Nadia Maxwell: Director and producer of 'Under the Influence' on the Manosphere and its impact on boys

The harm social media is causing young people is being explored in ‘Under the Influence’, a new series from the NZ Herald. 

The second episode, ‘Manosphere v Boy’, explores the network of online influencers pushing extreme, and often misogynistic, ideas about masculinity to boys and young men. 

The messaging sets unrealistic expectations around success, wealth, relationships, and dominance, often preying on insecurity and loneliness – offering simple messages and “self-improvement” tips that draw them deeper.  

Director and producer Nadia Maxwell told Kerre Woodham that one thing that isn’t paid enough attention to in this conversation is the cumulative effects.  

She says you might see a video you know has bad messaging, but young people are consuming hours' worth of content daily, and it doesn’t matter how smart you are or what your pre-existing beliefs are, all it takes is repetition. 

A key element of the manosphere playbook is the concept of what’s fair, or to be exact, what isn’t. 

Maxwell told Woodham that they’re essentially saying a certain group of people are to blame for the world being unfair, and then they sell them a solution – reclaiming tradition, power, and masculinity.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to The Carrywood and Morning's podcast from news Talks.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Headb Herald's new online video series, Under the Influence explores
the harms social media is causing young people in New
Zealand and around the world. The second episode, out today
is titled Manosphere Versus Boy. The Manosphere is a network
of online influences pushing extreme, often misogynistic ideas about masculinity

(00:34):
that are reaching boys through social media. They're being exposed
to unrealistic expectations around success, wealth, relationships, and dominance. The
content often praise on insecurity and loneliness, offering simple answers
and self improvement messages that can pull boys deeper in

(00:54):
Under the Influence. Direct producer Nadia Maxwell joins me, now,
very good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Good morning here.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
What is it that makes this so in city? Yes,
because mess I can remember old comics where you had now,
what were those chest expanded and they had the car
Charles Atlas chest expect us in the back and you know,
saying that if you were skinny and puny, the girls
wouldn't look at you. It's the same thing, but bigger,

(01:23):
isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:25):
It is? And I think what makes the whole social
media thing so insidious is that it's you know, it's
so personalized. You know, those ads and things that we
would have seen growing up, it was kind of mass
marketing that was designed to sort of appeal to a
broad audience. But you know, now with algorithms, they can,
you know, they can totally see what makes Carrie different
to Nadia and really target those messages directly to us.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
So boys have always, like we tend to think about
body image as a girl thing, but boys and men
also suffer from self doubt and insecurity too.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, that's right. I think the pressures around body standards
and appearance, you know that have played girls for generations
and they are really coming full force, you know, for
our boys, and like mentioned in your intro, you know,
they're often you know, linked with dangerous messages around you know,
what it means to be a man and how women
should be treated in relationships and things like that.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
What is the danger of pushing those messages? Is it
through social media? Is it that they can't get away
from the algorithm And you could put down the magazine
and walk away, but cannot get away from the algorithm.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
No, I think, I think because it's personalized, it's you know,
it's very hard to walk away from it. But I
also I feel like it's the I was thinking about
this this morning, and I feel like I feel like
we're not paying enough attention to the cumulative effects. You know,
like you might see a video or an example and
you think, oh, you no, that's bad.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
But it's not that bad.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
But if you're consumed, you know, if you've got a
phone in your pocket and you're consuming this for you know,
the average, it's really quite it's quite hard to get stats,
you know, true stats on how long they're young people
are spending on social media, but nobody figure that's come
up a lot across research is sort.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Of five hours.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
You know.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
So if you if you're engaging with these messages, you know,
again and again and you know, absorbing them. And the
young people that we speak to across the series, you know,
they say this, they say it, She doesn't matter how
smart you are or what your pre existing relisa are.
You know, all it takes is repetition.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
And I suppose in an age where things aren't going right,
where it's a time of economic brind and division, and
that it's easy to other you know that you can
blame the fact that you feel unhappy because other people
are more attractive and rubbing it in your face, or

(03:43):
girls don't like you and therefore there's something wrong with
them rather than you, or yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
That's right. I think that's a real kind of key
part of the manisphere, you know, playbook. They're sort of
essentially saying, you know that the world is unfair, and
there's a certain group of people that have coursed it,
you know, to be this way, and then they seldom
a solution, you know, which is to reclaim tradition, reclaim power,
you know, reclaim your mess linucy.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, so worry, yeah, and that men have been emasculated
and that the world set up against them. And and
as always, these things take hold when there's an element
of truth, you know, when when all of a sudden
people have tried to correct the balance between men having
too much or you know, traditional patriarchy having too much.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
I was trying to explain what the manisphere of was recently,
you know, someone in an older generation, and I was
sort of saying, you know, you know, they believe that,
you know, feminism has gone too far, and then I
kind of I looked at that guy I was chatting to,
and I was like, oh, he probably thinks that too,
So you know, that's right there. You know, they you know,
they are you know, And I think a lot of
the dangerous messages in the mask and the manosphere are

(04:54):
sort of building on some of those, you know, unhealthy
narratives around masculinity and you know, and what it means
to be a men. You know, not nothing exists in isolation, right,
So it's all kind of building on the cultural soup
and what's happening.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
It's so hard because when like the men I know
are just fantastic humans, you know, I can't imagine them
not celebrating success of women. I can't imagine them being
vile and disrespectful. I kind of you know, far less actually,

(05:29):
you know, smacking them or anything like that. So if
you move in that kind of circle, how do you
how do you ensure that those insidious messages don't come through?
Is it enough to lead by example, to be a
good man, a good dad? Y? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, And I guess just wanted to jump on your
first point there too, And yeah, absolutely, I've got lots
of wonderful men in my life too, and across the series.
You know, you know, speaking with a young man, you
know that you really gave me. It gave me kind
of heart that we're going to be okay. You know
that there are so many great young men out there
who can think about this. And the other thing is that, like,

(06:08):
you know, we went into a high school. Like the boys,
they want to talk about this, and I think, yeah,
I think that's a really key part of it. And
like you say, kind of having you know, having positive
role models, and like where are the places that you
go now, like you know that notion of third spaces.
Where are the places outside of home and outside of
school for an adult, outside of work and outside of home,
where the intergenerational spaces where there are really positive role models?

(06:32):
Because you know, community has been eroding, right, and not
just since social media, you know, across a.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Long period of time.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
And I think a lot of young guys are you know,
they're going online, they go into social media because they're
longing for community. But unfortunately, when they get there, and
especially if you're young, you know, if you're eleven and
you're kind of absorbing these kind of messages, it's sort
of it feels like a sort of an insane position
to put such a young young person into.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
But that's kind of just what's become the norm, right, Yeah,
when is it enough to keep them away from social
media until they reach an age? Mind? You you know
by fourteen fifteen, they're going to have phones or access
to computers. And yet that's right wherein they're very very vulnerable,
where the hormones are going through them, where they feel

(07:19):
a desperate need to connect, where they want to feel
desired and desirable.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I think, you know, delaying
as long as you given as long as you can
a putting a phone on a kid's hand and be
when you allow them to have social media is a
really great thing if you're able to do that, because
you know, as soon as they have a phone in
social media, like you can't you can't outparent an algorithm
that's been weaponized this way. Yeah, And also I think

(07:47):
you know, we need we need regulation around this, Like
we don't even have a New Zealand, we don't even
have an independent Ease Safety Commissioner. Australia have had.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
One for ten years.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Like it's such a no brainer, and it's like, you know,
the labor government and kind of four years work kind
of in this space. Then you know, the National can
be involved and through that all out the door. And
now National have done their select Committee inquiry and their reports.
You know, if they don't make them through the next selection,
then you know, then it's we're back to square one again.

(08:18):
Like we need an independent body that sits out of government,
you know, that can actually be proactive and not because
it feels like we're just reactive, right everything that's coming
down the line.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, I mean when you look at where people used
to meet in the olden days compared to where they
meet now, it's it's really disturbing.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, and there's some really sad statistics that eighteen to
twenty four year olds and our the loneliest generation in
New Zealand, like, you know, more lonely than elderly people.
I mean, I don't know about you, about eighteen to
twenty four was like it was like some of the
best years of my life. So just to kind of
think that that is actually a period of loneliness for
young people, like we really yeah, we have to get

(09:00):
on top of it.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
And the Okay, so for people who are listening, the
best way to do.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
That the best way to do that. Oh yeah, that's
that's a million dollar question, right. I mean, I think
I think we need a collective and well, I guess
there's an individual level and then there's the collective. You know.
I think on the level, try and delay, you know,
as long as possible. And I completely acknowledge that is

(09:26):
so hard when everybody around you has phones and the
kids have phones. But I think on that, you know,
it is a collective problem, and I think we need
collective solutions. And I think that's where government actually has
a responsibility to, you know, to step in and meet
this challenge.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Lovely to talk, Thank you very much. Nadia Maxwell direct
a producer of Under the Influence, the Herald's new online
video series. The second episode out today, Manosphere versus Boy.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
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