May 20, 2026 • 42 mins
In part 1 of this 2-part series, Gandhi talks with media mogul, Jason Lee, about all things Hollywood: What’s going on with Ray J, who does Jason ACTUALLY beef with, does he feel guilt for platforming anyone specific, what orders does his security team have, and so much more. Someone has pissed him OFF.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Alls on the side. What's up. It's Gandhi and I'm
here with Diamond Heiller. Hi Hi ooh, I said Heller.
And we're going to be talking a little bit about
Tyler Perry today. We have somebody on the show that
I'm excited about, and it's going to be two episodes
because we talked to him for such a long time.
His name is Jason Lee. If you don't know who
(00:24):
Jason Lee is, you're about to find out. Jason Lee
has been in my realm of pop culture for quite
some time now. I think maybe for the people of color,
you definitely know who he is. It's not the white
guy from Mall Rats. It is the guy who started
and maintains Hollywood Unlocked. He was on Love and Hip Hop.
(00:46):
He has brought us some of the trashiest shit that
we will ever see in our lifetimes. But also he
does some really cool stuff too. So I think we're
going to talk about all of that. No, I know
we're going to because we already recorded this. But Diamond,
what did you what was your takeaway from any it?
Or shall we talk about that after?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay, fine, I've always been a fan of his I
didn't like him on Love and Hip Hop. But I
started following Hollywood Unlocked from watching Love and Hip Hop okay,
and just the way that he maintains relationships with these
celebrities while also telling us their business.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
It's ten out of ten something to be studied.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Like I was telling someone who didn't know him that
he and Hollywood Unlocked or who broke the Jordan Woods
Tristan Thompson stuff, And so I was like, yeah, no,
he's that guy, like.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Hello, he has all the tea all the time, he
knows it, he names names, He's not afraid to say
the things that I think a lot of other people
would be like, oh, are you sure? You wanted to say,
He's fine with it, and you're gonna hear a lot
of that. So let's get to it. I am here
(01:54):
with Jason Lee of I was gonna say of Hollywood Unlocked,
but you've taken a step back a little bit from
a want to and now you have a million different
projects going on.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, go ahead, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So you are a philanthropist, Yes I am. You are
a vice mayor of Stockton.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Still I sure, am you are?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You are an entrepreneur, Yes, you are involved in a
million different things.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yes, right, I'm an author.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You're an author, You're a culture critic.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
I'm a culture critic. I own an award show, the
Impact Awards.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
We're going to talk about those.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yeah, I do a lot.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I have a lot of different hats, and you know what,
I believe that we all can be anything we want.
I just chose to be at all at once.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
You're right, Donald Trump is president. If he can do that,
can't we do it.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
We've only been in this for a minute and you're
bringing up a kidnapper at a school, bomber, a mass
destructor of the White House?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Are you and figuratively argue maybe a thief.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
He's married to an immigrant who's not black and brown,
so she's not really an immigrant.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I don't know. I mean, yeah, don't start with me.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, you are all of these things. You wear a
lot of hats. Is there one specifically that you are
proud of at the moment?
Speaker 4 (03:01):
At the moment, you know, I will say I'm you know,
they announced say that I'm getting the BT black and
iconic word.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Very exciting.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Congratulations on May twenty third, which is my brother who
was murdered's birthday, And I'm doing it at DC Pride
as a member of the LGBT community. So it's like
summarizing all the important things in one moment for me.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
So I'm proud about that.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
So roll I had I would say today, you know,
I am happy to be the vice mayor of a
city that created me, that a city that in many ways,
you know, I could have lost everything my life. I
lost my mom, I lost my family, I lost friends,
I lost my freedom to foster care and all those things.
But like, it's so great to show kids when I
go to speak at their schools or speak at events
(03:45):
and watch these kids who are like fans of my
day job, and they see me and they're like, yo,
I hope that you see yourself and me. The other day,
me and the California State Treasurer and the school district superintendent,
doctor Rodriguez, we created a Hope program for foster kids.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
We're in California.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
We launched this pilot program in Stockton where kids, foster
kids can get up to three thousand dollars to transition
out of high school into the real world. And I
and when I was preparing my remarks, I found myself
getting emotional because I'm looking at this group of foster kids.
You had a couple of hundred foster kids there, and
They're all like sitting there looking at me, and I'm thinking, Okay,
what can I say that I can leave them with?
And I just said, you know, just remember that your
voice matters, and wherever you take your voice, don't let
(04:22):
anybody try to take it from you. You know, like
you're the future mayors in the audience, the future president,
you know, and like these kids, like watching them soak
that in and believe it like that, that made me
really proud.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
You get to be the representation you needed to see
growing up.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
I think about that.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Too, especially in today's times.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, right, where like as a woman of color, right,
you know, they won't even ask you what is your
lineage or what is your ethnicity or what is your background.
It's like you a woman of color. So like you
get in that woman of color box. They have a
box for you, they have two boxes for you. You know,
we are in a country where men are gonna tell
white men are going to tell you like what you
can do with your body in which you can't.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, let's start talking about their testicles. What are we
going to do with it down please.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
They can make so many more babies than I.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Can take care of them, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
It's wild. I actually we were talking about this because
there is this man in radio who is an icon,
and I applied for a job with him a very
long time ago, and he actually said to me, he
said it. He didn't write it. He said, if you
were a white girl with blonde hair, I would have
hired you five years ago. But the city that I'm
in doesn't really lean this way. So unfortunately, it's just
not a good fit. And everybody was appalled.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
And I thought, well, he said it in front of people.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
He said, well, he said it in front of one person.
When I told that story, everybody I was with was appalled,
and I said, one, that's not new. That's not a
new thing. We encounter that all the time. But too,
I was kind of glad that he actually said it,
because it was better than me wondering does my personality suck?
Am I just not a good fit? What could I
have done differently? If what I could have done differently
is nothing? Okay? Right, whatever, it's not great, And I
am glad to what we were talking about earlier that now
(05:54):
I get to be the person I wanted to see.
That's awesome. It was a moment in my life that
I'm like, I'm glad that that happened.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
But it didn't motivate you.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
It doesn't. It doesn't because I am so many more
things than just that, and I lean into it. I
will always be a woman of color I walk down
the street. I'm not peeling it off. That is me forever. Yeah,
I can't hide it. I don't want to. But I
also think that it just made me say, okay, cool,
Well I'm not for you. At some point I'll be
for somebody else. But I'm always going to be me.
(06:23):
I'm not going to try to change things so that
maybe I blend in with white culture more and oh
you can't tell because of my voice or whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It is.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So it motivates me in the way that I want
to see more of me in more places. But it
didn't change a ton. It didn't hurt my feelings. It
wasn't anything ichy, like.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yeah, that's what I said. That's why I say, like,
you can code switch without switching up.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I was just with Bows the other day and me
and her were having a conversation. We were at an
event in Beverly Hills and it was a bunch of
white folks in US and you know, we were literally
a magnet to the whole room. And I was digging
her up and she was like, he's a media tight
and I was, ooh, I'm going to add that to
my bio. I'm a media type, you know. But I
find you know, glass ceilings are made to be broken.
(07:03):
Glasses is made to be broken. So what I say,
did you lean into? I mean, obviously you are where
you are. I mean Elvis is he's still a white man, right, Yeah, Okay,
he's a white gay man, right. And you know, you
look at Howard Stern who has Robin and all of us.
We all have value and add value. But no matter
how far we want to go or what we want
to do, that glass was literally created to be broken.
(07:24):
You just have to have the courage to throw a
rock and like, you're going to miss, You're going to
break it, You're going to piss people off that you
broke it, and you're just gonna have to keep throwing
the rock.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
That's how.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Yeah, you might get cut up, you know, and it's okay,
there are bandages for that. And you figure it out
and you keep going. And this rise has been hard.
And you know, sometimes I will say, even as like
an elected official, now you're you're you're pulled into this
group of people who create chaos and distraction and destruction
and who are in it for the wrong reasons. And
then now you're a part of that class. So it's
(07:57):
like going to a school that you love because you
want to be in the school, but when you get there,
like all the people are shitty and they're all doing
shitty things, so you're shitty too.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
So I find myself checking people online like yo, hold
on the council did not do that, that's shitty, as
mayor Nick, then they did that. I have to repeatedly
remind them like, yes, I'm a part of that group,
but some of us are voting this way and some
of us are voting that way.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And it's important for me to always make the distinction.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And if you don't make the distinction, someone's going to
just make the assumption for you. So it's very important
to your point to always use your voice always, but
your assent to where you are now. Media Titan has
been fascinating because you started out in a very non
traditional way kind of becoming a journalist. Yes, were you
prepared for what was on the way? Did you ever
think that starting this, how would we say what Hollywood
(08:44):
Unlocked is a lot of people say it's a gossip site.
You talk about celebrities, you post all the t you
have now spun off from that. You have your own
podcast that is well digital platform, the Jason Lee Show,
where you interview all kinds of people. You are friends
with Cardi b with Rihanna, lot of famous people. But
this all started as a gossip thing. At what point
(09:05):
did you realize it was so much more than just commentary.
It was becoming influential.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yeah, my friend who's here, you know, he's been around
for twenty years and he I remember literally we were
sitting in my studio apartment that I had painted gray.
By the way, if you ever paint your walls, don't
paint him gray.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
It's like you good.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
It's like I was just like I was in juvenile
hall again, like why am I? Why did I Why
did I paint this?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
She is grey wall? Yeah? Gray gray?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
It was like gray, and we didn't we weren't on
the side where there was a lot of suns. So
I was like literally living in depression. But like twenty
years ago when I had the studio apartment, I had
all these different ideas. I didn't know where it was
going to land. I just knew like, I love Hollywood culture,
celebrity culture, I love the news. I love being able
to provide another perspective because there's things that people are
(09:52):
saying that are happening that are not. So I'm going
to unlock Hollywood through Hollywood Unlocked. And then when I
saw the boom of podcasting or no, when I saw
on Loving hip Hop, how they were trying to control
my narrative. You're going to be the gay bloger, that's
who you are. I'm like, no, I'm much more than that.
I'm I'm not the some of my sexuality or the
sum of gossip. And honestly, in my real life, I
don't like to gossip. I just like to criticize what
I see happening. So until Charlomagne gave me the culture
(10:14):
critic title, I was just kind of Jason Lee, who
was out there just you know, creating wreckage on the Internet.
But then as I went on Love and hip Hop,
and I didn't know final cut, like being in control
of your shows by editing. So I launched a podcast
that was uncensored so people could see the unfiltered Jason.
Then that started right and then NJ I just started
like leveraging audiences MTV while I'm out in love and
(10:35):
hip hop and vh one all that. And then at
some point I started seeing like, Okay, I'm reaching people everywhere,
So now I need to be very smart and strategic
about high reaches. So if I wanted, if I want
to grow, I know I have to do some growth hacking.
I have to have big opinions, be loud, be fearless,
and still pop out. So I would burn the internet
down and then I would go right in the party
(10:57):
and people are being like, we're your security, yet I
ain't got no security, but I got that microphone I'm
gonna go back to, you know. And so I was
always fearless, but you know, I started realizing that I
had a lot more responsibility too with that voice. And
I think when people start recognizing me and and people
start just speaking back to me everything I was saying,
I was like, yeah, I'm onto something.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Funny story. I was in Atlanta on a date with
this guy, cute guy.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
We pull up to this brunch spot and he goes,
oh my god, the line's around the corner.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
We're not going to get a table. I go, we
don't get a table.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
You know they're going to give They're gonna give me
a table. So we get out. I get us a table,
and we're in there and we're talking and everybody's coming
up to me having different conversations. One lady's like, oh
my god, I know you don't like people talking to
you when you're eating, and I know you're on a
day because obviously this is your type. And she starts
speaking to the type and I'm like, excuse me, like
(11:49):
he can hear you, you know. And then like this
other lady wants to talk to me about her man,
and you saved my life when you did this, and
I can't believe you did that.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And he goes, how do all these people do you know?
All these people? I said no.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
He goes, well, why why are they all talking to
you like they know you? And I go, yeah, because
when I do my show, I'm talking to the camera.
I'm talking to them like these people have been around
for years. So I will say like it's been a journey,
but I love it because I do. I love seeing
the reach that what I'm doing is having.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And there's been a lot of evolution with you too,
Like I would say, you're kind of walking duality because
you started with the site that was gossip. You've brought
a lot of people into the fold. I have to say,
I learn a lot about people that I did not
care about through your site.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
So this is the blue Face and Krashan against.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
My will Man. Yes, every time I see him, I'm like, oh,
here he is again. Damn it, Jason, why did we
do this? But on the other side of that, now
you are doing almost exactly the opposite, where you are
building up a lot of culture. You have these impact
awards now you are in politics. Did you do one
to counterbalance the other?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
No.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I think the way my CFO says it when we're
out talking to people is he says, you know, Hollywood,
Unlock really represents the uttermost to the gut ormost. You know,
we're going to follow the Kardi B's and the Krashans,
and we're going to follow the.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Rolling Rays and the Rihannas. I mean, that's literally.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
May he rest in peace you know, I executive produced
a show with him and Bobby Light's called Up Bobby,
I Love you Purr. But you know, when I had
a crisis in d C rolland Ray was the one
I gave the exclusive to. They're like, why'd you give
that exclusive to Rolling Ray? I needed to be I
needed a real journalist to roll up, okay, and Rolling
Ray was who was rolling at the time, and that
(13:24):
was my guy, you know. And I just feel like,
I don't I don't ever want to be this cultural
elitist where you have to.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Be Rihanna for me to respect you.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
No, everybody deserves to be seen and everybody deserves to
share their thing, and we as the critics, get to
sit back and go I would never treat.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
My girlfriend the way Blue Face does.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
But then there's lots of girls in the hood who
have a Blue Face boyfriend who are like, yeah, look
at how he's treating her. Wait, my man is treating
me like that. I don't like that, you know, and
so like you have to show it all. When I
was talking to these foster kids the other day, they
were like, oh my god, do you know Nlie None?
And I'm like yeah, They're like, do you ever number.
I'm like, yeah, I Rihanna's number two.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Can you call Nalie nine?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
I'm like really, And you know, like and I'm telling
them I love Natalie and I love what she's been
able to build as a CEO. But like I want
you to like look at these as role models, you know,
and there's no shade towards Nalie.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
It's just I think that I think Natalie knows what
Natalie is now.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
She owns it, but she owns it. So if you're
gonna see anything Nalie, see that she owns who she is.
She went from being a underpaid TV star on this
white owned network and went to a black owned network
in bost Up, and now she's making crazy money and
she's providing for her family and she's given other people opportunities.
You can criticize the mess, but there is what I've
learned here. Everybody out there there is a market for that,
(14:42):
of course, and that market built me.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
You know, they gave me the love and hip hop fans.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
I don't like that they still bring it up, you know,
ten eleven years later, but it's a part of my
journey and I love the fact that people were invested
in like the you know, oversized, messy, loud, nasty at times, unfiltered, unforgettable, ridiculous, unsober,
no therapy having person who's now the vice mayor of Stockton.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
You know, there you go.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That's incredible stuff. And you immediately went to Blue Face
and Krashan when I said, there are some people that
I have been educated about against my will? How many
people approach you about this exact topic because you it was,
I mean at the White House?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
They were like, please who at.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
The White House? Donald Trump?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
No, No, not this White House. I had not been
invited and would not go out of respect for the
kids that were bombed. And I ran and just I
just want to go or the women or the Epstein file.
Just I just said, it's not.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
My thing for all of Gaza or yeah, yeah, there's.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
A lot that did he put up resort there yet?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
No, but I think it's on the way.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
What's happening?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You want to talk about trash reality before that is
the Blue Face and Kryshan.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
But that's the thing, right, Like it's easy to.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Villainize blue Face and Cryshan because I get it, Like
I have this weird relationship with blue face where I
can see this beautiful person beyond the Walgreens tattoo on
his face, you.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Know what I mean, Like I can see him. I can't.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I just had him on my show where like, you know,
you know, we had we have conversations, we go, we
get into everything, and you know, he's I have this
weird thing with him, like I just like him. But Krishan,
I also have this like damn, like you're my little
cousin that I want to see you do better. But
they're just a mess. They're the train wreck that none
of us want to get on, but we just want
to watch it. I was at the White House and
they were like, oh my god, blue face of Krishan.
(16:31):
I was like really like at the White House. But
that's what people are watching. And you know, think about
when Rihanna discovered me on Loving Hip Hop.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
You know, so people are watching we all here.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And now you have her phone number. If you wanted
to call her, that's fine. I'm not going to stop
you from doing that. She's my superhero.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
People get mad at me, Well, she's leaving town today,
but people get mad at me. People get mad at
me because I talk about her, because I drop her name.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Let me just tell you something. Rihanna, Rihanna, Rihanna.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Rihanna, Rihanna.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Are you fucking nuts? It's we were with her the
other night and my friends who were there. My friend
who's right here, he's like, you know, he had a
little too much liquor and he's like, oh, I love you,
I love I said, can you stop fucking being weird?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
What is this?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
But then I had to say I get it, like
I love her so much because she sees me and
I owe and what she did with that journalist at
the met where she saw her. I said to her, like,
did you know her? And she goes, no, I just
I just looked over and this light was on her,
and I went over and I talked to her. But
I'm like, yeah, but the way you poured in her,
did you even know her husband had died and what
(17:34):
she had gone through?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
She's like, I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
I'm like, the way you poured into her was a
way that that black woman on that carpet needed to
be poured into.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Did you see her face at the end of it?
Speaker 4 (17:43):
She was like yeah, and she was like, I just
can't believe I didn't know but that's the thing I
love about her, that you want to talk about her
so much because you want people to know that, Yes,
she's a megastar, Yes she's a mom. Yes she's a
she has a man who's gorgeous by the way, she
has all these beauties.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
She's all that. But she's like literally the dopest human
being that I know.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
There will be no slander about Rihanna tolerated here none.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I love her, So are you? Is this a segue
into Tyler?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
No? But go ahead, No, no segue.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
You did it.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You're an interviewer. Let's do it.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Let me just say I love Tyler, and I think
she's gorgeous and she's talented, and I love that she
represents her culture well and she has a bright future.
And I think that with the Internet, we live in
a weird place right now where you can say and
do the wrong thing, and unless you're me, you know
who's going to fight through it and just be whatever
it's It's scary, And I just think that people like
Arihanna should always be elevated and held up for what
(18:35):
they do for our culture. And I just think she
made an error, and I'm hoping that I hear, she
feels bad, and I hope that she learns from that
experience and does better.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So for people who don't know what we're talking about,
because I do the same thing you probably do, where
I assume everybody knows all the gossips so I can
just get right into it and then people will be like,
what the fuck are you talking about? So you're talking
about at the macala. How essentially, Tyler was like, oh,
Rianna was not necessarily super nice. Maybe she was just busy,
but she seemed busy, and people took that and ran
with it. As Tyler saying, rand.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Is a bitch, and she's not that she's not that
type of person.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
She's there are some celebrities that I know who will
be like, you and I sit here, and I need
your friends to sit over there. I remember going to
dinner and she says, is it just me and you?
But if it's me you and you got somebody and
I got somebody, then it's we got people. She's like,
who you bring? I said, I'm bringing all my friends,
all of them. And I brought a table full of
my friends and she was, oh, they were all happy
(19:27):
because she wasn't just engaging me. She's engaging all of them,
she's invested in them. Last night, we went to her
son's birthday party and I brought my editor Keisha from
Hollywood Unlocked, who had interviewed Billy Porter on the carpet,
and Billy Porter had spit in her eye purposely. No,
he was just talking. When he was saying fuck her
talking about Nikki Minaj, he was like.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Fuck oh No. It was like a looky oh.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
And people on people online were like, oh, I know
that breath is hitting because it was so strong in
the mic. But you know, I didn't know what his
brestelaner because obviously I don't walk around smelling Billy Porter's smart.
But he had accidentally spit in her eye, and you know,
she just had a moment where she was like, so
I brought her last night. I was like, Yeah, this
is the girl who Billy Porter spinning her eye, and
it was just a moment where relaughed. Keisha was a
(20:13):
person that worked at a hair store, like was selling
here and she saw me looking for editors and she
lied on her resume to get the job. But when
I found out that she lied, I was like, yo,
I like the fact that you hustled me to give
you an opportunity, and now you're like one of my
strongest employees. So I always like to put her in
the room to make sure like she understands how valuable
she is to me. And I love that Rihanna pours
into her too, And that's just why I just always
(20:35):
want people to know like she's the real deal. She's
not a mean girl who's hiding in the in the
balance at a valet to make you feel like you're
not worthy, Like she's just not that person.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And everybody interprets thing so weirdly. You know, Rihanna meets
a million people in a day, but everybody that meets
her only met one Rihanna. So they're going to have
these ridiculously impactful moments that they've created in this like
parasocial relationship. What happens to all of us, And it's
not really fair, I think, to listen to a lot
of those things. Now, if you hear the same thing
over and over and over again, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
That they say I'm messy over and over and over,
but then again I have been.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Do you think you're messy sometimes? Do you think you're
so messy or.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
You have been sometimes I have to be you know,
like I did that viral clip where I said where
I got a cease and desist, and I go, oh, this,
this this athlete sends me this season desist after he
invited me to spend the night at his ranch because
I didn't want to sleep with you or I wasn't
attracted to you, and I'm gonna get a season.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I ain't get another one. I didn't say the name.
I didn't say the.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Name because everybody in the comment section did because back.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
In the day, you know, outa win and got me
a basketball and been dribbling balls and been like, see
these balls were in your jersey. But I didn't because
I am giving grace because I am an elected, honorable official,
so I do have to act honorable.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
But but but to close the lid.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
On the Rhianna thing, you know, I do forget. I mean,
I know who she is, but it's so human. The
interaction is so human and pure that you don't see
that when you see her, like you see the human being,
you see that she sees you. So when my friend
is over there going handheart, I'm like, if you don't
put that damn handheart down. And then when they try
(22:06):
to hug her for extended periods of time because you know,
she smells great, so they want her scent to be
all over them, so they're hugging.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
I'm like, yo, get your that's a salt. Get get your.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Hands off of her. But she plays into it. She
thinks it's funny.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
So when you talk about messy, I recently watched well,
I just watched it because you just posted it some
of your interview.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
With ray J.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
You can talk about messages lovely lovely. What are your
thoughts on how we are consuming messy culture right now?
Because as a society, there used to be a time
where it'd be like, ooh, let them breathe, they need help,
leave them alone, And now we're like, give me more.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Ray J.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I thought you were going to be dead like two
months ago. That's what you told us. There was blood
coming out of your eyes or something. There's weird stuff
happening and we're watching Britney Spears clacking her knives all
over the place and just weirdly enjoying it. Does that
make us horrible?
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Okay, let me say this, and it's going to be
a layered responsible. The first, let me say this as
a disclaimer, I want Chris Jenner to invite me back
to Hidden Hills to her house to eat the homemade
guacamole while she SIPs martinis like she did the time
(23:17):
I brought Cardi b I like Chris and would love
to restore my relationship with her, but I'm not gonna
be able to because she has a person over there
named Tracy Romulus, who is a horrible employee who's the
biggest cock blocker for the Kardashians.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And shit started because she's mad that she didn't get.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
The BBO to become a Kardashian and she's never gonna be,
not even an adopted daughter of a Kardashian, so them
put that out there.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I don't like Tracy Rames.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
I didn't think so, so let me say, because she's
been the person that has destroyed the relationship I had
with the Kardashians. I me and Rob Kardashian used to
be friends. He introduced me to his mom, who I
was like, I mean, I have emails and stuff where
I was like, yo, mom, you know, because I like
I love. I admired how a woman could take a
lemon and build a lemonade franchise because she's a boss.
(24:03):
You can't take that from it. The woman got bought
a whole brand new face. For those of you who
thinks that she's she could do whatever she wants Chris Jenner.
Now that being said, and here's where I think I'm
never going to be invited back to her house. Why
can't the Kardashians go out and buy all these butts,
change all these faces, build billion dollar brands and not
be labeled messy. But ray J's messy, you know, like
(24:24):
think about it. Ray J is messy. Kim Kardashian has
been messy, Chris Jenner has been messy, Bruce Jenner.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Their brand was built on mess.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Their empire is.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
But the message has been there are just victims by
ray J's antics. And now ray J is saying, we ah, wait,
we did a deal. We sat around the table, we
shot this first sex tape. It wasn't messy enough, so
she said, go slap my daughter up at a hotel
and come back and let me review it and see
if I can edit this thing into it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I can't even imagine my mom right, And.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
He did that allegedly, and then he has three tapes
allegedly where they sat on a plane and allegedly talked
about how they were going to distribute it, and then
they filed a fake lawsuit allegedly to get the distribution
to make sense allegedly, and then now he's being sued
for alleging what they allegedly did. I'm not messy, I'm
just a platform. I'm the one going back going. Who
(25:20):
in their right mind could say to their child go
over there and do something sluttier, you underperformed. Ray J
called Brandy and say you want to be down because
your best friend is ready to go over there and
sit up in her room and get this video done.
That's what they did, allegedly, and so I'm just airing
it now. And you know, yeah, he says his heart
is dying and failing and his blood is coming out
of his eye, and there's people say it's not true,
(25:42):
it's raggie. I don't know what's true what's not true,
But what is true is that that was a really
spicy conversation.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Did you see it?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I did crazy and I was fascinated by the whole thing,
especially not to go too deep into it, but there's
a difference between fame and power. Chris Jenner seems like
she has both of them right, massive amounts of power.
And one of the things that you did ask him
was she got it like to the point where she
could just hire someone to kill someone. Yeah, And he
said she definitely could. How do we know she hasn't.
I'm not saying she has.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
He said that, Yes, he said that. He said that.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
And that's why when when Chris's last text to me
was kind of a threat, I had to text her
back and say, you gonna find somebody that don't give
a fuck, and you just found that person. And I
had to put it all in writing because if she
ever tries to kill me, I would go straight to
my podcast and say, TikTok, do your thing. She's trying
to kill me, and I wouldn't be above it. And
then I would launch a campaign on surviving Chris Jenner,
(26:32):
you know, and it would be a short form series
on TikTok where I am like in hidden hills, like
jumping out of bushes doing I would create the most
viral content dodging this assassination attempt by Chris.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
But I want to go over and eat guacamole because
I do like guac, but like, are.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
You going to poison me? Chris? Am I going to.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Die after I eat that little avocado that she put
just for me? Like, I don't know, I just I'm
so confused that how we got here. But we are other.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Questions about all of this was You do get into
the weeds with people. You have interviews where you ask
the things that people want to know, and sometimes it
could get contentious. You guys post all kinds of stuff,
whether it's Cardi B screaming at stuff on digs, whatever's
going on, and she's your friend. You guys are tight. Yes,
so are there people I can only imagine aside from
the cease and desist letter? Are you ever nervous about
(27:21):
the way people are reacting to the things that you're posting.
You don't feel like you have to run around with security?
You just feel fine?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
No, No, I do have security, Like if you know, today,
I'm popping in and out of radio show, so I'm
not going to have security with me. But like if
I'm going to a club, I'm going to have security.
And my security instructions are very clear, like you kill
them if they try to kill me, you make sure
I get home and they will go with me somewhere
and they will follow me home. Or you know, if
(27:47):
I'm if I'm out doing things, giving out toys or
having a big event at a park as the vice mayor.
You know, I have my own We have the police,
but I have my own security, and they're everywhere. You know, people,
we live in a crazy time right now. Just right now,
they posted something crazy Democrat vice mayor trying to get
fifty eight million dollars. And then now I got people
like in my DMS like you nigger, I'm going to
(28:08):
gut you like because they believe what they've seen. So
I'm like working with meta to address all those things. Yeah,
I'm very mindful of those things. But you know, when
I see Carti and Stefan arguing at a coffee shop,
I just cent her the eyes like I see you,
you know, and she will respond or not respond. And
you know, at the end of the day, I want
my friends to be happy, all of them. I want
everybody to be happy.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
You know. I was talking with Lizzo the other day
and she called him.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
I was listening to her as a human being with
her vulnerabilities, and she knows that if I'm an interview.
I'm going to set her up to talk about those things,
but we have to talk about the things that fans
are wanting to see too, And I want to say
here as an exclusive. Rihanna told me she's coming on
the Jason Lee Show. She said that full interview. She
knows I'm going to ask her all the things, and
so I want to say it here because she said,
(28:52):
you can go and say it because I'm going to
do it. So this is a part of us, both us,
me and you, Gandhi holding Rihanna accountable to that interview
because she says she's going to give.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
It to you.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I can't wait. I can't wait either to ask all
the things.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I actually really appreciate that about you, because I think
that we're in this weird time with media where yes,
people have friends, and I'm sure at some point there
have been stories that you haven't released because of the
human cost or I know more or you know more. Yes, okay,
But also it seems like this level of authenticity that
everybody tries to say they have is actually really not
(29:25):
all that authentic anymore. Celebrities are now pretty much curated.
You can pay for bots, you can pay for the
clappers or clippers, whatever the hell those things are called. Yeah,
you can pay. I'm sure that there are ways to
pay for advertising on your site with him, ever, and
it's like the authentic rise to start on because somebody
was truly a star doesn't seem like it's really there anymore.
(29:45):
Now it's like the Hawktua girl making one statement and
then she has a bitcoin grab and it's what is happening.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
In hok to a girl? Let me tell you? Do
you know that they were going to take her to
the DNC why?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Somebody said, what do you think about Howktua for Comma?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I said, I said, let me tell you something.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Kamala wasn't but somebody in the mix was having a
conversation about introducing that viral. Please stop playing with me.
But here here's what I will say. Yeah, and it is.
It's frustrating because I when I moved my show over
to BT, I did it symbolically for a couple of reasons.
One that's where I tried to start, and I wasn't
ready too. They were launching the Lewis Cars, launching the
(30:25):
Creative Creative Creator Studio program to be able to give
black creators platforms. I thought, Oh, I'm gonna be the
flagship brand. That's great for me. It's great for me
to use my voice. I've always been a champion of
other color, creators of color to have an opportunity. So
like it was symbolically and it was strategically for me
to do that, but it was also a test to see, BT,
are you really about this life? Because now this is
(30:48):
not the Bible Belt, you know, Bobby Jones Gospel show.
This is like Blue Face Today, Ray j Tomorrow, my
sprinkle in, Michelle Obama because we love her, She's the
goat Rihanna. We're going I head over to Suki, you know,
because it's the uttermost to the guttormost, it's all of it.
And I think that BT taking that risk with me
(31:08):
speaks to the direction the brand's going because the landscape
is changing. To your point, I hate the curation of stars.
You're either a star, you're not. You either have something
to say or you don't. I don't want to talk
to people that are on a promo run because the
network wants me to. I want to talk to who
I want to talk to. When I want to talk
to him, and that's the flexible I've been able to
have with the Jason Lee Show, regardless of where it's been.
And it's really frustrating when celebrities are just afraid to.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Just be honest. You know.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Now, I will say the roaster Kevin Hart with that
guy that did the George Floyd joke, Tony Has, I
see the conversation of its comedy and we got to
go back to the Eddie Murphy raw days. But I
also know we do live in a world where social
media is whatever, and him dying was a major thing
for the culture. So like, I get both sides of
(31:54):
the conversation.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
That one's a hard one. The cancel culture in general
is a really tough one because I actually don't think
cancel culture is a real thing many people. The news
cycle is so fast, Yes, Hi fly from across the room.
The news cycles so fast. People just really get outraged
for a minute and then they move on from it.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Fifteen minutes or a day, they'll be gone.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And if we have once again the guy running the
office of a White House that we have, other people
should not be getting canceled. That being said, you know,
celebrities far more than I do the ins and outs
of them? Do you think there are some that should
be canceled that we just applaud and love all the time.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
The only celebrities and I can't think of one in
my mind that I can say this person needs to
be canceled. But what I would say is any celebrity
who looks like us, and if they're a woman of
color or a black man or gay of whatever, that
knows what they had to go through to get there,
forgets what we're going through to get there, and doesn't
reach back.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I don't respect that.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Like I respect one person that I don't know, but
I was able to give her flowers recent on a
carpet who I don't we're not friends by any measure,
is Violea Davis like she always uses her platform from
consistently to talk about the issues in advancement of people
of color and women. I think Joy Reid is another
person who I know text with the other day who
I'm like yo, like, I have a lot of respect
(33:11):
for her, but I don't really know her like that.
I think there's people out there that are that know it,
you know, to be able to see Don Lemon now
in his rise as an independent creator, knowing where he
came from and the challenges he went over there and
now what he's learning as an independent newsperson. So I
love seeing that, but I hate There's nothing worse than
when you know who I am, but you'll deny me
access to something because of Hollywood or lock. But Jeff Bezos,
(33:34):
who owns Washington Post in Washington, in Washington, can walk
right through the door. So it's like in their mind
they don't understand the microaggressions or the little racism or
the lack of you know, like you know, they don't
understan they don't see it because it's just well, they
say he's messy. It isn't Elon Musk giving two hundred
and fifty million dollars to the president to get him
(33:55):
in only to go and take federal contracts eight million
dollars a day.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Isn't that messy? But that's not mess that's just Elon.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
We have to stop this disspirit capitalism, and we have
to stop this dispirit application.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Of the rules, like the rules.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Apply to women, white women differently the women of color, men,
white men differently than black men, black men differently than black,
gay men, like, we have to stop all that.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
What is the rule, what is the standard? Where's the bar?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
The bar in government has been so low now that
a two year old can step over it, right, but
the bar still for us black politicians are black elected officials,
a Jasmine Crockett or a Kamala Harris is much higher.
So I think we need to have those conversations.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Donnie Brown when she was brought into the Supreme Court,
the amount of people saying she wasn't qualified when she
is the most qualified person there, and then the assholes
that you bring behind her, it's it's mind blowing because,
as you know, to get to a certain place, and
people love to throw around the terms DEI higher. I
get that a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
They call me the di vice mayor.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Did you know that you only because you told me that?
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yes, but the vice mayor.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
That's ridiculous because it's so much harder as a person
of color to traverse these pathways. Nobody sees that part
of it. Nobody sees the struggle. They see a person
of color in a place that they don't think you belong,
and all of a sudden you've gotten a leg up,
when in fact, you've worked twice as hard for half
as much and it's really a struggle, which you had
Candice Owens on your show. She man, let me tell you,
(35:22):
she's one of those people that you were talking about
where I'm like, you know what we've gone through, and
you suit your high school because of discrimination based on race,
and now you have the big old balls to come
out here and take the other side on everything. Is
that authentic or is that a character that she plays
to get the attention, because no celebrity is really authentical.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
She really believes it though, And the crazy part was
she was she was sitting there rubbing her stomach. I'm like,
what if your kid comes out gay? She's like, my
kid's not gonna be gay. I'm like, well, what if
your kid is gay or trance? My kid would never
because that's a mental health issue. Like really, so she's
not even aware. Maybe she is that you're saying to
(36:02):
a gay person that he has a mental health issue, right,
he's gay, but.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Like and also it was a choice and mental health and.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
She couldn't even see that your kid could be gay
and she couldn't say that she would still love her kid,
you know. So to me that was more telling of
the type of person she is, because most people say,
I would love my kid no matter what. Right my
kid comes out with no hands, I'm still gonna teach
him how to wave. You know, No, that's not cantis own.
She could not see it. But you know, there were
(36:29):
people that said, why are you talking to Canizonan? Why
are you giving her platform? She has a platform, she's Cantazonan.
Why not have the conversation because there's going to be
people that see any conversation.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I interview Robert F. Kenny Jr. Do I agree with
any in all of what he said?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
No?
Speaker 4 (36:42):
But I saw some things there and we're like, okay,
I get that, or I get that. One of the
questions was if you lose, are you going to work
with Trump? He didn't answer, Well, obviously we know the
answer now. But people would criticize me, why are you
Why are you interviewing Krashan? Why are you interviewing Canason?
I interview people. That's what I do. I have conversations.
You get to decide which of those you like and
don't like in the comments.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I would love to have candas Os on this show.
I told oh, I absolutely would. I just got a
lot of questions. Here's the thing, like you were saying
about RFK Junior, a broken clock is right twice a day.
So yeah, you can find little pieces of things that
are true and what's being said, but the clock is
still broken. So with Candace, now this this turn ever
since Charlie Kirk died, and now she is, you know,
(37:23):
railing against MAGA and she's on the other side, and
people say, oh my god, I can't. I can't believe.
I find myself agreeing with candas owns. You don't she
agrees with you. You've been saying these things. She finally
saw the light in some capacity whatever's going on over
there and now is going in some other direction. But
she's still a broken clock, and I don't want people
to forget that. Yes, that's wild.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Yeah, I see what she's doing.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
And when she came on my show, I saw you
just you want my audience, like you want to shift
into more people following whatever it is that you're putting out.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And I see a lot of.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
People, like, you know, a lot of black folks saying
I agree with her here, I agree with her there
because you're you know, all black back women or all
women of color can identify with being treated invisible or
so everybody can relate to that. So she's finding ways
of relating to people to bring them back to her
message of discrimination and hate, ignorance at times, or whatever.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
And you know she can.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
She's articulate, so she'll make you think she's not a fool.
But if you listen to her long enough, you'll be like,
you a damn fool.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Right, you're very well spoken idiot that part. And I'm
here for all of these things I want to hear about.
I want to have the deep conversations with people that
are more than just what we get to do on
the show, which is ten to fifteen minutes and someone's
in and out. You don't really get to sit and
get to know them. I think there's just so much.
And I like that you say from the uttermost to
the gut ormost, because in a dream world that's how
(38:42):
things would go.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Is there any celebrity that you basically created because you've
platformed a lot of these people, like blue Face, I
wouldn't known anything about them if it wasn't for you.
Is there anyone that you regret having platformed and now
they have the attention of the world.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
No, No, I don't regret any of my interviews, all
of them.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
I mean I will say one person that I look
back and I'm like, why did I have her on?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
You may not even know who this person? Do you
know who Woa Vicki is? Oh?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
My god? Yeah, I'm sad that I know.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Okay, I had Woe Vicki on years ago.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
She just like found Jesus not too long they all have.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
And I had to really stop the interview because and
say to her like, when you say the N word, do.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
You understand how ridiculous you are?
Speaker 4 (39:23):
And her person was like, if you watch it, she's
like inching her seat closer, closer to I get. She's like,
now in between me and WHOA Vicki at the table
like this as I'm talking on, I go, first of all,
you're not invited in the interview, so you need to
back up, and I'm asking you, like, do you understand ridiculous?
In that moment, I didn't realize, but now looking back
like that was an unnecessary interview, Like why did I
(39:46):
just did it? Because she was viral and it was
like whatever, But now I know my platform, I'm like,
I want to talk to the people I want to
talk to when I want to talk to them, and
so I don't. I don't know that I regret it,
but it was like, why did I do that?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
And if people don't know who wo VICKI is, I
don't even know how to explain her. She is a creature,
she is white, she she I don't even know what
I would call her, like an Internet sensation. I would not.
She's just this girl who acts hood and found Jesus
and I don't know what she's up to. I don't
how would you explain.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Her the way you just did?
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Okay, there you go. Yeah, she's one of those people
that I see and I'm like, God, why how did
you get into my algorithm? I must have made some
mistakes here. Yeah, that's not great. Okay, that's a good
place to pause because there is so much more on
the way. Just to tease, I asked him, essentially, who
(40:42):
is the worst celebrity? And he answered, and he gave
us why, and then he called me crazy for something
that I said. That's all coming in the next episode.
But Jason Lee Hollywood Unlocked, you should go check it out.
There's a lot of interesting stuff over there. Again, you're
probably gonna be inundated with things that you never ever
want to see in your life. But you're gonna see
(41:02):
a lot of really fascinating stuff too. There's a lot
of truth in these allegations. Notice how many times he
will say allegedly, I love it. I need to learn
that anything I've said was alleged. A disclaimer for the
next time, alleged everything is alleged. Okay, Diamond, and people
want to find you online? How can they do that
(41:25):
at Diamond? Since here on Instagram and I am at
Baby Hot Sauce Instagram, tw tweeds, threads, Twitter, wherever come
find us. Please follow the page on Instagram, Sauce on
the side. You know what's wild is we do this
podcast once a week and we put it out and
we talk about it all the time, and the Instagram
page is pretty slow to grow. My art page, which
(41:48):
I love that people follow. Please go follow Zoga Underscore
Made zo Ga Underscore Made. That's our art page. We
don't really talk about it all that much or push
it all that much. It's got like night, teen thousand
followers are our page is kicking my podcast pages as huh.
I wonder why maybe we need to do.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
We should do a mashup a clip of the most
fascinating thing that we talked about in a specific episode. Okay,
with an overlap what is it? Time lapse of you
painting company?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Oh? I have so many time lapses.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Somebody told us we needed to start a TikTok channel
of just the time laps because people love it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I was like, okay, maybe we will. You should a
lot of big ideas over here, all right, So follow
the page like follow subscribe if you can, because when
you subscribe, the podcast just shows up for you. Bam,
It's right there. You don't have to go search it out,
and if for some reason something goes down, it will
still be there for you and leave us a review
or talk back. You just hit the little microphone button
(42:46):
if you're listening on the iHeartRadio app, and you can
tell us your thoughts and feelings on things, and we'll
be back with the second half of Jason Lee next week. Okay,
say bye bye.
Alls on the side. What's up. It's Gandhi and I'm
here with Diamond Heiller. Hi Hi ooh, I said Heller.
And we're going to be talking a little bit about
Tyler Perry today. We have somebody on the show that
I'm excited about, and it's going to be two episodes
because we talked to him for such a long time.
His name is Jason Lee. If you don't know who
(00:24):
Jason Lee is, you're about to find out. Jason Lee
has been in my realm of pop culture for quite
some time now. I think maybe for the people of color,
you definitely know who he is. It's not the white
guy from Mall Rats. It is the guy who started
and maintains Hollywood Unlocked. He was on Love and Hip Hop.
(00:46):
He has brought us some of the trashiest shit that
we will ever see in our lifetimes. But also he
does some really cool stuff too. So I think we're
going to talk about all of that. No, I know
we're going to because we already recorded this. But Diamond,
what did you what was your takeaway from any it?
Or shall we talk about that after?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay, fine, I've always been a fan of his I
didn't like him on Love and Hip Hop. But I
started following Hollywood Unlocked from watching Love and Hip Hop okay,
and just the way that he maintains relationships with these
celebrities while also telling us their business.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
It's ten out of ten something to be studied.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Like I was telling someone who didn't know him that
he and Hollywood Unlocked or who broke the Jordan Woods
Tristan Thompson stuff, And so I was like, yeah, no,
he's that guy, like.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Hello, he has all the tea all the time, he
knows it, he names names, He's not afraid to say
the things that I think a lot of other people
would be like, oh, are you sure? You wanted to say,
He's fine with it, and you're gonna hear a lot
of that. So let's get to it. I am here
(01:54):
with Jason Lee of I was gonna say of Hollywood Unlocked,
but you've taken a step back a little bit from
a want to and now you have a million different
projects going on.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, go ahead, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So you are a philanthropist, Yes I am. You are
a vice mayor of Stockton.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Still I sure, am you are?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You are an entrepreneur, Yes, you are involved in a
million different things.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yes, right, I'm an author.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You're an author, You're a culture critic.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
I'm a culture critic. I own an award show, the
Impact Awards.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
We're going to talk about those.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yeah, I do a lot.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I have a lot of different hats, and you know what,
I believe that we all can be anything we want.
I just chose to be at all at once.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
You're right, Donald Trump is president. If he can do that,
can't we do it.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
We've only been in this for a minute and you're
bringing up a kidnapper at a school, bomber, a mass
destructor of the White House?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Are you and figuratively argue maybe a thief.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
He's married to an immigrant who's not black and brown,
so she's not really an immigrant.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I don't know. I mean, yeah, don't start with me.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, you are all of these things. You wear a
lot of hats. Is there one specifically that you are
proud of at the moment?
Speaker 4 (03:01):
At the moment, you know, I will say I'm you know,
they announced say that I'm getting the BT black and
iconic word.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Very exciting.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Congratulations on May twenty third, which is my brother who
was murdered's birthday, And I'm doing it at DC Pride
as a member of the LGBT community. So it's like
summarizing all the important things in one moment for me.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
So I'm proud about that.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
So roll I had I would say today, you know,
I am happy to be the vice mayor of a
city that created me, that a city that in many ways,
you know, I could have lost everything my life. I
lost my mom, I lost my family, I lost friends,
I lost my freedom to foster care and all those things.
But like, it's so great to show kids when I
go to speak at their schools or speak at events
(03:45):
and watch these kids who are like fans of my
day job, and they see me and they're like, yo,
I hope that you see yourself and me. The other day,
me and the California State Treasurer and the school district superintendent,
doctor Rodriguez, we created a Hope program for foster kids.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
We're in California.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
We launched this pilot program in Stockton where kids, foster
kids can get up to three thousand dollars to transition
out of high school into the real world. And I
and when I was preparing my remarks, I found myself
getting emotional because I'm looking at this group of foster kids.
You had a couple of hundred foster kids there, and
They're all like sitting there looking at me, and I'm thinking, Okay,
what can I say that I can leave them with?
And I just said, you know, just remember that your
voice matters, and wherever you take your voice, don't let
(04:22):
anybody try to take it from you. You know, like
you're the future mayors in the audience, the future president,
you know, and like these kids, like watching them soak
that in and believe it like that, that made me
really proud.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
You get to be the representation you needed to see
growing up.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
I think about that.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Too, especially in today's times.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, right, where like as a woman of color, right,
you know, they won't even ask you what is your
lineage or what is your ethnicity or what is your background.
It's like you a woman of color. So like you
get in that woman of color box. They have a
box for you, they have two boxes for you. You know,
we are in a country where men are gonna tell
white men are going to tell you like what you
can do with your body in which you can't.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, let's start talking about their testicles. What are we
going to do with it down please.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
They can make so many more babies than I.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Can take care of them, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
It's wild. I actually we were talking about this because
there is this man in radio who is an icon,
and I applied for a job with him a very
long time ago, and he actually said to me, he
said it. He didn't write it. He said, if you
were a white girl with blonde hair, I would have
hired you five years ago. But the city that I'm
in doesn't really lean this way. So unfortunately, it's just
not a good fit. And everybody was appalled.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
And I thought, well, he said it in front of people.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
He said, well, he said it in front of one person.
When I told that story, everybody I was with was appalled,
and I said, one, that's not new. That's not a
new thing. We encounter that all the time. But too,
I was kind of glad that he actually said it,
because it was better than me wondering does my personality suck?
Am I just not a good fit? What could I
have done differently? If what I could have done differently
is nothing? Okay? Right, whatever, it's not great, And I
am glad to what we were talking about earlier that now
(05:54):
I get to be the person I wanted to see.
That's awesome. It was a moment in my life that
I'm like, I'm glad that that happened.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
But it didn't motivate you.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
It doesn't. It doesn't because I am so many more
things than just that, and I lean into it. I
will always be a woman of color I walk down
the street. I'm not peeling it off. That is me forever. Yeah,
I can't hide it. I don't want to. But I
also think that it just made me say, okay, cool,
Well I'm not for you. At some point I'll be
for somebody else. But I'm always going to be me.
(06:23):
I'm not going to try to change things so that
maybe I blend in with white culture more and oh
you can't tell because of my voice or whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It is.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So it motivates me in the way that I want
to see more of me in more places. But it
didn't change a ton. It didn't hurt my feelings. It
wasn't anything ichy, like.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yeah, that's what I said. That's why I say, like,
you can code switch without switching up.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I was just with Bows the other day and me
and her were having a conversation. We were at an
event in Beverly Hills and it was a bunch of
white folks in US and you know, we were literally
a magnet to the whole room. And I was digging
her up and she was like, he's a media tight
and I was, ooh, I'm going to add that to
my bio. I'm a media type, you know. But I
find you know, glass ceilings are made to be broken.
(07:03):
Glasses is made to be broken. So what I say,
did you lean into? I mean, obviously you are where
you are. I mean Elvis is he's still a white man, right, Yeah, Okay,
he's a white gay man, right. And you know, you
look at Howard Stern who has Robin and all of us.
We all have value and add value. But no matter
how far we want to go or what we want
to do, that glass was literally created to be broken.
(07:24):
You just have to have the courage to throw a
rock and like, you're going to miss, You're going to
break it, You're going to piss people off that you
broke it, and you're just gonna have to keep throwing
the rock.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
That's how.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Yeah, you might get cut up, you know, and it's okay,
there are bandages for that. And you figure it out
and you keep going. And this rise has been hard.
And you know, sometimes I will say, even as like
an elected official, now you're you're you're pulled into this
group of people who create chaos and distraction and destruction
and who are in it for the wrong reasons. And
then now you're a part of that class. So it's
(07:57):
like going to a school that you love because you
want to be in the school, but when you get there,
like all the people are shitty and they're all doing
shitty things, so you're shitty too.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
So I find myself checking people online like yo, hold
on the council did not do that, that's shitty, as
mayor Nick, then they did that. I have to repeatedly
remind them like, yes, I'm a part of that group,
but some of us are voting this way and some
of us are voting that way.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And it's important for me to always make the distinction.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And if you don't make the distinction, someone's going to
just make the assumption for you. So it's very important
to your point to always use your voice always, but
your assent to where you are now. Media Titan has
been fascinating because you started out in a very non
traditional way kind of becoming a journalist. Yes, were you
prepared for what was on the way? Did you ever
think that starting this, how would we say what Hollywood
(08:44):
Unlocked is a lot of people say it's a gossip site.
You talk about celebrities, you post all the t you
have now spun off from that. You have your own
podcast that is well digital platform, the Jason Lee Show,
where you interview all kinds of people. You are friends
with Cardi b with Rihanna, lot of famous people. But
this all started as a gossip thing. At what point
(09:05):
did you realize it was so much more than just commentary.
It was becoming influential.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yeah, my friend who's here, you know, he's been around
for twenty years and he I remember literally we were
sitting in my studio apartment that I had painted gray.
By the way, if you ever paint your walls, don't
paint him gray.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
It's like you good.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
It's like I was just like I was in juvenile
hall again, like why am I? Why did I Why
did I paint this?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
She is grey wall? Yeah? Gray gray?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
It was like gray, and we didn't we weren't on
the side where there was a lot of suns. So
I was like literally living in depression. But like twenty
years ago when I had the studio apartment, I had
all these different ideas. I didn't know where it was
going to land. I just knew like, I love Hollywood culture,
celebrity culture, I love the news. I love being able
to provide another perspective because there's things that people are
(09:52):
saying that are happening that are not. So I'm going
to unlock Hollywood through Hollywood Unlocked. And then when I
saw the boom of podcasting or no, when I saw
on Loving hip Hop, how they were trying to control
my narrative. You're going to be the gay bloger, that's
who you are. I'm like, no, I'm much more than that.
I'm I'm not the some of my sexuality or the
sum of gossip. And honestly, in my real life, I
don't like to gossip. I just like to criticize what
I see happening. So until Charlomagne gave me the culture
(10:14):
critic title, I was just kind of Jason Lee, who
was out there just you know, creating wreckage on the Internet.
But then as I went on Love and hip Hop,
and I didn't know final cut, like being in control
of your shows by editing. So I launched a podcast
that was uncensored so people could see the unfiltered Jason.
Then that started right and then NJ I just started
like leveraging audiences MTV while I'm out in love and
(10:35):
hip hop and vh one all that. And then at
some point I started seeing like, Okay, I'm reaching people everywhere,
So now I need to be very smart and strategic
about high reaches. So if I wanted, if I want
to grow, I know I have to do some growth hacking.
I have to have big opinions, be loud, be fearless,
and still pop out. So I would burn the internet
down and then I would go right in the party
(10:57):
and people are being like, we're your security, yet I
ain't got no security, but I got that microphone I'm
gonna go back to, you know. And so I was
always fearless, but you know, I started realizing that I
had a lot more responsibility too with that voice. And
I think when people start recognizing me and and people
start just speaking back to me everything I was saying,
I was like, yeah, I'm onto something.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Funny story. I was in Atlanta on a date with
this guy, cute guy.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
We pull up to this brunch spot and he goes,
oh my god, the line's around the corner.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
We're not going to get a table. I go, we
don't get a table.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
You know they're going to give They're gonna give me
a table. So we get out. I get us a table,
and we're in there and we're talking and everybody's coming
up to me having different conversations. One lady's like, oh
my god, I know you don't like people talking to
you when you're eating, and I know you're on a
day because obviously this is your type. And she starts
speaking to the type and I'm like, excuse me, like
(11:49):
he can hear you, you know. And then like this
other lady wants to talk to me about her man,
and you saved my life when you did this, and
I can't believe you did that.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And he goes, how do all these people do you know?
All these people? I said no.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
He goes, well, why why are they all talking to
you like they know you? And I go, yeah, because
when I do my show, I'm talking to the camera.
I'm talking to them like these people have been around
for years. So I will say like it's been a journey,
but I love it because I do. I love seeing
the reach that what I'm doing is having.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And there's been a lot of evolution with you too,
Like I would say, you're kind of walking duality because
you started with the site that was gossip. You've brought
a lot of people into the fold. I have to say,
I learn a lot about people that I did not
care about through your site.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
So this is the blue Face and Krashan against.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
My will Man. Yes, every time I see him, I'm like, oh,
here he is again. Damn it, Jason, why did we
do this? But on the other side of that, now
you are doing almost exactly the opposite, where you are
building up a lot of culture. You have these impact
awards now you are in politics. Did you do one
to counterbalance the other?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
No.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I think the way my CFO says it when we're
out talking to people is he says, you know, Hollywood,
Unlock really represents the uttermost to the gut ormost. You know,
we're going to follow the Kardi B's and the Krashans,
and we're going to follow the.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Rolling Rays and the Rihannas. I mean, that's literally.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
May he rest in peace you know, I executive produced
a show with him and Bobby Light's called Up Bobby,
I Love you Purr. But you know, when I had
a crisis in d C rolland Ray was the one
I gave the exclusive to. They're like, why'd you give
that exclusive to Rolling Ray? I needed to be I
needed a real journalist to roll up, okay, and Rolling
Ray was who was rolling at the time, and that
(13:24):
was my guy, you know. And I just feel like,
I don't I don't ever want to be this cultural
elitist where you have to.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Be Rihanna for me to respect you.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
No, everybody deserves to be seen and everybody deserves to
share their thing, and we as the critics, get to
sit back and go I would never treat.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
My girlfriend the way Blue Face does.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
But then there's lots of girls in the hood who
have a Blue Face boyfriend who are like, yeah, look
at how he's treating her. Wait, my man is treating
me like that. I don't like that, you know, and
so like you have to show it all. When I
was talking to these foster kids the other day, they
were like, oh my god, do you know Nlie None?
And I'm like yeah, They're like, do you ever number.
I'm like, yeah, I Rihanna's number two.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Can you call Nalie nine?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
I'm like really, And you know, like and I'm telling
them I love Natalie and I love what she's been
able to build as a CEO. But like I want
you to like look at these as role models, you know,
and there's no shade towards Nalie.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
It's just I think that I think Natalie knows what
Natalie is now.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
She owns it, but she owns it. So if you're
gonna see anything Nalie, see that she owns who she is.
She went from being a underpaid TV star on this
white owned network and went to a black owned network
in bost Up, and now she's making crazy money and
she's providing for her family and she's given other people opportunities.
You can criticize the mess, but there is what I've
learned here. Everybody out there there is a market for that,
(14:42):
of course, and that market built me.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
You know, they gave me the love and hip hop fans.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
I don't like that they still bring it up, you know,
ten eleven years later, but it's a part of my
journey and I love the fact that people were invested
in like the you know, oversized, messy, loud, nasty at times, unfiltered, unforgettable, ridiculous, unsober,
no therapy having person who's now the vice mayor of Stockton.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
You know, there you go.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That's incredible stuff. And you immediately went to Blue Face
and Krashan when I said, there are some people that
I have been educated about against my will? How many
people approach you about this exact topic because you it was,
I mean at the White House?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
They were like, please who at.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
The White House? Donald Trump?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
No, No, not this White House. I had not been
invited and would not go out of respect for the
kids that were bombed. And I ran and just I
just want to go or the women or the Epstein file.
Just I just said, it's not.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
My thing for all of Gaza or yeah, yeah, there's.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
A lot that did he put up resort there yet?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
No, but I think it's on the way.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
What's happening?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You want to talk about trash reality before that is
the Blue Face and Kryshan.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
But that's the thing, right, Like it's easy to.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Villainize blue Face and Cryshan because I get it, Like
I have this weird relationship with blue face where I
can see this beautiful person beyond the Walgreens tattoo on
his face, you.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Know what I mean, Like I can see him. I can't.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I just had him on my show where like, you know,
you know, we had we have conversations, we go, we
get into everything, and you know, he's I have this
weird thing with him, like I just like him. But Krishan,
I also have this like damn, like you're my little
cousin that I want to see you do better. But
they're just a mess. They're the train wreck that none
of us want to get on, but we just want
to watch it. I was at the White House and
they were like, oh my god, blue face of Krishan.
(16:31):
I was like really like at the White House. But
that's what people are watching. And you know, think about
when Rihanna discovered me on Loving Hip Hop.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
You know, so people are watching we all here.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And now you have her phone number. If you wanted
to call her, that's fine. I'm not going to stop
you from doing that. She's my superhero.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
People get mad at me, Well, she's leaving town today,
but people get mad at me. People get mad at
me because I talk about her, because I drop her name.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Let me just tell you something. Rihanna, Rihanna, Rihanna.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Rihanna, Rihanna.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Are you fucking nuts? It's we were with her the
other night and my friends who were there. My friend
who's right here, he's like, you know, he had a
little too much liquor and he's like, oh, I love you,
I love I said, can you stop fucking being weird?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
What is this?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
But then I had to say I get it, like
I love her so much because she sees me and
I owe and what she did with that journalist at
the met where she saw her. I said to her, like,
did you know her? And she goes, no, I just
I just looked over and this light was on her,
and I went over and I talked to her. But
I'm like, yeah, but the way you poured in her,
did you even know her husband had died and what
(17:34):
she had gone through?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
She's like, I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
I'm like, the way you poured into her was a
way that that black woman on that carpet needed to
be poured into.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Did you see her face at the end of it?
Speaker 4 (17:43):
She was like yeah, and she was like, I just
can't believe I didn't know but that's the thing I
love about her, that you want to talk about her
so much because you want people to know that, Yes,
she's a megastar, Yes she's a mom. Yes she's a
she has a man who's gorgeous by the way, she
has all these beauties.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
She's all that. But she's like literally the dopest human
being that I know.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
There will be no slander about Rihanna tolerated here none.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I love her, So are you? Is this a segue
into Tyler?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
No? But go ahead, No, no segue.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
You did it.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You're an interviewer. Let's do it.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Let me just say I love Tyler, and I think
she's gorgeous and she's talented, and I love that she
represents her culture well and she has a bright future.
And I think that with the Internet, we live in
a weird place right now where you can say and
do the wrong thing, and unless you're me, you know
who's going to fight through it and just be whatever
it's It's scary, And I just think that people like
Arihanna should always be elevated and held up for what
(18:35):
they do for our culture. And I just think she
made an error, and I'm hoping that I hear, she
feels bad, and I hope that she learns from that
experience and does better.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So for people who don't know what we're talking about,
because I do the same thing you probably do, where
I assume everybody knows all the gossips so I can
just get right into it and then people will be like,
what the fuck are you talking about? So you're talking
about at the macala. How essentially, Tyler was like, oh,
Rianna was not necessarily super nice. Maybe she was just busy,
but she seemed busy, and people took that and ran
with it. As Tyler saying, rand.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Is a bitch, and she's not that she's not that
type of person.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
She's there are some celebrities that I know who will
be like, you and I sit here, and I need
your friends to sit over there. I remember going to
dinner and she says, is it just me and you?
But if it's me you and you got somebody and
I got somebody, then it's we got people. She's like,
who you bring? I said, I'm bringing all my friends,
all of them. And I brought a table full of
my friends and she was, oh, they were all happy
(19:27):
because she wasn't just engaging me. She's engaging all of them,
she's invested in them. Last night, we went to her
son's birthday party and I brought my editor Keisha from
Hollywood Unlocked, who had interviewed Billy Porter on the carpet,
and Billy Porter had spit in her eye purposely. No,
he was just talking. When he was saying fuck her
talking about Nikki Minaj, he was like.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Fuck oh No. It was like a looky oh.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
And people on people online were like, oh, I know
that breath is hitting because it was so strong in
the mic. But you know, I didn't know what his
brestelaner because obviously I don't walk around smelling Billy Porter's smart.
But he had accidentally spit in her eye, and you know,
she just had a moment where she was like, so
I brought her last night. I was like, Yeah, this
is the girl who Billy Porter spinning her eye, and
it was just a moment where relaughed. Keisha was a
(20:13):
person that worked at a hair store, like was selling
here and she saw me looking for editors and she
lied on her resume to get the job. But when
I found out that she lied, I was like, yo,
I like the fact that you hustled me to give
you an opportunity, and now you're like one of my
strongest employees. So I always like to put her in
the room to make sure like she understands how valuable
she is to me. And I love that Rihanna pours
into her too, And that's just why I just always
(20:35):
want people to know like she's the real deal. She's
not a mean girl who's hiding in the in the
balance at a valet to make you feel like you're
not worthy, Like she's just not that person.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And everybody interprets thing so weirdly. You know, Rihanna meets
a million people in a day, but everybody that meets
her only met one Rihanna. So they're going to have
these ridiculously impactful moments that they've created in this like
parasocial relationship. What happens to all of us, And it's
not really fair, I think, to listen to a lot
of those things. Now, if you hear the same thing
over and over and over again, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
That they say I'm messy over and over and over,
but then again I have been.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Do you think you're messy sometimes? Do you think you're
so messy or.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
You have been sometimes I have to be you know,
like I did that viral clip where I said where
I got a cease and desist, and I go, oh, this,
this this athlete sends me this season desist after he
invited me to spend the night at his ranch because
I didn't want to sleep with you or I wasn't
attracted to you, and I'm gonna get a season.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I ain't get another one. I didn't say the name.
I didn't say the.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Name because everybody in the comment section did because back.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
In the day, you know, outa win and got me
a basketball and been dribbling balls and been like, see
these balls were in your jersey. But I didn't because
I am giving grace because I am an elected, honorable official,
so I do have to act honorable.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
But but but to close the lid.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
On the Rhianna thing, you know, I do forget. I mean,
I know who she is, but it's so human. The
interaction is so human and pure that you don't see
that when you see her, like you see the human being,
you see that she sees you. So when my friend
is over there going handheart, I'm like, if you don't
put that damn handheart down. And then when they try
(22:06):
to hug her for extended periods of time because you know,
she smells great, so they want her scent to be
all over them, so they're hugging.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
I'm like, yo, get your that's a salt. Get get your.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Hands off of her. But she plays into it. She
thinks it's funny.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
So when you talk about messy, I recently watched well,
I just watched it because you just posted it some
of your interview.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
With ray J.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
You can talk about messages lovely lovely. What are your
thoughts on how we are consuming messy culture right now?
Because as a society, there used to be a time
where it'd be like, ooh, let them breathe, they need help,
leave them alone, And now we're like, give me more.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Ray J.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I thought you were going to be dead like two
months ago. That's what you told us. There was blood
coming out of your eyes or something. There's weird stuff
happening and we're watching Britney Spears clacking her knives all
over the place and just weirdly enjoying it. Does that
make us horrible?
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Okay, let me say this, and it's going to be
a layered responsible. The first, let me say this as
a disclaimer, I want Chris Jenner to invite me back
to Hidden Hills to her house to eat the homemade
guacamole while she SIPs martinis like she did the time
(23:17):
I brought Cardi b I like Chris and would love
to restore my relationship with her, but I'm not gonna
be able to because she has a person over there
named Tracy Romulus, who is a horrible employee who's the
biggest cock blocker for the Kardashians.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And shit started because she's mad that she didn't get.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
The BBO to become a Kardashian and she's never gonna be,
not even an adopted daughter of a Kardashian, so them
put that out there.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I don't like Tracy Rames.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
I didn't think so, so let me say, because she's
been the person that has destroyed the relationship I had
with the Kardashians. I me and Rob Kardashian used to
be friends. He introduced me to his mom, who I
was like, I mean, I have emails and stuff where
I was like, yo, mom, you know, because I like
I love. I admired how a woman could take a
lemon and build a lemonade franchise because she's a boss.
(24:03):
You can't take that from it. The woman got bought
a whole brand new face. For those of you who
thinks that she's she could do whatever she wants Chris Jenner.
Now that being said, and here's where I think I'm
never going to be invited back to her house. Why
can't the Kardashians go out and buy all these butts,
change all these faces, build billion dollar brands and not
be labeled messy. But ray J's messy, you know, like
(24:24):
think about it. Ray J is messy. Kim Kardashian has
been messy, Chris Jenner has been messy, Bruce Jenner.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Their brand was built on mess.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Their empire is.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
But the message has been there are just victims by
ray J's antics. And now ray J is saying, we ah, wait,
we did a deal. We sat around the table, we
shot this first sex tape. It wasn't messy enough, so
she said, go slap my daughter up at a hotel
and come back and let me review it and see
if I can edit this thing into it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I can't even imagine my mom right, And.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
He did that allegedly, and then he has three tapes
allegedly where they sat on a plane and allegedly talked
about how they were going to distribute it, and then
they filed a fake lawsuit allegedly to get the distribution
to make sense allegedly, and then now he's being sued
for alleging what they allegedly did. I'm not messy, I'm
just a platform. I'm the one going back going. Who
(25:20):
in their right mind could say to their child go
over there and do something sluttier, you underperformed. Ray J
called Brandy and say you want to be down because
your best friend is ready to go over there and
sit up in her room and get this video done.
That's what they did, allegedly, and so I'm just airing
it now. And you know, yeah, he says his heart
is dying and failing and his blood is coming out
of his eye, and there's people say it's not true,
(25:42):
it's raggie. I don't know what's true what's not true,
But what is true is that that was a really
spicy conversation.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Did you see it?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I did crazy and I was fascinated by the whole thing,
especially not to go too deep into it, but there's
a difference between fame and power. Chris Jenner seems like
she has both of them right, massive amounts of power.
And one of the things that you did ask him
was she got it like to the point where she
could just hire someone to kill someone. Yeah, And he
said she definitely could. How do we know she hasn't.
I'm not saying she has.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
He said that, Yes, he said that. He said that.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
And that's why when when Chris's last text to me
was kind of a threat, I had to text her
back and say, you gonna find somebody that don't give
a fuck, and you just found that person. And I
had to put it all in writing because if she
ever tries to kill me, I would go straight to
my podcast and say, TikTok, do your thing. She's trying
to kill me, and I wouldn't be above it. And
then I would launch a campaign on surviving Chris Jenner,
(26:32):
you know, and it would be a short form series
on TikTok where I am like in hidden hills, like
jumping out of bushes doing I would create the most
viral content dodging this assassination attempt by Chris.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
But I want to go over and eat guacamole because
I do like guac, but like, are.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
You going to poison me? Chris? Am I going to.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Die after I eat that little avocado that she put
just for me? Like, I don't know, I just I'm
so confused that how we got here. But we are other.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Questions about all of this was You do get into
the weeds with people. You have interviews where you ask
the things that people want to know, and sometimes it
could get contentious. You guys post all kinds of stuff,
whether it's Cardi B screaming at stuff on digs, whatever's
going on, and she's your friend. You guys are tight. Yes,
so are there people I can only imagine aside from
the cease and desist letter? Are you ever nervous about
(27:21):
the way people are reacting to the things that you're posting.
You don't feel like you have to run around with security?
You just feel fine?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
No, No, I do have security, Like if you know, today,
I'm popping in and out of radio show, so I'm
not going to have security with me. But like if
I'm going to a club, I'm going to have security.
And my security instructions are very clear, like you kill
them if they try to kill me, you make sure
I get home and they will go with me somewhere
and they will follow me home. Or you know, if
(27:47):
I'm if I'm out doing things, giving out toys or
having a big event at a park as the vice mayor.
You know, I have my own We have the police,
but I have my own security, and they're everywhere. You know, people,
we live in a crazy time right now. Just right now,
they posted something crazy Democrat vice mayor trying to get
fifty eight million dollars. And then now I got people
like in my DMS like you nigger, I'm going to
(28:08):
gut you like because they believe what they've seen. So
I'm like working with meta to address all those things. Yeah,
I'm very mindful of those things. But you know, when
I see Carti and Stefan arguing at a coffee shop,
I just cent her the eyes like I see you,
you know, and she will respond or not respond. And
you know, at the end of the day, I want
my friends to be happy, all of them. I want
everybody to be happy.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
You know. I was talking with Lizzo the other day
and she called him.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
I was listening to her as a human being with
her vulnerabilities, and she knows that if I'm an interview.
I'm going to set her up to talk about those things,
but we have to talk about the things that fans
are wanting to see too, And I want to say
here as an exclusive. Rihanna told me she's coming on
the Jason Lee Show. She said that full interview. She
knows I'm going to ask her all the things, and
so I want to say it here because she said,
(28:52):
you can go and say it because I'm going to
do it. So this is a part of us, both us,
me and you, Gandhi holding Rihanna accountable to that interview
because she says she's going to give.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
It to you.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I can't wait. I can't wait either to ask all
the things.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I actually really appreciate that about you, because I think
that we're in this weird time with media where yes,
people have friends, and I'm sure at some point there
have been stories that you haven't released because of the
human cost or I know more or you know more. Yes, okay,
But also it seems like this level of authenticity that
everybody tries to say they have is actually really not
(29:25):
all that authentic anymore. Celebrities are now pretty much curated.
You can pay for bots, you can pay for the
clappers or clippers, whatever the hell those things are called. Yeah,
you can pay. I'm sure that there are ways to
pay for advertising on your site with him, ever, and
it's like the authentic rise to start on because somebody
was truly a star doesn't seem like it's really there anymore.
(29:45):
Now it's like the Hawktua girl making one statement and
then she has a bitcoin grab and it's what is happening.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
In hok to a girl? Let me tell you? Do
you know that they were going to take her to
the DNC why?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Somebody said, what do you think about Howktua for Comma?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I said, I said, let me tell you something.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Kamala wasn't but somebody in the mix was having a
conversation about introducing that viral. Please stop playing with me.
But here here's what I will say. Yeah, and it is.
It's frustrating because I when I moved my show over
to BT, I did it symbolically for a couple of reasons.
One that's where I tried to start, and I wasn't
ready too. They were launching the Lewis Cars, launching the
(30:25):
Creative Creative Creator Studio program to be able to give
black creators platforms. I thought, Oh, I'm gonna be the
flagship brand. That's great for me. It's great for me
to use my voice. I've always been a champion of
other color, creators of color to have an opportunity. So
like it was symbolically and it was strategically for me
to do that, but it was also a test to see, BT,
are you really about this life? Because now this is
(30:48):
not the Bible Belt, you know, Bobby Jones Gospel show.
This is like Blue Face Today, Ray j Tomorrow, my
sprinkle in, Michelle Obama because we love her, She's the
goat Rihanna. We're going I head over to Suki, you know,
because it's the uttermost to the guttormost, it's all of it.
And I think that BT taking that risk with me
(31:08):
speaks to the direction the brand's going because the landscape
is changing. To your point, I hate the curation of stars.
You're either a star, you're not. You either have something
to say or you don't. I don't want to talk
to people that are on a promo run because the
network wants me to. I want to talk to who
I want to talk to. When I want to talk
to him, and that's the flexible I've been able to
have with the Jason Lee Show, regardless of where it's been.
And it's really frustrating when celebrities are just afraid to.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Just be honest. You know.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Now, I will say the roaster Kevin Hart with that
guy that did the George Floyd joke, Tony Has, I
see the conversation of its comedy and we got to
go back to the Eddie Murphy raw days. But I
also know we do live in a world where social
media is whatever, and him dying was a major thing
for the culture. So like, I get both sides of
(31:54):
the conversation.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
That one's a hard one. The cancel culture in general
is a really tough one because I actually don't think
cancel culture is a real thing many people. The news
cycle is so fast, Yes, Hi fly from across the room.
The news cycles so fast. People just really get outraged
for a minute and then they move on from it.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Fifteen minutes or a day, they'll be gone.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And if we have once again the guy running the
office of a White House that we have, other people
should not be getting canceled. That being said, you know,
celebrities far more than I do the ins and outs
of them? Do you think there are some that should
be canceled that we just applaud and love all the time.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
The only celebrities and I can't think of one in
my mind that I can say this person needs to
be canceled. But what I would say is any celebrity
who looks like us, and if they're a woman of
color or a black man or gay of whatever, that
knows what they had to go through to get there,
forgets what we're going through to get there, and doesn't
reach back.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I don't respect that.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Like I respect one person that I don't know, but
I was able to give her flowers recent on a
carpet who I don't we're not friends by any measure,
is Violea Davis like she always uses her platform from
consistently to talk about the issues in advancement of people
of color and women. I think Joy Reid is another
person who I know text with the other day who
I'm like yo, like, I have a lot of respect
(33:11):
for her, but I don't really know her like that.
I think there's people out there that are that know it,
you know, to be able to see Don Lemon now
in his rise as an independent creator, knowing where he
came from and the challenges he went over there and
now what he's learning as an independent newsperson. So I
love seeing that, but I hate There's nothing worse than
when you know who I am, but you'll deny me
access to something because of Hollywood or lock. But Jeff Bezos,
(33:34):
who owns Washington Post in Washington, in Washington, can walk
right through the door. So it's like in their mind
they don't understand the microaggressions or the little racism or
the lack of you know, like you know, they don't
understan they don't see it because it's just well, they
say he's messy. It isn't Elon Musk giving two hundred
and fifty million dollars to the president to get him
(33:55):
in only to go and take federal contracts eight million
dollars a day.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Isn't that messy? But that's not mess that's just Elon.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
We have to stop this disspirit capitalism, and we have
to stop this dispirit application.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Of the rules, like the rules.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Apply to women, white women differently the women of color, men,
white men differently than black men, black men differently than black,
gay men, like, we have to stop all that.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
What is the rule, what is the standard? Where's the bar?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
The bar in government has been so low now that
a two year old can step over it, right, but
the bar still for us black politicians are black elected officials,
a Jasmine Crockett or a Kamala Harris is much higher.
So I think we need to have those conversations.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Donnie Brown when she was brought into the Supreme Court,
the amount of people saying she wasn't qualified when she
is the most qualified person there, and then the assholes
that you bring behind her, it's it's mind blowing because,
as you know, to get to a certain place, and
people love to throw around the terms DEI higher. I
get that a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
They call me the di vice mayor.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Did you know that you only because you told me that?
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yes, but the vice mayor.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
That's ridiculous because it's so much harder as a person
of color to traverse these pathways. Nobody sees that part
of it. Nobody sees the struggle. They see a person
of color in a place that they don't think you belong,
and all of a sudden you've gotten a leg up,
when in fact, you've worked twice as hard for half
as much and it's really a struggle, which you had
Candice Owens on your show. She man, let me tell you,
(35:22):
she's one of those people that you were talking about
where I'm like, you know what we've gone through, and
you suit your high school because of discrimination based on race,
and now you have the big old balls to come
out here and take the other side on everything. Is
that authentic or is that a character that she plays
to get the attention, because no celebrity is really authentical.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
She really believes it though, And the crazy part was
she was she was sitting there rubbing her stomach. I'm like,
what if your kid comes out gay? She's like, my
kid's not gonna be gay. I'm like, well, what if
your kid is gay or trance? My kid would never
because that's a mental health issue. Like really, so she's
not even aware. Maybe she is that you're saying to
(36:02):
a gay person that he has a mental health issue, right,
he's gay, but.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Like and also it was a choice and mental health and.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
She couldn't even see that your kid could be gay
and she couldn't say that she would still love her kid,
you know. So to me that was more telling of
the type of person she is, because most people say,
I would love my kid no matter what. Right my
kid comes out with no hands, I'm still gonna teach
him how to wave. You know, No, that's not cantis own.
She could not see it. But you know, there were
(36:29):
people that said, why are you talking to Canizonan? Why
are you giving her platform? She has a platform, she's Cantazonan.
Why not have the conversation because there's going to be
people that see any conversation.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I interview Robert F. Kenny Jr. Do I agree with
any in all of what he said?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
No?
Speaker 4 (36:42):
But I saw some things there and we're like, okay,
I get that, or I get that. One of the
questions was if you lose, are you going to work
with Trump? He didn't answer, Well, obviously we know the
answer now. But people would criticize me, why are you
Why are you interviewing Krashan? Why are you interviewing Canason?
I interview people. That's what I do. I have conversations.
You get to decide which of those you like and
don't like in the comments.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I would love to have candas Os on this show.
I told oh, I absolutely would. I just got a
lot of questions. Here's the thing, like you were saying
about RFK Junior, a broken clock is right twice a day.
So yeah, you can find little pieces of things that
are true and what's being said, but the clock is
still broken. So with Candace, now this this turn ever
since Charlie Kirk died, and now she is, you know,
(37:23):
railing against MAGA and she's on the other side, and
people say, oh my god, I can't. I can't believe.
I find myself agreeing with candas owns. You don't she
agrees with you. You've been saying these things. She finally
saw the light in some capacity whatever's going on over
there and now is going in some other direction. But
she's still a broken clock, and I don't want people
to forget that. Yes, that's wild.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Yeah, I see what she's doing.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
And when she came on my show, I saw you
just you want my audience, like you want to shift
into more people following whatever it is that you're putting out.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And I see a lot of.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
People, like, you know, a lot of black folks saying
I agree with her here, I agree with her there
because you're you know, all black back women or all
women of color can identify with being treated invisible or
so everybody can relate to that. So she's finding ways
of relating to people to bring them back to her
message of discrimination and hate, ignorance at times, or whatever.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
And you know she can.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
She's articulate, so she'll make you think she's not a fool.
But if you listen to her long enough, you'll be like,
you a damn fool.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Right, you're very well spoken idiot that part. And I'm
here for all of these things I want to hear about.
I want to have the deep conversations with people that
are more than just what we get to do on
the show, which is ten to fifteen minutes and someone's
in and out. You don't really get to sit and
get to know them. I think there's just so much.
And I like that you say from the uttermost to
the gut ormost, because in a dream world that's how
(38:42):
things would go.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Is there any celebrity that you basically created because you've
platformed a lot of these people, like blue Face, I
wouldn't known anything about them if it wasn't for you.
Is there anyone that you regret having platformed and now
they have the attention of the world.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
No, No, I don't regret any of my interviews, all
of them.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
I mean I will say one person that I look
back and I'm like, why did I have her on?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
You may not even know who this person? Do you
know who Woa Vicki is? Oh?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
My god? Yeah, I'm sad that I know.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Okay, I had Woe Vicki on years ago.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
She just like found Jesus not too long they all have.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
And I had to really stop the interview because and
say to her like, when you say the N word, do.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
You understand how ridiculous you are?
Speaker 4 (39:23):
And her person was like, if you watch it, she's
like inching her seat closer, closer to I get. She's like,
now in between me and WHOA Vicki at the table
like this as I'm talking on, I go, first of all,
you're not invited in the interview, so you need to
back up, and I'm asking you, like, do you understand ridiculous?
In that moment, I didn't realize, but now looking back
like that was an unnecessary interview, Like why did I
(39:46):
just did it? Because she was viral and it was
like whatever, But now I know my platform, I'm like,
I want to talk to the people I want to
talk to when I want to talk to them, and
so I don't. I don't know that I regret it,
but it was like, why did I do that?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
And if people don't know who wo VICKI is, I
don't even know how to explain her. She is a creature,
she is white, she she I don't even know what
I would call her, like an Internet sensation. I would not.
She's just this girl who acts hood and found Jesus
and I don't know what she's up to. I don't
how would you explain.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Her the way you just did?
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Okay, there you go. Yeah, she's one of those people
that I see and I'm like, God, why how did
you get into my algorithm? I must have made some
mistakes here. Yeah, that's not great. Okay, that's a good
place to pause because there is so much more on
the way. Just to tease, I asked him, essentially, who
(40:42):
is the worst celebrity? And he answered, and he gave
us why, and then he called me crazy for something
that I said. That's all coming in the next episode.
But Jason Lee Hollywood Unlocked, you should go check it out.
There's a lot of interesting stuff over there. Again, you're
probably gonna be inundated with things that you never ever
want to see in your life. But you're gonna see
(41:02):
a lot of really fascinating stuff too. There's a lot
of truth in these allegations. Notice how many times he
will say allegedly, I love it. I need to learn
that anything I've said was alleged. A disclaimer for the
next time, alleged everything is alleged. Okay, Diamond, and people
want to find you online? How can they do that
(41:25):
at Diamond? Since here on Instagram and I am at
Baby Hot Sauce Instagram, tw tweeds, threads, Twitter, wherever come
find us. Please follow the page on Instagram, Sauce on
the side. You know what's wild is we do this
podcast once a week and we put it out and
we talk about it all the time, and the Instagram
page is pretty slow to grow. My art page, which
(41:48):
I love that people follow. Please go follow Zoga Underscore
Made zo Ga Underscore Made. That's our art page. We
don't really talk about it all that much or push
it all that much. It's got like night, teen thousand
followers are our page is kicking my podcast pages as huh.
I wonder why maybe we need to do.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
We should do a mashup a clip of the most
fascinating thing that we talked about in a specific episode. Okay,
with an overlap what is it? Time lapse of you
painting company?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Oh? I have so many time lapses.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Somebody told us we needed to start a TikTok channel
of just the time laps because people love it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I was like, okay, maybe we will. You should a
lot of big ideas over here, all right, So follow
the page like follow subscribe if you can, because when
you subscribe, the podcast just shows up for you. Bam,
It's right there. You don't have to go search it out,
and if for some reason something goes down, it will
still be there for you and leave us a review
or talk back. You just hit the little microphone button
(42:46):
if you're listening on the iHeartRadio app, and you can
tell us your thoughts and feelings on things, and we'll
be back with the second half of Jason Lee next week. Okay,
say bye bye.
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