Kerre Woodham: You can't lump the homeless into one group

I am torn on this one because I know somebody needs to do something. That classic old talkback quote, Somebody needs to do something." Well, somebody has. The government is giving police new powers to crack down on beggars, rough sleepers, and basically nasty oiks.

Yesterday, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith, Police Minister Mark Mitchell announced the new move on orders and details around when they'll be issued and who they will target. Goldsmith said we should not accept our city centres becoming places of intimidation and dysfunction. He said our main streets and town centres have been blighted by disruption and disturbance, and inner city businesses are suffering as a result. And he's right.

We've had many Auckland central city business people ringing in at their wits' end about what to do with people who've been sleeping and soiling in their shop doorways and who threaten and intimidate their customers. But the police are right, yet again, they're being told to do the dirty work, the mopping up when other agencies fail, just as they had to do when mental health services were failing the mentally ill.

President of the Police Association Steve Watt told the Mike Hosking Breakfast this morning, it's not the police's job to move on the homeless.

It's about getting the right resource to tackle the problem. And I appreciate police are that 24 7 agency that always respond, that get things done. But the reality is, is we can't be the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff every time. What we have to do is look at the problem

That's what the police are, Steve.

What we have to do is look at the problem and determine what's the best resource to deal with it. And I'd suggest in this case, it's not police.

You sound like a social worker. If somebody's lying across the footpath and abusing me because they're high on drugs and they're causing a disturbance to the peace and I can't open my business or I can't go into a shop, that's your job, isn't it?

And when you talk about the Summary Offences Act, there's offences in there that we can deal with disorderly behaviour. We can arrest people for disorderly behaviour. We can arrest people for threatening behaviour, offensive behaviour. That's not an issue, and we do that on a daily basis. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about move on orders from someone who hasn't committed an offence.

And that's the thing, isn't it? That was Steve Watt, and to be fair, there was a fairly negative reaction to his comments. Oh, get tough, get hard." But if you've met one homeless person, you've met one homeless person. They can't all be lumped together as one hopeless, God forsaken bunch.

Some of them are gentle, kind, broken souls, and I say that because I've met them and I've talked to them. And I think the police have too. So the police know there's a huge number of reasons as to why people are on the street. So some of them are just broken. They're gentle, they're kind, they're good, they're doing their best in a hopeless situation.

Others are crazy, angry, broken souls, like the completely methed out old crone that takes her clothes off, climbs a tree God, the poor tree, you know, nature doesn't judge and that's a beautiful thing, but passers by can and do and shrieks at people from the top of the tree. You know, like, no, not good. Some have been on the street since they were kids because no matter how bad the streets are, it's better than the place they call home.

 Others are victims of circumstance. Remember the man who rang us? He was living in his car despite being a homeowner and formerly having a six figure salary. The drink had got to him. So in a moment of absolute clarity, he'd put tenants in the house so he didn't lose it and couch surfed till all his friends gave up on him they'd had a gutsful and he was living in his car waiting to get into a treatment centre. And I hope he's there now. I think he should be, shouldn't he, Helen? He said he was I think due to go in. And I hope he's doing well. And I have met some really lovely, lovely humans who happen to be homeless, some by choice, some by circumstance.

I've also endured foul mouthed, foul smelling, aggressive humans who I've had to cross the road to get away from. So you can't just lump the homeless into one lot. There's a thousand different reasons why they're there, and the police are quite right. The agencies, the social agencies are the ones who should be trying to help them.

Some of them won't be helped. And if, you know, if they're committing crimes, move them on. None of us should have to put up with abuse and intimidation, nor deal with the filth created by other people, no matter how damaged they are. So I'm really torn. You know, as the police say, if we're moving on the rough sleepers, who's responding to your burglary? Well, Steve, actual

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks head B.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
I am torn on this one because I know somebody
needs to do something that classical talkback quote. Somebody needs
to do something. Well, somebody has. The government is giving
police new powers to crack down on beggars, rough sleepers
and basically nasty oiks. Yesterday, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith Police

(00:35):
Minister Mark Mitchell announced the new move on orders and
details around when they'll be issued in who they will target.
Goldsmith said we should not accept our city centers becoming
places of intimidation and dysfunction. He said, our main streets
and town centers have been blighted by disruption and disturbance,

(00:56):
and inner city businesses are suffering as a result. And
he's right. We've had many Auckland central city business people
ringing in at their wits end about what to do
with people who've been sleeping and soiling in their shop
doorways and to threaten and intimidate their customers. But the
police are right yet again they're being told to do

(01:20):
the dirty work. They're mopping up when other agencies fail,
just as they had to do when mental health services
were failing the mentally ill. President of the Police Association,
Steve Watt told the My Costing Breakfast this morning, it's
not the police's job to move on the homeless.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
It's about getting the right resource to tackle the problem.
And I appreciate police are that twenty four to seven
agency that always respond that gets things done. But the
reality is is we can't be the ambulance at the
bottom of the clip every time. What we have to
do with the police, Steve, what we have to do
is look at the problem and determine what's the best
resource to deal with it. And I'd suggest in this

(01:57):
case it's not police.

Speaker 4 (01:59):
You sound like a social worker. If somebody is If
somebody is lying across the footpath and using me because
they're high on drugs and they're causing a disturbance to
the peace and I can't open my business or I
can't go into a shop, that's your job.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Isn't it. And when you talk about Summary Offenses Act,
there's offenses in there that we can deal with. Disorderly behavior.
We can arrest people for disorder behavior. We can arrest
people for threatening behavior, offensive behavior that's not an issue,
and we do that on a daily basis. That's not
what we're talking about here. We're talking about move on

(02:36):
orders from someone who hasn't committed an offense.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
And that's the thing, isn't it. That was Steve Watt,
And to be fair, there was a fairly negative reaction
to his comments. Oh, I'll get tough, get hard, But
if you've met one homeless person, you've met one homeless person.
They can't all be lumped together as one hopeless, god
forsaken bunch. Some of them are gentle, kind, broken souls.

(03:02):
And I say that because I've met them and I've
talked to them.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
I think the.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Police have too, so the police that know that there's
a huge number of reasons as to why people are
on the street. So some of them are just broken.
They're gentle, they're kind, they're good, They're doing their best
in a hopeless situation. Others are crazy, angry, broken souls,

(03:28):
like the completely methed out old crone that takes the
clothes off climbs. A tree got the poor tree. You know,
nature doesn't judge, and that's a beautiful thing. But passes
by can and do and shrieks at people from the
top of the tree, you know, like no, not good.

(03:52):
Some have been on the streets since they were kids,
because no matter how bad the streets are, it's better
than the place they call home. Others are victims of circumstance.
Remember the man who rang us. He was living in
his car, despite being a homeowner and formerly having a
six figure salary. The drink had got to him, so

(04:12):
in a moment of absolute clarity, he had put tenants
in the house so he didn't lose it, and couch
served till all his friends gave up on him. They'd
had a gutz full. And he was living in his
car waiting to get into a treatment center. And I
hope he's there now. I think he should be, shouldn't
he Helen? He said he was, I think due to
go in, and I hope he's doing well. And I

(04:35):
have met some really lovely, lovely humans who happened to
be homeless, some by choice, some by circumstance. Have also
endured foul mouthed, foul smelling, aggressive humans who I've had
to cross the road to get away from. So you
can't just lump the homeless into one lot. There's a
thousand different reasons why they're there, and the police are

(04:57):
quite right. The agencies, the social agencies, are the ones
who should be trying to help them. Some of them
won't be helped, and if they're committing crimes, move them on.
None of us should have to put up with abuse
and intimidation, nor deal with the filth created by other people,
no matter how damage they are. So I'm really torn.

(05:24):
As the police say, if we're moving on the rough sleepers,
who's responding to your burglary? Well, Steve, Actually, at the
moment nobody is very few. You don't get an instant
police response at the moment anyway, so it's not like
you're going to be suddenly dragged away from my burglary.
To move a rough sleeper on. Something had to be done.

(05:49):
I quite agree. You just can't have the kind of
fighting nakedness foulness anywhere. Nobody should have. Nobody should have
to put up with that, least of all people who
are getting up early and trying to make a living,

(06:10):
and the customers who are trying to support them shouldn't
have to deal with that sort of nonsense either. But
at the same time, we need agencies to help those
who want help, who would like to be helped, who
would like to live in a home, and if that's
the agencies not doing their job, then get on to
them rather than leave it to the police to do

(06:30):
the mopping up yet again.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
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