June 28, 2026 • 12 mins
A Kiwi doctor who’s lived in Australia for decades was arrested at Wellington Airport over about $180,000 in unpaid student loan debt.
Police stopped him as he tried to leave the country, his passport’s been seized, and he’s now stuck in New Zealand until it’s sorted.
It’s part of a tougher crackdown, with billions still owed by borrowers living offshore.
IRD Customer Segment Leader Rebecca Baker joins Kerre Woodham to discuss the details of the crackdown, and what will be done about Kiwis who are already abroad.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News Talks.
He'd b we have been discussing the case that is
highlighted and stuff this morning of Vic not his real name,
the doctor who came back to care for his ailing dad.
He was in Australia working as a specialist, stopped at
(00:27):
the border and told OI, you owe one hundred and
eighty k give it back. Spent three days in police
sales's passports being confiscated and now he can't get back
to Australia. He knows he owes it. He ignored the
letters from the IRD, but he was stressed at the time.
No two point three billion dollars owed by people who
(00:53):
took out loans the clues in the name and haven't
paid it back. So it's part of a tougher crackdown
on the part of IRD. Ird's customer segment leader. It's
a funny name, Rebecca Baker joins me. Now, very good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
To you, morning Carrie, customer segment.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
You didn't make the name. Now, when it comes to
the measures that you can apply to defaulters, I think
we're agreed that no more mister and missus nice guy
because we've been asking for the money back for decades
now and they're still not paying it. Those that are
living overseas and those that are an almost permanent default,
(01:40):
why can we not do harder stuff like if they
haven't paid it back, to stop their passport or so
that they cannot travel or go into their bank accounts
because we've got an agreement with Australia about welfare payments.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, I think Carrie, we can do some harder things. Obviously,
not the things that you've mentioned at the moment require
some changes to the current system. But if I think
about some of the measures that we have in some
of the enforcement that we can take overseas, we can
do some of those things. And obviously we've been talking
about the current arrest at the border, which is a
(02:21):
last measure for us. But those are some of the
sort of things that we're doing currently for those that
aren't contacting us, aren't doing anything to engage around paying
off their loans.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So what's the process? Somebody goes overseas for work, they
don't make any arrangements. What happens next?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So the first step is they'll get some reminders or
notice is about the assessment that they have due the payments,
so they have two payment dates a year once they're
an overseas based borrowers, so we'll issue those out to
them via a letter or into their MYR accounts, and
then if they don't make the payments, that's when it
becomes a default. And so again there'll be some system
(03:07):
related letters and things, and then or one of our
team will start contacting them or trying to make contact.
So one of the big challenges we have is contact details,
and obviously the longer overseas, the more out of date
they can become. So we work really hard across not
(03:28):
just within in their revenue, but to get information if
they return back into the country or if they go
to renew their passport or things like that, we get
all of that information and then our team are quite
quick to use those details to get in touch with
the defaulter, make them aware and try and get some
(03:48):
kind of arrangement in place or to get a payment.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Essentially, yeah, well to get the money that the taxpayer
is owed. So you say a letter, why would you
not use social media, which most people would have A
letter can be a bit outloaded.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It can. We do use social media for things like marketing.
So more broadly, we can put on social media when
the payment dates are to make sure people are aware,
but we can't contact them directly about their own accounts,
so we use our online portal. We also pick up
(04:28):
the phone to try and contact them as well, but
we don't directly, you know, WhatsApp or Facebook message.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Why would you not do that because that would be
a really quick way to get their attention.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I guess the challenge for us as privacy so making
sure that it's the right person that we can get
the information to, particularly if we're talking about the level
of default that they're in, and then getting information from
them on their financial position. So we can absolutely use
social media for the broader marketing and awareness piece, but
(05:05):
when we're talk to someone about their situation and what
they can afford, we'd want to be really sure that
we're talking to the right person.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
But Hi, it's Rebecca from Ird. Can you give us
a call that wouldn't reach anybody's part.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, no, you're correct. It's not something that we've explored
as of yet, but we do have those other methods
of trying to get in touch with it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I'm just thinking our letter is not going to reach anybody,
not not the younger ones. That might reach some of
the older ones who are still out there lurking, But
I just thought that would be a really quick way
of doing it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah. I mean, we do use things like email in
the online services portal as well, so that it's not
all traditional snail mail getting to them. But I think
the other part of that is often if they've been
entering the country, they're potentially giving us a physical address
through through customs, So that's one mechanism, but we use
(06:09):
a broad suite of ways to try and contact these defaulters.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Carl sent in a text saying that IID contacted him
saying where's your defaulting daughter and he was very happy
to give all the details he had for her and
said go after the other kids have paid it back.
So I guess you know.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Oh sorry, Yeah, we do. We do try and contact
whoever we think might have the right details for the borrowers,
so it's not just limited to the information that we
have about someone. Obviously, we have to be quite careful
around how much information we give out, so we're typically
just asking if they have a contact number for their
(06:52):
son or daughter or brother or sister so that we
can then get in touch with them.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So IOD has been given a bit more money to
go after defaulters and tax evaders, haven't they as well
well those who are businesses who are trying to avoid
paying the tax that they owe, and from all reports
it's proving a big success.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, that's right. So for student loans overseas based defaults
in particular, we were given some funding back in twenty
twenty four and that's how we've collected over five hundred
and forty four million over the past couple of years.
So that's well ahead of the target that was established.
It also means that we've been able to fund more
(07:39):
people doing the work, but also make great use of
debt collection agencies to try and find the borrowers and
then to contact them as well.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
If you were given an unlimited budget, what would you
do with that budget?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's a really good question. I think we'd probably do
more of what we're currently doing, so I guess the
challenges if it was unlimited, we've still we're still limited
in some ways around trying to find some of these
people and get the right details for them. So where
(08:17):
that's where we always start is can we get in
touch with them, and then what other measures do we have.
We can do some enforcement action overseas, but it can
be quite expensive. So there's all sorts of challenges around
how we how we find borrowers and then what actions
are appropriate depending on you know, are they engaging with us,
(08:42):
are they giving us information and are we in negotiations
or are they just not in contact whatsoever?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, so with fifteen people detained at the border, can
we ramp that up? So because at the moment you
would have you could understand why Vick not his real name,
and his brother Bob, not his real name, thought they
could slide into the country to the ailing dad because
fifteen out of one hundred and thirteen thousand overseas based borrowers, Yeah,
(09:13):
pretty good odds.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Well, ever said, the arrest is the last or you know,
a last resort, So we'd want to be in a
conversation with people ideally and understanding their position. I guess
one of the big things here is that when someone
enters New Zealand and they have a student loan and default,
(09:39):
we get information from customs almost in real time, and
then we're very quick on contacting them, so that often
generates really good conversation and outcomes, so that part's really important.
And then if from there we haven't been able to
(10:00):
engage or reach a resolution, that's where we would then
look to view some of those other for extreme measures.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Do you have any idea how many calls you do
get from customs, because that's an interesting point that you
don't arrest them unless they've refused to engage with you,
but you are getting that information that you can act
on that people scuttle into their bank to bank accounts
to start making payments. It's a really good prompt for them.
(10:27):
How many are doing that?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I don't have those?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Sorry, well that's okay, that's okay. You came on at
the last minute and I really appreciate that. But it
is a good tool. Are you saying in terms of
cheap being able to recover that debt?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, it's a good Do you mean the arrest.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And the arrests and the information at the border?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Oh, the information at the border absolutely. I mean that's
the most up to date information that we get on
someone because they've just reentered New Zealand and that's you know,
where we can understand that they're onshore how to contact them,
and you're making them aware, and we do make a
number of them aware that their travel plans may be
(11:13):
disrupted if they try to leave New Zealand without talking
to us first.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yep. Okay, So what would you advise families of overseas
space borrowers to do?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I would say, encourage your families to get in touch
with us. So, whether that's through them by our accounts
or calling us, the best thing they could do is
get in touch with us, provide us with as much
information as they can, and yeah, I guess be prepared
to enter into some kind of agreement. And whether that's
(11:45):
being able to pay a lump sum or being able
to pay off the default amount that they have, the
best thing they could do is come to us so
that we can make some of those arrangements.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Nice to talk and I really appreciate your time, Rebecca,
Rebecca Baker Ird customer segment leader. Student loans is one
of her major areas of responsibility or from Kerrywood and Mornings.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Listen live to news Talks at b from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News Talks.
He'd b we have been discussing the case that is
highlighted and stuff this morning of Vic not his real name,
the doctor who came back to care for his ailing dad.
He was in Australia working as a specialist, stopped at
(00:27):
the border and told OI, you owe one hundred and
eighty k give it back. Spent three days in police
sales's passports being confiscated and now he can't get back
to Australia. He knows he owes it. He ignored the
letters from the IRD, but he was stressed at the time.
No two point three billion dollars owed by people who
(00:53):
took out loans the clues in the name and haven't
paid it back. So it's part of a tougher crackdown
on the part of IRD. Ird's customer segment leader. It's
a funny name, Rebecca Baker joins me. Now, very good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
To you, morning Carrie, customer segment.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
You didn't make the name. Now, when it comes to
the measures that you can apply to defaulters, I think
we're agreed that no more mister and missus nice guy
because we've been asking for the money back for decades
now and they're still not paying it. Those that are
living overseas and those that are an almost permanent default,
(01:40):
why can we not do harder stuff like if they
haven't paid it back, to stop their passport or so
that they cannot travel or go into their bank accounts
because we've got an agreement with Australia about welfare payments.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, I think Carrie, we can do some harder things. Obviously,
not the things that you've mentioned at the moment require
some changes to the current system. But if I think
about some of the measures that we have in some
of the enforcement that we can take overseas, we can
do some of those things. And obviously we've been talking
about the current arrest at the border, which is a
(02:21):
last measure for us. But those are some of the
sort of things that we're doing currently for those that
aren't contacting us, aren't doing anything to engage around paying
off their loans.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So what's the process? Somebody goes overseas for work, they
don't make any arrangements. What happens next?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So the first step is they'll get some reminders or
notice is about the assessment that they have due the payments,
so they have two payment dates a year once they're
an overseas based borrowers, so we'll issue those out to
them via a letter or into their MYR accounts, and
then if they don't make the payments, that's when it
becomes a default. And so again there'll be some system
(03:07):
related letters and things, and then or one of our
team will start contacting them or trying to make contact.
So one of the big challenges we have is contact details,
and obviously the longer overseas, the more out of date
they can become. So we work really hard across not
(03:28):
just within in their revenue, but to get information if
they return back into the country or if they go
to renew their passport or things like that, we get
all of that information and then our team are quite
quick to use those details to get in touch with
the defaulter, make them aware and try and get some
(03:48):
kind of arrangement in place or to get a payment.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Essentially, yeah, well to get the money that the taxpayer
is owed. So you say a letter, why would you
not use social media, which most people would have A
letter can be a bit outloaded.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It can. We do use social media for things like marketing.
So more broadly, we can put on social media when
the payment dates are to make sure people are aware,
but we can't contact them directly about their own accounts,
so we use our online portal. We also pick up
(04:28):
the phone to try and contact them as well, but
we don't directly, you know, WhatsApp or Facebook message.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Why would you not do that because that would be
a really quick way to get their attention.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I guess the challenge for us as privacy so making
sure that it's the right person that we can get
the information to, particularly if we're talking about the level
of default that they're in, and then getting information from
them on their financial position. So we can absolutely use
social media for the broader marketing and awareness piece, but
(05:05):
when we're talk to someone about their situation and what
they can afford, we'd want to be really sure that
we're talking to the right person.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
But Hi, it's Rebecca from Ird. Can you give us
a call that wouldn't reach anybody's part.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, no, you're correct. It's not something that we've explored
as of yet, but we do have those other methods
of trying to get in touch with it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I'm just thinking our letter is not going to reach anybody,
not not the younger ones. That might reach some of
the older ones who are still out there lurking, But
I just thought that would be a really quick way
of doing it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah. I mean, we do use things like email in
the online services portal as well, so that it's not
all traditional snail mail getting to them. But I think
the other part of that is often if they've been
entering the country, they're potentially giving us a physical address
through through customs, So that's one mechanism, but we use
(06:09):
a broad suite of ways to try and contact these defaulters.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Carl sent in a text saying that IID contacted him
saying where's your defaulting daughter and he was very happy
to give all the details he had for her and
said go after the other kids have paid it back.
So I guess you know.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Oh sorry, Yeah, we do. We do try and contact
whoever we think might have the right details for the borrowers,
so it's not just limited to the information that we
have about someone. Obviously, we have to be quite careful
around how much information we give out, so we're typically
just asking if they have a contact number for their
(06:52):
son or daughter or brother or sister so that we
can then get in touch with them.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So IOD has been given a bit more money to
go after defaulters and tax evaders, haven't they as well
well those who are businesses who are trying to avoid
paying the tax that they owe, and from all reports
it's proving a big success.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, that's right. So for student loans overseas based defaults
in particular, we were given some funding back in twenty
twenty four and that's how we've collected over five hundred
and forty four million over the past couple of years.
So that's well ahead of the target that was established.
It also means that we've been able to fund more
(07:39):
people doing the work, but also make great use of
debt collection agencies to try and find the borrowers and
then to contact them as well.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
If you were given an unlimited budget, what would you
do with that budget?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's a really good question. I think we'd probably do
more of what we're currently doing, so I guess the
challenges if it was unlimited, we've still we're still limited
in some ways around trying to find some of these
people and get the right details for them. So where
(08:17):
that's where we always start is can we get in
touch with them, and then what other measures do we have.
We can do some enforcement action overseas, but it can
be quite expensive. So there's all sorts of challenges around
how we how we find borrowers and then what actions
are appropriate depending on you know, are they engaging with us,
(08:42):
are they giving us information and are we in negotiations
or are they just not in contact whatsoever?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, so with fifteen people detained at the border, can
we ramp that up? So because at the moment you
would have you could understand why Vick not his real name,
and his brother Bob, not his real name, thought they
could slide into the country to the ailing dad because
fifteen out of one hundred and thirteen thousand overseas based borrowers, Yeah,
(09:13):
pretty good odds.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Well, ever said, the arrest is the last or you know,
a last resort, So we'd want to be in a
conversation with people ideally and understanding their position. I guess
one of the big things here is that when someone
enters New Zealand and they have a student loan and default,
(09:39):
we get information from customs almost in real time, and
then we're very quick on contacting them, so that often
generates really good conversation and outcomes, so that part's really important.
And then if from there we haven't been able to
(10:00):
engage or reach a resolution, that's where we would then
look to view some of those other for extreme measures.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Do you have any idea how many calls you do
get from customs, because that's an interesting point that you
don't arrest them unless they've refused to engage with you,
but you are getting that information that you can act
on that people scuttle into their bank to bank accounts
to start making payments. It's a really good prompt for them.
(10:27):
How many are doing that?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I don't have those?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Sorry, well that's okay, that's okay. You came on at
the last minute and I really appreciate that. But it
is a good tool. Are you saying in terms of
cheap being able to recover that debt?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, it's a good Do you mean the arrest.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And the arrests and the information at the border?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Oh, the information at the border absolutely. I mean that's
the most up to date information that we get on
someone because they've just reentered New Zealand and that's you know,
where we can understand that they're onshore how to contact them,
and you're making them aware, and we do make a
number of them aware that their travel plans may be
(11:13):
disrupted if they try to leave New Zealand without talking
to us first.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yep. Okay, So what would you advise families of overseas
space borrowers to do?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I would say, encourage your families to get in touch
with us. So, whether that's through them by our accounts
or calling us, the best thing they could do is
get in touch with us, provide us with as much
information as they can, and yeah, I guess be prepared
to enter into some kind of agreement. And whether that's
(11:45):
being able to pay a lump sum or being able
to pay off the default amount that they have, the
best thing they could do is come to us so
that we can make some of those arrangements.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Nice to talk and I really appreciate your time, Rebecca,
Rebecca Baker Ird customer segment leader. Student loans is one
of her major areas of responsibility or from Kerrywood and Mornings.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Listen live to news Talks at b from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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