Greg Newbold: Criminologist and Author discusses Christchurch woman's murder by a repeat offenders

Over the weekend, a third Christchurch woman was murdered by a violent repeat offender who was subject to monitoring and prison release conditions designed to keep the community safe.

Nicole Tuxford, Juliana Herrera, and Shantelle McDonald, three Christchurch women murdered in the place they should have been safest, in their own homes.

All killed by men with long, documented histories of violence against women, including rape, kidnap, and even previous murders.

Professor Emeritus in Sociology at University of Canterbury and Criminologist Greg Newbold joins Kerre Woodham to discuss the importance of NZ courts cracking down on violent crime, including a call to issue 'life without parole' sentences. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from news Talks,
he'd be.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
In The New Zealand Herald over the weekend, Annelise wrote
that urgent calls for change are mounting after a third
christ churchwoman was murdered by a violent repeat offender who
was subject to monitoring conditions designed to keep the community
safe on their release from prison. It didn't. Nicole Tuxford,

(00:31):
Juliana Herrara, Shantell MacDonald, three christ churchwomen murdered in the
place they should have been safest, in their own homes,
all killed by men with long documented histories of violence
against women, including rape, kidnap and even previous murders. All
three of those women, and many many others, would still

(00:52):
be alive today if we applied the sort of sentencing
that Australian judges thinks perfectly reasonable to apply to these monsters.
Professor Emeritus and Sociology at the University of Canterbury and
criminologist Greg new Bolt joins me now in a very
good morning to you. Greg. Good morning, How is it
that Australia can give out these sorts of thirty year

(01:16):
forty five year sentences and not be considered particularly backward
for doing so, like if we get ten years, it's
a triumph.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, well, we've got a very liberal judiciary here. And
I mean there's also cases of children who've been really
badly battered and the sentences that are given for those
offenses at derosary. If there's a sexual element, the courts
come down like a tunnel bricks. But if there's no
sexual element, the courts tend to be pretty lenient. I

(01:49):
think personally there's a case for a more liberal use
of life without parole in this country. Paul Wilson, the
killer of well, he killed Jen Schroeder and he killed
Mary Tuxford. I mean, that's a clear case of life

(02:09):
without parole in my view. But I mean I actually
knew Wilson a bit. He came through the Saliburry Street
Foundation when I was there on the board of trustees,
and he seemed like a nice bloke. But you just
can't tell with a lot of these guys. They can
appear to be nice people, but they've got some dangerous

(02:32):
demons inside their heads. In cases like that, I think
the courts need to be a lot more a lot
more vindictive, I suppose, or well it is.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I mean it's valuing the life of an innocent victim.
It's valuing the life of the victims. They just I mean,
like the case I was quoting from Australia, from Victoria,
the crown appealed a thirty year sentence despite the fact
that the rapist murderer was twenty, he pleaded guilty and

(03:07):
had no previous convictions. And they said, that's manifestly inadequate
because of the violence of the attack. You'll do it again,
limited rehability to prospects, bang them up.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
I agree, correct.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
It surprises me, Greg, to be.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Honest, Yeah, it stuns me. Actually, I read the article
in this morning's paper and I was very angry about it.
You know, I was shocked, but I sort of knew.
I knew those cases, but in any case, but I mean,
I've got a list here of right in front of me,
thirty eight people who've killed more than once in New Zealand.

(03:48):
And there's a hell of a lot more than just those.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Three that you that were highlighted.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
But a bloody problem, as far as i'm people with
very very violent histories are likely to commit escalating crimes
of escalating violence, which can often result in the murder
of innocent people. All these have been women too, you know.

(04:20):
I mean, it's just terrible.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
And they seem like lovely women who'll take it, you
know who, who meet a man and take them at
face value, or meet the neighbor and say hello to them,
and all of a sudden they become the objects of
these men's sick fascination and desires. Yeah yeah, and they
know they know, these women know a lot of them
that they're going to end up dead, and nobody listens

(04:43):
to them.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The case of Chantale McDonald was
particularly tragic because she endured there were very very strong
indications that he was going to kill her, and he
even said so they all do. There was no sort

(05:06):
of no followup. There's no preemptive arrest or anything like that.
People who breach protection orders, you know, I mean, that's
a really real big red flag and that's another area
which needs to be looked at. People breaching protection orders
should result in automatic imprisonment. Yeah, you know, because time

(05:31):
and time again we see these cases where they've sort
of been slapped on the hand or given a warning
and then next thing, they go ahead, and because they're
not a lot of the guys who do these things,
they're not really in control of their own emotions, and
somebody else needs to control them.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
When it comes to the evolution of your thinking, did
you start off being a bit more liberal and a
bit more reasonable and everybody has a chance to be
rehabilitated jail?

Speaker 3 (05:59):
I was when I got I got out of jail
in nineteen eighty after serving a seven and a half
year sentence, and I'd got to know a lot of
these guys in jail, and I was quite sympathetic towards them.
But I've become less so as I've grown older and
and I witness or become aware I was teaching criminals

(06:24):
you forty years versity, and I became more and more
conservative as time went on.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, especially when you're seeing the same cases being used
as examples of the same people committing the same crimes.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
And how do we change it?

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Then?

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Like somebody pointed out, this is election year. Let your
MP know that this is unacceptable. But how on earth
can judges possibly hand down the sentences they're handing down
when they must know what's happening in other jurisdictions beyond
these shores.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Well, in America. In the United States, if you get
most of the states in America, if you get convicted
degree murder, you get life without parole. It's automatic. But
I wouldn't agree with that. I think the United States
is too tough. But where you've got cases where defendants

(07:21):
have got long histories of violence and that and then
that results on a homicide, and then I think there
is you know, there is a good case for for
life without parole. Burton is another one, Graham Burton. You know,
there's a whole lot of k I wouldn't like to

(07:42):
just nominate one or two. You know, there's a whole
lot of cases I think which where people's lives could
have been saved if the courts a little bit more
aware of the of the ongoing dangers that these people present.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
They're told, they're told about the dangers they present. They
have got rap sheets that are you know, like war
and peace and of page count. They can see for themselves.
What does it take for them to understand that these
people will not be rehabilitated. They might present as charming
as you said, but you know the.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Problem the judges is that their hands are tied by
the Court of appeal. You know, individual judges may think this,
this case deserves say life without parole, but the Court
of Appeal overthrow it.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Why don't they say that at the time, so that
they can become activist judges on the bench.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, I mean, I'll just get their jobs because they're
sort of known to fit in with.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
The prevailing ethos.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Failing you with their prevading leadership. It really needs to
be something that comes from either from the Court of
Appeal or from the government.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Okay, Government's easy enough, especially when they're looking to get
re elected. Greg, Thank you very much. Greek new Bold criminologist,
Professor Emeritus Sociology at the University of Canterbury and author.
His book Dream Dealer From Prisoner to Professor is out
now and it's from the excerpts I've read, it's a
great read.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
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