A commercial fisherman is aiming to clear up some misconceptions around the industry in the wake of the Government’s controversial Fisheries Amendment policy.
The Government yesterday U-turned on one clause, which would’ve eased the minimum fish size limits for commercial companies.
Doug Saunders-Loder, the President of the NZ Federation of Commercial Fishermen, told Kerre Woodham they’re unfortunately in a situation in which they’ve been poor at educating the public over the years on how the industry works.
He says it does them no good at all to be operating in a space where they’re destroying the livelihood they create.
Saunders-Loder told Woodham they have people catching fish in whatever way they can, all at a level that is nothing more than responsible and working under a fisheries management system that is world-leading.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks. He'd be Doug saundersloader. You're the president of
the New Zealand Federation of Commercial Fishermen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Kerrie, good morning. How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm very very well. Did someone tell you we were
talking about the bill?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah? I wasn't listening personally, but I had my phone
rang Hoff in respect of some of the concerns people
were showing and some of the context that was required,
so I thought I would at least take the opportunity
to call Kerry and happily answer any of your questions.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh, I'm glad you did. And can I throw it
open to the audience as well if they've got any
questions that they can ask you. How many of the
commercial fishing boats now have the new nets that reduce
the bycatch and the mortality.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Not many, not many at all. The companies you reflected on, Milana,
Sanford and Sea Lords entered into a joint venture with
the government and developed PSH to the credit a significant
amount of money and as you've heard from Curley and
Mike Atoll, that the industry can use but for the
rest of us not available yet. Phlomo is working towards
(01:17):
getting there, but the costs are just something too prescriptive
for a small and sure postal trawler to invest in
at the moment. These are just ongoing initiatives that are
being initiative influmented by the industry across the board. So
flow mooh is a great initiative. It'll become cost prohibitive,
costs effective one day, and I'm sure people will use it,
(01:40):
but it doesn't or shouldn't detract from the conventional trall operation,
which is just getting better and better as the day
goes by.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
How are you reducing by catch?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, Mike reflected on it very simply, and that's about
messize and configuration of mesh. So you've got small fish
by catch being able to escape through conventional nets as
effectively as it does through a PSHD, and that's really important.
You've got guys that are investing in light a year,
You've got guys that are investing in less an impact.
(02:13):
So it's just a constant and an evolutionary process, something
that we should actually be very proud about because we're
still able to feed our nation and.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Other nations who have overfished their stocks.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Oh correct, But that, of course is something that's just
inherently important for us as a country of five million people.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right But looking at at the mistakes made by other countries,
it doesn't seem I mean, certainly we're responding and we're
getting better, but it's taking so much time. When you
can see what the problems are, there doesn't seem to
be the urgency to fix them.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, I think yeah, But I think sadly that's a
fold of our industry. We're in a situation where we've
been very, very poor educating the public over the years. Fishermen,
by their very nature, are out in the middle of
the day and night, cold, wet, with a dependent environment
where they just really want to get on and catch fish.
For those of us that are involved in supporting them,
(03:13):
we have to make sure that we present them in
such a way that they can be well received by
the consumer. It does us no good at all to
be operating in a space where we're destroying the very
livelihoods and create.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Which is exactly what's happened around the world on so
many fisheries.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
But importantly, and I think this is a really good context,
you need to understand that we can't follow the rest
of the world. The dynamics between our fisheries are very different.
Times in England. For arguments, Hey, you've got thirty EU
countries fishing in the same grounds, are chasing about six
different species. New Zealand should be proud of the fact
that we have a huge variety of fish in our
(03:52):
country that we can deliver to our people in the
local market and also internationally. We are spoiled by choice
and we have to catch that whichever way we possibly can.
We've got people that are fit netting, longlining, trawling, all
at a level that is nothing more than responsible and
working under a fishery management system that is world leading.
(04:14):
I get frankly very annoyed at the boom merchants that
sell this out as being a piss poor system when
in actual fact the whole of New Zealand should be
embracing it. It's not perfect, let's not be silly, but
that's just life and we as an industry and we
(04:34):
as a country should be enjoying the marina state we've got.
This should not be them a US argument. I heard
you talking before about the Tayoga of New Zealand. Nobody
in this commercial fishing industry could expect anything less.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
When it comes to bottom trawling, though, why do we
still need to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Because a large proportion of the fish still live on
the bottom and can't be harvested in any other way. Yes,
we can pick up some, but not the variety of
fish that we've traditionally caught.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But why do we have to catch those given the
rich diversity of our fish stocks? Why do we have
to go after that damaging until we've got a way
of catching them that doesn't disturb the ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
But you're living about You're living in an environment that's
been modified over one hundred years, so it's no different
to looking at the cannery planes and seeing how it's
been modified, or looking down the Queen Street and Auckland
and seeing how that's been modified. We can do this
at a level that is sustainably unacceptable, environmentally acceptable. It's
just about convincing the public that that's the case. At
(05:44):
the moment, we've done nothing seriously to contest a constant
narrative that says it's bad, destructive, and there's plenty of
people out there that are doing that simply to cast
us thunder.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
But it's hard, it's hard to look at bottom trawling
and seeing it as anything other than destructive.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, that's because of the way it's been portrayed. As
I said to you before, the industry hasn't done a
particularly good job of doing that. We are getting better,
and we are doing wherever we can. I've met people,
I've discussed it with people in local communities and gathered
a lot more support and confidence in it. It's just
about us communicating that with the people. You could go
(06:26):
to any coastal port in New Zealand and talk to
Insure trial fishermen and he would take you tomorrow and
show you the destruction that he causes. It's negligent. I
just I feel strong about this car. It's very, very
important that the public of New Zealand don't just follow
(06:46):
one particular pathway. It's very important that they recognize the
local coastal and community people and that they you know,
an actual fact. It's a bit of a hard sell
for me on the basis that I'm trying to convince
you of this now, because in many coastal ports the
community don't share that thought about their local Tralamen makes
you like to turn up at the wharf and seeing
(07:07):
they can get a few fish off them. But the
system that we've got in place, as good as it is,
is not perfect, and it's very very complex for that very.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Purpose, absolutely, and look on.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I can embrace it.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I'm all for. I mean, I had somebody send in
a text going, well, I want to be able to catch,
you know, to go down to my supermarket. I don't
want to go out fishing, but I do like fish,
so I want to be able to go and buy it.
So I think people should be able to do whatever
they like to bring the catch back so I can
enjoy the fish.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But I should be able to do whereever they like.
But it's got to be within the bounds and constraints
that the society expects.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
But I guess I'm just I'm just concerned that it's
taken such a long time to adapt and evolve and
change to better practice. I know everyone says we're world leading,
and we're amazing and incredible in the envy of the
rest of the world when it comes to are fishing.
But when you see the video of the destruction of
(08:11):
the bottom trawling, and bottom trawling is an insult, you know,
It's like to call someone a bottom trawler or as
an insult.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
That depends entirely on what video you're seeing, if it's
one that's been presented on the basis that it just
wants to destroy the name of bottom trawl, and it's
in the Norwegian Sea, Ye meet a high rock hoppers
or whatever in destroying coral. Look absolutely agree with you.
Not happening in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
All right, we'll take a short break because we're massively
up against the ads. If you have questions for Doug,
he's here and he's happy to answer them, and bloody
god on him for putting up his hand. Doug is
back now. Sorry, you probably didn't realize when you rang
in that you were signing up for half an hour
on the wireless. What about the people who are thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
For the opportunity on as relaxed as all hell. The
reality is it's just going to be able to have
a conversation about Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
It's good. People are saying, why are we still bottom
trawling when nobody else is?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, it's not true that no one else is. I
know there's a lot of rhetoric about banning boddom trawling internationally,
but if you do some research you'll find that the
majority of bodo and trawling that's been banned is in
marine protected areas. That's an infaird proposition to the extent
that no one in New Zealand fish is the marine
reserves or marine protected areas. We create that for that reason.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
But it's highly restricted in many parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's highly restricted in many parts of New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So why do we still need to do it in
this day and age, given the diversity of stock that
we already have. Could we not just limit it to
the fish that can be caught without disrupting the environment.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Assuming that's the case, you can, But the fact of
the matter is that people of New Zealand won't get
the variety of fish delivered to them. The supermarkets of
New Zealand will not have a choice. We'll end up
exporting importing, sorry to arpa and bassa and various other
things to serve the needs of our people. You know,
there's six hundred recreational fishermen in New Zealand that enjoy that,
and I say so, your boots, you're dealing with one
(10:10):
of the best fisheries in the world. Regardless of what
some of the boom merchants say, but there there, there's
there's four point eight other million people and usingly like
to buy at fish and chip shops and in supermarkets.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
But they're not huge, like if you're buying your fish
and chips, they're not usually fish from the that have
been trolled from the bottom, are they? Absolutely, we're talking snapper,
we're talking sharpers, lemon fish.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
The trolling provides you with a visual of it. You're
familiar with the New Zealand commercial fish species posters that
we see in our fish and chip shops.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, I have seen them, but not recently. My local
one doesn't have it.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, okay, well, well they used to have commercial fishbees
poses the most fish and chip shops. It'd be to
be one hundred and twenty stocks of fish on that
both quoted and non quoted.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I did an exercise the other day for my own purposes.
You take away bottom trawling in the New Zealand coastal
ensure trawling and you will end up with about twelve
fish on that list that you can eat. There are
some that you can catch with other methods, which we've identified,
but the reality is you will remove eighty percent of
(11:19):
our current diet, but our current fresh diet.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, if you are catching them yourself, though, you don't
need to go bottom trawling to catch a huge diversity
of species.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
If you're fortunate enough to be able to do.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That, Yeah, well it doesn't take a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Not everyone in New Zealand's capable of that, of course.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well it's not. You know, it's not the hardest thing
in the world, and it's not the most costly thing
in the world to throw a line out.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
No, no, no, that's absolutely right. And as I said
a minute ago, that's that's an inherent right that we
as individuals in New Zealand have, and a large number
of us do. I say that's great and we should
embrace that for what it's worth. But we can't ignore
the people in this country that can't do it.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
How do we make it better? And somebody says, can
you ask Doug what he thinks is the best solution
to keeping New Zealand fish stocks at a healthy level
and for future generations of New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Remove the politics from it the start. There's not a
fishery in the world that has ever been successful managed
on politics. We also don't manage them very well on Facebook.
We've got screeds and screeds of information, scientific information in
this country based on both recreational and commercial fishing. We
need to stop ignoring that, and we need to stop
(12:39):
placing all of our emphasis on the bits and pieces
that don't work. Some people today still continue to argue
about what happened thirty years ago. Sadly, my reaction to
that is move on. We are in a better place.
We are in a far better place, and we should
embrace that. And as a group of New Zealanders thinking
(13:01):
about m ZINC, we should be thinking more about how
we align ourselves in a political To me, at least,
my opinion is that if you've got a recreational sector
that's worth four billion dollars worth of economic benefits to
New Zealand, you've got a commercial fishery that's worth four
billion or five billion, it's just a huge that's a
huge economic value that our Marina State brings to New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
All right, I thank you so much for your time, Doug,
and hopefully it won't be the last time we talked.
Doug Sundersloader, president of the New Zealand Federation of Commercial Fishermen.
For more from carry Wood and Mornings. Listen live to
news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Kerry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks. He'd be Doug saundersloader. You're the president of
the New Zealand Federation of Commercial Fishermen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Kerrie, good morning. How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm very very well. Did someone tell you we were
talking about the bill?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah? I wasn't listening personally, but I had my phone
rang Hoff in respect of some of the concerns people
were showing and some of the context that was required,
so I thought I would at least take the opportunity
to call Kerry and happily answer any of your questions.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh, I'm glad you did. And can I throw it
open to the audience as well if they've got any
questions that they can ask you. How many of the
commercial fishing boats now have the new nets that reduce
the bycatch and the mortality.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Not many, not many at all. The companies you reflected on, Milana,
Sanford and Sea Lords entered into a joint venture with
the government and developed PSH to the credit a significant
amount of money and as you've heard from Curley and
Mike Atoll, that the industry can use but for the
rest of us not available yet. Phlomo is working towards
(01:17):
getting there, but the costs are just something too prescriptive
for a small and sure postal trawler to invest in
at the moment. These are just ongoing initiatives that are
being initiative influmented by the industry across the board. So
flow mooh is a great initiative. It'll become cost prohibitive,
costs effective one day, and I'm sure people will use it,
(01:40):
but it doesn't or shouldn't detract from the conventional trall operation,
which is just getting better and better as the day
goes by.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
How are you reducing by catch?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, Mike reflected on it very simply, and that's about
messize and configuration of mesh. So you've got small fish
by catch being able to escape through conventional nets as
effectively as it does through a PSHD, and that's really important.
You've got guys that are investing in light a year,
You've got guys that are investing in less an impact.
(02:13):
So it's just a constant and an evolutionary process, something
that we should actually be very proud about because we're
still able to feed our nation and.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Other nations who have overfished their stocks.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Oh correct, But that, of course is something that's just
inherently important for us as a country of five million people.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right But looking at at the mistakes made by other countries,
it doesn't seem I mean, certainly we're responding and we're
getting better, but it's taking so much time. When you
can see what the problems are, there doesn't seem to
be the urgency to fix them.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, I think yeah, But I think sadly that's a
fold of our industry. We're in a situation where we've
been very, very poor educating the public over the years. Fishermen,
by their very nature, are out in the middle of
the day and night, cold, wet, with a dependent environment
where they just really want to get on and catch fish.
For those of us that are involved in supporting them,
(03:13):
we have to make sure that we present them in
such a way that they can be well received by
the consumer. It does us no good at all to
be operating in a space where we're destroying the very
livelihoods and create.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Which is exactly what's happened around the world on so
many fisheries.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
But importantly, and I think this is a really good context,
you need to understand that we can't follow the rest
of the world. The dynamics between our fisheries are very different.
Times in England. For arguments, Hey, you've got thirty EU
countries fishing in the same grounds, are chasing about six
different species. New Zealand should be proud of the fact
that we have a huge variety of fish in our
(03:52):
country that we can deliver to our people in the
local market and also internationally. We are spoiled by choice
and we have to catch that whichever way we possibly can.
We've got people that are fit netting, longlining, trawling, all
at a level that is nothing more than responsible and
working under a fishery management system that is world leading.
(04:14):
I get frankly very annoyed at the boom merchants that
sell this out as being a piss poor system when
in actual fact the whole of New Zealand should be
embracing it. It's not perfect, let's not be silly, but
that's just life and we as an industry and we
(04:34):
as a country should be enjoying the marina state we've got.
This should not be them a US argument. I heard
you talking before about the Tayoga of New Zealand. Nobody
in this commercial fishing industry could expect anything less.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
When it comes to bottom trawling, though, why do we
still need to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Because a large proportion of the fish still live on
the bottom and can't be harvested in any other way. Yes,
we can pick up some, but not the variety of
fish that we've traditionally caught.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But why do we have to catch those given the
rich diversity of our fish stocks? Why do we have
to go after that damaging until we've got a way
of catching them that doesn't disturb the ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
But you're living about You're living in an environment that's
been modified over one hundred years, so it's no different
to looking at the cannery planes and seeing how it's
been modified, or looking down the Queen Street and Auckland
and seeing how that's been modified. We can do this
at a level that is sustainably unacceptable, environmentally acceptable. It's
just about convincing the public that that's the case. At
(05:44):
the moment, we've done nothing seriously to contest a constant
narrative that says it's bad, destructive, and there's plenty of
people out there that are doing that simply to cast
us thunder.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
But it's hard, it's hard to look at bottom trawling
and seeing it as anything other than destructive.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, that's because of the way it's been portrayed. As
I said to you before, the industry hasn't done a
particularly good job of doing that. We are getting better,
and we are doing wherever we can. I've met people,
I've discussed it with people in local communities and gathered
a lot more support and confidence in it. It's just
about us communicating that with the people. You could go
(06:26):
to any coastal port in New Zealand and talk to
Insure trial fishermen and he would take you tomorrow and
show you the destruction that he causes. It's negligent. I
just I feel strong about this car. It's very, very
important that the public of New Zealand don't just follow
(06:46):
one particular pathway. It's very important that they recognize the
local coastal and community people and that they you know,
an actual fact. It's a bit of a hard sell
for me on the basis that I'm trying to convince
you of this now, because in many coastal ports the
community don't share that thought about their local Tralamen makes
you like to turn up at the wharf and seeing
(07:07):
they can get a few fish off them. But the
system that we've got in place, as good as it is,
is not perfect, and it's very very complex for that very.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Purpose, absolutely, and look on.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I can embrace it.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I'm all for. I mean, I had somebody send in
a text going, well, I want to be able to catch,
you know, to go down to my supermarket. I don't
want to go out fishing, but I do like fish,
so I want to be able to go and buy it.
So I think people should be able to do whatever
they like to bring the catch back so I can
enjoy the fish.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But I should be able to do whereever they like.
But it's got to be within the bounds and constraints
that the society expects.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
But I guess I'm just I'm just concerned that it's
taken such a long time to adapt and evolve and
change to better practice. I know everyone says we're world leading,
and we're amazing and incredible in the envy of the
rest of the world when it comes to are fishing.
But when you see the video of the destruction of
(08:11):
the bottom trawling, and bottom trawling is an insult, you know,
It's like to call someone a bottom trawler or as
an insult.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
That depends entirely on what video you're seeing, if it's
one that's been presented on the basis that it just
wants to destroy the name of bottom trawl, and it's
in the Norwegian Sea, Ye meet a high rock hoppers
or whatever in destroying coral. Look absolutely agree with you.
Not happening in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
All right, we'll take a short break because we're massively
up against the ads. If you have questions for Doug,
he's here and he's happy to answer them, and bloody
god on him for putting up his hand. Doug is
back now. Sorry, you probably didn't realize when you rang
in that you were signing up for half an hour
on the wireless. What about the people who are thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
For the opportunity on as relaxed as all hell. The
reality is it's just going to be able to have
a conversation about Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
It's good. People are saying, why are we still bottom
trawling when nobody else is?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, it's not true that no one else is. I
know there's a lot of rhetoric about banning boddom trawling internationally,
but if you do some research you'll find that the
majority of bodo and trawling that's been banned is in
marine protected areas. That's an infaird proposition to the extent
that no one in New Zealand fish is the marine
reserves or marine protected areas. We create that for that reason.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
But it's highly restricted in many parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's highly restricted in many parts of New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So why do we still need to do it in
this day and age, given the diversity of stock that
we already have. Could we not just limit it to
the fish that can be caught without disrupting the environment.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Assuming that's the case, you can, But the fact of
the matter is that people of New Zealand won't get
the variety of fish delivered to them. The supermarkets of
New Zealand will not have a choice. We'll end up
exporting importing, sorry to arpa and bassa and various other
things to serve the needs of our people. You know,
there's six hundred recreational fishermen in New Zealand that enjoy that,
and I say so, your boots, you're dealing with one
(10:10):
of the best fisheries in the world. Regardless of what
some of the boom merchants say, but there there, there's
there's four point eight other million people and usingly like
to buy at fish and chip shops and in supermarkets.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
But they're not huge, like if you're buying your fish
and chips, they're not usually fish from the that have
been trolled from the bottom, are they? Absolutely, we're talking snapper,
we're talking sharpers, lemon fish.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
The trolling provides you with a visual of it. You're
familiar with the New Zealand commercial fish species posters that
we see in our fish and chip shops.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, I have seen them, but not recently. My local
one doesn't have it.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, okay, well, well they used to have commercial fishbees
poses the most fish and chip shops. It'd be to
be one hundred and twenty stocks of fish on that
both quoted and non quoted.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I did an exercise the other day for my own purposes.
You take away bottom trawling in the New Zealand coastal
ensure trawling and you will end up with about twelve
fish on that list that you can eat. There are
some that you can catch with other methods, which we've identified,
but the reality is you will remove eighty percent of
(11:19):
our current diet, but our current fresh diet.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, if you are catching them yourself, though, you don't
need to go bottom trawling to catch a huge diversity
of species.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
If you're fortunate enough to be able to do.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That, Yeah, well it doesn't take a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Not everyone in New Zealand's capable of that, of course.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well it's not. You know, it's not the hardest thing
in the world, and it's not the most costly thing
in the world to throw a line out.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
No, no, no, that's absolutely right. And as I said
a minute ago, that's that's an inherent right that we
as individuals in New Zealand have, and a large number
of us do. I say that's great and we should
embrace that for what it's worth. But we can't ignore
the people in this country that can't do it.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
How do we make it better? And somebody says, can
you ask Doug what he thinks is the best solution
to keeping New Zealand fish stocks at a healthy level
and for future generations of New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Remove the politics from it the start. There's not a
fishery in the world that has ever been successful managed
on politics. We also don't manage them very well on Facebook.
We've got screeds and screeds of information, scientific information in
this country based on both recreational and commercial fishing. We
need to stop ignoring that, and we need to stop
(12:39):
placing all of our emphasis on the bits and pieces
that don't work. Some people today still continue to argue
about what happened thirty years ago. Sadly, my reaction to
that is move on. We are in a better place.
We are in a far better place, and we should
embrace that. And as a group of New Zealanders thinking
(13:01):
about m ZINC, we should be thinking more about how
we align ourselves in a political To me, at least,
my opinion is that if you've got a recreational sector
that's worth four billion dollars worth of economic benefits to
New Zealand, you've got a commercial fishery that's worth four
billion or five billion, it's just a huge that's a
huge economic value that our Marina State brings to New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
All right, I thank you so much for your time, Doug,
and hopefully it won't be the last time we talked.
Doug Sundersloader, president of the New Zealand Federation of Commercial Fishermen.
For more from carry Wood and Mornings. Listen live to
news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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