John G. Howard: Retired Major General on NZ considering joining Ocean of Peace Alliance alongside Fiji, Australia

The New Zealand Government is formally exploring the idea of joining the Ocean of Peace Alliance signed by Fiji and Australia on July 6

The treaty commits each country to come to the other's aid in the event of an armed attack in the Pacific.

Retired Major General and Senior Fellow of the New Zealand Initiative, John G. Howard, told Andrew Dickens "with the rising complexity that we see in the geopolitical domain, it would make sense for all nations to think, quite clearly about what they want to do for their nation's security, and that's the opportunity here."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
So New Zealand could be set to join a new
Pacific defense alliance. The government's formerly exploring signing up to
the Australia Fiji Pact, which is signed on Monday. Of course,
that this move comes just days after China launched a
ballistic missile into the South Pacific.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Now.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
John G. Howard is a retired Major general and a
senior fellow of the New Zealand Initiative, and he's with
us this morning. Wand it here John, Good morning, Andrew.
How significant is this?

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I think it's a significant and an opportunity that we
should be looking at with great interest.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Is it purely because of the Chinese missile tests and
the Chinese flexing of their muscles or is this something
that we should have done a long time ago.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, it's probably a range of issues and they shouldn't
come as a surprise to anybody that the world we're
now in is not what it was some time ago.
So with a rising complexity that we see in the
geopolitical domain, it would make sense for all nations to
think quite clearly about what they want to do for
their nation's security, and that's the opportunity here.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
We already have an agreement with Australia. I mean, what
does Fiji bring to this? Not much at all, I
would have thought, Well, no.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
I'd challenge that. I'd say, yes, we've got an agreement
with Australia. The ANZAC alliances I'd call it, even though
that's not what it's called. But you as an ANZAC
myself serving with Australians, we've been doing that for well
over one hundred years. But we've also been doing that
with our Fijian and other Pacific island friends. But I've
worked with the Fijians on operations and in training for
over forty years. They produce great soldiers, sailors and airmen

(01:49):
and they definitely share what i'd call the warrior ethos
when it comes to complexity and combat. But really we've
worked with them for a long time nationally and we
don't have anything down and writing, but we do have
an affinity that is not found in other parts of
the world, so is us. It offers us an opportunity

(02:11):
to better understand the Near region, and more importantly, we
should be asking how do we collectively address the challenges
that the nation now faces.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
As a former serviceman, are you are you approving of
the way New Zealand is dealing with China? Should we
be more upfront, should we be more aggressive in our
comments to them? Or are we playing at this game
the right way?

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Oh that's a great question. So I heard with great interest,
and I really appreciate the Prime Minister, the Minister of
Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Defense who came out immediately,
and given that the one minister was overseas, the messaging
was very clear what the challenge for our nation is
giving social license to our elected officials, and by that

(02:55):
I mean all of us in this country need to
have a really hard discussion about national security and a
manner that we haven't done in our lifetime. Now, if
we can do that, we can bring the authority to
the cabinet table. Men underneath the cabinet table, our national
security system now needs to move at the speed of relevance.
Down on what I'm talking about. Here are those officials

(03:17):
and the agencies that actually deliver what the cabinet table demands.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Because so can I just thank you for your service
for our country, John, and and we's you a very
happy mataiki today and.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
To you and to the country, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Thank you so much, John G. Howard. He has retired
Major General, Senior Fellow of the New Zealand's Initiative.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
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