Kerre Woodham: How can we justify sending money overseas when our own infrastructure is failing?

Yesterday, I was talking about the amount of aid we're sending to places like Vietnam and Indonesia. Places I would venture to suggest that are showing more go ahead, more investment in infrastructure than we are. When you're looking at Vietnam, they're building one of the largest stadiums in the world, they've got fast rail underway, they're building a huge city to house much of its population – they're spending billions. It's also a place where New Zealanders travel to get first class healthcare that we can't access here. 

Now we've asked Winston Peters why we're sending money to Vietnam and Indonesia. He, or his people, referred us to MFAT. MFAT says they need time to tell us why Vietnam is in need of New Zealand money – we're waiting to hear back from them. They have been asked this before. Why are we sending money to places that don't really need it? It's the equivalent of donating to a Givealittle page for your neighbour to find out that they're building a swimming pool, but you can't afford to.  

I was asking this question yesterday, this morning there are two stories about the parlous state of two of New Zealand's hospitals. Could be any of the hospitals, but in this case it's Middlemore, the ageing maternity block, and Hutt Hospital. And staff are complaining about the multiple leaks and electrical faults and mould and water on the window as a result of the heavy rain – the buildings can't cope with it. And they accept that every now and then, at times of heavy rain, there will be the odd leak, but they say throughout winter this is what they and the patients have to put up with. 

Both of the hospital directors at Middlemore and Hutt Hospital say patient health was not compromised, services continued as usual, they're just leaks people, nothing to see here. But staff say they're fed up with working under sodden and collapsing roof panels, damp conditions and electrical issues. It might just be a leak on that one particular day and as a patient at the hospital you're only there for three days – the nurses, the doctors, the staff are working there all day every day and throughout winter they say it's miserable.  

There's a programme of works for our hospitals around the country, a 10 year plan, but the need is so great it's hard to know where to start. The average age of our public health estate —1,274 buildings across 86 campuses— is around 47 years. That's the average age, some will be much, much older, and the new ones, the brand new spanking new facilities, will drag that average up. The population is growing and ageing and demand for mental health services is growing. The pressure on government budgets and on the health staff trying to deliver services in decrepit infrastructure is immense. 

There is a 10 year programme of works, but Middlemore maternity hospital and Hutt Hospital don't feature as far as I can see on the plan. You've got Whangārei Hospital – and it's all built into stage one, two, three, and four. Waitākere, and God knows, despite the fact that wasn't in the news, according to locals, that needs a revamp. You've got Middlemore, but they're looking at targeted ED upgrades, and then stage two will be planning a new site. Stage three will be a new site or Middlemore expansion. Nothing about the maternities. Waikato, Tauranga, Gisborne, Hawke's Bay, God knows that needs a revamp. Palmerston North, Wellington and Nelson. So nothing there for Middlemore or Hutt Hospital, so I guess they'll have to keep going to the paper. And if the average age is around 47 years, the need will be great. I don't know how they prioritise which hospitals get it first. 

Then you look at the last financial year, 24/25 New Zealand spent $943.81 million in foreign aid across 624 activities. I get that we want to be good global citizens and I get that we are wealthy compared to other nations and I'm not saying stop all aid, but come on. When household budgets tighten, you have to give less. There isn't that much money to go around, otherwise you are depriving your own family. And this is the case here on a macro scale.  

How can we justify donations to Vietnam, which is just thriving, and Indonesia? How can $943.81 million in foreign aid be justified when we have leaky ageing hospitals, some schools need to be completely and utterly revamped, and some of the police stations are just appalling. A lot of the public buildings in which our public servants work are just not suitable and not fit for people to be there. How can we justify that level of aid when New Zealand citizens are travelling to the very country that we're giving aid to for their medical and dental care? Do foreign aid officials realise how weird that looks? 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks ADB.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yesterday, I was talking about the amount of aid we're
sending to places like Vietnam and Indonesia, places I would
venture to suggest that are showing more go ahead, more
investment in infrastructure than we are. When you're looking at Vietnam,
they're building one of the largest stadiums in the world.

(00:32):
They've got fast rail underway. They're building a huge city
to house much of its population. They're spending billions. It's
also a place where New Zealanders travel to get first
class healthcare that we can't access here. Now, we've asked
Winston Peters why we're sending money to Vietnam and Indonesia.

(00:58):
He well, his people referred us to m Fat. M
Fat says they need time to tell us why Vietnam
is an need of New Zealand money. So we're waiting
to hear back from them. They have been asked this before.
Why are we sending money to places that don't really
need it. It's the equivalent of donating to a give

(01:19):
a little page for your neighbor. To find out that
they're building a swimming pool, but you can't afford anyway.
I was asking this question yesterday. This morning, there are
two stories about the parlor state of two of New
Zealand's hospital could be any of the hospitals, but in
this case it's Middlemore the Aging Maternity Block and Hut

(01:42):
Hospital and staff for complaining about the multiple leaks and
electrical faults and mold and water on the window as
a result of the heavy rain. The buildings can't cope
with it and they accept that every now and then,
at times of heavy rain there will be the odd leak,

(02:03):
but they say throughout winter this is what they and
the patients have to put up with. Both of the
hospital's directors at Middlemoor in Hut Hospital say patient health
was not compromised. Services continued as usual. There just leaks
people nothing to see here. But staff say they're fed

(02:23):
up with working under sodden and collapsing roof panels, damp
conditions and electrical issues. It might just be a leak
on that one particular day, and as a patient at
the hospital are only there for three days, the nurses,
the doctors, the staff are working there all day, every
day and throughout winter. They say it's miserable there's a

(02:48):
program of works for our hospitals around the country, a
ten year plan, but the need is so great it's
hard to know where to start. The average age of
our public health estate, two hundred and seventy four buildings
across eighty six campuses, is around forty seven years. That's
the average age. Some will be much much older, and

(03:12):
the new ones, the brand new, spanking new facilities, will
drag that average up. The population is growing and aging,
and demand for mental health services is growing. The pressure
on government budgets and on the health staff trying to
deliver services and decrepit infrastructure is immense. There is a

(03:32):
ten year program of works, but middle More Maternity Hospital
and Hut Hospital don't feature as far as I can
see on the plan. You've got far At a hospital
and it's all built into stage one, two, three and
four why Taketri and God knows, despite the fact that
wasn't in the news. According to locals, that needs a revamp.

(03:54):
You've got middle More, but they're looking at targeted ed upgrades,
and then Stage two will be planning a new site,
and then Stage three will be a new site or
Middlemore expansion. Nothing about the maternities. Why Kuto, todonger Gisbon,
Hawks Bay, God knows that needs a revamp, Palmerston, North

(04:16):
Wellington and Nelson. So nothing there for a Middlemore or
Hut hospital. So I guess I'll have to keep going
to the papers and if the average age is around
forty seven years, the need will be great. I don't
know how they prioritize which hospitals get at first. Then

(04:40):
you look at the last financial year twenty four to
twenty five, New Zealand spent nine hundred and forty three
point eight one million dollars in foreign aid across six
hundred and twenty four activities. I get that we want
to be good global citizens, and I get that we

(05:01):
are wealthy compared to other nations. And I'm not saying
stop all aid, but come on, when household budgets tightened,
you have to give less. There isn't that much money
to go around, Otherwise you are depriving your own family.
And this is the case here on a macro scale.

(05:25):
How can we justify donations to Vietnam, which is just thriving,
and Indonesia be justified? How can nine hundred and forty
three point eight one million dollars in foreign aid be
justified when we have leaky, aging hospitals. Some of the
schools need to be completely and utterly revamped, or the

(05:47):
classrooms in the halls. Some of the police stations are
just appalling. A lot of the public buildings in which
our public servants work are just not suitable and not
fit for people to be there. How can we justify
that level of aid? And when New Zealand citizens are

(06:09):
traveling to the very country that we're giving aid two
for their medical and dental care, the foreign aid officials
realize how weird that looks.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
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