Ben Van Berkel: President of the Wellington Rugby Referees Association on Wellington Rugby and local referees reaching new deal after abuse causes shutdown

There's positive movement in the club rugby refereeing stand-down in the capital.

Referees will still boycott all club matches this weekend, after 19 reported incidents of verbal abuse towards Wellington whistlers, but they are working with Wellington Rugby to be back officiating the following weekend.

Wellington Rugby Referees Association president Ben van Berkel says things won't change completely in a week - but they had to stand by their referees.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks HEEDB.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Wellington Rugby and local referees have struck a deal after
abuse towards officials forced the cancelation of all club rugby
this weekend. Nineteen incidents of verbal abuse have been reported
this season, prompting referees to withdraw their services. Wellington Rugby
and the Local Referees Association have now agreed on new

(00:32):
measures to better support officials, with rugby set to resume
next weekend. President of the Wellington Rugby Referees Association, Ben
van Berkel joins me, now, very good morning to.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
You morning, Kerry. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh no, this is something that really grinds mcgear's it
really does. But the thing that struck me is hearing
about Russia being allowed back into the Olympics, into the
Olympic Games. Now they were banned because of the war
in Ukraine. They're now allowed back. But the war in
Ukraine's going on here you've got rugby resuming. I cannot
imagine that the attitudes of people will change in a

(01:09):
week towards referees. So it's how is it going to
change in a week.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
It's not so much that the attitude will change in
a week. It's more that we start up for our
referees by making this decision. And we've had really constructive
conversations with WFE this week and we feel like we've
got a more mutually beneficial path moving forward and we
can put this to bed and just get through essentially

(01:36):
the next six weeks of community rugby, and then we'll
continue to work in the off season around twenty twenty
seven and beyond.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Because this is not a new problem. This is you know,
we've done talk back on the abuse of officials and
the disgusting abuse that they have to wear through numerous
codes all around the country. Did you just not feel
supported by Wellington Rugby? Is that why you had to
make a stand.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
It's not that we didn't feel supported. There were some
tension there in terms of the outcomes to some of
the abuse incidents.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
I see.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
It was more around just we said enough is enough.
After well we gave written letter to w I think
it was about three weeks ago now saying that if
this was to continue, we wouldn't be appointing referees, and
that was after we'd had sixteen verbal abuse incidents, and
then following three more last weekend, we decided that yeah,

(02:37):
there's just this can't continue.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I mean, jolly got on you. Why on earth should
you give up your free time to go and referee
a game you love to get that sort of abuse.
And it's across all age groups. Is it or a
specific age group or are there specific clubs that are
worse than others?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, it's across all age groups. Of the nineteen two
have been in junior rugby. They are referees who haven't
been appointed by us, but just like volunteer coaches who
are out there referring to the kids. For example four
we're in second score rugby in thirteen and senior club rugby.
So I'm not going to go into specifics about clubs

(03:18):
because it's I don't want to call them. It's more
of a wider issue than just individual clubs.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well it is, as I say, it goes right around
the country. You know, this is a nation wide issue.
But then you look at the FIFA Games that are
on now, and there's been some magnificent games and some
amazing results, but you've got the Egyptian coach absolutely losing
his shinizzle blaming the referee and accusing him to all
intents and purposes, have been corrupt. And you think, how

(03:48):
on earth is that. Are you supposed to tell people
to respect the referee when one of the biggest games
on the biggest platforms in the world, you've got people
abusing the ref.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Oh I fully agree, and the referee is always a
very easy escapegoat for anyone to use. It doesn't matter
what the players have done during that game, or actions
of or tactics and everything that the coaches have done.
If a referee can make one bad decision and look,
we can own that we're not going to get everything right.
You say, we're volunteers, We're just out there trying to

(04:19):
facilitate a game. But one decision can come back and
suddenly it's all the referees fault. It doesn't matter if
the players in our context knocked on the ball ten
times or committed all sorts of penalties. It's always the
referees fault.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Do you think because I know there was a bit
of doing and throwing between the top tennis players in
the in the Nadal Federer Djokovic era, where I think
it was Federer who felt that you know it was
pointless having computers. They were happy to go, you know,
go with the swings and roundabouts that some calls went

(04:57):
with you, some went against you, and you just accepted
that it would work itself out in the end when
you had humans calling the line calls. Do you think
with a computerization of of refereeing that people are more
demanding of referees.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
I think we need to separate professional refereeing from community
referee because.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
I don't think we can do do they no exactly?

Speaker 3 (05:24):
For us, normally it's just one referee. We don't have
assistant referees in probably ninety percent of the games we do,
and we definitely don't have a television match official that
we can go up to. So we'll just get one
look at a decision we're making, and, like I've touched on,
it could be wrong. We might have not seen something,
but we are out there trying to do our best

(05:46):
and make the decisions based on what we can see.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
What kind of abuse are you getting without saying the
words themselves? Is it threats against ref's well being? Is
it just been called a useless C word?

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Is it? Yeah, as you say, I can't you the
exact language on here, but there are quite a few
threats towards referees in our families. Go sometimes it is
using profane language regarding decisions was made, whether that's from
the players, the coaches, or spectators. But yeah, just anything,

(06:22):
isn't it acceptable? Let alone threats towards my referees.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Threats towards a referee over a social game of rugby.
It's like, yep, it's what is this world coming to being? Honestly,
no arguments. Okay, So speaking to I mean, I really
love the fact that you have done this, that you've
just drawn a line in the sand and said no,
we're not putting up with this and it's not acceptable

(06:50):
and we're going to call it out. I know I've
only got you for about thirty more seconds. But what
would your advice be to those who play and those
who support rugby and sport around the country.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Well, passion is a big part of rugby, and there's
nothing wrong with passion, but one of the core values
is also respect, and that respect should be shown to
referees regardless whether we get a decision right or wrong.
We're happy to have a constructive conversation after the game,
for example, but there's no need to throw abuse at us.
We're out there as volunteers to trying to have some

(07:25):
fun with them, to players and facilitate a game that
we all love. We are human, we're out there to
enjoy it. So if they can do that themselves without
throwing abuse at us, then all the better for it.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Good on you, and I hope you. You know, if
it doesn't improve, I hope you just draw a line
in the sand again. And that happens right around the country.
If reefs are getting abused, if officials are getting abused,
just call it. No, you do it, then you ref
the games. You think you're so bloody good, you do
it yourselves.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
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