hang ups that your character Gregory has.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
No are you possibly Gregory alined in this?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, I don't think I love warm fry. Oh really,
I love warm fruit.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, I'm gonna go with the solid. No, okay, a
solid now.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
All right, So it was for you, That line is
for you, I felt.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I felt very If you have a line coming up
in any of the seasons about condiments, I have a
very hard no about condiments. No, No, we don't do condiment.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
My brother is like that. I don't get that, and
I've never understood it. He's always eaten like a dry hamburger,
and I thought, yeah, when he was a child like that,
like a like you might die. I thought like it
was like a hazard, or you could throw a piece
of cheese on it. But a condiment, I don't get it.
It covers up the food is intended to taste like
I just don't get to catch up. Ooh for the
(03:12):
worst mustard. Oh no, no, no, not even like a
deli must No. Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I know I have a few hang ups like your
character has. Okay, so I can't respect it, I can relate.
What do you think is your biggest hang up in
relation to to Gregor of your on your own?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, with Gregory, for sure, I mean his inability to
be comfortable. I need him to work on that a
little bit because I can feel it in my body. Yeah,
his inability to be comfortable in any given situation. I
feel like it's very foreign to me in a way.
I think I've been doing this for so long. I've
(03:47):
kind of learned to create my own comfortable space. And
it serves your stress level, well, it serves your life well,
he needs that at the very least.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah. Interesting, while you created something that just entertains us
and entertains this beyond. It's so much fun. But of
course you broke onto the scene with everybody hits Christ right,
and it's very hard to go from being a child
actor to an adult actor. Not everybody can do that seamlessly,
and it takes a certain skill set, right, and you've
mentioned that surviving the transition from child actor to adult
(04:21):
actor means starting over, So mentally, how do you start over?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
It's one of those quotes that you see on a
tile on somebody's Instagram story and you're like, okay, whatever,
But it's actually in this situation true where it's like
respect and success is not something that carries over. It's
earned like rent. Every day it's due. And I think
as a child actor a lot of the beginning of
your career can be predicated upon you were a cute kid.
(04:51):
It can be if that's what your situation was. I
think once you turn eighteen, especially when I did, actors
become very good at their jobs. And you're now competing
with people who do this full time. This isn't a
game for them. And I think approaching it as a
brand new artist let you know how hard you need
(05:14):
to work and where it needs to come from. I
think what can inhibit a lot of child actors is, well,
this thing I was doing before worked, so why would
I change it? But it's like, but the game is
completely different now. That's I think the industry changes every
five years anyway, So if you don't approach it as
a new individual career and try to rest on the
(05:35):
laurels of what you did previously, that's the first step
to get caught in the trap.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Oh wow, that makes sense. So is there anything that
you had to unlearn from being a child actor in
order to step into a career as an adult.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I had to unlearn the idea that there's a right
way to do it.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I think as a child, you're trying to please these
people and you wanted to have somebody say good job,
and you did it right. And I think I learned
how to look for that in directors and producers and
writers of like, did I do it right? But being
an artist is different. There isn't necessarily a right way
to do it. Sometimes the answer to a scene or
(06:19):
a take or an intention is the complete wrong decision
that anybody else would make. And I had to learn
how to give myself the freedom to play and not
do it the right way, because as long as I'd
picked the correct choice, all of my reads were going
to be safe, all of the projects I took were
going to be really safe, and I was going to
probably stall out with that safety. Yeah, I think that
(06:43):
that would be it more than anything.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Do you have more confidence than versus now? Or do
you have to find that confidence again because you feel
like as a child do you care less what people think?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oh? No, I feel like you care more as a child.
Every approval is everything to you. I have more confid
is now. And I say this a lot to people.
When somebody doesn't have confidence in themselves, trust them on that.
That means that they haven't built the argument to themselves
yet to be confident. I think we tell people that
you should just be more confident. You should slowly, little
(07:17):
by little, build the argument to yourself so that you
are And I think by taking those risks and not
always looking for the right choice and something, I little
by little built that confidence. But it takes swings. It
takes sometimes swinging and missing. Yeah, but you learn to
trust yourself in that process.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well, what an epic career you have, then? What an
epic career you have? Now? Add that elementary like I
said earlier, is it's something that brings so much joy.
It's a staple in so many households. People just love
it so much. The fact that you can get together
with people that you love and watch it and smile
and enjoy something in a crazy world is really nice.
I have so many questions about you and your role
(07:58):
and your process. I guess the first one is how
much is in prov versus how much is following a script?
Ninety eight percent of it is scripted, even the fourth wall,
like breaking the fourth wall and looking in a camera.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
That's with the two percent. I'm in the writer's room
knows it, and I've said it multiple times. They do
a really good job of this. One of my biggest
pet peeves is if I see a look in a script,
because you can't dictate how the character is going to
feel until we're there, and it's not a look that's
(08:38):
paced for comedic effect. It's feeling caught.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
These are regular human beings who have a camera crew
around them that they're aware of. But there are gonna
be times where, in living your natural, authentic life, you
feel more caught than others. So putting them in there
for comedic effect actually makes it really contrived. It's exactly
where you think it would be. I've been in, however,
(09:05):
many episodes we've done now and directed to, and every
single time you try to tell an actor where to
put a look, it's going to feel like you put
it there if they find it organically and they let it,
they let the situation motivated. Those are the ones where
you get the laughs from. Those are the ones the
people that people talk the ones that people talk about
that are like, I guess what would be considered iconic
(09:28):
were never scripted.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Wow? Yeah wow. So fourth wall stuff is pretty much
trusting your intuition and acting on it.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, you're if you're in the character enough, they'll tell
you where to put it. The character will inform that feeling.
If you let the camera operators become other people in
this scene, then it'll start to give it to you.
And there's always something behind it. Once you build relationships
with individual cameras as well, that creates something in there.
(09:57):
It's very like it's a magic that you can't go
this line, this line. Look, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So when you're seeing a script and there's instructions, you know,
let's say Gregory looks at her sarcastically, where Gregory looks
upset after a line has said, you don't really respond
to that. You want to feel it on your own.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, I'll get that informs me of where like we're
trying to get to in the scene, like it's just
contextual clues, but I'm not putting it there, you know.
It's like, if it's there, I'm definitely not putting it
there now, Like that's I have to find another way
to do it. And sometimes it's for like the studio
when they read the script and know where the act
breaks are going to be right and like, okay, this
(10:39):
is where we go out on this scene. But at
least for me as an artist individually, I'm definitely not
putting it wherever you wrote it.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That's so interesting. I love it. I love getting in
the mind of what you guys do because it's not
easy and you have to have a level of confidence
to be able to act on your intuition and do
two things like that.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, at some point, and quinc has talked about this
a bit, you share ownership of the character with the
writer's room. We've been in these characters for five years now.
We know what feels right and doesn't feel right living
in their skin. So at this point we're co parenting
these characters. And there is something really nice when we
(11:20):
have these moments where it's like I don't know about
that we have to take each other seriously in that
moment and go, you care about this characters as much
as I do, and you can feel them just as
much as I do. But we have to decide where
these things feel authentic and they can't just be words
on a page. And that's what's really nice about where
we are now in season five is there is this
(11:40):
co ownership that we all feel with these characters and
with this story.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So, yeah, five seasons in. What keeps it exciting for you?
What keeps you wanting to come back and do more
and more seasons?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Randall Einhorn, one of our EPs and our usual director,
says that our rules keep us honest. I think the
rules of our world keep it exciting. I think there's
certain things that many people don't think about that we
just don't do, and we don't break we break the
fourth wall, but even how we do that and when
we do that is very specific, and I think the
(12:16):
writers do a really good job of taking these characters
that people have fallen in love with and and found
compelling and throwing them into the craziest situations possible. Right now,
we're in a story where the school is in them mall.
That's how you keep a show alive. You take these
characters who have just found enough comfort and stability and
(12:37):
you rip that out from under them again, and you
see how they handle that and how they've matured over time.
I also get a chance to work with some of
the best actors in the world. And when we all
get up very early in the morning, and we're not
all good at that, like I'm particularly bad at that,
but when we all touch down and we're on set
(12:58):
for the first time and were for the first time,
there's an energy that starts moving and everybody wakes up
and everyone's ready to go. And I think that's a
big part of a show lasting a long time, is
you need everybody in your cast to be on the
same page with what type of show we're trying to
make and what is the caliber which we're trying to.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Work And we love a little romance. Yeah, and Gregory
Gregory keeps us on our toes.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Man.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I feel like Gregory is the ultimate yearner, right, And
it's the question of him e Janeine, will they won't they?
I mean, what are your thoughts? Do you think they'll
be in game? Do you want them to be in
end game. Are you invested in that?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I am very invested in it, but I'm invested in
the journey being just as good as the destination. I
was one of those people who when I watched romantic
comedies and things, there was this kind of like suspension
of this belief that you had to go into of
being like oh, and then they figure it out and
they're fine. I like walking through the things that they
(13:55):
have to figure out, because when our everyday lives, it's
not that linear, like how up and down they've kind
of been, and when an issue comes up, you watch
it affect them individually and then they have to address
it together. That's what I feel like, generationally, we need
more of everything's complicated. It's not you know, we're not
(14:15):
our parents or grandparents' generation where you meet somebody and
then that's it and y'all together forever. This is a
modern day love story, and it's got. As much as
it frustrates people, I love it because your dating life
is frustrating too. Yeah, this is kind of where we're
on the right track.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Are you rooting for them?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah? Well I can't not root for Gregory. I think
as an actor, if you're not rooting for your character,
you're doing them a disservice. I'm definitely rooting for the
two of them, but I also don't feel like in
rooting for them, I want to make their route easy either.
I want their relationship to be strong, and sometimes it
(14:55):
needs to be tested for that to be the case.
So yeah, I'm always rooting for them, but I'm rooting
for them to be their best selves and that's gonna
take going through fires.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Sometimes you're the type of guy that likes a slow burn,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, bring it on. That's dope because then, like,
I don't want something that burns hot and fast. Yeah yeah,
because then you burns out and they're like, well what happened?
That slow burn is what you build life on top of.
That's what gets me excited, gets me.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Out of bed in the morning, And it's relatable to
your point. People are going through real life relationships like
that and they look at it and say, oh my god,
it's not just me. They feel reflected by the art,
which is really cool. And I love that Abbot as
a show people very much are growing up with and
(15:44):
they're hitting pivotal moments in their life watching and it's
just such a part of their own journey. Do you
feel that working on the show like whoa people really are?
Like growing up with us?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah. I was just talking about we're doing season five
and we happen to be tied to twenty twenty because
of when we started. We started in the middle of
the pandemic, to see where the world was five years
ago versus where we are now, and having this show
be the way I mark that time. My life is different,
(16:16):
everyone around me life is different. The world that we
thought we were in pre pandemic is definitely not the
world that we're in now. It's been nice to grow
with people at the same rate, and I think it's
something that has been the case in my career because
I started so young as well. I have people who
(16:37):
were teens when I was a teen and watching me
on TV who are now we're in our thirties and
we're trying to find stability in our life. It's I
think you need those shows, and then I think also
actors to mark those like major moments in your life
to remember, I was watching this show at this time
(17:00):
figuring out whatever that was. Everybody had their Pandemic watch
right that they were like, and I got through these
three months just binging this show. I think that's important
when you talk about a career with longevity. You need
to be able to be a marker for people along
the road.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And I love that it's a show on traditional broadcast. Yes,
you can watch it on streaming, but it's on broadcasts
and it still continues to crush it.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, it's a model that worked for a reason.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think we got really quick to abandon it once
streaming became a thing and it was like, well, now
we can do anything that we want. But as great
as that is, there's something about being in people's households
every week that's different. You build different relationships with them,
their relationship to the show becomes different. That's why it
becomes a comfort watch ten fifteen years later. You're not
(17:49):
just watching it because you enjoy it. You're watching it
because you got used to these people being in your house.
You miss them. The relationship between and viewer changes very rapidly.
That to me, is an art form in itself.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Let's talk about future Gregory for a minute. Okay, do
you want him to become principal?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I don't know, I really don't know. I want him
to have everything that he always dreamed of, but I
also want him to challenge the idea of his dreams
at the same time, do you really want this or
was this something that to you meant I'm successful? And
(18:37):
I think that's something that generationally we're all kind of
grappling with right now. Is we were sold you go
to college, you get the house, you get the car,
you have the kids, you have all the things. And
then as we became adults, those things went out the window, yeah,
or they changed significantly. We now have to redefine success
for ourselves and it's a work that we not only
(18:58):
have to do, but we get to do. And I
hope he does that. I hope that if he does
become principal, it's because it's one hundred percent what he wants.
But if that's not the case, I don't want him
to have it. I want him to if he finds
love in teaching right now and being more on the
ground with the kids and actively affecting their lives, and
(19:18):
that feels purposeful to him. I hope that he reaches
a level of maturity to say I don't need the.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Title right right, and dreams change over time.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Oh what they do.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So the question is has his dream changed, su or not?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I think he hasn't really had the time to consider that,
and that's what I'm hoping we allow him the time
to do really consider if that's still what he wants.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Hmmm, all right, we'll have to see. By season twenty three,
there we go. Maybe we'll find out by then. Why
have we not had an epic blooper reel because I
don't think one's ever been dropped.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You haven't had a blooper reel, but you've definitely had
blooper takes.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
We've had takes, but it's like a big fat blooper
reel of all the season since I know you guys
do some crazy things. Oh yeah, no, we're waiting to
see them for sure, Like for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I think we got really good at keeping things together,
so there's not as much blooper because we almost lost
whole scenes when Cheryl comes in in season one and
she says, sweet Baby Jesus in the grown room two,
my desks have been desks. That was not scripted. She
walked in and said that. And if you look at
(20:27):
the other takes of the other cameras, Quentin I broke immediately,
but we needed to keep that take. It's like, so
we kept Cheryl's angle of it. But after I remember
after that it was like kind of a moment for
us that we had to go, all right, everybody be
on your stuff because you may just walk in and
hear something and we don't want to lose this take.
So part of it has been we've been really efficient.
(20:49):
But I wouldn't be surprised if by the time we're done,
somebody in editing goes okay and then just drops something,
whether it's with our consent or not, right, I wouldn't
be surprised.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
All Right, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. You also
are taking on the role of director. Yeah, you did
season four, of course you directed, You've directed this season
as well. What do you have to shift in your
mind and your responsibilities when you go from stepping you know,
in front of the camera to behind the camera.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I'm no longer just concerned about my performance. I'm kind
of concerned about everything. It can be a lot to
deal with. Mentally, I'm usually finding myself in a scene,
being present with somebody while also watching their performance at
the same time and saving notes from that performance, and
(21:38):
then going back after that take and watching it on
playback and making sure camera got it yeah, and then
trying to marry those two things together. There's things that
I find that actors are doing when I'm face to
face with somebody up close that I don't know if
you would be able to see from watching in the
monitors in the back. So I'm able to talk to
camera and say there's something that they're doing here that
(21:59):
I don't think that we're getting and we're catching. But
it's being concerned about the story and the show as
a whole and not just your performance, which is a
lot to deal with. But I think I work again
with really great actors who I can trust, really great
A camera operators who I can trust, great lighting department
(22:19):
that I can trust. So as much as I'm concerned
about it, I can always lean back on the fact
that they're good at their job. Yea, and I can
trust them.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah yeah. Are you direct to anything else this season?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
No? No, no, no. I love it. Not that I don't,
but I feel like for what it takes and somehow
the way it gets timed, I always get really big episodes,
and Science Fair was a huge episode this next one
is just as big. I only have one in me
per year. It feels like because it takes. You know,
(22:50):
I'm not just shooting the week that I'm shooting. I'm
in prep three weeks prior while still shooting the other episodes,
and then I'm in editing two weeks after while still
shooting the other episodes. So it's all in all, like
a it takes for the span of like six or
seven episodes for me actually just to get this one done.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Wow yeow. And you know you you're leading a show
with an ensemble casts. You strike me as someone that
really wants to focus on the job you have rather
than be stretched in twenty five different positions.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I never wanted to be a jack of all trades
but a master of none. M That was one of
my biggest fears. I think as a child, you get
taught you can do this, you can sing, you can dance,
you can act, you can but then at some point
you get lost in the sauce a bit, and now
you're doing a bunch of things and you're not doing
any of them well, but you're doing them right. And
that's something I always wanted to avoid. So I only
(23:43):
want to take on exactly what I can do. The
episodes by themselves stretch me already. I want to do
one really good episode a season. I'm good with that.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah. It's good to know what you do and don't
want and what your threshold is, right, because it's easy
in this business to be pulled in a million directions
and feel like you have to be pulled in a
million directions.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You get to say I don't have the bandwidth. Yeah,
and I think everyone in the situation would be happier
with it if you did. The first episode I was
assigned this year was the one that just aired last week,
and it was the school moving into the mall for
the first time. And I sat down with Randall Einhorn,
who ended up directing the episode, and I was like,
(24:24):
as an actor, we're filling out a new space, we're
establishing a new space. There's a lot going on. I
feel like you should take this one. And I remember
having to have that conversation and go, this has to
be the mature decision. This is not an ego call.
This is for the story. It's better if you established
the space and I focus on just feeling the space
out as an actor and I'll take the one right
(24:45):
after it. And that's hopefully what people, when they learn
their limitations, they can do for nominally themselves with the
projects they work on.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, and that's how you have longevity, right, that's the
long game, right, So it's good on you for that.
Do you know that when you google your name, it
says American actor and rapper. So music, of course, is
something that you play around with and even though you
don't release it, you still write bars you say, we'll
(25:15):
never ever see the light of day. So what are
you enjoying about doing that and just kind of messing around?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It goes into what I was saying before. When you're young,
you're taught, If you're talented, you better use it and
find a way to muse it to make money. This
I just do because I like to do it, and
I think I decided at some point that I wasn't
going to do it professionally because I needed something that
I could just do and like to do. The bar
(25:42):
for myself is very high, and I know that I
put that on myself even with you know, was talking
to producers about my episode and they're like it's great,
and I'm like, there are things in there. I don't
like the stuff that I wish I had another take,
and it's I can't have that for every art form
that I indulge in. I think sometimes you just need
(26:04):
to make art for the sake of making art and
leave it there and go, this is good. I like
the way this is, the way this is. I don't
need to put it out and release it. And I
think at some point I took hip hop back for me.
I'm going to keep this one. I'm not going to
get especially as the industry changed and streaming became so
much a part of things, and artists now are finding
(26:25):
it harder to financially stay in a good place with
releasing music. I didn't want to get caught up in
that game. I wanted to make stuff that I like
to hear and that I like to write, not expressed myself,
but that I didn't feel pressure to monetize.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Right right, It's real.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
It's for me.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
You're sitting on like eight thousand, Oh my.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Oh, you have no idea. It's like notebooks full of stuff,
but it maybe like a project comes up at some
point where it like, oh I have a use for
these now. But I kind of like I like them
sitting there, like going back and revisiting them and seeing
the growth over time and seeing where my head was
at it. So there's also another thing with music is
like it's so personal. Yah, and I may not always
(27:05):
be in the same place I was when I wrote this.
It's still good, but I'm not there anymore, and I
can now appreciate it without I don't know, feeling that
sense of what now I think people call cringe and
immaturity of looking back on something and like, I've definitely
had stuff I've written fresh out of a breakup and
I look back on now and like, heal yourself, work
on that, go talk to somebody. I'm happy that I
(27:28):
have that space to do that without having to deal
with it going out into the world.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, it's for you and it's
important to have that. Yeah, you know, it doesn't as
much as people want to see it. Yeah, I get
it and I understand it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Part of also being an artist and having a relationship
with your audience, much like with kids, is knowing what
you can give them and what you can't.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
And I think that I have to limit myself in
a way and limit what I give people because that
keeps our relationships strong.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You strike me as a very
grounded person. And we started talking a little bit about
success earlier, and you're somebody from the outside who has
had tremendous success, right And when you think about where
you are in your life now, how do you define success?
Do you think success means freedom? Does it mean peace?
(28:20):
Does it mean fame?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I pick a word at the top of every year
that I want to be the thing that I'm going
after this year, and freedom was the word I chose
this year. Really, yeah, success is freedom for me right now? Freedom.
I think I spent a lot of time doing what
I had to do to sustain a career, right to
(28:44):
keep momentum, going to play the game to a certain extent,
because so much of the industry, and you know, is political,
and you have to make the moves that you have
to make when you have to make them. This will
be my thirtieth year in the industry. I want freedom
to just be. It's why I moved back to New
(29:06):
York and left LA I needed. I know that whatever
is coming for me next, I'm gonna find in that
freedom that I can feel. I know that I'll find
the next great thing in exploring that freedom. But it's
a freedom that I have to fight for. And I
(29:28):
think it's not just freedom in the sense of being
able to go outside, but mental freedom as well, being
able to decompress and tap out of the system. Whenever
you see an actor and you're like, where have they been?
Sometimes it's just I'm chasing freedom. I gotta free myself
from it mentally and then I'll be back. And I
(29:48):
think there's an aspect of that that I'm heading into.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Currently that must be feeling.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's nice, it's nice, it's hard, though. Freedom is something
you have to fight for in every sense of the word,
and you're going to be challenged each step along the way,
and a lot of times it's you that's stopping you
from having the freedom. And that's what I'm finding now
is that I'm challenging myself to question, why do I
feel like I need to do this because I'm asking
(30:15):
for freedom and I'm the only one stopping me from
having it.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right. Well, I also think it's our innate sensibility of
needing to please other people and putting their needs above you,
above ours, right, and that's just human and to your point,
it's a fight. It's a fight to be like no, no, no,
I need to remember what I want, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
One hundred percent, And I would say that for anybody.
If you've everyone's like, oh, why wasn't he at this thing?
I was chasing freedom more than likely freedom.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I like that for twenty twenty six freedom, freedom and
freedom in to your point earlier, setting boundaries that need
to be set right, like you're I feel like you
do put a lot out there, and you've shared a
lot about your life, about your health and about things
like that, but you also do have a boundary where
you don't reveal everything. Was that a conscious choice you
made early in your career?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
For sure? I think one of the things I want
the freedom to do is make mistakes. And I'm aware
more than most people because I've always been a public
figure that when you give too much, that thing is
now going to be judged. Although you are a human
being in process, that's not how it's going to be seen.
(31:26):
You need to be aware of the platform that you have.
So if you're aware that you're in process, that means
you can't show everybody everything because then you're inhibiting your
own evolution. I want to be able to grow and
make because ultimately, some of the best performances I've ever
given came off of the back of a mistake I
made five ten years prior, where I learned from it
and remembered where I was at that time. So when
(31:48):
the character it was their time to make it, I
could give it to you authentically and also know where
they're going to go and get out of that. I
think eventually, hopefully, if you're smart, you learn that the
boundaries don't keep people out, it keeps you in. And
that's what I love about it. That's what I love
about this relationship that I've been able to build up
(32:09):
my audience over time, which is I think they know,
which is like, I'm gonna give you everything that I got,
but you know, don't cross certain lines with me. Yeah,
I can feel it when people approach me on the street.
I'm trying to be as normal as a human being
as possible, So don't expect my relationships to be part
of my economy. So they'll date to who I want
(32:33):
and have a great time, and then if it doesn't
work out, it doesn't work out. Cool, But that doesn't
mean I need to serve it up on a silver
platter to you as part of my career. That's not
what I'm here for.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Right in an industry where it's almost celebrated to be
super accessible and put so much out there, especially with
social media, do you feel like it's ever costed you
opportunities or it's almost gained you or just no effect.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I feel like it always costs you something you don't
put out without it taking something from you. And I
was very I did pretty much my arm tied behind
my back to get onto social media when we were
promoting an indie film called Dear White People, And when
you're doing indie film, it's hard to get people to
see something because there's no big pr arm behind it.
(33:21):
So they were like, you have a following and we
should probably use you for that, and I was like, okay, fine.
But I was always aware that the more that I gave,
the less I would have. And thankfully the industry has
I think, stayed around with me long enough to understand
that there's certain things that I'm just not gonna do,
(33:42):
so it hasn't cost me anything. But I am very
measured in what I put out. Like I've talked about
a lot of stuff with my health, not just as
a way to speak for other people and give them
a beacon if they're going through it at the same time,
but also as a way for people to know, Oh, again,
if you don't see me, I could be dealing with something.
(34:04):
Give me the space to do that. I'm being honest
with you to let you know that I have limitations.
I have things that come along with this life of
being in front of the camera the entire time. Give
me the space to go through those things when they
get messy. Like I've been in ers where I see
somebody with their phone out and I'm like, that's part
(34:27):
of the decision. Why to reveal that stuff so that
people know. And I think ultimately, when that happens, it's
somebody forgetting that there's a human being on the other side,
and that's when it's time to reveal. That's when it's
time to go, Hey, I'm human. There's stuff that's going
to be happening. Please give me the space to work
through that. But I think if you give people too much,
then you can't pull that back. It's hard to give
(34:49):
people every aspect of your life and then ask for
patience and privacy you already open the doors, so I
always have to be very careful with how far I
open it.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Well, good on you for knowing what your limitations are
and what you do want to allow people you know
and see and what you know you need to have
a minute and have something for you right like it's
it's an important lesson that some of us learn and
some of us don't. And I think if you know
that about yourself again, it goes back to longevity, It
goes back to happiness and living a life you really
(35:28):
want to live.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I want to be here for a long time. Yeah,
and I want to continue this conversation for a long time.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
There's no doubt I have that you will be here
for a long time. I think everybody that watches you
and loves your work knows that.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
But I don't want to burn out. Yeah, yeah, that's
the thing. I want to make sure I'm here healthily
for a long time, and that's more important. Well.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I couldn't agree more. And as we wrap up this conversation,
the name of the show is called I've never said
this before, and it was born and we were talking
a little before the interview from this idea, you know,
I cover a lot of record carpets and junkets, and
you have a minute and a half two minutes with somebody.
Half the time, everyone's asking the same question because if
you don't get it for your outlet, it doesn't matter,
(36:09):
you know. So to me, it's I love that side
what I do. But it felt it was feeling a
little repetitive, and I love conversation and wanted to give
people a chance to come on a longer format show
and say something that they've wanted to always put out
into the world. It's not about a secret, it's about
just what's something you never really get a chance to
talk about or say that you can come here and
(36:32):
say that you're not going to say in a two
minute carpet, right, So, is there anything today you can
think of that you've never said before that you want
to leave us with?
Speaker 2 (36:39):
First off, good on you for fostering on organic, authentic conversations.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It's very rare that an artist needs to go somewhere
and have a real conversation authentically and have a space
that's safe enough to do so. That isn't you know,
it doesn't feel like you're fishing for clickbait and all
of that, so I think it's worth addressing that you're
creating a space here that's rare. Thank you, and I
(37:08):
really appreciate that. One of the things that I have
been talking about lately, not just with family, with people
around me, and I think a lot of creatives might
need to hear this. You don't need to go to LA.
You don't. The industry changes every five years or so,
and in the current iteration that we're in, everybody feels
(37:31):
like in order to do what I need to do,
I need to drop everything and move to LA. But
what they don't understand is it's like going from high
school into the NBA. You throw yourself into this machine
that requires so much of what I call industry IQ,
You're bound to trip and fall and be trapped. And
(37:52):
I've watched the city chew people up and spit them
right back out, and they didn't understand that they had
other options. And I'll be really practical about it. You
can go for a time, you can find an agent,
you can find other people to collaborate with, but the
city is so expensive and revolves around one industry. If
(38:12):
you stay there without being efficient immediately, it will suck
you dry. Let it bring you usually if it brings
you for money, because like there's something to do, you
have to fly out to go work. I have to
fly out tonight to go work. But you can do
that from where you are. Keep your family, keep your
support system, keep the people where you are. Especially as
(38:33):
an actor, the majority of the things you're going to
be doing is putting something on tape. You can put
something on tape from it anywhere. But I'm tired of
seeing people go to LA and get chewed up and
come back as husks of what they were previously. I've
never said that, and I feel like it's something that
at this point needs to be said, because we see
(38:55):
documentary after documentary after documentary as something somebody goes out
there and crazy these stuff happens to them, and then
they're never the same. Yeah, you can be an artist
wherever it is that you are, and when your art
is good enough, the world will have your attention. You
don't need to go there and try to force it
and make it happen.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I feel like we just got a free master class
and I am here for it.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I hope, I hope people hear that and it changes
somebody's decision.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, Yeah, no rocket, solid advice and worth hearing because
people don't talk about that enough.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
So I love that it's not a one You don't
need to go to one place to do this anymore. Yeah,
it's nice. It's brilliant. You have your phone, you can
do anything on there. Yeah, but hopefully that that that
helps somebody. Man, could you be any cooler? I'm working
on it. Yeah, this is a front I'm working on.
I'm working on it. I'm doing the work to be that.
But I think these kind of conversations make it that
(39:50):
much easier. You're doing something special here.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Well, thank you man, I was I was really excited
to have you on. Like I said, I think you're
a brilliant artist, but also you offer a lot of
good insight in to life and real life shit. And
that's what the show's about. It's hearing from people that
you know listeners love, but also walking away learning a
little something and that they can then go apply in
their life. And I think that the way you're so
(40:13):
grounded is why you've worked for so many decades, and
you'll continue working and I can't wait to see what
you continue doing. Man, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I can't wait for our next conversation. I can't wait too.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
We will for sure, and if I see you in
the New York streets, I will not be bringing you
warm fruit.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
And I will not offer you condiments of any kind.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Thank you very much, Thank you very much. Until next time, brother, Thanks.
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me, Tommy Diderio.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio
and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
(40:51):
podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you like this episode,
tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Didario.
Elvis Duran and the Morning Show ON DEMAND News
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