February 18, 2026 • 33 mins
The Government will today reveal its back down on controversial Auckland housing intensification plans amid fierce public criticism.
New planning rules would currently allow another 2 million homes in Auckland.
But last month the Government announced it'll water down the rules with an announcement expected this afternoon.
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon told Kerre Woodham a balance needs to be struck.
He says Auckland has to grow with affordable housing, but quite rightly some Aucklanders have said they don't want big buildings next to their homes.
He’s also allaying concerns about a proposal for a $9 toll on Auckland's Harbour Bridge.
The Infrastructure Commission recommended tolling the existing bridge, and second new crossing, to reduce construction costs on the Crown.
But Luxon told Woodham it's only an idea.
He says the Government hasn't decided whether it'll be a new bridge or a tunnel yet, and decisions on how to fund it will come later.
He says tolls are the only way to pull forward the development of new roads, faster.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerry Wood of Mornings podcast from
News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be welcome to the first of our our long
catch ups with the Prime Minister. Christopher Leuxen. Election twenty
twenty six is on November seven, two hundred and sixty
one days. To be precise, is the current government doing
enough for you to give them a second term? Possibly not,
but the alternative probably doesn't be thinking about. We are
(00:30):
taking questions for the Prime Minister on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. You can text through a question on nine
two ninety two, Prime Minister, Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Good morning Carrie. Good to see you. Even without curling
at the Winter Olympics.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm enjoying our athletes at the gosh, they're lovely, lovely
young people, and they also seem so joyous for each other.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's a really it's a great community as well. Oh okay,
lovely young Helberg's this week and Zowie obviously got announced
as the helberg Sportswoman of the Year. But I watched
Luca Harrington give a post he finished sixth and he
wont a bronze medal, but then finished six in his
second event, and just I mean, what an outstanding, articulate,
thoughtful young man, you know, and every single one of
(01:12):
our athletes has been like that, and very grateful for
their parents and all the support that they've had getting
to where they've got to and to be able to
do what they're doing at such young ages, and just
the joy and just the I just thought, the maturity
and what a great representation of New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Really well, it's hope we can keep them in New
Zealand because looking at the National Infrastructure Plan that came
out yesterday, it was a bit grim. There's a lot
to do.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
There's a lot to do, and we really want to
put sunlight on the issue of infrastructure in New Zealand
because it's one of those things that's bounced around politically
for decades, right and it's personally one of the things
that I think should be outside of politics, because we
should lay up a thirty year plan of what we
think are the priorities and where the money should be
being spend and what the projects actually are. And then
(01:55):
we've got to get much better at actually delivery value,
better value, better value, Like it costs us a lot
to build a road relative to what it costs other
parts of the world. Well why is that? Do we
ever dig into that to find out why?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
That's what I was wondering. How do we like we
go to work and we give you money to spend
on our behalf if yours and I don't mean you,
I mean successive governments have spent it poorly or unwisely,
and we're not getting value for money. Who monitors that?
Who monitors you?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, that's why I want this Infrastructure Commission to play
a much more central role in the development of our
infrastructure in New Zealand. That's actually what happens in New
South Wales, Victoria. It's worked for a number of decades,
much much better when you've had labor governments or liberal
governments of different colors and persuasions. The project lists agreed
and then it's all about how you get maximum value
for that, and then it's a question of how much
(02:46):
money the government can fund to that priority list. But
you're not debating projects if you think about it. You know,
we discussed Auckland light rail for six years, spent three
hundred million dollars with consultants, couldn't agree a route, didn't
build a single meter of rail projects. Now did and
meanwhile in Montreal, you know, they started something a year
later than us, in five years, more complex project and
(03:07):
they've got their people using it. So the point of
that report was really just the start to say, look,
we spend in the top ten percent and OECD on infrastructure,
but we're in the bottom ten percent in terms of
the value that we get for it. Where the fourth
the bottom in the world. On the asset management, we
don't maintain the set.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I mean, we're basically the entire country is a more
point waiting to happen.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well, well, you know, if you just take roads potholes.
We came with sixty four thousand potholes. We're now getting
I think ninety eight percent of potholes responded within twenty
four hours or something. Now we've had a big investment
on that, but that is active renewals and maintenance that
you've got to spend money.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
The hospital's to Hawks Bay Hospital.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Hospital buildings average age. I looked at it when we
first in that second week we came to power. It
was average age of a building in the hospital in
the healthcare system forty two years. So the question is
often in New Zealand, we have this great thing this
number eight, Why are resourcefulness. Let's keep that asset going
and we can fix it and we can make it work.
But at the end of the day, we've got a
manager infrastructure much more professionally. And so the Infrastructure Mission
(04:06):
report as sobering reading as it is, and it is
incredibly sobering, and the challenges are pretty clear. Everyone is
intuitively known. But you've got to have the courage to
build for the future by actually bringing that out into
sunlight and talking about it and having a more strategic
conversation about how we're going to deal.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
With how much responsibility for that lies with voters not
being tempted by the shiny, sparkling things that you guys
wave in front of us.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I think voters are understanding that. You know, as I
said in my State of the Nation speech, anyone who
just comes out and makes promises about spending money, why
have we been in such a difficult time? Massive amount
of wasteful spending, drive up inflation, drive up interest rates,
put their slow the economy down, people start losing their jobs. So,
you know, good financial management really matters, and good thoughtful strategic,
(04:53):
long term thinking really matters. And so it's not sexy
stuff and that it's often a hard place. And I've
said that, you know, we're going to be a government
that's going to have good financial management, and that means
it won't be an election where we come out and
promise you all sorts of things because.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
We have to be mature and now we have to
be mature about that.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
We have to accept that, Hey, listen, look, we have
an awesome country and we have an amazing set of
potential and future ahead of us. But having more strategic
conversations around infrastructure is a really good thing, you know,
and actually think about how we change that. Having a
more strategic conversation about savings and investments for retirement is
a really good thing. Having a more strategic conversation on
things like education and how we build a world class
(05:29):
education good stuff. The planning laws that we're going through
is a big, big change. It's the single biggest thing that.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We're raising the age of retirement.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Aging the age of retirement. They're good debates. I've talked
about all of those things to say we've got to
sophisticate and have a more mature conversation on some of
these longer term challenges. So they represent opportunities to use what.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
They do, but so to both main parties so that
you're not honestly, we are in trouble and we need
you guys to work together and we will be mature
enough to respond. I'm going to take a really quick
call from Craig. Good morning to you.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Hey, good morning, Good morning Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Morning Craig.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Yeah, good mate, thanks very much. A quick question. We
I live in the north and we have road tolls
that run into Northland on the motorways. I'm just wondering
why we have road tolls and good people of Wellington,
good people of white do not. It's a question that
we all ask ourselves up here. And you know this
(06:25):
is this is probably part of the poorest part of
the country and I think it's really important to us.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, no, look, I hear you concern there, Craig. The
reality is, and what we've announced last year is that
we are going to need to toll more roads across
the country. It's going to be a feature going forward
if you want to build the quality roads that we
need and the infrastructure that we're going to need. The
way that you can pull that forward is actually by
you know, doing tolling many of our roads or some
of our roads. So as we go forward, you're going
(06:54):
to need to We are going to need and we've
been very upfront about that. If otherwise you're going to
wait to twenty eighty until you get your four lane
highway from Auckland to Fungerray, right, So yeah, and so,
but that's the same of the White Cute. We've got
massive growth and roading happening there. It's the same in
parts of Lower North Island, ultimately everywhere across the country,
and it is a feature that you see if you
go to Australia, you'll see tolls throughout Victoria, throughout New
(07:17):
South Wales, if you go to other countries throughout Western Europe.
It's quite normal because otherwise what happens is we sit
here in New Zealand and kid ourselves that actually the
government can afford it all on its own finances. And
the bottom line is politicians will come out and promise
you were you know, I've seen lots of designs from
labor last time about harbor crossings. I think there's been
four or five of them. But the reality is we're
going to have to use tolling to actually fund some
(07:38):
of our infrastructure so we can pull.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
It forward on the North Shore. It's going to be
a bit.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I just want to clear up on that nine dollars
because that was their infrastructu Commission basically took the toll
from nineteen sixty and inflation adjusted it to give us
to say, that's what that toll in nineteen sixty represented
that the people of New Zealand and nineteen sixty said
we wanted Harbor Bridge crossing. Yes, we have to pay
with it for a toll. We used to do it
that way and as a result, that's so that is
(08:02):
not that is hypothetical. At the moment, we haven't even
made a decision where we've got a bridge or tunnel.
Then we'll worry about how we fund it. But I
think Craig's raising a fair point, which is, you know,
tolls are randomly applied across New Zealand, and what we've
said it's going to have to be a feature going
forward because it's the only way you can pull forward
the development of those roads and get better quality roads
fast and quicker as actually by recognizing they will need
(08:23):
to be tolling.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And is that better than a targeted fuel tax.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Well, it's better than sitting there promising something that you
know you haven't got a shot of delivering and it's
not funded or backed up.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Aren't Don't you do that with your transport plan?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Well, we've got our rons, we've actually gone through business
cases with them. Yes, there's challenges about how you digest
all of.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
That, but py for it.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You mean, yeah, but you are laying up the projects.
It's important to actually be clear about what is the
infrastructure that you need to do, Like you've got to
decide the priority of it, and you've got to decide
that that is an important road that ultimately that we
have to build and you've got to you know, if
I go to New South Wales, they can have thirty
projects that they're very clear about We're going to do
this one and then we move to that one and
(09:03):
then we move to this one.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
That would be nice.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Well that's what that's what the seventeen roads of National suffocants.
They are our assessment to say they are the most
impactful roads that we can make the biggest upgrades to
over time. And so that they did detailing them. Now
you've got to have a conversation about how you funded.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
All news Talk said be Jason, good morning to you.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Ah, good morning, Good morning Christopher.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
How are you good, Jason? How are you going on
getting on?
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Good?
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Hey, hey, Chris. I spent quite a lot of time
driving around the country, and I'm really happy to pay
a road text. But what I'm not really happy is
for my tax to be spent on all these hundreds
of well firnestly, all these hundreds of these trucks with
all the cones on the back that I drove past
road works the other day and I saw five I
(09:47):
saw sorry, I saw three tracks about seven guys. Yeah,
and the one excavator working it was like one five
ton excavator.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
So the bill for the excavator would have been one
hundred and eighty dollars an hour, and the trucks would
have been three or four thousand dollars an hour. You're
being on the efficiency and building roads in this country.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
We've got to.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Get some international project managers over here to do it better,
because fully agreeable. And the other thing is and the
other thing is, why are we building these wonderful American
style palatial one hundred meters wide between the fences, massive
roads with huge roundabouts. You, no, one can't afford that.
We literally don't have the money.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Yeah, so I think, you.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Know, building five hundred passing lanes all around the country
would be better spent than having a whole lot of
these and having another four kilometers of this billion dollars
a kilometer highways.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, look mate, you touch on two really good points.
The first is on the traffic management side. I think
the previous lot had spent seven hundred and fifty million
dollars or something on road cones. What we discovered was
that there was this endless book of just policy around
how you deploy road cones. We've got rid of all
of that. We've actually said for state highways, which the
government's responsible for, we just expect some pretty loose, some
(11:02):
pretty basic principles. We've actually said then for local road
which councils are responsible for, that actually you've got to
adopt our central sort of approach, which is more guidelines
approach rather than a prescriptive approach. And if you don't,
then we actually won't fund part our share of the
local roads as we go forward from here. So hopefully
the road cod thing has actually been coming down. It
has been coming down. I think we've halved the cost already,
(11:23):
which is good stuff. You raise a very good point
in light of our earlier question from Craig, which is
that the cost of our roads is really unbelievable high.
I'm interested in the cost per kilometer that I see
around the rest of the world versus what we pay
here in New Zealand, and whether it's been classrooms for
school kids, whether it's been Cayangora housing, whether it's been roading.
(11:44):
I think you're dead right. We are paying way too
much and have we got the specification right for what
we need as well? So there is a whole bunch
of work now that we've got this Infrastructure Commission on board,
having these more strategic conversations out there. The biggest thing
you've got to work is not just the how you
fund it, but exactly your point, which is, how do
we know we're getting value for that road and are
(12:04):
we getting it at a really could cost. We've got
a situation at the moment where we want to build
this ultimately this four lane highway between Auckland and fung Ray.
We think that'd be the single biggest thing that will
transform Northland's economy, and we've got three international consortium on
that and they are bidding against each other and bringing
their expertise from overseas into that assignment and project, and
I'll be very interested to see what that looks.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Like while the overseas contractors be able to keep the
price down because we saw what happen with KO.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Well, the ko's a unique problem because it's been not
about overseas. The overseas guys build roads all around the
world and infrastructure all around the world, and we're opening
up New Zealand for the first time to them to
bring your expertise because they actually have tunneling expertise. They
do things in different ways and we've done it historically,
so they're actually quite good and they can teach us
how to do roads at a lower cost and better.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So they're not going to look at the government and think, oh,
it's a government.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Because then we've got a competitive tender and because there's
three international consortium they have to play each other off
and they know what they can shore.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
There were plenty of builders in New Zealand that you
could have done a competitive tender for ANDO houses.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yes, well, then the KO houses has been an absolute debarker.
I mean, you know KO was building houses at twelve
percent of the market rate.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So how did that happen? Because there were competitive tenders.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Again, we don't manage these things well. As a former CEO,
if I had parts of my business running at twelve
percent above them the average, and I was the biggest
guy in town building houses, you just say that that
dog don't hunt. That's not good. So we've changed the CEO,
We've changed the chair, and low and behold. People from
outside the system, like as I'm a motor and others
have come in and they've actually done an exceptionally good job.
(13:37):
Although and they've got the cost per square meter build
coming down very very quickly. The house has been turned
around faster.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
On that though. I had a guys say who has
worked on some of those contracts, that the timeframes are
unrealistic and the finishing is really poor on some of
the houses, which will come back to bite them.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, I'm not sure. I honestly just think there's been
so much poor we have to get better at delivering things, right,
That's what we're really talking about. Whether it's been roads,
I mean, how on earth do you when we came
to power. How on earth does it cost us one
point two million dollars to build a standard kid's classroom
in New Zealand. Well, we've turned out only twenty percent
of the classrooms were built in the standardized Wavery classroom
(14:16):
was different. We got that up to sixty five percent.
We've halved the cost already. It's more to go. So
now we can do twice as many classrooms for the
same amount of money that labor had, you know, because
we're managing it better. So that's what I'm talking about,
is management. Good management and execution really matters.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Ah, there's so much to talk about in so little time. Okay,
now the housing now what's this? Who and why is
Chris Bishop doing a stand up? And have you have
you lost your bottle on housing intensity?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
No? No, what's happened is that basically, we know Auckland's
got to grow, and we know that we also need
affordable housing. So you've got to open up spaces for
houses to get built because that's.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
An important thing and we can't keep going out to buck.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But what's happened is that quite rightly Auckland's have been
saying in the last you know, four three months, three
or four months that. Hey, listen, we don't want to
see our suburbs being intensified with massive buildings beside them.
So what we've done as a gain.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So the flash people in the leafy suburbstown apartments.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Actually it's actually quite reasonable in terms of people are
living in suburban New Auckland and they've then been well anyway,
long story shore is what Chris Wall announce is a
significant reduction in the capacity, which means that then actually
that pressure of intensifying our suburbs in Auckland goes away.
And what we want to see is intensification happening in
the right places. So let me tell you where the
(15:29):
flesh people are. No, no, no, in the CBD over
the transport hubs. If you think about it, we've just
spent five billion dollars on the CURL network in Auckland CBD.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I lived in Sydney in the nineties. I was there
for five years. I went to a place called Saint
Leonard's at a train station. They upgraded it, then they
put in apartments, then they put in restaurants, and they
put in shops and actually that became a really cool,
vibrant part of the city. Of Sydney to live in, right,
and that's what Auckland is going to need to do.
Over the CBD, the transport hubs, the town centers, we
should be densifying and putting more.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Into density occur.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
So it should occur in the CBD, in the town
centers and the transport hubs that we've got across the
cross Auckland, but not in the suburbs. And so what
we're doing is we're taking the capacity requirement down significantly.
That'll take the pressure off the suburbs that the intensification
should happen more in the CBD and the central city
areas and over those transport hubs, and we build intensification
(16:22):
in the right places, not indiscriminately across the suburbs. So
now the government's owner's but you know what that makes
to the council. No, no, no, it's actually no, it's
actually part of it Auckland City that's growing. And if
you think about cities that have similar size, like Brisbane
or you know what Sydney was in the nineties, it's
quite natural that you want to see intensification, but you
don't go do it in your suburbs. You do it
in the places where people can get to and fro
(16:44):
from work over transport hubs in the central city.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So Kingsland is still going to be intensively.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Well, I can't speak to specific suburbs because that's a
council decision.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
It's a transport hub.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, but it's close to the city, sure, But where
there are transport hubs that you know, Pam, you will
be a classic, right, that is going to be a
major transport hub for East Auckland to connect into the CBD.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It's not where you're wealthy donors and voters are.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
No, But it's not about that. It's actually about no.
You think about it. If you're living out in Packernger,
you know, and all of a sudden you've got a
proposal that your house beside you is being knocked down
and upcomes a massive intensification of a multi story building
with multiple apartments. That's not where it needs to be.
It needs to be, you know, where near a transport
hub you've got to be able to go.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
We've had that happen with Pocono and Clark's speech. I mean,
look at those huge housing developments and there's no public transport.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Well that's the second problem, right, which is that you've
got to say we can densify in the CBD and
over the transport hubs, and you've also got to open
up green space. And that's in order for a city
to grow. But when you open it up, you do
it in a proper way, which is why we're signaling
you've got to have a thirty year view about where
you want the growth to be, because otherwise it happens
in an ad hoc way. And then we don't have
the schools in the right places, and we don't have
(17:52):
the hospitals in the right places. We haven't done the
planning properly because we just whacked a suburban to what
was previously farmland and haven't thought it through.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
So in the past, any old farmer could any lovely
old farmer, after a lifetime of hard working propping up
this economy could sell off.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Us land gets rezoned as a residential.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Houses go up with no parking, no correct, no water,
no public transport.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yep, yep. It just happens in an ad hoc kind
of fashion. So that's why you've got to run a country. No,
And that's why I'm saying to you the earlier conversation
we had about being strategic is you've got to say,
over the next thirty years, yep, Auckland City's going to grow.
So where do you want that growth roughly to be.
And we're saying we want that to be in transport hubs.
And yes, there need to be some green fields opening
up of some spaces as there has been in the past,
(18:36):
but we're going to need do that in a more
sensitive way. Okay, if you look at Drury, for example,
that's probably going to be one hundred and fifty thousand
people living down there. It's almost a new city. Well
you've got to think about the schools, the hospitals, all
of that as those subdivisions get built out down there.
We don't want that just happening with sprawl that then
you don't end up with the services and people are
frustrated about that, all right, So it's good news. So
(18:56):
it just means the intensification in the subjects.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Go to wester Sun back to Kerry would have been
the text machine, get a bloody room, you two two corners.
So far it's not all about you, Carrie. Well it
actually it's called Kerry. What the mornings it actually is.
So I'm trying I've got questions too, Jason say, look
cooler morning, Jason.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Good morning, Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
I'll try and frame this as a question, but it
probably doubles up as a plea. I like, fortunately most
of the voter's last election cycle realize that you were
the government we needed at that time, and I still
believe that a center right led government is what the
country still needs now. However, one thing that really grinds
(19:42):
our gears is and I'm not your campaign manager, I
don't profess to you're smarter guy than I am, but
less of the blaming the other lot. We're all smart
enough as a voter, your voter base to realize much
of the pickle we're in now that you're you're doing
a sterling job of getting us out of is to
do with class administration. There's no question of that. We're
(20:05):
all smart enough to work that out. So I guess
my question for you is do you think it would
be a smart employ this time round? And I know
you'll be embarking on a period of leader's debates and
talking non radio like this that we use less of that,
and one minister you have that does that exemplary well
as minister, are you education Minister, I don't think I've
heard a reference the other lot and all the great
(20:27):
things she's doing, and that just shows a strength.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
So yeah, no, look I fair comments. My question to you, no,
no fair comment, honestly, really fair comments. I guess the
reality that what we've tried to do is say, what's
the problem we've inherited, what's a common sense solution, and
then what's the results we're looking to see, and then
we want people to feel it. So when we reference
the past, it's just saying that's the starting point and
the context for the turnaround, that we need to know
(20:50):
what the facts are. So on education, yep, half the
kids went going to school, eighty percent went where they
need to be a mass, fifty percent where they may
be on reading. That then lead to Eric and I
putting the common sense planned together to get structured literacy, structure,
numeracy ncaa replacement away. But look, I mean that is
the thing. We're trying to fix the basics and we're
trying to build out the things for the future that
set the country up for great success. But now I
hear what you're saying. It's just generally done from as
(21:12):
a turnaround guy, what's the problem that you're trying to
deal with, and then common sense plan going forward. So
it's context more so than just wanting to beat up
the opposition per se, because actually we want to talk
about our plans and what we're trying to do, which
is common sense stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
He does have a good point, though, fair point, yep, John,
good morning to you.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
Good morning and John taking my call and thank you
to the Prime Minister, but also taking my call. I'm
self employed, I'm optimistic about the future. But my question
is around how do you as a PM navigate the
(21:50):
negative comments while providing hope and taking people with you
all of the same same time when the government itself
has made up of parties with the reviews of how
to reach utopia?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Well, listen, I appreciate are you empathizing with me understanding
what it looks like in my shoes from day to day.
But look, a couple of thoughts for you. One is,
you know, I choose to do this job. I could
do lots of things, but I choose to do it
because I love the country and I want it to
realize it's potential. So you've got to get connected to
that's the mission and purpose. And if I read everything
that was written about me at four thirty in the
morning when I wake up, I wouldn't want to get
(22:23):
out of bed. So and I've also just learned to
be informed by social media but not consumed by it.
And I've also had a view very strongly from the
get go, which is, look, people, I don't take advice from,
I won't take offense from either. So those are things
that personally I do to navigate some of the heavy
criticism that you get. Obviously that comes with this job.
But honestly, it's a tremendous privilege and I'm very deuced
and very excited about the potential that s. It's an
(22:44):
out awesome country and we are going to build a
kick ass country for our kids, now grand kids. Period.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
All very well and good taking criticism from random trolls
on the internet. What about when the criticism comes from
your coalition partner, what do you do with the problem,
Like Winston.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
You mean like I'm an engine FDA for example, or
something like that. Yeah, I mean he knows exactly what
he's doing. Well, we are in an MMP system. New
Zealanders have chosen it. As I've said many times, before
they vote election night, we make the case for why
we want a national lead government and why they should
vote for US, and so we can form as stronger
government as we can. MMP means you're going to have
to form coalitions. That's the reality of Western Europe. It's
(23:23):
what's happening in New Zealand, and they have different policies,
different constituents and different views on something like the FTA.
You know, Winston opposed the China FDA back in two
thousand and eight. He was wrong, with all respect, he's
wrong on this. India is a one point five million
people country, it's the third biggest, going to be the
third biggest economy, it's fastest growing economy.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
About the immigrants, yeah, and then.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
The immigrants thing is all untrue. I mean, you know,
we have got really smart immigration policy and in fact,
something I'm proud about in the last two years is
we've tightened up a lot of our settings because.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
This will open it wide open.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
According to Winston, no, I disagree, he's completely wrong. He's
a lawyer. But the point is that if you look
at the US and the UK, they have massive amounts
of illegal immigration. They have thousands or hundreds of people
coming into their country illegally each and every day, so
it's a big issue there. But New Zealand's been different.
We have had we have had rights and responsibilities and
we've been very clear about immigration only coming in where
(24:19):
it supports the shortages we have in our economy.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So what protections are there in the FTA that we
won't be swamped?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
So for example, the student the temporary visa that comes
in for a three year period, they have to go home,
They can't bring in their families and friends, you know,
to work and live and all that stuff. And you
know there's real restrictions around that. Erica Stamford is the
Minister of Immigration's got so that really tightly controlled. The
working holiday visa is no different from forty five other
arrangements we have across the across the across the world
(24:45):
with other countries, and the student visa is exactly what
we do with other students and we are completely as
a government. It's up to us to determine the settings
and applications of who does and doesn't get get to
come into the country. So all of that is completely
untrue and it's a normal feature of these arrangements. It's similar.
We've had similar before, and it's I'm proud of our
(25:06):
immigration policy because it's a major issue around the countries
all around the world. You see it with Ferrags, you
see it with Trump, you see it with Pauline Hanson.
In Australia, we have a smart immigration policy. We've tightened
up the settings. We want people to be here, but
we want it linked to our economic agenda and our infrastructure.
I spoke about it earlier in the year and past
governments have done this, which is you can just open
up the taps for immigration and crank up house prices
(25:27):
and get the economy growing that way, but it's not
quality growth. You're not doing it the right way. So
the hardest thing is to make sure that we've got
good settings around it there tight and the link very
strongly to our agendas.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
We got short So Winston's just being Winston in an election. Ye.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Well, he's entitled to talk to his constituents whoever he
thinks they are. But I just you know, I just
say to you, you know, this is a country that's
benefited from immigration, but it's been smartly done. It's tightly managed,
and it's linked to our shortages that we have in
our economy. When we're short welders and we need those
people we need to let we have a green list
and it goes up and down, and it fluctuates, and
(26:01):
we change it a lot as to what we need
at what certain times. We're running smart immigration policies and
not like other countries.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Would you like to ask the voters very nicely to
vote for you so you don't have to deal with
Winston Peters next time?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Well, I'll make the case as every political party wilt
why we want them to party vote National over any
other party. But that's up to the voters. And the
great thing is we have a democracy and we shouldn't
take it for granted. And New Zealanders we'll all get
what we deserve. So we deserve the very best and
that's up to key weis to make their judgments about.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
That news talk said b es See, this is what
happens when we talk about the fta. Well, why have
we got so many Indians cleaning cars and driving buses.
We don't need to bring in immigrants to sell alcohol,
wash carsmo lawns, paint houses. Is one of the critical industries.
We're sort of labor and including uber drivers too many
uber drivers' hospitality and gear workers. And they're our parents.
(26:51):
As Helen said when this came out, if we had
an FTA with Sweden, I bet there wouldn't be this
kind of kickback.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Well, all I'd say is the visas that we're opening
up under the FTA, eighty percent of them are tied
to the green list, and that is the shortages that
we have across the country twenty percent of specialist locations
about eight hundred places as I think, But you know,
that's very much what we're doing. And so we have
been short bus drivers. We actually have been short truck drivers.
We have been short mechanics, we've been short welders over
the last you know, three or four years. And it
(27:17):
does fluctuate, and we make those changes very dynamically. But
you know, we are not in a situation like I've observed.
Even Australia and Canada they had very lacks immigration settings
and that out they've had to tighten those up. We've
been smart.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
As we have had in the past.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Well, yes, and that's what I've made the point before
is that you know, you look at our immigration that's
come into the country over recent years, you know, compared
to what you've seen in Australia, Canada and certainly what
you've seen within a different set of problems around illegal
immigration that you know Farage and Trump have talked about
in those countries. So you know, we are a country
that we should be very proud of the immigrants that
have come in. They work incredibly hard. They take one, two,
(27:55):
three jobs to get a deposit for a house and
for a business. They are a great role model, I
think to some New Zealanders to actually observe hard work
and aspiration and ambition. But equally we manage it tightly
because we link it to the economy and when we don't,
that's when you lose the socialize feration.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, what about our dependence on the primary sector. Thank
God for them, you know, thank God for them. But
that is that is a vulnerable sector. It's vulnerable to
whether it's vulnerable to taste, to overseas demand. How do
we spread not put all our quite literally kiwi fruit
(28:30):
into one basket.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Well, I'm actually quite proud that we're actually seeing growth
across all of our sectors. So it's services as well.
A lot of technology growth, a lot of startups growth
that's happening.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Isn't that exciting?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
It's really exciting. I was at an event on the
weekend around sale GP. We've had four billion dollars come
in for people who want to invest five or ten
million dollars in startup companies essentially in New Zealand. That's
enabled those companies to grow, open up new markets and
high people. That's what we want to see. That's smart,
that's really smart.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
How gaming industry is.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Video gaming is going really well. Tourism is bouncing back
really strongly, just on primary industries. You know, isn't it interesting?
You know we use you know, people would call farmers villains.
You know, they are deeply valued. But we're in a
place now where dairy is under huge I demand around
the world, red meat and sheep meat, protein is in
real demand because the herds have been shrinking around the world,
and we've refused to let our herd shrink. And you've
(29:19):
seen me talk about what I've done on agricultural pricing in.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
A once they have shrink from what they used to.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Be sure, but relative to other countries, we have more
of what the world needs and even horticulture and now
walls at are ten year high, and so actually the
outlook for the next few years is very positive because
the world demand is greater than the supply. And what
we're doing as a country or as a government, and
I've Todd mclan I've been doing over the last two years,
We've hit the planes hard because i want those processes
to be able to say I'm going to sell product
(29:45):
in America or China or India or the Middle East
or UK or Europe, and I'm going to move my
product to where the greatest margin and best prices are
so I can get those moneies back into New Zealand
and those profits back into New Zealand so that I
can actually hire more people, expand my business continue to grow.
So we shouldn't beat up on farmers ever. They have
deeply valued and they are innovative, and they keep getting
more reductive, and we're the most carbon efficient farmers in
(30:08):
the world. So it's stupid to shut that all down
and move it all offshore as was proposed of previously.
I'm trying not to criticize the last government based off
the feedback I did, but it was insane, but so
I'm really proud of it. So I think you know
you're seeing growth and manufacturing, you've see growth and services.
Auckland when you and I spoke last year was a problem.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
We don't have a constant yet supply of affordable energy
and then that LPG and we're running out of time.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Well, y can I say on energy? We have a
massive renewables boom going on in this country. In fact,
in the September quarter we had the lowest emissions we've
had since twenty ten. And that's because there's a hell
of a lot of solar, geothermal wind being built across
the country. Local people doing it, international people wanted to
do it. But we also have this dry year risk
and we need we need we need a backup on coal.
(30:56):
We need a big backup on gas. And that's what
that's about. And by doing that, you're lowering prices fifty
dollars per household. By doing that LNG facility.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
You've got a minute to tell middle income earners who
are doing their best, doing their best by their families,
doing their best by the country, who aren't feeling it,
who've had a tough time. One of them may have
been made redundant it's they're not they're not feeling optimistic.
What do you say to them.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Well, I acknowledge it's been very difficult the last few years.
We've dealt with COVID, We've dealt with inflation, we've dealt
with you know, technical dislocation in some cases and some sectors,
some jobs. But I want them to know that this
is a government that understands the economy and we're doing
the right things for the long term. We've had to
fix a lot of basics and we'll continue to do that,
but we are building out the things that create the
(31:44):
potential and the growth that we want to see in
this country. Whether it's the planning system, it's not sexy stuff,
but it's important stuff. The stuff we talked about on
infrastructure and this call education reform. We've got to step
up our savings and investment for retirement, all those kinds
of big issues and challenges, but also massive opportunities. So
I know it's still tough for some people, but we
are saying, you know, we've had a big turn around
(32:06):
the recessions. You know, now we're in recovery mode. We
want to see more growth coming through, and we want
to see people feeling that over the course of this year,
and that's what our real hope is. And our plan is.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Oh lordy, lordie. That goes quickly, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Doesn't it go quick?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I wish we had more time because there's a lot
of things. I actually really love this format because you
get to talk more than three to six seconds on
the one o'clock on the six clock news. It's good
explain some things.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Oh my goodness, I know. And New Zealanders get it well,
they do kind of get it. Is this a party
political broadcast or a chance for talkback called is to
ask questions of the Privateis we need to phone? Did
you phone anonymous text? Did you? I don't think you did.
You were waiting for other people to do that. Yeah,
I'm lucky to have our prima minister.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
You're going to appeal to at least half the half
the audience.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
As I said to Mum, half the people. Don't read
the comments, please don't. It was lovely. I did my
first Facebook post when I came into politics, you know,
four or five years ago, and Mum said, oh, I
just read that. That wasn't a very good article, was it?
And I said, Oh mum, what do you mean it
was okay? And she said, no, no, I read all the comments.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't please don't do that.
They won't like your little boy, half of them all
and half of them won't.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
No, that's right. But you're just steady as she goes
and doing the boring stuff and doing it well.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Well.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
It's just like we have an awesome country. I know
it's been tough and difficult times, but I am so
excited about the future of this place. Yes, we are
fixing a lot of basics and we have to sort
a lot of basic stuff out and get it run
better and get improvement from that, but we're also in
a place of building out the future and that's pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Were were going to go and you're leaving. Your choice
today for the song is Olivia Dean and.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
She is awesome. She's amazing.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
The song is nice to each other. Yep, not the
man I need. You could for your song to the voters.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
That could have made but I thought this was more appropriate.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Have a great afternoon from it.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Thank you, Kerry.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerry Wood of Mornings podcast from
News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be welcome to the first of our our long
catch ups with the Prime Minister. Christopher Leuxen. Election twenty
twenty six is on November seven, two hundred and sixty
one days. To be precise, is the current government doing
enough for you to give them a second term? Possibly not,
but the alternative probably doesn't be thinking about. We are
(00:30):
taking questions for the Prime Minister on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. You can text through a question on nine
two ninety two, Prime Minister, Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Good morning Carrie. Good to see you. Even without curling
at the Winter Olympics.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm enjoying our athletes at the gosh, they're lovely, lovely
young people, and they also seem so joyous for each other.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's a really it's a great community as well. Oh okay,
lovely young Helberg's this week and Zowie obviously got announced
as the helberg Sportswoman of the Year. But I watched
Luca Harrington give a post he finished sixth and he
wont a bronze medal, but then finished six in his
second event, and just I mean, what an outstanding, articulate,
thoughtful young man, you know, and every single one of
(01:12):
our athletes has been like that, and very grateful for
their parents and all the support that they've had getting
to where they've got to and to be able to
do what they're doing at such young ages, and just
the joy and just the I just thought, the maturity
and what a great representation of New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Really well, it's hope we can keep them in New
Zealand because looking at the National Infrastructure Plan that came
out yesterday, it was a bit grim. There's a lot
to do.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
There's a lot to do, and we really want to
put sunlight on the issue of infrastructure in New Zealand
because it's one of those things that's bounced around politically
for decades, right and it's personally one of the things
that I think should be outside of politics, because we
should lay up a thirty year plan of what we
think are the priorities and where the money should be
being spend and what the projects actually are. And then
(01:55):
we've got to get much better at actually delivery value,
better value, better value, Like it costs us a lot
to build a road relative to what it costs other
parts of the world. Well why is that? Do we
ever dig into that to find out why?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
That's what I was wondering. How do we like we
go to work and we give you money to spend
on our behalf if yours and I don't mean you,
I mean successive governments have spent it poorly or unwisely,
and we're not getting value for money. Who monitors that?
Who monitors you?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, that's why I want this Infrastructure Commission to play
a much more central role in the development of our
infrastructure in New Zealand. That's actually what happens in New
South Wales, Victoria. It's worked for a number of decades,
much much better when you've had labor governments or liberal
governments of different colors and persuasions. The project lists agreed
and then it's all about how you get maximum value
for that, and then it's a question of how much
(02:46):
money the government can fund to that priority list. But
you're not debating projects if you think about it. You know,
we discussed Auckland light rail for six years, spent three
hundred million dollars with consultants, couldn't agree a route, didn't
build a single meter of rail projects. Now did and
meanwhile in Montreal, you know, they started something a year
later than us, in five years, more complex project and
(03:07):
they've got their people using it. So the point of
that report was really just the start to say, look,
we spend in the top ten percent and OECD on infrastructure,
but we're in the bottom ten percent in terms of
the value that we get for it. Where the fourth
the bottom in the world. On the asset management, we
don't maintain the set.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I mean, we're basically the entire country is a more
point waiting to happen.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well, well, you know, if you just take roads potholes.
We came with sixty four thousand potholes. We're now getting
I think ninety eight percent of potholes responded within twenty
four hours or something. Now we've had a big investment
on that, but that is active renewals and maintenance that
you've got to spend money.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
The hospital's to Hawks Bay Hospital.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Hospital buildings average age. I looked at it when we
first in that second week we came to power. It
was average age of a building in the hospital in
the healthcare system forty two years. So the question is
often in New Zealand, we have this great thing this
number eight, Why are resourcefulness. Let's keep that asset going
and we can fix it and we can make it work.
But at the end of the day, we've got a
manager infrastructure much more professionally. And so the Infrastructure Mission
(04:06):
report as sobering reading as it is, and it is
incredibly sobering, and the challenges are pretty clear. Everyone is
intuitively known. But you've got to have the courage to
build for the future by actually bringing that out into
sunlight and talking about it and having a more strategic
conversation about how we're going to deal.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
With how much responsibility for that lies with voters not
being tempted by the shiny, sparkling things that you guys
wave in front of us.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I think voters are understanding that. You know, as I
said in my State of the Nation speech, anyone who
just comes out and makes promises about spending money, why
have we been in such a difficult time? Massive amount
of wasteful spending, drive up inflation, drive up interest rates,
put their slow the economy down, people start losing their jobs. So,
you know, good financial management really matters, and good thoughtful strategic,
(04:53):
long term thinking really matters. And so it's not sexy
stuff and that it's often a hard place. And I've
said that, you know, we're going to be a government
that's going to have good financial management, and that means
it won't be an election where we come out and
promise you all sorts of things because.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
We have to be mature and now we have to
be mature about that.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
We have to accept that, Hey, listen, look, we have
an awesome country and we have an amazing set of
potential and future ahead of us. But having more strategic
conversations around infrastructure is a really good thing, you know,
and actually think about how we change that. Having a
more strategic conversation about savings and investments for retirement is
a really good thing. Having a more strategic conversation on
things like education and how we build a world class
(05:29):
education good stuff. The planning laws that we're going through
is a big, big change. It's the single biggest thing that.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We're raising the age of retirement.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Aging the age of retirement. They're good debates. I've talked
about all of those things to say we've got to
sophisticate and have a more mature conversation on some of
these longer term challenges. So they represent opportunities to use what.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
They do, but so to both main parties so that
you're not honestly, we are in trouble and we need
you guys to work together and we will be mature
enough to respond. I'm going to take a really quick
call from Craig. Good morning to you.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Hey, good morning, Good morning Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Morning Craig.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Yeah, good mate, thanks very much. A quick question. We
I live in the north and we have road tolls
that run into Northland on the motorways. I'm just wondering
why we have road tolls and good people of Wellington,
good people of white do not. It's a question that
we all ask ourselves up here. And you know this
(06:25):
is this is probably part of the poorest part of
the country and I think it's really important to us.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, no, look, I hear you concern there, Craig. The
reality is, and what we've announced last year is that
we are going to need to toll more roads across
the country. It's going to be a feature going forward
if you want to build the quality roads that we
need and the infrastructure that we're going to need. The
way that you can pull that forward is actually by
you know, doing tolling many of our roads or some
of our roads. So as we go forward, you're going
(06:54):
to need to We are going to need and we've
been very upfront about that. If otherwise you're going to
wait to twenty eighty until you get your four lane
highway from Auckland to Fungerray, right, So yeah, and so,
but that's the same of the White Cute. We've got
massive growth and roading happening there. It's the same in
parts of Lower North Island, ultimately everywhere across the country,
and it is a feature that you see if you
go to Australia, you'll see tolls throughout Victoria, throughout New
(07:17):
South Wales, if you go to other countries throughout Western Europe.
It's quite normal because otherwise what happens is we sit
here in New Zealand and kid ourselves that actually the
government can afford it all on its own finances. And
the bottom line is politicians will come out and promise
you were you know, I've seen lots of designs from
labor last time about harbor crossings. I think there's been
four or five of them. But the reality is we're
going to have to use tolling to actually fund some
(07:38):
of our infrastructure so we can pull.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
It forward on the North Shore. It's going to be
a bit.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I just want to clear up on that nine dollars
because that was their infrastructu Commission basically took the toll
from nineteen sixty and inflation adjusted it to give us
to say, that's what that toll in nineteen sixty represented
that the people of New Zealand and nineteen sixty said
we wanted Harbor Bridge crossing. Yes, we have to pay
with it for a toll. We used to do it
that way and as a result, that's so that is
(08:02):
not that is hypothetical. At the moment, we haven't even
made a decision where we've got a bridge or tunnel.
Then we'll worry about how we fund it. But I
think Craig's raising a fair point, which is, you know,
tolls are randomly applied across New Zealand, and what we've
said it's going to have to be a feature going
forward because it's the only way you can pull forward
the development of those roads and get better quality roads
fast and quicker as actually by recognizing they will need
(08:23):
to be tolling.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And is that better than a targeted fuel tax.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Well, it's better than sitting there promising something that you
know you haven't got a shot of delivering and it's
not funded or backed up.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Aren't Don't you do that with your transport plan?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Well, we've got our rons, we've actually gone through business
cases with them. Yes, there's challenges about how you digest
all of.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
That, but py for it.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You mean, yeah, but you are laying up the projects.
It's important to actually be clear about what is the
infrastructure that you need to do, Like you've got to
decide the priority of it, and you've got to decide
that that is an important road that ultimately that we
have to build and you've got to you know, if
I go to New South Wales, they can have thirty
projects that they're very clear about We're going to do
this one and then we move to that one and
(09:03):
then we move to this one.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
That would be nice.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Well that's what that's what the seventeen roads of National suffocants.
They are our assessment to say they are the most
impactful roads that we can make the biggest upgrades to
over time. And so that they did detailing them. Now
you've got to have a conversation about how you funded.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
All news Talk said be Jason, good morning to you.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Ah, good morning, Good morning Christopher.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
How are you good, Jason? How are you going on
getting on?
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Good?
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Hey, hey, Chris. I spent quite a lot of time
driving around the country, and I'm really happy to pay
a road text. But what I'm not really happy is
for my tax to be spent on all these hundreds
of well firnestly, all these hundreds of these trucks with
all the cones on the back that I drove past
road works the other day and I saw five I
(09:47):
saw sorry, I saw three tracks about seven guys. Yeah,
and the one excavator working it was like one five
ton excavator.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
So the bill for the excavator would have been one
hundred and eighty dollars an hour, and the trucks would
have been three or four thousand dollars an hour. You're
being on the efficiency and building roads in this country.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
We've got to.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Get some international project managers over here to do it better,
because fully agreeable. And the other thing is and the
other thing is, why are we building these wonderful American
style palatial one hundred meters wide between the fences, massive
roads with huge roundabouts. You, no, one can't afford that.
We literally don't have the money.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Yeah, so I think, you.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Know, building five hundred passing lanes all around the country
would be better spent than having a whole lot of
these and having another four kilometers of this billion dollars
a kilometer highways.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, look mate, you touch on two really good points.
The first is on the traffic management side. I think
the previous lot had spent seven hundred and fifty million
dollars or something on road cones. What we discovered was
that there was this endless book of just policy around
how you deploy road cones. We've got rid of all
of that. We've actually said for state highways, which the
government's responsible for, we just expect some pretty loose, some
(11:02):
pretty basic principles. We've actually said then for local road
which councils are responsible for, that actually you've got to
adopt our central sort of approach, which is more guidelines
approach rather than a prescriptive approach. And if you don't,
then we actually won't fund part our share of the
local roads as we go forward from here. So hopefully
the road cod thing has actually been coming down. It
has been coming down. I think we've halved the cost already,
(11:23):
which is good stuff. You raise a very good point
in light of our earlier question from Craig, which is
that the cost of our roads is really unbelievable high.
I'm interested in the cost per kilometer that I see
around the rest of the world versus what we pay
here in New Zealand, and whether it's been classrooms for
school kids, whether it's been Cayangora housing, whether it's been roading.
(11:44):
I think you're dead right. We are paying way too
much and have we got the specification right for what
we need as well? So there is a whole bunch
of work now that we've got this Infrastructure Commission on board,
having these more strategic conversations out there. The biggest thing
you've got to work is not just the how you
fund it, but exactly your point, which is, how do
we know we're getting value for that road and are
(12:04):
we getting it at a really could cost. We've got
a situation at the moment where we want to build
this ultimately this four lane highway between Auckland and fung Ray.
We think that'd be the single biggest thing that will
transform Northland's economy, and we've got three international consortium on
that and they are bidding against each other and bringing
their expertise from overseas into that assignment and project, and
I'll be very interested to see what that looks.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Like while the overseas contractors be able to keep the
price down because we saw what happen with KO.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Well, the ko's a unique problem because it's been not
about overseas. The overseas guys build roads all around the
world and infrastructure all around the world, and we're opening
up New Zealand for the first time to them to
bring your expertise because they actually have tunneling expertise. They
do things in different ways and we've done it historically,
so they're actually quite good and they can teach us
how to do roads at a lower cost and better.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So they're not going to look at the government and think, oh,
it's a government.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Because then we've got a competitive tender and because there's
three international consortium they have to play each other off
and they know what they can shore.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
There were plenty of builders in New Zealand that you
could have done a competitive tender for ANDO houses.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yes, well, then the KO houses has been an absolute debarker.
I mean, you know KO was building houses at twelve
percent of the market rate.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So how did that happen? Because there were competitive tenders.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Again, we don't manage these things well. As a former CEO,
if I had parts of my business running at twelve
percent above them the average, and I was the biggest
guy in town building houses, you just say that that
dog don't hunt. That's not good. So we've changed the CEO,
We've changed the chair, and low and behold. People from
outside the system, like as I'm a motor and others
have come in and they've actually done an exceptionally good job.
(13:37):
Although and they've got the cost per square meter build
coming down very very quickly. The house has been turned
around faster.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
On that though. I had a guys say who has
worked on some of those contracts, that the timeframes are
unrealistic and the finishing is really poor on some of
the houses, which will come back to bite them.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, I'm not sure. I honestly just think there's been
so much poor we have to get better at delivering things, right,
That's what we're really talking about. Whether it's been roads,
I mean, how on earth do you when we came
to power. How on earth does it cost us one
point two million dollars to build a standard kid's classroom
in New Zealand. Well, we've turned out only twenty percent
of the classrooms were built in the standardized Wavery classroom
(14:16):
was different. We got that up to sixty five percent.
We've halved the cost already. It's more to go. So
now we can do twice as many classrooms for the
same amount of money that labor had, you know, because
we're managing it better. So that's what I'm talking about,
is management. Good management and execution really matters.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Ah, there's so much to talk about in so little time. Okay,
now the housing now what's this? Who and why is
Chris Bishop doing a stand up? And have you have
you lost your bottle on housing intensity?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
No? No, what's happened is that basically, we know Auckland's
got to grow, and we know that we also need
affordable housing. So you've got to open up spaces for
houses to get built because that's.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
An important thing and we can't keep going out to buck.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But what's happened is that quite rightly Auckland's have been
saying in the last you know, four three months, three
or four months that. Hey, listen, we don't want to
see our suburbs being intensified with massive buildings beside them.
So what we've done as a gain.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So the flash people in the leafy suburbstown apartments.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Actually it's actually quite reasonable in terms of people are
living in suburban New Auckland and they've then been well anyway,
long story shore is what Chris Wall announce is a
significant reduction in the capacity, which means that then actually
that pressure of intensifying our suburbs in Auckland goes away.
And what we want to see is intensification happening in
the right places. So let me tell you where the
(15:29):
flesh people are. No, no, no, in the CBD over
the transport hubs. If you think about it, we've just
spent five billion dollars on the CURL network in Auckland CBD.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I lived in Sydney in the nineties. I was there
for five years. I went to a place called Saint
Leonard's at a train station. They upgraded it, then they
put in apartments, then they put in restaurants, and they
put in shops and actually that became a really cool,
vibrant part of the city. Of Sydney to live in, right,
and that's what Auckland is going to need to do.
Over the CBD, the transport hubs, the town centers, we
should be densifying and putting more.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Into density occur.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
So it should occur in the CBD, in the town
centers and the transport hubs that we've got across the
cross Auckland, but not in the suburbs. And so what
we're doing is we're taking the capacity requirement down significantly.
That'll take the pressure off the suburbs that the intensification
should happen more in the CBD and the central city
areas and over those transport hubs, and we build intensification
(16:22):
in the right places, not indiscriminately across the suburbs. So
now the government's owner's but you know what that makes
to the council. No, no, no, it's actually no, it's
actually part of it Auckland City that's growing. And if
you think about cities that have similar size, like Brisbane
or you know what Sydney was in the nineties, it's
quite natural that you want to see intensification, but you
don't go do it in your suburbs. You do it
in the places where people can get to and fro
(16:44):
from work over transport hubs in the central city.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So Kingsland is still going to be intensively.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Well, I can't speak to specific suburbs because that's a
council decision.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
It's a transport hub.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, but it's close to the city, sure, But where
there are transport hubs that you know, Pam, you will
be a classic, right, that is going to be a
major transport hub for East Auckland to connect into the CBD.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It's not where you're wealthy donors and voters are.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
No, But it's not about that. It's actually about no.
You think about it. If you're living out in Packernger,
you know, and all of a sudden you've got a
proposal that your house beside you is being knocked down
and upcomes a massive intensification of a multi story building
with multiple apartments. That's not where it needs to be.
It needs to be, you know, where near a transport
hub you've got to be able to go.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
We've had that happen with Pocono and Clark's speech. I mean,
look at those huge housing developments and there's no public transport.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Well that's the second problem, right, which is that you've
got to say we can densify in the CBD and
over the transport hubs, and you've also got to open
up green space. And that's in order for a city
to grow. But when you open it up, you do
it in a proper way, which is why we're signaling
you've got to have a thirty year view about where
you want the growth to be, because otherwise it happens
in an ad hoc way. And then we don't have
the schools in the right places, and we don't have
(17:52):
the hospitals in the right places. We haven't done the
planning properly because we just whacked a suburban to what
was previously farmland and haven't thought it through.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
So in the past, any old farmer could any lovely
old farmer, after a lifetime of hard working propping up
this economy could sell off.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Us land gets rezoned as a residential.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Houses go up with no parking, no correct, no water,
no public transport.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yep, yep. It just happens in an ad hoc kind
of fashion. So that's why you've got to run a country. No,
And that's why I'm saying to you the earlier conversation
we had about being strategic is you've got to say,
over the next thirty years, yep, Auckland City's going to grow.
So where do you want that growth roughly to be.
And we're saying we want that to be in transport hubs.
And yes, there need to be some green fields opening
up of some spaces as there has been in the past,
(18:36):
but we're going to need do that in a more
sensitive way. Okay, if you look at Drury, for example,
that's probably going to be one hundred and fifty thousand
people living down there. It's almost a new city. Well
you've got to think about the schools, the hospitals, all
of that as those subdivisions get built out down there.
We don't want that just happening with sprawl that then
you don't end up with the services and people are
frustrated about that, all right, So it's good news. So
(18:56):
it just means the intensification in the subjects.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Go to wester Sun back to Kerry would have been
the text machine, get a bloody room, you two two corners.
So far it's not all about you, Carrie. Well it
actually it's called Kerry. What the mornings it actually is.
So I'm trying I've got questions too, Jason say, look
cooler morning, Jason.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Good morning, Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
I'll try and frame this as a question, but it
probably doubles up as a plea. I like, fortunately most
of the voter's last election cycle realize that you were
the government we needed at that time, and I still
believe that a center right led government is what the
country still needs now. However, one thing that really grinds
(19:42):
our gears is and I'm not your campaign manager, I
don't profess to you're smarter guy than I am, but
less of the blaming the other lot. We're all smart
enough as a voter, your voter base to realize much
of the pickle we're in now that you're you're doing
a sterling job of getting us out of is to
do with class administration. There's no question of that. We're
(20:05):
all smart enough to work that out. So I guess
my question for you is do you think it would
be a smart employ this time round? And I know
you'll be embarking on a period of leader's debates and
talking non radio like this that we use less of that,
and one minister you have that does that exemplary well
as minister, are you education Minister, I don't think I've
heard a reference the other lot and all the great
(20:27):
things she's doing, and that just shows a strength.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
So yeah, no, look I fair comments. My question to you, no,
no fair comment, honestly, really fair comments. I guess the
reality that what we've tried to do is say, what's
the problem we've inherited, what's a common sense solution, and
then what's the results we're looking to see, and then
we want people to feel it. So when we reference
the past, it's just saying that's the starting point and
the context for the turnaround, that we need to know
(20:50):
what the facts are. So on education, yep, half the
kids went going to school, eighty percent went where they
need to be a mass, fifty percent where they may
be on reading. That then lead to Eric and I
putting the common sense planned together to get structured literacy, structure,
numeracy ncaa replacement away. But look, I mean that is
the thing. We're trying to fix the basics and we're
trying to build out the things for the future that
set the country up for great success. But now I
hear what you're saying. It's just generally done from as
(21:12):
a turnaround guy, what's the problem that you're trying to
deal with, and then common sense plan going forward. So
it's context more so than just wanting to beat up
the opposition per se, because actually we want to talk
about our plans and what we're trying to do, which
is common sense stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
He does have a good point, though, fair point, yep, John,
good morning to you.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
Good morning and John taking my call and thank you
to the Prime Minister, but also taking my call. I'm
self employed, I'm optimistic about the future. But my question
is around how do you as a PM navigate the
(21:50):
negative comments while providing hope and taking people with you
all of the same same time when the government itself
has made up of parties with the reviews of how
to reach utopia?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Well, listen, I appreciate are you empathizing with me understanding
what it looks like in my shoes from day to day.
But look, a couple of thoughts for you. One is,
you know, I choose to do this job. I could
do lots of things, but I choose to do it
because I love the country and I want it to
realize it's potential. So you've got to get connected to
that's the mission and purpose. And if I read everything
that was written about me at four thirty in the
morning when I wake up, I wouldn't want to get
(22:23):
out of bed. So and I've also just learned to
be informed by social media but not consumed by it.
And I've also had a view very strongly from the
get go, which is, look, people, I don't take advice from,
I won't take offense from either. So those are things
that personally I do to navigate some of the heavy
criticism that you get. Obviously that comes with this job.
But honestly, it's a tremendous privilege and I'm very deuced
and very excited about the potential that s. It's an
(22:44):
out awesome country and we are going to build a
kick ass country for our kids, now grand kids. Period.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
All very well and good taking criticism from random trolls
on the internet. What about when the criticism comes from
your coalition partner, what do you do with the problem,
Like Winston.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
You mean like I'm an engine FDA for example, or
something like that. Yeah, I mean he knows exactly what
he's doing. Well, we are in an MMP system. New
Zealanders have chosen it. As I've said many times, before
they vote election night, we make the case for why
we want a national lead government and why they should
vote for US, and so we can form as stronger
government as we can. MMP means you're going to have
to form coalitions. That's the reality of Western Europe. It's
(23:23):
what's happening in New Zealand, and they have different policies,
different constituents and different views on something like the FTA.
You know, Winston opposed the China FDA back in two
thousand and eight. He was wrong, with all respect, he's
wrong on this. India is a one point five million
people country, it's the third biggest, going to be the
third biggest economy, it's fastest growing economy.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
About the immigrants, yeah, and then.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
The immigrants thing is all untrue. I mean, you know,
we have got really smart immigration policy and in fact,
something I'm proud about in the last two years is
we've tightened up a lot of our settings because.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
This will open it wide open.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
According to Winston, no, I disagree, he's completely wrong. He's
a lawyer. But the point is that if you look
at the US and the UK, they have massive amounts
of illegal immigration. They have thousands or hundreds of people
coming into their country illegally each and every day, so
it's a big issue there. But New Zealand's been different.
We have had we have had rights and responsibilities and
we've been very clear about immigration only coming in where
(24:19):
it supports the shortages we have in our economy.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So what protections are there in the FTA that we
won't be swamped?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
So for example, the student the temporary visa that comes
in for a three year period, they have to go home,
They can't bring in their families and friends, you know,
to work and live and all that stuff. And you
know there's real restrictions around that. Erica Stamford is the
Minister of Immigration's got so that really tightly controlled. The
working holiday visa is no different from forty five other
arrangements we have across the across the across the world
(24:45):
with other countries, and the student visa is exactly what
we do with other students and we are completely as
a government. It's up to us to determine the settings
and applications of who does and doesn't get get to
come into the country. So all of that is completely
untrue and it's a normal feature of these arrangements. It's similar.
We've had similar before, and it's I'm proud of our
(25:06):
immigration policy because it's a major issue around the countries
all around the world. You see it with Ferrags, you
see it with Trump, you see it with Pauline Hanson.
In Australia, we have a smart immigration policy. We've tightened
up the settings. We want people to be here, but
we want it linked to our economic agenda and our infrastructure.
I spoke about it earlier in the year and past
governments have done this, which is you can just open
up the taps for immigration and crank up house prices
(25:27):
and get the economy growing that way, but it's not
quality growth. You're not doing it the right way. So
the hardest thing is to make sure that we've got
good settings around it there tight and the link very
strongly to our agendas.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
We got short So Winston's just being Winston in an election. Ye.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Well, he's entitled to talk to his constituents whoever he
thinks they are. But I just you know, I just
say to you, you know, this is a country that's
benefited from immigration, but it's been smartly done. It's tightly managed,
and it's linked to our shortages that we have in
our economy. When we're short welders and we need those
people we need to let we have a green list
and it goes up and down, and it fluctuates, and
(26:01):
we change it a lot as to what we need
at what certain times. We're running smart immigration policies and
not like other countries.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Would you like to ask the voters very nicely to
vote for you so you don't have to deal with
Winston Peters next time?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Well, I'll make the case as every political party wilt
why we want them to party vote National over any
other party. But that's up to the voters. And the
great thing is we have a democracy and we shouldn't
take it for granted. And New Zealanders we'll all get
what we deserve. So we deserve the very best and
that's up to key weis to make their judgments about.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
That news talk said b es See, this is what
happens when we talk about the fta. Well, why have
we got so many Indians cleaning cars and driving buses.
We don't need to bring in immigrants to sell alcohol,
wash carsmo lawns, paint houses. Is one of the critical industries.
We're sort of labor and including uber drivers too many
uber drivers' hospitality and gear workers. And they're our parents.
(26:51):
As Helen said when this came out, if we had
an FTA with Sweden, I bet there wouldn't be this
kind of kickback.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Well, all I'd say is the visas that we're opening
up under the FTA, eighty percent of them are tied
to the green list, and that is the shortages that
we have across the country twenty percent of specialist locations
about eight hundred places as I think, But you know,
that's very much what we're doing. And so we have
been short bus drivers. We actually have been short truck drivers.
We have been short mechanics, we've been short welders over
the last you know, three or four years. And it
(27:17):
does fluctuate, and we make those changes very dynamically. But
you know, we are not in a situation like I've observed.
Even Australia and Canada they had very lacks immigration settings
and that out they've had to tighten those up. We've
been smart.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
As we have had in the past.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Well, yes, and that's what I've made the point before
is that you know, you look at our immigration that's
come into the country over recent years, you know, compared
to what you've seen in Australia, Canada and certainly what
you've seen within a different set of problems around illegal
immigration that you know Farage and Trump have talked about
in those countries. So you know, we are a country
that we should be very proud of the immigrants that
have come in. They work incredibly hard. They take one, two,
(27:55):
three jobs to get a deposit for a house and
for a business. They are a great role model, I
think to some New Zealanders to actually observe hard work
and aspiration and ambition. But equally we manage it tightly
because we link it to the economy and when we don't,
that's when you lose the socialize feration.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, what about our dependence on the primary sector. Thank
God for them, you know, thank God for them. But
that is that is a vulnerable sector. It's vulnerable to
whether it's vulnerable to taste, to overseas demand. How do
we spread not put all our quite literally kiwi fruit
(28:30):
into one basket.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Well, I'm actually quite proud that we're actually seeing growth
across all of our sectors. So it's services as well.
A lot of technology growth, a lot of startups growth
that's happening.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Isn't that exciting?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
It's really exciting. I was at an event on the
weekend around sale GP. We've had four billion dollars come
in for people who want to invest five or ten
million dollars in startup companies essentially in New Zealand. That's
enabled those companies to grow, open up new markets and
high people. That's what we want to see. That's smart,
that's really smart.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
How gaming industry is.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Video gaming is going really well. Tourism is bouncing back
really strongly, just on primary industries. You know, isn't it interesting?
You know we use you know, people would call farmers villains.
You know, they are deeply valued. But we're in a
place now where dairy is under huge I demand around
the world, red meat and sheep meat, protein is in
real demand because the herds have been shrinking around the world,
and we've refused to let our herd shrink. And you've
(29:19):
seen me talk about what I've done on agricultural pricing in.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
A once they have shrink from what they used to.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Be sure, but relative to other countries, we have more
of what the world needs and even horticulture and now
walls at are ten year high, and so actually the
outlook for the next few years is very positive because
the world demand is greater than the supply. And what
we're doing as a country or as a government, and
I've Todd mclan I've been doing over the last two years,
We've hit the planes hard because i want those processes
to be able to say I'm going to sell product
(29:45):
in America or China or India or the Middle East
or UK or Europe, and I'm going to move my
product to where the greatest margin and best prices are
so I can get those moneies back into New Zealand
and those profits back into New Zealand so that I
can actually hire more people, expand my business continue to grow.
So we shouldn't beat up on farmers ever. They have
deeply valued and they are innovative, and they keep getting
more reductive, and we're the most carbon efficient farmers in
(30:08):
the world. So it's stupid to shut that all down
and move it all offshore as was proposed of previously.
I'm trying not to criticize the last government based off
the feedback I did, but it was insane, but so
I'm really proud of it. So I think you know
you're seeing growth and manufacturing, you've see growth and services.
Auckland when you and I spoke last year was a problem.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
We don't have a constant yet supply of affordable energy
and then that LPG and we're running out of time.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Well, y can I say on energy? We have a
massive renewables boom going on in this country. In fact,
in the September quarter we had the lowest emissions we've
had since twenty ten. And that's because there's a hell
of a lot of solar, geothermal wind being built across
the country. Local people doing it, international people wanted to
do it. But we also have this dry year risk
and we need we need we need a backup on coal.
(30:56):
We need a big backup on gas. And that's what
that's about. And by doing that, you're lowering prices fifty
dollars per household. By doing that LNG facility.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
You've got a minute to tell middle income earners who
are doing their best, doing their best by their families,
doing their best by the country, who aren't feeling it,
who've had a tough time. One of them may have
been made redundant it's they're not they're not feeling optimistic.
What do you say to them.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Well, I acknowledge it's been very difficult the last few years.
We've dealt with COVID, We've dealt with inflation, we've dealt
with you know, technical dislocation in some cases and some sectors,
some jobs. But I want them to know that this
is a government that understands the economy and we're doing
the right things for the long term. We've had to
fix a lot of basics and we'll continue to do that,
but we are building out the things that create the
(31:44):
potential and the growth that we want to see in
this country. Whether it's the planning system, it's not sexy stuff,
but it's important stuff. The stuff we talked about on
infrastructure and this call education reform. We've got to step
up our savings and investment for retirement, all those kinds
of big issues and challenges, but also massive opportunities. So
I know it's still tough for some people, but we
are saying, you know, we've had a big turn around
(32:06):
the recessions. You know, now we're in recovery mode. We
want to see more growth coming through, and we want
to see people feeling that over the course of this year,
and that's what our real hope is. And our plan is.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Oh lordy, lordie. That goes quickly, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Doesn't it go quick?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I wish we had more time because there's a lot
of things. I actually really love this format because you
get to talk more than three to six seconds on
the one o'clock on the six clock news. It's good
explain some things.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Oh my goodness, I know. And New Zealanders get it well,
they do kind of get it. Is this a party
political broadcast or a chance for talkback called is to
ask questions of the Privateis we need to phone? Did
you phone anonymous text? Did you? I don't think you did.
You were waiting for other people to do that. Yeah,
I'm lucky to have our prima minister.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
You're going to appeal to at least half the half
the audience.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
As I said to Mum, half the people. Don't read
the comments, please don't. It was lovely. I did my
first Facebook post when I came into politics, you know,
four or five years ago, and Mum said, oh, I
just read that. That wasn't a very good article, was it?
And I said, Oh mum, what do you mean it
was okay? And she said, no, no, I read all the comments.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't please don't do that.
They won't like your little boy, half of them all
and half of them won't.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
No, that's right. But you're just steady as she goes
and doing the boring stuff and doing it well.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Well.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
It's just like we have an awesome country. I know
it's been tough and difficult times, but I am so
excited about the future of this place. Yes, we are
fixing a lot of basics and we have to sort
a lot of basic stuff out and get it run
better and get improvement from that, but we're also in
a place of building out the future and that's pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Were were going to go and you're leaving. Your choice
today for the song is Olivia Dean and.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
She is awesome. She's amazing.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
The song is nice to each other. Yep, not the
man I need. You could for your song to the voters.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
That could have made but I thought this was more appropriate.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Have a great afternoon from it.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Thank you, Kerry.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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