July 15, 2026 • 40 mins
Kevin Gorman of the Trib and former Pirate Freddy Sanchez join to talk Pirates.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Buct Us by the Steelers Pro Shop.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Get it direct from the team at the Steelers Pro
Shop at shop dot Steelers dot com. And yeah, when
I mentioned the Terrible towel, that's exactly where you can
get the Terrible towel with the Paris theme on it
for the game against the New Orleans Saints in Week seven.
All Right, so let's get to this conversation a little
bit about what we're looking for from the Steelers in
(00:35):
terms of training camp conversation, training camp dialogue, and all
eyes being on the backup quarterbacks because everybody wants to
know what Will Howard really is after hearing about him
trumped up, talked up for an entire year and then
never seeing him. How far behind the curve learning is
Drew Aller really and will either of them be good
(00:58):
enough to surpass meson Rudolph's going to be Howard or
bust in that regard. As far as I'm concerned, I
think basically you're looking at Drew Aller being a rookie
red shirt. But I know there's a frequent complaint out there,
and it's a valid one from NFL fans about national
sports talk radio and debate shows on television that they're
(01:18):
too reductive. Every conversation is reduced down to squabbles and
brushfires about coaches and quarterbacks, coaches and quarterbacks, coach quarterback rankings,
coach firings, QB benchings, QB controversies, or inst and repeat
over and over again. So when it comes to charting
a path for the Steelers this upcoming season, allow me
(01:42):
to decree with a full throat right now that this
year is all about the coaching quarterback, not the coach
and the three backup quarterbacks, the coach and the starting quarterback.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's all about Rogers, It's all about MacArthur. It's not just.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
The low hanging fruit of you know, a last rodeo
season for Rogers, or the prodigal play caller in McCarthy
coming back to Pittsburgh to take over his native team
replacing Tomlin.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Those are great storylines.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And as Rogers said, there's definitely a full circle aspect
to it. But far more important than that is how
those guys recreate the magic that they had as a
coach QB tandem in Green Bay from what was it
like roughly twenty seven to twenty fourteen when they were
really hummon when they were really cooking with gas or
(02:43):
maybe it's even better said that it's about avoiding how
things went south with those two, as we started to
see in McCarthy's last two seasons before he got run
out of town, and it ended after thirteen years with Rogers.
Very little else about the twenty twenty six Steelers feels
(03:05):
like a variable to me. This franchise had every excuse
in the world to blow up the roster after Mike
Tomlin resigned, a new coach coming in for the first
time since two thousand and seven. The team hasn't won
a playoff game since the twenty sixteen postseason. The rosters
(03:27):
stars on defense are aging, but the front office did
the exact opposite.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
They brought back Rogers, Art Rudy, Omar Kahn, Andy Widel.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
They decided to keep the team together as much as
they could. After yet another first round playoff bounce at
home to the Houston Texans, I know that Michael Pittman
Junior and Jeremy Bernard they should provide a shot in
the arm at wide receiver Rico Dowdell. H'll offset Kenneth
Gainwell's departure with a different style. Uning back Jameel Dean.
(04:01):
He'll be an upgrade at one cornerback spot. They're deeper
at safety. But when you think about it, you've got
five offensive linemen with existing playing time that are coming back.
You got the top two tight ends, the top nine
linebackers outside and inside, the top four defensive linemen Jalen Warren,
DK Metcalf, All those guys are coming back. And then
(04:25):
oh yeah, on top of that, like I said, the
two quarterbacks behind Rogers in Mason Rudolph with Howard and
then also Aller in the mix, there's your new guy
there backup quarterback. But can you blame anyone in the
entire Steelers fan base if they took one look at
that roster and said, yep, looks at I don't know
(04:48):
a nine to eight, ten and seven season. Again, to
me's that's how it looks. Of course, that's how it looks.
They brought so much of the roster back. What else?
What are the conclusion would you come to? And the
conclusion that could change your mind is that the Rogers
McCarthy nexus is the one big hitch, and one would
(05:11):
have to assume that at forty two, Like what Paul
said earlier, Rogers is gonna be another year slower, more
determined to get rid of the ball that much more quickly,
and more prone to injury. So if you just look
at Rogers on his own, you're gonna say he's gonna descend.
But what could counter that is McCarthy's presence that might
(05:34):
might prevent last year's ten and seven division title thanks
Tyler Loop, from turning into nine and eight or God
forbid eight and nine due to Rogers' natural decline. McCarthy's
presence could be the one thing that offsets that. In
other words, whatever erosion there might be from the version
(05:55):
of Rogers that we saw in twenty twenty five to
Rogers twenty six actually being better, like outweighing what's going
to happen to him physically. It could be the coach
coming on board who actually has an offensively oriented view
of football, a coach who approaches that side of the
ball with the primary objective of being to score points
(06:17):
as opposed to merely avoid turnovers. A coach that occasionally
tries to win thirty to twenty instead of aiming for
every game to be twenty to sixteen with a defense
that can't ever keep it close to sixteen in the playoffs,
sort of a fly in the ointment of that approach.
Four one two, three three three eight ninety nine thirty
(06:37):
nine or eight three three four one two wxdx its
final Argentina one two to one. This is also a
coach that knows this quarterbacking question, knows his skills as
much as any coach in the NFL, and may be
able to craft an offense for him that still benefits
(06:58):
what skills he has, but he also can take into
account the protections that he requires. There's a quote from
McCarthy that I remember, and I dug it back up
again from one of his press conferences in May. I
think it was the Mini Camp opener where he said
about Rogers, the football conversations are always fun, they always
(07:20):
have been.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
There's history there.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think it's important for us as an offensive coaching
staff to make sure that we lean towards that experience,
but also tie it to what's established here last year.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Well, what was established here last year with Rogers.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Is that he's still good enough to lead this offense
to beat most of the inferior opponents that they'll see
most of the time, most of the games against the
lesser teams, the Steelers will win most of the time,
unless they're in Cleveland. It was also established that in
last year's offense against better teams, the Steelers lost most
(07:59):
of the time, and most of the time they look
bad doing it, including that postseason lost to Houston. So
she had a one in six record with a minus
seventy eight point differential against playoff teams. And that's pretty
much all you need to know about where the Steelers
were as a club, good enough to beat the lesser
(08:20):
teams most of the time, rarely good enough to beat
the better teams. How McCarthy's presence influences the offensive meeting room,
and how effectively his working relationship with Rogers reignites that
will tell the entire tale of how twenty twenty six
(08:40):
will go. You remember, Rogers called it a pinch me
moment when he came back and saw McCarthy here and
all the assistants that he remembered from Green Bay and whatnot. Well,
I hope that after he's pinched, he wakes up in
the second round of the AFC playoffs, because the Steelers
haven't been there for the last nine seasons. I've been
hibernating by then, and no one will have more of
(09:04):
an impact on that potential result in Pittsburgh than that
combination of him and McCarthy. And if you search for
a different truth, I think you're intentionally ignoring the obvious.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I hate to be that reductive about it. I hate
to be that predictable about it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
But for the Steelers this year, they've painted themselves in
this position where it's coach and quarterback. So if you're
listening to National Sports Talk, if you're seeing Steven A.
Smith sounding off on Mondays after Steeler games, if you're
listening to Colin Coward rant about the coach and the
quarterback all the time, the Steelers can't escape being in
(09:44):
that pool because that's who they are this year. Everything
else about them is still back in the eight to
ten win range.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
What tilts the Steelers to.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
A team that might be finally better than a ten
win team and actually threaten the playoffs is if McCarthy
gets that one more season out of Rogers. What pushes
them down below five hundred for the first time since
two thousand and three is if McCarthy.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Can't find that can't.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Get deep into that well and rediscover it, and Rogers
is just another year older and he's finally over the cliff.
And it feels like oversimplified analysis, but it's never been
more true. And the league is going that direction coaching, quarterback, quarterback,
and coach, and the Steelers are there right now because
everything else is what it has been for the past
(10:33):
nine seasons. Good enough to be in the race, not
good enough to elevate, because as we saw with Roethlisberger
getting over, he was one that elevated into more than
what they had, and when he wasn't that player anymore,
that's how you got nine wins, scratching into the playoffs
and getting blown out by Kansas City in his last
(10:54):
game four one, two, three three three ninety nine thirty nine. Now,
speaking Ofthlisberger, we'll come back. We'll talk about his tete
a tete with Tory Smith, the Baltimore Ravens wide receiver,
and why that was so interesting to really view from
thirty thousand feet, About how these two teams are perceived
(11:16):
by some of their alumni, and how these two rivals
might actually play out in the AFC North. We'll talk
about that next again. Argentina just won two to one
over England. Wild game of the second half one of
five to nine the X just a couple of minutes
last before we get to Kevin Gorman from TribLive to
talk about the Pirates. Here on one O five to
nine the X Spain and Argentina in the World Cup Final.
(11:40):
Because Argentina just won two to one. That was a
wild second half. Tons of chances for Argentina. They just
kept kicking down the door, kicking down the door, and
eventually it collapsed. You might have heard about this. I
think I might have brought it up at one point
when I filled in for Mark, but I ended up
writing about it at trib Live because I found it interesting.
(12:01):
Speaking of the Steelers, Ben Roethlisberger in his podcast did
a few weeks ago of the Ravens. He said the
Steelers going to go twelve and five and beat the
Ravens twice, and he said, I think they're falling apart.
I don't think that the same team. They feel different.
Their window is closed. And Tory Smith, the former receiver,
does some TV down in Baltimore, and his response was,
(12:21):
who cares what Roethlisberger thinks. He's never going to say
anything positive about the Ravens. As long as you have
Lamar Jackson, your window is there. It's funny because he's
the same guy that people were saying that about in Pittsburgh,
but he was in his thirties and Lamar is still
in his twenties and is very much the best player
in the league. Well, not based on what his fellow
players think. That's one big league wide talking point is
(12:44):
why he was so lowly rated in the NFL's top
one hundred list.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
He dropped to like the mid thirties or something like that.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
But regardless, Smith went on to say this, and this
is the point that I wanted to get to. They
have a false sense of reality in Pittsburgh that it's
going to change because Mike Tomlin was the problem. They're
going to find out real quick that the roster is
still trash. And this is where the hyperbole gets in,
(13:16):
all right, Ben saying that they're gonna go twelve and five,
to me is hyperbole. I don't They might go ten
and seven again, but be a better version of ten
and seven, maybe eleven wins, and maybe if like I
said before, McCarthy and Rogers are all that together, they
finally get a playoff win in almost a decade, maybe,
(13:37):
so he's made a little hyperbolic, especially when he presumes
a sweep against Baltimore and they're a twelve win team.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
But Smith is.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Doing the same thing when he says the Steelers' roster
is trash.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
It's not trash.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's not as good as we think it is, as
Zeis and I were talking about, but it's not trash.
And the point that he brings up about Tomlin is
in too, because we are seeing that. We're even seeing
that from long time local Tomlin loyalists, You're even seeing
that from people within the Steelers media portion of the
(14:13):
media that are talking about how much better things are
going to be offensively, but they're doing it without directly
saying that Tomlin was what was holding it back. But
all the stats and all the narratives that were deemed
invalid that were criticisms of Tomlin by those who were
guardians at the gate for the Steelers, all of a sudden,
(14:34):
are now being allowed to be talked about, you know,
Like a popular one that I was laughed at when
it was dismissed was how the Steelers performed last year
against teams that were not in the playoffs, but they
(14:57):
ended up beating anyway, like the Cults the Ravens twice,
like teams that might have gotten into the playoffs if
the Steelers hadn't beaten them. And you heard those that
were loyalists to Tomlins saying, oh, you know, don't look
at that record about how the Steelers weren't good against
playoff teams, because you know there were like three or
(15:19):
four other wins there that against the Ravens, against the Colts,
that those would have been playoff teams if the Steelers
hadn't beaten them. And that was the pretzel logic that
was used to advance it. Hey, Tomlin's doing a better
job than you think. And now I keep hearing that
referenced as well. Don't you think McCarthy and his offense
would have done better against some of those teams to
improve that win six record against.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Teams that were in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So all of a sudden, like those what if stats,
those imaginary stats those, yeah, but Tomlin defending stats, We
don't need to worry about those anymore because McCarthy's gonna
fix it. McCarthy's he's gonna bring things a step forward.
So even some of them loyalists, and some of those who,
like I said before, are guardians at the gate when
(16:04):
it comes to media. Narratives in Pittsburgh are allowing themselves
to admit out loud that things could be better with McCarthy.
And it wasn't exactly a warm reception to McCarthy initially
taking over. I've not been on board with it. I'm
still not on board with it. I think other people
who didn't like the McCarthy hired first are further along
(16:25):
than I am. I still want to see results first.
I still think it's going to be more of the
same largely, but man, until he loses a regular season game,
the whole Pittsburgh guy coming back to Pittsburgh, and just
the thought of something new and different. That isn't Tomlin
being nine and eight or ten and seven. If McCarthy's
(16:45):
nine in eight and ten and seven, at least it's
a different version of it. That's one folks over. That's
one folks over, and people are more willing to have
an open mind than I thought would be the case
by this point the season when McCarthy was first hired.
We'll get back to Pie next Kevin Gorman one to
five nine the X five o'clock hour the Mark Madden Show.
All Star Game last night. National League loses by a
(17:07):
final score of four to nothing. They only get themselves
three hits. Kevin Gorman from trib Live covers the Pirates
for us. He joins me right now in the Mark
Badden Show here on the x G keV. I guess
it would have been nice if the team that had
the best offense in baseball and a few guys there, huh.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, that might have helped. You know, they were the
only team. No, they had two representatives at the game,
but they didn't have anybody play in the game. The
only team in all of baseball that did not have
one player appear in the game. And interesting for a
team that is above five hundred for the first time
in a decade not to have anyone make an appearance
in the All Star Game, in a game where they have,
(17:47):
you know, one of baseball's best offenses, and none of
baseball's position players show up in the game. So I
wouldn't call it a Travis de but I feel like
that was a real slight toward at least two players
who were wor and that's Brandon Lowe and Brian Reynolds.
I felt like they were both worthy and when I
was watching the introductions, I kept thinking to myself, well,
(18:08):
you know, those guys are better than this guy and
this guy and this guy. You know that that that's
that's part of it. But you know, there's also something
to be said for, you know, the All Star Game,
whether it's representing the game superstars, or whether it's representing
the guys who have had the best first half. And
I think that's where the pirate with the Pirates are
(18:29):
up against.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well that was ascraft versus schemes, yes, exactly, but it's
also you know, what have you done for me lately
versus what have you done over the course of your career.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
You know, Brandon Lowe obviously, you know as a two
time All Star in the American League, you know second
base is a loaded position in the National League. But
still for a guy who was leading all second basemen,
I believe in home runs, RBIs and slugging and I'm
not sure about ops, but definitely slugging. You know that
(19:01):
that was a real oversight, you know, I think you know,
you look, you can look at his batting average, and
you can look at the prolonged slumps with one of
which he was in at the end of the break,
right before the break. But Brandon Law was a real
catalyst for this offense being what it is, It's one
of those things I think you want to see all
the stars play, you know, I kind of like, you know,
(19:22):
cool to see Mason Miller come in, Cool to see
a world as Chapman come in. You know, two guys
with Pittsburgh ties. Even though you know, Skeins and Ashcraft
didn't pitch, we did get to see, you know, something
that represented Pittsburgh there, you know, one a little bit
more so than the other. One played for the Pirates,
one grew up in Pittsburgh. So I think it's interesting
that there's some Mason Miller rumors, you know, with the
(19:43):
Pirates and boy, you want to talk about bullstering your bullpen.
Either one of those guys would be a great ad.
But you know, Mason Miller has years of club control,
so I don't know what you'd have to give to
get him, but certainly imagine, you know, bring back another
Pittsburgh kid as the closer, and this one who's you know,
(20:04):
flirting with one hundred and five miles per hour on
his fastball. That could really be a devastating addition.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Would O'Neal Cruz have to be part of that deal?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Oh, I don't think so. I think you're trading him
for prospect. You know, I don't think you're giving up
a major piece of your team. And I don't think
the Pirates should. I don't think they should. Look at
the small glimpse that Jake Manghum has given them, and
it's not a you know, it's a very good glimpse.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
It's one of the topics I wanted to talk about,
is what the Pirates have done since June eleventh. You know,
Cruise went on the IL on June tenth, and since
June eleventh, two guys have stepped in and essentially replaced
Cruise in a way that no one could have ever imagined.
You know, we're talking Mangum. Here's his slash line three
(20:51):
forty three, three ninety three, four fifty four. So a
guy with very little pop has an eight forty seven
ops and seven doubles, a t bul of homer and
ten RBI and seven stolen bases on top of that.
Although he's been constantly five times but Mangum has you know,
I wouldn't say he's played great in center field, but
he but he's been representative. I mean he has not
(21:13):
you know, he's been at least as good as Cruise was.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
You know, cru Cruise makes plays. We don't give him
credit for it. He makes a lot of mistakes that
we definitely uh you know, magnify and they're magnified by
the way he makes them. But as Merlin Valdez since
June eleventh, which the day after Cruise went on the IL,
in twenty three games three forty six, four oh two,
(21:38):
seven fifty six with a one point one five nine ops,
six doubles of triple eight homers twenty two RBIs that
that's just in those twenty three games. I mean a
lot of people cite his twenty eight games where he
has ten homers in twenty seven RBIs and you know
in his first twenty eight games. But just in that snapshot,
(21:59):
since Cruise went on the a I L he has
replaced the power and that's, uh, that's pretty amazing to
all of a sudden have a rookie come in and
not only play you know well and right field, but
but become a middle of the order batan, a guy
who they can put in the cleanup spot between Reynolds
and O'Hearn that that's just been an amazing addition for
(22:19):
the Pirates and one that could help them make some
interesting moves if they did want to trade a major leaguer,
if they did want to include a major leaguer to
go get somebody, you know, you could do something with Cruise. Horwitz. Yeah, well,
I can't see them trade. I mean O'Neil Cruise is
a very unique player, and uh and what he brings
(22:39):
as a dynamic that you cannot replace. I mean, you
could say in the short term, these guys are filling
in admirably, but you know, I mean O'Neill Cruise is
a blend of power, speed, the arm strength. I mean,
you don't find that in baseball. And it's just that
the mistakes are so glaring that sometimes we forget about,
(23:01):
you know, the things that he does that are truly special.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So what happens then when he comes back, is it
against righty's Valdez sits and against lefties, well, gosh, I
would assume then that Manga would definitely sit and would
be a bench player in both situations, but then you
still got to make a call between o'hearne and Horowitz, right.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, And I think, you know, we may see Horowitz
before we see Cruse, but that just depends. But you know,
with Horwartz's injury, it's a matter of how quickly his
leg his hamstring can heal. With Cruise, it's not just
a matter of healing, but also getting his grip back,
getting his swings, you know, swing timing back. So there's
some things I'm sure Horwitz at some point can start
(23:46):
swinging the bat before Cruz can really kind of get
into everything. I would imagine Jake Mangum is not the
everyday centerfield or when Cruz comes back, but I think
it could be a rotation where you see Cruse, you know,
similar not maybe identical to what Connor Griffin did when
he first came back, you know, a day on a
day off, maybe a day as a DH. I could
(24:08):
see them trying to get CRUs worked in slowly. But
I do think that the d H spot, which the
initial play before they signed Marcelosuna, was to rotate the
players through there to keep some of the veterans off
the field. But in the lineup, and I could see
them doing that where they rotate Cruise, O'Hearn, Horwitz, Reynolds,
(24:32):
you know, even law that they could they could use
their depth to their advantage and keep some guys fresh.
I think that's why the addition of Jacob Gonzalez was important,
is that they actually have a guy who can be
a backup shortstop, but he can also play other positions.
So if you if you're like his bet, you can
get him in the lineup, whether it's at first base
(24:52):
or third base, or shortstop or second base. And and
so that was that was a crucial addition. I don't
expect him to come in and replace jarede Riolo as
the starting short stuff while Connor Griffin's out, but I
do think that you can have that ability to slide
Triollo to third, Gonzales at short or have you know,
Triolo at shortened Gonzalez at first, which is something I
(25:14):
think is more probably in the plans, but you know,
it gives it. You know, if you want to defensively,
you can probably put you know, you can you probably
spell Nick Gonzals a little bit. You can probably spell
Brandon Lau a little bit. You can spell ohearn a
little bit if you want to and and give those
guys a day where they're the d H and I think,
(25:34):
you know, that's that's going to come at the expense
of Marcelo Zuna, the twelve million dollar mistake, and the
Pirates are going to have to figure out what to
do with him. I just think there's this reluctance, given
how much they're paying him to do anything prior to
the trade deadline. You know, if they can unload his contract,
they will, and you know, maybe that includes, you know,
dangling extra prospect in the deal, or or sending him
(25:57):
to somebody where you're taking on you of control and
exchange for an expiring contract. That's that's probably the only
way they do that. But you know, DSA is probably
the most likely avenue for the pirates, But I don't
think they want to give up on it a Zoon,
especially when in the situations that they're using him, he's
starting to become productive. I think there's a hope that hey,
(26:19):
if this guy, if we can get into August and
this guy can kind of find his groove, you know,
they've got their fingers crossed that they can still make
something out of this because you know, otherwise it's just
been pretty much a disaster in terms of what he's
brought to the to the plate, not to the club,
but to the plate.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Finally, Kevin foundal moments with Kevin Gorman a trip Live,
Paul skeens, what is the more true statement here that
he knows his dip in velocity is real and he's
just downplaying it, or he really doesn't think it's a
problem and he's just going to keep going the way
(26:55):
things are.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I think it's somewhere in the middle. I think there's
some concerns about ourm angle and release that you know
that it's slightly different. You know. I talked to somebody
in the game about that and just said, you know,
his release is just a little bit different than it
used to be, and sometimes that has something to do
with a velocity, and that's a change you have to
(27:17):
kind of make in the off season. It's hard to
make those changes to kind of get back to your
original release in the middle of a season. You know,
some guys are capable of it. I would imagine most
guys that's an off season identifying it. And I think
that's why the Pirates said, hey, there's things we can
identify and give to Paul. It was really more imagined
a matter of can Paul make those changes, you know,
(27:40):
in the course of a season. But I also think
that there's very much a a six foot six, two
hundred and sixty pound guy. As much as Paul Skins
is in tip top shape, I think fatigue becomes a factor,
especially in the heat. And I think he's worried about recovery.
I think that's a concern of his. He made it
(28:01):
very clear to me when I talked to him about
the dipping velocity that he felt that ninety seven played
just as well as ninety eight. He can get PEPs wrong.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, Well, the problem is there's no evidence to suggest
that he's right on that, because his fastball is being
hit for more, or as he's given up more home
runs in his fastball this year at this point that
he has either the last two years. In fact, he's
going to five homers in his fastball, the same as
was the case for the total of his first two seasons.
(28:28):
And Kevin the change up is getting hit, it's getting
slugged for a lot more, probably because there's less differential
between the fastball speed and the change up.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Speed well, And I think you make a good point
here to Tim and and the point I was going
to say is it's one thing when you say, hey,
you know, ninety seven to one versus ninety eight two,
isn't that much of a difference. We've seen late in
games Paul Skeens's fastball has been down to the ninety
four ninety five four, right, yes, yeah, ninety four is
a huge difference between ninety eight and when you're seeing
(28:58):
the velocity during the course of a game, that's showing
signs of fatigue as well. So you know that that's
been The interesting thing is that you know, if Paul
Skins has the green light to throw a hundred pitches
and I'm not counting this last game where they had
a forty five minute inning and Paul Skins was down
for a while. I was even surprised he came back
(29:20):
out given what happened. You know, with that ten run inning,
you know that's that's a killer for a starting pitcher.
You know, it's great for your team, but for a
starting pitcher, you know, he's down way too long between it,
you know, between ups. But I do think you know
that that makes him much more hittable. But the real
(29:40):
concern to him is that and this illustrates your point
a little bit, maybe even better that My concern is
more that he dipped from ninety eight and we see
him at ninety four in the fifth inning, But when
he's throwing ninety eight, he's been very hitable in the
first two innings of the game. That's when some of
these home runs are coming. So I think it's one
of the those things where when you don't have the
(30:02):
splinker and your splinker was ninety four and the fastball
was ninety nine or you know, one hundred, you know,
people would people were trying to pick their poison. Okay,
which one are we going to go after? We're going
to go after the high Vila. There's some guys that
are better hitting Wielow, and there's some guys that were like, well,
the splinker is at least, you know, that's that's a
(30:24):
pitch I can see even if I can't hit it.
But the splinker has not been, you know, a dynamic
pitch for him anymore. And so I think that's part
of what made Paul Skiing special is that you know
that he's he's trying to round out the repertoire. But
at the same time, he doesn't have the one hundred
mile an hour fastball and a time when people are throwing,
(30:45):
you know, in the one o two, one oh three
range like a Jacob Mezerowski, But he also doesn't have
that secondary pitch. You know that the changeup has become
one of his secondary pitches, and I don't think that
is nearly as impactful as the splinker was.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, and it's one thing to say that it was
averaging ninety eight nine in his rookie season and it's
ninety six nine now, it's only two miles an hour.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
How big of a difference is that, really, Well, it was.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Averaging ninety eight nine then because it was occasionally one
oh one and would bottom out at ninety seven. Now
it's always ninety seven. That's the difference. And then there's
a much like you said, seven mile an hour difference
on a splinker is something a lot different than a
ninety six mile an hour fastball to an eighty something
(31:33):
mile an hour change up, because you know, again I
go back to that it's the setup for the secondary
pitches is as much the issue as the fastball itself.
Because he is still getting good chase rate on the fastball,
and like the whiff rate on the fastball and the
putaway rate on the fastball, it's down, but it's not
down that significantly. I think it's the ray of other
pitches that he's fallen in love with that are all
(31:53):
set up on the fastball that the fastball is now
hurting so and he's not getting deeper into games. If
the goal of all this is to get deeper in the game,
it's not happening because he hasn't seen the seventh inning
since mid May.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
No.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
I think that's the biggest point, is that Paul Skins
is a guy that should be getting you into the
seventh or eighth inning, and you you don't expect him
to get you the eighth inning every game, but he's
capable of pitching complete games, and I'm not expecting that
of any of the starters, especially in the in the
the most brutal part of the season, you know, and
when you're you're mid July and early August, when it's
the hottest part of the year. But he's not gotten
(32:26):
deep into games. He's not been efficient. He gives up
a lot of hits and as we saw in his
laugh outing you know, it's not just that he's given up,
you know, a solo home runner too. Those are those
to me are forgivable. When you when you miss on
a pitch or or a guy you know makes a
good swing, you know, you tip your hat and say, okay,
(32:47):
as long as it's the solo shot. But when you
when you're giving up you know, multi run homers, and
when you're giving up back to back doubles and followed
by a single, and and you you know that the
teams are finding you hittable, that's more of a concern.
Yet here's the thing, Paul Skenes isn't the most concerning
pitcher on the staff for me. I think he's obviously
the one who's you know, the biggest deal for the Pirates,
(33:09):
and and that his record is what it is is
a problem that the Pirates, you know, should be I
think they should have a seven to fifty winning percent
when Paul skin is on the MoU, not a five hundred.
But Mitch Keller is an issue.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Oh he's lost.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I mean, like I'm not even ready to see he's
a he's a question or concern. I just think he's lost,
especially since this was the half season where he's supposed
to be good. Now we're in it, that's yeah, Now
we're in Keller territory and that's the problem.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Always been a first half guy and a bad second
half guy, and he's coming off a bad first half.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Like I'm more worried about Ashcraft and how they handle
him because of his innings count.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Well, like I said, they're going to have to bring
Maginsky back into the rotation at some point. And I
think Ashcraft, and I think Ashcraft understands because of his
injury history. You know, he's had Tommy John, He's he's
he's had I think another shoulder in injury to his
non throwing shoulder. I mean, this is a guy who
has been down on the IL. I think he understands
(34:06):
how his health is at a premium. But Mitch Keller's
your highest paid pitcher. He's your highest paid player in
terms of this year's contract and you know this year's salary,
and he's not performing and he's not performing at his level,
which isn't Paul Skein's level. You know, it's one thing
we say, Paul Skeen's isn't performing at a cy young
or a rookie of the year level that we've seen
(34:28):
the first two years of his career. Mitch Keller isn't
performing at the Mitch Keller level we've come to expect,
which is a mid rotation arm. You know, this is
a guy who's been one, you know, so I don't
I would be curious to see what the Pirates do
with their starting rotation coming out of the break, whether
they shuffle it at all, whether Paul Skeins makes his start.
You know, is Paul Skin's going to start Friday against
(34:49):
Cleveland or they're going to have him skip a start.
You know, I would imagine he wants to stay on
on on rotation, But I don't know what they do
if you know, if you move somebody be up or down,
and try to figure out a way to kind of
get Mitch Keller jump started, because that that's been a
problem for the Pirates that the guy, the two guys
who are supposed to be the innings eaters aren't going
(35:10):
deep into games. Uh And the two guys that were
supposed to be, you know, they're there, their most reliable
pitchers haven't been in the first half, and so a
lot of these problems in the bullpen have been you know,
compounded by the starters not going deep into games. I
hate to put all of it. I don't think they've
built a great bullpen, especially in long relief. Those bulk
(35:33):
relievers have have not that that that was that was
not a good plan whatever they had. But and I
think the plan all along was, you know, for Majinski
to be one of the bulk relievers. But the starting
pitching has has to be the If it's going to
be the foundation for this team, which the offense was
in the first half, if it's going to be part
(35:54):
of the foundation in the second half, They've got to
get better performance from from Skins and Color in particular,
and then I've got to figure out a way for
all of their starters to be more efficient to go
deeper in games the way that Ashcraft did on a
regular basis in the first half.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Kevin, thanks appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Thanks for having me Tim.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Kevin Gorman from Trib Live, our baseball writer, read him
daily at Trib Sports. When we come back. It's the
last word with former Pirate Freddy Sanchez. His recollection twentieth
Anniversary of the six All Star Game, which was here
at PNC Park. We'll hear from Freddy Freddy Freddy next
on one to five nine The X Last Word. Mark
(36:33):
Badden out in Columbus today and Mark will be back tomorrow.
He's seeing ac DC at the Horseshoe. Marko rejoined the
show at three o'clock tomorrow. Before we go today, I
played the Jason Bay interview that I had from Breakfast
with Benz at trib Live.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
You can hear it in.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Its entirety on the podcast page there. But we also
had Freddy Sanchez on the podcast to remember that two
thousand and six All Star Game from P and C Park.
You remember he was a writing guy that year. He
didn't even get on the ballot to start the year,
supposed to be Joe Randa starting at third base that
year for the Pirates, and eventually Sanchez took over. He
(37:13):
played some second played some short played, mainly third base though,
and was hitting three point fifty eight at the All
Star break and because of that, because the game was here,
he got eight hundred and fifty thousand writing votes, which
got the attention of the late great Phil Garner, who
was a former Pittsburgh Pirate World Series champion, the manager
of the Astros, who had gone to the World Series previously,
(37:35):
also a second basement, third basement during his time in
the Majors and with the Pirates. So Freddy Sanchez named
to the team, and I caught up with Freddy to
remember that night twenty years ago this week and give
me his thoughts on what do you remember about P
and C Park hosting the All Star Game and his
appearance in it in that special year which culminated in
(37:56):
a batting championship.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Oh gosh, I tell everybody this, Pittsburgh's deathly a top three.
I was fortunate to play in two of the top
three stadiums I think in Major League Baseball, with the
with the Pirates and the Giants, So those stadiums are freaking.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Second to none.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
And I got to go back there with the Savannah
Bananas when they went to PNC and just the view
and everything we had, we had one of the sweets.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
It was just it was amazing.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
So but that that week, I mean, I don't know
if you remember, but I think I was a write
in that year.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I wasn't even on the ballot.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I was gonna ask you about that, because you didn't
start on the ballot that year and sort of amplify
your point. If I remember correctly, you had something like
eight hundred and fifty thousand write in votes. You were
you were the fifth highest vote getter at third base,
even though you weren't on the ballot to begin with.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Yeah, I mean that that that's something that that's something
that was so special that that that showed, you know
that the Pittsburgh fans and and everybody appreciated what I
was had done that year. And I just remember being
so grateful that I was a you know, because I
wouldn't have made the All Star Game any other way
if I didn't get those ride ins. So I just
remember being so grateful to the city for them showing
(39:09):
the love that they had towards me to get me
into the All Star Game.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Or I wouldn't have got in.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
But that's that's what I remember leading up was my gosh,
I'm in the All Star Game. This is unbelievable, this
is crazy. But that night I'll never forget when you know,
I think it was who's standing next to me. I
might have been Ryan Howard or someone that when they
started giving me a standing ovation right before my name
(39:37):
wasn't even called yet and I'll never forget. One of
the guys looked at me and said, oh, man, I
have the chills right now because the place was going crazy,
chanting Freddie, Freddie, And that was something I will never forget.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
It was.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
It was insane. It was so loud, and the atmosphere
was so crazy. And the and support that I got
that night is something that I that I tell everybody about.
I'm like, you know, because they asked me, how was
your time in Pittsburgh? You know, I said, did that
was the So that was kind of like my second home.
It was some of the greatest times I've ever had there.
That's where I got my opportunity, That's where everything happened.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
And and you know.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
My biggest regret, one of my biggest regrets is we
didn't win in Pittsburgh for the fans.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
That's one of my biggest regrets in playing is we
didn't get a chance to.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Win and bring them a you know, a winner in Pittsburgh,
and that was something that I wanted to do. But
they came out every night and support it. But that
night wash I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Right, So my thanks to Freddy Sanchez, also to Kevin
Gorman from Trip Live. That is the last word. Thanks
to Jason Bay and Paul's Ice Too. Mark back tomorrow.
He'll be on at three after his return from Columbus.
This is one of five nine the X
Buct Us by the Steelers Pro Shop.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Get it direct from the team at the Steelers Pro
Shop at shop dot Steelers dot com. And yeah, when
I mentioned the Terrible towel, that's exactly where you can
get the Terrible towel with the Paris theme on it
for the game against the New Orleans Saints in Week seven.
All Right, so let's get to this conversation a little
bit about what we're looking for from the Steelers in
(00:35):
terms of training camp conversation, training camp dialogue, and all
eyes being on the backup quarterbacks because everybody wants to
know what Will Howard really is after hearing about him
trumped up, talked up for an entire year and then
never seeing him. How far behind the curve learning is
Drew Aller really and will either of them be good
(00:58):
enough to surpass meson Rudolph's going to be Howard or
bust in that regard. As far as I'm concerned, I
think basically you're looking at Drew Aller being a rookie
red shirt. But I know there's a frequent complaint out there,
and it's a valid one from NFL fans about national
sports talk radio and debate shows on television that they're
(01:18):
too reductive. Every conversation is reduced down to squabbles and
brushfires about coaches and quarterbacks, coaches and quarterbacks, coach quarterback rankings,
coach firings, QB benchings, QB controversies, or inst and repeat
over and over again. So when it comes to charting
a path for the Steelers this upcoming season, allow me
(01:42):
to decree with a full throat right now that this
year is all about the coaching quarterback, not the coach
and the three backup quarterbacks, the coach and the starting quarterback.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's all about Rogers, It's all about MacArthur. It's not just.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
The low hanging fruit of you know, a last rodeo
season for Rogers, or the prodigal play caller in McCarthy
coming back to Pittsburgh to take over his native team
replacing Tomlin.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Those are great storylines.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And as Rogers said, there's definitely a full circle aspect
to it. But far more important than that is how
those guys recreate the magic that they had as a
coach QB tandem in Green Bay from what was it
like roughly twenty seven to twenty fourteen when they were
really hummon when they were really cooking with gas or
(02:43):
maybe it's even better said that it's about avoiding how
things went south with those two, as we started to
see in McCarthy's last two seasons before he got run
out of town, and it ended after thirteen years with Rogers.
Very little else about the twenty twenty six Steelers feels
(03:05):
like a variable to me. This franchise had every excuse
in the world to blow up the roster after Mike
Tomlin resigned, a new coach coming in for the first
time since two thousand and seven. The team hasn't won
a playoff game since the twenty sixteen postseason. The rosters
(03:27):
stars on defense are aging, but the front office did
the exact opposite.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
They brought back Rogers, Art Rudy, Omar Kahn, Andy Widel.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
They decided to keep the team together as much as
they could. After yet another first round playoff bounce at
home to the Houston Texans, I know that Michael Pittman
Junior and Jeremy Bernard they should provide a shot in
the arm at wide receiver Rico Dowdell. H'll offset Kenneth
Gainwell's departure with a different style. Uning back Jameel Dean.
(04:01):
He'll be an upgrade at one cornerback spot. They're deeper
at safety. But when you think about it, you've got
five offensive linemen with existing playing time that are coming back.
You got the top two tight ends, the top nine
linebackers outside and inside, the top four defensive linemen Jalen Warren,
DK Metcalf, All those guys are coming back. And then
(04:25):
oh yeah, on top of that, like I said, the
two quarterbacks behind Rogers in Mason Rudolph with Howard and
then also Aller in the mix, there's your new guy
there backup quarterback. But can you blame anyone in the
entire Steelers fan base if they took one look at
that roster and said, yep, looks at I don't know
(04:48):
a nine to eight, ten and seven season. Again, to
me's that's how it looks. Of course, that's how it looks.
They brought so much of the roster back. What else?
What are the conclusion would you come to? And the
conclusion that could change your mind is that the Rogers
McCarthy nexus is the one big hitch, and one would
(05:11):
have to assume that at forty two, Like what Paul
said earlier, Rogers is gonna be another year slower, more
determined to get rid of the ball that much more quickly,
and more prone to injury. So if you just look
at Rogers on his own, you're gonna say he's gonna descend.
But what could counter that is McCarthy's presence that might
(05:34):
might prevent last year's ten and seven division title thanks
Tyler Loop, from turning into nine and eight or God
forbid eight and nine due to Rogers' natural decline. McCarthy's
presence could be the one thing that offsets that. In
other words, whatever erosion there might be from the version
(05:55):
of Rogers that we saw in twenty twenty five to
Rogers twenty six actually being better, like outweighing what's going
to happen to him physically. It could be the coach
coming on board who actually has an offensively oriented view
of football, a coach who approaches that side of the
ball with the primary objective of being to score points
(06:17):
as opposed to merely avoid turnovers. A coach that occasionally
tries to win thirty to twenty instead of aiming for
every game to be twenty to sixteen with a defense
that can't ever keep it close to sixteen in the playoffs,
sort of a fly in the ointment of that approach.
Four one two, three three three eight ninety nine thirty
(06:37):
nine or eight three three four one two wxdx its
final Argentina one two to one. This is also a
coach that knows this quarterbacking question, knows his skills as
much as any coach in the NFL, and may be
able to craft an offense for him that still benefits
(06:58):
what skills he has, but he also can take into
account the protections that he requires. There's a quote from
McCarthy that I remember, and I dug it back up
again from one of his press conferences in May. I
think it was the Mini Camp opener where he said
about Rogers, the football conversations are always fun, they always
(07:20):
have been.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
There's history there.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think it's important for us as an offensive coaching
staff to make sure that we lean towards that experience,
but also tie it to what's established here last year.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Well, what was established here last year with Rogers.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Is that he's still good enough to lead this offense
to beat most of the inferior opponents that they'll see
most of the time, most of the games against the
lesser teams, the Steelers will win most of the time,
unless they're in Cleveland. It was also established that in
last year's offense against better teams, the Steelers lost most
(07:59):
of the time, and most of the time they look
bad doing it, including that postseason lost to Houston. So
she had a one in six record with a minus
seventy eight point differential against playoff teams. And that's pretty
much all you need to know about where the Steelers
were as a club, good enough to beat the lesser
(08:20):
teams most of the time, rarely good enough to beat
the better teams. How McCarthy's presence influences the offensive meeting room,
and how effectively his working relationship with Rogers reignites that
will tell the entire tale of how twenty twenty six
(08:40):
will go. You remember, Rogers called it a pinch me
moment when he came back and saw McCarthy here and
all the assistants that he remembered from Green Bay and whatnot. Well,
I hope that after he's pinched, he wakes up in
the second round of the AFC playoffs, because the Steelers
haven't been there for the last nine seasons. I've been
hibernating by then, and no one will have more of
(09:04):
an impact on that potential result in Pittsburgh than that
combination of him and McCarthy. And if you search for
a different truth, I think you're intentionally ignoring the obvious.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I hate to be that reductive about it. I hate
to be that predictable about it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
But for the Steelers this year, they've painted themselves in
this position where it's coach and quarterback. So if you're
listening to National Sports Talk, if you're seeing Steven A.
Smith sounding off on Mondays after Steeler games, if you're
listening to Colin Coward rant about the coach and the
quarterback all the time, the Steelers can't escape being in
(09:44):
that pool because that's who they are this year. Everything
else about them is still back in the eight to
ten win range.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
What tilts the Steelers to.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
A team that might be finally better than a ten
win team and actually threaten the playoffs is if McCarthy
gets that one more season out of Rogers. What pushes
them down below five hundred for the first time since
two thousand and three is if McCarthy.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Can't find that can't.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Get deep into that well and rediscover it, and Rogers
is just another year older and he's finally over the cliff.
And it feels like oversimplified analysis, but it's never been
more true. And the league is going that direction coaching, quarterback, quarterback,
and coach, and the Steelers are there right now because
everything else is what it has been for the past
(10:33):
nine seasons. Good enough to be in the race, not
good enough to elevate, because as we saw with Roethlisberger
getting over, he was one that elevated into more than
what they had, and when he wasn't that player anymore,
that's how you got nine wins, scratching into the playoffs
and getting blown out by Kansas City in his last
(10:54):
game four one, two, three three three ninety nine thirty nine. Now,
speaking Ofthlisberger, we'll come back. We'll talk about his tete
a tete with Tory Smith, the Baltimore Ravens wide receiver,
and why that was so interesting to really view from
thirty thousand feet, About how these two teams are perceived
(11:16):
by some of their alumni, and how these two rivals
might actually play out in the AFC North. We'll talk
about that next again. Argentina just won two to one
over England. Wild game of the second half one of
five to nine the X just a couple of minutes
last before we get to Kevin Gorman from TribLive to
talk about the Pirates. Here on one O five to
nine the X Spain and Argentina in the World Cup Final.
(11:40):
Because Argentina just won two to one. That was a
wild second half. Tons of chances for Argentina. They just
kept kicking down the door, kicking down the door, and
eventually it collapsed. You might have heard about this. I
think I might have brought it up at one point
when I filled in for Mark, but I ended up
writing about it at trib Live because I found it interesting.
(12:01):
Speaking of the Steelers, Ben Roethlisberger in his podcast did
a few weeks ago of the Ravens. He said the
Steelers going to go twelve and five and beat the
Ravens twice, and he said, I think they're falling apart.
I don't think that the same team. They feel different.
Their window is closed. And Tory Smith, the former receiver,
does some TV down in Baltimore, and his response was,
(12:21):
who cares what Roethlisberger thinks. He's never going to say
anything positive about the Ravens. As long as you have
Lamar Jackson, your window is there. It's funny because he's
the same guy that people were saying that about in Pittsburgh,
but he was in his thirties and Lamar is still
in his twenties and is very much the best player
in the league. Well, not based on what his fellow
players think. That's one big league wide talking point is
(12:44):
why he was so lowly rated in the NFL's top
one hundred list.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
He dropped to like the mid thirties or something like that.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
But regardless, Smith went on to say this, and this
is the point that I wanted to get to. They
have a false sense of reality in Pittsburgh that it's
going to change because Mike Tomlin was the problem. They're
going to find out real quick that the roster is
still trash. And this is where the hyperbole gets in,
(13:16):
all right, Ben saying that they're gonna go twelve and five,
to me is hyperbole. I don't They might go ten
and seven again, but be a better version of ten
and seven, maybe eleven wins, and maybe if like I
said before, McCarthy and Rogers are all that together, they
finally get a playoff win in almost a decade, maybe,
(13:37):
so he's made a little hyperbolic, especially when he presumes
a sweep against Baltimore and they're a twelve win team.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
But Smith is.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Doing the same thing when he says the Steelers' roster
is trash.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
It's not trash.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's not as good as we think it is, as
Zeis and I were talking about, but it's not trash.
And the point that he brings up about Tomlin is
in too, because we are seeing that. We're even seeing
that from long time local Tomlin loyalists, You're even seeing
that from people within the Steelers media portion of the
(14:13):
media that are talking about how much better things are
going to be offensively, but they're doing it without directly
saying that Tomlin was what was holding it back. But
all the stats and all the narratives that were deemed
invalid that were criticisms of Tomlin by those who were
guardians at the gate for the Steelers, all of a sudden,
(14:34):
are now being allowed to be talked about, you know,
Like a popular one that I was laughed at when
it was dismissed was how the Steelers performed last year
against teams that were not in the playoffs, but they
(14:57):
ended up beating anyway, like the Cults the Ravens twice,
like teams that might have gotten into the playoffs if
the Steelers hadn't beaten them. And you heard those that
were loyalists to Tomlins saying, oh, you know, don't look
at that record about how the Steelers weren't good against
playoff teams, because you know there were like three or
(15:19):
four other wins there that against the Ravens, against the Colts,
that those would have been playoff teams if the Steelers
hadn't beaten them. And that was the pretzel logic that
was used to advance it. Hey, Tomlin's doing a better
job than you think. And now I keep hearing that
referenced as well. Don't you think McCarthy and his offense
would have done better against some of those teams to
improve that win six record against.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Teams that were in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So all of a sudden, like those what if stats,
those imaginary stats those, yeah, but Tomlin defending stats, We
don't need to worry about those anymore because McCarthy's gonna
fix it. McCarthy's he's gonna bring things a step forward.
So even some of them loyalists, and some of those who,
like I said before, are guardians at the gate when
(16:04):
it comes to media. Narratives in Pittsburgh are allowing themselves
to admit out loud that things could be better with McCarthy.
And it wasn't exactly a warm reception to McCarthy initially
taking over. I've not been on board with it. I'm
still not on board with it. I think other people
who didn't like the McCarthy hired first are further along
(16:25):
than I am. I still want to see results first.
I still think it's going to be more of the
same largely, but man, until he loses a regular season game,
the whole Pittsburgh guy coming back to Pittsburgh, and just
the thought of something new and different. That isn't Tomlin
being nine and eight or ten and seven. If McCarthy's
(16:45):
nine in eight and ten and seven, at least it's
a different version of it. That's one folks over. That's
one folks over, and people are more willing to have
an open mind than I thought would be the case
by this point the season when McCarthy was first hired.
We'll get back to Pie next Kevin Gorman one to
five nine the X five o'clock hour the Mark Madden Show.
All Star Game last night. National League loses by a
(17:07):
final score of four to nothing. They only get themselves
three hits. Kevin Gorman from trib Live covers the Pirates
for us. He joins me right now in the Mark
Badden Show here on the x G keV. I guess
it would have been nice if the team that had
the best offense in baseball and a few guys there, huh.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, that might have helped. You know, they were the
only team. No, they had two representatives at the game,
but they didn't have anybody play in the game. The
only team in all of baseball that did not have
one player appear in the game. And interesting for a
team that is above five hundred for the first time
in a decade not to have anyone make an appearance
in the All Star Game, in a game where they have,
(17:47):
you know, one of baseball's best offenses, and none of
baseball's position players show up in the game. So I
wouldn't call it a Travis de but I feel like
that was a real slight toward at least two players
who were wor and that's Brandon Lowe and Brian Reynolds.
I felt like they were both worthy and when I
was watching the introductions, I kept thinking to myself, well,
(18:08):
you know, those guys are better than this guy and
this guy and this guy. You know that that that's
that's part of it. But you know, there's also something
to be said for, you know, the All Star Game,
whether it's representing the game superstars, or whether it's representing
the guys who have had the best first half. And
I think that's where the pirate with the Pirates are
(18:29):
up against.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well that was ascraft versus schemes, yes, exactly, but it's
also you know, what have you done for me lately
versus what have you done over the course of your career.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
You know, Brandon Lowe obviously, you know as a two
time All Star in the American League, you know second
base is a loaded position in the National League. But
still for a guy who was leading all second basemen,
I believe in home runs, RBIs and slugging and I'm
not sure about ops, but definitely slugging. You know that
(19:01):
that was a real oversight, you know, I think you know,
you look, you can look at his batting average, and
you can look at the prolonged slumps with one of
which he was in at the end of the break,
right before the break. But Brandon Law was a real
catalyst for this offense being what it is, It's one
of those things I think you want to see all
the stars play, you know, I kind of like, you know,
(19:22):
cool to see Mason Miller come in, Cool to see
a world as Chapman come in. You know, two guys
with Pittsburgh ties. Even though you know, Skeins and Ashcraft
didn't pitch, we did get to see, you know, something
that represented Pittsburgh there, you know, one a little bit
more so than the other. One played for the Pirates,
one grew up in Pittsburgh. So I think it's interesting
that there's some Mason Miller rumors, you know, with the
(19:43):
Pirates and boy, you want to talk about bullstering your bullpen.
Either one of those guys would be a great ad.
But you know, Mason Miller has years of club control,
so I don't know what you'd have to give to
get him, but certainly imagine, you know, bring back another
Pittsburgh kid as the closer, and this one who's you know,
(20:04):
flirting with one hundred and five miles per hour on
his fastball. That could really be a devastating addition.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Would O'Neal Cruz have to be part of that deal?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Oh, I don't think so. I think you're trading him
for prospect. You know, I don't think you're giving up
a major piece of your team. And I don't think
the Pirates should. I don't think they should. Look at
the small glimpse that Jake Manghum has given them, and
it's not a you know, it's a very good glimpse.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
It's one of the topics I wanted to talk about,
is what the Pirates have done since June eleventh. You know,
Cruise went on the IL on June tenth, and since
June eleventh, two guys have stepped in and essentially replaced
Cruise in a way that no one could have ever imagined.
You know, we're talking Mangum. Here's his slash line three
(20:51):
forty three, three ninety three, four fifty four. So a
guy with very little pop has an eight forty seven
ops and seven doubles, a t bul of homer and
ten RBI and seven stolen bases on top of that.
Although he's been constantly five times but Mangum has you know,
I wouldn't say he's played great in center field, but
he but he's been representative. I mean he has not
(21:13):
you know, he's been at least as good as Cruise was.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
You know, cru Cruise makes plays. We don't give him
credit for it. He makes a lot of mistakes that
we definitely uh you know, magnify and they're magnified by
the way he makes them. But as Merlin Valdez since
June eleventh, which the day after Cruise went on the IL,
in twenty three games three forty six, four oh two,
(21:38):
seven fifty six with a one point one five nine ops,
six doubles of triple eight homers twenty two RBIs that
that's just in those twenty three games. I mean a
lot of people cite his twenty eight games where he
has ten homers in twenty seven RBIs and you know
in his first twenty eight games. But just in that snapshot,
(21:59):
since Cruise went on the a I L he has
replaced the power and that's, uh, that's pretty amazing to
all of a sudden have a rookie come in and
not only play you know well and right field, but
but become a middle of the order batan, a guy
who they can put in the cleanup spot between Reynolds
and O'Hearn that that's just been an amazing addition for
(22:19):
the Pirates and one that could help them make some
interesting moves if they did want to trade a major leaguer,
if they did want to include a major leaguer to
go get somebody, you know, you could do something with Cruise. Horwitz. Yeah, well,
I can't see them trade. I mean O'Neil Cruise is
a very unique player, and uh and what he brings
(22:39):
as a dynamic that you cannot replace. I mean, you
could say in the short term, these guys are filling
in admirably, but you know, I mean O'Neill Cruise is
a blend of power, speed, the arm strength. I mean,
you don't find that in baseball. And it's just that
the mistakes are so glaring that sometimes we forget about,
(23:01):
you know, the things that he does that are truly special.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So what happens then when he comes back, is it
against righty's Valdez sits and against lefties, well, gosh, I
would assume then that Manga would definitely sit and would
be a bench player in both situations, but then you
still got to make a call between o'hearne and Horowitz, right.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, And I think, you know, we may see Horowitz
before we see Cruse, but that just depends. But you know,
with Horwartz's injury, it's a matter of how quickly his
leg his hamstring can heal. With Cruise, it's not just
a matter of healing, but also getting his grip back,
getting his swings, you know, swing timing back. So there's
some things I'm sure Horwitz at some point can start
(23:46):
swinging the bat before Cruz can really kind of get
into everything. I would imagine Jake Mangum is not the
everyday centerfield or when Cruz comes back, but I think
it could be a rotation where you see Cruse, you know,
similar not maybe identical to what Connor Griffin did when
he first came back, you know, a day on a
day off, maybe a day as a DH. I could
(24:08):
see them trying to get CRUs worked in slowly. But
I do think that the d H spot, which the
initial play before they signed Marcelosuna, was to rotate the
players through there to keep some of the veterans off
the field. But in the lineup, and I could see
them doing that where they rotate Cruise, O'Hearn, Horwitz, Reynolds,
(24:32):
you know, even law that they could they could use
their depth to their advantage and keep some guys fresh.
I think that's why the addition of Jacob Gonzalez was important,
is that they actually have a guy who can be
a backup shortstop, but he can also play other positions.
So if you if you're like his bet, you can
get him in the lineup, whether it's at first base
(24:52):
or third base, or shortstop or second base. And and
so that was that was a crucial addition. I don't
expect him to come in and replace jarede Riolo as
the starting short stuff while Connor Griffin's out, but I
do think that you can have that ability to slide
Triollo to third, Gonzales at short or have you know,
Triolo at shortened Gonzalez at first, which is something I
(25:14):
think is more probably in the plans, but you know,
it gives it. You know, if you want to defensively,
you can probably put you know, you can you probably
spell Nick Gonzals a little bit. You can probably spell
Brandon Lau a little bit. You can spell ohearn a
little bit if you want to and and give those
guys a day where they're the d H and I think,
(25:34):
you know, that's that's going to come at the expense
of Marcelo Zuna, the twelve million dollar mistake, and the
Pirates are going to have to figure out what to
do with him. I just think there's this reluctance, given
how much they're paying him to do anything prior to
the trade deadline. You know, if they can unload his contract,
they will, and you know, maybe that includes, you know,
dangling extra prospect in the deal, or or sending him
(25:57):
to somebody where you're taking on you of control and
exchange for an expiring contract. That's that's probably the only
way they do that. But you know, DSA is probably
the most likely avenue for the pirates, But I don't
think they want to give up on it a Zoon,
especially when in the situations that they're using him, he's
starting to become productive. I think there's a hope that hey,
(26:19):
if this guy, if we can get into August and
this guy can kind of find his groove, you know,
they've got their fingers crossed that they can still make
something out of this because you know, otherwise it's just
been pretty much a disaster in terms of what he's
brought to the to the plate, not to the club,
but to the plate.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Finally, Kevin foundal moments with Kevin Gorman a trip Live,
Paul skeens, what is the more true statement here that
he knows his dip in velocity is real and he's
just downplaying it, or he really doesn't think it's a
problem and he's just going to keep going the way
(26:55):
things are.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I think it's somewhere in the middle. I think there's
some concerns about ourm angle and release that you know
that it's slightly different. You know. I talked to somebody
in the game about that and just said, you know,
his release is just a little bit different than it
used to be, and sometimes that has something to do
with a velocity, and that's a change you have to
(27:17):
kind of make in the off season. It's hard to
make those changes to kind of get back to your
original release in the middle of a season. You know,
some guys are capable of it. I would imagine most
guys that's an off season identifying it. And I think
that's why the Pirates said, hey, there's things we can
identify and give to Paul. It was really more imagined
a matter of can Paul make those changes, you know,
(27:40):
in the course of a season. But I also think
that there's very much a a six foot six, two
hundred and sixty pound guy. As much as Paul Skins
is in tip top shape, I think fatigue becomes a factor,
especially in the heat. And I think he's worried about recovery.
I think that's a concern of his. He made it
(28:01):
very clear to me when I talked to him about
the dipping velocity that he felt that ninety seven played
just as well as ninety eight. He can get PEPs wrong.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, Well, the problem is there's no evidence to suggest
that he's right on that, because his fastball is being
hit for more, or as he's given up more home
runs in his fastball this year at this point that
he has either the last two years. In fact, he's
going to five homers in his fastball, the same as
was the case for the total of his first two seasons.
(28:28):
And Kevin the change up is getting hit, it's getting
slugged for a lot more, probably because there's less differential
between the fastball speed and the change up.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Speed well, And I think you make a good point
here to Tim and and the point I was going
to say is it's one thing when you say, hey,
you know, ninety seven to one versus ninety eight two,
isn't that much of a difference. We've seen late in
games Paul Skeens's fastball has been down to the ninety
four ninety five four, right, yes, yeah, ninety four is
a huge difference between ninety eight and when you're seeing
(28:58):
the velocity during the course of a game, that's showing
signs of fatigue as well. So you know that that's
been The interesting thing is that you know, if Paul
Skins has the green light to throw a hundred pitches
and I'm not counting this last game where they had
a forty five minute inning and Paul Skins was down
for a while. I was even surprised he came back
(29:20):
out given what happened. You know, with that ten run inning,
you know that's that's a killer for a starting pitcher.
You know, it's great for your team, but for a
starting pitcher, you know, he's down way too long between it,
you know, between ups. But I do think you know
that that makes him much more hittable. But the real
(29:40):
concern to him is that and this illustrates your point
a little bit, maybe even better that My concern is
more that he dipped from ninety eight and we see
him at ninety four in the fifth inning, But when
he's throwing ninety eight, he's been very hitable in the
first two innings of the game. That's when some of
these home runs are coming. So I think it's one
of the those things where when you don't have the
(30:02):
splinker and your splinker was ninety four and the fastball
was ninety nine or you know, one hundred, you know,
people would people were trying to pick their poison. Okay,
which one are we going to go after? We're going
to go after the high Vila. There's some guys that
are better hitting Wielow, and there's some guys that were like, well,
the splinker is at least, you know, that's that's a
(30:24):
pitch I can see even if I can't hit it.
But the splinker has not been, you know, a dynamic
pitch for him anymore. And so I think that's part
of what made Paul Skiing special is that you know
that he's he's trying to round out the repertoire. But
at the same time, he doesn't have the one hundred
mile an hour fastball and a time when people are throwing,
(30:45):
you know, in the one o two, one oh three
range like a Jacob Mezerowski, But he also doesn't have
that secondary pitch. You know that the changeup has become
one of his secondary pitches, and I don't think that
is nearly as impactful as the splinker was.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, and it's one thing to say that it was
averaging ninety eight nine in his rookie season and it's
ninety six nine now, it's only two miles an hour.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
How big of a difference is that, really, Well, it was.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Averaging ninety eight nine then because it was occasionally one
oh one and would bottom out at ninety seven. Now
it's always ninety seven. That's the difference. And then there's
a much like you said, seven mile an hour difference
on a splinker is something a lot different than a
ninety six mile an hour fastball to an eighty something
(31:33):
mile an hour change up, because you know, again I
go back to that it's the setup for the secondary
pitches is as much the issue as the fastball itself.
Because he is still getting good chase rate on the fastball,
and like the whiff rate on the fastball and the
putaway rate on the fastball, it's down, but it's not
down that significantly. I think it's the ray of other
pitches that he's fallen in love with that are all
(31:53):
set up on the fastball that the fastball is now
hurting so and he's not getting deeper into games. If
the goal of all this is to get deeper in the game,
it's not happening because he hasn't seen the seventh inning
since mid May.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
No.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
I think that's the biggest point, is that Paul Skins
is a guy that should be getting you into the
seventh or eighth inning, and you you don't expect him
to get you the eighth inning every game, but he's
capable of pitching complete games, and I'm not expecting that
of any of the starters, especially in the in the
the most brutal part of the season, you know, and
when you're you're mid July and early August, when it's
the hottest part of the year. But he's not gotten
(32:26):
deep into games. He's not been efficient. He gives up
a lot of hits and as we saw in his
laugh outing you know, it's not just that he's given up,
you know, a solo home runner too. Those are those
to me are forgivable. When you when you miss on
a pitch or or a guy you know makes a
good swing, you know, you tip your hat and say, okay,
(32:47):
as long as it's the solo shot. But when you
when you're giving up you know, multi run homers, and
when you're giving up back to back doubles and followed
by a single, and and you you know that the
teams are finding you hittable, that's more of a concern.
Yet here's the thing, Paul Skenes isn't the most concerning
pitcher on the staff for me. I think he's obviously
the one who's you know, the biggest deal for the Pirates,
(33:09):
and and that his record is what it is is
a problem that the Pirates, you know, should be I
think they should have a seven to fifty winning percent
when Paul skin is on the MoU, not a five hundred.
But Mitch Keller is an issue.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Oh he's lost.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I mean, like I'm not even ready to see he's
a he's a question or concern. I just think he's lost,
especially since this was the half season where he's supposed
to be good. Now we're in it, that's yeah, Now
we're in Keller territory and that's the problem.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Always been a first half guy and a bad second
half guy, and he's coming off a bad first half.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Like I'm more worried about Ashcraft and how they handle
him because of his innings count.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Well, like I said, they're going to have to bring
Maginsky back into the rotation at some point. And I
think Ashcraft, and I think Ashcraft understands because of his
injury history. You know, he's had Tommy John, He's he's
he's had I think another shoulder in injury to his
non throwing shoulder. I mean, this is a guy who
has been down on the IL. I think he understands
(34:06):
how his health is at a premium. But Mitch Keller's
your highest paid pitcher. He's your highest paid player in
terms of this year's contract and you know this year's salary,
and he's not performing and he's not performing at his level,
which isn't Paul Skein's level. You know, it's one thing
we say, Paul Skeen's isn't performing at a cy young
or a rookie of the year level that we've seen
(34:28):
the first two years of his career. Mitch Keller isn't
performing at the Mitch Keller level we've come to expect,
which is a mid rotation arm. You know, this is
a guy who's been one, you know, so I don't
I would be curious to see what the Pirates do
with their starting rotation coming out of the break, whether
they shuffle it at all, whether Paul Skeins makes his start.
You know, is Paul Skin's going to start Friday against
(34:49):
Cleveland or they're going to have him skip a start.
You know, I would imagine he wants to stay on
on on rotation, But I don't know what they do
if you know, if you move somebody be up or down,
and try to figure out a way to kind of
get Mitch Keller jump started, because that that's been a
problem for the Pirates that the guy, the two guys
who are supposed to be the innings eaters aren't going
(35:10):
deep into games. Uh And the two guys that were
supposed to be, you know, they're there, their most reliable
pitchers haven't been in the first half, and so a
lot of these problems in the bullpen have been you know,
compounded by the starters not going deep into games. I
hate to put all of it. I don't think they've
built a great bullpen, especially in long relief. Those bulk
(35:33):
relievers have have not that that that was that was
not a good plan whatever they had. But and I
think the plan all along was, you know, for Majinski
to be one of the bulk relievers. But the starting
pitching has has to be the If it's going to
be the foundation for this team, which the offense was
in the first half, if it's going to be part
(35:54):
of the foundation in the second half, They've got to
get better performance from from Skins and Color in particular,
and then I've got to figure out a way for
all of their starters to be more efficient to go
deeper in games the way that Ashcraft did on a
regular basis in the first half.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Kevin, thanks appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Thanks for having me Tim.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Kevin Gorman from Trib Live, our baseball writer, read him
daily at Trib Sports. When we come back. It's the
last word with former Pirate Freddy Sanchez. His recollection twentieth
Anniversary of the six All Star Game, which was here
at PNC Park. We'll hear from Freddy Freddy Freddy next
on one to five nine The X Last Word. Mark
(36:33):
Badden out in Columbus today and Mark will be back tomorrow.
He's seeing ac DC at the Horseshoe. Marko rejoined the
show at three o'clock tomorrow. Before we go today, I
played the Jason Bay interview that I had from Breakfast
with Benz at trib Live.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
You can hear it in.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Its entirety on the podcast page there. But we also
had Freddy Sanchez on the podcast to remember that two
thousand and six All Star Game from P and C Park.
You remember he was a writing guy that year. He
didn't even get on the ballot to start the year,
supposed to be Joe Randa starting at third base that
year for the Pirates, and eventually Sanchez took over. He
(37:13):
played some second played some short played, mainly third base though,
and was hitting three point fifty eight at the All
Star break and because of that, because the game was here,
he got eight hundred and fifty thousand writing votes, which
got the attention of the late great Phil Garner, who
was a former Pittsburgh Pirate World Series champion, the manager
of the Astros, who had gone to the World Series previously,
(37:35):
also a second basement, third basement during his time in
the Majors and with the Pirates. So Freddy Sanchez named
to the team, and I caught up with Freddy to
remember that night twenty years ago this week and give
me his thoughts on what do you remember about P
and C Park hosting the All Star Game and his
appearance in it in that special year which culminated in
(37:56):
a batting championship.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Oh gosh, I tell everybody this, Pittsburgh's deathly a top three.
I was fortunate to play in two of the top
three stadiums I think in Major League Baseball, with the
with the Pirates and the Giants, So those stadiums are freaking.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Second to none.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
And I got to go back there with the Savannah
Bananas when they went to PNC and just the view
and everything we had, we had one of the sweets.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
It was just it was amazing.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
So but that that week, I mean, I don't know
if you remember, but I think I was a write
in that year.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I wasn't even on the ballot.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I was gonna ask you about that, because you didn't
start on the ballot that year and sort of amplify
your point. If I remember correctly, you had something like
eight hundred and fifty thousand write in votes. You were
you were the fifth highest vote getter at third base,
even though you weren't on the ballot to begin with.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Yeah, I mean that that that's something that that's something
that was so special that that that showed, you know
that the Pittsburgh fans and and everybody appreciated what I
was had done that year. And I just remember being
so grateful that I was a you know, because I
wouldn't have made the All Star Game any other way
if I didn't get those ride ins. So I just
remember being so grateful to the city for them showing
(39:09):
the love that they had towards me to get me
into the All Star Game.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Or I wouldn't have got in.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
But that's that's what I remember leading up was my gosh,
I'm in the All Star Game. This is unbelievable, this
is crazy. But that night I'll never forget when you know,
I think it was who's standing next to me. I
might have been Ryan Howard or someone that when they
started giving me a standing ovation right before my name
(39:37):
wasn't even called yet and I'll never forget. One of
the guys looked at me and said, oh, man, I
have the chills right now because the place was going crazy,
chanting Freddie, Freddie, And that was something I will never forget.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
It was.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
It was insane. It was so loud, and the atmosphere
was so crazy. And the and support that I got
that night is something that I that I tell everybody about.
I'm like, you know, because they asked me, how was
your time in Pittsburgh? You know, I said, did that
was the So that was kind of like my second home.
It was some of the greatest times I've ever had there.
That's where I got my opportunity, That's where everything happened.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
And and you know.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
My biggest regret, one of my biggest regrets is we
didn't win in Pittsburgh for the fans.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
That's one of my biggest regrets in playing is we
didn't get a chance to.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Win and bring them a you know, a winner in Pittsburgh,
and that was something that I wanted to do. But
they came out every night and support it. But that
night wash I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Right, So my thanks to Freddy Sanchez, also to Kevin
Gorman from Trip Live. That is the last word. Thanks
to Jason Bay and Paul's Ice Too. Mark back tomorrow.
He'll be on at three after his return from Columbus.
This is one of five nine the X
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Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com