Kerre Woodham: Is the primary teachers' union acting in its members' best interests?

I'd be getting seriously brassed off if I was a primary school teacher, especially if I was a non-union primary school teacher. The NZEI has been in protracted negotiations with the Public Service Commissioner and the Government over pay and conditions. Every other teaching union has negotiated its own deal for its teachers, its principals, and its support staff, but not the NZEI. The Treaty of Waitangi was a big sticking point for them for a while, but according to Sir Brian Roche, who was on with Mike Hosking this morning, that's no longer the major roadblock it has been.  

At the moment, primary teachers are teaching the new curriculum, and it's amazing. I've seen the homework books. If you've got little ones in your house, primary school students in your house, you will have seen them too. It's your building block stuff. The kids are responding to it because the teachers are presenting it well. They're doing the job already. They're presenting the curriculum, and in my case, I can see that they're doing it well. The children are engaged, they're excited. The older siblings are like, “why didn't we get these books? Why didn't we have these?" They feel like they've missed out, and to a certain extent they have. A whole generation of kids has missed out.  

So they're doing a great job, but they're not getting paid for it because the NZEI is holding out. They're refusing to budge on the pay and conditions negotiations. They chose not to present the latest offer to its members, so the primary teachers couldn't even decide for themselves whether this was a deal they could accept or not. Sir Brian Roche, the Public Service Commissioner, sounds increasingly brassed off. He told Mike Hosking this morning that there is no question that the union works hard for its members, but he does wonder whether the union's acting in the best interests of teachers by failing to even inform its members of the conditions of the latest offer. 

“They work very hard for their union members. There's no question about that and provide a range of services. But on this particular issue, I find it deeply frustrating that our offers are not being put directly to their members.” 

Why would you not? Members of the union have now rejected three proposed settlements. An offer agreed in December was comparable to what secondary teachers accepted last year, but ultimately, when the union took it back to its members, they didn't ratify it. Teachers know there are no lump sums or back pay available in this bargaining round, according to Sir Brian, so every week without settlement is money the teachers aren't receiving – between $50 and $76 per week.  

What exactly is it? What is it that the unions find so repugnant that they cannot bring themselves to even bring it to their members? And if you are a union member, do you accept that your delegates are qualified to make the decisions on your behalf? Do you trust that they will do right by you? Surely, you'd want to see what was being offered, wouldn't you? Or is that what you pay your union dues for? Sir Brian says that he's looking at a way to present the pay and conditions offer to non-union teachers. We've been trying to find how many non-union teachers there are. Apparently that's secret squirrel stuff and it's buried deep – not even AI has the answer to how many non union members of NZEI there are. We're trying to find out. So if you're a non union member, you'd be getting even more frustrated. Apparently, he's bound by confidentiality agreements where he can't present to the non-union members what he's presenting to the union. But he says he's looking for workarounds on that to allow the non-union members to get on and get that extra money in their pockets right now for the work they're doing right now, and many of them are doing really well right now.  

Presumably primary teachers are in the classroom teaching, doing what they do best, so they can't respond. Maybe there's a few home with, you know, head colds or what have you for whatever reason. But I would love to hear your view on whether your union is doing right by you, whether you're like, “Absolutely, hold fast, stay firm, don't give in to the government overlords on this one." But if you are a union member, do you feel that your delegates do right by you? Are you getting value for money from the dues that are deducted from your pay every month or every two weeks?  

When you look at this, it just seems so old fashioned. And I totally get that unions are there for people who don't have a voice, who can't speak up for themselves, who haven't got the bargaining power. But surely articulate, intelligent, capable, self-possessed teachers would be able to bargain their own pay and conditions. Why would you need a union? Why would you need a union delegate to do it for you? And I guess the same goes for, I don't even

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carry Wooden Morning's podcast from News
Talks B.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'd be getting seriously brassed off if I was a
primary school teacher, especially if I was a non union
primary school teacher. The NZI has been in protracted negotiations
with the Public Service Commissioner Slash the government over pay

(00:34):
and conditions. Every other teaching union has negotiated its own
deal for its teachers and its principles and its support staff,
but not the NZI. The Treaty of White Tonguey was
a big sticking point for them for a while, but
according to Sobrian Roach, who was on with Mike Coskin

(00:57):
this morning, that's no longer the major roadblock that it
has been. At the moment, primary teachers are tv the
new curriculum and it's amazing. I've seen the homework books.
If you've got little ones in your house, primary school
students in your home, you will have seen them too.
It's your building block stuff. It's the kids are responding

(01:20):
to it because the teachers are presenting it well. They're
doing the job already. They're presenting the curriculum and in
my case, I can see that they're doing it well.
The children are engaged, they're excited. The oldest siblings are like,
why didn't we get these books? Why didn't we have
these They feel like they're missed out, and to a

(01:42):
certain extent they have a whole generation of kids is
missed out. So they're doing a great job, but they're
not getting paid for it because the NZI is holding out.
They're refusing to budge on the pay and conditions negotiations.
They chose not to present the latest offer to its members,

(02:03):
so the primary teachers couldn't even decide for themselves whether
this was a deal they could accept or not. Sir
Brian Roach, the Public Service Commissioner, who sounds increasingly brassed off.
I kept thinking, mm, he sounds really brassed off. But
I've thought that every time I've heard him on Either
he's just got a you know, like resting bitch face,

(02:23):
he's just got a grumpy speaking voice, or else he
gets grumpy whenever he has to talk about the NZDI.
He told the Mike Hosking Breakfast this morning that there
is no question that the union works hard for its members,
but he does wonder whether the union's acting and the
best interests of teachers by failing to even inform its

(02:43):
members of the conditions of the latest offer.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
They work very hard for their union members, there's no
question about that, and provide a range of services, but
on this particular issue, I find it deeply frustrating that
our offers are not being put directly to their members.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Why would you not? Members of the union have now
rejected three proposed settlements. An offer agreed in December was
comparable to what secondary teachers accepted last year, but ultimately
when the union took it back to its members, they
didn't ratify it. Teachers know there are no lump sums

(03:20):
or backpay available in the sparkling round, according to Sir Brian,
so every week without settlement is money the teachers aren't
receiving between fifty and seventy six dollars per week. What
exactly is it? What is it that the unions find

(03:41):
so repugnant that they cannot bring themselves to even bring
it to their members. And if you are a union member,
do you accept that your delegates are qualified to make
the decisions on your behalf? Do you trust that they
will do right by you? Surely you'd want to see

(04:03):
what was being offered wouldn't you or is that what
you pay you union dues for? Sir Brian says that
he's looking at a way to present the pay and
conditions offer to non union teachers. We've been trying to
find how many non union teachers there are apparently that
secret squirrel stuff and it's very deep with it. Not

(04:26):
even AI has the answer to how many non union
members of NZDI there are. We're trying to find out.
So if you're like, if you're a non union member,
you'd be getting even more frustrated. Apparently he's bound by
confidentiality agreements where he can't present to the non union
members what he's presenting to the union, but he says

(04:48):
he's looking for workarounds on that to allow the non
union members to get on and get that extra money
in their pockets right now for the work they're doing
right now, and many of them are doing really well
right now. Like if you're presumably primary teachers are in
the classroom teaching, doing what they do best, so they

(05:12):
can't respond. Maybe there's a few home with head colts
or what have you, for whatever reason. But I would
love to hear your view on whether your union is
doing right by you, whether you're like absolutely, hold fast,
stay firm, don't give into the government overlords on this one.

(05:39):
But if you are a union member, do you feel
that your delegates do right by you? Are you getting
value for money from the dues that are deducted from
your pay every month or every two weeks when you
look at when you look at this, it just seems
so old fashioned. And I totally get that unions are

(06:02):
there for people who don't have a voice, who can't
speak up for them themselves, who haven't got the bargaining power.
But surely articulate, intelligent, capable, self possessed teachers would be
able to bargain their own pay and conditions. Why would

(06:26):
you need a union? Why would you need a union
delegate to do it for you? And I guess the
same goes for I don't even know who the big
unions anymore. I think you've got the ones for the
cleaner's home help. They do a good job because a
lot of those people would be wouldn't be in the

(06:47):
position to throw their weight around and demand better pay
and conditions. So good if you're doing it on their behalf.
But seriously, unions are going to negotiate themselves out of existence.
Soon they're halfway there already. News Talks said be eight.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Hundred and eight For more from Kerry Woodham Mornings. Listen
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